The David Knight Show - INTERVIEW Michael Cargill on His Supreme Court Win: It Defeated More Than Bump Stock Overreach

Episode Date: June 19, 2024

Michael Cargill, centraltexasgunworks.com, on the landmark case he just won at the Supreme Court.  This is a precedent that could/should be used to fight all Regulation Without RepresentationWhy fight over bump stockWho joined the fight and who didn't fightWhat was it like to challenge, what happened in the processWhat are the implications for other 2A infringements and other regulation without representationWhat is happening at the state levelWhy is ammo so expensiveFind out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.comIf you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-showOr you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @[e-mail] App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Money should have intrinsic value AND transactional privacy: Go to DavidKnight.gold for great deals on physical gold/silverFor 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to TrendsJournal.com and enter the code KNIGHTBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-david-knight-show--2653468/support.

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I did it. Michael Cargill versus Merrick Garland. The Department of Justice, Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, the bump stock lawsuit. I beat them in the United States Supreme Court. I was told over five years ago, why are you going down this road? No one cares about bump stocks. Let's go ahead and let them take the bump stock. But instead, I stood and fought. And because of this, the bump stock case is going to be the case that saves everything. It's going to stop the ATF from coming after

their brace, the triggers, all different parts and pieces that they're trying to ban. And I'm glad I stood up and fought. So now we have a case that is case law that we can move forward around this country and defend our Second Amendment rights. As always, more guns equals less crime. You go out there, you buy yourself a gun. Better yet, get yourself a bump stop. That's right. And support people like Michael Carggill michael thank you for joining us and your store is central texas gunworks if i recall correctly is that right yes sir that's correct right there in austin central texas gunworks great uh and uh i just want to thank you as we

began thank you for doing this you know it we get change when people like you refuse to take unconstitutional orders and just lay down so I really do appreciate you doing that but tell us why the bump stock and why not some of the other regulation from the ATF what was it about the bump stock to you that was different well to me yet because that was the one thing that the ATF used to take everything else. It was like the gateway to get into doing what they wanted to do. So they started with the bump stock after the Las Vegas shooting. And they took that framework and that little outline and they used that and removed the word bump stock.

And they inserted brace. They inserted triggers, FRTs, force reset triggers. And all the little parts and and they inserted a brace, they inserted triggers, you know, FRTs force reset triggers and all the little parts and pieces they wanted to ban. And, and I actually, you know, I knew I had something, you know, a feeling going on that something was going to happen. And when they first banned the bump stock, I sat back and I looked, you know, and I said, hold on, you know, we're talking about an agency within the federal government. We're not talking about Congress. You know, we have a constitution in this country, you know, and it's not called a bill of needs. It's actually called the bill of rights. And we have rights that come with that.

And so I looked at this and I said, hold on. You know, we're allowing them to take the bump stock. And everyone was like, you know, it's okay. Let's let them go ahead and take the bump stock because that, you know, we don't care about the bump stock. I say, well, you know what? I don't care about it either. It's not something that I, you know, ever used. It's not something I really cared about. But it's the fact that if you allow them to take this one part of peace, you know, what happens when a Democrat steps into office, you know, like Biden or someone? And then, boom, it just opens the gateway. And so I decided to, I started to, you know, just take a stand. I want to take a stand and say,

you know what, that's not going to happen on my watch. I'm not going to allow it to happen. If I have to go in and do this by myself as the only plaintiff in this case, then that's exactly what I will do. Great. Yeah. Thank you for doing that. And, you know, we said, well, what happens when Biden gets in, uh, when this was done? of course, it was Trump's pet project as well. You know, he had the little thing there and he says, oh, fortunately, the bump stock I can do by myself. You know, you guys in Congress, you decide which other things you want to do. You take the gun, do the due process later, all the rest. But I can do the bump stock myself.

