The David Pakman Show - 1/6/23: They Lie Because They Can, Trump Delusional in New Interview

Episode Date: January 6, 2023

-- On the Show: -- David discusses the phenomenon of lying becoming more acceptable in American politics -- Donald Trump does a delusional over-the-phone interview with Dr. Darren Beattie -- Caller asks what the biggest upset was of the 2022 midterms -- Caller asks if it's possible to be an ethical consumer in a capitalist society -- Caller suggests states make pro-choice license plates -- Caller talks about the Republican migrant border stunts -- Caller asks how Democrats can use Republican infighting to their benefit -- Caller talks about strict father morality as it pertains to immigration -- Caller asks if social security is a socialist program -- David responds to viewer emails and social media messages -- On the Bonus Show: Republicans are in no position to complain about tyranny of the minority, Putin wants a break from fighting for Orthodox Christmas, states criminalizing homelessness, and much more... 💪 Athletic Greens is offering FREE year-supply of Vitamin D at https://athleticgreens.com/pakman 💻 Stay protected! Try Aura FREE for 2 weeks: https://aura.com/pakman ❄️ ChiliSleep by SleepMe: Get 25% OFF your bed-cooling system at https://chilisleep.com/pakman 😁 Zippix Toothpicks: Code PAKMAN saves you 10% at https://zippixtoothpicks.com -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Subscribe to Pakman Finance: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanfinance -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

Speaker 1 I want to start today by talking about how lying became acceptable in American politics. You know, we've talked about George Santos over the last several weeks. We've seen the lies of so many Republicans in the context of the House speaker fiasco. And it's just liars and liars and liars. And of course, we saw four years of Donald Trump and the amount of dishonesty that was that was there. It is unfortunately true that lying has become acceptable in the sense that it does not significantly damage a politician or candidates chances of winning elected office. While it's generally understood like, oh, lying is bad in some cultural sense, we still

sort of look down at lying. Politicians regularly lie or mislead the public without really suffering significant consequences. And in fact, in some cases, politicians have been able to win elections after being caught in really, really bad lies. How did this come to be? One reason for this is that it's become easier for politicians to get away with lying because of the proliferation of news sources and the spread of misinformation on social media. It can actually be tougher for the average person who's busy

working to sort through all of the information and determine what's true and what is not true, which means that politicians can make false statements and have them spread quickly, even if they're later debunked and often avoid any consequences. The political climate is increasingly divisive and partisan, and politicians might feel pressure to lie in order to win or to advance their agendas. They may feel that the ends justify the means and that lying is a necessary part of the game. And it seems as though many voters agree with that, that same partisanship and polarization. I've talked about it before is, you know, we see ourselves as fighting a war here. And even if the battle is lost in the sense that we made stuff up,

it's for the greater good of winning this war. And so when you have the politicians willing to do it and the voters unwilling to punish for it, you get what is essentially acceptable lying. It's important for citizens to hold politicians accountable for the things they say and the things they do and to demand transparency and honesty. And it would be really difficult to completely eliminate lying in politics. But we have a situation right now where voters are as welcoming as ever of lies if they further

what those voters already believe should be what our elected officials are doing. Many examples of like pretty big lies in history. And we can talk about some of them. George H.W. Bush. Remember the whole read my lips, no new taxes thing. During his 88 presidential campaign, he famously promised not going to raise taxes in office. He signed a budget deal that included tax increases. His broken promise was criticized. But we could say the damage wasn't massive, even though he did lose. Right. Ultimately, he did lose in 1992

to Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton then said, I did not have sexual relations with that woman. He did. It was just a straight up lie. And although it did lead to what we know, the investigation, the impeachment, all this different stuff, his approval rating really didn't suffer. And ultimately he got himself reelected. So another example. And again, I'm not passing value judgments on these. These are just examples of lying, essentially being acceptable. Barack Obama, not everything Obama said worked out to be true. And Barack Obama said, if you like your health care plan, you can keep it. This was during the debate around the Affordable Care Act known as Obamacare. Let's assume he meant it at the time or he wanted it to be true. There are people who lost their health care plans even though they like them because the

new law made them invalid or noncompliant, I think would be the way to say it. And there was controversy around it. Republicans talked about it. Barack Obama was reelected in 2012. Now there were so many other things going on. We can't simply say he lied about that and then got reelected. It's more complicated than that. But we're building up this picture. And then with Trump, it's quite literally thousands, thousands, thousands of lies,

some big, some small. Just to pick a few different things. Trump's claims about voter fraud in 2016. He said he actually won the popular vote. He didn't. In 2020, he said he won the election. He didn't. Major lie. Absolutely huge lie. His supporters just bought it. They believe it. They aren't. They didn't punish him for those obvious lies. Trump's obvious lies about the size of the inauguration crowd, Trump's claims about coronavirus, 15 cases will be zero and, you know, inject bleach, all this different stuff, lies, dishonesty, et cetera. So at the end of the day, it's important for citizens to hold politicians accountable for their words and for their actions. And part of that has to be that it has to be unacceptable to the voters

to have the level of lying and dishonesty that we have seen, particularly from more recent leaders. The missing link is as follows. Voters are more willing to overlook or excuse lies and dishonesty when politicians from their party are the ones telling the lies. And this can happen out of a sense of loyalty, out of a sense of, well, the other side is way, way, way worse. And in the highly partisan political climate that we have, voters are already tending to seek out information that supports their preexisting beliefs. This is called confirmation bias that leads to the spread of misinformation and it leads to the acceptance or at minimum, at minimum, the indifference to misleading statements, overt lies, as long as they align with your political views. I try not to fall for this. And if I see something that the

