The David Pakman Show - 11/9/23: GOP debate falls flat, Trump skips it and still wins

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

-- On the Show: -- Miles Lagoze, US Marine veteran and author of "Whistles from the Graveyard: My Time Behind the Camera on War, Rage, and Restless Youth in Afghanistan," joins David to discuss his time deployed in Afghanistan and much more. Get the book: https://amzn.to/469NrqO -- Republicans hold their final Presidential primary debate before the first votes are cast, and Donald Trump wins despite skipping the debate in favor of an unhinged rally -- Vivek Ramaswamy calls Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley "Dick Cheney in high heels" at the Republican debate -- Nikki Haley calls Vivek Ramaswamy "scum" when he brings up Haley's daughter's use of TikTok -- Vivek Ramaswamy appears to call Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who is Jewish, a "Nazi" -- Vivek Ramaswamy wildly attacks NBC debate moderator Kristen Welker in a final act of desperation to try to save his campaign -- Failed former President Donald Trump counterprograms the Republican debate with an absolutely disastrous rally in Florida -- MAGA is panicking over their election losses earlier this week -- Ivanka Trump testifies in the New York civil fraud trial against Donald Trump's business and claims to know nothing and remember nothing -- Democrats flipped a county in this week's election, Letcher County, Kentucky, which Donald Trump had won by nearly 60 points in 2020 -- Anti-transgender voicemail caller says "Yeah but what about penises in the girls' locker room?" -- On the Bonus Show: US launches airstrike in Syria, Ohio becomes 24th state to legalize marijuana, Supreme Court leans towards upholding law banning those accused of domestic violence from having firearms, much more... 🔊 Babbel: Get 55% off your subscription at https://babbel.com/pakman 🪒 Henson Shaving: Use code PAKMAN for FREE blades at https://hensonshaving.com/pakman 😮 DealDash: Use code PAKMAN for 100 free bids at https://dealdash.com/pakman 💻 Get Private Internet Access for 83% OFF + 4 months free at https://www.piavpn.com/David ⚠️ Try Ground News and get 30% OFF the Vantage plan at https://ground.news/pakman 🩳 SHEATH Underwear: Code PAKMAN for 20% OFF at https://sheathunderwear.com/pakman -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

Speaker 1 Speaker 2 Republicans debating last night for the final time before the voting starts. We didn't know if I'd make it into the show today. You know, the debate was so insane and my live stream was so long. I actually started to lose my voice last night, but it did somewhat recover overnight. And I believe I believe if we all, you know, do the right thing, say the right prayers, whatever, that I will be able to actually deliver today's program. So it's so great to have you here. The big takeaway, you know, if you just want me to bottom line it for you, Trump didn't go to the

debate last night. He did an unhinged, sweaty rally instead, and he won last night's debate. And what I mean by that is nothing happened in last night's debate that is going to substantively or materially change the dynamics of this Republican primary in which Donald Trump is winning easily. So it's sort of like if Trump were to die, who else might Republicans vote for Ron DeSantis? Totally weak. Not a factor. Last night, Vivek Ramaswamy, desperate, desperate. And once you see the polling data, you'll understand why Vivek was so desperate, throwing anything he could at the wall to see what would stick, attacking Nikki Haley's daughter, calling Vladimir Zelensky a Nazi.

He's Jewish, by the way, and ending. I'll play. You know, we could spend the entire hour playing clips from last night. It wouldn't really do any of us any good because it's so inconsequential. But I'll mention a few things notable that in his desperation, Vivek Ramaswamy went full conspiracy theory, raising this idea that there's a Democratic plan to install Michelle Obama as the nominee, despite the fact that she has said, oh, I'm not running for president. Here is Vivek closing out the debate with a wild conspiracy

theory from China. I'll keep us out of World War Three and then revive national pride in this country. I also want to close with one message to the Democrat Party. Yeah. End this farce that Joe Biden is going to be your nominee. We know he's not even the president of the United States. He's a puppet for the managerial class. So have the guts to step up and be honest about who you're actually going to put up so we can have an honest debate. Biden should step aside and his candidacy now so we can see whether it's Newsom or Michelle

Obama or whoever else. All right. Just tell us the truth so we can have an honest debate. Speaker 1 and the crowd. I mean, I guess sort of like liking the conspiracy theory. The most honest participant last night, I don't think will shock you to hear this was Chris Christie. Chris Christie, who has no shot whatsoever. Republican voters don't want sane. They want something else. Apparently 60 percent of them supporting Trump. Here is Chris Christie so accurately pointing out, you know, this whole abortion debate five weeks, six weeks. This is a crazy debate,

especially since we aren't actually behaving in a pro-life way after the baby is born. Very accurate. Listen to Chris Christian. Here's the bigger issue, Kirsten. The bigger issue is, and Tim began to touch on this, we're not pro-life for the whole life. Right. To be pro-life for the whole life means that the life of a 16-year-old drug addict on the floor of the county lockup is precious and we should get treatment for her to restore her life. Correct. The year old who's drug addicted should make sure that any of his children who he's passed that addiction on to are treated well to her life's not just in the womb. Kirsten is for the whole life. All right. The rare valid point made during a Republican debate. It sometimes happens. Broken clocks are sometimes right, depending on the nature of how

they are broken. Here's another Chris Christie moment where he just says, hey, we're going to nominate someone who's going to be in criminal trials the entire campaign. Is anybody paying attention to how insane this is? And tonight we need to decide which president is going to be the one to tackle the big issues, who's going to make this country look once again, not just inward, but look outward at the world and say America is the country, the indispensable nation that makes this a safer world. And in a safer world, American innovation, American hard work has always been the thing that has driven our country to greater things. I'm going to be the president who will do those big things. We're not going to be small.