I was like, what is he talking about? You know, he's going to do gun control by executive order. And I said that. And I said, exactly what you said know, he's going to do gun control by executive order. And I said that. And I said, exactly what you said. What's Biden going to do? Well, we knew what Lala Harris wanted to do. She immediately said, when I become president, right after he said that, when I become president, I'm going to give a long list of gun control things

that I want from Congress. And if they don't do it in 100 days, I'll do it by executive order. And so it really was a very dangerous precedent. want from Congress. And if they don't do it in a hundred days, I'll do it by executive order. And so it really was a very dangerous precedent. And I was so disturbed to see that the NRA set it out. I guess they didn't want to go against Trump. I know the gun owners of America opposed it. Did the gun owners of America get involved with your lawsuit or any other gun organizations, or was it strictly you doing this with a legal firm that worked with you? Right. Later on down the road, other organizations out there started their own lawsuit,

but initially I reached out to everyone that I possibly could, and no one at the time wanted to join in and do this. So that's why I did it all by myself. And keep it in mind, the ATF said 10 times on 10 different occasions that bump stocks were actually okay. And they fit it within the framework of what Congress had written. So they did not meet the definition of machine gun. So if they said this 10 times, and keep in mind, this started on the Obama administration. Bump stocks were illegal.

Bush administration, bump stocks were illegal. You know, here we go into the Trump administration and because of the shooting in Las Vegas they wanted to please the left and satisfy the anti-gun community they decided okay we'll just go ahead and give up bump stocks and I said no I'm not I'm not gonna give them an inch because you get in the inch they're gonna take a mile and that's exactly what happened when Biden got into office yeah oh absolutely yeah it's like uh okay well i don't want to cut off my right arm but how about my right pinky can i do that and i

don't have to worry about that i thought it was kind of interesting too that i do with the bump stock because it's always a little bit of a bump isn't it you know they just kind of bump you into this and then all the precedents started uh kicking in line uh with b So, you know, and I want to thank you, too, because, you know, this is not a not an easy thing for somebody to do that has a gun store, because we've seen what Biden has done in terms of weaponizing the ATF to take people's firearm licenses over minor violations that in the past they would have gotten just a uh you know a fine even a minor fine instead they say we're taking the whole license because of that and there's been a lot of report about that there's been a lot of atf agents who have blown the whistle on that but that is the

policy of the biden administration have you had any kind of uh recrimination uh with this kind of stuff absolutely and once we won the fifth circuit uh ruling in the en banc decision there, then I had ATF walk into my shop with three agents and they go through everything. They spent like over a week combing through every piece of paper, you know, to make sure that, you know, everything was, everything was right with all of the permits and just every single thing, go through every single state agency, county agency, city government, federal government, to make sure that, you know, everything was right. And, but that's, that's the price of doing business. That's the price of going up against the, you know, the federal government like that. You know, we're talking about the department of justice. We're talking about the Bureau of alcohol, tobaccoacco, and Firearms.

I don't know why they have the alcohol and tobacco in there because they only focus on the firearms. That's right. But hey. Well, who knows? Maybe they'll bring back alcohol prohibition. That'd be a nice little side business, side hustle for them, wouldn't it? But again, thank you for doing that.

You knew that was going to happen. It wasn't a surprise to you, and you for doing that. You knew that was going to happen. It wasn't a surprise to you, and you took that on. You took on that scrutiny, that harassment, that extra stuff that comes with it for all of that. So thank you again, and kudos to you. And was there any—we talked about other gun organizations. What about Congress? Was there any help, even any amicus briefs filed by anybody in congress okay there were several amicus briefs that were actually filed

once we made up to the fifth circuit umbuck and also to the supreme court so a lot of different organizations came together then and yes absolutely started filing uh briefs for us you know in our in support um different organizations start filing briefs in in support and also a group of governors filed the amicus brief as well so we did get support especially we made it up to the supreme court but initially out the gate it was very difficult because we went through the first court the first federal court uh which in that court session was actually held during covet so everything was shut down we were the only proceeding that happened you know that year post covet and so the the judge in that ruling you know compared the bump stock to the function of how um a shotgun

works he said oh okay so the bump stock is kind of like a shotgun you push what you left you know then you can fire it i said so you're trying to turn a shotgun into a machine gun i sat back in my chair and crossed my hands and i said we're gonna lose this case here which we did it's a street sweeper now uh yeah so you started so the bump stock if i'm correct uh didn't it come in in uh 2018 or something like that but then everything shuts down is uh tell us a little bit about the process because this has been a long-term process uh when when did it go i think it was 2018 but when did you start uh your process and what were some of the first things that you did? We started our process in 2019.

