The David Pakman Show - 12/13/23: Stunning poll shocks voters, Fox hosts admit there's no evidence

Episode Date: December 13, 2023

-- On the Show: -- Shocking new poll from the Wall Street Journal says Nikki Haley would defeat Joe Biden by 17 if the election were held today -- 2024 Republican presidential candidate Nikki Haley has statistically tied Ron DeSantis for second place, but Donald Trump continues to gain in the polls -- Fox News hosts continue to admit there is no actual evidence against Joe Biden for impeachment or indictment, but does it matter anymore? -- Republican Senator Ron Johnson implodes when asked for evidence of 2020 election voter fraud by CNN anchor Kaitlan Collins -- 2024 Republican presidential candidate Ron DeSantis holds a CNN town hall which reminds everyone why he is losing -- In the latest humiliating move, failed former President Donald Trump is offering pieces of his used clothing to those who purchase his "digital trading cards" -- An analysis finds that Donald Trump lied every 12 seconds during a 5-minute portion of his recent Fox News town hall with propagandist Sean Hannity -- Republican Speaker of the House Mike Johnson says that God told him he would be a Moses-like figure, a claim indicative of mental illness by all normal standards -- Fox News host Bret Baier confronts MAGA Mike Johnson with his own prior statements about impeachment when the target was Donald Trump -- Voicemail caller confronts David, asking him when he will admit that Joe Biden is in trouble and his re-election is imperiled -- On the Bonus Show: George Santos in plea deal talks with prosecutors, the first AI-powered political campaign caller, the truth about cats, much more... 🔊 Babbel: Get 55% off your subscription at https://babbel.com/pakman 💪 Athletic Greens is offering FREE year-supply of Vitamin D at https://athleticgreens.com/pakman 🧻 Reel Paper: Code PAKMAN for 30% OFF + free shipping at https://reelpaper.com/pakman 🖼️ Aura Frames: Use code PAKMAN for $30 off at https://auraframes.com/pakman 🧠 Mindbloom: Use code PAKMAN for $100 off at https://mindbloom.com/pakman 💻 Stay protected! Try our sponsor Aura FREE for 2 weeks at https://aura.com/pakman 🪒 Henson Shaving: Use code PAKMAN for FREE blades at https://hensonshaving.com/pakman 🧠 Try Brain.fm totally free for a month at https://brain.fm/pakman -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

Speaker 1 today, we start with two polling related stories, both of which so many of you have been writing to me about saying, David, can this be true? What is happening in this election? What is happening in this Republican primary? What is happening to Joe Biden? Today's voicemail will also deal with this in some sort of more tangential way. So let's start first with the supposed shocking new poll, which says that Nikki Haley in a hypothetical matchup against Joe Biden defeats him by 17

points. Now, I've given a number of tools to the audience for figuring out what we should believe. And one of these tools is that in the data analysis that we do as we seek to critically analyze primary sources, as we do all of the different media literacy things that that we should be doing. At some point, you also want to introduce the question, does this pass the sniff test? And when you ask yourself, is it really a possibility that in a general election held today, Joe Biden would lose to Nikki Haley by 17 points in the national popular vote.

To me, this does not pass the sniff test, but let's be thorough. This is not a poll that has anything to do with the Republican primary. This is if Nikki Haley were the Republican nominee, if Joe Biden were the Democratic nominee, according to this new poll from The Wall Street Journal over the weekend, Nikki Haley is ahead. Fifty one to thirty four. If as as media tells us, if this were to become a reality, this would be the largest general election margin since 1984 when Ronald Reagan defeated Walter Mondale by 18 points. Now, of course, this would only be the matchup if Nikki Haley somehow defeated Donald Trump.

There's no evidence at this time that Nikki Haley is going to defeat Donald Trump in the primary. But let's kind of think it through. Is this even remotely plausible? Is it even remotely plausible? I think the answer would obviously be no. And part of the reason that the answer would be no is the economic situation. And I know that there are so many people who will write to me and say, David, if people don't know the economy is solid, if people don't believe the economy of solid is solid, if voters don't feel as though

the economy is solid, it doesn't really matter. Sure. Presidents get reelected when there's a good economy, but the voters need to know, feel or believe that there is a good economy. Fine. But enough people recognize that the economy is pretty solid, that it is so impossible to imagine that an incumbent president would lose by 17. Now, could Biden lose? Absolutely. There is no, you know, when I come to you and say usually when the economy is as it is today, presidents get reelected usually is not a rule, usually is not a definitive prediction. It's just 30,000 foot view. This is what we might expect. Now, the second question we should obviously ask in general when we see one poll that looks

different is what do the polling averages say? And there's a couple of different things we might look at first in terms of Trump versus Biden. It's Trump plus two point three. Now, I know that Haley versus Biden is a different question than Trump versus Biden. But the idea would be when you have a presidential election with an incumbent president up for reelection to a great degree, the election is a referendum on that president who is in the Oval Office at the time of the reelection seeking reelection. And so we would expect Trump versus Biden and Haley versus Biden to at least in some general sense track.

