The David Knight Show - INTERVIEW Kidnap & Kill: Documentary Reveals FBI Lies & Tactics in Whitmer "Kidnapping" Entrapment

Episode Date: April 17, 2024

The FBI has been running these types of entrapment for a long time but the so-called plot to kidnap Gov Whitmer brought in people and tactics that were used in Jan6. Christina, KandKfilm.com, lays out how the FBI manipulated people and the process from start to trail, hiding exculpatory evidence and even putting time limits on defense attorney questions (unheard of) and gives an update on the victims.Find out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.comIf you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-showOr you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @[e-mail] App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Money is only what YOU hold: Go to DavidKnight.gold for great deals on physical gold/silverFor 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to TrendsJournal.com and enter the code KNIGHTBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-david-knight-show--2653468/support.

Earlier today, Attorney General Dana Nessel was joined by officials from the Department of Justice and the FBI to announce state and federal charges against 13 members of two militia groups who are preparing to kidnap and possibly kill me. We're grateful to the FBI and law enforcement to discover these domestic terrorists and stop them. You know, it's the sort of behavior you might expect from ISIS. You might see a number that high in a sprawling narcotics conspiracy that stretches from coast to coast and beyond. That's a pretty high number in a case like this. It really reflects, I think, how deeply the government has been diving into

this investigation to try to make these cases. It was just literally a bunch of working class guys who on the weekend got together and, you know, exercised their rights and trained with firearms. So the FBI says, hey, we'll just pay for everything. Who arranged the meeting? The FBI is paid provocateur. Robeson was getting paid to set this stuff up. So they make the route. They set the locations.

They make the plan. They do everything. And Adam's literally just sitting in the basement of a vacuum repair shop smoking blunts all day. You're going to hear that my client was the leader of this group, but I think you're also going to hear that there was an election held to identify the leader and it was Dan. How can I frame a social situation to make this naive person appear to be a dangerous, violent terrorist. The whole goal was for the FBI to spend millions of dollars to create militia groups, record them saying offensive stuff, and then frame them in a fake conspiracy. And that is a trailer for kidnap and Kill, an FBI terror plot.

You can see this at K&K Film. They spell that out A-N-D. So it's K-A-N-D-K-Film.com. And I was surprised. I had a listener suggest this to me several times. I went to look at that, and I was really surprised. I thought from the very beginning it was a classic case of the FBI acting as trying to set themselves up as hero firemen by starting a fire and then putting it out and telling everybody about it. And so it looked like the whole thing looked like a setup to me.

I believe it was. And I had seen some of the acquittals and i was surprised to see that some people have not been acquitted with this some people are still in jail some people who were acquitted spent 18 months in jail before they were found innocent so i want to talk to the filmmaker who is um uh it is a still a work in progress, and it is something that you can support as well. And there are links to how to do that to complete the production of this film. Excellent production values there. Joining us now is Christina.

Thank you for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Well, thank you. Tell us a little bit about, first of all, tell us what the state of your film is right now and how people can help this to get completed. Well, right now we were in post-production and then in post-production, you realize, you know, we still need more. We haven't gotten enough footage. You know how it goes. You know, when you're doing these things, we're traveling across the country and many times we're going to different states.

So we're trying to hit as many people as possible in one go. So everything is a rush. We need to go back and get some more B-roll, but we're very close to being done. It's been a massive project. I mean, this is years in the making. There's 14 different defendants. There were actually four trials in total. And a lot of people aren't familiar with this. They're maybe more familiar with the federal case, which involved six defendants, but there were 14 total. There were eight other guys who were charged with providing material support for terrorism, who also had their separate trials. So it is a massive project. It's a lot of work, and we're a small team. It's actually just three of us working on this.

And it is a big story, and it's gone over. There's federal cases, there's state cases, there's a lot of different things like that, and I want to get that ironed out. But tell people how they can support you to get this finished. You can just support us. We have a link for our documentary fundraiser. It is on the website. The website is kandkfilm.com. There is a section there called donate. You can support that way and you can follow our official documentary social media

account so you can get updates on the progress of where everything is standing. We are thinking that we're going to be releasing this actually in probably three parts because it's too much to put into one film. So we are focusing on getting the first part out right now. Yeah, because you've got so many different trials and federal and state areas as well. But tell us how this all began. what was the fbi doing what what why did they pick on these guys and what was it that they used as a justification to get this whole thing started official story or what really happened well both of them yeah let's hear the official story and then let's hear what really happened i'll start with the official story the official story is uh

you know a a gentleman named dan chapel who was a army veteran, came across a group online called the Wolverine Watchmen, who he said were, once he joined the group, he claimed that he saw threats of violence against law enforcement. Now, that was never documented. Interestingly enough, he becomes an informant within a week. And, you know, the FBI's official story is that two militia groups essentially came together to plot to kidnap and possibly kill Gretchen Whitmer. The story was kind of like a vague thing where they were going to somehow kidnap her from her vacation cottage, I guess, taking out her security detail. They were going to get her in a boat. And then there are several stories here. One of the stories was they were going to leave her out in the middle of the lake

