The David Pakman Show - 12/21/23: TX companies furious at GOP, Trump PANICS to block witness

Episode Date: December 21, 2023

-- On the Show: -- A group of Texas companies declare that Republicans are ruining their businesses -- Failed former President Donald Trump is panicking to try to block a specific witness from testifying in his defamation case with E. Jean Carroll -- MMA fighter Colby Covington declares that he lost his fight because he is a supporter of Donald Trump -- Caller claims that Trump is better than Biden on foreign policy -- Caller is moderate and doesn't know whether to vote for Biden -- Caller asks who the presidential nominees will be if Trump and Biden die or drop out before Election Day -- Caller wonders what happens to MAGA if Trump loses in 2024 -- Caller talks about the productivity side of the economy -- Caller says she won't vote for Biden over Israel-Palestine -- The Friday Feedback segment -- On the Bonus Show: Biden responds to Trump getting kicked off Colorado ballot, Michelle Bachmann calls for genocide of Gazans, and much more... 🔊 Babbel: Get 55% off your subscription at https://babbel.com/pakman ☕ Trade Coffee: Get 15% off all gift subscriptions at https://drinktrade.com/pakman 💻 Get Private Internet Access for 83% OFF + 4 months free at https://www.piavpn.com/David 👍 Manscaped: Use code PAKMAN for 20% off & free shipping at https://manscaped.com 💻 Stay protected! Try our sponsor Aura FREE for 2 weeks at https://aura.com/pakman 🧻 Reel Paper: Code PAKMAN for 30% OFF + free shipping at https://reelpaper.com/pakman 💪 Athletic Greens is offering FREE year-supply of Vitamin D at https://athleticgreens.com/pakman -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

. Texas companies have gotten together to say that Republicans in Texas are ruining their businesses, which should come as a shock if you believe that the Republican Party is endlessly pro-business, right? Or something like that. Let's discuss it. Newsweek reports a coalition of Texas businesses have said ambiguity over abortion bans in the Lone Star State is making recruitment harder following the near all out ban enacted by Republicans. An amicus brief originally filed by the law firm Reed Smith, signed by 40 Texas companies, was filed in support of 22 women suing the state of Texas over abortion laws. And many businesses have endorsed the letter.

This includes Bumble and Match, which has matched common tinder advertising agencies, Preacher, GSD and Dem, the event organizer South by Southwest, the United States Women's Chamber of Commerce and many Texas real estate companies, law firms and restaurant groups. The complaint is a clear one. What Republicans are doing when it comes to abortion is making the state less appealing. So when we want to bring advertisers in, we have more trouble when we want to bring people into our restaurants. We have trouble when we want to hire people to work for us in this industry or in that industry. We have trouble because women don't want to come here and their families is not just women

because of the absolutely outrageous laws when it comes to abortion. Now, we have talked about the losing issue that banning abortion has become for Republicans. It hurt them in 2022, 2020. It's been a disastrous issue for Republicans because most Americans want abortion to be legal and safe in most cases. But we actually need to zoom out because the broader notion that Republicans are pro business in their policies is one of the oldest but most persistent lies in American politics. And it goes down the line. Tariffs and trade wars.

Republicans often love using tariffs and trade wars. Trump did it with China. He thought it would be terrible for China and great for American businesses. And in reality, what those tariffs did is increase the costs for American manufacturers and farmers and led to retaliation against American exports. They say they're pro business, but that's not very pro business. Many of the immigration restrictions that Republicans love tightening immigration policy, making it harder for many sectors that depend on immigrant labor, agriculture, technology, hospitality. They make it harder for them to be fully staffed.

This hurts their businesses. This leads to shortages. This leads to increased labor costs. It's not very pro business, is it? Environmental deregulation. There's the idea if you do environmental deregulation and you're just less strict with businesses about how they can pollute and dispose of toxic chemicals, et cetera, it seems like it would lower their costs and be good. The problem is if you are a business that relies on environmental stability, if you

have invested in green tech, then you are actually hurt by the environmental deregulation. Another one on the list that's not actually so good, not supporting meaningful health care reform, maintaining the status quo where many people keep their jobs only to maintain health insurance is not good for companies because you have people who don't really want to be there. If you were to free people from this connection that exists between work and health insurance, you would then leave people free to really pursue jobs where they want to be working, not just because they need health care. So businesses would have more passionate and more motivated and committed employees.

I could go on and on. But the point here is yet another way in which Republican policies aren't good for business. The extreme anti-abortion laws that Texas and other states have passed. Donald Trump is panicking to block this one witness from testifying in the E. Jean Carroll defamation case. Now, as a reminder, this is not the civil fraud suit in New York. This is not Trump's criminal trials. This is the E. Jean Carroll defamation case. Look at this. This is from The Daily Beast. As Rudy Giuliani reels from a devastating hundred and forty eight million dollar verdict for ruining the lives of two Georgia women,

the person he was acting in service to, Trump, is desperately trying to dodge his own defamation disaster. Now, you'll remember that a New York jury in May already found Trump sexually abused E. Jean Carroll, awarded her five million bucks. This issue is coming back next month. Trump is going to have a second trial over the way that he defamed her from the White House by denying her claims. One of the people that Trump does not want to see in court is the court expert who put the nine figure price tag on Rudy Giuliani's defamation. This is Ashley Humphries. Ashley Humphries showed up and testified in Rudy Giuliani's trial and said, here is how we get to this defamation is one hundred and forty eight million dollars worth. That same Ashley Humphreys is scheduled to testify in Trump's defamation trial.

