The David Knight Show - Interview: Duty to Disobey: The Military's COVID Betrayal

Episode Date: June 12, 2026

Arizona state representative and Air Force veteran Nick Kupper (Kupper4Arizona.com) was handed separation papers three weeks before his 19-year mark — one year short of retirement — for refusing a COVID shot the DOD was legally required to admit in court had never actually been manufactured in its fully approved form until six months after the Air Force's compliance deadline. Money should have intrinsic value AND transactional privacy: Go to https://davidknight.gold/ for great deals on physical gold/silver For 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to https://trendsjournal.com/ and enter the code “KNIGHT” For high quality made in America products go to HomeSteadProducts.shop and use promo code “Knight” for 10% off your purchases Find out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.com If you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-show Or you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @[e-mail] App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-david-knight-show--2653468/support.

Well, as those of you who've watched the program over the years know, I have talked a great deal about the vaccine and about the vaccine mandates. There's now a documentary out called Duty to Disobey. And you can find that at Duty to Disobey Film.com. And I'm interviewing today someone who had a prominent place in this. It was a big issue in his life and his career. He was a military fighting these mandates. and he is a part of this documentary now. Congressman now in Arizona, is that correct, sir, Nick Cupper.

Thank you so much. Yes, thank you for joining us. And I want to talk to you about your personal experience and about what has happened and as a member of Congress, what is being done to keep this from happening again. And I guess we could also talk about what's being done or not done about the vaccines as I was looking this up and some of the mandates that came out.

Eventually, Biden mandated it for private companies as well. And one of the people writing an article pushing back against that was Marty McCarrie, who now has just been pushed out, I guess. So I guess many of us are looking at this and saying, well, what has been done to keep this from happening again? That's one of the key things, I think. But let's go back and review your particular case. You were in the military.

You had been there for several decades, 20 years at least, I think. and there were severe penalties that were being done. People were losing their military career, losing their medical benefits. Tell us about the impact and the threat that it was to your life. Yeah, so for me specifically, the mandate came out right around the time I had 18 years in service. Pardon me. And I fought it as long as I could because there were a couple reasons. Initially, I filed a religious accommodation request.

My thought was I had already had COVID. I had proven I had antibodies. And actually my base immunologist admitted that I had more antibodies than he did. And he had taken both shots. So the basic idea behind a vaccine is it gives you antibodies. If I already have antibodies, I don't feel like I need it. But for my religious belief, I really looked at it from the perspective of I felt like my God had given me antibodies. And if I were to take the shot at that point, I'd be denying my God's protection he'd given me.

I don't really feel like denying my God. That being said, the military did feel like denying my God. And so they denied my religious accommodation. They denied my appeal, just like everybody else, who filed one. And they attempted to kick me out. But one of the other big issues, regardless of religion, was the fact that Secretary Austin at the time, his order was technically written correctly. It said that we were mandated to take the fully approved vaccine. It's not really a vaccine.

It's a shot. But that's what it said, including fully approved labeling. The DOD had to admit in the lawsuit that I was in Coker v. Austin, that they never had anything that could be considered fully approved until at least June of 22, which was six months after the deadline for Air Force members to have taken it. Well, is that the, excuse me, was that the back and forth between Corminati and the Pfizer biointech vaccine? Because there was a labeling issue with that. And they were saying, technically, you know, you're saying that this one over here is approved, but that's not even

available in the United States. Was that the issue? Yeah, that's the basic of it. So, Cumerity was the name brand of what they were going to have their fully approved version. They got their full approval at the end of August of 21. The very next day is when Secretary Austin made his mandate. All of that is all well and good. The problem is when you get an approval, it doesn't mean that everything you produced up to that point is approved. It means literally if you follow all the rules of the approval going forward, you can produce something that's approved.

Well, they, once again, in my court case, they had to admit that Pfizer never even manufactured. an approved version until January 3rd of 2022. The DoD didn't order any until May of 2022, and they didn't get any on hand until June of 2022. And then they gave me separation papers in July of 22, which was about three weeks before my 19 year marks. So I was about one year shy of getting to retire. But thanks to a lawsuit brought by Aaron Siri,

who's actually out of Arizona like I am, I got a class-wide court injunction that covered me the day after my separation papers. And that's what was allowed me to actually retire and not get kicked out. Wow, yeah. It's such a betrayal, really, of the Constitution as well as the people who were in the military. And, and again, as I said before, it wasn't just the military. They then started extending this to anybody who had a contract with the government. They extended it to schools and universities. They started twisting arms and blackmailing people with financial threats and that type of thing. Financial threats to the universities, financial threats to hospitals, financial threats to corporations.

