The David Knight Show - Interview: Clyde Lewis: UFO Disclosure or the Ultimate Psyop?

Episode Date: May 22, 2026

Clyde Lewis of Ground Zero, back after nearly six months of hospitalization from kidney failure and dialysis, joins David Knight for a wide-ranging conversation on the Trump administration's accelerating UFO breadcrumb campaign — and Lewis's three-decade assessment is that disclosure won't be identification, it'll be another interpretation, another costume on an old god. The deeper thread running through the conversation is the replacement of transcendence with technology: Lewis draws a straight line from the medieval concept of the demonic to the alien, from the alien to AI, and argues that people surrendering judgment to artificial intelligence are committing the same category error as someone treating an Ouija board as an oracle.Money should have intrinsic value AND transactional privacy: Go to https://davidknight.gold/ for great deals on physical gold/silver For 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to https://trendsjournal.com/ and enter the code “KNIGHT” For high quality made in America products go to HomeSteadProducts.shop and use promo code “Knight” for 10% off your purchases Find out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.com If you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-show Or you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @[e-mail] App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-david-knight-show--2653468/support.

Well, as we all know, the dropping of breadcrumbs from the Trump administration about UFOs is really accelerating. We don't have a day go by that we don't have either some phony meme from Trump or something else that is coming out there. And so the question is, what is really behind all of this? Is this simply a distraction? Is there something else? What do people think who have been following this for a very long time? All right, joining us now is Clyde Lewis. And I'm sure you've heard Clyde.

He's been on radio for quite a while. I had a very wide network that was out there. You can find him still at ground zero.com, and he's also got a special, I think it's a subscription service. Is that correct, Clyde? Ground Zero Plus is out there? Yeah, we have a subscription service called Ground Zeroplus.com, but what we have done is not only can you subscribe to past shows

and some of my past appearances on, you know, nightclub tours and things that I've done in the past. You can listen to a full network that's free. All you got to go to the site, Ground Zero Plus.com, and we've got all kinds of many personalities, including you, you're on there. We have many personalities that are there on the network so you don't lose a show.

You can hear a variety of shows right there at Ground Zero Plus. We're very happy to have you on board. We had a very successful interview with John B. Wells and several other people. So I think that, you know, we got a lot of great people that want to be a part of the network because they're forcing our hand. This is the whole idea behind the first, I guess you can call the what we call inclination of the show or the creation of the network, but it fell. And so then we've rebuilt it. And now it's serving its purpose because of the way we're seeing other talk shows being attacked.

We're seeing other talk shows that empires are now like Ben Shapiro and others are falling apart. And we wanted to avoid that by banning together some of the great storytellers and news filers out there and put them under one umbrella so you can listen to them all at once. And I think that's going to be the future is that we have to band together. Otherwise, we're going to go together down into who knows what. So that's why we did it. That's great. And so, yeah, I'm pleased to be on there. Again, that is ground zero.

You spell out the zero and you spell out the plus.com. And that's where you can go to find out about that. And Clyde has been very kind to have me on several times as a guest. It's always a difficult thing for me to do because he would be broadcasting live from the West Coast late at night. And so it was super late at night for me. But I always appreciated coming on. It's always entertaining to be a part of the program as well. You always have great programs.

Well, you give me credibility. You know, that's the whole point. David Knight on because he gives me credibility. I associate with cool. people. Well, you've had some health issues lately. You've had some health issues lately. Let's talk a little bit about that because a lot of people have asked about that. You know, how is Clyde? And, you know, I know that you're recovering. So tell us a little bit about that. You've been gone for a little while. Yeah, I haven't gone since November. This is the longest I've ever had to be hospitalized.

Because many people know that I've had, I'm resilient. I've bounced back from near death. And people say, well, if you'd lose weight, that's not the point. The point is I gained weight because I've been near death. I've been having kidney problems. I had kidney cancer in 2007, 2008. I had to revisit the doctors again because they had removed more tumors. So my kidneys basically got carved up really well. And I've got about three-fourths kidneys on each side, keeping me pumping and living.

Well, that didn't work out just before Thanksgiving when I collapsed from kidney failure. It was really, I had never experienced anything like that in my life. Kidney failure is just a weird way to get close to dying. And I didn't realize this, but I learned a lot about kidneys and toxifying. And sometimes the kidneys are too toxic, which is what happens when you have kidney failure, you start hallucinating. And so I had some very wild hallucinations while recovering.

being on dialysis for about four days. Did you meet the aliens that, did you meet the aliens that Trump owns the nerdy that's us too? Actually, you know, I met the demons that have always been under my bed. I always saw people joking. I have demons under my bed, but there really were this time. And it was like when I woke up, everything was like kind of like moving together,

like one of those little puzzles we used to play with in school. And it was very difficult. In fact, there were many times the nurses told me that I was, called 911 and tell them to give me out of hospital because I didn't belong here. So, yeah, it's, and you have to learn how to walk again because you, you actually have water built up in your body. And apparently when they found me, they had to take, it was like 20 liters out of my body sign.

So, I mean, I don't know how I survived that, but I did. Well, it's difficult anytime you're in a bed. Yeah. Yeah, anytime you're in the bed for a extended period time like it was when I had my stroke, it really takes a lot out of you. I couldn't walk for quite a while. And even after I started walking, and even today, I feel very weak and many times have difficulty with balance. And so that's the issue is this long bed rest. It really takes a toll on you as well.

But I wanted to get you on because. You're right. Yeah. I want to get you on and talk about this UFO stuff because I know that you covered that quite a bit. It's not somewhere where I hang out, but it is, they are constantly, not a day goes by that we don't get some memes or some trolling from Trump or somebody in the administration about the aliens are coming and all the rest of this stuff. What do you make out? You've covered this beat for a very long time. What do you make out of all this stuff?

