The David Knight Show - INTERVIEW Lesser Magistrate & Rebuilding Society, Grassroots Up

Episode Date: June 20, 2023

Matt Trewhalla, author of "The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrate" DefyTyrants.com, and the framework for taking back and rebuilding our society. There have been successes in county GOP parties being taken back by the people, sheriffs open to their role, interposing against unlawful orders.Find out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.comIf you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-showOr you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @[e-mail] App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Money is only what YOU hold: Go to DavidKnight.gold for great deals on physical gold/silverFor 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to TrendsJournal.com and enter the code KNIGHTBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-david-knight-show--2653468/support.

Matt Trujillo is on with us. His book is The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrate. I just, and I said last week, Matt, thank you for joining us, by the way. Hey, good to be here with you, David. I told my wife, I said, we got to get Matt back on again because somebody sent me a letter and they said, well, I'm studying such and such a class and, you know, they got some really strong stuff here from Romans 13 and from first Peter that really bothering me. And he says, I remember you talked about this. And so I gave him your information. You can find the book at defy tyrants.com. Is that correct? Did I get that right?

That's correct. Good. Yeah. Get it there. I mean, you can get it at Amazon, but you know, cut Amazon out of the loop here and go straight to Matt. He's got some additional goodies there for you if you go to defytyrants.com. But before we talk about that, let's talk a little bit about California. You went there with an event and trying to get fathers to stand up in protection of their sons and daughters in California against the insanity that's being pushed there with this drag queen stuff. Tell us a little bit about that. No, I wasn't there myself. Oh, I thought you were. Okay. I put it together. What it was, was in Glendale, which is northern

Los Angeles, a suburb of Los Angeles. They were pushing the drag queen filth, the transgenderism, the usual sodomite bucket of filth upon the students there. And these Armenian fathers came out. Oh, yes. And there were hundreds of them because they were having none of it. Well, Antifa came out, and Antifa wanted to protect, supposedly, the school board from these Armenian fathers. They support every leftist dog thing that happens in our country, of course. They're the street thugs for the thugs who wear the suits at the lawmaking assemblies, right? Yep. And so they ended up in a fistfight that was unbelievable.

And police were there, scores of police, trying to break this up. It was pretty incredible. In fact, there's another meeting coming up in Riverside this evening. And Antifa's... We hung up there for a second. Yeah yeah i've talked about this many times and it's um i had a cameraman saying they're bringing those armenian fathers yeah we froze up there a little bit uh so yeah repeat what you just said there i thought we'd lost you for a second so they're having another meeting tonight that's what you're saying you're having a meeting tonight and tifa's bringing in hundreds of uh people they're saying this time wow and so we'll see what happens this

evening but for me david it was just refreshing to see fathers and men act like fathers and men that's right there's a cameraman that i met at the dnc he was working for npr at the time but he was a listener to a program that I did. And so he saw me and he came over and introduced himself to me. We've been talking since then. He's from Armenia and he's an Armenian Christian. And of course, that was the first place where we had the term genocide talked about. And it was in Turkey where the Turks tried to kill all of the Christians there in that Armenian genocide. They're very strong.

They understand what persecution is like. They've been hardened in the fire of trials and persecution, and these guys are not going to put up with that kind of stuff. And so he was telling me all about this. He says, you've got to cover this. And I did mention it, but I didn't talk about it a great deal. But you always see, as you point out, you always got the Antifa people always allied with this kind of stuff.

