The David Pakman Show - 1/26/24: Viewer says it's time to panic, Rogan floats COVID lies

Episode Date: January 26, 2024

-- On the Show: -- A viewer says David is wrong and that the time has indeed come to panic about President Joe Biden's chances at re-election in 2024 -- Joe Rogan explodes in a rant about COVID, stating multiple false things as comedian Bobby Lee looks on -- Caller supports Nikki Haley for president -- Caller is a Trump supporting-conservative for some reason -- Caller talks about clueless Trump supporters -- Caller says David is derisive on religion and inflation -- On the Bonus Show: DeSantis's wasteful campaign spending, Peter Navarro gets four months in jail, GOP voters don't care about electability, and much more... 🖥️ UPLIFT Desk: Get 5% OFF with code PAKMAN5 at https://upliftdesk.com/pakman 👍 Use code PAKMAN for 10% off the Füm Journey Pack at https://tryfum.com/PAKMAN 🛌 Use code HELIXPARTNER20 for 20% off + free bedroom set at https://helixsleep.com/pakman 🧻 Reel Paper: Code PAKMAN for 30% OFF + free shipping at https://reelpaper.com/pakman 💻 Stay protected! Try our sponsor Aura FREE for 2 weeks at https://aura.com/pakman -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

. I want to start today with something that has now come up a few times. Most recently, it came up in a Reddit post. I'm going to show it to you. And it has everything to do with Joe Biden. User Dave CC said a thing that David keeps saying, but I believe is inaccurate. He meaning me. He mentions from time to time that it doesn't bode well for Trump because he's not gaining

new voters and some are leaving. That's true. But what's left out is the fact that Biden is also losing voters, young people disgruntled with the Israel Israel war, black voters, Muslim voters, Hispanic voters, etc. Who is losing more is the question Biden is losing from more groups. So it may be that Biden is at a net loss compared to Trump. Since you look at the slim margins that Biden won in swing states, it is not looking promising. For example, if young voters and Muslims leave Biden for supporting Israel, Biden is toast.

Also, if Biden does not support Israel, the other side of the conflict will leave Biden. So it is lose lose on that subject. Time to panic. Maybe. So where is this person right and where are they wrong? This sort of commentary is right in that you must consider not only has Trump gained or lost support, but as Biden gained or lost it.

If you look just at Trump in 2020, you say, as Simon Rosenberg told us yesterday, you have Trump from 2020 who lost now charged with 91 felonies, found to be a civilly liable rapist, found to have defrauded the state of New York and may lose his business license there. All these other things. So clearly, Trump must have lost support. Thirty five percent of New Hampshire Republicans say they won't vote for him. But on the other hand, you have to consider the Biden question. Now, to be very clear, we are speculating here. This is

all speculation. But my speculation does not coincide with what this viewer is saying. It is true that Joe Biden faces challenges in maintaining support with some groups, and that includes young people, black voters, Muslim voters, Hispanic voters. Sure. OK. Discontent with U.S. policy towards Israel. It may influence some voters, although I think the number will be small. So first, zoom out. Is anti-Trumpism as a voting motivator bigger or smaller than anti-Biden ism? We know anti-Biden ism exists in that Republicans hate the guy. Some Democrats say I'm disaffected with Biden. Yeah, there are slices of the electorate saying I'm angry with Biden over Israel. But do you really think when you zoom out that there is a larger anti Biden movement that's going to go out and vote Trump to spite Biden or stay home, even though there's a great

economy because they're upset about Gaza? I'm not saying they don't exist. What I'm saying is if you think about it deeply, the people most upset about Biden's handling of Israel are young voters who are the least likely to vote anyway. And they're saying I guess they're saying they'll stay home or they might vote Trump. It's not going to be a major factor. Now, on the other hand, you have 35 percent of all New Hampshire Republicans in exit polls saying I'm not voting Trump in November voted in the primary. I'm not voting Trump. That's 35 percent of the entire Republican primary voting public, including both Republicans and independents and obviously the small sliver of Democrats that voted in that primary.

You look at Iowa, the people who voted Haley overwhelmingly are not going to vote Trump. And many of them are saying we will vote for Joe Biden if Haley is not the nominee. These are dramatically differently sized groups. The anti-Trump movement is dramatically bigger than the anti Biden movement. Secondly, I'm not actually seeing any evidence that Joe Biden is really losing voters the way it's being portrayed. It is true that every president who runs for reelection loses some people who voted for them the first time. They're disaffected. They're not going to do it the second time. I don't deny there are people angry with Biden over, I guess, Gaza and beyond

that areas Biden hasn't done enough with. But as Simon Rosenberg told us yesterday, when you look at young people, the people who seem most upset with Biden about Gaza, even they aren't saying that foreign policy is most most or even at all important to them. And a lot of them don't even vote. Look at New Hampshire. Biden wasn't even on the ballot don't even vote. Look at New Hampshire. Biden wasn't even on the ballot. Biden was a write in in New Hampshire.

He didn't even campaign in New Hampshire and he got 56 percent of the vote in a multiway race, including against Dean Phillips, who focused on New Hampshire for months and months and ended up with 19 or something like that and was officially on the ballot. Biden didn't campaign, wasn't on the ballot and still got 56 percent of the vote. That is a signal if I've ever seen one. On the other hand, Trump picked judges who got rid of Roe v. Wade. And since then, Republicans have lost everything. Women are rightly furious.