Well, when the ATF actually implemented the ban, the rule or whatever they want to call it, turning half a million Americans into felons overnight. Yeah. So I walked into the ATF's office and I surrendered my bump stocks that I had because I explained to people, I'm no good to you. If I'm in jail, I'm locked up. You know, I can't, there's nothing, you know, it's, it makes it hard for me to defend myself. But if I go through the process, go ahead and surrender the bump stock, you know, turn them into the ATF. And then within 30 minutes, we filed a lawsuit you know in federal court against the

government and then that was uh 2000 and let's see 19 2019 and then 2020 we went to the first federal court in Austin Texas uh where you have a judge who didn't have a clue set through that proceeding and then we lost that case we appealed that case to the Fifth Circuit, went to the Fifth Circuit. In the Fifth Circuit, that was actually held in front of a three-judge panel. And on the Fifth Circuit, those of you, many people know, the majority of the justices on that court are conservative justices. There are very few liberal justices that were appointed on that court. But we pulled three liberal judges. Okay.

So, of course, we lost, you know, the three-judge panel in the Fifth Circuit. And then we appealed again, and luckily it was taken out by the entire Fifth Circuit, heard and bonked by the entire court there. And that's when we won that decision they fully understood what we're talking about we're talking about how machine gun you know the definition of machine gun and how bump stock did not fit in that category we're talking about the function of the trigger the single function of a trigger and how you pull you know that single function of the trigger one round goes out that is a semi-automatic but, that single function of the trigger, one round goes out, that is a semi-automatic. But if one single function of the trigger, I hold that trigger, more than one round goes out,

that is an automatic. And they fully understood that. And so we won that case overwhelmingly in the Fifth Circuit. And then the federal government, the ATF, Department of Justice decided to appeal the case to the United States Supreme Court. and the United States Supreme Court took it up in Satori. And so we had the hearing in the United States Supreme Court in February, on February 28th, and I'll never forget this, because we sat in this courtroom, we're talking an hour and a half, going over the definition of a machine gun. And I just explained it to you within seconds. Yeah, exactly.

For an hour and a half, we actually discussed the definition of what a machine gun and i just explained it to you within seconds yeah exactly yeah for an hour and a half we actually discussed the definition of what a machine gun is and so you know we went you had that proceeding went through that and here we are you know from february down to june 14th when the ruling came down on the army's birthday on flag day oh yeah that's right that's right we got the ruling that the bump stocks are legal in this country and that the atf and agency within the federal government cannot create or write law that is reserved for congress and so that is uh that's two different aspects again um was that something that even came up in the lower courts and in the austin court and in the fifth circuit the first time a second time uh it wasn't strictly ever about just uh the definition of a machine gun but it's

also about the uh whether or not we're going to have regulation without representation right that is correct uh we we through the entire process we repeated the same thing over and over again uh we talked about the definition of machine gun. Then we focused on, you know, an agency, the federal government, an entity within the government, not Congress, you know, because we have a, like I said, we have a bill of rights. We have a constitution that's laid, it's laid out on how government should actually work. And so the agencies, you know, we're talking bureaucrats who are not elected into office that were appointed to office. They're going to turn millions of Americans into felons overnight.

And that's exactly what the ATF did. You know, this this Brumstock case actually weaponized the ATF. You know, as soon as Biden stepped into office, it weaponized them to go after everything. They went after the the brace. And you're talking millions of Americans, you know, lost their brace overnight, and then it turned into felons if they didn't surrender. People were literally running to the gun store trying to figure out what they can do. Do I take it apart? Can I separate it?

