The David Knight Show - INTERVIEW TWA 800: The FBI/CIA Conspiracy of Lies & Coverup

Episode Date: September 20, 2023

Jack Cashill, author of "TWA 800: Behind the Coverup and Conspiracy",— stolen evidence, fabricated testimony, and ongoing efforts to get justice after the US military negligently shot down a passenger airliner in 1996. Find out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.comIf you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-showOr you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @[e-mail] App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Money is only what YOU hold: Go to DavidKnight.gold for great deals on physical gold/silverFor 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to TrendsJournal.com and enter the code KNIGHTBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-david-knight-show--2653468/support.

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we're moving the world forward, visit ubc.ca forward happens here. All right. Joining us now is author and investigative researcher, Jack Cashel. We talked to him not too long ago about his new book, Untenable. That's about white flight from these Democrat run cities. As he pointed out, how do we describe this? And he goes, well, they just made these cities untenable. People are not leaving because they're racist. They're leaving because of what the Democrats have done to make these cities untenable. But as I said, he's a researcher. He did some excellent research on another book that he wrote a few years ago about TWA Flight 800, which exploded around Long Island, New York.

Everybody on board lost. And there has been a lot of discussion about that. The FBI also dismissing that as a conspiracy theory. But if you look at the description of the book, the name of the book is TWA 800, Behind the Cover-Up and Conspiracy, a book to challenge the status quo, to spark a debate, and to get people talking about the issue and questions we face as a country.

So thank you so much for joining us, Jack. Good to have you on. Hey, David, thanks for having me. Always a pleasure. Thank you. I appreciate the work you do. Well, thank you. We set this up, as I told the audience last week, because I wanted to talk about, I've been talking about what happened with 9-11.

I've been talking about the anthrax attack and the things that followed on with that. So I thought it'd be good for us to talk about Flight TWA 800. But of course, there's so many things that the FBI has been involved in terms of setting people up, but also in terms of getting rid of evidence. And that is a key thing that appears to be a part of the TWA 800. But it turns out, as we've got the missing F-35 and a story that just doesn't seem to be very plausible, we're kind of seeing this happening from the government all the time, aren't we, where they come up with this crazy story and we're not supposed to ask any questions about it. No, in fact, you're right.

The real tragedy now is we're not supposed to ask questions. Yes, that's right. And I was just reading through the Missouri versus Joseph Biden case, you know, where the media, where the government worked, the White House, the White House worked with the media to not just discourage question asking, but to punish it. And it's, everyone should read that lawsuit. I mean, the judgment rather, it's chilling. Yes, it is. I mean, you know, let's face face it military have been screwing up and covering up since the beginning of military you know i'm sure caesar was you know covering up his

misdeeds um but there's there are very few conspiracies of execution those are rare conspiracies of concealment however are a dime a dozen. And the White 800 is a conspiracy of concealment, not of execution. What makes it different from other such conspiracies, it was so much to cover up with so many eyewitnesses, so much evidence, right? Right. Right. And then New York Times, which actually made it easier rather than harder. But yeah, that's the real nature of this phenomenon that needs exposure. It's not too late.

And I think it's interesting. I went back and I looked at a New York Post article talking about this. And as they pointed out, to put this in a historical context of what was happening at the time, this was, we just had the World Trade Center bombing, the Oklahoma City bombing had happened a little bit before that. The Olympics in Atlanta were just a few days away. And of course, we know what happened with Richard Jewell and the FBI. I mean, Clint Eastwood did a great job of that. And, uh, they used, uh,

they, they came up with a little, uh, he said, she said a story to keep people from going to see that. Cause that was a real expose. I think it was one of his finest films. Very important. That movie has faded from, I don't think they've ever said on Netflix. Oh yeah. Before they even put it out, they said, well, you know, the way that they portrayed this woman, they showed her as trying, the journalist is trying to seduce this FBI agent or something like that. I'm just going from memory here. But, you know, they just vilified it that way so that nobody would go to see it. And especially the people who really needed to see it, the people who trust everything that the government says. But we had all these different things that were happening.

