The David Pakman Show - 10/21/25: Anger is building as White House demolition begins

Episode Date: October 21, 2025

-- On the Show: -- Abigail Spanberger, Democratic Nominee for Governor of Virginia, joins us to discuss her race against Republican Winsome Earle-Sears on November 4th -- Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson calls for a nationwide general strike as millions rally under the “No Kings” banner demanding collective power and accountability -- Donald Trump secretly begins demolishing parts of the White House to build a $250 million ballroom, bypassing oversight and sparking outrage over his disregard for history -- New analysis shows New England and New York could thrive independently as one of the richest nations, exposing red‑state dependence on federal subsidies -- Trump stumbles through incoherent interviews about China, healthcare, and foreign leaders, revealing worsening cognitive decline and erratic behavior -- White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt responds “your mom did” to a reporter asking why Trump and Putin will meet in Budapest, escalating the administration’s immaturity -- Trump attacks GOP Rep. Thomas Massie after he demands the release of the Epstein files, fueling speculation that the president fears what the documents will reveal -- A ProPublica investigation finds Trump expanding anonymous federal forces with unmarked vehicles and warrantless arrests, echoing classic authoritarian secret‑police tactics -- On the Bonus Show: Americans can't afford their car payments, the Supreme Court will weigh in on gun rights for drug users, Seth Moulton challenges Ed Markey for Senate as Dan Koh enters the race for Congress, and much more... 🍽️ CookUnity: Get Free Premium Meals for Life at https://cookunity.com/pakmanfree 🥑 MASA tortilla chips: Get 25% off with code PAKMAN at https://masachips.com/pakman 🩳 SHEATH Underwear: Code PAKMAN for 20% OFF at https://sheathunderwear.com/pakman ⚠️ Ground News: Get 40% OFF their unlimited access Vantage plan at https://ground.news/pakman 😺 Smalls cat food: Use code PAKMAN for 60% off & free shipping at https://smalls.com -- Become a Member: https://davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe to our (FREE) Substack newsletter: https://davidpakman.substack.com -- Get David's Books: https://davidpakman.com/echo -- TDPS Subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow -- David on Bluesky: https://davidpakman.com/bluesky -- David on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow   (00:00) Start   (01:55) Chicago mayor wants a general strike   (08:17) Trump demolishes White House sections (16:22) New England/New York could thrive (22:30) Trump stumbles in interviews (30:29) Leavitt escalates press immaturity (36:19) Abigail Spanberger Interview   (57:27) Trump attacks Massie over Epstein (1:03:29) Trump expands secret federal forces 

On today's show, anger is building across the country and the Trump White House never saw it coming. We are now seeing the first serious calls for a national strike, not a protest, not a march, really a work stoppage. And it's coming from Chicago's mayor, Brandon Johnson. It's a simple idea. If Trump can't be stopped through the courts or through Congress, maybe he could be stopped by the people that actually make the country work. I'm also going to speak with Abigail Spanberger. She is running for governor of Virginia.

This is one of the most important elections this off year in November. Meanwhile, Trump is literally demolishing part of the White House. The east wing part of it is being torn down to make room for his $250 million Patriot ballroom, supposedly funded by generous donors. The administration has even told federal employees don't take pictures, which is what you always do if what you're doing is above board, right? And while the chaos unfolds, red state secessionists are going to hate this next part because if any region could actually leave and thrive, it's the Northeast.

The numbers don't lie. We're going to look at it. Plus Trump's mental decline on full display with another day of incoherent rants. His press secretary is reduced to saying, your mom did it to a reporter. And Trump melts down over a Republican congressman, just asking a few too many questions about Jeffrey Epstein, ProPublica has also uncovered the new secret police force of unmarked agents and unaccountable detentions, the full authoritarian checklist, all of it on today's show. not now, then when? Many of you know, I've been asking, are things bad enough now in this

country that it's time to really pull out all the stops and employ all of the protest tactics that are known to achieve change. Mass rallies at urban centers is one. We are seeing more of that. Five million at the first no kings. Seven million at the second no kings. But what about another key tactic that I write about in my book, The Echo Machine. National strikes, mass callouts from work. Well, we are finally seeing the first major call for that from an elected official. It is Chicago mayor Brandon Johnson, who during his fiery speech at this weekend's no Kings rally, called for a general strike. He did it in a boisterous and excited fashion. Let's live. listen to what he had to say.

If my ancestors as slaves can lead the greatest general strike in the history of this country taking it to the utterance and big corporations, we can do the same today. I'm calling of black people, white people, brown people, Asian people, immigrants, gay people from around this country to stand up against dinner. We're going to bring them to the Umpiric and big corporations. We are going to make them pay their fair share and touch them. To fund our school, to fund jobs, to fund health care, to fund transportation, democracy for the live on.

Because of this generation, are you ready to take it to the ports and to the streets? Yeah. Basically are, right, when we're seeing just the So listen, some of you wrote to me and said, this is awesome. Some of you wrote to me and said that it's, he sounds unhinged. But I want to focus on the substance, the general strike idea. A general strike is when workers across a lot of industries, not just one, all stop working

at the same time to protest or to demand change. It's not one company. It's not like just tech workers. It's not only teachers or only nurses. The idea is everybody strikes together. In a sense, the U.S. has never really had a true general strike. So imagine if transportation workers, school teachers, power company workers, if everybody joined together, the systems that keep the country going would very quickly grind to a halt.