And that's one of the reasons why I call it, Matt, I call it the Sodom-go-Marxist curriculum, because it's kind of like Sodom and Gomorrah, except it's the Sodomists and the Marxists unified, pushing in the schools, the critical race theory and all the rest of this Marxist stuff, along with the degeneracy that seems to come hand in hand with it, always. Yes. Yeah, in fact, I'll send you over some clips after the show, the footage of the battle that took place there with these fathers and these leftist thugs, because it's very powerful to see what took place. And we should remember, too, Armenia was the first country to embrace Christianity as a nation when Gregory converted King Terradetti's to the Christian faith. So this was in 301 AD. They were the first, because you understand, David, the early churchmen and the early missionaries, they understood that god's law and word was for the individual but it was also for nations and they would regularly quote psalm uh two to the

magistrates themselves because god's word does speak to every area of life including the area of civil government and so the churchmen and the missionaries knew they had a duty to bring god's thoughts regarding civil government to the civil magistrates. That's all been lost on churchmen in our day, of course. And that's why we're in the morass we're in now, where evil is now good and good is evil. And yeah, have you noticed we live in an insane asylum? Yeah, that's right. Just from a practical standpoint, you know, I mean, even when Nietzsche said God is dead, he was looking at it and saying, that's going to be bad. I don't believe in God, but things are going to get really bad. And they did, you know, I mean, even when Nietzsche said, uh, God is dead, he was looking at it and saying, that's going to be bad. I don't believe in God, but things are going to get really bad.

And they did, you know, we had Nazi Germany and the rest of the nation was devastated by that. Even from a pragmatic standpoint, your law is going to be based on something. It's going to be based on some moral foundation, some religion or something. And of course, secular humanism is a kind of religion. They've got their gods and they fiercely worship them, don't they? But you're always going to have some kind of system of values that are going to be there. And we can see what happens, the total chaos and anarchy, as well as

the depravity that happens when you remove that. It's one of the reasons why, Matt, I was absolutely amazed to see Ted Cruz jump in. Of course, he was virtue signaling for politics and saying, well, I don't like this Ugandan law. They're going to put people in prison for homosexuality, and they're going to execute people for aggravated homosexuality, whatever that means. He didn't bother to look it up. who are pedophile rapists and, you know, rapists, people who are raping people who are on drugs or disabled or anything like that. That's what they called aggravated homosexuality and giving them the death penalty. And he got in an argument with a pastor who said, look, this is God's principle. And he goes, well, are you going to stone kids for disobeying their parents and that type of thing. He says, well, what you're saying is that God's law is wrong, that God got it wrong when he set up these different dividing lines.

And I think that's where we are right now. Ted Cruz has been completely silent as you had a massacre of Ugandan kids by Muslim terrorists. They have an organization that came from a neighboring. It was right there on the border, but it's an organization called the ADF. And they came in and they burned alive 40 some odd students in a Christian school that was there. And he's been totally silent about that, as has the Biden administration, but they were completely upset about the fact that they'd passed a law to intimidate homosexuality that was there and has not been enforced at all. But they were absolutely livid about that, have nothing to say about Christians being

mass murdered, burned to death by Muslim terrorists there in Uganda, same country. Yeah, no, the ganging up onanda was absolutely despicable to see by conservatives and by churchmen overwhelmingly from america condemning what's going on in uganda meanwhile over in america we're talking about um children mutilating their genitals yes and here's something i've run into again and again david um You know, I have a lot of interaction with the magistrates, and I've been at a number of things as an invited guest where people are running for school board, and then they have Q&A. And when you watch the Q&A, they're all running because everyone, where I go anyway, they're running because this has gone too far. You know, now we have genital mutilation of children, but they all start out this way.

Here's what they say, David. They say, now I have nothing against gay people and I have nothing against gay marriage or gay couples. But, and then they go into that, not realizing the only reason we're talking about children's genitals being mutilated is because you've already impugned the law of God regarding homo sex. You cannot separate the two. We're here talking about mutilation of children's genitals because in all our arrogance and pride, we've spit on the law of God and said, no, like you said, we know better than you, God. We're smarter than you.

And so we're going to legalize what you called something to be criminalized. That's right. And I saw along that same line, Matt, people, somebody on the left, went back and found that in 2020, on Trump's campaign website, he was pushing pride clothing here. All the rainbow stuff here, Make America Great Again in rainbow colors and Make America Great Again rainbow cap that's white instead of red.