Do I turn it into an SBR, get a tax stamp for it, make it a short barrel rifle or whatever? They were frantic when that deadline hit for the brace. And I said, I said back and I said, just wait, the bump stock is going to save you. The bump stock is going to be your saving grace. And that's exactly what happened. And a lot of people don't realize, you know, they're still, even today, people are saying the bump stock is not that important to me. It really is not, but it's not about the bump stock. It's about the entire concept. It's about the ATF used that paperwork, that framework, that outline to ban the bump stock, and they took that and they went after everything without anyone stopping them. Yeah, that's right.

I wish that somebody had challenged the 1934 Firearms Act or the 1968 Firearms Act to say, it's not just the ATF or bureaucracy that can infringe on the second amendment uh we don't want uh the the elected representatives to do that either if they don't like the second amendment they can change the second amendment but they can't infringe on it but we have a long history now nearly a century of legislative infringement on it but it was a completely new ball game if the agency that was if the atf was going to start to just ban things at will that was going to really change everything altogether and it's of course it's interesting too that you know when you look at the nra and they looked at the um the bump stock they said we don't care about that they didn't oppose it

then trump put in a pistol brace thing and they, then they did oppose that. And then he did remove that before he left office. And then Biden immediately puts that back in and then starts doing everything else that he can think of. And that's the, the issue, you know,

it's, it's the principle that is involved. And so, as you were pointing out, this should affect a lot of other things. And, you know, I wonder Michael,

it really should affect things like the EPA trying to ban our appliances. You know, this is through regulation. You know, they're regulating appliances out of existence. This ought to affect more than gun parts. This ought to affect, if the Supreme Court is consistent with this, this ought to affect all kinds of regulation without representation. Absolutely. If we can stop the ATF, which we were able to do this without, with a slam dunk, we were able to stop them with the bump stock. Now, you're talking exactly what you just said.

The EPA, OSHA, all the different little groups. We're talking going back to COVID, shutting the country down, telling churches that they can't, you know, worship the Lord on Sunday, you know, going through all these little different things that, you know, we went through in 2020. Man, I remember in 2020, when I had to put one of my dogs to sleep, and we walked into the veterinary office there, and the fact that, you know, they were so afraid of COVID, you know, the government caused such a fear that only one of us could go in and put the dog to sleep. And I, man, that was devastating to me, devastating to my family. The fact that, you know, and we're talking funerals, you know, family members that were having funerals in that timeframe, you couldn't, you know, hug each other, you know, doing the service, you know, things like that. It was just insane the way this country, the way government,

you know, treated, you know, treated its citizens. And you know what? That's why I did what I did because I said, you know what? I'm not going to be a slave to the government. The government is going to be a slave to me. I'm going to tell the government what to do. I'm not going to allow them to dictate to me what I should or what I can and cannot do. Good.

Good for you. That's exactly right. I need more Good for you. That's exactly what I need. More people like you. As a matter of fact, you know, when I was still in Austin, I remember you ran for city council. You had the right idea. You know, you're looking at local issues. I remember you talking about the fact, hey, our traffic problems are north and south. They're not even talking about that.

They're talking about maybe doing something eventually that's going to be east and west. And it's not a very good solution, but it's not even a solution that's pointed at the problem. You were level-headed you had the right idea but unfortunately austin is very left wing and uh so you didn't make it through that but you know when i look at this michael uh when we look at the pistol brace for example uh here in tennessee they said well first of all uh they pass a law and they said if it is something that is legal in tennessee uh then you're not going to enforce those federal prohibitions against it and we're not going to have anybody in law enforcement help you that's the non-commandeering thing

and then what they did was they they made pistol braces legal and so with those two pieces of things there they talked to state representatives they said, don't worry about it. We've got it taken care of. You know, we've declared the pistol brace to be legal. And we said that if anything is legal, the federal government in Tennessee, the federal government can't do anything about it. Is there anything like that happening in Texas at a state level to try to block or to nullify any federal overreach like this or like anything else that you're aware of? Yes, we do have some things similar in Texas that they do in Tennessee as well. And I'm grateful of that, of what we've done here

