The David Pakman Show - 10/25/22: Ron DeSantis Debate Collapse as Trump Audio Tapes Released

Episode Date: October 25, 2022

-- On the Show: -- Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas temporarily blocks Republican Senator Lindsey Graham's subpoena to testify in a voter fraud investigation in Georgia -- Florida Republican Governor Ron DeSantis completely collapses at his debate against challenger Democratic Congressman Charlie Crist -- Republican Senator from Texas Ted Cruz appears on The View and tells endless lies before being interrupted by hecklers -- Donald Trump voters are interviewed by MSNBC about the January 6 riots and it's an absolute nightmare of disinformation -- Caller wants to institute a stamp tax -- Caller wonders why Republicans went off the deep end over the last ten years -- Caller reviews the Ron DeSantis vs. Charlie Crist debate -- Caller critiques the format of the 2022 midterm debates -- Journalist Bob Woodward releases incredibly shocking Donald Trump audio tapes from a number of interviews -- California Republican Gubernatorial candidate Brian Dahle attempts a "Biden dementia" joke at a debate against incumbent Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom and it does not go well -- Donald Trump is reportedly considering radical Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene as his running made for 2024 -- Voicemail callers love the 2022 debate coverage and the newest songs -- On the Bonus Show: Rishi Sunak is the third British Prime Minister this year, actor Mark Hamill sends 500 drones to Ukraine, Adidas cuts its partnership with Kanye West in light of his recent horrifying antisemitism, much more... 🧻 Reel Paper: Use code PAKMAN for 30% OFF + free shipping at https://reelpaper.com/pakman 💪 Athletic Greens is offering FREE year-supply of Vitamin D at https://athleticgreens.com/pakman -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Subscribe to Pakman Finance: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanfinance -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

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232 Speaker 232 Speaker 232 Speaker 232 232 Speaker 232 Speaker 232 232 232 Speaker 232 Speaker 232 subpoena which would force Republican Senator Lindsey Graham to have to testify in Georgia in that 2020 election fraud, election fraud investigation. Why is this notable? Well, it's notable because Clarence Thomas is married to Ginny Thomas and Ginny Thomas is an extraordinarily prominent election denier who was in touch with all sorts of folks involved with the January 6th insurrection in no sensible country, on no sensible planet,

in no logical universe. Would Clarence Thomas be able to make decisions related to anybody and anything connected with that election. And indeed, that is what is going on. CNBC reports Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas temporarily blocks Senator Graham's subpoena from Georgia grand jury. Remember, Georgia is the state in which Donald Trump said, I need 11000 votes. Give me a break. Try to coerce Florida. I'm sorry, Georgia officials into finding the votes that he needed in order to win that state. And I know that we are days away from the 2022 midterms. But yes, this was all in the 2020 presidential election. The CNBC article adding the Fulton County grand jury investigating possible criminal interference

in the 2020 election in the state by former President Trump and allies, including Graham. Trump had pressured Georgia's top election officials to find him enough votes to overturn the win by Joe Biden. A federal appeals court last week refused a request by Graham to delay the subpoena. How on earth is Clarence Thomas still allowed to rule on anything even remotely related to the 2020 election? Never mind this particular case, the husband of a major denier of the actual results of that election. Arguably, Ginny Thomas, what do we call her, a January sixer? I think that is probably the most logical term to use. He has the ability to block a subpoena related to the very lies perpetrated which deny the validity of George's election,

which his wife was doing. Utterly absurd. Then as far as Lindsey Graham goes, have we seen anyone short of Donald Trump himself work this hard not to testify? Now, I'm going to say something and we have to take it in context. What happened to if you're innocent, you have nothing to worry about? Now, listen, I understand and I know many of you understand that it makes sense to get a lawyer if you can afford one. Of course, I would also take a lawyer's advice. And if it made sense to try not to testify or to plead the fifth, of course I would do it. But it is this very same right wing that has insisted previously, if you're innocent, you should have nothing to hide. You should have no reason to plead the fifth.

You should have no reason to try to ignore or get out of responding to a subpoena. It is they who have made that case all along. And it is those very same people who are taking a different approach now when it comes to that. We saw the Trump's, including Donald Trump himself, plead the fifth in a number of different depositions and in different circumstances when it was Trump who said the mob pleads the fifth. You don't need to do that if you're innocent. All of Hillary's people who pled the fifth clearly are guilty because pleading the fifth

is a sign of guilt. Now they're doing it. And so, of course, reasonable people understand you get the most competent counsel you can to represent you, the most competent counsel you can find or can afford. There's no question about that. But they are the ones who have been saying, listen, when people don't have anything to hide, you just show up, you say what you know, and that's it. Now, if you confront them with that now, they would say, no, no, no.

But, sir, that applies in normal situations. are partisan witch hunts meant to get around the proper use of the justice system to weaponize that very judge. And so these are extenuating circumstances where, of course, if this was a normal situation, we would just testify. We would never plead the fifth. They will always have such an excuse. But understand, at the end of the day, they are hypocrites. All of their principles, small government, less regulation, allowing states to make decisions, just showing up and cooperating with law enforcement. All of those things are only principles they state when it is convenient for them. It's now inconvenient. And now Clarence Thomas helping out Lindsey Graham, albeit potentially only temporarily. Last night, Ron DeSantis, the Republican governor of Florida,

was brutalized by challenger Charlie Crist to the point where at one at multiple moments during the debate, DeSantis appeared to be malfunctioning. His brain looked like it was malfunctioning. He didn't know what to say and in some cases didn't say anything. This is wild. Charlie Crist is almost certainly going to lose to Ron DeSantis, now losing by about 10 points in Florida. But this was one of the best performances by Charlie Crist of any 2022 candidate. Let's get right into it now. By the way, before as we jump in. Even many of the topics were topics that it's sort of a joke that they were even being discussed, critical race theory. Talking about the fact that trans

people exist, the the very existence of these issues rather than substantive issues of actual relevance. It already shows the degree to which the right has dominated the framing and has shifted the Overton window to the absurd. But let's put that aside for a second. Ron DeSantis doesn't like the approach that some schools are taking because he says it teaches that the U.S. was built on stolen land. Wait a second, wasn't it? It actually, if you look around the country, they do have programs, unfortunately.

