The David Knight Show - Tue 11Jun24 Implications of Court Decision That TrumpShots are NOT Vaccines, Therapeutics

Episode Date: June 12, 2024

LA schools lose vaccine mandate case that cost over 1,000 people their jobs.  After winning in district court, the school has been slammed in 9th Circuit courtWhat are the implications of the court ruling that the vaccine is a therapeutic, NOT a vaccine?What, if anything, does it do the infamous 1905 Sullivan case that ruled that vaccines could be mandated?Will the case open up lawsuits against BigPharma fraud?Dr. William Makis, a Canadian physician, breaks down recent research papers talking about cancer treatment using Ivermectin(55:00) "The Chosen One" — the latest Trump worship song by Natasha Owens whose career began with contemporary Christian worship, but too off when she began Trump worship songs.  Why do professing Christians excuse career Trump supporters comparing Trump to Jesus?  Is it idolatry? Derangement? Greed?  (1:05:00) Mandela, the Marxist Terrorist Dr. Peter Hammond, FrontlineMissionSA.org, joins to discuss Mandela's legacy hidden by his personal charm.  The myth of martyrdom, the fundamental attack on fundamental morality, and many other things glossed over by journalists and filmmakers in Western nations as in Clint Eastwood's "Invictus".   As Dr. Hammond experienced firsthand when he challenged Mandela, under the friendly facade there was a ruthless Marxist in the mold of Stalin or Mao.  (2:15:00) Taking the Gospel to Marxist Rebels and Islamic Jihadis Dr. Hammond didn't just take Bibles and the gospel into totalitarian Marxist and Muslim countries, he took it directly to the armed terrorists in those countries.African Christian missionary, Dr. Peter Hammond, FrontlineMissionSA.org, joins to relay his experiences, arrests, imprisonments, being stabbed, shot at, etc and his successes as he saw God move in powerful ways.    Find out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.comIf you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-showOr you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @[e-mail] App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Money is only what YOU hold: Go to DavidKnight.gold for great deals on physical gold/silverFor 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to TrendsJournal.com and enter the code KNIGHTBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-david-knight-show--2653468/support.

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If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge. But MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Happiness. We all know what it feels like, but sometimes it doesn't come easy.

I'm Garvey Bailey, the host of Happy Enough, a new podcast from The Globe and Mail about our pursuit of happiness. We know people want to live more fulfilling and positive lives, but how do we actually do that? Is there a happiness code to crack? From our relationship with technology to whether money can really buy you happiness, we'll hear from both real people and experts to demystify this thing we're all searching for and hopefully find ways to be happy enough. You can find Happy Enough wherever you listen to podcasts. Using free speech to free minds.

You're listening to The David Knight Show. As the clock strikes 13, it's Tuesday, the 11th of June, year of our Lord, 2024. Well, today we're going to begin by looking at some important news that broke over the weekend. Legal news about vaccine mandates. A major win for freedom. We're also going to take a look at the new push for panic, the bird flu, which just continues to roll on. But there's some great news about cancer. There's an excellent report from Dr. Makis.

I'm going to play some of that for you. There's some very good news about cancer treatment with ivermectin. We're also going to take a look at the EU elections. What is happening there? What does it tell us maybe about the coming elections or the way things are turning? Why did they have a massive improvement in conservative nationalist voters? And they'll also take a look at the tranny killer out of Nashville. Part of her diary has now been released and reported. How appropriate for Pride pride month we'll be right back

well i'm back and better as many of you noticed. Maybe yesterday's show was a best of interviews. I had something happened on Sunday. I got very sick and my stomach was a great deal of pain. I could not sleep. I had a rash, all kinds of stuff, but I'm better now. So we're back. But I appreciate all the concern from those of you who said something.

But it was, again, it was a last-minute deal. We roused Travis out of bed. He's in Texas and just had driven through to get to Texas, and he was able to put that through at the last minute, so I really do appreciate him doing that as well. My other son is doing the board today, and over the weekend, we had some big news that broke. This is an organization, Health Freedom Defense Fund. They've got a lot of different lawsuits out about mask mandates, vaccine mandates, and other things like that. They had a major win in California. They had lost at the district court, and when it went to the appeals court, the Ninth Circuit

Court of Appeals, of all places, they won and turned it back. And what is important about this is that the ninth circuit, uh, greatly restricted the application of the Jacobson decision. It goes back to 1905. We had a Jacobson versus Massachusetts where you had a ruling that Massachusetts could make, um, Jacobson get a smallpox vaccine. And so that has been something that has been hanging over the heads of all of us who think that, who believe in my body,

my choice. And of course, interestingly enough, that slogan of the abortion industry did not apply to vaccines. Of course, when it really is your body, when it's not some body else, of course, when it really is your body, when it's not somebody else.

They show their hypocrisy. They don't really care about you making your health decisions. They just want to kill babies. But those of us who understand where the lines are drawn, who say that, well, no, you're not going to be able to kill babies, but you're also not going to be able to force me to take a vaccine. I think it was a major victory for that. We've had people like Alan Dershowitz argued from the very beginning, well, this is not a vaccine mandate. You know, we're just twisting

people's arms and coercing them and we're making them do this stuff or over penalty of losing their employment, their career, things like that. You know, nice guy, isn't he? Great Trump supporter. And he said, well, you know, we're just twisting arms with this stuff. But he goes, I would advocate having the police come to your house, drag you out of the house, and force inject that needle into your arm. He said, I would argue that before the Supreme Court, and I would win. Well, maybe you wouldn't. And that's the good news about this court decision.

Just like the LA Department of Health,A. United School District had a pattern of withdrawing and then reinstating its vaccine policies. According to the court, this pattern was enough to keep the case alive. This is a report from Julie Hamill. The record supported a strong inference that LAUSD, the L night school district, waited to see how the oral argument in this court proceeded before determining whether to maintain the policy or to go forward with a pre-prepared repeal option. In other words, and they even had their lawyer make the remark to the plaintiff's lawyer, well, what are you going to do if we remove that mandate?

We got you there. In other words, we're going to make this a moot case. We're going to manipulate our rules back and forth to win in court. And the court figured that out. Didn't like that. No, this is not a moot case. You're not going to get away with that scam. And they do that all the time of

course so the school district express expressly reserve the option to again consider imposing vaccine mandate and accordingly the school district has not carried its heavy burden to show there is no reasonable possibility that it will ever again revert to imposing a similar policy. That's the court. And then they said, here's the real important part. The district court, says the Ninth Circuit, misapplied the Supreme Court's decision in Jacobson versus Massachusetts. Jacobson held that the mandatory vaccines were rationally related to preventing the spread of smallpox. Here, however, plaintiffs allege that the vaccine does not effectively prevent spread, but only mitigates symptoms for the recipient. Therefore, it is akin to a medical treatment and not a traditional vaccine.

That is big. It's huge, right? As the guy who bragged about creating it said, so that's a bigly deal. Because if it is more of a medical treatment than a traditional vaccine, that finding could be used to attack its immunity, its legal immunity. Of course, it doesn't to attack its immunity, its legal immunity.

Of course, it doesn't provide any medical immunity, but it could be used to attack its legal immunity for the harm that it has done to people. Deaths, disability, that type of thing. And of course, it is now widely acknowledged by everyone, even the Trump shot advocates, it is now acknowledged by everyone that it did nothing to prevent the spread. He ain't going to stop you from getting it, but, uh, you know, it's gonna, you'll be better off. Yeah. Even if you die, you're going to be better off. Even if they kill you with a ventilator or some remdesivir,

you'll be better off having had their vaccine. Of course, they will be better off in terms of money. And that's another fallout of this. Goldman Sachs and its analysis of this stuff. And they always look at this from a follow-the-money perspective. Years ago, they were talking about Gilead Pharmaceuticals, the same people who produce remdesivir. And it was in 2018, the spring of 2018.

Goldman Sachs did analysis. It was widely reported in the mainstream media saying that Gilead had cured one strain of hepatitis. They said they made $12 billion or something like that the first year, but then it rapidly dropped off second year, third year, hardly anything. Said we don't want to cure disease. That's not our business model.

We don't want to cure disease. We want to treat it so we can continue to sell them this stuff. We want to have a chronic condition that never goes away so we can continue to sell this stuff. That is our business model. And Goldman Sachs lectured both Gilead and the pharmaceutical industry. Don't do that. That's not what we want to do.

We don't want to cure diseases. And so Goldman Sachs looking at the dollars and cents implications of this, never concerned about Liberty, certainly not concerned about people's lives. Looks at it and says, well, this is a real downside for the vaccine industry. I think that's one of the most encouraging things out of this. So the plaintiffs plausibly alleged that the COVID-19 vaccine does not effectively prevent the spread of COVID-19. Thus, Jacobson does not apply, said the court.

The Ninth Circuit Court says, the writer here, Julie Hamill, she said, it's interesting, isn't it, that the Ninth Circuit Court's decision would have been banned by Twitter, by Meta, by all the mainstream media outlets? Happiness. We all know what it feels like, but sometimes it doesn't come easy. I'm Garvey Bailey, the host of Happy Enough, a new podcast from The Globe and Mail about our pursuit of happiness.

We know people want to live more fulfilling and positive lives. But how do we actually do that? Is there a happiness code to crack? From our relationship with technology to whether money can really buy you happiness, we'll hear from both real people and experts to demystify this thing we're all searching for and hopefully find ways to be happy enough. You can find Happy Enough wherever you listen to podcasts. Yeah. Yeah. And you know,

the interesting thing is that this muting, or if you want to call it shadow banning that I have on the only, uh, social platform that I'm still on. This continued muting never goes away either. According to a declaration submitted by the plaintiff's counsel, the school district's attorney turned to him as they were leaving the courtroom and said, what are you going to do when we rescind the mandate?

And that same day, the school superintendent submitted to the school board a proposal to repeal the mandate. Twelve days later, the board voted to rescind the policy by a six-to-one vote with one abstention. That was the game that they were playing to try to get it dismissed. Say, well, it's moot because we removed the mandate. And the court saw through that. We held oral argument on the morning of September the 14th, 2023, where the school district's counsel was vigorously questioned. That same day, the school district submitted a report recommending

rescission of the policy. Twelve days later, they withdrew the policy. Litigants who have already demonstrated their willingness to be tactically to tactically manipulate the federal courts in this way should not be given any benefit of the doubt. Well, you were trying to manipulate us. We see that and we don't like that. School districts about face occurred only after vigorous questioning at argument in this court, which suggests that it was motivated at least in part by litigation tactics. They saw the tactics and the court called them out on it explicitly in the decision.

They go on to say, the district court reasoned that Jacobson does not require that a vaccine have the specific purpose of preventing disease. It acknowledged plaintiff's allegations that the vaccine did not prevent transmission or contraction of COVID-19,

but it declared that these features of the vaccine further the purpose of protecting school students and employees. And the policy survives rational basis review, they said. So that's the lower court that said that. So this is the Ninth Circuit quoting the lower court and said, well, it doesn't have to prevent disease. Now the Ninth Circuit Court says, yes, it does. Isn't that the purpose of a vaccine?

We looked at all this stuff, and none of it passed any muster. They were trying to change the definition of a vaccine, and they laid groundwork for that well before anybody claimed that there was any kind of pandemic. They were going in and legally changing it and saying, well, now a vaccine is also going to include these types of things, which open the door for the MRA to be used. But of course, they're trying to change the very definition of a vaccine in the sense that a vaccine was supposed to prevent you from getting something.

A therapeutic is something that treats you for a disease. And even the FDA had two different paths for therapeutics versus vaccines when they would go through their three phases. They would, if it was a therapeutic, if it was to treat a disease that somebody had, when they went through phase two and phase three, they would have people who volunteered, who had that condition or disease or whatever, and they would look to see if the therapeutic helped. But not so with a vaccine.

One of the reasons that the vaccine trials would run for years is because it was always their policy that they were not going to expose people who were well to a disease, which is what they would have to do if they were going to do a double blind study with a placebo and a group that was out there. If somebody has already got the disease, you could have some of them get a placebo and you could have some of them get this drug that you're testing to see if it's any good. But if you got people who don't have whatever it is you're vaccinating for uh you would be exposing everybody to this disease and that means that you'd be exposing

healthy people uh whether you know in both groups because you don't know if the vaccine is going to work so both people both groups of people the people getting a placebo, the people getting the vaccine, would be exposed to a disease, which is unethical, illegal by international law. And so that's why they would run these tests for many years, typically, you know, five, 10 years to run this stuff, because they would vaccinate the one group, and then they would look at the control group that got the placebo, and they'd look to see, as they're milling around the general population, is there much of a difference in terms of who contracted the disease? Happiness. We all know what it feels like.

But sometimes it doesn't come easy. I'm Garvey Bailey, the host of Happy Enough, a new podcast from The Globe and Mail about our pursuit of happiness. We know people want to live more fulfilling and positive lives. But how do we actually do that? Is there a happiness code to crack? From our relationship with technology to whether money can really buy you happiness. We'll hear from both real people and experts to demystify this thing we're all searching for and hopefully find ways to be happy enough. You can find Happy Enough wherever you listen to podcasts.

So they need to have a large population. They need to have a large amount of time in order to test that but of course many people pointed out that um you know maybe uh how would they expose people to covid19 if they didn't necessarily have it isolated to expose it to people so there were a lot of issues like that and um so uh the night circuit says that um to say that uh the vaccine uh does not have to prevent the that for it to be a vaccine by definition it prevents transmission they said well if you uh if you look at that and throw that out they said that misapplies. Jacobson. Jacobson held that the mandatory vaccinations were rationally related to preventing the spread of smallpox.

By the way, let me just throw in here. If somebody's already had it, what is the purpose of a vaccine by their theory purpose of vaccine is to challenge and expose your immune system to a dead or weakened pathogen so that your immune system can identify it and attack it that doesn't usually happen so they load up all kinds of things into the vaccine you know like mercury and uh um you know other things like that. So to try to irritate your immune system, get to do something. That's another thing that causes a lot of problems. But the bottom line is, is that if you are doing a simulated response to try to get somebody to respond to something,

if your body has already been exposed to a pathogen and it was able to defeat that pathogen, your immune system has been trained and you don't need some kind of artificial trainer that frequently doesn't work. So that was the other part of it. But they didn't even address that aspect of it. They said this misapplies Jacobson, which held that mandatory vaccinations are rationally related to preventing the spread of smallpox. Jacobson, however, did not involve a claim in which the compelled vaccine was disease to others is to also govern forced medical treatment, which is exactly what this was. It was a big medical experiment. And the people who did it to you, whether we're talking about Netanyahu or we're talking about Trump or we're talking about Trudeau,

these people who did it regardless of the country regardless of their stated political uh position they used us as lab rats very explicitly done by netanyahu and is people to be even on the ballot instead of in jail because it was forced medical treatment of an untested drug, of a drug that was tainted with Nazi science using aborted babies and all the rest of this stuff. It had so many different aspects to it. And here's the final thing they said at this stage, we must accept the plaintiff's allegations that the vaccine does not spread. The COVID-19 does not spread COVID-19 as true.

And because of this, Jacobson does not apply. So they said, okay, so you've been selling this. First you sold it as a vaccine. Then you sold it as a treatment, but still called it a vaccine. And then you tried to refer to an ancient and wrong Supreme Court decision, Jacobson, to try to legally force this on people. This is big news. In a concurring opinion, Judge Collins said the allegations in the case implicate, quote,

the fundamental right to refuse medical treatment. And pointing to more recent Supreme Court rulings, including a 1997 decision in which the court stated that, quote, the right of a competent individual to refuse medical treatment was entirely consistent with his nation's history and with constitutional traditions. In light of the common law rule that forced medication was a battery. Yeah, a battery. And the long legal tradition protecting the decision

to refuse unwanted medical treatment. It was coerced. People like Alan Dershowitz didn't care. People like Laura Loomer didn't care. Oh, well, you know, what do you say these people got? Well, it's your fault. I knew it was bad. You did it.

It's on you. I don't care. Oh, okay. So you know it was bad, but you wouldn't tell people, right, Laura? Because why? Because you wanted to suck up to Trump? Is that why you wouldn't tell people, right, Laura? Because why? Because you wanted to suck up to Trump? Is that why you wouldn't tell people about it? How pathetic.

People who will do anything for money, we have a word for that. It's called prostitution, Laura. You prostituted yourself for political gain. You let people get injured and die so that you could feather your nest with Trump. I hope you're happy about that. Hope you're happy. She evidently,

I don't know. She doesn't seem to be a happy person. Does she? CDC also changed the definition of a vaccine in their suit. The health freedom defense fund and the district employees alleged that the school district's vaccine mandate, which resulted in more than 1,000 employees losing their jobs prior to being lifted on September 26, 2023, violated the rights of personal autonomy, self-determination, bodily integrity, and the right to reject medical treatment.