It would be impossible to ignore. And the idea is that by being impossible to ignore, it would force the people. people in power to come to the table to negotiate. Now, what would it be about? Well, it would really be about collective power. The the idea here is Trump through his authoritarianism has taken control of so many areas of our lives. No one seems to be able to stop him. And so the point would be people showing up and showing that they can shut the country down when the government oversteps. And the goal would be proving you can't run the country without us. You can't just sit in DC doing all of your authoritarian nonsense and have things continue to function and have the systems

from which Trump and his cronies make money continue to spit out money for them. Now, as you can probably imagine, it's very difficult to organize something like this. Many workers are not legally protected if they strike for political reasons. That's what I mean is as opposed to striking for a specific workplace issue. If you strike for political reasons unrelated to your specific job, you can be fired or replaced. Union membership is at historic lows. And many industries are deliberately structured to prevent collective action with, you know, temporary and gig or independent contractor workers, the whole point being make it difficult for them to organize. And so under Trump, striking workers could face retaliation. They could face police crackdowns.

They could even potentially face prosecution under the laws that are framed as anti-riot or critical infrastructure protection. So there is risk to a general strike. They're also difficult to coordinate. I mean, getting millions of people across industries and states to act together requires a huge amount of organization and trust and communication. And it's very difficult, especially when you've got social media disinformation campaigns and highly polarized politics. Workers could lose jobs, income or health care, get arrested, get blacklisted. There could be violence. There could be counter protesters. In an authoritarian climate, leaders of such a movement as a general strike could be targeted

personally. They could be sued, investigated, harassed. So all of that is true. But we do find ourselves asking the question, is this the time? If not now, then when? What would it take for people to realize this must stop? And the question is whether the American people are ready, desiring and willing to do something like this right now.

My honest assessment, my calculation is that the answer is no. There are clearly millions of Americans concerned by what's going on. Seven million came out and protested over the weekend, but still taking it all together, I think the vast majority are in the position of if I am not immediately. threat right now. I want to stay home. I want to keep working, bringing food home for my family, getting my kids to school, et cetera. And that's not a position to be laughed at. I respect people who are saying I need to keep my head down and keep doing what I believe right now is best for my family. The question will become when it starts being bad for everybody's families, not just

some. And so I asked the question to you, when do you think is the time? for a general strike, if any, is it now or is it forthcoming? Donald Trump is now demolishing parts of the White House. Remember, money cannot buy class. And if there is any greater reminder that money can't buy class, it's Donald Trump, his family and the Trump administration. It is harder to think of a motto more suited to Trump than money cannot buy class. Now, this is all happening to build Donald Trump's now infamous ballroom. It costs $250 million. The demolition of the East Wing has begun. Begun. Trump said not a long time ago that none of this was going to interfere with any of the current buildings. Remember when Trump said this just a couple of months ago?

It won't interfere with the current building. I won't be. It'll be near it, but not touching it and pays total respect to the existing building, which I'm the biggest fan of. It's my favorite. It's my favorite place. I love it. Well, it seems that that has not come true. I know this may come as a shock to many of you, but Donald Trump lied again. Now, you might be saying are $250 million in taxpayer money going to this ballroom? Trump says no. Trump says that the project was funded by, quote, many generous patriots. In other words, it's funded by bribes. They know this looks bad. How do we know that? Because the White House has issued a demand that the construction not be photographed or published. They said, quote, as construction proceeds on the White House grounds,

employees should refrain from taking and sharing photographs of the grounds to include the East Wing without prior approval from the Office of Public Affairs. That's what they sent. That was sent by Treasury officials and reviewed by the Wall Street Journal. So the official reason is these pictures that we are looking at, for example, like this picture right here of the White House being demolished, that could potentially reveal sensitive items like security features or confidential structural details. Now, the more realistic explanation seems to be they don't want images of the White House being destroyed under Donald Trump. Normally, a project like this would have a historic preservation review.

It would involve multiple agencies. What's the right way to do it? Does it even make sense? Engineering would be involved. None of that happened. Did the process did not happen. They bypass the standard review in large part because some of those key oversight positions aren't even filled by the Trump administration. They're just open positions. If you, I hate to go in this direction, okay? But I've received emails from many of you saying, David, if Trump was planning to move out in January of 2029, he wouldn't be doing this. You know, if you're about to move out of your apartment, you don't repaint the whole thing and get brand new appliances. If Trump were planning to leave the White House in January of 2029, according to many of you, he would not be doing

this. And you know what? Maybe there is something to that. But you also have to remember, Trump is an egomaniacal narcissist, increasingly obsessed with his legacy. For Trump, part of legacy is leaving a lasting imprint that is difficult to undo. If you cut funding for Obamacare subsidies, the next president can relatively easily reverse that. Demolishing parts of the White House and spending $250 million to build new structures, much harder to undo. And I believe that this really goes primarily to Donald Trump's ego and then it gets to, you know, even if Donald Trump does plan to leave the White House in January, January of 2029, which I believe

he doesn't will. He could still be incentivized to do this with the idea that maybe he is going to make J.D. Vance the heir apparent to MAGA ism. And so it'll be there for J.D. Vance. Or maybe it's going to be President Donald Trump Jr. if you can imagine such a vomitous idea. And so maybe it's being done nice little ballroom I built for Donald Trump Jr., right?

So my question to you, do you believe that the underlying reason Trump is doing this is because he doesn't plan to leave? Do you believe that the underlying reason is because Trump is trying to do legacy stuff that would be harder to reverse than policy or something else. Let me know in the comment, send me an email info at david packman.com. I used to spend way too much of my day thinking about planning meals, what to make, how long it'll actually take to make it, whether it will be something I like. Since I started using Cook Unity, I have cut the stress out.

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And also make sure you're getting my free daily newsletter on substack at substack. David Pakman.com. You know how the right talks about the red states seceding from the United States every once in a while? Sometimes they call it a national divorce. Sometimes Marjorie Taylor Green wax is poetic about it. And every single time we have to come in and explain to them, sorry, not going to work. The red states are on welfare.