They're going to come out for Biden, including some Republican women. But honestly, more than who is mad about Roe versus who is mad about Gaza. A lot of this is about turnout. A lot of this is about turnout. I struggle to believe that in large numbers, voters who would typically vote for the Democrat are going to go for Trump, go third party or stay home because they aren't as happy as they could be with Biden or because of Gaza or because he hasn't done enough on cannabis or whatever, when he, number one, has done so much on infrastructure, health care, student debt, manufacturing climate. And also because people understand what's at stake. If Trump is president, he's offering nothing that will improve the lives of Americans.

And he is promising to be an authoritarian lunatic and to go back to the same failed strategies of his first four years. So I'm not saying no one will do it. There's 330 million people in this country. Not all of them vote. Right. But I'm not saying no one will do it. There's 330 million people in this country. Not all of them vote. Right. But, you know, registered voters, et cetera. You're going to find people who do everything. People who voted Trump twice and stay home. People who voted Biden and vote Trump. You will find individuals who did all of these things. I really struggle to believe that this election is going to be determined by Biden would be voters staying

home for whatever reason. So we would like to see better polling. There's no reason to panic. There's no reason to assume Biden's got this. We say, hey, the economy is pretty good. We've all got to get out and vote. Biden is making a strong case for his reelection based on all the economic data and other accomplishments. And that's where we are. I'm going to play a clip for you from a recent episode of the Joe Rogan program. This was with comedian Bobby Lee. It really bums me out to see this. It really genuinely does. And I know there are people like me who have been on Rogan's show who won't ever criticize him because they don't want to not get invited in the future. I might never get invited. If he does

invite me, I'll gladly go on. But that's not how I make decisions. Joe is saying things here that are just wrong. Here is a covid rant where I don't know where he's getting this stuff. Let's listen. Yeah, but what I got, I was really bad but i i lived through it it was fine yeah yeah there's a lot of different things that were at play there first of all there was just general metabolic health that was completely ignored people told you all you have to do is get vaccinated that's horse your your immune system is complex and it relies on a bunch of different things to keep it effective relies on good nutrition it relies on sleep it relies on a bunch of different things to keep it effective. Relies on good nutrition and relies on sleep. It relies on low stress.

It relies on vitamins and nutrients. Now so far, it's not untrue that underlying health. This isn't even about covid underlying health. Circumstances do predispose you to handle viruses well or not. Well, so far, we're OK. Healthy diet, exercise, all those things were huge factors and they ignored every single one of them. When you look at the number of people that died of covid, something like 90 plus percent had four plus comorbidities, four plus cancer, diabetes, heart attack risk. Fill in the blank.

This is where it really goes off the rails. Hearing that you might wrongly think if I don't have four comorbidities, if I don't have cancer and diabetes and heart disease, then I'm going to be fine. First of all, the 90 plus number is wrong. The study he's referring to said 76 percent. But here's why it's really deceptive. OK, when you look at the list of comorbidities people died with from covid, they include pneumonia caused by covid. They include respiratory failure caused by covid. This is why it's so deceptive. And you've got to look

at the data. If you say to me they didn't die from covid, they died from pneumonia and respiratory failure. Those are comorbidities. Yes, they were caused by the covid. So what is that? What are we really saying when we say, oh, comorbidities, comorbidities caused by covid? It is obviously true that if you are obese, diabetic, etc., your chances are worse. We know that nobody's denying that. And that's not unique to covid. But that is a very deceptive and I would argue flat out wrong thing to say for comorbidities. Ninety plus percent of them.

Yeah. It's not that it's not bad. Of course, it's bad, but it's you know, it's worse. You mother telling everybody what they have to do and not have to do. You you mother is telling people they could shut their businesses down and they have to take this experimental medication regardless of whether or not they have natural immunity. Dude, he was Gestapo. I don't even know what experimental medic.

The experimental medications were being proposed by Trump and his friends, hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, et cetera. If he's calling the vaccine an experimental medication, I just think that's flat out incorrect with you. But I'm with you. It was it was mind control. It was totalitarian, authoritarian tactics. They were limiting people's livelihood, limiting people's ability to travel, shaming people. So listen on this stuff, mind control seems completely beyond the pale. I do defer to the perspective of Sam Harris on this, which was at the very what he's talking about with regard to business closures, et cetera. It was quite a short period of time. As Sam has laid it out, the benefit of hindsight is hugely beneficial. But at the time, we were using our best assessments of the tools we had.

And I don't believe that there were individuals acting in the conspiratorial bad faith that Rogan and others seem to believe they were. So I'm glad to talk to Joe any time. I don't know that he would have to have me back. You know, people write to me and go, David, if you think he's so wrong, go back on his show. And I go, sure, I'll go back. And then they go, David, Rogan would never have you anymore because you criticize him. Oh, OK, well, then I won't go back. If he wants to chat with me about this stuff. I would be glad to. And to be honest, I don't think Rogan's the type of guy who would say I'm not allowed back on because I've critiqued him.