I'm glad to see this happening. Over and over again, we're seeing people vindicated. But, you know, the sad thing about it is so many people who did this under duress, who were coerced into it, died or were crippled and could never work again. I remember the orthopedic surgeon that I interviewed, his hands shake all the time. Now he can't, he lost his, he took the jab because he was working in a hospital environment

and they were requiring it because Trump had bribed them to do it. And then Biden said, well, no, we're going to take away this massive increase of money that Trump gave you. We're going to take away that plus all the CMS. You'll be out of business. We'll shut you down effectively if you don't vaccinate all your employees. Oh, it wasn't a mandate, was it? Yeah. How cynical, how cynical and hypocritical to not call that a mandate. And so he got it. And so many stories I've seen of people who got it were disabled and could never work again.

Or they died. And so the people who stood for their beliefs and stood for their rights are now being vindicated over and over again. And I think that history is going to be on our side, no doubt about it. Guard Goldsmith, good to see you, Guard. He says, but this decision didn't question Jacobson fundamentally. It just said Jacobson didn't apply because the jab was not proven to be able to block the virus. That's right. Kat Lindley was very pleased with its decision as well,

but I noted to her on X that the decision doesn't undercut the wrong of Jacobson. And so it is a Pyrrhic victory. The court ruling should have questioned Jacobson as well. I agree, and I don't know if the L.A. school district will appeal this to the Supreme Court. At some point, the Supreme Court is going to have to go back and revisit that because to force medicate somebody, even if you do it under the guise of saying, we're trying to stop the spread of it,

you're forced medicating people who are not sick. All right. Uh, what is the justification for that? Uh always opposed jacobson and guard is exactly right uh that is uh but but here's the other thing about this decision that is interesting they're essentially and and there's nothing that the pharmaceutical companies can say they said well you said that you know vaccine is going to prevent disease and prevent spread.

You said it doesn't do that, so it's not a vaccine. You said that it's going to help people to have a milder version of it. That's the lie that they were telling everybody, but that's their lie. And so if we take them at their word, they're right. It is a therapeutic, and it's not a vaccine. And I think what is important about this is that it now calls into question, well, you've said that under the PrEP Act, we can't sue the vaccine companies. And see, this is yet another fraud.

The PrEP Act does not protect them against fraud. And it doesn't protect them against negligence and things like that, which is all evident. And now you have, this is yet another aspect. I think that, um, you know, one by one, we might be able to pry their fingers off of this thing and come after them in spite of George W. Bush is a prep act protecting them. So I think that's very important uh giza power plant says if the vax is a medical procedure you can litigate businesses for practicing medicine that's right administer administering the jab without a license any business any work or walgreens pharmacy etc that's right it opens up a lot of and um even even if jaco Jacobson stays there, what it does, this allows people to come after these corporations that put this out there.

I don't think they've got legal protection anyway, but this certainly would remove it. Cervantes Galan says, my Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram accounts have all been nuked for the crime of wrong think. My YouTube is flagged as problematic, quote unquote. And 80% of my comments are immediately removed. So much for freedom. Yeah, so much for social media, which, by the way, social media has always,

always from the very beginning, been there to watch and to monitor and to spy on us. It's just now that we're seeing what the plan was about. It started in the 1960s with a DARPA psychologist, J.C.R. Licklider. And then when the technology got to the point where the bandwidth was up, where they could practically implement his design, they created, actually, the CIA created its own venture capital firm called In-Q-Tel. But they had the intelligence community, had people on almost all of the venture capital firms that funded the people who created the search engines and social media and that type of thing. And it was free. Just come on in. It's all free.

Free speech. Free to use. All the rest of it. Who do you think was paying for that stuff? As many people said, you are the product. And they're selling it to the government. And they're selling it to the government for considerations of future service. You scratch my back, I scratch yours, that type of thing.

There definitely is a quid pro quo. Well, let me get a few more of these here. Grammy for God. So what does this mean for people going forward? Well, I think that it means that we've opened up some ability for people to get compensation for when they were hurt what it means economic compensation if you lost your job it would also mean compensation if you submitted to the coercion and you were injured i think that's what it means but see

there's still so much stuff that is hanging over our heads. That's why I say I think the best thing that we could do, again, I always believe that we need to approach this from the bottom up. And they believe that as well. Because when they, back in 2001, when they did dark winter two months before 9-11, anthrax attack one week later, two months after that, they put out model legislation to all the states. That model legislation, they put that in because they realized politics is local. They had a global agenda.

They had a national agenda, which was a global agenda to lock us down until they had an emergency vaccine ready for everybody and then force us to take it. That was the global agenda. Of course, it began in the United States 20 years ago. But in order to implement that global agenda, they had to do it locally at the state level. We have to, if we want to stop this thing, we have to identify those pieces of legislation and overturn them that's not an easy thing to do not an easy thing to do to even identify what they are let

alone to overturn them but that's really where um we have to go i think in order to stop this all politics is local and we're going to stop this you know they can if they pass their treaty and they're going to keep trying to pass their treaty, whatever they get through, whatever they pretend to pass, and even though they didn't pass it, what do we see? The Biden administration paid 100 countries to go ahead and enact it anyway. Very similar to what they did with the Model State Health Emergency Powers Act. All politics is local. They've got to do it country by country. They've got to do it state by by state and so that's where we have to fight them ultimately well uh when we come back we're going to take a look at the pandemic we're going to look at more

panic from the bird brains out there uh we also have dr william makers on treating cancer he by the way he's uh been a whistleblower on all this stuff. I've interviewed him in the past, and he is an oncologist. And so he's talking about some of the papers that have been done in other countries. First one was done in Iran, where they don't have big pharmaceutical companies, don't have any control. And so he talks about what some of these studies have identified in terms of the mechanism. Then he talks a little bit about some anecdotal cases of people who have been able to defeat cancer with ivermectin. And he talks about dosage. He talks about how to get it, what form to get it, all that kind of stuff.

So we're going to give you a little sample of that. We have a listener who contacted me. He's got a four-year-old son who's been diagnosed with a rare form of cancer. I know there's a lot of cancer out there now. It's really escalating. And this is another situation. Ivermectin again. If Trump wanted to do anything to help people, he could have, first of all, stopped the threats about ivermectin. People were threatened at the state level. They were threatening pharmacies.

They were threatening doctors. How would he have done it? Well, he knows exactly how to do it. He knows exactly what needed to be done. As a matter of fact, he said, hey, if they do any of these mass things again, uh, I'm going to remove their funding. Well, I'm glad that he says that. Do I believe him?

No, because everybody knows that's how the federal government gets what they want. They don't have, because of the 10th amendment, they don't have the power to directly order people do it. That's why they went the model state legislation route. Uh, they can give people money or withhold money to get them to do what they want. And so he understands that mechanism. His voters don't, but he understands that. And he also knows that if he wanted to make ivermectin available to people, he could have for far less than he did for the ventilators

or for remdesivir. And if he didn't even want to supply ivermectin to people, which again, you know, there's not a constitutional authority for it, but I mean, you just compare the other unconstitutional actions that he did in terms of,

you know, creating mass manufacturing of ventilators and remdesivir and other stuff like that. He could have mass manufactured ivermectin. Could have handed it out to people. But he chose not to. And he chose to not even protect the rights of physicians and patients and pharmacists to use it. And that still stands.

That still stands today. A couple more comments before I take a break. Narrow Way Narrogate Ministries. None of these evil miscreants will see the inside of a jail cell or otherwise. Yeah. Their judgment will only come at the hands of the Lord, who will fairly and righteously judge according to his word. The speed bump by the Ninth Circuit will do nothing

when they attempt to repeat this process of the bird flu pandemic they're staging for live operation. I agree. I don't see any salvation in the courts. I think if somebody wants to get compensation for this stuff, though, this does give them an opening. And it does create some difficulties and some resistance for them to. So I don't think it's a nothing burger. I think, though, that unless and until we do something to remove this state legislation and unless you focus on the local elections more than you do on Washington, all of these people in Washington, Republican and Democrat, were in on this.

They had no problem doing it. They have done nothing to turn any of it back, to prohibit any of it for the last four years. They're all just fine with it. So you can forget about getting anything done in Washington. If you're going to be able to do anything, it will be at the local level. And we do have precedent where they've been able to shut down the drug war, do other things like that at the local level, even though that was something that was very, very important to the national government. AP Rumble Seat says, unfortunately, now that enough people are on to them, they'll pivot and putting it into edible, vax, food and water. Yes, that's the other part of this. And or take us to war so that we don't come after them. Well, we're going to take a quick break.

When we come back, we'll take a look at some of the pandemic stuff. We'll be right back. Thank you. Thank you. Making sense common again. You're listening to The David Knight Show. All right. We have a very, very, very interesting interview today, and it's longer than usual. We're actually going to put it up in two parts. There's two parts to this interview.

It's Dr. Peter Hammond, who is out of South Africa. And for many, many years in all of Africa, he's been a missionary, going into communist areas or Muslim areas where they'll imprison, torture and kill people. And he's been arrested and taken to prison for things like that. And he continues to do that. In his native South Africa, he opposed Nelson Mandela. He met with him face to face. And some interesting things happened with

that. So we break the interview into two parts. One part of it is what's going on with communism. And we can see that with Nelson Mandela, who has become a big folk hero. Both conservatives and libertarians even love Nelson Mandela. And of course, the left loves Nelson Mandela, a very charismatic figure. At some point in time conservatives and libertarians need to get a brain and they need to understand that regardless of how much you love this charismatic celebrity figure or whatever you should judge them based on what they do not what they say not about their charm it's about what they do And so we're going to play that interview for you. So that's the first part of it where he talks about Nelson Mandela.

And then the second part of it is where he talks about his adventures, where he was arrested, kidnapped, other things like that that happened. This is, I think, such an important thing because we need to understand that all this woke stuff that is happening to us is really Marxism. Shee Van Fleet, in her book, Mao's America, A Survivor's Warning, pointed out, when I interviewed her, she said, yeah, people think that this is something new, this is something different. This is exactly what Mao did. They're following a prescription. He understands the history as well. He's seen this throughout these various communist nations throughout Africa, and he understands what is happening with that. And then the second part of this, the boldness to go into these areas, I think that's a message

that we need to hear. The American church has pulled in within itself, has absolutely no boldness to challenge any of this stuff, and it's become absolutely irrelevant collectively. Of course, not everybody. I'm just saying, if you look at the collapse of Christianity in America, it's because people are ashamed of the gospel of Christ. He looks at it and goes directly to the terrorists. He's actually got tracks for terrorists. It's one of the things he's got, you know, and he's got the gospel for guerrillas.

And he actually goes to the terrorists and the guerrillas and to the Muslim extremists, and he engages them. And let's God and his word take control. Isn't that amazing? And we need to have that kind of faith in America. That's why the church is collapsing here. So I think it's a very important interview. It's going to be most of the program today. But before, and thank you for the tip, DG8,

David, the reason Ivermectin or ACQ wouldn't be approved under Trump is because his Operation Warp Speed clot shot would have never gotten emergency use authorization if something was effective against COVID. Absolutely. That was the big tell. The big tell. I'm sorry. Only one thing is going to be allowed. Oh, so this is some kind of an agenda, a plan then.

This isn't about addressing a medical need or a pandemic. And somebody sent this to me. At first, I got it, and I thought it was from Professor Francis Boyle, personally, because I thought it was a response from him. I'm still not certain. The person who put it out was Franklin. His name is Francis. But I don't think that it's Boyle. Uh, although,

um, it's a forwarded message. I think the message was forwarded to me that somebody had received. So I don't think this was sent to me directly. Uh, but, uh, the, uh, message that he had, um, he called it Trump's mass murder bioweapon. He says, it's all in my book, Resisting Medical Tyranny 2022. So I guess Francis Boyle's not on the Alex Jones show anymore. See, I mentioned his name as I was saying that I was pushing back against this lab leak from early 2020, way before Trump did the lockdown. I said, no, this is not a pandemic. Look at the fake people falling down the streets and other things like that.

We don't have a pandemic. They are playing numbers games. And then we did have people later on. We did have excess deaths because then they rolled out the ventilators and they started rolling out remdesivir and things like that. But nothing like we saw with the vaccine when it rolled out beginning in the third quarter of 2021. And so I was saying that at InfoWars, but I was the only one who was saying that at InfoWars, uh, they were pushing the pandemic and Alex had Mike Adams on pushing it

all the time because that was going to help them with sales. And so Alex had me on with Francis Boyle in a kind of quote unquote debate. And Francis Boyle was against the vaccine, no doubt about it. But he also was feeding all of this fear about gain of function, which I did not believe. And I still don't believe. Actually, now I'm even more adamant that that's not what that was, that there was absolutely no gain of function,

even if that was what they were intending. There was no gain of function. I also share with Dr. Boyle his concern to stop the gain of function stuff. Nothing good could come of it. A lot of bad things could come of it and uh so this was sent to me um and uh this person franklin who sent it i think forwarded what boyle had sent out uh he said um he's not repudiated one bit of what dr alexander calls 100 fraud all of it that

means that um you know we're talking about the ventilators which you boasted about to the lockdowns to the mass to the social distancing and the duress uh of um brow beating people those are also bioweapons and so we need to understand the full spectrum of this we need to understand how they're trying to use this again against us with this so-called bird flu and then down in uh australia you see that dictator dan this is sent to me from a listener in australia believe it or not he's rewarded for his contribution to public health well i do believe it i do believe it take a look at jab senda arden and new zealand two of the worst people, you know, in New Zealand and in Australia now rewarded, you know, she's been handsomely rewarded.

She, after she could no longer dictate to people, she resigned. It's no more fun at that point. And, uh, she's been given one position after the other by the globalist elite. They're rewarding these people because that's what this is always about. That's all they wanted was what Dictator Dan and Jab Senda did. So he says, you're my main source for sanity in this crazy world. As a resident of Melbourne for 60 of my 71 years, born in England, I've had to put up with Marxist Dan for the last 10 years

before he disappeared into the sunset with his golden handshake, having totally destroyed this once great piece of paradise. Imagine my surprise tonight when I heard that this lover of communism has just been awarded the highest honor in the king's birthday awards. Well, yeah, exactly right. Because that's exactly what they wanted to do. He says, I guess nothing surprises me anymore. And that's true. It is completely evil. He says, I guess nothing surprises me anymore. Knowing that their day to face the music will happen eventually. And that gives me strength to not be too affected by whatever happens anymore. That's from Don in Australia. And then we have the issue of cancer.

And let's talk about that and about ivermectin. I got this letter from a supporter, Kyle, I'll just say. And he says, I've been a listener to the show for a few years now. I just recently found out my four-year-old son has athesian uroblastoma, if I'm pronouncing that correctly. A very rare form of cancer. I'm terrified at this point. I'm looking for anything I can think of that may help. He is about to start chemo in a few hours, which scares me due to the further damage that it can cause. I'm looking into changing his diet up with healthy greens and foods as well

as supplements like turmeric, et cetera, to help fight this disease. And again, I think that's very good. A lot of people say, let your food be your medicine. Gershom Cancer Clinic, that's what they would do. They would take massive amounts of vegetables and things like that and juice them so that you could get a lot of nutrients and things that are not going to feed the cancer like sugar and stuff like that. But he says, do you or maybe some of your listeners in the medical field have info that may be of use to me going forward? I just feel so lost. And I hate to come to you like this, but you have a vast knowledge and I do not want to miss any avenues of help. Well, I don't have vast knowledge, but I can tell you this. Doctors are almost twice as likely as the general population to believe in miracles when they're asked.

Why do you think that is? Because they have seen so many. And even the hardest of hearts began eventually over a period of time to see that they are treating disease. But it is God who heals. And so I don't have a lot of, maybe if somebody else has, and I'm going to tell you a little bit about ivermectin here from Dr. Makis, but I don't have any medical advice to give you, but I do have an audience of a lot of Christians who pray. And that makes a big difference. God is the one who heals. And God is the one who decides

the number of our days and the conditions that we live in. And if we understand that, we cannot manipulate God. We can't say some special incantation. There's not some eloquent prayer that I can pray or anybody else can pray. It's just that we know that God is in control. We know that God has a loving plan for those who love him. He shows his mercy for those who fear him. And we know that he has told us to ask him. And so I don't understand, you know, when God is sovereign, when God can do whatever he wishes,

why does he tell him to ask? My only understanding is that we get to see a response to that prayer. And I have. I have seen a lot of miraculous response to prayers for a lot of different things. And it truly is amazing. Things that cannot be explained away by circumstance or by chance. And that, I think, is why God tells us to pray. But you know, whether or not we live to 100 or we die as a child,

our life on this earth is infinitesimally small compared to eternal life. And that is the thing that we should have hope in. And it is something that anybody, especially a child, even a four-year-old can have a childlike faith in God. And so I would say make that your first focus. Make your prayers simple.

God knows our needs. We're not trying to convince him to be nice. He's loving God. He has a plan for us. But he asks, he tells us to ask him. And so you need to do that. And again, you know, this is one of these mysteries that we look at. But, you know, just understand that the Lord is God.

Doctors are not God. Science is not God. They have not declared a curse over your child. This is in the hands of God. He can use ordinary means. He can use providential means. Sometimes, you know, we look at it, a providence, a whole set of circumstances that come along and make something happen.