Well, the funny thing is, is that I've covered this beef for, you know, 30 or so years, 31 years. And I remember back in the day, I was crazy, Clyde. Now I'm not crazy anymore. And it's like, but the problem is it's not like I had planned it. It's not like I had imagined it back 30 years ago when I was talking about this. I was talking about, you know, what this would do to humanity. How would we deal with it? I mean, I based everything off of Arthur C. Clark's Childhood Zen.

I don't know anybody read any of that. I read that book, but that book pretty much gives a, a signed, a science fiction geniuses take on what would happen if we found out aliens existed. And it would be like, you know, what happened with religion, what would happen with all these other things. And what I learned over time was, you know, while everybody is still worried about whether or not aliens would destroy the government, we all have to come together as one new world order under the Antichrist or whatever they want to talk about. It's not about that per se. It's about the shift of putting a new costume on an old God.

And I think that's what people are concerned with. I don't think that this whole idea of disclosure is going to be anything but an interpretation, just one more interpretation of the government. And even then when they released the documents, they didn't release anything unidentified. And I think what people were expecting was identified. It's like, oh, the other. identified flying object cases have been but what we want is we want identified we want the government to identify them we want the government to tell us what they are we want

the government to warn us if they're hostile we want the government to warn us that we all like to throw our hands in the air and go join the Martians or whatever and I think that what's going on is after you know more than 60 or 70 years of indoctrination I think it's a majority of Americans and a majority of people who religious who can pretty much weigh both of them together at the same time. I mean, the hard part would be the idea of, like I said, putting a costume, a new costume on an old God. I think that's what science has been doing for some time, taking science and saying, follow science, forget God. And so you have all of these people running around saying, well, aliens are demons, aliens are

demons. No, they're not demons. I mean, demons are spiritual beings, and I stick by that. I think that, we can have incarnate demons that could be coming down and flying saucers by highly doubt it. The thing that I think people need to understand is that when they're dealing with something like this, it's hard to tell the difference between what an alien encounter would be like as opposed to a spiritual encounter. Meaning that if an angel came down tomorrow in a big bright light and told you to come to heaven with him and you did that, it's no different than a big giant gray coming down out of the sky and invite you to go to heaven with it. It's the same experience, although you put a different costume on it. It was just the idea of how we costume this. And so far, they haven't put

anything on. But I think that if you want to take it to the extreme, what they would probably do if they were to do anything at all is they would probably turn the nails or turn the screws in favor of saying that perhaps the aliens were the Old Testament gods and that we need to understand that, you know, all the things we read in the Old Testament and the Bible is, I mean, and they don't, well, they won't touch the New Testament because that's, of course, where Christianity has all this stuff. And like I say, any of these alien things that get revealed have nothing to do with your salvation.

And they won't have any view, as long as they don't tinker with Jesus. If they're tinkering with Jesus and say that he's an alien, there is, uh, uh, atlimate was not, uh, was not divine or what have you. They're killing Christianity. But they go back and they say, well, take a link to the history of the gods. You take a look at the way they treated the Hebrews and how they treated the Egyptians and what happened such marbles with Egyptian magic and Moses and all this stuff. Enoch, people love to go back and talk about Enoch, which isn't canon, by the way.

But they go back and they try to talk about Enoch and they talk about all this stuff. They talk about Genesis 6, where there are these titans that came down out of the sky and had sex with the women at a time. We talk about Sodom and Gomorrah where a bunch of, quote, angels or aliens came in, laid a city to waste. And it was kind of like a nuclear explosion thing compared to it. But again, that's putting a costume, a new costume on an old concept. And so he took the new costume of aliens and put that on a concept to read the Old Testament, I really don't think you'd find a difference.

I mean, you know, chariots of fire, put a new costume on, put a new costume on the cherries. of fire, you have a UFO. Wheel in the sky, Ezekiel sees a wheel in the sky. Let's put a new costume on that. What you have is you have a bona fide flying saucer with beings that were in there that look like eagles and, and, uh, bulls and all this stuff. It's all being described in the Bible, but you put a new costume on it and it'll take a while to program people.

As in the book, uh, you know, you was a book, uh, child those end, it took a hundred years. to reprogram people to accept the look of what the aliens look like. And what's really ironic about that is that every Christian that's out there saying that aliens are demons, they would have everything they say be, they say, well, see, even in the childhood then, you're dealing with the demon alien thing. And I won't do it away, but it's still an irony that I laugh at because I'm fighting like hell to say, I don't like putting peas with my potato. You know, I don't like, I don't like doing the teas and potatoes.

I like to separate them. And so what I do is I tend to say, well, I don't want my aliens and my demons to be the same thing. I just don't want that. I want it to be different in that way. And so I guess people take it, but a lot of people won't. They'll just say, and I say to them, look, the only thing I got going for me on this is that back when Jesus was with demoniac in the Bible, he didn't pass out aliens, okay? He cast out demons from that demoniac, and the demons were spiritual. The demons were spiritual beings.

And they demanded to be put into pigs because they didn't have a body. And so that's the thing is that if they cast out the demons in the Bible and cast them into aliens, that would be a different story altogether, but they didn't. You know, it's interesting, especially when you mentioned about childhood Zen. Now, I did not read the book by Arthur C. Clark, but I did see, the sci-fi series that they did. And Charles Dance was the actor that they had there. And they made him up to look like a kind of medieval representation of Satan, right?

So he's got the red costume. Yes, that's exactly. And it's pretty amazing. Exactly what it's like in the book. Yeah. I tell people if you, you know, just look it up even on Google and a childhood. And it is amazing how they made him up. Of course, they did it in a way, he said, took a very long time for them, put makeup on all the time.

