The Dating Detectives - Young Love: Part 2

Episode Date: December 11, 2023

Lauren continues her dogfish story, with a shocking ending! Make sure to stay till the end to hear more information on some of the conditions discussed in this episode. Click here to join our Patreon! For only $5 a month you will get 2 extra episodes a month, monthly virtual live events, and access to our community page! This episode is sponsored by HelloFresh. Go to HelloFresh.com/tddfree and use code tddfree for FREE breakfast for life! One breakfast item per box while subscription is active! ***The following Program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following Program is provided for entertainment purposes only and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for support See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following program contains names, places, and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7-233 for support. So again, Hena. We're back.

Everybody's probably been waiting. I know. You know what? Like, this is the first time where people actually, I think, were not super angry with us. Like, they were, you guys, we appreciate you being so patient. Well, it's fun because we haven't done a two-part episode in a while. And I feel like our audience has grown so grateful and exciting. But we have Patreon now.

We don't try to do them, but. Right. And, but it just felt like so many. More of you had theories and all over the place on Patreon, on DMs, on comments. Everybody had ideas and everyone was talking about it with each other, which made my heart happy. But I did promise a T-shirt if somebody guessed the ending and people had good theories. People had some partially correct theories, but I didn't see anyone get the- Yeah, partially correct.

That's what I- Exactly. So I'm excited for you all to hear. the rest of this story. It's bonkers and she's been through it. If you have not listened to part one, you definitely have to go back and listen to that. But here's a quick recap update to refresh your memory. So we are talking to Lauren. Lauren married her college sweetheart. They were very young. They met at a religious university. And since they've gotten married, he has had multiple unrelated

medical crises that she has had to help him through. His family's pretty M.I.A. when it comes to the medical stuff. So that's that. And then she's also found a box of debt in the back of his closet. And he was like,

oh yeah, that. He didn't deny it. He just was like, oops. So they're working on that. They've moved in with her parents to save money and get help with his medical problems. And where we left off is that her family doctor is seeing him and has suggested that this might be psychological and that maybe he should seek psychological help.

And we were like, what? What happens next? And so we're all of you. And now we get to find out. I will say stay to the end of the episode because there are some medical things that come up and we talk to an expert and got some expert information that we're going to go through at the end of the episode. If you're interested in that, you'll get a little.

breakdown. I can't wait to hear the theories that came out. I want to hear what those people have to say. I'm like, okay, I think we should get into it. Let's do it. Yeah, how lucky are we that she's telling us the story? Let's give it back to her. Part two, baby. Throughout all of this, we kept going back to that primary care physician.

And he made a comment that really caught me and David off guard. He was like, hey, so I think it's great that we're finding all these answers. but I really think that David needs to go and see a psychiatrist. Why? That all of these medical things that he's had, even just like that year, don't line up. That he thinks there's something else going on.

And... Oh, yeah, I kind of forgot that this was all in the course of a year. So he's had three separate serious health scares in one year. Yes. He thought it was really odd for... a 21, 22-year-old young man to be having all of these issues and to have them so in such short succession, he was basically like, hey, I think you need to go and see a psychiatrist. My brain is going so fast right now. I know. Keep going. There are so many things. The theories are

flying. Yes. So immediately, as soon as David heard that, he got really defensive. And he's like, I'm not crazy. This isn't like, that's really a fast. and I went into protective wife mode and I was like, why would you say that? And so we just, we discarded it immediately. And we're just like, obviously this is not psychological. And we got thanks, but no thanks for that. And you witnessed it. So you were like, I've seen that like this is something that this is real. Like it's not in his head. Exactly. So David ended up needing surgery to address the mastoiditis stuff. Surgery. And it was mostly to fix. like the sinuses and the deviated septum.

Okay. They were saying basically if we rotor, rudder, all of your sinuses, then it will drain properly and then it will cure the mastoiditis as a secondary. Okay. So we had that procedure. I was working full time.

And he still does not have insurance? And we were able to get him on some basic, like, state, like federal insurance. Thank heavens. That was, at least there's something. Yeah. We had like really basic care. And so I was working full time.

I would come home, check on him on my breaks and things like that. And then I would go back to work. Well, one day my mom pulled me aside. And she basically said, hey, I've been doing some research after talking with Dr. So-and-so. And I want to bring something to your attention and see what you think. And she said, I've come across this condition called Munchausen syndrome. Oh, no.

And it sounds a lot like what David has going on. And I said, tell me more. And so she started to tell me a little bit more that it can basically be an individual subconsciously manifesting diseases in their body or the symptoms of those diseases. A piece of it, like it did ring true to me. You were like, yeah. But at the same time, I was also very defensive and I was like, no, he can't possibly have that. That's no. And I shut my mom down. Because that's absurd. Yeah. Like that's. It's. It's crazy. My only, I know a lot more I feel like about Munchausen by proxy. Yeah. Because of that mom's jurist show and the show. So that's when somebody's making someone else sick, right? Or like. Or making them think that they're sick. And this is just when you can do it to you. yourself. Okay. Just quick science lesson. In some extreme situations, individuals can be like poisoning themselves to make them sick or things like that. Or I've heard of people kind of like,

don't they make their wounds worse or they can? That's kind of the gist of it, is that it's a psychological condition that is very subconsciously rooted. And so it can be really hard to diagnose. It can be really hard to even fully wrap your head around what it could mean and how it can manifest. But I immediately shut my mom down and was like, there's no way he can't possibly have that. There's just no way. Yeah. And so I just shut it down. And so once David had healed from his nose and sinus surgery, he did find a job.

and started working. But again, by this point, we are so far in debt. Like, we had known each other, just known each other for just barely over a year at this point. This is probably beginning of February. And you're married. You're in debt.

