The David Pakman Show - 10/6/25: US descends into chaos as ICE goons run wild

Episode Date: October 6, 2025

-- On the Show: -- Rep. Maxwell Frost, Democrat from Florida and the first Gen Z member of Congress, joins us to discuss the government shutdown, Trump's immigration policy, tariffs, and much more�� -- Reports document chaos in Chicago and Los Angeles where Donald Trump’s ICE agents create violent incidents, federal officers clash with citizens, and crowds intervene to stop detentions -- Trump deploys National Guard troops across state lines in Oregon and Illinois against governors’ objections, and the Department of Homeland Security posts a religious recruitment tweet -- Trump gives a confused speech to Navy servicemembers claiming he warned about Osama bin Laden a year before 9/11 and demands credit -- Trump gives incoherent answers to reporters and appears disoriented and unaware of ongoing events, raising concerns about his fitness for office -- Karoline Leavitt claims illegal immigrants cost Americans in emergency rooms, and gets corrected with facts about healthcare law and EMTALA -- Trump disappears for several days without explanation during a critical week, returns late, and delivers a poor speech to Navy servicemembers -- Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem is denied access to a restroom in an Illinois municipal building -- While hosting Saturday Night Live, Bad Bunny triggers conservatives by saying they have four months to learn Spanish before his Super Bowl halftime performance -- On the Bonus Show: The Supreme Court takes up cases testing Trump’s presidential power, the Saudi comedy festival sparks controversy with many American comics participating, a petition to cut congressional pay during shutdowns gains traction, and much more…  🌳 MyHeritage: Discover your family roots for FREE for 14 days at https://davidpakman.com/myheritage 🩳 SHEATH Underwear: Code PAKMAN for 20% OFF at https://sheathunderwear.com/pakman 🥐 Wildgrain: Use code PAKMAN for $30 off & free croissants FOR LIFE at https://wildgrain.com/pakman ⚠️ Ground News: Get 40% OFF their unlimited access Vantage plan at https://ground.news/pakman -- Become a Member: https://davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe to our (FREE) Substack newsletter: https://davidpakman.substack.com -- Get David's Books: https://davidpakman.com/echo -- TDPS Subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow -- David on Bluesky: https://davidpakman.com/bluesky -- David on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow (00:00) Chicago & LA ICE chaos (10:19) Trump deploys National Guard (17:46) Trump claims Osama warning (24:16) Trump disoriented with press (28:03) Leavitt on healthcare costs (36:16) Maxwell Frost interview (55:12) Trump disappears, poor speech (1:01:12) Noem restroom denial (1:06:20) Bad Bunny SNL controversy  

Welcome, everybody. Hope you had a good weekend. You know, sometimes Republicans end up being right. And when they're right, I will be the first to admit it. But sometimes these MAGA Republicans are right, not for the reason they claim to be. Let me explain. The MAGA right has been claiming that it is absolute chaos and anarchy. the streets of the United States of America.

And they are finally kind of correct. If you look this weekend and we're going to look at some of the videos, it was absolute chaos. It was lawlessness on the streets of many American cities. But it wasn't because of immigrants. It wasn't because of migrants just working to feed their families. It wasn't because of on Trifa. It wasn't Black Lives Matter. It was not Marxists.

It wasn't socialists or communists or whatever. It was a result of Donald Trump's goons, Trump's ICE, Trump's deportation forces. Trump's actions are what have finally gotten us to the very chaos and lawlessness on the streets that they originally said were the reason for doing any of this stuff in the first place. I'm going to give you some examples. There are important historical precedents. There is context that is relevant to this idea of generating chaos to justify subsequent crackdowns. You know the playbook.

If you've heard Ruth Ben-Giott talk to us about it on the show. If you've heard an Applebaum talk to us about it on the show, we know the playbook. And they are finally getting the very chaos they claim they were trying to fix here are. And some of this stuff is difficult to watch. I'm going to be very upfront with you about that. This isn't a trigger warning. It's just like this is really horrible sickening stuff. Here is Trump's ice slamming an unarmed American citizen to the ground.

This one took place near the corner of West 37th and South Kedzi in the Brighton Park neighborhood of Chicago. Take a look at this. Step back. Step back. I'm on a public floor. He's not doing anything. You're seeing that.

So body slamming, et cetera, et cetera, Magipatamians and Magidonians will defend this one by saying, well, the guy did swear. Oh, my goodness, swearing, can you imagine? the free speech absolutist, this guy swore. And also once he got body slammed, he didn't go limp. So he was resisting. Therefore, he deserves all of it. Absolute chaos on the streets of Chicago, thanks to Trump's goons.

We have another video of immigration agents run off. And a man was actually saved from one of these kidnapping abductions. was on the area of 63rd and Costner Avenue in Chicago. We're going to just play a little bit of this. They spend minutes trying to take this guy. Ultimately, a crowd swarms and the agents run off and ultimately drive off. But this is not. This is not the way this country is supposed to function. This is not the way law enforcement is supposed to function. All right. So now they've got a guy.

Some of their masks are slipping, literally and figuratively, they've got a guy. All right. And so as we will scrub through here and you will see they continue trying to take the sky, more individuals join, they continue, they continue, they continue, it starts to attract the attention of bystanders and as you can see this continues and continues and continues and ultimately what you will see here as they have the guy sort of pinned is that ultimately they run off All right. So ultimately, they let this guy go.

The crowd, presumably just getting too big, agents starting to think this could get out of control. Let's get out of here without this guy. Now, I'm the first to acknowledge to you that a lot of these individuals are doing what in the context of law order and due process would be considered resisting arrest. But the issue is that many of them are being denied due process at the get go. So you all know that I am not someone that is a scoff law by nature. I don't go around saying break the law, do this, that. And the other thing, we should work within the legal system.

You all know that. But what we have here is a system that is fundamentally outside of that already. We have a system that is denying people due process. We have a system that is sending masked agents in some cases. in unmarked vehicles without presenting any kind of identification. Is this even law enforcement in some of these cases? And so we really do have to say, on the one hand, I am a supporter of due process and cooperation and I believe most law enforcement are doing it for the right reason.