And if you look at an average of recent polls, it's Trump plus two point three. And very importantly, and this is maybe the most important thing to keep in mind in the Wall Street Journal poll, 51 to 34 represents only 85 percent of the vote. So not only does a 17 point margin for Nikki Haley seem unlikely by everything we know, a full 15 percent of respondents aren't yet sure, aren't yet committed to any candidate, or at least as of today, believe they would vote third party. And many of them, by the time Election Day comes around, will not. We know that third party candidates aren't going to get 15 percent in my estimation. So when you see 51 to 34, when you see Trump on average winning 47 to 44 and a half and

you realize, wow, there is almost 10 percent of the electorate missing there. The missing portion of the electorate in all of these polls is larger than the margin we've seen in the popular vote over the last many decades. So the important takeaway here is. Could Joe Biden lose to Trump? Absolutely. Could Joe Biden lose to Nikki Haley? Absolutely. This is why if you don't want that to happen, you have to make sure that you and everyone you know is planning to vote. Do we believe that if the election were held today, Nikki Haley would defeat Joe Biden by 17 points? I don't. And the reason I don't is doesn't pass the sniff test. The polls don't represent anywhere close to 100 percent of the electorate. It's 10 and a half months from the election and no other poll is telling us what this

one Wall Street Journal poll is. So on that poll, I would say doesn't really change the approach, which is this will likely be a close election. And if we want to do everything we can to prevent Trump or Haley from winning, we should ensure we're talking to people about voting and that we plan to vote. Now, the next part of this polling story, which we will deal with sort of separately, is the changing dynamics within the Republican primary. And this is getting super interesting.

Nikki Haley has done it. Nikki Haley has surged from behind Ron DeSantis and is now in a statistical tie for second place with DeSantis. This is so fascinating because the numbers were so dramatically different. Now, officially, we now have DeSantis 12.6, Haley 12.1. This is a half a point aggregate difference. It is a statistical tie. And what you will see sort of in the middle bottom of this chart that we have up on the screen, Ron DeSantis is the green line down the middle of the screen. And Nikki Haley is the red line which has surged to meet DeSantis. On the one hand, neither seems to have a shot at defeating Donald Trump, who is now officially polling over 60 percent among Republican voters.

Six out of 10 say I'm going to vote Trump. The other four out of 10 are divided up between the other candidates, mostly DeSantis and Haley. Rama Swami's dead. Christie never had a shot. OK, what does this tell us about the dynamics of the Republican primary? It tells us that if if if Donald Trump were to die, Nikki Haley would be very well positioned to be the nominee.

And the reinforcing evidence of this is number one, momentum. DeSantis is momentum is clearly down. Just wait until you see his town hall on CNN from last night. You'll understand why this guy is losing. And Nikki Haley's momentum is clearly up. But there's another aspect to this, which is that not all of the Republican primaries happen on the same day. And so if we look at the dynamics within these republic early Republican primaries, you see that in Iowa, Ron DeSantis is still in second place. But Nikki Haley is ever closer, ever closer, and now is within just four points of Ron DeSantis. I believe Nikki Haley will overperform in Iowa by the time the Iowa caucus comes around. My prediction is Nikki Haley ends up in second Iowa by the time the Iowa caucus comes around. My prediction

is Nikki Haley ends up in second place there. We then would go to the New Hampshire primary in the New Hampshire primary. Nikki Haley is already in a very solid second place. DeSantis isn't even in third place. He's down in fourth, basically in a two way tie with the vague Ramaswamy. Nikki Haley has gone from where was she, you know, three up to 14 and now up to 19. If she does well in Iowa, Nikki Haley will probably end up with 20 something in New Hampshire. Again, a strong second place. We then would go to South Carolina. South Carolina is Nikki Haley's home state. She was governor of South Carolina. She is already very strongly polling in second place there with double the support of DeSantis. She's got 20. DeSantis has 11. If she does well in Iowa, if she does well

in New Hampshire, I can only imagine she will overperform in her home state of South Carolina. Will she defeat Trump in any of these states? It certainly doesn't look like it, but she will be in a strong second place. And then we would go to Nevada, Nevada, and we don't have the polling is more than two months old there. So we continue to have really no idea what's going on there. DeSantis was winning in late September. I don't know what's going on now. My guess would be Haley is doing better than six. So we do not have a path for anybody to the Republican nomination other than Trump unless Trump dies. But it is becoming abundantly clear that the non Trump element of the Republican Party is coalescing around Nikki Haley. There are major donors who were donating to DeSantis and have stopped because

he's got loser written all over him. There were major donors who opted not to get involved yet. They wanted to see how it would shake out anti-Trump Republicans who are now saying, I'm going to get behind Nikki Haley. Is Nikki Haley a saner choice than Trump or DeSantis? Absolutely. Is she sane in the way that Chris Christie is sane? I would argue certainly not. And if I were voting in the Republican primary as a progressive, I would still be saying Chris Christie is the guy that I would say is going to do the least damage as president. The dynamics continue to be DeSantis failing, Nikki rising, Vivek dead in the water with more than 60 percent support behind Donald Trump. Why are they so committed to Trump? There are four or five

different answers to that, all of which we've discussed in the last few months. Will anything change other than a Trump death that could shake up this primary? Really hard to imagine. We have new polling that says most Republicans who currently support Trump would still support the guy even if he was convicted of a felony. And so I'm not seeing any data. And I'm primarily data driven with a let's put the sniff test on it as well. I'm not seeing any data that suggests anything short of Trump dying or becoming incapacitated would prevent him from getting the nomination.