We're married. He's got this medical thing. Like, just with his medical bills, not even the other box of crap, but just his medical bills, there was over $27,000 of medical bills that we had already racked at. And this spreadsheet was so extensive that I remember writing, I was writing five dollar checks

and mailing $5 checks to every provider. Just to send something out. Yes, just as a good faith payment. I was, we had collectors calling. We had, and my parents were trying to help as much as much as they could here and there. Were your parents like starting to feel differently about him because he, kind of brought this. Yeah.

I mean, not the medical thing necessarily, but the debt that he brought beforehand. I never told them about that. Oh, they didn't. Wow, really? Mm-mm. So they just thought the medical stuff? No, because I didn't want them. I get it.

To worry. It wasn't their business. It was between me and him. No, you're right. Yeah. And so it was just the medical and they just didn't know how to help. Like, they would try to, like, occasionally when it got really bad. I would actually go to them and be like, hey, we have this collection agency from this medical

bill. Like, is there any way you could like lend us some money? And they would give us, you know, a few thousand here or a few thousand there. And it just that was he okay with you doing that? Did he know? Or did he know? He knew. He didn't like it, but I don't know, but he took it. Yeah. Yeah. Like I, he had no choice. But it wasn't like he had an attitude where he was like expecting anything. No. And he didn't ever tell me like, hey, you should go ask your parents because they have many. Because that would make me think that he's doing this just to try to get y'all's money. Well, that's usually a motive, you know.

Right. Right. And so, but it was just really difficult to try to keep all of that. And so he did find a job and was working full time. And then in March, he decided, you know what, I really do want to start a family sooner than later. we've got to take care of this debt. We've got to get ourselves in a better spot. I think I'm going to file for bankruptcy and just wipe out. Does that take care of the medical bills too? I don't know what the laws are now. At the time, it was an option. Like he had talked with a neighbor who was an attorney and was working on what that would look like. And the biggest problem is that his car was co-signed by they weren't like literally his grandparents, but they were like his acting grandparents. Yeah, yeah. And they had co-signed on the car.

And so if he filed bankruptcy that they would go after the grandparents for the car. Oh. And we obviously didn't want to do that. And so we decided to take my car that was paid off and traded in, pay off all of his negative equity and his car. and then we would get two leases in my name so that it wouldn't be touched by the bankruptcy. Right. Okay. That makes sense. So I went from having no car payment for me and his car payment to having two lease payments. Oh, man.

That's a lot. It was a lot. But I didn't love the idea, but I did agree to it. I went out, like, I knew what I was doing. And I went along with it. And you were gung-ho, like, in support of your husband at this point. Right. Yeah. I just kept thinking, okay, like once he gets healthy, like, then we can start to have like a normal life. We can start to have a normal marriage. We can start to just have any, anything normal, just anything normal would be great. And so we got the two cars and he was working and I was working and things were okay for about a month. They were actually like, we were still having the calls and the bills and everything. But that's, wasn't going away anytime soon. But his health was good? His health or seemingly okay? Yep. He was in a really good spot.

And then he got hurt at work. He had an injury at work, an injury to his knee, to his patella. And he had to undergo pretty invasive surgery on his knee where they shaved off the front of his shin bone, shifted it over, bolted it back in place. And supposedly that was supposed to help keep his patella where it was supposed to stay or it was a pretty intensive surgery. Sexy. Right.

Sexy. And so he had to have the surgery on his knee. And this was a really intensive surgery. Like he could barely walk. I had to help him get up and down from bed. Not working, I'm sure. Yeah, he was definitely off of work. I had to help him shower.

Like everything get dressed. Like he couldn't do anything by himself for probably about a month. and so during work at my lunch, I would drive home. I'd get him food. I'd help him get up, go to the bathroom, go get settled back on the recliner with his ice, and I'd go back to work. You were like literally taking care of him. You're a nurse.

Yeah. You're full-time nurse. Yeah. And so that was about a month. And then he could finally get around on his own pretty easily. And it was right around that time that he was coming up on his birthday. And so he decided he wanted to. to go back home and spend a week with his family. I couldn't leave because I didn't have

vacation time at work, but he was still off of work because of his knee. And so he drove up to spend a week with his family. And while he was up there, his youngest brother was, I think, about 12 at the time. And it was like his little mini-me, like his little shadow and that brother really struggled when we got married because he felt like I was taking David away, which is another reason why I felt it was so important to go over on Sundays and make sure that he still had his brother. Like, you know, we're still family. It's okay.

I'm not stealing him. And so David had a brilliant idea to bring this brother back home to stay with us for a little bit. And my biggest thing was, I don't have an issue if you want to bring him back. but your mom and stepdad have to figure out how to get him back home because we're not going to drive them back eight hours. We're not going to fly like you got to figure out how to get him back home. That's a lot of driving. It is. It is.

And so you're still at your parents. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, ooh. Yeah, that's a lot. You're busy. We're still at my parents. And so they say fine.

We'll agree to that. And so he brings the brother back home. And I think he's going to be there for like a week, maybe two, because we're in summer. now so he doesn't have school. And then it gets to be like three weeks. And the brother's still there. And it wouldn't be that bad except for this brother really doesn't like me that much. Right.

And so he would do these little passive aggressive things to try to just show me that I was not welcome. Like little stupid things. I mean, and he's a 12 year old boy, right? So like, you know. Yeah, you can let it roll off your back. with a girl. Yeah. Right. Exactly. And, you know, I'm the adult in the situation. Like, he's a kid. Like, and, but there was this one day that we were all walking out to the backyard. And David was first and then his brother and then me. And the brother grabbed the door behind him and slammed it in my face.