But the critiques are always of what he says and the substance. And I think he's just very wrong about a bunch of this stuff. Let me know your thoughts. We'll take a quick break. It's good for your health. There's really no substitute. And the one I've been using for years is the one from a company called Uplift Desk. I love it so much. We asked them to become a sponsor. I've tried multiple standing desks from different companies. Uplift Desk is the only one that I really feel is sturdy and solid when it goes up and down. You can try to shake it, put weight on it. It just doesn't wobble. Lots of other things set uplift desk apart as well.

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at uplift desk dot com slash Pacman. Use the code Pacman five. That's U.P.L.I.F.T. desk dot com slash Pacman. Then use the code Pacman five to get five percent off. The info is in the podcast notes. Breaking a deeply ingrained habit is one of the toughest things to do. Our sponsor, Fume, can make it easier. Not everything in a bad habit is wrong. So instead of a drastic, uncomfortable change, remove the bad from the habit. And that's quite frankly what Fume helps you do. Fume is an innovative, award winning device that delivers flavored air. That's it. There's no vapor. There's no nicotine, no electronics. It's just delicious flavored air delivered by the cylindrical fume device that fits in the palm of your hand. It comes in tasty, refillable flavors like raspberry, lemon,

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to get a discount. And not only are you getting great perks, you're also supporting an endeavor that hopefully you think is worthwhile. Right. I mean, otherwise, why would you be why would you be here? Let's speak to some of the people who listen to the show, who watch the show. We do this on the Friday show via discord at David Pakman dot com slash discord. And we're going to start today. I hope I'm pronouncing this correctly. Is it Ali X from Florida? Ali X from Florida. Well, it's it's just Alex. Thank you, Alex. OK, good. Welcome. So I've been I've been watching your show for a while now, and I got to gotta say i really i really am impressed with just everything you do thank you and what i wanted to know is just what is your

honest take on uh nikki haley as a politician as a presidential candidate and just her policy in general not so much her winning chances, just just because it's over. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm a Nikki Haley fan, but I'm also realistic. It's not looking good. So are you a lifelong Republican? I would say so. Yeah, no, I've I've always been more on the right, but I'm definitely not happy with Trump as it stands

now. Who'd you vote for in 2020? I did not vote in 2020. I was actually not older. You aren't old enough. OK, listen, here's my thought on Nikki Haley. OK, she's obviously less crazy than Trump. I think she was the second least crazy person who ran in the Republican primary behind Chris

Christie, who seemed the most sober and sane of all of them. I don't find anything about Nikki Haley's policy ideas interesting. She will occasionally show some restraint when it comes to foreign policy. She generally seems to think that funding Ukraine the way we are is a pretty good deal on tax policy. She's to my right, but she's not insane on abortion. I actually don't remember. I know she says she's vehemently pro-life. I don't remember what kind of an abortion ban she wants, but I'm sure I'm to her left. She's sort of a much more standard Republican where we can have a reasonable conversation.

Our disagreements are more policy oriented rather than is democracy, democracy worth preserving. But she's not the sort of person I would go out of my way to support. But she's a Republican, more of the style we used to have, where the disagreements are more about policy rather than dealing with completely crazy people. All right. That's actually a that's that's a good response. Thank you.

I'm curious, what are the areas on which you're most conservative and find yourself agreeing with the Republican Party? I believe the part that I'd be most relative to them with would just be on immigration. I do think we need to do more to be securing the border. And what would you do? I would say that right now Biden is trying to get funding passed. And recently we saw that the Republicans in Congress blocked the bill, which was interesting. They, they rant and rave about the border and then do nothing about it.

But I guess, Alex, what I mean is, do you want a wall? Do you want to focus on deporting visa overstayers who have nothing to do with the physical border? Do you think that we need to be targeting the companies that hire undocumented immigrants, which is illegal but very not not often enforced. What what what would you like to see done about immigration? Do you think DACA recipients should be granted permanent legal status in the United States? Speaker 4 I would say the wall, it just I haven't seen evidence that it's worked because they say that Trump didn't finish the wall. He built most of it. No, he did. So he did.

The he built a tiny fraction. I believe that the lady I want to be accurate of the of the however many miles is it? It's like nineteen hundred miles. I think Trump built new wall on like a couple hundred miles. So he got not even 10 percent of it done. Yeah, that's OK. I didn't know that. Thank you for telling me that. So you so you don't think the wall really would work that well, it sounds like. Well, either way, then, yeah, I didn't know that it wasn't actually I thought it was about

about 80 percent. So, you know, Trump insisted that he mostly built it, but that was a lie. Yeah. OK. Yeah. So, no, I don't think a wall would be the most effective. I think just having having more security on the border in general would be the first step. And so what? Meaning what? What does that mean? More security? You're saying higher, more border patrol? Yeah. More border patrol, maybe more ice agents on the border, just making sure people don't come in in the first place. Okay. And then when it comes to immigrants already in the country, I kind of agree with what, uh, I want to say, yeah, it was Nikki Haley that said it where it's just anybody that's been here for more than 10 years illegally.

By that point, they're already pretty much there. They're just an American citizen. Just let's not worry about that. I don't remember Nikki Haley saying that, but that's interesting. Right. I listen to everything she does, every podcast, every every town hall, everything. Cool.

So the last question, Alex, before I let you go, in terms of those who came here as minors, should they be allowed to stay? Speaker 4 That's a good question. In other words, they were brought here by their parents when they were legally minors. Speaker 5 I'd say they didn't have control of the situation. So if they choose to as an adult stay here rather than going back, I think if they were brought back and brought here as a minor, they should at least be given the opportunity of citizenship.