But we have a situation here that is very different. And when you have an authoritarian president that is deputizing go and from unmarked vehicles without presenting credentials and covering their faces with masks, snatch people up, of course you are going to get chaos. Now, the issue is the chaos is part of what authoritarian's want to then say, well, it's getting really crazy. We've got to now send in the military, which by the way is what Trump is doing and we'll get to that. Here's another video. Jake Sheridan from the Chicago Tribune posted this video. He says an ice truck was run off thanks to about two dozen people surrounding it after it was parked outside of a daycare and subsequently

a plant store. All right. All right. So, off goes the unmarked ice truck. And then finally, and we could do this all day. I'm just giving you a sampling. This one's from Los Angeles. Four male officers tackle a woman outside an ice facility. And they start even ripping her clothes off. Why are you doing? What the fuck are you doing? What the fuck's wrong with you guys? You are not allowed to detain me.

All right. And then off comes her sweatshirt and it goes on and it gets worse. and it gets worse and more difficult to watch from there. So of critical importance here, the fact that the chaos is being caused by Trump's goons does not mean that we don't have to worry about further escalation. In fact, that's exactly why we have to worry about it. It is a classic authoritarian technique. Generate chaos to justify more militarization and more crackdowns.

That's the playbook. Look at how crazy things have gotten. We've got to clamp down more. do curfews, let's do paperwork checks on everybody. I'm not saying they're going to do that, but that's what we've seen in authoritarian regimes. You create chaos and then you say, we're going to get out there to restore order. You're going to restore order from the chaos that you caused. We saw it in 1930s Germany, street violence between brown shirts and communists then became the justification for the Nazi police state. In Chile, Pinochet used social unrest as a pretext for his

coup. In the U.S. Nixon's law and order rhetoric turned the anti-war protesters into political theater to try to win election. So this is what we call manufactured chaos. You could also say it's engineered disorder. And it's meant to get some people to go, we need more policing. We need the police to be stronger because look at how chaotic it is. We need bigger budgets for the crackdowns. We need fewer rights for people. Take rights and ask questions later. And the worst part is that It is working. You've got right wing media saying, look at this lawlessness under Trump without mentioning it's his lawlessness.

It's his own agents creating the violence. So now local police end up kind of caught between defending their cities and being ordered to assist federal agents in carrying out these raids and treating neighborhoods like occupied zones. And this is how authoritarianism grows. It's not a coup. It's not a declaration. the normalization of violence, the normalization of fear. And unfortunately, history tells us what comes next. Because when regimes use fear to justify repression, people end up saying, I'm going to

trade some of my liberty for safety. We need it. And they end up usually getting neither. This is what law and order looks like under Donald Trump. Chaos created from the top to crush dissent from the bottom. And the criminality didn't stop. with this, and that's what I want to delve into next. Over the weekend, Donald Trump again pushed the limits of presidential power. He deployed troops into cities whose governors explicitly said no, whose mayors explicitly said no, while the Department of Homeland Security sent an official recruitment tweet mixing religion and politics also against the law.

And so Donald Trump and his administration broke multiple laws. They got called called out by courts. They got called out by governors. They violated the constitution itself, but they don't care. Start in Portland. A Trump appointed federal judge. Trump appointed federal judge issued an emergency order saying you cannot federalize the Oregon National Guard.

Can't do it. There's constitutional limits. You simply can't use military forces for civilian law enforcement. That order will hold until October 18th, but Trump didn't back off. authorized 300 California National Guard troops instead to cross state lines into Oregon, which Gavin Newsom, the governor of California said is a breathtaking abuse of power. He's right. It is.

And in Chicago, Trump sent 300 Illinois guard troops over the objections of Governor J.B. Pritzker. Officials say that the White House gave the state an ultimatum. You either mobilize these troops or we're going to override you. you and weaponize the National Guard for political purposes. Now, all of this violates the Posse Cometatus Act that bars federal military from enforcing domestic law. It's illegal. Courts have already ruled Trump's deployments like the one in Los Angeles broke that law, but they do not care. And while all of this was happening, the Department of Homeland Security's official X account put out a nasty excretion that said, quote,

love God, save America with a link to join.ice.gov, the recruiting page for ICE. That is a federal agency using religious language and a recruitment link for the official government channel. And that raises red flags under the establishment clause under the Hatch Act, which bans political messaging from government accounts. And it is a weekend of lawlessness for the Trump administration. It is not law and order which they promised. It was lawlessness dressed up as authority. And he tried to deploy soldiers into communities that didn't ask for them. He tried flipping states against their will.

He used a federal account to fuse religion and state power. All of this is illegal. Courts are trying to push back. Governors are preparing lawsuits, but can anyone stop this? Does any institution have the, not the authority, they have the authority, but do they have the ability? Does it have the teeth to actually deal with what is going on? Authoritarian theater at its worst.

And the question is, will anyone actually be able to enforce the law? Will there be any consequences for this insanity? I fear the answer is no. And in the midst of this, we're going to get to it later in the show. began missing for days with no explanation. Caroline Levitt panicking when confronted with the lawlessness of what's going on. Christy Nome, by the way, the head of the Department of Homeland Security, left to poop on the sidewalk, denied entry to bathrooms, leaving her scrambling for a toilet.

And then Bad Bunny has become a cultural flashpoint triggering these magas to high heaven. They don't even realize Puerto Ricans or American. So this was one of the wackiest weekends that I can remember in a very long time. We're going to have all of it for you. Make sure that you're getting my daily dispatches on substack. You can find them at substack. David Pakman.com. Great to have you.

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I think you will too. Head over to sheathunderware.com slash Pacman and get 20% off with code Pacman. The link is in the description. The David Packman Show is an independent progressive media program. funded primarily by our audience. The most direct ways to fund the show are to grab a membership at join packman.com or to get a substack paid subscription at substack. Davidpacman.com. You can also do both. I think there's about three or four hundred people that have both a website membership and a substack paid subscription. Really appreciate all of you and want to send an extra thank you to our newest

website members, James Stevenson, Mary Tennant, and Michael McLean. I hope I'm pronouncing McCleeman correctly. Thanks to all of you. You can sign up at join packman.com. Read all about the member benefits. Does Donald Trump even know what year it is? After being missing for days and showing up nearly an hour late keeping Navy service members waiting for him, Donald Trump showed up and said he wrote to Osama bin Laden a year ago, wait a second, a year ago, no, a year before 9-11, and he deserves some credit for it. What? This was a speech to the Navy in Norfolk, Virginia, Norfolk, Virginia, Virginia, geez, Donald

Trump saying the following. I want to be politically correct anymore. And history will never forget that it was the seals who stormed the compound at Osama bin Laden and put a bullet in his head. Remember that. And please remember I wrote about Osama bin Laden exactly one year ago, one year before he blew up the World Trade Center. And I said, you got to watch Osama bin Laden. And the fake news would never let me get away with that statement unless there is true, but I said one year before to Pete Hegseth, I said one year before Whizpeed.