Ew, rude. Because he didn't, he didn't want me to go out. And I was like, okay. And I would have snatched that kid up. Yeah. And I was like, you know, I was raised in the South. So I was like, mm, no, sir. You did. not like no no we don't tolerate that disrespect no no and so i talked to david and i was like hey i think it's time for brother to go home he's becoming increasingly comfortable with showing me disrespect and i'm struggling with it and i need you to have my back and talk to your brother oh that was a master class in communication right there yeah i like that and well it didn't work so oh no Shit. Thank you, Hannah.

I wish he would have seen it the same way. He actually got really defensive. There's no way. He didn't do that. He didn't know. He wouldn't. And he didn't believe me. And he didn't defend me.

And he took his brother's side. Oh, I hate that. So mad. Oh, that's so hard. And it was at that point. You have to be on a team with your partner, even with your family. Like, I think that's so important. Yeah.

And so is that. that point that I realized, it's time for brother to for real go home. Like, you need to call your mom and we got to get him on a bus or something. And I mean, heck, I don't care. Put him on a carrier pigeon, but he needs to go home. And his mom and stepdad refused. And they wouldn't do it. They wouldn't pay. And so eventually, David was like, I just need to drive him back home. And I was like, you got to be kidding me. That's exactly what I said. I didn't want to happen. and they said they just wouldn't pay. And so if I wanted that kid to go home,

then we were going to have to drive him back. And so David got in the car, drove brother back eight hours north, decided to stay for another week. And I said, well, at least get your parents to pay for the gas. Of course they don't. If they're not going to pay to fly him back or whatever variation of shipping him back,

at least pay. for the gas. And that turned into a really huge fight where David accused me of only caring about money and finances and I don't care about people. After your family has done so much for him financially and otherwise. That's very frustrating. That was probably one of our biggest blowout fights. And... Oh, I would have been so mad. And that was like probably the day before he came home. So he came home and he was all. And he was Like, you could tell he was still mad at me, which I was still mad at him. Oh, like, but he was, like, because typically he blows off his steam and then he's fine.

I'm the one that sits in the stew pot for a while. But he was still off when he got back. And which was hard because that week, we were supposed to house it for a neighbor. And so him and I were staying at a neighbor's house at night. and here we're like real salty and icy kind of with each other. And I basically just told him, I was like, hey, I know you're not a big talker, but we do need to talk about this. So when you're ready, you let me know.

And so by this time, we're the first week of July. And we're leading up to the 4th of July holiday. So there's a lot of fun things coming up this weekend. I wanted to have our issues resolved before we got to the holiday festivities. But he just wasn't ready. to talk to me. And so we're kind of just going through the motions. On July 3rd, he had a doctor's appointment with that same doctor that he'd been going to this whole time that my family's known for years, the doctor that said, you need to go talk to a psychiatrist. So he was going in for a final

inspection on his knee after the surgery to basically say you're cleared to go back to work or your doc cleared to go back to work. And so he met with this doctor. I wasn't able to go to the appointment because I had to work, but my mom went. Like, that's how tight he and my mom were. My mom went to the doctor's appointment with him. And in that appointment, the doctor gave him it all clear. And then he was like, well, you sure, I don't want to risk it. I don't want to risk for injury. Can, you know, do we need to give it another week or two? And the doctor was like, no, absolutely not. You're fine. Your knee is fine. If you're not willing to go talk to a psychiatrist and admit there may be something else going on, then you need to just be a normal functioning human being and husband

and supportive spouse. You need to go back to work. You need to start contributing to your family. You need to stop being a burden to this marriage and start carrying some of the weight of this marriage and take some of the weight off of Lauren's shoulders. Okay, this doctor really came in swinging. I wanted to hug that doctor and say, thank you. Yeah. I need my husband to be present and we need to figure this out. And if he really is okay, then great. He needs to be okay.

Yeah, and like he had to have known that like now he's been had. So. Exactly. Yeah. Then the night of July 3rd, so going into the 4th, we're at this neighbor's house staying at their house. And I have this terrible nightmare that he's like, Right, Lauren, let's sit down and let's talk.

And he proceeds to tell me that he's not happy, that he feels like he needs to go back home, and that he is leaving, that he's just leaving. And I wake up. I'm in a cold sweat. I reach over and he's still there. And I think, oh, thank goodness, he's still here. He's still here.

And it was like this horrible nightmare. And we wake up. It's the 4th of July. We're, you know, I'm excited for the festivities. He's still a little icy towards me. But it is what it is. It's a holiday. We don't have to work.

I'm hoping it's going to be a good day. That afternoon, we are in our room at my parents' house. And he says, all right, Lauren, I need you to sit down. I need to talk to you. So you shut up. This is final destination. Shut up. And so I sit down.

And he proceeds to tell me. I'm just not really very happy. I think I need to move back home. And he proceeds to word for word, tell me exactly what I dreamed that he was leaving. That is crazy. I mean, I understand that you were feeling like anticipatory. Is that the word? You're anticipating that something like this could happen, but the timing of that is where the world is so confused.

Yeah. Okay, but then so, oh my God. Does he say he wants a divorce? No. Yeah, I'm in shock too. So then what happens? Not a divorce. No, he doesn't want a divorce.

He just wants to go back and try to find himself and figure out what he wants. He doesn't think we want the same things anymore, but he just needs to figure out himself and take some time. And I was just so in shock that I didn't see it for him just leaving me. Do you ever wish your friends were as into true crime as you are? Yes. I think I'm psycho. I know, they don't understand. Well, we want to tell you about a podcast called True Crime Society. Stephanie and Olivia from the popular True Crime Society social media accounts are ready to tap in as your true crime besties, and they can guide you through the latest cases, taking the internet by storm.

