The David Pakman Show - 12/30/22: Trump Taxes Released, Third Party Threats Begin

Episode Date: December 30, 2022

-- On the Show: -- The House Ways and Means Committee releases six years of Donald Trump's tax returns -- Donald Trump appears to threaten to run as a third-party candidate in 2024, which would effectively destroy the Republican Party -- Caller discusses what defines "Latino" or "Hispanic" -- Caller asks why more people aren't on the show -- Caller asks why David doesn't have an accent -- Caller talks about the phenomenon where homophobes end up being gay -- Caller talks about incels -- Caller asks what issues the left is getting wrong -- Caller wants our Discord moderators to get paid -- Caller asks how to debate people who are operating in bad faith -- David responds to viewer emails -- On the Bonus Show: Trump wanted to fire usher who helped Bidens, Andrew Tate arrested in Romania, Republicans respond to George Santos scandal, and much more... 🧻 Reel Paper: Use code PAKMAN for 30% OFF + free shipping at https://reelpaper.com/lemur 🛌 Get up to $350 OFF a Helix Sleep mattress + 2 free pillows at https://helixsleep.com/pakman 👍 Get 10% off the Füm Journey Pack with code PAKMAN at https://tryfum.com 🔊 Try Blinkist for FREE and get 25% off at http://www.blinkist.com/pakman -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Subscribe to Pakman Finance: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanfinance -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

Speaker 1 Well, ladies and gentlemen, let the insanity begin. Donald Trump's tax returns have been released and now we are all going to be pouring over them like the wannabe accountants that we all are. When COVID hit, we all became epidemiologists on Twitter and now we will all be tax accountants and tax attorneys, of course. Now, I'm exaggerating a little bit, but much anticipated. I mean, listen, it took years to get these things. So we are sure as hell going to be taking advantage of looking at these. The New York

Times reporting Trump tax returns released by House Democrats. The publication of former President Trump's private tax documents come amid questions about why did the IRS fail to fully audit him during his presidency, despite his claims, which we call lies, I call untrue claims lies, particularly when you know they're untrue, that he was under audit. I encourage you to check out the entire New York Times article as we speak. The documents are being analyzed. Now there's a good CBS News piece about what is it that tax

professionals are looking for? What do the returns actually show about his finances is one question. And this comes to how wealthy is he? What assets does he have? What asset values does he claim? Is there evidence of tax fraud and all of the other things that we have been talking about? What do the tax returns show about the amount of tax that he pays? That piece we had a report on from the House Ways and Means Committee based on the underlying documents. Now we're getting the underlying documents.

We know he paid very, very little in taxes, claimed losses some years, paid zero some years, got a refund some years. So that's going to be a big area of focus. How much money has Trump actually made, including from being famous? That's a question that will potentially be answered by the tax returns. How charitable is Donald Trump? And then some of these I don't think these are really the questions like how lucrative is it to be a real estate developer? It's more like how sketchy are Trump's sources of financing? I think that those are far, far, far more interesting questions. CNN has an early report on what is in there. And of course, the the one piece we learned right away, Donald Trump pays very little in federal taxes,

despite the fact that we know that he continued to enrich himself while he was president of the United States. CNN writing the returns long shrouded in secrecy were released today by the House Ways and Means Committee. They confirm a report from the Joint Committee on Taxation that Trump claimed large losses before and throughout his presidency that he carried forward to reduce or partially eliminate his tax burden. For example, in 2015, he carried forward a one hundred and five million dollar loss and in 2016, a 73 million dollar loss. CNN is reviewing the thousands of pages of these tax returns, I think, by early next

week, of course, if not later today, we are going to have far more detailed information about what is in these tax returns. Also interesting, this paragraph here included with the committee's report was an analysis of the numbers from each of the six Trump tax returns by the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation. Remember, they found that Trump paid seven hundred and fifty dollars in tax in 2017, nothing in 2020 and a combined one point one million in federal income taxes in 2018 and 2019. Trump regularly claimed huge operating losses, which you are allowed to carry forward. So the big takeaways, the big questions in no particular order. What will we

learn from the tax returns about Trump's wealth, about Trump's debts, about Trump's possible tax fraud? Question number one. Question number two, is Trump nearly as wealthy as he claims to be? I think we know the answer is no. What sorts of sketchy lending and debt sources does Donald Trump have that may have even been a conflict of interest while he was president of the United States? Will this play a role in the subsequent possible indictments coming against Donald Trump? And will anybody who would even consider voting for Donald Trump in twenty twenty four even care about what's in there? I believe Trump was correct when he said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose support. If he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose support,

is he going to lose support because of some light tax fraud or because he lied about his wealth? I don't think so. And so it's been a long fought battle. It's a matter of principle, I believe, at this point where every other president has released their tax returns other than Donald Trump. But will this actually have consequences? I find it really, really difficult to believe that it will. The next question is, does it even matter if Trump is destined to fail as the potential Republican presidential nominee? That's what I want to talk about next.

It seems Donald Trump may to some degree see the writing on the wall that he may not win the 2024 Republican primary. We've already speculated, as have a number of different writers. Is Trump even going to make it to the Republican primaries or will a lack of support all but force him to bail, maybe citing other interests, maybe citing health issues before a single ballot is even cast in the 2024 Republican primary? Well, there's another possibility that Trump does run for president, but not within the Republican primary.

