The Dating Detectives - Yoga Teachers, Drug Dealers, & Downward Dogfish: Part 2

Episode Date: September 30, 2024

When Nikki found yoga it changed her life. She discovered a spiritual side of herself that she didn't know existed, and she also found a man who she thought was the love of her life. He promised her the world, but she would have to work for it. Years later Nikki woke up in a life she didn't recognize, filled with money, children, 14 hour days, a secret drug dealing side hustle, and no way out. Click here to join our Patreon! For only $5 a month you will get 2 extra episodes a month, monthly virtual live events, and access to our community page! If you've been dogfished and want to share your story on the show, email [e-mail] or contact us through our website using this link This episode of The Dating Detectives is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/tdd today to get 10% off your first month. This episode of The Dating Detectives is sponsored by Prose. Take your FREE in- depth hair consultation and get 50% off your first subscription order by going to prose.com/tdd ***The following Program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following Program is provided for entertainment purposes only and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for support. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following program contains names, places, and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-723 for support. Okay, are you guys ready for this episode? Part two, part two. Happy Monday. Part Dio. Part D'Eau.

Um, Dos. Is that how you say it, Duel? In French. Yeah. Yeah. Is it dual? D. I don't know.

French listeners. What is the movie where it says something and it's like part dual? And I'm like, is that part do? Not duo. Well, anyways, hi. I'm like, Dih lingo. Duolingo. Hi.

Duolingo. Anyway, we are not a French podcast. As you can tell. Very much. I am unolingual. Monoling. Yeah. Anyways.

So you guys remember if you didn't watch the first episode, hold on a minute. The roof guy must be here. We had the hurricane came through and I know. Hold on. There's a hurricane in Florida. If anybody has been affected, we hope you're okay. But yes, part one, go back and listen. If you have not already, what we're picking up on is,

a yoga instructor, guru, who uses that spiritual leadership to manipulate. To pretend and lie. To dogfish. Downward dogfish. And she is... If you didn't listen to the first one, you have to go listen to that one.

Yeah, go back and listen. So we're going to pick up where Nikki is in a relationship with him, has met his children, and is very much involved in all aspects of his life. But he kind of used... We'll talk in the debrief. Stick around for the end when we go through all the details. For the dogfish debrief.

Oh, trigger warnings. Yeah, just some content stuff that's going to come up. Definite spiritual abuse, financial abuse, and some child abuse. And it's, as always, a difficult story. So protect your heart and what you want to hear. Thank you, Hannah. Yeah, let's get into it. They just got busted for one of his illegal schemes.

He's been left off. We've GPS in all the cars a couple days later. This car is taken by federal authorities and searched. Oh, no. All the cannabis was found. 80 pounds. 80. Holy shes, good. Oh, my God.

I'm still six months pregnant. I am looking at this computer screen of the GPS, seeing it in a cop car lot, and I'm like, this is it. I'm going to jail. I'm going to have a baby in jail. Oh my God. My brain, I mean, it was on overload. And by the grace of God, because everything was in fake names and had fake phone numbers, nothing came about. But that was the beginning of the end of the trucking company.

They could never find. They could never find you guys. Oh, no, they found us. But there was, we didn't own the cars. Remember, we're a transport company. We're transporting someone else's car. Oh, so you can lie and say that it wasn't your... Yeah. And let me tell you guys, I was never a good liar. I... It's not who I am.

I'm a heart on my sleeve kind of person. And so he had to teach me how to lie. He had to put the fear of God in me that I had to lie or else the family was going to be doomed. Like it was not my natural instinct. And it was really... I had so much shame about that because it was so important. to me to not be that kind of person. I grew up in a religious context, and so all of everything about it was wrong, but he had taught me how to play roles, show up as a certain person, dress a certain way,

act a certain way to give people a certain idea. Like he had taught me how to navigate being in multiple situations with multiple personalities. And so I learned how to disassociate from myself in a really deep way to fulfill these roles. So I could be his partner and show up in these business meeting so I could be his partner and yell at someone because they didn't do a job right for him. So I could tell his kids like, no, you can't go to that ballgame or you can't do this because you didn't do your chores when that's, you know, deep down, I'm like, you should be a kid. You should go do all these things, right? Like, nobody needs this many chores.

But I'm his, I'm his trusted confident. I'm his trusted partner and I know my role and I'm trying hard to do all the things. So my nervous system is like. Yeah, I imagine. And I'm pregnant. And you're pregnant. No kidding. So you said, I mean, I want to hear more about how you were feeling when you, like, had the scare, though.

Like, obviously the feeling of having a baby in prison. But, like, I was just like, oh, my God. Like, it was shock. It was shock. And you do all these things, but you don't ever really think you're going to get caught. Yeah. You know, like, logically it could happen. But it's not an actual thing in your reality.

And I had never, I've never been to jail. I mean, I have a clean record. This is not anything that's even been a part of my, my consciousness. And so I am just in shock and I'm freaking out. But he's very calm in stressful situations. So I'm leaning on my trust for him. And that will get through it. That probably made you feel more comfortable with it.

Whereas it with that, I mean, if it was just me by myself, I would have been probably freaking out and panicking. But I had him. And he was the leader of the family. So he would keep me safe. He says it's okay. Then it's okay. He would get me out of jail on bail.

I don't know. So. So stresses me the hell out. I know. I'm like, Oh, gotta take a lap. So we get through that.

We close that down. That company's gone. And I have a beautiful, healthy baby girl. Oh, I love it. So we have all this weed, remember? Yeah. Because we were transporting it, but now we're not.

And so before I had the baby, I'm, like, stealing weed to anybody who will buy it. Trying to show up and not look pregnant. Like, I'm talking, like, high schoolers. I'm talking, like... Oh, my gosh. Were you ever, like, I'm pregnant? Like, I can't do this bullshit. Like, this is stupid.

Again, I had to do it because I was the only one. We can't ask the kids to do it. He can't do it because he's the one that's supposed to bail me out and he's got all the assets in his name. And you didn't want to leave him because he's your boo. Like that's your man. This isn't stuff I wanted to do. But this, again, this is so low level. Like, if this will make you happy, whatever. I didn't like it. But it didn't feel, what we had done before felt so much more unsafe than this in comparison. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So my contrast, I'm like, whatever. So I have this beautiful baby. I have to take the work phone with me to the hospital in case someone needs their weed. Oh. And I'm like, why?

I'm having a baby right now, but it's like, that's what we have to do because that's the kind of family weird. That's insane. So I have my work phone with me. I have the baby so blessed. She's born healthy. I mean, it truly the most magical moment of my life was that moment. The best moment. I love it.

And I'm a first-time mom. This one is, you know, with other girls, I felt like I was a leader and I wanted to be someone they looked up to as a woman. but this is like my actual child. Sure. It shifts something in you when you become a mom. And it's crazy. You leave the hospital. You're like, you're really letting me leave with this baby.

You know I've never done this before. I have no idea what I'm doing. Like, this shouldn't be legal. Shouldn't you give me a handbook or something? It was crazy. But I leaned on my partner because he had five children and he knew how to be a dad. So I trusted his guidance. Captain von Trup.

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weeks off and rest and you didn't give you like maternity leave. No, no, God no. And I had to quit all my jobs now because now I have a baby. And he said, you know what, that's fine, just work for me. I'll take care of you. So now I have no income, zero. Nothing. That's my own. I am under his total umbrella. And this is where the shift starts happening. Because now it's been long enough. I've been loyal. I've proven my loyalty. Like now it's, it's really starting to get like integrated. I have his baby and he tells me on New Year's Eve, all right, we just had our first Christmas with the baby and all these things.