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We're still going to go because I'm in that level of shock that I'm like, well, they're expecting us to show up. Yeah, that's what you do. you put your head down and you. So that's what we do. You get the crap done. And so we show up and we're holding hands and we're all lovy-dovey in front of my family. And then after fireworks, we leave and go back to my parents' house.

And we're getting ready to pack stuff up to go to the neighbor's house to still go and watch the neighbor's house and their dogs. And he's planning to leave in the morning. And I told him, you need to say bye to my parents. And he's like, no, no. And I was like, no, no, no, no. They have let us live here. They have supported us. Like you, like, they love you, especially my mom. Like, my mom treated him like a son. Like, you- At least you could do. Yes. At least say goodbye. So that night, my parents finally got home pretty late. And we go downstairs. They're in the kitchen. And I say, mom, dad, David's got something that he needs to share. And so David proceeds to. share that he just feels like he needs to take some time and move back with his family. And my mom is very level-headed and is very, let's talk about it. Like, walk us through.

What are you feeling? What's leading to this? Like, very calm. Oh, bless her. Just very calm. Like, let's just talk about it. Like, maybe let's see if we can find a counselor that we can get you guys in with. Or, you know, let's just see.

And she's got him about to the point where he's, like, agreeing to stay and, like, talk to someone about this. And then all of a sudden, in the background, there is my dad, who is basically the embodiment of the anger character from inside out. Okay. And protective, I'm sure. And, like, how dare you do this to us? So, and I am, I am daddy's little girl, 1,000 percent. And he sees, like, no, you don't do this to my daughter or my family. Yes.

He sees right through what David's doing. Does he call him out? He does. And he calls him out and he's like, you coward. I can't believe you're doing this. And just goes off. And David immediately retreats. Like, he turns around and he books it upstairs to our bedroom.

Like, he runs away. And he can. Oh, my God. He literally runs away from your dad. He is a runner. Okay. Yes. He runs and he hides in our bedroom.

And so I go to follow him. And, Right behind us is my mom and dad, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, just let it be. And my dad is like raging. You know, he's only seeing red. I don't know what my dad would have done, but I fortunately, between my mom and I, we got him to calm down and, like, just leave. And then once my dad was out, David literally ran away.

Like, he ran out the front door, and we lived near some government land, some, like, Bureau of Land Management Land, gets a mountainous area. and he literally just like runs up the mountain in the middle of the night. What? Oh my God. Yes. Wow. He just so dramatic. So he just runs up the mountain.

A real cinematic moment. Yes. And we can't find him. And so we end up going to, and this is all just so crazy. We end up going to our church leader. house because he works for the Bureau of Land Management. He lives up on the mountain. He knows the mountains really well. And we just need help. We're like, we don't know what to do. We don't know who to go to. We need help finding David. He's in the mountains. What do we do? We lost a boy on the mountain.

Yeah. We need to call it. It's not funny, but also what's not search and rescue? I mean, were you worried about his like mental health? Yeah. Like what are we worried about this point? Like, what's the worst case scenario? Are we worried about him, like, obviously the breakup? Or is it kind of like, he's going through some things? I don't even totally know what I was the most worried about with him besides just finding him. Because it's not like he knew that area. Like, he and I aren't hikers.

Like, I like to look at mountains, but I don't like to traips around them. He and them. Girl, same. Don't ask me to go on a hike. And so I don't know the area. And so our church leader takes his dog in a flashlight and goes hiking up this mountain to find David in the middle of the night. Oh my gosh. It's a dark and windy night.

You were right. It's a dark and windy night again. A dark and this is so bizarre. Okay, so he's. And so he's up in the mountains. Our church leader finds him. We're with he? He was up in the mountains somewhere.

I don't even know. But the church leader sits with him. What do you mean? Just all willy-nilly just in the mountains? Yeah, he just was up there sitting and crying and having a breakdown. And our church leader found him and just sat with him and talked with him and kind of calmed him down. And just asked if he'd be willing to, you know, stay and talk and let's work through things. Let's get some help.

And David at that point was done. Like he was like, I just need to get out of here. I can't live in the same house as Lauren's dad. and which, I mean, after how mad my dad got, like, I kind of... After he violently threatened him, I guess. I mean, you know, he, I can understand why he might not want to be around my dad. And so we ended up being able to talk him into going to the neighbor's house that we were house sitting for. And we talked for a while and he still was going to leave.

And so the next morning on July 5th, David wakes up. He packs up his suitcase full of stuff. and he gets in the car and drives home to where his mom lives. Your car? Yeah. I was going to say, your least car? Yeah. And at this point, I was still thinking we had a chance.

Like, I was still thinking... You thought this was just a break to go home. He just needs some time. He needs to figure out some stuff. And we're going to work through it. Like, it's going to be fine. We're going to work through it. And so I'm meeting with my church leader.

I'm meeting with... mental health professionals, and they're all like, Lauren, this isn't going to last. It's over. You need to accept that this is over. And I was like, no, it's not. Like, we can totally come out. Like, we can make it through this. We can totally make it. We just need to give him some time. And, like, I'll move up there. What do I need to do to make it work? And they were just like, well, okay. And he wouldn't let me come visit him. I kept telling him, like, you give me the word and I will be there in eight hours. Like, I will come, I will quit my job, I will pack up our crap. Whatever, you tell me and I will be there because we got to work through this. And then finally one day we were on the phone and we were having a bit

of an argument and he said, you know what, Lauren, I'm done. I am done. And I said, don't say that unless you mean it. And he was like, no, I mean it. And I said, you know what, I'm going to hang up because I don't think you really mean it. And so I hung up. And my mom was right there and she's like, what just happened. And so I told her and she was like, you call him back and you make sure. You call him back. And so I called him back. And I said, hey, did you really mean it? Are you done? Are you for real done? And he said, yeah, I'm for real done. And I said, okay. Did you have a reason? What was the, did he say? Like, why? Like, I don't get it. He never, to this day, he has never given me a reason why he left. Really? He's never given me a reason why he left besides that he's unhappy and he needs to find himself.

and he doesn't think we want the same things. And so it was at that point that I finally went and talked to a lawyer. Yeah, so I finally went and talked to a lawyer and the lawyer said, you know, is there anything that would qualify you for annulment instead of divorce? Because with annulment, you don't take any of his debt. Right. And I... Oh, the debt. Oh, the debt.

