The David Knight Show - Interview: 250,000 Children Abused – The UK Government Knew & Did Nothing

Episode Date: July 10, 2026

Pastor Joe Rigney joins David Knight to address the Rupert Lowe independent rape gang inquiry — up to 250,000 white British girls subjected to systematic sexual torture by organized networks of Pakistani Muslim men, with documented complicity at every level of government from police to the NHS to child welfare services. Rigney argues the British people's real sin isn't ignorance — it's multiculturalism and colonial guilt weaponized as a virtue so effectively that exposing the obvious became career suicide, and nobody in power felt the fear of God more than they feared being called racist. Money should have intrinsic value AND transactional privacy: Go to https://davidknight.gold/ for great deals on physical gold/silver For 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to https://trendsjournal.com/ and enter the code “KNIGHT” For high quality made in America products go to HomeSteadProducts.shop and use promo code “Knight” for 10% off your purchases Find out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.com If you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-show Or you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @[e-mail] App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-david-knight-show--2653468/support.

Joining us now is Pastor Joe Rigby, and he wrote recently an article in World Magazine about something we've been talking about quite a bit, and that is about what is happening in Britain with a massive immigration. And he also wrote a long treatise about the rape gang inquiry report. We're going to talk about that as well. He wrote an article on World Magazine about that and gave some points as to what he thinks is the fundamental problem and how the people of the UK need to recover from that. we need to understand. This is a broad agenda across a lot of different countries. It's coming to America as well. As a matter of fact, a lot of this is already here. And the same tactics that they used to put this in place are already in play here in the United States. And so the article in World Magazine was, well, Britain finally awaken. And we're going to ask him what it takes to wake people up. Thank you for joining us, Pastor Rigby. Hey, thanks for having me. Tell us a little bit about your recommendations that you had in the

World Magazine article report. Yeah, well, I, maybe I'll start with what I, how shocked I was when the, when the, so Rupert Lowe puts out this report. It's an independent, uh, rape gang inquiry report. You can go find that online. Um, basically attempting to examine whether, um, what had to this point been treated as isolated sort of, um, grooming gangs. So there was a famous one in Rotherham, uh, you know, a report about that.

And then there was another report. but the British government had not formally looked at everything. And so he raised money and did it independently to say, let's actually look and see how. And I just read it and was just absolutely shocked. It's huge. I haven't had time to read the entire thing, but I've gotten excerpts of it from the press.

And it truly is shocking. And what's I think even more shocking is the government's complicity in all of this, right? Right, absolutely. So it was, you know, the numbers are, you know, up to 250,000 white British girls all over the United Kingdom that weren't just, you know, they talk about grooming gangs or rape gangs, but this was like systematic sexual torture and ritualized by specifically Pakistani Muslim men. And it was it was organized, it was systematic. And so you think, okay, wow, that's going on. But it's going on with the,

at least passive complicity, if not active complicity, of every strata of British government, from police to social services, child welfare, foster care, hospitals, the NHS, like everywhere you look, it's like everybody is aware of this. They see these young girls being brought in with, you know, girls at 10, 11, 12 with sexually transmitted diseases. They, you know, with bleeding and beating,

and whatnot, and they just patch them up and send them back out with the same, you know, Pakistani men who've been abusing them. And so, and that everybody just looks the other way. That's amazing. It's just shocking. Let me interject here and say, you know, when you go to, we had a situation decades ago, my son who's now working the board was a young child and we went to a wedding in Nashville. And my mom was with us and she was in a wheelchair and he's a little toddler.

He falls in the wheelchair and he gets a knot on his, but he's okay. But it swells up a little bit. But then he goes over, and because we're in a hotel, we're rushing. My wife's got her iron on the bed, and he touches that with his hand. And he goes back. So then because we're rushing. We're not paying that close attention to him. And so he gets a blister on his hand.

And she was worried about the knot on his head. So he took him to an urgent care thing. And they said, well, we can't do anything about that. Go over here to the emergency room. And we went there. They called the police on us. Right. And so they're very, my point in all of this is that they're very, very aware of anything that might be signs of physical or sexual abuse.

And yet they just look the other way when it is so incredibly obvious. And the guy who put this together is a new leader of a new party, the Restore Party in the UK, because a lot of people are concerned that the whole idea that the conservatives aren't conservative and the liberals aren't about freedom. And the Reform Party maybe is not seeing what the real problem is. because it's not something that's just going to be reformed. It needs to be radically restored at the roots. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

And I think, so, you know, Rupert, I don't know a ton about Rupert Lowe. I've seen the announcement of Restore. And from what I can tell, I'm not an expert on British politics, I'll put it that way. But that, like you said, the conservatives have basically just been liberals going a little slower, but a lot of the same policies. And then reform, led by Nigel Farage, was, was, pitched as kind of the radical right alternative, but that they have kind of softened, especially on immigration, I think in an attempt to win votes of certain immigrant groups.