The red states aren't self-sufficient. The red states, again, this is of course on average. The red states have lower standard of living, poor education, etc. Well, I have news for them and they're not going to like this at all. There is a secession that is possible and it will be a real trigger to many of our MAGA friends. If New England and New York wanted to together secede and create our own country, not only would it work? It would be one of the most successful countries in the world. And I know we're told progressive policies don't work. Being like Denmark and Sweden doesn't work, but it does work.

Let me give you the data. The total population of New England plus New York is about 35 million people. The total GDP of the New England states plus New York is 3.75 trillion. This is a GDP per capita of over 106,000 US dollars. Now, if you look at global data, that would make this hypothetical country, New England plus New York, the fourth or fifth richest country in the world per capita. Now you might say, well, hold on a second. Whoa, whoa, whoa, David, hold on a second. Per capita isn't everything.

often need things from other states from other parts of the country. Well, one thing that this hypothetical country would not need is money from other states because New England and New York pay in way more to the federal government to subsidize red states than these states ever get back. New England and New York are subsidizers. Now, by the way, if you like analyses like this, if you like content like this, please make sure to like the video and leave a comment saying, David, please more of this. this and hit that subscribe button and I will do more of them. So then we might get to, well, what

about education? The states of New England and New York are some of the most densely populated with colleges and universities in the country. No issue with education at all. Well, what about manufacturing and the industrial base? Well, New England and New York have defense. They have aerospace. They have biotech. They have nanotech. They have precision tools. Now, it is true that this hypothetical country would have an issue with automobiles and heavy industry. You'd have to import. But that's okay.

There are many countries that import those things. But it would be a finance, tech, and services superpower. They've got ports, JFK, Boston, Logan, Bradley airports, a rail corridor from Boston to New York City. So it would be sort of like Japan, South Korea, or the UK in terms of being resource poor in some areas, able to import raw materials, but exporting massive amounts of capital research and technology. Now, the truth is that this should really not come as a surprise. If you look around the world, you find the countries with the highest standard of living.

Now, what metric am I using for this? I'm using something called HDI plus. You might have heard of just HDI, the human development index. HDI plus takes into account a number of other mechanisms related to life expectancy, quality of life, income safety, etc. If you look around the world, the countries with the highest standard of living per HDI plus are Iceland, Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, Germany, Sweden, Australia. If you look at what U.S. states are able to match the standard of living of those countries,

it's mostly the ones we're talking about. It's Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Connecticut is up there, Vermont is up there, New York is in the top 15 alongside Rhode Island. Maine is sort of right in the middle. So it makes sense that the states with the highest standard of living, if they came together, be able to be similar to the countries with the highest standard of living. And so it would be a successful, prosperous country because it is organized like a lot of the most successful countries around the world. Now MAGA really doesn't like this.

MAGA wants you to believe that states should be like Mississippi and Arkansas and don't forget Texas and Florida. They want you to think that no gun safety laws and low regulation of all kinds, lots of uninsured people, lower quality education, lack of access to health care. They want you to believe that under the guise of freedom, that is going to get you the most success, the most success economically, the most success socially. But if any region of the United States could actually secede and thrive, it's the Northeast. It's New England plus New York.

And by the way, separately, California. This story is not about California. There is a California case to be made as well. California would be completely self-sufficient as a country. And in fact, it would be one of the larger countries in the world, fascinatingly enough. We know about California. The New England, New York alliance would be an unstoppable economic and innovation powerhouse. And the MAGAs absolutely hated.

Donald Trump had another confused short-circuiting day. He forgot basic things. He told a number of lies. He appeared disoriented and feeble. And he's also saying a lot of things that just don't make any economic sense. One of the things that's important to remember is that China's standing in the world is growing thanks to Donald Trump's tariffs. Donald Trump's blanket tariffs have driven China to make deals with other countries, meaning

other countries are now saying, oh, China is more important to us. And it has also, by going to other countries, made other countries realize, hey, we don't really need to be as aligned with the United States to survive economically as long as we have deals with China. Trump has helped China and hurt the United States with his blanket tariffs. But what is Trump saying, as usual, it's the opposite of what is true. Donald Trump is saying China may not even make it as a country. Listen to this.

Almost like saying we don't want to do business with you, but it's probably nicer. Saying you're going to pay 158, 157 percent tariff is a nicer way of saying that we don't want to do business with you. And if they don't do business with us, I think China's in big trouble. I'll be honest with you. I think China is, I don't know that they even make it. I really do. I believe.

I don't know that China's going to make it. Folks, she is eating Trump's lunch. Eating Trump's lunch. China has diversified. China has become more robust and less dependent on any one point of failure. And Trump goes, oh, as a country, China might not be able to do it. The topic of soybeans came up. Now, as I've told you before, China has stopped purchasing soybeans from the United States.

This is wrecking American farmers. China's okay. China has made deals to get their soybeans from other countries. China likes it and those other countries like it. And yet Donald Trump says, oh, we've got a problem here. Well, the problem is one that you created, sir. Korea, China, and I will have a really fair and really great trade deal together. I want them to buy soybeans.

They stopped buying our soybeans because they thought that was punishment. And it is punishment to our farmers, but we're not going to allow that to happen. Because I made a great trade deal with China, a $50 billion trade deal, and they were great about it. They were doing everything that they were supposed to do. And then when Biden came in, you know, I used to call presidency all the time to say, thank you or you're not buying enough. In other words, they were supposed to buy. Biden, do you think Biden never called him? I don't think Biden never called him.

You think by Trump says we're not going to let it happen because it would be bad for the farmers. It is it's happening right now. The United States is now selling zero soybeans to China. The farmers are getting crushed. He did it in the first term. He's doing it again. China has moved on. China has found new supply.

Does Trump personally suffer? No, he's a rich guy. Uh, do the farmers suffer again. Yes. They do. And now Donald Trump is saying, no, no, no, China's a real problem because they're not buying soybeans. They're not buying soybeans because of what Donald Trump did.