you want to do business with us, this is what you're going to do. And that's why when you're talking about antibodies and everything, when I looked at this from the very beginning, it was like there's basically an inconsistency here that is illogical, right? We were told that we had to shut down and wait for the vaccine. No other things are going to be allowed from the very beginning. And so it's like, this really doesn't seem like they think that this is an emergency. And there's all kinds of contradictions.

within the science of virology that really don't add up. That was my concern about this from the very beginning. No, it definitely, none of that felt right from the beginning for me. When everything kicked off, I was stationed in New Jersey. And unfortunately, living under that governor was like living under a tyranny. It was Phil Murphy at the time. And I remember they arrested a woman at a playground with her kids for being outdoors by herself with her children. I remember.

And we ended up getting moved to Arizona because my daughter's in a wheelchair. And the doctor's there. They stopped giving her physical therapy because they said, well, we're scared of COVID. They kicked the kids out of school because they were scared of COVID. Well, my daughter can't learn on a screen. It's not in the cards for her. And I tried to point out to the doctors. I said she has 11 special needs.

She'll die of something else. Like COVID is not the only thing that will kill her. You need to be able to give her treatments. They refused. She had an open wound on her hip for months and months and months. They refused to try to treat it. And so we got an emergency move with their. Air Force and that's what ended up getting me here at Arizona and how I'm in the state legislature

are there now. This experience kind of galvanized me to run for office. I think politics are absolutely stupid. I think most politicians absolutely suck. I don't really want to be here. But I think somebody needs to step up who can make the difference. And to your point of using money as an incentive, if I will say, it's something I've noticed in the legislature, it's a very normal political tool. It doesn't mean it's always good, but it's a very normal political tool where you say, hey, we're not going to tell private industry technically what they have to do, but we're We're going to say if you don't do this, it's kind of like a mob, right? Right.

Hey, we're not going to be able to offer your protection if you don't do these things. Nice business you got. They'd be ashamed if you lose your major contractor. Yeah. I've seen this over and over again when people were trying to say, well, who's responsible for all this stuff? And I said, look, we have seen this play over and over again, whether you're talking about Obama saying you've got to put the trainees in the bathrooms with the girls or you got

Trump saying you can't put the trainees in the bathroom with the girls. what do they always do they always get around the 10th amendment by saying we're going to withhold money from your school if you don't do what I say and so they can say completely different things but the tactic that they use is always the same it's always the money and so yeah we've seen that over and over again well let me ask you this we've looked at this from the standpoint of the vaccine itself that is out there and there's been a lot of people who ran under maha who said saying we've got to do something in terms of better testing of the vaccines. And we need to pay attention to the safety and the efficacy of these things. Those people appear to be getting pushed out like Marty McCarrie. What is your take on what is going on right now in terms of vaccine safety, efficacy, and the FDA basically doing its job? I think what you see, unfortunately, is just the worst of politics at its worst.

politics gets into everything, whether it should or shouldn't. It really does. I think what happened with people like McCarray getting pushed out is politics again. It's not that he doesn't have the right ideas. It's that maybe he doesn't play ball in another area where they want him to play ball. Maybe they agree with him on certain things, right? But if he's not a fully committed team player, he goes away. It's a similar thing in political parties too, right?

Like if you're not fully sold out to your political party that you're a member of, you know, if you're not putting them first above everything else, maybe you don't make it any longer. You know, maybe they push somebody against you. I see it all the time, the legislature and this is one of the many reasons I don't want to be here, but one of the reasons maybe I should be here is because somebody is able to push back against that. And at least vote their conscience, do what they truly believe is right every time. You know, there's like, Senator Fetterman. I disagree with a lot about that guy.

However, I very much respect that he seems to vote what he truly believes. He doesn't care if his party wants to go off completely far left. He says, look, this is wrong or I think this is right. And he votes how it is. Now, that being said, I'm pretty sure he won't ever be back in the Senate. I'm pretty sure the Democrats are going to find somebody else to replace him. And maybe that happens to me one day, too. That's right.