And that seems to be what he is now threatening to do. Trump is site encourages Donald to run in a third party and he seems down. Former President Donald Trump. This is from Rolling Stone, who threw his nightmarish red cap back into the ring and launched a third bid for the White House, shared an article Wednesday that suggested he run as a third party candidate posting on Truth Social Central, the social media platform he started after being booted from Twitter. Trump promoted an article from conservative publication American Greatness staying true to the site's unofficial role as a Trump mouthpiece. Dan Geller, Geller, Geller, Geller, Geller. That's difficult, huh? Claimed that the RNC can pretend Trump isn't

loved by the base anymore and that Trump is still admired and even loved by those who consider themselves ordinary Americans. Geller, Geller, G terror compared Trump to the late President Teddy Roosevelt and suggested the idea of running third party. Although Geller and Turner admits that Trump running as a third party candidate would likely meet a similar fate to Woodrow Wilson. He declared his allegiance to the former president. Trump then reposted that. I guess you could say he retrothed it. And Mediaite reports Trump appears

to threaten third party run to split the Republican Party in half. We want the Republican Party to destroy itself. Democrats seem unable to destroy it and in fact, sometimes make very strange decisions that seem to almost prop it up. But it would be great if the Republican Party destroyed itself and a third party run by Donald Trump would splinter the party and it would absolutely undermine its own chances in future elections. Now, a key factor to consider when we think about this is if Trump runs third party, what impact does that have on Republican voters? What would the average Republican voter think? Because you have these Trump supporters that are fiercely loyal to an

almost cult like degree. They would certainly follow Trump if he ran as a third party candidate that takes votes away from the Republican Party. And we'll talk in a moment about why that is so important. That splits the conservative vote and opens the door for Democrats, even with a mediocre candidate, whoever the candidate ends up being to win elections. You could also see the Republicans that are less cult like but are sort of in the well, we're not I'm a conservative, but I'm not a Trump person, but I really don't like Hillary. I really don't like Biden. So I'm going to hold my nose and vote for Trump. That group that is already sort of turned off by Trump's rhetoric and by Trump's actions. If Trump runs third party,

that group of Republicans will absolutely see it as, OK, listen, I held my nose and I voted for Trump over Hillary and I voted for Trump over Biden. But that's because he was still within the party I support. Now that Trump is running third party, that's too much for me. And I'll either stay home or just vote for the Republican candidate, even if I know that it's an inevitability that with the vote split, the Democrat will win. So it could also hurt Trump with those reluctant Trump voters that are really more Republicans than they are mega people.

And then there could be the far reaching consequences for Republicans more broadly. If you have the vote split in that way and some people stay home and some vote third party for Trump, will they be as eager to go out and vote for Republican candidates for the House of Representatives? Will these folks who are kind of disgusted by what might happen within the Republican Party if Trump runs third party, will they go out and eagerly vote for Republican Senate candidates? So Trump running third party could be a delightful disaster for the Republican Party, not only at the presidential level, but also down ballot. Now, the math of it, for those who may not know or who need a refresher, is very simple.

The Trump third party run all but ensures a Democratic victory in the United States. Much to my dismay, I don't like the Electoral College system, but the way you win in the United States, much to my dismay, I don't like the electoral college system. But the way you win in the United States is you have to get a majority of the electoral college votes. That means that based on population, each state has a different number of votes or you might call them points. You need 270 points or votes to win. And the only way you get those in most states is by the only way you get any in most states is by winning the state's popular vote. If Trump were to run as a third party candidate, it is likely that he would pull enough votes away from the Republican candidate that the Republican candidate would lose,

but that he would also not get enough votes to win himself, meaning that a state that might have gone 55 45 to Trump could end up going something like, you know, just to make it up here, 45 percent to the Democrat, 35 percent to Trump and 30 percent to the Republican candidate. Most states do not have a 50 percent runoff threshold. Georgia does, but not all states do. And so Trump running third party would all but seal the deal for the eventual Democratic nominee. When you split the right wing vote, you make it easier for Democrats to win and you make it easy for Democrats to win with not even a majority of the vote. The real question becomes, is Trump dumb enough not to understand the reality of the math and or is Trump narcissistic enough to think that this is a good idea?

I hope the answer is yes to both. And as I've said many times before, as an observer of politics, mean I'm talking about myself now. I don't care about the Democratic Party. I'm not a Democrat. I just vote for whoever I think is going to do the best job. But I recognize the dynamics, the party dynamics that exist. I would love to see the Republican Party damage itself in exactly this way. Whether Trump

will do it, whether the Republican Party has some failsafe remains to be seen. Let me know your thoughts. And folks, make sure as we wrap up 2022 and get into 2023, make sure you are subscribed to the YouTube channel. It costs nothing. It affirms what we do and it helps us in YouTube's algorithm. We're fighting for two million YouTube subscribers. It is not a level reached by too many progressive YouTube channels. Help us get there. More than three million of you regularly watch our clips, but don't subscribe. Nothing changes for you. You can still eat whatever food you like. You can still watch whatever shows you want. You just hit subscribe and you get us a little bit closer to that two million threshold.

We'll take a quick break and be back right after this with the final show of the year. Our sponsor, Real Paper makes toilet paper 100 percent from bamboo, never from trees, meaning no deforestation, sustainability and climate change can be a tricky topic for people of all ages. It can be particularly challenging to talk about with kids. And Real Paper recently launched the Little Lemurs box, a 24 pack of their bamboo toilet paper with a beautifully illustrated kids book that tells an exciting story of sustainability. The box is designed to spark creativity and kids create an opportunity to talk about deforestation, plastic pollution in a way that's light and easy. And with the holidays here, the book makes a great gift for a little one on your list. Real Papers, Little Lemurs Box and all of the other products are available in easy,

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now to get yourself a discount. Let's get to phone calls which aren't really using the phone. They're using discord. You can find the discord at David Pakman dot com slash discord. Join the waiting lobby. Let's hear from some people. And remember, you will not be called on if your name is set to like a nickname or something like that. We need your name and where you are calling from. Let's start. Let's see if this works. We're going to try it. We are starting today with Kevin from Arlington. Let's see if I can bring Kevin in. And here is Kevin. Kevin, welcome to the program. What's on your mind today? Speaker 4 Hi, David. I actually didn't request to speak. So I've got to come up with something. Speaker 1 Oh, my goodness. OK, you had it looked like you wanted to be on today.