But he was still able to come across as an actor that he was able to, even with all that makeup on, he was able to act. And it is the stereotypical medieval representation of Satan. He's got the tail, the clothed hooves. He's red. He's got the big horns and all the rest of the stuff. The wings. Yeah, exactly.

And so, you know, they come from this planet that is continuous fire and everything. So when we look at it, Arthur C. Clark is trying to combine these elements of these traditions together in a kind of synthesis type of way. And there we go. We got the picture of it, Lance put up, what he looks like. And I referred to that when I've talked about. I talked about this about a decade ago at a conference where they're talking about a lot of UFOs. And that was my take on it. But there's another aspect of this as well. And that is the, I think it's DMT, where people take this drug and they say they see,

Sheen elves and things like that. Yeah. I'd like to get your take on that because a lot of people, they see something that is very, very similar when they take this drug. Even to the extent that some of them are saying, hey, we're going to call ourselves psychonauts instead of astroauts. Yeah. And we're going to document what we encounter there. And some of them are saying, hey, we're getting information from these beings and so forth. What do you make of that?

It's funny you should bring it up because I was just watching a lecture the other day. day about how what if they were to tell you that the aliens are not from outer space. That would make it even more terrifying. And the reason why is because what it would be is it would be interdimensional, an ultra-trestrial. In other words, they're with us all the time. We just don't see them. And unless we can open up a patch of our brain, it opens up to that seeing it,

then, you know, they're with us so they can cause all kinds of problems that we can blame on you know, fate miracles or what have you. And I think that's kind of an interesting point because, you know, a lot of the realms that are unseen are considered spiritual realms,

interdimensional realms. And now with quantum physics, we go into deeper, you know, threads of string theory and we keep going to dark matter. And it's just breaking things down to the point where

are you going to run out of things to break down. And in there somewhere is aliens or ghosts or whatever. If you've ever seen the movie Interstellar, you'll know what I'm talking about because it's funny how he becomes his own ghost as he's going through the black hole. And that's called superposition. And what that is is that you can be in two places at one time. And so can be aliens and so good. And so that's even more terrifying that they can appear like all of a sudden everywhere all at once. And this is where you get your definite alien invasion of some holographic thing they're making up in conspiracy circles.

you'll have this simultaneous appearance of these aliens or these simultaneous experiences that people have all at once, like all the phones could be ringing at once, or something else that they can do, that they can, you know, flip a few switches on the planet and immediately they have control of it all. And that's something that I think that you could go back that many people still believe in, and that's fairies and the fairy folk and the little people. And how, like, you go to Iceland in those places, they still believe in elves. They believe in those creatures.

They live in the forest. They live in the woods. Then you go from there, you go, you know, Santa Claus is the first fairy person. And then you go to it, crampus, and you go down the list of all these gnomes. And so then you've got, you come from there to the dwarves. And then from the dwarves, you've got leprechauns. From leprechauns, you've got aliens. or something. They're little green men or their little gray men and they're taking kids or

whomever into their caves and then they don't see them again. So it's the same story. Again, take the costume, change the costume and put it on another character and you have the same character. So somewhere out there we have in our subconscious mind, aka machine elves when you're taking DMT, that's in our mind and it's there and the only way that it happens we see, see it is when something touches a certain part of our brain. And so it becomes interdimensional extraterrestrial. And that's, I think, more frightening in space, because if it comes from space, we know that we can control them. As it comes from interdimensional realities, there's no telling what they can do. They have no, they have no handle on what the earth keeps it from doing.

That's right. That's right. And I've heard many people who are secular scientists say, well, I don't think it'd be interdimensional beings. If you look at, you know, how long they have to travel. I mean, once we get out of the confines of, you know, three-dimensional space or even the fourth dimension of time and things like that, once we get out of those confines, it does really get kind of frightening. And yet, as you point out, there is this tradition of a lot of people who have encountered things like this. And, of course, how do we perceive this? How do we put a context on this? As a Christian, my context is going to be in the Bible. But, you know, when we look at this,

clearly there is something that is supernatural that is above nature that we experience in our dimension. And so we've got a lot of people saying, well, maybe we live in a simulation. Maybe these are interdimensional beings and so forth. And the answer is, yeah, really, because when you look at this, I just read a testimony of an individual who is an atheist, who was a quantum, working on quantum physics. And it was because of the strange things that he was saying, that he, started that he became a Christian ultimately. He started looking for answers as to how does this all

fit together? And so I don't necessarily think that, you know, depending on where you're coming from, if you see this, if you've got a perspective, where you're viewing the world, what your worldview is, from your perspective, does this make sense? Does it break the paradigm of the Bible? And I don't think it does. What it does is it just looks at it from a different angle, perhaps. But the real world view, if you're a Christian, it's still going to be based on the Bible, and there's nothing in any of that stuff that really directly contradicts that in terms of a created order. Well, look at all the costumes. Look at all the costumes God has for different religions that exist, right?

You've got Allah, you've got Jehovah, you've got what, you've got Ishtar Vishnu, you've got all these other gods, you've got Buddha, and you've got them all there, all with different costumes, all with different names. You say, well, they're different. Well, maybe they are, maybe they aren't different. See, that's the thing is that what you're getting into now is we're getting into the idea that we have to change the way. We have to change the Hallmark card version of God and religion and put it more toward the scientific view. And I can tell you now that even though in Arthur C. Clark's book, he said two things were destroyed when the aliens arrived.