to make it inconvenient for her detail to come and get her. Another story is that they were going to take her from Michigan across the lake to Wisconsin and where they were going to apparently have some kind of a show trial for her or whatever. They said that they wanted to storm capitals and start a civil war and initiate the boogaloo and all of this. And then the FBI, of course, says that they foiled this, you know, oh, we foiled the plot one month before the 2020 election, and then they congratulate themselves. Now, leaving out, of course, how the entire thing actually came together and where its origins truly lie, which it's a very long and convoluted,

complex story, so I'll just try to make it as brief as possible. The actual investigation from what we can surmise from what documents are available, because some of this stuff is still under protective seal even now, even though all of these cases are adjudicated, it appears to begin and have its origins in a 2018 to 2019 FBI operation to infiltrate the Midwest militia. And in 2019, a career criminal and also somebody who had a history of working with the FBI, a convicted child sex offender named Steve Robeson becomes an informant. And their story for him becoming an informant is that he heard quote threats of violence amongst three percenters again there's no actual documentation of this so that's for the two

main informants had two separate stories of how they became informants and they all involve these vague threats of violence that were not um that wasn't documented right there's nothing to back this up except their word and so that's the quote predicate right um Robeson actually he and this was not the FBI did not initially report this this came out much later in 2019 he was actually flagged on social media because of posts he made as part of something called Operation Bronze Griffin. I don't know if you're familiar with that, if you've heard of that. This was something social media companies were doing with the FBI, with the law enforcement community intelligence agencies, where they were

flagging certain code words or certain keywords and giving this information to law enforcement without law enforcement even having to get a warrant so yeah isn't that great that's like what bank of america did you know we got a list of people who were in jane in washington january the 6th and oh by the way uh some of these people bought guns and here's the records about that as well yeah these people it truly is amazing how they use corporations uh as an adjunct to it and then say well we don't have to have any search warrants they're just cooperating with us voluntarily right to bypass um even oversight mechanisms as well which i also find

interesting like you can't file FOIA requests on private companies so he came but he was tagged as part of this operation bronze Griffin and I believe this is actually how he becomes an informant I believe that the FBI comes to him because he had worked with the FBI as an informant in the past in the 80s when he was involved in biker gangs. This is, again, a career criminal, somebody who's a convicted child sex offender, fraudster. He was in biker gangs and things of this nature. So he becomes an informant in October of 2019. Even before that, though, he is already making contact with some of these militia types right online. And I believe that when he was flagged

in Bronze Griffin, I think they came to him about posts he made and asked him to go after other people. So he already had kind of people he was following online. There was a person, Barry Croft, who is eventually the FBI frames as a ringleader and apparently a spiritual leader of a fake kidnapping that never happened. They called him the spiritual leader. He is a middle-aged trucker from Delaware. He came on the FBI's radar because of a friend he had that was involved in guarding the border in 2014, like in a private capacity, not as part of law enforcement, who died under suspicious circumstances. So the informant Robeson starts pretending that he knew Barry's friend who passed away and makes contact with

him online and starts suggesting to him things about politicians being tyrants, starts naming governors and suggesting just provocative talk online, right? And Barry is known to be somebody that does that. The FBI had been watching him monitoring him online going back to 2017, because of a podcast he had. So they do talk about, we've seen in documents that the FBI said they gave their informant access to a database of targets. We don't know what that database is. We don't know what the criteria is for being on it, but they allowed this criminal to have access to it. And so essentially what happens is the FBI has lots of informants operating and they bring people together, right?

So during the backdrop of 2020, as you know, there's the pandemic, Michigan has the harshest lockdowns, and then there's also the mostly peaceful protests happening. So, there's a lot going on. And in Michigan, in particular, a lot of these guys, like they're home all day during this time, they can't work, they've got nothing to do, and they're angry. So they want to vent and things like that. So the FBI decides they're going to create the events to bring people together because they want something to happen. We know that one of the handling agents, Jason Chambers, decided to run it as a terrorism enterprise investigation pretty much from the beginning, well before even the FBI acknowledges that there was a quote plot.

A terrorism enterprise investigation gives them, it's the highest threat level in the FBI, gives them the ability to kind of use all of the resources that the FBI has to pursue this case. So the Wolverine Watchmen was a prepper group that was created in November of 2019 by a man named Joe Morrison and his father in law, Pete Musico. These are guys that are like working class guys. They live in Jackson County, Michigan, out in the middle of nowhere. And they kind of just like, they hang out in their backyard. They like roll around in the grass and they do target practice, right? That's like what it was. And it was a prepping group. Well, the FBI, so they create that group on Facebook in November of 2019. By March of 2020, the FBI has infiltrated their group uh using dan forman their main informant who actually was an iraq war veteran but he's kind of posing as like somebody who was part of the elite unit that

