The David Pakman Show - 2/27/25: Elon in cabinet meeting as DOGE wins quietly deleted

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

-- On the Show: -- Congressman Tom Suozzi (D-NY) joins David to discuss the forthcoming Republican tax plan, the state of the Democratic Party, and more -- Secretary of Health and Human Services Robert F. Kennedy Jr dismisses the seriousness of the child measles epidemic in Texas where one child has now died -- Donald Trump shocks his own cabinet at a cabinet meeting during which he talks about "bloated, fat, digusting" -- Elon Musk is part of Donald Trump's cabinet meeting for reasons that can't be clearly articulated -- DOGE quietly deletes its bigger "spending cuts" once it is revealed they are not really spending cuts -- Donald Trump and Republicans' new tax plan is exposed as a destroyer of the working class -- Donald Trump is officially the most unpopular president in 70 years based on approval during February of the first month of a term -- On the Bonus Show: Chief Justice John Roberts pauses order for Trump admin to pay $2 billion in foreign aid, Ohio GOP says people didn't know what they voted for on cannabis legalization, Gavin Newsom starts a podcast and will interview MAGA favorites, much more... 🍵 Pique: Get 20% OFF delicious Pu’er Teas at https://piquelife.com/pakman 🩳 SHEATH Underwear: Code PAKMAN for 20% OFF at https://sheathunderwear.com/pakman 🧽 Blueland: Get 15% OFF sustainable cleaning products at https://blueland.com/pakman 📈 Manifold: Get free Sweepcash when you sign up at https://manifold.markets/pakman 🛡️ Incogni lets you control your personal data! Get 60% off their annual plan: http://incogni.com/pakman 💻 Sponsored by Aura: Try it free for 2 weeks! See if your data is safe at https://aura.com/pakman -- Become a Member: https://davidpakman.com/membership -- Become a Patron: https://www.patreon.com/davidpakmanshow -- Get David's Books: https://davidpakman.com/echo -- TDPS Subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow -- David on Bluesky: https://davidpakman.com/bluesky -- David on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow

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Speaker 43 Speaker 42 Speaker 43 Speaker 45 Speaker 44 Speaker 45 Speaker 47 Speaker 46 Speaker 46 Speaker 47 Speaker 48 Speaker 49 Speaker 51 Speaker 51 Speaker 52 Speaker 52 Speaker 53 Speaker 54 Speaker 56 Speaker 57 Speaker 56 first cabinet meeting of the new administration, which took place yesterday. Yes, Elon Musk was there. Why? We don't know. But he was. And we'll talk about it. Yes. Donald Trump used the words. What were they bloated? Disgusting. Something else. We will talk about it. But one of the most disturbing moments in the first cabinet meeting yesterday was Secretary of Health and Human Services Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Bobby, right? As Trump likes to say, brushing off as typical, as normal, as not a big deal, that there is a massive measles outbreak in Texas. Now Robert F. Kennedy Jr. isn't stupid. He's wrong about a lot of things, but he's not stupid.

And so he knows exactly how to respond to try to minimize the importance of this outbreak. But he's missing a couple of key elements. And by the way, a child has now died thanks to the anti-vax caused measles outbreak in Texas. So let's listen to what Bobby had to say and then we'll talk about the details. There's a measles outbreak in Texas at the moment in which a child is reported to have died. Do you have concerns about that? And have you asked Secretary Kennedy to look into that? Well, why don't we, Bobby, you want to speak on that? We are following the measles epidemic every day.

I think there's 124 people who have contracted measles at this point, mainly in Kings County, Texas. Mainly, we're told, in the Mennonite community, there are two people who have died. But we're watching it, It's just, you know, there's a little epidemic, a little bit of an outbreak here. Now, a few of the things that are critical to understand that Bobby doesn't mention is it's mostly in the Mennonite community. What characteristic, what tradition, what reticence to do something is common to the Mennonite community that might explain this. Oh, that many of them don't

vaccinate their children might be a key thing to say. It also might be relevant for the secretary of health and human services to say, Hey, here's the thing. We don't need to panic about this, not because it isn't serious, but because we have a safe and very effective vaccine for measles. This is a community where anti-vax sentiment has spread. They don't have herd immunity. But what the American people can do, if you're worried about your kids, we can keep our own kids and everybody safe by getting the very safe and very effective measles vaccine. That would have been the thing to say as the top cabinet level health official of the United States of America.

But he didn't say that. And instead, he just sort of downplayed the whole thing. Now, measles outbreaks are not normal in the modern era. One hundred and twenty four cases in Texas would be a sign of a public health problem. And these outbreaks are preventable through vaccination. Now, when when Bobby says we have outbreaks, sometimes they aren't this big and people don't typically die. Measles is very contained, contagious. It's very dangerous.

And what we have here is an under vaccination caused situation. And so when he says it's not unusual, it minimizes that. No, it's not unusual to get four cases, but it is unusual to get 124. This is the worst outbreak in decades. It's not a benign illness. There are people who say measles must not be that bad because I don't hear about a lot of people dying of it. The reason is the vaccines. But getting measles can lead to complications, pneumonia, encephalitis. It can lead to death.

You don't need to look 50 years ago to find deaths. We've got two right now in Texas because of this outbreak. And of course, before vaccination, more than two million people a year died of measles. So when Bobby says it's normal, we follow it, but we have these. He's ignoring the severity of this one. He's ignoring the role of vaccination and being able to prevent this. Ninety seven percent effective is the vaccine, not at giving you a less serious case of measles, at preventing it altogether. And you do need about 95 percent of the population to be vaccinated to achieve what's called herd

immunity, protects those who can't be vaccinated, infants, immunocompromised people. I spoke on the award winning and world famous bonus show yesterday about how when my daughter was seven months old, she had not yet received her MMR because you get it at 12 months typically. And we went to the pediatrician and I said with tears in my eyes, ma'am, what about going to England? Should we be worried about taking her to England, which we did when she was seven months old because she hasn't yet had this vaccine? And the pediatrician looked at me with a straight face, a tear welled up in the corner of her eye, and it started dropping and sort of traced the curvature of her mouth. And she said, sir, if you were going to some anti-vax parts of the United States, I would be far more worried than about you taking your daughter to England.