Well, they will take a student, look at their race. OK, you're white. You're an oppressor. If you're black, you're oppressed. And think about what that does to a six or seven year old kid. That's wrong. You're seeing that you have people that are teaching. And actually, his running mate has said this in the past, that teaching the United States was built on stolen land. That is inappropriate for our schools. It's not true. And I'm happy. Can you imagine now? It's not unique like it's. We live in the US, so a lot of history that's taught to kids is US history. You know, in other countries, interestingly enough, kids are taught more global history. But OK, put that aside for a second. It's the US. So kids are taught US history. It's not unique that the US now exists on what we would accurately call stolen land.

I mean, countries in 2022 are on land that was stolen, won by war, annexed, purchased or created by international treaty. It's not really a special thing. It's not unique to the United States. The Roman Empire, the Zulu Empire, the Mongol Empire. You look at the history of how Japan came to be what it is. It's all a combination of these few mechanisms. It's not special. It's not a unique pejorative to teach the reality. These people live in a fantasy world. Now, what became a very big issue during

yesterday's debate and Charlie Crist handled it very well. Charlie Crist pointed out multiple times DeSantis is angling to run for president. Will he commit to actually serving out his four year gubernatorial term? And each time DeSantis was more and more flustered by it. Very, very interesting. Let's take a look. Ron, you talk about Joe Biden a lot. I understand you think you're going to be running against them. I can see how you might get confused, but you're running for governor. You're running for governor.

And I have a question for you. You're running for governor. Why don't you look in the eyes of the people of the state of Florida and say to them, if you're reelected, you will serve a full four year term as governor. Yes or no? Yes or no? This is the point at which it looks like DeSantis' brain is malfunctioning. Will you serve a full four year term if you're reelected governor of Florida? It's not a tough question. It's a fair question. He won't tell you. We did not agree on the candidates asking each other.

My governor, it's your turn. Well, listen, I know that Charlie's interested in talking about 2024 and Joe Biden, but I just want to make things very, very clear. The only worn out old donkey I'm looking to put out the pasture is Charlie. So there, of course, Chris, about 20 something years older than Ron DeSantis and Ron DeSantis going in that direction. But this really didn't get any better. It continued and it was it was quite ugly and telling about Ron DeSantis.

Only worn out old donkey I'm looking to put out the pasture is Charlie Chris. Yeah, well, Ron, we know you love to bully people and the little name calling you just exchanged. I can take it, but you shouldn't do it when children are stand behind you at a press conference and they're wearing a mask. True. But apparently, Chris did very, very well in this debate. I don't know that it will actually be enough to make a difference. But it was quite a scene because you like having it as an issue for political scoring

in points that you want to have for a future campaign. And let me remind the viewers he wouldn't even answer you if he would stay four years. If you reelect him as your governor, you're running for governor. You're asking them to vote for you for governor. At a minimum, you ought to be able to tell them if you get reelected, you'll serve as governor. Ron governor. So we had the border that was in much better shape in January of 2021. And the audience really noticing he does not want to answer that question because he obviously is getting set up to run for president. Then the topic of abortion came up. Ron DeSantis said he's proud of the 15 week

abortion ban that Florida passed. And he wrongly claims that at 15 weeks, babies are fully formed. I'm proud of the 15 weeks that we did. I know Charlie Crist opposes that even though the baby is fully formed, has a heartbeat, can feel pain and can suck their thumb. He also supports sex, selective abortions. That was someone screaming liar is used to discriminate against little girls. He supports dismemberment abortions where they literally will tear the baby limb from limb and he supports taxpayer funding abortion all the way up until the moment of birth. And that is right.

Yeah. Now, understand that there is debate over what fully formed means. Certainly there is no viability at 15 weeks. But the truth is that it's actually irrelevant to the debate. And what I mean by that is the following. Do you think for a second, if it was proven to the extent that it could be proven that a fetus is not fully formed by any definition at 15 weeks. Do you think people like DeSantis would all of a sudden go, oh, you know what? Now that we've determined the fetus isn't fully formed at 15 weeks, I'm OK with abortion. No, of course not. That's the trick, that it doesn't actually matter to them. They are just coming up with whatever they can say to justify increasingly draconian abortion restrictions. The crowd wasn't loving it.

At another moment, the topic of business came up. Charlie Chris doing an excellent job of flipping around who is pro business on DeSantis, who claims to be a very pro business Republican. Chris was very well prepared. I'm pro-business. I want to make sure we keep our businesses open. I'm not the governor who attacked Walt Disney World because they danger express their point of view. I'm not the governor who attacked the cruise industry because they just wanted to make sure that their customers weren't sick before they got on the boat.

That's you. You're the most anti business governor I've ever seen. DeSantis was increasingly annoyed. And interestingly, he he had this attitude sort of similar actually to Marco Rubio in his debate last week that even having to be there is sort of beneath him. He seemed resentful that he even had to debate the topic of the Martha's Vineyard flights came up. Remember this stunt wherein Marco I'm sorry, not Marco Rubio, Ron DeSantis paid to fly migrants from Texas to Martha's Vineyard. And again, Christ was very well prepared.