Maybe my favorite moment from this event, a reporter mentions that the ambassador of Australia has criticized Trump. Trump has no idea what the guy looks like and doesn't realize that he's in the room sitting at the table. So Trump goes, is he still working with you? And the reporter goes, it's this guy right here. I love this. Go ahead, Mr. President, there's been concerned in Australia that it's taken nine months to get this meeting.

Have you had any concerns with this administration with a stance on Palestine, climate change, or even things the ambassador said about you in the past, the Australian ambassador? I don't know anything about him. I mean, if he said bad, then maybe he'll like to apologize. I wrote, I know, did an ambassador say something bad? Don't tell me. Where is he? Is he still working for you? Yeah, yeah. It's explained to Trump.

It's the guy sitting right here that you're meeting with right now. Do you sit bad? Before I took this position, Mr. President. I don't like you either. I don't. And I probably never will. Go ahead. No, you went.

Go ahead. Behind you. There you go. I don't like you either. And I probably never will. What a day for the president of the United States. Trump also spoke at another event at which he claims to have fixed health care. Now I know many of you in the audience will be very surprised to hear that.

We are still waiting for Donald Trump's health care plan due two weeks from August of 2020. Biggest deductions ever taken job producing deductions, $50 billion to rural hospitals. We took care of Medicaid, Medicare. We took care of everything. And we did something that people didn't know. We didn't know where we'd stand in a year or two years from now. So we put every single thing that we wanted in that bill for four years. So we don't need any more votes.

All we want to do, all we want to do is have a vote of continuation. And it's the first time in history that a group has not voted for continuation. So they're having a, they have what's called a Trump derangement problem. Have you heard about that problem? Because that's the only reason this could be possible. But I think we're doing very well. I think they're going to have no choice but to go along because the country is setting records in every way and people wanted to continue that way.

So we're hoping the Democrats become much less deranged and that we will get the vote pretty soon. And I hear they're starting to feel that way too. They're starting to feel like they really have to do what's right for the country and they will. Trump has still not released a health care plan, which was just two weeks away, we were told in August of 2020. Trump is arguing he has fixed health care when he has done the opposite and has weakened it.

Medicaid and Medicare have been destroyed, not completely. They have been hurt by the one big beautiful bill, the one nasty bill, whatever you want to call it. The opposite. Trump's theme is he does one thing and then claims to have done the opposite. If you pay attention to what he did and you like that, hey, cool. If you pay attention only to what he says and you don't look at what he did, then you find something you like, I guess, for people who are falling for it. Trump then cannot even remember what country he appointed Herschel Walker to be the ambassador to. It happens to be the Bahamas. Trump doesn't

know what's going on. We're in the NFL too and he's a great person. And now he's going to be the ambassador. Come on name the country, Herschel. He's going to be in the tough job. Where is the news coverage of Trump never remembering a damn thing? There is no such coverage because it only matters when it's Joe Biden. A disastrous day for Donald Trump, event after event after event, just humiliating. And meanwhile, outside, they're demolishing the White House for Trump's ballroom, a pathetic embarrassing day. But then there's Caroline Levitt. Whenever you think you've hit a new low of embarrassment, we remember she's the press secretary. In behavior, really more reminiscent of an adolescent

than of a White House press secretary, Caroline Levitt responded to questions from a reporter with the middle school classic, your mom did. I am not joking. This is where we are today. Sticks and stones may break my, what was what are those phrases? That is the level Caroline Leavitt is operating in. Now, I know that she's very young to be a White House press secretary, but she's not 12. After learning that Trump and Putin plan to meet Thursday in Budapest Hungary, many reporters wondered why and why indeed. Given that Hungary is currently run by another authoritarian autocrat, Victor Orban, a meeting between authoritarian's Trump and Putin in the country run by another authoritarian Orban doesn't exactly sound like it'll read

lead to a pro-democracy outcome. So the question was, why Budapest? The question was asked by S. V. De Tay. Caroline Levitt responded with, your mom picked it. We have the text messages. The text exchange went as follows. Is the president aware of the significance of Budapest? In 1994, Russia promised in Budapest not to invade Ukraine if it gave up the nuclear weapons it inherited when the Soviet Union dissolved. Does he not see why Ukraine might object to that site? Who suggested Budapest, thanks? To which Caroline Leavitt responded, your mom did. Your mom did. S.V. DeTay said, is this funny to you? To which Caroline Levitt responded, it's funny to me that you actually consider yourself a journal. I assume she means a journalist. You are a far left

hack who nobody takes seriously, including your colleagues in the media. They just don't tell you that to your face. Stop texting me. Your disingenuous, biased and bullshit questions. We essentially have internet trolls, dumb ones running the country. Next, she's going to say, I know you are, but what am I? The immature childish bullies are now in charge. She really is a joke and she is now spoken out about the exchange, but her her outspeak doesn't make any sense. She said, quote, For context, SV d'et of the Huffington Post is not a journalist interested in the facts. He is a left-wing hack, who has consistently attacked President Trump for years and constantly bombards my phone with Democrat talking points.

Just look at his feed. It reads like an anti-Trump personal diary. Here is my full response to his, quote, inquiry. Activists who masquerade as real reporters do a disservice to the profession. You know, I want to get a real answer to the question. Why the hell are they meeting in Budapest? There is no reforming these people. They simply have to be removed by defeating them.

And I would love at some point to get an answer because not only is Budapest significant in that it's two authoritarian saying let's meet in another authoritarian haven, as Svitae points out, it is particularly adversarial to Ukraine. And the idea of Budapest Hungary as some kind of neutral site where the differences between Russia and Ukraine could be sorted out logically for the mutual benefit of everybody, it's just all completely pathetic. And that's always the way it is with Donald Trump. Your mom did it.