And I'll say this about Donald Trump. Yeah. Anybody who's going to be spending the next year and a half of their life focusing on keeping themselves out of jail and courtrooms cannot lead this party or this country. It needs to be said plainly. He's right. And yet it does seem as though Republican voters are going to select exactly that a guy who's going to be in and out of

courtrooms and trying to keep himself out of prison for the next year. That's who they plan to make their nominee. Another bizarre moment. This one's very visual. So for people listening, I'll have to describe it. Ron DeSantis still unable to behave like a normal person, grinding his teeth like a lunatic the entire time and also closing out his final statement by sticking his tongue bizarrely between his lips. It's just it's so weird at the end of the day. Listen, look at this. And as your president, I will not let you down. God bless you. Governor Sanders.

Thank you. There it is. Just kind of talk that that tongue just appears there between his teeth. Really, really strange stuff. All right. CNN had a focus group of Republican voters asking them, who do they think won? Here is their opinion of how last night's debate went. My question is, who do you think, quote unquote, again, won the debate?

It's not scientific, but we've been with you three times now. I'm going to do an alphabetical order. Who thinks Christie won the debate? And zero. Who thinks DeSantis won the debate? One two three four. Who thinks Haley won the debate? One two three four, six. Wow. Who

thinks Ramoswamy won the debate? One, two, three. Who thinks Scott won the debate? So Nikki Haley, who's coming second for the first two debates on this crowd in Story County has come in first this time. This this is just a reminder of sort of how disconnected from the true nature of what's happening in the Republican Party. These focus groups are. And if you need greater proof of that, just listen to this. Foreign policy takes center stage. Unlike the Democrats, the topics were seen reasonable and had reasonable consideration. It's like, what's this guy even talking about? What what insane topics are there during which Democratic debates is he even talking about? Nobody knows what this guy's referring to.

Not really a debate, more of just a structured discussion. GOP stands in solidarity in support of Israel. A much more civil debate tonight. Trump won another one because it was now this guy is actually the guy who's right. Trump won another one. He wasn't even there. And what this is all about is this polling data, which we have on the screen. Despite skipping three debates, Donald Trump controls nearly 60 percent of the Republican

polling electorate. Everybody else is dividing up the 40 percent that's left the scraps. And that desperation played a major role in Vivek Ramaswamy's behavior. Let me give you a little bit of a tour of that. Vivek Ramaswamy behavior. Let me give you a little bit of a tour of that. Vivek Ramaswamy is failing. He supposedly was surging like a phoenix over the horizon. And instead, his campaign has crumbled. Every debate, Nikki Haley makes him look incompetent. And after every debate, he loses two or three points. Nikki Haley is polling almost 10%. Vivek is down to four. So Vivek knew he needed to go crazy in his closing statement. He brought up conspiracy theories

in the middle of the debate. Now, I admit this was a funny line, but it's also crazy. He referred to both Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis as Dick Cheney in high heels, which is it's the debate is worthless when we think about do we want these people leading us from a comedic standpoint, tying in the obvious nature of Ron DeSantis wearing lifts as referring to both DeSantis and Haley wearing high heels is actually pretty fun. The fact of the matter is the Republican Party is not that much better. You have the likes of Nikki Haley, who stepped down from her time at the U.N. Bankrupt or in debt is was her. Then she becomes a military contractor. She joins the board of Boeing and otherwise and is now a multimillionaire.

So I think that that's wrong when Republicans do it or Democrats do it. That's the choice we face. Do you want a leader from a different generation is going to put this country first? Or do you want Dick Cheney in three inch heels? I missed it. We've got two of them on stage. In which case, we've got two of them on stage tonight. It's so stupid and simultaneously funny. And remember, the contrast is, meanwhile, Joe Biden is getting so much stuff done that it's

hard to even keep up with it. Right. So these people are all unqualified to be president. But Vivek is attacking Nikki Haley because she has more than double the support he now has. And he's desperate. Now, Nikki Haley conco has more than double the support he now has and he's desperate. Now Nikki Haley concocted her own response to that. And again, Vivek Ramaswamy brings up two people on stage wearing high heels. First, like to say they're five inch heels and I don't wear them unless you can run in them. We got to say is I wear heels are not for a fashion statement. They're for ammunition.

