The David Pakman Show - 1/18/24: Trump blood-covered hand raises questions as NH primary days away

Episode Date: January 18, 2024

-- On the Show: -- Glenn Loury, Professor of Economics at Brown University and author of the forthcoming memoir "Late Admissions: Confessions of a Black Conservative," joins David to discuss his views on crime, incarceration, culture, the 2024 election, and more. Get the book: https://amzn.to/47Ecraz -- Kentucky Republican Nick Wilson introduces a bill to make sex with one's cousins legal -- Judge Lewis Kaplan threatens to throw Donald Trump out of the courtroom for his outbursts during his defamation trial involving E. Jean Carroll, and Trump says he would love that -- Alina Habba, Donald Trump's lawyer, gets completely humiliated in court, and Donald Trump himself subsequently melts down outside the courtroom -- Questions about medical conditions including syphilis explode after Donald Trump's right hand is covered in blood as he enters court -- A visibly disoriented Donald Trump brags about "acing" a cognitive test in which you identify animals in front of a mildly interested crowd in Portsmouth, New Hampshire -- Confused rallygoers in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, remind us why MAGA is so scary -- Voicemail caller absolutely crushes David, daring him to play even a single one of his voicemails on the show, which David does today -- On the Bonus Show: Republican debate canceled after Nikki Haley says she won't go if Trump doesn't, conservative website's "racist" Ramaswamy joke sparks backlash, Sam Altman predicts AI will soon get "uncomfortable," much more... 🧻 Reel Paper: Code PAKMAN for 30% OFF + free shipping at https://reelpaper.com/pakman 👩‍❤️‍👨 Try the Paired App FREE for 7 days and get 25% OFF at https://paired.com/pakman 🥄 Use code PAKMAN for $5 off Magic Spoon at https://magicspoon.com/pakman 🪒 Henson Shaving: Use code PAKMAN for FREE blades at https://hensonshaving.com/pakman 💪 Athletic Greens is offering FREE year-supply of Vitamin D at https://athleticgreens.com/pakman -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

Speaker 1 We start today with a stunning reminder of the sorts of issues that are priorities for a Republican Party that is in shambles. Sex with your first cousin. This is not a joke. Ladies and gentlemen, a Kentucky Republican has proposed a bill which would legalize sex with your first cousin with whom one shares one eighth of their DNA. Newsweek reports a Kentucky Republican introduced legislation that would amend the state's law. We need to change the law. So a person who had sex with their first cousin would no longer be criminally liable for incest before withdrawing it and claiming an error was made during the drafting process. This is House Bill 269, which state representative Nick Wilson sponsored. According to the Kentucky General Assembly

website, it would have struck, quote, first cousin from the list of familial relationships defined as unlawful incest in the state. In a statement sent to Newsweek, Wilson described it as a, quote, mistake. I don't know what that means in a wider bill intended to extend legal protection against incest, which he withdrew and refiled, leaving the first cousin reference in place. This is all strange enough. Even stranger is that this guy, Nick Wilson, won the 37th season of the CBS reality show Survivor in 2018. You know, make make of this what you will. He later ran unopposed for the 82nd district of the Kentucky House after Republican incumbent Regina Huff retired. Now, there are people who say you really shouldn't have laws against incest. In other words, we should explain to people why this is a bad idea. First cousins share an eighth of their DNA. How could it uh, this is something that needs to be legislated.

There are those who take that sort of more libertarian view. The problem often becomes, well, if you start, if you don't put any restrictions, then all of a sudden it lends itself to predatory situations. If you imagine relationships closer than first cousin. And then as soon as you say, well, OK, we need some restrictions, then it becomes a question of, well, where do we draw the line? Do we draw it at first cousin? Do we draw it at second cousin? What do we do? And in addition, there is the incredible contrast where you have those who believe that two men getting married or two women getting married is very, very bad. But then on the same at the same time, seem to have no problem with first cousin marriage,

as is the case in a number of different states. The takeaway for me, I mean, listen, I'd love to know what how you make this mistake, right? Well, I filed a bill and I just mistakenly put in that first cousins should be able to have sex. But that was an error. Now I've corrected the error. That's all very, very strange. But bigger picture, we continue to see a world in which completely absent any meaningful and substantive economic proposals, absent any meaningful improvements to our health care system with nothing to say about foreign policy or local economic policy. This is a state rep after all, absent anything substantive or meaningful or useful that's going to improve the lives of people. We have a Republican Party that at the federal,

state and municipal level has become obsessed with how many genders are there? Who gets to participate in which sports league? What about litter boxes in schools? Should you or should you not be able to legally have sex with your first cousin, which list of books should be available in a library versus in a lesson plan for a 10 versus a 16 year old. This is all that there is left. And remember, this is a movement that at one point described itself as conservative when that had some kind of meaning. Here's an economic worldview that we describe as conservative.