Trump is panicking. Trump's lawyers are doing everything they can to prevent this person from testifying. Quote, This court should simply exclude Dr. Humphrey's testimony altogether. That's what Trump's defense lawyer Michael Maddow wrote last week, saying, Please do not let this person testify. The defense's reasons for trying to push out Humphrey's are sort of ironic. They say that her views of the damage damages are inflated. The damage estimations in her initial report are egregiously inflated to the tune of millions of dollars, utilize methods which ascribe harm in an unreliable and incorrect manner, and do not accurately reflect the actual harm to the plaintiffs reputation. What's so funny and ironic about this is Trump's civil trial.

Civil fraud trial is all about Trump inflating numbers beyond what they actually are. Real estate values here, there, this building, that building. And now his lawyers want this expert witness excluded for that same reason. So listen, here's the bottom line. Ashley Humphries analyzed the publicity surrounding Trump's defamatory statements. She understands what it costs to achieve reputational repair. She understands what it would cost to buy the amount of defamatory media coverage that the statements got. And she is able to say, here's the amount that E. Jean Carroll is entitled to and should get. And that is terrifying.

That is terrifying to Donald Trump and to his lawyers, because it means it could be a very hefty sum that he is ordered to pay. So we will see whether that testimony is excluded or not. Of course, prosecutors saying it absolutely should be included. Why would it not be included? This is an expert in this field. And then we will see. We've got the second defamation trial with E.G. and Carol. We have the civil fraud trial in New York. And then we have Trump's four criminal trials scheduled to start in March. I believe it is. I'll have that exact date for you next week. So that's where we are. And somehow Trump is running for president in the middle of all of this and going between

rallies. And even if it seems like this guy has no shot, this is the only time I'll say it today, depending on what people call in about later. But don't assume that what is obviously an insane situation, six trials, four of them criminal, et cetera. Don't assume this means Trump loses. It doesn't necessarily mean that Trump loses unless we all vote and make sure that he does. Hey, this is a funny little thing. I don't want to spend a lot of time on this. I meant to get to it Monday and the week the week just got away from me. There is an MMA fighter named Colby Covington.

He is a big Trump supporter. And as you know, Trump and Republicans are big advocates of personal responsibility. Here is Colby Covington saying the reason he lost his fight to a decision is because the judges hate him because he supports Donald Trump. Listen to this. Nothing. The third, you know, he didn't put any damage on me. He got a couple of low kicks, but then I started checking them at the end. So, you know, I thought I had the win.

I thought I did enough. But, you know, the judges have never favored me. They hate me because I support Trump. And, you know, everybody hates Trump in this building. So, you know, it is what it is. Life goes on. What happened to personal responsibility? What happened to it's not everybody else's fault. It's my fault. I just lost the fight now. Hilariously, MMA or specifically UFC, the UFC

League, MMA League seems to be one of the most pro Trump sports out there. When Trump goes to so many different sporting events, he's booed even sometimes when he goes to college football in the southeast of the United States, which you would think is super pro Trump. The guy still gets booed. UFC seems to love this guy. And the assumption from Covington that the judges must hate Trump and as a result must have unfairly found against him because he likes Trump is absurd.

And what's the theme? The theme is when MAGA people lose, they can't just accept that they lost. Trump lost to Biden. Can't accept it. Carrie Lake lost to Katie Hobbs. Can't accept it. Colby Covington lost to I don't even know who can't accept it. It applies in elections. It applies in sports. It applies in sports. It applies everywhere. And it's just a reminder. Right. Just a reminder. If Trump loses in 2024, he will blame everybody else. He'll blame Biden, the Justice Department, the judicial system, state secretaries of state, whoever is running election ballot counters, election overseers, everybody's fault.

But Trump's if he loses in 2024, it's the one thing Ron DeSantis recently said that's true, which is if Trump loses, he's going to blame somebody else and say that it was rigged. Colby Covington saying the same thing. I'm not an expert on MMA, but I spoke to a couple of friends who are big followers. They said this guy just lost. If you disagree with me, let me know in the comments. All right.

We have phone calls from you coming up. I'm going to answer some emails from folks. We've got the bonus show. I will then be off tomorrow on vacation. Monday, we are off for Christmas and then I'll be off a couple more days and then back with you. We will have a great cast of guest hosts coming in. I'll say this a couple of times today just so people don't forget.

Be nice to them, please. They're all good people. And there will be one new guest host as well who has never hosted the show before. More on that a little bit later. Here is an awesome last minute holiday gift you can send instantly. It's a trade coffee subscription. Trade coffee is where I turn to when I'm looking to get coffee with consistently high quality roasts, a ton of selection customization.

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sign up. You'll get the daily bonus show, commercial free audio and video shows, access to a members only soundboard similar to the one I use on the show. And we will ban men. Exactly. And so many other great things. Join Pacman dot com is the place to do it. Let's hear from some folks in the audience. We normally do these calls on the Friday show because I'm going to be off tomorrow in advance

of the Christmas holiday. We're doing it today. Today it's Thursday, but it's as if it were Friday. David Pakman dot com slash discord is the place where you can go. And when we do live calls, that's absolutely the way we do it. Let's go first to Zeus from Iowa, who says he is a Trump supporter. Zeus, welcome to the program. What's on your mind today? Speaker 3 Yeah, I just want to ask you, when you cover different candidates are running, do you think you should

cover more candidates than just Trump or Biden? Or is that your focus right now? Speaker 1 Sorry, did you say Trump or Biden? Zeus, are you there? Did you say covering candidates other than just Trump or Biden? Speaker 3 Yeah, kind of, you know, give other people like, you know, more coverage on like, you know, their positions. Speaker 1 Yeah.