And then you had, you know, as that was all happening, you had Jim Kallstrom, the FBI assistant director, was forced to hold a press conference November 8th, 1996, because so many people were talking about this. As you said, there's so many different witnesses. And what he had to say was he said, nothing, nothing like that has the military would not shoot down anything nothing nothing like that has ever taken place would take place would ever take place under any circumstances and yet it was only eight years earlier that the u.s military shot down an iranian uh commercial an Iranian commercial airliner, flight 695 in 1988, and it killed everybody on board. And there was a massive settlement that the U.S. government paid the Iranians and said, look, it's an accident.

We're sorry. Here it is. But, you know, they couldn't cover that up because it was an unfriendly nation. But they engaged in a very heavy cover-up of this in the United States. Tell us a little bit about what they did. Yeah, and here it began on day two. Day one, there was some innocent, honest reporting. In fact, there was a video shot of the actual incident, and it was a bidding war for the video. The winner of that bidding war,

curiously, was MSNBC. They'd be on for only two days, they came in here July 15 1996. So for them, it was a, you know, cool to get it. I've talked to 100 people who've seen the video. But I also talked to indirectly to the person who was running the tech at MSNBC that night. And he said that several gentlemen in suits came in and took all copies and and made these guys fear for their lives if they ever talked about it or kept a copy wow curiously so you said you've talked to about 100 people who saw it so what did they see on that

tape specifically they saw a missile rising towards the airplane and knocking it out of the sky my best witness in this regard is a 747 pilot and a former missile guy from boeing who was recuperating in a hong kong hospital from a for back surgery and in hong kong he continued to show the video and he said his wife was there with him. He said, we saw it 50, a hundred times, right? It was like a regular news feature. They'd show the video. And he was curious given his, you know, what he did for a living. And I've talked to him extensively. And a couple of years ago, in fact,

I worked with traditional watch to try to find a copy of the video in Hong Kong, and we could not. It's out there someplace. Nelson DeMille based his very compelling novel, Nightfall, around that missing video. You know, he fictionalized the circumstances, throwing a lot of sex and stuff. Sure. It's a very good read i must say and he knows his stuff the mill knows his stuff wow that's amazing uh what other evidence did they uh cover up because i know that there was uh some uh i think there's some also some flight

tapes that they came around and confiscated didn't they they confiscated all the radar tapes yeah from the sites um the fellow who's been uh hounding them most effectively and this is a guy named tom stalkup he's a physicist who's made uncovering this uh i'm uncovering this cover-up his life's passion and he's a serious no-nonsense and a political technical guy. And he launched a lawsuit a year ago against Raytheon and Lockheed Martin as well as the defense military defense Institute, the Department of Defense, the US Navy is very serious. And his accusations are very specific. And you know, they're, I think they'll have a hard time denying them what they will do

however and are doing is doing everything and in the courts to uh block his discovery and to to move the case forward but that's probably where the the best hope lies of uh unraveling it one other thing they had to cover up and they covered up very um see i should say stalker believes the radar is the real smoking gun the one thing they covered up most clumsily was the traces of residue uh explosive residue rdxp etn found all over the airplane outside inside as well and the new york times was allowed to report on this for a month after the crash that was the angle they were allowed because it said bomb you know they were they were going for the bomb bombs are less scary than missiles you know if you're if if they had reported a terrorist missile attack in new york two days before the start of the atlanta olympics they

would have had a shutdown traffic on east coast would have been nightmare yeah but a bomb you know they could oh we can screen more effectively whatever so bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb it culminates on august 23rd five weeks after the crash 1996 with the new york times headline prime uh evidence found that explosive device in cabin destroys CW800. That's a paraphrase, but it's very close. Explosive device in cabin. And then we didn't hear too much about it for the next four weeks. And then miraculously, in about September 20th, they decided that it was a mechanical failure after all. And that was coming out of

Washington, out of the NTSB, out of Jim Hall, who was an Al Gore flunky who had been put up the head of the National Transportation Safety Board. And the way they justified removing the bum. Happiness. We all know what it feels like, but sometimes it doesn't come easy. I'm Garvey Bailey, the host of Happy Enough, a new podcast from the Globe and Mail about our pursuit of happiness. We know people want to live more fulfilling and positive lives, but how do we actually do that? Is there a happiness code to crack? From our relationship with technology to whether money can really buy you happiness, we'll hear from both real people and experts to demystify this thing we're all searching for and hopefully find ways to be happy enough.

