The David Knight Show - Peter Hammond, Part 1: Mandela, the Marxist Terrorist

Episode Date: June 11, 2024

Peter Hammond, FrontlineMissionSA.org, joins to discuss Mandela's legacy hidden by his personal charm.  The myth of martyrdom, the fundamental attack on fundamental morality, and many other things glossed over by journalists and filmmakers in Western nations as in Clint Eastwood's "Invictus".   As Dr. Hammond experienced firsthand when he challenged Mandela, under the friendly facade there was a ruthless Marxist in the mold of Stalin or Mao.Follow The David Knight Show on Rumble and watch the show live every weekday 9:00am EST – 12:00pm EST: Rumble: The David Knight Show For 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to TrendsJournal.com and enter the code KNIGHT Find out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.comIf you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-showOr you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @[e-mail] App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Money is only what YOU hold: Go to DavidKnight.gold for great deals on physical gold/silverBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-david-knight-show--2653468/support.

Happiness. We all know what it feels like, but sometimes it doesn't come easy. I'm Garvey Bailey, the host of Happy Enough, a new podcast from The Globe and Mail about our pursuit of happiness. We know people want to live more fulfilling and positive lives, but how do we actually do that? Is there a happiness code to crack? From our relationship with technology to whether money can really buy you happiness, we'll hear from both real people and experts to demystify this thing we're all searching for and hopefully find ways to be happy enough. You can find Happy Enough wherever you listen to podcasts. Well, he then turned to, I'm surprised you're trying to take away women's rights and that you're standing against women's rights.

He is at that stage working for legalization of abortion. I said, Mr. Mandela, you are questioning the Christianity of people who over 40 years ago legalized apartheid. I tell you, Mr. Mandela, it won't be 40 years from now people question your humanity for legalizing abortion. You're replacing apartheid with abortion, and abortion is worth it. Abortion does not just restrict a baby's right as to where it can live, or put it on a separate voter's roll, or limit where it can swim or which cinemas it can go to,

abortion takes where the baby is ripe to live. Even before it's taken its first breath outside the womb, you're advocating discrimination of basis of age. You're replacing discrimination of base of race with discrimination of base of age. And I said the worst apartheid is that which separates a baby from its mother from its life support and at a critical stage and kills it and Mr Mandela what you are advocating is worse than what you have replaced and he was a bit more unsettled now this was Thursday Monday morning knock on the door two senior representatives of the south korean revenue

service which is our equivalent of your irs yeah and they started a intensive seven-year audit they went back six years they carried on for seven years so we'd had a 13-year audit myself my wife personally and every ministry we were involved with personally with the books african action frontline fellowship we were all with, personally with the books, African Christian Action, Frontline Fellowship, we were all audited, and it was so intense, they were demanding millions from us after the first few months in back taxes. Joining us now is Dr. Peter Hammond. He has an amazing background.

He's been involved in a lot of things all over Africa as a missionary, but especially in South Africa where he lives. And he began as, well, he's been doing this for over 38 years. And maybe this is an older biography that I've got. It might be longer than this now. Pioneering missionary. 42 years now. 42.

Okay, there you go. He pioneered missionary outreaches, including into war zones of Mozambique, Angola, and Sudan. He often traveled off-road by motorbike. Peter has traveled hundreds of thousands of kilometers to deliver Bibles to persecuted Christians in Africa and Eastern Europe. And we're going to talk to him today a little bit about the missionary stuff, but we're going to begin with his personal experiences with Nelson Mandela. But let me just read the rest of this to you. His missionary activities, he's been ambushed, he's come under aerial and artillery

bombardments. He's been stabbed, shot at, beaten by mobs, arrested, and imprisoned. He's flown far behind enemy lines to the Nuba Mountains in central Sudan with tons of Bibles, books, medicines, relief aid. He walked through the war-devastated Nuba Mountains showing the Jesus film in Arabic. And you know what that means. He was in a Muslim area. Proclaiming the gospel, training pastors, and evading enemy patrols. I tell you, Peter, thank you for joining us. It looks kind of like 21st century Paul, except you got a motorbike that Apostle Paul never had.

Thank you for joining us. I want to begin with Nelson Mandela because it's kind of interesting, I think, in this country and around the world, we have people who idolize Mandela. We have Clint Eastwood, a libertarian, who did a movie about him. More recently, we had Wayne Allyn Root, who's a big Trump supporter. He said he was the one who put the lyrics up for The Chosen One, this new song that came out. And he said, Trump is like Jesus, he's like Moses, and he's like Mandela. And it's like, what in the world is he talking about here?

And so, you know, it is strange to see that combination of people, and I think it is truly idolatry, but it is amazing that he would hold a conservative, self-professing conservative, would hold Mandela in such high esteem that he would put him there with Jesus and Moses. You met Mandela. Tell us a little bit about your impressions of him. Yes. So Nelson Mandela is a very charismatic person. He's very affable. He's a pretty good public speaker, and he really gets people comfortable around him.

So I can see why some people have been a bit charmed by him. He is a very effective politician in terms of being able to, you know, kiss babies and press flesh, you know, shake on a Springbok rugby jersey at the World Cups when South Africa's Springboks won the World Cup rugby in 1995. That was probably the most astute, brilliant thing he ever did in his political career. And, you know, why would you not want to be associated with the winners of a World Cup, especially when rugby is more than the national sport in South Africa? It was the way to the heart of the Afrikaans and most of the white people. And when Mandela took that shirt on and put on the cap of the Springbok rugby players,

he won a lot of support. And this is what Clint Eastwood immortalized in his film, even though it was a very dishonest film. I did a review, which is on a website, of the Invictus film. The Invictus film is actually an Antichrist film. Invictus is an Antichrist, secular, humorous, atheist poem to whatever, it matters not how straight the gate, nor how charged with punishment the scroll,

to whatever gods there are, declare, I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul. Now, that is the poem of Invictus, and that poem is recited several times over in the film with dramatic music behind by the Nelson Mandela character, which is played by Morgan Freeman, who actually had played God in a couple of different Hollywood films beforehand, no doubt preparing for the role of playing Nelson Mandela. So idolatry is the word. And interestingly enough, the winning rugby team,

the Springbok rugby team in 1995, the World Cup soccer, was containing a number of very key evangelical born-again Christians. And the captain of the team, which is played by the Hollywood star, he gave all the glory to Jesus Christ. Yet in the film, they have this man swearing, sleeping with his girlfriend the night before the match, which his now wife said never happened, and which is totally fictional,

and the man never swore in the match and things like that. And then they have him at the end asking one of the players to thank God for winning the match. And as they said, that's not what we prayed for. We prayed whether we won or lost after every match. We got on our knees and we thanked God for the privilege of taking part in the match.

Whether we won or not was not the issue. We didn't get down on our knees to thank God just for winning the match, but for the privilege of taking part in the match. Whether we won or not was not the issue. We didn't get down on our knees to thank God just for winning the match, but for the privilege of playing in the match. And we would have done it whether we won or lost. And so Francois Pinault, I think it is, who is the team captain, he gave

the glory to Christ, and Clint Eastwood's film gives all the glory to Nelson Mandela. Can you think of any national sport in history where the credit for winning a match is given to the head of state? I mean, does the British Queen or Prime Minister get the glory when the British team wins, which hasn't been for many years, I'll admit.

Does the American government get the honour if an American team wins a match and so on? For that matter, if the team loses, do you blame the government? What about the team's captain? What about the manager? What about the coach? None of that comes into it. Nelson Mandela won the World Cup for this helpless team that had no chance, which isn't true. Interestingly enough, not that I'm a major rugby person, but we all followed this pretty closely at the time. The favorites were not the New Zealanders, but the Australians. And the South Africans knocked the Australians out of the World Cup early on in the tournament,

which, of course, upsets the whole thing that the premise of Invictus film by Clint Eastwood was that the South African team was hopeless, had no chance, and the only reason they were in the match is because they were the host country and so they didn't have to adhere to the same stance which is nonsense and so they knocked out the favorites the australians early on that shows they weren't coming from nowhere being helpless and that nelson mandela sort of egged them along with some amazing speeches and and coaching of the team captain uh it's i must say it's a well-made film unlike long walk to freedom which is just total mindless propaganda and clint eastwood crafted a good piece of propaganda and a well-made film it just is it played very loose for the facts yeah yeah and it never it quite aside from spitting nelson mandela was in this

cell for 30 years which is rubbish he was never in the cell for 30 years, which is rubbish. He was never in that cell for 30 years. He was a prisoner for 26 years and on the island for only part of the time. He was in luxury in other prisons. waters home with a swimming pool and all kinds of things from fax machines, full-screen TVs, big kinds of privileges with cooked meals all the time. He was in luxury. They called it five-star prison where he was at the end. But also they made out that this Robben Island was such a terrible island. It's nothing like the French Devil's Island.

Robben Island's actually a paradise. I've been there. It's a beautiful paradise island. I'm surprised they haven't opened up for tourism yet, because it would be the ideal place to put five-star hotels and so on for tourists when they come. The whole of Cape Town can be under clouds and pouring rain, and Robben Island can be sitting in the sunshine. Well, they could make it a shrine to Mandela at the same time, but then people might realize how nice it was. Yes.

Well, they've already rigged the whole evidence because when people come to do their pilgrimage and now some of them sell and burn incense and light a candle like Bill Clinton did and Hillary Clinton and so on, they've all made their trek and pilgrimage to Mandela. So they've taken out the bed, they took out the desk, they took out his chair, they took all made their trek and pilgrimage to Mandela's cell. They've taken out the bed. They took out the desk. They took out his chair. They took out the bookshelf.

And they put just a mattress on the floor and a bucket in the corner. And you don't see the bookshelves that are in the pictures of when he is there. You don't see the desk or the chair. You don't see the bed. It's just dishonest to say this is how Mandela was locked up in a cell. And then they don't tell you that he had free access to the island all day. Like all the prisoners, he could walk anywhere in this island during the day. They just sat in their cells at night when the sun set. And that puts a whole different perspective on it. I've been in prison in different places in

Africa. And I must say, if I had to be locked up in a prison, I would choose Robben Island as the best option of all of the ones I've seen. And I've been to a lot of prisons around Africa, and I've been an inmate for some. So the way it's been depicted in the film is so dishonest, and they never tell you what he is locked up for, except for opposition to apartheid, which is nonsense. There are many people opposing apartheid who never ended up in prison.

Mandela was in prison for blowing up people, incinerating people, murdering people, for terrorism, for revolution, for subversion, for sedition. He was arrested for sabotage and planning a revolution. He was not locked up for opposing apartheid. There were whole political parties and people who dedicate their lives to fighting apartheid, like Bishop Desmond Tutu, who never ended up in jail at all. So, the film's premise is also false. And, you know, shame on Clint Eastwood, who we like for many other reasons. But on this point, he really adopted this idolatrous view of Mandela's as this

poor, innocent... You know, he's almost like an Alexander Solzhenitsyn character here. Yeah. And Robert Allen's almost like the Gulag Archipelago. Not that they would ever make a film on Solzhenitsyn or the Gulag Archipelago, but that's just the way it's been depicted, and it's so dishonest. Well, let's talk a little bit about, it was the Marxism that you were concerned about. It was the Marxism and the terrorism, which is why he was in prison, but they made it about apartheid. And so when we look at this, what I find interesting is how,

and this happens in America too, if you have some famous charismatic figure, they don't care. Nobody cares about the policies. The policies are shuffled to the back and all becomes about the man, which is kind of what we're seeing. People refer to politicians right now, everybody's in a civil war over Trump. They love him or they hate him.

