The David Pakman Show - 12/13/22: Inflation Down, "Marshall Law" Texts Leak

Episode Date: December 13, 2022

-- On the Show: -- Joe Walsh, former Republican Congressman from Illinois and host of the podcast "White Flag with Joe Walsh," joins David to discuss the 2024 election, and Republican primary, and much more -- The latest inflation numbers come in lower than expected, sending stocks soaring, and raising questions about whether the worst is over -- Right-wing meteorologist Joe Bastardi goes on a completely delusional rant about climate change during an appearance on Fox News' Tucker Carlson show -- A stunning leak of text messages expose Republicans around the January 6 Trump riots, including Congressman Ralph Norman who was calling for Trump to invoke "Marshall law" -- A soaking wet Donald Trump is interviewed by his own lawyer, Christina Bobb, on OAN, and the interview is a disaster -- A stunning new poll shows that nearly two-thirds of Republicans want someone other than Donald Trump to be their 2024 nominee -- Failed Arizona Republican Gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake is interviewed by former Trump propagandist Steven Bannon, and it's utterly absurd -- RNC Chair Ronna McDaniel doesn't like being asked about the 2022 torpedo that was Donald Trump -- Voicemail caller thinks that David is bad for America, and Trump's Twitter followers prove Biden is bad -- On the Bonus Show: Trump, Kanye, and Nick Fuentes pushing antisemitism to forefront of GOP, NASA's Artemis I returns from the moon, FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried arrested, much more... 🌰 Munk Pack: Code PAKMAN saves you 20% at https://thld.co/munkpack_pakman_1222 🔊 Try Blinkist for FREE and get 25% off at http://www.blinkist.com/pakman 🌿 Sunset Lake CBD: Get 20% OFF using code PAKMAN at https://sunsetlakecbd.com 🌳 Use code PAKMAN for 20% off HoldOn plant-based bags at https://holdonbags.com -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Subscribe to Pakman Finance: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanfinance -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

Well, my friends, inflation has come in and it has come in low. And if we want to participate in this ridiculous game wherein we say, well, if inflation going up was Joe Biden's fault, then inflation coming down must be credited to Joe Biden. Now, you and I and many of the people that are in our audience kind of prefer to operate more in the real world where we don't play these political games with gas prices and with inflation. So let's not play them. Let's just look at the data and understand that inflation is a global phenomenon. And we're going to look at global numbers and we're going to punch the microphone, as I often do when I get excited. And we'll hopefully have an

understanding of the fact that this is something that shouldn't really surprise us because it's been the most likely trajectory for a while. Although in general, we are not particularly good as humans at making economic predictions. It did seem as though inflation peaked some months ago and it would be lower by the end of the year. And indeed it is. So let's start with the data. CNBC reporting Consumer prices rose less than expected in November, up 7.1% from a year ago. The consumer price index rose just 0.1% from the previous month, increased 7.1% from a year ago, compared with respective estimates of 0.3 and 7.3 percent. Core CPI, the consumer price index, rose 0.2 percent on the month and 6 percent on an annual basis compared with respective estimates of 0.3 percent and 6.1 percent. Stocks soared. The Dow is, as of right now, up about 400 points. Inflation adjusted

average hourly earnings for workers rose 0.5% for the month, though they were still down 1.9% from a year ago. Now, whenever we do these numbers, there's confusion. David, wait, our prices up or are they down? What does it mean? But if prices rose, how are they down? Remember that there are two components to this. What happened last month and how does adding the data from last month change the last 12 months of inflation? So remember, we want a little bit of inflation. We have an economy.

And I know that this gets into, well, do we really buy into this traditional economic stuff? And I get that. I get that. But the sort of standard view is you want a little bit of inflation, a little bit of inflation is good. Why? If you have a ton of inflation, things become unaffordable. So people stop buying, which hurts businesses. So they lay people off and then those people have no money to buy stuff and it's bad for the economy. That's too much inflation. If you have deflation, it might sound good. You might say, sir, ma'am, it's cheaper. Stuff is good. Deflation sounds good. No, it's not good for the economy. Why? If you expect prices to continue declining, if you're looking at a car, right, an electric

vehicle, for example, and you expect because we're in a deflationary situation that if you wait six months, the prices will be lower. You wouldn't buy the car. That's bad for the businesses. The employees at the electric car businesses get laid off because nobody's buying cars because you expect prices to go down. So the idea is a little bit of inflation creates an incentive to buy now rather than later. It's not so much that things become unaffordable. And that is where economic growth comes from. Now, believe me, I'll be the first to tell you those sort of completely rational actor economic analyses lack a very real component.

I am with you. But those are the oranges, for lack of a better term, of why a little bit of inflation is good. Getting us back to the numbers. There was a little bit of inflation last month, but compared to November of 21, it was lower. So when we replace in the one year inflation number, the November 21 number with the November 22 number year over year inflation is lower. Okay. So that's that. Uh, Dow surges 400 points as investors cheer the light inflation report. You know, I don't put a lot of stock in these types of headlines.

I think it's important to remember that, you know, to some degree. This has been predicted for months. So if markets were completely efficient and rational, this this new data would have already been priced in. It doesn't really make sense that the Dow pops because the data was what it is, but the expectation on paper was of slightly higher inflation and it came in lower. Okay. If you're in the market, it's a good day. And as many of you know, much of the return in the markets happens on just 10 days out of the year. Today may be one of those days. Lastly, remember that inflation is a global phenomenon. And when you look at the inflation rates, this is data from October in some countries and November in some.

