The David Pakman Show - 12/20/23: Trump banned from CO ballot, crime down but right wing won't tell you

Episode Date: December 20, 2023

-- On the Show: -- Robert Sapolsky, scientist and New York Times bestselling author of "Determined: A Science of Life without Free Will," joins David to discuss the book, free will, science, and more. Get the book: https://amzn.to/3GQqBKP -- Failed former President Donald Trump is banned and kicked off of the 2024 Colorado presidential ballot for his role inciting an insurrection in 2021 -- Donald Trump is wildly triggered over being kicked off of the Presidential ballot in Colorado -- Dan Patrick, the Republican Lieutenant Governor of Texas, threatens to remove President Joe Biden from the ballot in Texas after Donald Trump is removed from Colorado -- After Donald Trump is kicked off of the Presidential ballot in Colorado, right wingers lose their minds -- 2024 Republican presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy pledges to withdraw from the Colorado Republican primary over their banning of Donald Trump from the ballot -- Despite crime's continued decline, right wing media including Fox News continues to suggest and imply that crime is up -- Failed former President Donald Trump struggles to speak and denies reading Mein Kampf at an absurd rally in Waterloo, Iowa -- Republican Senator Ted Cruz delivers as bizarre and disgusting speech at Charlie Kirk's TP Action event, including providing sex advice to liberals -- Voicemails pour in lauding the new David Pakman Show music -- On the Bonus Show: Legal groups file lawsuit to stop Texas law that makes illegal entry a crime, New York will set up commission to consider reparations for slavery, dozens of documents naming Jeffrey Epstein's victims will be made public in 2024, much more... 🔊 Babbel: Get 55% off your subscription at https://babbel.com/pakman 📰 Straight Arrow News: Download the FREE app at https://straightarrownews.com/pakman 🍷 Naked Wines: Use code PAKMAN to get 6 bottles for $39.99 at https://nakedwines.com/pakman 💪 Athletic Greens is offering FREE year-supply of Vitamin D at https://athleticgreens.com/pakman 🛌 Use code HELIXPARTNER20 for 20% off + free bedroom set at https://helixsleep.com/pakman 🧻 Reel Paper: Code PAKMAN for 30% OFF + free shipping at https://reelpaper.com/pakman 🖼️ Aura Frames: Use code PAKMAN for $30 off at https://auraframes.com/pakman -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

There are only so many major political stories a year and a decade, and one of them is happening right now. Failed former President Donald Trump has been banned from running for president in the state of Colorado. This court decision coming down yesterday. We will talk about what the court said, why Trump has been banned. Trump's reaction, the reaction of other Republican candidates, the reactions of right wing media. And of course, what comes next?

Because this is an extraordinary moment in American history. This has not happened before to a president of the United States. So let's start with the decision. This coming out yesterday, number 23, S.A. 300 Anderson v. Griswold, election law, 14th Amendment, First Amendment, political questions, hearsay. In this appeal from a district court proceeding under the Colorado election code, the Supreme Court considers whether President Donald J. Trump may appear on the ballot on the Colorado Republican presidential primary ballot in 24. A majority of the court holds this is a four to three 24. A majority of the court holds this

is a four to three decision. A majority is the majority opinion. A majority of the court holds that President Trump is disqualified from holding the office of president under Section three of the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution because he is disqualified. It would be a wrongful act under the election code for the Colorado secretary of state to list him as a candidate on the presidential primary ballot. The court stays its ruling until January 4th, subject to further appellate proceedings. And there will indeed be further appellate proceedings. This may even get all the way up to the Supreme Court. The Denver Post reporting on this Colorado Supreme Court bars

Donald Trump from the state's ballot in twenty twenty four, ruling he is disqualified by January 6th actions. Legal challenge, which alleges Trump engaged in insurrection, is likely headed to the United States Supreme Court. This is extraordinary. Now, the reason here we've talked about it before, but it bears mentioning again, Section three of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution says that if you engaged in or incited or abetted an insurrection in the United States, you cannot hold elected office. There was a debate because Section 3 14th Amendment doesn't specifically mention that it applies to the presidency. It also doesn't say that it does not apply to the presidency.

This decision. Agrees that it does apply to the presidency. It will certainly be appealed on those and other grounds. I don't know when we are going to get a final decision, but this is an incredible moment in American history, which is also meaningless in the sense that Donald Trump is going to lose the state of Colorado regardless. And this is not ultimately going to decide who gets to 270 electoral votes in November. This is Trump can't be on the Republican primary ballot in Colorado during the primary, which is before the general election. Now, there are some

principles that Republicans claim to adhere to, which my prediction is, and I believe I will prove this to you before the show is over. My prediction is that Republicans are going to abandon. One such principle is about supposed states rights. We know that with Republicans, states rights apply when it's convenient for them. For example, in the Civil War era, the American right wing was fighting for states rights to maintain legal slavery. And all of a sudden, when it's about states rights to let gay couples get married or states rights to determine that abortion will be legal, all of a sudden these are much bigger issues that should

not be left to the states to decide. So we know that states rights is going to be a ball of hypocrisy as this goes forward. But there are greater questions, questions here as well, which is and the biggest question. And Rachel Maddow had an interesting commentary on this that I heard yesterday, which I don't have here, but I'll summarize in this way. This may just be the first domino. And while it is absolutely the case that Trump becoming president doesn't depend on Colorado because Colorado is a blue state that's going to vote for the Democratic nominee, almost certainly ninety nine point nine nine percent chance this may set in motion a series of

similar rulings in other states, in which case it would almost certainly be up to the Supreme Court to decide. Now, this is a very Trump friendly Supreme Court. Three of the justices on the court were selected by Donald Trump, nominated by Donald Trump and approved by the Senate. And so if I'm really honest, I don't have significant optimism that a Trump friendly Supreme Court is going to say, yeah, Trump can't run. But let's cross that bridge when we come to it. Incredible news. Trump banned from running for president in the state of Colorado.