State Congressman, I thought what the governor did was a horrible political stunt. You know, we have an immigration problem. We have a problem at the border. We need to secure the border. I agree with all of that. But it doesn't mean that you use Florida taxpayers' dollars to charter two jets, go to Texas, lie to people to get them onto planes, fly them up to the northern part of our country, and one of them is a one-year-old baby. Another is a pregnant woman. They're willing to use people like that, in this case they were Hispanics, Venezuelan in particular, and have them as props for your political gain?

That's not the way to change policy. You can change policy and do what's right to secure the border by having comprehensive immigration reform. That's what I voted for in Congress. When you were in Congress, you wouldn't do it because you want to keep this issue alive. You want to have it as a wedge issue and you want to pull political stunts like you did with the taxpayers dollars of the people of Florida. That's not what it's for.

That's not what you should have done. It isn't funny. It's not right. And you were inhumane and how you treated these people. And DeSantis really didn't have any substantive rebuttal. It was just sort of like, well, you know, we have a real problem and the Chris Biden border crisis and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Last thing here, when Ron DeSantis tried to close out the debate claiming he led the pandemic

response based on facts, someone very succinctly in the audience just yells out liar, which is, of course, an accurate criticism. When a once in a century pandemic hit, I led based on facts, not based on. Right. So a disastrous debate for Ron DeSantis. But I hate to tell you, it probably will not make a difference. If you live in Florida, you should vote. There's no doubt about it. It is right now a 10 point deficit, a 10 point deficit for Charlie Crist. Charlie Crist would be a fine governor for Florida. Ron DeSantis is a disaster. He is using this to set up his presidential run if it's convenient, if it ends up going that way, without a doubt. Really good debate for Charlie Crist. DeSantis fumbling and

looking malfunctioning, almost Trump like glitches. But DeSantis sadly will probably win. But maybe not. Let's all vote. Remember that we have a YouTube channel approaching two million subscribers. I found out an incredible piece of data last week. My colleague John told me this. Even though we had four and a half million different people watch videos on our YouTube channel last month. Only about one and a half million are subscribed. There are three million viewers on YouTube who watch our clips but aren't subscribed. Make sure you hit that

subscribe button because it is so important for the algorithm and for signaling to YouTube that our content is engaging enough for people to want to subscribe. There are three million of you out there and I am speaking to you today. Make sure to join the ranks of our YouTube subscribers. It's free. We will take a quick break and be back right after this. Something in your home that you use every day contributes to deforestation and climate change, and that's toilet paper in the US alone. Over 30 million trees each year are required to meet toilet paper demands contributing to deforestation, soil erosion, devastating loss of biodiversity. Our sponsor, Real Paper,

makes sustainable toilet paper that is 100 percent made from bamboo. A bamboo stock keeps growing. It can be harvested forever. It means that the soil and the ecosystem aren't disrupted. No carbon removing trees are cut down. The paper industry has a massive effect on deforestation and climate change. But you alone using bamboo toilet paper can make a positive impact because for the toilet paper that just one American uses in their lifetime, hundreds of trees are required. Put an end to that right now with real paper. The best part is the stuff is really great. It's just normal, soft toilet

paper. Real paper loves the David Pakman show. They're giving my audience 30 percent off your first order and free shipping. When you go to real paper dot com slash Pakman and use the code Pacman at checkout. That's our E.L. paper dot com slash Pacman. Use the code Pacman at checkout for 30 percent off and free shipping. The link is in the podcast notes. So yesterday I told you that Texas Republican Senator Ted Cruz was in New York City for the Astros Yankees game and he was brutally booed and heckled at Yankee Stadium. More substantively, yesterday he appeared on the New York City based talk show The View, and it was completely off the rails. One of the most bad faith interview performances I've seen in a very long time. And I want to go over some of this with you because it is so emblematic of how these folks operate in a fact free and also completely amoral

framework. The View co-host Anna Navarro, a lifelong Republican, but an anti Trump Republican. She confronts Cruz and says, how did you go from being against Trump and him calling your wife ugly to suddenly you support the guy. Take a look at this. Frankly, don't know how you get over your wife being called ugly. I don't know how you get over those kind of calumnies against your father, but you obviously have gotten over it today using a very different tune.

So tell us, were you lying then or are you lying now? Yeah, that's that's a loaded question there. I think a lot of people have the same question. It's a very different Ted Cruz that we're seeing. We are. I mean, would you not agree that that's very different Ted Cruz than today's Ted Cruz? What I would say is this. In 2016, we had a primary where Donald Trump and I beat the living crap out of each other. I'll tell you, Heidi laughed when he said that. My father laughed. By the way, my dad didn't just kill Kennedy. He's got Jimmy Hoffa. Ted, it was so funny when Donald Trump called me ugly. It was it's so funny.

It's like watching, you know, a romcom buried in the backyard. It was idiotic. And we went after each other. And at the end of the day, he won. And I had a decision to make in November of 2016. Yes. Am I going to stand on principles and maybe be on the outs with the president? Or do I want to start sucking up to keep access to power? He'd been elected president.

I got a responsibility to represent 30 million Texans. I could have decided my feelings are hurt. I'm going to take the ball and go home and not do my job. But if I was prepared to do that, I better be prepared to resign from my job because I have a responsibility. So what I did is I went and said, listen, we have an opportunity to make a difference for this country. And I want to roll up my sleeves and lead the fight to actually deliver on promises. We were talking a minute ago about the incredible booming economy. We saw seven million people get off of food stamps.

