The David Pakman Show - 4/1/24: MAGA Mike pushing Project 2025, broke Trump is firing staff

Episode Date: April 1, 2024

-- On the Show: -- Harry Segal, clinical psychologist and Senior Lecturer in the Psychology Department at Cornell University and the Department of Psychiatry at Cornell Weill Medical School, joins David to compare and contrast what is being labeled "cognitive decline" with regard to both Donald Trump and President Joe Biden -- Republican Speaker of the House Mike Johnson admits that he will be pushing the dangerous authoritarian Project 2025 if Donald Trump does become president again and retakes the Oval Office -- Republicans reveal their slate of "impeachment managers" to prosecute the absurd and destined-to-fail impeachment of Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas -- Republican Congressman James Comer is absolutely furious that it's taking so long to impeach President Joe Biden -- An increasingly broke Donald Trump is firing staffers and closing election offices, while President Joe Biden continues to open them -- The Daily Wire's Ben Shapiro twists himself into a logic pretzel when asked about the firing of Candace Owens during an appearance with cultural critic and arbiter of ideas Dave Rubin -- Failed former President Donald Trump threatens Americans in an unhinged interview after attending the wake of NYPD officer Jonathan Diller, and a Fox Host calls Trump's comments "somber" -- Donald Trump shares a video violently portraying President Joe Biden being bound and gagged, reminding everyone why Trump's "bloodbath" comments were not to be taken lightly -- Voicemail caller asks whether Donald Trump's children or other MAGA figures, will try to seize power when Trump dies -- On the Bonus Show: Right-wingers upset over Transgender Day of Visibility, Mike Johnson's speakership in jeopardy, and much more... 🩺 Wild Health: Get 20% OFF your membership at https://wildhealth.com/pakman 🥦 Lumen: Get $50 OFF with code PAKMAN at https://go.lumen.me/pakman 🧻 Reel Paper: Code PAKMAN for 30% OFF + free shipping at https://reelpaper.com/pakman 👂 MDHearing: Use code PAKMAN to get a pair for just $297 at https://shopmdhearing.com/ 💻 Get Private Internet Access for 83% OFF + 4 months free at https://www.piavpn.com/David -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

Speaker 1 We're starting today with MAGA Mike Johnson, the Republican speaker of the House, and the reminder that when extremists tell us we're going to do extreme things, we should believe them. It's dangerous and irresponsible to assume the extremists promising and extreme things can just be ignored because they're not really going to do them. What am I talking about? Project 2025. There's about three layers to this story. And I don't know, just for kicks, let's go through the layers step by step the way that I like to do. There is the content of Project 2025, which is, again, this Heritage Foundation package of ideas meant to really weaponize the

bureaucracies of the United States against the left. And for authoritarian purposes, Trump is all in on it. And now Maga Mike is telling us he's on all in on it as well. The second part of it is the danger, as I suggest, of those who say, oh, we don't have to worry about this. And part three, of course, is that Maga Mike may be long gone from Speaker of the House by the time Trump is inaugurated in January, if indeed he will be. And we'll talk about that in a moment. So here is Maga Mike calling into the Charlie Kirk show on Real America's Voice. And he's telling us in those first hundred days of Trump, we are going to make some aggressive

radical changes. We know, Mike, we've seen the list, but here he is saying, I think we can have a larger sizable majority, not twenty five or 30 seats anymore because the gerrymandering and redistricting, but we can have a bigger majority. You get that. You get the Senate. We're going to make big radical changes. I've talked to President Trump and all my colleagues about what that first hundred days looks like. And you will see proof right out of the gates.

I mean, aggressive changes to the regulatory state, the deep state, the bureaucracy that's turned on the people and weaponized against them to the budgeting and spending process. And I think we can have. So there it is. He's admitting it. Now, what is he referring to? This is all coded language or not so coded language. We know the language by now from the 2022 Heritage Foundation Project 2025 framework with over 100 partners that have signed on to this in addition to the Heritage Foundation. And it wants to do a bunch of things, all of which should scare the whatever out of us. They want to recruit tens of thousands of it's not just conservatives. If you ask them, they might say, well, we want conservatives, conservatism.