What was his reaction? Let's talk about that next. from running for president in the state of Colorado. What was his reaction? Let's talk about that next. In the immediate moments after Colorado Supreme Court decided Trump cannot run for president, the failed former president took to truth central central, you know, the website Truth Social, whatever you call it these days, and issued some all capital letters rants. The first one was what a shame for our country.

The second one was a sad day in America. And the third one was election interference with a clip from Fox News, a clip that we are going to review later. Consider the circumstances in which Trump now finds himself. He is in the middle of a disastrous civil fraud trial in New York, which may cost him millions, potentially hundreds of millions, and may remove his right or ability to run a business in the state of New York. He's facing four criminal trials with ninety one different criminal charges, which anyone could land him in prison for what would effectively be a life sentence for someone of Trump's age and health. And in the meantime,

he is running a candidacy for the Republican primary choice to be president. He holds 63 percent support in polling among Republicans. And yet for now, one state, the state of Colorado, has said we are not going to allow you to run in our state. This guy is about to explode. He had a rally last night. We will later look at clips from that rally. He is extraordinarily triggered. And you know that he is sitting at home wondering, how the hell am I going to get out of this one? Now, for everybody who is saying this is it, Trump can't possibly get out of this one. Either either he won't be able to run nationally, more states will kick him off or he's going to end up convicted. As Michael Cohen says,

he's going to be convicted of felonies. He'll end up in prison or something is going to stop this guy to every single one of those people. I would say, remember all of the previous reports of Trump's demise that were premature. Assume that Trump not being president depends not on judges, not on courts, not on juries or guilty verdicts or imprisonment. Assume for that for now that the only thing standing between Donald Trump and the presidency is my vote and your vote and the votes of others that we say, hey, you really got to vote in November.

Maybe something else will happen, but we can't count on it. And that's the important takeaway from all of this as we continue talking about reactions to Trump being kicked off the ballot in the state of Colorado. All right. Tit for tat. They impeached Trump for good reason. Let's impeach Joe Biden. They indicted Donald Trump.

I did everything right and they indicted me. Let's try to indict Joe Biden. They kicked Trump off the ballot in Colorado. Well, let's try to kick Joe Biden off of the ballot. Yes, this is the next thing that they are talking about. Yesterday, after this ruling from Colorado, in which Donald Trump has been kicked off of the Republican primary ballot for his role in citing an insurrection on January 6th, 2021, a Texas lieutenant governor, Dan Patrick, showed up and was interviewed by Laura Ingraham on Fox News. And he was talking about the invasion that is happening thanks to Joe Biden at the

US Mexico border. It's crazy. And he floats the idea of kicking Joe Biden off the ballot in Texas because of, I guess, immigration policy. Listen to this. Anything that is appropriately done with Donald Trump, they are determined to inappropriately do with Joe Biden. They don't care about the facts. They don't care about reality. They care about tit for tat or they can go back. And if they go back and try to come back again and we arrest him again, the penalty gets

even higher. We're fed up. In fact, seeing what happened in Colorado tonight, Laura, makes me think, except we believe in democracy in Texas, maybe we should take Joe Biden off the ballot in Texas for allowing 8 million people to cross the border since he's been president. What? Disrupting our state far more than anything anyone else has done in recent history. And so this is so outrageous. Ten thousand, twelve thousand, fourteen thousand people a day. Remember, millions crossed under Trump as well by this

very lot. Listen, I know that Joe Biden hasn't incited an insurrection and Trump has. So that's a difference. But if your argument is kick Joe Biden off the ballot because people cross the border, people also cross the border illegally under Donald Trump. Does this make any sense? Of course not. It's Republicans in 2023. The border, eight million numbers, enough to be the 12th largest state. It's incredible. Now, I think the numbers kind of they not their people are numb to the numbers now. It's the sheer mass of humanity that is obviously taking over cities, local communities, school districts, health care system, homeless shelters.

I mean, it is overwhelming already. All right. You get the point. OK, there is one little problem with this, with this idea of kicking Joe Biden off of the ballot. Joe Biden hasn't done anything worthy of being kicked off of the ballot. It's the same problem with impeaching Joe Biden. Joe Biden hasn't, as far as the evidence shows today, done anything worthy of impeachment.

It's the same problem as saying indict Joe Biden. Joe Biden hasn't as of today, based on the evidence we have and the evidence Republicans have presented after years of researching, we have seen no evidence that shows that Joe Biden has committed any crime. And Biden certainly did not participate in instigating an insurrection, which would make one ineligible to run. That would be Donald Trump. This is the party that claims to be of law and order just saying they impeached our guy. We'll impeach theirs. They indicted our guy.