Yeah, that's basically what they did Thomas Massey. The political parties basically pick who's going to run for the most part of the Now, you're in the state legislature there in Arizona. So you don't have really much that you can do about the national situation, about what's happening with the FDA or in this other stuff. What is the situation in Arizona in terms of, because we've had a mixture of a couple of different issues there. At the state level, we've had some states that have said,

we're not going to recommend it. Others have pushed back harder with that. Some local jurisdictions have pushed back on it and said, Well, we now have enough data that we know that it is, it's not safe. It's not effective. And it's fraudulent for them to be able to sell this. What is the situation in Arizona? So in Arizona, before our current governor, Hobbs took office and before I was in the legislature,

we had Governor Ducey. And they were able to get some decent legislation that stopped some of the tyrannical ideas or prevented some that may come up in regards to vaccinations or, in this case, shots. because it's really not a vaccine. They changed the definition of vaccine. It doesn't vaccinate you. So I try not to call it a vaccine. But since I've been in office and since Hobbs has been there,

she stops anything at all that would have to do with your individual liberties. For instance, last year I ran a bill, knowing that I have a Democrat governor, knowing that I'm probably not going to get anything past her in this regard because she doesn't care about your individual rights. But I tried to water down version where I just said, look, the state could never mandate that you take any unapproved medical product. I thought, hey, this has got to be bipartisan, right?

Because it doesn't matter who's in the governor's office. What if there's a Republican who wants to mandate Democrats take something they don't want to take? Shouldn't they want my body my choice? That's kind of their thing, right? That's their argument. And I got zero Democrat votes on it and she vetoed the bill. So this year, I ran a constitutional amendment that said the state could never mandate

that you take any medical product, period. Because in Arizona, if you run a constitutional amendment, if it go to the ballot and the people will get the chance to vote on it, right? Now, if they say, yeah, we want the state to tell us what to put in our body, well, that sucks, but at least they had their will. No state has ever given a constitutional amendment to the people that says this. No state in the history of our country. In fact, my bill has gone further than any in the history of our country.

The furthest ever gone before was out of one committee in one chamber. Mine got out of the House, all Republicans, no Democrats. It got out a committee in the Senate, all Republicans, no Democrats. but it's stalled right now and probably won't see the Senate floor because there are four Senate GOP members who don't want to vote yes on it. Wow. Wow. I don't know who they are,

they're unfortunately. Yeah. Well, you probably check and see who's been taking pharmaceutical money and you, that kind of give you a key as to what's happening with. Let's talk about the harms in terms of safety. Do you know any members that had adverse reactions to this personally? Yeah, Carolina Stansick,

she's in the documentary. she was, I believe, a senior airman in the Air Force at the time. And if I'm remembering correctly, she had three heart attacks in her early 20s after taking the shot. Wow. That's not something in early 20s person has who's healthy. You know, if you're in the military, you're typically pretty healthy, especially if you're in your early 20s. Yeah. And it has a situation where they've got a situation.

I'm sorry to interrupt, but they've got a situation now that's absolutely absurd. They started doing electrocardiograms on. kids if they wanted to participate in sports. And it's like, we've never done anything. And they just pretend that that's normal somehow. Yeah, we had a bill in Arizona last year, and it may have popped up again this year. I was personally against it because I think it's a step too far. But they wanted to push AEDs within a certain amount of feet of every practice field

for every single high school sport in the state. One, it's kind of a vendor bill where you're trying to get money to a certain vendor who makes these things. But secondarily, what are we doing as a society that all of a sudden high schoolers are having heart attacks? Maybe we should be looking at that and not like, this is a Band-Aid solution. Putting an AED there, maybe we shouldn't be forcing unproven things onto our kids. Yeah, I know. Yeah, all of this stuff is so unprecedented.

And it just is amazing to me that so many people will look at this. And I agree, the mandate was horrific. And we've had situations like that in the military before with anthrax vaccine. And eventually the, you probably know better than I do how that worked out in terms of remembering it. But I believe that eventually the military backtracked on that and said they were wrong. And I think they compensated individuals for that. Is that correct? Actually, what happened there is people weren't compensated for it.

And they've actually gotten less protection than we have in the COVID group. There's a gentleman, he actually lives in my state, Tom Renfer. He's been fighting to get people taking care of from the anthrax thing. since day one. And he's very happy to see some progress for us with COVID, but it's more progress than he's seen from anthrax in the 20-some years. And ironically enough, my career was bookended by two different emergency use mandates.

Anthrax, right when I first came in the military, which eventually in a case, Dobie Rumsfeld, the DoD lost is what happened. Because real quick background for you and for your listeners, emergency use authorized medications didn't exist before the early 2000s. there were investigational new drugs, which you could only give in clinical trials,

and then there were fully approved drugs. That was it. So there was no way to give military members, for instance, outside of a clinical trial, anything that wasn't fully approved. When anthrax came around, they wanted some way to do that. So under Bush, they passed this new option for the FDA called emergency use authorization, which said that you could give it outside of a clinical trial, but it wasn't fully approved yet.