New Year's Eve, like I want you to open up a cannabis delivery service. Oh, here we go. Oh, bless Jesus. Okay. And I say, no, I am not doing that. I don't want to do that. I have a baby, a newborn. I am tired in my mind.

in my body, everything about it is hell no. I don't want to do that. Like, after this whole year we've had, now I have this child that I have to look after. Like, how am I going to have the time or the headspace or energy to do that? And second about, I have a baby. Like, I can't be doing that. I can't show up and deliver weed with a baby. Yeah. Come on. Yeah. Come on. Jesus Lord. Can we get in a big fight? And he leaves with the whole family, leaves me and the baby at home. Oh, my God. Because it was New Year's Eve. We always have this tradition of going, and doing this thing on New Year's Eve with the whole family. But he leaves me at home.

He's like, nope, you're not coming. And so I spent my first New Year's with my daughter alone. I gave her a kiss at midnight. Aw. He had told me that if I didn't open this delivery service, then I'd have to leave. And he's keeping the baby. Keeping the baby. You got me fucked up.

You ain't keeping my. No, no, you're not. That must have felt like horrible. Well, Mackenzie, your response is the appropriate response. But for me, I'm like, I have no money. I have nowhere to live. I get it. What do you do?

I'm separated from my friends. I have nobody except for this family now. You're isolated. Completely. And if he kicks me out, what am I going to do? Where am I going to take this baby? You can't even go to your dad's spare room. I can't because there's cannabis in it.

Because it's a weed garden now. Yeah. So I'm like, great. Like, I'm devastated because it's all on him. It's whatever he does. sides. So he comes back, doesn't talk to me. He started to do this a lot. When he'd get mad of me, he would just stop talking to me for days or weeks. Stonewalling? Don't they call that stone walling? The next day, he sits me down. His tone is soft. He's like, look, I need you. I need

you to do this. I need you to do this for the family. We need you to do this. We can't afford this lifestyle without it. We have all these things going. Like, I love you. We'll do it together. So I say fine. I don't like it, but I mean, you get, he's with honey, right? So he laid on the honey. I'd had a day to think about my life falling apart and being without my newborn, who I loved with every fiber of my being and my world falling apart. And so now he's rescuing me from all this anxiety of my world falling apart and being nice about it. So it's easier to say yes, even though I didn't want to. So I did that. I opened up a cannabis delivery service. And I ran that thing seven days a week. It was open 12 to 13 hours a day. I was answering every phone call morning to night. I was packing bags. I was hiring drivers. I was doing it.

And I was also doing all the other things, cooking all the meals, taking care of the newborn, like answering calls while I'm breastfeeding. Still trying to get the kids to school. Still trying to make sure the rentals are managed. Still trying to like take my daughter to the park maybe with my three phone call, three phones in my pocket answering calls. Like, it was awful. And all the while, he would threaten to kick me out now every three to six months.

There'd be a viable threat of kicking me out. He wants you to know that that's still something that could potentially happen. Like, he wants you scared so that you don't leave. Yeah. And he's probably so nice otherwise. Like the whiplash. I mean, when he was like, he and I, you could classify us as a power couple. And we put our minds to it, we could do anything together.

We worked so well together. And when it was great, it was great. I mean, it was the best intimacy it ever happened. It was so connected. And that makes sense because he's so in tune with me because he's controlling me at this point. But he knows how to turn me on and off. And he knows how to mold me and influence me. And so it was either really, really great.

And he would give me like these beautiful gifts or it was just awful. And you just tried not to provoke the bear. And I was in a fawn response most of the time. He gets mad. I'm trying to calm him down, relax him, so he doesn't get mad at the kids or he doesn't get mad at me. I'm trying to keep the peace. I'm trying to navigate all of the things. And he's telling me this is temporary.

This is just so we can get through this period. It's not going to be like this forever. I just need you to do your time. Like I did my time before I met you, you know, whatever. So I'm doing all this and I'm exhausted. And I'm getting resentful because he'll go to bed and I'm out delivering weed to a bad neighborhood at night. And I'm like, who knows if I get kidnapped? Like who's who's checking in to make sure I get home? Nobody.

Like it's starting to feel awful. And when I say I'm working all day, I would literally wake up and he's telling me all the things I need to do. He's in the shower yelling at me, oh, make sure you get this done too. I had to have like a notepad with me all the time. At the end of the day, it's what did you get done? Was he like that with his kids too? Like, was he just like always like this or is it just you? He expected a lot out of his children.

They had chores. they were supposed to help me. And I carried that guilt because it was a hard, it was a dichotomy because I needed their help so desperately. I couldn't do it by myself. And I also didn't want to make them help me either. I'm battling. If I make him mad, he's going to get mad at everybody and take it out on everybody.

And to not make him mad, all this stuff has to get done. But to get this stuff done, I can't always do it by myself. And sometimes I'm tired. Most of the time I'm tired. Of course. You're doing everything 100 days a week. So I'm just running. I'm running.

I'm exhausted. I don't have time to think. I just go. I'm going. Talk about hyperproductive. Like, it's crazy the amount of stuff I would get done in a day. I was a machine. And so this is going on and on.

It's wildly successful. He makes in the first year, 600,000. Oh, that's good. Like, should we do this? No, just kidding. They can come fill up and makeup. And while this is happening,

I can't even buy a cup of coffee without permission. I am so financially controlled. If I act out, he will refuse to pay my credit card because I'm still paying for the groceries, right? Because that was our agreement in the beginning. But now I have to tell him how much I spent on groceries for the month and he writes me a check at the end of the month from his company.

So it looks like I'm making an income, but I'm not. I'm just getting a check from him to cover whatever he made me by. And if I act out, then he's like, well, I'm not going to give you a check. And I'm like, how do you expect me to pay my bill? And he's like, you can figure it out. I'm like, I can't figure it out. Like, you want me to go get a job while I'm trying to do a thousand things? Yeah.

Oh, God. So that's where the financial abuse started to get really impactful. And I'm just juggling 50 gazillion hats. I'm not a stepmom because we weren't married, but I'm acting in a role as a stepmom. I am a mother. I am a partner. I am marketing. I'm HR.

I am running the rentals. I am running the household. I am personal assistant. And then I'm also managing these cannabis farms. And then I'm also running this delivery service. And so... And you're not making a penny. I'm not making a penny.

So I had no time to think. Like there was no time to do anything for myself. I could barely get through the day. And it got to the point where I needed help. I needed someone to help me in the house do all this stuff because it was way more than I could manage. And we hired a friend of ours. So she comes into work for us and eventually she and I get close because she's like my right hand now. And I'm so fucking great.

for her because she is making my life easier. And it was amazing because I could, I mean, even as simple as like, can you watch my daughter for a second when I take this phone call? So I'm not juggling that at the same time. You know, she could drive for me. She could pick up the kids from school for me. She could, you know, help me with these things. And so it bonded us because I was so grateful. and things were ramping up. So I wasn't less busy. I just had more help to keep going and to try to manage this lifestyle that was really unmanageable. Like my to-do list was never done.

And every day it was what did you get done today? And it would usually be a fight because not enough stuff was done. I needed to work harder. I needed to do more. I needed to figure it out. And so if I wanted the reward of affection and connection from my partner, I had to do more to get it. And it was this, it felt like this game I could not win. And then the few times I would, it was like winning the lottery.