Seven million people and food stamps does not actually address how and why Ted Cruz got in line with Trump. And remember that if everybody laughed about Trump calling Heidi Cruz ugly back in 2016, why was it that in the immediate aftermath, Ted Cruz referred to Trump as a sniveling coward because of those comments and said, leave Heidi the hell alone. If everybody laughed and had a good time after that, why did he do it? Anna Navarro also confronts Ted Cruz with some of the specific things he said about Trump. What you said about him back in 2016 during the campaign. Let's take a look. I'm going to tell you what I really think about. This man is a pathological liar. True. He doesn't know the difference between truth and lies he lies

practically every word that comes out of his mouth the man is utterly amoral if morality does not exist for him true yeah so i have to ask you because you know i'm married to a Cuban man. I frankly don't know how you get over your wife being called ugly. I don't know how you get over those kind of calumny. OK, so then they go into the part that we already saw. Another interesting moment during this was that Ted Cruz just could not be in New York City and not get heckled. Climate activists interrupted the interview and then Whoopi Goldberg says, let us do our job. And it just gets completely crazy. It's very simple. If you look at inflation, the Nobel laureate economist, Milton Friedman, explained in the United States, inflation has one cause and one cause.

Inflation in the United States has one cause and one cause of it. And that is when the federal government spends too much money. Okay. We have seen trillions and trillions of dollars spent by Joe Biden and the Democrats just last year. Last year, the federal government took in $4 trillion in tax revenues, most money in history we've ever taken in. The problem is we spent nearly $7 trillion. And that's what we do. Cover climate. Excuse me, ladies, ladies, excuse us. Let us do our job. Let us do our job.

We hear what you have to say. You got to go. You got to let us do our job. All right. So then they start to get kicked out, but somehow then they get more energy and then they're back and then they end up having to mute everything and cut to commercial. The biggest reason people at home are saying, OK, is my life better today than it was two years ago? And I think for the vast majority of Americans, the answer is no. All right. So total chaos on The View. ABC spokesperson put out a statement saying that

three people in the audience interrupted The View and they were escorted out. These interviews are not going particularly well for Ted Cruz. But I have to tell you what if you see this through the eyes of right wingers and we're going to see things through the eyes of right wingers in a moment, you see a guy whose speech they are trying to suppress and that it is unhinged people doing it. So, you know, you and I know that this guy is the lowest of the low, truly. But understand that the right wingers see this and they go, look at those liberals. They don't want to let them speak and suppressing speech. And next, we are going to look exactly at what is going on in the minds of some of these people. MSNBC interviewed Pittsburgh area Trump voters in the lead up to the imminent election about January 6th. And I'm going to play some of this for you. And what you are going to see demonstrated in this clip is how effective Republican disinformation

has been. The stuff that they repeat January 6th was Antifa. The woman who was shot, Ashley Babbitt, was a hero. All of these things that you and I go, there's no evidence for this. Who could possibly believe this crap? Here are the people who believe this crap. And the most important message I have for you about it is the MSNBC didn't go and have to look in little crevices to find folks with these beliefs. This is a disturbingly representative sample of, I would estimate, somewhere between

one fifth and one third of the voting public. This is scary, dystopian stuff. Look at this and look at how weaponized their beliefs are. Doug Mastriano was at the insurrection and he was photographed breaching one of the restricted areas. Is that OK? Which area? Because I saw a video where Capitol officers were taking away barriers and unlocking opening doors. So that's the talking point. There was no trespassing. The officers let everybody in. I mean, they opened the gates. So it shouldn't be disqualifying for an elected official. If they participate in January 6th. He didn't strike anybody.

He didn't hurt anybody. And the only one that died was a protester there, not a Capitol police officer. An unarmed female veteran. That's the only one that died. That's the only one who died. A police officer. Remember, unarmed female veteran died. This is the whole thing where she she was a hero. She was there protesting peacefully and Bubba did die.

No, that's not that's not on site by that. That's because he shouldn't have been a police officer. It was one woman. So what do you make the support the police? Right. The guy who died of a heart attack, he just never had any business being in law enforcement. We back the blue overall of January six. I mean, it was watching that footage. It was pretty disturbing. I mean, there were people throwing excrement at the walls and it was the Capitol.

It looked a lot like Antifa's actions to me. Except on a much smaller scale, it looked the same as the Black Lives Matter riots. That's what I saw the similarities to be. Indianapolis, Burns, Kenosha. But so it's okay just because one side that you disagree with. I'm saying it's infiltrated for one. It's Antifa infiltrated. Now, understand, if you're listening, this is a group of all white people.

It's relevant only in so far as when we think about what is the group most susceptible, in a sense, to this type of misinformation, it does seem overwhelmingly to be right wing white, mostly male, but lately increasingly female voters. And that is exactly what we have here for the other anybody. I don't see anybody, anybody who caused property destruction that needs to be dealt with. You're there making your voice heard at the people's house, no less. Yeah, that's again, it's a fundamental constitutional right of an American citizen. And people should not be being held political prisoner. So this is the talking point of the rioters are being held as political prisoners, which

Marjorie Taylor Greene uses. I mean, you could spoon feed anything to these folks and they would buy it because of it for misdemeanors. That's East Germany. That's East Germany. Yeah, that's what's scary. It was an actual fiery but mostly peaceful protest. And the other ones that were the was a protest.

Legitimate in your eyes. I feel like is using it as their Reichstag fire. Oh, my God. That's exactly what they're using it as. Oh, my God. This is really, really scary stuff. Really scary stuff. Let's let's skip ahead and listen to a little bit more.

After people were still there and stuff. Yeah, but it's but it started while he was still speaking. And they talk about the fact that, oh, he didn't do anything for this amount of time. It's like, well, he was giving his speech. And right. So this is the argument that Trump couldn't have stopped what was happening because he was still speaking when it was happening. That's not true.