So, I mean, listen, here's the deal. As far as the Democratic side, when Robert F. Kennedy Jr. announced he was running, we covered it and we covered his subsequent policy positions and interviews. When Marianne Williamson announced that she was running, we announced we covered that she was running. Same with Dean Phillips. Same with Cenk Uygur. When RFK switched from being a Democratic contender to independent, we covered that.

We we are covering the Republican primary more extensively because there is like a real primary on the Democratic side. You have an incumbent president who's running for reelection. So on the Republican side, we've covered every debate live. We've interviewed some of the candidates, Vivek Ramaswamy. We regularly cover all of the candidates running on the Republican side so that, you know, we're kind of making a judgment based on what are the dynamics within these primaries, how much coverage, you know, a real contested primary versus an incumbents running for reelection. And we're kind of just, you know, trying to fine tune where we land on it. Fair enough. All right. That's it. Thank you, David. And so why are you supporting Trump? I'm curious.

Donald, that's a really good question. So I believe that Trump has a stronger projection of power on foreign policy. Like with which countries? Well, sure. Let's give the example. Let's start off with Iran. OK. When he basically put sanctions on them and in 2022, Biden removed the sanctions. OK. And then 2022, Biden removed the sanctions. OK. And then what were the effects of the sanctions Trump put on Iran? Well, the sanctions really weren't that influential. It was more so a position. Why do you like it? Was it? Well, you said you like Trump because he's stronger on foreign policy in relation to other countries.

You said you like that he put sanctions on Iran, but then you said the sanctions didn't do anything. So then why do you like that? Speaker 3 Well, the sanctions are more so a point on what's going to happen right in the future, because if you remove sanctions from certain countries, it shows we're de-escalating the situation. We're having a different policy. Isn't that good? Isn't de-escalating good? Depends on the country. But you said the problem with removing sanctions is you're de-escalating. You said as if that's

a bad thing. I think with Iran specifically, considering they support Hamas and other terrorist organizations, I don't think we should deescalate with those actors specifically. You think from an escalation is better? Yeah, I think it's going to force Iran to be more, I guess you could say, careful if that's the word you're looking for. Okay. And then how about other than Iran? What other countries? Oh, that's a good question.

Another country I could give an example is, I would say Russia. And it's a tricky one, right? Because this one's a little bit more nuanced. So we were basically having a oil war, press war in 2020. And the Trump administration was able to convince the Saudis to basically fight against Russia when it came to that oil war. So our relationship, although not great, but better under Trump with Saudi Arabia kind of allowed us to maneuver right against Russia. Now that Biden has a worse relationship with the Saudis, they're not really listening to him. They're doing all that. Plus, they're doing

all these oil deals with it. But hold on a second, Zeus. Hold on a second. You're all over the place. You said that you like the way that Trump handled the Russia relationship when it comes to oil. But then you said and now under Biden, the oil relationship is worse with the Saudis. But you're comparing Trump's relationship with Russia to Biden's with the Saudis. Right. Does that make sense? So I'm saying for us to be tough on Russia, which, you know, for for basically Russia is doing well because they have a better they have they have a better leverage on the oil economy. Right. But when you talk about the oil war, Zeus, here's the thing I want to figure out is the

point of waging that oil war that you like that Trump wage to get oil prices up or down. To get prices down on oil. Oh, so then why did Trump try to work with Saudi and Russia to get oil prices up? Are you saying up for them or up for us? Well, it's a global price. So just we now know that Trump asked to work with Saudi and Russia to raise oil prices. Trump was regular. Do you remember Trump's rallies in 2020,

where he would regularly complain that oil prices were too low? Do you remember that? I could see that, but I don't remember specifically. But so you said that Trump waged an oil war to get prices low, but he was trying to get Russia and Saudi to raise oil prices. Isn't that the opposite of what you said he was doing? So what I recall was he was trying to raise oil prices for Russia to basically have a disadvantage for their for their oil prices to be high. But you just told me that. But it's a global price. You know, the price of oil is global, right? Yeah, it's a global price, but yeah, it depends. But you just said you like that Trump worked to lower it, but now you're defending Trump working to raise it. That's what that sounds weird to me.

No, I'm saying for the Russians. So it just doesn't work that way, though. All right. Zeus from Iowa. Thank you. A little bit of an insight there. Make of it. Make of it what you will.

Let's go next to Dakota in Massachusetts. Dakota in Massachusetts. Welcome to the program. What's on your mind today? Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Cool. Um, so I was in Massachusetts and I guess my question is, is it better because we have

open primaries? Is it better to vote for a non-trump candidate so like nikki haley or um uh um or uh the uh governor from new jersey christy yeah chris christy or is it better to vote for like uh um someone on the democratic side like the the because I prefer not Biden, but like if he's the Democratic nominee, I'll pick him if it's between him and Trump. But so who would you actually prefer, Dakota? Who would you read of the people that are running? Who would you really prefer?