Let's find some way to impeach their guy. Oh, they kick Trump off the ballot. Let's kick Biden off the ballot. And by the way, even if Joe Biden were kicked off of the Texas ballot, same analysis applies. Trump's not counting on Colorado to get to 270 electoral votes. Joe Biden is not counting on Texas either to get to 270 electoral votes. Joe Biden is not counting on Texas either to get to 270 electoral votes. The question, of course, becomes, is Colorado the first domino to fall? Is this going to lead to a series of states saying Trump incited an insurrection, violated Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, can't run? That's the question we are now up against. After the break. We're going to hear from some faux legal experts, like really unreliable legal experts as to

their opinion of why this is all just so against the law and Trump is being treated so unfairly. Today is straight arrow news and independent news website and app really focused on unbiased fact based journalism. The top two independent media bias rating services have recognized their reporting as having a center or middle bias, no spin bias or filter to get the news. You can download their free app at S.A.N. dot com slash Pacman or go directly to Apple or the Google Play app stores and type in straight arrow news in the app. You will get access to daily news, investigative reports, exclusive interviews. Their free media mistool is great. It helps me find stories that are either underreported, sometimes being totally ignored by different

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Enter Pacman as the code and password. The info is in the podcast notes. Right wing media absolutely exploding over the decision from Colorado that Donald Trump will be kicked off. They banned him badly from the ballot in the Republican primary for his role in citing an insurrection. The Fox News hosts, the right wing legal analysts, everybody coming to the defense of Donald Trump, even though the facts are so plain to see. We've never had a president engage in the actions Trump engaged in. This

is absolutely the correct decision. The question is, are enough states going to do it that it will actually matter? Take a look at this. Here is Laura Ingraham from Fox News saying this is the ultimate in election interference. Take a listen. I'm Laura Ingram. This is the Ingram angle on a breaking news night. Tonight, America is seeing the ultimate in election interference as four unelected state judges, all appointed by Democrat governors, have ruled that Donald Trump must be kept off next year's presidential ballot. You know what's really funny about the mention of these are unelected judges. Whenever unelected judges that happen to be Trump appointees make a decision that Laura likes, it's never mentioned that the judges are unelected.

It's never mentioned who selected them. These are just judges, impartial arbiters of the law. It's called hypocrisy. Here is Charlie hurt on Fox News saying that this is a destruction of democracy. And the only reason this is being done to Trump is because Colorado Democrats are so scared of Trump. The people, the Democrats in Colorado are so afraid of allowing American voters to vote and pick the next president.

They are willing to do extrajudicial things, complete highway robbery here in order to thwart the people's choice from being on the ballot to them. Preserving democracy requires destroying democracy. So first of all, on the facts, obviously, Colorado is not going to determine who is the next president. When is the last time a Republican candidate won the state of Colorado in the general election? So from an empirical, historical, mathematical standpoint, it's absurd. Trump tried to destroy democracy. It's incredible that Charlie Hurt

brings up destroying democracy when the reason this is all happening is Trump and his acolytes and the fake electors and the rioters and everybody working together conspired to try to circumvent democracy. That's why we are here today. Here's Jonathan Turley, the favorite right wing legal analyst of late, who says that this is dangerous. The country is about to explode and the court, by making this decision, is throwing matches on a powder keg. Speaker 3 Well, this court just handed partisans on both sides the ultimate tool to try to shortcut elections. And it's very, very dangerous.

I mean, this country is a powder keg and this court is just throwing matches at it. And I. Speaker 1 And why is the country a powder keg? This is a classic. This is a classic from these right wingers. The country is a powder keg because there's a movement called MAGA, which has been inspired by Trump for years to believe Joe Biden didn't really win. They were inspired to riot on January 6th. They were inspired to create slates of fake electors

or fake slates of electors or fake slates of fake electors. It's all fake. OK, that's the reason that we have a powder keg. And then you're going to blame a decision from a court that seems to follow the law and the Constitution for being the match that you dropped onto the powder keg that Trump created. That's really rich. That's really rich. It's it's almost like reverse blame the victim. And then here's Greg Jarrett, I guess, another legal analyst on Fox News, saying that this is a form of rigging the election. Yeah, this is election rigging. Kayleigh's it was a narrow four to three decision.

It will almost certainly, in my judgment, be overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court because the insurrection clause in the 14th Amendment, as you point out, don't apply to the facts here. It was intended to prevent Confederates who literally took up arms against the government during the Civil War from holding office. So you fast forward now 150 years roughly. And Donald Trump is not even accused of insurrection under the federal statute. You know, what's really funny about this, when constitutional originalism is to their advantage with absolutely no interpretation whatsoever. Right. They say it doesn't matter what it was intended to do. All that matters is what is written down. And if all that matters is what is written down, then Trump is ineligible to run for president. But now Greg Jarrett brings in. Well, you have to understand what the founders were intending to do when they wrote this and the fact that it could

be reinterpreted in 2023 to apply. It shouldn't wait. Well, hold on a second. Hold on a second. Wait, wait, wait. That's the opposite argument that you normally make. You normally make the argument that we we love to say all the time on the gun safety left, we say, hey, you know, when the Second Amendment was written, we didn't have 98 percent of the firearms that are now available. Many of the capacity, the capacities of a lot of these, the ammunition capacity of a lot of modern firearms, the killing power of modern firearms was completely beyond the imagination of the founders.