That's where I am today. If you have a different perspective, I want to hear from you later in the show. Actually in the voicemail segment, we will get to why am I not sounding the alarm about Joe Biden to a greater degree than I have? We'll deal with that later. We'll take a quick break and be right back. products that are backed by science and that makes sense at the end of the day. That's what our sponsor AG1 is. It's really simple. Instead of taking dozens of different vitamins, potentially spending hundreds of dollars on them. What I do is before my morning cappuccino, I have a scoop of

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If you can imagine you will get two thirds discount, which is, I believe, a really great discount off of the cost of a membership. All right. Fox News hosts are increasingly admitting there is no evidence of criminality against President Joe Biden. My question to you is, does it even make a damn difference anymore? Eric Swalwell says it doesn't. Eric Swalwell says they are determined to impeach Joe Biden so that there will be parody. Trump was impeached. Biden was impeached. The idea being you take it off the table as a voting issue. But increasingly, even on Fox News hosts, anchors and guests are admitting a lot of conjecture, a lot of ledgers, a lot

of paperwork and copies of checks, but nothing actually linking Joe Biden to a crime. I would go even further. We don't even really have evidence in most of these claims that a crime has been committed by anyone, never mind that Joe Biden was involved in it. So let me remind you what we've been seeing yesterday. I played this clip for you. Here's Steve Doocy with his co-hosts looking like they're at a funeral. As he mentions this, Steve Doocy saying they haven't actually shown that Biden did anything that is against the law.

This is Fox News. My absolute if they have the stuff, I mean, the Republicans at this point don't have they've got a lot of ledgers and spreadsheets, but they have not connected the dots. They've connected the dots. The Department of Justice did on Hunter, but they have not shown where Joe Biden, you know, did anything illegally. That's exactly right. Do they care is a different question. But Steve Doocy is completely correct.

Apparently running slightly in the family, fellow Fox News reporter and Steve Doocy's son, Peter Doocy, also now pointing out yesterday the House Oversight Committee has been at this for years. They've been doing this since Joe Biden became president of the United States. They have no concrete evidence that Joe Biden had any profit motive from the business dealings of Hunter Biden. Does the apple not far fall far from the tree? I don't know. Listen to this.

The House Oversight Committee has been at this for years and they have so far not been able to provide any concrete evidence that Joe Biden personally profited from his son Hunter's overseas business. But they are going to try again with this impeachment inquiry that's set to start next week. And this is an important detail. They don't have the evidence and therefore they're launching an impeachment inquiry. They're launching an impeachment inquiry with the idea that maybe they can go fishing and find some evidence.

And this has been going on for a while now. So Fox News, you've got your propagandists at night, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham and others. They will play coy. They won't say we have the evidence, but they will certainly imply that their guests are making those claims, even though the guests never actually do. But for a while now, Republican elected officials, when you really press them, they admit they don't have evidence. Here is Nancy Mace. This was a couple of months ago to two, three months ago saying, I don't actually have any evidence, but we're looking for it.

But part of what we're doing is we're trying to find the evidence. Let me also ask you before you go, the impeachment inquiry that McCarthy announced, even though he had said he wouldn't do it without a vote. And then a few days later, he does it without a vote. I want to read you something that Ken Buck, one of your Republican colleagues, had to say in a Washington Post op-ed of the impeachment inquiry. He said impeachment is a serious matter and should have a foundation of rock solid facts. Trump's impeachment in 2019 was a disgrace to the Constitution and is a disservice to Americans.

The GOP's reprise in 2023 is no better. He says these allegations against the Biden family are part of an imagined history and a fictitious version of events. Was this premature going all the way with an impeachment inquiry? I don't believe so. The facts are everywhere. There are text messages, there are emails, there are witnesses, there are whistleblowers, there are meetings, there are phone calls, there are dinners. And you can't say- There were dinners, guys. Hey, there's a little bit of smoke, we're not gonna follow the fire. And the inquiry, my understanding is, as you said earlier, gives us expanded subpoena powers.

I want the bank records of Joe Biden, all of that should be on the table to prove out the allegations in the SARS reports. We're talking about a significant sum of money. We are talking about bribery and in the Constitution, Article two says we know they're talking about bribery. There just happens to be no evidence. For me, there's no there's no evidence of bribery. There are witnesses. Ten twenty three form. There are you know, and you've been investigating. You're on thebery. There are witnesses, the 1023 forum, there are, you know. And you've been investigating, you're on the oversight. There is evidence. I can't say that there's no evidence there when there is evidence. And quite frankly, there's no evidence. It was the fourth estate. It was the media journalists when Nixon was going down that helped do that investigation, helped bring

down the president when they when he broke the law. And, you know, you guys want to deny that there's evidence. It's everywhere. And the bank records will prove it out. All right. We will see. I haven't seen much yet. Notice she didn't cite it. There are dinners dinners that prove what? There are bank records which which show what when they're pressed, they can't cite evidence. Here's another example. This is supposedly reasonable Republican Michael McCaul. He also says, well, listen, we don't actually have evidence, but maybe someday we'll find it right. Well, first of all, I've been tasked by the speaker to assist the oversight and

government reform with respect to foreign policy decisions the president may have made or vice president at that time with respect to money coming in to try to tie the two. We don't have the evidence now, but we may find it later. They may find it later, but they want to do the impeachment inquiry now. Do the impeachment inquiry now without the evidence. Maybe the evidence will stumble into our laps. I could play these clips all day. I'll play one more for you. This one's new. This is Congressman Tom Tiffany being interviewed by Maria Bartiromo. She says, what's the most damning piece of evidence? This is she's like teeing it up. Give us the meat. Give us the what? What is

the the most incriminating fact you can give us? And he just rehashes debunked stuff about Burisma, which, of course, doesn't have anything to do with Joe Biden. This is the best he can do. What do you think is the most damning piece of evidence? I think the most damning piece of evidence is the $5 million that came from Burisma that really kicked this whole thing off because president then Vice President Biden confirmed it in an interview. He said, yeah, I shut down that investigation that Shokin was doing in in the Ukraine. And there was $20 million that followed that. Yeah. In the Ukraine, still using that outdated term.

Remember that there has been no link whatsoever to Joe Biden related to those business dealings. So my question to you isn't do you think that there's any evidence here that they've presented? Because if you look at this honestly, the answer is obviously they have presented no evidence. My question to you right now is, does it matter that there's no evidence if they claim there is Republican voters seem increasingly OK with doing this, even with no actual evidence? Will it backfire? I believe there is a good chance that it will.