And so it's about him being the chosen one or whatever. So it's this person that they either demonize or turn into some kind of godlike figure. And I think that is the real common thread between a Marxist from South Africa and what we're seeing happening in politics today. Talk a little bit about why you opposed him. You're not opposed to, you're not in support of apartheid, but you are opposed to Marxism, correct? That is correct. And in fact, I met Nelson Mandela back in 1996. I just marked tens of thousands of people to parliament, the biggest demonstration ever seen in our city of Cape Town. Now, South Africa's got three capitals.

We have a legislative capital, which is Cape Town, where we have our parliament. We have an executive capital, which is Pretoria, where we have the union buildings with the President's office and we have a judicial capital which is Bloemfontein in the centre of the country where we have our Supreme Court. So South Africa has three capitals and Cape Town is the legislative capital. Also the mother city, it was the first settlement in all of South Africa, first official city in the country. So in Cape Town our mission headquarters is not far from Parliament, and I've led many marches and protests to Parliament under the previous government and the present one. And so when Mandela was seeking to paganize this country, and by paganize this country,

I mean legalizing blasphemy, prostitution, pornography, perversion, all of these things, and seeking to legalize abortion, although they hadn't done that yet when I marched this large group of people to Parliament. We shut down Cape Town. Our people were still gathering at the castle when the front group had arrived at Parliament, a solid body of people going for kilometers, for miles through town, blocking all traffic as we marched upon to protest the paganization of South Africa. And our slogan was,

which was Afrikaans for constitution must be based upon God's law. And so we marched to parliament, and after Cyril Rampos, who is the present president, had been sent out to collect our memorandum, and that in itself is an interesting story. I don't want to get sidetracked, but this is relevant. Cyril Rampos was the chairman of the Constitutional Assembly that was drawing up our new constitution. And he was pushed out the door to receive us, and he came out looking terrified. His eyes were wide, and you could just see the terror on him.

And according to our friends inside Parliament, like Kenneth Meshu, he was pushed out the door because the ANC was afraid the end had come. You know, we had 30,000 people outside Parliament. They thought they would be hanging from the lights, the streetlights by the end of the day. But of course, we're Christians, we don't do that sort of thing. But we could have overthrown the government had we been the kind of thugs and revolutionaries that the ANC supporters are. But we didn't break anything, we didn't damage anything, we didn't even leave litter behind. So out comes Sula Rimposa to receive our memorandum, and he sees my Zulu friend standing next to me, Reverend Farno Sabisi, and he says, brother, can I borrow your Bible?

And Farno Sabisi had a beautiful leather Bible purchased in Phoenix, Arizona, by the way, engraved with his name in gold, gold etching on the leather cover, Reverend Farno Sabisi. My father-in-law, Bill Bethman, actually gave it to him as a gift when he visited America. So Silram Persah doesn't wait for Farno Sabisi. My father-in-law, Bill Bethwin, actually gave it to him as a gift when he visited America. So Cyril Rimposa doesn't wait for Farno's response. He just grabs his Bible and takes it under his arm as he walks up the ladder that we'd prepared onto the platform, which was the back of a truck, actually, which was a platform for speaking to this huge crowd. And as Cyril Rimposa gets to the top, he lifts up this Bible and says, look, I'm also a Christian. I bring my Bible with me to Paul every day. I know an American politician who did that.

Yeah, I'm sorry. Go ahead. That's amazing. Now, Cyril Ramaphosa is a guy that was, you know, the current head of the ANC. We'll talk about what just happened in politics there. But he took over, I guess, from Mandela. But he's been there for quite a while. I don't know the succession of political figures there,

but yeah, we'll be talking about him in a moment. So Sulaim Persah was the man that Mandela appointed to chair his constitutional assembly to draft this new constitution that enshrines LGBTQ rights, which enshrines everything from the rights for blasphemy and pornography and legalized prostitution and ultimately the legalization of abortion, all of that. And Ram Perza was the man who paganized South Africa's constitution and made sure we didn't have an humble submission to Almighty God, which the previous constitutions of South Africa always had. So still Ram Perza, he knows how to talk the talk. He knows how to pretend to be a Christian. He was, in fact, an evangelical Christian, a Pentecostal at

university when he was studying. And a friend of ours, Kenneth Meshu, who's a pastor, shared a room with him and said, you know, Silram Perza knew the gospel. He would act like he was a Christian, although, of course, he's an apostate now, being part of the Southern Communist Party and all the rest of it. So, Cyril Rampoza could just lie so fluently, so easily, and he knew that we knew he was lying, but he didn't care because most of the people out there didn't know this, and he was having the people eating out of his hand within minutes. Well, also after this march to Parliament, we had someone come from the President's office instructing us that the President was summoning us to come to Grote Skure Estate, which is the President's mansion, the house that Cecil Rhodes built,

and he donated to the people of the Cape for future leaders of the Cape. Well, the South African President's been staying in there since 1910. And so Mandela summoned me to come to his home on the Thursday. We marched on Tuesday. Thursday I'm summoned to go to the president's mansion, South Africa's equivalent of the White House,

and a huddle of spirits called here, which means the Great Bond. So as I arrived and Mandela came into the room, he immediately asked, so, Mr. Hammond, what were you doing in the years of struggle? Now, struggle is what the communists call the revolution, the fights and so on. So I said, I was fighting people like you, sir. And he smiled, he laughed, he slapped his knee, he stood up and he came over and he shook my hand. And he said, I'm so glad to meet an honest white man. He said, all the whites whites have met so far have

told me they always supported me and never supported the national party i wondered how the national party stayed in power for 40 years when all the whites actually supported me and i said well man mr mandela make no mistake i was not fighting um for apartheid i was fighting against communism and i was fighting against terrorism and so mandela said but apartheid, I was fighting against communism and I was fighting against terrorism. And so Mandela said, but apartheid is the greatest evil in the history of the world. And I said, I cannot agree with that, Mr. President. That prize must go to your friends, your supporters, the communists. They have left 160 million corpses in the 20th century so far, just since 1917. And that's according to the Black Book of Communism, written by ex-communists, using their

own documents themselves, documenting over 100 million people killed in the communist countries, according to their own records in Eastern Europe. Of course, we don't yet have the records for Red China, but we know that that could add about another 68 million more of what Mao Zedong added. And we're not talking about enemies, foreigners killed in war. We're talking about civilians killed in peacetime by their own governments. Yes. Of 160 million corpses littering the 20th century from secular, humanist, atheist governments, communist governments.

They have been the greatest mass murderers in the history of the world. Well, as I said that, Mr. Mandela was still silent. So I went on and I started to catalog also the millions killed by Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and, of course, Vietnam, all the way went through to Ethiopia. And Mengistu, who was his friend and ally, who was hiding in South Africa to escape from the south africa to escape from the uh genocide um prosecutions against him from international criminal court and uh then i went on to fidel

castro his best friend who he had just welcomed south africa and had addressed a joint sitting of our congress um well both the senate and the lower house of assembly and gave him the biggest award south africa's got to give and mentioned the millions killed under Fidel Castro in the island paradise he turned into a hellhole that millions of people are seeking to flee on rafts and shark infested waters and when I finished all this Nelson Mandela leaned back, stared at the ceiling and went on a trip down memory lane. When I was a prisoner of the Boers on Robben Island, he said, they would not allow me to wear long trousers or sunglasses. My eyes are very sensitive.

Now, interestingly, when you go on your pilgrimage to Robben Island and to Nelson Mandela's cell, they've got a huge picture, I mean a floor-to-ceiling picture of Nelson Mandela in long trousers and wearing sunglasses leaning on his shovel at his garden patch. So I presume that meant at some stage, because certainly he's pictured wearing long trousers and wearing sunglasses at some stage there. So that couldn't have been for that, but I didn't want to argue this. So I said, well, Mr. Mandela, my eyes are also very sensitive, and I can appreciate how uncomfortable it would be to be deprived of sunglasses in the sun outside.

Again, just reminding him that I do know that he spent a lot of time outside the cell, because they were allowed the full reign of the place outside, and he had his own vegetable garden and things like that. But I said, but Mr. Mandela, I'm sure you'll agree with me that that hardly compares with the atrocities documented by alexander salt and it's in the gulag archipelago well he then turned to um i'm surprised you're trying to take away women's rights and that she's standing against women's rights he is at that stage working for legalization of abortion i said mr mandela you are questioning the Christianity of people who over 40 years ago legalized apartheid.

I tell you, Mr. Mandela, it won't be 40 years from now people question your humanity for legalizing abortion. You're replacing apartheid with abortion, and abortion is worse. Abortion does not just restrict a baby's right as to where it can live or put it on a separate voter's roll as to where it can live or take it or put it on a separate voters roll or limit where it can swim or which cinemas it can go to uh abortion takes where the baby's right to live even before it's taken its first breath outside the womb you're advocating discrimination the basis of age you accept you're replacing discrimination discrimination of race with discrimination of age.

And I said, the worst apartheid is that which separates a baby from its mother, from its life support, and at a critical stage and kills it. Mr. Mandela, what you are advocating is worse than what you have replaced. And he was a bit more unsettled. And, you know, we basically had a tennis match backwards and forwards, batting boards about these different issues. And as the hour finished, the clock sort of struck the time. He stood up and he said, you may take your photographs now. Well, I didn't mean to be rude, but honestly, I had not brought a camera.

I had not thought about the pictures. And I said, no, thank you, Mr. President. And he stopped and his jaw dropped and he looked absolutely shocked. Maybe we were the first people that met with him who didn't want the pictures taken with him. But what would I do with a picture of myself with Nelson Mandela? So we said, but we would like to pray for you. And he said, no, no, it's very private. And he was dismissive. And i pretended i hadn't heard i put my hand on his shoulder and reverend uh zune zevenster who is

with me put his hand on the other shoulder and i prayed lord god may not give mr mandela one moment's peace until he does what he knows is right and just in the next legislation to protect pre-born babies from the violence and injustice of abortion. And I prayed, Lord, I pray that you will work on Mr. Mandela's heart that he may bow the knee and surrender to you as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. And I gave him a book written by Dr. James Kennedy that I thought would be appropriate for someone

who's a secular humanist and atheist, which showed a lot of God's hand in history and under all Marxist interest in history. And Mr. Mandela said, Mr. Hammond, my door is always open to you. I'm always responsive to the concerns of your constituency, which isn't the way I would have put it, but anyway, very nice, very charming. And now this was Thursday. Monday morning, knock on the door two senior representatives

of the south can revenue service which is our equivalent of your irs yeah and they started a intensive seven-year audit they went back six years they carried on for seven years so we'd had a 13-year audit myself my wife, and every ministry we were involved with, Christian Liberty Books, African Christian Action, Frontline Fellowship. We were all audited, and it was so intense. They were demanding millions from us after the first few months in back taxes. But we're a tax-exempt organization. In fact, we have got it confirmed from our revenue service.