So we have to understand that they're they're intentional. Well, hold on. What's written down? That's what matters. What's written down? Now, all of a sudden, it's all about sussing out the intent of the founders when it's not convenient. These people are pathetic. And finally, MAGA Mike Johnson posted. Quote, Today's ruling attempting to disqualify President Trump from the Colorado ballot is nothing but a thinly veiled partisan attack. Regardless of political affiliation, every citizen registered to vote should not be denied the right to support our former president and the individual who is the leader in every poll of the Republican primary. We trust the Supreme Court will set aside the decision. All right. Well, it may well get to the Supreme Court and we are going to keep an eye on that.

Vivek Ramaswamy is courageously pledging to withdraw from the Colorado primary ballot because of the decision that has banned Donald Trump. Vivek posting an excretion to X, quote, I pledge to withdraw from the Colorado Republican primary ballot until Trump is also allowed to be on the ballot. And I demand that Ron DeSantis, Chris Christie and Nikki Haley do the same immediately or else they are tacitly endorsing this illegal maneuver, which will have disastrous consequences for our country. Vivek also recording this video, I guess, on his luxury campaign bus, saying the following. They have just tried to bar President Trump from the Colorado ballot using an unconstitutional

maneuver that is a bastardization of the 14th Amendment to our U.S. Constitution. You bastard. This was a provision, Section three, that was designed to bar Confederate members. People switched to the Confederacy from actually being able to serve. That's very different than what's at issue here, to say the least. This is a hollowed-out husk of what the country was built on, the basic principle that we the people select our leadership, not the unelected elite class in the back of palace halls.

That's old-world Europe, not the United States. That's why I'm making a pledge today that I will withdraw. I pledge to withdraw from the Colorado GOP primary ballot unless and until Trump's name is restored. And I demand that Ron DeSantis and Chris Christie and Nikki Haley do the same thing or else these Republicans are simply complicit in this unconstitutional attack on the way we conduct our constitutional republic. So of course, as you can imagine, this threat from Vivek Ramaswamy currently polling for is absolutely rocking the political world. And of course, none of that is happening.

OK, Vivek's polling for and he says he'll drop out. There isn't even state polling out of Colorado. But this is all very, very pointless. And Vivek Ramaswamy never saw an opportunity that didn't encourage him to be opportunistic. I could not care less whether Vivek drops out. And it's not clear. It's not clear voters do either. So we're going to continue following this very closely. We will see if and when it gets to the Supreme Court. The stay is till January 4th. We'll do some more follow up on this on tomorrow's program. You know, crime continues to decline. And yet Fox News and other right wing media continue to lie about it. We actually have new

criminal crime data, which is very much telling a different story than what you might be hearing on TV. Here is this is from the FBI Crime Data Explorer. New data from 2022 to 2023. In terms of a violent crime, what you see here is that violent crime is down in cities of every size in the largest cities, cities of a million people or more. Violent crime is down 15 percent over the last year. That is a remarkable number. If you look at smaller cities, crime is down between seven percent or 10 percent, 8 percent. Even in non-metropolitan counties, crime is down. If you look regionally, you see that crime is down in the northeast by 11 percent. Violent crime is down in the Midwest by 11 percent. It's down in the south and the

west by 7 percent, respectively, respectively. And this is not the story. This is not the story that you are getting just about anywhere. OK, David, well, that's violent crime. What about property crime? Property crime is also down in cities of all sizes. It's especially down in non-metropolitan counties. But if you look at the largest cities,

it is down. What's interesting is I guess it's flat in the largest cities, largest, largest cities. It's flat property crime. And then in cities, half a million to a million, it's down quarter million to half a million. It's down 100K to 250K. It's down. Property crime is down. Violent crime is down. OK, well, David, what about specifically if we look at murder? Murder is down as well. Murder is down 25 percent in the largest cities and seven, eight, nine percent in the next size cities and down 22 percent in the smaller cities and down 15 percent in cities that are even smaller. All types of crime are down everywhere. And yet when you watch Fox News, you see stuff like this.

T-shirts. I look if what kind of alcohol is sitting next to them. I look everywhere. And if I see one thing that makes me suspicious, red flag. We don't go to their house. Remember that time you broke into that house? Do you remember? Yes. And then we move stuff around and make it look like we weren't in there. Yeah. And, you know, you're cherry picking again, Jessica. If you look at the NYPD statistics for here in Manhattan from 2019 to 2023, every single element of crime is up. Every single one. Now, if you compare it to 19, it was just in The New York Post. What are you going to call your other colleague a liar again? Now, you also have to trust your gut. When I go out now, I take my wedding band off. I put it in my pocket because I don't want to get jacked.