And then we went to England and everybody on the plane saluted and cheered and said, sir, you've been treated so unfairly and she didn't get measles. OK, so in any case, some of that story is true. Bobby Kennedy Jr. dismissing this. It's typical. This is not typical. And it's very, very bad, bloated, fat and disgusting. No, this isn't what people called Trump at the cabinet meeting. This is what Trump said about the country. And we are going to get to that in a moment. Yes, Elon Musk was at the cabinet meeting. No, we don't know why. But what you may be shocked to hear, because we have separation of church and state in this country, of course, is that the cabinet meeting started with quite a prayer. Take a listen to this. Father, we thank you for this awesome privilege, Father, to be in your presence.

God, thank you that you've allowed us to see this day. The Bible says that your mercies are new every morning. And Father God, we give you the glory and the honor. Thank you, God, for President Trump, father, for appointing us. Father God, thank you for anointing us to do this job. Not only have they been appointed, but they've been anointed. OK, so once we got the prayer out of the way and the cabinet meeting started in earnest, bloated, fat and disgusting are the words that Donald Trump used. This country has gotten bloated and fat and disgusting and incompetent.

There you go. Not words. These are words that could be associated with Trump, but not in attacks on the country. Now, there was an attempt at substance at this cabinet meeting, not from Trump, but from the email fiasco, Doge sending out an email to every federal worker saying, tell us what you've been up to essentially justify your job here. And Trump says, I actually think maybe sending another email is a great idea. I have a question about back on these cuts to the federal workforce. You mentioned you're interested in doing another round of this email. When would you like to see that? What would be the deadline? And this time, would it be mandatory?

I think Elon wants to. And I think it's a good idea because, you know, those people, as I said before, they're on the bubble. You've got a lot of people that have not responded. So we're trying to figure out, do they exist? Who are they? And it's possible that a lot of those people will be actually fired. And if that happened, that's okay, because that's what we're trying to do. This country has gotten bloated and fat and disgusting and incompetently run. I think we had the worst president in the history of our country. He just left office.

I think he's a disgrace. What he's done to our country by allowing millions of people to come into our country like that and all of the other things he. All right. So he goes into other stuff. One question I have is how do you fire an employee that doesn't exist? It's kind of like if a tree falls in the woods and there's no one around to hear it, did it make a sound or what is the sound of one hand clapping, which we figured out, by the

way, this is the sound. But anyway, if an employee doesn't exist, how do you fire them? And of course, I think back to office space and fixing the glitch and the situation kind of taking care of itself. But understand that this is all completely whacked. HR by email running a government with give me five bullet points about what you're up to. Not a good way to run the country.

And by the way, the reason many of the employees haven't responded is because Trump's own nominees have said don't respond. Think about that for a moment. You have Trump saying and Elon Musk saying if they don't respond, they're fired or semi fired as Trump put it. On the other hand, you've got FBI Director Kash Patel, Trump's own nominee, saying do not respond. We have our own system of performance reviews and evaluation. It's crazy. It's it's as bad and unorganized as it sounds. Donald Trump also went back to this idea that there might be 10 million people. Who would buy a five million dollar Trump gold card to get a path to citizenship in the United States. Put aside for a moment whether this is a good idea.

Put aside for a moment whether this is the way to do immigration. Think of the numbers Trump's giving us and then we'll evaluate. Howard was using a different number, but that's five trillion dollars. If we sell 10 million, which is possible, 10 million highly productive people coming in or people that we're going to make productive, they'll be young, but they're talented, like a talented athlete. That's 50 trillion dollars. That means our debt is totally paid off.

So let's talk about that, because Donald Trump is saying, I believe there might be 10 million people willing to pay $5 million to become citizens of the United States. It's ridiculous. So here's, here's the numbers. Roughly the existing EB five investor visa program requires an investment between 800,000 and a million dollars in a job creating enterprise. That's way cheaper than five million. That's capped at 10,000 visas per year. And those 10,000 visas aren't even spoken for. So you've got a way cheaper program. That's a fraction of the cost. And you don't even have 10,000 people going for that. Now, even with looking at something like the UK's tier one investor visa that required a two million pound investment, they only did a few hundred of those. Portugal, which had maybe the most well-known what's called golden visa program that at one point required only about a half a million euro investment, only had a few thousand people go for it. Thousand. And Trump's talking about 10 million,

even the longest running citizenship by investment program, which is St. Kitts and Nevis or Nevis. That only did about 16000 passports over 35 years. Now, you could say, well, David, hold on a second. Way more people want to become citizens of the US than want a passport from St. Kitts. Fine. But think about the number of wealthy individuals relocate relocating globally. It's in the tens of thousands. In 2023, a record 120,000 millionaires migrated to a new country.

That's from all countries to all countries, total globally. OK, if you exclude wealthy Americans who already have American citizenship, there are probably five million people on the planet who would be able to pay five million bucks for a passport for a bunch of those people. Their net worth is five million. So is someone who all the money they have, including real estate, including everything, is five million. Are they going to spend five?