We all were there live. The breach happened well, well, well after Trump was long gone. The timing just is a lie. Why did Pelosi deny his request? Actually, we have several thousand national guards. Now, again, that's also a lie. Trump has insisted I requested 10,000 troops and Nancy Pelosi denied it. There is no evidence that Nancy Pelosi denied anything. But more importantly, there is no evidence Trump requested any such troops. There is simply no evidence. Trump says

it. No evidence of it. They believe it's not just some of the lies. They believe every lie. Well, it actually isn't in Pelosi's power to deploy national guard. She's Speaker of the House. She has no authority over that whatsoever. And frankly, I think that's a good thing. But then but even so, isn't she in charge of security? If there was that great of a risk that she was offered them, then why didn't she preemptively beef up Capitol police? But she does have this the authority to do. These are very serious brain worms.

And I know what the majority of there is something really wrong here. There is something very wrong where every lie they believe. And the most important question for us is it's very clear that just putting up good candidates who tell the truth and who actually care about constituents, it is not enough. So what has to happen? What has to happen? I don't know the answer. And that's maybe the scariest part of all of it. We'll have these clips on our Instagram. Find us on Instagram at David Pakman show. I want to tell you about something I use every day because it simplifies my life. I don't have hours to mathematically plan every meal or take multiple different supplements and vitamins to make sure I'm getting exactly what I want to get every single day. And the solution is our sponsor, Athletic Greens product, AG1. I've been taking AG1 for over a year. It's just great. It's just one small scoop of AG one

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is giving you a free year of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase when you go to athletic greens dot com slash Pacman. That's athletic greens dot com slash Pacman. The link is in the podcast notes. Well, you know, every once in a while it does happen that a guest cancels on us at the last second. And we had two choices today. Choice number one would have been cancel the show, throw the show in the toilet,

flush it 10 to 15 times. No show. The other option is let's open the phone lines very briefly and hear from just a few people in our audience. And, you know, I like people in the audience more or less as much as I like our guests. So it seems like a very good alternative. Let's do this via discord, which you can find at David Pakman dot com slash discord. And I don't even want to wait anymore. Let's just go right in and start with Mike from southeastern Pennsylvania. Mike, we've got the Oz Fetterman debate tonight. I know you'll be watching. Oh, yes, I will. Yeah. What are you expecting? Speaker 4 Oh, I think they're going to probably pick on Fetterman for his health conditions. Speaker 1 Yeah, I think so.

But that's my question to you. What was on your mind, Mike? Speaker 4 Oh, I was wondering why don't they pass a stamp tax to raise revenue? That's not taxable, like for like corporate jets or yachts or something like you. Sorry, did you say a stamp tax? Yeah. Pass the stamp tax for various luxury or excise items. Yeah.

So stamp taxes are basically sometimes they're called duties. That's D.U.T. Why they are taxes on specific types of property purchases. I mean, don't there already are a bunch, right? Like, isn't there like a yacht tax and a or is that state? I guess I don't know enough about it to know what's currently in place. Oh, yeah, I just noticed the inflation is really high for luxury items. So to clamp that down, why not just pass more duty taxes? Well, but I don't know that the big concern is that luxury goods that a tiny

portion of people can afford are expensive. My instinct was more as a way to increase government revenue. It would be something to look at. Right. Or why? Why would you be looking to do it? Speaker 4 00 00 00 00 Speaker 5 Yeah. To increase revenue. Oh, OK. And it also would save the post office. It would create like a sub stamp collection market that people would probably collect the stamps. Oh, boy, I think we have some confusion. Generally speaking, when people talk about a stamp tax, it's not about collectible stamps. It's a tax on a particular type of item. Oh, I know. But I say just create great stamps or create non fungible tokens,

something that people can trade with. Speaker 1 Oh, you're literally saying make stamps that people can collect. Speaker 3 Oh, yeah, definitely. Speaker 1 Oh, my goodness. Mike, I don't know if you're serious, but I appreciate the call. Thank you. All right. Very good.

Was that was that a joke? I can't even tell. Let's go to Gabriel from Albany, New York. Gabriel, welcome. Speaker 4 Hey, David, how's it going? It's going well. Good. I just had a question because I live in upstate New York. Yep. And as you know, this is a pretty rural Republican area. Oh, yeah. At least in the more rural aspects. But there's a lot of people in my surrounding circles that I've considered like kind and

especially intelligent people, as long as I've known them, who have really fallen prey to a lot of the current rhetoric surrounding the Republican Party. Yes. What do you think really changed in the past, probably 10 years? Because they often spout as an example of why they don't trust the government as like, oh, I'm, you know, as you grow older, you just see that you don't trust the government as like, oh, I'm you know, as you grow older, you just see that you don't trust the government more. Why do you think there's been such a massive distrust in government that makes people just like from skeptical to like completely conspiratorial? There has been an overt campaign from the right to say you can't trust the government, you shouldn't trust the government, the government can't be trusted. And of course, as most reasonable people know, there are certain things that it makes total

sense to have governments involved in. And there are other areas where it's perfectly fine to let basically markets allocate direct the allocation of resources. But it's been the following combination, if we zoom out, is what I would say. Declining education. Partisan media. Filter bubbles and echo chambers that are self-reinforcing on social media and a complete abandonment of policy by the American right wing and a replacement with exactly the types of bullet points and talking points that you're talking about. In some total, that's a lot working against us. Tell it. That makes sense. Yeah. All right. Gabriel from Albany, thank you very much for the call. We're just hearing from a few people. We had a guest cancellation and it lets us get on the phone and hear from