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description or scan the QR code. It's great to be joined today by Abigail Spanberger, who is the Democratic nominee for governor of Virginia. This is not a 2026 race. This is a 2025 race and arguably one of the most important ones. Really appreciate you being here. And maybe we could start by talking a little bit about Virginia. I mean, Virginia is very interesting because there's some sense in which Virginia can kind of be seen as a bellwether as a state that sometimes votes for Republicans and sometimes for Democrats as to the direction that that things are going. Is there anything unique to Virginia that would explain its role as such a bellwether? David, thank you so much for having me on. And I will give a little caveat. I'm running

for governor of Virginia. So of course, I'm going to think that Virginia has. has tremendous importance on the national stage. So that caveat aside, I do think there are some reasons why people really do look towards Virginia. Namely, we have these off-year elections. Our gubernatorial race, our statewide races are this year, November 2025. We're also a state that is extraordinarily diverse in industry and in people and in landscape. We have a tremendous number of federal employees, the largest naval base in the world, and our number one private industry is agriculture. So I do think that there is some reason to look to Virginia for indications of where the country is politically. In fact, because of the nature and the timing

of our elections, but also importantly, because I do think that we have a little bit of everything in a way that can be representative of maybe trends that other people might see in other portions of the country. You know, in thinking back to when Glenn Yonkin got elected, I remember covering that race and there was an interesting kind of dance that he did at the time where he sort of, this is my characterization, wanted to get the benefit of the sort of MAGA movement, but at the same time didn't want to be too closely associated with Donald Trump in some of the ways that that might become a drag on his campaign. But if there's anything I can say that is praiseworthy of how he ran the campaign, although

I don't respect his political views, it's that he seemed to find a balance between doing the anti-woke stuff and doing some of the things that were en vogue at the time, but not too closely aligning himself with Trump, who was not particularly popular in the state. The Republican voters in the state, some of whom, of course, you hope to attract with your candidacy, are Republicans in Virginia different than the typical MAGA Republican in some ways? Oh, that's an interesting question. Well, you know, I do think that the 2021 election, which is, of course, when our Republican governor was elected, that was a unique time. And certainly he was able to distance himself a bit from Donald Trump because he was, of course,

out of office at the moment, did, as you mentioned, he really did tiptoe around it, never inviting Trump to visit. And people, it was like a Rorschach test. People thought he was heavily aligned or they thought he was opposed and he never really had to convey one way or the other. I think that what we're seeing now on the ground is that there are, you know, of course, many people across Virginia who remain very aligned with President Trump who continue to like, whether it's his policies or his rhetoric or frankly just his bravado. But what I also know to be true is that there are many people, you know, some who voted for him even just last year, and certainly many who voted for Governor Yonkin, our Republican governor back in 2021, who are asking themselves, rightly and

appropriately so, is this what I voted for? Is this what I wanted? And you just look at the basic numbers related to Virginia. We are uniquely and incredibly impacted, of course, by the shutdown, which we are in the throes of at this moment, but since January from the Doge effort, more than 320,000 federal employees call Virginia home. And that's just the federal employees. Once you scale it out to government contractors and peoples who in some way deal with the federal government in an economic way, the impact is substantial for restaurant owners who are seeing a diminishing customer base for small business owners the same, the tariffs and the retaliatory tariffs are crushing so many of Virginia's farmers. Input costs are rising, whether it's for

fertilizer or machinery on their farms. And then we've lost whole markets because of retaliatory tariffs. And so I think that people who would either call themselves Republicans or historically have voted along the way for Republicans, there's quite a willingness to ask themselves the question, is this working? And this chaos coming out of Washington, is this the type of leadership that I want back home in Virginia. And I think that more and more people are saying, no, I want a governor who stands up for Virginians, a governor who's going to sort of name and number all of the assaults on our Commonwealth that we're witnessing from the Trump administration and the impacts, whether it's on our rural communities and on health care or on our academic

institutions or on our business sector. We've had seven months of rising unemployment in Virginia. We lost MSNBC's, or CNBC, excuse me, CNBC's had previously named Virginia the number one place for business. We lost that title. And, you know, the hits just keep coming. And I think many, many people are considering what does it mean to have leadership in Richmond who's actually going to stand up for Virginia? Because, of course, our current governor and our lieutenant governor, my opponent, have been absolutely silent in the face of all of the attacks on Virginians and our economy and our health care, you know, the list goes on and on. With regard to what's happening within the Democratic Party in Virginia right now, you know,

in some parts of the country, there's really a sort of, I don't even know the right word. It's sort of a combination of exhaustion and discussed with the sort of traditional establishment, Democratic candidate way of doing things. And I see it on my show when we've interviewed candidates over the last month who are running for Senate who are running for positions in the House of Representatives. We also talk to sitting, sitting governors. And there's a wing of the Democratic Party that is sort of like, listen, the model has to be someone like a Zoran Mamdani.

Now on a personal level, I'm not a socialist. And so I have many policy disagreements with someone like a Mamdani. But I can't help but recognize that there is an energy and a plain speaking way of people like Mamdani that I think there's a desperation for. in the Democratic Party right now because I'll be honest, eight out of 10 Democrats I interview, I ask what seems like a simple question and we get answers that are I can't really call them answers is I think what I'm trying to say. So what what do you make of what seems to be a shifting landscape for what Democratic voters are looking for in a candidate?