They're going to spend all their money to come to the US and be left with nothing. It doesn't make any sense. And so if you say, well, if you're going to pay 5 million, you probably need to have more than 10 million net worth. There might only be one or 2 million people globally with that amount of money. There is no way in hell you get 10 million people to pay you 5 million bucks to move to the U US. So like with everything that Trump touches, it's not even potentially theoretically plausible, never mind likely. But people are hearing it. They're going, we'll pay off our debt. We'll pay off our debt with rich foreigners paying five million bucks to get to get an American passport. Not going to happen. And then finally, Donald Trump asked, can you guarantee that Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security

won't be touched? Trump's answer is not exactly a profile in for them. I think we should get it back. Mr. President, the spending bill that passed last night aims to cut two trillion dollars. Can you guarantee that Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security will not be touched? Yeah, I mean, I have said it so many times. You shouldn't be asking me that question. OK, this will.

But he won't answer. Not be read my lips. It won't be read my lips anymore. We're not going to touch it. Now we are going to look for fraud. You're OK with that. Like people that shouldn't be on people that are illegal aliens. So this is the way that they're doing. This is the way they're going to create a pretext. No, we're not going to touch benefits, but we are going to go after fraud. We still haven't been

able to prove even exists. And it's all a pretext to cut. And even the house GOP bill that they passed two days ago, one, one, two days ago, even that isn't plausible unless you take at least a little bit and we called it a scalpel rather than a hatchet to these programs. So not a profile in courage after the break. Why was Elon Musk at the cabinet meeting? I don't know the answer. Maybe they can tell us. We are pushing to three million YouTube subscribers. We surpassed two point nine million yesterday. We are 90 something thousand subscribers away. Folks, let's do it. Let's get it over with this weekend and move on to greener pastures called four million three million YouTube subscribers. Help us get there. We'll take a quick break. Then we'll try to figure out what Elon was doing at this cabinet meeting. Pu'er tea is naturally fermented, delivering probiotics that can support gut health and digestion. It's sourced from 250-year-old tea trees, which means it's as nutrient-dense as tea can get.

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Go to peaklife.com slash pac-man for 20% off. That's P-I-Q-U-E life.com slash pac-man for 20% off. You can find the link in the podcast notes. of the boxers that are too loose or the briefs that are too tight. Sheath is for you. Sheath underwear is designed with two special pouches in the front, keeps everything separate in its own compartment with extra confidence that you will feel throughout the day, keeping things separate and comfortable, no more sticking and chafing. I was skeptical about the dual pouch. I admit it, but it is game changing. Everything stays where it is supposed to be. separate and comfortable, no more sticking and chafing. I was skeptical about the dual pouch. I admit it, but it is game changing. Everything stays where it is supposed to be extra useful when working out at the gym. And even if you don't want to use the pouches, you don't have to, it is still the most comfortable pair of underwear I have ever owned. It will blow your mind how soft

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I really appreciate you. And I invite you to join these good folks by signing up at join Pacman dot com. We do an extra show every day for our subscribers. If that sounds interesting, if you like this show, I think you would like the extra show. Check it out. Read all about it. And I will see you on today's bonus show. Elon Musk took over the first cabinet meeting of the Trump administration. Why was Elon Musk there? Why was he dressed like a little kid? Why was he giggling like a schoolgirl? Why was he saying things that don't make sense? Well,

some questions you can only hope to answer. Elon Musk. Here is video as he presides over the cabinet meeting, not really defeating allegations that he is the person truly in charge. And that is putting it charitably. Elizabeth Warren said, I don't even think that he's the co-president. I think he's just in charge. Take a listen. And what is your target number for how many workers, employees you're looking to cut total? We wish to keep everyone who is doing a job that is essential and doing that job well. But if if the job is not essential or they're not doing the job well, they obviously should not be on the public payroll. Wait a minute. OK, so Elon taking and answering questions now may be one of the most Kafka esque moments

was when Elon Musk admitted they accidentally stopped Ebola prevention, but then they noticed and they fixed it. And this is part of Elon's very honest. Listen, we're going to make some mistakes, but the point is we're going to fix the mistakes as well. We will set fires, but then we will put them out and we will say to you, tell us how great a job we are doing at putting out fires that we set to begin with. What a world. And we and I should say, also, we will make mistakes. We won't be perfect. But when we make a mistake, we'll fix it very quickly. Right. So, for example, with USAID, one of the things we accidentally canceled very briefly was Ebola, Ebola prevention. I think we all want Ebola prevention. So we restored the

Ebola prevention. It's a very interesting pronunciation also, Ebola. But I don't even want to focus on that immediately. And there was no interruption. But we do need to move quickly if we're if we're to achieve a trillion dollar deficit reduction in and financial year 2026. It requires saving four billion dollars per day, every day. And it's not going to happen. I hate to tell you it's not going to happen. You know, it's funny. We act shocked when people just do the same thing they've always done. This whole we accidentally got rid of the wrong stuff, the wrong people. It's the same thing happened that that happened when Elon bought Twitter and made it X and tweets became excretions. And he went, holy hell,

on engineering. And then all of a sudden they had no one who even knew the infrastructure of the site. And in a panic, there's a story about it actually in books that have been written about the Elon purchase of Twitter. I forget what books, but was it Ben Mesrich or was it? I don't remember. In any case, there are stories about how after firing way too many engineers, they needed to, on like a Friday night, start just rehiring people and saying, we need you to fix this like right now. It's the exact same thing that's happening with Doge. What a shock. The same stuff that happens with Elon Musk's companies is happening when he gets his hands on the government. So he seems to be in charge. Absolutely. Now, in another moment that's reminiscent of when Saudi women are asked, you love covering your entire body and face with with black fabric,

don't you? Yes. Yes, I do like it. Trump goes, anybody in my cabinet worried about Elon being here? Anybody worried about Elon's presence? And nobody says a word. And we're supposed to accept that as proof that everybody thinks this is a good idea. You could ask me or you. Go ahead, please. Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you, Mr. Musk. I just wanted to ask you that President Trump put out a truth social today saying that everybody in the cabinet was happy with you. I just wondered if you had heard otherwise and if you had heard anything about members of the cabinet who weren't happy with the way things were going. And if so, what are you doing to address any dissatisfaction? Do you want to let the cabinet speak just for a second?