I have another one, Trump Pride 2020, repeated over and over again in different colors. The responses that I saw to that, Matt, were people defending Trump and they said, well, what you all don't get is we're not hypocrites because this isn't about being pushed. I don't see any children's sizes there. It's like, really?

Are you that clueless that you don't understand that? When I looked at that and I saw those people's responses to it, I told my wife, I said, you know, I remember when it was a groundbreaking thing that Elizabeth Taylor broke up Debbie Reynolds family, right? And my parents were naive about it in the sense that they didn't understand just how bad all of Hollywood was, Debbie Reynolds included. But, you know, that was something that was out there very publicly. And they would not go to Elizabeth Taylor movies. I couldn't go to Elizabeth Taylor movies, right?

They're going to ostracize and boycott her movies because of that. That's where people were at that point in time. And that was a heterosexual thing. But you start with that kind of an attitude, and before you know it, you've got President Trump bragging about how he threw his first wife under the bus, and look at how beautiful this wife is. She's a much better model, that type of thing.

And then from there, you go to the homosexuality. Then from there, you go to the children. It is a spectrum of this stuff. And it all begins by thumbing your nose at God's law, as you point out, and by taking the sex out of the bedroom and putting it up on the big screen and putting it out on the streets in front of kids and all the rest of this stuff. This is what we've been facing my entire life. And I look at this and it's like, you know, we've normalized this for a very long time. Why are we surprised that it's gotten to this point of degeneracy? Because it's been about sex for a very long time. All my life, they've been going down this path. Absolutely. And I think it's noteworthy, in 2016, yeah vlog cabin club did not endorse donald trump even when he was just up against hillary they didn't endorse him but they did in

2020 yes and so we see this shift that took place where donald trump decided to go with the whole homosexual horde. And he is looking to wicked men to help him get elected. And unfortunately, most Christians and conservatives are willing to support someone who isn't supportive of wicked men in order to save themselves from evil that's right um and so they vote for the lesser of two evils and of course we've seen how that's gone i've listened to that for the last 40 years of my life we gotta vote for the lesser of two evils and i've noticed the lesser of two evils just keeps getting more evil and look where we're at now the lesser of two evils gets greater and greater evil it is It is. And you've pointed out in 2020, you know, Melania cut a video. I've played it here many times where she's bragging about the fact that Trump came in supporting same-sex mirage.

You had Tiffany saying he's always loved the LGBT. You had Rick Grinnell cut an ad for him saying, you know, I'm homosexual. He put me in as I think as director of national intelligence or something. He said, I couldn't get that job under Biden. You know, listen to what Biden used to say about this stuff. Of course, Biden has changed as well. They've all moved on that issue. And at the same time that Biden held his big gathering and party at the White House,

passing a bill to a federal law to legalize same-sex marriage. You had, yeah, you had at Mar-a-Lago, you had Trump throwing a big party for all them. Kerry Lake was there as well. I mean, it's just, when are people going to wake up to where he is on any issue? You know, it's not just even that issue. It's on guns, it's on the vaccine and all the rest of this stuff. It's just amazing to me to see how this goes.

But at the same time, I want to get your comment about this. When I was talking about marriage, we just had promise keepers. This is after I saw this stuff and I was talking about, yeah, you know, we've been on the slippery slope, Hollywood and culture and all the rest of this stuff for a long time. We now have promise keepers kicked out of a rejected by Christian school. They're going to have a meeting there. They said, well, we don't like your take on biblical marriage. This is a school that portrays itself as being Christian in Nashville,

which is rapidly becoming like Austin, in my opinion. I want to look at it. But they said, we don't like your position on traditional marriage. Promise Keepers is a men's organization to underscore that what they're having is a rally to tell people, remain faithful to your wife and to your family and all this kind of stuff. And now you've got a Christian school, Belmont University in Nashville, doesn't want them there because of that. Yes. Now, when you read the book of Genesis and you go into the Sodom and Gomorrah account, one of the things you notice is that when evil is tolerated within a culture, it affects everybody.