You know, I think this is such an interesting question. And I'll take a step away from my own race right now and say that in Virginia, we have a hundred seats in the house. of delegates and those seats are up every two years and they're up this year and we have a hundred democrats running in all 100 seats and this is the first time this has happened in years and years and years and what we're seeing in terms of the candidates and the people who are stepping forward to run for the house of delegates in addition we also have three statewide seats that run individually and we can flip them individually you know we've got a pediatrician who has never been involved in politics. And when he saw attacks on health care and the sort of Maha movement

impeding his ability to keep kids safe, he stepped forward and said, I'm going to run for office and try to bring my voice to Richmond. We've got a woman who's an auditor. And her whole focus of the campaign is, I'm a mom, I'm an auditor, I'm a professional person, never been heavily involved in politics. But at a time when we are seeing so much chaos, particularly in the financial space of, you know, the actions of the federal government, how can I ensure that my voice, my perspective and my ideas are present and serving my community enrichment? You know, and the list goes on. We've got a fourth generation cattle farmer running to bring her family's views, the industry, the voice of ag, to Virginia, a variety of veterans of all of our military

service branches. You know, there's, and there's so there's a vibrancy. And I will say people are exhausted. But in Virginia, where we do have elections every single year, there's also a resolute focus, a resolute focus on what is possible into the future. And I would add, you know, when I was first elected to Congress, and I first ran in 2018, declared my candidacy in 2017, I ran in a district that hadn't elected a Democrat since 1968, and I ran in a district that my predecessor had won by 15 points. And my district had a little bit of notoriety to it, because Eric Cantor, the Republican majority leader, had lost in a primary from the right. And then I ran against the Tea Party insurgent who had beat Eric Cantor and then served a

couple terms. And then I beat that guy, swinging the district almost 17 points. And the way that we did it was by just being tactically engaged on the ground. And it's much, of course, it's much easier to do that, you know, within a congressional district, one of 11 in Virginia, to be spread across the district, talking to people engaging, but trying to do that same sort of model where, you know, it isn't necessarily about the candidate. The candidate has to have, you know, the background and the energy and the ideas and clearly articulate what it is that we will do or what it is, in my case, that I am for and the policies I plan to pursue. But ensuring that people in every community across at the time my district now in the gubernatorial race

feel pulled into and part of the process because so much of the whether it's apathy or worry or fear or concern or just kind of the feeling of just being fed up sometimes that's because the politics seems to exist further away from the everyday voter and so we have the largest field team in Virginia history. We are knocking hundreds of thousands of doors. We've made over a million phone calls. We've got volunteers in every community, making sure that people know they have options and there's candidates running who want to serve them. And importantly, you know, not taking any community, no matter how red or frankly how blue those communities are, making sure that people are invited into the process. So, you know, I don't know if that wholly gets it at your question.

but I think that what I have seen, at least in Virginia, is people increasingly want a bit of a connection to a hope of something better. You know, they want to know you're going to be competent. You've got plans and you're going to work hard. But they also want to be to whatever degrees, not everybody wants to knock doors, but want to be connected to the process and not just feel like yet again politics is sort of put upon them. And at times it's a hard balance, but I think when you bring people in as candidates who love people and love what they're doing and are driven by a deep sense of empathy, and our speaker of the House, Don Scott is a fantastic, fantastic leader, you know, and I've heard people ask him before. When you're trying to, you know, ensure that you're recruiting candidates who are going to win in some of these House of Delegates seats, what do you look for? And I think sometimes his

answer can be surprising, and I've heard him give it multiple times. He says, empathy. Like, I want to know that when you walk into a community or you walk into a church or you walk into somebody's business, that you're going to feel and you're going to respond as a human towards the challenges that people are facing. And I think that's why we have so many extraordinary candidates who are running because, frankly, for many of them, it's their personal experiences that drove them to run And that is driving them every day of what is a really tough election cycle. And it's why I believe we're going to flip quite a few seats in the House of Delegates as well as our three statewides this November, two weeks from today.

Yeah. One of the things that I know my audience really appreciates is when candidates come on the show and have really specific action plans on certain issues. Yesterday, I was part of a like a group of about five or six of us creators who met with Governor Wes Moore. And one of the things he said is a guiding principle right now is that Democrats need to do more now and fast in the sense of saying we have specific ideas that we're going to implement. If we just pick one thing in the few minutes we have left with you and think about affordability in Virginia, affordability could be handled in a lot of different ways. Affordability could mean, oh, we're going to suspend zoning barriers so that we can build more housing, which will bring down

the cost of housing, for example, or I'm going to deal with utilities. And I'm going to, the first thing I will do is I will negotiate the utility rates in this way. What speaking as specifically as possible, knowing that there's this desire for people who have, who have really tangible ideas. What is your immediate on affordability in Virginia? So I'm going to start top level. Affordability is the number one issue. Housing healthcare and energy are the places that it comes up the most often.

And the challenge there as well is that some of the ways that you solve or get at these challenges, the response can't necessarily be felt immediately. So of those three, I'm going to pull myself back from my desire to laundry list all of the things that I would like to talk about, and I'll go straight at the issue of housing. So a couple things. Day one is working with the General Assembly. So there's a variety of things that as governor, I can prioritize. Working with Virginia Economic Development Partnership, which works to attract businesses and ensure that Virginia businesses have markets outside of the state, ensuring that they are putting a priority on the recognition in their communication with locality, in my administration's community with locality,

that when we're recruiting businesses, we have to have the infrastructure to meet their needs, and that includes housing. So localities that are being aggressive and focused on expanding out their housing options, those are the localities where we're going to aggressively try to bring business, you know, and not to neglect any other locality, but to recognize and make sure in the conversation, housing is part of it. We have a variety of hurdles, call it red tape, call it roadblocks that we put in place in Virginia at the state level, some of them older requirements that might have made sense from a health and safety perspective a decade or two ago.

But day one, I'm going to put out a call to all of our state agencies, particularly those that deal with housing permitting and related developments. So that's our Department of Transportation and environmental quality and making sure that they are streamlining as much as possible, all requirements, and getting rid of any more antiquated, no longer necessary hurdles that we make people jump through. Also, Virginia is a Dillon rule state, so we do put constraints on our localities. And as governor, I will work with the General Assembly to say, let's untie their hands a bit because it's not a one-size-fits-all solution. particularly when we have very densely populated regions and very rural communities.