What we need to be doing for Iraq and Syria is, first of all, the idea that our men and women could be targeted and that we've allowed almost 100 hits to happen under Biden's watch is unthinkable. All right. So anyway, there there is Nikki Haley. I mean, I don't know that I even really totally understand her response. But needless to say, Vivek Ramaswamy really debasing himself in actually the next segment. The topic of tick tock came up and Vivek Ramaswamy really, really hitting below the ovaries, I guess we would say. I don't know even what to call it. He brought up Nikki Haley's daughter because Nikki Haley's daughter, I guess, is on TikTok. Nikki Haley's daughter is an adult. And what Nikki Haley's daughter

being on TikTok has to do with what Nikki Haley would do on policy, I can't understand. Vivek Ramaswamy going after Nikki Haley's daughter, Nikki Haley calling Vivek Ramaswamy scum. How do you get to talk band if you use it? Well, I want to laugh at why Nikki Haley didn't answer your question, which is about looking at families in the eye. In the last debate, she made fun of me for actually joining Tick Tock while her own daughter was actually using the app for a long time. So you might want to take care of your family first. Leave my daughter. The next generation of Americans are using it. And that's actually the point. You have her supporters crapping her up. That's fine.

Here's the truth. The easy answer is actually you're just scum. So listen, the idea that they're just going to ban Tick-T TikTok, they're not going to ban TikTok. It's obvious at this point that they're not going to ban TikTok. So I would rather they stop playing coy with that, bringing up. I mean, listen, her daughter is almost as old as Vivek Ramaswamy, not literally, but like, you know, I think she's in her mid to late 20s and Vivek Ramaswamy is 38. It's really irrelevant to policy whether Nikki Haley's daughter was at one point on TikTok and the crowd reacted, showing that this was completely below the belt. It's ridiculous. As usual, Nikki Haley kind of messed up the response. She wanted to say,

keep my daughter's name out of your mouth. She said, keep my daughter out of your voice. It didn't really make sense. It all falls flat. It's all a disaster. But this is just total and complete desperation from Vivek Ramaswamy. And it actually got, if you can imagine, it got even worse. Vivek Ramaswamy called Vladimir Zelensky, the Jewish president of Ukraine, a Nazi comedian in cargo shorts or something along those lines. If anybody here has an explanation for this behavior by Vivek, other than he's desperate because he's losing, I'd love to hear it from you. Take a listen to this. Speaker 1 Ramaswamy, are you persuaded by President Zelensky urgent nuclear? Where do you stand on more funds? Speaker 4

I'm absolutely unpersuaded. And I'm actually enjoying watching the Ukraine hawks quietly, delicately tiptoe back from their position as this thing has unwound into a disaster. The first half of this race, I was the only person standing for it. Now they're actually quietly coming around to being more cautious as they should. Level with the American people here. Ukraine is not a paragon of democracy. This is a country that has banned 11 opposition parties. It has consolidated all media into one

state TV media arm. That's not democratic. It has threatened not to hold elections this year unless the U.S. forks over more money. That is not democratic. It has celebrated a Nazi in its ranks, the comedian in cargo pants, a man called Zelensky, doing it in their own ranks. That is not democratic. More facts for you that you won't hear from the mainstream in its ranks, the comedian in cargo pants, a man called Zelensky, doing it in their own ranks. That is not democratic. More facts for you that you won't hear from the mainstream in either party or the mainstream media. The regions of Ukraine that are occupied by Russia right now, in the Donbass, Luhansk, Donetsk, these are Russian-speaking regions that have not even been part of Ukraine since 2014,

that other people probably couldn't name those provinces for you. Those are the hard facts. And sort of frame this as some kind of battle between good versus evil. Don't buy it. So there is Vivek Ramaswamy, total desperation. And of course, saying that the Jewish president of the mostly non-Jewish country, Ukraine is a Nazi really does not

make a lot of sense. None of this is going to help Vivek Ramaswamy and attacking the moderation team also won't. And that's the last thing I want to look at with you in a completely bizarre non sequitur. Early in the debate, Vivek Ramaswamy attacked moderator Kristen Welker, suggesting that Joe Rogan should be moderating the debate and tries to ask Welker questions. She correctly doesn't take the bait, a desperate attempt to save his failing campaign. Let me turn to you. Please make your case. Why would you why should you be the nominee and not the former president? I think there's something deeper going on in the Republican Party here.

And I am upset about what happened last night. We've become a party of losers at the end of the day. Is it cancer? The Republican establishment? Let's speak the truth. I mean, since Ronald McDaniel took over as chairwoman of the RNC in 2017, we have lost 2018, 2020, 2022, no red wave that never came. We got trounced last night in 2023. And I think that we have to have accountability in our party. For that matter, Ronna, if you want to come on stage tonight, you want to look the GOP voters

in the eye and tell them you resign, I will turn over my yield, my time to you. And frankly, look, the people they're cheering for losing in the Republican Party. Think about who's moderating this debate. This should be Tucker Carlson, Joe Rogan and Elon Musk. What? We'd have 10 times the viewership asking questions that GOP primary voters actually care about and bringing more people into our party. Do you think the Democrats and we've got Kristen Welker here, do you think the Democrats would actually hire Greg Gutfeld to host a Democratic debate? They wouldn't do it. And so the fact of the matter is, I mean, Kristen, I'm going to use this time because it's actually about you in the media and the corrupt media establishment. This entire debate is really about Kristen,

Kristen Welker. Ask you the Trump Russia collusion hoax that you pushed on this network for years. Was that real or was that Hillary Clinton made up disinformation? Answer the question. Go. Mr. This is how we get our country back. We need accountability because this media rigged the 2016 election. They rigged the 2020 election with a hundred Biden laptop story. They're going to rig this election. Your time is up. Accountability.

