The David Pakman Show - 11/22/22: Georgia Runoff Gets Very Ugly, Kari Lake Off the Deep End

Episode Date: November 22, 2022

-- On the Show: -- Scott Galloway, Professor of Marketing at NYU's Stern School of Business and author of the book "Adrift: America in 100 Charts," joins David to discuss masculinity, media, politics, and much more. Get the book: https://amzn.to/3Xr9dmQ -- Georgia Republican Senate candidate Herschel Walker wildly and without evidence accuses his opponent, incumbent Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock, of sexual and physical abuse of others -- Failed Arizona Republican Gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake announces she will now try to overturn the election she lost against Katie Hobbs, shortly after leaving Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago -- Donald Trump's former Attorney General William Barr says that there is likely a legal basis to indict Donald Trump, but Barr may still vote Trump in 2024 -- Donald Trump is increasingly furious that Republicans are telling him to stay away from the Georgia Senate runoff between Raphael Warnock and Herschel Walker -- The latest attack narrative is that David's supposed lack of coverage of Elon Musk's purchase of Twitter is because David drives a Tesla -- A very angry Trump-supporting voicemail caller has "speak to the manger" vibes -- On the Bonus Show: Tracking progress on climate change, New Zealand lawmakers will vote on lowering voting age to 16, the rising cost of Thanksgiving, much more... 💻 Get Private Internet Access for 82% OFF + 3 months free at https://www.piavpn.com/David 🧪 MEL Science: Use code PAKMAN for 50% OFF at https://melscience.com/sBLN/ 🔪 Kamikoto: Get an extra $50 OFF with code PAKMAN at https://kamikoto.com/pakman 🪒 Henson Shaving: Use code Pakman for FREE blades at https://hensonshaving.com/pakman 🌳 Established Titles: Code PAKMAN for extra 10% OFF at https://establishedtitles.com/pakman -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Subscribe to Pakman Finance: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanfinance -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

Speaker 1 The Georgia Senate runoff has gone completely off the rails as Republican Senate candidate Herschel Walker has accused Raphael Warnock of sexual assault and physical assault. What? What is he talking about? None of us know. And increasingly, the question is being asked, does Walker even have any idea what he's talking about? Is this defamation?

Let's look at the clip. This is, you know, to say it's gotten ugly is this defamation. Let's look at the clip. This is, you know, to say it's gotten ugly is an understatement. I genuinely don't know whether Walker has any idea what he's saying, but that would not be an excuse here. That would not be an excuse. This is the height of dangerous irresponsibility. Herschel Walker spoke yesterday at some event. He's doing these campaign events all over Georgia. And he said, you know, there was physical abuse and there was sexual abuse. Who did it? It has to be Senator Raphael Warnock.

Now I'll tell you what this relates to in a moment. Here's the clip. Speaker 4 He's not what he's claimed to be. And some of the best people that are known and best said that he's an actor. He's an actor because y'all know what he did at that camp as well. Y'all may not have heard this. This young man said that was a sexual abuse and that was physical abuse. And I'm like, who did that?

It had to be Senator Raphael Warnock because he was responsible for it. Y'all didn't hear about that, did you? He don't want to talk about those things because he don't want you to know that. He thinks you're going to be, he gets a good senator for you. I'm telling you right now, it is time for a change. Yeah. Now, if you can make heads or tails out of that unintelligible word salad, by all means, go ahead and do it. This is so difficult because Walker clearly is saying that Raphael Warnock sexually

abused and physically abused a kid. OK, it's clear that he's saying those words. But at the same time, it's never really clear that Walker has any idea what he's saying. And I know every time we talk about this, oh, David, well, that's not really issues oriented or he has a brain injury from football that hasn't been said, or this is because of his dissociative identity disorder that he says these things that that's not the explanation that they're giving. We have to go by what he is saying. And there's a real question as to whether this is potentially defamatory. Now, again, it's not clear Walker knows what he's saying because it's never clear he knows what he's saying. But what this is about relates to allegations that camp counselors 20 years ago at a camp where Warnock Warnock ran the camp. But there's no allegations that Warnock

did any of this stuff. The allegation is that a 12 year old boy was forced to sleep outside at the camp and had urine tossed on him by camp counselors. OK. Absolutely horrible allegations. And the incident was investigated in 2001, 2002. It resulted in no charges. Law enforcement later called it a miscommunication. And it was never even alleged that Warnock did any of this stuff. Now, you could say, well, if indeed it happened, maybe Raphael Warnock, who was running the camp, had some ultimate responsibility. But the idea that Warnock is a sexual or physical abuser is completely out of this world. Now the question then becomes, is this defamatory? Because in general, you know, if some random person on Twitter with five followers tweets

that Raphael Warnock sexually and physically abused someone. It's not defamatory because it's not damaging to Warnock. But when we look at the requirements for defamation, the information that is allegedly defamatory must be published. Well, that means that it's public. And here's the video. We looked at the video, so it certainly meets that standard. The person being defamed was clearly identified by the statement, meaning is it clear that Walker is talking about his opponent, Senator Raphael Warnock? I would argue it's clear that it is. He says Raphael Warnock is the one who did this. There's no confusion as to whether he means someone else by that name or anything like that. Number three, the remarks have a negative effect

on the person's reputation. That's the question. We don't know yet. But if it starts to spread in such a tight race, the completely baseless allegation that Warnock is a physical and sexual abuser, you could argue that those remarks have a negative impact on Warnock's reputation. Number four is, is the information demonstrably false? Well, it's hard to prove negatives, but there's certainly no evidence that these allegations about Warnock are true. And the police investigation generally into this incident at the camp, which isn't even alleged to be Warnock's doing, found no legal wrongdoing.