We are tax-immune. We are tax immune. We are tax exempt. We are a non-profit public benefit organization, a Christian mission. We don't owe taxes. But I had to hire a lawyer and an accountant to get us out of trouble, keep us out of jail

and to prevent us bankrupting our little mission. And we had our accountant saying, you're a small operation. Senior investigators at the South African Revenue Service normally go for massive companies. Your budget is not even in their petty cash level. And we were a very small mission then. We're not that big now, but we were minuscule back in the 1990s when Mandela started his campaign against us. And how's that?

He's so charming to our faces, but he sets his dogs on us. Yes. And at the end, by the way, of a 13-year audit, the senior investigators concluded that we owed them not a penny. Wow. My wife had to fork out 1,000 rand for some things. We had to get affidavits from family, grandparents, and friends for gifts given to cover kidney surgery for our child, our child being born with kidney failure. And, you know, even gifts from grandparents and so on needed avidavits.

And my wife couldn't quite get everything signed off as she needed to. And so she ended up paying 1,000 rand. But that hardly justifies a seven-year audit by senior investigators, the revenue service, the missions, the ministries, and myself owed them nothing. And that was our experience of Nelson Mandela. Charming to our face, but- It is amazing. It is amazing how the tactics are the same worldwide. And that's one of the things I'll just say for our American audience here. When you look at this army of IRS agents, $80 billion to grow the IRS nine times bigger than it is right now.

You want to talk about lawfare? Well, that's what's coming for each and every one of us. That's what this is really truly about. That's always been the way they have politically used that. And so let me ask you, you mentioned Cyril Ramaphosa, and he went from, I guess, waving a Bible at the meeting there to leading chants a few years ago about kill the boar, kill the white man. Where is the South African Communist Party today? I know the ANC just lost election for the first time in 30 years.

Well, an interesting thing about that, the South African Communist Party is part of what they call the tripartist alliance. The ANC, the South African Communist Party, and the COSATU, the Congress of Trade Unions, are united together in one. And the ANC is basically a front for the South African Communist Party. Every president of the ANC, every president of South Africa since 1994 has been a senior member of the Southern Communist Party. Now, if you go onto the Southern Communist Party website, as I've done, you will first of all find an intriguing thing that they're selling linen, baseball caps, linen T-shirts and mugs and so on, visa cards accepted.

And so that seems awfully capitalist to me. But the next thing that's intriguing is, and I've seen this for years, the Southern Communist Party is not placing any candidates in the upcoming elections, but advises all cadres to vote for the ANC candidate. What does that tell you? Southern Communist Party has never bothered to put up a candidate because they control us ANC. By the way, just for amusement, I went onto the Communist Party USA website. And what did I see? They're also selling baseball caps, linen t-shirts, linen mugs and pens and so on, and visa cards accepted and all that.

But the Communist Party USA is not putting up a candidate in the upcoming elections. Now, I've been seeing this since the days of Clinton, by the way, and Obama, and certainly right now. Communist Party USA is not putting up a candidate in the next elections, but advises all cadres to vote for the Democratic Party candidate. What does that tell you about the Democratic Party of today? They should be the ones with the red tie actually yeah and that's one of the greatest coups they ever pulled out there is to get conservatives to say we're red we're red states and all the rest of the stuff i said and i've heard this from so many people lived under communism i talked to sheevan fleet she said i can't believe you know red has always been the color of communism i can't believe that they got people in america to embrace that and it's because we don't know history and it's because we listen to the media, and because we accept whatever labels they invent. It's amazing.

Yes, sadly, Serna, I know my history pretty well. I love history, and I've been a mystery for 48 years, especially to persecuted churches. I've worked behind the Iron Curtain throughout the whole of Eastern Europe during the dark days when we had to smuggle Bibles behind the iron curtain of secret meetings. And it's been very clear to me that communism, not only is always red, but they've infiltrated the West to such extent, many people don't recognize. I don't know how many people realize that Abraham Lincoln, who's an idol in America, I would say Abraham Lincoln is to the United States what Mandela is to South Africa, what Vladimir Lenin is to the Soviet Union, an idol. And to walk the mall, as I've done, and to get to this massive temple and to see this phenomenal outsized idol of Abraham Lincoln sitting in a Roman throne. It's not a church, it's a throne. It's a Roman throne, a Caesar's type throne.

And what are the words in that marble behind? In this temple, as in the hearts of her people, for whom he saved the union, is enshrined the memory of Abraham Lincoln forever. Words as forever saved um you know hearts it's these are all religious terms yeah and uh and it's a fascist um symbol that he's resting his hands on and this this uh lincoln memorial was built in 1930s when the fascist symbol was a symbol of mussolini's fascist running italy and on every one of the italian air force planes the same symbol the the different um sticks uh bound together with the x in the middle um and even the way it's bound and the knots and so on it's exactly the same as the fascist party symbol and that's what abram lincoln's idol is resting his hands on in the uh temple in the mall i never noticed that i The fascista, I know what you're talking about.

I never noticed that. Certainly, there is an amazing idolatry of politicians, just as we idolize entertainers, and I think that's one of the key things that we need to be aware of. When we talk about idolatry of politicians, it is about people say, well, I'm not making him a god. I'm saying that he's not a god and yet everything that you do says that he is a god and the way that you treat him well what's also interesting is this explains why the republican party have the red tie and democrats have the blue tie although right now they should swap as he said but but Abraham Lincoln was a correspondent with Karl Marx Karl Marx was so impressed with what Abraham

Lincoln was doing. You know about the 48ers. The 48ers were 1848ers, the revolutionaries. Of course, 1848, when the Marxist Manifesto came out, the communist revolution tore every capital in Europe apart. Many people died. As a result, many of the ringleaders were captured and hung, guillotined, or shot, as the case may be, around Europe. Many of the survivors fled across the Atlantic to North America and became the founders of the Republican Party. The Republican Party started out as a radical, revolutionary, Marxist-type operation, which is why they have the red tie. And many of the worst atrocities committed against the Confederates, especially the landowners, were done by 48ers, European Marxists who were in the Union Army,

none of whom were prosecuted or fired or demoted for their war crimes. And there were terrible war crimes, burning of churches, raping of women, burning of farmsteads, hideous atrocities done. The 48ers were only promoted, and they were the backbone of the Union Army of Abraham Lincoln. And it just explains why Abraham Lincoln is so popular in Cuba, for example. Yeah. Let me interject here. I like to read alternate—I used to have more time to read, but I used to like to read alternative history.

And Harry Turtledove does some of the best alternative history in a book they did, How Few Remain. He ends the Civil War very early on. One little thing changes, and that changes the outcome of the Civil War. And so most of the characters survive. Abraham Lincoln is driven out of office in his alternative history uh in shame but then he returns a few years later as the head of the socialist party he knew his history he really did and so do you that's that's really it's truly amazing in cuba you see they've got the avenue abraham lincoln i said why would you name an avenue in havana after to a capitalist like Abraham Lincoln. And the Cuban said, no, he's not a capitalist.

He has a comrade. He's one of us. And maybe you've seen a picture of Fidel Castro visiting the Lincoln Memorial, standing, looking very much in reverence, staring up at this massive idol of Lincoln. And that's one of the famous pictures from Time Life magazine of Fidel Castro paying his respects at the Lincoln Memorial.

Well, they've got an Abraham Lincoln high school in Cuba. They like Abraham Lincoln. You might recall that the communists actually had an Abraham Lincoln battalion or legion in the Spanish Civil War, fighting inside the communists against the nationalists. And at any rate, my main point here is that there's a lot of similarity between Lincoln and Lenin. I mean, Vladimir Lenin also saved the Soviet Union, fighting against the South, meaning the Ukrainians, the Georgians, and so on. The Soviet Union also has a Georgia. And Vladimir Lenin was also, like Abraham Lincoln, a complete failure in life as a lawyer and everything else, who had never achieved anything until he became the dictator of a state. And then his main achievement is that he saved the Union in a civil war, a brutal civil war

in which millions died in the case of Soviet Union, only a few hundred thousand in the case of the United States of America. But we won't add all the other lives that died because of a centralized state, abortion and all the other things, and imperial wars overseas. But the way how Lincoln is revered in America and the way how Lenin is revered in the Soviet Union led to George Grant, an author, giving a sermon that you can hear on sermon audio, Lincoln and Lenin. One can just check it up on sermon audio, Lincoln and Lenin, and I think it's given

much better by George Grant, the Audio, Lincoln and Lenin, and I think it's given much better by George Grant, the similarities between Lincoln and Lenin. But enough to say I've got books on my shelf on Lincoln, Uber Ellis, and Lincoln's Marxists, and there's an older book made on the real Lincoln. So if any listeners, viewers want to look into the other side, I maintain that Mandela is to South Africa what Lincoln is to the United States, and Martin Luther

King, or should I say Michael King, is to the United States an idol, what Mao Zedong is to the communist red Chinese, what Lenin is to the Soviet Union an idol, what Churchill is to England, let me add as well. I mean, many countries have their idols, and as Christians, we should not be that thrilled to want to have an idol, because the sin most condemned in the Bible is idolatry. Yes. Idolatry. Making an idol, putting an idol, whether it's a political idol, a sex idol, a pop idol, a rock idol, a Hollywood idol, a sports idol, any idol that takes the place of first thing in our life. It should be God, and God alone should be getting all the glory. Soli Deo Gloria. And so we as Christians need to reject idolatry. Idolatry led every single prophet in the Bible

to condemn Judah and Israel, and God abandoned Jerusalem and the temple to be destroyed, and all of Israel to be taken off into Assyrian captivity and all of Israel to be taken off into Assyrian captivity, all of Judah to be taken off into Babylonian captivity because of the sin of idolatry. Idolatry destroys nations and civilizations. We should not play with idolatry. That's right. And it can be people, most obviously people, and people say, well, of course, Lincoln is not a god, but they still idolize him nevertheless. But it can also, in our own lives, it can be things like sex, money, and power. These are also things that can become idols in our life.