helped rescue chris kyle uh he becomes the executive officer of the group the xo basically he becomes the leader of the the wolver Watchmen, and he starts training them in tactical training. So, again, this is during these lockdowns and stuff. There's rallies that are happening that are being held. And at these rallies, the FBI is trying to bring people together. So for one event in April of 2020, there was a, I think it was called the American Patriot Rally. And this was an anti-lockdown, like pro-2A rally that occurred in Michigan at the Lansing Capitol. And the Wolverine Watchmen showed up, they were like

in their kit, they were armed. There were about 10 of them that showed up with an FBI informant. The FBI, meanwhile, is surveilling the whole thing. They have drones flying overhead at 6,000 feet watching everything. They have agents stationed in a mobile command. They're listening in in real time. informant says i think the wolverine watchmen are getting ready to do something like maybe storm the capitol so the fbi tells the lansing capitol police to stand down open the doors and let everybody in oh sounds very much like january the 6th doesn't it isn't that interesting and there's another connection too because the special agent in charge of the detroit field office at the time that this operation is being run by the FBI is a man named Stephen D'Antuono. One week after these men were arrested, October 7th of 2020, so on October 13th, he was promoted by Christopher Wray himself to be the assistant director of the Washington DC field office.

So he was in charge on January 6th. That's the one thing I remember about this. It was that connection and how it was like a little prototype to do that. As you're talking about this and talking about the mostly peaceful rallies, it really struck me that as you've got arson and other things happening all over the place with these mostly peaceful riots, that the FBI is not really interested in that. They turn a blind eye to that. Instead, they're looking for anybody who criticizes their lockdown.

And by the time you get to October, we've had seven months of this stuff, and people are pretty fed up with it, especially, as you point out, in Michigan, one of the worst places. I remember they had the, maybe it was the one that you're talking about. They had a protest there at the state capitol where they had an elderly barber i think he was in his 80s still wanted to work and he kept working so they came after him a different one but some of the watchmen were in attendance there that was uh operation um it was a haircut or something what it was called but he was giving haircuts there in front of uh whitmer's uh capital building just to say look i can still do a haircut here and i got a big crowd uh it was crazy what was happening and

yet the way the fbi would respond their business like family businesses they were losing everything like you couldn't get your haircut you couldn't they were telling you you couldn't operate a business you couldn't make money so what are you supposed to do how are you supposed to survive like they that's the other thing they kind of created the conditions like they almost like they wanted something to happen that's right and if you if you criticize that i mean here's the situation these guys are not uh putting up threatening social media posts they're just kind of talking privately right but there's a they've got somebody there who's feeding this information, who's egging it on and feeding it to the FBI. Is that correct?

Yeah. In fact, the Wolverine-Washman was never even a public group. It was a private Facebook page that had, when it was first created, maybe like 15 people in it. It grew to have over 40 people in it. But the story of how the informant even came across it, because he said that he was looking for pro to a groups online and that he claims the Facebook algorithm recommended the Wolverine Watchmen group to him. And then he had to go through like a vetting thing where they just asked a few questions. By the way, one of the questions they asked was like, are you prepared to be labeled a terrorist or a domestic terrorist or something like that? It was part of their vetting questions he must have answered yes in order to even get into their group because it was a private Facebook page and then from there they were inviting people into like their encrypted server or something so in any case uh they weren't it's not as if the fbi comes across like a crime in motion and has an informant acting

as like a listening post just reporting observing and reporting back to them they are actively creating militia groups they're creating facebook pages and administering them the fbi has what they call oces online covert employees who who operate under fake personas, right? They can have multiple fake personas. And they use those people to funnel people into these groups. And then they are creating events to bring these people together. So going back to what happened at that Capitol, the FBI used that for multiple things, right? They were using it to...

So once the guys got in, they in line went through COVID screening they got their tempesters checked they go inside the Capitol and the the media is there taking pictures of the Wolverine Watchmen there's a picture and you saw it in the trailer of the guys they're in their gear and they're standing lined up outside like they're in the Capitol and they're lined up against the wall and they're in front of a door. I'm pretty sure that Whitmer was in that room behind them. Like if they wanted to get her, they had the opportunity and the FBI allowed this to happen. They told the Lansing Capitol Police to stand down and let them in so they could get this photo op. The media runs with the story the next day about right-wing militias storming capitals. And then the Wolverine Watchmen

are seeing this and they're like, oh, wow, look at this. We made national news, global news. And then the FBI is using that coverage to get more people into to try to recruit more people into the Wolverine Watchmen. So then they go on to over the course of 2020, from March all the way up until the men are arrested on in October, the FBI is calling meetings, right? They've already taken over the Wolverine Watchmen, their informant becomes the leader of the group. He is calling meetings, and then they're inviting people to these meetings where the informants, and the FBI used a network of 12 informants here that we know about, to, at these meetings, suggest things or ask hypotheticals like, hypothetically speaking, when would it be okay to use violence? And then they're just recording your response, right? And these are people who think that they're, you know, in a