left is saying that doesn't make sense, I don't go with it. You know, I know there's lots of people on the left who still say GMO food is bad just by virtue of being GMO. I don't see the facts backing that up. I don't see the studies in the science backing that up. So I don't repeat it regardless of who it is that's on one side or the other side of the issue. It's a minor example, but it's an example. We should all be striving to do that. And until that changes, lying will continue to be a viable strategy in American politics. What ultimately happens with George Santos, where it's so extreme and cartoonish? We don't know. We will see. Donald Trump gave an interview so delusional that even the very friendly host, Darren Beatty, was not able to save him. This is really something else. And Trump, as we know,

has barely left his house since announcing that he was running for president for the 2024 Republican nomination. He is increasingly beaten down and defeated morally and increasingly a laughingstock doesn't mean he won't be the nominee. Doesn't mean that. But it's getting even more pathetic than it has been. He was interviewed on Revolver News by Darren Beattie, and he says he's reading Twitter's only shot at survival is if he goes back on and abandons his existing platform. Truth central truth central. Listen to this. There are those that are saying that Twitter can never be Twitter unless they go back on. I'm very complimented by that. And I only say it because there are about 20 articles about it. Right. Twitter can never make it if they don't

have Trump back on. And if you look at the truth that I put out today and some. He put out some truths or troth's. Going to be put out momentarily. I think you'll see that, you know, that number one, they're correct. Number two, they're good for the country and they are pretty well crafted. And let's say those troth's are nicely crafted. But I hope you're going to look at the ones that I just put out. And did you see the ones I put out today? Yes. Yes. No, they're very good.

And we'll go again. Yeah, they're just really, really good. Truth. I mean, the host sounds like he realizes how cringy it is to have to tell Trump his truths are good. But then it gets even worse where Darren Beatty starts sucking up to Trump saying, oh, sir, you're the only guy to keep us out of a war. And it just gets worse and worse and worse. One of the only presidents in a long time not to bring us into any new wars.

And that's something people really need to appreciate, especially given all of Biden's failings in the foreign policy stage. Well, Putin would have never gone into Ukraine, 100%. I used to talk to him about it. There's zero chance. She would never have even thought about Taiwan, which he is thinking about seriously. He wouldn't have ever thought about it.

The Afghanistan removal was so bad that it gave them additional momentum. That would have never happened. I would have. I was the one that got our soldiers way down. But I would have kept Bagram, definitely, because of China. You know, one hour away from China's nuclear plants where they make their nuclear weapons. So I would have done that.

But, you know, we would have had the soldiers take it out last, not take it out first in Afghanistan. So, you know, all those things, those big mistakes that were made were so bad. You know, this idea that Trump's the only guy and who knows how long to keep us out of new wars or whatever. You know, the truth is Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, Nixon, they all served, uh, more recently than is often pointed to Eisenhower and didn't bring the country into new wars. Now, of course, a lot of this is in the, you know, the devil is in the details. Are we talking about an authorized authorization for

military force? Are we talking about bombing? Are we talking about droning? Trump did plenty of droning and that the, the phraseology of new wars is so tired, but he continues repeating it. And it's just it's bogus. And even on a national security, I think when Putin looked at that whole disaster in Afghanistan, he said, this is my time to do it. But, you know, I was the only one in four or five presidents where Russia didn't take over land and made a move at it.

And again, even that's not really true because Russia did consolidate its presence in the Donetsk and the Luhansk. And to say take over, I mean, listen, they didn't announce an annexation until Biden was president, but they were there. Every single one of these claims is meaningless. And even this friendliest of friendly hosts can't make Trump look like he has any clue what he is talking about. Join me to a Wednesday, January 11th, 6 p.m. for the next David Pakman show town hall. It'll be live streaming and you can participate on our discord at David Pakman dot com slash discord. That'll be 6 p.m. East, 3 p.m. West on Wednesday, January 11th. It's a new year. Many of us are trying to make new positive changes. Here's something really

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You can sign up and support the work that we do, All of us at join Pacman dot com. You can use the coupon code 24 starts now to get yourself a discount whether you need it or not. We don't means test the discounts. Take it if you want it. And you also, of course, are more than welcome to sign up on any of the other platforms on which we allow that. All right. Let's talk to people from the audience. We do this via discord at David Pakman dot com slash discord. We have so many people waiting to chat. So let's not delay any further. Let's really get right into it. Why don't we first talk to and again, this is just first let's talk to Drew from New York. Drew, welcome to the program. What's on your mind today?

What can you hear me? Yes, I can. Wonderful. It's great to be here. My first time on call. Great. What's going on today? So first question, given that right now they're doing, I think, the fourth ballot for the House. If what do you think the over under is for 12 ballots? Honestly, I have no idea. And by the time this airs, we'll almost certainly know what the outcome was. So I don't even want to wade into that. That's fair. That's fair. The questions I've had, I've been holding on for since the midterms.

