The David Pakman Show - 12/8/23: Trump's predictions all fail, MAGA activist guilty of election fraud

Episode Date: December 8, 2023

-- On the Show: -- We review a number of Donald Trump's predictions about what a Joe Biden presidency would be like to see if any of the predictions came true -- A MAGA activist is found guilty of election fraud for his fraudulent vote in the 2020 presidential election -- Former Vice President Mike Pence has been added to the witness list for one of Donald Trump's forthcoming Georgia criminal trial -- Caller prefers Nikki Haley, then Joe Biden, then Donald Trump -- Caller asks about requiring a test to vote -- Caller discusses anti-democracy Republicans -- Caller talks about the American health care system -- The Friday Feedback segment -- On the Bonus Show: Hunter Biden indicted again, Jamaal Bowman censured, and much more... 🔊 Babbel: Get 55% off your subscription at https://babbel.com/pakman 📰 Straight Arrow News: Download the FREE app at https://straightarrownews.com/pakman 📈 Subscribe to Richard Vague’s free video series Tychos at https://tychosgroup.org/join 🩳 SHEATH Underwear: Code PAKMAN for 20% OFF at https://sheathunderwear.com/pakman 👩‍❤️‍👨 Try the Paired App FREE for 7 days and get 25% OFF at https://paired.com/pakman ☕ Beam melatonin hot cocoa: Get up to 50% OFF at https://shopbeam.com/pakman 💪 Athletic Greens is offering FREE year-supply of Vitamin D at https://athleticgreens.com/pakman -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

Speaker 1 I think it's important to judge elected officials by what did they accomplish as compared to the promises that they made? That's important. And one of the ways we're evaluating Joe Biden and we have been doing is here are the things Joe Biden said he would or wouldn't do. How do his actions relate to the promises that were made? Great. A second part of this, given that one of the people running for Joe Biden's job is Donald Trump, who was president already and made a number of predictions about what Biden would do during one term is to say, hey, let's look at some of the predictions Trump

made and see if Biden actually did any of those things. Some of these are genuinely hilarious, but I want to just take a brief tour through the predictions that Trump made about what Biden would do. Remember stuff like this that Trump said with a straight face and the MAGA Trump is believed. There'll be no heating in the winter, no air conditioning in the summer and no electricity, whatever the hell you want it right now. You have it made. You're so lucky. You are so lucky. I'm your president. Well, I will tell you, I still have heating in the winter. I still have cooling in the summer and I still have electricity whenever I wanted. Another one of these completely failed predictions. What about this one from Donald Trump about what life in the United States would be like

under a President Joe Biden? Very dark. And you'll have no school, no graduations, no weddings, no Thanksgiving, no Christmas, no Fourth of July. No future. Other than that, he's doing a fantastic job. Biden wants to keep everyone locked up, even young Americans who are extremely low risk. Like we talked about, he wants to steal the dreams and the future of our young people. You know, Joe Biden, in terms of stealing the dreams of our young people, has actually done by dollar amount more student loan forgiveness than any president in the of stealing the dreams of our young people has actually done by dollar amount more student loan forgiveness than any president in the history of the United States.

But actually, Biden was instrumental in reopening schools. We had graduations. Biden spoke at some of them. There are weddings. We had Thanksgiving. The turkey was dry, but we had it. No, I'm kidding. The turkey was great.

As far as I know, Christmas is still going on. Fourth of July. Promise after promise after promise that Trump made with a straight face, none of which happened because they will destroy this country. Our country will go into a depression, the likes of which we have not seen since 1929 and maybe worse. So keep backing them. But, you know, it's wrong. And I really do believe it's only habit. That's the only reason you can be doing it under my continued leadership. What about that? What about that reality? We have some of the lowest unemployment sustained that we've had in 50 years. Inflation is down to three point two percent. Stock market doing well. Wages are up.

GDP is up. This was the prediction Trump made. We should judge his ability to predict what's going to happen politically based on whether it actually happened. And here is another. I could do this all day. By the way, I'm not even going to do you're going to have to flush your toilet 10 to 15 times if Biden's president, because he's going to put in all low flow. As we know, people are not having to flush toilets 10 to 15 times. Here's one more Fox. You know, Fox now puts on more Democrats just about than they do Republicans. They have certainly changed a lot. Fox has changed a lot. They're probably turning off right now as I speak, but I don't see I don't care. I tell the truth.

So you take one of the biggest differences between this year and four years ago is Fox. Fox is like from a different planet and too bad. And you know what's going to happen if we don't win? They're going to go down the tubes along with every other media outlet. They'll all be bust. They'll all be gone.

I can tell you that nobody's going to want to cover Sleepy Joe. We'll end up with one very boring socialist country that will go to hell. We do not have a socialist country and it has certainly not gone to hell. So think not only of the things promised by Trump that he would do, which he didn't think not only of whether Joe Biden has accomplished the things he said he would do, but also because Trump says, pick me in 2024, consider whether any of Donald Trump's predictions of Joe about Joe Biden have come true. I can't find a single one. A MAGA activist has been found guilty of election fraud. Remember, it's Republicans saying Democrats are doing it, but we keep finding Republicans doing it.