at the Texas State Capitol. But we're moving in the right direction in Texas, but we have some other things that we need to work on. There's some things I'm trying to work on at the Capitol here this next coming session. I'm talking with some of our elected officials right now because we were able to get constitutional carry pass, but there's still some work that needs to be done with that. We were able to get a campus carry pass where you can, you know, you can carry a handgun concealed inside the building of a public college campus. There's still work left, you know, that needs to be done with that as well. And also this past session, we were able to protect our schools a little more by having, you know, an armed person inside the school, every single school, not just

a resource officer that's, you know, at the high school dealing with fights and things of that nature. We're talking about a person, you know, that's armed at the elementary school protecting the babies. And that's something that we were not focusing on at all in this country. But luckily, in Texas, we're actually focusing on the things that we need to focus on, unlike other states. That's good. Are they talking about letting teachers carry guns? Or is that something that's being talked about? Is that something they passed? What was the state of that? Yes. So in Texas, we do have a school safety program and also a school marshal program where a teacher or several teachers or employees of schools can actually carry a firearm

uh doing you know inside the building of the school to protect the kids as well that's good i i think that's the most important thing you know when we we call people heroes if they run into a burning building or they run into a building where there's you know fire uh being uh you know there's gunfire going on uh but you know when you have a teacher that is there the teacher that is armed and knows how to use it if somebody comes in that classroom it's not necessarily heroic to protect their own life you know know, that's a natural thing. And we've seen situations where you've got people who have been tasked with protecting the school, you know, like down in Parkland where they don't do it.

You know, they don't run in. It's a heroic thing to do. Not everybody's a hero, but pretty much everybody will protect their life. And a lot of people, if it's a situation that's right there with them, they're threatening these children that they know that they've had a relationship with. I think they'll do what they can to stop that. I think that's a much more effective thing.

Plus, the person is not identified with the uniform, which takes away their effectiveness as well. So I think that's a very important thing to do. I got a comment here from Guard Goldsmith, and thank you for the tip, Guard.

He says, Well done, David and Mr. Cargill. It would have been great to see the SCOTUS tear down the 1934 Act itself, but this is a great pushback on the immediate practical level, and the principle is still being brought to light. That's from Gard Goldsmith.

He also has a program, Liberty Conspiracy. Yeah, that is anything that we can do to pull it back. We should be very grateful to you for doing that. There's a lot that remains to be done of course but anything that can be done is a victory we should celebrate every step that we use to block their aggressions let me ask you this you know we've had we have the you know as as everybody does that when a Democrat gets into office, gun sales go up. Did gun sales go up when Trump started talking about banning this and banning that and taking the gun and doing the due process later? Or did they just kind of stay level?

Oh, yeah. We talked about banning bump stocks. All the bump stocks were being sold around the country. That's why they're being recovered right now from those boating accidents that apparently happened. People are digging them out. They're coming out of the woodworks now. I'm seeing them pop up online for sale. Absolutely.

Whenever a leader in this country says they're going to ban something, a president says, hey, we're going to look into this or look into that. That product sells off the shelf ever since I got it. Let's touch on the ammunition, because one of the things I think about when I look at a bump stock, it's like, what do these guys do that they can shoot off this much ammunition, as expensive as ammunition is? And we saw during the beginning of the Obama administration, one of the things that feeds into ammunition is the ability for the companies that are manufacturing the ammunition to get spent brass from the military and it's always been something that helps the the price of it a little bit and i remember

in the obama administration they stopped it at fort drum and some other places they even took the spent brass and crushed it into just scrap metal and then sold it to China. They could have made more money selling that spent brass into, you know, into American industry because it's already formed into shells and stuff. But what is going on with ammunition? Why is it so expensive? What do you think is happening with it? I think because exactly what you just said, you know, in cases like that. Also, I think we're, you know, sending ammunition over to different countries, Ukraine, to, you know, the different conflicts that we have around the world. And unfortunately, that leaves us, you know, a little short.