And therefore, they weren't, they haven't touched this issue. And then finally, Lowe says, I'm going to be the guy who's just going to tell it like it is. And I'm going to expose and listen to these survivors. You know, again, thousands and thousands of women. And you read the accounts, you know, these victim accounts. that are in there and you just can't believe that this would go on in a you know first world country with the knowledge and complicity of the governing officials who like you said normally in any other circumstances would be on it who would say this is absolutely unacceptable but because of the racial dynamics because of the

immigration dynamics just looked the other way and let it happen it was it was just shocking to me and And so I read it and thought, will this, and at the time, I mean, this has been now a couple weeks, but I thought for sure this would trigger something. And the fact that it hasn't is, I think, one of the more discouraging elements is that there hasn't been a widespread, you know, like protests in the streets and calls for, you know, a new election to put in a new prime minister and clear, clean house. the fact that there hasn't really is a discouraging thing about the state of the British people. Yeah, I know. I mean, we go back to 2020 and the lockdowns and all the rest of stuff that was happening there. I was very discouraged and still I am that there hasn't been a pushback against that, but they have their tactics. They have their propaganda, their media control. And, of course, at the root of all this, if you point out the obvious fact, and it is obvious because it is so widespread because there's been so many cases of it,

So it's obvious to everybody in society what is going on, but they want to cover this up and pretend that it's not happening. If you happen to notice that the emperor has no clothes or that the gangs are raping people, then you're the problem. And they shame you. And that's what everybody is afraid of. And so that's one of the points that you made in terms of recommendation. Public repentance, because the British people must repent of not only multiculturalism,

but also of colonial guilt and the fear of man. That is the real issue, isn't it? Yeah, no, that's absolutely right. It's very clear. This is one of the things that Lowe's report lays out is that it's not just an immigration problem. The native problem among the British is the fear of being called racist. And that commitment to multiculturalism. And so in some ways, the call is they need to repent of the things that they think are their virtues.

They think that their commitment to multiculturalism, they think that the colonial guilt, the white guilt, these are their virtues. This is the sign that they are good. And I think in light of these things, like, no, these are your sins. This stinks to high heaven. You need to repent of all of that and actually get back to working for the good of your people. Like working for the good of the British people and protecting them from these essentially, I mean, you know, the description of what they were doing where, you know, you target young girls, drugs, alcohol, bring them in,

and then eventually you start raping, torturing, threatening to kill them, threatening to kill their families, like systematically hundreds and hundreds of times. And it was a conquest domination mentality. It's not simply men who want to have too much sex. That's not what this is. This is cultural domination enabled by religion. It's Islamic, specifically.

It's not just random people. It's like, no, there's an ideology and a religious warrant for this. And it's shocking that they would allow it to fester like that. And, you know, there's another religion that is inherited in all this, and that is Marxism. I've had, and I forget the lady's name, it's a Chinese lady who came here after being a child in China and growing up in Mao's China. And she called it Mao's America, I think, was the title of the book when I interviewed her. and it was a survivor's warning to Americans.

And she said, I'm looking at the same tactics with all this DEI and critical race theory that we see here in America. Same tactics that they used in Mao's Marxist China. She said, it's not enough not to be racist, for example. You have to be anti-racist. You have to denounce yourself. And that was like what they were doing with a struggle session. So this is a full-on Marxist tactic that they're using. and they're wetting a lot of these things together.

And we have seen this weaponized very effectively in countries like Germany, where they have put the burden of the Nazis on people who had nothing to do with it. And so it's like a generational sin type of thing. And we as Christians ought to stand against that, shouldn't we? Yeah, absolutely. And you can see there was a report earlier this week, a Trump administration report about the Smithsonian and how so much of that ideological critical theory,

gender theory had worked its way into Smithsonian. And this is how it starts because it's first you have to change the past. How do you tell the story? Is America a story of founding liberty and freedom and so forth with heroes like George Washington? Or is it a story of, you know, oppression, violence, and, you know, and so the changing of the story, gender theory, you know, I remember going earlier this year, my family was that we were in Washington, D.C., and we went to the American History Museum. And I just came away, feeling like what I learned was vaudeville lesbians of the 19th century literally built America it was just the most like I don't I don't I don't remember seeing anything about the founding fathers maybe in passing but it was like every other exhibit was about LGBT it was about

you know it was women immigrants it was the whole thing like the only people who had no hand in building America it seemed other than a maybe an oppressive one were the actual men who did it. And so the changing of the narrative, the rewriting of history is the first step because it softens. Okay, you're oppressive, you're oppressive, you're oppressive. And then now that means when we let in these immigrant groups who are going to plunder and in extreme cases do what they've done in England, you'll have no defenses because you'll feel like you deserve it. Yeah, that's right. And I've seen this as well. I mean, certainly Washington is a wash with us. But But we used to take our kids when we lived in North Carolina, we'd take them up regularly

to Colonial Williamsburg. Of course, that was a foundation that was created by the Rockefeller Foundation. But in its early days, it was about the conventional American history, where the heroes who actually did the things that we talk about, the things that founded our country. But over time, we kept watching it get more and more DEI and critical race theory and things like that, and more and more critical of the people actually founded the country. And so I would ask some interesting questions to the people when they would have a group discussion. You know, they'd be putting their doctrine out there.

But most importantly, I wanted my sons to see that because they're homeschooled. They didn't see it too much. I said, look at that. This is what they're doing. And this is why they're doing that. And it was important to have that discussion. And it was that way in Colonial Williamsburg, it was really, really bad up at Plymouth Rock. We went up there one Thanksgiving.

that was far worse than what I had seen prior to that at Williamsburg, and I'm sure Williamsburg is caught up now at this point. But that is what they're doing, and they're doing it in culture, they're doing it in movies, they're doing especially in schools, aren't they? Yeah, and, you know, if you think about, here's a biblical parallel that might be relevant. When Moses is up on the mountain getting the Ten Commandments, errands down with the people, and they demand, make us gods, because they're scared.