And this is what they push for. Here is what it means when it comes to foreign policy to be conservative. No one is talking about that anymore. And you need only look at the recent Republican primary debates to see that no substantive economic discussion when it comes to foreign policy, it's posturing and just criticizing Joe Biden without, you know, occasionally you would hear like Vivek Ramaswamy lay out at least a view, not necessarily one we agreed with, but at least it was a view informed in history and some knowledge of the way the last hundred years have worked, but essentially none of

it. And instead it's the contrived social issues and this sort of nonsense. So Nick Wilson chalking this up to a mistake, what that means, I really don't know, but it is emblematic of what this Republican party has become. A judge, judge Lewis Kaplan threatened, failed former President Donald Trump with throwing him out of the courtroom as his attorney continued to embarrass herself day after day. We'll talk about that later. And Trump in the midst of this attacking E. Jean Carroll, the plaintiff on Truth Social, a humiliating 24 hours in Trump legal world. Let's take it from the top. Judge threatens to kick Trump out of E. Jean Carroll defamation trial if he disrupts court.

Trump told the judge he would love it. He would love it if he threw him out of the courtroom. The federal judge presiding over Trump's defamation trial yesterday warned Trump he has the right to throw him out if he continues making audible statements during the proceedings. A quote, Mr. Trump has the right to be present here. That right can be forfeited and it can be forfeited if he is disruptive. Mr. Trump, I hope I don't have to consider excluding you from the trial. I understand you are probably very eager for me to do that. Kaplan said Trump responded while waving his hands.

I would love it. I would love it. And Kaplan says, I know you would because you just can't control yourself in this circumstance to which Trump responded. You can't either. You can't either going with the I know you are. But what am I retort of sandboxes and playgrounds around the world? He always has to have the last word like a petulant child. And Trump wants an excuse to be a victim.

That's at the end of the day what he wants here. That's what he means by he would love it. And Trump going right on Truth Social Central and attacking E. Jean Carroll while this defamation trial was going on. Trump posting, quote, Now that E. Jean Carroll has admitted to illegally deleting and destroying mountains of evidence, as well as it seems unlawfully owning a gun and buying ammunition. If Judge Lewis Kaplan does the right and patriotic thing, he will immediately dismiss the current election interfering witch hunt trial and reverse the unfair and biased result in the

first sham trial, which was forced upon a very popular and successful president of the United States of America. Me the crooked Joe Biden directed conspiracy of hoaxes and scams is falling apart like a rotten house of cards. Make America great again. And Trump following that up. And again, these very statements may become evidence in the defamation trial. Quote, I've said it once and I'll say it again a thousand times until this ridiculous hoax was revealed to me by the fake news media. I never heard of Eugene Carroll, never had anything to do with her, never would

want to have anything to do with her, never brought her into a locked changing room of a crowded New York City department store directly opposite the checkout booth. And then he goes caps lock and never touched her or in any way would want to touch her. The whole story is a made up and disgusting hoax like the now fully discredited Russia, Russia, Russia hoax and all of the others. This one is also conceived, funded and carried out by Democrat operatives like her lawyer, who I just beat in another scam case. OK, he goes on to attack people. Um, remember that it has already been determined that Donald Trump did defame EG and Carol and, uh, did sexually assault her. In fact,

the judge saying he is civilly liable for raping EG and Carol, this very post, this very message may subsequently become further evidence of defamation. After the break. I will tell you about some of the exchanges between Trump's lawyer, Alina Haba, during with others during the trial. And it really makes you wonder where on earth does Trump find these people? We'll take a quick break and then we'll pick that up. Thirty million trees are destroyed every year for toilet paper in the US alone. So toilet paper is a big contributor to deforestation and climate change. Our sponsor, Real Paper, makes toilet paper from bamboo. Bamboo plants keep growing, which means no deforestation. Bamboo also absorbs five times

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Five major humiliations, blunders, problems for Alina Haba in court. There's a Newsweek article that enumerates them. First and foremost, she failed to properly introduce evidence. And Judge Kaplan explained to her, you can't read from documents that aren't in evidence and then told her she seemed to need a refresher about how to introduce evidence. This is the problem when you have TV lawyers working for you in court. It often backfires. Number two, she was told that to speak to the judge, you stand up in his courtroom. She was then told to sit down when he determined that the period for arguments was over. She just remained standing and remained arguing. And she was told to sit down by the judge. Judge Kaplan elsewhere said that they are going to do it his way in the courtroom, not the way Alina Haba wants to do it. And that's all that there is to

it. And then lastly, Judge Kaplan had to explain to Hba, it has already been determined that Trump sexually abused E. Jean Carroll. You can't now argue that they did not. You can't argue that he did not. You can't argue as a defense that that didn't take place because that has already been found as part of this trial. Five different times and in five different ways, Alina Haba was completely and totally humiliated. I'm going to put up a little bit of a transcript on the screen for you here. This is Alina Haba not understanding what hearsay is. This is during direct examination of E. Jean Carroll. There was a question to E. Jean Carroll. Do you remember when you wrote those? And E. Jean Carroll says yes. In 1996 on a dog in heat and Mr. Right right now is 2003. How did those books do? Both of those books are still earning royalties and they also look dated to me.