Republican act. This is from a click Orlando Republican activists from the villages found guilty of 2020 election voter fraud. Remember, the villages is this very pro Trump kind of senior living community in Florida. A resident from the villages was found guilty for voter fraud in the 2020 election. Robert River Nider Jr., 58 years old, is accused of signing his father's name to a vote by mail ballot. According to the Sumter County election supervisor, Bill Keene, River Nider's father died on October 19, 2020. He had a ballot dated and signed October 16, 2020, postmarked October 23, 2020. However, the signature was different than previous versions of seniors signature and was a little too similar to juniors own signature in 2020.

He was caught. He was indicted. He was prosecuted and he was found guilty, guilty of forgery to alter public records, fraud in connection with casting a vote and pass counterfeit instrument, which are felony charges. He has not yet been sentenced. He is facing several years in prison. He's a Republican Party activist. What a shock. He has a website that touts his experience with various Republican campaigns, including

Trump, Bush, Cheney and lunatic Laura Loomer's 2022 campaign. Look at this. Several residents from the villages have faced charges in the last few years for voter fraud related to 2020. At least four villages, residents were charged with voting twice. All of them entered into pretrial intervention programs to avoid potential prison time takeaways. It's Republicans doing this. They know that there's fraud because they're the ones doing it. But we still can't seem to find Democrats doing it. Second takeaway, the systems to catch people doing this seem to be pretty good because

we're actually catching people doing it. And then thirdly, this continues to be a really stupid way to steal an election. Trump won Florida. It wasn't super close. The election didn't come down to Florida. And at the end of the day, it's a very high risk and really dumb way to try to steal an election. You're better off having a candidate with policies people like campaigning fairly, winning the hearts and minds of voters and just actually getting more votes. That's how Biden won.

Maybe it'll be a less lesson to these people. Former Vice President Mike Pence has been added to the witness list for Trump's forthcoming forthcoming Georgia criminal trial. Imagine Trump under indictment, sitting there glumly in the courtroom facing a de facto life prison sentence and incomes Mike Pence to testify. Holy smokes, I hope this thing is televised. Mike Pence is on the witness list for Trump's Georgia trial, according to a report as reported by The Rolling Stone.

Georgia prosecutors have added former Vice President Mike Pence to the list of witnesses who could be called to testify in Trump's election interference RICO trial, according to a report from CNN. More than 150 individuals, including Pence, have reportedly been included in the Fulton County witness list. It's still under seal. Pence was compelled by special counsel Jack Smith to testify before a grand jury in the Fulton County witness list. It's still under seal. Pence was compelled by special counsel Jack Smith to testify before a grand jury in the Justice Department's federal

election interference case. The former vice president has so far skirted significant involvement in the Fulton County case. Remember that in August, Trump and 18 others were indicted by Fannie Willis in that sprawling racketeering investigation. Pence has not been directly implicated in the effort to meddle with the election results in Georgia, but he could still give critical insight essentially into what was going on. I have to tell you, I am really looking forward to this thing. It's going to be really interesting to see Trump's reaction to Pence's testimony. But also remember, Pence has said, I'm not voting for Democrats. No, I don't support

Trump, but I'm not voting for Democrats. We could have a situation where Pence testifies against Trump in the criminal trial and then says, I'm still going to vote for Trump because there's no way I'm voting for Joe Biden. Imagine testifying against the guy whose supporters wanted you dead and then saying, well, but Biden's a Democrat. I'm ultimately going to have to vote for Donald Trump. These people are sick. But I love seeing Mike Pence on the witness list. Now, people have been writing in saying, David, are you going to cover Trump's trials? We're, of course, going to cover Trump's trials. I think one of the questions is, am I going to be streaming some of them? And the answer is, first, we need

to figure out which of these are going to be televised right now. My belief is that the Georgia trial by default would be televised because it's a state trial, unless the judge says we're not going to allow the cameras in the federal trials. Again, this is the latest info I have. If there's newer information, let me know. The federal trials by default would not be televised, but there have been requests made to televise them, which judges could accept. They tend not to. Federal judges tend not to want

cameras in the courtroom. So I will cover whatever is televised live. And we also will be simultaneously covering the Republican primary that will be going on, the general election that we'll be building and so many other different things. So my plan is cover as much as is possible. We'll be limited by what's actually on TV. Let's take a break. We have such a great program coming up for you today. We're going to hear from some of you. We're going to discuss different grievances and gripes that people have with me, some very unfair and some, if I'm honest, pretty fair. Stay with us back right after this. reporting as having a center or middle bias, no spin bias or filter to get the news. You can download their free app at S.A.N. Dotcom slash Pacman or go directly to Apple or the Google Play app stores and type in

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Brendan from New York is a Republican. Brendan, welcome to the program. What's on your mind today? Who are you supporting in twenty twenty four? I would support Haley. And if she doesn't win, I'll go with Biden. Speaker 1 Really? So you would rather Nikki Haley over Biden, but Biden over Trump? Speaker 4 Yep. Speaker 1