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RDXBTN found here, there, everywhere. Was they decided that a sloppy police training exercise in St. Louis weeks before the crash had resulted in there being residue left on the plane, right? And they put that story out and the New York Times just snatched it up. The New York Times was totally beholden to the FBI. When I wrote my first book on TWA Fight at 100 with James Sanders, five years after the fact, I called the police officer.

He was the first, I was the first person immediately to talk to him. And this happens all the time. You'd be surprised, you wouldn't be surprised, David, you know. People in the outside world

think that reporters just go after stories. No, they don't. They go away from stories that they don't like the outcome of. He was a black guy.

He was still pissed. You know, he goes, they ruined me. Right? And they blamed him and his dog. They made fun of him and his dog, Carlo. Oh, these local police officers, they don't know what they're doing.

They leaked explosives. This is Kallstrom. They leaked explosives all over the plane. Kallstrom lied bold-facedly about this before Congress. And so that was gone. It was that easy. Because the FBI was reporting this exclusively to the New York Times. And New York Times is beholden on the FBI for its information,

which made it the big dog in this reporting. That's right. And if they had any ethics at that time, and that's doubtful, they sacrificed them simply to be the inside guys, right? That's right. Yeah. To get the scoops on everybody else and to be the first people to report the lie. Where anybody else gets the lie.

Yeah. When I was reporting on this initially, I spoke to the aviation editor at Washington Post. And he was still angry, too, because he said they cut us out altogether. You know, they went to New York Times. That was it. We had to rely on the Times, you know, for our coverage, as did all the media and everyone else. Of course, the CIA was working behind the scenes with its people. And that's even more diabolical because there are people in the major media

they own. Well, let's talk about that. But before we leave this, what was it that they said that this police officer had done to spread explosive all over the place? You know, what was he allegedly, how did he, how did he, I mean, this is like the magic bullet thing, right? What is their official story about how this actually happened?

Well, you know, he did do, you know, what they found is a plane on which an exercise had been done. So what the police officer would do is he would bring his dog cargo. First, he would plant these devices or these traces. They were packaged. They weren't leaking. There was no external affluence. He would post them. They would bring the dog in. The dog would sniff them out, basically training the dog to make sure that he could smell these things. Then he'd take up the stuff and leave.

The problem with this story was, one of the most conspicuous ones, and it was easily broken if they chose to look, was that the plane in question, the TWA plane, at the time the officer was doing this training exercise in St. Louis, the TWA plane was parked there, but it was 15 minutes away from leaving with a full crew for Honolulu, right? The crew has to be on that plane two hours beforehand, you know, cleaning and preparing. You've got 350 passengers. And his exercise overlapped with the whole loading of the airplane. It was impossible. Sitting right next to it was another, because the officer did not note the plane that he was on, other than he just said it was a wide body, was another plane that was empty.

So the training exercise didn't even take place on a TWA-800 plane. It took place on another airplane so they had overlooked that i mean it was just the reporting uh is almost i would say more scandalous than the actual cover-up itself yeah that's the motive covering up you know that's what people do i mean when you screw up but there's no motive for betraying your mission as a journalist. Uh, what to help also not only to keep the lead, but to get your boy reelected in November, which is a big part of the story. Yes. Yes.

And of course all this is happening right around the same time as the Richard jewel cases as well, uh, was happening. So it tells us a great deal about the FBI. And this is one of the reasons why, when I talk to people about what's going on with the FBI, you know, well, there's a really great,

you know, great agency before Biden got in there or whatever, you know? And it's like, no, it's, it's got a history, doesn't it?