What's the name of the last book you wrote, Ms. Carroll? What do we need men for? And why did you give the book that title? And E. Jean Carol says, because for 25 years I was writing the ask E. Jean column and women had been writing into me complaining about men when I knew they really loved men. So that was a really confusing thing. At this point, Alina Haba objects. She says, objection, your honor. Here say speculation. She's talking about what women believed that wrote into her, which is, of course, ridiculous. E. Jean Carroll was asked, why did you write it? She's not testifying to the truth of what the women said. She just think this is what I heard

from Pete from women. Doesn't matter whether what the women said was true or not. The court explains, first of all, when you speak in this courtroom or any other courtroom in this building, you'll stand up. Alina Haba says, sure. The court says it certainly isn't hearsay. What else did you say? And Alina Haba says she's stating what they really felt speculation. And the court says, well, that's not offered for the truth of the matter. Is it, Ms. Kaplan? To which Ms. Kaplan says it is not judge. And the court says, all right. The question was, why did she give the book the title? She's entitled to explain that. Alina Habba says, sure. It is stunning that a lawyer who is trying

cases doesn't realize that it isn't hearsay. Now, it would be a different situation, for example, if there was a factual matter related to whether women who wrote to E. Jean Carroll genuinely felt that they didn't need men. Right. Then we would be talking about the factual basis of it. And then you might have a hearsay objection. But E. Jean Carroll is just saying, I titled the book in this way because of the things women wrote to me, whether the women writing to her genuinely felt a particular way isn't actually relevant here. Total and complete humiliation again for Alina Haba. So then Trump comes out and he's just furious and he says, I've been damaged. They should be giving me money.

The big take today was that she deleted and destroyed massive amounts of evidence. And we think that the both trials should be thrown out because it's ridiculous. I don't know. Throw all of it out. He's already been found to have defamed her and to be civilly liable for sexual assault. And he's like, I just throw the entire thing out. Speaker 5 They should be thrown out. And I frankly am the one that suffered damages. I should be given money, given damages. There you go.

And that's where that is. And with that being said, I'm heading out to New Hampshire. Thank you very much for being back. Speaker 1 Can you imagine Trump has think think of the sick nature of this. to New Hampshire. Thank you very much for being back. Can you imagine Trump has think think of the sick nature of this. Trump has fans who cheer for him outside court proceedings in which he's been determined to be a civilly liable rapist and they show up and they cheer for the guy. It's a sick world out there.

And the next question is, is Trump actually sick with something? This is a wild story. Let's discuss that next. Donald Trump's hands were covered in blood or bloody blisters yesterday when he entered a courtroom in New York. Take a look at this image wherein you can see Trump's hands bloodied in multiple places, visibly bloody marks. Are they blisters? Is it just blood? Is it a cut? This is really strange stuff. Now, immediately, speculation went to syphilis, secondary syphilis. In fact, syphilis can cause skin manifestations, including exactly these types of blisters or bloody lesions. Now, syphilis is a sexually transmitted infection. It's caused by a bacteria. It has different stages in the second stage, the secondary stage of syphilis, you can get these skin rashes and

they can be anywhere on the body, including the hands. Sometimes they come with sores, sometimes open wounds. And you can also get with that fever, swollen lymph nodes, a sore throat, patchy hair loss, weight loss. There is speculation that Trump has indeed lost a bunch of weight. The rash, quite frankly, it can look exactly like this. It is treatable with antibiotics, often penicillin, depending on whether one is allergic to penicillin. The earlier you treat it, the better. And immediately speculation. And we're being clear that this is speculation going to syphilis. Now there are many other possibilities here. Could Trump have had a nosebleed right before being photographed, wiped it with his hand?

I guess didn't know he had blood all over his hand and then is waving to people. Sure. Is it possible that it's the result of a physical injury of some kind? Maybe. It is interesting that when Trump left the courtroom, you could still see traces of it, but it was mostly gone. Was it wiped off? We just don't know. Is it eczema? Is it psoriasis? Is it a burn? Is it a blood disorder? Was it frostbite? Is it an allergic reaction to some kind? Did Trump burn his hands carrying those pizzas in Iowa a couple of days ago? It is unclear what this is, but it is absolutely and completely bizarre. Will we get an answer? It's not completely clear. Is this indicative of some kind of more serious illness or problem?

Genuinely don't know, but it is being looked at extraordinarily closely. If you have an opinion about what this is, by all means, please let me know in the comments and also let me know in the comments. Will we ever definitively find out what is going on with this? One of the longest running David Pakman show sponsors is Magic Spoon Cereal. They have been with us for years, and it's only because my audience loves Magic Spoon. The David Pakman Show is a production of the David Pakman Show. and only four to five net carbs per serving. It is keto friendly. It is grain free. And you can relive the moments of watching your favorite cartoons without the guilt and the sugar. My favorite flavor is maple waffle. So nostalgic. But it also comes in great flavors like cocoa, fruity, frosted peanut butter, blueberry muffin. Also check out magic spoon treats, which are the perfect on the go snack.

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I've had such trouble finding a great razor where I am not cutting myself or getting those nicks on my skin, which are so common with the cheap disposable razors. You have to meet our sponsor, Henson Shaving. Henson actually manufactures parts for the International Space Station and the Mars Rover, and they are bringing that exact same precision engineering to the shaving experience. It hurts when you shave because blades extend too far and thus they wobble slightly. But with their aerospace grade CNC machines, Henson is able to make metal razors that extend just zero point zero zero one three inches. That's less than the thickness of a human hair, which means a secure, stable blade with a vibration free shave. It also has built in

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Speaker 2 Thanks, David. I'm very happy to be here. You know, I am not an expert in many of the issues where I've seen you weigh in over the last years. But nevertheless, I'm interested in learning more about your your perspective and hopefully the audience is able to do that as well. I've seen you often comment about the cultural and family issues that you believe affect the status of black Americans. I've seen you make that commentary with with great interest. that the modern left proposes, reducing sentences, decriminalizing drugs, intentionally reducing the prison population, dealing with pretrial detention, which makes it more difficult to mount a good defense and separates people from families.