You said it to Hegseth. What? In the book, I wrote, whatever the hell the title, I can't tell you, but I can tell you there's a page in there devoted to the fact that I saw somebody named Osama bin Laden, and I didn't like it, and you got to take care of him. They didn't do it a year later, he blew up the World Trade Center, so we got to take a little credit because nobody else is going to give it to me, you know, the old story? Trump wants credit. Now, I know that Donald Trump isn't literally saying he should get credit for

9-11 happening. He wants credit for warning us about Osama bin Laden. But he is completely disoriented once again. This is a feeble addled man. By the way, Trump's also saying things that are nonsense. The CIA began pretty aggressively tracking Osama bin Laden back in the mid-90s. There was a unit set up in 96 focused on al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden. They've been aware of him since the late 1980s. It's all wacky. It's all completely crazy. And by the way, the reason Donald Trump says whatever the book is called is because there

was a book published under Trump's name around 2000. And it has like the most minor passing reference to Osama bin Laden. The reason Trump can't remember the name of the book is because a ghostwriter wrote it for him. Donald Trump not only can barely read, he certainly can't write either. Donald Trump then started talking to Navy service members in one of the most politicized speeches to a branch of the armed forces that we have seen in a long time. Trump started talking about a lawsuit and he lied about the outcome of the lawsuit. Lies.

In the Gulf of America. No, it's called the Gulf of America now and nobody's playing games with it. We got sued by the Associated Press and they lost. In fact, the judge was so good, he said he's calling it the Gulf of America. He's got all the approvals. You have to do that too to the very liberal associated press. They got thrown out of court. In fact, they're almost not allowed to cover me anymore because of that.

It's a big hit. Those are all lies. The AP is not almost not allowed to cover Donald Trump. I know that in his authoritarian wet dream, that's the way that it would be. But the judge actually ruled in favor of the Associated Press. and said the Associated Press has First Amendment protections. If the government opens its doors to some journalists, then it can't shut doors to journalists based on their opinions and that the Constitution requires that.

Now, Trump then went fully political with the Navy saying we have a little gnat that's GnAT and we've got to get it off our shoulder that nat is called the Democrats. But we have to take care of this little That's on our shoulder called the Democrats. They want to give all of our money to illegal aliens that pour into the country. And you know, I have a bigger heart than they do. But the problem is when you do that, they come in by the millions. Everybody wants that. So you can't do it. Millions, millions, they can't do it. This is a disgusting speech. And another, I hate how many boxes were checking out of the authoritarian playbook. Another thing authoritarian's love to do because they recognize,

that being able to get away with it often depends on is the military on your side or isn't the military on your side. Authoritarians love to propagandize to the military. And part of it is also about inducing fear. It's not just propagandizing to the military to try to get them on your side genuinely. But it's also about making them wonder if I'm not on Trump's side, if I don't go out and do his bidding, whatever it might be, what consequences might I suffer? It's a way that authoritarian get the military in line because they know they need the military. After this completely pathetic and humiliating speech was over, Donald Trump capped it off with a little bit of the double jerk dance as YMCA played. What a world we live in.

You know, I go back and forth between when the history books teach about this, I hope that they represent this era for the humiliation and embarrassment that it was. And then I go to, I hope that there isn't a lot in the history books about Trump because it's been so bad. But it's important to learn about things that were bad. If it wasn't, if it is important to learn the true story. of slavery, and it is, if it's important to learn the true story of the civil rights movement, and of course it is, then it probably is important for future generations to learn about

the atrocities of this administration. And then the next question sort of becomes, where does the military ultimately land? That's a question that we are ultimately going to get back to. But first, we've got to hear what is happening with regard to the shutdown and job losses. And as you can imagine, it's not good. A demented and visibly confused Donald Trump spoke to the press on the way to or on the way back from his speech to the Navy in Norfolk, Virginia. And Donald Trump sort of let the cat out of the bag, which is the entire point of this government shutdown in which we now find ourselves is to blame Democrats.

And even though Donald Trump has said he is going to take the opportunity of the shutdown to actually fire a bunch of people. lay people off permanently end a lot of federal government positions. Trump is going with it's the Democrats. The Democrats are causing so many job losses. Listen to this. You're both going to get hiring federal employees that during the government. It's taking place right now.

It's all because of the Democrats. The Democrats are causing the loss of a lot of jobs with their, it's a shutdown. It's their shutdown. It's their shutdown. shut down. And I hope everybody likes what's the presidential walk of fame. You know that? Have you seen the, it's beautiful, is that? Presidential Walker fame. Thank you very much. Again, congratulations to the Navy. They did a great job today. Thank you very much. Donald Trump is talking about a sidewalk when he cavalierly goes. A lot of jobs being lost.

Thanks to the Democrats. And by the way, you see my walk presidential walk of shame over here? It's a sidewalk. Trump is pointing to a sidewalk. When Trump was asked days after the murder of Charlie Kirk, how are you holding up with this? I mean, he was a friend of yours. Trump goes, oh, pretty good. And have you seen my new ballroom construction that they're doing or the Rose Garden or whatever the hell construction project it was?

This is a guy who does not care. People are losing their jobs. It's because Trump said, we're going to fire people while the shutdown is going on. He blames Democrats, but he doesn't even really care that much about it. He just switches to talking about a sidewalk. Trump was then asked about an attack that took place in the Caribbean. Does Donald Trump have any details? The answer is, of course, not.

He is going to have to get back to you on that one. Yesterday night in the Caribbean, could you get more details about that? My people will give you those details. Oh, boy, a.k.a. I don't know a damn thing about it. If Biden had ever been asked about something and said, I don't know anything about it. I haven't been briefed about that. It would have been three days of coverage on right wing media. Trump is regularly asked about things. What about the drone incursion? What about what happened in Denmark? What about the service members killed in Lithuania? What about the attack in the Caribbean? We're going to get back to you on that.