Speaker 4 Oh, I didn't think I had that. Speaker 1 I'll move Kevin to the back to the audience so he can come up with a question. OK, let's try instead. We will try. How about Chris from Texas? Chris from Texas. Welcome to the program you are on. And I would love to hear what's on your mind today.

Speaker 5 Hey, David. You are on and I would love to hear what's on your mind today. Hey, David. So I guess one thing I was wondering is that I guess with the new Pokemon games being based off of Iberia, it always had me interested in now Latin American culture. So one question I had is like, for example, how do we define Hispanic and Latino? Is it by ethnicity or nationality? Oh, we you know, we've looked at this before. There's two different camps on this issue. There's one camp that says Hispanic and Latino are two completely different things. And there's another camp that says this is more a semantic argument in the modern era than it is

really about differences. And you can use the terms interchangeably. I, it depends on what your perspective is. One view is Hispanic means of Spanish origin, whereas Latino means from Latin America, which is basically like what's Latin America. I guess Latin America is the Spanish speaking countries in Central and South America. Like a lot of people say Brazil is not really Latin America. It's I don't know. I don't know how important it is to keep going with that, because is it is it increasingly just like a semantic question, you know?

Yeah, I guess because I was always confused because I know you're from Argentina, right? That's correct. And I know like one thing I was always confused about with Argentina is that it has a large Italian population, which kind of surprised me at first when I learned about Argentina. Yeah, so I was kind of. But let Italians aren't necessarily like Latino, though, or Hispanic. Speaker 1 Right.

Well, that's another thing. Like, why am I? Why am I his Latino or Hispanic. Right. Well, that's another thing. Like, why am I why am I Latino or Hispanic in the United States? Ethnically, I'm an Ashkenazi Jew. If my family had moved from Ukraine to the U.S. rather than from Ukraine to Argentina to the U.S., my genetics would be exactly the same. My ethnicity would be the same, but I would not be Hispanic. But per the way that the census is written, I'm Hispanic. So I don't know. You know, these these things are sort of confusing to some degree. Yeah, OK, I understand. Thanks for the call, David.

All right, Chris, from Texas, thank you so much. Let's stay in Texas a little bit and go to Rick from Southeast Texas. Rick from Southeast Texas. What just it's a Texas sort of day, you know, Rick. Rick Welcome. Rick you have self muted. You can unmute yourself and then you'll be able to talk to me. Oh, boy. Rick you there, buddy? Do you hear me? Yes, I can. Hey, sorry about that, David.

Hey, so I really wanted to call in about something more meta, perhaps the origins, oranges of your show. So I've been always wondering, you know, with your show, I mean, you're a one man show and respectfully you that's where you should be. But have you ever thought about like other channels incorporating other people into your show? Not saying you should, but it's a thought or or, you know, something like that. I really want to see your your your program, you know, explode and and grow.

So what are your thoughts on that? Yeah. I mean, listen, every program is different. And sometimes people will write to me and they'll say, you know, David, your program would be better if you had an ensemble cast where you had a whole bunch of people behind a desk or whatever. You know, your show would be better if you didn't take calls or if it was all calls or if you did no interviews or all interviews. The thing about it is every show is where it is because of the way that it has been produced.

And I am always very skeptical of saying if I make this show more like another show, it will do better because maybe that's not the way this show is supposed to be. So the way we produce the show, it sort of makes the most sense the way we're doing it right now. And the way that I do the sort of ensemble thing is I'll appear on other shows like next month. I'll be on the Patrick Bet David show down in Florida or maybe in Florida. Actually, I forget where they film. And I've got some other appearances coming up. So that's the way I sample different formats rather than like changing what we do. It's by appearing on other shows that kind of do it differently, if that makes sense. Absolutely.

No, I agree. And I think that's what makes her feel a little bit more more special, as you know, you kind of really get to know you and and we hope that we get to see more from you soon. I'm a I'm a Florida, Florida, whatever you say, transplant. So I really hope you enjoy the sun down there, David. I'm looking forward to hopefully good weather. Absolutely. Of course. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day. All right. There is Rick from Southeast Texas. Very, very powerful declaration and questions, all of which we love. Remember, we're taking calls via discord. If you want to be on, you have to have a nickname

that includes your name and location. So I see a lot of one word nicknames and stuff like that. Just it's totally fine. You just won't be called on. Let's go next to Daniel in Tampa. Daniel in Tampa. I would love to welcome you on to the program. And here is Daniel joining us from Tampa, Florida. Speaker 1 I David, can you hear me? Speaker 2 I can hear you fine. Speaker 1 Wow. I should be listening for two years. I just listen to everyone else talk for a while. Speaker 1 Welcome. Speaker 2

Yeah, I actually have a couple of questions. I know that you're from Argentina, but when did you move to the States? Because I don't hear an accent like at all when you speak. Speaker 1 Well, I was five years old and I jumped right into English. So, yeah, I mean, other than not knowing whether the word is anomaly or anomaly on most words, you know, you can't tell that that I'm not. I'm essentially a native speaker. Right. I mean, it's sort of a joke on the program where I say I may be misunderstanding Herschel Walker because I speak English as a second language. That's not really why I can't understand Herschel Walker. You know what I mean? Speaker 4 Well, I don't think anyone really understands exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 1 I have one other question. You know, I believe it was a May twenty twenty one show. Oh, boy. You know, I want to. Yeah, I show. Oh, boy. You I want to. Yeah, I want to try and quote you. You said that Argentina has a very bad history of hiding nonwhite Argentinians. What do I have to Google that a Google that in order to read like, oh, I don't think I did it. You're saying I said of hiding nonwhite Argentinians. Yeah, like you said, they have a bad history of high of something like hiding.