Oh my gosh. I'm sure it didn't last very long. No, it didn't. It was great job. Now, here's another job for you. Or like, oh, you're so good at this. You're so good at this. That fuels you for a while.

It does. When you're starving, that breadcrumb tastes so good. And I'm still working as hard, but I'm not drowning like I am the fork to have her help. And she sees the way he treats me. She sees how he yells at me. She sees how he demands things. And one day, I remember this clearly. I'm sitting at the computer, the light shining in through the window to my left.

She's sitting behind me and she's working on something. And she's like, Nikki, do you know what a narcissist is? And I look at her and I'm like, no. And so what do I do? I go ask Dr. Google, what's a narcissist? Of course. And I start reading and I'm like, holy fuck, Johnny's a narcissist. Like, this is spot on.

And so that's when I started reading articles about narcissism and listening to YouTube videos. And when she highlighted what I was going through and made it real for me and brought up the concept of narcissism. I mean, that was pivotal. That changed my life because that opened that cognitive door. And once you open that door and start seeing it, you can't unsee it. Because you can convince yourself it's not there. But once you start to see the signs, you can't, you can't stop seeing them. And they start to be everywhere because now you're, you're honed in on it. And I needed that. I needed to remember. I think that paved the way for me to start to see that this didn't used to be my life. Yeah. Did it, was it immediate? How long did it take for you to hear that from that

point to getting out? A while, because I had no time to, like, like getting out wasn't a possibility. Because how can I even have any time? I had no time as it was. How was I supposed to even pack a bag? How was I supposed to find a place to live? How was supposed to figure out how to get my daughter out? And again, remember, this gray area business was in my name. So if it went down, I'd, was going down. I needed to have Johnny on my good side so that he would make sure to pay the attorney if it went down. Oh, and you know it'd pull that away the minute you do anything he doesn't like. He would threaten me with it. And, you know, when I signed up for this, I didn't want to do it. And it was under this big, beautiful, long, intimate conversation of I will protect you.

This is for the family. Like, we're together forever. This wasn't something I did and thought that would be held over my head and used to control me later. But I was, you know, but I was, when I realized I'm in this and I'm in this deep and I can't get out and I don't know what to do. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Okay, you guys, have you ever seen my social media where I'm doing my makeup and I'm talking about how I would hide behind a mask of makeup because I didn't like who I was or what I looked like? I want to talk to you about BetterHelp because I hid behind a mask because of so many different reasons, but BetterHelp helped me to find out why. So even though October is a season for wearing masks and costumes for Halloween, but that doesn't

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illegal either. There was a defense. Now, the laws change. And so now all of a sudden we're like, oh, we have to close this down because now it's actually really risk. ski. So we close it down. Suddenly we're worried about closing it down because it's illegal. Yeah, because the law has changed. Like, again, we're, we weren't, the reason I was able to be convinced of something like this and the reason why we did it is because there was a defense. It wasn't entirely illegal to operate a delivery service out of the home it was, but it wasn't illegal to operate a delivery service. There was like rules about collectives and stuff like that. The law has changed. And so now we have to shut it down because now we are,

officially doing something completely illegal. Gotcha. And this is like publicized. Like this is on a, like, when you run a business like this, you're on some, have you heard of weed maps? Uh-uh. So it's like a, it's like the Yelp for weed. Oh.

So you'd go on there and be like, I'm looking for new cartridges or I want joints or, you know. Yes. I want the quickest delivery I can get today. Like, you know. So we had to shut it down because it would be too easy to find us now. And the laws have changed. So when the delivery service ended, she stopped working for us because that was, we obviously didn't have work for her. And so I never saw her much after that. And that was kind of like losing a lifeline. So we shift gears. We start trying to figure out how to run a legal retail storefront, looking for properties to lease. We study the laws. We start. developing like a business course for people who want to get in the cannabis industry, we switch gears. We're still the power couple. We're still making things happen. We're shaking and grooving. But I am not

working 13 hours a day anymore. And I asked him, I said, how do you feel about me teaching yoga again? At this point, it's been, I haven't taught for like three years. Yeah. And I'm like, we could get a free membership of this yoga studio. And he's like, oh, I want a free membership to this yoga studio. So yes, you can teach a class there. He can afford to buy a yoga studio, but it's fine. Yeah, no, I know. But that was, I mean, you knew you had to give him something, what's in it for him? You had to angle it that way.

Yeah. So, well, the reason being is if I'm going to sacrifice the family by taking time away, it needs to be giving back to the family somehow. Yeah. So I couldn't go to like birthday parties or weddings or anything like that because I'm taking time away from the family. And it's not fair. The family's working and I'm not. Wow. That's incredible.

Oh, my God. I couldn't imagine that, Nikki. I went to like two funerals the whole time. That's it. Everything else I had to say no to. People stopped inviting me. They're like, I don't know what's happening with Nikki, but she's in her own world. Yeah, that's it.

Did your family or friends? Did anybody say anything or point anything out that they felt like they were concerned about? Or they just kind of were like, oh, she's like with this guy. It's fine. No, because if you remember from the beginning, I was slowly isolated. Yeah. And then I had a baby. And I think people expect when you have a baby, you kind of disappear.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, like I had a birthday party for her when she turned to and, you know, people came to that. Like, they saw me, but from a big distance. Mm-hmm. I think they just figured I was busy. Yeah. So, and, you know, I couldn't tell anybody about what was going on. So I had to be super secretive. And so I didn't want people really close to me. I didn't want them asking questions because I didn't want to lie. Yeah. So it was a lot easier just to keep everybody away. And more isolation. Mm-hmm. So then what? So did you do the thing with the... We were trying to figure out this retail business. We spent a lot of time on it, but it eventually fell through. And I was grateful because I didn't want to run another service like this. But I was willing to because I had to, right?

So I was like, oh, thank you. It didn't work out in my brain. So I start teaching yoga, just one class a week. And we're still doing our thing. But he's getting frustrated with me because I used to work these 13-hour days for him. And now I'm barely working in his eyes. And I need to be doing more. And I'm not doing enough.

The house isn't clean enough. Like, I'm just not doing enough. And I'm frustrated back because I'm like, you said this was a temporary thing, like not the rest of our lives. So there's some tension happening. But again, I'm still trying to keep the peace all the time for everybody. And my daughter's three at this point. Love her. Oh, my God, I love her so much.

So he was never really violent. Most of the things that he did were emotional and coercive. And I was never afraid of him, like, kicking me or punching me. or anything like that. His temper was wild. Like he'd get mad and yell and not talk to you for weeks and he'd say some awful things. But I wasn't worried about him, you know, abusing me. But he would do things though that were stupid. Like one time I was in the back of his car. He wouldn't let me sit in the front seat. And I was trying to crawl to the front seat. Yeah. He's just, he had this sense of humor and that if I, but everything was joking, but he was very sarcastic and dry and would be very

mischievous and it seemed playful, but it always went too far. But it was always under the guys that, well, it's just a joke. It's just a joke. You're taking it too seriously. So I'm in the backseat because he doesn't want me to sit in the front seat. And I'm like, no, I'm going to sit in the front seat. So I start trying to crawl into the front seat. He slams on the brakes. And I fly across the car.