It doesn't. There's a weird part to this, David. And then I can never quite figure out is that Jim Kallstrom, who headed the investigation, was also... This really hated the Clintons. In 2016, he was the national security expert for Fox News. He was bashing the Clinton Hillary throughout the whole campaign. And he even endorsed Trump on the air, which was remarkable when you think about it. And yet, whenever

time he appeared, I would hear from family members of the, you know, parents of the kids who were killed on a crash, etc. And they'd say, I see that every time I see Calstrom up there bashing Clinton, when he holds the keys to unlocking this whole story before the election. Yes. Bill Clinton was, you know, the president at the time it happened. And it was sure it would have affected Hillary. So I sent a certified letter to Calstrom.

I got his name, his address from a public, private investigator friend. Sent him a certified letter saying exactly that i said jim you know we see you my these your family members are seething when they see you because they know you could break this open this is your chance to do it in some meaningful way where you could have an outcome uh then this story gets a little funny here, and I have to backtrack a little bit. In November of 1996, November 5th, I think it was two days after the election, Pierre Salinger, who had been the legendary press secretary for JFK, held a press conference in Cannes on the French Riviera,

saying, in conjunction with the French Secret Service, because the plane was flying to Paris and there were a lot of French citizens on board who were killed. He said, he laid out the theory. He said, hey, the U.S. Navy accidentally shot down this plane. And I have the evidence. He goes through his evidence, et cetera. And that was unwelcome news, this is

only three months after the crash, there was no official explanation for what happened yet and yet, just in the month of November, the New York Times ran four stories or opinion pieces mocking Salinger in the headline

you know Pierre, is there a man on the moon? And what they would do then is they would lump in his reporting on the TW 800 with Whitewater, Vince Foster, etc. So making it just another right-wing conspiracy theory being offered in France by the respected former U.S. Senator and JFK press secretary. They humiliated, mocked him. I talked to a lot of people in doing the investigating who said, hey, if they could do that to Salinger, they could do that to me. Okay, so that's… And of course, make Pierre Salinger part of the vast right-wing conspiracy of hillary clinton's imagination right right and this is 1996 november now let's fast forward to uh november 2016.

i vote absentee and to avoid all the hubbub around the election to drive me crazy because i live in a democratic neighborhood i don't want to be here so I go to France for a couple of weeks right and where do I go I go to the Riviera because we're in France in November you want to go someplace where it's still weather is still nice I'm in Nice I'm sitting out on the in Nice uh you know just in the evening just pleasant evening watching the sunset or whatever and on a bench a bunch of french people around and i get a call on my cell phone it says connecticut and i pick it up uh jack cashel i said yes jack and then it's i had heard that jim calston was a profane bully well he totally lived up to his reputation you know i mean just wow i left him my number and he called me this is

now a week or so before the election right wow and and i immediately i'm uh and then he goes on like this he goes you know who you remind me of i said who that effing pierre salinger he held the press press conference on the french river where you were at the time right i said if he knew where i was right now you know he'd be convinced some major french conspiracy to get at him but he was unrepentant and he and he was remarkably ignorant of some of them, both basic details. I don't know how he could not have been aware of my two books. You know, I was on CNN.

I was on various places. Did he actually talk to you about any of the specifics about it? When you say he didn't know anything about the details, did he actually get into some of that or did you just call up? So what he said to me,

are you trying to tell me that a terrorist missile took out this airplane? I said, no, I'm not. I wish I were. I said, are you trying to tell me that a terrorist missile took out this airplane? I said, no, I'm not. I wish I were. I said, I'd be more comfortable with that. I said, what I'm telling you is that the U.S. Navy accidentally shot down our airplane. And that's when he went into the Pierce-Ellinger rant.

You know, that's what you sound just like F.A. Pierce. And I tried to calm him down. He may have been drinking then. And I's he was also i think in the early stages he had cancer he's gonna die a few years later and uh i get him to calm down i say mac we're on the same side in this election here you know i'm you know thinking you could help uh and then he goes were you ever in the u.s were you in vietnam i said no i wasn't you know and then he go off on me for being some sort of wuss or whatever. It was a useless phone call. A day later,

I pick up my phone and I see Connecticut again. I saw him. Maybe I got to him. And I said, hello. He goes, who is this? I said, this is Jack Cashel. I said, oh. He goes, I butt-dialed you. Well, you know, he was the one that I mentioned. And of course it would have been just a couple of days after Pierre Salinger said that. Where he holds that press conference and he says, it never happened. It could never happen.