It impacts all the people. I mean, you even look at Lot's own sons-in-laws and daughters. They mocked him for what he was saying and about leaving and all that kind of thing his wife wanted to look back one last time to see if the mall was still there you know and she turns into a pillar of salt and so you see the bad effect and then what happened with lot afterwards of course you see the bad effect of it all. Evil has to be confronted. You have to engage. One of the things I tell people is you have to speak. And you need to go to the school board meetings. You need to go to the county board meetings, to the state house, and you have to denounce these evil things.

Because if you don't speak, evil just invades and pervades and takes over every inch of territory most people are afraid to speak I'm telling you we have to speak it's massively and we need to honor God yeah in our speaking yeah and so it's extremely important that people begin to do that um I did a sermon recently this month and called Sodom in America and I gave people three things to do in that sermon you know i kind of went through some of the history especially for the younger people and i found out most of the older people don't know a lot of the history i talked about either some of which you were mentioning also about mar-a-lago and stuff and um so in there the three things i said

is number one we need to um properly define love to this nation. So I shared a story. I was out at Pride Fest here in Milwaukee the day before this sermon two weeks ago. And three young guys came up and they said, you know, what's wrong with two people loving each other? And I said, well, you have to define what love is. And I said, love is defined by the law of god and if you divorce the ethic of love from the law of god you can use the ethic of love to justify anything including two men or two women marrying each other the long word of god defines what love is jesus said when he was asked what the

great commandments were he said to love the lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. And then he said this, as he continued to talk, he said, upon those two commandments, hang all the law and the prophets. Love is defined by the law and word of God. That's something not only lost on this complete culture, and I explained to him, you know, how to love your neighbor is seen there. You don't commit adultery. You don't steal their stuff. You don't covet their things and all this type of stuff. And the church also has lost this, David, where they don't even know how love is defined because they've thrown the law of God under the bus also. So we're going to complete insane asylum at this time. Yeah, and as Christ said, if you love me, keep my commandments.

And we're not talking about – and that's the other thing too. Everything is about sex. And so people think love, sex, love, sex. But it was C.S. Lewis, I think, that had the four different loves. You understand that in the Greek language, it's like the Eskimos have 20 different words for different types of snow, right? Well, the Greeks had four different words that are translated with the one English word love. And so you had phileo, which is like brotherly love, like Philadelphia. You had storge, which is like a family love. You had eros, which is sexual love, and then you have agape, which is the kind of unconditional love that God shows us, that we show children as parents and that type of thing. These are very

different concepts. And you can have brotherly love with somebody, but that's completely different from eros. And so, again, we have lost this and this dumbing down of the culture. But, you know, the thing that I think is interesting is the fact that in Promise Keepers, they were talking about several different types of love, you know, for your wife. So you've got Eros, you've got Storge, the family, and all this kind of stuff, even a brotherly type of love, even agape, all that is involved in the marriage because that's a picture of our relationship with christ and yet you know the promise keepers are not allowed in the christian university now to talk about that because they're totally focused on erotic sexual love and because

they want to have license to do whatever they wish with that and they've completely lost the plot. It's just amazing. Yes, it is amazing. One of the things I wanted to mention to you, David, is there's a revolt of the counties going on, and it's exciting to watch. Regarding this doctrine of the lesser magistrates, people have flooded into county and local government, and that was one of the three things I had in my sermon from two weeks ago on three things we can do. The second was fishers of men. First, define love properly. Second, be fishers of men. And then the third was this matter of continue to take over counties,

take over the GOP, county by county by county. The structure is already there. If you try to start a third party, you're up against a huge wall because those two parties have structured things so that they will. It's, it's been tried before. No one's broken through the cabal in the past.