You see that among wealthier and larger nations, nations that are part of this list, we're looking at the trading economics.com list. You see that the U S is sort of like right in the middle now with year over year inflation at 7.1% down from, you know, in the high eights. And you see that for example, in Italy and in the UK, inflation is significantly higher. Uh, whereas in, uh,, in Italy and in the UK, inflation is significantly higher, whereas in Brazil and France and Singapore and Spain, inflation is lower than in the US. Has very little to do with Joe Biden. Global phenomenon, US sort of like right in the middle there. So this is overall, I believe, a good thing. Inflation has been too high.

It has been a strain on American budgets. And hopefully this continues and we can get down again. We're just we're not good at this, but it would be nice to continue seeing the year over year numbers tick down over the next six months where maybe we can get to like the low fives, high fours by summertime. And that would be historically much more pleasant, I think is the word that I would use. So that's the latest on inflation. I'm going to play a video for you today. It is a video of a right wing meteorologist going completely mental on Tucker Carlson. I thought I was on hallucinogens. I thought maybe someone slipped acid into my cappuccino or a flat white. I've been going more in the direction of

the flat white lately, something about that foam. But that's really for a different day. I thought I was on something when I saw this video because the video doesn't make any sense. A Fox News propagandist, Tucker Carlson, who does entertainment. Remember when if when when the rubber hits the road and Tucker gets sued, lawyers go, oh, this is not news. This is entertainment. OK, he did a segment, an entertainment segment, I guess, with a meteorologist named Joe Bastardi. And that's that's really his name. I'm not I know people will write in and say, David, that's that's rude. You're being rude by calling him bastard.

No, no. His name's Joe Bastardi. This video is so unbelievably unhinged, but it's a great representation of how the right to a great degree. I was going to say analyzes, but there's really no analysis here, deals with topics they don't like. The right gets angry that, for example, people now believe in climate change and climate science. And Bastardi starts rattling off right wing talking points interspersed with the word climate change. He throws the word vaccine and COVID in there as well. I challenge you to figure out what the hell this guy is talking about. OK, let's get into it. Well, I don't know. I've been giving this a lot of thought today because I had to drive from. Oh, guys, he's been thinking that can't be good. Iowa City all the way to Pittsburgh. And when I went by South Bend, oddly enough, it hit me. There are three possibilities here, in my opinion,

just looking at this, OK? First is they've all got climate vaccines. We don't know about them. But unlike the COVID vaccine, they actually work. So whatever they do, they're immune from it. So that's a possibility. That's a long shot. The second, Tucker, is that if bad weather stops air travel, it stops car travel. If you can cause more bad weather, right, then guess what? Even Tucker is having trouble following this or pretending to because that's really all he does at the end of the day. Everybody can't drive. For instance, next week and the week after, Watch how much bad weather comes into the United States. It's going to be the coldest, snowiest period around

the Christmas time since 2000. Speaker 1 So now I think what he's doing right now is it's going to snow in December. So climate change couldn't possibly be real. I think that that's what this part of the diatribe is. Speaker 2 and all these other things shut down. So if you just dump all the CO2 in the atmosphere and your assumption is, hey, CO2 causes bad weather. If I can cause more bad weather, then guess what? If you're watching, Tucker isn't frozen.

He just looks really confused. He's in like a confused trance. People won't be able to fly, will have less CO2 emissions. Or the third possibility, exactly what you said. It's a phony climate war. It's fraudulent. You could tell when we talked back in July, we were talking about it's going to get cold early this year across the United States.

That has nothing to do with CO2. What it has to do is the natural cycles of the weather. And what's happened is these people have taken advantage of people who fall prey to this. And this is what they're doing. There's no logic or reason for it, except they are trying to establish a caste system that destroys the greatest experiment. A caste system? Freedom and individuality, which is this country right here in the United States. Of course. I mean, if you really believe that carbon was a pollutant, you would be planting pine and spruce and hemlock and evergreens across the country,

but they're cutting them down to make way for highways and dollar stores. That's a completely unrelated issue. And Chuck are now pretending to be a tree saving environmentalist is really the cherry on top. That rant, that scrambled mess of what I believe qualifies as English language words. That's what's going on in the heads of many of these right wingers. When you know know, when our correspondent Luke Beasley, the Beasneys or whoever, they go to the Trump rallies and they talk to these Trumpists and it's just stuff is coming out. You hear noise coming out of the mouth, but it doesn't really make any sense. This is what's going on in their brain. This is what's going on in their brain.

It's just saying climate change every few seconds while throwing in other right wing talking points. And this is this guy is an outspoken climate denier. He's written books about it. The scientific consensus is completely at odds with everything that he says. He said the world is warmer. It was warmer in the 30s than today as measured how and in what context and what does that really matter at the end of the day? He says that human contributions to carbon dioxide are so small that they couldn't possibly have any effect. Science does not agree with that. It's a complete and total mess. And so this is sort of like the blind leading the blind. It's the perfect audience, the Fox News audience. But these folks are dangerous because next thing you know, you'll go on the conservative subreddit and people are repeating this guy's exact talking points.

So this stuff spreads like a virus. They don't seem to be inoculated against the disinformation. And here we are left to pick up the pieces and try to figure out how we can make some progress on dealing with this issue. Sad, sad stuff. Very, very sad stuff. Very, very sad stuff. Make sure if you have an Amazon prime account that you have subscribed to Twitch prime. It's free if you have Amazon prime. And when you subscribe to Twitch prime at twitch.tv slash David Pakman, you basically send us a few dollars that would otherwise go to Jeff Bezos.

That sounds pretty damn good, given that it costs you nothing. Check it out. We're going to take a quick break and be right back. When you're working during the day, when you're on the go and you're in the mood for something sweet, don't reach for the candy bar. Go for something that's just as good, but without the sugar and carbs. Our sponsor, Monk Pack, makes delicious keto granola bars and nut and seed bars. They're tasty, crunchy, gooey, sweet and salty.