They can all be ordinary circumstances, but the fact that all these things are happening in just such a time, that can be a miracle in and of itself, that kind of providential care that God gives us. So I just want to ask the audience to pray for Kyle's son who has this rare form of cancer and also to pray for another listener, Caleb, whose son is suffering from

Crohn's disease. And just pray that God will heal them. It is something that he has told us that we can ask for, but we don't know what his overall will is. But we do know that he wants us to have a relationship with him so we pray for that for all of them pray that their um this disease will uh be taken away from them their suffering we pray that they will uh that god will heal them and that that will be something that will be used to strengthen the faith of the people who see it and to glorify God. That, we know, is his will. But let me play for you what Dr. William Makis had to say about ivermectin and cancer. That Merck has a 50-50 partnership with Moderna on mRNA cancer vaccines. Merck is going to be making billions of dollars on cancer and cancer, mRNA cancer vaccines, so they have no interest in continuing to investigate

ivermectin for cancer, for example, because it's cheap, it's off patent. They're not going to make any money on it. So there is tremendous amount of evidence that high dose ivermectin is extremely effective in treating many types of cancers. And the way I approach this is I usually look at, okay, what are the mechanisms of action? For example, what are the mechanisms of action by which ivermectin treats cancer? So I'm going to show you a couple of papers that will look at the mechanisms of action, what the studies have been done in terms of maybe animal studies or human studies looking at ivermectin and cancer, and then, because I get hundreds of emails and questions

about this, what is the dosing? How do you actually treat cancer with ivermectin so let's get started the first paper i want to share with you is a paper from 2022 by an iranian group headed by dr loftedazer and this is a very interesting paper because it just summarizes in a nice way the mechanisms of action of ivermectin in cancer. It acts on these signaling pathways called PAC1 and ACT and mTOR and WNT pathways. These are pathways that are involved in tumor proliferation, tumor growth. And so ivermectin inhibits multiple of these pathways that inhibit tumor growth, tumor proliferation, leads to cell cycle arrest, and it also inhibits metastases

and the ability of the tumors to create blood vessels for themselves. So that is key. Multiple pathways that inhibit tumor growth, tumor proliferation. Then ivermectin also acts on cancer stem cells. It inhibits cancer stem cells. And cancer stem cells are extremely important because they are involved in the aggressiveness of cancers. They're involved in metastases and they're also involved in cancer recurrence. So imagine you get chemotherapy, you think you've been cured,

but cancer stem cells tend to be resistant to chemo, and then your cancer comes roaring back because these cancer stem cells start proliferating again. So it inhibits cancer stem cells, very important. Ivermectin also stimulates cancer cell death, stimulates apoptosis, autophagy, other kinds of cancer cell death. Ivermectin also reverses multidrug resistance. So if you develop resistance to certain chemotherapy, Ivermectin will reverse it. And Ivermectin acts in combination with chemo or radiation therapy. So it has those additional benefits as well. Next, you want to look at

whether ivermectin has actually been used in cancer patients at the higher doses and whether those doses were safe. So a great paper on this is a paper by Claudio Castro back in 2020. And this paper looked at using high dose of ivermectin in children who had leukemia. One of the children was an 11 year old boy diagnosed with an extremely aggressive leukemia and they gave him one milligram per kilogram once daily, so per day, with chemotherapy. And what they showed was that he started feeling better, and the blasts, which were the leukemic cells, were cleared from his blood. Now, they only gave it for a short time with the chemo. Then, you know, he eventually started getting worse again.

So they resumed ivermectin, one milligram per kilogram, for another six months. And then he had stable disease for a surprisingly long period of time. So this 11 year old boy was taking one milligram per kilogram of ivermectin daily for six months and he had no side effect. His only therapy related complaint was that he didn't like the smell. So no side effects whatsoever at one milligram per kilogram. This is very important because this actually gives you an idea of what doses should be used.

Here's an article that was published in 2023. Now, this is not a peer-reviewed article. This was on thedesertreview.com. And it features experiences of doctors around the world who have used ivermectin at high doses and with certain cancer patients and how those cancer patients did. had of an ovarian metastatic cancer patient who took a fairly low dose only 12 milligrams per day and her tumor markers her ca-125 levels dropped from 288 down to 22. Now this patient was taking ivermectin with chemo but you know had a had a shocking response to therapy. Then there's a report by Dr. Landrito who reported a doctor colleague of his who had terminal gallbladder cancer. She was dying from gallbladder cancer

and she just started taking a high dose of daily ivermectin for 14 months and her terminal gallbladder cancer completely resolved and disappeared. And so when you go into the details of this case, you find out that she took an extremely high dose for the first few months of two milligrams per kilograms per day. So here we have again that dose two milligrams per kilograms per day, which we saw from the Gutso article that this is a safe dose to take she experienced visual side effects for a few days but they quickly resolved so this was well tolerated at this very high dose then we have another report of a man named oscar nasu with a huge neck tumor and cannonball-sized lung metastases i'm going to end it at that point because I'm running out of time.

I've got to go to the interview that I had. And I also wanted to tell you that even though it's something like an 18-minute report that Dr. Make has done, you'll find on his sub stack. And in it, he goes into far more detail than I was going to play anyway in terms of the mechanisms. I gave you the one paper that was out of Iran, and there's others talking about the mechanism. And then he talks a great deal about individual anecdotal cases. He talks about the experience that people have had with different dosages.

And then he talks about what might be the appropriate dosages. He has tables and all the rest of the stuff it's a wealth of information if you want to go that route uh it seems to um nobody has identified um any any major problems with it like you would expect with radiation or chemotherapy or surgery or things like that and it is something that does not interfere with this other stuff. And so actually it can help the effectiveness of the chemotherapy. So investigate that if you're interested in it. And I wanted to read some of the comments here. And there's one other thing I wanted to cover before we run out of time. Psalm 144, thank you for the tip and said, hey, David, the only

difference between God and a doctor is that God doesn't think he's a doctor. That's right, because the doctors think they're God. That's great. John Henry 377 and S.A. Miller both said that they'll be praying and we will give God the glory. And Cervantes Galan, Kyle, said that there is power in prayer. Years ago, my 10 year old nephew had a giant cyst in one of his testicles which required amputation we got together for a season of prayer and on operation day it was gone that's right and of course uh as a syrian girl points out

pharma has no interest and you talk about wanting somebody to have a chronic condition. Oh, cancer is exactly what they want with all of that. But we don't want to make an idol out of ivermectin or an idol out of medicine or any of the rest of these things. And that's one of the things why I feel compelled to speak out about the nonsense that's being put out by people like this latest song Natasha Owens put out. You've got Wayne Allen Root bragging about the fact that she based this on his Chosen One article that he helped to co-write the lyrics. You've got Marjorie Taylor Greene over the weekend, going to the Trump rally in Vegas and comparing Trump to Jesus. There is no comparison.

There's nothing there to compare. There is absolutely nothing unusual about a political prosecution. Maybe you should look at the J6ers, for example. Maybe you should look at the people in prison for trying to stop mothers from making the mistake of aborting their child don't pick on trump of all people you know paying trying to lie to cover up hush money to a hooker i understand it's a political person persecution uh and not just a prosecution we have political persecutions going on all the time with little people and people like marjorie teller green never care she doesn't introduce any bills to stop any of this stuff the no knock swat team raids or any of the rest of this stuff

and so uh when we uh when we look at this chosen one, I wanted to play that for you. And the person, Natasha Owens, she's somebody who a few years ago, five years ago or so, she started, as far as I could tell, she had her first hit songs that were kind of country western worship, contemporary Christian music. And in the last, beginning last year, she came out with a song called Trump One. And boy, that has really juiced her career. If you want to make money, right? Jesus saves, but Trump pays cash, okay? That's the way to understand what these people are doing.

It's crass commercialism. There isn't anything spiritual about any of this stuff. She said, we're in a battle between good and evil. I believe God has chosen President Trump to push back against the evil in our country and the evil in this world. President Trump is the chosen one. Well, look, God, as Joseph said to his brothers, he said, you meant it for evil, but God used it for good when they sold him into slavery. God can use evil for good, or he can use people as a judgment against a country.

And I think this country is looking at God's judgment. Here is her song. I'm not saying he's something divine. He gets in trouble big time after time. He's controversial, but one thing is true Imperfect people, a perfect God can move I'm standing with the chosen one I am the chosen one Ain't no stopping what the Lord's begun

Yeah, and Wayne Allen Root is so excited about the fact that he came up with that chosen one. He said, I wrote this stuff about how he was a chosen one. Remember, I talked about that. So what blasphemy? This guy calls himself a Christian? Look, we can. They always come back and go, I'm not idolizing him. And it begins with saying, well, you know, I'm not saying that he's divine.

Look, you don't have to carve an idol out of something. That's one of the reasons why we show that joke thing, that golden statue that they had of Trump in his, you know, in his shorts and all this other kind of stuff. They did something of a joke. But you don't have to have a literal statue. You can idolize anyone or anything, right? Talk about American idol, teenage idols, other things. It can be something like sex, money, or power. Just ask Trump.

He's got idols all over the place that he worships openly. It can be that type of thing. And as Christians, we need to have that kind of discernment. You know, they hold this out there. They compare him to Jesus. As a matter of fact, Wayne Allen Root compares him to Jesus, to Moses, and then to Nelson Mandela, which is where we're going to go with this interview that is coming up. We'll talk about Nelson Mandela. And of course, he'll talk a little bit about Jesus as well. But he was so proud of the fact that he was going to explode liberals' heads. Well, I think Christians ought to have their heads exploded over this. He said, Jesus Christ was demonized, condemned, and found guilty at trial for giving hush money to hookers.

He doesn't have any idea what was going on. Jesus said, no one takes my life from me. I lay it down. Moses was demonized, insulted, challenged, and threatened again and again by his own people. Oh, so Trump is like Moses? Oh, no. Actually, he's also like Mandela, who was in prison for decades before becoming the president of South Africa. He said, I despise his ultra-left politics. He was not ultra-left. He was Marxist. He was a terrorist, a Marxist terrorist. And that's why Peter Hammond opposed him. He said, Mandela, the man, rose above politics and ended the scourge of apartheid. He became a legend and he won over the world because the world cannot distinguish between the charm of a terrorist and of a person who does the right thing but

doesn't have charm. But Peter can, and we're going to go to that interview. Let's go to that right now. African Connections traveling to Zambia does so at their own risk. That's the Bureau of Under-Reform Mission Risk, which was released after spending 16 days in a Zambian prison. Mr. Peter Hammond is the director of the organization Frontline Fellowship, which does Christian mission work in African states.

His group was arrested and thrown into prison after refusing to pay bribes and part with some of their equipment. Epic and Mr. Peter Hammond were captured near the Malawi border four days ago. The seven, who were part of the California-based emergency relief team, were reportedly providing relief assistance to Mozambican civilians in the war-torn country. Mr. Hammond will arrive in South Africa today. He is expected to give a full first-hand account of how the group was kidnapped by Frolima soldiers to members of the media at Jansmats Airport.

We were actually in Malawian territory. We did not stray into Mozambican territory. We were definitely on Malawian side of the Moz at Jan Smuts Airport. We were actually in Malawian territory. We did not stray into Mozambique territory. We were definitely on Malawian side of the Mozambican checkpoint. They came out and surrounded us with guns and they forced us across at gunpoint into Mozambique, put us into Soviet armored vehicle, late into Soviet helicopters, late into Soviet plane,

and we were transferred all the way down to Maputo to the secret police prison at Mashava. We were not arrested, we were abducted. Christian survivors of massacres related to us many incidents of communist persecution of the church in Angola. They told us how Cuban officers came into their churches and put an AK-47 assault rifle up on a pulpit. They said, this is now your God. This has power over life and death. Worship this. The Holocaust in Rwanda has been widely reported. However, the anti-Christian aspect of the Hutu mass murder

seems to have been generally ignored. So too has the influence of witchcraft, Marxism, and Islam. The answers to prayer that we have seen, even the Nuba Mountains, which was an island of Christianity in the Sea of Islam. Groups like Frontline Fellowship make their own way into Christian-held territories. Outside of the UN umbrella, they are

free to bring medical and food assistance, Bibles and educational materials and agricultural tools and seed. And most precious of all is the Jesus film in Arabic which we will be showing in this conference tonight. Whenever we asked them what can we do to help you, we heard these words, Biblia, Biblia, Biblia. They wanted Bibles.

And when we produced the Bibles, we saw people falling on their knees and weeping, saying, I've never had a Bible before. Not since the Cubans burned my Bible have I had the word of God for myself. The Muslim Arab North has been attacking the Christian Black South since 1955. Most of the West Wall is pockmarked with holes from hundreds of pieces of strap-on. They are fighting to protect their families.

They're fighting that their wives and children will not be taken slaves, so that they can liberate their country from this fundamentalist Muslim regime which is trying to wipe out every trace of Christianity. It seems incredible that any government would target their own citizens and actually bomb hospitals, schools, churches, marketplaces. The Cubans then took many of the pews and Bibles and hymn books and the Lord's table and pulpit and made a bonfire outside. On this bonfire they threw the rest of the Bibles and hymn books.

They then took the meat that they desecrate the church with, and they had a barbecue. They actually roasted the meat for their meal of celebration. Later, they went into the church and tried to burn the whole church down. God's incredible guidance, protection, provision will inspire a new generation of Christians. Well, he then turned to, I'm surprised you're trying to take away women's rights. Now, she's standing against women's rights. He is at that stage working for legalization of abortion. I said, Mr. Mandela, you are questioning the Christianity of people who over 40 years ago legalized apartheid.

I tell you, Mr. Mandela, it won't be 40 years from now people question your humanity for legalizing abortion. You're replacing apartheid with abortion, and abortion is worse. Abortion does not just restrict a baby's right as to where it can live or put it on a a separate voters roll or limit where it can swim or which cinemas it can go to. Abortion takes where the baby is right to live, even before it's taken its first breath outside the womb. You're advocating discrimination on the basis of age. You're replacing discrimination on the basis of race with discrimination on the basis of

age. And I said the worst apartheid is that which separates a baby from its mother, from its life support, and at a critical stage, and kills it. Mr. Mandela, what you are advocating is worse than what you have replaced. And he was a bit more unsettled. Now, this was Thursday. Monday morning, knock on the door, two senior representatives of the South African Revenue Service, which is our equivalent of your IRS.

And they started an intensive seven-year audit. They went back six years. They carried on for seven years. So we'd had a 13-year audit, myself, my wife personally, and every ministry we were involved with. Personal liberty books, African Christian Action, Front every ministry we were involved with, personally with the books, African Christian Action, Frontline Fellowship, we were all audited. And it was so intense, they were demanding millions from us after the first few months and in back taxes. Joining us now is Dr. Peter Hammond. He has an amazing background. He's been involved in a lot of things all over Africa as a missionary, but especially in South Africa where he lives.

And he began as, well, he's been doing this for over 38 years. And maybe this is an older biography that I've got. It might be longer than this now. Pioneering missionary. 42 years now. 42. Okay. There you go. He pioneered missionary outreaches, including into war zones of Mozambique, Angola, and Sudan. He often traveled off-road by motorbike. Peter has traveled hundreds of thousands of kilometers to deliver Bibles to persecuted Christians in Africa and Eastern Europe. And we're going to talk to him today a little bit about the missionary stuff, but we're

going to begin with his personal experiences with Nelson Mandela. But let me just read the rest of this to you. His missionary activities, he's been ambushed, he's come under aerial and artillery bombardments, he's been stabbed, shot at, beaten by mobs, arrested, and imprisoned. He's flown far behind enemy lines to the Nuba Mountains in central Sudan with tons of Bibles, books, medicines, relief aid. He walked through the war-devastated Nuba Mountains showing the Jesus film in Arabic. And you know what that means. He was in a Muslim area. Proclaiming the gospel, training pastors, and evading enemy patrols. I tell you, Peter, thank you for joining us.

It looks kind of like 21st century Paul, except you got a motorbike that Apostle Paul never had. Thank you for joining us. I want to begin with Nelson Mandela because it's kind of interesting, I think, in this country and around the world, we have people who idolize Mandela. We have Clint Eastwood, a libertarian, who did a movie about him. More recently, we had Wayne Allenroot, who's a big Trump supporter. He said he was the one who put the lyrics up for The Chosen One, this new song that came out. And he said, Trump is like Jesus, he's like Moses out and he said Trump is like Jesus he's like Moses and he's like Mandela and it's like what in the world is he talking about here and so you know they it's it is strange to see that combination of people and I think it is truly idolatry but it is it is amazing that he

would hold a conservative self-profess conservative, would hold Mandela in such high esteem that he would put him there with Jesus and Moses. You met Mandela. Tell us a little bit about your impressions of him. Yes. So Nelson Mandela is a very charismatic person. He's very affable. He's a pretty good public speaker, and he really gets people comfortable around him. So I can see why some people have been a bit charmed by him.