It seems to me as a non expert that some of the policies being put forward by the modern left might help deal with or ameliorate some of the issues you're concerned with that I genuinely believe you're concerned with. Why not? Where am I misunderstanding what those policies might do? What are the policies that you have in mind of the modern left that would ameliorate the concerns I have about family structure and behavior in black communities? Well, many of the ones I mentioned would do more to keep families together, which seems to be one of the concerns that you have as a cause of some of the problems. So again, the decriminalization of drugs,

which is disproportionately used in certain parts of the country in order to imprison people, reducing sentences, dealing with pretrial detention, which keeps people sometimes for months or years in the state of limbo in jails, unable to really mount a defense and putting them into the justice system. these sorts of things. Again, they seem and if I'm just wrong, I want to hear from you. They seem like they may help keep families together, which is something you're an advocate of. Yeah, I'm not persuaded by that. OK. In fact, I think the reason that you're having so much involvement in the criminal justice system in

certain parts of society is because families are not together. I think the arrow points in the other direction. Rather than the arrow pointing from criminal justice policy, pretrial detention, or whatever, to connection between parent and child, between man and woman, rather than the arrow pointing in that direction, it points in the other direction. It's the failures of family that have led to the failures of socialization of young people that have led to the behaviors that end up getting them into trouble with the law. So you see a different causality. I don't think so. I'm sorry. I beg your pardon. You see a different causal direction in terms of this.

Yeah. I mean, I thought you were going to say, didn't the generous welfare policies, didn't the cultural change away from affirming family, religion, and conservative old school values contribute to the problems in the cities? But, you know, that's what I think. I think we just celebrated Martin Luther King Jr. Day here. He was a Baptist minister. He was an old school Christian, as well as a profound critic of the racial hierarchy order. But he had a commitment to a certain set of values. And that's where I think the buck stops, not with how cops chase

robbers, but would rather how people define what is the meaning of their lives and what is a right way of living. Given where we are today, I'm curious about what set of policies or prescriptions do you think would be useful if If you had your say, what would someone with your perspective say? Here are the interventions I think we need. And at what level do we need them to resolve the issues you've been you've been sort of signaling? I think we need leadership and I think we need vision. I'm not so I'm not so fixed on policies. I don't think the government is the answer. Let me put it that way. I don't think politics is the answer. So it's not as if I don't have policies, but I mean, I don't have anything new to put on the

table. General principles, I would say, empower people at the closest to the grassroots and local level that you can. Give them choices. Yes, give them resources. So it's not as if I'm, you know, just let everybody take care of themselves kind of guy. But give them choices. So, for example, in education, which, of course, is bedrock, I would expand the capacities for people to be involved in securing for their children

the benefits of a decent education. I wouldn't subcontract that to a union. Would you subcontract it to... The kids do not belong to the employees of the state certainly would you subcontract to a religious private school that would be a person's choice i wouldn't rule it out i wouldn't subcontract it as an act of policy to endorse the religious conviction but people will find their way to various sources of authority and meaning in their lives. And religion will certainly be one of the things that they will

choose as they do that. But I want to go back to this law enforcement thing. Yeah. You don't like I detect pretrial detention and all of that. And I'm not advocating. It's not that I don't like it, but it's not that I don't like it. But I don't know that my view is quite so relevant. I think in some cases it's applied unfairly relative to the accused crime and it becomes an impediment to actually mounting a better defense in the first place. But but it's not that I, quote, don't like it. Okay, fair enough. And I take that back. What I just want to say is, I think managing the problem of public safety in urban areas is difficult, not easy. Right. And I think there are trade-offs. I agree that the rights of a person who's not been convicted of anything are tread upon when they're detained for want of being able to post a bond or something like that.

Yes. And that's an issue. I agree with that's an issue. But what is also an issue is when someone commits a crime, they commit a crime. They are allowed to walk on the streets after having been apprehended for committing a crime, and then they commit another crime. Now, the system has to respond to the public's demand that that not happen. So if you're the decision maker and you get rid of pretrial detention, you're literally taking people's lives into your hands on behalf of this ideal of, you know, the rights of the person who's accused. I just say it's a hard problem. That's all I'm saying. I think the call would be a difficult call. Yeah, I don't disagree with that. You mentioned that this is to a great degree about vision and leadership and less about policy and politics.

Do you see any specific individuals that you believe have the vision and leadership for the approach that you want to see? Oh, gosh, I'm not going to name a politician. I'm not going to say something like Barack Obama. Well, the question is, is anyone offering something? I mean, so if it's not about politics and it's about vision and leadership, I mean, is there is there anything you point to where you say, I think this is this is the right direction. This person has what what it would take, for example. I can think of some of my heroes. Robert Woodson is one of my heroes. He's a conservative African