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M.U.N.K.P.A.C.K. dot com. Use code Pacman for 20 percent off. The info is in the podcast notes. You love nonfiction books. You love learning as much as you can about politics and economics and history and science, but you just don't have the time to read every book that you want to read. That's why I'm such a big fan of Blinkist. It's the app that takes thousands of nonfiction books, boils them down into an explainer that you can read or listen to in 15 minutes and get the most important insights from the book. You take a topic you've been wanting to explore and you can consume 10 books about it in an afternoon. It gives you a meaningful overview and insight into what other books you might want to read in full. I just read Welcome to the Universe. It's Neil deGrasse

Tyson's latest book. That's exactly the type of book that I would love to have the time to read. But my stack of books is already so big. My girlfriend and I also use the Blinkist connect feature to share and discuss books with one another with one account. And it makes a great The David Pakman Show David Pakman dot com slash Pakman to try it free and get 25 percent off. The link is in the podcast notes. A series of text messages that were provided by Mark Meadows, Donald Trump's former chief of staff, are absolutely chilling in the complete and total disregard for the Constitution and for our elections that they expose, particularly from some Republican members of Congress, including one guy, Ralph Norman,

who said that he wanted Donald Trump to declare martial law. That's M.A.R.S.H.A.L.L., which we'll get to. This is really horrifying stuff. Republican congressman wanted Trump to invoke, quote, martial law to stay in office based on some leaked texts. Mark Meadows texted with 34 different lawmakers about overturning the 2020 election, including a confused Ralph Norman talking points memo has some of the most stunning messages. And at the top of that list is this message we're putting up on the screen from Ralph Norman, who wrote to Mark Meadows, quote, Mark, in seeing what's happening so quickly and reading about the Dominion lawsuits attempting to stop any meaningful investigation, We are at a point of no return

in saving our republic. Our last hope is invoking martial law, misspelled. Please urge president to do so. Clearly, Norman, a fan of the rapper Eminem, whose real name is Marshall Mathers, and that's what he meant by martial law. He thought some of the songs Eminem, whose real name is Marshall Mathers. And that's what he meant by martial law. He thought some of the songs might be useful. These are not the actions of a small government constitutionalist conservative, are they? Hey, even though we lost and the Constitution says Biden now gets to be president, let's try to invoke and use the military to keep us in power. This was an attempt at a coup, which he said, let's try and do it. And importantly, this text message was sent on January 17th, 2021. Think about what that means. It means that after seeing everything

that happened on January 6th, Ralph Norman thought, give me some more of that stuff. We need more of that. The insurrection. I'd like to order another one. Please bring me another one on the rocks. So what is our takeaway? And we'll post the links.

There's a lot of other text messages that you can look at. For example, there's like a Jason Miller text message. FYI, I asked Ali Pardo from our press shop to get in touch with Mo Brooks since he seems to be the ringleader leader on January 6th. They say they will have as many as 50 members on board on January 6th, but we won't have a list of names until Sunday or Monday. Anyway, the point here is they were all planning. They were all involved. It's it's even more horrifying than we believed. And I encourage you to look at and read through the text messages. But what's the takeaway? The takeaway is this is not the last time they're going to try this.

They're going to be back. There was way more support for this than we might have thought or hoped. Number one. Number two, the recent Marjorie Taylor Greene clip that we looked at yesterday where she said, you know, if I had been in charge of the insurrection, I would have been armed and we would have won means that they see what happened on January 6th as a loss, not because there were crimes committed, not because people got arrested. They see January 6th as a loss because they didn't succeed in stealing the election and getting the guy who didn't win in the Oval Office. So they're clearly going to try again. They failed. Their execution was horrible, but it was clearly much closer than it ever should have been to being something that happened and could have been their

definition of success. There's no doubt what they wanted. It's not going to be the last time. Next time, the concern is, will they have all of the players in place? Will they better know where it could be hung up and be prepared to deal with that? Will they have stronger cover from courts after more V Harper? Will they have a legal framework to ignore elections? So this is a red alert moment. One of the things I always try to do on this show is not to be hyperbolic and to catastrophize. But this is really worse than we've probably acknowledged. And we've acknowledged that it is pretty damn bad. So check out the text messages. We'll publish the links. They're all there. And I'm sure, by the way, I haven't looked through all of them. It's thousands of messages.

You may find things that are as or even more concerning than the martial law comment from Ralph Norman. Let me know if you do find those things. I have never seen anything like this, maybe ever. A soaking wet Donald Trump. Why can't they turn up the AC? It's his own house after all. A soaking wet Donald Trump who has barely left his home in the month since he declared he was running for president. Why isn't he leaving his house? We don't know. Was interviewed by his own lawyer as if she's a news anchor journalist on OAN. And it still was a disastrous interview. Christina Bob is an anchor on OAN, One American News.

And she is one of Donald Trump's lawyers who tried to run interference during the entire FBI Mar-a-Lago search warrant. She interviewed Trump as if it's just a journalist. And it was still so humiliating for Donald Trump. Why is he always soaking wet? We don't know. Is it hyperhidrosis? Is it flop sweat? We just don't know. Listen to this first segment. Select committee. They're looking at everything other than two things. They don't want to know about Nancy Pelosi turning down 10,000 soldiers because she didn't. Nancy Pelosi did not turn down 10,000 soldiers. Trump insists he asked for 10,000 soldiers.