They believe getting an impeachment on the record of Joe Biden helps Trump in 2024. Where do you come down? Let me know. I'm going to play for you now. Probably one of the most remarkable clips in months that we've had. Senator Ron Johnson, a Republican, loves going on Fox News and being interviewed by Maria Bartiromo, where she asks questions that are easy and he answers them with lies and nobody questions him.

Well, he went on CNN the other night and was interviewed by Caitlin Collins. Now, Caitlin Collins, I am not presenting her as God's gift to journalism, but she does a really good job here when he says, oh, fake slates of electors like Trump did. Everybody does that. And she goes really where? And he's like, well, I can't name any of the states. She goes, well, what evidence do you have that anything like this has ever happened? And he says, well, check the books. And she says, what books? And he doesn't have any

books to cite. This is truly remarkable stuff. And what I want you to pay really close attention to is how simple the questioning is. She's not doing anything extraordinary other than saying, oh, give me the evidence for the claims that you're making. My favorite moment is the what books moment. Take a look at this. Settle in for this one. It's a good one. Speaker 1 Do you think that he should resign from that given the role he played in the fake elector scheme? Speaker 3 No. Again, there was an active court case. There are all kinds of irregularities in Wisconsin in the 2020 election. In order to make sure that the case just wasn't determined to be moot, they had to have an alternate slate of electors, just like Democrats have done

repeatedly in all kinds of different states. There was nothing untoward about what they did. There was nothing illegal about what they did. They were just an alternate slate of electors. They were going to court. They had $2.4 million on the line in damages if they lost this case at trial. That's why they took this deal. But to say, you're saying that they did nothing wrong?

I realize Democrats have used the civil courts to harass these poor individuals. It's unfortunate. It's a travesty. But that's what Democrats do. They view politics as these poor individuals. It's unfortunate. It's a travesty. But that's what Democrats do. They view politics as a blood sport. It was unfortunate. These folks did nothing different than what many Democrats have done in many states. They certainly did, Senator.

I mean, there were multiple slates of fake electors, including in your home state. They're acknowledging that they were playing a role in trying to improperly overturn the election. That's what they said. They got themselves out of a nuisance lawsuit. They agreed to get to settle a nuisance lawsuit that never should have been brought. So you think it's fine that someone... It's a travesty of justice. You think it's fine that someone who tried to overturn a legitimate election is still on a board that helps to summarize?

Democrat electors have done that repeatedly. Democrats have done that repeatedly. Democrats have done Democrats have done the same thing. It was fake slates of electors. No, it's happened in different states. I'm prepared to give you the exact states, but it's happened. It's happened. Repeat.

He's not able to tell us a single other place where it happened. But Democrats are doing this stuff all the time. Now here comes the book line, which I love. It has happened repeatedly. Just go check the books. Which books? I mean, there have been often. Check the books, right? I mean, just check them. Check the books. It's all over the books. Can you name a single book? I don't know. I don't even really read books, to be honest, Caleb. Electors in our history. Again, you didn't. This wasn't what this interview is going to be about. I'll come and I'll provide you the information. But I look forward to I look forward to your office sending that information. We'll publish it if it's accurate. Yeah. Please have your office send us the list of books where it talks about Democrats using

fake slates of electors all the time to try to steal elections that they didn't win. Give us that. This is a guy who is used to Maria Bartiromo and nothing is questioned with Maria Bartiromo when you are Ron Johnson. And all of a sudden, simple questions like which states, when, what books are considered attacks? like which states, when, what books are considered attacks. It's considered CNN's Caitlin Collins being some kind of biased or unfair reporter when all she's doing is doing her job. Who, what, where, why, when you're talking about X, give us the evidence for X. Now,

if there's a criticism here of Caitlin Collins, she could have been clearer in her pushback. She left the door open to believing that maybe Ron Johnson has such evidence that he could provide. The reality is, if it were me doing it, I would have said, so you made these claims and you actually have no evidence to back them up. Just to be clear, you can't cite any of the evidence. You're saying you'll send it to me later. I've never seen such evidence.

You're unable to cite evidence. That's what you're saying. I would have been tried to be more clear about that. But this is how these folks need to be talked to. Now, Johnson is right in one sense. We did see fake elector schemes beyond just Wisconsin, but they were MAGA fake electors plotting to steal elections that Joe Biden won in order to get the electoral votes to count for Donald Trump. It wasn't just Wisconsin. He's right.

But it was not Democrats. It doesn't happen all the time. And I've not been able to find any books in which you're going to find evidence of that. If you need a reminder as to why Ron DeSantis is failing badly, like a wounded bird falling from the sky. You need only look at last night's CNN town hall. CNN has announced the number of town halls. They're doing one with Vivek Ramaswamy, maybe others. They did one last night with Ron DeSantis. This guy is so milquetoast and so strange in the way he relates to the interviewers and the people in the crowd.

And he even in it, I'm going to play this first clip where here he is getting tough on Trump. It's the mildest criticism of Trump. Even if you're watching this, he's not even making the case for voting for him over Trump. It's so milquetoast. It's so uninspiring. And there's a reason his polling has gone from 31 to 12. And you'll see it right here. Over the weekend, Donald Trump compared the bravery of those who have served in the military with his decision to debate Hillary

Clinton in 2016 after the Access Hollywood tape came out. And you tweeted about it. You seem defended by it. So Donald Trump, so he's, when he gets off the teleprompter now, you don't know what he's going to say. It's a different Donald Trump than 15 and 16. Back then he was colorful, but it was really America first about the policies. Now a lot of it's about him. And when he's doing this and says that, by the way, this is a classic thing elected officials do when they used to support someone and now they're running against them. They say it's the other person that has changed.