But one of the caveats, and this is what really caught up anthrax and caught up the COVID shot was if it's emergency use, you have to give the member the option to refuse. And they weren't giving us the option to refuse. They were mandating. If you have an option to refuse, it's not a mandate. So Dale Saron, he was one of my attorneys on one of my lawsuits, he was one of the attorneys at the time we fought and won Dobie Rumsfeld, where the DOD said, okay, we'll never do this again. But by the time they won that lawsuit, there was an approved version of anthrax and they only started mandating it in certain use case scenarios, not blanket like they had. Well, then COVID came around, and they backtracked on what they told the court they would do

with anthrax and started mandating emergency use again. So sadly enough, my career is bookended by the two illegal mandates. Wow. And you know, what you were pointing out before was something I was saying through all this. Typically, the people would say, my body, my choice, they wanted to take away your choice about your body. And, you know, when we talk about abortion, I am pro life. And so I say, well, that's, you're not talking about your body. That's somebody else. But when you're talking about this injection, there's absolutely no question, no any disputes, that is your body. And so we saw those kinds of crazy things. We also... Well, one quick note on that. I think it's really interesting because, you know, you said the words they would use is my body, my choice, but they're really

talking about your body my choice because it's not their body. It's a baby's body. I will say they're at least consistent as far as their actions, because once again, they want to control your body. They want to force things onto you. That's right. That's right. There's a consistency there. But, you know, when we're talking about anthrax, it's kind of interesting to me as well. I go back and I look at all this stuff. I always think back to Dark Winter. I had somebody who was involved in cybersecurity, and he warned me about a year and a half before this start.

He said there's an awful lot of chatter about Dark Winter 2. You know what Dark Winter 1 was? And I say, yeah, I remember what that was. And so I don't know if you remember, but it was two months before the 9-11 attack. They had an exercise, which everybody talks about, event 201 and many of these other ones, but it was basically locking down society in response to some kind of an epidemic, some kind of a pandemic, and keeping everything locked down until they

rushed out an emergency vaccine. And that's exactly what they practiced for 20 years and then we went through it. But one of the things that was key to it was the actual anthrax attack, which happened a week after 9-11. And people died from that. and they use that to push out model legislation to all the different states. And so as a state representative there, you've got an option to take a look at some of these laws that they pushed out as model legislation. And it got enacted at the state level. And that's that along with the, we'll give you money or will withhold money from you, will bribe you or will blackmail you over federal funding depending on if you do what we want you to do. but they also got the laws put in with the model state health emergency legislation that they

did two months after the anthrax attacks. So anthrax is tied together with the mandates as well as with the pandemic stuff that is there. I think it's kind of interesting to see that happen. Do you know what the situation is in terms of your pandemic legislation there in Arizona? Is there anything that you or others have looked at to change that at the state level? Yeah, we've looked, especially when you're talking about governor's emergency powers, and I don't care what party our governor comes from. A governor, I'm willing to say, okay, they should have emergency powers, right? There are legitimate emergencies where they can act much faster than ways the legislature can act.

In fact, typically, we are slow as molasses. It's very pathetic. But there have to be checks and balances on them, and there have to be things where, hey, you can act with an emergency. authority for only so long and then you need to come to the legislature and let the legislature allow you to continue on. Furthermore, in your emergency powers, I don't think at any point you should be able to take away someone's individual liberties. The whole point of it is, you know, God gave us all these freedoms. They all come from God. They're derived from God. The Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of Arizona doesn't give these freedoms and liberties. What it does is it

enshrines that it's our job to protect them. They're God-given. We forget that all the time. You're right. We act as if, oh, we're giving this to you little people. We don't give you anything. It's our job to protect it, but we screw that up over and over and over again. And so we, some of us, not all of us, unfortunately, some of us want to enact a legislation that ties the hands of the governor when it comes to stealing away individual liberties. But so far, we haven't got a whole lot of traction. I'm very hopeful that if we get Andy Biggs into the governor's seat next year, that he's going to go ahead and sign off on a bunch of these because he actually seems like he gives a That would be key. Yeah, that would absolutely be key. And you're absolutely right. It's the difference between rights and privileges if the government gives it to you. I said all through this, I said, what we have here is basically martial law. You know, declare a pandemic, and the government can do anything to you. And the governors had been given these powers for a pandemic, and then they were given the financial incentives. We saw in many states the governors were given, and this, I'm talking about some Republican governors.