There is not a shred of evidence that Donald Trump made that request for January 6th. She doesn't look like the look. Have you had 10,000 soldiers for, you know, hundreds of people? They wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the place. Now, consider how funny it is that when it comes to the turnout in general on January 6th, Trump says there might have been a million people at his speech at which he encouraged them to go to the Capitol. But now he says, well, there were only a few hundred people at his speech at which he encouraged them to go to the Capitol. But now he says, well, there were only a few hundred people at the Capitol. Now, of course, both are lies. There were not a million people at his speech and there were way more than a few hundred people. There are 700 defendants who allegedly committed crimes at the Capitol. There were,

of course, thousands, tens of thousands of people. But every number Trump gives is a lie. There would have been no no January 6th. There wouldn't have been a January 6th. So maybe the problem. Oh, no. Well, there are a lot of people that think they wanted it, but she's trying to help him. But he won't take the life preserver. But if you had soldiers circling, and I recommended it strongly. That's a lie. But it's her decision. She's the one that has to make the decision.

That's also a lie. And nobody likes talking about that. But we recommend it because I knew that a lot of people were coming down. They were coming down because they thought the election was rigged. We know. And they were right.

But that's why they were coming down. And that's why they don't want to talk about that. And they don't want to talk about the rigged election. They all they want to talk about is the people and those people are being. We just keep focusing on all of the people that Trump motivated to commit acts of violence and criminality, but not the fact that the election was rigged because the election wasn't rigged. He did. Many of them are being treated unbelievably unfairly. Compare that to what happened in the riots where Black Lives Matter and Antifa killed people. They killed people. I have found no evidence that Black Lives Matter and Antifa killed people. There is an article that's a couple of years old from The Guardian, which says anti-fascists linked to zero murders in the US in 25 years. That data has changed. There is now one homicide in the US that has been tentatively linked to a self-described anti-fascist.

I don't think it's convenient to Trump to compare the numbers to right wing violence in the United States. Let's go to a little bit more of this interview. And it is really wacky. Speaker 4 I think Biden would look as obviously bad as this is, by the way, a compilation from our friend Aaron Ruppar does. If it hadn't been so starkly contrasted with your huge success of an administration. That's a beautiful journalistic

question, huh? Your administration was so good. Is that part of why Biden looks terrible? The Keystone Pipeline, Keystone XL. Yeah, it was all done. They were starting. And, you know, the sad part is that's a union job and the union head endorsed Biden. And like immediately after he gets into office, he terminates the Keystone pipeline. Right. And that union should get rid of that guy. And I guarantee you, the union workers voted for me. I bet you most of them voted for me. But I bet you they didn't. The head of the union endorsed Biden and then Biden terminated it immediately. He didn't say it was he's good said he was going to look it over. Right. But he didn't. It was another lie. See, that's the big lie. Not us. They're the big lie. Just it's just free word association.

And Christina Bob is desperate to help, but she just can't. And they're the big lie on the election to not us. It's the exact opposite. Right. And then you have the unselect committee. They're looking at everything other than two things. Yeah. So then that's the segment we already saw. Let's skip forward a little bit to just a little more. Minneapolis, they burned down. Look at what happened in Seattle where they took over a big part of the city. Yeah. And Portland is like people put up wooden storefronts because they get knocked down as fast as they put them up and people are getting killed and nothing happens to those people.

And yet with the other, it's like incredible. Not only nothing happens, you have people, Democrats trying to get bail money to get them out when most of them are in jail anyway. So it doesn't matter. But compare that treatment with the treatment that these people are getting. And it's just a very, very unfair situation. It's it's just all over the place. Trump now cares about pretrial detention when it comes to the people that committed acts of violence defending him. Right, sir.

And I know we're almost out of time, but I wanted to ask you one more. As riveting as this is, sir, we are almost out of time. Trump's like, I'll stay for hours. I'm not doing anything. I don't leave my house. This is just one of the many great pictures that you pulled for your book about the rallies. Oh, God. What do you think about the rallies? I know you have one coming up in South Carolina. South Carolina. We have another one coming up in Georgia very soon. No, the rallies are incredible. The rallies, honestly, and you know it because you go to some of them. They're bigger now than they were before the election. That's, of course, untrue. And Donald Trump does appear to be getting back into the rallies. What the point of the rallies will be,

we don't know. But at least in theory, he's a presidential candidate. I guess he'll talk about the fact that he's running wacky stuff as delusional as ever. Let's talk about one bit of not so good news for the failed former president. A stunning new poll shows Trump support among Republicans collapsing to historic lows. You have to see this. It doesn't bode well for Trump. And it does start to point to, will this guy even make it to the first Republican primaries? USA Today reports via Yahoo News, Trump in trouble, Republican support for his 2024 bid falls amid political and legal setbacks. This is a USA Today Suffolk University poll, and it finds that by a two to one margin, Republican and Republican leading voters say they want Trump's policies, but they want someone other than Trump to be the nominee. 31% of Republicans want Trump to run. 61% of Republicans

believe it should be a different Republican nominee, mostly to continue Trump's policies, which is funny because it's like what policies he did nothing other than putting in place some confused tariffs. They have a name in mind, writes USA Today. Two thirds of Republicans and those inclined to vote Republican want Florida Governor Ron DeSantis to run for president by double digits, 56 to 33. They prefer DeSantis over Trump. These are stunning numbers. I know people will write to me and say, David, they're only calling landlines. No, Suffolk USA Today uses cell phones as well. Well, but David, think about who would even answer a phone call from a pollster. OK, yes, a lot of people don't answer their phone, but I don't know that the people who answer are disproportionately likely to be DeSantis supporters.

