The David Pakman Show - 10/9/25: Israel-Hamas hostage deal reached, Trump to get medical evaluation

Episode Date: October 9, 2025

-- On the Show: -- Tammy Baldwin, Democratic Senator from Wisconsin, joins us to discuss the government shutdown, healthcare funding, the effects of Trump's trade war on her state, and much more… -- Israel and Hamas agree on initial cease-fire terms and a hostage-for-prisoner exchange, bringing cautious hope amid ongoing humanitarian crises -- Senators confront Mike Johnson about the Epstein files and question why Congresswoman-elect Adelita Grijalva has not been sworn in -- Representative Hakeem Jeffries confronts Representative Lawler over Medicaid cuts and refuses to be talked over during a fiery exchange -- Governor J.B. Pritzker challenges Donald Trump, saying if he comes for his people he must come through him -- A Republican military wife calls out Mike Johnson on C-SPAN for refusing to call the House back and criticizes his handling of Obamacare and Trump policies -- Last month, Trump accidentally posted a private message to Attorney General Pam Bondi publicly, pressuring her to prosecute political enemies, including James Comey -- Trump misunderstands habeas corpus during an interview, asking who it is and leaving the topic to Kristi Noem -- Trump admits taking away freedom of speech because he wants to punish flag burners -- Trump is set for a Walter Reed medical evaluation amid concerns about his health, balance, cognition, and recent chronic conditions -- Trump gives a rambling interview claiming tariffs create peace and save lives while boasting about booming restaurant business in Washington D.C. -- On the Bonus Show: The man who allegedly started the Palisades wildfire gets arrested, Katie Porter faces criticism after a contentious interview, gold is having its best year since 1979, and much more... ☕ Trade Coffee: Get 50% off a 1-month trial at https://drinktrade.com/pakman 💵 Sponsored by Ridge Wallet: Use code PAKMAN for 10% off at https://ridge.com/pakman 😺 Smalls cat food: Use code PAKMAN for 60% off & free shipping at https://smalls.com 🔊 Babbel language learning: Get up to 60% OFF at https://babbel.com/pakman ⚠️ Ground News: Get 40% OFF their unlimited access Vantage plan at https://ground.news/pakman 🛌 Helix Sleep mattresses: Get 27% OFF sitewide at https://helixsleep.com/pakman -- Become a Member: https://davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe to our (FREE) Substack newsletter: https://davidpakman.substack.com -- Get David's Books: https://davidpakman.com/echo -- TDPS Subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow -- David on Bluesky: https://davidpakman.com/bluesky -- David on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow (00:00) Intro (01:15) Israel and Hamas reach cease-fire and hostage swap (05:53) Senators question Mike Johnson on Epstein files (09:12) Hakeem Jeffries clashes with Lawler over Medicaid (16:01) Governor Pritzker challenges Trump directly (21:59) Military wife criticizes Mike Johnson on C-SPAN (29:38) Trump posts private message to Pam Bondi (35:08) Trump confused about habeas corpus (40:21) Tammy Baldwin on shutdown and healthcare (53:03) Trump limits free speech over flag burning (58:28) Trump set for Walter Reed checkup (1:03:11) Trump claims tariffs save lives    

Today, a hostage deal has reportedly been reached between Israel and Hamas. This will potentially pave the way for a ceasefire. It is also getting increasingly ugly on Capitol Hill. Government remains shut down. Democratic senators finally are demanding answers on the Epstein files. And Maga Mike Johnson is just falling apart bad after bad after bad. Hakeem Jeffries is showing signs of life and snapped at a Republican congressman in a moment We need about a hundred of.

And J.B. Pritzker, the governor of Illinois is saying to Trump, come and get me after Trump said that Pritzker should be imprisoned. Plus, a Republican military wife goes off on Maga Mike Johnson on live TV. A Trump private message was posted publicly on truth social. It is bad. And Trump seems to think habeas corpus is a person rather than a legal concept. also bragging about ending freedom of speech. And we've learned he's headed to Walter Reed for a not so routine medical evaluation.

All of that and more today. Coming just days after the two year anniversary of the Israel Hamas war, we have news that a deal has supposedly been reached still to be ratified, I guess we would say, and signed in Egypt maybe over the next 24 hours. This is a hostage prisoner swap deal. The idea being this may lead to a permanent ceasefire. Now we have reported agreement on the initial terms. The outlined terms include the release of Israeli hostages in exchange for a number of

of Palestinian prisoners. Some say freeing Palestinian prisoners encourages future hostage taking. Others say this is the practical reality of the situation. There is simply no other way even to get to this point. Now also of concern how many of the Israeli hostages are still alive. It's believed that there will be a lot of, unfortunately, the remains of deceased hostages making up a portion of those released. Only 20 hostages are believed to still be alive. The Trump administration worked on this combined with Arab mediators. Trump says he will travel to the

region over the weekend and the very opportunist Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, says he has invited Donald Trump to address Israeli parliament. Now, understand that we sort of have two parallel tracks here. What are the facts of the situation on the ground and how will that affect Israeli-Palestinian relations? And then there's the propaganda value to Donald Trump and to Benjamin Netanyahu. Now, we'll get to that. A lot of uncertainty remains is either side genuine and authentic in their agreement. Are they really going to go through with it? Lots of questions are still unclear. When is Israel supposed to permanently stop military operations in Gaza?