He is a very effective politician in terms of being able to, you know, kiss babies and press flesh, you know, shake hands and put his arm around people. people and and of course most famously putting on a springbok rugby jersey at the world cups when south africa springboks won the world cup rugby in 1995 that's just probably the most astute brilliant thing he ever did in his political career and you know why would you not want to be associated with the winners of a world cup um especially when rugby is more than the national sport in south af. It was the way to the heart of the Afrikaans and most of the white people. And when Mandela took that shirt on and put on the cap of the Springbok rugby players, he won a lot of support. And this is what Clint Eastwood immortalized in his film, even though it was a very dishonest film. I did a review,

which is on a website, of the Invictus film. The Invictus film is actually an Antichrist film. Invictus is an Antichrist, secular, humanist, atheist poem to whatever, it matters not how straight the gate, nor how charged with punishment the scroll, to whatever gods there are, declare, I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul. Now that is the poem of Invictus, and that poem is recited several times

over in the film, with dramatic music behind, by the Nelson Mandela character, which is played by Morgan Freeman, who actually had played God in a couple of different Hollywood films beforehand, no doubt preparing for the role of playing Nelson Mandela. So idolatry is the word.

And interestingly enough, the winning rugby team, the Springbok rugby team in 1995, the World Cup soccer, was containing a number of very key evangelical born-again Christians. And the captain of the team, which is played by the Hollywood star, he gave all the glory to Jesus Christ. Yet in the film, they have this man swearing, sleeping with his girlfriend the night before the match,

which his now wife said never happened, and which, you know, is totally fictional, and the man never swore uh in in um the match and things like that and then they have him at the end asking one of the players to to thank god for winning the match and as they said that's not what we prayed for we prayed whether we won or lost after every match we got on our knees and we thank god for the privilege of taking part in the match whether we won or not was not the issue we didn't get down the knees to thank god just for winning the match but for the privilege of playing in the match and we would have done it whether we won or lost and so uh Francois Pinot I think it is who's the team captain he gave the glory to Christ

and Clint Eastwood's film gives all the glory to Nelson Mandela. Can you think of any national sport in history where the credit for winning a match is given to the head of state? I mean, does the British Queen or Prime Minister get the glory when the British team wins, which hasn't been for many years, I'll admit. Does the American government get the honour if an American team wins a match and so on? For that matter, if the team loses, do you blame the government? And, you know, what about the team's captain?

What about the manager? What about the coach? None of that comes into it. It's just Nelson Mandela won the World Cup for this helpless team that had no chance, which isn't true. Interestingly enough, not that I'm a major rugby person, but we all followed this pretty closely at the time. The favourites were not the New Zealanders, but the Australians.

And the South Africans knocked the Australians out of the World Cup early on in the tournament, which of course upsets the whole thing that the premise of Invictus film by Clint Eastwood was that the South African team was hopeless, had no chance, and the only reason they were in the match was because they were the host country. And so they didn't have to adhere to the same stance, which is nonsense. And so they knocked out the favourites, the Australians, early on. That shows they weren't coming from nowhere being helpless and that Nelson Mandela sort of egged them along with some amazing speeches and coaching of the team captain. I must say, it's a well-made film, unlike Long Walk to Freedom, which is just total mindless propaganda. Clint Eastwood crafted a good piece of propaganda and a well-made film.

It just played very loose for the facts. Yeah, yeah. And it never, quite aside from spitting nelson mandela was in this cell for 30 years which is rubbish he was never in that cell for 30 years he was a prisoner for 26 years and on the island for only part of that time he was in luxury in other prisons in fact his last prison accommodation was in a warder's home with a swimming pool and all kinds of things from fax machines, full screen TVs, big kinds of privileges with cooked meals all the time. He was in luxury. They called it five star prison where he was at the end.

But also they made out that this Robben Island was such a terrible island. It's nothing like the French Devil's Island. Robben Island is actually a paradise. I've been there. It's a a terrible island. It's nothing like the French Devil's Island. Robin Island's actually a paradise. I've been there. It's a beautiful paradise island. I'm surprised they haven't opened up for tourism yet because it would be an ideal place to put five-star hotels and so on for tourists when they come.

The whole of Cape Town can be under clouds and pouring rain, and Robin Island can be sitting in the sunshine. Well, they could make it a shrine to a mandela at the same time but then people might realize how nice it was yes well they've already um rigged the whole evidence because when people come to do the pilgrimage and now some of those sell and burn incense and light a candle like bill clinton did and henry clinton's song they've all made their trek and pilgrimage to Mandela's cell.

They've taken out the bed. They took out the desk. They took out his chair. They took out the bookshelf. And they put just a mattress on the floor and a bucket in the corner. And you don't see the bookshelves that are in the pictures of when he is there. You don't see the desk or the chair. You don't see the bed.

It's just dishonest to say this is how Mandela was locked up in the chair. You don't see the bed. It's just dishonest to say this is how Mandela was locked up in a cell. And then they don't tell you that he had free access to the island all day. Like all the prisoners, he could walk anywhere in this island during the day. They just set him in a cell at night when the sun set. And that puts a whole different perspective on it. I've been in prison, a different place in Africa. And I must say, if I had to be locked up in a prison, I would choose Rob Land as the best option of all of the ones I've seen. I've been to a lot of prisons around Africa, and I've been an inmate for some. So the way it's been depicted in the film is so dishonest, and they never tell you what he's locked up for, except for opposition to apartheid, which is nonsense. There are many people opposing apartheid who never ended up in prison.

Mandela was in prison for blowing up people, incinerating people, murdering people, for terrorism, for revolution, for subversion, for sedition. He was arrested for sabotage and planning a revolution. He was not locked up for opposing apartheid. There were whole political parties and people who dedicate their lives to fighting apartheid, like Bishop Desmond Tutu, who never ended up in jail at all. So the film's premise is also false. And, you know, shame on Clint Eastwood, who we like for many other reasons. But on this point, he really adopted this idolatrous view of Mandela as this poor, innocent, you know, he's almost like an Alexander Solzhenitsyn character here yeah and uh Robbenhain's almost like the Gulag Archipelago

not that they would ever make a film on Solzhenitsyn or the Gulag Archipelago but um that's just the way it's been depicted and it's so dishonest well let's talk a little bit about it was the Marxism that uh you were about. It was the Marxism and the terrorism, which is why he was in prison. But they made it about apartheid. And, you know, so when we when we look at this, I find what I find interesting is how and this happens in America, too. If you have some famous charismatic figure, they don't care. Nobody cares about the policies the policies are shuffled to the back and all becomes about the man which is kind of you know what we're seeing people refer to

politicians right now everybody's in a civil war over trump they love him or they hate him and so it's about him being the chosen one or whatever so it's this this person that they either demonize or turn into some kind of godlike figure. And I think that is the real common thread between a Marxist from South Africa and what we're seeing happening in politics today. Talk a little bit about why you opposed him. You were not in support of apartheid, but you were opposed to Marxism, correct? That is correct. And in fact, I met Nelson Mandela just back in 1996. I just marked tens of thousands of people to parliament, the biggest demonstration ever seen in our city of Cape Town.

Now, South Africa's got three capitals. We have a legislative capital, which is Cape Town, where we have our parliament. We have an executive capital, which is Pretoria, where we have the union buildings with the president's office. And we have a judicial capital, which is Bloemfontein, in the centre of the country, where we have our Supreme Court. So South Africa has three capitals, and Cape Town is the legislative capital. Also the mother city, which was the first settlement in all of South Africa, first official city in the country. So in Cape Town, our mission headquarters is not far from Parliament, and I've led many marches and protests to Parliament under the previous government and the present one. And so when Mandela was seeking to paganise this country, and by paganise this country,

I mean legalising blasphemy, prostitution, pornography, perversion, all of these things, and seeking to legalize abortion, although they hadn't done that yet. When I marched this large group of people to Parliament, we shut down Cape Town. Our people were still gathering at the castle when the front group had arrived at Parliament. A solid body of people going for kilometers, for miles through town, blocking all traffic as we marched upon to protest the paganisation of South Africa. And our slogan was

Grontvet op Kortsevet, which is Afrikaans for Constitution must be based upon God's law. Grontvet op Kortsevet. And so we marched to Parliament and after Cyril Rampos, who is the present president, had been sent out to collect our memorandum, and that in itself is an interesting story. I don't want to get sidetracked, but this is relevant. Cyril Rampos was the chairman of the Constitutional Assembly that was drawing up our new constitution. And he was pushed out the door to receive us, and he came out looking terrified.

His eyes were wide, and you could just see the terror on him. And according to our friends inside Parliament, like Kenneth Meshu, he was pushed out the door because the ANC was afraid the end had come. You know, we had 30,000 people outside Parliament. They thought they would be hanging from the lights, the streetlights by the end of the day. But of course, we're Christians. We don't do that sort of thing.

But we could have overthrown the government had we been the kind of thugs and revolutionaries that the ANC supporters are. But we didn't break anything. We didn't damage anything. We didn't even leave litter behind. So out comes Sula Ramposa to receive our memorandum. And he sees my Zulu friend standing next to me, Reverend Farno Sabisi, and he says, brother, can I borrow your Bible? And Farno Sabisi had a beautiful leather Bible purchased in Phoenix, Arizona, by the way, engraved with his name in gold, gold etching on the leather cover, Reverend Farno Sabisi.

My father-in-law, Bill Bathman, actually gave it to him as a gift when he visited America. So Cyril Rimposa doesn't wait for Farno's response. He just grabs his Bible and takes it under his arm as he walks up the ladder that we prepared onto the platform, which was the back of a truck, actually, which was a platform for speaking to this huge crowd. And as Cyril Rimposa gets to the top, he lifts up this Bible and says, look, I'm also a Christian. I bring my Bible with me to every day. I know an American politician who did that. Yeah. I'm sorry. Go ahead. That's amazing. Now, Cyril Ramaphosa is a guy that was, you know, the current head of the ANC. We'll talk about what just happened in politics there, but he had, he took over, I guess, from Mandela, but he's been there for quite a while.

I don't know the succession of political figures there, but yeah, we'll be talking about him in a moment. So Sulaim Persia was the man that Mandela appointed to chair his constitutional assembly to draft this new constitution that enshrines LGBTQ rights, which enshrines everything from the rights for blasphemy and pornography and legalized prostitution and ultimately the legalization of abortion, all of that. And Ram Perza was the man who paganized South Africa's constitution

and made sure we didn't have an humble submission to Almighty God, which the previous constitutions of South Africa always had. So still Ram Perza, he knows how to talk the talk. He knows how to pretend to be a Christian. He was, in fact, an evangelical Christian, a Pentecostal at university when he was studying, and a friend of ours, Kenneth Meshu, who's a pastor, shared a room with him and said, you know, Silram Posa knew the gospel.

He would act like he was a Christian, although, of course, he's an apostate now, being part of the Southern Communist Party and all the rest of it. So Silvan Rampoza could just lie so fluently, so easily, and he knew that we knew he was lying, but he didn't care because most of the people out there didn't know this, and he was having the people eating out of his hand within minutes. Well, also after this march to Parliament, we had someone come from the President's office instructing us that the President was summoning us to come to Krososkura Estate, which is the President's mansion, the house that Cecil Rhodes built,

and he donated to the people of the Cape for future leaders of the Cape. Well, the South African President's been staying in there since 1910. And so Mandela summoned me to come to his home on the Thursday. We marched on Tuesday. Thursday, I'm summoned to go to the president's mansion, South Africa's equivalent of the White House, and what is it called here, which means the Great Bonn. So as I arrived and Mandela came into the room,

he immediately asked so Mr Hammond what were you doing in the years of struggle now struggle is what the communists call the revolution of the fight and so on so I said I was fighting people like you sir and he smiled, he laughed, he slapped his knee, he stood up and he came over and he shook my hand and he said I'm so glad to meet an honest white man. He said, all the whites I've met so far have told me they always supported me and never supported the National Party. I wondered how the National Party stayed in power for 40 years when all the whites actually supported me. And I said, well, Mr. Mandela, make no mistake, I was not fighting for apartheid.

I was fighting against communism and I was fighting against terrorism. And so Mandela said, but apartheid is the greatest evil in the history of the world. And I said, I cannot agree with that, Mr. President. That prize must go to your friends, your supporters, the communists. They have left 160 million corpses in the 20th century so far, just since 1917. And that's according to the Black Book of Communism, written by ex-communists, using their own documents themselves, documenting over 100 million people killed in communist countries, according to their own records in Eastern Europe. Of course, we don't yet have the records for Red China,

but we know that that could add about another 68 million more of what Mao Zedong added. And we're not talking about enemies, foreigners killed in war. We know that that could add about another 68 million more of what Mao Zedong added. And we're not talking about enemies, foreigners killed in war. We're talking about civilians killed in peacetime by their own governments. Yes. Of 160 million corpses littering the 20th century from secular, humanist, atheist governments, communist governments. They have been the greatest mass murderers in the history of the world. Well, as I said that, Mr. Mandela was still silent. So I went on, I started to catalog also the millions killed by Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and, of course, Vietnam, all the way

went through to Ethiopia. And Mengistu, who was his friend and ally, who was hiding in South Africa to escape from the genocide prosecutions against him from the International Criminal Court. And then I went on to Fidel Castro, his best friend, who he had just welcomed to South Africa and had addressed a joint sitting of our Congress, well, both the Senate and the lower house of assembly, and gave him the biggest award South Africa's got to give and mentioned the millions killed under Fidel Castro in the island paradise he turned into a hellhole that millions of people are seeking to flee on rafts and shock-infested waters and when I finished all this Nelson Mandela leaned back stared at the ceiling and went on a trip

down memory lane. When I was a prisoner of the Boers on Robben Island, he said, they would not allow me to wear long trousers or sunglasses. My eyes are very sensitive. Now, interestingly, when you go on your pilgrimage to Robben Island and to Nelson Mandela's

cell, they've got a huge picture, I mean a floor-to-ceiling picture of Nelson Mandela in cell, they've got a huge picture, I mean a floor-to-ceiling picture of Nelson Mandela in long trousers and wearing sunglasses, leaning on his shovel at his garden patch. So I presume that meant at some stage, because certainly he's pictured wearing long trousers and wearing sunglasses at some stage there. So that couldn't have been, but I didn't want to argue this.

So I said, well, Mr. Mandela, my eyes are also very sensitive, and I can appreciate how uncomfortable it would be to be deprived of sunglasses in the sun outside. Again, just reminding him that I do know that he spent a lot of time outside the cell because they were allowed the full reign of the place outside, and he had his own vegetable garden and things like that. But I said, but Mr. Mandela, I'm sure you'll agree with me that that hardly compares with the atrocities documented by Alexander Solzhenitsyn in the Gulag Archipelago. Well, he then turned to, I'm surprised you're trying to take away women's rights and that you're standing against women's rights.

He is at that stage working for legalization of abortion. I said, Mr. Mandela, you are questioning the Christianity of people who over 40 years ago legalized apartheid. I tell you, Mr. Mandela, it won't be 40 years from now people question your humanity for legalizing abortion. You're replacing apartheid with abortion, and abortion is worse. Abortion does not just restrict a baby's right as to where it can live or take it or put it on a separate voters roll or limit where it can swim or which cinemas it can go to abortion takes where the baby's right to live even before it's taken its first breath outside the womb you're advocating discrimination of basis of age you accept you're replacing discrimination of race with discrimination of age. And I said, the worst apartheid is that which separates a baby from its mother,

from its life support, and at a critical stage, and kills it. Mr. Mandela, what you are advocating is worse than what you have replaced. And he was a bit more unsettled, and we basically had a tennis match backwards and forwards batting boards about these different issues and as the hour finished the clock sort of struck the time he stood up and he said you may take your photographs now well i didn't mean to be rude but honestly i had not brought a camera. I had not thought about pictures. And I said, no, thank you, Mr. President.

And he stopped and his jaw dropped and he looked absolutely shocked. Maybe we were the first people that met with him who didn't want the pictures taken with him. But what would I do with a picture of myself with Nelson Mandela? So we said, but we would like to pray for you. And he said, no, no, it's very private. And he was dismissive. And I pretended I hadn't heard. I put my hand on his shoulder,

and Reverend Zun Zevenster, who is with me, put his hand on the other shoulder, and I prayed, Lord God, may you not give Mr. Mandela one moment's peace until he does what he knows is right and just in the next legislation to protect pre-born babies from the violence and injustice of abortion and i prayed lord i pray that you will work on mr mandela's heart that he may bow the knee and surrender to you as king of kings and lord of lords and i gave him a book written by dr james kindy that i thought would be appropriate for someone who's a secular humorist

atheist um which showed a lot of God's hand in history and under all Marxist interests in history. And Mr. Mandela said, Mr. Hammond, my door is always open to you. I'm always responsive to the concerns of your constituency, which isn't the way I would have put it, but anyway. Very nice, very charming. And now this was Thursday.

Monday morning, knock on the door, two senior representatives of the South African Revenue Service, which is our equivalent of your IRS. And they started an intensive seven-year audit. They went back six years. They carried on for seven years. So we'd had a 13-year audit, myself, my wife personally, and every ministry we were involved with, personal media books, African Christian Action, Frontline Fellowship. We were all audited, and it was so intense.