I'm Cenk Uygur, but he probably doesn't have a chance in heck. He can't legally be president. Did you know that? No, I know he's does that dissuade you at all? Then, uh. Like I know he doesn't have a chance in heck, so I guess someone else. But again, we don't have a very good candidate on the on the Democratic side besides Biden, which I'm kind of mad about. I I don't I don't like that we

have, quote unquote, two old people for that are most likely going to be the nominee. So here's what I would do, Dakota. I'm going to be super honest with you. Biden's going to easily win the Democratic primary in Massachusetts and Biden's easily going to win the general election in Massachusetts because it's Massachusetts. OK, so what I would do is I would forget about the strategic voting. If you like, Cenk, write him in in the primary or whatever, since he can't legally be president. I don't even know if he'll actually be like on the ballot formally or you'll have to write him in. I would just you know, if you're not a Republican,

there's no reason to go out and vote for Nikki Haley because she'd be less bad than Trump. I would just vote for whoever you like at each chance. And it sounds like what you're saying is vote Cenk in the primary and vote Biden in the general and that that's what I would do. You know, I'm a moderate. I honestly before 20 before 2020, I know I have voted for both Democrats and Republicans because I like both parties. I hate that we only have a two party system. I so that's surprising to me then that if you're a moderate, it seems you would be between

Biden and Haley. But you're saying you would rather Jank who's further from the moderate position. That doesn't I know. I know. I'm like, I'm weird. I'm a very like trying to vote for the candidate. Are you or you're a progressive? I thought you were a moderate. So, no, I'm a very like trying to vote for the candidate. Are you or you're a progressive? I thought you were a moderate. Speaker 1

So, no, I am a moderate. So like I'm a progressive and like the views, but like money makes more sense. I don't know. I'm I don't know. I guess at this point I'm like, I'm I like I like both sides. I like progressive views, but kind of the money on the Republican side. Like, I don't. What's your most conservative view? I don't know. I don't like I guess I've been told recently that I'm more progressive or more Democratic because I don't agree to the the military. Like, I don't agree to adding more money to the military, I guess, because. OK, but I'm trying to figure out you said you're a moderate and you have left and right wing views. What right wing views do you have? I guess like.

Hiding money, but cutting money the best way. What do you mean cutting? You mean reducing the budget? Speaker 5 Yeah, I guess so. Speaker 1 And it sounds like you want to reduce the military budget primarily. Speaker 5 Yeah. Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a left wing view. That's a left wing view. Speaker 1 Yeah, I kind of like what I hate. Matt Gates.

I call him that gets because he doesn't think. But I agree that there should be like 11 appropriation bills or 12 or whatever they are, like individual appropriation bills rather than like a massive budget. Well, listen, Dakota, I'm not hearing any reason you would vote for a Republican, but I do hope in the 10 and a half months before the election, you you sort it out. All right, my friend. Yep. Sorry. Thank you sort it out. All right, my friend. Yeah, sorry. Thank you. All right. Dakota from Massachusetts. Very interesting, guys. What's going on out there? I think everybody's hearing it. Let's go to Jessica from Indiana. Jessica, welcome back to the program. What's on your mind today? Hey, not much. We pull up my notes. I had this written down. All right. okay. So here's a hypothetical

for you. Joe Biden and Donald Trump both magically keel over and die tomorrow. They, sorry, they both do. Yeah, they both, they both magically keel over. They're both out of the primaries. Got it. After all the dust has settled, who do you think comes out of the 2024 primaries on top? And who do you think would win the presidential election? I think if Trump dies, Nikki Haley wins the Republican primary. I think if Biden dies, someone who is not currently running gets drafted and becomes the nominee. I don't believe that it's Jenk Uyghur nor Marianne Williamson nor Dean Phillips.

If Biden dies, I think it will be someone else. I don't know who. And if that were to happen, I have no idea who wins in November. Fair enough. Why do you not think it would be Marianne William Williamson? Isn't see the front runner besides Biden when it comes to the Democratic ticket? Honestly, I have no idea where the polling is right now, whether she's in last polling. I saw she was tied with Dean Phillips. So I don't know if she's the front runner or not. But I think if Biden dies, the Democratic Party finds someone else. Is it Gavin Newsom? Is it Kamala Harris? Is it who I don't know who it is, but I think if Biden dies, it's someone not currently running.

Fair enough. And then this is just a recommendation, but I would love to see you do a video on the Z-Way interview with George Santos. Speaker 1 Oh, I saw that. It's so funny. Speaker 2 It is. See how somehow makes him admit that he doesn't know who Marsha P. Johnson or who James Baldwin is. Speaker 1 Yep. Speaker 2 And I think at one point he I think. Speaker 1 Yeah, it was ridiculous.

And at one point and at one point he even claims that Dan Goldman owes one hundred and eighty K in rent. Speaker 1 I didn't see that part of it, but it's a wild interview. Z-Way with George Santos. Definitely check it out. Jessica, thank you. OK, thank you. All right.

Jessica from Indianapolis. Let's go next to you know, there are so many people trying to get on today that it is it's a pretty explosive situation. I'm not going to lie. Why don't we go next to Matt from Tennessee? Matt, welcome to the program. What's on your mind today? Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Awesome. So my question for you is that, you know, Republicans and the right wing stuff, they keep on going down, you know, the extremism path that i keep saying they're going down you know the project 2025 is the thing that's very scary to me specifically it's something that i've been saying about the whole all over the place seeing people talk about the contents of

it and their plans and you know all this different stuff and i am just terrified that if they actually try to put this stuff into your policy and put it into actual, you know, whatever, that it will have disastrous consequences and we might become like right wing fascist, whatever. So that's been on my mind a lot. But also something that's been on my mind a lot is that let's say Biden wins 2024, Democrats win. They get back the House because that's projected to what's happening, at least right now. And, you know, we avoid that kind of situation for right now. What is to say, like, what is the end point to this? Where will they say, OK, it's not working, this is not being electable, you know, all the candidates that were running on these positions are kind of losing. And if they're associating with Trump, they're kind of losing.