We have some answers. Once the deal is signed, which is supposed to happen in the next, you know, six to 24 hours, there will be a 24-hour deadline that will start at that point for Israeli forces to make a partial withdrawal from some Gaza positions. A potentially temporary ceasefire would start. within 24 hours of the Israeli cabinet meeting and presumably approving this. After those 24 hours, Hamas will then have 72 hours to release the hostages. That's according to U.S. and Israeli officials. And Israel would release 250 Palestinian prisoners serving life sentences as well as

1,700 people detained from Gaza since October 7, 2023. Now, there are a number of obstacles to this becoming a durable ceasefire. And I mean obstacles other than the last 70 years, which make us say, is any ceasefire really durable? But I mean, sort of at the micro level, even if this initial hostage prisoner swap does take place, is Hamas really going to disarm, which is part of the deal? Is Israel really going to stop all operations in Gaza, which is part of the deal? Will Israel really carry out a full withdrawal? my skepticism, but if you come to me and you tell me nothing other than Trump and Netanyahu

are involved, I immediately wonder, will it really happen? What's in it for them? Is the reporting even accurate? Are they even genuine and authentic in their desire to participate? Because they are two individuals that I just don't trust. And I think history tells us that that they should not be trusted. Now, there is reporting that additional negotiation is going to be necessary. Sometimes between the hostage prisoner exchange and any potential long-term ceasefire, it would not come as a huge shock if that negotiation didn't go well. But listen, on the one hand, when Trump and Netanyahu are involved, I'm skeptical by nature. On the other hand, I don't care who's involved. I hope that this actually does get us closer to ending this conflict, either at the

micro or at the macro level. So you now know everything that's been released. as of this moment, the next 6 to 24 hours and subsequently 72 are going to be critical in figuring out what is ultimately going to happen here. Hey, some Democratic senators and members of the House are finally showing some signs of life. I've got video here, very interesting video, of senators, Mark Kelly and our friend Ruben Gallego confronting Maga Mike Johnson. They are confronting him about why aren't you just getting Adela Grijalva sworn in so that she can participate in the House of Representatives? And are you not doing it because it's part of your effort to hide the Epstein files? Good for them. Maga Mike Johnson goes, no, that has nothing

to do with it. This is exactly how every single Democrat should be confronting these people until Ms. Grahalla is sworn in. Ms. Grahalla, Ravala has not yet had a scheduled day because she was elected after the house was out of session. So I am anxious to administer the oath to her. As soon as you guys vote to open the government. You don't want to be on the obscene. You don't want to be on the obscene. It's absurd, says Mike Johnson. It's in red herring.

There's nothing to do with Epstein. The House Oversight Committee, the House Oversight Committee is working upon the Epstein files right now releasing 34,000 pages and more on the way. No, she's the evidence. Let me finish the House Oversake Committee. This is an excuse so she doesn't sign on to that. We have every reason in the world to believe that Maga Mike Johnson is functioning as Donald Trump's goon as Trump's henchman to prevent or delay the release of the Epstein files.

Now, you might say something that producer Pat sort of alluded to yesterday on the on the bonus show, which is it does seem that eventually she's going to get sworn in and she's going to vote to release the Epstein files. So this will only work temporarily. And you're probably right. That's right. Everybody who has been emailing me about that is right. What you have to understand is that this is now not about let's prevent the release altogether.

This is shifting into let's muddle the release so much that whatever is in it is going to to be questioned for accuracy and credibility. And on the on on Friday feedback tomorrow on the Friday show, we're going to delve into at this point is whatever ultimately gets released and labeled the Epstein files even going to be believed or are you going to have people presumably on the left saying I can't imagine this is really the full file and then people on the right saying of anything that is derogatory in the files. I can't imagine that this is really. this is doctored, this is vague or whatever. So we're going to deal with that when it happens.

But in the interim, this, I believe, is the energy we need from Democrats. In this case, Gallego and Kelly walking across the hall, walking across the rotunda to the other side of the Capitol, confronting Maga Mike Johnson and saying what the hell is going on here? And by the way, this was not the only confrontation that took place yesterday. Let's talk about that next. You know, when it comes to Hakim Jeffries, the minority leader in the house, I have not said the most positive things about him lately. I think that the energy is low.

I'm sick of the strongly worded letters. I don't know that he really has the spirit and positioning for what we need right now in the American left. But yesterday he got into a brutal exchange with Republican Congressman Lawler and we're going to listen to this. This is about the Medicaid cuts. This is about the shutdown. And I got to tell you, this is the most interested I've been in Jeffries in years. This all of a sudden, he's alive. So I'll show you a few seconds of the confrontation starting from this angle, but then we actually have a different video where the audio is much better. So here is Jeffries coming out, I believe,

of the press briefing that he did. And then Lawler is there and they get into it. Your extension. Yeah. Why don't we sign on right now? Why don't we sign on right now? Why don't we sign on right now? Did your boss?

You can easily extend. All right. All right. So that you see the confrontation kind of develop. We have a better angle here. Let's listen to what the subject matter actually was. This did not go well for Lawler and good for Hakeem Jeffries for not backing down. We got a one year extension.

Why don't we sign on right now? Why don't you send him right now? Did you get permission from your boss? Why don't we sign on right now? Did your boss Donald Trump? You can be easily extend the ATA right now. Yes, he is. No, he's not.

And by the way, so let me ask you a question. Why did you vote to shut the government down? Why did you vote to shut the government? For years, you always lecture about how we need to keep the government open. You're making a show of this to make yourself relevant. It's sad. You could easily sign on to this.

You can sign on to this. You're chasing cloud. You're an embarrassment. You're an embarrassment. Let me ask you a question. You have four Democrats on here. Let me ask you a question. It's a clean assessment for one year.

You voted for one year. You voted for the one big argument, correct? I voted for a tax cut bill that gave the largest tax cut to Americans in history, including, by the way, the average New York are getting a $4,000 tax cut. Are you against that? You're embarrassing yourself right now. Do you want to cut the standard deduction in half? The largest cut to Medicaid in American history, you voted for that.

Waste, fraud and abuse, by the way. You voted for a permanent controller of New York. Let me ask your question. Pointed out that $1.2 billion were wasted. Listen, you're not going to talk. You're not going to talk to. You're not going to talk to me and talk over me because you don't want to hear what I have to say. Oh, I'm listening.

So why don't you just keep your mouth shut? Oh, is that the way to talk? You showed up. You showed up. Yeah. And so you voted for this one big, ugly bill. You can extend it right now. A permanent extension of massive tax breaks for your billionaire donors.

So 90% of Americans, they can get a permanent extension. 90% of Americans take the standard deduction. Is that right? 90% of Americans take the standard deduction. Is that right? If you had your way, the standard deduction would have been cut in half. That would have been a massive tax increase on Americans all across the country. You're here, unfortunately, you're against lifting the

of your billionaire donors. The billionaire donors, lifting the cap on salt, we put a income cap in place. Why are you here right now? In income cap. Why are you here right now is really the best question in all of this? All Republicans to be here? Where are the rest of your Republicans? You want Republicans to be here.