They were demanding millions from us after the first few months in back taxes. But we're a tax-exempt organization. In fact, we have got it confirmed from our revenue service. We are tax-immune. We are tax-exempt. We are a non-profit, public benefit organization. In fact, we have got it confirmed from our revenue service. We are tax immune. We are tax exempt. We are a non-profit public benefit organization, a Christian mission. We don't owe taxes. But I had to hire a lawyer and an accountant to get us out of trouble, keep us out of jail, and to prevent us bankrupting our little mission. And we had our accountant saying, you're a small operation. Senior

investigators at the South African Revenue Service normally go for massive companies. Your budget is not even in their petty cash level. And we were a very small mission then. We're not that big now, but we were minuscule back in the 1990s when Mandela started his campaign against us. And how's that? He's so charming to our faces, but he started his campaign against us. And you know, how's that? He's so charming to our faces, but he sets his dogs on us. Yes. And at the end, by the way, of a 13-year audit, the senior investigators concluded that we owed them not a penny.

Wow. My wife had to fork out a thousand rand for some things. We had to get avidavits from family, grandparents and friends for gifts given to cover kidney surgery for our child, our child being born with kidney failure. And, you know,

even gifts from grandparents and so on needed avidavits. And my wife couldn't quite get everything signed off as she needed to. And so she ended up paying a thousand rand.

But that hardly justifies a seven-year audit by senior investors the revenue service the missions the ministries and myself owed them nothing and that was our experience of nelson mandela wow charming to our face but it is amazing it is amazing how the tactics are the same worldwide and that's one of the things i'll just say for our American audience here. When we look at this army of IRS agents, $80 billion to grow the IRS nine times bigger than it is right now. You want to talk about lawfare?

Well, that's what's coming for each and every one of us. That's what this is really truly about. That's always been the way they have politically used that. And so let me ask you, you mentioned Cyril Ramaphosa, and he went from, I guess, waving a Bible at the meeting there to leading chants a few years ago about kill the boar, kill the white man. Where is the South African Communist Party today? I know the ANC just lost election

for the first time in 30 years. Well, an interesting thing about that, the South African Communist Party is part of what they call the tripartist alliance. The ANC, the Southern Communist Party, and the COSATU, the Congress of Trade Unions, are united together in one. And the ANC is basically a front

for the Southern Communist Party. Every president of the ANC, every president of South Africa since 1994 has been a senior member of the Southern Communist Party. Now, if you go onto the Southern Communist Party website, as I've done, you will first of all find an intriguing thing that they're selling linen, baseball caps, linen T-shirts and mugs and so on, visa cards accepted. And so that seems awfully capitalist to me. But the next thing that's intriguing is, and I've seen this for years, the Southern Communist Party is not placing any candidates in the upcoming elections,

but advises all cadres to vote for the ANC candidate. What does that tell you? Southern Communist Party has never bothered to put up a candidate because they control ANC. By the way, just for amusement, I went onto the Communist Party USA website, and what did I see? They're also selling baseball caps, linen t-shirts, linen mugs, and pens and so on, and visa cards accepted and all that. But the Communist Party USA is not putting up a candidate in the upcoming elections. Now, I've been seeing this since the days of Clinton, by the way, and Obama, and certainly right now. The Communist Party USA is not putting up a candidate in the next elections, but advises all cadres to vote for the Democratic Party candidate. What does that tell you about the Democratic Party of today? They should be the ones with the red tie actually yeah and that's one of the greatest coups they ever pulled out there is to get

conservatives to say we're red we're red states and all the rest of the stuff i said and i've heard this from so many people lived under communism i talked to shivan fleet she said i can't believe you know red has always been the color of communism i can't believe that they've got people in america to embrace that and it's because we don't know history, and it's because we listen to the media, and because we accept whatever labels they invent. It's amazing. Yes, sadly, Serna, I know my history pretty well. I love history, and I've been a mystery for 42 years, especially to persecuted churches. I've worked behind the Iron Curtain throughout the whole of Eastern Europe during the dark days when we had to smuggle Bibles behind the Iron Curtain at secret meetings. And it's been very clear to me that communism,

not only is always red, but they've infiltrated the West to such extent, many people don't recognize. I don't know how many people realize that Abraham Lincoln, who's an idol in America, I would say Abraham Lincoln is to the United States what Mandela is to South Africa, what Vladimir Lenin is to the Soviet Union, an idol. And to walk the mall, as I've done, and to get to this massive temple and to see this phenomenal outsized idol of Abraham Lincoln

sitting in a Roman throne. It's not a tree, it's a throne. It's a Roman throne, a Caesar a Roman throne. It's not a church, it's a throne. It's a Roman throne, a Caesar's type throne. And what are the words in that marble behind? In this temple, as in the hearts of her people, for whom he saved the Union, is enshrined the memory of Abraham Lincoln forever. Words as it's forever saved, you know, hearts. These are all religious terms. And it's a fascist symbol that he's resting his hands on.

And this Lincoln Memorial was built in the 1930s when the fascist symbol was a symbol of Mussolini's fascist running Italy. And on every one of the Italian Air Force planes, the same symbol, the different sticks bound together with the X in the middle, and even the way it's bound, and the knots and so on, it's exactly the same as the fascist party symbol, and that's what Abraham Lincoln's idol is resting his hands on in the temple in the mall. I never noticed that. The fascista, I know what you're talking about, but I never noticed that. Certainly there is an amazing idolatry of politicians, just as we idolize entertainers, and I think that's one of the key things that we need to be aware of. When we talk about idolatry of politicians, it is about people say, well, I'm not

making him a god. I'm saying that he's not a god. And yet everything that you do says that he is a god in the way that you treat him. Well, what's also interesting is this explains why the Republican Party have the red tie and Democrats have the blue tie, although right now they should swap, as you said. But Abraham Lincoln was a correspondent with Karl Marx. Karl Marx was so impressed with what Abraham Lincoln was doing. And you know about the 48ers. The 48ers were 1848ers, the revolutionaries. Of course, 1848, when the Marxist Manifesto came out,

the communist revolutions tore every capital in Europe apart. Many people died. And as a result, many of the ringleaders were captured and hung, guillotined, or shot, as the case may be, around Europe. Many of the survivors fled across the Atlantic to North America and became the founders of the Republican Party. The Republican Party started out as a radical, revolutionary, Marxist-type operation, which is why they have the red tie. And many of the worst atrocities committed against the Confederates, especially the landowners, were done by 48ers, European Marxists who were in the Union Army, none of whom were prosecuted or fired

or demoted for their war crimes. And there were terrible war crimes, burning of churches, raping of women, burning of farmsteads, hideous atrocities done. The 48ers were only promoted, and they were the backbone of the Union Army of Abraham Lincoln. That just explains why Abraham Lincoln is so popular in Cuba, for example. Yeah. Let me interject here. I like to read alternate—I used to have more time to read but I I used to like to read alternative history and Harry turtle dove does some of the best alternative history in a book they did how few remain he ends the Civil War very early

on one little thing changes that changes the outcome of the Civil War and so most of the characters survive Abraham Lincoln is driven out of office in his alternative history in shame, but then he returns a few years later as the head of the Socialist Party. He knew his history. He really did, and so do you. That's really, it's truly amazing. Well, in Cuba, you see they've got the Avenue Abraham Lincoln. I say, why would you name an avenue in Havana after a capitalist like Abraham Lincoln? And the Cuban said, why would you name an avenue in Havana after a capitalist like Abraham Lincoln? And the Cuban said, no, he's not a capitalist.

He has a comrade. He's one of us. Maybe you've seen a picture of Fidel Castro visiting the Lincoln Memorial, standing looking very much in reverence, staring up at this massive idol of Lincoln. And that's one of the famous pictures from Time Life magazine of Fidel Castro paying his respects at the Lincoln Memorial. Well, they've got an Abraham Lincoln high school in Cuba. They like Abraham Lincoln. You might recall that the communists actually had an Abraham Lincoln battalion or legion in the Spanish Civil War, fighting inside the communists

against the nationalists. And at any rate, my main point here is that there's a lot of similarity between Lincoln and Lenin. I mean, Vladimir Lenin also saved the Soviet Union, fighting against the South, meaning the Ukrainians, the Georgians, and so on. The Soviet Union also has a Georgia. And Vladimir Lenin was also, like Abraham Lincoln, a complete failure in life as a lawyer and everything else, who had never achieved anything until he became the dictator of a state and then his main achievement is that he saved the union in a civil war a brutal civil war in which millions died in the case of soviet union only a few hundred thousand in the case of the united states america but um we won't add all the other lives that died because of a centralized states, abortion and all the other things, and imperial wars overseas.

But the way how Lincoln is revered in America and the way how Lenin is revered in the Soviet Union led to George Grant, an author, giving a sermon that you can hear on sermon audio, Lincoln and Lenin. One can just check it up on sermon audio, Lincoln and Lenin. And I think it's given much better by George Grant, the similarities between Lincoln and Lenin. One can just check it up on Sermon Audio, Lincoln and Lenin, and I think it's given much better by George Grant, the similarities between Lincoln and Lenin. But enough to say, I've got books on my shelf on Lincoln, Uber Alice, and Lincoln's Marxists, and there's an older book made on the real Lincoln. So if any listeners, viewers want to look into the other side, I maintain that Mandela is to South Africa what Lincoln is to the United States, and Martin Luther King, or should I say Michael King, is to the United States an idol, what

Mao Zedong is to the communist red Chinese, what Lenin is to the Soviet Union, an idol. What Churchill is to England, let me add as well. I mean, many countries have their idols, and as Christians, we should not be that thrilled to want to have an idol, because the sin most condemned in the Bible is idolatry. Yes. Idolatry. Making an idol, putting an idol, whether it's a political idol, a sex idol, a pop idol, a rock idol, a Hollywood idol, a sports idol, any idol that takes the place of first thing in our life. It should be God, and God alone should be getting all the glory. Solidio Gloria. And so we as Christians need to reject idolatry. Idolatry led every single prophet in the Bible to condemn Judah and Israel, and God abandoned Jerusalem and the temple to be destroyed, and all of Israel to be taken

off into Assyrian captivity, all of Judah to be taken off into Babylonian captivity because of the sin of idolatry. Idolatry destroys nations and civilizations. That's right. We should not play with idolatry. That's right. And it's, you know, we can, it can be people, most obviously people. And people say, well, of course, Lincoln is not a God, but they still idolize him nevertheless. But it can also, in our own lives, it can be things

like sex, money, and power. You know, these are also things that can become idols in our life. Let me ask you, as we talk about moral principles, and as you were leading that march against Mandela because of the overthrow of moral principles foundationally in the Constitution, why is it that Marxists always want to overthrow moral principles? Why do they always push abortion and hedonism and all the rest of this? Well, Christianity is the biggest enemy of communism and atheism, and the principle of communism is atheism. Atheism is the essential foundation for a communist state. And so their biggest threat is Christianity. Notice they don't

put their energy into fighting against things that are other than Christianity. They're not after the cult so much. they're not after false religions, they're after Christianity. Christianity is the enemy. And so to destroy a country, you've got to steal their history. And in fact, just to quote Karl Marx, the old gods must be pulled down

so that we can, and all the old statues must be pulled down to erect new gods. We must replace the gods of Christian Europe with our own gods, which is why they make gods of Dzenzki or the founder of the Cheka, which later became the KGB. They must lift up, well, Trotsky was lifted up for a while,

but of course then he went out of favor, and Berea also, and the statues are toppled, but Karl Marx, Stalin, he got toppled after he died, and then, of course, others since then. And they always need to put in their new gods. And I believe the family is the basic building block of society. So how do you destroy the family? Well, of course, if you can get men to abandon their natural responsibilities to become husbands and fathers and providers and protectors and so on. Well, pornography is a good way of distracting men to go after digital dolls and paper dolls and to

waste their lives, waste their energy, and to distract them from their highest priority. The most important thing all of us can do is be straight, get married, and have children, and raise them in the love and the fear of God, and to be hardworking citizens who will contribute to civilization. And if any of your ancestors had failed to do that, you wouldn't be alive today. And so for all of us to get married, but now what are they doing? Abortion, sterilization, transsexualism, transgenderism, gender fluidity. Let's castrate the young boys.

Let's have mastectomies for the young girls. Let's sterilize them effectively because that means extinction for that race, and they want to eradicate our Christian heritage. They can see whether it's pornography, whether it's transgenderism, whether it's abortion, sterilization, euthanasia, the whole goal is extermination or genocide for those races that have been traditionally Christian and which have this horrible attitude of give me liberty or give me death.

No taxation without representation. Let's get rid of those people. What we want is a bunch of puppets who like Play-Doh in our hands that we can use like guinea pigs in our social revolution who will support the government, offer them freebies, offer them all kinds of things, and if you can bring down the population of the traditionally Christian nations and swamp them with invaders from other countries where you've destroyed their economies and their stability, terrorize the populations that people

are fleeing, attract them to come to the previously Christian countries where they can be enticed with lots and lots of free this and free that, and we'll give you free Wi-Fi, we'll give you free cell phones, and put you up in hotels, and fly you all over the country, and you can get away with almost anything. Even if you want to come here to be a drug dealer, human trafficker, pimp, whatever, that's not a problem. You know, come, as long as you vote for our party and our candidacy um you know you're more than welcome and so this is part of the communist revolutionary tactics and in fact i think you've got to see where this came from um the communist international already in 1920s recognized that lenin got lucky and to quote antonio gramschi who was the founder

of the communist Party in Italy, he said, we're not likely to get the same correlation of forces in Western Europe. Europe is too Christian. We'll never be able to replicate the Russian Revolution in the rest of Europe. We're not likely to ever get a violent revolution like that again. That was just a unique correlation of forces. We got super lucky in Russia. but in the west you will only conquer the west when you can destroy christianity we've got to turn the christian mind into a non-christian mind and then into an anti-christian mind this will take at least two generations he said we must use the five culture carrying institutions to transform the society to act like what he

called cultural termites the five five culture-carrying, culture-transforming institutions are education, entertainment, news media, religious institutions, political institutions. And they spoke about the long march through the institutions of the West. We've got to rot out the pillars holding up Western civilization.

And he used the imagery of a termite eating the woodwork of wooden pillars. Now, you can put as much whitewash on the outside as you like, but one day, if the termites do their job, the pillars will collapse and the whole edifice will collapse with it. And so cultural termites, and this is called the Gramsci strategy. The Frankfurt School of Marxism in Germany were the ones advocating this, the Frankfurt School, and when the National Socialists gained control of Germany and they pushed out these people, they fled.

And many of them went to American universities like Harvard and Columbia, and they started to eat out the heart of Western Christianity in America too. Many also went to Hollywood. And for a time, the Communist Party was the only party in town, literally. Literally the only party in town. And. Literally the only party in town. And they hijacked Hollywood very early on. And this was a vision of Stalin. Stalin said, the cinemas in the West must become the new temples,

the new outreach centers, the churches to advance communism. And for a time, they actually succeeded very well. And then the Hollywood decency code of conduct came in which from 19 was 1936 to about 1966 kept a basic standard in hollywood but then after the 60s the protestant film office closed down because seventy thousand dollars a year was too much money to try and influence for the good hollywood and the catholic league of decencyency also closed down Hollywood, and they were taken over by, instead, the Church of Satan moved in, and Hollywood just went berserk from the late 60s on,

and you could just see everything evil being promoted, everything good being denigrated, laughed at, debased, slandered, taking God's name in vain became common, and they popularized amongst a population that didn't used to swear, swearing, and blasphemy. So even Christians will use some of these terms, oh my, OMG, and so on, which they wouldn't have done before. And so Hollywood has succeeded in doing a lot of what communism needs to do, according to the Gramsci strategy, erode the Christian foundations of Western civilization, and soon the communists will

just be able to move in and take over, which I think people have just noticed in recent years how that's actually worked out. You just have to look at the Obama and the Biden administrations to see how that's working out now. After generations of the Gramsci strategy and the eroding of Christian foundations, you can see this is why when Mandela came to power in South Africa, he knew his first priority had to be to undermine the Christian foundations of South Africa. South Africa in the past, now I was brought up in Rhodesia, which was not that

Christian, but we were fighting communism. And so when I came to South Africa in 1977, as my country was being betrayed to communism, I came into a South Africa that's radically different from today. Churches predominated. Churches everywhere. No cinemas open on Sundays. No shops open on Sundays. Sundays were for the Lord's Day, for worship. Blasphemy was illegal.

Pornography was illegal. You'd watch a film like Dirty Harry, and there was not one bit of smut, not one swear word in it. The censors would cut out every taken of the Lord's name in vain, every swear word, any nudity, any sex, any unnecessary violence, the church response would be cut out by our censors. And I must say, as a youngster, I thought when people were really angry, their mouth opened, no words came out. Because they would cut out the audio for some of these things and so um it was nice to grow up like that our school started Bible reading prayer hymn singing

the army the first thing that I saw going into South African army uh was the sergeant major standing in the middle of the parade ground as we were disgorged from our Bedford trucks and what's the first words I heard from the Sergeant Major in the army? Anglicans! Assembly to God! Baptist! Brethren! And he divided us into denominational groupings around the parade round.