Speaker 1 All right. Alex from Florida, if Nikki Haley doesn't become the nominee, which she won't, will you vote Trump or Biden in November? Speaker 4 I'm still undecided on that, but I'm leaning Biden. All right. Alex, thank you so much for the call. Yeah. Thank you for talking to me.

All right. Let's go next to David from Tampa Bay, a self-described Trump supporter. David from Tampa Bay. Welcome to the program. What's on your mind today, sir? Hi, David. Thank you for having me. I was very much.

So. Listen, all the time. Thank you for having me. I very much enjoy the show. Listen all the time. Thank you. What's on my mind is just wondering, Republicans seem very excited for Trump. And do you think that Democrats hating Trump and, you know, from what I'm seeing in polls, not being excited for Biden will be enough for them to defeat him. Well, I'll answer that. But David, when you say Republicans seem excited for Trump, aren't you a Trump Republican? Like are you excited for Trump?

No, I'm not. But you're but you're voting for him. Yes. Why? Just because I lean more fiscally conservative. And which Trump policies are fiscally conservative? Well, I don't think it's a matter of just the policies. I think it's just bringing things in and not spending as much money. I think both parties are great spenders. But Trump blew up the deficit in historic ways.

How is that fiscally conservative? Well, if you remember what was happening with COVID and all the COVID relief, I really blew it up. I mean, before that. Well, the deficit goes up every single year, no matter who's in charge, the debt goes up every single year, the deficit goes up or it can sometimes go down. It went down under Obama. Oh, it did go down under Obama. Well, I liked Obama. OK, but here's my confusion, David. Here's my confusion. You call in, you say,

I'm a Trump supporter. I go, OK, so you're excited about Trump. You go now. I just I'm conservative. So I'm voting Trump. I say, great. Which fiscally conservative things you go? Well, reining in the spending. I go, well, Trump blew up the deficit. So why are you voting Trump? Well, I'm voting for Trump just because in general the spending is less under Republicans. But that's not true. Republican presidents have a history of growing the deficit dramatically. We saw it under Trump. We saw it under Bush. It's been decades since Republicans spent less than Democrats as president. It's just factually untrue. Well, I just think with. Well, let me think about it for a second. Yeah, I'm curious and I'm not I'm not playing gotcha with you. We have calls like this where

people they say one thing and then I talk to them and they've misunderstood or don't know the facts, but then they go, I don't know, I'm still voting for Trump. No, I mean, I'm very much on the fence. You know, this could be something I research and. Changed my mind on. Yeah, I don't like him as a person. I just normally just see, at least with the rhetoric about the only way to solve problems on the Democratic side is just to throw money at more more money on the problem. Are you open to the idea that like you would agree that some problems are solved with money, right? Sure. I mean, I get a lot of things on the margin and being sold with some more money. Yeah. So it really sounds much more like Biden would be the right choice for you than Trump.

Just from what you're telling me, David. It's it's possible. It's possible. Yeah. I mean, if I go and research this and just see that generally under Biden, they're being a little more conservative. I mean, I'm just worried about everything that happened with inflation. But what do you think? What's happening with inflation?

Tell me what has happened with inflation in the last 18 months. Well, in the last 18 months, the Fed's been bringing it down. So you agree inflation is down dramatically under Biden? Yeah, but I mean, I don't think it had anything to do with him or his policies or anything like that. Well, but I guess the question is, but it has to do with with the Fed based on who he selected to be there, right? I mean, I think anybody, any good president is going to try to keep inflation in line and employment. But again, David, the reason I'm asking is you said you're concerned about Biden because of what's been happening with inflation.

And then you just told me inflation is way down. More just Democratic policies in general, just more spending all the time. But you realize that Obama lowered the deficit. Clinton had a surplus, whereas George W. Bush and Trump blew up the deficit. What I'm trying to communicate to you is you have your understanding of what's going on based, it sounds like on rhetoric and it's counter to the facts. And I'm curious whether it's the rhetoric or the facts that are more appealing to you. No, it's definitely the facts. I mean, I have no problem with Clinton or Obama. I

thought they were perfectly fine. I'm not. I look at it just what's happening with politics at the time. Obama and Clinton were fine. Bush was all right. I don't like Trump at all. I think if I were to say who's a better person, I think it would be Biden. Yeah. I just look at how things are affecting our lives day by day. And I don't think Trump is that great of a guy. Like, I don't like what he did on trade. I don't like the America first rhetoric. Yeah. What I do sort of approve on is, you know, I like the judges

that he put in place. I like generally maybe not him, but the Republican Party and who is picking as a judge and the board, like your last mentioned the. All right. Well, David, listen, I'm listening to you. You're sounding more like a Biden guy than a Trump guy to me. But keep researching, OK? Here's all right. Trump supporter David from Tampa Bay very clearly should be voting for Joe Biden based on what he's telling me. Right. Not based on anything I imposed on him, based on what he's telling me very clearly should be voting for Biden. Let's go to Seth from Nebraska. Seth from Nebraska.

Welcome to The David Pakman Show. What is on your mind today? Seth, you're on the air, please. And last chance for Seth to fix his audio. All right. No chance there with Seth from Nebraska. Let's go to Sarah Beth from Washington. Sarah Beth from Washington.