Okay, so what happens? Oh, the debt. Yeah, all of his debt. I just take, like, the card debt, that everything else would be him. And I was like, no, I don't, like, there's nothing. And then the next day, the brother that's just younger than him, oh. He'll spill the beans.

What is it? What is it? Yes. And that brother called and said, hey, we think you deserve to know the truth. What's the truth? Oh, my God. No. What is it?

Dun-na-na-na-na-na. Yes. To be continued. No. I was like, if you don't run this show, Molly, make her stay. Panicked. And so he proceeded to tell me that David had Munchausen syndrome. Uh-huh.

They knew? And that they never told me because they felt that. that the Munchausen syndrome would create these situations when he was feeling really stressed or like he wasn't loved or these different types of situations. And he's been doing it his whole life. And I had no idea. I'd asked him in the past if he'd always been sick. And he said, no, I had tubes put in my ears when I was like four or five.

and then I broke my arm when I was like 20. And other than that, I've never been sick or hospitalized. Lai? So he lied. So yeah, he lied about that. And his family didn't ever correct it. I have so many thoughts. So they knew that he had Munchausen syndrome.

That is what his family told me. And they thought that because of how much I loved him and how much constant attention I gave to him and how supportive I was of him that it would maybe fix it. Okay, well, let me just play out a thought. From the limited knowledge that I have of Munchausens, I feel like part of it is wanting to be in the role of needing care.

So the opposite feels true for me that you being such a caretaker to me would amplify I just feel like I've heard that Munchaus is like part of it is that you psychologically want to play the sick role and adopt that identity of like needing support and getting acceptance and needing and like you gave him all of that. I'm just, it's interesting that they thought that him not being stressed would solve it when I think that the opposite is. I'm so confused. And so that's that was enough. And he was aware that that was. that that was a thing.

Like that's part of why he freaked out so much when our primary care physician right off the bat was like, hey, actually, we think this is more psychological. And that's why he freaked out so much is because we were that close. Oh. Yeah, he was like running away from your diagnosis. So, but that doesn't answer my question, though.

Like, wait, I got to Google Munchausen's because if Munchausen is something that they're not aware, Like this guy totally dogfish you, but did he know it? Did he know he was lying? I think he's a good person, generally speaking. I think he just... Yeah. Like, I think he just has a lot of psychological stuff.

I think for him, he's very far into denial. And I don't think he thought he was lying. He was lying. But I don't think it was intentional. I think it was self-preservation. I think it was denial. I think it was him wanting to be loved and accepted. And I don't think he went into it trying to deceive me about this.

So what happened after that, Lauren? Like what happened after they? Yeah, what do you say on that call too? Yeah. I, everything just snapped into place. Like, it all just made so much sense at that point. I mean, obviously, I was shocked and surprised. but it was very clarifying.

And I thanked him for calling and telling me. And so I called my lawyer and that did qualify us for annulment. Did it really? It did. Because if I had known about this type of psychological condition, I may not have married him. If I had known this was going to be a lifelong thing, it's like someone withholding an addiction.

It's like someone withholding anything like that. Like it's, it is something that will affect you for the rest of your life and therefore affect your spouse. That is good to know. I imagine you were heartbroken. Were you ever, like, was there a point where you were like, I don't want to break up with this guy,

but this is also freaking weird. Like, I can't just do this my whole life. What was your thought process? So by that point, my whole world had shattered. Yeah. My biggest fear up until, that point was marrying the wrong person. And so to have this level of betrayal and abandonment,

like, it was, it rocked my whole world. I was not okay for a long time. I was grateful that we did qualify for annulment because then I didn't have all of the financial everything on top of the emotional everything. I mean, I now had two cars in my name that I had to deal with. So my parents helped me with that. They bought out one of the leases so that I could sell the car and make what I can from that and then give it back to them. And then what kind of came up at that same time was my parents had helped a lot with medical bills and collections and things like that. And it had when all of a sudden done, when we were doing the annulment paperwork, we had to add it all up. And it ended up being around $15,000 to $18,000 that my parents had given to him, had given to us.

And my lawyer had suggested that we put that into the annulment paperwork that he needed to pay my parents back. Yeah. Because it was all for his stuff that was going with him in the annulment that I would have never asked for that money or anything if it hadn't had been for him. Right. It's been for his medical. Right.

Yeah. For his situation that had we known, I may not. He've even married him in the first place. We were talking about putting this into the annulment paperwork, but just to kind of demonstrate how close he and my mom were, he ended up calling my mom and having a side conversation, kind of like mother to son style, and basically just promised her that he would pay her back and just asked her not to put it, not to have me put it in the paperwork. And so it was because of that that we didn't put that money in the annulment paperwork. And the other really crazy thing about the money and not putting it in the annulment paperwork is that this is also when I found out the truth about my wedding ring. Oh, we're circling back. What's the truth?

I did too. I was like, okay, that's just an interesting part of this. Okay, tell us about the wedding. Yes. So the truth about the wedding ring is that the night before the wedding were at the hotel. And my mom made a comment about the ring. And he said he didn't have it. And my mom's like, what do you mean you don't have the ring?