And I'm very athletic. I wonder if there's some other reason Jesse's taking his wedding band off when he goes out. Tell your wife when you forget to put it back on. Stop it. All the things I said on the show. That's going to get me in trouble. Oh, shut up. The job of a public defender is to defend their client. They shouldn't have. All right. So listen, they just talk about crime is up and inflation's up. And what this really reminds us is the numbers don't matter to them. Inflation is down. Inflation's up. And what this really reminds us is the numbers don't matter to them. Inflation is down. Inflation is down dramatically and significantly. And yet they continue to say things are more expensive than ever. Crime is down. All types of crime in all sized cities, in all regions of the country. And they insist that there is a Biden fueled crime wave of rampant

destruction and property crime and murder and sexual assault and everything. It's not actually happening, much like with the economy. If people don't know that, we kind of lose the benefit of the fact that things are improving, but they are going to continue pushing this narrative because their audience doesn't know any better. I don't know. I see statistics that it's down, but Jesse Waters told me that it's up. I guess those things are equivalent. Crime must be up. This gets us to why aren't Democrats and the Biden administration better at telling these stories? Why don't people realize that the economy is solid? Why don't people realize that inflation is down, that crime is down to some degree? It's the propagandizing and weaponization of

disinformation media targeted at these right wingers. So they never hear about this stuff. But Democrats have to have some responsibility. They can't just be the victims here. I don't have the answer. It would be nice to figure out what can be done. No matter your genetics or lifestyle choices as humans, we all share some basic foundational nutritional needs and properly replenishing your nutrients daily is important for gut health, stress management, immune system. And that's where our sponsor AG1 comes in. AG1 is a foundational nutrition supplement. It supports your body's universal needs with something that you can easily absorb and utilize. So instead of a multivitamin or fumbling around with 10 different vitamin bottles, I've just replaced all of it with one scoop of I'm David Pakman, the David Pakman show host. You're just covering your nutritional basis for the whole day. It's simple. You don't have to buy a bunch of different vitamins. My audience knows I don't advertise miracle solutions and cures,

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Robert Sapolsky, scientist, New York Times bestselling author. The new book is determined a science of life without free will. I know many in our audience, Robert, know you from YouTube video series, which are which are incredible in the number of times they've been viewed and shared. And it's so great to have you on. I really appreciate your time. Well, thanks. Thanks for having me on. Maybe just to start with. I'm curious how your your perspective has evolved from previous books in terms of the relationship between nature and nurture and shaping human behavior. And one of the things that may not come as a shock to our audience is that different subspecialties will have different conclusions on the nature of that interplay, nature and

nurture in shaping human behavior. And if I understand your your sort of background correctly, your view on this has evolved to some degree over time. Is that right? Well, I guess I was a bit more of a sort of genetic fundamentalist back when in terms of thinking about the importance of nature. Where I stand now is what I think any rational person in the business would come up with, which is this obligatory, ooh, it's not nature. It's not nurture. It's the vastly complex, gorgeous interactions between the two. So much so that asking which contributes

more is like saying what contributes more to the area of a rectangle, the length or the width, that the interactions are all there are. When you think about the concept of free will and determinism, which is in some way inextricably linked with this conversation as well, it seems that what what I believe is called the compatibilist view has emerged as popular, at least in casual discussions over the last five to 10 years. The idea being that to some degree, our inputs, including everything that has happened so far in the universe, has an impact on future events, but that that also provides wiggle room within which chance, odds and preferences can still impose to some degree free will. First of all, am I accurately explaining what that compatibilist view is and where are you

on that at this point in time? OK, that's a that's a perfect description. And like official polls have shown, about 90 percent of philosophers ascribe to this and probably a larger percentage of like regular old folks out there which is the view that you know you're willing to admit the the world is made of like little things there's atoms there's cells there's like science is okay it describes the way the universe works that you ascribe to a contemporary view about like us and our brains are based on neurons. And yet somehow, somehow that is compatible with your notion of wiggle room. Somewhere in there, there is an ability to sidestep all of that when generating behavior and exercising free will

that has nothing to do with all that science stuff. And in that regard, I count as what would be called a hard incompatibilist. You can't have the rules of the universe and how they have come about to construct our brains and a belief in free will. You can't have both together. So let's explore that a little more. I think I'm curious to hear from you what you see as the reasons why so many people seem to resist that. To me, it seems obvious that one of the reasons would be if it is all predetermined, there is less meaning than I believe there is to what I think are the choices I am making. Right. Decisions about what job to take, where to move, whether or not to have children, et cetera. If it's really all been

predetermined at the atomic and neuronal level to some degree, it seems that it would remove a lot of meaning from the choices we perceive we have. Right. I mean, is that is you tell me. Yeah, basically, yes, absolutely. And people, when you try to say there's no free will, their first response is, oh, my God, you know, that really can't be true. Because people will just run amok if they

start believing that that could be addressed. Ooh, we'll have murderers running around on the streets. No, we won't. Ooh, we'll have random incompetent people taking out your brain tumors. No, it doesn't mean that merit binds and not being important. Ooh, it means nothing can ever change. It means anything but that. But at the core of it, it means we're just biological machines. And that's unnerving as hell to a lot of people. And often on this deeply fundamental level of what does it mean that we are nothing more or less than the outcome of what biology interacting with environment running on sheer chance has done in making us who we are. Now, when we talk about this idea of outcomes being predetermined, you know, imagine something like some increase in criminality of a certain

kind in a certain area. And then people meet and they say, how could we reduce the amount of criminality of this type? A program is conceived, it's funded, and indeed, fewer people end up committing this particular crime. In some sense, you could say, well, it's all the outcome of the way that neurons and atoms and everything were aligned. The initial crimes that led to the meeting about reducing crime, that was predetermined. And then the meeting about how it was all predetermined in that way. But it certainly has the appearance that there are circumstances causing others to react in ways they wouldn't necessarily. And it feels as though there's agency there. Explain how there would not be