But so I don't know. I don't hope you don't mind if I ask about not at all. So in your opinion, what do you think was the biggest single upset for any of any of the individual elections from the midterms? Speaker 1 Oh, you know what? My memory goes blank like five days after any event until I review the biggest upset. Well, I mean, in a sense, it was even though she still won the narrow margin that Lauren Boebert ended up going by, like it wasn't an upset and that she still came away a winner, but it was such a slim margin. So I I mean, I think that that was

very interesting. There were a number of races where the margin was was much smaller for the Republican than expected. And it just all kind of goes to is MAGA deflating? And we'll we'll know probably pretty soon if the answer is yes. That makes that makes sense. I had always had it in mind that for me, though, it was the Wisconsin governor, not just the fact that Evers is able to win, but by the margin that he was able to. Yeah, that's that's a good one. That may be it. Yeah, I would have to review.

You caught me off guard, but there were a number of them, Drew. Right. And the last one, this should be quick, given with the last midterm election being decided with the runoff, would you rather be a vampire or a werewolf? Well, I think I would rather be a werewolf because the idea of drinking blood is very unappealing to me. That's true. Yeah, that would that wouldn't work for me, I don't think. All right. All right, my friend, thank you for the call. Thank you. All right. There goes Drew with a number of questions. We always love to see that. Let's go. Why don't we go next to Yoel or Yoel from Ontario, Canada, our friendly neighbors to the north? What's going on? Is it Yoel?

Yes, it's Yoel. Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you fine. My question is, do you think it's possible to be an ethical consumer in today's global society? Yeah, you know, I've got you. It wasn't you who called with this exact same question like a month ago, right? No, it was. OK, yeah. So, OK, here's here's the thing. Let's assume the answer is no.

You can't be an ethical consumer in this society. Then then what do we do? What's what do we do based on that? If that were the answer, just indulge me for a moment. Let's say I said, you know, you all you all you can't be an ethical consumer right now. Nope. What would you what would you do? Are you asking me personally?

Yeah. I guess you have to just kind of do the best you can. That's why I'm asking you, really, is because, for example, the World Cup was on recently. Yeah. And initially I was going to boycott it out of obviously the human rights violations of migrant workers dying and whatnot but then i realized my hypocrisy was for example if i go to england or germany or whatever those world cups and those leagues still sponsor i take sponsors from nike and adidas and other companies that still exploit workers and in china and in Bangladesh and whatnot. Right. So it almost

seems like no matter what I do. I mean, I'm in a I'm just being a hypocrite, you know, I'm choosing what I think is personally important to me. I know exactly what you're saying. This is the difficulty. And we've we need to find the balance between living completely off the grid and isolating yourself from all of these things, which almost none of us are willing to do. I mean, almost literally no one is willing to do that or doing the best we can to both make decisions. We feel OK. It doesn't we don't have to feel great, but we feel like we can accept the decisions we're making and where we think things are not right. Doing what we can as activists to affect change. So at the end of

the day, I mean, you make a good point. I covered for a decade leading up to the Qatar World Cup. There was corruption in how Qatar got the World Cup, horrible treatment of what are essentially slaves building the stadiums, deaths and cover up of the deaths, promises made by the Qataris about kosher food and LGBT people and all these things that they went back to all this different stuff. And I covered it all along. And then we get to the games. At this point, the cake is baked. And I want to see Argentina. You know, I the cake is baked and I want to see Argentina. You know, I was born in Argentina. I want to see if Argentina wins and and and Argentina won. And it was a great thing. Where where is the balance? Do I feel OK enough with the fact that after a decade

of talking about how horrible it was, I watched a couple of games. You know, I do. I'm OK with it in the grand scheme of my life. And everybody has to kind of decide for themselves. Yeah, I kind of feel like in a sense it's almost too much for an individual to take the burden, trying to boycott every little thing. I kind of think it relies more so on us turning to international organizations to kind of place better restrictions on where, for example, a lot of cobalt comes from slave mines in the Congo. I think it's too much of a burden for me to boycott all rechargeable batteries

because it's just not a good life to live. I think it relies more so on the UN and international bodies to sort of act in our favor to try and orchestrate some way where it's reasonable for me to be an ethical consumer. It's not on me to just sort of. Boycott every little thing, because that would just make my life miserable. I agree with that.

I also think that as activists and voters, we need to demand of those organizations that they actually do the things you're talking about, you know, so so there's really an element of all these things. But I think you're thinking about this roughly the way I am. Right. Yeah. Just because I've just it made me feel bad kind of initially watching the World Cup. But then I just realized that, like, it's just too much of a burden for one person to

put on their shoulders to try and boycott every little thing that's wrong about the world. Right. Especially if it's a globalized economy. Speaker 1 and that doesn't mean we give up and it doesn't mean we don't care. Yeah, I appreciate the call. You all. Thank you. Thank you. All right. There's Yoel from Ontario. Great to hear from him. Very, very exciting stuff. Let's go to Stoney from Indiana. Stoney from Indiana. Welcome to the program. What's on your mind today? Yeah.

Yeah. Hey, David, can you hear me? Yes, I can. Stoney. Welcome. Awesome. Thank you. Yeah.