Let me turn to Governor. Governor. Total and complete desperation. The problems we have in this country are because of because of Christian. Kristen Welker, a disastrous debate, a disastrous debate that will do nothing to change the fact that unless Trump dies, he's running away with this thing. Where was Trump? He was soaking wet at a rally in Florida.

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It is bizarre. It is disturbing. It is indicative of mental illness, as you will shortly see. Roseanne Barr was there. Now, when we talk about Roseanne Barr and mental illness, we're not making fun of mental illness. We're not trying to stigmatize it. We're pointing out there is so much of it and often it is going untreated. And I am going to play a clip for you. That is like nothing I have seen before. There are there's aggressive language here. I want to warn you. This is who introduced a former president of the United States. Prepare yourselves. Aren't we all fed up with the deep state? State Bulls**t! And the Bulls**t, kill that goddamn ball.

The introduction for the former president of the United States, that is what we call quintessential Maga. That's what you just heard. And it wasn't that much less unhinged when Don Jr. took a turn at introducing his failed former president father. Listen to this. Speaker 2 They can loot, riot, steal, murder. But no, in the name of social justice, it's different. It's fine. You know? Yeah. I mean, the Gucci shoes that they stole,

that's that's totally fine. It was for social justice. It's different. It's trying to figure that one out, right? I'm trying. You may do a better job of this than me, sir. But think about that. Think of the people right now in the last couple of months who've been sentenced to 20 years in jail for peacefully protesting. Meanwhile, I'm watching anti-Semites chanting for genocide at some of the finest universities. I say finest in air quotes because at this point, they're full of s**t.

They can do that again. No consequence, nothing. While they mortgage your family's future to the hilt, while they're getting ready to send your children, not theirs, to yet another one of their endless wars. Again, I don't know what war he's referring to, but Don Jr. completely out of control. And then Donald Trump took the stage, soaking wet, glistening like he's been sprayed down with canola oil, just saying things that don't make any sense. In this clip, Donald Trump talks about Kim Jong Un being the leader of one point four

billion people. Which people are those? The press hates when I say they're smart. He said they were smart. Well, what am I supposed to say? They're stupid people. Kim Jong Un leads one point four billion people. And there's no doubt about who the boss is.

And they want me to say he's not an intelligent man. They get very personal when I say that because they're fake news. That's why the press. There you go. And of course, North Korea has a population of 26 million. China does have a population of roughly one point four billion. I guess Trump got his authoritarians confused. Trump then continuing to talk about authoritarians again, mentioning Hungarian

leader Viktor Orban and again, wrongly stating that Hungary borders Ukraine and Russia, which it does not. I was very honored. A very great head of a country. To be clear, it doesn't border Russia. Viktor Orban, hungry, very powerful. He fronts on both Russia and Ukraine, knows them both very well. I told me a lot of things. Great guy. But they asked him about. Yeah, there is no Russia-Hungary

border. It does not exist unless Trump takes a sharpie to another map. It's just not a real thing. Trump then again insisting that it is Joe Biden who indicted him. I did everything right and they indicted me. Right. Listen to this people. We will root out the corruption, bribery and influence selling in our nation's capital. And we will start by exposing every last crime committed by crooked Joe Biden, because now that he indicted me, we're allowed to look at him, but he did real bad things. Now remember, there is still not a shred of evidence that Joe Biden had anything to do with the indictments of Trump.

And after 40 years, however many years Joe Biden has been in public service, they still don't have any evidence that he committed a single crime. Lastly, Trump says it's not true that Biden's too old. Why does Trump say it? Because Trump's basically just as old. But he says Biden is incompetent and that's the problem. A lot of people say that. Why are you running?

Well, he said, I'm a younger version. And it's OK to say, but we want the older version, right? But that's OK to say. And, you know, you got to remember, Biden's not too old. That's not his problem. He's too incompetent. He's not old. So many people.

I know a man that fought all his life to make money and he became a billionaire from 80 to 90. From 80 years old to 90, he made all of his money, became a very rich man, fought his whole life and he became he made all of his money. Some of the greatest leaders in history have been way over 80. Right. Some of the people I know, some of the smartest people, I have one of them here tonight. He's one of the most incredible businessmen in the world. And so the point here is Trump can't say Biden's too old because Trump is essentially just as old. I think they're like 18 months difference in age or something. Maybe maybe two years, something like that. So Trump has to say, actually, we want old people. Old people are great like me. But the problem is Biden is incompetent, plays really well with this crowd.