I'm here. And by the way, you can pass an A.C. extension right now sign on to this bill did your boss sign on to the bill is your boss Donald Trump behind H.R 5145 why don't you get on Mike is your boss Donald Trump behind why won't you get on because you don't work for the American people oh I do I work for the people of New York I work for the people of my district is that why you I'm here you got a hundred and forty five thousand by the way I voted I voted for a clean CR to keep the government open funded you voted to shut it down you're

embarrassing yourself right yeah leader with all due respect you're the one why you're playing yourself you're the one why you're playing yourself voted to Shut the government down. Actually, you know that's not true. It's sad. You voted to shut the government down. Do Republicans control the House, the Senate and the president? Right, and you're smart enough to know that you need 60 votes in the Senate.

Is that right? No. Do you need 60 votes in the Senate? What 60 votes needed to pass your one big ugly bell? Reconciliation, which you did with the IRA. Boy, that really reduced inflation. Are you trying to elevate yourself because you're afraid you're about to lose re-election? No, I'm not going to lose re-election.

You spent $42 million last cycle. You didn't do that great. Why aren't you running for governor right now? Because you spent a- Enjoy this job and I'm here to do it. And by the way, by the way, you can actually pass, you could actually pass a subsidy right now. Is that I'm sure that people don't have health care premiums going up. Why won't you support this one year?

Let me ask you a question. Tom Swazzi's on it, Jared Golden. Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. Are they wrong? Your other boss, Mike Johnson, I challenged him to a debate. Yeah. On the floor.

Did he send you? No, I'm here on my behalf of my constituents. Is that right? Anyway, there's another 90 seconds of this, but I think you get the picture. Are we so the I'm of some of two minds of this. Okay. Now, I'll just kind of be be transparent and honest with you, which is all I ever am. On the one hand, we have seen such a lack of energy coming from Democratic leadership. That includes in the Senate. That includes in the House. We've got strongly worded letters up the wazoo. But those aren't really good for much. And I love. I love that Ruben Gallego and Mark Kelly went over and confronted Mac and Mike Johnson about swearing in Adelaide Grahalva. I like that when Mike Lawler shows up clearly meant to sort of sandbag Hakeem Jeffries. Jeffries doesn't back down and he exposes him for the sort of Trump-controlled tool that he is. We need this energy.

I like it. On the other hand, if your question is how many people can now afford food thanks to this argument? Well, there's no additional people that thanks to this argument can now afford food. That's absolutely true. And so where I find myself is we are all so desperately seeking signs of life and energy from the Democratic Party and we're starting to get them and that's good. But it can't stop there. And so the question is given that by itself this sort of energy and these confrontations

and this spirit, this esprit decor who how does Trump say a sprit decor, well, however he says That this spirit by itself doesn't help anybody economically, but is there the possibility that with this newfound energy, more people will see what's going on. More people will get involved. More people will get involved in the political process. More people will vote and we'll get the right people in. I'm optimistic. Guys, it's like all we have right now.

Okay. So at least this is better than what we had as a 48 hours ago. I hope we see more of it. But it can't stop at only this. Governor J.B. Pritzker is daring Donald Trump to come and arrest him. You might remember that yesterday I covered Donald Trump's truth social post where he said, quote, Chicago mayor should be in jail for failing to protect ICE officers. Governor Pritzker also.

Well, Pritzker was asked about this and his message to Donald Trump is, uh, it's a, it's pretty clear. I must say. Look, he's a coward. He says a lot of things to the camera. He likes to pretend to be a tough guy. Come and get me. Come and get me. All right. So Pritzker's message is very clear. And Pritzker's message on Trump has actually been getting increasingly aggressive. You might remember now that Pritzker is one of a couple governors along with Gavin Newsom, who is openly saying Trump has dementia. Trump has dementia and that is it and saying that also he is unhinged and he said to Jacob Sabarov, uh, come and get me restating that message. You know as well as I do the president of the United States in the last 24 hours

called for you to be imprisoned. Um, I want to give you an opportunity with senior reaction on social media, but, um, I want to hear what you have to say back to the president of United States. Well, let's start with the idea that this is a convicted felon. I mean, think about that who is threatening to jail me. Uh, I got to say this. guy's unhinged, he's insecure, he's a wannabe dictator. And there's one thing I really want to say to Donald Trump. If you come from my people, you come through me. So come and get me.

And J.B. Pritzker putting his hands out, almost in a position to be handcuffed. Uh, listen, we're seeing more and more people ready for the fight. And we need that. So these back and forths, you know, Hakeem Jeffries and Mike Loller that we looked at her. earlier, Ruben Gallego and Mark Kelly versus Maga Mike Johnson. This spat between J.B Pritzker and Donald Trump, we're seeing Governor Shapiro up for the fight. We're seeing Governor Newsome up for the fight. It's a growing list. We need that.

It is necessary, but it isn't sufficient. And that is where I think we need to be focusing. Rather than debating, is this stuff merely performative? Let's acknowledge that there is a significant performative element to it, but that at the same time, performance can inspire, motivate, and pull people into the movement. So would I rather us control the House and Senate and be making tangible and tractable progress on health care, inflation, wages, employment, and foreign policy? Of course, I would.

And education and climate. Of course, of course. We don't have that power at this point in time, but we need to build to when we do. And I'm glad to see that there are people here for the fight. It's not everything. It's not putting food on anybody's table, but it's a start. And so I hope I'm not setting the bar too low. I want to hear from you.

Are we at least taking some positivity from the reality that some of these Democrats seem up for the fight? We'll have more about this on today's audio podcast. This segment is just part of that podcast. You can get the podcast free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere that you get your audio podcasts. Most people know I'm a cappuccino guy, maybe a flat white. That's how I start my day. I used to think the only way to get a good one was at a cafe.