It's never, ever happened. And yet it had happened. And it had happened just eight years prior to that uh you know what so they were running a navy exercise that was um off the coast of uh long island just like they had been running a naval exercise off the coast of iran and um you know it looks like they accidentally shot down an airliner just like they had done eight years earlier off the coast of iran that was public knowledge, and he pretends that doesn't exist. And in this case, you know, the reasons why they were working in close, they were trusting a new Aegis missile system, which coordinated, you know, they called it a CEC, Cooperative Engagement Capability.

Very sophisticated. There was a reason for doing it in close to a, you know, heavily trafficked area, especially two days before the start of the Olympics. They had excellent intelligence. It's called about this Bojica plot that came out of the, it involved Ramzi Youssef, the World Trade Center bomber at the time. He was, at the time of this, of TW800, he was in prison in New York City, awaiting trial and charges. He had been caught in the Philippines. They got a lot of his information. They found that they had been plotting to use planes as missiles. We saw it come to fulfillment five years later in New York City with the hijacked airplanes.

But another part of the plot was to take a charter plane and fill it with high-energy explosives and attack major targets in populated areas like New York City or Washington. Of course, the Pentagon itself had done, had war game that out with operation northwoods back in the 60s as well when pierre zellinger was uh he was a press secretary he would have known about that kind of stuff then as well so i'm sorry go

ahead i just had to no no but it was a there was a legitimate reason for them to be working in close it wasn't just it wasn't care it was careless but it was um uh nonetheless it wasn't crazy that they because they'd have to be operating in that kind of a high density environment if they would have any effect so uh and it was uh it was a drone exercise they were using a drone uh they were the missiles were to attack the drone they kept the tdw 800 lower than it was normally would because there's a plane going overhead and uh something like 258 people according to the fbi saw the missile attack the airplane and destroy it 96 of those people tracked the missile from the horizon all the way up to the plane some of the eyewitnesses were so spectacularly good the fbi had to uh and working

actually the cia was worse than the fbi had to go back and to uh rewrite their testimony or to create uh second interviews that never took place i identified at least four key eyewitnesses for whom that was true and i talked to them and they were sometimes they were shocked no that they were well you gave them you gave them uh what the official interview was and i said no i didn't say that is that is that the way in fact i start my book with this a woman called uh i just identified as witness 73 although i know her name uh she was on the beach that night with uh uh she was engaged at the time and she was on the beach with some friends of her fiance, her fiance was working

in New York City, she was an aviation professional, travel she was very you know what do you call it, current on airplanes and their flight paths she noticed the TW800, she thought

she caught her eye because it She thought she was she caught her eye because it was flying lower than she thought it should have been at that time. And she was right, because they kept it down to at the time of the attack 13,000 feet. And then she noticed as a separate item altogether, the missile ascending from the horizon, attacking the airplane. And when she called, she goes, Jack, Jack, she goes, this is witness 73. Do you know who I am?

I said, yeah, upside down Nike swoosh, right? She goes, yeah, that's me. She described to the FBI the passage of the missile, the final passage, as an upside-down Nike swoosh. In other words, the plane, the missile corrected and attacked, you know, as it's programmed to do. And she described the breakup sequence of the airplane to the FBI and the NTSB, FBI actually, even before they knew what it was, even before the debris field revealed that she was actually accurate in the way the plane fell apart. And so then she was telling me about, she had just learned about her second, someone

else, I think Stolkoff had contacted her and told her about her second interview. And I asked her about that. I said, you know, it says on the, at first I asked her, I was being naive. I said, why did you change your story when they came back the second time? She goes, you know, because they say here that you were drinking Long Island iced teas that night

and you weren't sure what a Long Island, you know, and you weren't sure what you saw that night. You may have had a few drinks. And she goes, well, first of all, she goes, Jack, I don't even know what a Long Island iced tea is. And I said, could it have been another drink? She said, no, because I don't drink at all, you know. And thirdly, she said, there was no second interview it's never took place no one ever contacted me again uh and her fiance didn't want to talk to the fbi at all he was angry that she had uh the only reason she had come public to me and this is oh at least a dozen years after