They're scared. We need gods. When Aaron does it, when he takes their gold and makes a golden calf, what he says is, these are your gods who brought you up out of the land of Egypt. And so he's attributing the work of God to this idol. And it's a rewriting of the past. It's like the first step towards the idolatry, toward the rejection of the living God, is a rewriting of that history.

And so in the same way, there's a concerted effort to rewrite American history away from its Christian founding, away from the, you know, for all all of its flaws for the really the greatness of this country, rewrite that narrative in order to move us away from the God of our fathers. I agree. And of course, one of the other things they give me this gold and out came this golden calf. Like it just magically appeared. And that's what they're trying to tell us now is that all this stuff just grew up organically. I don't know how they say it must be true because it just happened, right? That's right. But yeah, you have a couple of books, as a matter of fact, at Canon Press that kind of

touch on this, I think. One of them, the sin of empathy. Tell us the difference, is there a difference that you see between empathy and sympathy? And what would that difference be? Yeah. Yeah, in that book, I try to distinguish them. You know, I'm not hung up on what words. People want to use different words, it's fine. Get the concepts. One is a kind of measured, anchored, tethered response to human suffering, where you see the suffering, but you're anchored to what is good and what is right, and therefore you actually seek to help people. I liken this too. If someone was drowning and you wanted to help them,

you would reach in, that would be the kind of the sympathy part. You're going to reach in to help them, but you're going to remain anchored to the shore so that you can actually lift them out. You need to be tethered to something outside of their emotions and their pain. On the other hand,

I would say the way the empathy often gets used in the modern world is essentially you just have to jump in with both feet. They're drowning and you just jump in. And now you have two people drowning. And so it puts their, emotions and their suffering in the driver's seat and becomes a tool of emotional manipulation. And so I think to dovetail that to some of these discussions, it's in the name of empathy

that Western nations are required to admit anybody who wants to come into the country for any reason, empathy for illegal immigrants, empathy for refugees. And you can say, I'm a Christian, shouldn't we be for compassion for these groups that are, and it's like, I don't say, sure, but why does that mean we have to let let in you know 11 billion you know able-bodied men into this country with no consequences like why do like that doesn't follow but it's empathy that is the kind of steering wheel that overcomes any resistance or objection that says hey maybe we we can't receive this many maybe we can't absorb that many maybe this is going to be harmful destructive are they compatible with our nation do they have the same values do they have the same

beliefs. Do they have the same cultural folkways? Will this work? And you can't even ask those questions. It's overrided by, well, you have to be empathetic. Yeah. And you know, when I think of it, I think about empathy being manipulation of the emotions. Remember Bill Clinton, I didn't know what he was trying to say. He was, I feel your pain, you know, that type of thing. And so it's like, it's all about your feelings. And it's not, like you said, anchored to anything that is concrete you know you can sympathize with somebody but with empathy you're supposed to uh really it ties into all this you can't uh not be racist it's not enough you got to be anti racist so you have to put yourself as you pointed out you got to jump into the mire with them and suffer with them

and and it just removes objective principles that's the whole point about it taking away it's almost like doing a lobotomy and that's just can be ruled by emotions and that's a very dangerous thing Yeah, so one of the ways I would distinguish the two phenomena is sympathy or compassion is looking at what would be good for them. It's the other person's good, what would be good, whereas empathy fixates on their feelings, which means the empathy will often do short-term fixes because it'll relieve the immediate feelings, but in the long run will be more destructive and harmful. It's amazing how much destruction you can cause in the name of empathy. You can kill a lot of unborn babies in the name of empathy because you can just override any moral concerns by the potential suffering or the actual hardship faced by a woman who's pregnant. And you say, well, empathy for her means I have to ignore the humanity of her unborn child.

It just overrides any rational and moral considerations. That's right. And when we look at this, again, we go back and we just become emotional about all this and not really look objectively at it. You talked about what is in people's best interest in terms of compassion. Is it really in the best interest of people whose ancestors went through something that was unjust? And of course, probably all of our ancestors went through something that was unjust in their life. That happens to all of us to some degree or the other.

But is it the way to move forward? Is it to just uproot and destroy our entire society and everything? You know, let's just forget about all the people who have worked hard and saved their money. money and bought a home or whatever. We're just going to give it back to, let's say, the Indians or whatever. That type of thing has been proposed. Is anybody really better off with that kind of situation? And that's what just focusing on the emotions, I think, really eventually leads to, as you're pointing. Right. Yeah. Well, and it sets up a kind of zero-sum situation where, you know, it's competition to be in aggrieved classes. So I refer to this as the victimhood Olympics. So the great

greatest victim wins. That's the rules of the game are you want to be in the most the most victim, the most victimized person sets the agenda for the entire community. And that was the rules of the game in that kind of critical theory, you know, cultural Marxist mentality was it was, it moved it out of simply the realm of economics. Classical Marxism was all about, you know, working class versus the middle class or, you know, the proletariat and the bourgeoisie. That was, that was the the bifurcation. And this just basically expanded that and said, well, victimhood could go in multiple directions. There's racial victimhood. There's gender victimhood. There's sexuality victimhood. There's every kind of victimhood under the sun. And the more victimhood points you can accumulate,

the more power that you have in that system. And that was, that was basically the, has been the operating system of the West in, you know, one whole one political party is completely sold out to it. I think part of the other political party wants to be sold out to it. And so you end up in a situation where if you just want people to play fair, you just want governments to call balls and strikes and leave people the ability to work hard, keep what they earn, provide for their families. If you're there, you've got massive incentives against you. And instead, it's let's stoke resentment and grievances among different classes and groups of people as a way of manipulating and controlling them. That's right. That's right. Divide and conquer. And I really think that that is that

that very simple strategy that everybody has always talked about, I think that that is at the root of what these cynical leaders are doing in order to betray their own people. They know that they have an agenda down the road, and that's what a lot of this back and forth with the encounters of the UK police are about. When people refuse to comply with the biometric surveillance and facial recognition vans that they put out there by putting a mask on their face, then the police come after them.