And it didn't even allege that Warnock was the one doing it. And then number five, the defendant is at fault. In other words, that it is indeed Herschel Walker who made made these claims and made them in a way that is consistent with with reckless disregard or there's different different standards in different states. You arguably have a defamation case here. Now, what I care more about is can we just get Raphael Warnock over the finish line before some new thing comes up that gets in the way of this campaign? And I think, again, without defending or attacking the individual incident and what supposedly happened to this 12 year old, what Walker said is not even remotely based in fact, and the crowd just sort of goes along with it. The real disturbing part of all of this is that this race even went to a runoff.

That's really the disturbing part that the Georgia voters, Georgia Republican voters, and this is a theme that we are following in their desperation to not vote for a Democrat. They are voting for someone who is completely unqualified, doesn't have a sensible position that he can articulate on any issue and on a personal level is a complete hypocrite with regard to the policy positions that he sort of claims to advocate to the extent that we can understand him completely against abortion. In all cases, no exception. Well, he urged two women and paid for two women to get abortions. Says we need we need men not to be absent fathers. He's an absent father to multiple kids that we know about. It's not even totally clear to me how many kids it is and on and on and on. That alone

is not a reason to vote against him. But the totality of the situation should lead to this guy losing by 40 points. And instead, it was so close within one point with neither candidate able to secure 50 percent of the vote that now we have a runoff on December 6th. Let's really hope that our Georgia friends who vote in Georgia get out there and make this extraordinarily important vote. We'll have live coverage on December 6th. That's the day of the runoff. Going now from Georgia to Arizona, Carrie Lake, who lost, she lost. Nothing happened other than Carrie Lake lost. Her opponent, Katie Hobbs, got more votes in the Arizona gubernatorial election

on November 8th. Carrie Lake was recently at Trump's house in Mar-a-Lago, and now all of a sudden she says she's going to try to overturn the election results. You know, we I don't know that I can say that we were joking around, but we certainly talked about how it seems very clear that the new strategy and it's not even really a strategy because it hasn't worked at all. It's more of like a last ditch effort tactic. The new thing we're going to see from these Republicans is when they lose, they will say that it's rigged and then they will try to overturn the election and they will continue putting out these imaginary milestones.

Oh, well, we're getting very close to submitting affidavits. All right. I mean, affidavits aren't evidence. Strictly speaking, they can be considered, but affidavits are not evidence of wrongdoing. Well, very soon a court is going to hear our case. Mike Pillow has been talking about that for two years. We're moving for decertification. We heard that one from Steve Bannon many times. Is there such a process as decertification? No, but we're moving towards decertification. And by the way, keep donating, keep donating to me, donate to Trump, donate to everybody. OK, so here's a clip of Carrie Lake. Carrie Lake lost. She had this pompous arrogance going into the election. I will be the next governor of Arizona. More people voted for

her opponent. When things go right, the person who gets more votes wins. Carrie Lake doesn't like that. It looked like she was getting ready to move on. Now she says she's assembling evidence and she's going to run some kind of campaign to overturn the election. Sorry to remedy this assault on our democracy. This isn't about Republicans or Democrats. This is about our sacred right to vote. Yeah. What's funny is as much as they claim it's not about Republicans or Democrats, they only claim that this fraudulent stuff took place when a Democrat has defeated a Republican. So so find me a case where you try to overturn an election in which a Republican defeated a Democrat.

Find me one example. Speaker 4 A right that many voters were sadly deprived of on November 8th. Tens of thousands of you have reached out pleading with me to fight this fight. Is that even true? Tens of thousands, I'm sure thousands, but tens of thousands reached out. Just assured I will, because if we give up now, we will no longer have a country. Attorneys are working diligently to gather information. Whistleblowers are coming forward and the curtain is being lifted, whether done accidentally or intentionally.

It is clear that this election was a debacle that destroyed any trust in our elections. What she means is I lost. Arizonans who choose to make their voice heard on Election Day should not be disenfranchised or punished for choosing to vote in person. Now, what she's referring to is that for a little while, a few tabulators in Maricopa County didn't work. That that's what she's talking about. Yet they were. I want you to know, Arizona, I will continue fighting until we restore confidence and faith in our elections. You know, I'm pretty confident and and I have faith in what happened. The candidate who got more votes, Katie Hobbs, is going to be the next governor of Arizona.

And all of the evidence points to the voters of Arizona wanted Katie Hobbs to be the governor. They can recount it over and over. They can do these audits. And remember, they call for an audit. The audit is done. And then they go, no, that was the wrong type of audit. They only looked at a recount of the ballots without evaluating whether the ballots were valid. The ballots were valid. It's the wrong type of audit. Well, you know, they didn't look at whether there were barbecue sauce stains from a type of barbecue sauce common in Missouri. You shouldn't have