One was science and the other one was religion. And the reason why is because people were so fascinated by the aliens, they didn't want to study any more science. And it was so fascinated by the aliens, they didn't care if God existed. They ignored God. Now, that's what you have to worry about. You have to worry about the fact whether or not the aliens come and people start ignoring God because that's the way you kill God is you ignore him. You want to kill a God, just ignore it.

That's how it works. But here's the thing. Christianity has lasted 2,000 years and they've had several other different costumes put on God's Jesus and what have you, from Mithras to Odin to Loki to whomever. They all have different costumes of different names from a story. all seem to be patterned after the same story. And we keep telling the story over and over again with different variations. So this is just one more variation that we add to the pile.

And there's nothing wrong with entertaining it. It's just whether or not you decide you're going to give your life to the aliens. And then you start running into, you know, religious arguments about whether or not there are gods. But, you know, quite frankly, everything that's happening, if it's not ultraterrestrial, it's extraterrestrial. So that, therefore, a being that's controlling everything from out there in heaven is an extraterrestrial. We die, we go to heaven. Why is that? Because that's where we came from.

We came from heaven. We're going back to going back into space because that's where we're going to end up again in the presence of the major force, which would be God, or the grand order of developers, G-O-D, God. And that's just, again, one more costume that we put on to, to cover or tell the same story again. Yeah, when I look at it, it's very much like the flood story. You know, there's so many different flood stories from different civilizations. And, you know, when you look at all of these and you look at different elements of it, you know, you've got the Chinese have the flood story and many of the aspects of Genesis

are reflected in a lot of the picture characters that they use, of course. And so they have something for a large ship. It's like a little boat with eight people in it, you know, just like Noah's boat. And on and on. And they have things that refer back to the Garden of Eden and stuff like that. And so when you look at that, it's like, well, okay, so I think these things are all based on something that is true. The question is, which of these costumes is accurate and which of the stories is accurate? Perhaps, you know, it certainly is, you would have to admit there's a possibility that the true story did propagate through.

and that these other things are variations that have drifted on that. And so I think, you know, as a Christian, that's the worldview from where I look at these different things. It doesn't rack my faith to see the story of Gilgamesh. It's like, well, that's kind of similar to Genesis I could see where if this is true, you would have a, you know, you would have one story that would propagate straight through, and you have all these other ones that are minor variations of it with a different spin on it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. You read through the Iliad and you read through The Odyssey and read all these old books. And you tend to see some duplication, you know, in the Bible. You see duplication. And it's because everything, I mean, hell, you look at Star Wars and can make comparisons to Star Wars and the religions of today. So they put different costume on them. Instead of Satan, you have the Dark Father, which is Darth Vader.

You have all of these different characters in the Matrix. it's another religious type of look of the chosen one and the chosen one is able to go in and make different changes to the matrix. I mean, these stories continue and continue and continue. Now, we're not going to be around long enough to see how these stories evolve in 500 years. I can imagine within 500 years of time, these stories could eventually or certainly become religions. And, you know, that could happen. Yeah, absolutely. And you look at the secular approach of this or the atheistic approach of this.

They will say, well, you know, the story of Christ and redemption and rebirth and resurrection and things. We've seen that in stories that were older from another culture or something. So this is changed and plagiarized from that. But the reality is that in a sense, you know that in the Bible, clearly the other side, Satan understands that this is something that is going to happen in some way, shape, or form. doesn't have it exactly clear. And so it would make sense that there would be some other versions of that that would be out there to push against it. I mean, the film critic Brian Godawa, who is a Christian, and he actually did a very interesting

film. It was called to End All Wars, I think, I don't know if you ever saw that or not. But he says in his film critics, especially criticisms, and especially in terms of just writing about stories in general, he said, there's always this redemption theme. that is always there and it's just fixed and he said you look at it and you can basically find it in any story that's out there and it's what makes a story good because it really reflects the reality the the greater reality that is there so there are some commonalities that are there that are based in reality i believe and we've been we've seen versions of the true story that

have evolved and changed we have the true story that perhaps has been deliberately corrupted in some ways. And so that's the way I look at all of this, this UFO stuff that is out there. Is my son who's, Lance, who's doing the board right now, said, when do we get the IFO files, the identified flying objects? Yeah. Yeah, so they know what they are. So these little dots and saying, ooh, isn't that weird? Yeah, well, we've been saying, oh, isn't that weird for 70 years? What's also interesting is the timing of movies. They're going to have this disclosure day. Oh, yeah. And that's what they're saying would be the time that Trump will just come right out and say,

oh, by the way, we're being visited, we've been visited, that kind of thing. I don't think that's going to happen. I don't think the religion is going to be turned on its ear. I don't believe any of that's going to happen. All that panic of aliens or demons and all this stuff. I think people need to realize that we need to grow up and understand that over time, things change. Ideas change. And those ideas are not dangerous.

those ideas are there to be heard, and then you can choose whether or not they're real. And if people choose to see that they're real, or they choose to change, or they want to go to a quantum Bible, if they want to go to a quantum way of thinking of Jesus in a quantum way, that's what's going to happen. Eventually it's going to happen because new information is going to come out. And I said on another show, I said, here's something else. Here's the thing about church and religion that people don't understand. Religion is all based on faith. So if you're looking for something to prove that what you've been doing all along worshipping God is factual, then you have no reason

for religion. Because religion is faith. And if you have a knowledge of it, you say, oh, I have proof of God, and here it is. And you've got a picture of God like standing there, you know, holding his hands out, you know, in a robe, you look like Barry Gibb. Yeah, okay, you got a picture of God. But I'm just saying that, you know, that takes. your faith right there. It's no faith. There's no hope. There's nothing. There's all this truth.