a variety of of great people. Let's go to Eric from Long Island. Eric, welcome to the show. What's on your mind today? Oh, hi, David. How's it going? It's going well. Yeah. So thanks for doing this last minute, I suppose. I didn't have too much to say today, but I'm sure you saw the news about how Clarence Thomas is starting to cover for Lindsey Graham. And did you have anything you wanted to say about that or is that going to get covered? It's the top story on today's show, which, of course, you wouldn't know because you are on today's show right now. And it becomes sort of this endless feedback loop. No, listen, Clarence Thomas's wife is an election denier, a January 6th adjacent individual in touch with all sorts of players in the insurrection and the riots. And like I said at the top of the show, I won't repeat myself fully, but he should have nothing to do with any legal decisions, even remotely

connected to the November of 2020 election. It's insane that he does. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's actually quite frightening how they're there. They're actually doing all of this in broad daylight. And it doesn't it seems like there's not much we can do about it. It feels like there's very little we can do about it. It feels like there's very little we can do about it.

That's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right. My friend, thank you very much. Appreciate that. Let's go next to Aiden from Alberta.

Aiden, welcome to the program. Aiden from Alberta. Aiden, I'm guessing you have the wrong audio device selected. Hello. Hello. Oh, I think I got it. You got OK. I'll make it quick since I wasted a little time there. Please. So Charlie Crist, very good last night, in my opinion. Oh, yeah. And one of the things I noticed is he used some common Republican talking points against DeSantis, specifically the gas prices. I noticed he attacked DeSantis on the gas prices thing, which I was wondering if you

think Democrats should do that more using those more kind of political arguments that the Republicans use against themselves. Speaker 1 Listen, I am not going to tell anybody to stop using whatever works. Against terrible people like Ron DeSantis, so if Charlie Crist saying, listen, you want to talk about the Biden gas prices, it's the DeSantis gas prices. They're off the charts here in Florida. If that works, use it.

You know, there's nothing immoral about that. You're not shooting anyone. You're not defrauding anyone. You're just really strategically choosing who to blame for something that's really a national phenomenon. In my heart of hearts, I don't think Biden nor DeSantis have much to do with gas prices, as I've said before. But it's the type of thing where I would say if it works, absolutely do it. Yeah, no, I completely agree. And yeah, thank you. Have a have a good rest of your show today. All right. Aiden from Alberta. Great to hear from you. Let's go next to Jasper from Brazil.

Jasper, welcome. Hi, David. How's it going? It's going well. So I wanted to ask you, I see countries like Argentina and Brazil, where I'm currently living, trying these same sorts of protectionist trade strategies over and over again, particularly when led by populist leftist leaders. And they often don't work to grow the local economy, but the opposite effect to sink the local currency. Do you think the left has some sort of populist trade policy problem? So when it comes to populism, I don't see populism really as being policy.

I see populism as being a rhetoric and a messaging strategy. So I would not say that there's a left populism trade policy problem because I don't think populism by definition is policy. Now, as applied to Argentina specifically, it's been one disastrous decision after another, after another by every administration. It's been Christina, Alberto, Macri. It's been just disastrous all the way down. And it is also true that the current debt situation, which is absolutely related to the IMF and World Bank history with Argentina, and we can't say that there is no responsibility or blame there is also

completely untenable that I don't know that you're even going to trade your way out of the problem anyway. So anybody who like the thing that will happen is depending on which hammer you have, or maybe better said, depending on whether you have a hammer or a drill, you see everything as either a nail or a screw in terms of saying the problem has been Christina and Alberto and others say, no, no, no, no, no. The problem has been Makri. No, no, no. The problem has been the IMF. It is decades of bad decisions upon bad decisions by bad leaders. And there's no one thing to blame. But no, I don't think it's a populism policy problem since populism isn't really a policy. It's a rhetoric. Speaker 3

OK, thanks. May I also ask you another question about Bolsonaro? The election is coming up on, I believe, Saturday. Speaker 1 Yeah, Sunday. And it or is it Saturday? No, it's Sunday. OK, Sunday. Yeah. And he seems pretty dangerous and it looks like he has a very good chance to win. What do you think could happen in the next sort of four years here in Brazil? I would defer to the real experts on Brazilian politics. I agree with you. He clearly has a shot to win. But I would ask someone who is following the Brazilian situation more closely. It doesn't make sense for me to be the person opining on that. OK, fair. Thank you. All right. My pleasure. There is Jasper from Brazil with a very, very interesting question.

Let's go next to Brian from Ireland. Brian, welcome. Hi, David, sir. How you doing, sir? Welcome to the program. Yeah. First time caller. Thanks a lot. I just want to say thanks very much for for covering these debates on the live streams. It's really interesting for someone looking from abroad at the American system. It's pretty interesting. Thank you. And my question kind of relates to that as well. Let's say if somebody in one of these TV networks put you in charge of arranging the debate, what kind of changes would you make to the format? And I think you're in agreement with me here that it's intensely frustrating. You know, there's never enough time to develop candidates positions, never enough time to

scrutinize. When Charlie Chris tried to ask DeSantis some basic questions, you know, about what he served four years. DeSantis plainly ignored him. And that was allowed by the moderators. No pushback whatsoever. So how would you arrange this kind of thing? So first and foremost, there have to be exchanges between the candidates. And in last night's debate between DeSantis and Chris, Chris kept trying to get DeSantis to say, I will or I won't commit to serving all four years. And DeSantis just looked like his brain was malfunctioning. And then the moderator would jump in and say, we have agreed that the candidates will not ask each other questions or address each other. They will only talk to the moderator. Now, the candidates seem to have insisted on that. Sometimes it's the