And then we're having to take up the cost of that by paying higher prices for ammunition. So that's why, you know, a lot of my customers are starting to do reloads. They're reloading their own ammunition, you know, picking up brass at the range after they fire it and reloading that. And that's what we're going to have to get to. Because I got into this business of selling firearms because I said, you know, I'm a little prepper. You know, I said, you need to be prepared in case something does happen. And if COVID did not teach you anything, you know, to be prepared, let me tell you, you better, you, you, you better wake up because, um, I never thought in a million years that, you know, I would be in this country. A friend of mine called me

around February, late February in 2020. And he said, you know, Michael, they're getting ready to shut the country down. I'm like, what are you talking about? He said, everything's getting ready to shut down in February. And I said, that's insane. That doesn't make sense to me. And I totally dismissed him. And then come March 13th, D-Day, exactly what happened. This entire country on 2020 shut down. And they're saying people have to stay in place and all that crazy mess. And I still, on March 14th, I still came into work you know we still open these doors I had the health department show up I had the Austin Police Department show up I had the fire marshal show up to try to shut me down and I

said I'm not closing the doors and by the way I have more I have more guns than you do and I like you to leave and so we did not close we stayed open the entire time and it takes that it takes that drive that tenacity to get things done people don't realize the things that go on you know around you know different states in in this country and what people are doing to stand up and and fight against that tyranny that's actually happening yeah so and they they very is very uh cold and calculating the way that they did it you know they would not do any articles about you uh but if somebody was in a jurisdiction where they they pressed it and they arrested the guy that's got the gym or whatever then it's like oh look at

this could happen to you type of thing or everybody that's shutting down and they they talk to them about how oh yeah i it's really gonna it may put me out of business but i gotta shut down to be a good neighbor and all the rest of this nonsense it was such one-sided propaganda they showed no stories of anybody like you standing up to this they didn't talk about anybody who refused to wear the mask it was all about compliance compliance compliance censorship and then propaganda on both sides of this thing all the way through. Let me ask you this. Back on the bump stock thing, of course, we had Biden saying, well, we got to pass this now through Congress.

And Schumer introduced this. And we had Republicans who blocked it. Even Republicans who didn't care about the the bump stock before they now care about it uh looks like that you're following this uh pretty closely what what is your assessment does it look like this is going to be blocked in this election year yes i think we're going to do a good job of keeping them from doing anything in congress um on the house and the senate side and we we need to make sure this election time people get out there and go vote because the numbers matter it matters how many republicans how many democrats we have in office um to actually shut a lot of

these things down we need to make sure that well i don't want to say republicans democrats there's libertarians that are out there that are doing great job and that and growing as well we need to make sure the people that are pro-second amendment are in office and they're actually listening to the people we're saying don't let them we're not going to you know let them take that inch at all because if we do they're going to take the mile so we have to get you know the people that we know that are going to stand on our side to make sure that we don't you know we don't lose any of the rights that we're you know that we hold dear and near to our heart yeah that's right uh i got a comment here from michael de silvio he says uh

they taught school children throw a can of soup at a gunman here in the town where he lives i've seen that stuff too you know it's like oh yeah pack you're packing a can of soup there right there concealed carry of some soup i don't know right i know yeah it is uh some pretty crazy stuff but thank you so much for what you did it truly is is important for each and every one of us to stand up for this stuff. It's important what happens at the local level. I know you understood that. You did your best there in Austin. That's a tough audience for anything that's conservative or constitutional there in Austin, for sure.

Oh, yeah. And they've come out with like different little threats as well you know so i've received probably in a at a 24-hour period over 50 threats you know and but i'm thinking wow you're anti-gun you're threatening me yeah with what what are you gonna do you know so of course we step in our security we're doing the things that we need to we take all threats serious uh but you know they're going to do that. And that's how the left is. You know, that's how the anti-gun community is. They're very violent. And so we're going to stand up against that and continue to do what I'm doing. I'm not going to stop what I'm doing. Continue forward. They're going to do this in Congress.

We're going to fight them in Congress. You know, I will talk to all my elected officials in Texas, around Texas, let them know that we're watching you. Make sure you don't betray us. So we will continue to do the things we need to do here. Yes. And just tell anybody who lives in the area, general area in Texas, support somebody like Michael Cargill who supports your rights to own a gun. He got into this fight. Who was it with you that we had legal counsel? Who was it that was working with you?