They were given more money by the federal government than the entire state budget. And that was something that they could use at their own personal discretion. And that is basically power. And they weren't going to do anything to let anything get in the way of that power. Tell us a little bit about some of the people that you know that have experienced adverse reactions to this, besides the person who's had multiple heart attacks. I mentioned there's a lot of this. Yes.

Yeah, there was a gentleman who worked in the exact same builders. I didn't know him personally. I had seen him a time or two. He was a technical sergeant. I was a master sergeant who was in E6, I was in E7. He worked in the quality assurance department. And he had had both of his shots. I'm not sure if it was Moderna or Pfizer, but he had had both of his shots.

And on a Wednesday, he tested positive for COVID. He had some symptoms tested positive. So they sent him home. Come Saturday, he got so sick that he went to. the hospital. By Tuesday, he had died of heart failure. Wow. Wow. He was in his early 30s. And originally, they were trying to say, well, he didn't have his shots, but we actually got the basemanologist to acknowledge, no, he had had had both shots. And one of the most telling things to me of how scared the Air Force was about this gentleman's death after having both shots was that

they used to have a public facing website that would say how every time a new airman had died of COVID, they would list it. And I'm going by road here, but I believe the number was 16 deaths before he had died. There were 16 airmen who had died. And the Air Force was very happy to try to say, well, none of them were vaccinated.

So look, only unvaccinated people were dying. From the time he died, they never updated their death number again. They refused because they didn't want to publicly admit that somebody who had actually taken both shots had died. And one of my friends who worked directly with this guy, he came to him one day.

He had taken both of his shots too. He didn't disagree with my stance on. taking the shots, but he didn't quite fully understand it. But he came to me and he said, you know what? He's like, I really wish I wouldn't have done it now after this. And he said, and he was almost in tears. He said, I feel like the Air Force killed my best friend. And he's like, I'm so pissed off right now and I'm so hurt.

And that's just one example, right? And there's Carolina earlier. And I'm not saying that it negatively affected every single person who took it. But it 100% negatively affected people and especially the fact that it was never approved anything that anyone took. I don't know that there's a civilian. in this world who ever got an approved version of the shop because we were going to the CVS and everything else and no one had it no one had the approved thing because it didn't even get manufactured

until January of 2022 and by that point most people are taking it yeah yeah or weren't going to take it yeah absolutely right and that's the key thing when we look at all of this it is it was there were so many signals that something was rotten in denmark with all this stuff i mean the fact that you can't try ivermectin or acque or anything else we have these uh protocols that we have determined we're going to do, we're going to use ventilators and we're going to use vaccines eventually. Nothing else was allowed. The suppression, the active suppression of any information about adverse effects that were happening. And we saw this everywhere. We saw it, not just the military, but everywhere. And so everything about it just was fishy. And yet,

when we look at it, it seems to me it's kind of interesting that there is, there's, when I talked to people who are Republicans because I'm a conservative. So many of them only are concerned about the mandate, but they're not concerned as much about the vaccine itself or the shot itself. And it's like, yeah, but the issue is that Trump funded this, Trump manufactured it, Trump pushed it, and he kept cheering about it, telling people that he'd save millions of lives. And I've got a real problem with that.

I just, that kind of double think that is there again, it's a partisan blindness, I think. of people not wanting and see the bigger picture. It is. And the hard thing with the hard thing with President Trump is, and there's a lot of good about him, but there's also bad. He's not a perfect man.

And his biggest issue, in my opinion, is a hubris. He won't go back and want to admit that he was wrong about anything. And the thing is, none of us do. None of us like to admit when we're wrong. I'm wrong sometimes.

But I absolutely hate admitting it. But I do because, especially as a father, I want to demonstrate to my sons and to my daughter. that look, this is what a good adult does. This is what a good human does. If you screw up, own it and move on from it, right? Unfortunately, President Trump made mistakes with COVID, but he won't admit to it.