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This is protection that actually feels good to use. 10% off Ridge Powerbanks and iPhone cases now at Ridge.com slash Pacman. The link is in the description. Maga Mike Johnson had a really bad day. He decided in the middle of the government shut down the confrontations from senators and members of the House and just everything going wrong as he tries to suppress the Epstein files. Maga Mike Johnson decided to go on C-SPAN and it was not. good. Who thought that this was going to go well in this political environment? A Republican military wife caller, a Republican military wife, called in and dresses him down and says she is disappointed. How is he allowing all of these horrible things to happen? And he is completely

passive. It's almost like he doesn't give a damn because he is serving an audience of one and that one man is very orange and very swollen. It is not the Republican military wife caller. Take a listen to this. Hi, Mr. Johnson. So my question or comments are related to what you said yesterday about not being open to pass any legislation to ensure that military gets paid. I'm sure you can tell by my voice.

I'm very shaky. Just want you to hear a little bit about my family. I have two medically fragile children. I have a husband who actively serves this country. He suffers from PTSD from his two tours in Afghanistan. If we see a lapse in pay come the 15th, my children do not get to get the medication that's needed for them to live their life because we live paycheck to paycheck.

I heard you earlier say that you side with President Trump on anything that he says, well, I just read an article this morning that said he absolutely wholeheartedly believes that there needs to be legislation put in so that we do not miss a paycheck. You have the power to do that. And as a Republican, I'm very disappointed in my party, and I'm very disappointed in you because you do have the power to call the House back.

You did that, or you refused to do that just for a show. I'm begging you to pass this legislation. My kids could die. We don't have the credit because of the medical bills that I have to pay. regularly you could stop this and you could be the one that could say military's getting paid and I think that it is awful and the audacity of someone who makes six figures a year to do this to military families is insane all right Samantha I'm so sorry to hear about your situation the reason I've been so angry this week and they've been calling me out on media Johnson's angry

I am angry because of situations just like yours I have a big military district and my district is the home of the global strike command at Barksdale Air Force Base and Fort Polk, the joint readiness training center. Do you think the caller gives a damn about Barksdale Air Force Base? She's saying she doesn't have the ability unless we end this thing to pay for the basic necessities of her family. He goes, oh, I know, I know this very well. We've got Barksdale, Barksdale.

I have one of the biggest military districts and military families in in America. I have a lot of airmen and soldiers who are deployed right now and they have young families at home and they have children and in health situations like you. This is what keeps me up at night. There's no answer. There's just no answer. He has no answer for it. He just, this is the type of crap that he says.

Who in this guy's office thought this appearance was going to be a good idea? Mike Johnson was asked by another caller. What's your plan to fix Obamacare? Great question. Mike Johnson says. So, and also want to know, what is y'all's plan to fix the Obamacare? Great questions. There's a lot of improvements that are needed.

Obamacare did not do what was promised. Everybody could acknowledge that. As I mentioned, premiums are up 60% since it became law in 2010. Now remember, this is like, you know, they just lie so easily. I can't correct every lie because this is just nonsense. But what I think is important to remember here is that Obamacare, the, the program, the premiums within these health connector type programs went up more slowly than those outside of. it. Obamacare didn't solve the problem that premiums go up every year. It didn't solve it,

but those plans within Obamacare marketplaces have seen premiums go up a little more slowly than those outside of it. Is it like, oh my God, we solved it? No, it's not. But it was at least something. And remember that they have nothing. They have, they have no alternative whatsoever. And you have less access to care and in some parts of the country, lower quality So we've got to fix that. Republicans are the party that have the ideas to do that. We have a doctor's caucus inside the Republican conference that works around the clock, putting together these ideas, talking to stakeholders and other providers around the country.

We have a lot of ideas to fix it. Some people say, why can't you just rip Obamacare out at the roots and start over? It's very, very complicated. It affects about 18% of the U.S. economy, healthcare, but there's lots of various improvement. We have not, this is not a talking point for us. We've demonstrated it in the one big, beautiful bill, the working families tax cuts. We added lots of provisions, for example, to reform Medicaid. It was being-

Anyway, that's another lie. The provisions they added to reform Medicaid only make it harder for people to get benefits. They put in place a whole bunch of restrictions. I mean, this is really disgusting stuff. And for a guy who calls himself a Christian, the facility with which he just lies to constituents, to voters, to journalists is disgusting. It's quite frankly disgusting. Finally, caller asks Maga Mike Johnson, have you ever not voted with Trump on ever?

any issue at any point in time? Yes, good morning. Just wanted to ask the speaker, a couple of questions. Have you ever voted against anything that Trump set forth as far as policy? That's one question. The other is what is going on with the swearing-in of the Congresswoman who would make the 218 vote? I noticed that you were speaking in the hall yesterday with someone regarding the idea that, you know, maybe she would make the 218th vote that would open up the vote for the Epstein files to be released.

This is not something that we are going to forget about. This is serious business. The other thing is that Trump is a dictator. So it doesn't matter what Johnson does or what the guy over in the Senate does. All the things that have to happen is if Trump says open the government, it will be open tomorrow. We have to understand it. And they keep talking about we putting names out there about. Trump being the dictator in this and that you just called and he continues to call our right

Alexander and he's talking about representative at alida grahalva being not being sworn in yeah alexander gave me a lot to answer there let me go real quickly i i typically vote with president trump i do because that's my party and i lead my party in the house and in our agenda is working for the american people you can make an argument there you go i vote with trump whatever he says goes that's it i mean it's i'm not going to give you 15 minutes of this guy because it's an insult to everybody he it's we we're hearing enough to know that this guy is despicable. That's what we're hearing enough to know. And I, I, you know, I'm all for treating staff well. But whoever thought this was a good idea

deserves a talking to from Maga Mike Johnson because it went so terribly for him, which I love, right? I should be thanking whoever set this up for Maga Mike. He should be furious with them. So Donald Trump accidentally posted a private message to his own attorney general. publicly, not just any message, but a message directing Pam Bondi, the Attorney General to prosecute his political enemies. I want to remind you about this. There was this message that was posted to Truth Social, which started with Pam and a colon. We have now figured out due to extensive reporting that that was supposed to be a private

message to Pam Bondi instructing her to prosecute people. And Trump, in his infinite wisdom, accidentally sent it out publicly. The message said, quote, Pam, I have reviewed over 30 statements and posts saying that essentially same old story as last time, I'll talk, no action. Nothing is being done. What about Comey? Adam Schifty Schiff. Letitia.