This is you're you're telling me about it for the first time right now we're going to have to get back to you about it. This is considered acceptable and this I believe relates directly to Donald Trump being missing for days again. We're going to come back to that a little bit later in the show. But one of the things that I can assure you is that this is a very different standard than Joe Biden used to be held to. If Joe Biden even stumbled on an answer, it was a red alert. And And you could say a lot of things about Joe Biden, and I said a lot of them, including he never should have run again. But there were no instances where Biden was asked about something and said, I have no idea.

This is the first time hearing about it. Someone else is going to have to get back to you. Never happened. Happens every week with Trump. And I guess it's excused. He gets an excused absence for this one from MAGA. Caroline Levitt is in an increasingly untenable position. She is regularly hit with brutal fact checks and she cannot do anything about it.

Her own legacy as secretary as a press secretary is beleaguered to say the least, but at the same time, she's defending the indefensible. Leavitt almost got it here when it comes to undocumented migrants receiving emergency room care. She almost stumbled across the truth, but not quite. Listen to this. I love this clip. And it is an undisputed fact, a fact that under the Biden administration, illegal aliens were absolutely receiving taxpayer-funded health care benefits. In fact, in fiscal year 2024, Medicaid costs for emergency services for illegal immigrants skyrocketed by 142% from the previous year to $9.1 billion. That's $9.1 billion taxpayer dollars that were going to emergency services for illegals.

President Trump's last full fiscal year under his first administration and Joe Biden's last full fiscal year, Medicaid spending on emergency services for illegal immigrants nearly tripled. There was an increase of 196 percent between 2020 and 2024. And I have a chart here for you, and I'm more than happy to email it to you. I'd also like to add because some were asking dishonest questions yesterday about emergency rooms. In Southern California, according to health care professionals in 2023 under the Biden administration, Southern California's, quote, entire health care system was being bombarded with illegal immigrants and forcing American patients to endure longer wait times.

In Denver, Colorado, the CEO of Denver Health stated that 8,000... Listen carefully because she almost gets it here. ...illegal immigrants made 20,000 visits to the city's health system in 2023, leaving an uncompensated bill totaling over $10 million. So when a legal alien goes to the emergency room, who's paying for it? the American taxpayer. She almost gets it. When an illegal alien, she says, goes to the emergency room, who's paying for it, the American

taxpayer, and she's almost stumbling across a really important aspect of this. When anyone without insurance goes to the ER, Americans pay for it. Doesn't matter if they're documented or undocumented. That's why we've been saying for decades, give everybody health care. Because using the emergency room as your primary care is really expensive for everybody. Now, you might say, well, but David, that's only because the ER legally has to treat people. Just allow ERs to send people away if they're undocumented or don't have coverage or whatever. Think about that for a second.

If hospitals could refuse care based on ability to pay or immigration status, first of all, it lets people die in waiting rooms. Like it allows letting people die in waiting rooms. You're at the hospital. This is the place where they can do stuff to save your life. But we're going to check immigration status, ability to pay and just let some people die in the waiting room. That's something as a rich country we're going to be okay with. What kind of sick moral code allows that? Someone having a heart attack, a pregnant woman in labor, a kid with appendicitis.

If they can't prove insurance or citizenship, let them die in the waiting room. That is a death lottery. That's not a health care system. The reason that ERs are required to treat and stabilize people is because before 1986, hospitals actually did dump patients. They would send poor people or uninsured people in taxis to specific public hospitals or get rid of the mid crisis. And so Congress stepped in and said, this is the United States of America.

If you show up, we must stabilize you immediately. and deal with the paperwork later this you know there's very few moral lines in our system that still hold that one still holds and it's a good one as far as immigration status think about that an ER nurse needs to now investigate the immigration status of people they're bleeding out when did you come here are you from the United States or not do you have a passport oh you're having a heart attack where's your uh certificate of natural It's absurd. Hospitals are not immigration enforcement. They're there to help people stay alive. If we start deciding who deserves care based on paperwork, we are not a civilized

country. And unfortunately, when these Republicans talk about this libertarian utopia, they claim could exist. They are indeed talking about a far less civilized status quo. One more of these clips with Caroline Levitt. She was asked about the layoffs under the shutdown. Her answer is not great. And you just said this is an unenviable choice, that this is an unfortunate consequence. But the president has described this as an unprecedented opportunity to lay off additional workers. He's posted a video, likening Russ vote to the Grim Reaper.

So which is this? Is this an opportunity to fire more workers or an unfortunate consequence? Look, the president likes to have a little fun every now and then, and I think both things can be true at the same time. The Democrats have given the administration this opportunity, and we don't like laying people off. Nobody takes joy in that around here. And if you think that, then I think that's very sad. You view the, the White House and our staff is wanting to put people out of work. Nobody wants to do that. But sometimes in government, you have to make tough decisions.

It's a joke. The president likes to have a little fun. It's a joke that's not very funny. And when Caroline says, we don't, nobody takes pleasure at taking jobs away from people. Yes, you do. Look at all of the roundups that are happening at home depots and daycares. I mean, you do seem to take joy in taking jobs away from people. That's exactly what they've been doing and they've been bragging about it. They've been bragging about these roundups. So Caroline Levitt is increasingly in an untenable position. I don't say this because I feel bad for her.

She's chosen to do this. She has chosen despite the increasingly large cross necklaces that she wears hanging from her neck and you can see that boy did she have a big one on yesterday the day of this briefing um despite all of that she is choosing to continue to lie in this way now we are going to have broader analysis of this on our full podcast if you're watching a youtube clip understand that this youtube clip is part of our daily one hour longer than one hour podcast you can get the full podcast for free on any podcast app special Spotify and Apple Podcasts are two of the big ones.

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your subscription at wildgrain.com slash Pacman. The link is in the description. It is great to welcome to the show for the first time, Congressman Maxwell Frost, representing the 10th district in Florida. the first Gen Z member of Congress and a number of other accolades we were chatting about. We both play drums and many other extracurriculars. It's really good to have you. You know, a lot of people in my audience have been wanting to hear from you.