the crash because her her then husband or the old fiance was uh in a nearby hospital he's dying and so she wanted to talk and talk us through she still didn't want to go public but she wanted to talk it through and i said well there's something you may not know and she said what's that i said you're one of at least four key eyewitnesses that they concocted fully concocted second interviews with and then put them in their files and then uh to discourage anyone from following up with you uh as as though the media were inclined to do that in the first place wow so that's one of the reasons why i never really put too much uh hope or anticipation and the oh let's get the um the the fbi files onK assassination. It's like, if there is anything there, do you realize how they have rewritten all this stuff and changed everything?

And probably none of it is true if you could even find the paperwork there. That's the way these guys operate, isn't it? You know, who did it here, though? There aren't heroes and good guys in this FBI. There aren't in the CIA, but there aren't yet and one of them is a guy i know his name uh yeah i'll talk about him it's not he hasn't done anything to get him fired from whatever he's doing now his name's steve bongard i i got a lead on him from a whistleblower raytheon who contacted me after my book came out.

Steve was head of the FBI missile team. He was a good guy. He was also featured in the book Looming Tower, is it, by Lawrence Wright? Yeah, Wright's from New York, a mainstream guy. As he tried to blow the whistle in the cover-up to 9-11. It wasn't being done. It should have been done. So he was reluctant at this stage when I got a hold of him,

and now we're in 2016, to go public anymore. He left the FBI, and he was working. He said, Jack, I got a new job, and I got two little kids. I wish I could help you out here, but in his initial report, uh, within two or three weeks of the, uh, of the, uh, crash itself, he had reported back to his superiors that there were at least 144 excellent eyewitnesses to a missile strike. This is an. I have the CIA documents. I have the mother load of CIA documents, which were foiled out.

And the CIA guy in charge who took over, really took over the investigation on day two, a guy named Randolph Tauss. He got a medal for his work. He's like Fauci, right? Exactly. He convinced the FBI that it was premature to go forward with this information for a variety of reasons. And he brags about it in his memo to his boss, you know, how he convinced him to hold back on this information. So the CIA was monitoring the FBI, who had illegally taken over the investigation from the NTSB.

But at least that was public. The FBI publicly took control of the investigation at the behest of the Clinton Justice Department, at the behest of Valerie Caproni, who went since ascending the ranks, Jamie Gorelick, the mistress of disaster, who's the deputy attorney general they worked around jan and reno she was an impediment to their plan she was just a figurehead and uh it was being orchestrated out of the white house and they got away with it wow yeah truly is amazing let's talk a little bit about um the altitude of the plane and and what was happening there now you said the plane of the plane and what was happening there.

Now, you said the plane was at a low altitude. Was that a mistake on their part, or were they told that they needed to fly low because of the naval exercises that were happening? No, they were told to fly low because it just so happened. There was a flight going immediately overhead on the way to, I believe, Providence. Oddly, on board that flight was this guy named Dwight Brumley, who saw everything too. And he was a retired Navy missile guy, right? And they said they made up a new interview for him as well. It was semi-routine, but it was lower than it normally would have been. At that point, it should have been about 16,000 feet,

and then it probably never would have happened. So that was just an unfortunate fate. There was no, I mean, a lot of people ask me, was there someone on that plane? No, they don't take out an airplane to get rid of an individual, except for perhaps the case of Ron Brown, but that's the story for another book about that too. Yeah.

They named a building after him right across from the UN. I remember that the UN covering the name was like the Ron Brown building. I was like, they should have put that in the name of an airport or something, I guess. That's a story for another day, David. That's incredible.

But the, uh, in this case uh no there was nor was an ll plane you know there was an ll plane that was in the in the queue that had taken back but not for conspiratorial reasons 747 the flight 800 was just and in the wrong place at the wrong time, basically. Wow. Wow. So this is, again, this has been going on now. That was 1996. So we've got 26 years. 27 years.