You know, I got the truth. Well, no, you have a very interesting way of interpreting what you see is there. And you have faith that your words are going to somehow touch other people because that's what spirituality is about. That's what the continuity of the story is about. You need the continuity of the word, the continuity of, in many cases, the Bible, the continuity of the Talmud. continuity to Quran. They need to keep that going because those stories are important to our lives. And those stories aren't going to change. They're just going to evolve over time and put on a different costume. I think people need to understand that we're living in those times right now. And they really don't have to feel threatened. They just have to understand that it happens sometimes.

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, it is when we look at faith, as Paul defined it, That's the substance of things that are hoped for, right? And when he talks about hope, that word is not like, you know, we use it today, modern usage of hope. Like, well, I certainly hope so, but I don't think that's going to happen. You usually put that there. It's like a wishful thinking or something. No, hope for them was confident expectation. And so we have a confident expectation because we have evidence of things that are unseen.

So there is an unseen world. and Christians have always understood that. But we see that there are evidences in the real world of that. I mean, even when we look at the ancient people, look at the stars, for example, there was a pattern that they could discern. We have a lot more evidence of things unseen today when we look at our bodies, for example,

when we look at DNA. And so you got Crick and Watson who discovered DNA, and it's like, okay, well, there's obviously intelligence that has created this and put this together. There's obviously design and intelligence right here. This is a code and so forth. But we've got to rule out that there's a God of the Bible. So we'll create panspermia.

And we'll say that this is aliens who came here and created this. So again, you get back to somebody's worldview, which is going to drive the way they interpret the evidence that they see. And that's going to be how they explain the things that are unseen, which we really understand are there. For me... For me, pansfermia proves God. That's one of the things that I, one of my pet topics is pansevermia.

And I always said to myself, you know, pansevermia to be proves that God was like Johnny Appleseed, you know, and that single-celled organisms and whatever traveled on, you know, little asteroids and hit the planet. I mean, it kind of reminds me of, you know, when we were in help class. And they always show us the cervix, right? You see what looks like a planet. It's this bright white where the egg is. And there's this bright white area. And then you see this little squiggly thing that's a sperm that's going to penetrate that egg. And what it looks like to me is planet Earth with a little comet coming down and it's going to penetrate that egg.

And it's the same, I mean, like again, a different costume for a different idea. And, you know, you try to express that. Some people think you're crazy. But, I mean, you just put on different lenses for different things. And I think that if you tear away the, I always say the Hallmark card version of everything, as I know a lot of people have these idealistic views of what it's all about. They don't realize that when Jesus died, it was a violent death. They don't realize that a lot of blood and guts were being torn apart to become, you know,

Christian or being persecuted as the Hebrews were or whatever. It was some pretty ugly stories. So what happens, you'd come along and you have the Renaissance where they're putting a costume on everything. You get to see what Jesus looks like. He's a bearded guy and whatever. And then there are people that say, well, I want to be a purist. I don't think Jesus looked like that at all. And in fact, I'm not going to call him Jesus.

I'm going to call him Yahweh. Or I'm going to do this. It's like, again, they're trying to put a costume on something so that they can be unique and understood. And I think that's the same thing with aliens, except science is doing that. Science, the halfway point between God and the rest of everything else is aliens. or a group of scientists that are advanced, more advanced than we are.

Like I said, a grand order of developers or God, GOD, and they're there, and they've developed this planet, they develop other planets, they're pan-spermia, other planets, and they're all in waiting to become planets of civilizations on them. Everyone is evolving into the next phase or into the next loop. And so I think that's one of the reasons why you're not going to get much from the government is because I think they don't know. I think they're a lot. I mean, they know the material.

They know what they see and they know what they've heard from, you know, some of the reports, but they really don't know what they're dealing with. Yeah. And it's because they think they're so superior-minded that, you know, it's like if Jesus was to walk in and said, download Donald Trump, just say, oh, by the way, I'm coming next week and we're going to destroy the planet and all the evil people. What's your answer?

And he'd say, oh, I don't know, maybe global thermonuclear war. Do you think that would work? You know, it's just how they think. Yeah. Don't think along the lines of miracles, in my opinion, I mean, one of the things I loved about doing my show back 30 years ago was I was such, you know, an, what was it, idealistic miracle guy. You know, everything that happened was a miracle. Now for some reason miracles happen and they're from Satan. And I never, that's how things have evolved since I first started with.

You know, you could talk about aliens and you could say they're miracles. You can talk about paranormal activity and like ghosts appearing in the road. It's a miracle. Now, as you say, well, that's some of the devil, five. I can tell you words of the devil's, you know. And I'm like, no, I mean, don't you believe in, you know, basic magic? Well, no, magic is witches. No, no, no, magic is like the force.

I mean, do you think the forces being carried out by witches? I mean, it's just, like I say, different costumes for different ideas. And I think we need to learn that and mature in that rather than freaking out and panicking and saying, oh, this is a distraction from the Epstein files. Oh, no, we all sound like whining little kids who aren't getting our way with regard to these files. And I think there may be some distractions out there, but it's not from the Epstein files. I can tell you that right now. Well, you know, it is interesting when we look at this.

I don't have any, as a Christian, I don't have any concern about something that is immaterial and then material, you know, going back and forth. And so the fact that they are finding, you know, if they find something that is material that they can produce and that they can hold, to me, that is just, you know, it doesn't really mean anything to me. When you look at the story of Christ after his resurrection, he's appearing to the disciples. And he is, you know, transporting from one place to the other. he is eating with them and then he invites them to stick their hand inside of his wound and then you're actually touching him and so forth and all of a sudden he disappears or walks to a wall or whatever and so if you believe the bible that type of thing having a different dimensions and being able to be substantive and physical and we're starting to see some stories about that you know it's

interesting there's a pastor out of austin that has written a book he's collected over a thousand near-death experiences. And when he looks at it, he says, you know, I think because we have this ability to bring back bodies from a state that always in the past was beyond being able to bring bodies back, he said, I think we're starting to see these accounts. And he looks at it from a Christian perspective. He said, you know, we've got a lot of different stories out there. And I have friends who I looked at that book and I said, you know, what do you think about this?