Missouri barbecue sauce on Arizona ballots. It just doesn't make sense. Clearly, there was some kind of fraud. What about bamboo fibers? What about pictures of koala bears tucked into the ballots? It's all very you will never satisfy them that the process has been completed the way they want. And Luke Beasley, our correspondent who was recently at a Trump rally for us in I believe he went to the Pennsylvania one. They blend together. I believe he was in Latrobe, Pennsylvania. Luke or was it North Carolina? Doesn't matter. Luke interviewed folks where they said, oh, there was all this fraud. And Luke said, yeah, but there's no actual evidence. And they did the audit. They go down and now that wasn't really an audit in the way we wanted. And what they mean is it wasn't an audit that overturned

the election so that the Republican won. It's so completely predictable. Thankfully, it's over. I mean, it Katie Hobbs won. She will be the governor. Nothing's getting overturned, period. And the problem now becomes this is standard operating procedure for Republicans. They have now adopted this. We don't like the results. We say it was rigged. We say it's just not believable that Katie Hobbs won because she has fewer Facebook followers. It's similar to it's not believable. Biden won because his live streams didn't get a lot of viewers or his rallies didn't have huge

crowds. This is the new refrain. This is the new refrain. And unfortunately, you know, after 2020, we wondered, is this ending with 2020? No, it extended to the special elections in 2021 in January in Georgia. It extended to the midterm elections a couple of weeks ago in 2022. And it seems pretty clear that this is going to be the narrative that continues. If we lost, it was rigged with all of the exact same statements. It's extraordinarily dangerous. And so far, it hasn't flipped any races for them. Imagine for a second that this story about fraud and lawsuits and recounts and barbecue sauce on ballots and all this stuff. Imagine it actually flips an election for them at some point. They will never stop using it if that's the case.

That's why it's really important that we ensure they aren't actually able to steal an election by claiming fraud and using these tactics. Everything you do online can be tracked by your ISP, by tech platforms, the government hackers. Everyone should be using a VPN. Every time you connect to the Internet, you turn it on once you forget about it. It's easy. Many VPNs secretly

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you to sign up at join Pacman dot com. You can use the coupon code. Twenty four starts now to get a sizable discount. William Barr now says there is a basis to indict Donald Trump, but maybe I'll still vote for him in 2024. This is really beyond belief. And it's it's not beyond belief in the sense that these Republicans, former Trump associates and staffers who we say, hey, you know what? He or she, they saw the light. Eventually, John Bolton eventually came out and said Trump's incompetent and dangerous. Whoever the case may be, at the end of the day, they are still part of the no matter how bad Trump is, I'm not voting for a Democrat.

So let's go through this. This is truly stunning stuff. This was an interview on PBS, PBS, where Bill Barr was interviewed by Margaret Hoover. And he believes, first and foremost, that the Department of Justice at this point almost certainly has a legitimate legal basis for indicting Donald Trump. First clip. Take a listen. In September, you said the Justice Department was getting close. You said, quote, getting close to having

enough evidence to indict Trump in the classified documents investigation. But you also said you hope they don't indict him. In your view, is there ever a circumstance where you think is appropriate to indict a former president? Oh, yes. You know, if a former president commits a crime, you know, especially a serious crime, they should be indicted for it. If the Department of Justice can show that these were indeed very sensitive documents, which I think they probably were, and also show that the president consciously was involved in misleading the department, deceiving the government, and playing games after he had received the subpoena for the documents. Those are serious charges.

That's a serious enough crime. That's serious. That's a serious enough crime. Well, I personally think that they probably have the basis for legitimately indicting the press. I don't know. I'm speculating. But but given what's gone on, I think they probably have the evidence that would check

the box. They have the case. That's pretty clear. That's a former attorney general saying they probably have the evidence to legitimately indict my former boss, the former president. So certainly William Barr would not consider voting in 2024 for a guy who so mismanaged and mishandled at least some aspects of his job, that his behavior was worthy of an indictment. Right. I mean, William Barr is a man of the law and of law and order.

Former attorney general lawyer. He would not say. And by the way, I'm going to vote to reelect that guy who I think we can legitimately indict. Well, he might he might vote for him. If Donald Trump were the nominee for the Republican Party again, would you support him? Well, I'm just hoping it never comes to that because I think it would be a tragedy if he's our nominee, if he's the Republican nominee.

Could you vote against him? Could you vote not for the Republican if Donald Trump were the Republican nominee? Well, again, I think it gets down to what I said, which is I would have to make the judgment at that point, the impact on the country, and I'll have to see what's going on in the world, what who the Democratic nominee is. If it's a progressive Democratic nominee, I can't imagine voting for it. Right. Between a criminal president and a progressive.

I'm not voting for the progressive. I'm clearly voting for the criminal, illogically progressive versus somebody who orchestrated an attack on the Capitol, who betrayed his oath to the Constitution. As you said in your words, you still might vote for him. Yeah, yeah, I might vote for him. Sure. Betrayed his oath. Sure. But at least he doesn't want universal health care for everybody. I mean, that's crazy. Depending on all this, it's hard for me to project what the future holds. The question is always a comparative one. You have to make a choice between two people. I That's crazy. Depending on all this, it's hard for me to project what the future holds. The question is always a comparative one.

You have to make a choice between two people. I don't believe in throwing my vote away on a third party. You don't rule out supporting President Trump again. No, I don't. Depends on the circumstances. I pray that that doesn't come. I think the reason our republic is in jeopardy is because we are not throwing up the best and the brightest for these offices. That's for damn sure.

That's for damn sure. So a reminder, when we stumble across so-called sensible Republicans who have figured out the truth about Trump and bubba bubba bubba, at the end of the day, it's about self-preservation. It's about what's good for me now. I think there are some exceptions. When I look at Mitt Romney. I'm not a fan of Romney, but he did have this brief moment where it seemed like he was sort of auditioning to be secretary of state.

He went and had turtle soup and frogs legs or whatever it was with Trump before Trump was inaugurated. And it didn't work out that way. And maybe it would have Trump before Trump was inaugurated. And it didn't work out that way. And maybe it would have gone differently and I'd feel differently. But Mitt Romney has pretty consistently stuck to his framework for conservatism as he sees it. And it has not really overlapped with Trumpism. He's been clear. He marked marched with the Black Lives Matter protesters. He has been consistently anti-Trump. He's been clear. He marked marched with the Black Lives Matter protesters. He has been consistently anti Trump.