I mean, it seems that this is a fair poll that was done as correctly as any poll would be done. So this is a red flag for Donald Trump. make it to the primaries or is support going to crater to such a degree that he's going to bail to avoid a further humiliation and cite health reasons or some other thing that he wants to do? We don't know the answer. It's very early, but the early numbers aren't looking good. We'll talk more about campaign events, which are starting to be put on the calendar sometime soon. We're going to take a quick break. All the clips I played for you today will be on our Instagram, which you can find at David Pakman show. And of course they will all be on our YouTube channel. Subscribe on YouTube. Okay. Three. I just got the November numbers. 3.4 million people in November watched our clips but aren't subscribed. If we can get just a third of

those three point four million people overnight, we get to two million YouTube subscribers. Make it happen, my friends. being an independent show is that I can pick advertising partners that share our values and our sponsor, Sunset Lake CBD grows the highest quality CBD you can find anywhere. And it's an awesome company. It's a hemp farm outside Burlington, Vermont. I love Burlington that uses sustainable farming practices and is majority owned by its employees. Last year, Sunset Lake CBD donated over sixty thousand dollars to drug decriminalization, animal shelters, public radio stations, union strike funds, nature conservation, food shelves

and refugee resettlement organizations. I really enjoy Sunset Lake's CBD coffee, which uses Rainforest Alliance coffee beans. Producer Pat takes the Sunset Lake CBD gummies for sleep. Sunset Lake CBD also has oils, flour, topicals, you name it. A ton of people report CBD being helpful for things like insomnia or stress, sometimes pain. The David Pakman Show you 20 percent off everything. The info is in the podcast notes. It's great to have back on the program today, Joe Walsh, former U.S. representative from Illinois, former presidential candidate, host of the podcast White Flag with Joe Walsh. Always great to have you on. I appreciate it. David, always good to be with you. I'm a huge fan. Thank you. Thank you. So,

OK, let's let's just jump right into the sum of the meat here. Twenty twenty two for historical reasons should have been great for Republicans. Red wave predicted by some red wave that ended with Democrats gaining a seat, although now they kind of lost it because of Kyrsten Sinema. But it seems she'll still, I guess, caucus with Democrats kind of lost it because of Kyrsten Sinema. But it seems she'll still, I guess, caucus with Democrats. It's still sort of shaking out. Ronna McDaniel was recently asked on Fox News how much of what happened was because of Donald Trump. And she said she doesn't really want to talk about that. To what degree do you think what happened is because of Donald Trump? I think pretty much the whole thing was because of Donald Trump.

Americans rejected all these crazy, these bat, you know what, crazy election denying candidates. Where did all these election denying, crazy anti-democracy candidates come from? Trump. Trump pushed them. They came from his stable. They are him. And I give David, I give Biden a lot of credit because he stuck to this defending democracy thing when a lot of smart Democratic advisers said, come on, President Biden, move off of that focus on inflation and gas. But he stuck with it. I think of a lot of a lot of Americans generally said we do want to defend democracy. They're assuming that that's true. And again, when you look at split tickets, like when you look at Georgia, for example, and you see Brian Kemp easily won and then Herschel Walker lost. I mean, not by much, but he did lose. But the gap between Walker and Kemp was

significant. It does suggest that Republican voters were discerning in terms of which Republicans they were willing to vote for. Once we look at that, we have a new poll that finds almost two thirds of Republicans, even if they like Trump policy, they don't want him to be the nominee in 2024. There are increasingly analyses that say Trump won't even make it to the first primaries. What do you think? I'd say two things, David. He's the king of this party.

He right now remains the cult leader. My former party is a cult. So do not write him off at all. But what I will say is this. I'm in a weird spot, right? Because I come from the megacult. I still engage with the megacult every day. And I will say two things about Republican-based voters that I talk to every day. They all want Trumpism. They all want that. And we all know what that is. And increasingly, they're concerned and worried that maybe Trump is no longer the voice of that.

Here's the important point, David, that you know. Not because they think there's anything wrong with Trump. They just don't think he can win. So will this be permanent? I don't know. And the other thing I'd say, David, is who's going to slay the king? So will this be permanent? I don't know. And I don't. The other thing I'd say, David, is who's going to slay the king? Who's going to slam?

Well, I mean, it's it is interesting that DeSantis, without having even announced in some polls, is easily beating a former president of the United States that it's a signal that maybe DeSantis can do it. But you know, when I think about imagine DeSantis says I'm running and a national campaign starts, you know, I don't know. I mean, can DeSantis actually handle that? I'm not sure. I know DeSantis. I know him pretty well in the pre-Trump days. Look, he's got zero charisma. He's not good on his feet. Yeah. He's very thin skinned. And most Republicans around the country really don't know who he is. He is a marker right now. He's a default

spot for all these Trump voters who want Trumpism and they don't know where else to go. I tend to believe that once he's under a national spotlight, I don't think he'll do well. Yeah. And, and I've read a number of pieces that say brilliant guy, uh, much more competent than Trump, but sort of like constitutionally he may not really have what it takes to actually face the national campaign with the nicknames and the debt. But at the same time, it is a different Trump. I mean, if you just look at Trump's something, I don't know what's going

on with Trump. But when you look at video from six years ago, from from 2015, 2016, his facility with language and the insults and the quips and whatever, he does seem diminished at this point to some degree. Would you agree? 00.00 I don't know. But what I do know, David, is where's he been? I get that he had to announce a month ago because if he didn't announce, he'd look like, you know, a loser. So he had to come out thinking that the midterms would be a big victory for him. But I got to tell you something, David. Every single day, I hear Republican voters tell me every day, hey, Joe, shut up. Twitter did steal the 2020 election. I told you it was rigged. Now, this is a huge issue, an animating issue for Republican voters. It's a it's a layup for Trump. And I don't know why Donald Trump has not been more active. I don't know why he's not on Twitter. I don't know why he's not holding a rally

somewhere right now screaming that Twitter stole the 2020 election. Yeah, it's it's strange. A report. I don't remember if it was Vanity Fair or which one that Trump has barely left his house since making the announcement. He did an interview with OAN yesterday where he's mentioning, I guess, some rallies that maybe are planned, but it's it's I don't know how much momentum is going to be behind those at this point. Is there still a standard bearer right now in the Republican Party that is the more kind of prototypical conservative constitutionalist small government Republican. Like, is it is it like Mitt Romney? Maybe is there anyone left right now? No. Huh? David, there's no standard bearer for that wing of the party

because I don't believe that wing of the party is a real wing anymore. The standard part of the standard bearer for the party is still Trump until somebody knocks him down. And here's what I think about all the time, David. I left the party two and a half years ago. One of Trump's most outspoken critics. I'm still a crazy Tea Party conservative. If I ran in a Republican primary next year,