big time. And it was just a few years ago they were demanding that we put a mask on our face. That's right. It's crazy. That was the only sense. Or you're standing on a corner and you're just watching people and you're filming people. And they're filming everybody all the time. And so then they come after you just to make that compliance effect that is there. But you've got a couple of other things besides public repentance that would include things like getting over this multi-generational sins and guilt that they put on people. and the fear of man. What are the other things that you talked about in your article on World Magazine? Yeah, I think the other thing is for Christians, this is what imprecatory Psalms are for.

You know, we have these Psalms in the Bible that in which we ask God, you know, Oh, Lord God of Vengeance, shine forth, rise up, repay to the proud what they deserve. Like the Bible includes prayers like that for a reason. And I think sometimes modern Christians who aren't accustomed to having real enemies, struggle with what to do with those. And I think situations like this are precisely what those Psalms were written for. Here you have high-handed wickedness of the most grotesque kind, praying on the innocent, and God has given us language to express our outrage to him and call upon him to act on our behalf,

and act on behalf of the weak and the innocent. And so I think churches have to recover a robust, you know, whole Bible mentality and not simply leave out those what are often the gnarly bits, the parts that make us uncomfortable as modern Westerners, and instead say, no, these are in here for a reason, and you're going to face situations when Pakistani grooming gangs are systematically torturing young girls, you need to have language to take it to the Lord and call upon him to act and trust that he actually will. So that's a big one, and I think that's a, I think that's in some ways the thing that's most discourage.

When I say the lack of rising up or outrage, it seems, on the part of the British. Maybe the next election or something will show something more. But maybe it's just bubbling beneath the surface. We can pray that it is. But in the meantime, this is what churches should be doing, is cultivating righteous emotions. How should we feel about this? Like in the empathy discussion, I'm not opposed to emotions. I want emotions governed by what's true and good, and I want them intense in proportion to the way they should be. So if something is really evil, we should really hate it. Like we should abhor. Like this is a biblical command, abhor what is evil? Well, if you abhor it, are you praying to God like you abhor it? Or do you

just distract yourself with the latest Netflix show? Do you just kind of go back to your, you know, or do you take it somewhere? And then the third thing that I said is they have to channel, so it's awakened that outrage, because this is outrageous, and then channel it in effective ways. And so I think that there's a real risk of vigilanteism that will eventually bubble up in certain circles. I think that's what the total state would want is because they can then blame people. If people start doing vigilante justice against immigrants, it'll give them an excuse to crack down. And so part of what I would commend is national strikes. In other words, like the Solidarity Movement in Poland under communism, how did they, how did they

end it? Well, they all got to the solidarity was, hey, we're just going to sit down and stop working. We're going to grind this economy to a halt. We're going to make these people feel it where it hurts them. And so I think for the British people, for Rupert Lowe, for example, to call for a general strike and say, hey, for the next week, we're not going to work. We're going to grind the country to a halt until you call a new election and the people can have a chance to get rid of all of these folks who enabled it, who have a chance to hopefully move a bunch of those restore politicians into power where they can actually begin to take action. and not simply vent their outrage into the, you know, online social media. I agree.

And, of course, the powers that B understand that they can push us to the point that people strike back violently. You know, it was John F. Kennedy, who said, when you make peaceful change impossible, you make violent change inevitable. And so they are aware of that. And they look at that and their response to that is, rather than making peaceful change possible, they say, You know, we could use that violent response.

Yeah. No, it's true. You know, there's actually a great, there's an essay by C.S. Lewis that's just right on this point. It's called delinquents in the snow. It's a lesser-known essay by him. And in it, he basically describes a situation where some young hooligans basically robbed, you know, broke into his shed and stole a bunch of tools. And they were caught, and they were, you know, they were caught, arrested, and went down for the trial. and the judge on the trial basically treated theft of property like a prank.

Oh, these are just these are just childhood pranks. And Lewis wrote, he said, if you do that, if you treat criminal activity as just a sort of boys will be boys, no big deal, A, for the, like the criminals are going to learn there's no consequences, which is what we have today in many places. There's no consequences. Our urban centers in America and in the UK are just, you can do whatever you want. That's what led to the grooming gangs knew we can get away with it. They're not going to do anything about it. But then eventually it provokes vigilanteism on the part of the population.

And you do get this violent backlash and you're stoking revolution. Now, whether it actually come to that in the UK or the U.S., I don't know. I don't know that we have the fortitude or the, you know, when you think about the sorts of outrages, you know, we just celebrated the 250th. And so I'm sure many people were watching their favorite patriotic movies. and if you think about the sorts of things that got our forefathers to take action, you know, a penny tax on tea. But they saw the tyrannical jurisdictional claim being made,

and they said, we're going to fight it at the front end. And now you think about the outrages perpetuated on the American people or on the British people by their own governments with a kind of laissez-faire, ho-hum attitude. And you just think our forefathers were men of much greater courage, much greater fortitude, much greater action. And it ought to be the case that we should be thinking very creatively and deliberately about what actions we can take in order to prevent these kinds of outrages from coming to our country. And for the British, it's time for them. You know, I concluded my article with a poem by Kipling about how, you know, the British don't hate easily. The English people are slow to hate.

but when they do, watch out, right? It takes a lot to get them up. They're a very, you know, sort of stoic kind of people. But if they actually can recover some of that, the same mentality that, you know, the sun never set on the British Empire, that same sort of, we're a small island and we're going to take over the world.