Let me ask you, as we talk about moral principles and as you were leading that march against Mandela because of the overthrow about moral principles and as you were leading that march against Mandela because of the overthrow of moral principles foundationally in the Constitution, why is it that Marxists always want to overthrow moral principles? Why do they always push abortion and hedonism and all the rest of this? Well, Christianity is the biggest enemy of communism and atheism and they the principle of communism is atheism atheism is the essential foundation for a communist state and so the biggest threat is christianity notice they don't put the energy into fighting against things that are other than christianity they're not after the cult so much and not after

false religions they're after christianity christianity is the cults so much. They're not after false religions. They're after Christianity. Christianity is the enemy. And so to destroy a country, you've got to steal their history. And in fact, just to quote Karl Marx, the old gods must be pulled down so that we can, and all the old statues must be pulled down to erect new gods. We must replace the gods of Christian Europe with our own gods, which is why they make gods of Dzenzki or the founder of the Cheka, which later became the KGB. They must lift up, well, Trotsky was lifted up for a while,

but of course then he went out of favor, and Berea also, and the statues are toppled. But Karl Marx, Stalin, he got toppled after he died, and then, of course, others since then. And they always need to put in their new gods. And I believe the family is the basic building block of society. So how do you destroy the family? Well, of course, if you can get men to abandon their natural responsibilities

to become husbands and fathers and providers and protectors and so on. Well, pornography is a good way of distracting men to go after digital dolls and paper dolls and to waste their lives, waste their energy, and to distract them from their highest priority. The most important thing all of us can do is be straight, get married, and have children, and raise them in the love and the fear of God, and to be hardworking citizens who will contribute to civilization. And if any of your ancestors had failed to do that, you wouldn't be alive today. And so for all of us to get married, but now what are they doing? Abortion, sterilization, transsexualism, transgenderism, gender fluidity. Let's castrate the young boys let's have

mastectomies for the young girls let's sterilize them effectively because that means extinction for that race and they want to eradicate our christian heritage they can see whether it's pornography with its transcendentism with its abortion sterilization euthanasia the whole goal is extermination or genocide for those races that have been traditionally Christian and which have this horrible attitude of, give me liberty or give me death. No taxation without representation. Let's get rid of those people. What we want is a bunch of puppets who like Play-Doh in our hands that we can use like guinea pigs in our social revolution who will support the government, offer them

freebies, offer them all kinds of things. And if you can bring down the population of the traditionally Christian nations and swamp them with invaders from other countries where you've destroyed their economies and their stability, terrorize the populations that people are fleeing, attract them to come to the previously Christian countries where they can be enticed with lots and lots of free this and free that, and we'll give you free Wi-Fi, we'll give you free cell phones,

and put you up in hotels and fly you all over the country, and you can get away with almost anything. Even if you want to come here to be a drug dealer, human trafficker, pimp, whatever, that's not a problem. Come, as long as you vote for our party and our candidacy, you're more than welcome. And so this is part of the communist revolutionary tactics. And in fact, I think you've got to see where this came from.

The communist international already in 1920s recognized that Lenin got lucky. And to quote Antonio Gramsci, who was the founder of the Communist Party in Italy, he said, we're not likely to get the same correlation of forces in Western Europe. Europe is too Christian. We'll never be able to replicate the Russian Revolution in the rest of Europe. We're not likely to ever get a violent revolution like that again. That was just a unique correlation of forces. We got super lucky in Russia. But in the West, you will only conquer the West when you can destroy Christianity. We've got to turn the Christian mind into a non-Christian mind, and then into an anti-Christian

mind. This will take at least two generations, he said. We must use the five culture-carrying institutions to transform the society, to act like what he called cultural termites. The five culture-carrying, culture-transforming institutions are education, entertainment, news media, religious institutions, political institutions. And they spoke about the long march through the institutions of the West. We've got to rot out the pillars holding up Western civilization. And he used the imagery of a termite eating the woodwork of wooden pillars. Now, you can put as much whitewash on the outside as you like,

but one day, if the termites do their job, the pillars will collapse and the whole edifice will collapse with it. And so cultural termites, and this is called the Gramsci strategy. The Frankfurt School of Marxism in Germany were the ones advocating this, the Frankfurt School, and when the National Socialists gained control of Germany and they pushed out these people, they fled, and many of them went to American universities like Harvard and Columbia, and they started to eat out the heart of Western Christianity in America too.

Many also went to Hollywood. And for a time, the Communist Party was the only party in town, literally. Literally the only party in town. And they hijacked Hollywood very early on. And this was a vision of Stalin. Stalin said the cinemas in the West must become the new temples, the new outreach centers, the churches to advance communism. And for a time, they actually succeeded very well.

And then the Hollywood decency code of conduct came in, which from 1936 to about 1966 kept a basic standard in Hollywood. But then after the 60s, the Protestant film office closed down because $70,000 a year was too much money to try and influence for the good Hollywood. And the Catholic League of Decency also closed down Hollywood. And they were taken over by, instead, the Church of Satan moved in, and Hollywood just went berserk from the late 60s on, and you could just see everything evil being promoted, everything good being denigrated, laughed at, debased, slandered, taking God's name in vain became common, and they popularized amongst a population that didn't use to swear, swearing,

and blasphemy. So even Christians will use some of these terms, oh my, OMG, and so on, which they wouldn't have done before. And so Hollywood has succeeded in doing a lot of what communism needs to do according to the Gramsci strategy. Erode the Christian foundations of Western civilization, and soon the communists will just be able to move in and take over, which I think people have just noticed in recent years

how that's actually worked out. You just have to look at the Obama and the Biden administrations to see how that's working out now. After generations of the Gramsci strategy and the eroding of Christian foundations, you can see this is why when Mandela came to power in South Africa, he knew his first priority had to be to undermine the Christian foundations of South Africa. South Africa in the past, now I was brought up in Rhodesia, which was not that Christian,

but we were fighting communism. And so when I came to South Africa in 1977, as my country was being betrayed to communism, I came into a South Africa that's radically different from today. Churches predominated. Churches everywhere. No cinemas open on Sundays. No shops open on Sundays. Sundays were for the Lord's Day for worship. Blasphemy was illegal.

Pornography was illegal. You'd watch a film like Dirty Harry, and there was not one bit of smut, not one swear word in it. The censors would cut out every take of the Lord's name in vain, every swear word, any nudity, any sex, any unnecessary violence, or church response would be cut out by our censors. And I must say, as a youngster, I thought when people were really angry, their mouth opened and no words came out. Because they would cut out the audio for some of these things and so um it was nice to grow up like that our school started bible reading prayer hymn singing

the army the first thing that i saw going into south african army uh was the sergeant major standing in the middle of the parade ground as we were disgorged from our bedford trucks and what's the first words i heard from the serge Major in the Army? Anglicans! Assembly to God! Baptists! Brethren! And he'd divide us into denominational groupings around a parade ground. There were tables with clocks sitting, taking down a false number,

details and all this, because it was for roll call. Church attendance was not optional in the South Canary. Church attendance was compulsory. Now, now of course the chaplain service midweek would be done by your company and it'd be roll call for that too but sunday services in your denominated national affiliation was compulsory and they were going to check that you did that we were issued our bibles before we were issued our rifles and quiet time to enforce

the south army um 15 minutes in the morning and about 15 minutes at night before the bugles sounded and you had to have lights out and so the south can army entrenched this and just to show you the kind of spirit how different it was before mandela took over after they'd called out about 70 denominations there were still four men in the middle of the field, and the sergeant major said, well, what are you? And we all looked and thought, well, what could that be? We've heard it all. And so one of them stood up and said, atheist, sir. Arch Major Scalney said, atheists?

Atheists? Swarper are atheists. The ANC are atheists. You want to be an atheist, you join the communists. This is a Christian army. Send them to the Pentecostals. And instead of a 40-minute Anglican service, instead of a one-hour Baptist service, they've got a three-hour Pentecostal service every Sunday.

That was the old South Africa. Very different from today. I at one point was distressed by some taking the Lord's name in vain, and I went to the commandant, the Lieutenant Colonel in charge of base and I said, Sir, is it against the law to take the Lord's name in vain? He said, it certainly is, son. Why do you ask? Are men taking the Lord's name in vain in my unit? I said, Sir, I'm sorry to report to you that they are and your non-commissioned officers are foremost in the offense and he said leave it with me son i'll deal with this i saluted did an about turn left the commandant's office and i mean it's

also interesting that as an enlisted soldier rufflman of no rank i had the ability to approach the commander about something like this and he did act on it the very next friday italian parade the the commandant or lieutenant colonel stood up after the singing of the national anthem and raising the flag, and he said, The Lord Jesus Christ is the commander-in-chief of this army. Any man who takes the name of the Lord Jesus Christ in vain is a traitor, and I will treat him as such. It is the Lord Jesus Christ who determines whether you live and when you die. The victory doesn't go to the strong, but to the righteous. And if you are taking the Lord's name in vain,

you're undermining the lives of all the men in your company and your battalion. And this is unacceptable. I will crush you to dust. I will grind you to powder. Nobody takes the Lord's name in vain. Well, as we came off the parade ground, a staff sergeant in charge of our particular platoon started to swear and take the Lord's name in vain. Well, as we came off the parade ground, a staff sergeant in charge of our particular platoon started to swear and take the Lord's name in vain and say,

I don't bleep bleep bleep care what any bleep bleep bleep commandant says about bleep bleep bleep the Lord Jesus Christ. And I went and I laid a charge against that staff sergeant, and he got stripped of his rank. He got drummed down to the ranks. The commandant was serious. You don't take the Lord's name in vain. If one stick of something considered vaguely pornographic was found in any bungalow, the entire platoon was sent on a fuss bait, a 8.4-kilometer run with poles, drums, tires, massive tractor tires, you know, running. And this would be a normal punishment for, and of course,

passes being canceled. People doing anything of course, pass has been cancelled. People doing anything immoral, which was dealt with, I don't think you could imagine that happening in the US Army, but that happened in the old South African Army. And this is what Mandela fought against. And by the way, when Mandela came to power,

there was a very insightful article in the London Times. London Times says, you must be sympathetic to poor Nelson Mandela, because what he's dealing with is not just the legacy of apartheid. His real battle is against Calvinism. South Africa is the most Calvinist, reformed country on the planet, and this is what the real battle of Nelson Mandela is. It's against Calvinism. That's the London Times in England. So insightful. And that's exactly what he did. He started a wage war against Christianity from the

first day he came to power. Wow, that's amazing. Now, you know, we see this today, and you talk about the march through the institutions, and you talk about tearing down the statues and the monuments to the past and erecting their principles, their leaders, and that type of thing. But I think the most telling of all this is as we're in the middle of Pride Month here in America, we have a couple of different places one of them in the southeast of the nation down in st petersburg florida the other

one is up in washington state uh spokane washington where they go in and paint rainbow murals on the street and we've had teenagers in both places uh who i guess they are sick of having the LGBT doctrine rammed down their throat, left skid marks in both places. And they are all, three of them up in Washington and one of them down in St. Petersburg, they are all up for felony charges. They could get up to 10 years. Isn't that amazing how we are marching through the institutions? And I think especially when I look at what is happening through the churches right now,

there's a massive capitulation within the churches to LGBT. It's just you have to be embracing and inclusive. This idea of inclusivity is just eating its way through like termites in the Christian churches here in America. Yes, I understand that the whole LGBTQ is a key part of the Marxist strategy. They found a way to persecute Christians in Western countries because they've made such an idol of LGBTQ that our freedom of speech in the past is gone.