Now, the downside is there is a base of the Republicans who want to idolize him. We shouldn't idolize any human being, right? We should idolize our God, and that is it. And Trump is not a God. I don't think he's trying to be a God either, but he does love the fan for it. fanfare. And it's it's very frustrating when I think we could do he could do better. He, I think he would actually ingrati to a lot more support. If he would just be open, I'm like, you know what? This was a mistake that I took. I took some bad advice. He was new to

politics. Totally understandable. I get it. I mean, he never held a political office before being president. That's a pretty big jump. And so that, that unfortunately is a downside. I think most of my peers don't want to say anything negative ever about who our president is. He has flaws. He's not perfect, but he is the best option we have there 100%. I'm very glad he's in office. Let's talk a little bit about the reinstatement and the back pay. What is your take on all that? Has there been just compensation made to correct that and to walk that back on the part of the military? No, it hasn't been done yet, unfortunately, not correctly. They've taken incrementally better steps that have gone and a very appreciative of Secretary Hegesath for

what he's done. And, you know, Stu Scheller's been one of the ones who's actually been helping us out. And he was, he got kicked out over arguing about the Afghan withdrawal, you know, which was horrible and got 13 service members killed. So he was never part of the COVID thing, but he's actually been a great fighter on our side of it. Because once he learned about it, he realized how bad it was. And anyway, they're working there. but I don't know what the exact reason is. My guess is something to do with politics again, but they're not quite getting there.

What they really need to do, it's pretty basic, is they need to just blanketly, if you were kicked out or coerced out directly over COVID, if there was only COVID related, if it wasn't something else, like you set up car and fire and you didn't take the shot. But if it was only COVID, they should be paying you the entire money

they owed you for the rest of what your contract was, because when they kicked you out or coerced you out, they illegally terminated your contract. And all those contracts have now lapsed, like even the longest person, their contract would have been over by now. So to bear minimum, they should give them the housing allowance,

the food allowance, and the basic pay for the years that they illegally cut off of their contract. That'd be very simple, whether they come back in or not. Because here's the thing. So many of these people, maybe they didn't have families before, now they have families.

They've moved states. They've started new careers. They can't just drop everything to come back in to get their back. That's not how that works. And regardless, the military was in the wrong. And I told this directly to Secretary Higtseth. I said this last year when I met with him in the Pentagon. I said, if you really want to do the right thing here, you guys have the opportunity to do something that no administration has ever done.

You can write the wrong of your predecessor. We did the math on this. It would be roughly $6 billion. But that's $6 billion that was already owed to these airmen and allocated to these airmen. I say airmen because I was in the Air Force, soldiers, sailors, Marines. but it was already allocated to them in the NDA, the National Defense Authorization Act and appropriated, but they never spent on them because they got kicked out.

So what did the DoD do with that money at the time? So they got it for something else now when it belongs to these people. So if they want to do it right, just pay everybody who was kicked out. Not me. I didn't get kicked out. I got to retire by the grace of God. And especially those people who got kicked out whose contract would have taken them to retirement, pay off their contract, give them the back pay for the retirement,

they've missed now and then put them on their retirement rules going forward. That's how it should be done. What happens to those people they got kicked out and didn't get the retirement? Are they getting any retirement now? I mean, what level of compensation have they done for people? I mean, they're not giving them the back pay. Is that correct? From my understanding, the only people who are getting any money back are ones who rejoin.

And that's travesty because like I said, not everybody can nor wants to at this point, right? And I don't think they should have to. They were kicked out. If I had actually been kicked out, I sure wouldn't want to come back. At this point, actually, I don't want to come back. I'm retired, but I wouldn't want to go back anyway. Obviously, if somebody attacked my country, I would step back in in a heartbeat. But that's a different scenario.

But what they're, they're not giving anybody anything unless they come back in. If you're a retirement age person, you're not coming back in most likely. Right. And maybe you can't come back in because of life circumstances. So no, they're not doing it right for people. And the reinstatement process, it's. I know people, a friend of mine, Travis Giddery, it took him forever to come back in. He was doing everything they'd say, but they kept moving the goalpost or they weren't pushing the

information down to the lowest levels of the local recruiter. And I used to be a recruiter. So I know this works. The local recruiters wouldn't know what to do. And so he would just be delayed and delayed and then told the wrong thing and then told the right thing. But then told the wrong thing again. It's a nightmare and it makes you want to not try. Let me ask you this. Let's say that somebody is their worst case scenario. They're one day short of their 20-year retirement or something. They get kicked out because of this thing. They don't get any retirement benefits.

Is that what the situation is right now? What do they get? Not that I've seen so far. Wow. Wow. That is harsh. Yeah. That is harsh.

And I agree with you. I think that is a violation of their contract, a good faith violation of a violation of a good faith contract. So tell us what duty to disobey really means from your perspective. What is the point of the documentary that's here? At what point do we disobey the orders that the government gives us as somebody who's signed up in the military? We knew it to be factually an unlawful order. And we knew it to be because in this particular case, Title X of U.S. Code, I mentioned this before,

it specifically says that for emergency use products, you have to be given the option to refuse. The only waiver for that is if the Secretary of Defense, in writing, requests of the President of the United States, a temporary waiver for certain missions, like a set deployment or something like that. The Secretary of Defense never requested in writing this. In fact, one of the special advisors to Psychicacic Seth right now, Christina Wong, she was a reporter for Breitbart at the time. And she requested the DoD to give her, hey, did you ever request in writing? And they could never give it to her because they didn't request this in writing. So they never followed the steps. So they're mandating us to take this emergency use product, which they can't mandate us to take.