I hit my head in the dashboard. And I just feel these fat drop tears falling from my face. And I'm like, ow, right? and then I look down and I realize these aren't fat drop tears. These are fat drops of blood. Oh, my goodness. And I'm covering my eye. Blood is dripping down my arm.

We drive back to the house. He's angry at me. Of course he is, because how dare you? And I'm like, I know it's not your, I'm fawning. I'm like, I know it's not your fault. I just need to clean up my eye. The kids are there. I'm trying not to let my daughter see.

I've got blood down my arm. Oh. So it was stuff like that. Like he'd ever like, he didn't like punch me because he was mad, but he'd like give me a dead arm because he thought it was funny. Oh, no. That's not nice. No, I would cry.

I mean, I think it's, yeah, it's. I didn't think it was funny. So this day, I was leaving to teach yoga and I went to give him a kiss goodbye. And he was looking down on his phone. He was like scrolling through Instagram or something. And there was this chick that had like really, this really voluptuous woman that he was looking at. And I went to put my hands up towards his face to give him a kiss. But I looked down at what he was looking at on his phone.

because I'm interested. What is my man looking at? And he says I poked him in the eye. And I don't remember this, you guys. Like, I didn't feel an eyeball. I didn't feel wetness. But that's what he says happened. And I'm like, I'm so sorry. That's not what I meant to do. I've got to go. I'm leaving Teach Yoga. I'm just giving you a kiss goodbye. It was an accident, you know, and I turn around and walk away. And he comes up behind me and he shoves me super hard and says, oh, sorry. That was an accident. And I saw.

Oh, my gosh. drive to teach yoga. My back hurts. I'm sobbing the whole way there. I walk in and this woman bless her heart. I have told her since this day that she changed my life that day, but this woman comes in. Sweetest pie. And she's like, Nikki, you have just the biggest heart. You have such a light inside of you. I just think you're so amazing. And something clicked inside me. And I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? What am I doing? Yes. I'm like, because when I'm with him, I feel like I'm never good enough to for anything. I'm always failing at everything. I can't cook right. I can't take care of the kids right. I can't take care of the baby right. I can't do the businesses right.

And I'm trying as hard as I can every day. And once in a while, he'd be like, oh, you did a great job today. And I'd get this puff in my ego. But most days, it was you suck. You need to try harder. And she comes to me and she just doesn't know anything about me. And she just loves me for showing up and being who I am without anything else. And I'm like, what am I doing? And that's the day I decided to leave. Wow, really? I start Snapchatting a friend that lives in Texas about what's going on because she can't tell him, she doesn't know anybody and I tell her what's going on. And this is something I recommend to people that are afraid to talk about their stories. Find someone that you feel safe talking to that is not related to anybody in your life

because you're not going to see them the next day and feel guilty that you shared your secrets. They're not going to see your partner and feel guilty and you're not going to feel guilty that they're judging them. There's someone that's so detached, they're just for you. And it was Snapchat. So if he went through my phone, he wouldn't find it because Snapchat deletes the messages. Right. And so when I shared with her, then I realized how awful my story was. Because when you say it out loud, you're like, dang.

Yep, saying it out loud changes it, doesn't it? Yeah, but in your head, I mean, it's just so different. People weren't going to understand us. You know, we have a powerful connection. It's really passionate. You know, sometimes it gets a little crazy, but it loves crazy. You know, you have all these things in your head. I'm special.

this is unique. Anyways. So I start planning. At this time, we're not growing at my dad's house anymore, right? Because all that's shut down. So I start borrowing money from family to redo my dad's floor, pull out his carpets, like clean up so I can move in. And my ex finds out. We're still together, but he finds out that I'm planning on leaving. This guy finds out, yeah. He sits me down with the family. And he cries. I'm so sorry. Nikki, you're right. I haven't treated you right. And the kids are looking at him like mouths hanging open. Like, no way is dad saying this right now. And he's like, no. He's like, no, you guys, she's right. I have not been treating her right. And I'm going to change. Because he's losing his freaking cash cow. His, I mean, and I had never seen him cry before ever. And I'd known this man for five. He did not cry. Shut up. He was crying. Tears were falling down his face. What? And you have to remember, like, I love this man.

Yeah. And he has his own story, which isn't mine to share, but he's been through his own stuff in his life. That's tragic and awful that no one should go through. And so I have deep compassion and empathy for him. I know he's this way for a reason. Yeah. Which is why I've been able to forgive so much of it. So I think, you know what?

We have a kid. I love this family. I love these kids. If he's willing to change, I would regret if I walked away. I'm going to give it a shot. And he helps me redo my dad's house. He comes over and is painting the walls. He's like, I'm going to show you.

I'm going to pay for everything that you have scheduled. I'm going to help you redo it. And if you still want to go at the end, then you can go. And you have my blessing. What? I don't buy it. I don't like it. Also, you don't need his blessing, but go off.

Right. I'm like so. Go off. Sure. Okay. Sure. What you're going to keep me captive? Let's go.

Kind of is. He does change. He's kind. He's taking me on dates again. He's super nice to the kids. He doesn't expect me to work 13-hour days. I mean, he just does a 180. And it feels like the beginning again.

Remember those first crazy few months that were amazing? Yeah. And we've been through so much at this point. And I'm just like, you know, you talk to people that have been in long-term marriages. They always say, oh, we've had some rough times. And you never know what their story is. I felt like, wow, we're this, we're the real deal. Like, we can get through the rough times and we can go through and transition and change and get through it.

Like, this is amazing. I have something now that I call the four-month rule. And usually within four months, someone who has any kind of personality disorder will show their true colors. So, okay. Three months later, we take in, like, an anniversary trip, and we've gone out, and it's amazing. So three months later, we are getting ready for my daughter. daughter's birthday party. She's turning four. And she has a preteen sister. I love her sister dearly. To this day, I will never stop living. I have pictures of her in my daughter in my room. I love

her. She is a normal preteen, and she's got some attitude. And I am like asking him for some support because I'm trying to run around, get ready for this party in the park, and get the baby ready. And he goes upstairs to talk to her sister. She'll deal with it. And then he comes down the stairs and he's like, she hit me. And I'm like, what? And then two of his daughters are still living at the house this point. They both come down and they're like, dad hit her.

And I'm like, what? And they tell me what happened. And their story was, and I didn't witness this, but what they told me was that he picked her up by her throat. He dropped her on the floor and punched her in the stomach. And I'm like, fuck this, I'm out. No way in hell. Am I going to parent with a man who does this ever?

Like that is, he could do whatever he wants to me, but you don't fuck with the kids. Like that, I was like, I'm going to show them that this is not okay. They need to know that I will not stand for this. I need to show them how much I love them and how much I support them by refusing to accept this. because I'm already like, I already had decided to leave once already. So I can fall back into that neuropath. And I've gotten the confidence to do that.