Are you unhappy with him? If you are, well, throw him out of here. This is not a group of hostages. This is a group of people who can speak freely. You can imagine for a moment if Bobby stands up and says, I think this guy's presence here is completely farcical. Elon Musk should have nothing, nothing to do with these cabinet meetings. How long do you think Bobby Kennedy Jr lasts as secretary of health and human services? And so this is why it's sort of like when we hear, oh no, no, no, no. Just go and ask Saudi women in Saudi Arabia, do you like having to dress like this? And they'll tell you we love it. Go in in in Moscow and ask people, do you do you like what Putin is doing? And they'll

go, oh, yeah, I love it. Absolutely. And they go, see, look, they love Putin. They absolutely love the guy. Not exactly a group that is positioned to speak freely. And then finally, Elon Musk saying we are trying to figure out are there dead people or people that don't exist that are currently collecting government paychecks? About half of the government employees so far appear to have responded to your request for what they've been doing over the past week. Is there a timeline in place for next moves for people being fired and when can the American people expect to see results of that? Yes, well to be clear,

like the, I think that email perhaps was best interpreted as a performance review, but actually it was a pulse check review. Do you have a pulse? Do you have a pulse and two neurons? So if you have a pulse and two neurons, you can reply to an email. This is, you know, I think not a high bar, is what I'm saying. This is, should be, anyone could accomplish this? But what we are trying to get to the bottom of

is we think there are a number of people on the government payroll who are dead, which is probably why they can't respond. And they also might not be able to respond because Kash Patel told them, do not respond to this email. And because other managers, supervisors and government had said, do not respond to this email. It is as chaotic as you think. But now let's dig into the substance of what Doge is supposedly accomplishing.

It is evaporating into thin air. Just as I have been predicting the celebrated spending cuts from Donald Trump and Elon Musk's Department of Government officials efficiency aren't cuts at all. And some of the biggest ones have been quietly deleted, just very quietly, quietly deleted, never to be heard from again. So five of the most touted savings have quietly disappeared from Musk's vaunted wall of receipts, receipts that they excrete on X after mounting evidence showed there were either errors, duplicate counts or complete and total fabrication. So let me tell you what's going on. And I don't think you're going to be shocked by this. They've been claiming

we've already saved sixty five billion dollars thanks to what we've been able to find. And so this number was examined by The New York Times and by others. And it turns out it's not true. You first have the eight billion dollars in immigrations and customs enforcement that was supposedly cut. It turns out it was an eight million dollar contract. So they cut an eight million dollar contract and they said, we just saved eight billion dollars wrong. And so that one has been deleted.

It was off by a factor of a thousand. The explanation is simple. The Doge team used incorrect data from a contracting database. They should have realized this is the wrong number. Even ice's entire annual budget is an 8 billion. And so it makes the whole claim completely implausible. You then had, we cut six hundred and fifty five million times three from USAID. It's really one point nine billion. Turns out they counted the same cut three times these people. So that was not a one point nine billion dollar cut. It was six hundred and fifty five million. Another error involved, I guess we would call it multiplying by three. Now, the other problem is that the real savings appears to only be 18 million dollars because

they didn't understand the ceiling values versus actual spending. So they say it's a one point nine billion dollar cut. Turns out they counted six hundred and fifty five million three times. Turns out six hundred and fifty five million three times. Turns out six hundred and fifty five million was the ceiling price of that contract. The real amount of money that's been spent under that contract was only 18 million dollars. One point nine billion became 18 million. We then had this is like number four slash six, depending on how you count that triple cut that didn't exist. A two hundred and thirty two million dollar non-event at the Social Security

Administration. Doge said we just cut two hundred and thirty two million from Social Security. It was really a five hundred and sixty thousand dollar adjustment. This was related to an I.T. project to update gender markers. Oh, we're getting rid of gender. We're getting rid of pronouns. We're getting rid of DEI. It saved them five hundred and sixty thousand dollars. They claimed it was two hundred and thirty two million. And then there's a one point nine billion dollar treasury contract that predated Doge. That's what they say they've been able to save. But that was actually canceled before Doge was created. So it was a canceled contract. It has nothing to do with Doge. It has nothing to do with President Trump. It has nothing to do with Elon Musk. So they tried

taking credit for a cut that Biden cut. I mean, you can't even write this stuff. So here's the pattern. The cuts aren't real cuts. They've been wildly exaggerated. It's not just sloppy bookkeeping. It seems like it's a deliberate attempt to inflate savings that just don't hold up under scrutiny. And when you dig into the details, most of the reductions crumble into nothing. It's like when you take cotton candy and you put water on it and suddenly it's gone and you show it to a monkey and they go, oh, what happened? That's what it is here. You pour a little water on this stuff and it disappears just like cotton candy. Swing and a miss. Try it again. And so much more about the folly of Doge on The David Pakman Show podcast. I hope that you're subscribed on Spotify