If they recover any of that, then watch out. But we can pray that they do it and they do it righteously. That's right. Yeah, you talk about people who had the courage and they took action. They also had the foresight. They could see where this is headed. And it has been so disturbing to me to see really going back to 2020 when all this lockdown and insanity began with all that stuff.

It's like, can't people see where this is headed. And if you can't see where it's going, you're not going to get up and rise up against it. And once it gets established like a cancer, it's pretty hard to stop it. And that's where all the bloodshed comes after people experience it. But we're seeing right now in our societies the absolute contempt. And I'm talking about in America and Canada, throughout Europe and all the rest of the Western societies. We are seeing an absolute contempt from our leaders for all the things that were hard, fought, and won. Going back is basically an overturning of the Magna Carta.

Always back to that, you know, no trial by jury, no free speech, all these fundamental things that people who fought against that at the time of the American Revolution had experienced these types of abuses. we never experience these types of abuses. We don't pay attention to history, and we can't see what is coming now. And they're doing it, I think, at this point in time, Pastor Rigby, because I think they understand they've got this massive tool that's coming down the road. And they're just preparing themselves and everybody else for when they hit us with this hammer of full-on 24-hour surveillance with everything. I mean, they're going to have godlike powers of omnibus. presence, omnipotence, and, you know, omniscience in terms of everything that we're doing. And so they're going to see everything, know everything, and have all power with these types of tools that

are coming. And so they're just chomping at the bit to get started. Yeah. I think that the, the administrative state, the bureaucratic state, the total state, looks at the technologies coming down and they salivate. Oh, what can we do? What can we do with that? Our, as Christian, I think, the upside is the Lord knows how to frustrate the plans of the wicked. This is what God, this is what the Lord does from, from Babel on when they wanted to build that tower to heaven, the Lord knew how to frustrate the plans of the peoples. He's constantly casting down the proud and the thoughts of their hearts. I was just reading the Gospel of Luke that, you know, Mary's Magnificat, where, you know, he scatters the proud and the thoughts of their hearts. That's

what the Lord does. And so we can pray that the Lord would do that and act on our behalf. And And I think the other thing is I was just reading again for the 250th. I went back and read Calvin Coolidge's address to the nation on the 150th. So Coolidge was president at the 150th anniversary. And in it, it's a celebration of kind of the founding principles of the nation. Declaration of Independence, he focuses there on equality. You know, all men are created equal. They have rights from God and consent of the governed.

Those are the kind of the three sort of founding principles that he celebrated. But the actual, the note that he struck was those principles actually weren't unique. Philosophers had debated them. Europeans had talked about them. He said, what was unique about America is that those principles were a people had arisen. As we says, a people had arisen who embraced them and were willing to defend them, were willing to fight for them, and act upon them. And it was the character of the people.

He called, you know, there were a liberty-loving, God-fearing, independent, self-governing people. And he says, that was what was unique, was it was the combination of the principles and the people. It wasn't just the principles by themselves do nothing. They just float. But you need people who actually are willing to act upon them. And so he spends most of his address calling upon the American people to recover and maintain that same people. What kind of people are we? Are we this, are we that God-fearing people?

He talks about how the founding generation, the center of their lives was the meeting house, the church. They worshipped God, and they were a Christian people. They knew their Bibles. This is an amazing American president talking about how important it was that that founding generation were just saturated in the Bible. And it was their second, you know, it was just second nature to them to speak in biblical language. And so he says, that was the character of that people. And it was because of that that they could take these theoretical principles and actually build a government of checks and balances that required men to have, you know, that insisted on equality before the law

and so forth. And so when I read that, I just thought, man, we need that people again. We need to be that people. Like we need God to, we need a people to arise like that. That's one of the reasons that we, you know, do what we do in terms of our worship and our education. Christian education is so important because like you said, you mentioned you homeschooled your kids. If you don't shape and mold the next generation, they'll be shaped and molded by this white, culture that won't be that people. They won't be a God-fearing, independent, liberty-loving people. They'll just coast along like jellyfish.

That's right. And, you know, you walk along with them in the way, and when they see something, they ask you about it, you tell them what that's really about, and you give them the truth. Otherwise, if you're not there walking with him, somebody else, they'll turn to somebody else and say, what does that mean? And they'll say, well, that means it turn the wrong body. Something like that, you know? So that's the importance of that, and that is our God-given role.

But I really like what you said at the beginning of this, Pastor Rigney. And that is the fact that God has always come against the proud. And I have reported many times some of the things that these transhumanist billionaires when I set up a technocracy, I said, look at this. Look at how proud they are. Look at how they're flaunting their power in the face of God saying, we will be like God, right? And I said, that's great because now God's going to take care of that. It's kind of like when David went up to Goliath and he said, you know, you are attacking the God of this country.

He will take care of you. And I think that's the approach that we need to have. You know, we may need to be the ones who actually get the sling. It's God who's going to be guiding the stone. Right, exactly. Yeah, I may be small, but I found these five smooth stones. Right? Like, we may be small, but we have these smooth stones.