So I had a question, obviously, either whether you're Republican or Democrat, everyone knows funding is how our system runs. I find it interesting in a state like Indiana, for example, with the overturning of Roe v. Wade, there's no real way to support that other than donating to certain nonprofit organizations. But for example, there's fundraising through like license plates. So there's, you know, Riley's Children's Hospitals, they even have one for Tony Stewart, who is, you know, a murderer, as we all know. But there's nothing for abortion. So do you know why that is or how you can change that? I don't. So just so I understand, Stoney, you're talking about how in some states there's these like pro-life license

plates where when you choose it, it's like I remember up in Massachusetts, you could get one that was like Cape Cod and the islands and a little money went to conservation or you could get one that was whatever else you're saying that there are states where you're basically a portion of your vanity plate goes to an anti abortion charity. But you've never seen one that goes to a pro choice organization. Exactly. I haven't either. And I don't know the answer. I don't know why. I genuinely have no idea why. I've seen that. I've done a bit of research on it, but it's a bit convoluted. There's around 14 states or so that offer something around that range that offers some

sort of pro-life sort of play. I believe I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but from what I've read, if you have like a nonprofit organization, they can submit and have it approved. And it started, of course, in Florida with Jeb Bush sued and got it overturned. It's got an interesting history. But from what I've been able to gather, the only states that you can really find this in are obviously like California and Oregon and places like that. But in, you know, the Midwest, for example, you can't you can find religious vanity plates. You can we have, you know, 60 different available options to us, even the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, etc. But there's nothing for us everyday people to a support pro-life and be be able to. I think you mean support pro-choice, right? You meant support pro-choice. Right. You meant pro-choice. Yes, yes. Correct. Yeah. I mean, if it's as you describe, then it sounds like it requires the

activism of submitting and then getting enough votes to make that an option in states. I don't know enough about it, but if that's the case, it's a question of getting an activist campaign going to demand it. Yes, I agree. I think it's just one simple way we give back for that. So, yeah, thank you very much, David. All right. Stoney from Indiana. Thank you very much for the call. I appreciate that. Why don't we go next? Just I mean, listen, we're taking calls. We're all here. We're connected. Let's just talk to a few other people. Let's go to Elon from New York. Elon from New York. Welcome to the program.

What's going on? Can you hear me? Yes, I can. OK, you recently talked about in court about including nuclear energy as a way to combat climate change and as more interest in nuclear energy as a way to combat climate change. And as more interest in nuclear energy starts to grow, do you think that maybe we should start considering thorium as an energy source? Have you heard of thorium? I've heard about it. I don't know enough about it to be able to really say, you know, we did an interview about, you know, fission

and fusion and the advancement there. And we've talked about new nuclear as a bridge to totally renewable green energy, etc. I just don't know enough about thorium to intelligently weigh in on it. Oh, can I give you some examples as what I've heard to convince you? Yeah. I mean, are you actually knowledgeable enough? But you're not just spitballing here. You actually know about it. Speaker 3 I did some research on it. I'm a physics major and I studied some just some with some articles on Dorian. Speaker 1 OK, well, tell me what it is. Explain to me in the simplest terms. This is a real test of whether one understands something, whether you can explain it in really simple terms.

Speaker 3 Well, thorium is as I'm saying, thorium on the periodic table is not a top number is number 90. It's three times more available to the planet than uranium. It's easier to mine. It has higher concentrations in its ore than uranium. And one of the things that scientists are saying that it's the scientist study says is that it's that while that with plutonium, it can produce up to 30 times more energy

than uranium, which is up to two times more, which is two point mil by one ton of thorium can produce up to 2.5 million. And one ton of thorium is equal to clean enough energy equivalent to two point five million tons of coal. And it's much more cleaner and efficient than than the coal mining industry. I'm sorry, I'm still balling, but that's what I'm pulling from from my brain. OK, well, listen, I mean, it sounds interesting.

I don't know that right now I'm going to learn enough about it to be able to weigh in, but let me research it. Okay. It's just an interesting topic. And I feel that with nuclear energy being more acceptable, particularly, I'm not sure how much the left accepted. I think we should consider all our options instead of just, I know we're a fan of renewable energy, but I think we should consider all our options in regarding a serious issue like climate change. Speaker 1 We should always consider all of our options that I'm with you. Speaker 4 OK. And also a quick question. Now that now that we're heading into the two twenty four election season, do you think what other methods, what main methods do you think the left needs to improve on in terms of marketing there? Ensure that whatever candidates or.

Whatever the agenda is for the upcoming elections. So before we even get to tactics, before we even get the tactics, the left has to dramatically improve its messaging and decide on exactly what the platform and the sales pitch essentially is going to be. The left is a little bit all over the place on that before we even talk about marketing tactics. They got it. They got to figure that out. All right, my friend, I appreciate the call. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. A lot of things on people's minds today. Very, very much things on people's minds, which is important. Why don't we go next to Simon from Montana? Simon, welcome to the program. What's going

on in Montana? Do you hear me? Yes, I can. Oh, that's awesome. Long time viewer. I really love your show and I look forward to it every day. Well, I appreciate that. What's it like living in Montana? I have a friend who's a doctor who does medicine seasonally in Montana and finds it a very, very interesting place. Oh, that's that's awesome. Do you know what town he lives in? Well, I don't want to say. Oh, because it's so rural there that there might only be 10 people in that town and everyone

will know who I'm talking about, you know? Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Well, it's very cold right now. And yeah, a lot of a lot of red. I live in sort of a blue bubble in one of the two blue bubbles, I will say. So you don't have like a 45 minute drive to get groceries or anything like that? No, that's good. It's pretty good here. That's for sure. It's all right.