He entertained it when he met with Trump that time. It's closer to. A type of Republican I can respect, not in terms of agreeing with their positions, but in terms of how they've handled all this, but the Bolton, the you know, even Liz Cheney, to some degree, I just don't know. I just don't know. I think this is basically what we should expect from all of them. And Barr says, listen, betraying your country and all of that better than an ideological progressive, which tells you a lot of what you need to know about the MAGA crowd. Donald Trump is absolutely furious that Republicans are telling him stay the hell

away from Georgia. There is a Senate runoff in Georgia of critical importance on December 6th. It is Raphael Warnock, the incumbent Democrat against Republican challenger Herschel Walker. The winner on December 6th will determine do Democrats hold the Senate 50 50 needing needing every Democratic vote and then Kamala Harris as a tiebreaker to get things done? Or do Democrats take a 51 49 helm of the Senate, making either Joe Manchin or Kyrsten Sinema a little bit irrelevant in getting things passed. It's very important. There is, of course, this guy named Donald Trump who's running for president in 2024.

He wants to be seen as the savior and the winner everywhere, despite his pretty bad endorsement outcomes in the November 8th, 2022 midterms. And Republicans seem to recognize if Trump comes to Georgia to, quote, help Walker, it might actually be a really bad thing. And there's a very interesting Rolling Stone article. Trump is pissed. Republicans keep telling him to stay away from Georgia. It's by Aza Win, subsang and Nikki Ramirez with a runoff election looming. They write the newly announced 2024 candidate doesn't want his rivals getting any attention while his party wards him away. And they write as Republicans pour party resources into the Georgia Senate runoff.

Donald Trump is getting irritated at the idea that virtually no one of importance wants him to campaign in Georgia. In the lead up, several Republicans and Trump allies already told him not to hold a Georgia rally ahead of the runoff, according to two people familiar with the matter. Trump has, however, suggested that those close to those close to him, that he'll react poorly if Florida's Governor Ron DeSantis campaigns in Georgia while the Republican Party holds its once undisputed leader at arm's length. People who have recently spoken to Trump fear if DeSantis announces a Georgia event, it would guarantee that Trump also heads to the state.

Trump has also vehemently argued to aides in confidence that his presence in the runoff would be a net positive for Walker. And he's accused pundits and Republicans who say he shouldn't go to Georgia are unintelligent Trump haters. I want Trump in Georgia. I really do hold rallies, talk about how the next election is going to be rigged and how the previous one was rigged and it was stolen and it was all stolen. Stand right next to Herschel Walker and say this is one of the people we need to get in there. But it was rigged. And how where's my African-American and all the crazy stuff? Do it. I think it will be bad for Herschel Walker. If Walker wins, there is obviously something very

wrong with the people of Georgia. And the fact that Warnock didn't win outright and we need a runoff, I've already said complete and total disaster. I'm no, no question whatsoever. We are where we are right now, which is that the two point one percent of the vote that went to the third party candidate could go either way. And it's going to come down to turnout and it's going to come down to ground game. I can think of few things worse for Walker than what was bad for other candidates a few weeks ago, which is Trump showing up, ranting for 90 minutes or two hours about voter fraud and how he did really well in 2020 and then kind of saying, yeah, and vote for this guy or gal. It wasn't good for the contested races. It wasn't good for Mastriano. It wasn't

good for Oz. It wasn't good for Tudor Dixon. It wasn't good for Carrie Lake. J.R. Majewski lost. John Gibbs lost and on and on and on. So I say bring Trump to Georgia and let him wreak havoc. Even better would be if it becomes, for lack of a better term, a penis size contest between Trump and DeSantis to the detriment of Herschel Walker. We know that Barack Obama will be campaigning with Raphael Warnock. If the scheduling lines up, we will cover that live. And if indeed this sort of slurry of Republican rallies with Trump, DeSantis, et cetera, materialize for Walker, we will cover those as well. But most importantly, and I know I've said it before and I'm going to say it again. Most importantly, if you live in Georgia, if you're registered to vote in Georgia, make sure that you vote because

this one is of critical importance. Make sure also that you're subscribed to our YouTube channel. If you're watching right now on YouTube and you look at that subscribe button up there or down below wherever it is and it's enabled, if it says subscribe rather than subscribed. Hit that button. There's over three million people who watch our videos and don't yet subscribe. Help us get to two million subscribers. We're going to take a quick break and be right back. I love cooking at home. I cook all the time. Having a good set of knives that you actually like to use is really important. For years, I have been a fan of the advantages that Japanese knives offer. And our sponsor, Kamikodo, makes amazing Japanese steel kitchen knives using the traditional techniques that date back to the Edo period of Japan. Kamikodo only uses steel from Japan.