It's not hiding. Well, so there's two different things. OK, let me let me break it down. So there's two you might be mixing two different things. Argentina has a history of hidden Nazis in the country. That's one thing. And Argentina has a horrible history in like there's a reason why there's almost no black people in Argentina.

And it's a very, very ugly history of racism towards black people like years and years and years ago. I think that was the second one. What would I have to Google in order to be upon it? Because that's the first time I've ever heard of that history of African immigrants in Argentina would probably turn up a bunch of stuff. I would go to scholar dot Google dot com. I'm sure there are papers there.

OK, yeah, I'll Google. But yeah, that's only really two questions I have for you. All right. Thanks. Things are things are good in Tampa. Yeah, just a little bit cold. So going to the cold front, it dropped down like 30 in the weekend. But so I'm going to I heard it's going to go back up to 80.

Yeah, yeah. I hope the weather is good when I get down there at the end of January. Oh, yeah, probably be a lot warmer than so beautiful. All right, my friend, thank you for the call. Yeah, me too. All right. There we go. I don't know, guys, I think the new systems is working pretty well here using using the new system and discord. Why don't we the one thing, by the way, if moderators are listening, it's hard to see people's full nicknames because they just go to ellipses. And so it would be interesting if there was some way to to deal with that. But we can we can sort of workshop that as we go. Let's go next to Casey from Georgia, if you please. Casey from Georgia. Welcome to the program.

Hey, long time listener. First time caller. Oh, great. Thanks, Casey. Welcome. Yes, I got a quick question. I've been seeing these ads on YouTube shine a light on anti-Semitism. And it's about I don't know if you're aware of it, but I agree with

most of what they say about like the model minority stereotype and like people complimenting people how that's actually anti-Semitic. But the one thing I disagree with was that they said that if you call Israel an apartheid state, that's inherently anti-Semitic. And I was wondering what your opinion. I don't think calling Israel an apartheid state is inherently anti-Semitic. No, I mean, the word that's doing a lot of heavy lifting there is inherently I don't think it's inherently anti Semitic. Speaker 4

Well, thank you. That was my question. Speaker 1 All right. Casey from Georgia. Very good. Appreciate that. Let's see. Where are we going next? Let's go to Sal from mall. I guess is it is it Malden, Mass or Marlboro? Oh, from Malden. Sal from Malden.

Welcome. You there, Sal? Sal, you're on live right now, but no one can hear you. I'm guessing you have the wrong audio device selected. And Sal is gone, powerfully gone. That was wild. Let's invite Luke from Michigan to speak today. Luke from Michigan.

Tell me what is on your mind today. I would love to hear from you. Speaker 4 Hey, David, can you hear me? Yeah. What is it? Was that a chinchilla in the background? What was that? Oh, no, that's my desk chair.

Oh, that's your chair. Oh, my goodness. I thought it was an animal. No, I'm a I'm a long time caller, not a long time listener. First time calling beautiful. I didn't really have a question. Oh, to be fair, I was just kind of like listening in. Well, can I ask you a question? Go for it. How did you first stumble across my content?

I want to say you were. I saw some videos on YouTube and then also I watched your live streams of like the Trump rallies. Oh, OK. So most basically YouTube was the platform where you came across the content. Yeah, that's correct. And let me ask you this. This is just like kind of a focus group. Once you found the content on YouTube, did you consume content anywhere else?

Like did you then say, oh, I might follow and watch your TikTok videos or are you just within the YouTube universe, basically? YouTube at first, but then I found your discord and Twitch, so I followed you and subscribed on there as well. Interesting. All right. Very good. Well, anything I can do to improve the show, sir? Speaker 4 00 00 00 Speaker 1 No, I really enjoy it. Speaker 1 Beautiful. Well, good to hear from you. I appreciate it. Speaker 4 00 00 00 Speaker 1 You too. Thank you. Speaker 1 All right. Luke from Michigan. Very, very important. There is a there is an option to request

to speak also, but I'm just kind of going around and calling different people so we can we can figure out how that all is going to work. Let's go to where we go here. Let's go to Jessica from Indiana. Jessica from Indianapolis. Welcome to the program. Speaker 4 Hi, thanks. I'm going to like everyone else. I've been a long time listener, but first time caller. Speaker 1 Pleasure to have you. Speaker 4 Two questions, if that is OK. Sure. So currently I'm introducing Indiana local legislation. As you might be aware of, Indiana is very much a red state, and I'm currently trying to introduce legislation to add queer people under hate crime protection laws. Currently this is being drafted by a family friend of mine and state representative Renee Pack.

Okay. being drafted by a family friend of mine and state representative Renee Pack. OK, I believe to my understanding this it is being drafted. It has not been introduced. Should I be preparing some sort of like speech to talk to the Indiana House when the bill has been introduced? I have absolutely no idea. Unfortunately, Jessica, I don't know the specifics of the process there. I just wouldn't be able to advise you on that. If there's a possibility that you will be speaking, it would be your call whether you prepare a speech.