Speaker 1 If you want to go to like Europe, do you have to what you fly to like Chicago and then Chicago to Europe? Or is it more complicated than that? Speaker 2 Um, well, our airport goes, I would say generally we take our airport to yeah, somewhere like I guess Spokane or something like that is generally where I've been going. Speaker 1 Huh. But from Spokane, I can't imagine you're getting to London, for example, right? Speaker 3 Oh, no. Well, I've only been to Mexico out of the country and I believe we went somewhere near

Spokane fair and then. Speaker 1 Well, what's I've had so many questions. It seems only fair to allow you to ask one. Well, thank you. I appreciate them. Um, and I, I was just, I've been wondering for the last couple of weeks, I know you've talked about the, um, migrant busing stunts that are absolutely disgusting and horrible, deplorable. And I just wanted to know, obviously, these people like Greg Abbott and DeSantis are doing it because they feel like it scores them political points with their base. Right. Otherwise, they wouldn't do to prevent us to stop that? Or I think we should be aiming resources at preventing this from being something that scores them political points because it's

obviously so horrifying if it doesn't score them political points. So so here's the issue. If it does score them political points, I don't know that the left can do much about that because it's working and their constituents like it. I do think being on the same page about explaining why it's deplorable and disgusting makes sense so that hopefully people who hear about it that might say, oh, that's interesting. That proves a point. Then they hear, oh, actually, here's why it's crazy. And it's financially a disaster and it's immoral and it's unethical and it's treating people like objects and pawns, et cetera. But what really we need is an electorate where it wouldn't score

the many points. So it's a much broader change that needs to be affected. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely a bit of a wicked issue there. Yeah. So, well, yeah, that was pretty much all that's on my mind. And it really is like I'm a big, strong guy. But with tears in my eyes, it is an honor to talk to you. And just last thing, can you get a good bagel in Montana? Oh, God, no, sir. OK, thank you very much. Well, now I'm the one who has tears in his eyes. Thanks. Thanks for the call, Simon. I appreciate it. Of course. We're going to take the quickest of breaks if you're still holding. We're going right back to the phones. So I would I would suggest that you stay with me here. Very quick break.

And then we will be right back and here for more of you. The science tells us that one of the best ways to get consistent deep sleep is lowering your core body temperature. When your body stays cooler at night, you're more comfortable and your sleep is better. Our sponsor, Sleep Me, is the home of Chili Sleep, the customizable climate controlled sleep solutions that can improve your sleep by keeping you cooler at night. There are three different chili sleep systems. There's the ruler, the cube and the new dock pro with double the cooling power. All three systems are water based, temperature controlled mattress toppers that fit over your existing mattress to Thank you so much, David. rate. I didn't know it was possible to love sleeping even more than I already did. Go to sleep dot me slash Pacman to learn more and get 25 percent off your new chilly sleep system.

Click on our chilly sleep link in the audience for the first time in 2023. We take calls via discord at David Pakman dot com slash discord. You can join the waiting lobby if you want to talk to me. You can raise your hand almost like fifth grade all over again, which is exciting. Let's go to Melody in Missouri. Melody in Missouri. Welcome to the program. What is on your mind today? And thank you for being a website member, by the way. I very much appreciate that. All right. Melody may be gone. That's too bad. I was looking forward to speaking

with Melody. Let's instead go to J.W.R. from Atlanta, Georgia. J.W.R., welcome. I know you won't let us down. Oh, of course not. I'm happy to. I'm I'm I'm happy that you were that you were able to. Happy to be here. I hope you're enjoying your new year.

Sorry if I seem to track it. I'm just kind of watching all the chaos unfold as they as he as McCarthy as McCarthy like I think he was Einstein who said that who define insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. And Republicans have certainly been doing that this week. Yes. OK, so regardless of how this turns out, what do you think I work regardless of how this turns out, what do you think? I work regardless of how this turns out. What do you think is, I guess, I guess House Democrats best chance of like using the chaos that is inevitably going to unfold in their in their in in their in their favor when it

comes to the next election cycle? Here's my thought. OK, Republicans are going to try to obstruct Democrats from getting anything done. And then in 2024, they're going to say, don't vote for these Democrats. They didn't get anything done. The opportunity for Democrats here, given that Democrats will control the Senate, do not control the House, but it's very close in the House is there should be situations where it's either going to be some kind of spending bill made up mostly of common sense stuff that all Americans want,

or we might get a debt ceiling situation or we are going to have things come up in the next couple of years where Democrats in the House and Senate are going to be united with the American people in the Senate. That will be one situation because Democrats control it. J.W., are you trying to talk over me? What's going on? Sorry. Are you talking to someone else or to me? Oh, no.

It's background noise. Oh, geez. OK. Oh, no, background noise. Oh, geez. OK, I so the point I'm trying to make is Democrats should have some opportunities to really make Republicans look very stupid and unnecessarily obstructionist in opposition to some bills that the entire American public will mostly be in favor of. Democrats have to just be prepared to take advantage of those opportunities to be able to fight back in 24 against the narrative that Democrats got nothing done. Thanks to Republicans force Republicans to either give you some wins or really make themselves look like they don't have the interests of the American people in mind if they do get in the way of every

single thing Democrats try to do. I think that's the one and only opportunity. Yes. And I would also like to add, like, well, not giving them any time to eat, like any easy or obvious wins that could that that could just as long as we don't do the thing where it's where we somehow manages to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, which is not completely which is not, which is not impossible. That's absolutely, absolutely the case. J.W.R. Thank you for the call. I appreciate it.

Of course. Always happy to be here. J.W.R. from Atlanta, Georgia. Wow. Let's go to Micah from Idaho. Micah from Idaho, not a heavily represented state among live callers. Welcome Micah. Hello.

Thank you. So I had two quick questions, if that's OK. But first, I wanted to see how your New Year's was. Did you do anything fun or. I had I had dinner with some friends and my baby daughter completely lost it. And that was basically it. Yeah. Oh, dang. Well, but the good news is the following. Another kid sneezed directly into my daughter's face and my daughter didn't get sick.