So he kicks out that daughter. I help her pack to live at her mom's. And a couple days later, he kicks out the other daughter. So just me, him, and our daughter now in the house. And we haven't slept in the same bed. We haven't spoken. He sits me down to the table. He's done this to me by now.

least 30 times. You need to move out, he says. Oh my God. And every time he had said that before, I'm like begging him crying. No, I don't want to leave. Like, I believe in us. We can get through this. Like, think about, you know, I've always fond. And this is the first time I said, okay, I'll leave. And then the next day, he's like, well, maybe you shouldn't leave. And I'm like, no, no, no, it's okay. I'll go. And so we make a plan for me to leave. So we had decided that I was going to move out on a certain date. And he says to me, okay, before you go, I need you to clean the whole house, detail it, and I need you to teach me how to cook all the meals. And I'm like, okay. Well, the fact of Google it, go away. Yeah, get, get hello fresh with our code. Like, knowing,

knowing his temper, I'm trying to make this as easy as possible. I get it. But also, I throw a frying pan on his fucking head, but it's fine. So I am cleaning each room detailed, and I'm also going through reach room and like, okay, this is mine, this is mine, and putting it in a side room because he has to look at all the stuff I take before it leaves the house to make sure I'm not taking his stuff. So I'm teaching him how to cook. And one day I'm over at my dad's house cleaning and I have the baby with me. And I had made an appointment to go to this organization that supports women leaving a violent environment. And so I was at this nonprofit in their waiting room. And I'm setting up at the same time. Because remember, I am hyperproductive still. I'm,

I can do a thousand things at once. So while I'm sitting in this office with my girl, I'm also coordinating things on my phone and arranging things and making phone calls. So I'm talking to this piano moving company because my piano that I learned to play as a little girl next to my grandma, who would sit with me and make me practice. The same piano she grew up with and watched her brother's practice and play was at his home. We had taken it. We had worked together on it, refurbished it.

We had put a lot of work into this piano. This is not an expensive piano. It's worth on the street maybe a hundred bucks. But it was my family's piano. It was really important to me. And I'm calling piano movers to move it safely out of the house. And I text him and I'm like, hey, I am going to have the piano moved on Monday. And he's like, no, you're not.

And he says, I would rather cut off the legs of that piano and pour battery acid on it than let you have it. And I'm like, oh. And that's what he said. You're not coming in this house ever again. Oh my God. And I'm sitting at this nonprofit for women escaping a violent environment. All this is happening.

This is ironic. Yeah, I feel like you can just show the text and be like, this is what I'm dealing with. And I know this language sounds surprising, but this is when he was mad, this is the way he would speak. So I try to go home. I call the local authorities and I'm like,

hey, can he really not let me come home? And they're like, no, he can't. You know, but he'd have a problem call. when you get there. I get there. And he's like, you're not coming in. And I'm like, I'm coming in. So I get out. And I start walking towards the house. And he shoves me. This is the second time he's ever shoved me. He grabs my keys and he throws them. And so now my key, my car keys are somewhere thrown. They have my house keys on it too. And he goes to get the baby out of the car. I was going to say, where's your daughter? So he shoved me in front of her. He gets the baby out of the car. And I call the cops.

And the cops come. And they're like, well, he doesn't want you here. He tells the cops, I don't even live there. He's like, this is the mother of my child, but she only comes over every once in a while. What? Oh, of course he's full of shit. She shoved me first. It was crazy.

And there was like three cops there. Two believed me. One believed him. And there was a woman cop there. And I'm so grateful for her. And she said things to me, like, because I'm still, I'm still very afraid of this man. I'm still very afraid of his temper. I'm still very controlled by him.

Like, I haven't had time to get a sense of self yet. Because when we were together, he told me what to wear, what to make for food. We were now vegan at this point because that's what he wanted. Like, it's just, he controlled every aspect of my life. And so I don't know how to make these decisions for myself anymore. And I'm still terrified of him. And she's like, do you want to file a restraining order? Do you want to file domestic violence report?

I'm like, no, no, no, no. He's going to get mad. No. You know, and she says to me, and this was so pivotal, and I wish I would have held on to this and really hurt it at the time. But she's like, it seems like no matter what you do, he's going to be mad. So why don't you do what's best for you? And that is something that is such a solid piece of advice. It's so true.

He's going to be mad anyways. You might as well do it and save yourself. I still believed that I could somehow influence whether he got mad or not. I hadn't realized at that point that no matter what happens, he will be mad because that is who he is. And it doesn't matter if I'm doing great or I'm not. He's still going to be mad. But in that moment, I'm like, I'm about to leave my child with this man for the first time alone. Yeah. So I can't take her with me because I don't even have a place to live. I'm just leaving. And my dad's house isn't ready yet. And I'm escorted by police officers to fill up garbage bags full of my clothes.

and I, thank God I grabbed, like, my passport and all the things, because he used to have them locked up in the safe. I was lucky I was able to get access to them because I didn't have the safe code. And so I was able to get some things out. And then they said, okay, tomorrow, you can come pick up your daughter. I'm like, okay. So the next day, he packs up the rest of my stuff. The stuff he's allowing me to have back because he still kept my daughters. Like the clothes she came home from the hospital.

I had a box of all these. mementos from when she was born. He kept that. He let me have that back. He kept my baby blanket that I had there. Anything just to torment you? Yes. He took the, he took the light bulb out of my salt lamp because it was his light bulb. This, what a dumbass. I can't with this fellow. It's like he, he lost control and now he's just grabbing any piece of control. Yeah. So what happened when y'all broke up, then that was it? Like, how does it going now with like the baby day? We agree to this really stupid custody schedule. It was like five hours here and seven hours there.

And it was like 50-50-ish, but it really wasn't. He tried to get me to agree that I would take her during the day and he'd have her every night. And I was like, no, no, we're not doing that. Which I'm glad I had the foresight to realize that was a bad idea. But I start applying at every single yoga studio for work. I'm like, I need to work. This needs to happen. And none of them hire me except for the one he,

works at. What? So what happened? So I start working there. And I'm, I've got my other, I had two other yoga jobs at this point because he wanted free memberships to multiple studios. And I'm walking to teach yoga one day and this guy's like, is your name Nikki, blah, blah, blah, you know? And I'm like scared because this weird man is coming at me in my car in a parking lot. He knows my name. It's terrifying. But he was serving me papers. because my ex was filing for full custody of my child. And that was like the worst moment ever. And I had to go walk in and teach a yoga class.

Oh, my God. So then, three months later, the whole fucking world shuts down because COVID happens. So what do you do? Is your daughter with you? Like, what do you do? So we have a 50-50 custody schedule. It's like I said, it's really, it's like one day, one day, one day, two days, two days. It's like this really bizarre custody schedule that no one can figure out. And we're in court because he wants full custody. We end up getting 50-50 because that's what happens, right? I was smart enough to find a high conflict attorney that is good with narcissists. And she understood what I was dealing with and who this person was. I borrowed money again. I was lucky. a relative had taken a reverse mortgage out. So I was basically...

Good. Yeah, she was helping me out a lot. Bless her. Yeah, I was really grateful for that because not everybody gets that opportunity. And having an attorney in a case like this is so important. Otherwise, you get bulldozed. So I had to pay all that money back, but I was grateful for the loan. And I kept going, and we have 50-50 custody, but, like, when I taught at the yoga

studio, we taught it, like, I'd come out in my car would be keyed. Or, like, there would be a nail. in my tire. I mean, just stuff like that kept happening. And all of the kids, this was, this was one of the hardest parts of our breakup. All of the kids stopped talking to me. Been there. Been there. It is not fun. Because you don't, you divorce the guy. You don't divorce the kids, you know. And so to be away from the kids after all those years with them, that must have been so hard for you. That's a different kind of relationship. It was and it still is. And it was. It was. so hard because I wanted to show them how much I loved them by leaving. And by doing that,

I lost them. And I understand it because I'm older now and I understand psychology better. And I understand that they need, first of all, their biological parent you're just bonded to always. It doesn't matter. You're going to have this deep bond to them. I feel we all have a trauma bond with him and we've all been amassed with him at a point. So there's that happening psychologically. And I also know that it, when I was with him, I was his right hand. So any pain they felt from him is associated with me. So I don't think, while I felt this protection instinct and this big sister energy, you know, like, I don't think for them, it was reciprocal.