The reality is it's been the same self-centered Trump since day one. Debating Hillary Clinton after Access Hollywood was like an example of bravery that some general told him was was more significant than soldiers who fight and die in war. That is offensive and that is wrong. Debating is the bare minimum that a political candidate should do. And I would note Donald Trump has refused to debate throughout this campaign. He doesn't think he owes it to Iowans. He doesn't think he owes it to Iowans. He doesn't think he owes it to granite staters. Isn't he so courageous, Ron DeSantis, for calling out Trump?

And you can just he's just projecting such strength. Here's another attempt from DeSantis in a sort of muddled way, says part of the inflation of the covid era was Trump's fault. So say this. I think the first three years of the Trump administration, the economy is better than it has been. But that last year with COVID, I think was mishandled dramatically. Shutting down the country was a huge mistake. Printing trillions and trillions of dollars was a huge mistake. That set the foundation for the inflation that we see. Granted, Biden came in and poured gas on the fire.

It was reckless that he did trillions. But if you look, you have trillions and trillions of dollars. Of course, you're paying more for that. You're going to have to listen again. This is such a weak critique of Trump. And this is all the Santantis is willing to do. There was global inflation in Western developed nations during that phase of the pandemic. Did Trump in some way foment it? Sure.

But was Trump what was Trump's policy of the stimulus out of line with what any Western developed country that could afford to do it was trying to do? No. And this is, again, just around the edges. Issue a full throated criticism of Trump not even caring about democracy and the Constitution. Do that, Ron, rather than these weak. Well, he had a little bit to do with the inflation that we had. Ron DeSantis asked about religion and the satanic temple and the story we talked about yesterday on the bonus show where in Iowa, Republicans are fine with Christian displays on city property,

but not Satanic Temple displays because it's religious freedom for Christians, but not necessarily for anybody else. And I guess based on what DeSantis is saying here, he thinks the only acceptable religions are the ones that the founding fathers said. Here's our list of acceptable religions, which is not the way the Constitution works wrong. So it's interesting. I heard this and then I was like, well, how did it get there?

Is that even a religion? And lo and behold, the Trump administration gave them approval to be under the IRS as a religion. So that gave them the legal ability to potentially do it. So I don't know what the legislature, what they have, they analyzed it, but it very well may be because of that ruling under Donald Trump that they may have had a legal leg to stand up. My view would be that's that's not a religion that the founding fathers were trying to create. But I do think that IRS ruling, I was really surprised to see that they did that.

You know, I may just not have the reading comprehension skills to understand it. In my view, it was the Constitution that guaranteed freedom of or from religion, period. No approved list of religions or anything like that. But apparently Ron's reading of the Constitution is a little bit different. And of course, it is yet another way in which these Republicans are all about the Constitution until it's no longer convenient. One last pathetic clip from DeSantis's town hall. DeSantis was asked about Kate Cox, who's the woman who is looking at leaving. I believe it's Texas in order to obtain an abortion. And DeSantis won't actually

comment on the case, which is the real impact of these anti-abortion laws, the likes of which he has signed in Florida. And he just brags about his anti-abortion credentials. I want to ask you about a big story dealing with abortion that's in the news. Yesterday, the Texas Supreme Court ruled that a pregnant woman in Texas could not obtain an abortion after her fetus was diagnosed with a genetic disorder called Trisomy 18. It's almost always a fatal condition. Now, her lawyer said that carrying the fetus to term could compromise her future fertility and also put her life in danger. Do you think the law should require a woman in that kind of difficult position to carry the baby to term. Super specific question.

Should she be forced to carry the baby to term despite the fact that it is essentially a fatal condition? Will he answer? No. We got to approach these issues with compassion because these are very difficult issues and nobody would wish this to happen on anybody. But if you're in that situation as a mother, that's an incredibly difficult thing to have to deal with.

What I can tell you is in Florida, the Florida legislature passed a heartbeat bill that contained exceptions for things like rape, incest, life of the mother, fatal fetal defect in victim of human trafficking. And so I signed that bill. Those are very difficult cases. And they made a prudential judgment that having those exceptions were things that made sense. So I have signed legislation that included that. And I understand they're very difficult. And these things get a lot of press attention, I understand. But that's a very small percentage that those exceptions cover. There's a lot of other situations where we have an opportunity to realize really good human potential. And we've worked to protect as many lives as we could in Florida.

So not really dealing as he smacks his lips, not really dealing with this particular case. And remember that Ron DeSantis first did sign a bill denying abortion access to victims of rape and incest. He then signed a bill to make abortion illegal starting at six weeks before many women, many, many women even know that they are pregnant. So what we find is that there is really nothing to this guy. He is spineless and he is milk toast. And even his criticisms of the guy that's crushing him are still so bland. I don't know if he's running for VP. I don't know what this guy's thinking of doing. I don't think he has any shot at being Trump's VP. But if you watched last night's town hall, you know why this guy's losing. Anxiety and depression are mental health challenges that affect millions of Americans.

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You can restrict apps or manage screen time, set focus time to make sure they're doing homework instead of binging YouTube or whatever the case may be. You can try aura for free for 14 days at aura.com slash Pacman. That's a U R a.com slash Pacman. The link is in the podcast notes. Failed former president Donald Trump hitting a new low. He is now selling little pieces of his own used clothing. I know it sounds unbelievable. I know that a former president is selling or giving away raffling off pieces of his clothes. But this is exactly what the guy is doing. Donald Trump announcing yesterday, I guess the final digital Trump trading cards. And one of the aspects of this is that you can get little pieces of the suit that Trump supposedly wore on the day of that famous mugshot, which Trump claims is priceless. They're going to cut up Trump's suit and send you a piece of his used clothing.