So I consider that a win. That is a win. My dog sneeze on my face basically every morning. It's it's fantastic. Your dogs highly recommend. Yes. Oh, we can humans get like stuff from dogs. They can't. Right. Other than like covid, there are a couple of like parasites that they can carry that dogs or that humans can get to. But for the most part, like Parvo and like the things that they typically deal with are more specifically dogs. All right. Well, good. Not good for the dogs. Good for the humans, I guess. Sure. But what's on your mind? Well, I was going to say so. You had a caller mention the the stunts with sending the migrants to to different places where they're not going like Kamala Harris's house. Yeah. Kamala Kamala. Kamala Kamala. OK. I was just wondering, so like, I don't really. See any political gain for anyone in that situation, like I don't I have a hard time

seeing like what the right wing would see as desirable in that, because you help me like understand what's going on there? Like, why? So here's what you need to understand to understand why Republicans think that that's a good idea. OK, Republicans have this ideology, I guess we would call it, which we sometimes call strict father morality, which means that people should suffer the consequences of their actions. If you have sexual relations outside of marriage, you should have to suffer the consequences of getting pregnant and carrying the child to term. You can't get a get out of jail free card like birth control or the morning after pill or an abortion. Right. Even if those are solutions that there's no real reason to prevent being available

to people. And similarly, Republicans believe and Micah, you have to get into the mind of the Republican. Republicans believe that it is Democrats and not Republicans, Democrats in blue states that are saying open the border, let everybody in no control at all. But even though Democrats aren't saying these things, this is the story Republicans tell themselves. So Republicans believe if Democrats in blue states are going to be the one letting everybody in, the immigrants should be sent to the blue states to make those blue states deal with the consequences of letting everybody in. It's all made up, Micah. Don't get me wrong,

but that's the internal logic that they apply to it. That's why they think it's a great thing to send the migrants to Martha's Vineyard and D.C. from Texas and Florida. OK, thank you. That makes a little more sense. Yeah, I mean, it makes no sense, but hopefully what they are thinking now you understand, which is insane. Yes, that is correct.

Yeah. All right. All right, Micah, thank you. Appreciate the call. OK, thanks. All right. There is Micah from Idaho with with a great question, quite frankly. Let's go to Louis from New Brunswick. Louis from New Brunswick. Welcome to the program. What's on your mind today? Louie from New Brunswick, I see that you've muted yourself. If you unmute yourself, we'll be able to talk. So sorry, that was that was my mistake. There you go. Thanks for having me, David. Great. Great to be here. Love your show. Pleasure. About a month ago, about 20 retired intelligence professionals penned a letter to The Wall Street Journal stating that in their opinion,

the Hunter Biden laptop story bore all the hallmark signs of a Russian operation. Yeah. And in fact, I believe it was 51. What number did you say? 20. I'm reading that it was 51 former Intel officials. Oh, OK. Yeah, you're right. I was just guessing based on my, you know, fond memory, but you're right, 51. And then I remember you covered a story a while ago of this strange origin story of how Madison Cawthorn got married. You know, some Russian woman came over to the US and like a fake fitness competition. My question to you, My question to you, Dave, is do you think that Russian intelligence services are much more ingrained in our society that we that we like accept or consider? So I think Russian intelligence is much more infiltrated in the United States than the average person is aware of. I think our intelligence agencies know the degree

to which it's the case. But yeah, I think that there are all sorts of ways in which the average American isn't aware. But it's not just Russia. I think it's important to mention there's lots of countries whose intelligence services are very ingrained and very slick. But Russia is certainly one of them. In your opinion, do you think it's possible that the Donald, the political Donald Trump that we are aware of in the current sense is in fact a product of this sort of infiltration? No, I don't have any evidence for that. I think, you know, we have to be really careful because next thing you know, the right wingers will be saying, oh, you you thought there was going to be video of Trump and Putin planning

stuff. I think Trump is sort of a useful idiot for a lot of different movements and people. And it's very clear from what we know that Russian intelligence took an interest in Trump decades ago to some degree as they take an interest in many American business people. It's not unique to Trump. But over time, they clearly realize Trump is kind of a doofus and his ego and his narcissism maybe make him a more interesting ally in some sense. And at the end of the day, we know Russia had a preference for Trump over Hillary in 2016 doesn't mean Trump's an agent or a spy or anything like that.

He's just kind of a useful idiot. That's the reality. OK, I guess that's comforting in a sense to you. Yeah, I mean, we don't have to go more conspiratorial than the facts point to. But to say there's nothing there, I mean, listen, he was doing he was being invited to Russia decades ago. Russia was casually cultivating him the way they do many. And they had a preference for Trump over Hillary

that we can say with certainty. Speaker 1 OK, got an economic question for you if you have time. Sure. So I got into a lively conversation with a couple of buddies at work, some, you know, all over the political spectrum. And I was I was wondering if you feel like Social Security is a socialistic program as opposed to, you know, looking at the spectrum, the political spectrum, economic spectrum, as opposed to like a fascistic policy. OK, and I was here's the issue with these terms. All right. OK. In some very general sense, any time you collect money for a program through taxation and then distribute the money in some narrowly defined way, you can argue it is, in a sense, socialistic. In practice, what we're talking about here are capitalist economies with social welfare programs where