What they want is lapdog MAGA radicals to replace regular old civil workers and take. I've explained before when a new president comes in, they bring their secretary of state. They bring their secretary of education. OK, but at the lower levels, at so many of these departments, these are career bureaucrats. They may have private political lives where they vote, but their roles are not explicitly nor implicitly political. They mostly take their job and their the apolitical nature very seriously. I've known folks who work in embassies, for example. Yeah, they have a preference politically in many cases, but they take very seriously that these are not political roles in which they are serving.

OK, the president picks the ambassador, but I am just a of a cog in the system or whatever the case may be. They want to replace these career bureaucrats who are apolitical with radical MAGA extremists who will restructure all of these departments in the image of MAGA. They want to restructure the executive branch as well under what they call unitary executive theory, which basically means give the president way more power. If we learned anything under Trump, it's maybe these right wingers are right that the president shouldn't have that much power.

When we look at what Trump did, they will slash DOJ funding. They want to dismantle the FBI. They want to gut environmental regulations to favor fossil fuel production, which we should be doing away with. They want to get rid of endless departments depending on which day you ask them. Education definitely goes. Commerce, I think, definitely goes. The IRS, what do they want to do?

Do with it. They want to invoke the Insurrection Act for domestic military deployment for law enforcement purposes. Remember, you can't use the military for domestic law enforcement unless unless you invoke the Insurrection Act. We've talked about that. They will blatantly direct the DOJ to target their political adversaries. And of course, in general, this is a major move to autocracy. So three layers

what Maga Mike is talking about is horrible. Number two, when people hear this and they go, we don't have to worry about that. You know, I'm going to call it down the middle. I think even if Trump wins, there will be an election in twenty twenty eight. It may be under duress. It may be in circumstances that are very ugly and dangerous. But I do think there is going to be an election in 2028, even if Trump wins and does terrible things. But I do believe that we have to understand when they say, hey, we're radical extremists. We have a list of radical extremist things we plan to do, and it is funded and organized by

the Heritage Foundation. We've got to take it seriously. And then lastly, Maga Mike says, you know, in the first in our first hundred days with Trump as president, there are already many Republicans starting to turn on Maga Mike Johnson, including Marjorie Taylor Greene. Maga Mike Johnson might not even make it to January, never mind beyond if Trump were to get reelected. So let's take them at their word for what they're trying to do. Speaking of MAGA lunatics who are disgustingly serving as the lapdogs of insanity, we've now learned who will be the impeachment managers for Republicans prosecuting an impeachment against the secretary of Homeland Security,

Alejandro Mayorkas. Now, you might be wondering what on earth am I talking about? Because you missed the story a couple of months ago when they voted to impeach Mayorkas. They are doing it. They being some Republicans believe that what the Biden administration, quote, is doing at the border is so egregious that it is deserving of the impeachment of the secretary of Homeland Security. Now I'll remind you, this is dead on arrival. Democrats who control the Senate are not going to convict, convict this guy. Undocumented immigrants to some degree come into the U.S. under every president. The idea that everything under Trump was totally beautiful.

And then Biden comes in and now it's a high crime and misdemeanor. What's going on? It's laughable. OK, but Republicans now say April 10th is the date on which we will send the impeachment articles over to the Senate to get organized for this trial. And importantly, take a look at this list. These will be the impeachment managers. It's sort of like a choose your fighter. As our as our friend Aaron Ruppar likes to say,

the following individuals will be managing the impeachment. It will. These are all Republican members of Congress. Michael McCaul, Clay Higgins, Michael Guest, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Harriet Hageman, Mark Greene, Andy Biggs, Ben Klein, Andrew Garbarino, August Flueger and Laurel Lee. I'll admit some of these folks I'm not even familiar with, but the ones who who I am familiar with McCall Higgins, Greene, Hageman and Biggs are weaponized mega people, just horrible, horrible people. Again, you should be furious because this is your taxpayer money. This is this is you. We are funding the salaries of these people, keeping the lights on in the buildings in

which this will all be done. And forget about whether it's worthwhile. Go the next step. It is the way, at least when it came to the Trump impeachments, there was evidence supporting the impeachments and the possibility that some Republicans are actually going to say, hey, you know, we do need to take this seriously. And some of them did. In this case, we have no evidence supporting impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors, and we have no chance that this is going anywhere in the United States Senate. So