27 years this has been going on. And there's a lawsuit that is happening now. Another person has been investigating that. And has that just started? It's a year on now. And I know they're running into roadblocks, legal roadblocks, national security, this, that, and the other thing. I don't know. I was pretty optimistic because Tom Stalkup is such a serious, no-nonsense, apolitical guy. I can be accused of being political because I kind of am.

But what I try to do is tell the larger story of how this came to be and all the players involved, you know, the whole story. Whereas Stalkoff focuses on the technical details and much better at that than I am. And so when I read his lawsuit, I said, said my gosh he's got a nail and um to me uh he he sees the radar as a smoking gun and he's a rate he knows this stuff because the way uh the way the plane uh broke apart could not have been the result of a fuel

tank explosion which is a soft kind of below energy explosion a billowy kind of thing this is this is a something much more dramatic dynamic uh to me the smoking gun is the Navy P3 Orion that was flying immediately overhead flight 800 when it was destroyed. And they had published, and I have this put in my book, I replicated it in my book, the TW800 book, the model of

a cooperative engagement capability exercise. The P-3 is a plane that communicates that, I'm sorry, organizes the communication among the various combatants in an

exercise group so the intelligence, information stuff goes through the P-3 and it disseminates back to the various combatants in this exercise and includes several submarines and several cruisers etc and so it very well may have the the the missiles that destroy the state of tbr 800 may have come

from the submarine uh there were several submarines in the area and even calstrom admitted that there were at least a couple of cruisers that were equipped with aegis equipment. But it's right overhead. What's it doing there? And then, except if when you see the diagrams of the CECs, you see it right overhead, right in the center of the action.

So what happens afterwards, the accounting of what happens to the P3 does, so they said, and the P3 took shots immediately at the debris field, you know, while it was still smoking on the surface. I've seen those, and they're very enlightening as well. And then, according to the authorities,

well, the P-3 went on a routine sub-hunting exercise off the south coast of New Jersey. Huh? And the plane just blown up? And there's a drop of missiles and, you know, attacks by foreign entities. And this is on a routine sub hunting exercise. It doesn't even, it's not even plausible. Yeah.

Yeah. It's like what we've been seeing with the F-35, you know? So this guy's got it on autopilot and then he hits the eject. And then the other, his wingman just turns back and goes back. It's all these different things. It's like, no, this makes any sense, except unless it was hacked or something. But now, you said you got some FOIA documents from the CIA.

Were there any FOIA documents from the military as part of this with the P-3? No. The document, and I have to give the credit here to some other i work with other people who do some of the the serious lifting and it's like ray lair who's uh uh he was who's now approaching 100 i mean he's incredibly healthy good guy but he was a retired united airline pilot and accident investigator so these are people who know their stuff. There's a lot of high-level military people involved in unearthing the truth here. And Ray is the one who got the, you know,

after years of Freedom of Information Act requests to the CIA, sprung loose this incredible motherlode of information that told the whole story from the CIA's perspective and it's mind-boggling how candid they were among themselves and like I was saying that Randolph Tauss who was the head analyst on this got some sort of like you know freedom medal or something for for his work on TW800 I mean when, when you read that, when you see that, you see how really corrupt the CIA is. So I think the FBI is salvageable.

I don't think the CIA is. So when you say, uh, they were amazingly candid, is it the kind of stuff that we saw with, um, you know, like climate gate where they say, Hey,

our models aren't working. We've got to hide the decline. Was it that type of thing where they're, uh, where they're talking about, Hey, uh, you know,

nobody's buying this official story. How can we change it? It was pretty close to that. But what it really is is a brag by Taos to his superiors about how he's got this thing under control. How he's suppressing this information. They're not bragging like, hey, they're not going to say, hey, we made up a whole second interview.

But it's there you know it's just you have to read between the lines but he does brag i mean that's that's the weird i mean the scary part i should say so it's the kind of stuff like you know yeah i know people are saying this and that but don't worry i got that narrative under control that type of thing that's right pretty much it wow wow it truly is amazing when we see what the government does. And again, the motivation that they had for that, besides, you know, just it was bad enough when it happened in Iran. And they gave a scandalously low amount of compensation to the people in Iran.