the vast majority of the money you make at most incomes you get to keep some slice of it goes to programs. And there is some redistribution there. There is certainly there are certainly folks who get more than they put in and vice versa. That doesn't mean that it is a socialist country or economy. We might just be saying there are certain areas where we want to use the collective good for the betterment of society. And it becomes almost semantic when people say, is it socialistic? Well, maybe. What do you mean by that? But these are programs that every social democracy, which are capitalist countries, have. And it makes what we call it kind of irrelevant. Interesting. Well, yeah, because I felt like I feel like a universal

universal human response of disgust is towards hypocrisy. It doesn't matter like what religion, what creed, you know, everybody is usually offended by hypocrisy. So if this person was saying like, he's very, very right on the spectrum and was looking forward to receiving social security. And I was like, well, it's funny because that you're so excited about that. Cause I consider something like that. And I was like, well, it's funny because that you're so excited about that because I consider something like that and also unemployment insurance, socialistic policies. Yeah, I don't think they're socialistic. I think they're just social safety nets that come that are put in place in capitalist societies. And by the way, I mean, you pay into Social Security, so it makes sense that you should get money out in that in that sense. That's nothing like socialism, by their definition. So these semantic discussions in my mind really miss the point, Louis.

Interesting. David, it's been a pleasure talking to you today. The pleasure has been all on this side of the microphone, Louis. Thank you. All right. There goes Louis. Thank you to everyone that called in. That does it for today. We will take a break and we will take calls again if I have anything to say about it. alternative to smoking and vaping and the vape clouds, the ashtrays, the thing in your lip that people can see. I've seen that around. This is an easier and less messy way to curb the cravings. And you can use Zypix just about anywhere. Zypix is available in six flavors with two or three milligrams strength. The nicotine and the flavor are long lasting and Zypex has helped countless people kick the bad habits and they

are bad habits. Zypex toothpicks are FDA registered. Their customer service is second to none. It is one of the most cost effective alternatives. Also check out their B12 and caffeine toothpicks. See for yourself why so many people have switched to ZipX toothpicks. You can only get ZipX online. Go to ZipX toothpicks dot com and get 10 percent off with the code Pacman. That's Z I P P I X toothpicks dot com. Promo code Pacman. That's Z I P P I X toothpicks.com promo code Pacman saves you 10%. The info is in the podcast notes. All right, let's do the Friday mailbag. You can email info at David Pacman.com kicking off 2023. It's a very full mailbag. Um, you also sometimes sometimes will see a YouTube comment here or there or a Facebook message that we get or whatever the case may be. It's a mix of commentary. And we are going to start with

a message from Bruce delivered via the Facebook where Bruce says, you are real punk clown. You make average American sick lie. That's that's not American. That's American sick, lying, good liberal girl, whatever your pronoun is. F you. And then after being told I'm unable to respond to comments individually, Bruce writes back, not sure why this POS lying liberal clown Dave Packman garbage popped up on my Facebook, but can guarantee I can't stand feckless lying liberal cowards like him. Relay the message to Dave. He speaks for maybe 29 percent of Arizona at most effing punk clown. That's extremely specific. I speak for 29 percent of Arizona. I didn't claim to speak for any of Arizona, but apparently this guy says it's conceivable that I speak for 29 percent of Arizona. So this is a very angry person who seems totally disconnected from the reality in his state,

which is more people voted for Katie Hobbs. Katie Hobbs defeated Carrie Lake. Katie Hobbs is now, thankfully, the governor of Arizona. There aren't two governors. The governor is not Carrie Lake. Carrie Lake's not the governor elect. Carrie Lake is not going to use Kerry Lake's not the governor elect. Kerry Lake is not going to use a lawsuit to become the governor. Katie Hobbs won. This guy doesn't like it. Reality can be tough. Kevin wrote in and Kevin's this one is interesting. I bet you're like

five seven one thirty five pounds running your the F word for a gay person, liberal mouth like you're intimidating or something. It's always the unathletic looking pencil neck nerds like you who talk S like you're intimidating. Why are you are the wrong? You're like you're intimidating. You see the name and face. Remember it. You five seven F word for a gay person. Ha ha. That is unacceptable. Kevin, I am five eight one fifty. Please, sir. Please do not undersell me by an inch. This is a guy where where clearly he's lost the importance of inches that you can tell. Yeah. I mean, obviously, we know the best criticism of someone's political views is their height or their weight. Very, very nicely done. All right. Let's get into some more serious stuff. Tom Tom wrote in about alternatives to prison for Trump about a hypothetical Trump trial. What happens? Can you even really send

Trump to prison? And Tom writes, David, I predict that Trump will have to enter a plea deal to avoid a jury trial after an indictment is handed down. He won't be able to testify under oath, of course. And some of the evidence against him is certain to bring a conviction. A lot of the evidence Trump wouldn't want disclosed in open court. So here's what I think will happen. Trump will enter an Alford plea, allowing him to plead guilty without making specific admissions. In allowing this type of plea, the prosecution will need certain things. First, they'll need for Trump to return the missing documents he stole.

Without this action, there should be no deal. Then they should require him to withdraw his candidacy and as a condition, never seek elected office again, which would prohibit him from fundraising again. Lastly, he'll be required to serve in-house detention for a period of time to be determined. That period of time will prohibit him from mass communicating, fundraising, and he'll be similarly enjoined from most social activities like most prisoners. This will set up this setup will allow the Secret Service to continue to protect him while serving his sentence at Mar-a-Lago. It's not going to be the perfect answer, writes Tom. But the unusual circumstances preclude perfection. And while I'd prefer that Trump just go to trial, be convicted and sent to prison, my sense is that it's just not likely to happen.