And that's where building alternative kinds of communities, communities of resilience, where people can live within the truth, raise their kids. Like this is, we're in a situation like Ezra Nehemiah where, you know, the city's been broken down, the walls have been destroyed, and we've been sent back. We live in the ruins of a once great civilization. That's right. And what should you do? You should establish worship of God. You should preach the word. used to start rebuilding that wall.

With a sword in one hand and a shovel in the other, build and fight, that's the call for American Christians at the present moment in our own communities. And that means being willing to take action and not simply retreat into an evangelical ghetto where we can kind of try to hope that the worst passes us by. Instead, we have to actually step forward and take real concrete action. I agree. And many people are starting to talk about how we have to build the society. from the bottom up because it is totally rotten at the top.

And, you know, many things like the Greek parable, the fish rots from the head down, that certainly is true of politics. But, you know, if we build this from the ground up, it kind of dawned on me the other day as I was talking to an author of Civil Defense Manual. And his name is Jack Lawson. And I've interviewed him many times. But this time when I was talking to him, he said, we were talking about the different dynamics, the group dynamics. In other words, he's not just about prepping and, you know, here's how

you shoot a gun and how you, you know, the kinds of weapons and tools that you need or the kind of supplies that you need. But his book focuses a lot on interpersonal relationships. So, you know, here you're going to put together a group of neighbors and everybody's going to have each other's back and you've all got maybe different types of skills and things like that. Not everybody is going to be everything. I mean, you have to have somebody there that can do medical stuff, maybe somebody who provides security, on and on. And so you start to put that together. And I thought, you know, that really is kind of a model for how we start to take back our society.

We don't have to wait for the grid down scenario or some kind of a massive storm or a war or civil war. We don't have to wait for that to start. We can start preparing and start rebuilding because things are already, as you pointed out, the walls are being broken down. And so now is the time to start building relationships, building skills, building communities. building community, I think, and doing that from the bottom up. That's right. And so our blueprint for this is, you begins with the worship of God. Worship is the heartbeat of every Christian community. If you honor God in worship, and then you ask Him, Lord, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

So we're going to worship you, God of heaven, and we're going to ask your kingdom to come. Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Bless our efforts. And then from there, it works out into your family, into Christian education, and then from there, into the wider community that you build. But a big part of that is just there's ways. If you want to get ready for that, do you know how to forgive sins? Do you know how to confess your sins? Because like you said, communities like that are going to need to be able to trust one

another, that you're going to need to be resilient. And so are you the sort of person who keep short accounts with your neighbors, with your wife, with your kids? Do you confess your sins regularly? And then do you know how to extend forgiveness when you're wronged? Like, that's bread and butter basic Christianity. And when you're talking about civilization, renewal, it's actually essential. Otherwise, you just have festering grievances in every direction.

Absolutely. Forgiveness of sins is fundamental to human societies. You can't function if you're constantly keeping track of rights and wrongs and who's done what to me and collecting grievances. It will all fall apart. And so instead, Christian communities preach the word, believe the gospel, and then live it out. That's absolutely right. And you know, I think of that, that I've mentioned many times, We have this kind of a Hatfield and McCoy's approach that happens in the Middle East and it just keeps the conflict going and going and going because there's never any forgiveness. There's never any like, okay, that's behind us now. Let's figure out what we're going to do to move ahead and have peace or something like that.

And that is what we have to do on a personal basis. You point out, if we can't forgive others and if others can't forgive us, we have really lost the heart of the gospel because that's what the gospel is about. And that is what these Marxists have tried to take away from us. They have tried to perpetuate this guilt and this sin and this keeping records of, you know, while he did this, I'll never forget that, you know, and I'll never forgive it. And so they have kept this thing going. And it's like a wound that you keep picking at and it keeps festering and bleeding. And they're the ones who come along.

And I guess in school you go to your DEI teacher and they see a scratch on you. And every day they go picket that wound, right? Yeah, that's exactly right. It's just, it's just great. And the thing is, is you're either going to build a culture around the forgiveness of sins, given in Christ that works its way out, or you build a culture based on grievances, which is all about different groups, collecting grievances against other groups, and then it's a fight.

It's like it is Hatfield's McCoy's. It's a dog fight over who's going to be the one to meet out the punishment. Yeah. That's what we see around the world. And that's what we're importing into our country, quite frankly. Like the immigration issue is fundamentally about are we importing people, bringing lots of people in who are not going to assimilate into our historic American, Protestant Christian society, which is what we had for, you know, 150 years. That was the core of America. And then people who came had to assimilate into that.

Now it's, no, you come and you form your own enclave. You have your own separate. And it just, and you have these power centers. And eventually, whether it's the Muslims in Michigan or the Somalis in Minnesota, the Hindus in Texas, you have these groups that are fundamentally in terms of their worldview, their values, their beliefs, their practices, they're not compatible. That's right. They're fighting each other in their home countries. Pakistan and India fight each other all the time.

You've got the Middle East. You have all of these places. And we think we can just import all of that conflict with no forgiveness of sins in sight, and everything will be fine. It's absolutely, it's insane. Yeah, they bring the war here. And they come in with a hierarchical structure. I've talked to when we celebrated the Declaration of Independence, I said that's a key Christian concept that all men are created equal, that there's not a caste system.