Welcome to the program. What can I do for you today? Oh, boy. Sarah Beth from Washington, welcome to the program. And Sarah Beth, you got to fix your audio last chance for Sarah Beth from Washington. All right. Let's go to Pam from Florida. Pam from Florida, please save us from these tech disasters. What's going on? You hear me, right? I can hear you fine. Yeah. No. I've been listening to the calls recently and I'm just like making statements.

So not so much a question, but it's scary how little these people actually know when they're reporting. I'm terrified. It's actually very terrifying. And to speak about Trump as if he's just a fiscally conservative dude. And, you know, I support that. And he is not normal. So the fact that you're talking about him in that way is it's very disheartening. I mean, just go to his website and please look at his agenda. He wants to eradicate anybody who doesn't agree with him. He wants to only give tax cuts to the billionaires and more.

And that's not going to help any of you people here listening. None of you know what's fascinating, Pam, is that sorry to interrupt in New Hampshire, the less money one made, the more likely they were to vote for Trump, which goes completely counter to everything that he's offering. Speaker 5 Well, yeah, you know, they're always they're voting against their own interests. And as a 20 year something year old, your main concern is the border. I mean, the fear mongering that got you to that place where you care more about the border than Social Security that Haley wants to cut, especially for 20 year olds or the fact that the earth is burning and that the conservatives want to do nothing

because they take money from false. I mean, it goes on and on and on. But I mean, the fact that they're just he's presented in such a way that he's just a normal conservative politician where he's he's going to do so much to, you know, ruin this country. We all we all know that, like you and I. But it just I just had a comment on what, you know, these people are supporting. And then when you ask them an actual question about policy, they they have no clue. And they're educated people. So that's many of them are. It's I'm with you, Pam. I am terrified. Every single one of these people that calls in just they don't know what's going on. They're supporting Trump for reasons that are

actually applicable to Biden. I mean, it's it's I'm scared for November for sure. Voting against their own interests and females out there. They are going to they want us back in the kitchen. And that's why they want us to have babies. And that's why they're cutting all this and and putting doctors, you know, I mean, this is this is deep stuff. Think about it. Don't worry about the border. I mean, the Republicans are refusing to help us and if they were empowered, they don't want to help because they always want it as a talking point. It's crazy. But sorry, I just had to get off my chest.

Speaker 1 All right, I'm good to hear from you. Your rant is completely logical based on what you're seeing. Speaker 4 Thanks so much, David. Always good to talk to you. you. Likewise, there goes Pam from Florida. If you're holding on to talk to me, hold on just a moment longer. We're going to take a super quick break and then we'll be right back to the line, the phone lines. If you've been thinking about getting a new mattress, Helix sleep is where I would start. I've been sleeping on Helix mattresses for years now. I recommend Helix to everyone, which is why I wanted them as a sponsor. If you don't want to take my word for it, Helix has been awarded number one mattress by both GQ and Wired Magazine.

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So bamboo toilet paper is all around a win for you and for the environment. It's time to move on from that toilet paper from trees that you're using at home when you use real paper. Doesn't feel like you're sacrificing anything. The David Pakman Show David Pakman dot com. Let's go back to discord as info is in the podcast notes. Let's go back to discord as we do on the Friday show. David Pacman dot com slash discord. Why don't we go next? I don't know. How about to Pat from North Idaho? Pat from North Idaho. Welcome to the program. What's on your mind today? Speaker 5 Mr. David, can you hear me? Yes, I can.

Speaker 6 Great to be with you, sir. Likewise, we spoke previously about Project 2025, and I'm wondering if you're familiar with the readout program, the the movement to make Idaho part of eastern Washington and western Montana a separate sovereign nation. I've heard about it. I don't know the details, but I have heard about it. Yeah, it's it's a bit, you know.

It's very similar to the Project 2025 agenda. I'm I'm halfway curious if the Project 2025 ultimate goal is this readout program. We've got folks that, you know, that that literally think. That as we sit here and speak right now on the Friday show, that there are troops, Russian troops in Canada ready to help Mr. Trump take over after Biden tries to steal the election. Yeah, I don't think Project 2025 has as a goal a secession of part of the country into its own. I don't I've seen no evidence of that whatsoever, Pat. Yeah, I mean, just in kind of studying the Project 2025 stuff and and with some of the

ministers and pastors up here with the rhetoric that they have and really doing the studies. I think we have a major education program. And I think, you know, like David, the last caller, the more people actually get engaged and really do their own studies and really do their own research and not just say that I did my own research because that's what Trump told me to say type of thing. Right. It's just so obvious. You know, the rhetoric, the mansplaining, the projection, the signs are there if we can just get folks to look at it. And I've heard a campaign coming up in February of flip a friend and trying to flip family members and flip friends that are our MA folks that they have questions, you know, that are at the point. And we spoke before also about how to approach these folks. And right.

I am so geared towards addiction and recovery issues that that realizing that when we approach that it has to be soft, it has to be from the heart. Yep. It has. I'm so sorry. Did you have a question today? I've just got 100 people waiting to chat with me. What is it that you would recommend for?