I think I was an extension of dynamics and circumstances, which they didn't like and didn't want and didn't have a choice in. And so it's hard because I do love them and I miss them. And I think they're all exceptional. And I've wanted to sit down and apologize to them. And I haven't had that opportunity. And I also understand why they wouldn't want to do that. It's a lot easier for them in their lives to blacklist me because they still have someone in their life that needs them to side with them over me.

And so it's, it is what it is. You're so mature. Thank you. When he and I broke up, I went back to college because I left college when I met him. And I just got an associate's degree. I'm working on my bachelor's. Good for you. In a couple weeks.

Yeah. So I've done a lot of research. And I think one of the things I'd like to say to anybody who's in a situation like this is knowledge is power. Do your research. The more you learn, the more you understand, the more you can get out of your emotional side of your brain. and in your logical side of your brain. And listening to podcasts like this is so helpful because it's validating. There are so many...

I know. There's so many details that I blocked out because that's how trauma doesn't get stored in the brain properly. And I was in constant trauma every day. Yep. And I'll hear someone say something in one of these stories. And I'm like, oh my God, that happened to me too. I forgot.

Now I remember. I have a chance to like... And it's not a big event. It's long and slow like yours. Mm-hmm. And so I don't know. know if any of them will hear this, but I hope if they do, they hear how much I love them and how much I still root for them and pray for them. And I'm so grateful I got to know them.

And I'm sorry for any of the things that I did when I just didn't know any better and was in survival mode. And I know I can't make it up, but I wish nothing but the best for them. And I'm so grateful that my daughter has such amazing sisters. Oh. I'm so sorry that that pain is still there and I I know that pain and it's awful and I'm so sorry and I'm so glad and I hope they hear. I hope they hear this. Yeah. I'm curious like your relationship with your daughter, obviously he's still in her life. How are you now and what's going on now? So my daughter is affected by the dynamic by her parents. We said Burd when she was young and we've, been high conflict. And what high conflict mean is we don't get along. And to make matters worse, we've had periods where we've tried to get along and then it's fallen apart. And that's almost harder for kids. Almost harder. Yeah. So, because we've gone to co-parent counseling several times and, you know, I want things to work, but they, they don't and they haven't yet. The stress of that has, for kids,

they see things black and white and things are good or bad. There's no, like, gray area when they're young. And that's the way they understand the world. And they don't. believe their parents to be bad. So no matter what, both parents are good. But she has been put in a position where she has to pick a bad parent and a good parent. And one parent is a lot easier to pick as the bad parent because they're not as temperamental as the other. So I have been chosen sometimes as the bad parent to her. And so she's in therapy and that's helped a lot. We are extremely close. I have no doubt in the bond I have with her. And it's so deep and it's so beautiful.

And she has her outbursts with me because she's got a lot of anger towards me that I am not in her dad's house. I'm not going to say it's fed to her because I'm not witnessing that. But there are things that she knows she shouldn't know. There are words she's saying that are adult words and there are stories she's hearing

that are not healthy stories to tell children about their parents. And so we are navigating the best we can. I'm so grateful that she's got such great support at school and with her counselors. So hard. Bless that baby. Yeah. But again, she and I are really close. Like she,

I know she's going to see this all when she's an adult from adult eyes. And I keep that in mind with every interaction I have with her and with everything we go through. And so I do my best to navigate. I've got my own therapist. I have great friends that have. been through therapy and similar situations with men. And so I seek advice often and I take it seriously. I take my role as mom seriously, especially not having a mom. I know that I have a chance to make a difference in my own understanding of a mother-daughter dynamic. And so I take it very seriously.

I research everything. It's why I'm studying psychology so I can be the best mom possible and be the best support for her and understand the dynamics she's in and what I went through. And so we'll be okay. I believe we'll be okay. Again, it's been hard for her, but it's getting easier every year. She is so self-aware. She's so passionate and bright and smart. I mean, she's like her sisters in that way.

And I just can't wait to see the woman she becomes because she's going to be really adaptable and able to handle. Because she got a good mama. Thank you. Give yourself some credit. And you're making the best of the situation, which she'll learn. I think, I mean, I'm just so. sorry because you did suffer abuse from him and that's really complicated to know that the father of your child is like how do you communicate that with them do you and when do you and I just know that

I don't think there's a if you say it to them then you're talking shit about him they have to see it for themselves yeah you you have to let it lie I can't I truly can't imagine yeah and I think one of the hardest things now is I have to watch this man parade around like a spiritual ubrew He is leading people on spiritual paths. He is telling them that he's a sage and he can help them. Oh, well, you know the truth. Well, I know the truth. And I wanted to come on here and share about this because I think it's so important for people to understand spiritual manipulation and coercive control through spirituality.

Unfortunately, it's a lot more prevalent than people realize. And it's in, we understand. that it's in religious settings. Like that's well known. It's been on your podcast before. I want people to be aware it's in other healing modalities too. There are toxic people out there that will use your vulnerability to pray on you. And cults happen for a reason.

I was funny when you guys said, oh, he's a cult leader because there's a lot about him that could be understood like that. There's a lot of diehard followers of him. And I cannot go to them and say, hey, this guy's not real, right? Because that's- Well, they'll defend him to the end of the earth. They won't believe me. I'll look crazy. And it also, it'll affect my community.

And I love my community so much. And unfortunately, we're both part of the same community. So I don't want to create a division where they have to choose a side. And in the yoga world, you just trust yoga people. Like, they have spiritual practices and they meditate and they're connected and they're self-aware. And so in the yoga, when you meet someone who does yoga, you're like, oh, you're automatically cool. Because I know what kind of lifestyle you live. I know you take care of yourself. That's an interesting point because I know people talk about how the yoga industry or just the

wellness industry in general is so wonderful and then also can really pray on people. Maybe we'll talk about that in the debrief. Yeah, I think spiritual abuse is something that should be brought up. Spiritual abuse. Okay, writing it down. Because there was a level of spiritual component to where I had trusted him to be spiritual. I was spiritual, and we were leading a spiritual life. And this was like what we were called to do, but we felt safe, you know. And so my spiritual beliefs were used in a way to help groom me and to create trust and bonding. There was a lot of mirroring in the beginning, but I thought we were just two random people that had a crazy connection because we were so similar. But I realized now he had mirrored what I believed and told it back to me.

So it just felt magical. You grew up on Disney. You're like, of course, someone's going to come from nowhere and it's going to be the love of my life. Yep. Of course. She said, you grow up on Disney. It's true. Yeah. Especially with an accent. There. Done. Oh, yeah. Of course. And so by sending this message out there, I'm hoping people can recognize that if something feels really too good to be true, It is, unfortunately. And people that are in spiritual positions, spirituality is something that leads you to something inside of yourself. It's not something that leads you to a person to tell you what to do.

That's the difference between someone leading you in a spiritual way versus leading you to them to follow them like a cult. And so I think if you are in any kind of situation that has a lot of spiritual elements, I would like that to be understood that your spirituality is personal. It's your own personal relationship. It's the path that leads to you. It is not where someone tells you how to get there and who you are and what to do. And you shouldn't feel afraid, I feel like, in your spiritual environment. I've had experiences, this is not exactly the same, but like where I had a therapist where I was like, oh, I'm afraid to tell them this.