Let's put it that way. Yeah. And even at the state party level, they've got a lot of, you know, walls in that as well. It's a fight just to get at the county level and it will be a fight to get at the county level but you pretty much forget about it

the national or state level as well as a third party i know because i've been in that third party thing i know how they've got the the barriers set up there yeah same here i've had that experience so i say take the apparatus that's already there take it over and like here in wisconsin we've seen we've taken over eight county great parties um in the last year and by truly people who love christ love freedom in the true sense of the word um very encouraging to see it's happening in minnesota it's happening in michigan big time in michigan also in other states around the nation so i think it's what i've been seeing is the fact that this reformation or this revolution is taking place at the county level and when you look at the history

of the founding of our nation of course that, that started at the county level. You had the Suffolk Resolves that were published in September 9th of 1774. Other counties immediately joined suit, Mecklenburg County on down the line. So it started at the grassroots county level, the entire american revolution it wasn't like these big guys got together over in philadelphia and started there and then it trickled down it had all started at the county level and here we're seeing the same thing now right now out in oregon you've had 12 counties now vote to leave oregon and to join Idaho. And this is the furthest in my lifetime that I've seen such efforts get this far, where the Idaho legislature has already accepted the fact that they're willing to entertain these counties coming into their state.

Of course, Oregon has to agree to let them go, and we know what leftists are like. But it's all tuning up for a battle. Yeah. All tuning up for a battle. Well, we need to show them the path. Everybody is frustrated with this, and they need to understand there is a way to do that, and that's where your book is so valuable. You know, you're talking about we've got to stand up and we've got to speak out.

We had a lot of people standing up and speaking out over the weekend. At the L.A. Dodgers, you had over 1,000 people show up and speaking out over the weekend at the LA Dodgers. You had over a thousand people show up. Nobody, the stadium was empty while they were doing their perversions down there and playing their basketball, their baseball game. But, um, there's only one, I saw article over the weekend. It's only the Texas Rangers that have not joined into this pride celebration. They call them the lone Rangers now because they're the only major league baseballs team that hasn't done. All the rest of them have. And so these people showed up to protest

this decision. And so there's anger, there's protests about this, but they don't know what to do. And that's why your book is so valuable and what you have to say in terms of taking over the county level and everything, but for people to understand how this is fit into history, and that's what you do such a great job with in your book. Talk a little bit about that because it's been a while since you've been on. Give people the Cliff Notes version of where it's coming from, the doctrine of the lesser magistrate. Yeah, well, the doctrine is simply that when the higher-ranking civil authority makes unjust

or immoral law, policy, or court opinion, the God-given right and duty of the lesser authority is to not obey, rather to interpose against their lawlessness. And that's really what we saw expressed in the Declaration of Independence. You know, I always thought it was interesting that they would have us memorize it up to the point where... You have to use the sword against me. What's that? Yeah. Yeah, where it says, you know, if it is, you know, the purpose of the government is to protect our God-given liberties, and it is the right and duty of the people to alter or abolish that government when it becomes destructive of those liberties. They would not have us memorize that.

It stopped at that point. But that's embedded into our Constitution. And you point out and you begin your book with that story about use a sword against me. Tell people that story. Yeah, that was Emperor Trajan and giving us order to subordinate he said use this sword against my enemies if i give righteous commands but if i give unrighteous commands use it against me that's right so it's the doctrine succincted in one statement and um and he's not a christian the duty of the lesson he's not even a christian showing that this doctrine is natural to man.

It's found in non-Jewish, non-Christian nations. Of course, seen in the Old Testament, seen in the New Testament, seen throughout Western civilization. It's found in Scripture. John Knox wrote the foremost treatise on the doctrine of the lesser magistrates, citing over 70 passages of Scripture to show that the doctrine is sound in the word of god so we've seen the interposition of lesser authorities again and again we have 90 sheriffs right now defying the governor of illinois and the entire state legislature over their um infringement of the second member rights of their citizens in their counties regarding assault weapon ban so we're going to the nsa um this sunday david the national sheriff's association oh okay that one i thought you're

talking about the national security agency yeah no not that so the national sheriff's association they're having their national convention in grand rapids, and we're going to be there. They've actually secured me to give the sermon for the prayer breakfast that they have, which I'm honored to do. And, of course, you'll probably get an idea of what I'm going to be talking about from the Word of God. But we plan on getting the book into every sheriff who's there at this gathering because we view it as massively important that we're at such a state in our country now that the guys who carry the guns need to understand that they're not just robots for the state. That's right.