There were tables with clocks sitting, taking down our false number, details, and all this because it was for roll call. Church attendance was not optional in the South Canary. Church attendance was compulsory. Now, of course, the chaplain service midweek would be done by your company, and there'd be roll call for that too. But Sunday services in your denomination national affiliation was compulsory, and they were going to check that you did that. We were issued our Bibles before we were issued our rifles. And quiet times were enforced in the South Gun Army.

Fifteen minutes in the morning and about fifteen minutes at night before the bugles sounded and you had to have lights out. And so the South Gun Army entrenched this, and just to show you the kind of spirit, how different it was before Mandela took over, after they'd called out about 70 denominations, there were still four men in the middle of the field, and the sergeant major said, well, what are you? And we all looked and thought, well, what could they be?

We've heard it all. And so one of them stood up and said, atheist, sir. Sergeant Major Scalding said, atheists? Atheists? Swap are atheists. AMC are atheists. You want to be an atheist, you join the communists. This is a Christian army.

Send them to the Pentecostals. And instead of a 40-minute Anglican service, instead of a one-hour Baptist service, they got a three-hour Pentecostal service every Sunday. That was the old South Africa. Very different from today. I, at one point, was distressed by some taking the Lord's name in vain and I went to the commandant, the lieutenant colonel in charge of base and I said, sir is it against the Lord to take the Lord's name in vain? He said it certainly is son. Why do you ask? Are men taking

the Lord's name in vain in my unit? I said sir I'm sorry to report to you that they are and your non-commissioned officers are foremost in the offense. And he said, leave it to me, son. I'll deal with this. And I saluted, did an about turn, left the Commandant's office. And, I mean, it's also interesting that as an enlisted soldier, a rough woman of no rank, I had the ability to approach the commander about something like this,

and he did act on it. The very next Friday at the Italian parade, the Commandant or Lieutenant Colonel stood up after the singing of the national anthem and raising the flag and he said the lord jesus christ is the commander in chief of this army any man who takes the name of the lord jesus christ then is a traitor and i will treat him as such it is the lord jesus christ who determines whether you live and when you die. The victory doesn't go to the strong, but to the righteous. And if you are taking the Lord's name in vain, you're undermining the lives of all the men in your company and your battalion. And this is unacceptable. I will crush you to dust. I will grind you to powder. Nobody takes the Lord's name in vain. Well, as we came off the parade ground, a staff sergeant in charge of our particular platoon

started to swear and take the Lord's name in vain. He said, I don't bleep, bleep, bleep, care what any bleep, bleep, bleep commandant says about bleep, bleep, bleep the Lord Jesus Christ. And I went and I laid a charge against that staff sergeant, and he got stripped of his rank. He got drummed down to the ranks. The commandant was serious. You don't take the Lord's name in vain. If one stick of something considered vaguely

pornographic was found in any bungalow, the entire platoon was sent on a fuss bait, a 8.4-kilometer run with poles, drums, tires, massive tractor tires, you know, running. And this would be a normal punishment for, and of course, pass has been cancelled. People doing anything immoral, it was dealt with. I don't think you could imagine that happening in the US Army, but that's happened in the old South African army. And this is what Mandela fought against. And by the way, when Mandela came to power, there was a very insightful article in the London Times. London Times says, you must be sympathetic to poor Nelson

Mandela, because what he's dealing with is not just the legacy of apartheid. His real battle is against Calvinism. South Africa is the most Calvinist, reformed country on the planet, and this is what the real battle of Nelson Mandela is. It's against Calvinism. That's the London Times in England. So insightful. And that's exactly what he did. He started a wage war against Christianity from the first day he came to power. Wow, that's amazing. Now, you know, we see this today, and you talk about the march through the institutions, and you talk about tearing down the statues and the monuments to the past and erecting their principles, their leaders, and that type of thing. But I think the most telling of all this is as we're in the

middle of Pride Month here in America, we have a couple of different places. One of them in the southeast of the nation down in St. Petersburg, Florida. The other one is up in Washington State, Spokane, Washington, where they go in and paint rainbow murals on the street. And we've had teenagers in both places who I guess they are sick of having the LGBT doctrine rammed down their throat, left skid marks in both places. And they are all, three of them up in Washington and one of them down in St. Petersburg, they're all up for felony charges. They could get up to 10 years.

Isn't that amazing how we are marching through the institutions? And I think especially when I look at what is happening through the churches right now, there's a massive capitulation within the churches to LGBT. It's just you have to be embracing and inclusive. This idea of inclusivity is just eating its way through like termites in the Christian churches here in America. Yes, I understand that the whole LGBTQ is a key part of the Marxist strategy. They found a way to persecute Christians in Western countries because they've made such an idol of LGBTQ

that our freedom of speech in the past is gone. Our freedom of conscience, our freedom of religion, freedom of worship is shattered if it infringes on the lgbtq community that's right that's right and bear in mind lgbtq plus the plus includes pedophilia and yeah it's coming yeah which is the next step the point is if you speak out against these things because of christian conviction you've opened yourself up to persecution and it's only going to get worse they can't lock you up in the average western country for believing in god and believing in the bible but they have made it in such a way that if you offend somebody you could get locked up friends of mine in england got arrested in bristol for open air preaching now that's where george

whitfield launched the great evangelical awakening with open air preaching in bristol and you get people have gotten arrested in Hyde Park where you can say anything. I mean, you could stand up there and curse the queen when she's alive. And Hyde Park is a place of free speech. But if you offend some homo, some pervert, whatever, then the police arrest you. And there have been older people, grey-haired people, beaten up by thugs. And the police stand by doing nothing.

And in the end, they arrest the man who was beaten up, not the ones who assaulted him. Because he said some thought crime that hurt someone's feelings. We've got legislation in South Africa called the Hate Speech Bill, where it's not if you hurt someone, it's if you offend someone. Now, you may not have intended to offend a person, but if the other person feels offended by what you said, I mean, theoretically, it could be as simple as, well, you know, biologically, there's only two genders, or marriage can only be between a man and a woman, or Jesus said, I'm the way, the truth, and life. No one comes to Father but by me. Any of those statements might offend someone. And next thing, you can be guilty of a criminal charge for quoting what the Bible says or stating some fact of biological science. And this is where they're going. They start out saying we want tolerance. Well, they got tolerance, but then they didn't want

a tolerance. They wanted conformity and approval and applause. So it goes from tolerance to applause to conformity to you've got to fund it and we've got to be able to groom your children and your grandchildren and if you object, we will prosecute you. This is where it's going. This is just a new stick invented by the communists as a new way of persecuting Christians. And

Mandela saw this early on. He entrenched in the Southern Constitution, or I should say got still reimposed to entrench in the Constitution, the sexual orientation right. Now, this has never been in any constitution before. You might have a bill, but in the Constitution, you're right to any sexual orientation, which theoretically could be that a person's sexual orientation is pedophilia.

And now, if you oppose that, you could be guilty of infringing on that man's rights because of the way they phrased the Constitution. So these Marxists are quite clever, and it's no accident that many of the Marxist leaders that you know of are lawyers. I mean, we can start with Lincoln and Lenin, and of course in South Africa, Mandela, Oliver Tambu, Clintons, Obamas, all lawyers. You know what they say, 96% of lawyers give the rest a bad name.

But it's amazing how many Marxists are lawyers. They take the laws and they twist them in order to advance their agenda. And we need to get back to the principle that all law must be based upon God's law, or it is invalid and has no power. You laid out an interesting presentation of what life was like before the communists, what life was like even in the military. Give us an idea now that we're, what, 30 years on in all of this? Give us a sense of life in South Africa. I know that with Ramaphosa out there leading cries about kill the white man, kill the boar and things like that.

There's been a lot of talk about ginning up a race war. I think that's another component of what we see happening here in America. And then, of course, communists are all about seizing property. Where is all of this at this point in time? And why did the ANC lose this latest election? What is changing there? What I'm astounded is that anybody voted for them again. Now, you know, if you make a mistake, we're all human, we all make a mistake.

But if you make the same mistake twice, you're stupid. You make the same mistake three, four, five, six, seven times, you know, you shouldn't be allowed out of the home without adult supervision. And for anyone to vote for the ANC in the seventh election just boggles the brain because they have stolen, they've looted. So to give you a sense of how our country is, I used to use the postal service a lot. I mean, we had sent out thousands of unused letters around the world. I could, if I'm going on a speaking tour, I could send a box of books.

Five kilograms could be under five rand. And I mean, right now, a letter, one letter costs five rand. But the postal service has collapsed. We don't have a postal service in South Africa. The South African postal service, like every state-owned enterprise, has collapsed. We don't have post offices. Our post offices have closed. They've so looted the place. The South African Airways, which used to be consistently in the top 10, sometimes in the top one of the best airlines in the world, doesn't exist anymore. South African Airways, totally bankrupt, finished.

You can go to South African airports. There's no SAA cubicles. Don't see a South African Airways plane on the runway because they've bankrupted it. They've looted the place completely. And it's not that they were giving away free tickets. We paid a lot for it. And then before you knew it, they'd bankrupted the Airways.

Our ESCOM, the electricity supplier for the country, the electricity company, is so bankrupt, they've lost billions, hundreds of billions of rands lost, stolen by their leaders. So we have power failures. So the average day in South Africa can be two, four, six, even eight hours of power failure. Some parts of the country can get 12 hours of power failure a day, scheduled. Now, let me interject and say, is this traditional communist corruption that's destroying the energy infrastructure, or is this also combined with the green stuff that we see here in America? It is combined with the green stuff.

So to give you an example, the European Union paid a 6 billion euro bribe to the ANC government. 6 billion, not million, billion. And that was to stop coal production and to close down a lot of working coal plants that are providing energy for millions of people. They closed it down.

And just to show you for that bribe from the EU, do you know what's happened? Our coal is now being shipped to Europe, to the EU. So we've got our trains, and I've seen them, kilometres of trains coming in from our coal mines, going to the port cities, loading onto ships to go to Europe. So the EU has the audacity to have us close our coal mines, going to the port cities, loading onto ships to go to Europe. So the EU has the audacity to have us close our coal power plants and then to buy our coal in huge numbers.

They need coal because they're not getting the gas from Russia. And then, of course, sending it to China. They're allowed to build the dirtiest power plants that they want, and as many of them. I've always said that environmentalism is uh like a watermelon it's got a thin veneer of green and on the inside it's all marxism it's red yes so you used to get in communism used to get the order of lenin now you get to order the watermelon and i'd say gorbachev gets all the watermelon did you notice when gorbachev um was thrown out in russia

do you know what he did he came over and he took over the Presidium in San Francisco and opened up this Green Institution, what they called the Green Cross. And his Politburo that had been kicked out of power in the 17th moved over lock, stock and barrel and moved into running the Green Movement from San Francisco under Gorbachev. And then Gorbachev wrote the new Ten Commandments, as they called it, at Rio. Rio, what was it, 1992, was it? They had the Rio environmental thing.

Gorbachev was a key author of this. So the communists moved from running the Soviet Union to running the Green Movement in the West. Check it out. It's absolutely staggering. And now you get the order of the watermelon because the order of Lenin people have now moved into Green Movement because it's not about green energy.

It's about control. Through pretending to care about the environment, the people who destroyed the third largest sea in the world, the Ural Sea, were over-irrigating until the fishing villages were 100 kilometers from the shore. Because they over-irrigated and they drained the whole Ural Sea. The National Geographic documented this worst environmental disaster done under the Soviets. Only central planning by a communist party can cause environmental catastrophes on that level. You can imagine all the fish dead in the sea, whole fishing villages bankrupted.

What the Soviets could do, what they did with the Danube, with a massive dam they put in Hungary. I mean, that's another story. The communists have the worst pollution. They have the worst everything in terms of wrecking the environment. And yet, somehow, they're the ones that are running the green movements in the West. So we've seen this in South Africa. A lot of our communities are having to buy solar panels and so on.

And where do all the solar panels and batteries come from? Red China. So basically, we're bolstering the economy of Red China with a green charade and we are destroying our own economy and we're living in blackouts. So we live in blackouts. This means everybody in our country needs to have their own generators or solar panels and alternative source of energy. We call it bring your own infrastructure. We can't post letters anymore. We can't post books. One of my ministries was mailing books to people who ordered online with our mission. We can't mail the books anymore. We've got to go to print-on-demand e-books, and we can use courier companies, but that's a lot

more expensive, of course, than what the post office used to be. But that's upsetting us. Now, imagine if you're a restaurant owner. You've got food ready, and then a power failure comes in. And so the food's spoiled. You've lost the customer. You've lost the money. You've lost the food. So every restaurant now needs its own generator as well, and then you've got to buy the fuel for the generator.

And you've got to have all kinds of backups, or you can't operate. How can you operate any business in a competitive society unless you bring in infrastructure? Because provision of reliable electricity is the most basic thing needed in the economy. Yes, yes. And we're seeing that now in America, the people who, of course,

they have massive power requirements. So the people who are doing artificial intelligence, and that's a whole other category. But the people who are doing that, because it's so power hungry, they understand that the power grid here in America is being sabotaged. So they're starting their own line of power plants to serve themselves. They're going to provide their own power.

That's exactly what you're seeing at a smaller level. And, of course, the people who are in on the plan see this coming from a long ways off. And so they're talking about nuclear power plants for their AI computer centers that are there. Let's talk a little bit about your work as a missionary, what is happening in Africa. Mainly after you get out of South Africa and I guess Zimbabwe where the Marxists are, the rest of Africa is really kind of under the thumb of Islam, isn't it? Well, Islam controls one-third of Africa to the north. About 40% of the population of Africa are in Muslim-majority countries, and the top seven countries in Africa are Arabic-speaking and Islamic-majority. Egypt, Algeria, all those countries, Libya and so on, Mali, Mauritania,

these are Muslim countries. Somalia, 99% Muslim and so on. Central Africa's got quite a lot of communist activity, worse in Zimbabwe, but we've got other communist hellholes as well. And that's what started our mission. When I was in the South of Konami, I had a Bible study group that met every night for Bible study and prayer, and we had all-night prayer meetings and prayed our way through Operation Ward, and we saw the tremendous threat to us of communism and terrorism. And so the vision came to me very clearly, the communists are coming to us with hate

and with bombs. Have we ever gone to them with the gospel of Christ, with Bibles and with the love of Christ? And surely the best form of defense is attack and enemies coming to plant bombs in our roads and to kill our people surely we should be going to undermine them with the gospel and with evangelism and turn many of their people into bible believing evangelical christians and so frontline fellowship was born out of that vision and for the last 42 years i've been leading missions all over Africa, especially into communist countries and later Muslim countries, to evangelize.

And we took a high priority to evangelizing the anti-communist guerrillas, like UNITA, Freedom Fighters of Jonas Vimby in Angola, and the Renama anti-communist resistance movements in Mozambique. And if you just think of how America fought in Vietnam, and you left many years ago, 1975, but you left behind the Montagnards, well-trained by the Green Berets, who continue to resist the communists in Vietnam and Cambodia for decades to come. And so I see, if you think of the goal of special forces, you work behind enemy lines, and then you not only work behind enemy lines, but you leave behind special forces who will continue to fight the enemy, many of whom are ex-communists themselves. So I took a high priority to training UNITA freedom fighters and RENOMO

anti-communist guerrillas in the gospel, training chaplains, and leading them with chaplains' handbooks and Bibles and evangelism, Jesus film, outreach, and so on. And these people continue to stay and to fight against communists when we come home. And so we've got anti-communist resistance movements strengthened by the gospel all over Africa. In Sudan, I found the SPLA, the Sudanese People's Liberation Army, with a Marxist background, and we turned the whole revolutionary movement of the Sudanese People's Liberation Army into a Christian movement. They got rid of the commissars, the bought-in chaplains.

We distributed Bibles. We did evangelism. And right up to the top people, their leaders, we convinced them that the best thing was to make peace with God, to make peace for the Christian population of their nation, and to stop fighting God, and rather to submit to God. And that'll be the best way to get freedom for the country. And it was so successful that South Sudan is now a free and independent country. It seceded successfully from Arabic-Islamic Sudan, seceded from the Sharia law. 9th of July 2011, South Sudan became the youngest country in the world. And that's just one of our success stories. Mozambique, which was a communist country,

where we had to smuggle in Bibles in 1982 when I started our work, today it's open for the gospel. It's easy to start a Christian school, church, very little red tape, and the government's even given back hundreds of churches that they'd confiscated and closed back to the church and schools. And so we've seen tremendous success. Angola, which used to be a communist country, banned the Bible, burned churches, today wide open for the gospel.