moderators and the organ is organizers who put that in. I think the way we're really going to learn more is we need longer periods of less structured back and forth between the candidates. Bring up the issue of abortion, for example. Frame it with a question. But then it doesn't have to be a half hour, but at least allow five minutes of open back and forth with the moderator being there to be able to jump in and say, well, hold on a second. Don't talk over each other. Chris just asked DeSantis this specific

question. DeSantis, can you answer that? And sort of managing the unstructured time to make sure everybody gets their points across. We would learn so much more from that than from 60 seconds. Now you respond to me for 30 seconds, but don't talk to each other. It's just it's too short. It's not the way we really make progress by talking through a moderator, talk to each other, but in a way where we can actually hear what everybody's saying. Yeah, I completely agree. That's the fundamental change. I would make more time on each topic and talk to each other. I don't see how anyone halfway sensible could disagree with you on that. You know, I'm just one that it seemed not to want it. You know, I think they see it as very risky.

The last thing for me as well, I also wouldn't have a live audience there because it just sends into a purse as well. But it was totally farcical. Yep, absolutely. Brian from Ireland. Appreciate the call. Thanks, David. All right.

Appreciate getting to speak to some of you today. We'll go to a quick break and be back with more show right after this. You also get access to our entire archive of every episode dating back a really long time and plenty of other awesome membership perks. Go to join Pacman dot com and use the coupon code better 21 for a huge discount. Join Pacman dot com. investigative journalist Bob Woodward has announced he will be releasing, I believe it's close to 20 audio recordings of his conversations with the failed former President Donald Trump. Some of these have started to trickle out and they are disturbing. Now, at this point, our threshold for saying something Trump said or did is disturbing has gotten quite high. I mean, looking at all of the lists of things that he did, it really has to be something extreme to get us to say, wow, that's crazy.

And that is indeed what we have here. Let's start with the first clip in which Donald Trump tells Bob Woodward, I have a plan for dealing with the pandemic. This was from, I believe, July of 2020. But I need to deploy it at a time that it will help my reelection, not at the time where it would save the most lives, not at the time that it would keep the most people healthy, at the time that it would be best for Trump's reelection. Listen to this. May, more than 70,000 Americans had already died from the virus. Now, two months after that, in July, Trump gave Woodward a ring and he said he finally had a

plan to deal with the pandemic. But Trump wanted to wait to release it until a time when it would better help him win reelection. Tom, you'll see the plan over the next four weeks. This is what we'll see. You'll see the plan, Bob next four weeks. This is what I've got. One hundred and six days. That's a long time. You know, if I put out a plan now, people won't even remember it. And I won the last election.

No, no. But it's not just put out the plan. It's executed. I am actually. You'll see it starting overtly, overtly saying if I do it now, people will have forgotten about it when it's time to vote. Not if I do it now, I might save more people. That's not a concern. Disgusting guy, completely amoral in every way. Immoral. In fact, I would argue Trump compares his meeting with Kim Jong Un, the North Korean

dictator in another clip to the sort of instant feeling of chemistry. When Trump meets a woman and just knows whether it's all going to happen, if you know what I mean, listen to this. You meet somebody and you have a good chemistry and there is a lot of stress. You meet a woman in one second, you know whether or not it's all going to happen. OK, we have very good chemistry together. You meet just strange. I mean, it's not it's not about, oh, it has romantic overtones necessarily, although there is some. Enamored feeling that we get from Trump about these dictator types, he seems enamored with the way that President Xi of China deals with drug dealers and he thinks

it's great. He seems enamored in a way with Putin's attitude, and he certainly seemed enamored with Kim Jong Un. Now, interestingly, another incredible moment from these recordings is when Trump reveals classified information to Bob Woodward about weapons systems and the number of weapons Russia has. And he he is just diarrhea of the mouth, classified information. Now I know, oh, the president can declassify whatever he wants. Sure. Do you think Trump is carefully considering the impact and prudency of revealing this information to what Rob Woodward? No, he's trying to brag. I have built a weapon system that nobody's ever had in this country before. We have stuff that you haven't even seen or heard about. We have stuff that Putin and she had never heard about before. Getting along with Russia is a good thing and a bad thing. All right. Especially because

they have one thousand three hundred and thirty two nuclear warheads. Trump just bragging to Bob Woodward about all of the things that he knows. And then maybe incredibly, Trump gives Bob Woodward letters from Kim Jong Un. Nobody else has them, but I want you to treat them with respect. I understand. And don't say I gave them to you. OK, I think it's OK. Normally, I wouldn't have given I wasn't going to give them to you. OK, I. But I think it's OK. Normally I wouldn't have given I wasn't going to give them to Bob. You know, would you make a photo set of them or something? No, I dictated them into a tape recorder. Isn't that the best what you make a photo stat of the letters or something? Interestingly, Woodward is sort of handling the documents with more care than Trump. And what I

mean by that is Woodward isn't creating physical copies that could then be lost. Bob Woodward seems to have more consideration for the sensitive nature of these documents than even Trump himself. These are just four little clips, four little previews of what may be to come from these audio tapes. I told you folks years ago, it will take years to learn the full insanity of what took place during that four year period. And indeed, that is that is the case. It is taking years for all of this stuff to come out, and it is disturbing as it is extraordinary. Hey, I have what I would call a giga cringe moment to play for you. This isn't like a big thing, but it's just a complete and total backfire. California gubernatorial Republican nominee Brian Dahl tried to make a Biden dementia