And that they need to think about the things they're being told to do and that their duty, their sacred duty is interposition when the superior authorities are acting lawlessly. Yeah, that is so important. And again, as the sheriffs are there, as a doctrine of the lesser magistrate, nullification and non-commandeering, those are peaceful vetoes. I'm not cooperating with you.

I'm not doing this, right? And of course, they're going to try to escalate things into a fight. But I think that's where we need to you know nullification is where this needs to go because there's so many laws that have taken that over and and for people who are listening uh this goes as matt was talking about trajan the roman emperor uh was saying you know use a sword against me if I give unrighteous commands. It is something that we are going to see coming at us in many different ways. And people need to understand this is tied into our Western civilization, and it's there for a very good reason, and it needs to be preserved.

And of course, Christians need to understand the importance of this from the standpoint of resisting evil. And that is very clearly defined, you know, what evil is and what our responsibility is to protect people from that. So it's a very important book. And it is, again, a quick read. It's very dense in information. I'd highly recommend that book to anybody. And it is something that we have a lot of confusion that's being put out there. And I started getting into this, uh,

and found you when, uh, we had, um, uh, Todd Friel, uh, arguing that on the cusp of these Biden vaccine mandates saying, well, you know, uh, you got to do whatever the government says. And if the government tells you to wear pinwheels on your head, you wear pinwheels on your head. And it's like, no, you don't. I played, I played clips of that on my show and argued with him over that, but you know, I couldn't get him on the show, but you know, it's, it's, that's, that's what they've been told for a very long time.

And I, you know, years ago we would have that type of thing. And I said, well, if that's your understanding of the Bible, I think that's wrong. And you say, well, the only thing that we don't do is obey the government if it tells us that it interferes with the way that we worship. And I said, no, those people who are telling you that are going to let the government interfere with their worship.

And they did. And they had done that even before Todd was talking about the vaccine mandates yep yeah no the standard has always been when the state commands that which god forbids or forbids that which god commands we're to obey god rather than man so if the state you know um contradicts the law of god um we're to obey god rather than man and when it comes to the lesser authorities their duty before god is to stand in interposition against his lawlessness against the lawlessness of the superior authority also if they surpass the

limits of their authority they're to be opposed yes. And that whole matter, yeah, no. We don't put pinwheels on. In the United States, it doesn't even get to that level. Because the doctrine of the lesser magistrate and the right of the people to stand for their God-given rights is encoded into the Declaration of Independence and into our history and our law, once you have somebody who takes an oath to the Constitution and they violate that oath, they're now illegitimate stewards of that.

They're unfaithful stewards. They've delegitimized their authority. They may still have a lot of force to command against you, but they have no legitimate authority. And so just from a civil standpoint, that type of approach that's been taken by Todd Friel and so many other people before him is just not sustainable, doesn't even apply in our country at all. That's right. Yeah, the law and word of God limits the authority

that civil magistrates possess, and our constitution, national and state constitutions, all limit the authority that they possess. If you allow someone to exceed the limits of their authority, it goes to their heads and tyranny grows in the nation. If you oppose their tyranny, then they can do one of two things. They can either realize, yeah, my authority does have limits and I'll back up, or they're forced out of their lair and they have to show their fangs and then people more readily see them for the tyrants they are. So it's

extremely important that when they contradict the law or word of God or impugn the Constitution, since we live here in America, as you're saying, or exceed the limits that have been placed upon their authority, that we don't say, yeah, if he tells us to put pinwheels on our heads. We, but absolutely not men fought, bled and died for the freedoms that we possess. Where are we to glibly throw them on the ground and let them be trampled. Our duty during our time is to help preserve them, um, for the memory of our forebears and also for our progeny that come after us. That's right. Yeah. I have a listener who says, so what about when the king was trying to kill all