Whether it'll work with the electorate more broadly remains to be seen. Trump with a disastrous rally in front of sycophants with genuinely crazy people introducing him. That's what he chose to do rather than go to the presidential debate. I have to tell you, I don't think it makes any difference what he does. This guy's going to run away with the nomination. MAGA and Republicans are panicking over Tuesday night's election disaster, and they should be. They absolutely should be. I have a here's a tweet from Charlie Kirk involved with this organization, Turning Point USA. They try to recruit young conservative people on campuses where he tweeted, quote, The postmortem

will happen. Abortion, RNC, RGA, establishment versus base, etc. One thing is immediately clear. We're getting crushed on fundraising. They're actually getting crushed on way more than just fundraising. There's an interesting Newsweek article which talks about a number of MAGA and Republican figures reacting to the Tuesday night defeats and saying, hey, something is really wrong here. Something is really a problem here. They cite Charlie Kirk. They also talk about others. Joshua Perry from Right Side Broadcasting.

Blaming Trump for lost elections is what a primary opponent would do. Why aren't the same people blaming Youngkin for the Virginia Republicans losing the House and not winning the Senate? Fact GOP isn't backing its candidates with the cash to outcompete Democrats. Same goes for abortion. So here's the deal. What should they do in a normal world? We would look at what's going on and we'd say, wow, this party is failing.

This party is losing 2018, 2020, 2022, 2023. What should they do? It's not really for me to help them. But if their electorate was normal, if their voters had normal desires, it would be the same stuff as always that they just won't do. You got to broaden your base. You've got to appeal to suburban people and minorities and young voters. Broaden the base. Focus on policy rather than these contrived social issues. Embrace and deal with issues that voters actually care about.

Improve your ground game. Candidate quality has to improve. They've been putting up ridiculous people address the internal civil war because at the end of the day, Trump was able to win without doing that stuff. But can they continue to win long term without doing those things? That would be the normal advice, except I don't know that that would even help the Republican Party. What do I mean by that?

They seem to be activated by the contrived cultural issues. I don't see a big demand among the rally goers and the people who call into the show saying I want my Republican candidate talking in a deeply nuanced and detailed way about health care policy and about whatever. Normally, we would say you got to engage with real policy instead of contrived cultural issues, but they've lost on policy. So maybe they are doing the best they can do and they're simply doomed to fail. So that's where I'll leave the question with you, given that the normal

things political parties do to win don't seem to actually be useful because the Republican electorate has become so ridiculously cartoonish. What can Republicans do to actually start winning again at the national level? Not that I'm trying to help them, but is there anything they can do? Let me know in a comment right into info at David Pakman dot com. Let me know what you think. Using the Internet without a VPN can open you up to all sorts of issues. Hackers have more access to your data, including your finances. Without a VPN, your activity can be logged and monitored by your Internet service provider, by advertising companies, and then that data can be sold, which means your personal browsing

data is floating around out there. You should use a VPN that helps make you anonymous online. It encrypts your Internet activity. The VPN I've been using for years is private Internet access. Our sponsor, private Internet access, is the VPN that people trust because it's the only Thank you so much, David. private Internet access on unlimited devices with just one account. They have a 30 day money back guarantee, 24 seven customer support. It's a service you can count on. Private Internet access is giving my audience a huge 83 percent discount. You can subscribe for two or three per month and get four extra months for free. Go to PIA VPN dot com slash David. The link is in the podcast notes. So much of the news that we read every day is driven by clickbait headlines, even from

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The link is in the podcast notes. camera on war, rage and restless youth in Afghanistan. Miles, really great having you on. I think maybe just to start with, before we get into your time as a combat photographer, what made you join the Marine Corps to begin with? Were you going in to be a photographer? What was the catalyst that made you want to join? I just felt like a um, a lot of people weren't really paying attention to the war. I didn't want to go to college and have to become a, uh, and get a journalism degree. I saw full metal jacket about 30 times. And I saw that the

main character was a, uh, combat correspondent, which is what my job was in the Marines. And so I thought if I can if I join the Marines at 18 straight out of high school, they'll give me a camera and send me to war and I can I can document the war. When you at the time thought about Afghanistan and the theater and being there, what was your understanding of the sort of political interpretation of what was going on or did you have one? Does it does it even matter when you're in the role you were in? It doesn't matter when you're institutionalized.

Once you go through the basic training, the boot camp, they're just training you. They're brainwashing you to kill and to not to have more fear of being a outlier, like an individual who's not doing what he's supposed to be doing. That outweighs the fear of death. So you're more afraid of letting your your squad down than you are of dying. And that's how they, it's, it's, it's basically been like that, a kind of Stanford prison experiment, uh, that's been ongoing for, uh, I think since the dawn of war, maybe. Um, but, uh, no, the politics didn't matter. We, a lot of kids, especially in the infantry, just wanted to shoot their guns, blow stuff up, kill people. I knew guys that joined who said that they just wanted to kill people and get away with it. So you do have kind of psychotic, psychopathic kids like

that in the Marines, especially the Marine Corps infantry. What percentage of the Marine Corps infantry do you think fit that category? I couldn't give you the percentage, but, um, it's all group thing too. So it's hard to, it's hard to, you know, distinguish what's just being said because somebody else said it and what's being said because they actually feel it. But I'd say. A good 60 percent were not.

Had you know. No intention of helping the Afghan people. Right. They just wanted to go experience war. Officially, what's the point of a combat photographer? What what why is that something that the Marine Corps would want? That's a good question. I still don't know, really.