So our mission's seen, and of course the greatest success of all, you could say, is Eastern Europe, which had once been communist satellites of the Soviet Union. We smuggled in Bibles, we did radio broadcasts, we did leadership training, underground leadership training courses like the School like the school of the prophets which grew into being the biggest christian university in europe emmanuel university in iradia in romania now and that started as an illegal night school during the communist persecution and these are just some of the examples of answers to prayer and the power of the gospel to transform lives so right now we've

got a whole program called the gospel for Guerrillas, Tracks for Terrorists, you know, transform terrorists into evangelists. Think of the persecuted church, Saul became the apostle missionary of the church, Paul. And so God can take enemies and turn them into his own evangelists. And there's nothing like the zeal of a convert. And I was brought up in a secular family. From the day I was converted, I've now been called to missions. But to evangelize terrorists, and I've gone and I've preached to terrorists,

I've been their basis. I've evangelized Muslims who were terrorists. I've evangelized communists who were terrorists. And I've seen some of them won over where now they are evangelists. And instead of whipping up more wars and sending in the Marines, I think we should be sending in the missionaries. Instead of bombing the people, I think we should bombard them with Bibles and with prayer. And I believe there's no political solution to Christ in the Middle East. I believe the only solution is spiritual.

We need to get into the Middle East and evangelize them. So amongst the examples you can find, there's a book out called Son of Hamas, where the son of the founder of Hamas is actually speaking out against Hamas. And if you've seen the books of Mark Gabriel, Mark Gabriel was an Egyptian Arab Muslim who was a son of an imam who was teaching as a professor in Cairo University. He was training the people in Islam, Islamic history and the Quran. And through the witness, the faithful witness of a Coptic Christian pharmacist, he came to Christ.

And he was arrested. He was tortured by the police in Egypt for being a convert, an apostate from Islam, in other words. He fled overland all the way to South Africa, got more training in South Africa. I think he now lives in Canada. And Mark Gabriel has written books comparing Muhammad with Jesus, comparing Christianity with Islam, and helping people to understand the mind of Islamic terrorists.

Now, there's an example of how it's better to transform a person from being a terrorist or somebody who supports terrorism or is the ideology behind it to being an evangelist. In Rhodesia, where I grew up, there's a's a man, Nabezinghi Muzza, who's now past the Nabezinghi Muzza. He was a Zoghbi terrorist, Zimbabwe African People's Union, Soviet-backed, Soviet training, and he was sent to assassinate an evangelist in Harare town township outside uh salisbury during the war and he never gave the order because he got so entranced in what the evangelist was saying i was told when you preach you should preach like your life depended on it like you were dying like this would be the last time you preach or the last time you're here is will hear you well that evangelist

saved his life by preaching so well that uh Musa didn't give the order for attack. And his men came to him afterwards confused, and he said, Go home, I'll speak to you later. And he went to the evangelist, gave his life to the Lord, and he went into theological training. He became a pastor. I was having supper with him one time, and we were in a buffet at a hotel, and I said, You know, you've passed the meat.

Don't you want to get any meat? And he said, No, it reminds me too much of I used to eat people. I mean, I was having supper with a cannibal. But you know, now he's an abstinent cannibal and quite an extraordinary experience. I know so many people like this. Yeah. God can change anybody. I love what you're saying because I keep saying to people, you know, we're not going to have reform in this country unless we get right with God. And that really is the path. You want to have asymmetric warfare? And the church is called not to be on defense, but to be on offense.

I love that. Now, let me ask you, you said you met with a group of terrorists. How do you get into that group of terrorists? Was there somebody that introduced you and brought you in? How did you get into this group of terrorists? Was there somebody that introduced you and brought you in? How did you get into this group to evangelize it? Well, let me give you my first example. Back in 1982, I bought my motorbikes and left South Konami, off-road motorbike, loaded up with World Mystery Press gospel booklets,

got the Jesus form, and I rode into Maputo, and I stood in the street corner saying, hello, hello, hello. And after a while, somebody said hello back, and I rode into Maputo, and I stood in the street corner saying, hello, hello, hello. And after a while, somebody said, hello, back, and I turned, I said, are you a Christian? He said, hallelujah, and I said, praise the Lord, and he said, hallelujah, and we stood there so excited, and he said, do you have a place to stay? You must stay in my home tonight. Well, we had no plan. This is our accommodation. Do you have a translator? I speak Ronga, Tonga, Tsuaua and Chang'an Portuguese fluently. You've got the job. And the next day

he gathered together a whole lot of underground church people and we talked about hundreds of people in a burned out, bombed out church. Communist slogans on the walls, bullet holes on the walls blood on the floor place being stripped and just a few wires hanging out of

the walls where there used to be plugs. And I had an evangelistic rally with them there. 14-hour service just carried on. People were just so excited. The first visit we've had since the revolution. And then I'd have the Jesus fall. Now, interestingly, just that first time, to show you how bizarre everything was, I told them I bought the Jesus fall.

And people got so excited about that. And then I said, do you know where I can borrow a projector? And it all got deflated. Like, is he out of his mind? He comes to Mozambique, he doesn't have a projector. How's he going to show the film? Well, afterwards, a man came up to me and said, I work at the British Embassy.

They've got a projector. Come to the corner of Vladimir Lenin and Mao Tse-Tung Street tomorrow, and I'll introduce you to the consulate. And so I went to the consulate, explained, you know, I'm a British citizen, because my father fought all six years of the Second World War in the Royal Artillery, and they told me I have a British passport, even though I've never lived in Britain. So I showed them my British passport and said, may I borrow your 16mm projector? I'm a British missionary working in Mozambique.

I brought a film, but I don't have a projector. I couldn't afford a projector back then, actually. I'd just come out of the army. I'd put all my money into getting the film and getting the Bibles we needed. So I couldn't afford a projector. So talk about a faith mission. And the consular said, you're welcome to borrow my projector.

But he said, I need to warn you, there's power failures most of the time. We only get electricity about once a week. I said, well, we'll have to pray about that. So I set up in the church, and I've got to take the plug off with a Phillips screwdriver and then twist the wires together, trying not to electrocute myself, which isn't difficult because there's no power, and then pray for the lights to come on. Well, that night, that first night, and then pray for the lights to come on. Well, that night, that first night, believe it or not, the power came on.

So I could show the Jesus film, and just as we're in the crucifixion scene, the power goes off. I thought, that's not bad. They've got most of the film. I sat up and I preached, and as I was preaching on the cross of Christ, the lights come back on. So I'm able to continue. We finished the resurrection scene, Great Commission,

and then the film was over. I could preach no more. And while I'm preaching in the pitch dark, I see soldiers and camouflage coming to the front carrying the AK-47s, and I thought, I'm about to get arrested. No, they knelt on the floor. They put their AK-47s on the ground. They knelt down, and they said, we want to give our lives to Christ. And I was able to lead communists to Christ

on my first mission to Mozambique. I've baptized communists. I've had Bible studies. Now, some of them will invite you to come to their next place, or I'd have, can you show the film at our camp? I'd go to a camp, and I'd crank up the generator, and when we were a bit more organized later, we actually brought our own generators along,

and we could show the Jesus film in the communist camps. I've shown the Jesus film in camps of communists in Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Angola, absolutely magnificent, even to Arabs in Sudan. I was driving in Harare in the embassy lane, and I saw an embassy to the Palestinian Liberation Organization. So I quickly stopped and turned into the embassy and asked to speak to the head of the PLO there in Harare. So this is like a terrorist training camp in an embassy, or it used to be an embassy

and now it's an embassy for the PLO terrorists in Harare. And, you know, I got in there and I started to, I said, I'm a theological student, which at that stage I was, and I'm interested in learning about Islam, which is also true because I've specialized in Islam. And so we sat down and they started to explain Islam, and they were saying, but Islam isn't the only motivation to PLO. The PLO has Christians as well. And anyway, I found it hard to believe, but in talking to them,

and they were saying, you know, we believe in full religious freedom. I said, I'm so glad to hear that. I've got the jesus film can i show it to you and this chap looks a bit like what i say wrong and we went out there and we showed the film and these you could see some of the muslims were quite agitated but you know they just proclaimed the religious freedom and so okay i didn't get a second chance, but I did get away with it at that time. And things like this. There was a time I was preaching to a group of, I call them gooks, the Zimbabwe National Army on an observation post overlooking Mutari in the eastern hounds of Zimbabwe. And on the way out, we were intercepted. Somebody had complained that I was preaching, and on

the way down, the CIO, Central Intelligence Organization, they're like the KGB of Zimbabwe, they blocked the road, they caught us, ambushed us, and I was taken off to interrogation. And when I say interrogation, I mean, took into a room that looked like a hardware store, table full of all kinds of pliers and other tools, and sat in an armchair, which had leather straps for the arms and for the feet and there's a battery in the corner with crocodile clips and wires so you know the only way you're going to be charged is with electricity and they're not depending on Zimbabwe electricity they've got their own battery there and I mean it's literally shocking so I'm sitting down there

and um they said what are you teaching I'm in So I started to relate the gospel. No, no, no, stop. Why have you come to Zimbabwe? So I related my testimony. And I tell you, these men started to shuffle, scratch the back of their heads, shuffle their feet and look at their fingernails and getting awkward. And the one man said, my mother's very religious. Another one said, my sister's religious. And before you knew it, the whole atmosphere changed.

I'm talking about these bloodthirsty, callous torturers, the CO. They came with a conviction of sin. And, you know, in a time like that, you really feel an unction from on high to preach like you've never preached before, because your life literally and your fingernails depends on it. So I proclaimed the gospel to him. And literally within the hour, I was driving out to the driveway, giving back my vehicle and keys, and these men are standing with their Bibles and Shauna under their arms waving goodbye. And that actually happened. In fact,

I've written a whole book on this sort of thing, Frontline Behind Me, Lines for Christ on our 42 years of evangelism. These are just some of the evangelisms amongst terrorists. Over 440 pictures. I've got testimony of opportunities to preach to communists, terrorists, revolutionaries, militants, radicals, rioters. We've had times when people have been shaking boxes, matches in our faces saying, I'm going to necklace you,

we're going to burn you alive, and things like this. But we have persevered, and God's given grace, wisdom, strength. I'm convinced missionaries can do far more for the security of our nations by evangelizing enemies than we can by going there, bombing them, and radicalizing more people and winning them more recruits.

Oh, I absolutely agree. I love what you're doing, and what it reminds me of is that certainly in your life, you were not ashamed of the gospel of Christ. I think that is the biggest problem with the American church. People have been so browbeat about all this. Oh, we've got to be nice to everybody. We have to meet them where they are and all the rest of the stuff. No, you just need to say it, not in a mean way necessarily, but you just simply declare the truth. And that is the key thing. And that's what Americans are afraid to do to the man. They've been shamed into silence. We've been shamed into the closet. While every kind of perversity is parading in the street here in the middle of Pride Month. We are ashamed to say anything about that.

And not necessarily in a condemning way, but, you know, to put out the gospel of Christ and sometimes call sin what it is. And that's what you have done, is to give people the gospel, to give them a hope in an area where they have no hope. You know, for all these guys who are terrorists, all these guys who are torturing people, I mean, it's just, for them, how are they going to know that tomorrow they won't be the ones that are sitting in the chair and having their fingernails pulled out? In fact, I point this out. I've designed a whole track specifically for terrorists, pointing out that every revolution is cannibalistic. They end up killing their own.

Yes. And just think of, who is the hero of the revolution in Soviet Union? Leon Trotsky, and he literally got axed by order of strong. He got an ice pick in the head. He's buried in Mexico City. And this is what happens, you know, like an animal farm snowball, the hero of the revolution gets killed by the dogs who sit on him by Napoleon. And this is the way it goes.

In Zimbabwe, the leader of the revolution, Josiah Tongaro, the head of the Zimbabwe African Union Liberation Army, he gets murdered on Christmas Eve in Zimbabwe and opens the door to Mugabe becoming the first leader of Zimbabwe. And in South Africa, the leader of the Communist Party was Chris Haney, who gets murdered just the year before to enable not just Mandela to become president, because Chris Haney was very charismatic, a good speaker. I've debated him in public too.

But to allow Thabo Mbeki and Jacob Zuma to become the first successors to Mandela, Chris Haney would have been a shoo-in, and he is so liked, so charismatic, and he was the most powerful man, being the head of the Communist Party, head of the Umkuntzwi-Sizwi, which is the armed wing, the terrorist wing of the ANC. And so his assassination, which

many in the ANC, including William Mandela, say was an inside job, done by the ANC to get rid of him because he's too popular. Eduardo Mandlani was the founder of the Filimo Communist Party in Mozambique. The main street in Mapuche is named the Eduardo Manlani Avenue, Boulevard Eduardo Manlani. Well, he was murdered so that Samoa Michelle could take his place. And so it carries on. Every revolution,

you can see the revolutions are cannibalistic. Do you know that Mao Zedong in 1968, 1966, began the Cultural Revolution by arresting the president of Red China and the head of the army? They were a troika. He was the chairman. The president and the head of the army of Red China were accused of treason. I mean, how is that even possible? And Mao Zedong seizes power and eliminates millions of people. And this is typical of communists. The second phase of the revolution, they always end up killing the revolutionaries like Stalin's show trials. He killed off the veterans of the Baltic Revolution. You see, people who do a revolution cannot be trusted because when you fail to fulfill your promises, they know how to overthrow a government, they're going to overthrow you.

So the first people to get in the neck, literally, is the vanguard of the revolution. The vanguard of the revolution gets slaughtered in the second phase of the revolution. So I share these facts with the communists, and when they realize it, they start to understand, you know, like Moise Chombe of Congo as well. You know, he gets wiped out. The communists had a university training terrorist in Moscow called the Patrice Lumumba University. Patrice Lumumba was the leader of the communist revolution, and he was murdered by his own in the Congo.

And this is absolutely typical. When the people realize, you realize they're just using you like a pawn, and you're going to be sacrificed for the good of the revolution soon. You start to get them realizing, you know, it's true. And when they understand the history and understand where this is going, many of these people are willing to turn. And many ex-communists have ended up being the best anti-communists, and they've been the best fighters in Renamo, the anti-communist resistance in Mozambique,

or the UNITA anti-communist resistance in Angola. And so it is. When people understand how communists work, they get to realize they're going to shoot me in the back of the neck as well. Yes. I've got to get out now and be part of the resistance. Because if I stay, my days are numbered. And so there are ways to persuade the communists. And when they get to understand

that you understand history, that also helps. I've had this before. When I was arrested in Mozambique in 1989, I was thrown in prison there, and quite an experience. There was a Machava security prison in Maputo, and I wake up to a horrible smell,

and I feel something on my face, and I'm lying on a concrete floor, and there's a rat just about to start nibbling my nose in a smelt like he's come from the sewers, which he had, I'm sure. And there was a hole under the door that rats could get in and out. And so right there I knew what I was in. Well, later that day they came for me for interrogation. I'm dragged.

They never let you walk. They dragged me down the hallway, a guard on each side, into, again, another one of these interrogation rooms. It looked like a hardware store. And the man behind the table said, I am the devil. And I said, you're not the devil. And he says, oh, I'm the devil. I'm not only a Marxist and a Leninist.

I'm a Stalinist. I was trained in Czechoslovakia. And he says, oh, I'm the devil. I'm not only a Marxist and a Leninist. I'm a Stalinist. I was trained in Czechoslovakia. So I respond, well, I'm a Christian. And he spat out, I hate Christians. But I mean, he spat it out with such venom. And how do you respond to that? Well, he then started to berate me for the evils of communism, of evils of Christianity.

And then he said, you know, Jesus Christ was the first communist. Jesus Christ taught from all according to his ability to each according to his need. So you're sure that Jesus Christ, it sounds like Karl Marx. Where in the Bible did he get this? And then he carried on with, no, the first Christians were the first communists. In fact, anyone who refused to share their property was killed. And, you know, we are just enforcing what you read in the book of Acts, he says. So I said, well, if you read the book of Acts, you see, Ananias and Sapphira were not killed by the apostles.

They were struck dead by God himself. No human hand touched them because they lied to the Holy Spirit. And it was not that they weren't willing to share their property. It was that they lied and that they'd not lied just to man, they'd lied to God, to the Holy Spirit. And anyway, I then went on and said, if Jesus Christ was the first communist, and if the early church were the practice of communism, why do you ban Bibles? Why is it that I've got to smuggle Bibles in, and why do Bibles get burned? If this was true, you'd want to promote Bibles. And the man started to give me

a lecture on how evil capitalism was, and he gave a tirade against Margaret Thatcher, who was Prime Minister in Britain at that stage. So I then gave a lecture about the French Revolution and explaining how secular humanism, Roche and Voltaire, how they brought about a collapse of good standards for the poor and how the poor always benefit from Christianity and how the poor get poorer and are more oppressed under communism. And then the man gave me a lecture on dialectic materialism, and so I thought I can swap lectures all day. I love history.

Much better than getting your fingernails ripped out and being electrocuted. I gave him a lecture on the Reformation. We went backwards and forwards about these things, I gave him a lecture on the Reformation. We went backwards and forwards about these things, and at the end he declared the interview over. It's been six hours looking at the clock on the wall. And it just shows if you know your history, you can engage communists. And communists love arguing politics and history and economics. So when you know that, it's much better.

You'll keep your fingernails. You'll keep your... I'm much happier to debate the communists, and they're normally happy to debate. But if you don't have anything intelligent to say, they'll start torturing you. I mean, seriously, that's what happens. Wow. Well, what about when you go to Islam? How does it...