Right. And the commander, Rogers, his last name, as his punishment. So let's say you're Derek Chauvin, you make a mistake in Minneapolis, you go to prison for 22 years. If you're the commander of the Vincennes, I believe it was,

you get reassigned to be a trainer at a flight school, right? That's what happens. They protect their own. Okay, I get it. You know a trainer at a flight school, right? That's what happens. They protect their own. Okay, I get it. You know, it's a mistake. I mean, you really shouldn't go to prison for a mistake. But they were reluctant to share a lot of information.

That would be forced out of them, right? And it gets really political, too, because they were really on a hot seat. Congress was going after him because at that time, I remember when the congressional hearings were taking place in 91 or 92, a few years after the actual investigation. And the admiral who was responsible, Admiral Crowe, all of a sudden becomes the first high ranking military official to endorse Bill Clinton for president so you had a democratic congress

doing the grilling of the of the navy and then Crowe is on the hot seat then Crowe endorses Clinton and then all of a sudden all that investigation goes away and then Crowe ends up being like the ambassador to Britain or something. I mean, some really high-level thing.

So they were playing games with it, right, from political games with that, even with that, you know, for reasons. And, of course, wargaming this out, if this had all come out, if the truth had come out that it was an accident but um you know hey you know you look at how uh this uh had political implications for um jimmy carter when they were trying to do the hostage rescue and he had the delta force team a couple helicopters collide in the desert and uh and a bunch of guys die there uh that, that was all, you know, put back on, on Jimmy Carter because he, you know, buck stops there, he's the commander

of this and it's like, have you got an incompetent military or whatever, making mistakes like that, uh, that reflects on the president. Uh, and so that is something that, um, in an election year, uh, you do not want to see that happening and coming back on Clinton. I mean, it was, it would have been a huge thing. It's not even about, uh, the tremendous amount of money that would have been paid to the families, which, you know, don't get the compensation that they really deserve to have.

So they were, they were screwed on that. Uh, but it's the key thing was it was done, uh, to, um, you know, help, uh, Clinton get reelected, uh, because that would have been the nail in the coffin. It doesn't take much to turn people, you know, a disaster of that scale, that would have absolutely done it. Right, especially for a president whose vulnerability was his military weaknesses, you know, he was a draft dodger, etc. And etc and you know the real parallel comes in 2012 with benghazi and in both cases what they do you have a national security disaster before a critical re-election as they just try to kick the can down the road past november and hope for the best

and they did in both cases yeah that truly is amazing well it's a fascinating book and it is a fascinating story and it is an important story because it shows us uh you know all these questions about integrity and our institutions and where they are and how even with good people in various places it's the people at the top that can shut us down and cover it up uh and and so it shows us the institutional rot that has been there for a quarter of a century and uh and of course it goes beyond that as well all of these things happening and around the same time you know the the olympic bombing in atlanta and all the rest of the stuff it just shows how bad these institutions are but especially the cia and um you know no surprise there no yeah you know it's yeah right because we've always had an uneasy feeling about

the cia yeah i always the fbi you know and uh and i think jay jay hoover's got a bad rap i think it was better fbi i think if he had been head of the f at the time, I don't think we would have had this happen. Well, he certainly did a good job of PR, creating his own program with Ephraim Zimbalist Jr. That was drilled into everybody's head. That was a masterpiece of propaganda. Oh, totally.

Master strike. Yeah, he was somebody who knew his way around Washington, and he had documents on everybody there, I think. But yeah, it is. It is interesting. And at a time that people are focused on how the FBI has become a politicized weapon, it's important to go back 26 years and show just how weaponized it was, how weaponized the CIA was, the CIA that lies us into a war in Iraq and all the rest of this stuff with their lies about weapons of mass destruction obtained via torture. So it's important to see

that and not look away. And that's the key thing about this. And so thank you, Jack, for doing this research. Very important. Jack Cashel and TWA 800 behind the coverup and conspiracy is the name of the book. And you can find it on Amazon and everywhere that you can get a book. Barnes and Noble, right? Got it everywhere, right?

Yeah. Okay. Okay. David, thanks a lot for having me. Appreciate it. Thanks. Always great talking to you,

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