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Scott, great to have you on. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me, David. You know, there's always a risk to introducing anyone because my audience will say, well, David, you're really very wrong about how you framed this guest. But one of the things that well, I'm going to acknowledge that risk and say one of the things I find interesting about some of your work is you talk about men and gender and masculinity in a way that to me seems quite both empathetic, but also realistic when it comes to men and boys without falling into what some might describe as sort of like a men's rights activist type umbrella and dismiss what you say. I've actually been really interested about a lot of the things that you've talked about, about modern masculinity. Do you find that there is a desire

from those who listen to your commentary on gender and men? There's a desire to put you either on this side or that side, or that there really is a sort of welcoming of the, the, the way you want to discuss it, which I think is much more nuanced than many others. I, thanks for the question. It's a thoughtful question. I, it's changed a lot. If you talked about, if you advocated for young men two years ago and said that, you know, when it was 60, 40 male, female in college, and now it's reversed, but we're not talking about it. People saw it as a zero sum game and they immediately conflated advocating for young men or highlighting some of the struggles young men face as being

misogynist. You couldn't be pro-male without being anti-female. And over the last 24 months, it's changed. And unfortunately, I think some of that is because a lot of the kind of pro, there was a lot of thinly veiled misogyny masking is pro-male. I don't, I think some of the celebrities that are, or people on TikTok that have gotten some attention, it's just blatantly a fairly conservative, um, there's some, there's some troubling aspects to, to some of the people who've been labeled as pro-male and that is they're blaming women or that the, some of their content does come off as misogynist. So I don't think that's helped have a serious conversation. But you have people like Richard Reeves and talking his great book of boys to men.

I've read about half of it so far. Yeah, I've said, look, this is clearly an issue. And the the group I hear from, I hear from three cohorts. I hear from young men and oftentimes they're upset because they think I'm accusing them of being incels. And so I get both positive and negative feedback from young men. I get some negative feedback from young women who feel as if, look, where were you? Men have had a 400 year head start.

Where were you when women were struggling? And I would argue, well, I think we were there for women and we still have work to do. But I think society has been there. The people I get the most support from, hands down, are mothers. And the conversation goes something like this. I have two daughters. One's a pen, one's in PR in Chicago, both killing it. And I have a son who's in the basement vaping and playing video games.

And the data is just overwhelming. And we're finally having an honest conversation about the fact that three times is likely to be addicted, four times is likely to kill themselves, 12 times is likely to be incarcerated. Two, for every one male college graduate in the next year, five years, we're going to have two female college graduates. So there are real issues here. And also there's an emerging class of recognition that the people who would like more economically and emotionally viable young men is women. So I think we're finally having what I'd call a civil conversation around it. One of the things that I find really interesting, and I hope I'm summarizing some of the things you've written and said accurately, and if not, I'm sure you'll tell me, is that you point out,

or I at least interpret some of the things you say is pointing out that some of the grievances that may be the more right leaning folks on this issue have about the state of young men are a direct result of some of the cultural shifts and norms and stories that are told by those very people in terms of I'll give a few examples. What is what is masculine when it comes to parenting as an example? And these images of and stereotypes of, hey, you know, the dad pushing around the stroller rather than working, that's not masculine in the way that it should be for as an example, or that's my example, not yours necessarily. Or stories about, you know, empathy and being in touch with one's emotions should be should not be welcomed, for example, among so-called masculine

men. It seems to me, and I'm curious whether you agree that some of those stories maybe perpetuate the very problems that you're pointing out? Yeah, it's an interesting conversation because I think masculinity is a wonderful thing and it's been incorrectly conflated with toxicity, which is just bullshit. Toxic masculinity is a term that has really been destructive because there are just certain situations where people want to demonstrate masculinity. And the key is to define what it means. I think it means being more risk aggressive. It means taking chances. If I tried to attributes. I'm kind of most of my friends I would describe as as having more feminine attributes than the majority of men. But let's celebrate femininity and the wonderful things it brings to the fore and also masculinity. So I believe, for example, and I've gotten for

saying this, I think every man should take economic responsibility for their household. And by the way, sometimes that means recognizing, as much as it may hurt, that your partner is better at that whole money thing than you and taking more responsibility for supporting her career, his career, and getting out of the way. I think that's a masculine attribute. Somebody, and ideally both of you, need to take economic responsibility for the household. I think being really, really strong and having incredible grit and resilience, lifting heavy weights, running long distances in your mind and in the gym is a wonderful thing. Men are stronger than women. Lean into that. They're stronger physically. Women are stronger in terms of their ability to endure, you know, they have much higher threshold for pain. Otherwise they would never survive childbirth. Yeah. But I say to young men, if you are not strong, you should be able to walk in any room and have the confidence that if shit got real,

you could kill and eat everybody or outrun them. And I'm not suggesting you do either of those things, but I'm suggesting it's a wonderful thing to lean into and there's nothing wrong with it. And then what do you do without strength? You're more confident. You're more kind. In certain situations, you de-escalate the situation. The strongest, most impressive men I've ever met in a bar fight are the ones that step in and de-escalate the situation. That's what it means to be a man.

That's what it means to express masculinity. So I like the idea of trying to define, you know, if you're Tarzan, what vines you're going to swing on. Masculinity for me when I was, you know, you look like a very young man, David, but when I was young, I thought masculinity meant being awesome, sleeping with as many strange women as possible and being ripped. I didn't go into the gym to get fit. I went in to be big. And now as I've gotten older, I find that, you know, being civic, voting, being friendly to your neighbors, taking an interest in a child that isn't yours. I think that being really strong, you know, now for my age, and I hate to say that I have to qualify

everything for my age. Those things make me feel strong like bull. And I'm leaning into those things. I love those things. I love making and spending a lot of money. I love protecting people. And I'm doing a lot of virtue signaling right now. But those are masculine attributes. I'm a risk aggressive person. I've started businesses and there's nothing and I'm physical on a lot of dimensions. And those are wonderful attributes. And by the way, women can demonstrate those attributes. But masculinity should be absolutely celebrated when Ukrainians or when Russians pour over the border. As Bill Maher said, you know, the Ukrainian army, you want some of that big energy. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think we need to celebrate it. It comes with downsides. It comes with upsides, as does every other attribute of