Folks, look at what is happening. It's a complete and total humiliation. Take a look at this video of Trump announcing this. How do you make a parody of this? This is the parody. Real life is satire. One. This is your favorite president, Donald J. Trump, with some very exciting news. My last two Trump digital trading card collection sold out in just hours. And now I'm back with my latest series called the mugshot edition. I wonder where that came from. The mugshot edition.

Forty seven all new stunning cards. And here is the best part. I'm where that came from. The mugshot edition. 47 all new stunning cards. And here is the best part. I'm doing two important things for my Trump collectors. For the first time, we're creating a real physical Trump card. Purchase 47 digital cards and we'll mail you a beautiful trading card. You have to buy 47. Then you'll get one free in the mail. It is an authentic piece of the suit I wore when I took that now famous mugshot and it was a great suit. Believe me, a really good suit. It's all cut up and you're going to get a piece of it.

You're going to get a piece of Trump's used clothing. This is not a parody. This is real. You'll get a piece of Trump's used clothes. Autographing some of them. A true collector's item. This is something to give to your family, to your kids. Imagine giving your kids, hey, kids, you know, we've done our estate planning.

We've done our will. I want you to know that mommy and daddy are putting some money in trust for you. There's going to be a little bit for education. There's going to be a little bit for education is going to be a little bit to, you know, to pay for the burial. And then we are also giving you some incredible family heirlooms. A piece of Donald Trump's used clothing is going to be part of our estate to you. Can you imagine and children with the purchase of 47 of the Trump digital trading cards. You will also be invited to join me for a gala dinner at my beautiful Mar-a-Lago, my home in Florida. You've perhaps

heard of it. It's become a pretty famous place. We just had our first dinner for my collectors, and we had a lot of fun together. That was a great evening. That was a fantastic evening. Some people call these cards pop art or modern art. I wish I looked as good as I do on those cards that I can tell you. They give me muscles where, believe me, I don't have them. I wanted to keep my Trump digital trading cards at the same price, ninety nine dollars each. So go to collect Trump card. It's really easy to buy. All right. Guys, it's Trump posting about it due to the great excitement and success of my previous Trump digital trading cards.

We're doing it again. Mugshot edition available now. Plus by 47 cards and get a piece of the suit I wore for the mugshot photo. How how do you how will history look back at this? How will historians, if they even deal with this bizarre period in American history, how do you summarize in a concise and intelligible way what we experienced, what we saw, what we dealt with? It's beyond belief that this is what Donald Trump is doing, but he's doing it. If anybody in my audience gets a piece of Trump's used suit, let me know. No word on whether he'll offer up little confetti sized pieces of his boxers, but that's probably

if he gets even more desperate to pay for his legal fees. There was a very interesting analysis done of the Donald Trump town hall on Fox News with Sean Hannity last week. And there was a five minute segment of that town hall during which Trump was analyzed to have lied every 12 seconds. Glenn Kessler for The Washington Post did this analysis every 12 seconds. Donald Trump lied. I'm going to play. We're not going to do the whole thing. I won't subject you to it. I'm going to play a little bit of this five minute segment and just start to look at the speed with which the lies start coming. Here we go. President Donald Trump, let me let me just throw out a list of some of the significant issues that

we're facing as a country. And you've touched on a number of them. You mentioned borders day one. You mentioned energy day one. Look at where our economy is. Last year, $2 trillion in debt, $34 trillion overall. We, this year, Mr. President, will pay, before we spend a dime, $1 trillion on debt service alone before Medicare, Social Security, national defense. That is unsustainable. Yeah. So before COVID hit us, our gift from China, that was our gift. What happened to us with COVID, commonly known as the China virus. They don't. OK, it's not commonly known as the China virus. First lie. Trump says that nobody else around the world says it. Almost no one in the United States says it. First lie like that.

But it was a China virus. We were doing energy, taking our liquid gold out of the ground at a rate that's never been seen before. And it was going up. This is extraordinarily misleading. As as Kessler writes, Trump takes credit for this, even though this was actually started under Obama and there was expanded fracking and drilling under Obama. It had nothing to do with Trump. A lot of those projects were simply producing more

under Trump. Trump didn't do anything to actually change that. We were going to be using that liquid gold to sell to Europe instead of the pipeline from Russia, which I exposed and I stopped. Another lie from Trump. Trump did not expose that pipeline, as Kessler writes in the piece we'll link to Nord Stream two is a Russian pipeline would have doubled the export of Russian natural gas to Germany. Trump didn't expose it. Even the Biden administration and former policymakers objected to it. Trump's just lying.

You know, I stopped that line. Then they say I was nice. That's another lie. Trump did not stop that lie. Congress imposed some sanctions temporarily stopping it for one year. There was nobody that was nice. I was not nice to Russia. That's another lie.

Trump was actually one of the few American presidents that so regularly sided with Vladimir Putin. I stopped that pipeline. We would have been selling oil and gas to Europe, to Asia, all over the world. We would have been paying off debt. That's another lie. We would would have been paying off debt. That's another lie. We would not have been paying off debt. Remember, Trump ran on we will pay off the national debt in four years. It didn't happen. It actually got worse. And it is completely untrue that were it for Trump,

we would have been paying off debt. Another we're only a minute in folks and we're what, six or seven lies in debt would be way down right now because we have more. What people don't know. We have more liquid gold than any other country in the world by far. That is another lie. According to the EIA, the reserves of the US are 10th in the world, not number one. And we started off in fourth place. We were number four with Saudi Arabia, was Russia.