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I F O L D dot markets slash Pacman. The link is in the podcast notes. It's great to welcome to the program today, democratic Congressman Tom Swazi representing New York's third congressional district. Uh, Congressman, it's great to have you on. You know, we were just talking with the audience and with our team about just the last two weeks with regard to Ukraine and Russia. So many of your counterparts on the other side of the aisle refusing to even acknowledge that Russia was the aggressor when asked, well, what will Russia give up in the negotiations? Things like they've given up a lot already. You know, they've lost people

in this war that they, they started. Tell me what's happening behind the scenes in terms of, do your Republican colleagues genuinely seem to be buying into the narrative that's coming down from the Oval Office? Or do they have a different view on the aggressor and what should happen there? Well, one size doesn't fit all. You know, one of the things that's that screwed us up in our country is that people say the Republicans, you know, the Democrats, but a one size fits all thing. There are some members of Congress on the Republican side that have stood up and said, Trump is wrong. It's clear that Putin is the dictator and Zelensky was democratically elected by 73% of the vote in Ukraine in an election that was certified by the commission in Europe that certifies that you have a free and fair election. So,

you know, that one's obvious to many of us, but it has to be repeated often that Putin is the dictator and Zelensky was democratically elected. Secondly, Putin and Russia invaded Ukraine. And so they're trying to play these games with, you know, that Ukraine caused the war by taking certain actions, saying they want to be in NATO and things like that. And that's what forced Russia to go kill and murder and rape and take tens of thousands of children as kidnapped abductees into Russia. I mean, it's awful. I'm going a little off topic, but I mean, the Russians literally abduct children from Ukraine because their parents are working at the power plant and they want the

parents to keep working. And to keep the parents working, they say, we've got your children. If you don't keep working, who knows what will happen to your children? I mean, it's just awful. So a lot of Republicans are coming around to recognize, or not, I don't want to say a lot, some Republicans are coming around to recognize that we cannot reward Russia or Putin for this evil action that they have taken. And to do so would send the worst possible message, not only to the Ukrainians and to Poland, but to the little neighboring countries of Lithuania and Latvia and Estonia and Moldova that are all terrified of what Putin's going to do next, because he's already sending disinformation campaigns in there.

And it would send a terrible message to to China. It would send a terrible it's sending a terrible message to our allies that we've abandoned our our historic commitment to democracy and our allies. So what do you think underlies this attitude in the sense of it has always seemed as though to a degree Donald Trump is really impressed by these authoritarians. He's impressed with the way in which they ignore public opinion and sort of social benefit. He's impressed by the way in which in China you are very quickly executed after dealing drugs as he has told the story many times at rallies. So it seems that there's sort of a personal kind of thing there.

Others believe that it's more nefarious with regard to business interests or whatever the case may be. What do you make of the underlying kind of motivation here? Yeah, I don't know what the underlying motivation is. I feel like he does not have an appreciation for history. I think he doesn't have an appreciation for, you know, what it took for our country to get to this point. And I don't think and I think, unfortunately, sadly, too many Americans don't realize what a great country this really is, that we have this wonderful democracy in this this e pluribus unum out of many one. I mean, I've just seen so many countries that people that are minority populations are just treated so terribly. And the autocrats, you know, go after religious

minorities. I mean, what the Chinese are doing to the Uyghurs, what they've done to the Tibetans, what they're doing to the Hong Kong students, what they're threatening to do to Taiwan. I mean, it's not just there, it's all over the world. So I don't think that Trump has an appreciation for our history. I think that he, you know, came of age, I'm 62 years old myself, you know, he's older than I am, obviously. But I think, you know, he really started paying attention to politics under Reagan and, you know, loves the idea of trying to be a tough guy. But Reagan was a tough guy in the context of great love and respect for democracy and freedom. Trump tries to act like he's the tough guy. I really don't think he wants to be in confrontation. He wants to try and use bluster and he'll back off whenever he gets challenged.

He's like a bully that when you're a kid, you fight back with a bully, you punch him in the face and then they don't bully you anymore. I think that he's kind of like that. And he doesn't have a, I don't think he has a great respect for our history or, you know, I was with a Republican at one point, I can't remember when it was exactly, but I said to him, you know, if we appease Putin, we'll be just like Neville Chamberlain. And the Republican, who's the chairman of a committee, and I'm not going to tell you who it is, the chairman of a committee, very powerful committee, responded to me, who's Neville Chamberlain? It's like, what? It's like, in case people don't know, Neville Chamberlain was in Britain who appeased Hitler. Yes. We have peace in our time. And in reality,

Hitler just, you know, took advantage of that settlement and then went on to Czechoslovakia and to other places all the way through Paris and into England. Congressman, you wrote a New York Times op ed a few weeks before Donald Trump took office and you talked in it about the importance of working together when possible and kind of acting in good faith, bipartisanship, et cetera. I spoke to your colleague Ro Khanna recently who had a similar approach before the inauguration, and he said that seems increasingly implausible and impossible given what we have seen during these first five weeks of this administration. Has has your view on the plausibility of that good faith bipartisanship also shifted in the last five weeks? Well, there's no question that it's very difficult, but I'm not shifting in my belief

that I believe the only way forward for our country is to move beyond this divided sense that we have. We have to figure out how to work together. So I'm choosing, for example, in the case of Ukraine to highlight Brian Fitzpatrick, who has come out very strongly in favor of Ukraine against Russia, disagreeing with the president. I'm choosing to highlight Joe Wilson, who's one of the co-chairs of the Ukrainian caucus, a Republican, who's come out very strongly in favor of Ukraine and talking about how this is legacy defining and we have to support Ukraine. I'm choosing in the case of Doge and the case of the cuts that are being proposed to highlight Republicans like a fellow problem solver. I'll talk about the problem

solvers caucus later if you want me to, but Don Bacon from Nebraska, who won as a Republican in a Harris district, who came out and said, the president's got to follow the law. The law is the law. You have to follow the law. What you're doing is not right. You have to come to Congress. A guy named Mario Diaz-Balart, who's a Republican from Florida, who came out and said, listen, I'm on the Appropriations Committee and Congress is responsible for the power of the purse, and I'm going to zealously defend it. Even a Freedom Caucus guy, Gary Palmer, an evangelical from Alabama, came out and said, you can't eliminate the Department of Education by executive order. You have to come to Congress to do that. So, you know, there are some bright lights out there that we need to, you know,