And he said that the jeweler refused to deliver it. And my mom, being the good Southern lady that she is, was like, well, gracious, no, that's just not going to fly. my daughter's not going to have a wedding ring on her wedding day. Yeah, she needs a ring. She said gracious, no. Like, that's just not going to work out. And so my mom said you get that jeweler on the phone and we're going to have a little chit-chat. And so the jeweler gets on the phone and proceeds to say that they have the ring.

They're happy to deliver it, but that David has not paid a penny on it since the $50 down payment when I was with him. What? And so he's like, so excuse me, ma'am, but I am not about to drive a several thousand dollar ring to someone who has not even made a single good faith payment. So thank you, but no, thank you. So did your mom have to end up paying for the ring? So my mom gave him a credit card number over the phone and paid for the ring in full that night.

And that is how we got the ring. Oh. She never, I'm sure. all that paid back to her. Oh, no. He has not paid either of my parents a penny. To this day? To this day. So the annulment goes through. No financials are included in the annulment. And we kind of both go our own separate ways because we didn't have kids. There really wasn't anything keeping us tied. And that is where we now jump to 2019. And I'm just scroll on the book of faces and a mutual friend from college posts a go-friend me. And it's a picture of David. And I was like,

what? Of course I'm going to click on this. And so I open it up and it's David. And side note, he did end up getting remarried and had two kids with another gal. And so it's this go-friend me and it's all of this medical stuff. And I was like, oh my gosh, like, man, I dodged a bullet. And then so I go digging for more. Like what else is going on with them? As you should armchair sleuth. It, yes, it opened Pandora's box of I haven't thought about this person for years. And now I'm going to go and learn everything I can about them. And that is when I found another video, like a live interview type thing with people from the community where he lived. And he was basically just talking about. some of their experiences. And this was, stay with me for a minute.

This was leading up to... I'm with you, girl, I'm with you. I'm on edge of my seat. This was leading up to Pride Week in the community and he was interviewing them about their experiences and then he brings on another guest at the very end. And he says, this is the most important guest to me. I would like to introduce you to my husband.

What? Yes. That took a turn. Okay. That took a turn. Meanwhile, in another story, you, your face, I bet, you were like, oh. Yes. So he turns out he had left the second wife as well.

And then a couple years later came out and married a gentleman. And he was talking about what it's like to come out in his community and, how we can support this community. And like, it was actually a really fantastic interview. But that was, it was the moment that I found out that he had come out, it was definitely a shock, right? But at the same time, yeah. Thank goodness it had been, you know, 13 and a half years later. Because in that moment, it was more a holy crap.

Like, what was he going through? And what must that have been like for him? to face me every day and be telling a lie. Like, I can't imagine, and not in a like, wow, you jerk kind of way, but like how challenging and how painful that must have been for him to have to hide that piece of himself. I just find your compassion so compelling. There are very few people, I think, who would have that level of compassion. And I'm so grateful for folks like you who actually have that compassion and that understanding

for others. Like, even though it's hard for you, like, you're thinking about. what he must have been going through. Well, and I, what he did was not okay, right? Like how he lied to me, how he betrayed me, what he did was not okay. But context matters. And it provided some of the why, right? The why he left, the why he, like he's never told me any of that.

And why he could, I don't know, I'm not a doctor, but psychologically if this is weighing on him and he has a condition that is affected by his stress or his mental health. then like it's an interesting case. It all plays together. It's very, very sad. In regard to Munchausen's and kind of where it manifests or how it manifests, it's obviously different for everyone, but I sometimes have wondered if there was a factor in just his upbringing

and how, from what he has shared, just kind of how difficult it would be to. be in the type of environment that he was in, you know, very Christian situation and knowing from a young age that he was not able to be true to himself and knowing I, like, he shared in videos since that he knew he was gay from a young age, but he hadn't accepted it until adulthood. I don't know how that works because I've never experienced that. But it must be a wild internal struggle. Absolutely.

Like to know something but not accept it. Like there's obviously some significant dissonance that has to happen. Sometimes I forget that I'm by. I was in denial. Like for me, it wasn't so much that I was like wrestling with it every day. I was just like, eh, we don't have to think about that. And like then those things come up physically. Right.

And that's where I don't know that whole part of his journey and what all that looked like. And I have so much empathy for what that must be. be like that I can't comprehend. I've never struggled or had the challenge my identity. And so I do wish nothing but the best for him. I hope he can get the help that he needs. He is a good person. He's just got a lot of stuff that's not tracking. This is so heartbreaking. And that's part of why I really wanted to share my story is because like, is he a dogfish? Yeah, in a couple different ways. But he's not a jerk. And he's not a horrible human. And, you know, does it mean that he's perfect? No, he's still daily telling lies to people. I think we can hold both

truths. We can carry that empathy while also recognizing that the behaviors were harmful. Absolutely. And I don't think, in his mind, I don't think he thinks he's lying. Even to this day, I don't think he thinks he's lying. And so I think it's important to bring light to just yet another area of dog fishing that isn't malicious. Another breed of dogfish. Yes. It isn't a malicious. But it's interesting that you acknowledge, like, he wasn't a jerk.

Like he, but he, like, he tried. He was in pain, literally and emotionally. Lauren. That's a wild ride. Like, that's crazy. Yep. And, you know, I feel really bad for the life that he has had to live and the things that he has had to go through.

And I am grateful. that he did leave. And I know that sounds crazy, but like he wasn't who I thought he was and he wasn't ever going to be, and I don't say this in a rude way, but like he would never be the partner that I deserved. And because he couldn't even be the person

that he deserved to be for himself. Yeah. And I did reach out to him after I found out. I messaged him on Facebook and I was like, hey, David. First ex-wife here. So I have some questions because I just found out that you're gay. And that's new.