private setting where they're free to like vent. And they're also, in many cases, trying to impress each other and talk hard and things like this. And so it's just completely disgusting what they did here. And then they were doing the FTXs, which stands for field training exercise. Their informant had a joint training exercise where they brought, again, people from different states to do a training exercise where the government said they were like, they said they were planning, you know, doing like a run through of how they were going to kidnap Whitmer. They created a shoot house where the FBI alleged that these men were kind of practicing to go through her cottage and take out her security detail. They even made the claim at

one point that they modeled the shoot house after her vacation cottage, which is completely untrue. Now, the FBI is the one who arranged the FTX, who paid for it. They marketed this as like a family-friendly training exercise. And they have a little girl's birthday party at this event. They had about 40 people there. There's barbecues going, people drinking, and then they're doing this training off to the side, which was usually defensive firearms training, medical training, like there's a medical booth and tent. And these things that were happening, though, like the guys going through the shoot house, well, it comes out that the FBI informant used funds that he obtained from a fake charity he was operating while he was you know an informant

in this case to buy the supplies to make the quote kill house the shoot house and then an undercover fbi agent mark schweers who was posing as a man named mark woods admitted under oath that he helped construct it so the fbi is paying for it. They're constructing it. And then the two informants, Dan Chappell and Steve Robeson, the pedophile career criminal, are leading the training. They are taking people through it and running them through it cases, giving them training that they didn't have before, making them more lethal. So it's like, what was the purpose of this? This wasn't their idea. They're not the ones doing this, but that's how, of course, it was initially presented. And I think that they, number one, I don't think they ever thought this would go to court. I think they believe these men would take plea deals because they target people who are indigent, who basically have no ability to buy their own lawyers. These guys all had court-appointed lawyers, which is another issue.

Here's another example. The FBI claims the origins of this plot, the so-called plot to kidnap Whitmer, begin at a June 6, 2020 meeting. They called this a national attack planning meeting that they claimed was organized by Barry Croft, who they framed as a ringleader and spiritual leader. That meeting was called and shared by their pedophile informant, Steve Robeson. This was held at the Drury Inn in Columbus, Ohio. The FBI never provided the receipt to show who paid for the conference room. They won't show it. We know why. That meeting was multiple informants. There were at least three or four of them wearing recording devices, and they were disguised as like credit cards or key fobs. So it's not like the movies

where somebody is wearing physically a wire and you can pat them down or something. You would have no way of knowing. But in any case, everybody else at that meeting was targets of the FBI. The FBI was trying to get people from different states into this meeting that they were calling a national attack planning meeting. And then they had their informants saying crazy things,

right, but not too crazy. So again, during the backdrop, this is June of 2020. That night, there was a riot in Columbus, Ohio. And these informants were trying to get some of these guys to go armed into this riot. They were saying things like, they're in your backyard, give them no quarter. They're informants saying things like, you can't just take brick and mortar without a human to go with it. You've just locked yourself down

and just throwing out outlandish things. But also part of these conversations was, what would you do in a civil war scenario and so these guys just start kind of oh well if we're in a civil war scenario well of course if you know if feds try to attack me i would you know do this this like they would they're trying to talk tough they're trying to impress each other and they're saying very offensive things, but they're being hyped up, right? The other thing that's happening is some of the informants are posing as different heads

of state chapters of non-existent militia groups that were created by the FBI. And they're misrepresenting things that are happening in their states to try to instill a sense of urgency into these men that their families potentially could be attacked, or that riots could come to their town, their city, or that contact tracers might try to forcibly vaccinate them. Whatever your issue was, they'd find it, and then they would try to get you to talk about it in an inflammatory way. Then they'll just use a 17 second clip in court and play it out of context to just try to get people to convict these people based on things they said, and then video clips of them running through what was

essentially obstacle courses created for them by the FBI while the FBI had a videographer filming them doing these trainings you can see in the discovery and they played it at court video of them at the Cambria FTX which again was put on by the FBI and they had a video of them at the Cambria FTX, which again was put on by the FBI. And they have a video of middle-aged Barry, the truck driver in his fifties doing the barrel training. And they just play little clips of these guys with their kits on running around with these big guns. And it looks scary for people who don't understand what they're looking at. But to me, it's like, so we heard about OPSEC, that these guys were dangerous because they talked in encrypted rooms or they would ask people to put their phones in a container before they have their little meetings. They said, oh, they were employing OPSEC to throw off feds. So they must have been doing something wrong, right? As if there aren't

legitimate reasons for maybe wanting privacy and not to be, I don't know, recorded by your phone or whatever. But at the same time that they're saying they employed OPSEC and were sophisticated, they have a videographer filming them at an FTX, running around filming them and taking pictures. And then the FBI is saying, well, they were planning, this was them, you know, practicing taking out her security detail. So why would they have people filming them doing this then? Does that make sense? It doesn't really make sense. What makes more sense and what all of these people have said from the beginning was that they thought they were being invited to what is common in these militia groups to attend, to do FTXs, to do defensive firearms training. Land navigation training, the medical training, like they're thinking they're doing completely perfectly legal, lawful things. They have their legally owned firearms.