if there is indeed no free will. Well, what we're up against is this perception of how real, how tangible it feels when we make a choice., should I pick vanilla or chocolate ice cream? Ooh, should I pull the trigger or not on this gun? In that moment, usually, unless we're just working reflexively, and that's not where the most interesting stuff is happening. But at that moment, you are filled with intent. You know that you want to do what you were doing. You know what the likely outcome is going to be. And really importantly, you know there's alternatives. You're not being forced to do this. I don't have to do this. I could do something else. And yet I will choose to do this. I will

form this intent and act upon it. And where people really get gummed up with the sense that, oh, of course we have free will, is how real, how powerful that moment seems. And I think the starting point of kind of scientifically trying to dissect, deconstruct a view of free will, is that if that's your basis for making judgments about this, you are being asked to review a movie based on only having seen the last three minutes of it because having this whole issue oh are you consciously intentful do you know there's alternatives you know the consequences ignores the question that is the only one to ask which is whoa how do you wind up becoming the sort of person who would form that intent?

Where did that intent come from? And what that intent came from is everything that went on a second ago and the things that went on a second before and all the biological, environmental, et cetera, blah, blah stuff over which you had no control that turned you into the sort of person who would do what you did at that point, whether it would be committing that sort of crime or deciding we can take action and as a group have efficacy to do something to reduce crime or deciding that chocolate sounds, oh, so much better than Rocky Road at the moment. When we think about free will in terms of individual choices versus elements that have some kind of random component, and I'll give you an example. I was born in Argentina and in 1989, my dad won the visa lottery. Right. And so he was able to,

as a doctor, move to the United States. And everything that has happened in my life in some way, maybe not my personality, maybe not, you know, the my earlobe growth or whatever, but a lot of things in my life societally certainly were dependent on that. Now, you could say certainly that the inputs led to my family being in a place where we decided let's apply for the visa lottery. There was some random element seemingly to who gets that visa lottery. Does the no free will perspective argue that the winners of the visa lottery are also predetermined? No. are also predetermined? No, but what it argues mostly is that random events, A, are probably

perceived to be random events more frequently than they actually are, but B, most importantly, are not the basis for deciding you have free will. If random lotteries of like exit visas or random lotteries of brownie in motion of your molecules right the supposed basis for what you would call your character your backbone your values you're more that's like really problematic and that addresses like there's one sort of oh no no no there really is free will the world really isn't deterministic because this phenomenon of quantum indeterminacy and like i spent two chapters trying to dissect that and it's the notion that you know according to most people who understand the stuff which i sure don't elements of the universe at the sub the subatomic level really are indeterministic and

random and all of that. And nonetheless, that is not where behavior is coming from. And if it were where behavior were coming from, it would describe why everything we would do would be random. Philosopher Sam Harris says, if that were the case, you'd spend every moment saying, whoa, wow, I had no idea why I just said that. And I have no idea why I just said that. And that's not a basis for like, what, when people are thinking about free will, and the choices you make, they're thinking about how it's your funeral, Your oldest friend is going to get up and say, wow, even in kindergarten, they were already that sort of person. It was already that consistent. And randomness is not where you're going to get that from.

So the fact that there are random elements to our behavior and you can show that sometimes neurons do random things, but nonetheless, that's not sort of the basis of like hitching one's wagon to we are free agents out there. In the book, you argue for a more humane world as you see it and as you define it. And as someone who wants to raise the standard of living around the world. And I have goals that I believe line up with that. I'm curious how we harness this perspective on free will that you have in order to achieve that. What let's say we all agree, OK, there's no free will. Now, what do we do to end up with a more humane world? Great. We do what we have done over and over and over because sort of the starting point is we have a world in which we are OK with treating some people way better than average because of things they had nothing to do with and some people way worse than average because they think they have no control over, and then preaching gibberish about how this is a just world and people get what they deserve.

And every time we have figured out, actually, that's a realm in which people actually didn't have responsibility over what they did. We figured out at one point, amazingly, the old woman at the edge of the village who nobody talks to, who has no teeth, doesn't really have control over the weather. She's really not a witch. And it's silly to burn her at the stake when there's an unexpected ice storm. We subtracted responsibility out of our picture of where rotten weather comes from. And whoa, it's a better world that we don't burn people at the stake for thinking that they're witches. And so let me make sure I understand this example.

So in a sense, you're saying if we all have a recognition that to a great degree, the circumstance of individuals is not their, quote, fault or responsibility, even are we saying that we would say, well, as a result, we should certainly treat everybody well and more equally. Is that the argument? Yeah, absolutely. The case, because if you take these sort of biological nuts and bolts, scientific argument that we're nothing more or less than the sum of everything we came before, etc. At the end of that, what that has to mean is blame and punishment make no sense whatsoever. Praise and reward make no sense whatsoever. The criminal justice system is as irrational as is a meritocracy, that all we are are biological machines. And if you truly believe that, you are entitled to nothing more or less than any other person, because there's

nothing about you that you have earned. And often when people have their first panic, oh, come on, there's got to be free will. It's the, are you telling me you're going to have murderers running around in the street and no responsibility? When people really sort of marinate in the implications, what they're really saying is, wait a second, I just did something nice or smart or creative or kind or whatever. Are you telling me I didn't actually deserve the praise that I get for it? We've been speaking with Robert Sapolsky, author of Determined, a science of life without free will. The full interview will be on our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash the David

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And you'll get thirty dollars off their best selling frames when you go to or a frames dot com slash Pacman and use the code Pacman. The frames sell out quickly. Get yours before they are gone.. Failed former President Donald Trump gave another one of these sweaty orange rallies yesterday, this one in Waterloo, Iowa. And while denying that he is suffering from cognitive decline, he glitz and couldn't correctly say cognitive decline. You can't write this stuff. You really can't write this stuff. Watch carefully.