the babies, you know, Mary and Joseph get out of town? Or, you know, another one that comes to mind is Paul. You know, he says, yeah, they were trying to arrest me and these guys lowered me over the wall in a basket and everything. You're not to submit to that type of thing. And even Paul would demand due process. You know, it's like, hey, you're not allowed to do this. I'm a Roman citizen. You're not allowed to do that to Roman citizens. He stood up for his rights

before these people. Yes. Absolutely. Another one that's famously talked about is that we always obey unless we have to personally sin. That's not the standard of Christianity down through the ages. And you even see it in recent times that it's not the standard. Like no one told Corrie Ten Boom that she had to mistreat Jews or put them in a death camp and do whatever they were doing. She didn't have to personally sin. Yet she still hid Jews, which was against the law, in her house. Look at the abolitionists during the 1800s no one told them they had to own a slave no one told them they had to beat a slave they didn't have to personally

sin yet many christians helped slaves make it out of slavery in violation of the federal fugitive slave act um because that isn't the standard the standard isn't we always obey unless we have to personally sin. The standard is if the state commands that which God forbids or forbids that which God commands, we obey God rather than the state. Extremely important to understand. And we have a little seven-minute animation video on Romans 13 at our website, Defy Tyrants, and that you can share. And also we have the appendix from my book where I talk about Romans 13 is right there on the homepage of our website, defytyrants.com also. And you can share that with people anywhere because this is the topic that comes up all the time amongst Christian friends, with pastors, elders, with family.

So you can just grab these things and send it to them, and they're short. Seven minutes on the one thing, my appendix, you can read it in 15 minutes. And that is always the proof text that they put up to people. But again, you know, you talk about, we mentioned a couple of things in the New Testament. Of course, there's many things throughout the Old Testament that were that way. You've talked about in the past, giving some examples. Give an Old Testament example or two of people refusing unjust orders. Yeah, I mean, you look at the Hebrew midwives.

They were told by Pharaoh to kill the male Hebrew children. Instead, they disobeyed and made sure the male Hebrew children were born. And God commended them for it, blessed them for it. And so they were told to do something evil, but he was told he couldn't do something good. He was told he couldn't pray to the Lord. And he prayed anyway. And he did it right there by his window. And he did it three times. Nobody could misinterpret what he was doing. And so, again, that's the standard if the state commands that which god forbids like in the Hebrew midwives or forbids that which god commands prayer from us like in Daniel's situation we obey god rather

than man obey god rather than the state i agree i have a comment here from Aaron Moss he says they want you to choose to get you to go against your conscience and i think that's a big part of that you know that was a part of you know we looked at this uh coercion stuff oh we're not forcing you to choose to get you to go against your conscience and i think that's a big part of that you know that was a part of you know we looked at this uh coercion stuff oh we're not forcing you to do this right we're giving you an alternative uh you can either lose your job your career get kicked out of the military whatever uh but it's your choice right and and that's one of the more insidious things about it was to force you to violate your conscience i think absolutely before we before i came out me my wife were listening to your show for 30 minutes leading up and you know we were just reminiscing and we had so much laughter you know and um of the things you

were saying because it reminded us of just how crazy everything was yeah um in regards to what was going on and that was a huge mistake by christian people is complying because tyranny is built plank by plank yes and if you agree with one if you accommodate yourself to the plank of their tyranny that gives them the convenience of building the next plank of their tyranny you cannot appease tyrants. You have to defeat them. And so this matter of conscience is used. I never wore a mask during the entire time, didn't fly for 27 months. I couldn't. People would say, it's just a mask, Matt. I say, it's not just a mask. This is part and parcel of a huge evil. And we like to use the word,