Anybody that really wants to listen, what's a good source? I mean, you know, somewhere we can direct folks. For get information. Let me think about that, Pat. I don't have any one source for information. Let me let me give some thought to that and then we can we can check in again about it. Let's go next to Schmuel from St. Louis. Schmuel from St. Louis has declared himself a Trump supporter.

Schmuel, welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I have been listening to this to your show for a while just to hear sort of the strongman argument on the other side. And I really appreciate everything you do. My pleasure. I had a one main question. I am a an Orthodox Jew. And one of the major things that I've had trouble with listening to your podcast is it seems that you have a certain derision for religiousness.

And I've tried to get friends of mine to listen to you, and they weren't able to get past that. What exactly is your position on people who are religious and how would you, how would you, meaning I definitely understand the idea of separating it from policy and things like that, but it doesn't make sense to me for somebody who has a worldview that's coming from a religious place to not have that affect their morals and their understanding of the way that they would want to create policy. Well, I have no derision for religion in general, as you sort of are alluding to. I don't believe that any one's religious beliefs should be the

basis for any kind of civil law or government that makes the country a theocracy. And it would be quite literally unconstitutional. There are countries that have that sort of a system. The U.S. isn't one of them. So, for example, to say that gay marriage should be illegal because of what Leviticus says to me would be completely out of bounds for civil government. Now, if a particular church doesn't want to participate in certain marriages because of their religious doctrine, to the extent that it doesn't violate the law, go ahead and not do it.

But for me, justifying law based on the religious beliefs of any one religion is wrong. We're on the same page so far. Any one religion, I agree. But let's say abortion, for example, is something that that would definitely cross into the religious frame of reference. And so for somebody who is not religious to come up with a scientific argument why it's totally fine and then to look at somebody who's religious, to come up with a scientific argument why it's totally fine and then to look at somebody who's religious, who's saying, well, that's murder and say, you know, well, you can't say that because that's coming from a religious place. Do you understand why that seems like it's a place where those kinds of religious morals might

and even should affect the way that they want to create policy? No. If the only basis for opposition is religious, then the answer would be you don't have to get an abortion because you're that that's not a reason to make something illegal. That's a reason to say, I'm just not going to do it. I completely disagree with you on that. And in fact, the question very quickly becomes which religion? There are large swaths of Judaism, including, you know, I'm Jewish, right? Yeah, of course. Every Jewish movement I've ever associated with puts incredible priority on the life of the mother and is essentially pro choice. Doesn't mean anyone has to have an abortion. It just means it should be available. So how would we value

should something be legal or illegal if my Judaism says one thing and your Judaism says something else? No. So I understand what you're saying. And I'm actually very much of the same opinion that those kinds of carve outs should and must be made. I think that having one specific religion dictate what exactly should happen or not. Yes. That's that's a sensibility that comes from a moral standpoint and something that if you look at it as a clump of cells from a secular standpoint and you don't look at, you know, you don't disassociating from the idea of it being murder, whereas a respect for a person's religion would dictate that you need to look at that situation as being it needs to be logical that somebody who understands from their religious perspective that it is murder, that they should be opposed to that. Right. But what I think we're disagreeing on here is I have no problem whatsoever with you setting it up and saying, you know, secular society might say abortion is not murder.

Here's a religion that says it is murder. Here's a religion that says it isn't murder. That's great. All those perspectives exist. We have a constitution and the constitution says if all you have is a religious reason for something being legal or illegal, it's not the foundation on which the United States bases its civil government. So this isn't even a question of my opinion.

This is what the Constitution would say in the situation you're drawing up is if we can't come up with some secular, empirical or scientific reason for abortion to be illegal, then it's legal. But if your religion tells you that it's murder, you don't have to go and get one. That's the freedom we're talking about. And there's absolutely no conflict there at all. The only other alternative of what you're saying is that a religious view is imposed as the reason for civil law, which violates the Constitution.

You could say, well, David, I disagree that that's what the Constitution should say. Great. There are other countries where religious law rather than the Constitution is the governing framework. But in the United States, it just is what it is. If you think it's murder, you shouldn't go and get an abortion. OK, but all that considered, it would still be prudent to respect the fact that even if the sole basis for that position is not religion, that if it is driven by religion, that that that that should not be put down. Correct. No one's putting down.

Listen, I agree with you if what you're saying is. If your religion teaches you that this is murder and you don't want to get an abortion or you don't want family members to get an abortion. I'm not talking about that's 100 percent your choice. I respect that completely. Sure, sure. I'm specifically talking about somebody who has the sensibility that it's murder from a religious perspective that then utilizes some secular argument to make that case. The fact that it's coming from a a a religious sentiment. Yeah. Even even though it's back up. Hello. Small.

Sorry, you cut out there. Listen, I think I know what you're getting at. If a religious person who believes abortion is murder wants to come forward and make a science or secular based argument against abortion, they should be listened to. I think that's what you're getting at. Yes. And just one other thing. You've said a lot about you. You really stuck with Biden on the inflation rate coming down. I think that the big problem and you actually did. Hold on a second. Wait a second. Wait a second.

What do you mean? I've stuck with Biden. I've reported on the inflation rate. Is that fair to say? No, because of the fact that it hasn't been in context, right? In context, the inflation rate as it is now is low, but it was very high, right? And if you adjust for wage increases, overall, our money has become less. Yes. Okay. So when you say to people who are looking to vote for Trump, hey, how can you look at Biden's economy and say that the inflation is out of control? Actually inflation is very low. What you're doing is you're propagandizing and you're saying, well, you're giving them just a little piece of the puzzle and you're not filling them.