That's fair enough. Second question, since you don't really have that one. Let me see if I can try to find it. Okay, never mind. I cannot find it. Why do you, do you think it's a coincidence that it always ends up being the people that try to get queer books and stuff of that nature banned from schools that end up being caught having predatory issues when it comes to like, well, it's not always the case. It's not always the case, but there is certainly a history of that where some of the most fervent homophobes end up being gay, for example. But I don't know that I have any broad, you know, I'm not sure I have anything else to say about it, but we've covered a number of cases in which it has happened, certainly. Speaker 1 OK, awesome. That's all I really had. All right. Great to hear from you, Jessica,

from Indianapolis. Great to talk to you. Just so everybody knows, there's people trying to call me directly on discord. You're just going to get blocked. I just can't deal with that. We have a process and it's through the it's through the waiting, the waiting lobby. We do have a function that allows people to request to speak. And I don't know why it's getting turned off. It's very, very strange. But let's try going to Aubrey from Wisconsin if we can. Aubrey from Wisconsin. Welcome to the program. What's on your mind today? Hi, can you hear me? I can hear you fine. Okay, cool. Okay. So I've spoken to you before, like once, but okay. Beautiful. Sorry. I have one question for you. I don't really know what to ask, but i was just curious what is your views on like this in cell culture because like i feel like it kind of rose about with the internet so like i'm like hella i'm like

old gen z right so like i just like turned 24 which is super cringe but it's cringe to be 24 aubrey what does that mean it's a a call. I'm like old, right? Like, I don't know. Like when I turn 25 next year, I'm going to get like, I don't know. I'm like, so Aubrey, whenever you swear, we have to bleep it. So please try to limit the swearing. And producer Pat, please make a note. We've got a sensor that we've got to bleep that.

Aubrey, did you once call in? And even though you're from Wisconsin, it sounded like you had a Long Island accent. Is that who you are? Yeah, yeah. OK,, did you once call in and even though you're from Wisconsin, it sounded like you had a Long Island accent. Is that who you are? Yeah. OK. I remember you. I remember you. All right. That's so cute. Romantic. No. OK. So I want to know what your view of like incel culture is, because these red pill people are cringe and weird, like Kevin Samuels, who like always talked down to women and like basically, you know, told them, you know, you're never going to find a man. You're going to die at 35 because you think you deserve someone better.

And then he ended up dying alone, making love to a random woman. You know what I mean? So I just wanted to do your perspective on that. OK, here's I don't know about the people you're mentioning, but here's my I actually did a segment on the Wednesday show about incel culture. Here's the thing. Incels are often seen as failures in society. They are made fun of and on and on and on. And I think that this is really the wrong approach, particularly because it's part of the whole incel thing is it's extremely antisocial in a way. And sometimes

the incels end up committing acts of violence. Like we've seen elements of incel interwoven into sometimes mass shootings and other events. So I believe we actually need to reach out to incels and we need to actually work with them. And I don't know whether it's therapy groups or what it is, but we need to really provide the resources to both develop skills and build confidence, because a lot of it is a self fulfilling prophecy where the incels lack confidence and then they're made fun of. So they're even less confident and then they can't get, you know, typically it's like heterosexual men that women won't talk to.

They get more depressed. So we need to do we need to do something. I think it's they're highly targeted and often made fun of. But I think we actually need to be doing more to help the incels. No. OK. OK. I respect that.

Right. Completely. Yeah. But. No, OK. I respect that. Right. Completely. Yeah. But. No, no. Like, listen, right. Single sex out of love and stuff. Right. Like it's like these people who think they deserve sex because we women. Please, Aubrey, let me make a declaration. There is a small portion of people who think the way to solve incel is to force women to have sex with the incel men. I do not think that that's the solution. I think that's crazy. OK, good.

I'm glad we cleared that up. OK, I just want to say that to any men online who are listening to this, do not tell a woman she is an ugly whore just because she does not want to go out with you. Cringe. Weird. You're stupid. All right. Speaker 1 Very important advice and useful, hopefully, to many people in our audience or maybe in other audiences. I don't know necessarily to my Aubrey. Great to hear from you again. OK, thank you. I don't know if Aubrey who Aubrey is laughing at, but a lot of laughing going on there. All right, folks, let's take a very quick break.

We're not ending calls. So if you want to get on, just hold on, because we're going right back to the discord lines in a moment. Thank you. and behavioral science to trade out your negative habit for a positive one. Fume is not a vape. It's a non-electronic device designed to transform your negative habits instead of pods filled with potentially harmful chemicals like a vape. Fume uses cores infused with plants like peppermint and cinnamon for delicious natural flavors. Fumes new version two model is snappy and tactile with an adjustable airflow dial and a magnetic end cap that's fun to fidget with. It's Fume's goal to make switching easy or even enjoyable. They have thousands of five-star reviews from people just like you

who have successfully switched when other solutions didn't work. Head to tryfume.com and use the code PACMAN to get 10% off today when you get the journey pack, which comes with three unique flavors and the new version to fume. That's T-R-Y-F-U-M.com. Code PACMAN saves you 10% on the journey pack. The info is in the podcast notes. Let's continue hearing from our audience. We take calls via discord at David Pakman dot com slash discord. You can join the waiting lobby and we have a number of really great people who want to chat because I tried to go to him earlier and it failed. Let's try going back to Sal from Malden. Sal, welcome. Are you equipped to speak?

Yes, David, can you hear me? Yes, I can. Sal, welcome. Oh, awesome. I'm so sorry about earlier. I've been a fan watching since 2018. Big, big fan. Thank you. I just had a question. More on relating on. Are there current topics? that you feel that are not as talked about or are considered new fields that the left hasn't really tackled on?