Oh, I see what you're saying. You're sort of saying like if Trump does lose in 24, what becomes of MAGA Trumpism? Yeah, I just I just see it like is there a point, you know, where we have like a project 2029 that will go deeper into these views and, you know, we will just go they'll go farther into it and burrow. And, you know, with like, is there an end point to this? Is there a point where they will try to abandon that stuff or at least listen? Here's my view on this. Now, this may be naive.

I believe that if Trump loses in twenty four and some of these MAGA candidates also lose in twenty four, I'm not saying this is the end of MAGA, but I think it's a major, major injury to MAGA. And at that point, you would probably see some MAGA people kind of try to make the transition into being so-called normal Republicans, non non MAGA Republicans. And then if Trump loses in twenty four, he's going to be 80 next election. He'll be eighty four or almost or whatever. I think that if we can avoid Trump in 24 and maybe

knock out from from the House, some of the other MAGA people, I think it's the beginning of the end of MAGA Trumpism. That's why I think so much is right. There's it's such an inflection point in 2024. It really is. You know, I'm I'm in Tennessee, obviously, and it's one of, if not the most conservative state in the country. And it's just everywhere i look is that kind of stuff and i've even had threats of violence against me because i've expressed my views like i've uh i was driving down the road like a few years ago around the election of 2020 and i had like a vote democrat thing on my bumper sticker and someone in like this big white truck and just big Trump guys try to run me off the road and try to harass me and stuff like that.

It was a very scary situation. It was something that you really may realize, like these people think that I am like the devil, you know, they see, they've been watching all these news stories and they're just focused on all the stuff telling me like, you know, I'm the enemy. These people are out to destroy America and we have to do everything, you know, in all these patriots, quote unquote, that are taking the law into their own hands and trying to

do all this stuff. It's so scary. Yeah, I feel for you. I feel for you. All right. Well, I appreciate the call. Thank you. Of course.

All right. Matt from Tennessee. Let's take a quick break. If you're still holding on to talk to me, just hold on a moment longer. We'll be right back and take more calls in a moment. One of our sponsors today is Manscaped. They make excellent products. You've got the lawnmower 5.0 ultra. This is Manscaped's fifth generation body trimmer and groin trimmer. You've got two next gen blade heads, your standard trimmer blade for taking off a little bit of hair, the foil blade for taking off a bunch of hair. All of Man's Scape's devices are waterproof and perfect for the shower. You'll also want to pick up Man's Scape's crop soother aftershave lotion and crop preserver

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Quinn Peebles, welcome to the program. What's on your mind today? What's going on? Speaker 1 Hang on just a second. Speaker 2 Quinn. Speaker 3 Oh, hello. Hey, can you hear me? Yeah, you're on the air. Speaker 1 OK, perfect. How are you doing? Doing well. Speaker 2 Good. Good. Well, I wanted to talk to you for a second about um the uh let me real quick the economy said right yeah as a capital markets analyst for um about a billion

dollar asset management company um and i it's my personal contention that I think your assessment of the kind of economic wellbeing under the Biden presidency is kind of misguided. Okay. And I think that because there's a lot of attention being paid to the, sorry, there's a lot of attention being paid on the consumer side, but there's not enough attention being paid on the producer side of the economy. And on the producer side of the economy, there are still kind of recession level red flags popping up. And so I kind of wanted to get your commentary on that side of the economy. Yeah. So what are the indicators you're referring to? Yeah, sure. So one of them would be the producer price index, which is still showing,

you know, relatively higher than, I mean, it's higher than the consumer price index. And then additionally is an indicator known as the producer production levels or industrial production levels, which are actually showing contraction on a year over year change basis. OK, yeah, I pulled those up as you mentioned them. You're not wrong that those don't look as rosy as some of the other indicators. Everything I know about those indicators is that they are lagging indicators relative to some of the other indicators we usually look at. So I think you're correct that they don't look as good. I think that it would be expected at this point because we're just getting inflation down. We're just starting

to get to the point where some of these more leading indicators are looking better. So I don't disagree with you. I just don't think you're really contradicting that big picture by the five or six major metrics that are used to evaluate an economy. It's not a perfect economy, but it's pretty good. It's pretty good. Speaker 1 right. And I think I think that's part of the issue is because like the industrial production indicator is pretty big. And I think that there's a lot of attention paid on the kind of, you know, private consumer side to, you know, real GDP growth or the CPI or to all of the other indicators to which, you know, kind of amateur economists are familiar with.