Listen in detail. The only reason I corrected you say he didn't know his name. He didn't know his name. He didn't know his name. He must be cognitive. You know, don't forget, I do most of this stuff without teleprompters. They do. But he must be cognitive. That's the Trump glitch.

That's exactly what we're talking about. And Trump does it while trying to say cognitive decline, Trump re-upping his claim that they are destroying the blood of our country. And apropos of nothing, Trump says, by the way, I never read Hitler's book Mein Kampf. Did someone ask about that from the crowd? I mean, certainly you're using language that is reminiscent of it. Are you telling us you came up with this disgusting, dehumanizing language all on your own? It's crazy what's going on. They're ruining our country. And it's true that destroying the blood of our country, that's what they're doing.

They're destroying our country. They don't like it when I said that. And I never read Mein Kampf. They said, oh, Hitler said that in a much different way. You know, they're coming from all over the world, people all over the world. We have no idea. They could be healthy. They could be very unhealthy. They could bring in disease that's going to catch on in our country. But they do bring in crime. But they have them coming from all over the world. Trump also re-upped his claim that they are coming from insane asylums. And

that is just an urban legend with no evidence. There is no evidence whatsoever that any so-called insane asylums are being opened up into the United States. It just doesn't make any sense. Now, here is a doozy. Trump now recognizing the stock market is on fire. He says the stock market only helps rich people get richer. Well, you used to brag about the stock market all the time when you were president. But then Trump also says the real reason the stock market's doing well right now is because of the things I did while I was president. Trump is simultaneously saying the great stock market doesn't matter. And it's also thanks to Trump that the stock market today is doing so well. And I heard somebody today say one of these genius analysts, the stock market's

good to rich, get richer. But the stock market's good because they think Trump is going to win the election. And I believe that's true. And right. It's doing well now on the expectation that Trump wins 11 months from now. Sure. Whatever good they have right now is the fumes of what we left. It's coming off the fumes of what we've left them. Right. But the stock market is good because a lot of people think we're going to win the election. The the stock market. Joe Biden was going to oversee a stock market crash the likes of 1929. Oh, the stock market's great. Well, in that case, it's because of the fumes of my administration and the expectation of my second

administration. By the way, historically, it's not even close. The stock market performs far better when there's a Democratic president than when there's a Republican president. It's just not even close. Come up with the numbers on your own. You can easily make this. You can you can easily do the math yourself. Don't believe me. Fact check me on it and you will be stunned at the degree to which this is true.

Trump on Washington, D.C., says that he knows paper and he knows cans. All right. That's interesting. The streets, they look like I mean, I drove into Washington a few weeks ago for a court case. One of the many I should get to know it very well. Very. I can't get a fair trial on Washington. The whole thing is ridiculous. Right. But but for a court case, I'm driving over a road where it's almost all paper garbage. And, you know, you can see paper. I know paper. I know cans.

When cans start to literally rot, when paper is rotting, it's been there for a long time. Nobody cleans up anything. The medians. Nobody cleans it. What on earth is Donald Trump talking about? These these are just this is the free association of a guy who has real trouble, real trouble thinking in any way other than the most basic concrete thoughts. Trump then promised to indemnify all police officers and law enforcement throughout the United States. No matter what you do, you will be immune. I wonder if that applies to the Capitol Police on January 6th. Right. They don't seem to defend those officers as much. But I'm also going to indemnify all police officers and law enforcement officials throughout the United States for being destroyed by the radical left for taking strong action on crime.

These are people they want to destroy them because they want to put criminals away. They're forced to do nothing. They cannot do anything. But I'm also there you go. Except for the officers that he incited his cult to attack. So Trump in Waterloo clearly unhinged the crowd, visibly disoriented and Trump making about as much sense as him running for president made in the first place back in 2015. But tens of millions of people love it. And the reminder is he could be president if we don't all vote.

This, I think, is going to wrap. This next story is going to wrap our coverage of Charlie Kirk's Turning Point USA TP action event in Phoenix, Arizona. And we are going to wrap with a disgusting speech from Ted Cruz. Now, I will mention this is a nauseating speech. It's vomitous in a number of different ways. I want to prepare you for that because Ted Cruz gives advice for sex. Ted. Oh, wow. These people are insane. So remember, first of all, it's they pretend that these are like rock stars. Here is Ted Cruz's introduction and then him coming out onto the stage. And it's beyond belief that this is what they're doing. But you know what? You got to you got to give them credit, OK? The left doesn't do stuff like this because

we aren't a cult. But maybe we should. I mean, maybe these events are the sorts of things that would fire up the left the way the right gets fired up. Look at this. And if you're just listening, there's smoke and pyrotechnics and lights. It's wild. Crazy is right. So there is Ted Cruz being played out by a by Ozzie, played in by Ozzie rather. And here is maybe the most disgusting moment of the speech. Ted Cruz says liberal women are angry all the time because liberal men don't have the sexual skills, apparently, for the liberal women to be happy. This is Ted Cruz with. And by the way, this is not fat shaming. This is just Ted Cruz. His face has