Not so much. I mean, I think there's a couple of issues that I would like to see the left become sort of like revise the default view and become more informed about. I would say GMO food and new nuclear power would be two areas where I think the left has been reflexively and I'm talking about the left broadly, but not everybody within the left anti GMO, even though there's no evidence GMO foods are bad for you by virtue of being GMO and reflexively against nuclear power on the basis of the dangers posed by 40 year old technology, which is not what would be built today. I'm not going around saying let's eat as

many GMOs as possible or let's just switch 100 percent to nuclear power. I'm not saying either. But sometimes in conversations with some on the left, they're like, oh, GMOs are bad. Nuclear power is bad and it's unsafe. And I just those are two areas I've researched somewhat extensively. And I just think a lot of the default reactions from people on the left are wrong on those issues. Speaker 3 OK. Yeah, definitely on the GMOs is something that I have seen somewhat divided. I've actually seen I'm actually very pro GMO, but I've actually agreed with people on the right on some of these issues when it comes to using GMOs to whether they see it more as an economics, a benefit in the economics. I see it more as just being more efficient with food. But I find it at GMOs is something that the left has really, I guess, taken a deep, deep dive into.

Yeah, I don't know that it's like the number one issue that everyone's like, I got to learn more about GMOs. I think there's just a lot of people who are like, they must be bad. I don't know. It sounds bad. Genetically modified can't possibly be good. Yes. And off the top of my head, I've heard that in some countries in Europe, some GMOs are banned. Sorry, they're banned or bad. I guess banned. Oh, I believe was I may be misquoting, but. Is that a general view outside the United States that GMOs should be banned? I don't know enough about attitudes towards GMO outside the US, so I wouldn't be able to say it's really an empirical question. I just don't have the answer offhand, but it would be interesting to see. Oh, OK.

And I just had one quick question, please. So. I need a lawyer for my lays because this lawsuit is is just taking a huge toll. Do you have any recommendations for any lawyers? I don't. I know that your machines are under threat from Mike Pillow, but he's going to be distracted being RNC chair soon. So I think your lathe is going to be OK. All right. Sal from all the call. Very nicely executed. I appreciate that. We have so many folks here who want to chat today. Let's try Lily from Nebraska. Lily from Nebraska. Lily from Nebraska. Welcome to the program.

Hello, can you hear me? Yes. All right, cool. I've been a longtime listener, but this is my first time calling in. Well, welcome. So in regards to what you what you have stated previously about how it's difficult for many people in the U.S. to leave the country if the country were to be too far gone. Yeah. In terms of – I don't know a better way to say that, but I actually have found a very good way for people in high school to, um, to potentially leave, um, the country for college.

Like I've, uh, experienced a very easy process, um, with, uh, moving to Canada, uh, for university and it's actually pretty affordable. And so, um, I mean, it's just, it's the same thing as the U S college application process, except with a little bit more like you need to apply through immigration. But with that, I think a whole bunch of like people who are under 18 years old can consider that if that's useful for people of a certain age. I have family going to school in Canada as U.S. citizens. And yes, and there is a path. It's not super easy to just be like, I want to move to

Canada. Now I'm going to work in Canada forever. But there is a path where if you get into school in Canada, then once you're there, you can be authorized to work. And then if you work in Canada for a period of time, then you're authorized to actually get permanent status. And I don't know if it's like permanent residency or citizenship, but that's a great path for people of a certain age. Yeah, I mean, I know that obviously does not apply to people who are already past that age. Right. But yeah, in my specific circumstance, I'm planning on attending the University of Alberta for the next four years.

OK. And I also found out that people who are attending college in Canada actually are eligible for the Canadian rates for university, for graduate school. And that's fantastic. That is significantly cheaper than anywhere that you can go for the U.S. Yes, it is typically true. Yeah, there's no such thing as in- or out of state or in province or out of province in Canada. It's the same rate for everyone.

And so, yeah, I just wanted to get that out to people who are planning or who are looking for ways to get out of the US. All right, Lily, thank you very much for the suggestion. Speaker 1 Yeah, thank you. And I'll see you later. All right. Lily from Nebraska. Thank you very, very much. Let's try Nate from Rhode Island to see what's going on in Rhode Island. Nate, welcome to the program. What is on your mind today, Nate? Hey, David, how you doing? Doing well. So I just had a quick question for you. Are you interested in you thought about paying your mods before or now?

Sorry. Have I thought about paying for miles like for my car lease? Yeah. Have you thought about paying your discord mods or as an employee slash independent contractor type thing? Oh, not really. No. I mean, people volunteer and, you know, there's tons of people that want to do it.

And it's sort of a labor of love. But we've not we don't you know, we have moderators on YouTube. I think we've got like twenty fifteen on Twitch. There's a bunch on Discord, Reddit, et cetera. That's a lot of people total. It's really just if it's sort of more of like a hobby type thing, we I don't really see it as like an employment sort of thing. Fair enough. And then my other question was, did you know when your home

state in New York, that's where you're out of now, right? Yep. Speaker 4 CVS, I actually just found out is violating sick time laws, so I'll be contacting your Department of Labor to see what that's all about. Look forward to that. Speaker 1 Well, I have zero influence over the New York Department of Labor. I want to make clear to you, Nate, and so I will be fully recused from that action. Well, I will keep in contact and you'll hopefully know when the time comes. All right. Should I avoid New York CVS is for the time being? Absolutely not. Just kidding. Maybe Walgreens is the way to go. I don't know. I don't know what their practices are, you know? Yeah, as you know, is there probably the same?