So, surprise. Can we talk about that? Can we, you know, can we chat? And so he was in town. And so we sat down for dinner. And it was mostly, it was mostly him telling me all of his things that he had experienced and gone through. And I never did get to ask him. the questions that I had. Like, I never did get to ask him, like, how can you go in such a public

setting and continue to deceive and lie to people and get their money? And, you know, like, did he speak to the bunchhousins at all? No, he won't. He won't talk about that. He'll talk about his health and how he doesn't know why he's still sick and he doesn't know why he has all these things that are happening to him. And he doesn't know. It's still very much the same denial as before. But even though I didn't get my questions answered and I didn't get that, you know, closure, so to speak, it was still, it was still enough to see that he hadn't changed in nearly 14 years. He still hadn't changed. He was still the same person. Like, he still was all about him. It was still all about his health. It was still all about what was going on with him. It was. never about, well, what questions do you have? I can see why you might be confused right now or any of that. And so it was more one of those moments where to see that he is exactly the same

person he was when he left me and I was not at all the same person that I was when he left me. Like that was the closure that I think that I needed. Girl, amen. That is so true. And that's where for me, I just need to be able to be able to look at myself in the mirror at the end of the day and be proud of the person I am and the person that I've become. And I feel like I have been placed in so many people's lives since this happened to me who have gone through similar experiences. No one that has a spouse that supposedly has Munchausens that was also gay. Yeah, that's pretty specific. But definitely

people going through very specific marital problems or like a failed marriage. or just feeling alone or feeling like their whole world was completely just blown into a thousand pieces and not knowing who to talk to or what to do. This experience has just made me realize that life is really hard. Like, it is really hard. And we're not meant to go through it alone and being able to be there by their side and hold their hand. Because I didn't have anyone who'd been through something like this before. I was the first one of everybody that I knew.

But now they do. I bet they're so grateful for it too. And that's made it worth it. Like, I am so grateful that he left because I never would have. I am the most loyal human on the planet. And I would have never left. And so I'm grateful that he left because he gave me a second chance at life. Can we get a little – so it's been a while. Yes.

This is 2006, you said? Yep. 2019, you check in with him. How are you doing? Who's your new man, girl? If you want to share, whatever you're comfortable sharing. No, there is no current man. I have I've actually learned that my personality tends to attract men that are dogfishy.

Girl preach. So yeah, so I've been through a few different things. But for the most part, it really is I have just kind of focused on me. And good for you. I'm bettering my life, becoming the best version of myself. And if the right person comes along, then great. Like, I'm still putting myself out there. But I'm not, I'm not worried about it.

And really just focusing on the relationships in my life that I do have with my family and friends. And those that are, you know, my writer dies. And an amazing job that I love. And I just, I feel very supported in my life. And I'm very grateful. Like, I have a very blessed life for sure. And I actually, I turn 40 tomorrow, which is super exciting. Oh my gosh. Happy birthday. That's what you're going to say about birthdays. Happy early birthday. Thank you. But yeah. No, I am doing very well. I love my life. I hope that one day I find a life partner. But if I don't, then I want to enjoy the life that I've built for myself.

Thank you so much for telling your story. That is, I'm just so blown away by like. You're so strong. Yeah, well, and like, I'm obsessed with this Munchausen thing. Like, I need to know so much. Like, do I have Munchausen syndrome? Like, you know what I mean? Like, I need to know all the symptoms. And so like when I was on the Google machine, I was looking it up and it said, are you a WebMD person, McKenzie? Are you like somebody that goes and looks at WebMD for cold and you're like, oh, I'm dying. I have brain cancer. It's fine. So this is clues to Munchausen syndrome, having symptoms that do not match test results, having symptoms that get. worse for no apparent reason, having very good medical knowledge, receiving few or no hospital visitors. Many people with Munchausen syndrome have a solitary lifestyle and have little contact with friends or family. Because they know that you got Munchausen syndrome, probably. Wow. Interesting. That's why his family was not around much is because this is, this is just same old, same old. Oh, it's another Tuesday. Wow. That is so sad. Well, yeah, and I also unpredictable. I had no idea where the story was going as I'm sure you did not either when

you were living it. No, not at all. You've been thrown a crazy hand. Yeah. Just the compassion. I hope that this helps people. And I hope if nothing else that people can know that like give it enough time and enough healing and you may not see that person the same. You may not feel like they ruined your entire life. you may feel like they actually gave you a second chance at it. That's a really good point. Oh, my gosh. Just take some time to get out from under it, you know? Oh, gosh.

What a breath of fresh air you are. Thank you so much for sharing the channel. Thank you, Lauren. Thank you so much. I appreciate y'all letting me come on and share my story. Well, that was a wild ride, yeah? I mean, how's everybody doing? I wonder who's going, I knew it.

I freaking knew it. We definitely had a lot of people throw Munchausen's around in the theory. The coming out as gay on his radio show part. What? I was like who, no one saw that. Like that was, that was wild to me though. Like, even to me, I was like, I've seen a lot. And it's like a lot.

It adds such a layer, a new layer to the whole story going back and thinking about it from knowing that as well. I mean, there is some element absolutely sympathetic to his, you know, all of the issues, but also what he put everyone through and might continue to put people through is devastating. So we've actually, so since as far as we know, since as recently as 2021, we know that this guy is still munchausenning, doing the munchausen thing. Munchausenning. There was a go-fund me. Yeah.