Basically it was to sell the war to people back home. The idea that we were going to hand over the war to the Afghan army and they would be able to, taking the lead, et cetera. At the same time, they were totally, all of us were incompetent, but they were especially not trained and not prepared. And oftentimes we were used as like dummy shields, kind of. You know, if we were to go into a house or clear house, the guys would put them in first in case there was a bomb, in case there was an IED, that kind of stuff. They were high most of the time. High on what? So you have poppy everywhere, so you have hashish, opium, marijuana,

et cetera. We're how specifically were you told what you should be documenting? Parts of mine that I mean, that was that was a specific like specifically that was the motto besides getting imagery of the afghan army you know working um it was hearts and minds giving giving kids candy you know that pete budaj photo of the the Afghan kid on his shoulders, that type of thing, they would just eat up. They loved that stuff. They didn't want, could not show Marines cursing, couldn't show them smoking cigarettes,

and you couldn't show anyone dying or dead, which are three things that Marines do quite frequently in war. So it was hard. It was hard to edit around all that. How frequently were you getting feedback from whoever about what it was that you were sending back and changes you should make or whatever? Not not frequently. No, I was. So people think the military is this very organized, well, you know, well-tuned machine that's kind of aware of everything.

But it's incompetent, just like any kind of business or government organization. So I was I was free solo, like I was just bouncing around I was moving around our area of operations and there was no internet so there was no one to contact me there was no electricity so we relied on generators

to power our cameras and yeah that was pretty much it it wasn't until I filmed the Marine getting shot in the head and dying that I started getting a lot of emails from my commanding off my combat camera, a commanding officer saying basically, you have to you know, you have to get rid of that. You have to cut out every scene. Right. Of yeah. So in Combat Obscura, you really which is a documentary, by the way, that really I call it sort of like immersive in what it is that combat photographers are doing and we're doing. One of the things about it is that there is no shortage of I mean,

I don't know what to call it. I don't know if the right word is inappropriate behavior or misconduct or stuff that you're not really supposed to be filming or promoting or whatever the case may be. Can you talk a little bit about did you have some kind of an awakening or a point at which your views on what was going on in your role did a one 80? Was there a definitive point at which something like that happened or was it a process? Uh, it was a process. Uh, so when I, um, when I was filming those things, uh, you know, Marine smoking hash or acting, um, on rule, you know, marine smoking hash or acting on, you know, war crimes and treating the Afghans as if they were props in a stage or something. I found those things to be funny because I was part of that institution.

I was still institutionalized. It wasn't until I got out and went to college and, um, started to feel some kind of moral guilt for what I had just taken part in. Cause the camera, not only the camera fuels their behavior, you know, it's not, it's not like I was just a fly on the wall. I was actually, I was, I mean, I was actively, you know, promoting this behavior with the camera. So there was like a performative element to it. I mean, they would, I was actively, you know, promoting this behavior with the camera. So there was like a performative element to it. Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely. Uh, there is an every word I think, I think, but the feedback loop, uh, feedback loop of, uh, you know, imagery and, and war movies and, and, and all that. But um, it wasn't until I, uh, went to college and stopped trying to meet people's expectations of what the war was like, how soldiers behave in war, and really including everything, even the bad stuff, that it became very cathartic. And that wasn't until I'd been out for a few years. Was there or let me see how to ask this. What would surprise my viewers the most about the life of military personnel while they were serving in Afghanistan that that is maybe just not known?

Like what would be the most even if it's a mundane thing or not, what would be most surprising? So I guess the most surprising thing would be the fact that we were living in on the front lines, if you call it a front line. We were living. We would pay a family to leave their mud hut, their house. And we were living with the people in their houses. And I don't think that's seen, I don't think that's understood a lot. I think usually in most movies, they're on a base. But we were actually in, we were in their houses and we would basically

just patrol around waiting to get shot or blown up. And we saw everybody as the enemy. You know, even the people you were living with. Yeah. Even even even the Afghan army. The Afghan army itself was seen as an enemy. Yeah. Why is that? Well, sometimes they would, you know, join the Taliban. You know, it was all it was all gray. It was you couldn't really tell what the hell was going on. and um it was a mess it was just a total uh i can't believe it lasted 20 years i i i just it just boggles my mind um i think the generals knew that it wasn't working it didn't make any sense we all certainly knew that it wasn't working. No one was surprised. None of the guys that I served with were surprised what happened during the pullout. Was the I want to get to the pullout in a second. Was there any ability of individual

Marines if they said this is crazy, this makes no sense, I want to get out of here? What options existed for being able to pack it up and be sent home? Well, you have Bo Bergdahl. Bo Bergdahl just left. Um, that's one option it was a very long process you could say you were a conscientious objector but all these things required like multiple psychiatric evaluations to make sure to kind of catch 22 like situations still where if you're too crazy if you say you're crazy then you're not crazy you'd have to be right to fight in a meaningless war but if you do want to fight

then you are crazy so right it's a catch-22 um you also have to uh take into effect that like i said the institutionalization of the system, not wanting to be the outlier, not wanting to be that guy. Yeah. With regard to the pullout, do you have an opinion about it? I mean, you know, my view is the pullout would have been right whether it was Trump or Biden. It almost certainly would have been chaotic whether it was Trump or Biden. But I'm glad that it was done. What's your sense of it? Speaker 4

I think that's exactly my sense. I don't think there's a graceful way to lose a 20 year war. I think it was exactly like Vietnam. I think most Americans, especially on the right, were just upset by the optics of it, how it looked. Nobody really gave a shit about Afghanistan for 20 years. That's how it was able to last that long, because we have an all-volunteer army. There's no draft, so it's a very small percentage of people that are actually invested in the war. That's how it was able to last 20 years.