And so ensuring that localities can take the step that's right for them, not being bound by the state, and in some cases not pointing to the state as the reason that they're not taking action, that's important. Ensuring that we are building up more workforce and attainable family housing is important, ensuring that we can turn over. We've got a lot of older buildings or older manufacturing. manufacturing sites, that we can turn those over and incentivize in many ways, moving those older buildings or older areas of communities into housing. Because it isn't going to be one thing that

fixes the problem. It's going to be a real recognition that all of those things work in complement of one another. Virginia also is one of the worst states when it comes to eviction. And if we want to have people in steady housing and ensure that they can continue to make sure their kids, have a steady experience in schools or they can remain in steady employment. Being in steady housing is like a key indicator of someone's trajectory. And Virginia is one of the worst states for eviction. So within that housing plan is ensuring that those who have housing can stay in it. And so working with the General Assembly to elongate that period.

Right now we are quick to evict people in Virginia. And we know the data bear it out easily and readily that if you can extend that period of time where someone might miss a payment, that once they get back on track, they're back on track. But if we evict them or if their landlord can evict them in that time, you create such a negative cycle that it might take years to get that individual or that family back on track. So a variety of levers that we can pull to really ensure that into the next, as we're looking at 10, 15, 20 years from now, people who want to live in our beautiful Commonwealth have the ability to do it not just somewhere, but in the community that they want to live in.

And this is deeply personal for me because back in 2014, my husband and I are both from Virginia. I was a CIA officer. We were living overseas. Then we were living on the West Coast with my job. And we made the choice to move back home. A couple miles from where we had both lived as kids. And the reality is he works from home. He's an engineer. If we had been from the community literally the next county over, we wouldn't have been able to move home. Because at the time, the broadband infrastructure wasn't what it needed to be for someone who works from home. So we would have moved probably to the county that we happened to grow up in. And there's just story after story of people.

It's one thing to move back home to Virginia, but I want people to be able to go the place that they want to be. And whether you might be priced out of the community you grew up in in northern Virginia, or there isn't the infrastructure necessary for you to return home to some of our other counties and localities, all of that. The call for me is to make sure that anywhere you might want to live, there's an option for you as an individual as a family. But importantly, that's how we continue to grow our economy and ensure that people can create opportunity right where they are or that they can go to the place where they want to be

and succeed. That is a lot of specific ideas. And I'm glad to hear that. This is an election that is in two weeks. We've been speaking with the Democratic candidate for governor of Virginia, Abigail Spanberger. Really important race. We're going to be watching it closely. And I really appreciate your time so close to the election.

Thank you so much. Early voting has begun in Virginia. We're seeing tremendous engagement. And if anybody wants to learn more about our race, volunteer from afar or make sure your friends in Virginia are aware about the campaign. My website is Abigail Spanberger.com. One of my close friends has a cat that I actually really like. I take a lot of heat for not being a cat guy, but this particular cat I really like.

But this cat is a very picky cat when it comes to meal time. I will admit, turns up her nose. to a lot of the store bought stuff. Then my friend tried our sponsor Smalls, and the problem was gone. They even did a little test, old food in one bowl, Smalls in the other. The cat went right for the smalls. No hesitation, no delay. The first time that she saw her cat get excited about meal time in a long time, which this cat is picky, folks. This cat is picky. This is because smalls is real food for cats. It's protein-packed recipes, real ingredients you would actually recognize from your own fridge. No preservatives, no artificial fillers, nothing mysterious,

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demanding that he be thrown out by Kentucky voters. This is not about loyalty. This is not about policy. This is about one thing. It is about Epstein and Trump is panicking. Let's take a look at the post. This is a wild one. Okay.

So strap in. Third rate congressman Thomas Massey, a weak and pathetic rhino from the great Commonwealth of Kentucky, a place I love and one big six times must be thrown out of office ASAP. The incredible people of Kentucky's fourth congressional district gave us a mandate to make America great again. And the person that will help us do that is Navy SEAL, Army Ranger, and fifth generation Kentucky farmer captain Ed Galrain, a true America first patriot. He goes on to talk about how great Ed is.

And then in the third and final paragraph of this diatribe says, I hope Ed gets into the race against Massey, who is now polling at about 9% because the great people of Kentucky are wise to him. He only votes against the Republican Party, making life very easy for the radical left, unlike lightweight Massey, a totally ineffective loser who has failed to so badly. Captain Ed Galrain is a winner who will not let you down. Should he decide to challenge Massey, Captain Ed Galrain has my complete and total endorsement, Run, Ed, run.

Maga. Here's what really happened. Thomas Massey just did something almost no Republican has had the courage to do. He teamed up with a Democrat. That Democrat is Rokana and they are teaming up to try to force a vote demanding the Justice Department release all of the documents from the Epstein investigation. Now, we are going to keep pushing as well. And this is an area where to the extent that there's overlap between Democrats, Republicans,

the left and right. We also want to see those files. If you agree with the files being released, make sure to hit the like button, hit that subscribe button. Let's get the word out. Share the video. Let's keep pushing for it. Now, according to multiple reports, Trump's name is all over those files. It may be that he is all over those files because he was colleagues or acquaintances, better said, with people who are perpetrators in the files. It may be because Trump is a perpetrator in the files himself. We don't know until we have that information. We simply don't know. But what we do know is that there's a sitting president trying to destroy a member of his own

party because the congressman wants transparency. The very transparency Trump used to say he also wanted. Trump used to say he also wanted the Epstein files released. But it slowly shifted and changed to where Trump was by the time he got elected saying, you know, the Epstein files, I'm not so sure of. And now it seems clear that he doesn't want those files released. Remember that we know Trump once called Epstein a terrific guy. He said, oh, you know, Epstein likes women on the younger side.