They're all they're all become all big companies are like that. It'll break into law in some way, most likely. All right, Nate, let us know how the lawsuit goes, OK? We'll do have a nice day. There is Nate with extremely litigious, maybe one of the most litigious viewers, I would actually say, interestingly enough. All right. Let's go next to Sarah. Sarah Barra, I guess. I'm not exactly sure, Sarah.

Hi, how are you? I'm doing well. OK, so I have a question regarding information and debating like said information. So, for example, when we're debating against conservatives, right, about, let's say, Donald Trump's 17 new indictments or or his possible fate when it comes to Jan 6th. How do you deal with people who just say, oh, no, no, that's all a lie. That never happens. That's that's that's all your information is a lie. All your sources are not true, but my sources are true. How do you debate against that? If they are really in such bad faith saying all your sources aren't accurate and all of mine are, that's really, really extreme.

And so I don't even know that I would mess with that now. I think oftentimes it's not quite so it's extreme. It's I don't even know that I would mess with that. Now, I think oftentimes it's not quite so it's extreme. It's I don't really believe that you'd say, well, why not? Well, I don't trust the source. OK, what sources do you trust? How do you determine what sources are trustworthy? What evidence from which source could I present you that would change your mind about whether this particular thing is or isn't true? You have to start with a Socratic method of questioning to try to establish how they even determine what they can believe in general.

But when someone just if it's really as bad as every source you're looking at, it can't be trusted. You got to look only at my sources. I would honestly not even waste my time with people that extreme. Yeah, I would say I agree with that, especially when they're acting in such bad faith that it's almost impossible to have a good, like an actual conversation without them just like setting aside every single source that you have. Speaker 1 100 percent.

And by the way, we have a guide that's free for how to manage a lot of these conversations with people. The guide is at David Pakman dot com slash guide. I'm not selling anybody anything. It's just because you brought it up. It's like an eight or 10 page paper. It's a guide. It's free. And it gives you a lot of techniques actually for how to talk to these people. Oh, that's cool. I'll definitely be looking into that. Yeah. Thank you so much for answering my question into that. Yeah. Thank you so much for answering my question. My absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for the call. That will do it for today. But the new system on discord has been an unmitigated success, ladies and gentlemen. So

thank you to everybody who helped set it up, in particular the moderators. And we will take calls again and we will use a system like this one next week. Thank you very much. I love reading. I read every day, no matter how I arrange my schedule. I never have enough time to read all the books that I want, which is why Blinkist has been such an important part of my life for years now. Our sponsor Blinkist is the app that takes thousands of nonfiction books, boils them down into an explainer that you can read or listen to in just 15 minutes, which includes all the most important takeaways from the book with Blinkist. I can absorb the essence of 15 different books in an afternoon

so I can quickly gather insights from all sorts of perspectives, make connections, have those kind of aha moments that don't happen so easily, which is why I feel enriched when I use Blinkist. Blinkist also summarizes episodes of popular podcasts into 15 minute explainers. And with Thank you so much, David. seven days and get 25 percent off after that. Go to Blinkist dot com slash Pacman. That's B-L-I-N-K-I-S-T dot com slash Pacman. The link is in the podcast notes. All right. Let's do the final Friday mailbag of 2022. I know we are turning a corner that in 2023, the emails I get will be positive, constructive, not anti-Semitic. Who am I kidding? We know that that's not going to change. It probably will get worse. All right, let's get a mix of things that came in. Remember, info at David Pakman dot com is where you can email. We will also sometimes feature a message from Facebook or maybe something that comes in

on the YouTube channel or whatever the case may be. I heard from a gentleman and you be the judge as to whether they really are a gentleman who said to us on Facebook, you are stupid. Fox News is number one for a reason. That's true. I don't know that we would agree on what that reason is, but OK, Fox News is number one for a reason. I bred punk your Y.O. You are a pace of S. You're a pace wrong. You're, of course, going on to say you voted for by Don B.I.D.O.N. That's enough to prove you are capital S stupid. F you. Jesus is coming for you. Send you into Bernie Lava Cross Jesus. So this is a commentary about a disagreement this person has with me over economic policy, as I'm sure you can tell. Very productive, very actionable and very much

welcoming debate rather than shutting it down. Extremely important. Dwayne also wrote to me and I'm going to be careful with my pronunciation here. Wayne wrote to me, Fuke, you are pronouns. Now, they Dwayne said you're Y.O.U. apostrophe R.E. two emails in a row. First guy uses the wrong your Dwayne also uses the wrong wrong. You're saying I am pronouns. Apparently, you were pronouns. You never did answer when I asked, is psychology damage for a girl like your daughter to see a boy in a dress? It clearly is to me, to a dumb progressive. I don't know. I'm doing I'm struggling. And listen, I know English is my second language. Maybe it's my my language limitation that makes it difficult to understand this. I think what Dwayne is asking is, is it psychologically damaging for a girl like my daughter to see a boy in a dress?

You know, I think you could show my daughter just about any clothing item on anyone and she wouldn't care. She doesn't know what's going on that. I can tell you. No, Dwayne has real problems. And of course, few you are pronouns could be the name of a band. Quite frankly, few you are pronouns. And I would encourage a band to pick up that name. But Wayne continuing not to contribute productively to the conversation. Jen wrote in about Carrie Lake's election trial, which fortunately has concluded with the lawsuit in the trash, which is where it should be. Jen wrote, quote, Hi, David, huge fan of your show. I just moved to the Phoenix area from Sacramento, California. A local news channel here is doing a live stream of the Carrie Lake election trial is

what they're calling it. My question to you is, what is this trial going to solve or uncover? Well, it'll solve nothing and it will uncover no wrongdoing. And that's exactly what happened. Jen continues. It doesn't seem helpful in restoring trust in the election. That's not what it's for. The MAGA crowd will say the election was stolen if Lake isn't governor. And of course, Hobbs will be the next governor of Arizona. I'd love your thoughts on this. Yeah, Jennifer is completely right, which is, of course, the trial didn't overturn the election results because there's no evidence to suggest the results should be overturned.