What upset most Americans was the optics of the pullout. You know, seeing. 12, you know, it's like 12. I think 12 Marines died right during during the pullout. I believe that's the number. Yeah. Yeah. How many?

Yeah. How many Afghan civilians did we kill throughout that whole 20 years? You know, how many Marines died during that whole time? And it was just the hubris. It was American hubris finally coming to realization. Holy shit. We just, you know, we're running out of here like a dog with its tail between its legs after 20 years of fighting guys who were wearing flip flops and using Soviet era, World War II era weapons. military the biggest military budget in the world the biggest country with the biggest war machine

uh lost in such a disgraceful way i think that i think that's what really upset people i don't think there was the only thing i would have done differently is just tried to get more afghans out right you know and especially the the interpreters and translators that worked with us. Yep. A lot of them were left behind. I lost a lot of friends because of that. But yeah, I think it was mostly the optics that offended people. We've been speaking with Miles Lugosi, U.S. Marine veteran and author of the book Whistles from the Graveyard, My Time Behind the Camera on War, Rage and Restless Youth in Afghanistan. Really appreciate your time and insights, Miles. Thank you. Thanks a lot.

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Now, remember that Ivanka Trump is not a defendant in that trial. She is simply a witness. Here she is showing up yesterday morning for her testimony. Bear in mind, as you watch this from afar, real estate on the island of Manhattan for decades has yielded billions and billions of dollars to hundreds of people in this city. A case of this matter has never gone to court. It's the first one of its kind. That's Fox News, I guess, suggesting that something here is unfair. The expectation was that Ivanka would claim, I don't know anything. I wasn't involved in anything. I don't remember anything.

Here is Attorney General Letitia James before Ivanka's testimony attempting to preempt that. Speaker 4 Morning, everyone. This morning we will hear from Ivanka Trump, who will be our last witness on our case on direct in our case against Donald Trump, her brothers and the Trump organization. Ivanka Trump secured and negotiated loans to obtain favorable terms based on fraudulent statements of financial condition. And she will attempt today to distance herself from the company. Right.

Unfortunately, the facts will reveal that, in fact, she was very much involved. We uncovered the scheme, and she benefited from it personally. And Miss Trump will do all that she can to try to separate herself from this corporation. But she's inextricably tied to the Trump organization and to these properties that she helped secure financing for. So that is basically what Ivanka Trump tried to do. There's a good Associated Press article that explains all of it and says Trump's daughter worried he was not wealthy enough. Emails in New York fraud trial show as Donald Trump sought to

buy a Florida golf course, his daughter expressed concern he wasn't wealthy enough, testifying she did indeed seek to distance herself from the questionable valuation methods that have already been ruled fraudulent. She acknowledged she did work on real estate deals for the company, but said she was not involved in calculating Trump's net worth. Quote, I generally understood there was a personal guarantee. This level of granularity was not something I can sit here today and say that I recall. Remember that Donald Trump has now admitted from the witness stand that sometimes he would opine on valuations

and attempt to suggest that those be changed. We don't really know the full scope of what the defense is that will be put on by Trump's lawyers starting next week. We have now gotten through the final testimony for the prosecution's case. It is Ivanka Trump. It is exactly as it was expected, saying, I don't remember. I don't know. I wasn't involved. Next week, the defense starts and we'll cover that and we'll see what sort of an argument they want to make. I want to talk a little bit more about the Tuesday night results, which were mostly very bad for Republicans. One of the big picture elements of Tuesday that I talked about was Democrats overperformed the polls.

And so if we are making assessments about November of 2024 based on today's polling, not only is it too early, but we have further proof of the inaccuracy of polls to be necessarily indicative of what will happen a year from now from the fact that even just compared to last week's polling, Democrats overperformed. But when you look at the nitty gritty, you find a lot of very interesting details. For example, Democrats flipped a county that Donald Trump won by nearly 60 points. This is genuinely stunning stuff. Democratic Governor Andy Beshear in Kentucky looks set to pull off a big win in Letcher County. Trump won that county by almost 60 in 2020. And with 95 percent of the votes reporting, Beshear had won that county 53 to 47.