You described your situation with the communists and how they like to debate history and politics and maybe even religion. What about Islam when you've had encounters that well islam loves discussing religion so again you've got to know the quran and i learned the quran not only from christians who worked amongst muslims i went into the mosques and i asked the muslims to train me i went to islamic propagation center had them explain the quran and the first day i didn't even ask any questions except to clarify things. And I learned a Muslim's perspective in Islam, which is different from a Christian like me explaining Islam to you.

And so that was very helpful. So I first made sure I understood Islam pretty well. Then I went to the very experienced man, on door-to-door evangelism in Muslim areas. He taught me how to reach Muslims well. And so what I've done is sometimes gone into mosques and asked the imam if we could have a debate on Islam and Christianity, or comparing Jesus and Muhammad, or the Quran and the Bible,

or how can we know that our sins are forgiven? How are your sins forgiven in Islam? How can you be right with God? How can you know you our sins are forgiven? How are your sins forgiven in Islam? How can you be right to God? How can you know you're going to paradise? And we discuss things like this. Sometimes we'll discuss, was Jesus crucified? Did Jesus rise from the dead? Those are good debating subjects.

So debates and discussions always help. Meeting people in homes, they're willing to let you in normally. I can go to the Malay quarter where it's 110 Muslim and mosques all over the place. And you come and knock on the door. I'd like to talk to you, but I'm a Christian. I'd like to talk to you about Islam and Christianity. Would you be interested in discussion? They often invite you in, give you tea, coffee, sit down and have a discussion.

We've even organized Bible studies in mosques, where we come and we say, okay, what does the Quran teach about this subject? And they'll explain what the Quran teaches on that subject. And then we'll explain what the Bible says about that subject. Then they'll explain what the Quran says about another subject. And so you've got, basically, it's an objective, constructive discussion. This is to understand one another. You tell me what the Quran teaches on sin, man, God, heaven, hell, salvation,

so on, I'll tell you what the Bible does. And interesting discussions come out of it. And we've had people coming to us saying, you know, I'm from Saudi Arabia. This is illegal in Saudi Arabia. And they're so excited when you give them a Bible and they're like, can I have this? You know, this is illegal in my country. And they've got all excited if somebody's been given something that's suppressed and illegal.

And I find the more from a hardcore Muslim country they come, the more open they are to the gospel. When in another country, obviously in their own country, they wouldn't be able to do that. And so we have debates, we have discussions, and we meet people in the homes and if as long as you can talk intelligently and it's obviously understand islam and we can get quite far and i've got friends who used to be muslims who've been converted to christ and it's it's wonderful and people from pakistan people from iraq people from syria people from saudi arabia and egypt we've got a whole bible college going up in northern Africa in an Arabic-speaking North African country,

which is part of our William Carey Bible Institute. And we've got 13 students who came from a Muslim background, what we call a Muslim background believer, or MBB. And it's just wonderful. We had a while ago when we had six graduates, finished the three-year program, and we had a graduation service. It was totally illegal, underground, and secret,

but we were able to, through web platforms, able to have me still give a presentation at the graduation service remotely. And these people came from unreached people where it's totally illegal. And this was all done in a country where this would be completely illegal. Muslims are coming to Christ, and it's exciting. I guess that's the thing that surprises me is that you would be able, because is it different parts of Islam? Because we look at it as monolithic, but of course you've got the Shia,

and you've got the Abbas, and the Sunnis, and all all the rest of the stuff there's a lot of different flavors of that uh is that uh why and some of these now you mentioned that you're still having to do some things underground but i guess in some of these areas maybe that's why the imam would be open to debate or uh is it just because they're somebody that's from another country and they're not being watched or it's all of those things and so what you find is a muslim imam wants to win a christian to islam and so this would be a great status symbol if he could if he could persuade me to become muslim now he's convinced islam is right i know that christians are but the fact that willing to and we say okay let's make this even you You explain what the Quran says, I'll explain what the Bible says. Now he's convinced he's going to win you over.

So his goal is to evangelize me for Islam, Dawah. And my goal is to share the gospel with him. And we know that actually, ultimately, it's not a decision. This is something the Lord does. And there's some good tools. One of them is

More Than Dreams. And More Than Dreams has five Muslim conversions, true stories, done in a recreated form, method showing actual testimonies of Muslims, how they came to Christ. I've got some booklets as well about how people came to Christ from Islam. And if you go to the people in a way of them being interested in a discussion, and hopefully when you go to Islam, that's why I often portray myself as,

I'm a theological student and I'm a student of Islam. I'm interested in learning about Islam. Would you help answer my questions? And, of course, many of my questions are going to cause doubts in their mind too, like how do you prepare your heart for prayer? And they happily tell you how they wash their hands and their ears and their nose and they clean their feet and so on.

And yes, but how do you clean your heart? I find it very hard to prepare my, how do you wash your mind? And they get confused. And you ask questions such as, what can you tell me to convince me that the Quran is the word of God? And it's because Muhammad said it is.

And how do I know that Muhammad is a true prophet of God? Well, because the Quran says he is. Well, isn't that the circular reason? I mean, how can I know the Quran is the word of God? And are there any prophecies in the Quran about events far ahead? Tell them about some of the prophecies in the Bible. And then I've spoken to some of the top Muslim

evangelists in the world, or debaters like Ahmad Didach, who was he's written scores of books, printed millions of copies. He's the founder of the Islamic Propagation Center National. So Ahmad Didach debating him and he's filming this at the same time, sir. What prophecies are in the Quran?

Well, Muhammad prophesied that the Roman Empire would fall. But the Roman Empire fell before Muhammad was born. That's all history, that's not prophecy. And what miracles did Muhammad do? And, well, let me go back to the first question. And what miracles did Muhammad do? Well, let me go back to the first question. How do I know that Muhammad is a prophet of God? Dead serious, this is the answer.

He had a gap between his front teeth, and he had a mole. And this apparently, I think the mole was on his back, actually. So, you know, some dermatological problem and some dental problem, and that proves he's a prophet of God. Seriously, that's what he gave. Was there any miracles that Muhammad did, any prophecies he gave? Well, in fact, there was, according to Ahmad Ibn al-Din. I mean, remember, he's the top Islamic author.

He's the founder of the Zillow Propagation Center National. When Muhammad was fleeing the soldiers of Mecca, he hid in a cave and a spider spun a web over the cave mouth. And when the soldiers came past, they said, well, you can't be in there. And they went on. They said, that's it? A spider's web? I mean, that's the strongest you've got? And I mean, that's the answer he gave. Well, of course, I could say a lot more about how Jesus, from the Quran, the Quran acknowledges Jesus was born a virgin, he is holy, sinless, perfect. Here's the word of God, here's the Messiah. The Quran says this, like a quote from the chapter and verse on the shore is about that.

And Jesus has ascended into heaven, he's coming again to judge the living and dead. What other prophets can he say this of? And you know, just comparing Jesus with any other prophet already convinces. So we lay some foundations like this and discussions. And, you know, I make it sound easy, but of course it's hard because there's interruptions and they always want to say what they want to say before they listen to you. So you've got to listen to them first, ask questions. But I find asking probing questions do help.

How can you know for sure that you're going to paradise? Well, of course, there's only one way a Muslim can know for sure that he's going to paradise, if he dies in jihad, killing the infidel. But they can't say that to you. I mean, Muhammad himself said he didn't know what Allah would do with him on the Day of Judgment. So you ask them, how can you know for sure that you'll enter paradise? And, I don't know.

How can Allah forgive your sins? And you know the answer God found out about Amadou? Three times he raised his shoulders and his arms, hands up straight. And of course, as you mentioned, they'll say that Jesus was a virgin birth, the prophet of God, the Messiah, and all the rest is coming back, and yet they deny the cross, right? And so they deny the payment for sin. So, you know, how do they respond with that issue? Were their arms up?

Well, they deny the crucifixion of Christ based on an interpretation of one surah. There's one verse that says that Nabi Isa was not crucified, although it was made to appear so to them. Now that's just one surah written by somebody who was not an eyewitness hundreds of years later. And yet there's so many surahs in the Quran that authenticate that the Bible is the word of God, and that you mustn't dispute with the people of the book, and that the words of Allah cannot be lost or changed or corrupted, that Allah's words endure forever. So on this basis, I'm able to make a strong case that the Quran claims to be built on the Bible.

The Quran claims to be an authentication and a confirmation of the Bible. And Muhammad claims to be the last prophet, and he's confirming what all the other prophets said, including Mabee Esa, the prophet Jesus. So they're on the end of a branch, and they can't saw off the branch on the inside. The Bible does not depend on the Quran, but the Quran does depend on the Bible. We need to build on that, because the Muslim cannot deny Jesus. He is a prophet of Islam. They must respect him. In fact, when they say Nabi Isa, they must add, Peace be upon him, like they do about Muhammad. They might forget, but we can remind them, because he is illustrious in this world and in the hereafter. And he is a sign for the nations, for all nations.

Ahmad Edad would like to say, well, Jesus was a prophet to the Jews, but Muhammad is a prophet to all nations. But the Quran states that Jesus is a sign to all the nations. And so they cannot actually deny Jesus. Even just knowing the Quran is enough to make them see that Jesus, or Nabi Isa, as they call him, the prophet Jesus, is not to be compared with any other, and he is perfect. Now, even using the Quran, I can lead them to points of seeing Jesus as more important than Muhammad.

Do you know that Muhammad is mentioned four times in the Quran? Only four times. Jesus, by the name of Nabi Isa, is mentioned over 80 times in the Quran. In fact, Mary is mentioned vastly more times than Muhammad as well. And so already you can see from the Quran itself the importance of Jesus and his mother, and that Muhammad is not a major emphasis of the Quran. Now you get more on Muhammad, of course, in the Hadith, but the Hadith is not as authenticated as the Quran.

The Quran is Allah's words to us according to them. And the Hadith is the teachings and the actions of Muhammad, mentioned by his followers. So the Hadith is secondary to the Quran. And we've gotten quite far with that. I thought being white and Western, and it's kind of obvious, my complexion gives me away, that this would be a stumbling block to me evangelizing. But actually it's not.

In many ways it creates interest. And I've found, even with the black people and with the Arab people, I'm a bit of an anomaly, a bit of a status symbol. They've got this foreigner, this guest, and they like to invite me in. And one thing we find that always works for Muslims, if you want to get an opening, is, can I pray for you? Is there anything that you need prayer for? And, you know, a person who says they know prayers to Muhammad haven't healed anyone.

But many of them have great faith that Nabi Isa, Prophet Jesus, he can heal. I mean, there's no evidence anywhere that Muhammad healed anyone, but Jesus healed many people. And they know that even from the Quran. Now, when we come along and we say, can I pray for you, whether it's in a home or something, Muslims always come up with things that they need prayer for. Now you pray, and when the prayer is answered, you can imagine how this really opens up people's hearts. And people's children have been healed from sickness. People have experienced all kinds of answers to prayer in the name of Jesus.

And therefore, that's something. This is something you see in the frontiers of gospel work. I wouldn't advise this normally, but Mark 16 speaks about when we work for God, he works along with us, and he will confirm the word with signs following. And so remember remember every promise in the bible every command in the bible comes with a promise and so when the lord says i'll be with you always it's in the context of go into all the world make disciples of all nations and the lord breathed in them and said receive the holy spirit you will be my witnesses in jerusalem

and judea and samaria and that's what's the earth when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. So the power is promised when we are fulfilling the Great Commission. I've seen miraculous healings. And I was in the Nuba Mountains of Sudan when I got stung by a scorpion. It was a little luminous, almost colorless scorpion with massive tail and small clippers. Those are the most deadly. And my left hand was poisoned, stung by the scorpion, and I could feel a poison working up my arm, heading towards my heart. Wow.

And there was nothing for it except to call for the elders to pray for me. So Christians and missionary co-workers gathered around and prayed for me, and I felt the poison going down my arm and out through my fingertips. And the local Muslim sought, and they saw the scorpion, you know. He was stung by the scorpion, and that's a deadly scorpion, not the dark scorpion with the big clippers and the small tail. This is the light-colored scorpions, almost transparent scorpions with the big tail. They're the deadly ones. And they could see what the Bible says, that they'll be strung

by scorpions and bit by snakes, and it will not harm them. Well, we don't believe in doing this on a stage. We're not like those cults where they might play with snakes and things like this. But in the actual course of God's work, and these things happen, the Lord has promised to intervene. And so in ministry, in the frontiers of missions amongst unreached people's groups, I've seen answers to prayer. So I'm not a signs and wonders person. I believe the Bible is our authority, totally.

But miracles happen in pioneer missions. Oh, yeah. I've heard that many times. I'm not a signs and miracles person either. But, yes, I've heard many, many reports of that. As you said, on the frontline missions. It truly is amazing. I could go on forever with you. We're going to split this into two different, uh, two different interviews here. Uh, tell people where they can find out about what you're doing or frontline missions, sa.org. And, um, where is that the best place for them?

Finding you've got so many different websites. I think you've got like 10 of them here. Uh, we'll put them in the, um, the best one is the best one is frontline mission. It's a front line mission. It's a dog on the back of our book. Okay. Frontline mission is a, is a short for Seneca says not missions. It's frontline mission is a dot O R G. And, um, you'll find us on Facebook as well, Frontline Fellowship with a badge,

the Sword to Word in Africa. You can see the Sword to Word in Africa up above me. That's our missions badge, the one with the shields on the wall. And we've been going 42 years. You can email me at peter at frontline.org.za, peter at frontline.org.za. That's my personal email. And you'll also see I'm busy on Facebook as well. We've got a bookshop.

We provide a lot of our books by email. We've got e-books. We've got print-on-demand. So even if our personal service isn't behaving itself, we've still got ways of getting the materials to people. We send out emails. We send out audiovisuals. On the FrontlineMissionSA.org website, there's audiovisuals,

presentations, transforming terrorists into evangelists. We've got on how to resist Marxist bullying tactics, exposing the whole cancel culture movement, which is nothing but cancel Christianity. That's the whole goal. Cancel culture is communism, and its goal is to cancel Christianity. That that's the only thing that makes sense of the whole agenda that's right and of course i've lived through several revolutions so i've worked in 38 countries i've traveled in 42 countries i've worked in 38 countries including eight wars i've gone through three revolutions i've been imprisoned multiple times uh in communist countries and arrested in Muslim countries as well.

And I've got the stories in my book, Frontline Behind Enemy Lies for Christ. We've got audio visuals on our website and articles on many of these issues that we're dealing with, videos that people can see. I hope to produce Sudan-Hidden Holocaust and Terrorism and Persecution films, which expose a lot of what is going on in the field. And you can see videos on our website that even show some of the imprisonments and some of the announcements on the news broadcast about our imprisonments and testimonies of some of the combat that we're involved in at first. So that's all available on the FrontlineMissionSA.org website.

I'd love to hear from some of the listeners and viewers. Yes. And so you're buying workers. I'm sorry, what? We always need workers. We need volunteers. And if people are interested in short-term ministry or long-term ministry and would like to come and volunteer their time,

we have training programs here like the Great Commission course and enable people to learn Muslim evangelism firsthand in a peaceful area like Cape Town, where it's legal, before we attempt to send anyone out. But we're in a port city that's cosmopolitan, and people can practice evangelism here. So we use Cape Town as our training base for the Great Commission course, have the people hiking up and down Table Mountain and getting fit, night hikes, Bible smuggling drills in the forest at night.

We've got hunter teams, and we've got smuggling teams. And if people are interested in ministering in restricted access areas, we've got the experience of 42 years. We'd love to train more people because I believe this is the way we will fulfill the Great Commission. I agree. And we'll defeat the enemies is by getting into these areas and winning these people to Christ.

And many are wide open and hungry and disillusioned. And the gospel is powerful. In fact, as I heard in Sudan, a man said after he got bombed, the Bibles of the Christians are more powerful than the bombs of the Muslims. And it's true. Yes, that's amazing. Now, let me just repeat one more thing. Your book that's about your life experiences there,

Frontlines Behind Enemy Lines for Christ. Lines Behind Enemy Lines for Christ. Front Lines Behind Enemy Lines for Christ. Yeah, this is also print-on-demand, an e-book. Okay, good. That picture on the front is me in the Nuba Mountains, but you've got 440 pictures, and it's a very well-illustrated book with thoughts of what's going on in the field.

So, you know, if people are interested, this will give them an insight into what goes on in these areas. Well, I'm definitely interested. I'm definitely interested. I'm going to have to find out. Yes. Thank you so much. It is fantastic talking to you again. Frontlinemissionsa.org, and that'll be kind of your entry point there. We'll have some of these links in the videos when we put them up as well. So thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Peter Hammond. I appreciate it. It's been amazing to talk to you.

Thank you so much. Thank you, David. I appreciate the opportunity. God bless America. Thank you. God bless you. The David Knight Show is a critical thinking super spreader. If you've been exposed to logic by listening to The David Knight Show, please do your part and try not to spread it.

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