you're going to have to decide. And when I say you, I mean the voters. This is Democratic voters, independent voters, Republican voters. Where does this all weigh in in terms of who you plan to vote for in November and the competing visions that we've been outlining, certainly on policy between Trump and Biden? The competing visions are in stark contrast, certainly in terms of values between Trump and Biden. We have a stark contrast. And now in terms of the hangers on and the clingers that they have with them, the stage five clingers, there is a big difference in terms of the sorts of people that are really trying to get work done and get policy done and achieve something to help the American people. And, you know, impeachment managers for an impeachment destined to go nowhere, being

carried out with no reason, sanity or logic whatsoever. So you're going to get a chance to decide in November. We'll have plenty more time to talk about it. Of course, we'll take a very quick break. We're going to hear from a sponsor or two, if you can imagine, unless you're a member, in which case you're on the commercial free feed and the show continues. We'll be back in a moment. Everybody is unique and it seems that our health care should be as well.

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helping me understand the results and the improvements I can make. My audience gets 20 percent off the cost of membership. the David Pakman Show David Pakman dot com. One of our sponsors today is Lumen. Lumen is the world's first handheld metabolic coach. The info is in the center of everything your body does, optimizing metabolic health can improve everything from sleep, immune system, energy, blood, glucose, your weight. The list goes on. Lumen gives you real time feedback so you can make adjustments to your lifestyle based

on the context of your breath measurement, whether it's first thing in the morning, before or after meals and workouts. It's super easy to use. The David Pakman Show is funded by our members and by our members. I really mean you people in the audience, people who like the show, people who want to support the work that we're doing, understanding the particularly critical and complex time in which we find ourselves. So I invite you come on and join the ranks of membership at join Pacman dot com and you can use the coupon code save democracy 24 to save bigly off of the cost of a membership. And remember that all three of my children's books on critical thinking, the scientific method and the importance of voting, all three books available at David Pakman dot com slash book. Republican Congressman James Comer is furious, just irate that it is taking so long to impeach

Joe Biden because, of course, they have no evidence for impeaching Joe Biden. This will be the end for today's show about the impeachments of Democrats who have done nothing worthy of impeachment category. James Comer, remember, has already admitted in fundraising emails they're not going to impeach him. Just remember, as you listen to him here. But here is Comer expressing frustration to Eric Bolling, a very pale looking Eric Bolling. The white balance is very much off on Newsmax.

Some kind of technical issue. It must be Eric Bolling on the receiving end of frustration from James Comer. We are not moving forward here quickly enough. I wish that it wouldn't take this long. Take a listen. Speaker 4 in the mainstream media and every every second. But we're doing everything right. It's taking a lot longer than I wish it could. But I think we're at the point now where Joe Biden's got some serious legal issues himself. We you know what? By the way, every time I hear we're doing everything right, I did everything right and they indicted me. Yeah. Whenever so

he wishes they could do it more quickly. Finding evidence or proof that there was even wrongdoing. Remember the layers here, folks. It's not just they haven't found proof of Biden's criminality. They haven't found proof of criminality. I mean, it's pathetic to say this when we think about our taxpayers that pay a pair of dollars being flushed down the toilet 10 to 15 times with, you know, high flow valves and the whole thing plumbing. One of the most frustrating parts is there isn't even evidence of crimes. Forget about Biden crimes. And Comer is saying, I, I really wish we could get this done more quickly.

But the most important takeaway is this. He is now gaslighting because in his fundraising emails, we looked at the email last week. He has already admitted we're not impeaching Joe Biden. The reason he gives isn't we have no evidence. That's the truth. The truth would be we have no evidence. The reason Comer gives in fundraising emails for why they're not really going to impeach Biden is that it's a foregone conclusion that the democratically controlled U.S. Senate is not going to impeach Biden is that it's a foregone conclusion that the democratically controlled U.S. Senate is not going to convict them. And he's right. That is absolutely true. The reason that the democratically controlled Senate isn't going to convict Joe Biden on

impeachment is there's no evidence that he did anything wrong. But Comer has already conceded we're going to make some criminal referrals if we can come up with something. But there is not going to be an impeachment. He's telling his donors that and he's saying since there won't be an impeachment, but we're going to do criminal referrals, you need to keep us in power. So chip in. The new thing is chip in. Everybody's chipping in. Now, Trump wants five bucks.