They don't understand like what is going on here. And that's literally what happened this entire time. And it sounds like they've got just than that. They're building up this whole idea. You know, they got assault weapons and it's a lot of it is based on the appearance of the things, you know, the semi-automatic weapons. But look, it's scary. And the clothing clothing is scary and the photo ops are scary as you point out they they bring them in so they can take pictures of them whitmer's just in the next room but they don't do anything about that uh we've seen this type of thing over and over again and

of course you know one of the classic things about this was the trust that was run by the bolsheviks when they took over russia and they roped in all of their opponents that way. Now, their goal was to lure people back to Russia where they could put them in jail or kill them. But here, I think the goal is really to intimidate people. Don't say anything. Don't even think anything negative about the government. Even after they've locked you down for months and months at a time, don't even think anything negative about the government even after they've locked you down for months and months at a time don't get frustrated and say anything you better be quiet about it and they released all this stuff while the pandemic lockdown was still going on this was the the beginning of october and before the election they really wanted to intimidate any

kind of pushback against it but it it's also what the FBI has become. They've really become a federal bunch of bureaucrats to instigate things. That's really what they are. And we've seen this over and over again. Talk a little bit about the obstacles that you had in terms of doing your investigation, because you pointed out, and I've not heard this before, that you can't get a Freedom of Information Act request on a private company. What other types of things did they have as obstacles?

And what was it like when you're trying to get information about what they did? I'm sure it was every obstacle you can imagine. I'm still trying to get information about what they did. It's been very difficult because the case is so massive, right? And there's so many different parts. It's just difficult to put the pieces together on its own, but they don't make it easy, right? I have multiple FOIA requests into the FBI. I don't anticipate getting a response anytime soon. Typically, you have to

actually pursue them with litigation to force them to comply with these things. Some of them are more broad, but some of them are very narrow and specific. So there's no reason that that shouldn't be responded to in the appropriate time. A lot of the discovery is still kept under protective seal. So there's a lot of- And what is the justification? What's the justification for keeping this

under protective seal? Because we've had trials of everybody, right? Are there still some pending trials that are there no no just the appeals now so they'll use that they'll say that um but this information most of it is still under protective seal and the thing that is that is so frustrating to me is we know some of it right like we have the the defense tried to get in a lot of exculpatory statements that came from the same undercover audio of these FTXs of these meetings, where some of them were five hours long, lots of things were talked about during that time. But the government was able

to just get these little clips in and the defense has some leeway, right? They can go a couple minutes before and after, but they cannot capture the totality. So something that was said maybe earlier, they would try to get in an exculpatory statement and the judge used this hearsay ruling to say that anything basically that was exculpatory said on these recordings was hearsay. How is it hearsay when you're playing that that's literally them, that's what they said on recording and the same event? How can you say some of the audio, anything that is incriminating can be used and played by the government out of context in 17 second clips or a minute and 17 seconds here or there. But then other things are hearsay.

It's absurd, but that's what happened. So there were times where, you know, the informants would be suggesting provocative things and these guys would respond saying no, immediately shutting it down. At one point, Paul Beller, he says something like, we're not going to be black bagging politicians, taking them out of their cars, trying to get arrest warrants for them. We're not going to be dealing with that or doing it. He actually leaves the Wolverine Watchmen in July of 2020. He creates his own group, which the FBI called a ghost group. And in it, he specifically outlines, we are defensive in nature only, because he didn't like some of the rhetoric coming from what we now know were FBI informants who had essentially taken over the Wolverine Watchmen. He actually moves from Michigan in August, the next month after leaving the group, creating his own group, reiterating that they're literally defensive training only, he moves to South Carolina, leaves the state completely.

They arrest him anyway, even though they acknowledge in their documents there was no, quote, slot until September of 2020. Wow. And so what is the status? Let's talk about him specifically. What is his status? It was never a flop. Let's talk about him specifically. What is his status? Was he acquitted? Is he in jail? No, no.

He's in jail. So I'd love to talk about Paul for a minute here because he's a great kid. This is somebody who, like his dad was in law enforcement when he was 14 years old. He joins the Milford Fire Department as a volunteer. As a teenager, while he's in high school, he's doing first responding calls. He's working with the fire department at 17 years old. He joins the army. And so this is somebody who like, he's a great person. He wants to help everything help everything right he wants to help people but also at a young age this is somebody who's seen a lot some of the first responding

calls he went to are things that nobody should see but especially like a teenager he probably shouldn't have been going to some of these calls at one point they left him in a burning building alone uh which is just insane and like these are obviously things that still have traumatized him and are still with him because he still talks about and has strong memories of it um when he was in the army they give you i think they call it a bunker buddy or something you have a essentially somebody that you go through basic training with that is your assigned buddy and you two are supposed to be you're supposed to go together right and that's supposed to be your buddy forever basically his he got um discharged for medical reasons but his friend, his buddy went on to die. And this is something