It was two countries fighting for number three. And it was us at number four or five. That's another lie. Trump seems to be now talking not about reserves, but crude oil production. And in fact, it is not true that we used to be four or five. And then everything Trump is saying here is a lie. By the time I left, we were number one by 25 percent. We would have been number one by 100 and we would have done twice. That's another lie. It's an extraordinary exaggeration. And oil production actually went down because the pandemic cut consumption. It wasn't up. It was down. What they were going to do combined, we would have been paying off debt and we would have been

that's what I want to ask. We gave you the biggest tax cut in the history of our country, bigger than the Reagan tax cut. We would have been reducing. OK, it's another lie. Even though the audience liked this one, Trump's tax cut was zero point nine percent of GDP. Not that I'm cheering for larger tax cuts, but it's a lie. Reagan's tax cut was bigger. Trump's tax cut was the eighth biggest, which sounds a lot less hot, doesn't it?

So we're a minute and forty five seconds in Trump lying every 12 seconds during this five minute stretch of the town hall. Incredible because you can't even keep up with it. This is the it's not news that Trump lies. The takeaway is the audience. These people you see here, they don't know any better. They don't know the difference. They're not going to fact check it. Do you think they realize that in that minute and forty five seconds, Trump lied to them eleven times or nine times or whatever it was. They don't.

And that's because it no longer matters. We're going to link to the fact check on this. I have to admit, it's extraordinarily depressing, extraordinarily depressing stuff. And I don't know how we deal with it. I'll admit, I just don't know. I've had such trouble finding a great razor where I am not cutting myself or getting those nicks on my skin, which are so common with the cheap disposable razors. You have to meet our sponsor, Henson Shaving. Henson actually manufactures parts for the International Space Station and the Mars rover. And they are bringing that exact same precision engineering to the shaving experience. It hurts when you shave because blades extend too far and thus they wobble slightly. But with their aerospace grade CNC

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code Pacman. The link is in the podcast notes. When I'm working on the show or doing stuff on my computer, staying focused and getting in the zone is super important. It's not always easy. I would try Spotify or YouTube playlists. I'd end up actually more distracted than focused. And then someone told me about Brain FM's Focus Music, which is actually made by scientists working with musicians specifically to help you focus. I tried it and it worked really well for me, which is why I asked them to be a sponsor. With Brain.fm, I just feel more productive and focused, easier to start on difficult work, easier to stay focused without getting distracted and do that

really important deep work that I love to talk about. The team behind Brain.fm actually won a National Science Foundation grant related to ADHD. And the app includes a special mode just for ADHD if you need it. They even have amazing sleep sounds that I've started using at night. You can try Brain.fm totally free for an entire month. Just go to brain dot FM slash Pacman. The link is in the podcast notes. Let's talk a little bit about the Republican speaker of the House, MAGA Mike Johnson. I'm going to play something for you. I'm going to approach it with an open mind. It seems as though there is some mental illness here, but I'm going to play something for you. I'm going to approach it with an open mind.

It seems as though there is some mental illness here, but I want you to tell me are the sort of beliefs that Mike Johnson professes in what I'm going to play for you. Are they a form of mental illness or do we give it an exemption because they are so-called religious views? Here is a clip where Mike Johnson is speaking to Christian nationalists. Christian nationalists, of course, believe and desire that their religion, Christianity, governs civil law. In other words, that the country and our government overtly and officially be a Christian country where Christian religious doctrine governs what is law and how government operates. They're extremely dangerous people. Everything they want happens to also be unconstitutional. In this clip, you will hear MAGA Mike Johnson say that before he became speaker of the House,

God spoke to him and told him he is going to be a Moses like figure who will lead the country through a Red Sea moment. I suggest to you that were these claims made in any context other than a religious one, we would say these are mental illness delusions. This could be paranoid schizophrenia. This could be right. We would we would say psychiatry must deal with this. Are there medications? But when you say it in the religious context, there's an exception, I guess, where people say, no, this isn't mental illness. Listen to it. Tell me what you think. et c'est pour moi, parce que, par exemple, on a un projet de travail, on a un projet de travail, on a un projet de travail, on a un projet de travail, on a un projet de travail, on a un projet de travail, on a un projet de travail, on a un projet de travail, on a un projet de travail, on a un projet de travail,

on a un projet de travail, on a un projet de travail, on a un projet de travail, on a un projet de travail, on a un projet de travail, on a un projet de travail, on a un projet de travail, on a un projet de travail, Right. So listen, there's a lot going on here. OK. And I am not pretending to diagnose this guy with anything. But what he's describing sounds like a mental health emergency. It sounds like acute psychosis, paranoid delusions, schizophrenia, except when you say that it's the Lord coming to you in the middle of the night and saying these things. Society includes exceptions. And this is an issue that the world of mental health has dealt with for a long time. Listen to what the guy saying. One of the hallmarks of delusional or paranoid thinking is called ideas of reference and ideas of reference is you start to take take innocuous or everyday occurrences or things others say and believe that they have a really specific and directed meaning to you. I've spoken before about a couple of times we've received really sad messages from people in the

audience who say, David, I'm picking up on the messages that you're sending to me by blinking your eyes in Morse code. And it's a sad thing. I don't know how multiple people stumbled across this, but there's been a few people, three or four in the time I've been doing the show where people write in and they believe that while I might be talking to you about Mike Johnson, the pattern of my eyes blinking is Morse code. And I am sending a specific message to an individual in the audience. That's an example of an idea of reference, that there's all these things you're picking up on and they relate to you. And this is a characteristic of paranoid thinking. It can be a symptom of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, severe depression. Mike Johnson gets an exception because he says, well, it's it's religious.