You don't have some ethnic chosen group that's going to lord it over everybody else. Everybody is equal in the side of God and in government. And they need to be treated appropriately if they do bad things. but you don't start setting priorities based on people's ethnicity. That is one of the most anti-American and anti-Christian things there is. And really it's Christianity that gives us a society that doesn't break people into ethnic groups and doesn't break people into a caste society because that is really the antithesis of Christianity. Right, yeah.

So for us to recover a strong confidence, assertive Christian faith as the American people is what will enable us to find our way out. Like that's the only way out. There isn't, it's just going to be further Balkanization and whether it ends up being a full balkanization of different tribes warring over the ruins or whether you get the technocratic omnicompetent state that runs our lives, like those are the two, you know, it's Babel or it's the book of judges. Like those are the bad options.

And I just want to say, there's another option. We could rebuild this civilization, a Christian civilization. We can rebuild Christendom beginning in our own homes and our own churches and our own communities. That's the need of the hour. That's right. Absolutely right. And along those lines, you've got another book that I'd like to touch on before we let you go if you've got time. And that's leadership and emotional sabotage.

Tell us a little bit about that. And of course, you've got group study guides that go along with these books as well, don't you? Yeah. Yeah, that book's about kind of the crisis and leadership in our homes, in our, you know, in marriages, in our churches and in the wider world, and kind of tries to identify the patterns and habits, biblical habits and patterns that lead to abdication, that lead to rebellion and that lead to blame shifting. So that's kind of like what I'd call the Adam pattern. So Adam neglects his responsibility. He doesn't guard and protect his wife. when the serpent approaches her. Then he commits idolatry. He chooses her over God. I'll listen to her voice, do what she says rather than what God said.

And then when God shows up and calls into account, he just points the finger and says, the woman that you gave me, she did it. Okay? So that pattern is played out. And like we mentioned earlier, the story of Aaron and the Golden Cap. It's the same story, right?

He listens to the voice of the people, does what they say, makes the idol, and then blames them. The people, you know the people, Moses. And this pattern shows up again and again and again. in the Bible as kind of the sinful pattern of leadership. And what I'm trying to argue for is a contrast to that, where you take responsibility for what God is entrusted to you,

beginning with yourself. And that's what enables you to resist the various kinds of emotional sabotage that will come if you're a sober-minded, courageous leader. So the leadership that I commend in the book is sober-mindedness as a kind of core virtue, which I define as clarity of mind, a stability of soul and a readiness to act. So your clarity of mind means you see things clearly, you know what's required of you, you know who God is, you know what you're called to do,

you have a stability of soul, you're not tossed by your emotions, you're not tossed by the emotions of others, that's the sin of empathy stuff, you're not letting the emotions of others sway and cloud your judgment, there's stability, and then you're ready to act, you're ready to, okay, God, what do you want me to do? And that kind of sober-minded leadership is what's missing in so many areas from our homes to our pastors, to our national leaders. And so it's basically a short, you know, blueprint for recovering sober-minded leadership to resist the kinds of sabotage that leaders face today. Yeah, you know, this week I talked about an article out of The New York Post,

which is, you know, associated with the Republican Party and, quote, conservatives, I don't know what they're trying to conserve, because this New York Post article had a take that was very one-sided and very critical of traditional families by calling the wives trad wives, which is really just kind of an influencer label that's out there. And as I said, they're getting their idea of what marriage and a wife is like out of TikTok instead of out of the Bible. But in that, the woman that they began talking to, she described a situation where the husband was just domineering and dominating. And I said, well, you know, that's not really the relationship

that God has decided for a marriage at all. And a very unhealthy relationship. But they used that to put forward a feminist view and of, you know, anti-marriage, anti-family, anti-child. It was really amazing to see that. I guess I shouldn't be amazed. I just didn't expect that because they they basically sell to a constituency that doesn't have those values, but they're being used to sell those values because the people aren't going to look at something's written by Washington Post or New York Times, but if it's the New York Post, they'll read that, and that's how they can get that through. And so I'm assuming that your book, Leadership and Emotional Sabotize, that also reflects on marriage in that relationship as well, doesn't it?

Yeah, it does. And it basically, well, part of the thing is the question is not, whether the husband will be the head. The Bible doesn't teach that the husband should be the head of his home. It teaches that he is. So it's not a question of whether he'll be the head. He is the head. It's just a question of what kind will he be. It will be a faithful one like Jesus was.

Or will be an unfaithful one like Adam was. That's the basic question. But his headship is sort of a basic fact of reality. Patriarchy is unavoidable, quite frankly. It's just that's the way God made the world. And so you either get faithful patriarchy where husbands know themselves to be, under authority, under the authority of God, seeking to model themselves after Christ.

You get faithful patriarchy, or you get demented patriarchy, right? You get men pretending to be women. Yeah. And women pretending to be men. Yeah, you get all the confusion. It's still patriarchal. It's still, it's just demented patriarchy. It's just sinful patriarchy.

You can get the domineering or the abdicating patriarchy. But one way or another, that's just the way the world is. And as Christians, we need to embrace that. Embrace that that's the way God made the world, that it's good for us. And not worry so much about, if I was to point at some of the things on the conservative side on this side of the pond, the UK should repent of its multiculturalism, so should we. We also need to repent of all the feminism that we've imbibed all the way down. Like there's so much underneath the service.

And even the Republican Party, I think, on this is trying to just be, they just want to be a little bit pregnant. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, absolutely. Yeah, I said when I talked about, you know, God never made a creature with two heads. That's right. And there's not two heads in the family, but that's not really even what they're after. The matriarchy wants to replace the patriarchy. So it isn't that they want to be co-equal. They want to dominate. And that's what the feminists want. But they, over and above that, they don't even want a family. So, you know, I guess the headship part of that takes a second chair to whether or not you even want to have a family. That's the real thing, I think, is that they have poisoned that. We always see at times of revival that the Bible will say that God turns the hearts of the fathers to the children.