I wouldn't have a shot because I oppose Trump. Liz Cheney could never win in this party. Adam Kinzinger could never win. So if not Trump, the party is either you love Donald Trump or you'll be just like and better than Trump. I don't see room for any other Republican for a while. It does seem, though, that in the right district you would absolutely have a shot, doesn't it? I mean, if in a less Trumpy district, I don't know, Republican primary in a Republican primary. Well, I mean, listen, I guess it depends to what degree the Trump MAGA Association continues to be to diminish in importance, I guess.

I guess we don't know. I would, David, I would probably have better luck running as a very conservative Democrat. Maybe so. Maybe so. Maybe so. What do you expect now in the in these next two years? Because, of course, Democrats will have the majority in the Senate, depending on what happens with Kyrsten Sinema. It'll be 50 50 or it'll be 51 49. But either way, it's a majority to get things done that require a simple majority probably can't get much done that requires 60 votes over in the House. Republicans taking control, clearly an interest in investigating Hunter Biden, maybe even Hillary's emails, maybe Whitewater.

We don't know how far back they're going to go. What exactly is going to happen legislatively, if anything at all? Nothing. That for certain, David, we know that nothing legislatively is going to happen. My former colleagues in the House have made it clear, and they're not going to veer off of this, that they're going to investigate every Democrat that they can investigate, and they may try to impeach a few Democrats. Kevin McCarthy, I still believe, will be speaker. But David, he's sold every inch of his body. And I know a lot of people say this. I said this a long time ago. Marjorie Taylor Greene will be the speaker in reality. Really? She'll be squeezing McCarthy so hard for two years.

It's going to be her. And the other thing we know these next two years are going to be like is it's going to be Trump craziness. I think he's going to be indicted. I think he may be indicted a couple of times. And then what do Republican Party voters do? Do they rally around him? Do they say that's it? I don't know. Speaker 1 When it comes to the Hunter Biden stuff, I haven't heard you weigh in on it. My view has been I don't really care about Hunter Biden in the sense that he has nothing to do with the administration. If he did commit some crime and you can prove it, investigate, indict, what, what, I just don't care. I've no, it's like, I wasn't out there defending Anthony Weiner. And I just, I don't really care. It's the problem I have is it's being used to attack Joe Biden

in a way that seems disconnected from the facts that we have right now. What is your sense of the, of the entire Hunter Biden situation? It's it's David, you nailed it. It's purely political. I mean, I've had some Republicans tell me privately that they have to go after Hunter Biden because the base is demanding it. Look, let's let's be real. I think you and I are consistent on this. It pisses me off to no end when people use their service or their family service in government to enrich themselves. Jared Kushner did that. Hunter Biden did that with his dad for years. That's not his dad. That's him. The Justice Department will decide what they want to

do with him. But this is just, David, this is red meat, red meat for the base. And they have to throw some of this stuff at them for these two years. Do you think they will go as far in the house as to actually try to impeach Joe Biden? No, I don't. I there are some in the caucus who want to. But I think generally, as McCarthy is trying to become speaker, he's cutting deals with everybody. I believe that's probably one promise he couldn't make. Mm hmm. As you mentioned, even though you've left the Republican Party and you're anti-Trump, you were one of the prominent voices in the Tea Party movement back in 2010 ish. And at the time, quite, quite a strong opponent of then President Barack Obama's.

In retrospect, Obama wasn't really too bad, right? Even even by your standards. David, when I look back, sometimes I want to slap myself upside the head because you're right. Obama wasn't a crazy leftist. Being in Congress then and the talking points were always, we had to call him a socialist and all of the rest. And I engaged in too much of that, but, my God, no, no, not at all. And I've I've I've obviously over the years gained much respect for Barack Obama, even if I still genuinely disagree with him on most policy issues to talk about a policy issue, because last time we did this and it was interesting on taxes. Right. So top federal tax rate right now is 37 percent. And there's the idea of maybe it would go a little higher if Joe Biden got his way.

But we're talking about a couple of points. And then some say, well, we should have a higher bracket that starts higher with an even higher tax rate. What do you think about the level of federal taxation in the US right now? Like what would if it was just up to you, how would you organize tax brackets? If I were king of the world, David, I'd get rid of our complicated tax code. My my my innate default is always to let every American keep more of the money they make. I'd advocate and push some sort of flat tax one single rate for everybody. I'd get low income people off of it, but everybody else

would pay the straight 25, 26% of what you make and be done with all these complications and all these wealthy people who can hire all these accountants and lawyers to end up paying nothing. Well, so that's the critical question when people bring up a flat tax, which is okay. You deal with folks at the lower end by saying it's actually zero up until a certain point. But then the first question becomes, is there a single dollar number at which it goes from zero to twenty six? Because then that's the first thing people would game, to try to stay right below that, because zero to twenty six is a big difference. So so one one way around that is to just

incrementally raise it to a certain point. So it's no longer flat, is it? Then it's no longer flat, but it tops off at a rate. But I hear that concern and that's a concern I've always had. I'm not I'm less concerned about that than the multitude of rates that create the multitude of complication that people like you and I just can't take advantage of. So then the critical part really is at the top because effective these billionaires aren't paying 26 percent right now. So right now, if you do a flat tax that phases in at the bottom from zero, that's so it's already kind of progressive. Then what do you do at the top to prevent getting deductions and carry a lot of