And it's all, like you said, it's all satanic. I don't want to talk about that. You know, and I think we need to look at that. But his perspective on it was he said, I'm seeing stories from people who are Buddhists, not Christians, different parts of the world. And he said, they might interpret this stuff differently. But he said, basically they're having the same experience.

And like you said, they're putting different clothing on it. He's had situations. One guy who was a Buddhist, he never knew anything about Christianity. And he immigrated to the United States after he had one of these, his daughter, invite him to a church at some point in time. and he starts hearing the story for the first time. He goes, oh, that matches up with what I had seen, right? And he wound up becoming a pastor, a Christian pastor himself,

because it matched up with what he had seen. So it's how you interpret the data. And again, that comes back to your worldview that's there. So this guy is putting it together. And he said, here's a thousand stories or so that I've put together. And I can see the elements there that match up better than anything else with the Christian narrative that's there. So he says, it really bolsters my faith.

And he said, I think we have something here because of the medical technology that's there. We've seen, just like you see with DNA, we have a new kind of witness, a new kind of evidence of things unseen. Yeah. You know, see, I just remember a story from the Bible. Remember the story about Shadrach and Mesak and Abed. Shadryk and Abnegut. Yeah. The way they always should say.

Yeah. Yeah. I was funny. I read the Bible so many times I still can't get these guys right. Well, we all have these chivalists. Everybody's talking about Trump's ballroom. And I never pronounce B-A-A-L as ball. Some people do.

I always thought it as bail. You know, so we've got these different ways to pronounce it. Who knows what it's right? I don't really know. So you have those three guys. You have those three guys going into Nebuchadnezzar's furniture, right? And you read about in the Bible it says, They went into the furnace, but they weren't completely consumed.

And they disappeared and then they came back with someone else. And so they reappeared in the furnace and they brought something else with them. Now, let's put it on a different costume. You ready? Put on a different costume. I see that all the time when I watch Star Trek. They go into this room. They're not totally consumed, but they do disappear in a molecular way.

and then they reappear in that same area. I'm talking about a teleport machine, right? So what has been the Kenezer had a teleporter? And I mean, I know that sounds outrageous. But think about it. And you put a new costume on it. Anything sounds outrageous. So, yeah, I mean, understand that that's all it is.

They're trying to put a new costume on old things. And you could have fun with it and still, you know, get your, you know, message across. I just don't, I think people are taking themselves too seriously. And that's the problem is they say, oh, aliens, miracles are of the devil. And no, not really, not always. Yeah, it's interesting when you were talking about childhoods and the implications to it and that type of thing. And that science died, religion died, and that type of thing. I'm looking at artificial intelligence, and you can see elements of that as well.

You know, people coming in and it's like, okay, does everything for me, you know, just like some powerful alien intelligence. and it does everything for me. So I don't need to learn anything. I don't need to make any effort to create art or to create music or anything. I just sit back and let it do it because I like its product that it does. And so it pacifies people in that regard. And then they just take it as if it is God's word or whatever. I mean, we've got situations for people going with artificial intelligence and saying,

I can't trust these human politicians. Let me get the AI to act as judge and jury to act as our administrators and so forth. Because I can trust that. the fundamental misunderstanding of what it is, but nevertheless, I can see elements of that already creeping in. That's kind of what we were wired to, to worship other things that are not really true. Yeah. Well, do you know what I see in this AI stuff and the way they use it?

I see it as a modern-day Ouija board. I see it as it's being used in the same way, except it's not necromancy that they're doing. They're not calling upon the dead, but they're calling upon some ghosts in the machine that seems to love to manipulate and cause people. to commit suicide or cross-reble-lose strange things because people lose their minds in the metaverse. And so, yes, I tend to think that when you look at an AI, if it's used in the wrong way, it could be seen as a modern-day electronic Ouija board.

Did they get all their information from it like that? Yeah, I agree. I think that's a pretty good way to look at it. Yeah, I think it's a good way to look at it. It's kind of interesting to see Richard Dawkins, you know, Mr. I'm going to talk only about reason and things that I can touch. and so forth. And then he thinks,

yeah, he has an episode of AI psychosis, as many people are starting to call this situation. It's like, you don't really understand what that is. And so, you know, he's,

that's laughing. The most strident, you know, God haters to basically try to rethink their positions, you know. That's right. And Strident Godhater.

He was even hopping later in his life. Yeah. Yeah. Strident Godhater because, you know, he wants to, I have to have physical evidence, things that I can touch and so forth. And he just completely goes off the rail when he encounters this stuff. And I think it's interesting because it kind of tells us something about what we are anchored in. You know, I just thought as we

were talking here, there was a, it was on a Christian news site where they talk about different things that people have, it doesn't focus on the supernatural, whatever. It's typically news about some pastor who's gone off the rails and molested somebody or something. So it's typically that kind of news, but they had a guy who had a truck fall on him. And it was an amazing story that the guy survived. It was a large truck and it came off of the supports. And it crushed him and it severed like five major arteries. They said typically somebody bleeds out if you just have one of them.

severed. You're going to bleed out in a couple of minutes. But he lasted for a couple of hours. And he was coming in out of consciousness and he was having some of these classic near-death experiences, even to the extent that it compressed his spine nearly flat. And so they couldn't get him out. They all thought he was basically cut in half and he nearly was cut in half. And he said, as he started to leave his body and look down, he saw these two big guys on either side of him. and, you know, he's starting to drift off. And then he gets brought back. And he gets back in.