American activist based in Washington, D.C., who promotes grassroots empowerment of people along a number of different dimensions. He's been around for a long time. You can look him up, the Woodson Center. Ernesto Cortez is another one of my heroes. Ernie Cortez is based in Texas and California. He's running the Southwest Industrial Areas Foundation, which is an organizing group in the spirit of Saul Alinsky. And, you know, he's a man of the left and he's committed to a kind of social vision that I wouldn't necessarily endorse myself. I'm a little bit more conservative, but I've interacted with his organization. And I can tell you that they are doing good work on the ground in communities throughout the Southwest of the country. And I appreciate it. I was once in a hotel ballroom in San Antonio where his organizers are trying to pressure local politicians and local employers

to get the community college curriculum coordinated so that the people who went there and took these courses could then be certified to take on high paying jobs in the companies. There were 500 people in this ballroom at this gathering with the politicians sitting at a panel up in front. All of them had the same t-shirt on, which was advertising their movement. He had organized these people to be a force, to be able to get the attention. I mean, I just love that. And that's just one example of what Ernie Cortez does. He's one of my heroes. Ian Rowe. Ian Rowe is an African-American charter school entrepreneur in Brooklyn, the Bronx, low-income kids of color. He's got a baccalaureate high

school curriculum that he stood up, and he's hundreds of kids going, and they're getting a really good education. He got his senior class of kids audience with Justice Clarence Thomas recently at the Supreme Court. Just what a wonderful field trip for these kids. Anyway, so, OK, that didn't add up to a political program, but those are people whose work I admire. Yeah. You mentioned Clarence Thomas. I mean, since you mentioned it, I guess I'll ask your your friendship with Clarence Thomas is a is a known entity. I haven't been able to find you say anything saying anything too definitive about some of the allegations about the gifts from Harlan Crowe and the loan that was forgiven for the RV without disclosure.

Do you think he did anything unethical at this point based on the allegations that are out there? No, I don't think he did anything unethical. I'll just say that baldly. Nothing that I think it's worth us pausing about. I mean, some I's could have been better dotted and some T's better crossed. I'm not saying that there is absolutely nothing to criticize in the way that Justice Thomas has handled this issue. But he is not a corrupt man. I didn't use that word yet. He's a long way from being rich. A lot of people in politics are multi-multi-millionaires. He's not one of them. Did he accept some gifts that he could have reported differently? I mean,

I don't know, frankly, and I'm prepared to say, yes, he might have and he well might have. But listen, this guy has been sitting on the Supreme Court for over three decades. He's a pillar of American law. This nitpicking, oh, he didn't dot this I, he didn't cross this T, as if he were a corrupt man. He is not a corrupt man, as if the diminishment of his person, which is what this is really about, this is an effort to discredit him as a person. He's beneath contempt. This has haunted him from day one of his service to this country. And the reason, ultimately, is he's a conservative. He's a black man who's a conservative. He's dangerous for that reason. And people seek to discredit him. Yes, he's my friend and I'm proud

to call him that. Yeah, we don't have to spend too much time on this. I guess the counterpoint of, you know, you mentioned use the word corrupt twice. I haven't used it at all so far. I just just to be clear, I didn't introduce the word corruption. I think the concern and it seems like a reasonable concern would be if one is at the highest court in the land making decisions that at a very high level affect industries, major industries of all kinds, some of the biggest industries in the country in so many ways. And someone like Harlan Crowe intimately involved in so many of those industries is making gifts and the gifts aren't disclosed. It's reasonable to say it's more than just dotting a T. It goes to questions of, well, what decisions might we see differently had we known that a pillar of industry had made an undisclosed

contribution to one of the nine people making the decision? It seems potentially very relevant. OK, I can't disabuse you of that thought that that's a hypothesis that you're going to entertain was Thomas's performance in law, in the law, influenced by the gratuities that might have come his way because of his relationship with Harlan Crowe or others? I don't think so. But, you know, we're going to have to come to our own conclusions about that. What I want to say, though, is that he's not the only person with rich friends. That's true. There are a lot of people. There are a lot of people with rich friends. Some of them

are sitting in the Oval Office of the United States of America. They're everywhere I look. Politics is, I'm going to use the word corrupt again, in a much more central way. We pay these people a pittance. The people who are serving our government are paid $300,000 or $400,000 a year. I'm sorry for the way it sounds. But in power alley America, that's not a lot of money. That's true. How did Nancy Pelosi get to be Nancy Pelosi with due respect? I don't mean any disrespect in saying that.

I'm saying she's not any different than anybody else in that game. So that's why I say, let's try to keep perspective on this. Yeah, I mean, I think again, Glenn, the reason that that to me is a concern is it sounds like you're sort of saying even if it was wrong, he doesn't make that much money compared to other people. Therefore, it's OK, which if it violates the canons of judges, it violates the canons of judges. I'm not conceding that point at all.

What was wrong that he changed his vote for some gratuity? I don't believe that for a minute. No, no, no. I'm not making that argument. Let me just say this day. Yeah. His principle justification for his jurisprudence has a foundation that's a quarter century old. He didn't just come to the view because somebody passed some bucks to him under the door.

That's what he actually believes. Speaker 1 Yeah, no. And to be clear, my only point was that when you say it's really not that big of a deal, because at the end of the day, these people are underpaid. It sounds like a justification rather than an actual defense of the action. No, I, all I mean to say is if you're, uh, Stephen Breyer retired, uh, justice of the Supreme court, if you're Ruth Bader Ginsburg or somebody like that, and I don that, and I don't mean it. I don't mean any disrespect to these people. You have rich friends. Okay? So that is what I'm talking about. I mean, I'm just saying Justice Thomas is no different in that respect than a large number of people serving at the top of American government who have rich friends.