he still thinks about and that still bothers him. But anyway, so this is somebody who's like, he's been through a lot, right? As a young guy, as a young man, and he's a good person who's trying to help people who served our country. And this is what they do to him. He was arrested when he was 21 years old. Again, for what? They said providing material support for terrorism. How did he provide material support? He was part of a group that the FBI infiltrated and took over. And then he attended a couple events that the FBI put on and set up, and in some cases paid for. Oh, he did a medical training at one place and you know during one of these events at the Cambria I believe Cambria FTX when the guy started going

through and the FBI was running them through the shoot house Paul left he said I don't see how this is really defensive training so I'm going to go out and sit in my car. You know, they had their informant, Dan, come out and sit in the car with him at some point. But there's nothing you could look at to say he did anything or he knew anything about any kind of plot at all. There's nothing there, but they try them, they bind their cases together and they try them as a group. So for the state guys, he was one that got state charges. And by the way, he just turned 25 in federal prison, even though he was not convicted federally. These guys were charged at the state level for quote, providing material support. And yet all three of them on the eve of their appeals, they were moved from michigan to federal bop facilities across the country wow that's where we stand with this young man right now currently being tampered with he's

been in jail now for four years from 21 to 25 and um a federal jail uh what are they what is the sentence that he's been given how long long? He could be incarcerated until 2063. What? That's amazing. That's absolutely incredible. I got a comment here from guard Goldsmith. Good to see you guard. And thank you for the tip.

He says, thank you for this conversation, David. She and her friends on this project are shining examples of people who are dedicated to exposing government wrongdoing. I'm going to donate to the film right away. Well, thank you, Gardner. I appreciate that.

And, you know, Christina, it is very important. We've seen this over and over again. And years and years ago, we had Judge Napolitano talk about case after case after case where the FBI has done this. But people need to see the details. They need to see the faces, the lives that have been destroyed, and understand that this is standard operating procedure from this rogue agency that has been doing this type of thing for a long time and still doing it. And it seems like it's getting more extensive. Yeah.

Oh, I would say. Yeah. They've been doing this, I would say, from their inception. Yeah. Yeah, they've been doing this, I would say, from their inception. Yeah. I think that they're a rogue agency that serves, you know, themselves. And I think they use these cases to bolster themselves, to expand their agency. Did you know that the FBI just got their approval for their new headquarters, which is going to be in Maryland, and it's going to be two times the size of the Pentagon. Well, what are they doing with all of that? Obviously, they're going to be expanding

the FBI. They're going to be hiring more people. Why do we need the FBI to do this? We've got 72 fusion centers across the country that are DHS FBI fusion centers. They work with local state law enforcement. Why on earth would we need more FBI when this is what they're doing? They're telling us that white supremacist, right-wing domestic terrorists are the biggest threat this country faces. And if that were the case, then I just have to wonder why they have to manufacture these cases so much and to such a comical degree i mean in the whitmer case you had more fbi than actual defendants okay um and then the lengths that they went to to make these trials essentially show trials kangaroo courts the different uh so yeah you're saying this is this has been done for a very long time we've seen them put themselves in charge with uh kkk organizations and stuff like that where they're running everything they're funding everything they're running the trials the government is running the trial they pick your court-appointed lawyer they're picking the jury and then you your

court-appointed lawyer and then the prosecutors get to whittle it down and then that's apparently a fair trial or a fair process um it's just crazy to me and like in this case in particular they had their first trial which was the federal case against the six men. They coerced one guy into taking a plea deal. He incidentally had an FBI lawyer, like a lawyer who is former FBI, who got him a deal. He never this kid took a plea deal. He was the first person to plead in this case and he's already out of jail. Like I don't see that he's ever been in the Bureau of Prison. Like he doesn't show up on their website. Unlike Caleb Franks, who was the other guy who took a plea deal in this case. So there's like a lot of weird things with this, but essentially the first trial ends in zero convictions.

Two men are acquitted. Well, you can't have these other guys who are facing state charges of providing material support for terrorism if there's no terrorist act. So if they didn't win that first case against the six guys federally, they can't get the other eight. So they retried the jury um they acquitted brandon caserta and daniel harris but they had a mistrial on adam and barry who were the two men framed as the ringleaders so the government retries adam and barry and at the retrial they limited so much like they put time limits on the defense lawyers for questioning the people, the guy who took a plea deal and they didn't put time limits on the prosecutor. And this is something I've never seen happen before. Even this media were saying, we've never heard of this Birtleman's

rule being applied to this. It was like a, it was something that was done in a case that involved like a hundred different third party defendants that was going to take a long time to limit it. So the trial wouldn't last forever. In this case, the retrial was already going along like shorter than the projected two and a half weeks it was going to take. There was no reason to do that except to prejudice the case. The judge also, while he was imposing time limits, he started giving the defense lawyers a countdown, two minutes left. He would say things like, you really want to waste your time with this crap line of questioning. He would make disparaging

comments to the defense in front of the jury. And so you're just looking at this going, how is this a real thing? This isn't a real trial. These people weren't allowed to introduce any evidence. They couldn't have anybody testify on their behalf because the government threatened every single defense witness. They actually called them unindicted co-conspirators. So there were a lot of people who showed up to these meetings and FTXs that for whatever reason, they weren't charged because the government didn't have enough information or uh you know surveillance of them to frame them in this case so they called them unindicted co-conspirators that could be under investigation and could face future charges if they accidentally incriminate themselves in any way so they intimidated that's witness tampering they intimidated one by one every defense witness that got on the stand.