interest, carry forwards and all these things? How do you really make a billionaire pay 26 percent effective? Because for most of them, that's an increase in what they pay. Well, so so and again, we're talking pie in the sky dreams. Of course, of course. Just remember, I'm I'm king of the world. Yes. If I put that number in there, that flat rate of 26, 27, 28 percent. Yeah. I would get rid of every deduction, every exemption, everything on the books, I'd remove all of it in my dream world. What about wages versus capital gains? That's another way, right? Which is, well, sure, it's 26 percent flat, but I can pay much less depending on what it is by not taking a salary as many of these guys don't. What do you do about that? I, uh, I, I've, I've always, uh,

this is such great stuff, David. Damn it. And I miss this stuff because we don't do this. I'd get rid of the capital gains tax. Just make it earn the same as income. Yeah. Yeah. Don't, don't, don't throw anything at me. I'd probably, I'd probably just, just count it as straight income and I'd get rid of the capital. I'd get rid of every exception and I would count everything as income. What's crazy about this plan is it's not very right wing, really. I mean, like as we talk through it, you're basically saying tax capital gains is income, which increases the amount rich people pay. Take away the loopholes in the deductions, which if you can get the very rich to pay

an effective rate of 26, they're actually paying more and just make it progressive from zero up to that 26 at the bottom. It's it's probably something a lot of left wingers would get behind. I mean, it doesn't sound bad to me. Would it in your mind, David, would it end up bringing in more revenue than what we're bringing in now? I don't know, but it sounds like it might. It might.

Yeah, that's the weird, funny thing is it actually might. Yeah. Policy, folks, we've been speaking. But by the way, David, neither political party is incentivized to go down that road. Absolutely. Absolutely. Former Republican Congressman Joe Walsh, you can hear him on white flag with Joe Walsh. Always great having you on.

Keep doing your thing, David. Thank you, man. Plastic is everywhere we look and not enough is being done about it. One hundred billion plastic bags are used and thrown away every year. But you can help make a change. Our sponsor, Hold On, makes trash and kitchen bags that are heavy duty, plant based, non-toxic and 100 percent home compostable, which means they break down in weeks rather than decades. They don't fill up our landfills. They don't pollute our oceans. Their zip seal kitchen bags come in sandwich or gallon bag sizes to fit your needs. And the best part about hold on bags is they work.

I use them at home. They're just as good as all of the name brand bags. You fill them up. They stretch and they don't break. Everybody uses trash bags and freezer bags. If you care about the planet, you can do something by using hold on bags instead. And it's a really easy way to do your part. The David Pakman Show David the code Pacman. The link is in the podcast notes. If you thought we had finally heard the last of failed Arizona gubernatorial Republican candidate Carrie Lake, you were wrong. She is continuing to make all sorts of outlandish claims about the things she's going to do to, I guess, try to steal an election she lost to Katie Hobbs, whose election win has been certified

and who, listen very carefully here, will be the governor of Arizona. Katie Hobbs will be the governor of Arizona. Kerry Lake will not be the governor of Arizona because Katie Hobbs got more votes. And that's the way the system works. That's a good thing. If the person who got the fewest votes became the governor, that would be a real problem. Kerry Lake seems, I guess, to have found an ally in Stephen Bannon. And here is Steve Bannon visibly struggling to cope with Kerry Lake's loss. And he's struggling so badly he starts making up words. If she had the receipts to show that she was legitimate, she would come forth and answer all this. All they're doing is obfuscating.

Obfuscating. Careful, careful, careful. Obfuscating. The reason is they ain't got the receipts. That's right. They understand that this election was stolen. Let me underline that five times. Stolen. They understand that this election was stolen. Let me underline that five times stolen. This really misunderstands burden of proof.

And this is a real classic from the right. They did this with 2020 as well. Well, we've got all these suspicious things that happened. Prove Joe Biden really won. That's the wrong burden of proof. Katie Hobbs got more votes and won. That's the wrong burden of proof. Katie Hobbs got more votes and won. No one has brought forward a bona fide legitimate challenge to that. Why does Katie Hobbs now need to do anything?

The election is over. The votes were counted. Carrie Lake and Steve Bannon and Trump and their cronies haven't been able to demonstrate that the person who won didn't really win. Katie Hobbs doesn't have to present anything to them. And this is a regular thing that they do flip the burden of proof. Here's Carrie Lake now defiant. They're not going to keep stealing elections.

Well, they haven't stolen any any carry. If they think they can continue to steal and rig elections, they are messing with the wrong people because if they don't think that they haven't done it, you don't stand up right now, Steve, and fight for this at this moment. I know people are tired, but this is the moment we need to get into the fight. Right. Because if we let them rig another election, it's game over. It's the country's. Let's not let them rig any more elections. I mean, they haven't rigged any.

So that's a good track record. And let's make sure that they don't start. These folks are completely delusional. Here's just one more clip. Just it's it's it's copium, my friends. Carrie Lake, who is let me be blunt. When you look at the analysis, you look at the data, you look at this lawsuit. Is the governor elect of Arizona?

She is not the governor elect of Arizona. She lost. Do you think Steve Bannon believes this crap for a second? I have a really hard time believing that he does. There's just no doubt she won this election. OK, and they've circled the wagons to protect Katie Hobbs. And this is going to be a battle royale because if there's going to be no battle, the election's been certified for Katie Hobbs. Katie Hobbs will be the governor. There's no battle other than in their minds.