Those are Trump's words. And so Trump knew what was going on. And now Trump's administration has concluded Epstein's death was definitely a suicide, a suicide, which has thrown a lot of the conspiracy theorists for a loop. And also that there is no client list, which is very convenient and difficult to believe. But it gets even worse than that. Trump won't rule out pardoning Jelaine Maxwell, Epstein's partner, who is serving decades for sex trafficking of children.

Maxwell just happened to give an interview, exonerating Donald Trump. How convenient. So Massey has had enough, and I agree with him on this issue. He wants answers. He wants documents. And Trump's response is to try to destroy and end his political career. Trump endorsed Ed Galrain, a failed state Senate candidate, saying, running. Ed run. It's not even clear that Ed wants to run. Trump is desperate to get rid of Thomas

Massey. He's throwing the full weight of the presidency behind removing Massey from Congress. And I have something else to add to this. Marjorie Taylor Green also wants the Epstein files released. Massey has never been a close ally of Trump's, but Marjorie Taylor Green has. I would not be shocked if Marjorie Taylor Green keeps barking up this tree to see Donald Trump turn on her and try to to get her kicked out as well. It's funny how he refers to Massey as Epstein obsessed. I'm going to translate that for you. Caring about victims of sexual assault is now Epstein obsessed. That's the translation. So I don't want to overstate the degree to which I like Thomas Massey. I agree with the guy on basically nothing. But there is a level of courage when your party is mostly

doing one thing and you know the president is going to use the power of the bully pulpit to attack you. It does take some courage to stand up and say, this is not right. And Trump's answer is very clear. Destroy anybody who asks. Smear anybody who has the audacity to say, hey, maybe we should release those files. So the 2026 Kentucky primary is all of a sudden about a lot more than just politics. It's are we going to demand accountability from the most powerful people in this country? Or are we going to let them bury the truth forever and allow Donald Trump to convince someone to run against Massey, maybe even lead to Massey being removed from Congress by losing the primary? Which are we going to do? I'm on the side of the transparency. Trump used to be on

that side as well. Another day, another authoritarian tactic from the 20th century surfaces in 2025 in Donald Trump's America. There is a pro-publica investigation which has found that Donald Trump's growing shadowy secret police, this cadre made up of sort of a who's who of federal law enforcement is checking a lot of the boxes of authoritarian repression and police power with no limits. If you are a. progressive, you should hate this. If you are a right-leaning libertarian, you should hate this. If you are a constitutionalist, you should hate this. We're seeing a complete erosion of civil liberties protections. We used to have constraints on law enforcement, and suddenly we barely do. The first

element of this is anonymity. This shadowy police force often is made up of troops with no identification markers that show they even are law enforcement. They often wear generic police patches with no names, no badge numbers, no agency insignia. They're often wearing masks. They're in unmarked vehicles doing a lot of operations with cars that have out of state plates, no plates at all. And if you don't have identifiable officers, you can't really make a misconduct complaint. A guy with no badge and no designation as to what department he's even representing showed up in a vehicle with no license plates and harassed me. Who am I complaining about?

I don't even know. It is that they were in an arm marked vehicle with no badge and a mask. I have no clue who it was. This leads us to the due process violations. I hope I'm pronouncing it correctly, Rumasia Oz Turk. She was held without contact for 24 hours after writing a campus op-ed. You don't have to agree or disagree with the substance of what she wrote to know that that is not an American thing to do.

Detainees are then being moved and shuffled between states, separating them from family, sometimes separating them from legal counsel. have been circumventing judicial oversight, sometimes by waiting outside of court proceedings to snatch people. And we're also seeing mass detentions without evidence. 47 people, including nine children, seized at a birthday party with no public evidence supporting any gang affiliation claims that have been made. The third element is the massive increase in the size of these agencies, one of the other hallmarks

of authoritarian regimes is they blow up, they increase the size of the enforcement agencies. $50,000 signing bonuses are reportedly being offered, dropped age, training, and educational requirements to grow this shadowy police force. And 11,000 new hires are planned with what they are calling streamlined training. Now look at the analogies to prior authoritarians. Secret police tactics, masked agents, unmarked vehicles, detention with no communication. The targeting of dissenters, intimidation of officials, disappearances. These are techniques and tactics with a very ugly past.

It's very easy to go, oh, Hitler, yeah, but we're talking about Mussolini. We're talking about Franco. We're talking about Pina Shea. I mean, I could give you 10 or 12 different examples. Once a government establishes that we've got a class of people that we allow to be seized by masked agents without accountability, who's next should be the question we are asking. The infrastructure, you know how I was recently listening to a podcast about colonoscopy of all things. And in the United States, we do way more colonoscopies than just about any other

country. And one of the things that the podcast pointed out is once you build the infrastructure, to do a lot of colonoscopies, you're going to do it. And if we apply that here, once you build the infrastructure of oppression, which is the deputizing of these troops to do local law enforcement, increasing the size of the forces, militarizing them, looking the other way about due process. Once you build that infrastructure of oppression, you're going to use it. And what sometimes happens is that what starts with them, whoever they are ultimately expands to us.

It would almost certainly expand to me based on a number of different identifying characteristics. So this is terrifying and it is happening more quietly than is required to really get the attention of the country. I'm doing everything I can to tell you that this is going on. Now on the bonus show today, there is a concerning economic metric, which is Americans becoming increasingly behind on car payments. This is something that can signal a forthcoming economic calamity. We will also talk about the Supreme Court weighing gun restrictions for drug users.

And we will also talk about some shakeups in the Massachusetts House and Senate. Seth Moulton, Congressman Seth Moulton challenging Senator Ed Markey. Our friend Dan Coe running for the seat being vacated by Seth Moulton. So a lot of interesting things going on. All of that and more on today's bonus show. Get instant access by signing up at join packman.com. Get my free newsletter, substack. Davidpack.

com. I'll see you on the bonus show. I'll be back tomorrow.