Oh, what's what's the story with that? What are your political views? Speaker 4 I'd probably describe myself as kind of like an early thousands neocon type. Yeah, it's probably about it. So were you like a George W. Bush type guy? Yeah, yeah, somewhat fair. Wow. All right. And what what about Trump makes you not want to vote for him? I would say the general instability personally and the volatility. I think that, you know, you look at some of the actions that he takes on a whim and you think about the implications that they have around the world and effects that could have on, you know, people. I don't know. It just

seems like a dangerous situation. Seems eminently reasonable. What's your position on abortion? Speaker 2 Pro-choice. Speaker 1 Oh, really? And then what about as far as what should the top federal tax rate be? Speaker 2 Well, so I would support the progressive tax in the sense that we have the brackets to get tax more as you go up. It takes sort of an incremental approach to where we start now. So I would say that in general, I'm a tinker with it kind of guy. I don't want to tear it down and start anew. Does that make sense? No, that does. But like, so for example, right now, the top federal tax rate is 37 percent. Would you lower that or raise that? I'd need to see some kind of analysis of what raising or lowering that top tax bracket would do, like where where does the effects go and look at the pros and cons as you proceed from there?

Well, I'll tell you, you're not sounding like much of a Republican in 2023, which is interesting. But now that we've established your views, what's on your mind today? OK, so I was kind of thinking about in relation to the Israel-Palestine conflict, the balance of how you look at the situation and the way power dynamics play into how you should assess the sort of goings-on. And I guess one thought I have is that while I think morally Israel ends in a much superior position in a lot of ways, they also control a lot of the power and the dynamic. I guess how do you balance those two things when thinking about an issue, not even just this one particularly, but maybe on the overall. Well, I think you bring up a good point, which is for a lot of these discussions about the blockade or proportionality when it comes to a violent conflict or the

relationship of the United States to Israel versus to Hamas. You have to consider you have to consider that Israel is a country with a government and a military and what that means. And you have to consider that Hamas is a terrorist group and it goes both ways. And so, for example, I like that Joe Biden has been insisting to Israeli leaders, do not go overboard. You are the victims of this October 7th terrorist attack, but allow aid to get through. Don't go overboard in the response. Now, you could say, well, he said it, but he's not enforcing it or whatever. Right. But this isn't about this isn't about that. This is more about I think that a lot of what Joe Biden has been saying makes perfect sense when you consider the power dynamics at play. Now,

there are people who will defend Hamas's actions as legitimate resistance by saying Israel has a military supported by Western nations and Hamas does not. And they will use that to say, therefore, Hamas has no choice but to do what they did and they were right to do it. That I can't agree with. And of course, Hamas does have the support of Iran, etc. We've talked about that. So I don't think that there's one answer to the question you're asking, Brendan. But without a doubt, in many different ways, the power dynamics

must be considered. They just won't necessarily lead us all to the same conclusions. Speaker 3 Well, sometimes it seems like the lines where the administration maybe draws with Israel are between themselves and Israel. Do you think that it would benefit from making more of those kind of explicit, like how far they're willing to let the Israeli military go in these conflicts? It's a very difficult thing because without a doubt, at the end of the day, you will have those who say, you know, it's kind of up to the Israeli military to decide that and then others can react and can react to that. And the

way the United States might react would be to say, we don't like what you did. So, for example, we're cutting funding or whatever the case may be. I think that the other aspect of proportionality that's really tough is rarely is there any violent conflict in which deaths are proportional? Now, that's not a defense of anything, anything, anything at all. I don't defend the killing of a single Palestinian kid or any kid or any civilian period. But the proportionality conversation sometimes gets weird because it's like, well, I don't know. What does it mean to be proportional? If we determine that the number of Israelis who were raped by Hamas is 74 to be proportional, does the Israeli military now go in and rape 74 Palestinians like that's crazy. And once you realize how crazy that is and you look at the

this idea of proportionality and historical conflicts, I just don't know where where it really gets us in solving anything. You know what I mean, Brendan? Sure. No, yeah. Thanks for taking the question and the discussion. My pleasure. Brendan from New York. Great to hear from you. Why don't we go next to. Oh, I don't know. How about Vince from Wisconsin? Vince from Wisconsin. Welcome to the program. What's on your mind today? Vince from Wisconsin, I've invited you, but you must accept my invitation in order to participate. Hey. All right. Perfect. Perfect. I had to fiddle with the setting for it real quick. We got good. So I would say I am also supporting Biden. I had a potentially

confrontational question, depending on my answer, please. What is your opinion on this whole business of people passing some sort of like test to vote? It seems to me to be unconstitutional. That's kind of my opinion. Now, listen, I'm going to be totally honest with you. If I was trying to figure out a way for the left to win more elections, my instinct is that imposing such a requirement helps the left. Now, you could come back and say, David, you are

wrongly assuming that people on the left would be more likely to pass such a test than people on the right. I'm assuming that I may be wrong, but if I'm honest, I think it's probably not a constitutional thing to do. The right to vote, if one is old enough, seems pretty absolute. OK, I agree with that. Perfect. It also would be hypocritical, I think, by the way, if we on the left are saying, hey, you know, we don't like the idea of stripping voting rights from felons. We can't say that, but then also say we want to put in a test for voting. So you know, I would worry about that double standard as well. Oh, yeah, I totally agree with that.