fan those flames and try and make them get stronger. It's not easy to stand up to your own party. Historically, that's the hardest thing to do in politics. John F. Kennedy wrote the book Profiles in Courage. It was after 175 years of American history, and it was about people who stood up against their party for something they thought was right. But despite it was after 175 years of American history, there were only eight people in that book. So it's not easy to stand up to your party. And we need to highlight those Republicans that are standing up to their party or to the president, certainly, and to try and encourage bipartisan common ground,

especially on those things that are basic American fundamental principles that we could share in common. When it comes to taxes, we are in an interesting situation right now where some of the elements of the 2017 tax plan passed under Trump are now up for either being extended or will expire this year. And this includes potentially the SALT cap is back on the table, qualified business interest deduction and a whole bunch of other things. On the one hand, it seems that when Republicans control the House, Senate and the White House, they're just going to get what they want as far as the taxes go. On the other hand, there's also I mean, listen, the salt cap hit people in blue states disproportionately who before were able to benefit at the federal level from the sometimes higher taxes that they paid at the state level.

And so in a way, the salt cap was a punishment to blue staters on average. Right. Absolutely. There's no question about that. When it comes to your approach, given the realism that on the one hand, Democrats don't control anything right now. On the other hand, that Trump has said we might do something on the salt cap. Is your approach going in? We can't stop everything, but we're going to push hard to get the salt cap up or we're going to try to prevent them from passing this thing at all. Like, what are you thinking? Well, right now we're counting on the Republicans that are in these Democratic areas. There's like at least 10 of them, you know, from New York and from California and some other states that have high state and local tax. People should understand

what the state and local tax deduction is. SALT is state and local tax deduction. It was the first deduction put into the federal income tax code when they first adopted the idea of a federal income tax just about over 100 years ago. And when they first proposed the idea, the governors and mayors came out and said, hey, we don't want you raising taxes at the federal level. We want to do it at the local level. You're going to screw us up if you collect them at the federal level. I said, no, don't worry. The first deduction you're going to get is a state and local tax deduction. Anything you pay to your state or local governments will be deducted from your income. So you don't have to pay tax on the

taxes you've already paid. So that was in place for a hundred years. Trump and the Republicans took it away in 2017 and capped the deduction of $10,000. So I'm from New York. I think you're from Massachusetts. There are other people from high tax states with high local state and local taxes, their property taxes, school taxes, state income taxes. They're much more than $10,000 in these places. And so it was a punishment.

In fact, they asked Trump, they said, you know, Mr. President is going to hurt your what was then his home state. This is going to hurt the people in your home state of New York. He says, ah, they didn't vote for me anyway. So he did it on purpose. So I'm counting on the Republicans that are in these tough seats that need to get this back for them to fight. And they are fighting. They're saying we will not vote for the tax bill unless you give us relief from this cap of $10,000. Now, that's illustrative of all these issues. The reason we're going to get Republicans to come to see the light is because they're going to see problems with national security, problems with the economy, and with their constituents, telling them,

we don't like these cuts. I was with a Republican last night. He says, I'm getting these crazy calls about all these people that are worried that Medicaid is going to be cut. 71 million Americans are on Medicaid because it was used through the Affordable Care Act. People who are in nursing homes are on Medicaid. So people are getting, you know, we see these veterans that are all getting fired by Doge. 5% of the workforce in America is veterans. 26% of the workforce in the federal government are veterans. So veterans are being disproportionately fired right now under Doge. The more Republicans hear from the effects from their constituents, where Medicaid is getting cut or SNAP is getting cut or Head Start's getting closed down or the local research given to your local college or university or scientific institution is being cut. The more they hear

about this stuff, the more the constituents are going to complain to their members of Congress, the more you're going to see the Republicans push back the way that they need to. Speaker 1 How long do you and your colleagues colleagues think Elon Musk will last in his current role until the conflicting egos just inevitably explode and he's done? Speaker 2 I don't know. You know, we all thought that was going to happen relatively quickly. Yeah. Seems that they're both kind of in on the joke a little bit, that they're both, you know, kind of like running into the idea of that people are counting on them to bust up because of their egos. But it seems like the like President Trump is actually taking some sort of a subordinate role to Musk in certain ways.

It's kind of weird and it's kind of the whole thing's kind of odd. And and the way that they're doing it, the doge cuts don't make any sense. I mean, I'm all for disrupting, you know, federal government's way too big and there's a lot of waste, fraud and abuse. I agree with that. But the way they're doing it, I think is going to end up costing more money to the federal government in the long run because. Yeah, although I do want to jump in with one thing.

You mentioned there's a lot of waste, fraud and abuse. I have not found a single dollar in actual fraud that they've identified so far. I mean, a lot of the stuff that Caroline Leavitt holds up, it's programs they don't like. But I think I think we want to make sure that we don't give them that. Like maybe there isn't as much fraud as they as they claim. No, no, there is a lot of fraud. There is waste, fraud and abuse in the federal government. There's no give us an example of the fraud, though. People who are ripping off applying for benefits when they're not entitled to them, contractors in the Pentagon that are overcharging or doing add ons.

The overcharging. Yeah, I think we need to find it and be specific. The people who don't deserve the benefits. I mean, I don't know. You know, the problem I have with that kind of people who don't deserve the benefits, people that are like using phony social security numbers and things like that, that type of stuff takes place. I mean, I guess I wonder, you know, so here's the thing. Any large system will have some of that. I would never deny that. Absolutely.

And also the risk of granting them that it's an epidemic is that people say, see, this is why we shouldn't have these programs to begin with. I want to make them fight to convince us that this is really happening. Like intellectually, I know it must be to some degree, but let's make them prove it, right? No, you're absolutely right about that. That's why the way they're doing this is absurd. Yeah. The idea that they said, let's lay off all these people willy nilly across all these departments. And they realized all of a sudden we're laying off people who are responsible for guarding the nuclear stockpile. Oh, my gosh, we've got to bring them back.