the species. But I'd say lean into it and just define what it means. And we need a more mature version of masculinity. Last thing I want to mention on this and then I want to talk about the book a little bit. I'm curious. I've not heard you comment on this and I don't know if you have. One of the things I've observed over the last six to 18 months in the political space has been that one of the topics that gets the biggest rise out of right wing crowds. And by this, I'm talking about your typical Trump rally, as well as CPAC in Texas over the summer. What got the crowd the most excited was stuff about gender and trans

people. One of the biggest applause lines at CPAC over the summer was when Ted Cruz said, my pronouns are kiss my ass. And the crowd went absolutely crazy. One of the biggest applause lines at CPAC over the summer was when Ted Cruz said, my pronouns are kiss my ass. And the crowd went absolutely crazy. One of the biggest applause lines during the Trump rally is when Trump talks about a trans woman in a weightlifting competition, easily lifting hundreds of pounds more than everybody else. And just how, you know, we got we got to get men out of women's sports, et cetera, et cetera. Do you make anything or what do you make of the fact that those stories have become so titillating to a large portion of the country? Well, when when everything is, you know, when everything is a nail, you know, all you have or is what looks like a cultural war. And that is we don't want to talk about income inequality.

We don't want to talk about inflation or growing the economy. So let's get people emotionally triggered by a small number of instances that the governor of South Dakota spends precious resources and time trying to pass a law that protects women's sports from transgender athletes. And by the way, conceptually, it's a conversation worth having. I don't think a six foot five person born as a male who's had testosterone pour over their muscle and bone structure should be competing in what had traditionally been a woman's swim meet. I think that's an honest conversation we should have. But when you have the governor of a state passing laws to quote quote unquote, protect girls sports, and then we find there isn't a single instance in the entire state of a of a person triggering people and and leading us down a path of demonstrating hate towards a community that has been subjected to so much bullshit? It's just I mean, at the end of the day, the far right claims to embrace Jesus.

We're supposed to be loving people. We're supposed to be loving people. We're supposed to be accepting of them. We're supposed to be. And they also, one of the things I love about GOP principles is in really tough issues, you defer to the individual. Why wouldn't we let families and doctors figure out what is or isn't the right thing about this? If we end up in a statewide swim meet, okay, let's have the conversation. But we're talking about, it's again, it's a similar conversation where they say, well, Democrats want you to be able to abort your baby, you know, the week before your water breaks. That doesn't happen. It's a

theoretical situation meant to trigger people emotionally and divide us. It's not productive. It's rooted in hate. It's rooted in cheap politics. And it doesn't advance us forward. One of the things from my book is a segue to the book, looking at all the issues that plague us, David, whether it's income inequality, whether it's the very serious issues around climate change, whether it's, you know, our polarization. If America's problems were a horror movie, it would be the call is coming from inside of the house. Instead of taking time to focus on how we establish more chips to ensure that we're not relying on the Chinese during a conflict, instead of focusing on how we ensure that we bring up our

bottom fifth of education level, that we get one out of five households out of poverty that have children. We start talking about this bullshit and we start talking. And when I say bullshit, I mean anything that divides us. 34% of Democrats, I'm sorry, 54% of Democrats are worried the kid's going to marry a Republican. A third of people in each party think people in the other party are their mortal enemy. Americans will never have greater allies than other Americans. And I find the far right, especially, but also the far left, are more interested in embarrassing the other side than they are about advancing the nation. And we have to get back to a point where we recognize, first and foremost, we're Americans. We're not Republicans and Democrats.

I'm a huge World War II history buff. I have this great photo of these men wading into the water as the front gate slammed down on their landing craft heading towards Omaha Beach in the invasion of Normandy. Two out of three of these men, average age 26, wouldn't leave the beach alive. And I imagine that they can suspend the time space continuum, see our problems and go, you can't fix that. I can't imagine any of those men looked at each other and even knew who was a Republican or a Democrat. So we are energy independent. We are food independent. We have eradicated diseases. We are more we are more prosperous than any nation in the world. But we've decided we don't like each other.

And when you take very tiny examples of trans athletes that are meant to evoke an emotional response, all you are doing is saying, I want Americans to hate each other. I don't want America to move forward. I want Americans to hate each other. We should have an honest conversation. Parents who want to have an honest conversation around gender affirmation and be informed when a kid under the age of 18 asks for hormone therapy at a school, that's an honest conversation. We should have that conversation. But according to Republican principles, we should have it at the school and the family level. And to be blunt, this is really an edge of edge case. And they want to turn it into a cultural issue because they don't want to really talk about what ails us. So it's like, come on, let's get back to where we were as Again, the book is Adrift America and 100 Charts. One of the things that will often happen when you talk to folks who are maybe to some degree siloed in a particular area is there's this sometimes instinct to say, here's really the

chart or the statistic or the issue that explains all or the vast majority of what's going on. There's this desire to be like, this is the thing really that that this is all about. And sometimes it's income inequality or it's the climate or it's the gender pay gap or whatever the case may be. One of the interesting things about your book is that you actually look at a ton of different dimensions. But I guess the question I have is, is there some overarching thing that you believe links these together in terms of explaining this adrift status quo that you point out some some general takeaway, which then we can use to look at some of the specifics.