They're all guilty as hell, but nothing is going to be done. Then we almost put in a Democrat-supported U.S. attorney in Virginia with a really bad Republican past, a woke rhino who was never going to do his job. That's why two of the worst Dem Senators pushed him so hard. He even lied to the media and said he quit and that we had no case. Now, I fired him. And there is a great case and many lawyers and legal pundits say so. Lindsay Halligan is a really good lawyer and likes you a lot.

We can't delay any longer. It's killing our reputation and credibility. They impeached me twice and indicted me five times over nothing. Justice must be served now. President Donald J. Trump. This was not Trump publicly vending. This was meant to be a private message to Pam Bondi where he was pressuring her to launch criminal cases against political opponents and prosecute them. In normal times, that would end a presidency. Forget the two times Trump was impeached during his first term. Forget the seven different reasons Trump could and should be

impeached based on actions during this second term. Just this at times in American history would have ended his presidency. Now, according to the Wall Street Journal, Trump had no idea. It's not, you know, like, it's not like Trump was on his phone thinking he's sending a DM and he accidentally publishes it and immediately knows that. Trump was reportedly surprised to know that that message was public. Pam Bondi, was reportedly furious and started scrambling and calling the White House going, that was supposed to be a private message. You got to take that shit down.

But Trump's next post proves he went into cleanup mode where he said publicly, Pam Bondi's doing a great job as attorney general. Now five days later, after Trump said to Pam Bondi, go after Comey, Comey was indicted. Trump made public what everybody suspected. He is directing the attorney general's office to carry out his political persecutions, not a slip up a window into how Trump operates. He's dictating prosecutions by text message. And he is saying that it is justice.

Now, is there a crime here? Absolutely could be a crime. Intent is relevant in figuring this out. But there are a whole bunch of different legal lines that are crossed here. This could be, excuse me, abuse of power. obstruction of justice. He's using presidential authority to influence or control prosecutions for personal or political reasons. That violates the independence of the DOJ. This could be conspiracy against rights from 18 U.S.C. subsection 241. If Trump's intent was to punish a political

opponent for their political activity or their speech, that could be a conspiracy to deprive them of constitutional rights. This could be deprivation of rights under color of law. That subsection 241 of 18 USC directing prosecution without cause. That is yet another potential crime. And then this also could be witness intimidation or retaliation. Since Comey and Adam Schiff, who he mentions there, were involved in prior investigations of Trump, you could argue that Trump is going after them in a retaliatory way that is also against the law. On the same day that Trump exposed his own authoritarian impulses. We learned about this yesterday.

We also saw Marco Rubio feeding Trump a piece of paper that said, we need you to put out the following on truth social. So even there we see that Donald Trump is, you know, being given social media talking points like an intern, maybe to try to take control back of the fact that the things that Donald Trump is posting are caused. a major, major problem for them. Now, is Trump going to be prosecuted for directing these prosecutions? Probably not. You know, Pam Bondi could just go, no, I felt no pressure from that message. I didn't feel any pressure. And then it goes to intent. And all of a sudden,

it's like prosecuting perjury very difficult to do. Does Congress have the will or desire to investigate this? I just don't think so. But it's almost every other day now that I'm telling you. Hey, Donald Trump did another thing, which appears to have been a crime. Dementia J. Trump thinks habeas corpus is a person rather than a legal concept. Donald Trump was asked yesterday by a reporter. Are you still thinking about suspending habeas corpus? And Trump goes, who? And it is very obvious. Trump has no idea what habeas corpus is. He thinks he's being asked about suspended. a person. Thank you, sir.

I also have two questions for you, if I may. Have you given any more thought to possibly suspending Mbius Corpus to not only deal with these insurrectionists across the nation, but also to continue rapidly deporting illegal aliens? Yeah, it's suspending who? Ambeas Corpus. Oh, I don't know. I'd rather leave that to Christy. What do you think?

No, sir, I haven't been a part of any discussions on that. Who are you asking me about? Just a little person called Ms. habeas corpus. I'd rather leave that to Christy. Now, the ironic thing, the funny thing about leaving that to Christy is that Christy, no, has no idea what habeas corpus is. Remember this viral moment in May when Senator Maggie Hassan asked her, what is habeas corpus? And she goes, it means that Trump can deport people.

So, Secretary, Nome, what is habeas corpus? Well, habeas corpus is a constitutional right that the president has to be able to remove people from this country. It's to spend their right to. No, let me stop you, ma'am. Habeas corpus, excuse me, that's incorrect. President Lincoln used it. Excuse me. habeas corpus is the legal principle that requires that the government provide a public reason for detaining and imprisoning people.

If not for that protection, the government could simply arrest people, including American citizens and hold them indefinitely for no. So a bad idea to go from Trump to Christine Ome on habeas corpus because she has no idea what it is either. Now, if you're saying, wow, Trump seemed completely confused and disoriented by that question. Isn't someone going to evaluate him medically? The answer is yes. And later in the show, I will bring you the news of Donald Trump's.

big medical evaluation that will be taking place tomorrow. Who was habeas corpus? Was that the kid who bullied me on the playground? habeas. Uh, embarrassing. Pathetic. Humiliating. One of my close friends has a cat that I actually really like.