So it's one hell of a nightmare. It really is. Yeah. Let me ask you, too, because I mean, this title, Duty to Disobey, that was really a red flag for Pete Hegseth when the Mark Kelly and some others talked about that in terms of what's going on with the situation of Venezuela, where they're shooting at boats in terms of. of extrajudicial issues like that and even coming back and hitting people who were shipwrecked that were there. But of course, in his response, when he was criticized for talking about the duty to disobey, Mark Kelly said, well, I haven't seen them do anything illegal.

Right. Well, let's talk about Mark Kelly for just a second on that because I have a personal story directly tied into this. Good. So Mark Kelly made his video with some other members of Congress saying, alluding to the fact that Trump and Hague Seth were ordering people. to do illegal things, but not providing evidence. And when he was asked, he said, I don't know.

Now, Senator Mark Kelly is correct that Article 92 of the UCMJ tells us that we have a duty to disobey unlawful orders. We literally, like it tells you you cannot follow an unlawful order. You have to disobey an unlawful order because it's unlawful. Well, when I was disobeying the unlawful order to take the emergency use product, I called his office because he's my senator. And I know he's a Democrat. And I wasn't in office the time.

I was an active duty service member, but I was in his state, an active due service member. He's my senator. I called his office and I said, look, I've talked to the base immunologist and I've looked everywhere there is. There is no approved version. They're telling me I have to take it by this date, even if it's not approved. They're telling me I have to take it. That's an unlawful order.

I need help. And their response was, just go to CVS and take it anyway. And I pushed back again and I said, look, I can't. It's unlawful. And they said, why does it matter? Just go take it. That was what Senator Kelly's office told me. me. So when one of his own constituents brought to him an actual unlawful order that I was disobeying,

he told me to piss off. But then he makes his video for political reasons, but he doesn't actually even follow his own advice. I agree. I think it was completely political because we knew from the standpoint, I think at the point where they did that, we knew that they had gone back and shot at people who were shipwrecked, which is, I think clearly in the Pentagon as rules of engagement. So not only was it unlawful, but it violated those rules. And yet, when pressed on it, he didn't want to give any specific examples. Well, I don't know that they, I don't know of anything they've done. Illegally, I just want to say this as a general principle that you have a duty to disobey. Well, it's hard to give specific examples when you're lying. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I agree

with that. So it is interesting, but I do agree with you that there is a duty to disobey. And it is not simply for people in the military. It is for people everywhere to disobey these types of strong-armed tactics because as I mentioned before, they did it to students, to college students, they did it to undergraduates, and they did it to people of private companies as well. Anybody with a military contract, it was a real strong-armed tactic that they were doing. And they tried it with OSHA to cover everybody. Remember that? Yeah, yeah. And then that got struck down. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, even when they were doing the masks, it's like, you realize that OSHA's already got a rule out there saying that if you are working in a very dusty environment,

which is the only thing those masks were good for, that you have to give your employees after they've been wearing this for 20 minutes. You've got to give them a break so they can get some fresh air. And then they wanted everybody to be forced to wear these masks all day. I mean, it was just, like I said, this whole thing. It was so inconsistent. Yeah, it was, it was a crazy, whoever wrote the script needed to have some continuity advice on this because it was discontinuous all the way through it and made no sense whatsoever,

except when perceived through the lens of unbridled power, I think. Then it kind of made sense. So tell us a little bit about the documentary. You're interviewed in it. Is that correct? Yeah. So this is a documentary of a lot of us who went through this. And we had varying, you know, stories.

We all got treated slightly differently because, it was very unique base to base and service to service as to what would happen. And obviously, you heard a little bit about mine. But every single person in this have their own kind of horror story to tell. And some had it far worse than others. Some had a weird quirk. So very happy the Children's Health Defense was able to put this together and get us all together. We filmed this last year. I'm actually going to be flying out to DC this week to do some premier stuff for it. and there's a lot of great stories. I think Senator Ron Johnson, who was a huge advocate for us the whole time, he's interviewed

in it. And, you know, people who were allies with it, not just the ones who had to go through it themselves. And I think there's going to be a lot that people who watch this are going to learn. It's everything, you know, I believe that everything we all said was true. It's stuff that probably even the modern DOD doesn't necessarily want out there. because it's not a good look because it shows the ugly source of what the DOD did. And in some ways, it's still doing.