I was just wondering, I wasn't sure because of at the end of your Vivek Ramaswamy interview, you're like, oh, maybe for the whole country, not just for 18 to 25. Well, yeah, I mean, but that's more because if you really want to impose a voting test, do it not just in a way that would obviously help you test everyone. But I'm not actually in favor of such a test. Speaker 5 OK, good. I was just thanks for clarification. Yeah. Would you mind if I ask another brief question?

Speaker 1 Sure. Go ahead. Speaker 5 So we all know that the right I mean, they love projection, right? So like they say, Democrats want to steal the election. They're actually trying to steal the election. Yeah. Well, could you explain why they have this compulsive need to do that? Well, I think it's two things.

One is at a calculated level. If you want cover for what you're doing, you accuse the other side of doing it. Right. I mean, so I think it's pretty simple in that way. But there's a greater there's probably like a deeper truth, which is to some degree, some on the right think it's OK when they do it in the sense that the ends justify the means. And because their worldview is correct and the left's is wrong, it would be wrong for the left to try to steal an election. But for them, it would be right, because at the end of the day, they know what's good for the country and the world. You know, I think there's like an implicit arrogance in it. OK, that makes sense. Well, thanks a lot,

David. Appreciate it. All right. Vince from Wisconsin. Great to hear from you. Why don't we go next to. Oh, I don't know. Let's go to Columbus, Ohio, where we have a caller named Anthony, who is currently undecided about the 2024 election. Anthony, welcome to the program. What's on your mind? Speaker 1 Yeah. Hey, David, I'm just I was thinking about what your opinions are on the legalization of psychedelics, because we just we just legalized weed in Ohio. And it got me thinking about what the next steps are, I suppose, for that. What are your takes on that whole issue? Listen, from the research I've done, this isn't my top issue, but we've interviewed people like

Rick Doblin and others who are studying this. My sense is there seems to be real promise in the combination of psychedelics at low doses with therapy for PTSD, different types of trauma, anxiety and depression. There seems to be a lot of promise. I'm very much I mean, listen, decriminalization, obviously, and then very quickly with all but, you know, the most hardcore drugs, heroin, cocaine, et cetera, I tend to move relatively quickly in the direction of legalize, regulate, treat addiction as a health issue. That that tends to be my approach on these things. You know, it should be.

I've seen I've seen people's lives be saved because of our propensity to treat addiction as a disease in this country recently. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. It saves a lot of people, you know, just the treatments that we have available. One that comes to mind is for opiate use disorder. You know, we may prescribe Suboxone, which, you know, takes away somebody's withdrawal and allows them to live their life in a healthy way. Right. Hey, tell me. So you're undecided between who right now? Yeah.

So I'm I'm I'm a leftist. I just am having trouble deciding on who to vote because I'm not particularly impressed with Biden. OK, so I'm trying to decide if it's even worth it to vote third party or I really like for some reason I'm blanking on his name at the moment. But the guy from the Young Turks, I really like what he stands for. Now, you know, legally, he can't be president, right? Yeah.

See, I've heard I heard you talk a little bit about that. And is that like is that completely decided already? It's completely decided. His argument is he might be able to get a case to the Supreme Court and then they'll decide he can be president. But that doesn't sound very realistic in the next ten and a half'll decide he can be president. But that doesn't sound very realistic in the next ten and a half months, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Jake is Jake is awesome. But yeah, if he can't be president, then that's out of the question. So then let me ask you this,

Anthony. You're undecided. You're voting in Ohio. Ohio is a critical state. Do you think that if Trump had another four years, it really would be a bad thing? Honestly, probably, but I'm not. See, I have a little brother who's a Trump supporter and he tells me about certain things that Trump has done that were great and yada yada. And he always he always, you know, asked me in a debate sort of way like, oh, well, what has he done that's wrong? And I honestly, I'm see, I'm not extremely political. So oftentimes I will not know how to answer a question. What would you say if somebody asked you that? If someone said, what did Trump do wrong? Yeah. OK. Like name the worst things he did. It would take. So there's two sides. There's policy and then there is sort of the intangibles

on the intangibles. Trump globally humiliated the United States, jeopardized our alliances with historical Western allies while cozying up to dictators and making it so that other countries wouldn't even think of the U.S. as a legitimate and important participant in so many different issues, including climate, foreign policy, etc., while simultaneously debasing himself and political discussion. So, OK, that's one thing. As far as policy goes, you know, you could go on trade. He put in place tariffs on China that didn't do the thing he said they would do and spent endless resources telling us he was going to fix NAFTA. But instead, he replaced NAFTA with something that's almost identical. Total waste of time.