I take a lot of heat for not being a cat guy, but this particular cat I really like. But this cat is a very picky cat when it comes to meal time. I will admit, turns up her nose to a lot of the store-bought stuff. Then my friend tried. our sponsor, Smalls, and the problem was gone. They even did a little test, old food in one bowl, Smalls in the other. The cat went right for the Smalls, no hesitation, no delay. The first time that she saw her cat get excited about meal time in a long time, which this cat is picky, folks. This cat is picky. This is because Smalls is real food for cats. It's protein-packed recipes,

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I didn't want to be the person flipping through my phone trying to translate everything. And what really helped me was babble instead of like vocabulary. lists that go on forever in a vacuum. Our sponsor Babel teaches you language through real conversation. So the French Babel taught me was super useful on the trip. And the best part is that Babel fits into quick 10 to 15 minute lessons. So I could fit it into my busy schedule very easily. Thanks to the interactive dialogue exercises in the Babel app and the spaced repetition that made the phrases stick. I was just more comfortable. I have to admit, my girlfriend was actually impressed with my French when we were in France. I could order at restaurants, buy train tickets,

figure out, is there a baby changing station in the bathroom? And also just chat with locals made it way more enriching. You can get up to 55% off at babble.com slash Pacman. The link is in the description. It is great to welcome to the program today, Senator Tammy Baldwin, Democratic senator from Wisconsin. Senator, we are still as of this moment in the middle of this shutdown. I was sort of pleased to see that some of your Democratic colleagues have started to just confront Republicans in the floors of the Capitol, which is interesting to see. You know, I want to get your take on two things.

One, do you have a sense of how long this may go? But then maybe equally importantly, we know that shutdowns are hurtful to large. swaths of people in different parts of the country for different reasons. What do you expect will be the political fallout of this? And I know we're going to talk about the personal fallout as well. But the blame is highly relevant when it comes to these shutdowns politically. What are you seeing in terms of who is being blamed for what's happening? Yes.

Well, I just actually came from voting for the seventh time to reopen the government and bring down costs for health care for millions upon millions of Americans who stand to lose access to affordable health care. And it is so frustrating. You're talking about the conversations that are going on across the party aisle. When you have Marjorie Taylor Green saying that we must fix this because she sees her kids their health premiums for next year, And I have many Republican colleagues who want to address the health care costs. But the leaders and President Trump are saying, no, my way or the highway. And frankly, speaking of the highway, the House has not been in session now for two plus weeks.

They're on vacation while we are trying to reopen the government to bring down. health care costs. This is clearly Trump's shutdown. You know, this is something that, as we know, he just refuses to negotiate. And you can't pass things in the Senate without bipartisan support. So it's, you know, he owns this. On the one hand, polling does show that Americans agree with what you're saying. I mean, factually speaking, Americans are far more likely right now to say that this shutdown is the fault of Republicans. On the other hand, there's a question as to why the president doesn't seem to have a significant sense of urgency to end this.

And the speculation is that for as long as this goes on, it sort of postpones or delays what may be inevitable with regard to a vote and subsequent release about the Epstein files. Can you tell us anything about the conversations with your colleagues? as to whether you or they suspect that that is part of the lack of urgency that we're seeing from the president as a cause? You know, I think that he has yet to really talk to real Americans who are getting their notices about what their health care is going to cost next year. And some of my Republican colleagues are hearing from their constituents who are impacted.

And that's what's creating a sense of urgency among some of them. But as we see more and more notices go out across the country, it's going to be a deafening roar. And I certainly hope, you know, it's so clear to me. I listen to my constituents all the time. I have heard, and I can give you examples. There's Gigi from Stoughton, Wisconsin, who just realized her dream of starting. a small business. She's an artist. And she has a little place on the main street there. But she's just barely getting by. She's on the Affordable Care Act. And she's also a cancer

survivor. And so it's really important for her to have access to her oncologists. And there's certain things she takes because of the treatment she had many years ago. She is terrified. that she will have to close her small business, go work for some big corporation that provides health care, because she will not be able to afford her insurance. And I mean, I have so many examples like that. No, and Senator, that makes sense. But on the Epstein question, do you think that that's a factor here? Well, it's certainly part of the reason why the House is on vacation. Speaker Johnson knows full well that there is a new member who has been duly elected in Arizona. Yes.

Future Congresswoman elect Grijalva. And as soon as she has sworn in, she will be the 218th signature on something called a discharge petition that will demand the release of the Epstein files. Yes. And so he is charged. choosing not to convene. And we are in a shutdown. He could very well bring the house back in session. We can pass our resolution to reopen government and bring down health care costs. But he refuses to do so. And I think that the release of the Epstein files probably weighs heavily in that decision, that calculation on his part. There's another calculation I want to

you about, which is that on the one hand, you've rejected the clean continuing resolution. In other words, one that does not include these provisions related to very important things, including the Obamacare subsidies, makes perfect sense to me on the one hand. On the other hand, there are concerns that Democrats risk ending up on the wrong end of the blame by prolonging the shutdown, or at least the perception of the shutdown. being prolonged by insisting on the policy riders rather than just saying, well, let's just vote, let's just vote on the shutdown. Let's vote on the continuing resolution. Talk about why you, presumably you believe that you're doing the right thing. Otherwise, you wouldn't be doing it. Talk

about that balance between the riders and reopening government and the importance of this. So through the passage last summer of the big ugly bill, there is now an impending health care crisis. They cut nearly a trillion dollars out of Medicaid. Eligible people will lose coverage because of that. But much more immediately, this big ugly bill was predominantly a tax bill. Yes. And while they passed big tax breaks for big profitable corporations and billionaires, they didn't see fit to include a tax break for hardworking American families to afford their health care. And that is an imminent crisis. As we have been having this debate, people have been getting their notices. And it is just skyrocketing. And we need to act urgently.

open enrollment for shopping for your health care plan starts November 1st. We have to act with urgency and a wink and a nod from Leader Thune and Speaker Johnson is not going to be sufficient. So we need to reopen the government

and have an ironclad commitment to deal with this crisis. Yeah, where I struggle on the, you know, sort of like if you have $100 and requests for $200 from the people around you, choices have to be made. There's a hundred bucks to go around, right? And if we apply that, there are people being hurt by the government being closed. Opening it would provide them some relief. But also there are people being hurt by these subsidies being on the chopping block and the price increases that we're talking about. How do you evaluate what and determine how do you, who do we help first

and who do we help more? It seems quite complicated politically. Look, the health care crisis is top of mind. Think about our last election, if we want to do a political analysis of it. President Trump diagnosed the problem correctly during that campaign. Costs are too high. People can't afford their rent. They can't afford housing. They can't afford child care. They can't afford groceries. And they can't afford health care and prescription drugs. The problem is when he took over the presidency, his policies have done just the reverse. They haven't brought down costs on day one, as he said they would. Costs have gone up. The tariffs, the big ugly bill. It is a crisis for so many American families. And so this is

something we must do with urgency. The estimate is that 15 million people will lose their health insurance because of the big ugly bill and the failure to extend the Affordable Care Act tax breaks for affordability of people's premiums. And that is, in my mind, of paramount urgency. Well, Senator, you've identified one of the difficulties with the populist rhetoric, which is we We often hear diagnoses that makes sense, as you're pointing out. But when it comes to the solutions, all of a sudden, we say, wait a second, that's not really the right solution here.