Our freedom of conscience, our freedom of religion, freedom of worship is shattered if it infringes on the LGBTQ community. That's right. That's right. That's right. And bear in mind, LGBTQ+, the plus includes pedophilia and… Yeah, it's coming. Yeah, pedophilia, which is the next step. The point is, if you speak out against these things because of Christian conviction, you've

opened yourself up to persecution. And it's only going to get worse. They can't lock you up in the average Western country for believing in God and believing in the Bible, but they have made it in such a way that if you offend somebody, you could get locked up. Friends of mine in England got arrested in Bristol for open-air preaching. Now, that's where George Whitefield launched the Great Evangelical Awakening, with open-air preaching in bristol and you get people have gotten arrested in hyde park where you can say anything i mean you could stand up there and curse

the queen when she's alive and hyde park is a place of free speech but if you offend some homo some pervert or whatever then the police arrest you and they've been older people gray-haired people beaten up by thugs and the police stand by doing nothing and in the end they arrest the man who was beaten up not the ones who assaulted him because he said he said some thought crime that hurt someone's feelings we've got legislation in South Africa called the hate speech bill where it's not if you hurt someone it's if you offend someone now you may not have intended to offend the person but if the other person feels offended by what you said i mean theoretically it could be as simple as well you know biologically there's only two genders or marriage can only be between a man and a woman or jesus said i'm the way the truth and life no one

comes to father but by me any of those statements might offend someone and next thing you can be guilty of a criminal charge for quoting what the Bible says or stating some fact of biological science. And this is where they're going. They start out saying, we want tolerance. Well, they've got tolerance. But then they didn't want tolerance. They wanted conformity and approval and applause. So it goes from tolerance to applause to conformity to you've got to fund it and we've got to be able to um groom your

children and your grandchildren and if you object we will prosecute you this is where it's going this is just a new stick invented by the communists as a new way of persecuting christians yeah and mandela saw this early on he entrenched in the south constitution or i should say got silver imposer to entrench the constitution, the sexual orientation right. Now, this has never been in any constitution before. You might have a bill, but in the constitution, you're right to any sexual orientation, which theoretically could be that a person's sexual orientation is paedophilia. And now if you oppose that, you could be guilty of infringing on that man's rights because of the way they phrased the constitution. So these Marxists are quite clever, and it's no accident that many of the Marxist leaders

that you know of are lawyers. I mean, we can start with Lincoln and Lenin, and of course, in South Africa, Mandela, Oliver Tambu, Clintons, Obamas, all lawyers. You know what they say, 96% of lawyers give the rest a bad name. But it's amazing how many Marxists are lawyers. They take the laws and they twist them in order to advance their agenda. And we need to get back to the principle that all law must be based upon God's law, or it is invalid and has no power.

You laid out an interesting presentation of what life was like before the communists what life was like even in the military uh give us an idea now that we're what 30 years on in all of this uh what give us a a sense of uh life in south africa i know that uh with ramaphosa out there leading uh cries about kill the white man kill the boar and things like that. There's been a lot of talk about ginning up a race war. I think that's another component of what we see happening here in America. And then, of course, communists are all about seizing property. Where is all of this at this point in time? And why did the ANC lose this latest election?

What is changing there? What I'm astounded is that anybody voted for them again. Now, you know, if you make a mistake, we're all human, we all make a mistake, but if you make the same mistake twice, you're stupid. You make the same mistake three, four, five, six, seven times, you know,

you shouldn't be allowed out of the home without adult supervision. And for anyone to vote for the ANC in the seventh election just boggles the brain because they have stolen, they've looted. So to give you a sense of how our country is, I used to use the postal service a lot. I mean, we had sent out thousands of unusual letters around the world.

I could, if I'm going on a speaking tour, I could send a box of books. Five kilograms could be under five rand and i mean right now a letter one letter costs five rand but the postal service has collapsed we don't have a postal service south african postal service like every state owned enterprise has collapsed we don't have post offices our post office have closed they've so looted the place the south african airways which used to be consistently in the top 10, sometimes in the top one of best airlines in the world, doesn't exist anymore. South African Airways, totally bankrupt, finished.

You can go to South African airports. There's no SAA cubicles. Don't see a South African Airways plane on the runway because they've bankrupted it. They've looted the place completely. And it's not that they were giving away free tickets we paid a lot for it and then before you knew it they'd bankrupted the airways our eskom the electricity supplier for the country the electricity company is so bankrupt they've lost billions hundreds of billions of rands lost stolen by their leaders so we have power failures. So the average day in

South Africa can be two, four, six, even eight hours of power failure. Some parts of the country can get 12 hours power failure a day, scheduled. Now, let me interject and say, is this traditional communist corruption that's destroying the energy infrastructure, or is this also combined with the green stuff that we see here in America? It is combined with the green stuff. So to give you an example, the European Union paid a 6 billion euro bribe to the ANC government, 6 billion, not million, billion, and that was to stop coal production and to close down a lot of working coal plants that are providing energy for millions of people yeah they closed down and just to show you for that bribe from the eu do you know what's happened our coal is now being shipped to europe to the eu so we've got our trains and i've seen them kilometers of

trains coming in from our coal mines going to the port cities loading onto ships to go to europe so the eu has the audacity to have us close our coal power plants and then to buy our coal in huge numbers they need coal because they're not getting the gas from russia because they're and then of course sending it to china they're they're allowed to build the dirtiest power plants that they want and as many of them i've always said that environmentalism is uh like a watermelon it's got a thin veneer of green, and on the inside, it's all Marxism. It's red. Yes. So, you used to get, in communism, you used to get the order of Lenin. Now, you get the order of the watermelon. And I'd say

Gorbachev gets the order of the watermelon. Did you notice, when Gorbachev was thrown out in Russia, do you know what he did? He came over and he took over the Presidium in San Francisco and opened up this Green Institute, what they called the Green Cross of Memphis. And his Politburo that had been kicked out of power in the Soviet Union moved over lock, stock, and barrel and moved into running the Green Movement from San Francisco under Gorbachev. And then Gorbachev wrote the new Ten Commandments,

as they called it, at Rio. Rio, what was it, 1992, was it? They had the Rio environmental thing. Gorbachev was a key author of this. So the communists moved from running the Soviet Union to running the green movements in the West. Check it out. It's absolutely staggering. And now you get the order of the watermelon, because the order of Lenin people have now moved into green movements.

Because it's not about green energy. It's about control. Through pretending to care about the environment, the people who destroyed the third largest sea in the world, the Ural Sea, by over-irrigating until the fishing villages were 100 kilometers from the shore because they over-irrigated and they drained the whole Ural Sea. The National Geographic documented this worst environmental disaster

done under the Soviets. Only central planning by a communist party can cause environmental catastrophes on that level. You can imagine all the fish dead in the sea, whole fishing villages bankrupted. What the Soviets could do, what they did with the Danube, with a massive dam they put in Hungary. I mean, that's another story.

The communists have the worst pollution, they have the worst everything in terms of wrecking the environment and yet somehow they're the ones that are running the green movements in the west so we've seen this in south africa a lot of our communities are having to buy solar panels and so on and where do all the solar panels and batteries come from red china so basically we're bolstering the economy of red China with a green charade and we are destroying our own economy and we're living in blackouts. So we live in blackouts. This means everybody in our country needs to have their own generators or solar panels and alternative source of energy. We call it bring your own infrastructure. We can't post letters anymore. We can't post books. One of my ministries was mailing books to people who ordered online with our mission.

We can't mail the books anymore. We've got to go to print-on-demand, e-books, and we can use courier companies, but that's a lot more expensive, of course, than what the post office used to be. But that's upsetting us. Now, imagine if you're a restaurant owner. You've got food ready, and then a power failure comes in. And so the food's spoiled. You've lost the customer.

You've lost the money. You've lost the food. So every restaurant now needs its own generator as well, and then you've got to buy the fuel for the generator. And you've got to have all kinds of backups, or you can't operate. How can you operate any business in a competitive society unless you bring in infrastructure? Because provision of reliable electricity is the most basic thing needed in the economy.

Yes, yes. And we're seeing that now in America. The people who, of course, they have massive power requirements. So the people who are doing artificial intelligence, and that's a whole other category. But the people who are doing that because it's so power hungry, they understand that the power grid here in America is being sabotaged. So they're starting their own line of power plants to serve themselves. They're going to provide their own power. That's exactly what you're seeing at a smaller level.

And, of course, the people who are in on the plan see this coming from a long ways off. And so they're talking about nuclear power plants for their AI computer centers that are there. Let's talk a little bit about your work as a missionary, what is happening in Africa, mainly after you get out of South Africa and, I guess, Zimbabwe, where the Marxists are. The rest of Africa is really kind of under the thumb of islam isn't it all right well islam controls one-third of africa to north about 40 percent of population of africa are in muslim majority countries and the top seven countries in africa are arabic speaking and islamic majority egypt algeria all those countries libya and so on mali marit Mauritania, these are Muslim countries, Somalia, 99% Muslim and so on.

Central Africa's got quite a lot of communist activity, worst in Zimbabwe, but we've got other communist hellholes as well. And that's what started our mission. When I was in the South of Konami, I had a Bible study group that met every night for Bible study and prayer, and we had all-night prayer meetings and prayed our way through Operation Warden. We saw the tremendous threat to us of communism and terrorism. And so the vision came to me very clearly, the communists are coming to us with hate and with bombs.

Have we ever gone to them with the gospel of Christ, with Bibles, and with the love of Christ? And surely the best form of defense is attack. And the enemy is coming to plant bombs in our roads and to kill our people. Surely we should be going to undermine them with the gospel and with evangelism and turn many of their people into Bible-believing evangelical Christians. And so Frontline Fellowship was born out of that vision. And for the last 42 years, I've been leading missions all over Africa,

especially into communist countries and later Muslim countries, to evangelize. And we took a high priority to evangelizing the anti-communist guerrillas, like UNITA, Freedom Fighters of Jonas Vimby in Angola, and you left many years ago, 1975, but you left behind the Montagnards, well-trained by the Green Berets, who continue to resist the communists in Vietnam and Cambodia for decades to come. And so I see, if you think of the goal of special forces, you work behind enemy lines, and then you not only work behind enemy lines, but you leave behind special forces who will continue to fight the enemy, many of whom are ex-communists themselves so i took a high priority to training unita freedom fighters and renomero anti-communist guerrillas in the gospel training chaplains and leaving them with chaplains handbooks and bibles and evangelism jesus film

outreaches and so on and these people continue to stay and to fight against communists when we come home. And so we've got anti-communist resistance movements strengthened by the gospel all over Africa. In Sudan, I found the SPLA, the Sudanese People's Liberation Army, with a Marxist background. And we turned the whole revolutionary movement of the Sudanese People's Liberation Army into a Christian movement. They got rid of the commissars, the brought in chaplains. We just read Bibles, we did evangelism, and right up to the top people, their leaders, we convinced them that the best thing was to make peace with God, to make peace for the Christian population of the nation, and to stop fighting God, and rather to submit to God, and that'll be the best way to get freedom for

the country. And it was so successful that South Sudan is now a free and independent country. It seceded successfully from Arabic-Islamic Sudan, seceded from the Sharia law. Ninth of July 2011, South Sudan became the youngest country in the world. And that's just one of our success stories. Mozambique, which was a communist country where we had to smuggle in Bibles in 1982 when I started our work, today it's open for the gospel. It's easy to start a Christian school, church, very little red tape, and the government's even given back hundreds of churches that they'd confiscated and closed back to the church and schools. And so we've seen tremendous success. Angola, which used to be a communist country,

banned the Bible, burned churches. Today, wide open for the gospel. So our mission's seen, and of course, the greatest success of all, you could say, is Eastern Europe, which had once been communist satellites of the Soviet Union. We smuggled in Bibles. We did radio broadcast.