Now, they're not mandating COVID, but they're also not fully writing all the wrongs. And as much as I appreciate the current Department of War, I can also point out when there are flaws, just like with President Trump. The man has flaws. I appreciate him overall. But we've got to be able to call a spade a spade. I would want the same done of me. Yes.

And so this is going to be theatrically released because they have a link to get the tickets at the website, Duty to Disseman. Bayfilm.com. What is the release date on this? June 30th is when it'll be out across the nation in tons of theaters, a lot of AMC theaters, a lot of smaller theaters. There's usually a place nearby just about everybody in the country who, if they want to go see it. Well, it's very important for people to not let this just go by. And this is a horrific episode for so many people in so many different fields, not just the military, but in many other areas. And if we just let this go and forget about it, and that's the thing, I guess, one of the things, one of the

things that has really bothered me about this, is that after people got tired of this, they just stopped obeying and they walked away, but they didn't do anything to correct it to keep it from happening again. And I think that's a key thing that we've got to look at this and say, well, I demand that this be reformed, this be changed, the types of things that you were talking about earlier. We need to see those things. We need to demand those things. So I think it's important for people to look at this and to think about what happened and to hear the testimony of people who suffered through this. And thank you for taking a stand. I really do appreciate that. I've had a lot of people on who have taken a stand, and it's cost them a great deal. I've had a lot of people who have lost their

jobs, been fired because they refuse to take the vaccine mandates. And I've got to say, of the people who did that for religious reasons, I have seen God bless them in very important ways. And I think we can usually see God doing that. When you stand up and take a principled stand on something, that God will usually has your back on that and usually come out better than you were before, I think. And that's certainly... It's always better to follow God's plan and follow our own.

That's right. Even if the circumstances don't work out, but I've seen over and over again that God has really blessed that. I've seen people who have lost their job and their career, they thought, and then they wound up starting an independent business. And God really blessed that. And I've seen that. Well, it's like I said, when I was going through this, my father came to do one day.

And he meant well, but for about 15 minutes, you tried to convince me to take the shot so I could make sure I still put food on the table for my family. And I said, look, I know that God has me fighting this for a reason. I said, if I get to stay in, then that was God's plan. If I get kicked out, that was God's plan. While my plan is, I want to stay in, I want whatever God's plan is because I know it's better than mine. And so even if, you know, you mentioned the circumstance don't go the way.

we hoped they would. If you know that you're doing everything that your God wants you to do, then whatever the outcome will be will be what the outcome was meant to be by your God. That's right. That's right. And in your particular case, you're in a position now where you can help other people, being Arizona State Representative. Are you, I guess as an election year, you're running again at this point in time?

I am. I'm very blessed, though. We don't have a primary. My seatmate and I are in the clear there. We do have one Democrat in the general, but we're a very Republican heavy district. I'm pretty confident I'll be back next year. Oh, that's great. That's great.

They need people like you. They need people who see what the problem is. And so much of this is at the state level. And I said this throughout. I said, you know, when we look at this, you're talking about how people have these different experiences, even within the military. But that was certainly the case in terms of civil government.

And I highlighted cases all through where you might have a good sheriff or you might have a bad sheriff. Therefore, he might have a good governor or bad governor. And these people would just amplify this in one direction or the other. And I said, really, we always get focused strictly on the federal elections. And yet, when you look at this, where the rubber met, the road, and all this stuff, is that the local level? And they could either nullify this or they could make it much, much worse than even Washington was trying to do. So it's very important to have these state elections.

And again, Nick, you're running, Nick Cooper and Aaron. Arizona. So if you're there, keep him in mind and work with him to try to get some of these things taking care. We certainly have the right understanding of the difference between rights and privileges. That's one of the key starting place. That's where our country started was in that distinction between rights and government-granted privileges. So thank you so much for taking a stand on that. And again, the documentary is duty to disobeyfilm.com. You can find where you can buy tickets and where the documentary is going to be showing and it's going to be coming out on June 30th. Thank you so much for joining us.

Nick Cupper. The common man. They created common core to dumb down our children. They created common past to track and control us. Their commons project to make sure the commoners own nothing and the communist future. They see the common man as simple, unsophisticated, ordinary. But each of us has worth and dignity created in the image of God. That is what we have in common.

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