Main character syndrome is another one. This is more colloquial. It's less clinically defined. But this is the idea that individuals see themselves as a central figure in all of life's events. They are the protagonist in some sense. And it can be a sort of grandiose delusions, egocentric, egotistical type behavior. And again, the idea that as he was one of however many possible speakers in the middle of the night, God woke him up and said, you're going to be a Moses like figure. There's going to be a Red Sea moment, et cetera. These are distortions of reality. These are distortions of self-perception with different clinical significance and different

manifestation. Is this mental illness? I mean, I'll just say it that way. There are to be thorough, right? There are views from the mental health world that the reason we don't consider these mental illness when they are religiously based is that they don't always negatively affect one's experience. If you believe that the CIA is after you and you're screaming about it on the subway platform at Union Station as you wait for the train, it is having an acute negative effect on your day to day. And one of the arguments that's made in defense of these types of beliefs not being mental illness is that they're not acutely negatively affecting you day to day. But the guy thinks he's Moses. And I would say that that's negative. So

let me know what you think. Brett Baier, by the way, did confront Maga Mike Johnson back in 2019. Maga Mike believed that under the rubric of the Trump impeachments, there was not enough evidence. It was inappropriate. You shouldn't be impeaching people so easily. And yet now he's saying we should impeach Joe Biden. Brett Baier presenting Mike Johnson with the contrast. And here's how he addressed it. Exactly four years ago. This is Representative Mike Johnson. The founders of this court country warned against a single party impeachment for good reason. They feared that it would bitterly and perhaps irreparably divide our nation. As the next election in 2020 is drawing so close now and their candidates for president are so terribly

weak, they obviously met somewhere at liberal high command about 75 days ago and convinced Nancy Pelosi they had to pull the trigger. I hope and pray that future Congresses can and will exercise greater restraint. So the moderates in your caucus would say, why not exercise greater restraint now? Well, we've shown great restraint. I mean, there are a lot of people who are frustrated that this hasn't moved faster, but there's a big distinction. I stand by every word I said in that video. There's a big distinction between what's happening now and what the Democrats do. There is. Let's see what he thinks the distinction is. Those were those are rushed sham impeachments. They did it quickly.

They did not follow any of the procedures that I just described. We have three committees investigating this and following the truth where they lead and they have no no no option in doing anything else. It's ways and means judiciary and oversight. And they've uncovered some alarming facts about the Biden family and their dealings. Yeah. You know, he's not wrong. There is a major difference between the Trump impeachments and the Biden impeachments. One of the differences is that there was evidence for the Trump impeachments. But he argues that the fact that it's taking them a while to impeach Biden is evidence that they're doing it right. The reason it's taking them a while to impeach Joe Biden is they have no evidence. They just keep looking and looking and looking and they can't find it. They are not taking their time

because they are being diligent. They're taking their time because there is no evidence. And I guess they prefer to have some evidence to impeach Biden, whether ultimately they will do it anyway without the evidence remains to be seen. Brett Baier trying to present him with his own hypocritical words. He had an explanation. The explanation, sadly, is riddled with lies. We have a voicemail number called 2 1 9 2 David P. If you have anything to say, here is a caller who says I'm pussyfooting about Joe Biden. This I have to hear. Hey, Dave, how are you?

I'm just looking at the metrics here on on the polls going through with some diligence to cross. By the way, I would mute whatever you have in the background when you call, but I think we're going to be able to hear. I'm not sure why you won't like address the severity of the Biden situation. I don't know. I'm with change. I can't see this guy winning. And I'm wondering why you're kind of pushy footing around this issue. And my question is, at what point are you going to say we're in really deep trouble? Is it February when things haven't changed?

Is it April when you convict those with felony and it doesn't change? Or do we ride this notion that the polls are wrong right up until October? No, we did. This is absolutely fair question. Completely fair question. If in October the average of polls says that Trump is up 10 points on Biden, I am not going to pretend like all as well. The the things I need to see before I am ready to declare that Joe Biden is dead in the water. Number one, they both need to officially

be the nominees. Biden is all but officially the nominee. There's not a real primary on the Democratic side. There is a real primary on the Republican side, although Trump is winning easily. But at minimum, before I'm going to take hypothetical polling seriously, we need to have officially who were the nominees or at least everybody's dropped out. Right. They won't make Trump officially the nominee until the convention over the summer. But by March, it might be clear that there's nobody else left. And Trump's got this thing wrapped up. So first of all, the polling needs to be looked at once we have officially

determined the nominees. Number two, if the economy goes into the toilet between now and November, that's going to be a disaster for Joe Biden. So another fair question, David, what will it take for you to sound the alarm if the if the stock market dives, unemployment goes way up, inflation starts going up again, wages stagnate. If those things happen, that will be a real problem for Joe Biden. And I will tell you when that happens, but that's not what the numbers say right now. And then number three, we need to start getting to the point where the polling is reflective of more than 85 percent of the electorate. When you see Trump 44, Biden 41, and you go, that's 85 percent of the electorate. Where's the other 15? That is not polling that I look at and say this is definitely what things are going to look like in November. As we get closer to November, you will see that X factor, the non Trump, non Biden portion

of the polling decrease, and then the polling will also become more reliable. And by the way, these are not special metrics for 2024. This is the way I've looked at general election polling in 2020, 2016, 2012. There's nothing special here. So as I said on election night in 2020, I'll let you know when it's time to panic. I am not yet ready to panic for the reasons I just told you. We have a great bonus show for you today. Sign up at join Pacman dot com.

Get instant access to the bonus show. I'll see you then.