all the pretendemic nonsense, right? Because it's hard for us to wrap our minds around such evil, but it's really evil. It was incredible, massive evil. And the tyrants haven't gone home. Everybody's back to their food and drink. They're thinking. Yeah. Froze up there for a second. Oh, I absolutely agree. I absolutely agree with what what matt said and i i believed it was evil i refused to wear the mask under any circumstances sorry we just uh we you came you took a break there and i just came back we missed a little bit of what you were saying there back up just a little bit because it froze sure yeah you're talking about

you're talking about it being evil with a mask, and that's when we lost you. Yeah. It's not just a mask. It's part and parcel of a huge, massive evil. Yeah. And so you have to take a stand against it, and that's why I did. We would not put a mask on. Nobody in our family did.

Our church stayed open the entire time i preached my first sermon nine days after trump made the national emergency denouncing the entire thing both biblically and just um scientifically because at that time they hadn't censored all the good guys who devoted their entire life to epidemiology and virology and you you did your due diligence i spent 52 hours of study that week yeah and so i was like this is they were all debunking. There were plenty of men debunking the thing right away from the beginning. Yeah. I'd seen them practice this for 20 years, ever since 2001.

I even had somebody who was a cybersecurity guy said, Hey, there's a lot of chatter about a dark winter too. And it was about a year and a half before it happened. And so, you know, when I saw them talking about lockdown and we got to produce a vaccine, he's like, this is the script that they rehearsed for 20 years. And so it was pretty clear to me. And it was also, I saw wearing the face mask, the same as if I were to put a pride flag on my car. I refuse to do that. I watch people driving around husband and wife in a car with the windows up and their masks on. And so I went everywhere that I could with my convertible top down and no mask.

Lots of stairs from people. I never got sick with any of this stuff either. So, you know, it was sucking in lots of virus air, I guess, everywhere I went. But yeah,

I refuse to do that. We're loving, we're loving the talk you were doing about it all. Um, you talk plainly. So we got a lot of laughter, how you express yours. Cause those,

they just need to be said. Yeah. And then at times some of the videos and things, it's just grievous. It is. It is amazing. And you go back and you look at it, you know,

like all this panic about, Oh, we've got to have mass graves in Central Park and everything. You know, they put that stuff out and then they pull it back and then they don't revisit it and they bury the denial. They bury the retraction and they don't bury anybody in Central Park. And I'm glad they didn't. But, I mean, the whole thing was a sham from the beginning. All of this stuff was just this big theatrical production and a pox on anybody who had anything to do with it.

They all knew and they still know, and they're still trying to divert people to other things as well. But it's always great to have you on, and it's very important for people to take a look at this, and it is very important for you to do things at the local level, get your relationship right with God and your family and your community and start doing this stuff at the county level. If you want to get involved in politics, everybody wants to focus on a presidential politics and, you know, the, and there's a lot of juicy theater and all of that, especially now. But the reality is that real life is done in the trenches with day-to-day hard work, and that's the way we're going to take this country back from the ground up. That really is true.

And you need to have a framework of history and of religion and the rest of the stuff that Matt gives you in this book to really give you the guidance of where to go with this. Just as you were talking before, Matt, we've got to show people, it's not enough to condemn what is ugly and degenerate. We need to show the truth that's out there, and we need to model that for people. And so it's not enough just to condemn this tyranny that we've suffered for the last three years that is still grounded at the top level, and they're adding more structures at the level

above that at the WHO. It's not enough just to speak against that tyranny. We have to have an idea of what it should look like. We've got that in the Constitution. But how do we accomplish that, and how has it been done in the past? And that's one thing that your book puts in there for sure. It's very important. Absolutely. It gives people hope and something to do that's right that's right well thank you so much for coming on i wanted to have you on as a reminder to people it's always great talking to you again it is defy tyrants.com where you can find this

book which you also find it on amazon but you know go to his site. And it's always good to try to get out of that controlling structure of Amazon.com. Thank you for joining us, Matt. Appreciate it. Thank you, David. God bless you. Thank you. Always great to talk to you. We'll be right back, folks.

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