Yeah, I'm not aware of other Supreme Court justices who, while on the court, received gifts that were supposed to be disclosed, but they didn't. That's a material difference. Will you concede that? Well, I would if I were going to concede supposed to be disclosed. And I understand that that's in dispute. But OK. OK. You know, that's fine. So I want to talk to you a little bit about wokeness and cancel culture. I am not what I think is perceived by some to be part of the woke or cancel culture left.

I am not big on using identity to silence. I am big on on understanding how identity might give an interesting perspective. I as a Jewish person may have experiences of anti-Semitism that someone else doesn't. So it seems relevant to listen to me, but I don't get to use my identity as a cudgel to silence others. That's been my view on the identity politics issue. I'm curious whether you are seeing that the woke cancel culture wing of the left, which I argue is relatively small, but we can talk about that. Has it peaked and things are starting to swing the other way? I'll tell you anecdotally, I'm seeing more and more people with my brand of leftism, which is skeptical of

the cancel everyone speech policing identity politics stuff. I'm glad to see that as someone on the left who doesn't like that. Where do you see that movement right now? Well, I'm actually married to somebody on the left. Her name is LaJuan, LaJuan Lowry, my lovely wife. And she's very much on the left. And she actually shares the sentiment that you just gave voice to about cancel culture. She thinks it's passe. And, you know, she's much more interested in $25 an hour minimum wage or whatever than she is and policing what word somebody is speaking or whatever. So, and if she's not alone, I'm sure that she's not alone. And yeah, I think it's kind of peaked for a number of reasons, you know, but I think the impulse

to censor, the censoriousness, if you will, is about moral superiority. It's about being, you know, better than those people. It's about a way of drawing the line and showing that I'm on the right side of the line. And I think that that's a deep-seated tendency. I don't necessarily see that that's going away. I mean, I was involved in this to a certain degree at Substack, at the platform where my newsletter and whatnot, because there's some Nazi stuff that was small, not very much following, but nevertheless. And the question was, do you step away from Substack because there are a couple of these platforms with these very, you know, noxious and despicable kind of political views, white supremacists or whatever like that. And I thought not, the Substack management had made the decision, not at least at first to step away from the, to ban these sites. And there was pressure to ban the sites. They ultimately relinquished on that, to that pressure. And, you know, so it was an issue, but I always But I thought as it was going on,

I mean, it's not as if, what am I trying to say? It's not as if the Nazism issue is a real issue. And these people are obviously beyond the pale. The dissociation, the need to ban, that felt to me more like a kind of virtue signal, like a kind of engaging anything that's kind of on the ground. It's all about performance. In this context, the last thing I wanted to ask you about is what is your outlook for what the country is facing with the November election? Because you can find every opinion on the spectrum. This is no big deal. No matter who wins, presidents don't have real power all the way to Trump as an authoritarian wannabe who would make an attempt to completely go even further in doing

away with the norms we've previously associated with the presidency. What do you think is at stake 10 months from now? God, I don't know. I'm not an expert, but I'll tell you my foreboding. I think in some way, the future of the country is at stake. And I don't say that in the straightforward way that Trump is threatened if he wins, democracy is over. I think that's a silly argument. I think the question is, will the results of elections be accepted? I don't think that's true if Trump wins, and I don't think it's true if he loses. In other words, people won't accept it either way? Yeah. Here's what I'm saying. There's no outcome of the election that's going to be regarded as legitimate by a large enough proportion of the population to prevent there from being severe threat to the integrity of our institutions. And that's a problem no matter who wins. You're saying even if Trump

has a big win, the left will say he it's not legitimate. Of course, look at all the criminal indictments against him. Look at the hysteria with which his prospect of winning is already being greeted as the end of democracy. But wait a second. I want to make sure I understand what you're saying, Glenn. There are some polls right now, hypothetical polls that say Trump's leading Biden by eight. If the election were today, Biden leads by eight. That would be a huge win for especially for a Republican who

they often lose the popular vote and win electoral. You're saying that's a point in my direction, by the way. Excuse me for interrupting you. Yeah. The fact that the popular vote is almost certain, given New York, California and so forth, to go to Biden is another reason why the emanations that you heard in 2016 would be an earthquake of rumble, of resistance in a protest against an outcome in which Trump would win. Where he to in twenty twenty four. So the so my my total question is me as someone on the left. Right.

I see that in some polls, Trump's leading by six or eight. If November comes and Trump wins by six or eight, which would be a big victory for a Republican and becomes president. I have no reason. It doesn't strike me at all that my reaction would be that that's not legitimate. I would be very disappointed in the American electorate, but it doesn't I don't know anyone who would say that would be illegitimate. The polls are kind of signaling that to some degree. I hope I'm wrong. I'd like to be wrong, but you asked me what I thought. And of course, my fear was we don't get out of the election without there being something low grade civil war.

You know, I don't necessarily mean arms in the streets, but but I mean, at each other's throats. Yeah. You know. Well, I hope that you're wrong. We've been speaking with Glenn Lowry, professor of economics at Brown University. The forthcoming memoir is Late Admissions, Confessions of a Black Conservative. Glenn, I really appreciate your time today. Thank you so much. My pleasure, David. Taking care of your health isn't always easy, but it really should be simple, simple. That's why for years now I've been drinking AG one every day.