But but I think the thing, Quinn, with respect that you have to understand, and I think you probably do, is industrial production moves far more slowly and on a significant delay from something like the decisions that households make. If you decide you're going to go and buy a car, you might have the car within a week or two of making that decision. If you decide you're going to go and buy a house, typical closings are 30 to 60 days. Industrial production is much more long term and scheduled in advance. it moves way more slowly and on a much greater delay. So it makes sense to me that it might take a year before we see that indicator look better, if indeed it's going to. You know, I'm not I'm not entirely certain that I agree with that

assessment, that there's a significant lag. Like I I think that I think in general and from a 40,000 foot view, logically, you're probably right. But I would point to what's that. That's what I'm talking about. I mean, it's, it's again, if you're saying we're going to start producing more construction beams, steel beams, uh, that's a very long long term thing to say. Let's accelerate the scheduling of that production. Let's get the raw materials. Let's do it. Let's ship it to the United States for future build. That takes a long time compared to, hey, I'm going to buy a car in a week. I've got a car. Right now, I mean, and I and I I hear you on that, but I think that I think it comes down to an honest just misunderstanding of what the index is, which is, you know, industrial production. I mean, it sounds like what we're talking about, you know, of establishments in the U S right. And so it includes things like

restaurants and grocery stores and everything else. Um, but you know, not necessarily like sales, but production levels. And so, you know, when it comes to consumer goods, right. I'm sorry, Quinn, but what you're saying is just completely wrong. I'm so sorry. But Industrial Production Index is capacity and production in manufacturing, mining, electric and gas. It has nothing to do with restaurants. OK, well, in any case any case, I appreciate the commentary. I think we're maybe getting into an area where you're not as informed as maybe would be useful.

But I got 50 people waiting, so I'm going to move on. Okay. All right. Take care. All right. Thanks, Quinn. Yeah, just got a little off track there with some stuff that just wasn't. That's just not what the Industrial Production Index measures.

Okay, let's go to an undecided voter. Our friend Aubrey from Wisconsin. Aubrey from Wisconsin. Welcome back to the program. What's on your mind today? Hi, can you hear me? Yes, I can. OK. Hi, Mr. Papin. OK, cool. I'm trying to find the question I was going to ask you. Okay. You're trying to find it. Where is it? I DMed it to a friend of mine because I wanted to make it sound intelligent.

Cool. Which I found, I don't like sound very adjumicated, which I do have like an, I honorably have a undergrad degree. So I promise you, like I'm usually smart. All right. Well, go ahead. What was the question? Good morning, by the way. Um, so I wanted to ask you, I personally find the way that, um, the way that the government, um, the government corporations, um, universities, and even Hollywood have been reacting to criticisms of Israel, have been

criticism of what, Aubrey? A theory? No criticism of Israel is is no Israel. Israel. OK, criticisms of Israel got it. Israel have been outright McCarthy is part as part theistic okay word um i was wondering what your opinions of that are because i think it's actually kind of worse because during like mccarthy times like the red scare and stuff it was just like the idea of like commies versus now it's like people kind of afraid of, they literally just passed a

law recently that equates anti-Zionism to anti-Semitism. Who passed the law? A law was passed where? In house. Like I will literally link it to you. Yes. Unironically, a. A bill in the House was passed that equated anti Zionism to anti-Semitism. Oh, but it's not a lot. So the House passed the declaration. Yeah, we can argue about whether that's true, but they didn't know laws were passed. The declaration was passed. But let me ask you, give me a specific example of this McCarthyistic sort of thing that you're talking about.

OK, yeah, based I could totally do that. Right. Um, this, this whole show trials bringing these, um, heads of universities into the, um, in front of these, um, like congressmen, right. Who are absolute clowns, like yelling at them saying, are you doing enough? Are you doing enough to protect your Jewish students? When like, this is like, and by the way, this literally happened a week after those like three boys, who are all college students themselves from Trinity and Brown and I forgot the third university were literally shot and one of them was paralyzed, right? And also, like, how do you say? So yes, of course, like protect your friggin Jewish students. But also, like,

why don't you ever mention any abuses that happened to Palestinian kids? Because they were obviously Palestinian, right? They had like they were wearing gufayas, which I have like two in my closet right now. Right. It's a very specifically Palestinian garb. So I just don't get it. It feels like a very show trial. Very very like I stand of Israel. I do this. I do that. Like, yeah, you know, in a sense, I agree with you, Aubrey. And also, I can't help but notice that the answers on is it OK to call for the genocide of Jews from the three presidents were a disaster to the point where alums, students and faculty all were like, this is crazy. You got to go. And that that ended up happening at UPenn. It didn't happen at Harvard or MIT. So I can kind of see both sides. I mean, a lot of the people participating in those hearings were trying to get their 15 seconds

of fame or whatever. And that's absolutely the case. And also, I can't imagine worse answers from the three presidents when they were just asked, hey, can you call for the genocide of Jews? And just imagine what the reaction would have been like if instead of Jews, it had been women or Palestinians or black people or whatever. Yeah. Listen, Aubrey, I'm super interested, actually, because you you vote in a critical state, Wisconsin, and you say that your vote matters.

You say you're undecided and your vote matters very much. Who are the candidates you're considering voting for? Biden and screw Trump. I'm not voting for either unless Trump like, you know, Trumpy like Trump be like on Palestinians right now, though he be talking about how much he doesn't like Maniahu. I'm not voting for him, but I could see some of my family members saying that. So who are you? So who might you vote for? You're undecided. Honestly, right in myself, I can no joke.

You'd write yourself about. Like, I'm not like, no, I'm not going to. Oh, I think so. It sounds like you are you just staying home then? I'm trying to understand. I'd go in just to vote for like people in my county. But you would you would you would do a no vote for president. Speaker 5 They all have blood on their hands. I think they're all evil. I'm not voting. And I think,

Aubrey, if I may, do you think that Biden and Trump have an equal amount of blood on their hands and whatever you mean by that? Speaker 4 So I've had arguments with people about this. So like hard, right? They're like, OK, like at least Biden is good for like trans people. And these Biden's good for like the blacks and all this. Like, you know, I like I like want to be a lot of protests and I speak out on like gay rights and like, do I'm like, wait, I want you to understand, Mr. Rockman, like I am trying so hard not to curse.