I'm afraid to be honest about this. And I realized that that was a similar thing where I was like, oh, in a position where I'm vulnerable and I'm looking to somebody for support or guidance. I shouldn't feel scared of the truth with them. If you put someone on a pedestal, you're just constantly trying to impress them or prove something to them. And we're not all perfect, and we should be allowed to be human.

And they set up an environment that's not that. Absolutely. And pedestal spiritual relationships are tricky. And I believe in the circle. We're all the teachers. We're all the students. We sit in circle together. We learn from each other.

If someone can't learn anything from you and if someone is judge judges other things, they're likely not spiritual. Like I see now like how what people wear is judged and what people do is judged and their lifestyle and how their parents raised. And there are so many judgments. And I didn't see it then, but I see it now. And I think a true spiritual person is accepting and understanding. and is more focused on moving to a more evolved place versus looking back and making comments or judging what you do. And if you feel like if you tell them something you're judged,

then they're probably not really that good of a person. No kidding. I love it. Thank you so much for sharing your story, Nikki. I think you're so brave. And I think you'll see a lot of feedback from our audience. I can feel it from you. I can feel everything that you're feeling.

And you're just so genuine in how you're. and how you're sharing your story. And I think a lot of people are going to really relate to you. And I think they're going to be supportive of you. So you'll see. Absolutely. And we'll pass it on because I know it's anonymous, but people do love. We encourage our listeners to share their positive support.

And we love you so much. I just think you're so brave. Thank you so much for sharing your story. We can't thank you enough for putting yourself out there and just kind of. It's huge. Yeah. It's a big deal. It's terrifying.

Yeah. I imagine it is. I imagine it is. is. I hope there's some part of you that's like, okay, it's out. Like, but you never know how your story is going to impact someone else is going to help someone else. I appreciate you saying that McKenzie and these stories have impacted me listening. They've empowered me to share. I lived this secret life with him and then I had to work with him and I continue to live this secret life. And to share it in a way that feels safe to where I keep his anonymity and mine. So that way it's not going

impact. We won't allow anything else also. Like we don't like how these people act, but at the same time, it is the right thing to do to keep them. Like that's, like you've said a couple times, that's their story to tell, you know, but we're grateful for your stories. Yeah. And that's, we respect that. Yeah, I wanted to share my story. To me, the story isn't about him. It's about me. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. 100%. Hoping to encourage other people to let them know they can overcome it too. Because there are days when I just didn't think I'd ever feel again. Yep. And now I'm going to one of the top universities in the nation.

Good for you. I'm showing my daughter. Like, you can do this. You can change your life when you're like 40. It's possible. Amazing. You're amazing. Will you keep us updated?

Yeah. Give us all the updates. Sure. I'm happy to. Thank you so much for being here. Nikki is so nice to meet you. Okay. Crazy, right? Oh, man. It's too much. That was so abusive, so manipulative. Yeah, where do you even begin? I mean, I don't want to, this is going to be my seamless plug. So we've talked about our Patreon, maybe doing a book club. And she mentioned a Brne Brown book, Braving the Wilderness, which I have not read, but I wrote down. And some of the- If you guys heard that, let us know if you've read it. Yeah, let us know if you want to do that. Some of her story also reminded me of it ends with us, which is the

book that was just made into a movie. Oh, yeah, yeah. About an abusive relationship where the thing that I'll start here. So the thing that kind of reminded me of that is the way that he would just impulsively and almost subtly do things that were so manipulative and dangerous. But you almost walk away from those situations like, did that just happen? Like, yeah, like it's hard. It's very surreal, right? Yeah, like he like sped up in the car, like got, you know what I mean? Like he had like moments of making you feel afraid, but you don't put, you can't put your finger on exactly why or how, or when he would use, this is what, this is something I think people can relate to. I wrote down that he would use joking and taking jokes too far as an excuse. Yes. Yes. That's, I don't like that

at all because it's almost like someone said, you know, 90% of the things you say when you're joking are actually true. And I was like, that's probably pretty accurate. Every joke comes from something. Yeah. Something, right? So I don't know. If you're like, oh, you're so stupid. I don't. I'm just joking. Why are you getting offended? You're so sensitive, blah, blah, blah. But it's like, you just called me stupid. And that's going to affect you. Exactly. But it was a lot of reactive abuse, right? And I just think every single situation was manipulated to make her feel like she had to do this thing. I mean, I think I know what reactive abuse, but can you like expand on what you mean by that? So reactive abuse is when you do something and it elicits a response from someone and then you blame them for that response. Whoa. Do you know what I mean? You're like poking the bear, poking the bear. And then all of a sudden, when the bear gets up and starts fighting you and coming after you, then you're like, whoa, why are you so crazy bear? What are you doing? That's so manipulative in common. It is. It is very, very common. And it's awful. It's reactive abuse. You're not technically doing anything wrong until you're just pushing them, pushing their buttons until, yeah, you're escalating it until they respond in a way that's inappropriate or that you deem, you know, too much. And then they say, how could you respond in that way? That's crazy. Whoa. Whoa. Okay, I have a lot to process. That's massive and huge. And I think he did that all the time. And then also it's just so controlling of her like every move. And just making her feel like crap if she didn't do something. And I feel like the things that he was asking her to do, he knew good and damn well were dangerous. They could get her in a lot of trouble. And I don't know. I just feel like if anybody asks you to do something like that, it's just not, it's not in your best interest. then you know that person is not, they are not looking out for your best interest,

and that's probably not someone that you want in your corner. You know what I mean? Yeah. So let's talk about how you get to that point because I know people are going to say, how could you do something illegal? We'll just keep it open. And we want to be the place

where we can have that conversation and acknowledge that sometimes those questions, while it makes sense that they come up, it is coming from like a victim, blamey place. and it's like a really nuanced journey to get to a point where you are doing things that you never thought you would be doing. So starting at the beginning, she wanted validation for certain things. You know, it seemed like I hung on to the idea of you date someone sometimes that has a quality you wish you had because when they like you, it allows you to think, oh, maybe I have that too.

Right. So I feel like she came from kind of a place like that, which makes her already susceptible to being, like, whatever he says is going to be what she goes with. Right. And I don't blame her for that. I just, I related to it. Honestly, I was like, oh, in college, I fully just dated someone because I thought they were smart and I didn't think I was smart. And then I thought, oh, maybe I'm smart because he likes me. You know what I mean? But sometimes you do those things out of emotion instead of logic. I'm an emotional thinker, not necessarily a logical thinker all the time. And so when we do that, but then once you do it and then this person shows you the, it's the unmet needs, right? So you do something and they say, oh, that was so great. That's so wonderful. And you're like, they loved me for that.

They really, and then you drive on that. And then when they say do something illegal, it's not like, oh, how could you do that? It's like, well, how could I not? This was the only person who ever showed me that love or whatever. So there's not an excuse for it, but really that's why we respond in that way is because when you have that need that suddenly met, you don't want to let that go. So you're going to say yes to everything they say. Also, how about the way he made her feel like she was chosen? Oh, yeah. That's such a thing. Yeah, exactly, where it's like, oh, I don't just date anyone. It's almost putting you on a pedestal in a way that's like. Yeah. Oh, I've never And who doesn't want to be put on a pedestal like that, right? I know. And I know there's so many people who

say, well, I would never deal with that. Well, you also would say, I would never let my kid leave the dinner table without eating their peas. And then when they do, and then you're like, I'm not fighting with you, goodbye. Like, I don't care. Do you know what I mean? Like, I would never. But when you're in that situation, yes, you would. Shut up. I don't have any kids. And I'm so like, I know I'm, I'm wrong because I'm holier than that hour. I'm like, I'm not going to let them have an iPad. I'm not going to let them have a phone. And I know that I'm going to get so annoyed with them that I'm going to be like, just take the iPad. Like, I know. Well, because, and then you're trying to keep up with the trends, too, right?