They told them they're an unindicted co-conspirator that could potentially face charges. What do you think is going to happen? And a judge let this occur. Well, you know, I've seen this covering the Bundy Ranch situation, how they will not allow exculpatory evidence to be used. I also saw it in the case of Ross Ulbrich with Silk Road. But with the Bundy situation, no, you can't ask that. You can't ask them this question. You've got a picture of people that are cowering down on the other side of a concrete barrier.

What are they afraid of on the other side? You can't ask that question, you know, because the people on the other side with the BLM who are threatening to shoot people who were there. You know, so you can't ask exculpatory evidence. They they they they shut this thing off and they would have gotten the people at the Bundy Ranch thing if there hadn't been a whistleblower within the BLM that exposed that. But, of course, that's what the FBI is always about. Jagger Hoover is a master, was a master showman. That's how he got into.

That's how he got the FBI that's how he got the FBI, you know, running the Palmer raids and everything. So he's always been about, you know, doing his own TV shows to project this heroic image of the agency. And yet people need to understand the reality of it. It surprises me that so many conservatives think this is something that just happened.

As you point out, it's been there for a very, very long time. And people need to understand the truth about the FBI. This is a rogue agency that, like the rest of the federal government, like the IRS, they're going to grow to be five to seven times bigger than it is. The FBI doubling the size of their headquarters. It's absolutely amazing how the police state is metastasizing before our very eyes, and yet we're caught up in all of this back and forth about political personalities at the top who will do nothing about any of this stuff. It truly is an amazing situation that we're in, and they're doing a wonderful job of distracting people.

That's why what you're doing is very, very important. Again, the film is K&KFilm.com. That stands for Kidnap and Kill. You're still in the process of putting it together, getting close to the end. And if people want to support this and make sure this gets through, they can go to that website, K&KFilm.com, and you can find places where people can support it. We've still got some more time. So tell us a little bit about what has happened and the current status of all these different people. I know we had four different trials. Some people have been acquitted. Some people have been there now for years.

We had people who got acquitted after being in jail for 18 months. What about a speedy trial? Nothing there. And we've seen that now with January 6th people, but kind of give us a fill in. A lot of the names are not going to be familiar to people, but kind of give us a fill in. A lot of the names are not going to be familiar to people, but kind of just an overview of how this kind of broke down. Sure. So there were four trials, as I said, two men were acquitted federally, and then they had the first state trial. All of those men, unfortunately, were convicted. The jury deliberated for less than four hours, which is insane. They didn't even look at the evidence. Then they had a final state trial where the last three men were acquitted, the Null brothers

and Eric Mulliter. So that's five acquittals total. Daniel Harris, Brandon Caserta, Eric Mulliter, Bill Null, and Michael Null. Unfortunately, we still have five men wrongfully incarcerated. The two men framed as ringleaders, Adam Fox, he just turned 41. He's in Florence Supermax. Adam had no criminal record. He was vulnerable when this happened. He was homeless. He was living in the basement of the vac shack when the FBI set upon him and preyed upon him and then framed him as a ringleader

when he wasn't in charge or leading anything. The FBI actually inducted him into a fake militia group. They created the fake national militia called the Patriot Three Percenters. They had their pedophile informant posing as a national commander who told Adam, Adam was gonna be the head of a Michigan chapter of a fake militia group,

gave him business cards, which the FBI then used as evidence against him later when they seized it after they raided his basement area, which is ridiculous. He had no criminal record. He is the sweetest person. If you meet him, you talk to his family. He had a dog named Bruno that he loved. That was who he was. And what they did to him was horrible. For him to be in Florence Supermax right now is criminal. Also, these men have to pay fines. The court imposes these insane, like he has to pay $250,000 in restitution. You know who has to pay that? The families. That's who has to pay a 250 000 in restitution you know who has to pay that the families that's who has to pay it because any money that these families put in commissary for these men so they can have toothpaste so they can have a winter jacket or you know experience something pleasant

while they're incarcerated for something they didn't do like a cup of ramen noodles they take their money out of the commissary. They'll deduct a certain amount each month that they say is for restitution, and that the amount keeps changing and it keeps going up. Right now, Adam's family has to pay $175 a month just for his restitution in his commissary. Then they're trying to put a little bit in there so he has something. But what's going on as criminal? The Sixth Circuit is taking up their appeals. Well, we don't know yet. They're going to hear oral arguments on it. That is scheduled for May 2nd for Adams. It's going to

be in Nashville. I'm not really sure why it's going to be in Nashville and not Columbus, Ohio, where the Sixth Circuit is. But in any case, that's what's going on there. He's not even really talked to his appeals lawyer who was court appointed. Barry, who was also framed as the ringleader and a spiritual leader, he was initially put into Terre Haute. He's now in Florence Supermax. Barry is a middle-aged truck driver. He's a father of three. He's got three little girls who need who need him who need their father um I was the last person to speak with Adam and Barry when they were convicted in the retrial I was interviewing them and you'll see this in the documentary their last interviews at Nuevo County I actually got statements from them for the weaponization