And I think you should be so proud of me. Yeah, we already have a couple of bleeps. So Aubrey, we unfortunately don't have unlimited time. And I would love I would love answers to a couple of these questions. So I guess my question is with I have to hold on, Aubrey. Wait, wait one sec. Whoa, hold on. I've spoken to you a few times on the show over the years.

My instinct is you probably agree with Biden on abortion. You probably agree with Biden on economics. You probably agree with Biden on gay rights. You probably agree with Biden on abortion rights. You probably agree with Biden on most foreign policy. So I guess what I'm wondering is if you're comfortable saying I'm going to stay home, even if that helps Trump win. Speaker 4 Yeah, and it comes to your concern, I'm a one issue voter. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 And you think Biden's as bad as Trump on that issue? So I'm curious, I will ask you, Aubrey, This is the last thing I want to ask. Joe Biden has urged restraint when it comes to Gaza. Joe Biden has imposed that. Hold on, Aubrey. Am I able to get the question out? OK. Joe Biden has said to Netanyahu, let the aid in. Joe Biden has warned Netanyahu let the aid in. Joe Biden has warned Netanyahu an overreaction will be a problem for you internationally. Trump just wants to basically bulldoze Gaza. Are those equal positions in your mind? In my mind, at the end of the day. Over 20,000 people are dead and barely any aid is coming in and there's like the troll like diseases like spreading. So now it doesn't matter to me.

It doesn't matter for you. The Biden and Trump positions are the same. Yeah. OK. All right. And I'm from Wisconsin. So great to hear from you. Things are otherwise good.

I know last time you were on, you were having some relationship problems. I hope everything's going OK. I'm turning into a trap on wifey now, so I'm good. Speaker 1 Sorry, what trap con Speaker 5 Trad con. Speaker 1 Oh, is that like a 1950s thing? Speaker 5 Yeah. Speaker 1 Oh, boy. All right, Aubrey, thank you for the call. Really appreciate it.

Speaker 5 Yeah, thank you. Speaker 1 All right. There is Aubrey from Wisconsin shot out of a cannon, ladies and gentlemen. And on that note, we will out of a cannon, ladies and gentlemen. And on that note, we will go to a break. We'll take calls again. We will do it. I'm so thankful for everybody I was able to speak to today and this year. And we are going to be back with so much more after this very short break.

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..... We'll be right back. Thank you, David. R.E.L. paper dot com slash Pacman and then use code Pacman. The info is in the podcast notes. If you're familiar with me and my show, you know that I don't promote crazy supplements, drinkable silver, wacky stuff that right wing shows do. I don't offer miracle cures or anything like that. I promote products that are backed by science and that makes sense at the end of the day. That's what our sponsor AG1 is. It's really simple. Instead of taking dozens of different vitamins, potentially spending hundreds of dollars on them. What I do is before my morning cappuccino, I have a scoop of AG1 in water. Simple. I get the entire day's worth of vitamins, minerals, prebiotics, probiotics. It's in a form that you can absorb and utilize. It tastes good. You can put it in a drink. You

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supply of vitamin D. The link is in the podcast notes. All right, let's get into the final Friday feedback on a Thursday because there's a guest host tomorrow before Christmas. The final Friday feedback before Christmas on a Thursday. Very special. Didn't want to miss it. You can email info at David Pakman dot com if you have something to say. Hopefully it's productive and substantive, but it isn't always. We're going to look at a few emails. We'll look at some Facebook comments. Maybe there'll be a tweet here and there. I don't know. All right. Let's start with a message from Declan. Declan wrote to

me and said, you will kneel before your new King Trump. When the time comes, you will fall in line and stand before our glorious new king of America, Donald J. Trump, Trump 2024, Trump 2028, Trump 2032, Trump 2036, Trump 2040. He'll be old by then. One nation under Trump. You will profess love on your channel for our king or we will shut you down. I posted this one to my social media. There was genuine disagreement among my followers in the comments as to whether this is real or satire. We went and looked at Declan's history of commentary and it unfortunately didn't shed any light, didn't shed any light on whether this is real or whether this is a joke. The fact that we can't tell. Is part of what is so extraordinarily

scary about this MAGA movement. You tell me, do you think it's real or do you think it's satire? Much more real. Thomas wrote in. Thomas doesn't like me. Thomas said, where are you getting your information? Yes, the impeachment inquiry is on and you're one of the deniers of evidence against Joey. For example, $200,000 direct payment. That's a repayment from his brother.

Whistleblowers, whistleblowers who have exposed no crimes. Plus, question mark reports zero against Biden with documents and the number against Trump. No mention from you regarding guard Corvette that Hunter with drug issues had access to the same. You know that they were able to hold it together like the first sentence. And then it becomes an unintelligible word salad. Continuing, it's one thing to hate and have patent prejudice against, but a denier of facts with CNN. Collins tried to the gotchas Trump and Abby interrupted Vivek. But does that deny the accuracy of the information from him?

Yes. Vivek provided no information that January 6th was an inside job. Thomas continuing you and the others, even Harry Sisson paid DNC shill. Very interesting spelling of shill devote. What part of your consideration based on facts, feelings matter matter more than facts for you, too. I. I know that these are native English speakers, OK? But we had there are so many people who are native English speakers and they write in and this is how they write. And I bring this up not to make fun of anybody, but to remind ourselves this is the sort of writing that comes out from the broken educational system that we have.