So I appreciate you being here. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. So, I mean, listen, I guess to start somewhere, we are in the middle of a government shutdown that the Mago wing of the Republican Party and really the Republican Party in general is trying to blame on Democrats. We have a couple of important things happening in 2025 from the standpoint of voting, including this California redistricting initiative from Governor Newsom and some off your elections.

We're kind of pointing towards 2026 where I believe it's a potentially major inflection point. I think the reason my audience wanted to hear from you to a degree was both generationally and ideologically, you represent change in a lot of different ways. And many in my audience, we've heard from everybody. We've heard from senators, congresspeople, governors. My audience is a little bit sort of like, do we have the right people in charge in the Democratic Party to push us forward here?

So hearing from you, what's your sense right now of the Democratic Party's leadership, messaging, and vision going into 26? Well, you know, I think and something I've been talking a lot about is the fact that we need an affirmative agenda, right? It's not enough just to run against something. And this is something that I believed in far before I became an elected official, right? As an organizer, this is something that you focus on, not giving people something to vote against, but something they vote for. And the fact of the matter is, we're appointed time in our country where people are very desperate. Wealth inequality is at its worst, which means that for working people are being siphoned

out of the middle class and being put into what I call the working for more and more and more. And what this is doing is it's creating a desperation in our people where they will suspend their values and beliefs on a lot of different issues because the thing right in front of them, taking care of their family, being able to have health care and housing and food and all these things is at risk. And this is part of the reason why we saw so many people who typically might vote for a Democrat or typically, you know, if you were to ask them, are you conservative? They'd say no. That's why a lot of them ended up voting for Trump or not voting at all. And it's something that we see, you know, we were talking about before about South America. I was just, I was in

El Salvador earlier this year on the Kilmore, Kilmore-Obrigo-Garcia case. You got to speak with a lot of people from civil society about this is a country where, what did that president win by 80 or 90%? I mean, something ridiculous. But 80% of the country doesn't agree with him on all the issues or wouldn't even align with him. But it's that it got so bad in terms of safety that people suspended their beliefs on a lot of other things. to handle the one situation. That's how people like Trump get elected. Fascists and authoritarian don't come to power when everyone's doing good, when everybody has health care, when everyone has enough resources for the family. It happens in times of desperation.

And what we have to do as a party is we have to understand that, not in terms of just how we talk about the issues. It's not just about identifying the right issues, but it's about providing big, bold, transformational solutions that people see themselves represented in. Like, oh, that thing would change my life would like make it way easier for me to live in this country and and that's what I think we really need to get with the program on no one's interested in like this one bill that would fix some things for some people around the edges if you're within this income back bracket and you'll get it in four to eight years like that it doesn't work it's not a winner politically and it's honestly not good policy especially in a political system like ours where in four years the next person can

undo the whole thing and you never see that policy come to fruition and it's It's like this thing that happens over and over again. And I guess what I'm talking about broadly is the fact that the kind of neoliberal policies, I think we're going to have to put that aside and take a step back and look at big, bold transformational change. And I think in one way, Trump is really showing us the potholes in this system that we have. And the question is whether or not we, when we're back in power and even now, do we fill them? And that's like, I think that's the biggest test for our party right now.

What do we run on it? We went on it and then most importantly do it because you get a lot of people who say the Democrats only have a communication problem. I think that's part of it. But that would mean, well, we do everything right, but not enough people know about it. I think there's a doing problem as well in terms of what we run on and what we do. So there's a few things there, but I'm actually pretty optimistic in this moment. I think for the first time in my lifetime, there is no democratic establishment right now. Some people might disagree. agree with me when they hear that. But an establishment is when all the top power brokers are doing the same thing. There's so much feud and all this stuff in the last election that there is no establishment. It is up for grab. So I think we hear from the base and the people that they want that kind of change. And that's why I'm a little optimistic even in this dark time that this party can change and do what it needs to do. Yeah. And for me right now, especially it being 2025, this is not about, it's obviously not about pretending everything's fine and working super well in the party, but it's also not about just like criticizing everybody and burning

the whole thing down. Like, I'm not an accelerationist. I believe in fixing things where opportunities present themselves. On the issue of the messaging, I want to dive into that a little bit with you. You know, there's a lot, I've said a lot of positive things about the former vice president Harris. When I met her, she was formidable, extraordinarily knowledgeable in everything from AI to trade. Like I was impressed with her and also I wasn't super impressed with the campaign and if I think

about like the economic ideas, I remember this thing that kept coming up about a tax deduction or credit towards expenses for starting a new business. Okay. I'm like explaining it in an even inarticulate way. I can't really sum up what the economic vision was. And I think that was reflected in the voting as Bernie Sanders said, the average person who's not steeped in this stuff every day didn't have a visceral feeling that it was definitely better for the average working person to have a president Harris than a president Trump.

I think if I'm hearing you correctly that you're saying part of it was the messaging, but part of it was maybe also the ideas or lack thereof. It's the ideas and it's also what we do when we have power. Like of course, under four years of Joe Biden, there was a lot of really good bills passed. part of the problem is the most transformational parts of those, those pieces of legislation, I would travel the country for Kamala Harris, right? I would go speak with people and they would say, I don't feel it. And it's a couple things. The biggest thing is we have such wealth inequality in this country, the fact that so many little people have so much and so many people

will have nothing, that the economy is rigged like this. And the thing is that when the economy is rigged like this, even when you pass bills that grow the economy, which on paper is good, it grows the way it's rigged. And so when it grows like that, people at the bottom, which is the majority of it's all working people, they don't feel that as much. And that's part of the issue that we have and part of the reason why we need to take us that back

and look at the system itself and how we change that for people so that way we all feel it. And I agree with you. It's the policy, it's the way we talk about it, and then it's what we do when we're in power. And part of the thing that I've been talking with a lot of folks about is how do we write,

in Congress to set more aggressive timelines. This is something FDR was obsessed with throughout the New Deal, right? Is, you know, for every two things or whatever that would take four years, like we need something people will feel in a couple months to show people that government can work for them. We don't have that kind of thinking anymore in government. The timelines are so vast. They spill into other presidencies when you don't know what the political situation is going to be. And the fact of the matter is people are suffering now. So it's easier. And some people may say, well, look at Trump. He's working fast. True. It's easier for him to work fast because right-wing agendas are about tearing things down. It's easier to tear down things than give everybody