Well, at this point in time, we better start praying they turns the hearts of the mothers to the children. Because they've been turned away from that, haven't they? Yeah, no, it's very true. The political divide, the young single women who have just drifted left because basically nature abhors a vacuum. And if you're going to teach people that if a woman wants to get married, and to be a mom. If that's her ambition, if she has that wholly high ambition to be a wife and a mom, that's mocked, derided in every aspect of our culture. Well, it doesn't mean that she, a woman still has the natural desire to have someone take care of her and to be, to provide for her.

And so instead of looking for it in a husband who's covenanted to her, she looks for it in the state. Yeah. She looks forward to, you know, instead of saying, getting married to her husband, she gets married to the government. I agree. And then they know that. And they know that. And they know that. Yeah, so they, and they begin to answer. That's who's going to provide all the needs. And then they're going to try to confiscate every aspect of, you know, those who live by the old ways, the traditional family, is going to be basically a big pot of money that they can confiscate

in order to redistribute it to provide all of their wives, all of their unmarried, childless cat ladies that now, you know, and they still have that mothering instinct. I think this is a major element. This is dovetailing back to the center. of empathy thing. It's feminine empathy, feminine empathy that enables so many of these pathologies in our society, whether it's for criminals, whether it's for illegal aliens. The female empathy, unguided by reason, unguided by what's true and good in the scriptures, becomes highly

destructive. And you see these bizarre situation. I mean, it's an amazing thing to watch, say, again, in the UK, women defending these illegal immigrants, they've let them in. they're raping their women, and rather than sort of mama bear kicking in and saying, no way, no how, they defend the very people who are committing these horrific crimes. It's just, it's a shocking inversion of everything natural and good. Especially when they are unlying to be a victim. You know, when you mention that, the fact that the government comes in and is the father, this is something we've always talked about in conservative and libertarian circles,

that the government is always looking to create dependence. and they do it in a very soft way. Well, here's some public transportation. Oh, by the way, now we're going to put some more restrictions on your private car, something like that. And so they're always looking for a way in which they can have, be the dominant provider, whether you're talking about transportation or housing or welfare or whatever.

They're looking to be the provider. And how did that manifest itself? Well, when they started doing that in the poor communities, the black communities, You've got a lot of people like Thomas Sol and others who have pointed out that, you know, that means that the family breaks up and there isn't a real incentive. The financial incentive to stay together is removed. And sometimes you need that through difficult times. But that's all removed. And you wind up with all these fatherless homes and the pathologies that come from that.

And that is something they're now extending out as a courtesy to everybody, isn't it? Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the democratic path to permanent political power is essentially a large welfare state that becomes a slush fund for their client classes. So, you know, we're going to, you blow it the government, and it's just a big slush fund. We're going to pay off all the people that vote for us.

And then if their policies are so destructive that Americans won't vote for them, we'll just import people from the around the world. Yes. So immigration to create new client classes and we'll pay them off. That's what was going on in Minnesota with all the Somali front. It's like, well, we're going to secure the votes of every Somali for generations by paying them to have, you know, medical companies with no clients and daycares with no kids. But we'll give them millions of dollars of taxpayer money to secure their votes. And then you add the third step is lax voting laws to where, you know, you don't know how many votes do we need?

Well, we'll tell you after election day. You know, how many people voted? We'll know it. We'll know later. And it's those three steps. Big government bloat as a slush fund to pay off client classes and importing illegal immigrants and lacks voting laws. That's how you turn every state into California. That's how you turn every state into New York, every state into Illinois.

And every red state needs to be doing everything it can to counteract that across the board. Yeah. They've even wargame this. I mean, go back and the economist Cloward and Piven strategize that. They said, you know, the welfare state just isn't expanding quickly enough. If we expand the welfare state, we can bankrupt everything and we can be in charge. And so they said, so let's bring in some more immigrants. They'll go on welfare and that'll accelerate this collapse.

They're looking to collapse society. Collapse society is really Machiavellian and cynical what these people are doing. But it is very deliberate and it is a long-term plan that they've been doing. And what they seek to do is to collapse our society in multiple ways, morally, economically, you name it. And culturally, they're collapsing the society. And we have to stand in the gap. And we have the tools that are mighty, don't we?

We have prayer and we have Christ and God on our side if we are on his side. And that's the key thing. And we should not despair about this, but we ought to be optimistic. And like I said, when I see these guys boasting about their political power and boasting about their new Tower of Babel that they're creating, it encourages me. because I know I'm not in this battle alone, and that's really what we need to take away as Christians. Thank you so much for joining us, Pastor Joe Rigney. And again, you can find his books at canonpress.com.

And a couple of them that we've mentioned here are the sin of empathy and leadership and emotional sabotage. And he has study guys that go along with that, so you can do that as a study group. If you've got a group of friends that are getting together and studying things together, that's always a good thing to do. Or you can do it as some study group as part of your church. But I think it's great to have a study guide to go along with these concepts, because these are key. If we don't have leadership,

and if we aren't aware of the Christian antidote to these types of Marxist tactics that are being brought to bear, we're going to be a victim of them. And so thank you so much for your book, and thank you for joining us today. Thanks for reading me. Thank you very much. Thank you.

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