They try to bring them back, but they've been knocked off their government emails, so now they can't contact them. There's a bird flu taking place. There's a measles epidemic taking place in Texas, but they're firing the employees that are responsible for overseeing, fighting those different types of epidemics. You've got, they come out and they say, we're going to give you a buyout if you leave early. We're going to give you a payoff if you leave early. But if you're in the IRS, you can't take advantage of the buyoff until after the tax season. So the people don't take advantage of the tax. Then they get laid off in the middle of tax season when people are trying to get their refunds and people are trying to file their taxes. It doesn't make any sense. You should not be going after the low-wage probationary employees that have just been hired. You should

wait until people retire and then not refill those positions. People retire from the high-level salaries and then just don't refill those positions. People retire from the high level salaries, and then just don't refill those positions. And you technology and consolidation. There's a way to manage this right now. It's so chaotic. And I think that both Trump, who was not in government before other than serving as president, but was never did the nuts and bolts of government. And Musk, who's only been in the private sector and is not really, they have no respect for the complexity of this organization that provides life-saving services to people. So it's almost like they have a disdain for government.

And some of these programs are essential. This whole stuff of giving these 20-something-year-old tech guys access to people's private information is what involves me more than anything. There's people who, let's say you have somebody in your family who's got a mental health illness, and then they got a prescription drug, or somebody who's got AIDS, or somebody who's something that, you don't want these kids snooping around on people's personal data, the access to people's bank accounts. Who knows what their keystrokes that they're making,

that they're changing and what they're doing with the information that they have access to. There's a reason that people have to go through confirmation hearings or get security clearances or go through background checks because you want a high level of security that

people's personal data is going to be secure. And they're just giving it away to these young kids. Yeah, no, they both seem temperamentally unsuited to the tasks at hand. We have been speaking with Democratic Congressman Tom Swasey from New York. Thank you so much for talking to us today. Really appreciate your time. Thank you, David. talking to us today. Really appreciate your time. Thank you, David. Really appreciate you. Keep up the good work. Data brokers are continually collecting extensive details about your online behavior, address,

phone number, email, financial information, even political views. This sensitive information about you can easily be found on public data search sites by anybody. Could be an ex, could be an employer. Thank you, David. We'll be right back. The David Pakman Show David Pakman dot com slash Pakman for a huge 60% discount. The link is in the podcast notes. The David Pakman shows finances have gotten hacked before. I've talked about it on the show. The hacker stole a bunch of money. It was not a good feeling. I worry a lot less now that I use aura. Our sponsor aura gives me peace of mind by providing some critical layers of security. They continuously monitor the dark web and let me know if information has been exposed, logins, social security numbers, et cetera. They tell me quickly if anybody tries to use that information to access credit or bank accounts and Dora also

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passwords are already on the dark web. That's a U R a.com slash Pacman to try or a free for two weeks. The link is in the podcast notes. All right, let's keep digging into taxes. Donald Trump's new tax plan has now been exposed. It's been looked at and it is a working class destroyer. Remember that the house of representatives narrowly passed this budget resolution setting the stage for what could be one of the most consequential fiscal battles in recent memory. And what's at the heart of this plan is a $4.5 trillion tax cut combined with $ trillion dollars in federal spending reductions over the next decade.

And of course, Republicans are saying this is a victory. It's a victory for Trump. It's a victory for the America first agenda. If you actually look at the plan, which is what everybody should do and everybody should understand it, evaluate your support or opposition to the plan based on what it says. If you take a closer look, you find a plan that big surprise disproportionately benefits the wealthy and it leaves the middle class to really bear the brunt of the fallout because the cuts are coming from programs that help the lower and middle class Medicaid cuts, which we now know must be part of it if they will achieve the 880 billion

reduction there. Food stamps. I'm sorry. A million reduction. Food stamp cuts, education funding cuts. And so Republicans are saying, we got it past the House. This is a victory. It's a victory for Trump.

When you really look closely, you find that the Medicaid cuts might force states to scale back coverage, which means fewer people will have insurance cuts to food assistance programs like food stamps could push families to food insecurity, something that a country as wealthy as the United States just should not have a single person with food insecurity. It's not a money issue. It's a political will issue. And then with education funding on the chopping block, you could find public schools facing

even more challenges which will hurt your child's education, which will damage their chances at ultimately finding sustainable employment at the end of the rainbow that increasingly doesn't exist. And now Republicans are pretending that this is just no big deal. MAGA Mike Johnson, Speaker of the House, says that the budget resolution doesn't even mention Medicaid, but the numbers are the numbers. And to get that 880 billion, it is billion. Before I was confused to get the 880 billion dollars in health related savings, Medicaid and or other health programs are inevitably going to have to be cut now hilariously or tragically, depending on your point of view. This is not going to do much when it comes to dealing with

the deficit that Trump has been claiming they're going to deal with, because even if you grant them that they will be able to accomplish the full spending cut that they've proposed, the budget resolution would add nearly three trillion dollars to the national debt over the next decade because of the way that the program is structured with the tax cuts that are going to reduce revenue significantly. So if you are a fiscal conservative, if you still exist, you know, Tom Massey claims to be the only real fiscal conservative left in the House of Representatives. He actually was the one Republican to vote against this. He called it out and he said, you can't cut taxes without

cutting spending at least as much. This program doesn't do that. And this program is going to add to the national debt to which, of course, we say, of course it is. That's what Trump did in his first term. And it's certainly what he plans to do in his second term. Tariffs, tax cuts for the wealthy, tax cuts for corporations. Everything that he's doing is going to add to the deficit and increase the national debt at an even faster rate. There's one guy on the Republican side willing to call it out right now. His name's Tom Massey.