But actually there is a major economic issue with people's money becoming worth less now. Yeah, that's not hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I have reported fairly and accurately to my audience that inflation is down significantly. Your wage growth is up significantly, but it is still the case. It is still the case that over the last several years, and this includes both the Trump and Biden eras, wage growth has not kept up with inflation. So I take issue with you saying I'm hiding that from my audience. I make that super clear. OK, so so if people were to attribute the very high inflation rate that we just previously had to Biden. It would then make sense that even if the inflation rate now is much lower, that they would still take issue with Biden on the economy, considering the fact that wage increases have

not kept up. Why would someone blame Biden when the inflation has only come down under Biden since Trump left? I take issue with that doesn't make any. Why would someone do that? That doesn't make any sense. You're saying you're saying that the inflation rate did not go up under Biden at all. I don't have the chart in front of me.

I'm sure it did go up during some months under Biden. But I think the framework I take issue with Schmuel is presidents only have some to do with these metrics. And I made that clear both under Trump and under Biden. Much of it relates to global economic conditions, business cycles, major events like pandemics, etc. So I think you're attributing to me that I give way more agency to presidents in general. My view is Trump.

I agree with you on hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Yeah. Trump was predicting a 1929 style depression under Biden. That very much didn't happen. And so what I want voters to question is the absurd and pathetic fear mongering from Trump when obviously nothing Biden did precipitated such a bad situation. Absolutely. And I agree with you completely on that. I was just my my only point was that the framing of the economy under Biden as being better than it than it actually is by looking at the lower inflation rate is not taking into context the fact that to some degree, a person could arguably attribute some of the increase in the inflation rate earlier to Biden. And so I just think that that framing is a little

bit disingenuous. And I think that, you know, to but I also agree with your main point, which is that presidents don't have nearly as much agency over these things as we give them credit for. All right. Schmool, very much appreciate your call. My pleasure. Thank you very much for having me. And I would love to call back. All right. Thank you so much. Call back anytime. Schmool from St. Louis. All right, folks. Interesting calls this week. Hopefully some enlightening and illuminating. We will take a break and be back with more right after this. You may remember a few years ago, the show got hacked and several thousand dollars were stolen. We never got it back.

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focus time. You can try aura free for 14 days at aura.com slash Pacman. It only takes a few seconds to use the free trial to see if your username and passwords have been leaked online. That's a U R a.com slash Pacman. The link is in the podcast notes. Let's get into Friday feedback for the week. We take feedback of all sorts and through all sorts of different means. You can always email info at David Pakman dot com questions, comments, concerns, criticisms. It's all welcome. Politeness is preferable. We start today with something that is just very strange. Armando wrote in this canal is an embarrassment. This canal is an embarrassment. You know,

I've talked before and I've been interviewed about this on other shows. How do I deal with the criticism? And one of the things I said that earlier in my career I didn't do, which now I do, is I really imagine what it must be like to be some of the people that say these things to me. And even when things are correctly spelled, I sort of feel a little sad for them. Right. Like what what must your life has come to where this is the sort of crap you choose to spend your days doing, sending hate messages to people you don't know on the Internet, especially when it's stuff like this. Cannell is an embarrassment. It becomes very easy to just ignore it.

It really does. And I, I don't know whether there's anything else to the technique, but it's I feel like these people's lives must not be going well. And if they feel a little bit better because they fire off some incorrectly spelled message to me, you know what? I can take it. I'm a big boy. Here's another one. Grow your brain and you will get it. Tramp 2024, not Trump Tramp 2024. This is a classic. It's sort of reminiscent of some of the defenders of Jordan Peterson. You would understand how incredibly insightful and intelligent what Trump is saying is if

you were smarter. No, no, no. You don't have the capacity to understand the greatness of what Jordan Peterson is saying. You're misunderstanding it. The only reason it doesn't make sense to you is because you're misunderstanding it very. It's always me who's the one misunderstanding, not anybody else. Clayton says, maybe if you crawled out of your parents basement, you would come to the realization that things were much better under Trump. Just look around. You know, when people write this stuff to me, please tell me exactly which metrics you're talking about, which things were better under Donald Trump. Were we more respected globally? No. Was unemployment lower? No. Was job creation higher? No. Were gas prices lower?

Yeah, gas prices were a little bit lower during part of Trump's presidency. But on an inflation adjusted basis, they're basically just as low now at three bucks a gallon. What is it that was better under Trump? I'd love for someone to actually explain it to me rather than leave me wondering in this way. Here is Rob who says Biden spends my money like a drunken sailor. I'm not staying home.

I'm voting Biden out. Hey, buddy, have some more Biden Kool-Aid. Yeah, listen, there are programs Trump has spent money on and there are programs that Biden has spent money on. I would argue that despite Trump blowing up the deficit as Republican presidents tend to do, Joe Biden's spending has actually made sense. The Chips and Science Act, which increased domestic manufacturing spending for something that strengthens the country, the Inflation Reduction Act and the infrastructure bill, which strengthen infrastructure while investing in green energy, while putting money into jobs that are local, good paying jobs.