We did leadership training, underground leadership training courses like the School of the Prophets, which grew into being the biggest Christian university in Europe, Emmanuel University in Romania now. And that started as an illegal night school during the communist persecution. And these are just some of the examples of answers to prayer and the power of the gospel to transform lives. So right now we've got a whole program called The Gospel for Guerrillas, Tracts for Terrorists, you know, transform terrorists into evangelists. Think of the persecuted church Saul became the apostle missionary of the church Paul. And so God can take enemies and turn them into his own evangelists. And there's nothing like the zeal

of a convert. And I was brought up in a secular family. From the day I was converted, I've learned I've been called to missions. But to evangelize terrorists, and I've gone and I've preached to terrorists, I've been their basis. I've evangelized Muslims who were terrorists. I've evangelized communists who were terrorists. And I've seen some of them won over where now they are evangelists. And instead of whipping up more wars and sending

in the Marines, I think we should be sending in the missionaries. Instead of bombing the people, I think we should bombard them with Bibles and with prayer. And I believe there's no political solution to Christ in the Middle East. I believe the only solution is spiritual. We need to get into the Middle East and evangelize them. So amongst the examples you can find, there's a book out called Son of Hamas, where the son of the founder of Hamas is actually speaking out against Hamas. And if you've seen the books of Mark Gabriel, Mark Gabriel was an Egyptian Arab Muslim who was a son of an imam, who was teaching as a professor in Cairo University. He was training the people in Islam, Islamic history and the Quran. And through the witness, the faithful witness of a Coptic Christian pharmacist, he came to Christ.

And he was arrested. He was tortured by the police in Egypt for being a convert, an apostate from Islam, in other words. He fled overland all the way to South Africa, got more training in South Africa. I think he now lives in Canada. And Mark Gabriel has written books comparing Muhammad with Jesus, comparing Christianity with Islam, and helping people to understand the mind of Islamic terrorists. Now, there's an example of how it's better to transform a person from being a terrorist or somebody who supports terrorism

or is the ideology behind it to being an evangelist. In Rhodesia, where I grew up, there's a man, Nabezinghi Muzza, who's now past the Nabezinghi Muzza. He was a Zoghbi terrorist, Zimbabwe African People's Union, Soviet-backed Soviet training, and he was sent to assassinate an evangelist in Harare Township outside Salisbury during the war. And he never gave the order because he got so entranced in what the evangelist was saying i was told when you preach you should preach like your life depended on it like you were dying man like this would be the

last time you preach or the last time you hear us will hear you well that evangelist saved his life by preaching so well that uh musa didn't the order for attack. And his men came to him afterwards confused, and he said, go home, I'll speak to you later. And he went to the evangelist, gave his life to the Lord, and he went into theological training. He became a pastor. I was having supper with him one time, and we were in a buffet at a hotel, and I said, you know, you've passed the meat,

don't you want to get any meat? And he said, no, it reminds me too much of when I used to eat people. I mean, I was having supper with a cannibal. But, you know, now he's an abstinent cannibal. And quite an extraordinary experience. I know so many people like this. Yeah, God can change anybody. I love what you're saying, because I keep saying to people, you know,

we're not going to have reform in this country unless we get right with God. And that really is the path. You want to have asymmetric warfare? And the church is called not to be on defense but to be on offense. I love that. Now, let me ask you. You said you met with a group of terrorists. How do you get into that group of terrorists?

I know there was somebody that introduced you and brought you in. How did you get into this group of terrorists? I mean, was there somebody that introduced you and brought you in? How did you get into this group to evangelize it? Well, let me give you my first example. Back in 1982, I bought my motorbikes and left South Konami, off-road motorbike, loaded up with World Mystery Press gospel booklets, got the Jesus form, and I rode into Maputo, and I stood in the street corner saying, hello, hello, hello. And after a while, somebody said, hello, back, and I turned and I said, Maputo and I stood in the street corner saying hello hello hello and after a while somebody said hello back and I turned I said are you a Christian he said hallelujah and I

said praise the lord and he said hallelujah and we stood there so excited and he said do you have a place to stay you must stay in my home tonight well we had no plan this is our accommodation do you have a translator I speak ronga tonga t, Tsua, and Chang'an Portuguese fluently. You've got the job. And the next day, he gathered together a whole lot of underground church people, and we talked about hundreds of people in a burned-out, bombed-out church. Commerce, slogans on the walls, bullet holes in the walls, blood on the floor, place being stripped, and just a few wires hanging out of the walls where there used to be plugs.

And I had an evangelistic rally with them there, 14-hour service, just carried on on the people. It just so excited you, the first visit we've had since the revolution. And then I'd have the Jesus fall. Now, interestingly, just that first time, to show you how bizarre everything was, I told them I brought the Jesus fall, and people got so excited about that. And then I said, do you know where i can borrow a projector and it all got deflated like is he out of his mind he comes to mozambique he doesn't have a projector how's he going to show the full

well afterwards a man came up to you and said i work at the british embassy they've got a projector come to the corner of vladimir lennon and marcy tongue street tomorrow and i'll introduce you to yeah seriously to the consulate. And so I went to the consulate, explained, you know, I'm a British citizen because my father fought all six years of the Second World War in the Royal Artillery and they told me I have a British passport, even though I've never lived in Britain. So I showed them my British passport and said, may I borrow your 16mm projector?

I'm a British missionary working in Mozambique. I brought a film, but I don't have a projector. I couldn't afford a projector back then, actually. I'd just come out the army, put all my money into getting the film and getting the Bibles we needed, so I couldn't afford a projector. So talk about a faith mission. And the

consular said, you're welcome to borrow my projector, but he said, I need to warn you, there's power failures most of the time. We only get electricity about once a week. Wow. I said, well, we'll have to pray about that. So I set up in the church, and I've got to take the plug off with a Phillips screwdriver and then twist the wires together, trying not to electrocute myself, which isn't difficult because there's no power, and then pray for the lights to come on.

Well, that night that first night believe it or not the power came on so i could show the jesus and just as we're in the crucifixion scene the power goes off i thought that's not bad they've got most of the film i preached and as i was preaching on the cross of christ the lights come back on so i'm able to continue we finished the resurrection scene great commission and then the film was over. I could preach no more. And while I'm preaching in the pitch dark, I see soldiers in camouflage coming to the front, carrying the AK-47s, and I thought, I'm about to get arrested. No, they knelt on the floor. They put their AK-47s on the ground. They knelt down and they said, we want to give our lives to

Christ. And I was able to lead Communists to Christ on my first mission to Mozambique. I've baptized communists. I've had Bible studies. Now, some of them will invite you to come to their next place. Or I'd have, can you show the film at our camp? I'd go to a camp and I'd crank up the generator. And when we were a bit more organized later, we actually brought our own generators along.

And we could show the Jesusesus film in their communist camps i've shown the jesus film in camps of communists in zimbabwe mozambique angola absolutely magnificent even to arabs in sudan um i was driving in harare in the embassy lane and i saw an embassy to the palestinian liberation organization so i quickly stopped and turned into the embassy and asked to speak to the head of the PLO there in Harare. So this is like a terrorist training camp in an embassy, or it used to be an embassy, and now it's an embassy for the PLO terrorists in Harare.

And, you know, I got in there and I started to, I said I'm a theological student, which at that stage I was, and I'm interested in learning about Islam, which is also true, because I've specialized in Islam. And so we sat down, and they started to explain Islam, and they were saying, but Islam isn't the only motivation to PLO. The PLO has Christians as well. And anyway, I found it hard to believe, but in talking to them, and they were saying, you know, we believe in full religious freedom. I said, I'm so glad to hear that. I've got the Jesus form. Can I show it to them, and they were saying, you know, we believe in full religious freedom. I said, I'm so glad to hear that. I've got the Jesus film.

Can I show it to you all? And this chap looks a bit like, what did I say wrong? And we went out there and we showed the film, and you could see some of the Muslims were quite agitated. But, you know, they just proclaimed their religious freedom. And so, okay, I didn't get a second chance, but I did get away with it that time. And things like this. There's a time I was preaching to a group of, I call them gooks, the Zimbabwe National Army on an observation post overlooking Mutari

in the eastern highlands of Zimbabwe. And on the way out, we were intercepted. Somebody had complained that I was preaching. And on the way down, the CIO, Central Intelligence Organization, they're like the KGB of Zimbabwe, they blocked the road, they caught us, ambushed us, and I was taken off to interrogation. And when I say interrogation, I mean took them to a room that looked like a hardware store, table full of all kinds of pliers and other tools,

and sat in an armchair which had leather straps for the arms and for the feet, and there's a battery in the corner with crocodile clips and wires so you know anywhere you're going to be charged is with electricity and they're not depending on Zimbabwe electricity they've got their own battery there and I mean it's literally shocking so I'm sitting down there and um they said what are you teaching I'm in so I start to relate the gospel no, stop. Why have you come to Zimbabwe? So I related my testimony. And I tell you, these men start to shuffle,

scratch the back of their heads, shuffle their feet and look at their fingernails and getting awkward. And the one man said, my mother's very religious. Another one said, my sister's religious. And before you knew it, the whole atmosphere changed. I'm talking about these bloodthirsty, callous torturers, the COO. They came under conviction of sin. Wow.

And, you know, in a time like that, you really feel in unction from on high to preach like you've never preached before, because your life literally, and your fingernails, depends on it. So I proclaimed the gospel to him, and literally, within the hour, I was driving out to the driveway, giving back my vehicle and keys, and these men are standing with their Bibles and Shauna under their arms, waving goodbye. And that actually happened. And in fact, I've written a whole book on this sort of thing,

Frontline Behind Me, Lines for Christ, on our 42 years of evangelism. These are just some of the evangelisms amongst terrorists, over 440 pictures, I've got testimony of opportunities to preach to communists, terrorists, revolutionaries, militants, radicals, rioters. We've had times when people have been shaking boxes, matches in our faces, saying I'm going to necklace you, we're going to burn you alive, and things like this. But we have persevered, and God's given grace, wisdom, strength. I'm going to necklace you. We're going to burn you alive," and things like this. But we have persevered, and God's given grace, wisdom, strength. I'm convinced

missionaries can do far more for the security of our nations by evangelizing enemies than we can by going there, bombing them, and radicalizing more people and winning them more recruits. Oh, I absolutely agree. I love what you're doing, and what it reminds me of is that, certainly in your life, you are not ashamed of the gospel of Christ. I think that is the biggest problem with the American church. People have been so browbeat about all this. Oh, we've got to be nice to everybody. We have to meet them where they are and all the rest of this stuff.

No, you just need to tell the truth. And you need to say it not in a mean way necessarily, but you just simply declare the truth. And that is the key thing. And that's what Americans are afraid to do to the man. They don't, they've been shamed into silence. We've been shamed into the closet. While every kind of perversity is parading in the street here in the middle of Pride Month, we are shamed to say anything about that.

And not necessarily in a condemning way but you know to put out the gospel of christ and sometimes call sin what it is and that's what what you have done is to give people the gospel to give them a hope in an area where they have no hope you know for all these guys who are terrorists all these guys who are torturing people i mean it's just uh uh for them uh how are they going to know that tomorrow they won't be the ones that are sitting in the chair and having their fingernails pulled out? In fact, I point this out. I've designed a whole track specifically for terrorists, pointing out that every revolution is cannibalistic. They end up killing their own.

And just think of who is the hero of the revolution in Soviet Union? Leon Trotsky. And he literally got axed by order of strong. He got an ice pick in the head. He's buried in Mexico City. And this is what happens, you know, like an animal farm snowball, the hero of the revolution gets killed by the dogs who sit on him by Napoleon. And this is the way it goes.