There was a GoFummy set up, like to help. Can you even like, I just, so let's get into it. Because we obviously had to do some research because all I knew about Munchausen's was from that Munchausen's by proxy story, the Gypsy Rose case that. Yeah, that was a crazy story. Yeah. So we want to go into what it is and talk about all kinds of stuff about it. So let's do it.

But I want to, I just want to make it clear for our listeners. Hannah and I are not medical doctors. We do not know. It's not something we studied. This is just some information that we found from reputable sources. We did talk to a medical professional to get information about it. Also, our information about the case we're talking about in the story, you know, HIPAA is a thing.

So we don't have his medical records. But from the story, we know that from his family and obviously her account, he's diagnosed with Munchausen. So we're going with that. It's also known as factitious disorder. It's a rare type of mental disorder in which a person fakes illness, the person may lie about symptoms, make themselves appear sick, or make themselves purposefully unwell. There's Munchausen's by proxy, which is the disorder that people might be more familiar with. That's when people try to make someone else sick so that they are the one being a caretaker for them. But this is just Munchausen's where he made himself sick.

Because Munchausens, it can be confused with some other disorders. So we want to talk about those and how they're different. Classes and session. So first of all, let's talk about malingering. Okay. So have you guys seen Ferris Bueller where he like, he pretends to be sick at the beginning of the movie? If you ever called in sick, that's malingering.

Like you're just saying that you're sick. You're not really sick. You know you're not really sick. You're just kind of saying that. Oh, we have all been malingerers. It's a funny way. have at least. So that's kind of, that's kind of malingering. Like we're, we're just, we're using it as an excuse to get out of, you know, whatever it is. That's malingering. So the difference between that

and Munchausen's is that malingering has a very specific goal, just like getting out of school, the army, trying to get money. Maybe getting money, yeah. If that's a lot of cases, you're on a lot of malingering cases. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. And so people with childsons, they're trying to, so they're basically, they're just trying to get something out of being sick, but it's, it's usually something more abstract, like sympathy or attention, and they aren't necessarily fully aware of what they're trying to get out of the situation. Like, they know they aren't sick, but they don't have full control over what they're doing. Something that made it clear for me is like, so they know they're not sick, but they don't have full control. In anyone who's ever dealt with

any kind of mental health disorder, eating disorder, like there is an awareness that what you're doing is wrong. Yeah. And yet you don't have control. And I think looking at it from that perspective makes it a little bit easier to understand how people with Munchausen's have to operate. It's a disorder. It's a disease and it's sad.

I think it's good to address that there is malingering because a lot of us are like, oh, my God, I've faked sick. Am I? Do I have Munchausen? So the other disorders are conversion disorders, delusional disorders, somatic symptom disorders. So they're all very different conditions from each other. But in all of those, the patient really believes something is wrong with them. And they feel actual symptoms for diseases that they do not have.

I can't. Crazy, right? Like, I just can't. Munchausen is, so it's really difficult to diagnose, as you can't. imagine, like, you know, because how do you prove this stuff? So the symptoms most often used by people with Munchausens are like chest pains, abdominal pain, fainting, skin wounds that don't heal, vomiting, weakness. So those are things that are like hard to prove and they could point to a lot of different underlying problems. And when doctors start doing all the tests, they probably won't

find anything. So then they start digging until they do. In this case, like, you can't tell someone that they did not faint. You can't tell someone that they do not have a headache. These are symptoms that are hard to prove in any capacity. And then, yeah, so doctors start doing all the tests, try to find something that's wrong. In this case, it's a great example because his symptoms never fit exactly with what the diagnosis was. So like if a doctor digs hard enough and you keep saying, I have splitting pain in the back of my head. Like they're not going to just be like, I don't find anything like that. You know what I mean? Like they're going to want to help. You're like, I guess that's it.

Like, there's nothing else wrong. Deviative septum, I guess. They'll try something. Right, but a deviated septum doesn't make your heart stop. You know, like they didn't quite match, which is I think, why the psychiatrist raised an eyebrow and suggested. No, not psychiatrists. I'm sorry. Why that doctor suggested a psychiatrist, yes.

Yeah, he saw red flags. Sometimes, like, if you think about it, people with Munchausen are still humans, so they do actually, really, actually legitimately get sick sometimes. So then it's like, you know, crying wolf, it's like, are you really sick this time? Or is this another thing where you're just. And so that I can imagine is another hard thing to deal with with someone with Munchausens. And then like, how do you know? It's, it seems so intense. Like this was a lot that she went through.

I'm so grateful that she shared this story with us because there's probably a lot of people out there going through this and don't even realize it. Dogfish. So I think hiding, first, hiding the debt is, so the debt thing that's totally dogfish material. like you're lying. Like that's, that's definitely dogfish. Like you're, you know, that's red flag, like a hundred percent. And, like, that is a complete dogfish red flag. And then he dogfish himself. He dogfished himself. I mean, I'm curious how people, on a scale of one of dogfish, where would you all place this? Because I think there are absolutely dogfishy elements, but he also had a disease. But his family also dogfished her by not telling her with her you about his diagnosis.

That broke my heart. So dogfishy. So we had a dogfish family. But yeah, I'm curious how people would classify this because it's definitely a different type of dogfish than what we've had. Yeah. If you guys have experienced anything like this, can you share it with us? Because I would love to know more.

If you yourself have experienced like Munchausens and you have something that you would like to add as far as like knowledge or education about it, because obviously this is just stuff that we've found out through our research. but if you have, you know, firsthand experience, we would love to hear from you and if you're, you know, willing to share that. But we just, I just, it's just so interesting. It's just another, another type of dogfish. It's just so interesting. You can email us your stories. And don't forget, we have a new email address. So make sure that you are using our new email address. It's kind of the same, but it's different. Just use this new email address. It's investigate at the,

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