joke during his debate over the weekend with California Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom. Now, it's not like Gavin Newsom needs any help. As I've said before, Newsom is excellent in talking about the insanity of the American right, but also in direct conversations with right wingers. I dare you, I double dare you to watch this clip without cringing. Look at what happens when Brian Dahl tries to do a Biden dementia joke and it just falls humiliatingly flat. Did Joe Biden legitimately win the 2022 election against Donald Trump? Yeah, actually, he did win the election. But the big question is, does he know that? That's

what I wonder sometimes. But I want to talk about. You're talking about he being who? Joe Biden. What do you mean by that? Well, yes, I agree that he won the election, but I wonder sometimes if he actually realizes that he's president of the United States. Of course he recognizes, and that's why you're insulting the president of the United States. Of course he understands he's president. God, what a loser. Silence, silence. One of the most awkward silences of the entire debate season there. I've seen that five times now and I still get uncomfortable from how awkward and how flat it falls. It is not looking good in case you were wondering for Brian Dahl in California.

The latest polling right now has it at Newsom plus twenty three, twenty three. And that is expected to be an absolutely incredible drubbing. Marjorie Taylor Greene. Yes, the radical and repugnant Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene is reportedly being considered to be Donald Trump's running mate in twenty twenty four for months, reports Business Insider. Trump has repeatedly discussed choosing Marjorie Taylor Greene as his 2024 running mate. This is per Robert Draper of The New York Times magazine, as told to The Daily Beast. Trump is considering Greene. This won't come as a surprise to you because of her unflagging loyalty to him. Speaking on this week's episode of The Daily Beast's The New Abnormal podcast, Draper claimed the discussions have been ongoing for months. It's been discussed repeatedly. Now, to be fair, I mean, how many of these conversations has Trump had with

other people? What is Trump concerned about most of all in a VP after the Mike Pence experience? Loyalty, loyalty. Trump needs someone who will, quote, fight for him to overturn a presidential election. He has every reason to expect that Green would be by his side and would be his proximate warrior. Earlier this week, Green told Draper she's discussed with Trump the possibility of serving as his running mate. She said she would be honored to serve, but the GOP establishment would not want it.

So listen, she's completely out of her mind. Crazy. She is. Loyal is not even the right word, but yes, she's unendingly loyal to Trump in the sense of following whatever disastrous instinct or talking point Trump is distracted by that week as the latest shiny object. I don't know, on the one hand, why Trump thinks it would help him to have Marjorie Taylor Greene and as his running mate.

But in all seriousness, let's not write it off. And what I mean by that is remember that Trump won the Republican primary of 2016. Trump then won the presidential election. You could come to me with tears in your eyes and say, Sir, Trump is considering Jeffrey Dahmer, where he's still alive as VP. And I'd say that's insane. And he still might win the most depressing era in a long time for sure. And I don't think Green necessarily hurts Trump. Now, on the other hand, I don't know that she necessarily helps. And what I mean by that is like in all seriousness, does Marjorie Taylor Greene bring any new voters to Donald Trump? I don't know that she does. If you are in the Romney

wing of the Republican Party or the Liz Cheney wing of the Republican Party and you don't like Democrats, but you're just not sold on Trump. If Trump picks Romney, maybe you go with the Trump Romney ticket. Now, that's not being considered. I'm just saying maybe that gets you to go over to the Trump side. But if you're already in kind of like the Romney Kinzinger Liz Cheney wing of the Republican Party. Does Trump picking Marjorie Taylor Greene get you over to Trump? It doesn't seem like it. And so on the one hand, I don't think because of how delusional and dangerous and dystopian this Republican Party and electorate is, I don't know that there's anyone that would really hurt Trump. The thing about Marjorie Taylor Greene is I don't think she

helps Trump find new voters, which is what he needs to do if he hopes to defeat Joe Biden or whoever it is on the Democratic side in November of 24, because he needs to find some new voters relative to 2020. I don't know that Marjorie Taylor Greene helps him do that, but I want to hear from you. Let me know. Our voicemail number is two one nine two. David P. Here is a great voicemail from someone who appreciates all of the debate coverage that we have been doing this election season. David, sir, this is Caitlin from Florida. Thank you. I just wanted to call to thank you for your coverage of all of these debates. I've really been enjoying your coverage. I missed the DeSantis Chris debate last night. So I went to the gym and started your live stream to listen to it this morning.

And I was delighted to be surprised by your new David Pakman and Mike Pillow remix. Yes. So there I was lifting weights to the sound of that song. Well, that is that is an absolutely heartwarming thing to hear. Two things on this one. We have streamed probably a dozen different debates so far this election season. One of the most interesting ones is tonight. Mehmet Oz versus John Fetterman. I hope you will join me at 730 p.m. Eastern on YouTube, Twitch and Facebook. And secondly, yes, Chris Barrios putting together one of the best remixes ever of anything we

have done. Listen to just a little bit of this masterpiece. I'm worried about my espresso machine. I'm not. That could be your headline. It's not a joke. I'm just I'm worried about my lathe. Oh, they're like in a period around just pillow.

Speaker 1 My computer for the back end data just exploded. I'm trying to get rid of the machine, melt it down, turn them into prison bars. Hello. I'm not. Speaker 1 OK, you get the point. Anyway, remixes, debates, all of it. Join me tonight at 730 p.m. Eastern Oz versus Fetterman. We've got a great bonus show for you today. We will talk about the new British prime minister, Rishi Sunak. We will talk about Mark Hamill, by the way, a fan of the David

Pakman show, fan of the David Pakman show, Mark Hamill sending 500 drones to Ukraine. And we will talk about Adidas or as some call it, Adidas cutting ties with Kanye West after the anti-Semitism explosion. All of those stories and more on today's bonus show. Sign up at join Pacman dot com.