If you're in for a penny, you got to be in for a pound here on this fight, right? And the fight is in Arizona and the fight is in Arizona today. Yeah, there's no fight. I mean, yes, they are submitting what they claim to be legal complaints and maybe some qualify as legal complaints. There is no fight in so far as Katie Hobbs will be sworn. I mean, I hate to even say it unless she's dead. Katie Hobbs will be sworn in as the governor. And that's it. That's the end of it. Ronna McDaniel is the chair of the Republican National Committee, and she is trying to beat off a challenge from Pillow. Mike Pillow is challenging Ronna McDaniel for the RNC chairship, chairpersonship. And McDaniel appeared on Fox News with Stuart Varney. And Varney, to his credit, asked a perfectly fine question, which is, you know, it didn't go that well for Republicans

in the November 8th, 2022 midterms. Does Trump bear some responsibility for that? And Ronna McDaniel did not like that question. Would you publicly say that Donald Trump bears any responsibility for the sum of the losses in the midterm elections? Would you say that publicly? I don't like this. I don't like these parceling out because he supported Ted Budd, who won, and he supported J.D. Vance, who won. I think there's a lot of things. That's why I've put

together. We're going to go back to that. That's an interesting statement. Action report. We've got to look at Dobbs. But here's the one thing that I think people should be talking about. The amount of ticket splitting, the amount of Republicans that went out and voted for Republican at the top of the ticket. Look at Arizona. The top vote getter is a Republican. Look at Georgia. We had eight of nine statewide races won by Republicans. But why are Republicans going and voting for one Republican and not the other? Because they put out uniquely disastrous candidates, disastrous candidates, people like Carrie Lake, people like Herschel Walker, Doug Mastriano, one of the most disastrous possible people that they that's why the ticket splitting is happening.

We have to work hard to bring those independence. And that means the answer is Trump, isn't it? I'm saying I'm not into the blame game right now. I think we've got to do. She's like, we've got to figure out why that happened. Well, here's one reason why it might have happened. Oh, yeah, but I don't want to be doing the blame game. You said you want the answer, but you don't want that answer. I guess analysis. I think it's too quick. And I think you can't parcel out. Well, this endorsement helped this one in this. It's the whole message. It's what did each candidate do? What was their turnout? But most importantly, how do we get independents to support Republicans? Yeah. I mean, listen, I say study it,

study it. But when you ask yourself, well, why did Brian Kemp win so easily in Georgia and Herschel Walker lost? Herschel Walker was a uniquely disastrous candidate. And by the way, he almost won like it. Fortunately, it didn't happen, but he almost won. The other I mean, listen, I don't know to what degree Ronna McDaniel is telling us what she really believes or she has to put on a face. Right. But McCain voters are not necessarily the types of people who are going to get behind Carrie Lake because Trump said vote Lake. So I don't know how you disassociate the MAGA candidate, even if you don't want to point to Trump specifically from some of these decisions that took place. And they talk about let's do an analysis, do an analysis. They'll never accept

the analysis if what it points to is Trump just really mess things up, or at least publicly they won't. We're going to continue having this conversation because it is a very interesting one. But I question to what degree they honestly want the actual answer. It seems increasingly the Republican voters have figured out the answer because we looked at that poll in the last segment or previous segment, which found that two thirds of Republicans don't want Trump to be the nominee. Those are pretty significant numbers. We have a voicemail number. That number is two one nine

to David P. Here's a funny thing. We heard about this at one point. I think it was actually people around Trump who would say things like, you know, Biden doesn't have the rally crowds and he doesn't have the live stream viewers and he doesn't have the Twitter followers. So how could he possibly have won? Here's a guy who called in very angry with me who has a Twitter based analysis of Biden versus Trump. Listen. Yes. My question to you is how many followers does Biden have on Twitter? Don't know. And how many followers does Trump have? I don't know. Maybe you should do your research and see who has more or times as many followers within a month or two.

And why would I care about that? And this idiot that's been in the White House for two years. OK, you're the biggest loser on TV right now. Maybe I am, but that doesn't have anything to do with who won in 2020. And I can argue every one of your points that you have nothing to back up your facts with. I encourage you to call in any time, sir. You just say things like the election was not rigged. This, that and the other, even though there's proof to the other side.

There's no poof. There's no poof nor proof. That it was. And that's not a fact. So you cannot bring that up as a fact. This is the burden of proof thing. They have not demonstrated with any evidence that we should distrust the results. The default is because elections have been happening successfully in the United States

for so long that when you see that Biden won by eight million votes, unless I have a reason to doubt that. Why would I question it? They have to present the evidence and they have not because that's your opinion. So stop your opinions because you're a loser and you're you're killing our country. You're killing our democracy. Yeah. January six rioters aren't the

ones killing democracy. Congressman Ralph Norman texting. We need martial law misspelled, by the way. They're not killing democracy. Me saying I think Biden really won. I'm killing democracy. And I think you should just get off the air right away. OK, well, let's do that right now. It's the end of the show. So I will get off the air. We've got a great bonus show for you today, though. We are going to talk about the pushing of anti-Semitism to the forefront, in particular by people like Kanye, Nick Fuentes. And yes, Trump has a role to play in that.

We're going to talk about that. NASA's Artemis one is back from the moon with hopes to get astronauts back there soon. We will talk about it. And will we ever go to Mars or NARS? We will talk about that as well. And yes, Sam Bankman freed the FTX founder has been arrested in the Bahamas. A Bahamian arrest has taken place. We will talk about everything that is going on. Make sure you're signed up for the bonusamas, a Bahamian arrest has taken place. We will talk about everything that is going on. Make sure you're signed up for the bonus show, folks. Oh, the bonus show where you want to make money.

Everybody else that makes money to fund themselves is bad. Pac-Man's a loser. That may be Alex, but the bonus show continues and no defamation suits with a billion dollars in money awarded against the bonus show. I'm very proud to say that you can sign up for a membership at join Pacman dot com. You can use the coupon code 24 starts now to get a discount. I'll see you on the bonus show. It's a great thing.