Didn't he outsource a bunch of jobs in the process? Yes, he did. Yeah. On health care, he was going to replace Obamacare with something good. Instead, he did nothing while allowing Obamacare to be weakened, ultimately proposing a plan that would have led to 24 million people losing health insurance on immigration. He provided nothing permanent for DACA recipients while scaling up the policy of kids in cages and separations at the border and leaving families separated and stranded for Joe Biden to clean up. You know, here's the thing. We could go on and on at the end of the day. My concern is you and voting in Ohio. If whatever your little brother

believes, if you believe Trump was no good, I would imagine you would want to take actions that make it less likely Trump becomes president. That's why I'm probably going to vote Biden. You are OK. Good, good. Yeah. All right. Excellent. Excellent. I would love it if a third party candidate had a chance of winning, but I just don't see it happening. No, I don't either. I don't either. All right. Anthony from Ohio. Yeah, go ahead. I got a bunch of people waiting, but real quick, real quick, just because you sort of like half answered it real quick on the psychedelic question. Do you think it should be legal for recreational purposes, not medicinal? That's my last. I probably am in the direction of legalize it, regulate it. Yeah, probably. And

take it out of the black market. OK, awesome. Thank you. Yeah. All right. Thanks so much for the call. There is Anthony. Let's take the quickest of quick breaks and then we will be right back with more. Our sponsor, Sheath Underwear, solves the problem. They have a patented ergonomic underwear design, separate compartments in the front. Everything stays dry, cool and comfortable with sheath. You do away with the chafing and the sweating. Everything can air out and breathe and be fresh. Large variety of designs, something for everyone. The air circulation in sheath underwear allows for a huge difference. And you've got to try it yourself to understand. I can tell you firsthand next level comfort down there. Sheath also now is offering super comfortable women's underwear as well as silky smooth base layer undershirts and bottoms for men. Sheath has world class customer service, Thank you so much for 20 percent off. The info is

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I live in Indiana, as you mentioned. And of course, our neighbors over there in Ohio, as the previous speaker actually just talked about, voted overwhelmingly on a couple of major issues, of courseback from the Republicans in the Ohio legislature, legislator. Excuse me. Yeah. Anyway. And so the question has come up in some conversations I've had in Indiana about whether or not we think that we will be able to move forward and have access to,-initiated ballot initiatives, essentially. And the general sense is that it's unlikely to happen in Indiana, even though all the surrounding states, many of the surrounding states, are able to do this and they're able to kind of tell their legislators, hey, this is the things we care about. And I guess in general, I've heard some arguments that it's sort of against the way in which our political system is established, that we are not sort of a pure democracy, right,

or a democratic republic, and that we elect people for a reason and they should be representing our voices as opposed to directly voting on these initiatives ourselves. So in general, I'm curious if you have a perspective on that, this idea that voters can initiate these ballot measures and then vote on them versus the traditional manner of passing legislation. What are your thoughts on that? People may or may not know Indiana is one of 24 states that do not have these ballot statewide ballot initiatives where voters can say, hey, we care about this. Let's get some signatures. If we get a certain number of signatures, it goes on the ballot. So there are really good reasons to allow this.

Yes, you're not wrong, Alexandra. That one approach would be to say, well, you elect your representatives, tell them what it is you want them to do and then let them do it. That is true. That is a way that you can express your desires. The reality is that the ballot initiative is a check on legislative power. There are all sorts of different reasons that even if something is favored by a majority of the state's constituents, either due to gerrymandering or for other reasons, it will never even get to a vote or even get to a point where our elected officials seriously

consider it. So in my mind, the ballot initiative is a very good check on that legislative power. And it's more about I want to hear be heard on this specific issue rather than I generally want elected officials who, you know, respect a woman's right to choose. OK, but here's a way that we can be heard on a specific issue. Now, what's the downside? Sometimes the ballot initiatives can be poorly drafted in a way that is destined to fail. It can be overly simplistic. So it passes and then the implementation is a disaster or it doesn't work or whatever the case may be. I don't find that a good enough reason to say we don't allow ballot initiatives. I'm in favor of ballot initiatives with some reasonable number of signature requirements. And maybe you put in place

some system where entities help draft such ballot initiatives. But I'm in favor of the ballot initiatives for sure. Speaker 4 Yeah, great. Thank you for that perspective. I think that all sounds quite logical. I'm disappointed we don't have that option right now in Indiana, as you mentioned. Right. But having a neighboring state next door that sort of hopefully this will become legislation legislation, but makes me feel a little safer as a woman who, you know, is still of an age that could have a child. And so thank you, Ohio voters. But I'd love to see that in Indiana sometime soon, too. So thank you for your thoughts. Alexander from Indiana, thank you so much. Great to hear from you. Why don't we go next to Harvey from Orlando, Florida? Harvey from Orlando, Florida, is undecided in the 2024

election. What's going on? What's on your mind? Speaker 4 David, thank you for taking my call. Yes, I am undecided, but I'm mainly saying that because things are not like necessarily official right now with the nominees of both parties. But I'm basically. Hello. And anyone but Trump voter. Anyone but Trump. Got it. Yeah. Sorry. Can you hear me? Yes, yes yes so um no so my my question i wanted to ask you about was um you know i've become really concerned about the way that i see internet culture and alternative media um shaping some political discourse in recent times yeah and one of the biggest issues that i'm noticing is um what i call like these like fake pseudo-centrists um just to give an example i saw you did an interview with the trigonometry guys who like claim to be

centrist but generally are you know conservative leaning did i interview wait a wait who did i interview you you were on the trigonometry podcast oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. People like them that claim to be centrist, but generally are, you know, super vaccine skeptical or, you know, think that Trump did everything great, except, you know, maybe he was just like a little rough around the edges. And a lot of things that I think really minimize right wing extremism. And I just don't I just see it becoming like a bigger problem. And for a lot of like layman people that are not really into politics, it's really able to capture them and bring them down the pipeline. And I don't know how we stop this. Speaker 1