Senator Tammy Baldwin from Wisconsin, I know you've got a busy day. I appreciate you taking a few minutes to talk to us today. Thank you so much for having me. Donald Trump has already packed his second term cabinet with loyalists. He's threatened deportation as political punishment. He's expanded executive authority in ways we have not seen in modern history. These are real changes that are happening right now. And what's even more alarming is that a lot of the media is either glossing over the worst

of it or they're reframing it. So it all sounds a little more palatable. And that is why I use ground news. This is a news comparison tool. Doesn't just feed you headlines. It shows you here's how different outlets left, right center, are covering the same story. And this is one of the few tools I know of that can really help you detect the political spin, the bias catch stories that your usual sources might downplay or not cover at all on everything

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Donald Trump was caught bragging about taking away freedom of speech yesterday, but it didn't happen in some private meeting. It didn't get leaked by someone who heard Trump say it. The guy said it in a room full of people with cameras and microphones. This has to do with the issue of flag burning, a constitutionally protected activity that is a form of speech that the Supreme Court has said is protected. bragging, we're going to imprison people for burning the flag. We took freedom of speech away.

A flag burning mob and we've made it one year penalty for inciting riots. We took the freedom of speech away because that's been through the courts and we took the freedom of speech away. The court said you have freedom of speech, but what has happened is when they burn. a flag, it agitates and irritates crowds. I've never seen anything like it on both sides and you end up with riots. So we're going on that basis. We're looking at it from not from the freedom of speech, which I always felt strongly

about. The freedom of speech. So listen, something irritating or something agitating is still protected by the First Amendment. It's still protected by freedom of speech as a concept. If the idea is, if something is irritating or agitating. to a crowd, we ban it and imprison people, then we, I guess we should be banning racial slurs, right?

When people go out there and start yelling the N word, you can be damn sure it irritates and it agitates. But we haven't made that punishable by a year in prison. If people go out and start using homophobic slurs in public, that'll irritate the crowd. That'll agitate the crowd. By definition, the First Amendment and freedom of speech must include speech we might not like, speech we don't like ourselves. Now, there can be consequences to that speech in society. But we have regularly seen flag burning reaffirmed as a protected

act. I don't burn flags. It's not my thing. I don't go around going, I'm so offended by it, but it's just not something I do. And I've never really felt that. But when people do it, it achieves anything. But that's just my opinion. They are completely within their rights to do it. And Trump, it actually got even worse. Trump hosted a sort of who's who of conspiracy theorists and dilettance of different flavors. Andy Noe was there.

Jack Bazaviak, you can see here on the left of the screen. It's a woman who had a suspicious black eye that suddenly appeared when it was convenient to mention. But anyway, that's another story. Maybe it was a real black guy. I don't know. Anyway, so here's a guy going, I saw someone burning a flag. And Trump kind of goes, you know who he is?

Pam, can we go after that? It is a protected form of speech. Years now. So thank you guys so much for taking this seriously. And President Trump, you mentioned that flag. So remember, you put out a truth right after I took this flag from that, from that. that man that was burning it in the street. Do you know who he is?

Oh, yeah, I know exactly who it is. So why don't you give it to Pam? Give it to the Attorney General and let's start prosecutions. Yeah. I actually have a second flag that he tried to burn as well. So I have two of them from the same guy. So what happened when that flag started burning, everyone went crazy. And that's when it started when they started burning the flag.

So thank you. If you could give the information, it would be great. Absolutely. And at least that horrible night made you famous. He was already famous. I got a text from the president of the United States. So I appreciate that. Did this guy, does this guy have the flag on the floor?

Isn't that a violation of the flag code to have the flag on the floor if that's where he has it? I mean, I can't see under the table, but he's pulling it out from underneath the table. This is disgusting. And this is another example of how the people who scream the loudest about, about whatever. It's obviously a confession. And those who scream the loudest about freedom. of speech seem very willing to just limit it. And then finally, really weird moment, Trump

talking about beautiful black women, beautiful black women. And the people are all against them. They want people to come. Beautiful black women are wearing a mega hat last night on television. Are they? Beautiful people. And they once, they said, we don't care who comes. Just stop the crime. They don't care. Frankly, they don't care if it's National Guard and military. Send in anybody you want, stop the crime. And they're afraid to go out. They can't even go out. Beautiful black women with MAGA hats. What a story. A disgusting, oppressive to speech meeting where the worst of the worst from the right are invited and celebrated as heroes for telling lies and wanting to suppress speech. This is where we find ourselves today. And it is

truly depressing. Breaking news, Donald Trump is going to be undergoing a medical evaluation at Walter Reed Hospital. Now, some of the details are really important here and the context in which this is happening is absolutely critical. The White House is saying that this is Donald Trump's routine yearly checkup. Sources are saying this is not a routine visit. This is all happening when we have these growing questions about Trump's health, about transparency around his health, his ability to serve his fitness for office, and this is sparking new concerns inside of Washington, D.C. Now, the official line from Trump's press secretary, Caroline Levitt, is it's just an annual exam.

There's no big deal here. But you might recall that Donald Trump had a full physical in April. That was just six months ago. That report already was suspicion inducing because of how vague it was and how glowingly propagandistic the report from Trump's doctor was. And so now behind the scenes, Trump aides are reportedly pushing for a more comprehensive look because of all the health concerns that are obvious with Donald Trump, the chronic venous insufficiency diagnosis, which seems worse than they're acknowledging, swelling in the ankles, recent. footage of Trump, as we talked about early last week, has Trump's eyes pointing in notably different directions. Often his right eye and sometimes both are almost completely swollen shut.