In Zimbabwe, the leader of the revolution, Josiah Tongaroa, the head of the Zimbabwe African Union Liberation Army. He gets murdered on Christmas Eve in Zimbabwe and opens the door to Mugabe becoming the first leader of Zimbabwe. And in South Africa, the leader of the Communist Party was Chris Haney, who gets murdered just the year before to enable not just Mandela to become president, because Chris Haney was very charismatic, a good speaker. I've debated him in public too. But to allow Thabo Mbeki and Jacob Zuma to become the first successors to Mandela.

Chris Haney would have been a shoo-in, and he is so liked, so charismatic, and he was the most powerful man, being the head of the Communist Party, head of the Umkhontari Sizri, which is the armed wing man being the head of the communist party head of the uh which is the armed wing the terrorist wing of the anc and so his assassination which many in the anc including william mandela say was an inside job done by the anc to get rid of him because he's too popular eduardo mandalani was the founder of the Felima Communist Party in Mozambique. The main street in Mapuche is named the Eduardo Manolani Avenue, Boulevard Eduardo Manolani. Well, he was murdered so that Samora Michelle could take his place. And so it carries on.

Every revolution, you can see the revolutions are cannibalistic. Do you know that Mao Zedong in 1968, 1966 began the Cultural Revolution by arresting the president of Red China and the head of the army. They were Troika. He was the chairman. The president and the head of the army of Red China were accused of treason. I mean, how's that even possible? And Mao Zedong seizes power and eliminates millions of people. And this is typical of communists. The second phase of the revolution, they always end up killing the revolutionaries like Stalin's show trials. He killed off the veterans of the Baltic Revolution. You see, people who do a revolution cannot be trusted because when you fail to fulfill your promises, they know how to overthrow a government.

They're going to overthrow you so the first people to get in the neck literally is the vanguard of the revolution the vanguard of the revolution gets slaughtered in the second phase of the revolution so i share these facts with the comments and when they realize that they start to understand you know like moist chombe of congo as well you know he gets wiped out. The communists had a university training terrorist in Moscow called the Patrice Lumumba University. Patrice Lumumba was the leader of the communist revolution and he was murdered by his own

in the Congo. And this is absolutely typical. When the people realise, you realise they're just using you like a pawn and you're going to be sacrificed for the good of the revolution soon. You start to get them realizing, you know, it's true, and when they understand the history and understand where this is going, many of these people are willing to turn.

And many ex-communists have ended up being the best anti-communists, and they've been the best fighters in Renamo, the anti-communist resistance in Mozambique, or the UNITA anti-communist resistance in Angola. And so it is. When people understand how communists work they get to realize they're going to shoot me in the back of the neck as well yes yeah i've got to get out now and be part of the resistance because if i stay my days are numbered and so there are ways to to persuade the comments and when they get to understand um that you understand history, that also helps.

I've had this before. When I was arrested in Mozambique in 1989, I was thrown in prison there, and quite an experience. There was a Machava security prison in Maputo, and I wake up to a horrible smell, and I feel something on my face, and I'm lying on a concrete floor and there's a rat just about to start nibbling my nose in a smelt like he's come from the sewers, which he had I'm sure and there was a hole under the door that rats could get in and out

and so right there I knew what I was in well later that day they came for me for interrogation, I'm dragged, they never let you walk, they dragged me down the hallway, a guard on each side, into, again, another one of these interrogation rooms. It looked like a hardware store. And the man behind the table said, I am the devil.

And I said, you're not the devil. And he said, oh, I'm the devil. I'm not only a Marxist and a Leninist. I'm a Stalinist. I was trained in Czechoslovakia. So I respond, well, I'm the devil. I'm not only a Marxist and a Leninist. I'm a Stalinist. I was trained in Czechoslovakia. So I respond, well, I'm a Christian. And he spat out, I hate Christians. But I mean, he spat it out with such venom.

And how do you respond to that? Well, he then started to berate me for the evils of communism, of evils of Christianity. And then he said, you know, Jesus Christ was the first communist. Jesus Christ taught from all according to his ability to each according to his need. So are you sure that Jesus Christ, that sounds like Karl Marx, went about to get this?

And then he carried on with, no, the first Christians were the first communists. In fact, anyone who refused to share their property was killed. And, you know, we are just enforcing what you read in the Book of Acts, he says. So I said, well, if you read the Book of Acts, you see a nice fire. We're not killed by the apostles. They were struck dead by God himself. No human hand touched them because they lied to the Holy Spirit.

And it was not that they weren't willing to share their property. It was that they lied and that they'd not lied just to man. They'd lied to God, to the Holy Spirit. And anyway, I then went on and said, if Jesus Christ was the first communist, and if the early church practiced communism, why do you ban Bibles? Why is it that I've got to smuggle Bibles in, and why do Bibles get burned? If this was true, you'd want to promote Bibles. And the man started to give me a lecture on how evil capitalism was, and he gave a tirade against Margaret Thatcher, who was Prime Minister in Britain at that stage.

So I then gave a lecture about the French Revolution and explaining how secular humanism, Roche and Voltaire, how they brought about a collapse of good standards for the poor and how the poor always benefit from Christianity and how the poor get poorer and are more oppressed under communism. And then the man gave me a lecture on dialectic materialism. And so I gave him, I thought, I can swap lectures all day. I love history.

Much better than getting your fingernails ripped out and being electrocuted. I gave him a lecture on the Reformation. We went backwards and forwards about these things. And at the end he declared the interview over. It's been six hours looking at the clock on the wall. Wow. It just shows if you know your history, you can engage communists. Communists love arguing politics and history and economics. When you know that, it's much better. You'll keep your fingernails, you'll keep your… I'm much happier to debate the

communists, and they're normally happy to debate. But if you don't have anything intelligent to say, they'll start torturing you. I mean, seriously, that's what happens. Darrell Bock Wow. Well, what about when you go to Islam? How does it… you described your situation with the communists and how they like to debate history and politics and maybe even religion. What about Islam when you've had encounters there? Well, Islam loves discussing religion. So, again, you've got to know the Quran. And I learned the Quran not only from Christians who worked amongst Muslims. I went into the mosques and I asked the Muslims to train me. I went to Islamic propagations and had them explain the Quran. And the first day,

I didn't even ask any questions except to clarify things. I'd learnt a Muslim's perspective in Islam, which is different from a Christian like me explaining Islam to you. So that was very helpful. I first made sure I understood Islam pretty well. Then I went to the very experienced man, Herat Nils, on Door-to-door evangelism in Muslim areas. He taught me how to reach Muslims well. And so what I've done is sometimes gone into mosques and asked the imam if we could have a debate on Islam and Christianity, or comparing Jesus and Muhammad, or the Quran and the Bible, or how can we know that our sins are forgiven? How are your sins forgiven in Islam?

How can you be right to God? How can you know you're going to paradise? And we discuss things like this. Sometimes we want to discuss, was Jesus crucified? Did Jesus rise from the dead? Those are good debating subjects. So debates and discussions always help. Meeting people in homes, they're willing to let you in normally.

I can go to the Malay quarter where it's 110 Muslim and mosques all over the place and you come and knock on the door, I'd like to talk to you about, I'm a Christian, I'd like to talk to you about Islam and Christianity, would you be interested in discussion? They often invite you in, give you tea, coffee, sit down and have a discussion. We've even organised Bible studies in mosques where we come and we say, okay, what does the Quran teach about this subject? And they'll explain what the Quran teaches on that subject.

And then we'll explain what the Bible says about that subject. Then they'll explain what the Quran says about another subject. And so you've got basically it's an objective, constructive discussion. This is to understand one another. You tell me what the Quran teaches on sin, man, God, heaven, hell, salvation, so on. I'll tell you what the Bible does. And interesting discussions come out of it. And we've had people coming to us saying, you know, I'm from Saudi Arabia. This is illegal in Saudi Arabia. And they're so excited when you give them a Bible and they're like, can I have this? You know, this is illegal in my country.

And they've got all the excitement of someone who's been given something that's suppressed and illegal. And I find the more from a hardcore Muslim country they come, the more open they are to the gospel, when in another country, obviously in their own country, they wouldn't be able to do that. And so we have debates, we have discussions, and we meet people in their homes. And as long as you can talk intelligently, and obviously understand Islam, we can get quite far. And I've got friends who used to be Muslims who've been converted to Christ, and it's wonderful. And people from Pakistan, people from Iraq, people from Syria, people from Saudi Arabia and Egypt. We've got a whole Bible college going up in northern Africa in an Arabic-speaking North African country, which is part of our William Carey Bible Institute. And we've got

13 students who came from a Muslim background, what we call a Muslim background believer, or MBB. And it's just wonderful. We had a while ago when we had six graduates finish the three-year program, and we had a graduation service. It was totally illegal, underground, and secret. But we were able to, through web platforms, able to have me still give a presentation at the graduation service remotely. And these people came from unreached people where it's totally illegal. And this was all done in a country where this would be completely illegal muslims are coming to christ and it's exciting i guess that's the thing that surprises me is that you would be able because uh is it different um

different parts of islam because we look at it as monolithic but of course you got the shia and you got the um hobbyist and the Sunnis and all the rest of the stuff. There's a lot of different flavors of that. Is that why? And some of these, now you mentioned that you're still having to do some things underground, but I guess in some of these areas,

maybe that's why the Imam would be open to debate. Or is it just because they are somebody that's from another country and they're not being watched or. It's all of those things. And so what you find is a Muslim imam wants to win a Christian to Islam. And so this would be a great status symbol if he could persuade me to become Muslim. Now, he's convinced Islam is right. I know that Christians are.

But the fact that willing to, and we say, okay, let's make this even. You explain what the Quran says, I'll explain what the Bible says. Now, he's convinced he's going to win you over. So his goal is to evangelize me for Islam, Dawah. And my goal is to share the gospel with him. And we know that actually, ultimately, it's not a decision. This is something the Lord does. And there's some good tools.

One of them is More Than Dreams. And More Than Dreams has five Muslim conversions, true stories, done in a recreated form method interested in a discussion and hopefully winning you to Islam that's why I often portray myself as I'm a theological student and I'm a student of Islam I'm interested in learning about Islam would you help answer my questions and of course many of my questions are going to cause doubt in their mind too like how do you prepare your heart for prayer and they happily tell you how they wash their hands and their ears and their nose and they clean their feet and so on and yes but how do you clean your heart i find very hard to prepare my how do you wash your mind and they get confused and you you ask uh questions such as um what can you tell me to convince me that the Quran is the word of God?

And it's because Muhammad said it is. And how do I know that Muhammad is a true prophet of God? Well, because the Quran says he is. Well, isn't that the circular reason? I mean, how can I know the Quran is the word of God? And are there any prophecies in the Quran about events far ahead? Tell them about some of the prophecies in the Bible. And then I've spoken to some of the top Muslim evangelists in the world,

or debaters like Ahmad Didach, who was, he's written scores of books, printed millions of copies. He's the founder of the Islamic Propagation Center National. So Ahmad Didach, debating him, and he's filming this at the same time. What prophecies are in the Quran? Well, Muhammad prophesied that the Roman Empire would fall, but the Roman Empire fell before Muhammad was born. That's called history.