Uh, so in this case, it was in CLA, a new civil liberties alliance, a great organization. Thanks to them. Uh, they did exactly, you know, they fought this case exactly the way I wanted it fought. Um, we. The attorney to argue the case in the Supreme court, because that attorney, uh, he actually argued a case in the 19th Supreme Court because that attorney, he actually

argued a case in the Supreme Court for Trump as well. And so that's why we picked that attorney. And people were kind of hesitant, you know, once that hearing happened in February, like, man, we don't know if we're going to win this, you know, because the attorney, he didn't go after, you know, didn't respond to certain questions the way he should have. Well, you know what? The attorney did exactly what he was supposed to do. And this is how he explained it.

He said, you know, there are some justices that are on the court, the United States Supreme Court, who are going to be in that no vote column. So if I focus on their questions, you know, in that no vote, I lose the, I could, you know, I could take the chance of losing a yes vote. So instead of focusing on that chance of losing a yes vote. So instead of focusing on that person and losing my yes vote, I'm going to ignore them because they're already going to be a no vote regardless. I'm not going to change their mind. So him spending time in talking with Justice Kentucky Brown Jackson, trying to change her mind, he's not going to

change her mind because this, this justice said that, you know, she understood, uh, the bump stock to fire, you know, to be attached to a rifle and for a rifle to fire 800 rounds a second. She said 800 rounds a second. It's like, I don't have an answer for that. You know, it's not, it can't fight 800 rounds a second i said just think about that concept second think about that for a second yeah it's like uh the ghost gun or whatever they call it on these uh you know the special forces ac-130 or something like that yeah uh pretty ridiculous not based in fact but if she was very it was a sotomayor though so well if it if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and

all the rest of this kind of stuff and it's like lady you don't even know what a duck is i mean you don't know the difference between an automatic and a semi-automatic but hey if it if it works like that it's like well the same thing is could be uh true of the uh the legislation you know if it looks like tyranny if it looks like a power grab if it looks like a violation of the constitution it is a violation of the constitution that's what you're here for i guess but uh absolutely yeah even even uh senator feinstein the late senator feinstein knew that this is something that had to go through congress you You know, she said it and she warned them back when she was in office, when they were trying to do this back in 2019. She said, look, you know, 2018, you know, Congress has to do this.

You can't allow the ATF to do this. But, you know, they did. No one called them on it. And Congress didn't do anything. Well, Trump was pushing it. He says, don't you worry about that. I can do that by myself, fortunately. So it's crazy.

Just crazy. I mean, I just looked at that. It's like, what is going on here? You talk about somebody else that doesn't know anything about guns. It's Trump. But anyway, thank you so much for doing it again. The new civil liberties.

Was it Alliance? NCLA? That's correct. NCLA. and they sound like there's somebody who's been involved in some of these um mask issues and things like that too maybe so they're they focus on uh government issues you know and government overreach they're not a gun organization at all matter of fact i was the first second amendment case they've ever ever had and so uh we they actually you know called me up and i was actually searching for them luckily we met and i said hey you know i need an attorney they said hey we're looking for a client i said well let's get married so we did and we took this case all the way to supreme court

well if they're focusing on government overreach that's a target rich environment they should have enough work to last all their lifetimes and thank you for stepping in and taking care of that again central texas gun works there in austin if you're in texas uh support michael cargill because he supports your second amendment rights and he has you know faced the scrutiny and probably will be facing a lot of other uh penalties uh you know repercussions and recriminations for this type of stuff so thank thank you for doing that, Michael. Great talking to you. Good to see you again.

Thank you very much, sir. And thank you for having me. And like I always say, more guns equals less crime. Go out there and buy yourself a gun. That's a good way to look at it. Thank you so much, Michael. Appreciate it. Let me tell you, the David Knight Show you can listen to with your ears you can even watch it

by using your eyes in fact if you can hear me that means you're listening to Right now. Yeah. Good job. And you want to know something else? You can find all the links to everywhere to watch or listen to the show at the David night show dot com. That's a Web site.