health care. But that's why we have to work even harder. And that's why the conversations and the work starts now. Democrats like to wait until we're in power to talk about what we do with the power. That's the problem. The presidency is only like, what, 100 days to really get the big stuff done. We have to figure it out now. Right. So when we're there, we have the plan. And that's what project 2025 part of the reason why it's so dangerous for our country and dangerous for us isn't even just what's in it but how quickly you can get through it and and that's the thing we need to be doing now and a lot of us are doing it um and my hope is like as we you know nominate someone in the future that is something that's front of mind for them um you don't just

say i'd like to see some candid not just run on what they're going to do policy wise but how they're going to do it like explain to us um what the order of operations is here because we're not going to have all the time in the world. And I think, I just think people are really desperate right now. One of the things that I think is interesting in that context of you being a Gen Z member of the house is you, maybe you are, I'm assuming you are. You're probably more connected to the political stories that prevail, maybe in new and independent media, social media, et cetera.

And one of the things I found really interesting about not so much the 2016 election primary, but certainly the 2020 primary is that if you looked at Twitter and Reddit, you had one perception of where the Democratic Party and the average voter was. If you went to Michigan outside of union factories, you got and spoke to Democrats, you had a very different impression of where the so-called average Democrat was. I'm curious your thoughts now as we stand towards the end of 2025. there's this debate over the real Democratic Party is way to the left of the average Democratic elected official or actually it's the wokeness and the socialism that's the problem and

it needs to move more in the other direction. It's a very old question, but you're sort of in an interesting position to answer it in that you're between the official and what's happening in the social media. What's your honest, deep sense of where the bulk of the party is and what it wants right now. I think for so long, these have been, like you said, two different things. But for the first time, since I've been, you know, elected official, I would say that these things have converged. Really? So a lot of what I see online and a lot of what people are asking for, not everything, not going to say everything, is a lot of what I'm hearing when I'm knocking doors at home, is a lot of what

people stop me on the street and say, you know, thank you for your work on the internment camp in the Everglades, Alligator Alcatraz. We need Democrats. a fight. We need like bold solutions. I'm hearing this. I'll give an example. I spoke at the stop the oligarchy rally in Los Angeles. And I ran to some people that I struck up a conversation with who were talking about the fact that they hated Bernie in 2016. Like they're very loyal Democrats. They were more on the Hillary side. And they hated him. They thought, you know, he was the reason Trump, you know, won. And I was like, well, why are you here? You're at his rally. And they said, well, I think Democrats seem to fight more, and the people I've been seeing fight are the progressives, and I think I get it now.

And so I'm seeing a little bit of a convergence there, which is part of the reason I'm a bit optimistic with the way the party can go, because the party is fractured. We are figuring things out. There is no establishment. And the question is, where does the base push us? And do we actually go in that direction? And I, you know, I've been questioning a lot, the kind of academic ideological scale that we all talk about. I don't think the average voter goes into the voting booth and goes. Well, where on the ideological scale is this candidate? Like, I don't think people tip a damn about that. I think people want to vote for the people they know, they trust, that are giving them bold solutions that inspire them. And it's part of the reason why people are all over

the place. I mean, you'll talk with a swing Trump voter and ask him, who's your other favorite politician? And they'll say Bernie Sanders or something like that. And to people like us, it might be confusing, but it really isn't because as things get worse in this country, people are just looking for, again, transformation. I think that's what the average order was, transformation. And they might, like, in their heart, they might be more of a person to the left or maybe a little to the right. But the fact of the matter is that when one party represents defending an institution and one party is representing changing it up, even though it's like changing it up so it can work better for billionaires, it's still like change.

the change is going to win. I think nine out of ten times, especially in a country where over 60% of our people live paycheck to paycheck. Things are bad. Things aren't good. And so, I mean, I do see a convergence between kind of the online speak

and when I run into just everyday people on the streets. And this is, I've been spending a lot more time on Florida lakes, like lake culture, which is a pretty MAGA-heavy space. Yeah. And I speak with a lot of people out there who would complete, like, decked out in MAGIS stuff. And I'm telling you, I even hear it from these folks, too. They'll say, I disagree with you on everything.

And then I start talking about some progressive solutions, I believe in. And then they'll be, yeah, well, you know, I agree with you on that. Yeah, that would help me a lot, you know. So I think that, I don't know, I feel like we, I just feel optimistic about that, that sort of thing. And I think the base is yelling for change in the party. And I think we're seeing it. I think we're going to see it in 2026. We've seen a lot of these more populous, progressive candidates come out that are really

looking to build a broad coalition around their ideas. And I think that's going to be the way forward here. Last thing I'll ask you about it. And I know you've got to run in that environment where you see this convergence are Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries the best people to lead the party in that? that context of convergence? You know, I'll say I'm really, this battle that we're in right now, last one was it March, I was very distant, you know, like everybody else very, very disappointed

with the fact that like House Democrats stood strong and then the Senate, they just completely let down, not just us in the Beltway, D.C. political sense, but the entire nation. and we know what happened afterwards, the entire base, you know, told them Senate leadership and those senators who I think really made it the wrong decision, they got held from our base. And I think that was appropriate and very important. And it just goes to show that at times when you disagree, we can't have an impact because now we're in lockstep on holding strong right now. And I think this is really a test, especially on the Senate side, because the House is really standing strong on this on if we're able to really stand 10 toes down here. And I feel a lot more confident now than last time. Obviously, we're in the middle of this shutdown that Republicans put us in.

they run the House of Senate and the White House. But this is a very moral fight that most people are with us on. Like we're doing this for health care. So I think, you know, time will tell on the Senate side where things go. I've been a little less optimistic with what's going on over there. And I think the Senate is right for a lot of change. On the House side, I think we're doing good work right now, especially in this shutdown. And I want to see more.