He looks around and they're not there anymore. And then it happens again, a second time. And there was somebody who came in that was with EMS stuff and a new Christian, and they're sitting there praying for him and everything. He said, he thinks that that's what really happened with him. But afterwards, and it was about a year later, he goes to this group of EMS people. And they were all amazed. Like, this is our miracle guy.

You know, he made it through. Nobody thought he could make it through. We don't know still to this day how he didn't bleed out. And he said, it was a large group of them. And he picked out the six or eight people that were there. And he says, as a matter of fact, you two came in from the back door. And the rest of you came in from the front door. And they go, whoa, that's strange.

They said, yeah, we did, actually, because we got lost coming around there. So we came in through the back door. And he was able to pick out all of these people out of this crowd that were there. there. It's a very vivid experience to him. And so, you know, he looked at it and he said, you know, I kind of thought afterwards, maybe it was, you know, these guys that were there and they were not there. He said, maybe they were angels, you know. And so it really is kind of interesting when you look at the reality, the supernatural reality, the reality that is above nature and above what we see. That's where you

start to see these types of things. And it's the kind of stuff that for years you've talked to people in the, I guess, how would you characterize? It's, um, uh, it's, um, uh, kind of kind of the, you know, the woo-woo area. Yeah, where the supernatural stuff starts to come in and, and everybody has different interpretations of it as you're going out. So it's kind of interesting. Well, what you do is, you know, with me, with me, I try to teach people of new things.

Like, for example, what you're talking about, that guy said two guys were accompanying him. Those things are called psychopomps. And when you say that, people say, what do you talk about psychopomps? Psychopomps are escorts into the other world. And we've been talked about before with like, I think it's Kyran, the guy that runs the boat on the river 6 and you play the ferryman and he takes you to the other side. That's the story as old as time, the idea that you're escorted.

In fact, the comic book, The Crow deals with a cycle pomp that is a crow. It's basically some people have birds that take him to the other side. It's always been, you know, something is there waiting for you to help you and find your way into heaven. You're not left alone for what I understand. So I mean, some people say, well, I was alone. Usually they have a bad experience. But if you're having a good experience, usually there are people that are accompanied, whether it be parents, dead parents, old, you know, maybe children that have passed early on.

People have even said that they've been accompanied by children that haven't even been born yet. So, I mean, you go through that idea that there's something there interdimensionally that when you pass, the brain opens up to a whole, it's like a walnut. It opens up to a whole new world. The one, I guess you could call it, the one network. It's separate and you hook up to another network and you move on. That's, again, putting a costume on your Hallmark version of going to a sponge-colored world with a harp. And, you know, again, I don't, I think that kind of idea of life after death is boring.

I wouldn't, I would hope that I'm not going to some sponge-colored world in a terry cloth robe. and singing kumbaya up for eternity. I just don't like that idea. Well, you know, the Christian writer, there's a Christian writer, Randy Alcorn, he's done a lot of, done a lot of novels and things like that, but he did a book basically said,

you know, so what does the Bible really say about heaven? Is it, you know, this sponge world where we float around on clouds and play harps because it does sound boring, you know? And he said, well, no, actually, when you look at that, and you start to actually read between the lines in a sense and start to look at it in terms of context. He says, you know, we were created by God

to work. And so that is something that is really kind of in our nature, right? And what happened in the Garden of Eden was that work was cursed. It was made difficult. But, you know, what if it wasn't difficult? And what would we do? And what, you know, what types of things would we be doing, you know, on a new heaven and new earth? And so there is a different way to look at this. And, you Some of the stereotypes that we have picked up, you know, even when you look at things like, it's a wonderful life, you know, got to get your wings and all that stuff. You know, there's a lot of...

You know, I was going to say, I know what I want to do in the afterlife. I want to be on Ouija board duty. I want to be on Ouija board duty. So I'd scare the hell out of those teenagers playing with the Ouija board. Hey, can I have Ouija board duty tonight? Yeah, it'd be fun. Go scare those kids.

Yeah. Who will go be a deceiving spirit in their lives? I'll volunteer. I'll volunteer. Yeah. Well, it certainly is interesting. You can't think about it. Yeah.

Yeah, that is something to think about, isn't it? So, yeah, it's something that we all face in one way or the other. And so we need to think about the ultimate reality, which is something that is far different, really, than what we're all encountering. I think we're all going to be surprised to a large degree about what we see because of preconceptions. and because of cultural influences and things that we've had. And so it's hard to escape those types of things. It's hard to escape the reality that we live in and to think about something that is so much greater.

And, of course, certainly we can't imagine God. He would be able to create this. It's beyond anything we can imagine. So when you look at the Bible and you see these contradictions that are typically about God. You know, when it talks about humans, it's like, yeah, I can see that. It makes sense. But when you look at God, there's like, well, that doesn't make sense. How could that be and that be at the same time?

It's, I think, another testimony to the accuracy of that is that it would be a mystery as to how these things, unlike anything that we see in this world could exist. I think what we got is we've got at one time a sense of wonder mankind had because it was just between him, the stars, and God. God. And it was always a wonder to have things happen that were like unexplainable. So they looked at the heavens and they'd see eclipses or they'd see the moon term to blood or they'd see anything like that. And that to them was signifying that something big was going down. It's something that, you know, even you read the ancients would all look at star charts and they'd do all that. And now we don't do that anymore. You know why? I think we, I think the older civilization gets, the more cynical it becomes. And I think that.

that hopefully we can find the miracles that'll put us back in that idea of wonderment. Because I just feel like, you know, we're lacking imagination. Movies aren't the same anymore. Music's not the same anymore. Like cookie cutter and it's because of AI, it's because people just don't wanna imagine anymore

or people tell you you can't think that way. I would hope that the world wouldn't end up that way. But then again, I'm getting too old. You know, I have to admit now that I'm getting older because, you know, I've been hospitalized since November. But it's just, you know, I would hope that, you know, what we do is contributing to at least the knowledge and wonderment of what life truly is about. And that is surprises. And that is, you know, expect the unexpected.