He's spending money in a way that makes a lot of sense. Student loan debt forgiveness. Biden has done more student loan debt forgiveness than any president spending money in an economically stimulative way because now people whose student loan debt was forgiven instead of paying interest on loans, they are taking that money that's freed up and putting it into local communities. It's called demand side stimulus in the economic world. Yeah, he's spending money in ways that I like in ways that I like. Here's a YouTube viewer who says, why are you still in the YouTube news section? You should be in the fools section because you

say everything Trump said is B.S. But H.S. that comes out of your month really is gabish as you country go down the drain. You base prick. You are what is wrong with America and jokers like you. You are so scared Trump is going to win. America has woken up Joe Biden loser. It's really hard to parse the syntax on this one. But I want to tell people again, I'm not scared Trump is going to win because something's going to happen to me. I'm going to be fine. That's the reality. OK, I'm scared of Trump winning because of what's going to happen to the country and what's going to happen to people who are in precarious employment situations and what's going to happen to people who are economically marginalized and what's going to happen to minority groups of different kinds.

It's not this whole year. I'm so scared it would be terrible for me if Trump won. I hate to tell you, if Trump won, it's probably great for the show and it's fine for me. I'm worried because I care about more than just myself. And it's really hard to get a bunch of these people on the right to understand that the Corvair guy says, dude, get over the Trump derangement syndrome. You know, Trump is good for America. You just can't break free from your Democrat Party line. Remember, I'm not a Democrat. I have no Democrat Party line.

The Corvair guy continues. But you will probably vote secretly for Trump because we were much better off on many issues when he was running it. Stop fooling us and yourself. Vote Trump 2024 like a good patriot. First of all, my vote is irrelevant. The idea that I would say I'm voting one way, but actually vote a different way when I vote in New York, which Trump is going to lose no matter what. I mean, my vote doesn't matter here. Sadly, I wish we had a national popular vote, but my vote does not matter. The idea that I would tell my audience one thing

and do a different one behind the scenes is absolutely disgusting. I've said before, I think one of the most dishonest and horrible things that content creators can do is to essentially play characters and to be someone different behind the scenes. Any view I espouse on the show, I espouse in my private life. I know that that is not true of every content creator. I know that there are content creators that have latched on to what they perceive to be views that generate clicks or get them speaking gigs or whatever the case may be. That is not something you're ever going to get on this show. So one thing you can be sure of is if I'm telling you something on the show that I believe,

I believe it in real life. All right, let's do one of these is very much indicative of how disinformation spreads. Johnny Rocks wrote in trying to prove the point that Biden doesn't know what's going on. Johnny wrote, according to Biden, we lost the Revolutionary War because we didn't have enough airports. That's one reason to vote for Trump. So here is how disinformation spreads. Donald Trump is the one who during a speech talked about airports during the Revolutionary War. When Joe Biden talked about it, he was quoting Trump. Joe Rogan actually did a segment where Joe Rogan said, man, I saw this video of Biden

talking about airports during the Revolutionary War. Jamie pulls up. It was actually Trump who said it. Biden was just quoting him. And Rogan goes, oh, I don't know. OK, this is a classic. If you believe that when a president says something about airports during the Revolutionary War, it's indicative that they are unfit for office. It is actually Trump who said it. OK, Johnny, go check out your go check the record. Fact check me on this one. Irma Parham wrote in about immigration and said eight year old kids can't make immigration

decisions, David, but you're OK if they make gender transition mutilation surgery decisions on their own. Everything you advocate is creepy. So first and foremost, if you're eight years old in Mexico and your parents say, hey, tomorrow we're leaving, we're going to the United States. It is not your decision. It is not your decision. When it comes to gender transition mutilation surgery decisions, I am not able to find a shred of evidence that eight year olds are making those decisions on their own. Never mind evidence that in any significant number, eight year olds are having such surgeries. Do the research.

Matt Walsh floated completely imaginary numbers about this. Others have as well. The idea that an eight year old can go, I want to have a surgery to change my genitalia and a month later it's being done is not happening. In addition to this, even if the endpoint is such a surgery, there are so many mental health requirements, parental involvement, et cetera. Now you can still acknowledge that that's going on and that all of these safeguards are in place and say, I don't

think any any eight year old should have that done. I don't know the answer to that. That part I'm unsure about. OK, I defer to the medical experts and mental health experts on that. Maybe it's true that it shouldn't be happening with eight year olds. It basically isn't is what the data tell us. But this person is actually proving my point. In order to get any kind of transition services for minors, parents almost always have to be involved at the younger ages. There is a mental health process. There is a pathway that is put in place. There are no kids making these decisions for themselves. And Irma seems really to be proving my point more than she's proving the point she thinks she's proving. Info at David Pakman dot com. Info at David Pakman dot com is the place to write.

If you have a question, a comment, a criticism, a concern, whatever the case may be. We have a fantastic bonus show coming up for you. Producer Pat will be on the bonus show. You can sign up at join Pakman dot com. David Pakman membership costs six bucks a month. Normally it's six bucks a month. You can get a discount by using the code Save Democracy 24. And I also encourage you also encourage you to do it before the new website launches, because membership prices will be going up. You can lock in the lower rates for as long as you want them by signing up today at joinpacman.com. We'll see you on the bonus show and then we'll be back here on Monday.