He's disoriented regularly, not recognizing people. Trump's balance has been called into question that video when he was going to meet Putin where he seemed unable to just track a straight line. His gate, GAIT, is increasingly a source of questions. And we now have multiple governors and even a senator. who have publicly been saying, this guy's got dementia. We heard it from Gavin Newsom. We heard it from J.B. Pritzker.

We've heard it from Ruben Gallego. And the White House, of course, denies all of this. But still, the calls for a full neurological evaluation are growing, not the Montreal cognitive assessment. Trump identified a giraffe. What a big boy. The calls for a serious and full neuropsych eval are growing. growing quickly. Now, this is not the first time that Donald Trump's health reports have felt

like PR. You know, if you go back to Trump's COVID hospitalization, we were not getting the full story. We were told Trump's going to Walter Reed with COVID out of an abundance of caution. The truth is he was going to Walter Reed because he was advised by doctors. You're getting worse so quickly. If you don't go now, we might have to bring you there on a stretcher. It'd be better from a public relations perspective if you were able to go there under your own power. After he was in the hospital for several days. Reporters asked, is he on oxygen? Was he on oxygen? And doctors said, we're looking forward. He's not on oxygen now without really dealing with the substantive question. Did he need oxygen at any point in time? The physicals talk about Trump's golfing and all of this other

crap. It's all propaganda. And even right now, we are still getting reports about Trump's health that make it sound like he's some kind of athlete in his prime when he's obesity. It's a terrible diet and doesn't exercise. So we have Trump now at 79, close to 80, the oldest person ever to take office as president of the United States. He's fatigued. He's confused. Every single little thing with Joe Biden was the subject of 24 hours of Fox News coverage. And they are silent about Donald Trump. So there's already talk in Washington about trying to get greater transparency, proper medical releases, independent panels, cognitive testing. It's not happening, though.

We've had a decade of vague updates, evasive briefings, and propaganda documents about Donald Trump's health. So Trump is heading to Walter Reed tomorrow. The stakes are extraordinarily high. For me, the question isn't just what will doctors find? It's if doctors find something, will we ever learn about that publicly? and maybe even more insidiously. Remember Trump's whole thing, if we don't test, we won't have COVID cases. I wouldn't even put it past the entire apparatus at the White House to say it's not

about covering up the results. Let's not even test a whole bunch of stuff. Let's do the Montreal cognitive assessment rather than a proper neuropsych eval or even not do that. Why would we suspect that that's what's going on? Because that's what's been going on for a decade. Speaking of Cognitive concerns, Donald Trump spewed a word vomit so vile in yesterday's interview with Fox News that it is causing a new round of can this guy speak? Can this guy think? Here is another one of these impenetrable. It's not even a word salad anymore.

Now it's a word vomit of Trump talking about tariffs to achieve peace. What is he talking about here? I could create peace with tariffs. I'm using them for a lot of different reasons. If that power was taken away from the president of the United States, it would be a terrible, terrible day for our country. And I would say many of the things that I've done could be eradicated, and the United States would be in a very, very bad, vulnerable position.

And these are enemies of the country that are pursuing that lawsuit. And I would hope that that lawsuit would disappear. The country would be in a very different position that it is right now. And you wouldn't be stopping wars. You wouldn't be using the power of trade and the power of tariffs to stop wars. I've used it. I can create peace. This is nuts.

Guys, this is just completely and totally nuts. What is he talking about? Lawsuits, tariffs and peace. Tariffs can create peace. If anything, the tariffs are creating problems. They're creating conflict. They're antagonistic to our historic allies. Trump continuing to be confused about the most basic economic functions.

He says we're taking in trillions with the tariffs, but we're saving millions of lives with the tariffs. What? At least five of the seven that we've done so far. It was through trade that we're not going to deal with people that fight. We're not going to deal and we're going to put tariffs on you. not going to let you deal in the United States, we'll put tariffs on you. Without that, without the tariffs, I mean, far more than even the money that would take

it, which is trillions of dollars, essentially trillions of dollars, far much, more importantly, it gives you a tremendous road to peace. And the saving of millions of lives, just millions and millions of lives, you look at India and Pakistan, I said, well, we're not going to do business with either of you, if you don't put it together. These are two nuclear nations that were seven planes were shot down, as you know, and they were really. What? These are the rantings of a madman. Millions of lives are being saved with tariffs. What are you talking about here? Now, if I am like as if I go completely hypothetical and go,

could tariffs save any lives? I mean, listen, if tariffs move production of something on short, sure that reduces some of the carbon footprint of the transportation. So there's a little bit less pollution and maybe there's a life saved because of that. But like I've got to dig pretty deep into speculative nonsense to figure that out. This guy's not making any sense. And then finally, Donald Trump during this completely hairbrained interview was supposed to be a softball interview, but he sounds terrible. Trump again waxing poetic about how now you can eat at restaurants in D.C.

go and eat at the restaurants, the restaurants are booming. They were closing one after another and now they're booming, they're opening. And this all took place over the last two months. It's amazing actually. Nobody's, nobody's ever seen a transformation like they have in Washington, D.C. Now the truth is that restaurant prices continue to be up in D.C. Takeout prices continue to be up in D.C. And in fact, when Donald Trump militarized the streets of D.C., restaurant reservations,

went down and understandably so. Do you really want to be sitting outside a restaurant or even inside when what you see outside is a militarized pseudo war zone thanks to the delusions of dictatorial grandeur of Donald J. Trump? People don't want it. But Trump insists that everything he touches turns to gold. Really everything he touches turns to coal. But if you're worried about how he sounded in that interview, rest assured he's going to Walter Reed tomorrow for a full medical evaluation. How full is it going to be? Well, I don't know. Are we ever going to hear if there's anything concerning that comes out of it? I don't know either. On the bonus show today, we are going to talk about the Palisades fire arrest that took place, a believed perpetrator.

Katie Porter's viral interview has gone viral for all of the wrong reasons. And we will talk about why gold is having its best year since 1979. The gold bugs are thrilled. going, I told you so. We'll talk about it on the bonus show. Sign up at join packman.com. I'll see you then.