I agree with you completely. There are these supposed centrists who portray themselves as being above the partisan fray and they will tell you what's really going on and you can count on them to not mislead you and this whole sort of thing. I think it is. Unfortunately, a lot of people are falling for it. I sometimes pejoratively call it enlightened centrism. And in reality, it is very much not that there's a couple different problems with this. Number one, in general, anyone who tells you I am the person that has sorted through all of the biases and you can get the truth from me, anybody who claims to be the ultimate source of truth, I think it's good to have a natural skepticism of that's first and foremost, number one. Secondly, a lot of these folks are positioning themselves as correct by saying, here's the midpoint of what two sides

want, as if the midpoint is necessarily the right place to be on a lot of issues. That's not the truth. You know, you bring on someone who accepts the climate science and someone who denies it and you go, well, the truth must be somewhere in the middle. No, the truth is the person who accepts the climate science. Right. So I think that it's dangerous for that reason. And then number three, as you're rightly pointing out, many of these centrists aren't actually centrists.

They're actually right wing. So well said. And I completely share your concern about this. Yeah. And I think some of them may actually think they're centrist. I think probably more of them are just generally bad faith. And I see a lot of them operating in like the way they operate is using a lot of false equivalencies and red herrings, like trying to say, OK, yeah, I don't like Trump denying the election results and trying to end democracy.

But, you know, Hillary kind of did the same thing. I mean, it's just a total false equivalency and not an honest assessment of of the two comparisons. And I for people that like don't know like the full facts on like these issues, it's easy to fall for that is the problem that I'm seeing. I agree with you. It's too easy to fall for it. And, you know, to say one thing that's sort of positive, it's some of the people falling for it.

I genuinely believe that they are actually looking for a source of truth and to know reality. I don't necessarily fault them. I understand the desire to find that ultimate truth. It's just that some of the people that are offering it are not particularly trustworthy. Okay. Yeah, no, I, I agree. And, and, uh, less, less thing kind of related to this. Do you have any plans to, uh, have a conversation with, uh, Sam Harris again? I feel like, uh, him and his association with the intellectual dark web kind of like gave birth to this. And I've, I've noticed like he's been speaking out recently on this problem with the alternative media space. And it seems like he's been coming to realize he kind of created a problem with this. And for that reason, he's become kind of like an enemy. And he's been like a villainized right of center and like alternative media in general.

They've been trying to like gaslight to thinking that he's lost his mind when I think he's speaking pretty irrationally. The right hates Sam Harris right now. They are furious with him and some on the left are as well. It's very interesting. I would love to have him back on. I've invited him back on so far. We just haven't been able to make it happen, but I would be very interested in speaking to Sam again. Yeah, no, I think that would be a cool conversation. OK, thank you so much, Dave. All right, Harvey from Orlando. Great to hear from you. Why don't we go next to Chelsea from Wisconsin? Chelsea from Wisconsin. Welcome to The David Pakman Show. What's on your mind today? Hi, David, can you hear me? Yes, I can. OK, I'm just going to straight read something that I wrote because I will mess it up if I don't do that.

Okay. Okay. No problem. All right. I have two questions about health insurance. So first of all, I worry all the time about what will happen to the insurance provided on the marketplace with Obamacare. I have a lot of health conditions and without that insurance being available and the tax credits, I would get very sick because I wouldn't be able to afford insurance, which by the way,

I have to disagree with you that the insurance is terrible. It's definitely not the best, but I think it could be worse. And if you're lower income, you get the subsidies. So there's two different things here, Chelsea. So this relates to something I said the other day about the plan I get from the New York State Health Connector. Yeah, you were complaining. The plans I have access to because I don't get a subsidy are really expensive and mediocre. Separately, blue states, including Wisconsin, New York, Massachusetts and others for lower

income folks who get free or dramatically discounted plans. The plans are often absolutely fantastic. So there's two different two different things there. And my plan is a different different type of plan. So you're 100 percent correct there. OK, so, OK, I got you. My question is, so you talk about Trump and DeSantis and their nonexistent health plans. But what are like the real world possibilities that I should actually be worrying about that could actually happen and maybe prepare for and not just worry about this existential threat to my health care? This is a great question. OK. And part of my ability to answer this will be limited by the fact that I'm not as familiar with Wisconsin as maybe you are.

But here's this is a great question because it's practical. OK, let's imagine somehow Trump wins and, quote, gets rid of Obamacare and doesn't replace it with anything. Now, Chelsea, it's possible Trump will get rid of Obamacare and replace it with something that will give you some benefits. We don't know. It's possible Trump will fail to get rid of Obamacare. But let's imagine he gets rid of Obamacare and puts nothing else in its place. What will happen will depend on what your state has in and of itself. So I'll give you an example. When I was growing up in Massachusetts, we already had something called Romney care. And so when Obamacare came in, Romney care already met all of the requirements of Obamacare. And so essentially nothing changed.