Think of that flip Trump almost plus 60. To the Democrat plus six, that's almost a 66 point swing, 65, 64 point swing. Now I know that it's important to remember that looking at one Kentucky county in a gubernatorial race to try to evaluate what might happen nationally next year in a presidential race is not smart and it's not smart for a lot of reasons, including that Kentucky Kentucky votes for governors differently than it votes for presidents. Kentucky for president is going to vote for whoever is the Republican nominee. And so what the hell does this county tell us? That's an absolutely valid defense. The point here is to understand that in a lot of ways, we don't have an environment in which it's

obvious that Republicans are going to do well in 2024. There are people who are suggesting the stage is set for a Democratic disaster in 2024. Maybe the only thing Democrats can do is push out Joe Biden and try to get, I don't know, you know, Vivek Ramaswamy was saying maybe Gavin Newsom, maybe Michelle Obama, even though she said she's not going to run. And part of that argument is about Biden. But part of that argument is about Democrats are just going to get killed. And then you see results like that. A county Trump won by 60 carried by the incumbent Democratic governor. It doesn't tell us everything we need to know.

It doesn't suggest we give up on campaigning. It doesn't suggest any of us stay home. But it is a very interesting signal of the tide that Republicans need on their side, which at least as of this moment does not appear to be. We have a voicemail number. That number is two one nine two David P. I'm going to play a voicemail for you from I think it's fair to say this is an anti-trans transgender caller. And all of this relates to on yesterday's show. I talked about some comments made by Fox host Jeanine Pirro, where she said she's always been offended by the transgenders.

The comment was related to trans women in sports. And we talked about it. And I explained to you that it's a nuanced issue. There are lots of people on the right who want to say it's a super simple issue. No, no men in women's sports. And as we talked about yesterday, uh, on the basis of a lot of different things, including that it's a tiny issue in terms of the population, 0.6% of the population is trans. Only part of that population is trans women. Only part of that population plays sports. Only part of that population plays sports at a level at which we would care about this.

And only part of that population plays the types of sports where biological sex plays a role at a level where we would care about this. So it's it's it's a tiny, tiny, tiny issue. And when we talk about hormone replacement therapy and so many other things, we realize it's also a nuanced issue. Here's a caller who is taking the issue in a different direction. Let me put it that way. Take a listen. Hey, David, this is Bob in the Columbus area. I basically love your show. But when you were

talking about the transgender issue, I think you really dropped the ball because some of the things you've said is that even though they go through the high school and she's in sports in a locker room, would you feel comfortable with a transgender woman who has fully intact male genitalia right next to your daughter? I think this is very bizarre. OK, so. So listen, first of all, I think it's important to point out. That this caller is moving the goalposts. It's fascinating because first, it's all about fairness and performance and muscle mass and

all of this stuff. And then we have this detailed conversation yesterday. It's nuanced. It really depends on the sports. There is an advantage that's maintained. But in a lot of sports, especially after a year of HRT, that is very much within the distribution of what you would expect, even among biological women. So then he just goes, yeah, but what about your daughter seeing a penis in the locker room?

Well, but that's a completely different issue. Was it about fairness and performance and athletic integrity? Or is it about the idea of a penis in the girls locker room? Now, I have to say a couple of different things about this. First of all. From the people I talk to who have junior and high school age kids at this point. There aren't people walking around the locker room naked. I mean, I'm sure it exists, right? Like, I'm sure that there are parts of the country that still have the locker room styles from, you know, the 50s. And I guess people are just completely naked walking around the locker room or something. But from what 99 percent of the parents I speak to

tell me and again, this is people mostly in coastal cities in Miami, New York and Boston, Los Angeles, San Francisco. They say that's not the type of locker room that there is. So this is really, again, a red herring. It's just another argument that doesn't really make any sense. They're, you know, individual changing stalls and everybody has privacy for changing. People aren't walking around naked. So I don't even know, again, to what degree this is an issue. But once again, it doesn't really get to the core of this, which is now we're talking. So so this caller now, I guess, isn't worried about performance, isn't worried about athletic integrity, isn't worried about performance, isn't worried about athletic integrity, isn't worried about professional sports because then we're talking about adults,

isn't worried about college sports because then we're talking about adults. Now they're again narrowing the conversation to the slice of trans people who are trans women, who are athletes, who are in schools where there aren't individual stalls for changing. And how how would I feel about that if my we're talking about almost nothing? We're talking about almost nothing. Now, that all being said, we should be creating environments in general in locker rooms that are safe and inclusive for students. Even before the right was obsessed with the trans women issue, there were problems in locker rooms, bullying in locker rooms, different things that were going on. So locker rooms should be designed to respect privacy, ensure people are

comfortable. And many schools have gone to the private changing area direction, the individual stall direction, single bathrooms. So it doesn't matter what genitalia you have or how you identify. So it's also an important issue in general, which was not dealt with, quite frankly, in a lot of schools for a long time. So I guess the issue now is that and not the athletic performance, but they'll always find something, I think, is the point. We have a great bonus show for you today. The U.S. has launched airstrikes in Syria. Why and what is the point? We will discuss it. Ohio has become the 24th state to legalize marijuana and the Supreme Court is leaning towards upholding a law that bars those accused of domestic violence from having firearms.

And some are saying that's not due process. An accusation is not guilt. And so how will you take away someone's right to a gun based only on an accusation? We will talk about that on today's bonus show, the bonus show where you want to make money. Everybody else that makes money to fund themselves is bad. Sign up at join pacman dot com. The coupon code is four years for indictments for 50 percent off. I look forward to speaking to you then. And we'll also be back tomorrow, of course, with the Friday show.