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Trump, who is now regularly speaking there almost daily rallies now in New Hampshire as Nikki Haley has surged and has tied Trump there in one recent poll. Trump speaking yesterday in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, visibly disoriented, bragging about acing a test in which he was determined to be cognitively fit because he identified a giraffe and a tiger, a very, very strange speech. And the entire context, of course, continues to be Trump insisting that Biden's demented, but that he is cognitively sharper than ever.

You only need to listen to a couple of these strange rants to realize that is very much not the case. Believe it or not, I don't feel I feel like I'm about 35 years old. I actually feel better now than I did 30 years ago. Tell me, is that crazy? I feel better now. And I think cognitively I'm better than I was 20 years ago. I don't know why I said doctor, you know, Dr. Ronnie, right? Ronnie, you know, Ronnie, Ronnie Jackson. I said, should I take a cognitive test? Because for a while in the way they were saying, this guy is so brilliant, he wants to take

over the world the next day. And that wasn't working. This guy is like unbelievable. The job he's doing, we have to stop him. He's a genius. That was people were shocked at how much of a genius Trump was. Remember that, guys, when the generals thought he was so smart. Then they said, this is one of the dumbest human beings ever.

And that wasn't working. But I didn't like that one as much. I mean, that was bad. So I asked Dr. Ronnie, who is, as you know, the White House doctor for Obama, for Trump. I mean, great doctor. He's also an admiral in the Navy. Highly respected. Well, now he's right.

So he gets off track with Dr. Ronnie Jackson's credentials, but eventually he gets back to it and he brags, listen, guys, I really did ace that dementia test. Perfect score. But but I said, well, I'm going to test. So what's the story? So, well, the problem is, you know, people will find out. And if you do badly, it's not a particularly good thing. You don't want to have some guy get like a disaster. I said, well, is that a hard test? It can be hard. I said, look, I got to take it because I got to

shut it up. And I took it and I aced it. I think it was 35, 30 questions. And let me tell you, you know, they always show you the first one, like a giraffe, a tiger, this or that. Well, which one is the whale? OK. And that goes on for three or four. And then it gets harder and harder and harder. Then it gets really, really hard. At one point, you have to, I believe, draw hands on an analog clock for like 11, 10 a.m. or something like that. And remember, five words also really tough test. And if you're trying to convince people that cognitively you're doing really well, I don't know that you should be delivering word salads like this one. But we're also going to play strong protections to stop banks and regulators from trying to debunk

you from your, you know, your, your political beliefs, what they do. They're going to debunk you from your political beliefs. They want to debunk you and we're going to debunk. Think of this. They want to take away your rights. They want to take away your country. The things you're doing, all electric cars. Give me a break if you want an electric car. But they don't go far. They're very expensive. We are going to debunk.

Think of this electric cars not convincing, not convincing that he knows what is going on. While talking about caucus results, Trump gets sidetracked and starts talking about how he used to drive a Rolls Royce. And again, I get that the pressure is getting to this guy. Ninety one felony counts defamation trial. Nikki Haley now is tied with you in New Hampshire in a recent poll. You've got a bloody hand that people think is syphilis. I get that the pressure is getting to the guy, but maybe that's a reason not to make him president again. Close to seven o'clock. I said, one, one, you just won the Iowa primary. You call it the Iowa caucus. I said, how did I win the caucus? I just got here. You know, the doors were still open to the

army tank that I drive in. You know, we drive in, we have, we have windows that are like this thick. I've never seen anything like I go in an army tank, but we just, I used to drive a Rolls Royce and now I drive in an army tank, but you know, the army tank costs more money than the Rolls Royce. So, you know, cultists stood in line in the bitter cold and snow for hours waiting to hear this. Trump again claiming you need I.D. to buy bread. What have you ever been carded for pumpernickel? Ladies and gentlemen, voting and voter ID, right? Voter ID. You don't have voter ID. Why do the Democrats fight voter ID? They have voter ID. They have ID on everything. You buy a loaf of bread, you have ID, everything to get into a store. But they don't want it for one reason, because they cheat. They want to cheat. I have to tell you, I bought a beautiful sourdough the other day.

They forgot to ID me. It could have been completely inappropriate for someone my age to be buying that bread. And yet they let me walk out of the store with it like it's nothing. And then finally, this disoriented moment where Trump talks about corn. In a really weird way, is continuing to raise questions as to what exactly is going on with Trump's brain that and, you know, we have more liquid gold and wealth under our feet than any other nation. We have more liquid oil, I guess, more liquid gold. Well, I just met non liquid gold. You know where it was? Iowa.

It's called corn. They have it's non-liquid. That's my day. You have more non-liquid gold. They said, what is that? I said, corn. They said, we love that idea. You know, that's pretty cool thought, isn't it? Yeah, that's a nickname in its own way. But we came up with a new word for a new couple of words for corn. There you go. Non-liquid gold as corn should be known the world over from now on. This is not a guy without making any diagnosis or declaration about why Trump is behaving this way, confused, disoriented, losing his train of thought, syphilitic looking blisters on his hand. We don't have to have any diagnosis to know this isn't the guy I want with his with the nuclear coats is the way I would put it. And if you need any reinforcement of the fact that

this is not the guy that we want, you need only see some of the folks that attended this completely bonkers rally. Let's talk about that next. There are often interviews conducted at Donald Trump's rallies, often by the right wing network, right side broadcasting. Last night's rally was in Portmanteau, New Hampshire, Portsmouth, New Hampshire. And there were people who seemed almost confused as to where they even were. The guy speaking was confused and the people listening to Trump were confused. Here's a guy who just stumbles up to the interviewer and explains that what he likes about America is that you can feel into whoever you want. Does anybody know what that means?