That's not prophecy. And what miracles did Muhammad do? Well, let me go back to the first question. How do I know that Muhammad is a prophet of God? Dead serious, this is his answer. He had a gap between his front teeth, and he had a mole. And this apparently, I think the mole was on his back, actually. So, you know, some dermatological problem some dental problem that

proves he's a prophet seriously that's what he gave was there any miracles that muhammad did when he prophecies he gave well in fact there was according to amadida i mean remember he's the top islamic author he's the founder of the zealot propagation center national when muhammad was fleeing the soldiers of mecca he hid in a cave and a spider spun a web over the cave mouth and when the soldiers came past they said well he can't be in there and they went on they said that's it

a spider's web I mean that's the strongest you've got and I mean that's the answer he gave well of course I could say a lot more about how Jesus from the Quran the Quran acknowledges Jesus was born a virgin, he is holy, sinless, perfect. He is the word of God, he is the Messiah. The Quran says this,

like a quote chapter and verse from the Shores about that. And Jesus has ascended into heaven, he's coming again to judge the living and the dead. What other prophet can he say this of? And you know, just comparing Jesus with any other prophet already convinces. So we lay some foundations like this and discussions. And, you know, I make it sound easy, but of course it's hard because there's interruptions and they always want to say what they want to say before they listen to you. So you've got to listen to them first, ask questions. But I find asking probing questions do help. How can you know for sure that you're going to paradise well

of course there's only one way a muslim can know for sure that he's going to paradise if he dies in jihad killing the infidel but they can't say that to you i mean muhammad himself said he didn't know what allah would do with him on day of judgment so you asked him how can you know for sure that you'll enter paradise and um uh i don't know how can allah forgive your sins and you know for sure that you'll enter paradise? And I don't know. How can Allah forgive your sins? And you know the answer I got from Ahmadinejad? Three times he raised his shoulders and his arms, hands up straight. And of course, as you mentioned, they'll say that Jesus was a virgin birth,

the prophet of God, a messiah, and all the rest is coming back. And yet they deny the cross, right? And so they deny the payment for sin. So how do they respond with that issue? Were their arms up? Well, they deny the crucifixion of Christ based on an interpretation of one surah. There's one verse that says that Nabi Isa was not crucified, although it was made to appear so to them.

Now that's just one surah written by somebody who was not an eyewitness hundreds of years later. And yet there's so many surahs in the Quran that authenticate that the Bible is the word of God, and that you mustn't dispute with the people of the Book, and that the words of Allah cannot be lost or changed or corrupted, that Allah's words endure forever. So on this basis I'm able to make a strong case that the Quran claims to be built on the Bible.

The Quran claims to be an authentication and a confirmation of the Bible. And Muhammad claims to be the last prophet, and he's confirming what all the other prophets said, including Mabee Esa, the prophet Jesus. So they're on the end of a branch, and they can't saw off the branch on the inside. The Bible does not depend on the Quran, but the Quran does depend on the Bible.

We need to build on that. Because a Muslim cannot deny Jesus. He is a prophet of Islam. They must respect him. In fact, when they say Nabi Isa, they must add, Peace be upon him, like they do about Muhammad. They might forget, but we can remind them. Because he is illustrious in this world and in the hereafter. And he is a sign for the nations, for all nations. Ahmadiyad would like to say well jesus was a prophet to the jews but muhammad is a prophet to all nations but the quran states that jesus is a sign to all the nations and so they cannot actually deny jesus even just knowing the

quran is enough to make them see that jesus or nabi isa as they call him, the prophet Jesus, is not to be compared with any other, and he is perfect. Now, even using the Quran, I can lead them to points of seeing Jesus is more important than Muhammad. Do you know that Muhammad is mentioned four times in the Quran? Only four times. Jesus, by the name of Nabi Isa, is mentioned over 80 times in the Quran. In fact, Mary is mentioned vastly more times than Muhammad as well. And so already you can see from the Quran itself the importance of Jesus

and his mother and that Muhammad is not a major emphasis of the Quran. Now you get more on Muhammad, of course, in the Hadith, but the Hadith is not as authenticated as the Quran. The Quran is Allah's words to us according to them. And the Hadith is the teachings and the actions of Muhammad mentioned by his followers. So the Hadith is secondary to the Quran. And we've gotten quite far with that. So I thought being white and Western, and it's kind of obvious, my complexion gives me away,

that this would be a stumbling block to me evangelizing. But actually it's not. In many ways it creates interest. And I've found, even with the black people and with the Arab people, I'm a bit of an anomaly, a bit of a status symbol. I've got this foreigner, this guest, and they like to invite me in. And one thing we find that always works with Muslims, if you want to get an opening, is, can I pray for you? Is there anything that you need prayer for? And, you know, a person who said they know prayers to Muhammad haven't healed anyone, but many of them have great faith that Nabi Isa, Prophet Jesus, he can heal.

I mean, there's no evidence anywhere that Muhammad healed anyone, but Jesus healed many people, and they know that even from the Quran. Now, when we come along and we say, can I pray for you, whether it's in a home or something, Muslims always come up with things that they need prayer for. Now you pray, and when the prayer is answered, you can imagine how this really opens up people's hearts. And people's children have been healed from sickness. People have experienced all kinds of answers to prayer in the name of Jesus. And therefore, that's something… This is something you see in the

frontiers of gospel work. I wouldn't advise this normally, but Mark 16 speaks about when we work for God, He works along with us, and He will confirm the Word with signs following. And so, remember, every promise in the Bible, every commandment in the Bible comes with a promise. And so when the Lord says, I'll be with you always, it's in the context of go into all the world and make disciples of all nations. And the Lord breathed in them and said, receive the Holy Spirit. You will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria and the astral parts of the earth when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. So the power is promised when we are fulfilling the Great Commission. I've seen miraculous healings.

And I was in Nuba Mountains of Sudan when I got stung by a scorpion. It was a little luminous, almost colorless scorpion with massive tail and small clippers. Those are the most deadly. And my left hand was poisoned, stung by the scorpion, and I could feel a poison working up my arm, heading towards my heart. Wow. And there was nothing for it except to call for the elders to pray for me.

So Christians and missionary co-workers gathered around and prayed for me, and I felt the poison going down my arm and out through my fingertips and the local Muslim saw it and they saw the scorpion, you know, he is stung by the scorpion and that's a deadly scorpion, not the dark scorpion with the big clippers and the small tail. This is a light-colored scorpion, almost transparent scorpion with a big tail. They're the deadly ones and they could see what the Bible says, that they'll be stung by scorpions and bit by snakes and one of them will harm them. Well, we don't believe in doing this on a stage.

We're not like those cults where they might play with snakes and things like this. But in the actual course of God's work, and these things happen, the Lord has promised to intervene. And so in ministry, in the frontiers of missions amongst unreached people's groups, I've seen answers to prayer. So, I'm not a signs and wonders person. I believe the Bible is our authority, totally. But miracles happen in pioneer missions. And we've seen it. I've heard that many times. I'm not a signs and miracles person either, but yes, I've heard many, many reports of that, as you said, on the frontline missions. It truly is amazing.

I could go on forever with you, but we're going to split this into two different interviews here. Tell people where they can find out about what you're doing at frontlinemissionssa.org. And is that the best place for them to find you? You've got so many different websites. I think you've got like 10 of them here. We'll put them in the video. The best one is frontlinemissionsa.org. Frontlinemissionsa.org on the back of our book.

Frontlinemissionsa, S-A short for South Africa. It's not missions. It's frontlinemissionsa.org. And you'll find us on Facebook as well, Frontline Fellowship with a badge, the Sword to Word in Africa. You can see the Sword to Word in Africa up above me. That's our mission's badge, the one with shields on the wall. And we've been going 42 years.

You can email me at peter at frontline.org.za, peter at frontline.org.za. That's my personal email. And you'll also see I'm busy on Facebook as well. We've got a bookshop. We provide a lot of our books by email. We've got e-books. We've got prints on demand.

So even if our postal service isn't behaving itself, we've still got ways of getting the materials to people. We send out emails. We send out audiovisuals. On the FrontlineMissionSA.org website, there's audiovisuals, presentations, transforming terrorists into evangelists. We've got

on how to resist Marxist bullying tactics, exposing the whole cancel culture movement, which is nothing but cancel Christianity. That's the whole goal. Cancel culture is communism, and its goal is to cancel Christianity. That's the only thing that makes sense to the whole agenda that's right and of course i've lived through several revolutions so i've worked in 38 countries i've traveled in 42 countries i've worked in 38 countries including

eight wars i've gone through three revolutions i've been imprisoned multiple times uh in communist countries and arrested in muslim country as well And I've got the stories in my book, Frontline Behind Enemy Alliance for Christ. We've got audio visuals on our websites and articles on many of these issues that we're dealing with, videos that people can see. I hope to produce Sudan, the Hidden Holocaust and Terrorism and Persecution films, which expose a lot of what is going on in the field. And you can see videos on our website that even shows some of the imprisonments and some of the uh announcements of on the news broadcast

about our imprisonments and testimonies of some of the combat uh that we're involved in at first so that's all available on the frontline mission sa.org website i'd love to hear from some of the listeners and viewers. Yes. And so you're buying... We always need workers. I'm sorry, what? We always need workers. We need volunteers. And if people are interested in short-term ministry

or long-term ministry and would like to come and volunteer their time, we have training programs here, like the Great Commission course, enable people to learn Muslim evangelism firsthand in a peaceful area like Cape Town, where it's legal, before we attempt to send anyone out.

But we're in a port city that's cosmopolitan, and people can practice evangelism here. So we use Cape Town as a training base for the Great Commission course, have the people hiking up and down Table Mountain and getting fit, night hikes, Bible smuggling drills in the forest at night. We've got hunter teams and we've got smuggling teams. If people are interested in ministering in restricted access areas, we've got the experience of 42 years, and we'd love to train more people, because I believe this is the way we will fulfill

the Great Commission, and we will defeat the enemies, is by getting into these areas and winning these people to Christ. And many are wide open and hungry and disillusioned. And the gospel is powerful. In fact, as I heard in Sudan, a man said after he'd got bombed, the Bibles of the Christians are more powerful than the bombs of the Muslims. And it's true. Yes, that's amazing. Now, let me just repeat one more thing. Your book that's about your life experience is there,

Frontlines Behind Enemy enemy lines for Christ? Behind enemy lines for Christ. Yeah, this is also printed on the mind in an e-book. Okay, good. That picture on the front is me in the Nuba Mountains, but you've got 440 pictures, and it's a very well illustrated book with thoughts of what's going on in the field. So, you know, if people are interested, this will give them an insight into what goes on in these areas. Well, I'm definitely interested.

I'm definitely interested. I'm going to have to find out. Yes, thank you so much. It is fantastic talking to you again. Frontline Mission SA.org, and that'll be kind of your entry point there. We'll have some of these links in the videos when we put them up as well. So thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Peter Hammond.

I appreciate it. It's been amazing to talk to you. Thank you so much. Dr. Peter Hammond Thank you, David Lott. Appreciate the opportunity. God bless America. Dr. David Lott Thank you. God bless you. The David Knight Show is a critical thinking super spreader. If you've been exposed to logic by listening to The David Knight Show, please do your part and try not to spread it. Financial support

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