I'm always bringing this up. I want to see more people on the road. more people bringing the message out there because the fact of the matter is you can do stunts and stuff up in dc and you know that's important but donald trump has the biggest megaphone here but the time where you can break through is when you leave the dc bubble and you actually go to the people it's harder for donald trump to vs that very localized message and that's part of the reason i went on the road with chris murphy um and i think you're seeing breakout folks in the senate like chris murphy and folks like that starting to speak out a lot more so i know it's a little bit of a non-answer but

Just some, well, listen, you know, we spoke to Senator Murphy last week and he's doing really good work. So I guess if I, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but interpreting and reading between the lines of what you're saying, you are less negative about the leadership now than you were in March and you're taking a let's see what happens approach. Is that fair? Yeah, I'd say more more on the Senate side. But, but yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, this is, well, this whole year has been a test and March did not go well. But I think. right now. We need people to stay strong. And I encourage folks to reach out to your members of Congress, even your Democratic members of Congress, your Democratic senators, and then like tell

them, like, thank you for, you know, holding strong on this and continue to. We need you to because this is health care for 25 million people. It's not nothing. And this is an authoritarian president. When you don't have all the power you want, use all the power you got. And that's the moment that we're in right now. All right. We've been speaking with Congressman Maxwell Frost, who represents the 10th district in Florida. Really appreciate your time and hopefully we'll get reopened soon and back to work. All right. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Donald Trump has already packed his second term cabinet with loyalists. He's threatened deportation as political punishment. He's expanded executive authority in ways we have not seen in modern history. These are real changes

that are happening right now. And what's even more alarming is that a lot of the media is either glossing over the worst of it or they're reframing it. So it all sounds a little more powerful. And that is why I use ground news. This is a news comparison tool. Doesn't just feed you headlines. It shows you here's how different outlets left, right center, are covering the same story. And this is one of the few tools I know of that can really help you detect the political spin, the bias, catch stories that your usual sources might downplay or not cover at all on

everything from immigration policy to economic shifts. If you want to get a bigger picture, a broader picture of what's being reported, ground news is an invaluable source to keep you informed. And ground news is offering my audience 40% off their top tier vantage plan. You'll only pay five bucks a month. Go to ground. news slash Pacman or enter the code Pacman in the app to get started. The link is in the description.

Donald Trump had another one of these unexplained episodes where with no communication as to the why. He goes missing for days, even at key times for the United States. Now, the last time that this happened was days and days on end. It's happening again. The last time that Donald Trump was seen before yesterday's Navy speech disaster was Tuesday, September 30th for that military general's speech with Pete Heggseth, which went really poorly. As you might recall during that speech, Donald Trump's eyes at certain points were pointing in opposite direction. He slurred his way through the entire speech. And I realized that after that speech, Trump briefly spoke with reporters.

And then he was not seen again Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday until he showed up almost an hour late for a speech to Navy service members in Virginia. What is going on here? This is not normal. And because of the lack of transparency from this administration, we are once again left to speculate. Why is a guy so starved for attention who's usually desperate to be in the middle of any political controversy? Why is he gone for days again?

By the way, when he showed back up to the speech with the Navy, he was not exactly firing on all cylinders. The other really odd thing that took place during Donald Trump's absence is that J.D. Vance was unusually active and visible. You might recall that J.D. Vance did an interview. on Fox News during which he told a lot of different lies. And then at roughly the same time, he, J.D. Vance, jumped into Caroline Levitt's White House press briefing, which sometimes presidents or vice presidents do.

But imagine for a moment if during an unexplained Biden absence, which by the way, he didn't really have, but during an unexplained Biden absence, imagine if Kamala Harris showed up to press briefings. It would have been sharks swarming like a feeding frenzy when the church. hits the water. Where is Biden? What's the White House hiding? It would have been apoplectic media coverage. And Donald Trump is again for the second time in two months missing for days. And right wing media has no curiosity. They say nothing. Even at that speech, Donald Trump showed up almost an hour late. He sounded terrible. He looked terrible. Listen to this and listen to like what what does he

even say in the middle of this clip. Well, one year ago, our country was dead. We had a dead country. People say, sir, you shouldn't say that it's two struts to withdraw. People say, sir, you shouldn't say that it's two struts to withdraw. What? We had a dead country and today we have the hottest country anywhere in the world by far. One year, think of it.

One year ago, we were dead. This guy isn't doing well. well. He was not active during a critical week with the government shut down. He likes to play president in the Oval Office and sometimes multiple times a day he'll do, he'll talk to reporters in the Oval Office and then he'll hand people some Chotchkes in some kind of meaningless ceremony. And then he'll bring in RFK to talk about how autism, as he calls it, is caused by Tylenol

or whatever. And all of a sudden, he's quiet. And so we are left to ask the same questions we asked last time. Is he in hiding because of some kind of medical issue that he's having? Are his handlers saying, stay off camera for this point in time. And then after four days of no appearances, he's an hour late and delivers a terrible speech. This guy is not fit to be president. And the questions have never been applied equally or fairly to Trump.

as from other presidents. Now, a couple of you wrote to me over the weekend and you say, I'm paraphrasing, but you said something along the lines of, is Jake Tapper ready to now do a book on what's going on with Trump? Because he breathlessly did the Biden book and where is he on the Trump? So here's my view on on that. Has there been an irresponsible lack of coverage about Donald Trump's physical and mental health? Of course. Of course. Do I have problems with some of the sort of context of Jake Tapper's book about Joe Biden. Yes, and when Jake Tapper was on the show, I asked him about it. Did I also find that most of the substance of Jake Tapper's book seems accurate and corroborated elsewhere? Yeah, most of it. So I think

we have to be really careful. It can both be true. Both things can be true that the contents of Jake Tapper's book are basically accurate and corroborated, but that the decision to write that book, but to basically pay no mind to Donald Trump's obvious physical and cognitive decline represents a choice and a partial perspective on this issue. Both can be true. I can't say that as I read Jake Tapper's book and I looked at it very closely. I can't say that there's much in there where it's like this is completely unbelievable either because it's completely uncorroborated or it seems out of character. Now, most of the stuff in Jake Tapper's book, I believe is probably right. Some of the window dressing and the sort of language and framing

maybe is meant for dramatic purpose, sure. But I think for the most part, the book is not an inaccurate book. But the timing and the choice of writing that book while devoting almost no coverage to Donald Trump's physical and cognitive decline, I have a real problem with that. So where was Trump during this four-day period that he resurfaced from late and slurring and swollen. I have absolutely no idea. We have a wild situation. Christy Gnome, the Secretary of Homeland Security, had a bathroom urgency. She found herself urgently needing a bathroom. And she was turned away by a facility that wanted no part. She showed up with her bodyguards and staffers. And they said no toilet for you. Now I'm going to play the video for you.