Where will this go? We have to see what's going to come out of the Senate. We have to see whether Senate Republicans and Senate Democrats I'm sorry, whether Senate Republicans and House Republicans, Democrats have a very whether Senate Republicans and Senate Democrats. I'm sorry, whether Senate Republicans and House Republicans, Democrats have a very small role to play here other than calling out what this is for what it is. And I hope that they do that. We will see what they ultimately agree upon. But it is looking shockingly or not, depending on your perspective, as another middle class killer. Donald Trump just became the most unpopular president in 70 years.

And it matters. Now, I know many people like to say these people don't care about polls. They'll do whatever they want. It doesn't matter. I disagree. Let me explain. Donald Trump loves to talk about ratings, his TV ratings, his rally crowd sizes, his record breaking presidency, his polling, his other size elements. But here is one record that he is not going to be bragging about, which is that he is now the most unpopular president in 70 years at this point in his term, mid to late February of the first year of the term. Gallup puts Trump's approval at 45 percent. That is 15 points lower than the historical average for February of year one, dating all the way back to 1953. Even Bill Clinton, who had the previous record for the

lowest mid-February approval, was still at 51 percent. JFK was at 72 percent at this point in his term. Even Jimmy Carter, who is widely considered a weak incumbent, was at 71 percent approval in mid to late February of year one. And if you think, oh, well, the Gallup poll must just be an outlier, you are wrong. The Washington Post Ipsos poll finds also that Trump is at 45 percent. Now, of course, Trump will call this fake news because that's what he does. But there is a problem for Republicans here. Even if Trump doesn't care about his terrible approval rating, which we know he does, right, but he'll convince himself and others. You can't believe the data. The number could have massive consequences for the 2026 midterms, which is what is now in

focus. Historically, you would expect Republicans not to do well in November of 26. That's tends to be what happens when a party takes the White House. They then don't do well in the next midterm. Trump's entire political movement is based on controlling the narrative. And we've already seen what he does when the facts don't go his way. He attacks, he intimidates, and he tries to threaten people. Look at what happened to pollster and sells her one of the most respected pollsters in the country. She got it wrong when it came to Iowa in 2024. And Trump has already targeted her for daring to put out a report that he didn't like. She was wrong, no doubt about it. But now he is targeting her. If Trump and his allies get their way, polling firms are going to stop taking surveys that he didn't like. She was wrong, no doubt about it. But now he is targeting her.

If Trump and his allies get their way, polling firms are going to stop taking surveys that involve polling people about Republican activities. Media outlets that are already afraid of lawsuits and harassment and physical threats from MAGA extremists are going to self-censor. And that's what they want. The result will be that Americans will only see manufactured polls designed to boost Trump and the Republican Party. The real data will be buried, discredited or never even generated. And this is not just polling, because for years people have warned about billionaire control of the media. This is where we are right now. Oligarchs own almost every major legacy corporate media outlet and they are gobbling up social media. It's not paranoia. It's happening in real time.

Look at mainstream coverage of Trump and the same washing we've seen of the Republican Party networks shying away from calling him an authoritarian, downplaying the Republican election sabotage, and even newspapers that were once reliably critical of Trump now platform his enablers in the name of balance. And when you look on social media, you see the left wing content punished, independent news outlets punished and deprioritized like us. And meanwhile, the right wing content is being artificially boosted. You really think Tucker's interviews get 500 million views on X? Of course not. It's that they're forced into people's feeds. And if the video plays for two seconds as you scroll by, it's counted as a view. This is what they're doing. We know that it is. And so the

solution is the opposition needs to build its own information network. This is why we're trying to grow the audio podcast on Spotify and Apple. This is why we're pushing to three million subscribers. This is why we're working with all of our cohort, Brian Tyler Cohen and Midas Touch and smaller creators and trying to really build this thing because we need the independent financial backing for independent journalism and commentary. And I am cautiously optimistic that we're starting to see interest in that. But here's the brutal truth. Few Americans are willing to pay for alternatives to the corporate stuff. Americans got used to free journalism and all these channels that just show up with my cable subscription. Even if you don't know,

you're sending Fox News three bucks a month through that cable subscription. And so what we're up against is a lot of people when I say, hey, what about seven bucks a month or 350 a month? If you use one of the coupon codes, a lot of people say, I'm just not used to paying. I'll just watch it on YouTube for free without the financial backing. Independent media will be doomed. And MAGA loves to brag about how they are the ones that are really putting out the quality stuff and they love to whine about censorship. But who's really being silenced? It's not them. It's their critics. We've seen media figures fired or sidelined for being too critical of Trump. And this is what an authoritarian movement does. It doesn't need official state censorship. It just makes speaking the truth dangerous. And so that's the direction

we are heading in here. We are going to continue pushing with everybody that's doing what we do. And if they are determined to silence, then we are going to be very loud about it. In the meantime, the polling data could be very bad news for Republicans in November of twenty twenty six. And here's the big caveat. If Democrats know how to take advantage of it, I'm not convinced they do, but I will keep pushing them in every single interview we do. We've got another couple next week that I think will be interesting. We've got a great bonus show for you today. If you don't currently get the bonus show, why not sign up at join pacman.com. Also many free ways to support our work.

Make sure you subscribe to the podcast on Spotify and Apple podcasts. Subscribe free on YouTube, Thank you. We'll see you next time. Death dealers on their way to prison. I've talked to people who survived mass shootings. Crazy funny ones. I talked to a guy with a goose laugh. Somebody who dresses up as a pirate on the weekends. I never know what's going to happen. It's a great show. Subscribe today. Beautiful Anonymous.