So if you had to zero in on one chart, there would be ground zero, um, for the, for the detonation and all our other problems are kind of the blast zone as you go to a different outer rings. It's in the early seventies, up until the early seventies, productivity and wage growth were like two snakes intertwined. The nation got more productive through manufacturing or processes or service technologies and wages went up. We got much more productive. Wages went up a lot. We shared in our prosperity. In the early 70s, wages went flat for 50 years, despite the fact that productivity kept going up into the right. And the delta between those two lines is literally tens of trillions of dollars in surplus value that wage earners current income didn't get to participate in and I think that when When you have now for the first time in the nation's history a 30 year old man or woman isn't doing as well as his

Or her parents were at the age of 30 When you have for the first time more than half of people under the age of 30 are not living over the romantic partner or a Friend they're living with their parents. You have rage. You have shame. You have roommates reminding you of your failure every day named mom and dad. And when people aren't doing well, when the ultimate compact in our society, and that is your kids will do better than you, has been broken, people look for scapegoats.

They get angry. They start believing in conspiracy theory. They start looking for heroes and cult figures that will rally them and blame somebody else and tell them that they're victims. So the lack of shared progress, we've been enormously prosperous over the last 50 years. We will produce this month. We will produce more output this month than we produced an entire year in the 1950s. You could see in five to 10 years, we might be more output this month than we produced an entire year in the 1950s. You could see in five to 10 years, we might be able to produce as much in a quarter as we produced in a decade in the middle of the last century. The problem is a lot of that prosperity is not translating to progress. Because if you don't feed the engine that fights your wars, pays the

majority of your taxes, and is responsible for civility and progress in our nation. See above the middle class. A society declines. China has brought 500 million people into the middle class in the last 50 years. We've shed 10 million. So in some ground zero, the epicenter is when wages decoupled from productivity. And does that I mean, I can speculate about how that would connect to education that would connect to dealing with climate issues that would connect to social services, access to health care. I mean, it seems as though when you think about that particular chart where you start to see a separation between productivity and wage growth, you really can connect that to so many of the different charts and things you talk about.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I really it just ripples out. And what you have is there's this there's a few myths that we need to bust. The first is that the middle class is a naturally occurring economic force. It's not if you let the economy just run totally, you know, Ayn Rand is totally free market. The middle class starts to erode because wealthy people get access to powerful politicians, especially with Citizens United, who tend to take the tax code from 400 pages to 4,000. Who can navigate a complex tax code? The wealthy.

If you can navigate by starlight, you want to run boat races at night. Our tax code is complex. People at my income level can afford people to help them navigate. And we end up with a regressive tax structure. Education, me and my colleagues every morning wake up in the morning and say, ask ourselves one question. How do we reduce our accountability while increasing our compensation? We have found the ultimate strategy, and that is tap into the 10% wealthiest American households with a luxury positioning. And that is artificially constrained supply such that 30, 20, 10% admission rates. And we stand up and applaud the dean and the alumni love it. And we've morphed towards this bullshit, rejectionist luxury positioning in our society where once I have a degree from a good university, I want them to pull up the drawbridge because then my degree becomes more valuable. Once I have a house, I show up to the local review board and try and squash any new development to make the price of my house go up. And once I have a successful tech company,

I weaponize government to not let any emerging companies come out of the crib through monopoly abuse. If we don't consistently create opportunities for other people to enjoy the prosperity that my generation has enjoyed, if you don't have churn, if you don't stop these ridiculous bailouts of small businesses and create a cartoon, the wealthiest people in America are small business people. When you just bail out rich people and companies, you're robbing from young people. Because the reason I'm wealthy is because as I was coming into my prime income years in 2008, Amazon and Apple went down 90% and I got to buy them and then register a 20 and 40 fold respectively increase. And two years ago, we decided to bail out the markets. And as a result, as a result, young people didn't get

their shot to buy Brooklyn real estate or Amazon stock, you know, at 40, 60, 70% off. So America used to be the best place to get rich. It's slowly but surely become the best place to stay rich. Everything we do right now, fiscally and legislatively, is an attempt to take money from a younger generation who have seen their wealth go from 19% of GDP to 9%. We have cut the wealth of people your age in half. The average person, 7-year-old, is 72% wealthier than they were 40 years ago. The average person under the age of 40 is 22% less wealthy. My generation has basically said to a younger generation, F*** you.

I got mine. Get yours. I'm going to borrow your credit card and your kid's credit card. So it's that Nana and Pop-Up can upgrade from Carnival to Crystal Cruises. Unless we reinvest in the middle class, it will correct and the means of correction will either be war, famine or revolution. I hate to end on such a negative word, but it wasn't not every not every interview has a happy ending, which is OK, which is OK.

We've been speaking with Scott Galloway, professor of marketing at NYU, also author of Adrift America in 100 Charts. Scott, I really appreciate your time and talking to me today. David, thanks for your good work and thanks for having me. If you have a friend or loved one who is passionate about the environment, here is a perfect holiday gift. Our sponsor, Established Titles, is a project that lets you It's a great show. Scottish tradition. Some people even change their plane tickets or credit cards to include Lord or Lady. Your title pack comes with an official certificate. You can see exactly where your plot of land is located. It makes a perfect last minute gift. But most importantly, established titles plants one free tree for every plot of land sold. Established Titles does really good work all over the world with reforestation organizations like One Tree Planted and Trees for the Future. So you'll have

a great laugh whether you're Scottish or not. I'm not. But you're giving the gift of reforestation to fight climate change. If you use my link, you'll get 10 percent off and your plot of land will be right next to mine. You can see it on a map. Go to established titles dot com slash Pacman and use the code Pacman for an extra 10 percent off on top of their Black Friday deal. The link is in the podcast notes. I apologize in advance, but this is going to be like a little bit of a rant segment. I'm really sick of a particular type of message that I received a few of recently about Elon Musk and Tesla. And it's the you must be ignoring this particular story because of some personal bias, David, and you're a bad person. Here's one example. I received like a half a dozen of these

in the last few weeks, and the gist is the same for all of them. This is just one example. So someone who on Reddit goes by the name Sinker posts, guys, David and Elon, what's up with David totally avoiding the Elon news? He's barely touched on it. I know he drives a Tesla, but that can't be why he's dodging this insight. Sorry if it's been asked. So two components. OK, the first component is I've been ignoring the story of Elon Musk buying Twitter and genuinely behaving like a moron. And part two is that it's because I drive a Tesla or I'm an investor in Tesla. So let's take the questions in two parts. First, have I been ignoring it? No, I have not.