Those are the, those are the roller coaster rides. I love it. It's like that story about, you know, do I want to ride a barrier around that makes me sick and goes up and down? Do we want to ride a roller coaster where there dips and all kinds of things where you feel like you're going to die, but you don't, you survive it. You can survive another day. That's when you start thinking about rather than thinking about all these doom and gloom things. I mean, we assess them and trying to make them less doom and gloom. But otherwise, you know, it's like we take things.

And like you said, there was too many things to follow, too many distractions to follow that we need to focus on certain things and then move on to the other thing. I mean, if we don't have time for it, we just kind of put it in the back, on the back burner a bit and then go with something else. I think we're having a hard time doing that. I think a lot of people are like discounting miracles and they're saying, oh, this can't happen. But it's happening. How can you deny it if it's happening in front of you? That's right. And that's the same with this alien thing.

I mean, they're not giving us much. But when they do dump the idea on you, then the novelty of aliens goes out the window. and you have to really start seriously thinking about what this means for you as a human being rather than, you know, dressing up on Halloween as an alien or, you know, pretending that there are aliens under your bed or whatever. No, this is real now. It's real. So how are you going to handle that?

And I think that a lot of people don't even think of them are going to have to. Yeah. And I think it'll be, it might actually be a positive thing because when you, what you mentioned was the fact that so much wonder has really left us. You know, as we get older and as society and civilization gets older, the wonder is gone. But a lot of it has to do with what we do in terms of approaching things. And I, as you were talking about that, I was thinking about how I had, when I was taking biology classes and science classes as a child, they had reduced everything down to literally the bare bones of fossils. And it's like, okay, so here's a, here's a bone of

such and such and look at how it's similar to this and that therefore this came from that and so forth in order to impose this evolutionary hierarchy that they had on it and there was really nothing very interesting about that especially when you look at the animals you know when you look at the animals that we got around us so you got a lion that's got the main you got zebras that got stripes and bright colored animals that are out there and yet when you would look at their reconstruction from dinosaur fossils or something like that it would always be this drab green or drab gray or something like that. And it's like, you don't think there was any hair or any kind of cartilage that would make the animal look interesting on all that kind of stuff.

But then we started looking at this with my kids when I was doing homeschool with them. We started taking a look at biology from a standpoint of design and intelligent design as God's design. And we started looking at it like that. You start finding out all this fascinating stuff about, you know, take just a woodpecker, for example, The fact that it's got to have this special cushioning so that it doesn't, you know, when it bangs its head repetitively into the tree, it doesn't lose consciousness. So it's got this special shock absorber. It's got a long tongue that wraps up around the back of its head. And we start looking at the uniqueness of things like that and how they fit together.

It really is miraculous. And it really does bring back a sense of wonder. And so in my older age, as I was teaching them, I recovered this sense of wonder that had been driven out from me by this drab. down skeletal version of biology. Well, I mean, I've talked about this before, too, when you're looking at biology and aliens and all that, you're thinking to yourself, well, somebody was saying that they believe that the answer to morphic alien

is the alien that's going to show the most intelligence. I go, how dare they say that? Because, you know, there was a study done that said, science fiction movies, the only aliens we care about are, anthropomorphic ones. Otherwise, we don't care. And one of the movies they made out was contact with the septopods were there and no one cared about them because they weren't human looking. And I was saying, yeah, it's the same thing. I mean, we can't, it's going to be a hard sell if Donald

Trump gets in the White House and he introduces us to the new alien and he looks like a lobster. You know, this is, this guy's not going to eat you, but what are you going to do now that you've met him and everybody's running to get the butter because they want to eat him. What if the alien is orange? Yeah, what if it's orange? What if he looks like Trump? Yeah, I don't, you know, I don't know, but that's the whole thing is that our interpretation of such things will see something if it looks like a spider. We'll already go evil, evil.

Again, back to the whole demon thing in childhood Zen and how they had to relearn that this medieval concept of the demon, was the alien. It's creepy, but, you know, that's just it. We have so many ideas of what things look like or what they represent, that something coming down with horns or pointy ears or whatever is going to definitely, you know, create a cognitive dissonance. It's just really going to mess up a lot of things, I think. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, as always, Clyde, it has always been a fascinating discussion, and talk to you about anything, whether we're talking about politics, economics, or the supernatural stuff that is out there. It's always interesting to get your take on things. And I'm so glad to have you back. I appreciate that. And thank you for putting up ground zero plus.com.

And again, you spell out zero and you spell out plus. People go take a look at that and you'll find some ice stuff there as well as many, many other people that are there. And so glad that you're back. Hope that you're going to recover fully. not already fully recovered. You sound like you're fully recovered. So, I'm fully recovered. So there's some things that are anchoring me to the bed. So I got to go back to bed in a little bit. That'll take a while. That'll take a while. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Well, I hope you recover fully.

Thank you so much for joining us again. Clyde Lewis. Thank you. It is ground zero plus.com. Thank you, client. Thank you. Have a great day. Thank you. Common Core to dumb down our children. They created common past to track and control us. Their commons project to make sure the commoners own nothing and the communist future. They see the common man as simple, unsophisticated, ordinary. But each of us has worth and dignity created in the image of God. That is what we have in common.

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