This has sort of been made fun of in a lot of different ways. But there's actually a real serious story here that I want to address. But check out the video. Listen to this. Now, you can't. Now, I just want to mention one thing, right, because this is an opportunity. We're going to get to the bathroom access in a moment. Many of you have written to me and said, David, can you address what's going on physically

with Christy Noam? She seems completely gaunt. She has a really strange gate, G-A-I-T, the gate of someone who is undernourished and underweight. She clearly has an eating disorder. Listen, that's all probably true. It's just not really salient to our conversation. So I mentioned I'm getting the emails about what's up with Christy Gnome.

I'm not an expert in eating disorders. It seems outside of the scope of my analysis, but I'm aware of how weird all of this looks. So now Christy's in the parking lot looking for a toilet. So why wouldn't they let you in? What's been going on here? What's been going on here, secretary? We're coming to go out and do some operations. This is Benny Johnson, by the way, talking to her.

Yep, some guys with criminal convictions on them, and the city police wouldn't even let us use a restroom. And you were just blocked by us by a worker here from the city? Yes, by a worker at the municipal building here in Broadmoor. Would not allow us to go in and to use a restroom at the police station. So as much as these local leaders and governors talk about cooperating and having the backs of our law enforcement, which is what we have to put up with every single day.

And all we're doing is getting criminals and terrorists and cartels and gang members off the streets to make families safer here. It's ridiculous. I mean, is impeding law enforcement? I mean, this is a real problem. Is not letting Christy Gnome go in and power flush their toilet? Is that an is, are they obstructing the law? This is a real problem.

I'm so proud of our officers that deal with this every single day. They know that America's got their backs of what they face here every day. Anyway, you know, I wish they would stop and think for a moment. I'm the Secretary of Homeland Security. Fine. They're not letting me use the bathroom. Okay. There are so many people without access to bathrooms in our cities, and we have an environment

in which our leaders, overwhelmingly Republican leaders, they just don't give a shit. You know, we, we try to talk to them about just basics. And on the one hand, it's there are people who don't have enough food. There are people who have no access to health care. We go, hey, you know, the situation for the homeless is pretty dire. We've got people with no homes. We have Republican mayors and governors trying to criminalize homelessness and criminalize people who are just out on the street.

And part of that story is they don't even have access to bathrooms, never mind clean bathrooms, right? It does, we're not talking here about the bathroom at the four seasons. We're just talking about any sanitation facilities and they just don't care and they don't care about how desperate these situations become. I don't, you know, denying access. to bathrooms is something that's a really ugly thing when it is done. It's done in situations of interrogation.

There's all these things. Denying access to clean bathrooms and bathrooms at all has a long sorted history. I'm not even sort of like, ha ha, they're not letting Christy Noem use the bathroom. I just wish that some of these people would apply if it's so bad to let someone as privileged as Christy Noem who goes around with a full. balance of security. If it's really mean and bad to not let her use the bathroom, what about people who have no resources and have nothing and are pushed around by the criminalization of homelessness? They also don't have access to bathrooms. How do you think they feel? So I wish

that that these sorts of things, you know, there's the cartoonish headline. They left her to poop on the sidewalk. Okay, fine. Yeah. Christy Noam. They, they have the resource to to drive around with a portable bathroom in a van if that's what they wanted to do. But we have so many people in this country who have nothing and access to bathrooms is yet another one of the things they lack and just a total lack of empathy from people in positions of power. So Christy Nome really needed to go in to use the bathroom. They didn't let her. I have to tell you, I'm going to admit something to you. I am taking such pleasure in what is going on with bad bunny or as he is known in some circles, baboni. I absolutely love that this is triggering MAGA. Now, let me give

you the background. Puerto Rican artist Bad Bunny. By the way, Puerto Rico is part of the United States. Puerto Rico, as Donald Trump likes to say, it's part of the United States. Remember when Trump said he was going to speak to the president of Puerto Rico? That's him. He's the president of Puerto Rico in the sense that Puerto Rico is part of the United States. There are magas losing their minds because Bad Bunny not only hosted Saturday Night Live over the weekend, but he is also slated to be the halftime show performer at the Super Bowl this year. And there are angry Magas who say this is not representative of America, even though Bad Bunny is American. He's from Puerto Rico. There are those who say we don't need music in Spanish at the Super Bowl.

and Bad Bunny over the weekend hosting a Saturday Night Live delivered part of his monologue in Spanish and it was so triggering. I'm going to play it for you. I'll translate the Spanish parts, which I don't believe were translated. And then we'll, I'll show you some of the reactions. I'm very excited to be doing the Super Bowl and I know that people all around the world who love my music are also happy, especially all the Latino. He says people and the Latina in the world

and here in the States He says people who love his music, especially all of the Latino and Latina people around the world and in the United States. People who have worked more than a lot of me including the people who have worked to open doors.

Mast, a lot of meo, it's a loggro of all, demonstrating that our way and our portation in this country, nobody, never can't get any born. Saying that this is not just an accomplishment for him, but it's an accomplishment for the entire Latino community and that his and the presence of other Latinos in the United States is not something that can be ignored. And if you didn't understand. what I just said, you have four months to learn. We have a great job.

I just love this. I just love it. And immediately this just triggered so many of these magas. This guy, Carl Higby, a right winger who never said anything worth more than Ponskum, tweeted, I will not be watching the Super Bowl at all in response to. to Bad Bunny's Spanish monologue piece. You know, Carl, this is not an airport. You don't have to announce your departure.

Just see yourself out. Here's Adrienne Curry who said, learn English if you want to appeal to Americans during the biggest American pastime. This is tone deaf A. These people are going to eat themselves over Bad Bunny performing at the Super Bowl. I might actually watch the Super Bowl this year. That's how much I am loving this. These people claim to be the ultimate alphas and they are such pathetic snowflakes. Now, on the bonus show today, we are going to talk about this controversial Saudi music festival and the response that many

comedians have received from participating. We'll also talk about the move to strip Congress of pay during government shutdowns. We're going to talk about the support. Court returning to face another Trump test of presidential powers, all of those stories and more on today's bonus show. Sign up at join packman.com. I would love to see you then.