And if Obamacare went away, not much would change. Some of the funding sources might be realigned around the edge of something that change. But so that's an example where from that the from everybody in health policy I've spoken to in Massachusetts, if Obamacare went away in Massachusetts, nothing would change. So the first thing to find out is how tied to Obamacare is Wisconsin's plan that you are a part of. If it's not that tied to it, very little might change for you. OK, part of this has to do with what's called the Medicaid expansion. That's part of Obamacare. There's all sorts of specifics. So the way I would be thinking about it, Chelsea, is I would want to

know in Wisconsin before Obamacare, what was available to people in your exact situation? Once you answer that question, then you can think about, OK, what would I do in that scenario? But in your state and in many blue states, it might not be as bad as some people are worried it would be. OK. OK, awesome. I will look into that. And so my second question is a, it's about Medicare for all. So from what I understand, if you do Medicare for all, everyone's taxes are going to increase.

But wouldn't everyone then not have their regular monthly premium? And I can't imagine that taxes would increase more than what people are currently paying for their monthly premiums. So wouldn't everyone be saving money? And wouldn't everyone? Why isn't everyone for this? Speaker 1 This is an exactly correct way to approach this. If you install Medicare for all and say that it's going to be a system that is paid into, you would be paying something, but then you would no longer have copays, health insurance, premiums, coinsurance, all of these different things. The exact numbers are the source of some debate, right? Bernie Sanders, for example, looked at a four percent income based premium.

And if you compare that for households making a normal income versus what they currently spend on premiums through work plus copays plus everything else, they would end up saving some money. Not everybody would save, but a lot of people would. This is the idea of it. Now there are people who will say, you know, you don't even really need to add a 4% tax because you can actually just re reorganize spending from other areas. OK, well, so that's one approach. There's others who say four percent isn't going to be nearly enough or you're going

to need to pay the four percent plus keep paying some kind of copay or whatever the case may be. But the bottom line is Medicare for all would lead if you do it through a tax, it would lead to some increased tax for some. It will lead to savings in another side of the ledger for some. But you would, on balance, increase the efficiency of the system dramatically. You would eliminate the need for people who have no primary care to go to the ER for primary care, which is really expensive and it comes up the system. There would be all of these other intangible benefits as well. And you're thinking about this exactly the right way. I just I don't I don't understand the people that are against it.

It just seems so clear cut to me. I mean, listen, it does to me, too. But there's a lot of people that think differently from us. I have to be misunderstanding it because it just seems so, so clear cut. So, OK, thank you for explaining that. Chelsea from Wisconsin, thank you so much for the call. We're going to go to a break. We will be back after this and we will take live calls again. Fear not. People in my audience who sometimes struggle with sleep, you know, you've got those habit forming prescription medications which sometimes have side effects. You've got your herbal remedies that often do nothing. That's why the go to can be melatonin, which is clinically proven to work and without the

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and says, um, you may need to go to your safe space and console new Soam, the lame governor that was nearly recalled. By the way, all you have to do is take a trip to Cali and take a look around. Wake up. You know, I was just in California. I go to California frequently. I love it. I genuinely do. Now, does this mean there isn't homelessness? No, there's homelessness in California. There's homelessness in New York City, too. It's not a big shock to see that. Is it worse in the sense that it's more visible? The weather is really good. So it's understandable to me why one might rather be homeless where the weather is good than whether when the weather is three inches of slush in January as it is in New York City. I

get that. But California is one of the most dynamic economies in the world. Forget about in the U.S. As if California were a country, it would be one of the most dynamic economies in the world. Look at venture capital. Look at education. Look at medicine. Look at you. I don't have to give you the whole routine. So for those who want to argue California sucks, you don't have to live there.

For those who want to argue California taxes are too high. You don't have to pay them. You don't have to live there either. But understand that to some degree, to some degree, California is expensive with at least ostensibly high taxes. Effective taxes can actually be higher elsewhere. But because there's demand for people to live there, people want to live there and that drives prices up. So, Julie, it sounds like you won't be going to California. I don't think California will miss you. R.S. commented on YouTube. No, on tick tocks. The biggest threat to America is the satanic Democrat woke cult of lies, hate, violence and

pedophilia. I continue to react to these people in the exact same way as I have for a very long time. Tell me the names of the people that are Satanists, that are pedophiles, and I will look into it and we will see where it all shakes out. They always seem to stop short of telling me exactly who that is. I would love to know. Believe me, I would love to know. Sandra is asking, does Vivek wear a toupee? You know, there are lots of things that can be said about Vivek Ramaswamy from observing him that he wears a toupee doesn't seem like one of them to me. I don't know why it would make a difference.

It wouldn't affect his policies. It wouldn't affect anything about it. But, Sandra, I have no reason to believe that Vivek Ramaswamy is is wearing a toupee. Shaz Max commented on Facebook, Mitt Romney disrespected President Trump. That is unacceptable. President Trump is the best president in American history. He is beating the polls, beating them badly with a stick. He's beating the polls and has won at this point. This is the sort of epitome of the Trump cultist. Facts don't matter.