Like, it's just the same as adults. Like, whenever someone says, like, oh, I would never do that. But if you're doing it and the man you love is doing it and he's making you feel safe doing it, now you're going to do it too. Like, it's so easy to look in and say, I would never until you're there. So that's why it happens is because we are human. That's always to it. We're not stupid.

We're not idiots. We're just human. And dogfish, I'm really good at it. Yeah. And we don't think like them. Like them. We don't think like them. Like they are operating. They're good at what they do because they know how to manipulate our system using their system. You know, so. Yeah, that actually made, yeah, that made some sense. Also, the fact that everything just built on itself and it did not go from, hey, let's go on a date to, hey, let's smuggle drugs across state lines. Like, that's not how. Also, I hate how he allowed her to be put in so many situations. And then when she wanted to leave, like he, he didn't seem fear. at all. He was like, fine. Like, you know, do, like, there was no, that's who you need to be worried about is someone who is not scared of anything. Like, they don't care about you about that. They don't

care about themselves. They're not going to care about you, but they want to put you at more risk. So, such a good point. Awful. So anyways, the way he, he made Hurp do, like, when she was pregnant, I think he was like, I want you to do the dirty work. I don't know. I'm glad that I never got to like, but you don't care. I don't, ah, it makes me so much. He cares about anybody. She mentioned a lot of times how everyone would walk on eggshells around him. She would especially. It's interesting when there's one person in your house that regulates the mood of everyone else.

Yes. It's yes. And everybody's like, oh, my God, are we? Like, what are we doing? How are we acting? What kind of day are we going to have? Yes. That's like not.

It feels very old fashioned. I feel like maybe it was a norm for a long time for the man of the house to just be like, who sets the tone. And nowadays, it's like, you can really use that to be abusive. Yep. And that was me and my childhood. That was my dad. My dad was the one who set the time to the whole. Like if dad was pissed, everybody was terrified, shaking in our boots. Like, he never touched my mom, but he would abuse the crap out of me and my brother. And like, so if dad, like, if dad was ever there, we did, we were terrified. But if my dad was gone, we were so happy. Like, it was relieving. And that's a terrible situation to be. And imagine that being your spouse or your partner that you are just terrified, you know? That's what an awful feeling. Yeah. And you want to. And you want to. serve them, like, as a wife. Like, you want to take care of him. You want to do all these things to please him. And especially when he shows you that, oh, I'm so proud of you're doing a great job, you know, and it's like at what point do you say, you know, I'm too good for this? And you can't because you can't see the forest through the trees. And also they make you feel like,

okay, so they give you praise and that you've earned that. So then when they're being abusive or mean or whatever you want to call it, you feel like you've earned that too. Yeah. It's always deserve it. Absolutely. And that's that's the whole problem. It's not the same. It's just like reminding me of all the elements of life that this applies to you. My thing was like I had to ask my family to, I don't let anyone I try. My boundary is like, please don't give me any comments about my body. Because if you tell me that my body looks good and I take that as fact, then when somebody says something about my body being bad, I take that as fact. So what I've done is tried to like neutralize it where I'm just like, I don't think I need anyone to make any comments about anything because I don't want to internalize any of them. And I'm just going to. Or if you say,

oh, you look good today. It's like, did I not look good yesterday? And then that's someone, that's me. Like, I'm an overthinker in that way. So that can be really difficult. Like not to, you know, stay in the middle. And there's something about a relationship where it's like, you never want it to be the thing that makes you feel the best because then it can also be the thing that makes you feel the worst. Yes. Absolutely. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. You've got to find your little equilibrium and it's so hard because you also don't control other people. Also, the fact that he gave her an orgasm and she'd never had one that I felt like we need to mention too because that's a lot of valor, baby.

Okay. So, yeah, that's a good point too. So when we talk about the orgasm that he gave her and she's like, I'd never had one before, imagine the high that that must have put her on like, oh, this feels really good. Not only like emotionally and mentally, but physically, that's a powerhouse move, right? Yeah. And how many of us have been like, I don't know if I'm ever going to find better. So I might as well just stay with this person. A hundred percent. That's why this is not an ad, people.

Something like Dipsy, which if you haven't heard us, we do sometimes advertise an app called Dipsy, which is audio erotica, audiobooks, little like short tips. Take care of your damn self. Exactly. it's so, I know it sounds like a little promiscuous, but it's not, like the ability to be in touch with your own pleasure and understand your own body and recognize that you can feel fulfilled with anyone or no one. And this is one of the reasons for the importance. Yep, you don't have to rely on anyone. Guys, and I'm not, and it's so common. It's like she's not alone in feeling like, I don't know how to find that. And that's, it takes work. I think it feels, you feel like you're maybe broken

if you don't know how to just do it with a snap. But it's like, no, you actually have to really sit with your brain and your body and yourself and it's uncomfortable, especially if you grew up in a conservative way where that wasn't okay. Y'all, let us be your girls that are like, buy the vibrator. Like I, if I can do anything with my life. Yes, that is so funny. It's healthy. Yeah, what else? Did anything else come up for you? Sexual health is health. It is. Period. I don't know. That's all. You guys, if you have a situation like this, like I want to hear about it, Have you ever been put in a situation where someone's asked you to do something illegal? And you were like, well, I love him and I want to do it.

And so you let him be your guide and you follow his guidance in that. Like, we want to hear that too. I think it's really interesting. And how brave of her to share her story, because you guys do not realize how many other people are likely going through something similar. Yeah. And I also am curious if anybody has legal experience or advice on if you find yourself in a position like that where you are roped into a partner's...

Yeah, that's a good question. Antics, because obviously you're trying to get away, but then also how do you get away legal ways? Yeah, if you're an attorney, we want to hear from you too. Send us, just email us to... Hannah knows the email. She's going to tell it to y'all. I got you, boo. Investigate at the dating detectivespodcast.com.

We want all your stories and thoughts and comments. You can also just comment, like, leave a review. Five stars. Please, if you feel urged to do so. and share your thoughts on the episode. You can comment on Instagram at Dating Detectives podcast, Facebook, TikTok. Speaking of social media, when you guys share our stuff, like we see that you guys are sharing our stuff and we appreciate it so much because it really helps our podcast grow. So thank you so, so much for sharing. So many of you have been like,

I tell my girlfriends at work. And so just thank you. We really appreciate it. It means a lot to us. And it, you know, we love to, we love this community that has been created with you guys. So thank you so much for sharing. It's really special. And it keeps growing and that's really cool. And we, yeah, if you have any messages for Nikki, we make sure that any support gets back to them, all of our guests. So you can always share, share that on Patreon or message, whatever. Whatever. Join the Patreon. It's $5 a month. So all of that's in the show notes. So make sure join the Patreon. Also, Book Club. Yeah, Oprah's Book Club. Should we know?

Yeah, it's the club. I think it'll be great. Anyways, we love you guys. And until next week, Trust your front team, love you, bye.