What does it mean that you can feel into whoever you want? See if you can explain this. Dear God. Are we on air? Oh, we're on air. Oh, sweet. So I just went around. I talked to everybody. I did this at UNH as well. Actually, you guys were reporting on it. I get everybody in sync as much as possible to do a USA chant as soon as God bless USA is done. What a hero. He loved the USA. Because we're allowed to feel into whoever we want to feel into emotionally gives us freedom in ways other countries cannot. Right. Thanks, man. We'll look forward to that chant. There you go. A patriotic fist bump there. Yeah.

A patriotic moment where this man declares his love of America because you can feel into people. You can feel into people. A woman at this very same Trump rally explained why she's looking forward to the return of President Donald Trump to the Oval Office. And here's her explanation. You know, like he's just I'm looking forward to having some peace and also really America is great.

You know, it's for everybody. She she wants Trump back because America is great. It's for. But I thought we needed Trump to make it great freedom around the world. It isn't just our country. It's everywhere. And you know, we've been missing that the last four years. That's what I love about him. It's for the people. And I love that he doesn't say I, he says we, because it is we, the people he says when we win the white house. Yeah, we're a team and he's fighting for us. I'm going to fight for him. There you go.

And as we know, Trump's unending loyalty to his cult followers has never been questioned. He is just as loyal to them as they are to him. One woman at the Trump rally said she thinks that what Trump needs to hear is that veganism is the path to world peace. I don't know that this is a message Trump wants to hear, to be totally honest. And I was born in Portsmouth. My heritage goes all the way back 400 years. And I have something good to say that the way for peace on earth and we need it with three, four wars going on, is through veganism. Being a vegan, a peaceful dinner plate results in a peaceful world.

There's no way out. You're going to eat blood food. You're going to go have war. It's always been that way. So that's what I got to say. That's what I've said to President Trump when I've met him before. She took the when she met Trump, she explained to Trump the foreign policy will be solved by veganism because if there's peace on your dinner plate, there wouldn't be any wars.

Certainly an interesting message. I don't know that it's one that Donald Trump necessarily is, is a receptive to. And then lastly, again, rally goers raising the trope of we need to run the country like a business. We need the country to be run like a business. Donald Trump's an excellent businessman. And when he was our president, it was run like a business. What I would love to ask these folks, you know, when they would say we need a businessman to be the president. My question always was, what evidence do we have that businessmen make good presidents? A subsequent question is, what evidence do we have that the country should be run like a business? That's not it. You can't assume that you have to demonstrate that. And

it certainly hasn't been demonstrated. You see Trump, you see the followers. It all makes sense in some weird way. The solution is way more of us have to vote than the numbers they vote in. That's the solution. We have a voicemail number. That number is two one nine two. David P. Here is a caller who says I will never air his voicemails because they would be too damaging to me. Here is one of those voicemails. Mr. David Hackman, you know, I've called probably around 15, 20 times. It seems like you never respond to any of my voicemails, especially on YouTube. I would love for you to play them on YouTube because I don't think you could actually respond

to them because well, here we go. I'm playing it. Let's see if I'm able to respond to it, sir. You know that you're disingenuous and most of the things that you say about what's going on today and you're disingenuous about how you have completely flipped. I have not flipped and I hope that if I flipped on anything, he will tell me exactly what I flipped on. Big pharma, pro military industrial complex. You are for both at this point. You're anti-Vivek Ramaswamy. Yeah, I mean, that's not a flip. I don't support Vivek Ramaswamy. He ended his

candidacy. Donald Trump, the individuals that are currently at least, you know, during these rallies, they are actually against what you used to be against. You have completely flipped for whatever reason. Maybe you were threatened. Maybe you were paid off. Maybe you both happened. I would love it if the people who say I've been paid off could tell me who's paying me. That would be interesting.

Absolutely pathetic what has happened to you. You do not seem to ever respond to any of my YouTube, any of my my voicemails on YouTube. I'm watching your current video now about how we get stuck up and Trump. Well, it seems like you are. So do you. Because, you know, it's funny because you're all. All right. Listen, I've played it.

I don't know how compelling people find this stuff. I will tell you, we have thirty five hundred voicemails that we haven't yet triaged and processed and we play four voicemails a week. So it's not necessarily that I'm so overwhelmed by your intellectual prowess and I'm keeping the voicemails off. It's that we have way more voicemails than we know what to do with. But if that caller destroyed me, then I'll have to take it. Right. Not much I can do about that. I hope he hasn't embarrassed me too badly. We have a great bonus show for you today.

The forthcoming Republican debate has been canceled. Nikki Haley is like, if Trump doesn't go, I'm not going. And so there's really no debate to be had. The debate has been canceled. We are going to talk about the conservative parody websites, racist Vivek joke, which has sparked backlash. And we will talk about how AI may soon get uncomfortable. What do we mean by that? All of those stories and more on today's bonus show. Don't miss it.