Feel free to use this idea for the purpose of discussing likely outcome scenarios. Tom, that's I mean, it's a it's a very interesting suggestion. I've not checked with lawyers about its viability, but at the surface level, it seems completely plausible. I think it is important as my hair does something very, very weird. I think it is important that we take it step by step. The first step is simply, is there going to be an indictment? Increasingly, the expectation is yes. Let's get to that first step before we go further. All right. Let's now talk about incels. Last early last week, I did a commentary about incels and the response was overwhelming. We heard from incels. We heard from anti incels. We heard from all sorts of people.

So let's go through a few of the messages that I received. Daniel wrote in and said, in regards to how to help incels, I would propose a more European approach to the problem. Many countries in Europe have legal brothels. The sex industry does not have nearly the negative stigma in these countries as in the US. I don't suggest forcing anyone to work in prostitution, but I do suggest allowing people to make the choice of working in a legalized, regulated and guarded industry. Daniel writes, I am a former incel. I have had the opportunity to work in Germany and have used my per diem on several occasions for recreation in the Reaper Bond brothels. I found it was possible to build rapport with some of these women. When I came back to the US, I continued to pay for female companionship and was able to build rapport with many of these women. Gradually, I was able to move

to more normal ways of meeting, interacting and building relationships with women. I've not been with a prostitute in over a decade, but I'm not embarrassed that I found it to be therapeutic while I was in need of help. Sexual desire is a human natural human characteristic. People who are socially challenged should not be criminalized for seeking to fill this void, even though it's a business transaction. Feeling a bit of intimate contact and not being made to feel like a Frankenstein monster is a boost to the self-esteem. Brothels should be readily available to those in need, writes Daniel. Very interesting perspective that many people who emailed shared. Here's another message from Scott about incels where he says, David, in your recent segment regarding incels, you advocated for

increased mental health funding and support for these individuals, which I think would definitely be at the base of a multi-pronged effort that would be needed to address this issue. However, my feeling is that encouraging these people to seek one another out so they may find help or support is sort of what got us in here in the first place. Years ago, before social media and online forums, you never heard about incels. Now that people can access social media, have been able to locate other incels. I feel they get stuck in echo chambers that help to normalize and rationalize their feelings and that it's OK to hate women or men or whoever it is they feel rejected by, that it's OK to have

thoughts about committing violence against perceived enemies. It reminds me very much of the echo chambers many right wing extremists get caught up in that normalize and encourage violence. All this to say, I feel like the approach with incels should be a little more like deprogramming people lured into cults and discouraging use of social media to help with this problem. I mean, what better way for people to become sexually active than to get off their devices and actually interact in the flesh with others in the real world? So here's an idea that says not more online stuff. That doesn't seem good. Nick wrote in and also is thinking legal prostitution would help saying, David, I watch

your segment. I believe federally legalizing prostitution would really help this issue. The reality is that not everyone is going to be able to find a partner. Giving those people the option to pay for sex would really benefit their mental health by giving them an outlet for their sexual frustration. It's basically just providing a service to solve a problem just like anything else. If not for stigma surrounding prostitution in America, I believe in cells would almost cease to exist. What are your thoughts? Some certainly would. I think for many of them, the anxiety of even going to a sex worker would prevent them from

doing it. I don't know. I think there's something to this idea, but I think we need to explore it probably a little more, more deeply. Rich wrote in and says, thank you from an incel. David, sir, I commend and thank you for your segment on incels. I am an incel. I joined an emotional support group on Facebook. After some time, I expressed my loneliness and frustration and desire to improve my experience with dating. I got absolutely torn apart by people accusing me of all kinds of nasty things. Not one person commiserated or responded with empathy. For example, women don't owe you sex. No kidding. I'm not saying they should fall at my feet. I'm saying I want to improve myself so that I can have some success with dating. It was especially frustrating because it was an emotional support group.

I tried bringing attention to this failure for a couple of days until the moderators got involved, accusing me of the very same things and shaving me. I gave up. I left. I resent them to this day. And the one thing I wanted to say to them is something like this is exactly the kind of response that causes people like me to get radicalized. I'm not radicalized, says Rich. I never will be, but I am still very much an incel. And the stigma surrounding this is lonely and alienating. I just straight up don't know what to do about it. All I can say is I love to see people like you cover this with compassion and understanding and with differentiation between the radicalized incels and the regular everyday schmucks like me.

Much love, says Rich. Man, this is this is a complicated issue. That is for sure. And I really, really, really appreciate all of the feedback about that segment. We're going to cover it again. Lastly, Twitter wrote in and said, if Trump and his henchmen don't get put away, the world will think we are weak. People got hurt and the Capitol. Those charges should count, too. This is an argument, which is if there are no consequences to any of the organizers of the riots, what does it say about the people thinking about planning something similar? I think that's a fair question to ask. Info at David Pakman dot com. If you have something to say, we have a fantastic bonus show for you today. Remember, don't allow yourself to be blocked from the bonus show. Get the bonus show

by signing up at join Pakman dot com. And remember to subscribe to the YouTube channel. There's this sort of bystander effect where people watch our videos and they go, oh, he's got one point five million subscribers. I'm sure other people will subscribe to get him to two million. No, no, no, no, no. You can be that person. Don't fall prey to the bystander effect. So make sure you're subscribed on YouTube, youtube.com slash the David Pakman show. And we'll be at 2 million before you know it. See you on the bonus show.