doubled in size because of something he did. His belly is hanging over his belt. The shirt buttons are probably under the extreme load and about to pop off. And this guy thinks he's going to come out and explain what it is women want. If you can believe that, listen to this. Left is so bad. They're so unhappy. They're so pissed off. And by the way, if you were a liberal woman and you had to sleep with those weenies, right? Whoops. I think he just popped a stitch on his shirt. Guys, you'll be pissed to. Muted applause from the crowd that doesn't exactly find Ted Cruz to be

the the epitome of male prowess or whatever you would say. This guy is vile. This guy is genuinely vile. Ted Cruz talking about Joe Biden and doing the Joe Biden's a pedophile routine, which the crowd really liked. Joe Biden knows what a woman is. I'll give you proof. He only sniffs the hair of girls. The crowd really liking that one. And then Ted Cruz continuing. It's either a bad political speech or a worse standup routine. Ted Cruz again rehashing his now very tired line that his pronouns are kiss my ass. I introduced myself to the crowd. I said, I'm Ted Cruz and my pronouns are kiss my ass. Right. And I got to say, it was pretty wild because after I did that, Roseanne Barr, who was here,

she put on a comedy special and she stood up on TV and she said, I'm Roseanne Barr and my pronouns are kiss my ass. Right. He start this guy's a trendsetter. Everything that Ted Cruz touches turns to gold. He also said that the world has gone nuts. I'm here to tell you two very simple things. Number one, the world has gone nuts. Yeah. And a lot of them are there in the room with him now.

The nuts. Look, we have John Fetterman paying George Santos to tell Bob Menendez to leave the Senate. That's real. By the way, I did observe DeMarco Rubio. I said, listen, I'm really glad that the two of us are two thirds of the Cuban-American caucus. We're the two thirds that haven't been indicted. And in Bob's defense, it is true that as Cubans, we carry gold bars wherever we go. There you go.

Isn't this guy just so funny, so articulate and erudite? It's really good. I think then he gave us his theory on covid, which brace yourself. Speaker 4 And I actually have a theory on this. My theory is the covid virus reacts Right. At six feet, it is deadly. At three feet. It is healthy and a tonic for the bones. I guess this is about when you needed a mask to walk around the restaurant, but not when you sat down. I don't know.

And then lastly, here he is claiming Democrats want to abolish the police. It's like, when's the last time you heard about that? Normal, rational people don't think abolishing the police is a good idea. Yeah, neither does just about anybody else on the left. I mean, honestly, there's no place in the Democratic platform for abolishing the police. I've never met anyone personally in my life, and I know a lot of left wingers that wants to abolish the police. Does someone want to abolish the police? I'm sure I'm sure someone does in the same way that crazy ideas sometimes have followers. But who even hears about abolishing the police? So Ted Cruz, more of a comedian now than anything else, a bad comedian giving sex advice and generally being a disgusting person.

The epitome of the turning point event. Let's hope we don't hear about it again for at least a year. We have a voicemail number. That number is two one nine two. David P. We changed the theme music for the show. Usually any change we make people hate. We got a couple of negative messages, but overwhelmingly people love it. Listen to these voicemails. I really like the new music. I gave it a couple of days

to check it out. I really like the new theme music. It's more contemporary. It reminds me of did you ever see the movie Joe Dirt at the end of the movie? OK, in the whole movie, Joe Dirt has a mullet for a haircut, but it's a surgically implanted mullet. He can't get it off of his head. Right. He gets to a horrible accident, just figuring at the end of the movie and they replace his mullet with like these dreadlocks, like more of a 90s hairstyle.

And they just said, hey, it's more contemporary. Oh, boy. Eggman is just going on and on. But we've gone more contemporary. OK, here's another voicemail about the new music. Hey, David, it's doing often. I know you're probably getting a lot of people complaining about the theme song, but I really love it. I think it kicks out. I think that you're single handedly bringing back third wave. Thank you so much. All right.

There's another person who likes it. And then here's another one. David, hi, this is Ralph from Framingham, Mass. A huge fan of your show and been a member for a while. Anyway, I want to say I love the new music, the new intro music. It's pretty cool. It's got a very sublime sort of feel. When I when it first came on the first hour, listen to the podcast, I thought I hit the wrong button on my on my phone anyway. I want to throw it out there.

It's really great groove to it. I really like it. I think it's great. Yeah. So listen, the song is Illegal Dub by Dub Trio. Dub Trio is Stu, Joe and Dave and. Who follow me on Instagram, I think you've seen pictures of Stu Brooks and I, and he has been in a whole bunch of different bands playing with so many different people.

And we're really thrilled that they're letting us use the song. People are mostly loving it. Three people wrote to me saying it's no good, which honestly, usually like 70 percent of the audience hates any change that we make until they get used to it. Then they get mad at the next change. But I'm actually shocked that overwhelmingly positive response is what we have been receiving. Illegal Dub by Dub Trio is the song. All right.

A great bonus show for you today. Sign up on the website. We're out of time, but it's a good one. It'll it'll be a good one. I'll tell you that.