Just think about the lack of critical thinking and understanding of the scientific method and other basic concepts. If this is how people who vote Trump are writing, thanks to the failures of the educational system, we think they're going to figure out for themselves who the right person is to vote for, what what's in what what policy platform is up for debate. I don't know how we fix this, guys. I really don't know how we fix it. And it's not about making fun of anything.

It's about holy crap. We have a problem. We have semi literate. We have a large swath of semi literate or only barely literate people who are confident in their opinions that Donald Trump is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Or bread slicers, maybe. I don't know how we fix it. I genuinely do not know how we fix this. OK, Mr. Galloway writes in and says Biden's approval numbers are abysmal. Most of the recent polls I've seen show Trump beating him. There's no enthusiasm behind his candidacy. The Democrats are hoping that fear of the far right agenda will pull Biden over the finish line. I personally

don't think Biden can beat Trump. To be honest, I don't think he can beat DeSantis if Trump drops out or is unable to run. Well, I think if Trump drops out, Nikki Haley is going to be the nominee. But that's a different story. I think that this idea of no enthusiasm behind Biden couldn't be more wrong. It is true that Biden is not a cult like pop star entertainment type figure. And you don't have cultists who dress in Biden gear and, you know, wrap their car and vote in Biden gear or whatever. You have people who understand that Biden's a better candidate than Trump. And I believe that once Trump is officially the nominee,

you don't have to call it enthusiasm, but I'm going to call it commitment to voting Biden and preventing Trump from being president is going to be palpable. I am not when I think of my own enthusiasm, I don't say, well, am I enthusiastic about Biden? I am absolutely committed to taking any action I can take to prevent another four years of Trump. And that is hugely motivating to get me to go out there and vote in November. So that's the way I would see it. Stephen Jones writes in and says you're delusional, wrong, your and misspelling of delusional. Two words and two errors. OK, you're batting a thousand, Stephen. Really, really great job. Keep them coming. Anna Von Winkler said it's not a sad end to Chris Christie's career. He's going out speaking the truth and trying to warn

the Republican voters. I'm from New Jersey and didn't like him as governor, but I respect him for speaking up and running to save this country from Trump. I have respect for Christie as well. Doesn't mean I like them as governor. Doesn't mean I'm a Republican, but it also doesn't mean he's been consistent on this for a while. He stood behind Trump and said, this is the guy I'm endorsing. But I respect what he's doing now.

Marty Barrett says my favorite part is when Trump says, if if this was anybody else, they'd be in jail, says the guy who laps the heels of a guy who has night. Oh, no. Who is this even about? Pretty sure my favorite part is when he says, if this were anybody else, they'd be in jail. Oh, about Joe Biden. OK, some Republicans said about Biden, if this were anybody else, they'd be in jail. And Marty says, says the guy who lapsed the heels of a guy who has 91 criminal charges and counting, plus disobeying multiple gag orders. Pretty sure we all know who else would be in pretrial jail right now. Yeah, this is a good point.

You know, constantly Trump and his defenders are talking about how he's being treated so unfairly here in every way in these four criminal trials. Other criminal defendants with four different trials and four different jurisdictions with access to a plane and regularly violating gag orders would be sitting in pretrial detention. It is absolutely the case. And when Trump says if they can do it to me, they could do it to you. We know they could do it to us. They do it to us all the time. The question is, will an elite be held accountable? Will someone like Trump actually have consequences for the things he's accused

of doing if he's found guilty or takes a plea? Let's hope that the answer is yes. On the recent positive jobs numbers, which were met with disdain by some on the right. Kelly Stevenson commented on Facebook. So too many jobs and decreased unemployment is a bad thing now. Those are some impressive acrobatics. The flexibility is amazing. Yeah. Kelly, didn't you know there are too many jobs now?

It's we are dangerously fully employed and there are too many jobs now. It's we are dangerously fully employed and there are too many people working. The economy is too hot. Now, of course, there is some truth to if the economy gets overheated, you can start to see inflation. And this is part of why the Fed has put in place the interest rate policy that they have, which we now expect to be a couple of cuts in 2024, two or three. But as you can see, their argument is whatever is convenient at the time, not what is economically accurate. That's for sure. John Mattoon says, I am an avid supporter of Trump. I do criticize him, but you can't ignore his policies. It's funny. Liberals vote off of emotions and conservatives vote off of substance and action. Well, it's interesting to hear that from John, because every time a Trump supporter calls into

my show and I ask them for tell me the policies you like, they either misstate or misunderstand Trump's policies or can't even name them at all. It seems to me that Trump ism isn't even about policy and the promised policies don't come true. Wall with Mexico didn't happen. New health care plan didn't happen. New health care plan didn't happen. Fixing trade certainly didn't happen. Resolving the Israeli Palestinian conflict certainly didn't happen.

I think it's not they who care about policy. I think it's us. Let me know your thoughts. Send in your questions or criticisms to info at David Pakman dot com. Remember that. So we've got the bonus show today and then tomorrow we'll have a guest host. Next week, we've got the Christmas holiday and a couple of guest hosts and then I'll be back next week. So just so nobody gets upset or confused, I'll be off for a few days for vacation and then I'll be back and then it'll be the new year. And before you know it, it'll be the presidential election.

It's going to happen that quickly. I promise you.