committee and the day after I published Barry's statement, Adam and Barry were both moved out of Nuevo County immediately to Supermax's. Adam was sent to Florence, Barry was sent to Terre Haute. And this was right after their sentencing, which is a little unusual. It usually takes some time to process them out. They also mentioned an interview Barry and I had done at his sentencing where they called him unrepentant and completely radicalized, which is absurd because he hadn't, quote, taken responsibility for something he didn't do. So that's Adam and Barry. Now, the Sixth Circuit also has scheduled oral arguments for Barry's appeal. I don't have the most confidence in these appeals attorneys. I'll just be honest. Adam's appeals lawyer is a former prosecutor. And if you read his appellate brief,

it reads like the government wrote it. And he concedes that Adam had a predisposition because of things he was saying online, where he's literally just repeating things that the informants in the FBI were telling him. I'm sorry, that's not predisposition to me. He has no criminal record. He has no criminal history. That would suggest a predisposition to committing a crime if you actually had a violent history. Now, the other three men who are incarcerated is Pete Musico, Joe Morrison, and Paul Bellar. Paul was the young man I told you about who volunteered

at the Milford Fire Department who just turned 25. He is in federal prison in Pennsylvania. Joe Morrison is a young father of two. He just turned, I think, 30 in prison. He is in Illinois. Pete is his father-in-law. He is a middle-aged father, grandfather. He is in West Virginia. So that's five still incarcerated. The two men framed as ringleaders are in Supermax prisons in Florence. The last three were in Michigan MDOC facilities because they were not convicted federally. They were charged at the state level with providing material support, felony firearms, and gang affiliation because apparently now militias are gangs. Yeah. Uh, yeah. They demonized that term, haven't they?

Yeah. All three of those men. You mentioned the weaponization committee. You mentioned the weaponization committee. Uh, is that the congressional weaponization of uh the government that you're talking okay yeah and how was that received did they you is that uh anything you think is going to come out not responded to me at all whatsoever i've tried multiple avenues by the way to get information to them and uh i don't think they have any intention of actually investigating real weaponization yeah Yeah. They're interested in going after like Hunter Biden, you know, for this nonsense that like nobody cares about,

or they talk about themselves being targeted for quote censorship online. Like no one cares about that. Okay. We care about people like this who are good people, working class men, family men who have been ripped from their families and thrown into a cage for something they didn't do so that the FBI could influence an election, could try to encourage political violence in the lead up to said election

and then continue to play these games while congratulating themselves on the back and using it to justify further budget increases for them and expansion of the already ridiculous powers they have. Yeah, and it's to intimidate. It's very sad. I think it's to intimidate dissent as well. We're going to run just a little bit over because we've got less than a minute. I want to get your answer. How did you get involved in this? Because you're very, there's so much work involved in this. How did you get involved in this because you're very uh there's so much work involved in this uh how did

you get involved in doing this documentary it's so funny because i actually am just a like a kind of like a stay-at-home mom but i also do like independent journalism in my free time of things that i think are important interesting and that i care about when the story broke uh i had already been investigating patCon. So like what the FBI was doing with Ruby Ridge, Waco, Oklahoma City. And I immediately knew that there was something wrong here. So I was reporting on it on my own. And when Brandon was acquitted, I reached out to him to ask him if I could interview him. And I sent him some of my articles that I'd written while he was incarcerated for 18 months. And he said,

okay. So I interviewed him and just talking to him, I realized there was so much I didn't know. And I listened in every single day. I was literally transcribing it almost word for word, what was being said every single day. And then I was publishing my articles. There was so much I didn't know that I learned just from talking to him. I was like, you know what, we really need to make a documentary here because this story is so big. It's so important. And there's so much about it. Like people think they know what happened here. They don't. There's so much information that people still don't know that they'll find out about in the documentary. But that's how I got involved. I had no production company.

I had no experience making documentaries. I just had a lot of passion and I was able to, you know, crowdsource and crowdfund it as I go. And that's how I started it. Well, that's the way to do it. Absolutely. And we've had so many of these things. It is so important for people to see how this machinery works.

We need to see how the sausage is made. It's very ugly and it could get anybody trapped in this net at any point in time. So everybody needs to understand this again. It is K and K film dot com. You can see the trailer there. You can support the effort. And thank you so much for what you're doing, Christina. I really do appreciate great work. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, so much for what you're doing, Christina. I really do appreciate it. Great work. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, folks, for joining us. Have a good day. Let me tell you, the David

Knight Show, you can listen to with your ears. You can even watch it by using your eyes. In fact, if you can hear me, that means you're listening to The David Knight Show right now. Yeah, good job. And you want to know something else? You can find all the links to everywhere to watch or listen to the show at thedavidknightshow.com.

That's a website.