Grammar doesn't matter. Coherence doesn't matter. Nothing matters other than how can I defend my great cult leader? I continue to see no evidence that the path to the end of MAGA is convincing these folks of anything. I think they're essentially too far gone unless we had hours upon hours upon hours to devote to it. I believe the path is we just forget about these people. We get reasonable, sane people to go out to the polls and vote. And we just don't worry about people like Shaz Max. They're too far gone. Their brains are it's not good. It's not good. And that's where I would leave it.

Rickard posted to the subreddit and made a comparison on the numbers of Biden versus Trump economically and says, arm yourself with knowledge. Biden is better than Trump on jobs, GDP, unemployment and stock market jobs numbers. Biden created 14 million jobs. Trump lost two point nine million. That's true. Covid was a part of that without a doubt. But that's true. Manufacturing jobs up eight hundred thousand under Biden, down 150000 under Trump, highest labor force numbers under Biden, just under 168 million people in the workforce under Trump didn't even reach 165 million lowest unemployment rate under Trump. It was three point five.

Biden got down to three point four. And in terms of the highest unemployment rate of the presidency, Biden saw nothing higher than six point two. And Trump was all the way up to fourteen point seven. Again, the covid situation was a major part of that. This is all absolutely true. Now, whatever amount of responsibility, credit or blame you assign to the president for any of those numbers, you have to do it equally. If you say, I don't believe unemployment numbers are a reflection of presidential policy. Great. Don't talk about them when evaluating Trump nor Biden as president. Or if you say labor force participation has nothing to do with the president. Well, then you've got to apply that to both Trump and Biden. If you assign the same meaning to these numbers, regardless of who is

president, you can't come away with anything other than the realization that the numbers are all better under Biden. That's a really tough pill for a lot of Republican voters to swallow. Donna wrote in and said, I wonder how many Republicans hate Trump, but say they will vote for him just to see him get sacked in the election when they vote for someone else. You know, I don't think there's too many of these folks. Donna's idea is there are people voting Trump in the primary so that he will be the nominee and then suffer a humiliating defeat in November of 2024. I've not heard a single Republican say this. Could they all be keeping it secret? Maybe. But my message to anybody who might be doing this is it's dangerous. Wouldn't do it. If Trump becomes the nominee, assuming he will lose in November is very risky. And so I don't

know if there's anyone in my audience with this idea, but I would encourage you not to go with it. Cosmo posted to the subreddit Trump should have won 2020. And Cosmo writes, I'm not saying he won like some crazy guy, just that if he would have won in 2020, I believe a second term would have been less crazy than everything we've experienced in the last three years and way less dangerous than if he wins in 2024. I'm not convinced of that. Trump's second term, as it would be in 2024, right? There's no difference. Trump's second term, as it would be in 2024, right, that there's no difference. Trump's second term. Would have been completely unrestrained. Fascist wannabe authoritarianism and whether it's more or less unhinged if it starts in January of 2021 or January of 2025, I don't know for sure, but I think it is very dangerous to assume that the less serious

scenario would have been Trump winning in 2020 and getting four very unrestrained years. Reflex point posted to the subreddit. People have very short memories. While we worry about fallout from the left over Biden's handling of the Israel situation, we have to keep in mind that for better or for worse, most people have the attention spans of gnats. As soon as something is out of the news cycle, it's forgotten about pretty quickly. I don't think the bombing in Gaza will continue that much longer. The bombing campaigns will become gradually less over time and it will fade into the background

the way Ukraine has. What people are upset about today is not likely what they will be upset about in 11 months. Maybe we're worrying about day to day public sentiment, which is extremely fickle as it is. I frequently have to remind myself, take a deep breath. Stop getting caught up in the horse race element of this. Focus on the long game. I think there's a generally accurate point here, which is there was a point at which many of us felt Ukraine is going to determine the next election.

And I don't know of anybody today who is saying November's election is going to be determined by what's happening in Ukraine. There are lots of people now saying the November election will be determined by Joe Biden's involvement or lack thereof in what's happening in Israel and in Gaza. I doubt it. I doubt it. And I know that there's something special when I say this about any other issue. People will say, oh, yeah, that makes sense.

When I say I don't think Biden's reelection is going to come down to Israel, Gaza. No, David, you Zionist, a defender of killing children or whatever. I just don't think it will. I think this person is basically correct. The military action is going to diminish over time. And I don't know what is going to be the determining factor in November. Trump will be in the middle of criminal trials. Trump and Biden will both be nearly a year older. I don't know what it's going to be, but voters do have very short memories. If you have something to say, ideally, politely, with some respect, you can email info at David Pakman dot com. We have a fantastic bonus show coming up for you today.

Remember that there's the show and then there's the bonus show. David Pakman membership costs six bucks a month. Right. As Howard Stern says, it does. Oh, the bonus show where you want to make money. Everybody else that makes money to fund themselves is bad. The bonus show is part of how we fund the show, as Alex Jones pointed out. And also, if you like the show, you get more show as a member. So consider signing up at join Pacman dot com. We'll see you on the bonus show and I'll be back here on Monday.