So absolutely. The Trump ists will argue, as they are, that the trial itself was corrupt. And so even though now there's been a trial and the judge said, you haven't actually provided evidence of a stolen election, so we're going to dismiss this. Now it is that decision that is biased and the court that is biased. And it's this is what we call unending skepticism. Skepticism is good. Healthy skepticism is good. Hey, we should be satisfied that elections were handled properly. Oh, there are claims from Arizona. Let's explore the claims. None of the voting machines worked. OK. Truth is, a few tabulators briefly didn't work. Even the RNC has been satisfied that the election was not rigged. All right. So the tabulator thing

probably isn't good. Well, people weren't allowed to vote. You look at the affidavits, the affidavits say people who showed up after the polls closed weren't allowed to vote. Oh, well, that's the law. If you show up after the polls close, if you're not in line at the time the polls close, you're not allowed to vote that. So we were skeptical. We evaluated the claims. There's no evidence for them. We now move on. The unending skepticism is how conspiracy theorists end up in a rabbit hole out of which they cannot get. And that's exactly what we saw in Arizona. Peter wrote in and said, why the career change? Why did you go from being a English teacher? I guess Peter maybe should have been

in my class, a English teacher to a political hack. Now, of course, I was never an English teacher. Maybe Peter has me confused with some other host. I don't I don't know. But there's a lot of people in my audience painfully confused about what is happening on this show. Brian wrote in about gun deaths and said, David, in discussing the subject of guns and child deaths, you mentioned the instances when someone says limiting clip capacity wouldn't have made a difference in this specific incident. Tell them, no, maybe not, but it might make a difference in the next one. Yeah, this is a good point. You know,

as I've said before, I have put forward 10 to 12 suggestions for reducing gun violence, and no one suggestion would solve every problem nor prevent every shooting. The suggestions are widespread and broad. It includes eliminating any loophole that allows the transfer of a gun without a background check. As an example, limiting clip capacity, preventing people under certain ages from buying certain guns. No one of and other things. No one solution. No one change would be a solution to every shooting. But altogether, they would make a difference in total. And isn't it still good to reduce gun deaths even if you can't prevent every gun deaths? Isn't it better to prevent some, particularly when you can do so without placing any undue

burden on gun owners. Oh, a background check. OK. And without violating the Second Amendment to the Constitution seems worth doing to me. And Brian has a good addition, which is, well, maybe it wouldn't have prevented that one, but it might prevent the next one. I like it. Garrett wrote in seemingly obsessed with my party identification. Now, as many of you know, I'm not a Democrat. And what I mean by that is it's just a binary thing. Have I ever been registered as a Democrat? No. Have I ever donated to the Democratic Party? No, I'm not a Democrat. OK, Garrett wrote in and says you are a Democrat. Hi, David. Can you just embrace that you're a Democrat? I saw you once slightly rant about how you're a social Democrat. I don't even know what that means.

I mean, you can try to explain. I don't think you could. So Garrett's already confused. Democrat, capital D Democrat, which is what he's talking about, is a political party. Social democracy is a political ideology. It's not even one or the other. These are different categories of things. Now, some countries have a social democratic party. When I say I'm a social democrat, I'm not talking about

an allegiance to a party. I'm saying my ideology is I'm a progressive social democrat in terms of party membership. I'm not a member of the Democratic Party. Two different things. OK, Garrett goes on. It would be like, well, I believe in a strong social safety net, free regulated enterprise. Bravo. We all do. You seem like by all plain definitions in U.S. politics, a Democrat. So just be one. You're not special unless you have some example as a self-subscribed social Democrat who you're a huge supporter for. Who is that? Who is the big politician you love who is not a Democrat? And if you say who it is, please tell me their policies are any better than just a regular Democrat. I'm pretty sure you are just a Democrat, which is fine. But live your

life. Cheers, Garrett from New York City. Listen, Garrett, I don't know why you're so obsessed with my party identification, but I can't say it any other way. And if you're not understanding, I don't know what to do. I am not a member of the Democratic Party. The way I describe my views is that I am a progressive social Democrat, which is a regulated form of capitalism. Now everybody's policing my speech. Geez. OK, last one. Hey, instead of the December 24th donation thingy, can't you sell David Pakman NFTs? I seriously would pay ninety nine dollars to help support your great channel. But I want to see you in an astronaut suit, please. I know instead of doing the charity fundraiser we did, I should have done what Trump did,

which is I should have simply offered digital trading cards of myself in all sorts of strange and bizarre outfits. I'm sure they would have sold out in a day just like Trump's. But no, we're not doing that. We did the charity fund drive. And I think it was the right decision. We've got a great bonus show for you today. Get instant access to the bonus show by becoming a member at join Pacman dot com.

Not only will you get access to the bonus show, you a member at join Pacman dot com. Not only will you get access to the bonus show, you will also get commercial free audio and video streams of the show every day, hours before we publish them for everybody else. It's cheap. It's quick. It's easy. It's a great way heading into the new year to support independent media that you believe deserves support. Join Pacman dot com. You can use the coupon code 24 starts now and we will see you on today's show.