In November alone, we have seven YouTube videos either directly or indirectly about Elon Musk and Twitter. One of those is Tucker talking about an Elon Musk conspiracy theory. This includes a story yesterday on Elon Musk unbanning Trump from Twitter. We've covered it on the bonus show endless additional times since the beginning of Elon Musk looking at buying Twitter. Dozens and dozens of stories. The stories don't do super well. I consider that a signal that my audience isn't that interested in it. But there has been plenty of coverage. That's number one. Secondly, and this is really the part that I want to address, is the idea that I'm not

covering it or I am covering it in a particular way because I drive a Tesla or I'm a Tesla investor. We saw another version of this with stuff with the Israeli Palestinian conflict. I'm not covering it because I'm Jewish. And then it's well, I covered it in a certain way because I'm Jewish and then I'm covering it a lot because I'm Jewish and then I'm covering it a lot because I'm Jewish. OK, first of all, this entire Tesla thing is silly. But more importantly, I'm no huge Tesla fan. And in fact, I would gladly stop being a Tesla driver if I could get out of my Tesla lease without it costing me money. So let me give you the full story and maybe we can put this to bed. I bought Tesla stock in 2015. That's almost eight years ago. As of last week, I've now sold the vast majority of the stock.

I plan to sell all of it. I want to wait until January 1st to sell what's left because I want to spread out the capital gains that I'm going to owe and not owe a whole bunch of taxes all at once. Now, if by the way, the stock is tanking, if it keeps losing value between now and when I sell in early January, I might not even owe taxes because I'll have, you know, my gains will have evaporated. That's number one. I bought the stock not because of being some Elon Musk fanboy, but because I believed that Tesla as a first mover into longer range electric vehicles was going to do well as a company. The stock did do well, but I also knew, including from driving the car myself, Tesla's big advantage is being the first mover on the charging network

and on the on the range. The build quality of Tesla vehicles isn't that great. It's not that great. And I can tell you as someone who has a Tesla right now, I've driven in BMW electric vehicles, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche. They are way better cars than Tesla. I've ridden in a friend's Hyundai Ioniq five. OK, it's a little bit of a lower priced car, but it's still these companies have been building cars for, in some cases, 100 years. They are way better built vehicles. I believe that the first mover advantage for Tesla is clearly diminishing. And as that happens, it's less of an interesting company. So I'm going to be getting out.

Great that Tesla was a first mover and push things forward. I think its prospects in the future are not nearly as bright now in terms of my lease and being a Tesla driver. I would bail on it today, but I would have to pay a lease early termination fee. It's like a bunch of payments. Doesn't matter. It would be forty five hundred dollars. If I want to turn in my lease today, I can do it.

But it's forty five hundred dollars wasting forty five hundred dollars because I think Elon Musk is clearly now a knucklehead. Doesn't seem super logical. If you people who are angry with me about the car want to pay for the early termination fee, I will gladly turn in the car, turn in the keys. There are no keys and film myself doing it. OK, and then we'll turn it into content and I'll get a different car. The only reason I still drive a Tesla today is I have a lease. And unless I want to pay, I have to keep the car to the end of the lease. Lastly, Elon Musk. I believe Elon Musk has fallen into the reactionary libertarian black hole.

I think it's a very dumb black hole that many have fallen into. I think his purchase of Twitter is bad for social media and it's bad for Twitter. I also recognize he's had successful businesses and people in the past who have bet against his businesses came out on the wrong sides of many of those bets. I don't find him super interesting as an individual. That's the full story. There's no hidden agenda. I'm not avoiding talking about Twitter or Elon Musk or Tesla. There's no secret Tesla driver silence or allegiance or any of it. So please, folks, let's drop it. We have a voicemail number. That number is two one nine two. David P.

Here is a furious Trump is caller who sounds like she really wants to speak to the manager. Who do you think you are? You know, you pompous ass calling MAGA people mentally ill. You know, that's a real stretch. You know, you got to get off this stuff. Who do you think you are? Nobody. Yeah. So, again, listen, I have never said. All MAGA people are mentally ill, but I've interviewed enough of them and our correspondents have interviewed enough of them to know that some of these MAGA people are mentally ill and the manifestation is an obsession with Trump and Trump paraphernalia and Trump gear. Others just are ignorant about politics. Others are selfish and greedy, and they identified that Trump policies would be good for them. It's a combination. Who am I? I'm

just like you. You have an opinion and I have an opinion and we express the opinions. It just might be that more people are listening to my opinion than yours. But who am I? I'm just a guy. That's it. We have a great voice great bonus show for you today. Has the world made progress on climate change? Like all of the years now of rallies and marches and provisions and agreements? Have we made what we can call progress on climate change? We will discuss based on a new report. Secondly, New Zealand is going to vote on whether to lower the voting age to 16. What do we think of it? I will tell you. And we will talk about the rising cost of Thanksgiving. And I will again advocate for ditching the turkey

and doing two or three beautiful chickens potentially spatchcocked. I know. I know. I will address that on the bonus show. Sign up at join Pakman dot com. Don't miss it. Coupon code 24 starts now gets you a discount.