Comer wants five bucks. You can chip in to, you know, whatever the hell you want to do. But on Newsmax, he says something else, which is, well, you know, I wish it could go more quickly and so on and so forth. Now, I want to mention one other thing here. There is a bonus clip from this interview with regard to subpoenaing Joe Biden. I love this because it's a fair question. Are you going to subpoena Joe Biden?

And he says that they're looking into it. They're looking into it very strongly. Are you really? I don't think it's going to happen, Jamie. So the the way to do this is offer them the opportunity first and then the subpoena later. Does that mean they'll if he doesn't, Biden doesn't take you up on your offer to speak, to share his thoughts that you will eventually subpoena the president? Well, the subpoena in the president of the United States is pretty difficult. We've looked into that. That option is certainly on

the table. It's a lot more attainable with his son. But listen, I doubt we can get Joe to show up, but I think we're going to be able to get Hunter to show up, which, of course, he already did. To his credit, at least he's not gaslighting his viewers on this and teasing them with the idea that any day now Joe Biden is going to be forced to show up and answer questions about the absolute lack of evidence that he committed any crime whatsoever. So as I've said before, fools and their respective monies are soon parted. If you at this point are so disconnected from reality, so disoriented that you believe James Comer when he says, hey, chip in so we can hold

Joe Biden accountable and you give him money. You deserve to be scammed. I mean, we the government's not coming to save you. As Republicans have said, we're not going to be a nanny state if at this point you're ignorant or clueless enough to be tricked into giving money to this guy so he can persecute Joe Biden in whatever way he's telling you he's going to do it. You deserve to lose your money. I'm so sorry. Is it lacking empathy? Is it lacking sympathy? Maybe it is, but it is what it is. And nearly broke. Donald Trump is firing staff

and closing election offices. Now, in the middle of an election. Yes. And on the other side, a Joe Biden campaign that is raising gobs of money is opening offices and preparing to execute this ambush ground game that I went over with you on either the Thursday or the Friday show last week. So here's what's going on. Axios reports Trump's RNC struggles in swing states as Biden's team grows. And indeed, it's a short article. I encourage you to check it out. The article explains how Donald Trump's campaign is trying to win an election, I guess, by just relying on external financial support. We're going to get money from the RNC.

We're going to get money from I don't even know who because its own budget is severely limited by the fundraising problems that they are having. And part of what's going on here is that Trump isn't doing much campaigning. He's got the legal issues going on. He's focused on hush money and attacking judges, daughters and playing golf and winning tournaments at his own golf courses and whatever else the case may be. And there is a real and serious problem here. As the as the article goes on to say, less than eight months before the election, significant

parts of the RNC's get out the vote strategy in states likely to decide the election are playing catch up after Trump's team ousted. That means laid off, fired 60 staffers in its recent takeover. About a third of those ousted staffers were state directors and regional policy directors, jobs that are key to recruiting, trading and mobilizing volunteers. They've been in limbo for two weeks telling them they were laid off but could reapply. Some have reapplied, have been asked to participate in virtual interviews with under a day's notice. One RNC staffer on the payroll through the end of the month month was kicked out of their office by a Trump campaign aide who also locked the staffer out of the data server.

It's all chaos. It's all chaos. So they're closing offices. They're firing staffers. Part of it is lack of money. Part of it is they need complete and total loyalty that we talked on the bonus show last week about a new sort of litmus test that is being applied to incoming RNC applicants, which is do you believe that the election was stolen from Trump in 2020? And the report is that if you say I'm a Republican, I support Trump, but I don't think 2020 was stolen.

Apparently that means they don't hire you, which they have not denied to this point and is pretty wild. So on the Trump side, this is not where you want to be in April in an election year. On the other hand, and I know low approval rating, not everybody's happy with Joe Biden. I know what's going on. But on the Biden side, you're seeing a proactive campaign effort. You are seeing swing state activity, voter mobilization, explosive fundraising, where at last count, Biden reportedly has double or slightly more than double the money that Trump has to spend. Campaign finance is broken. Right. Normal

disclaimer, campaign finance is broken. But if you're raising twice as much money as your opponent, it's certainly a useful proxy to measure enthusiasm, at least to some degree. And I know that it's so boring and so it's the opposite of titillating. But ground game and door knocking and voter activation, engagement of this kind, the election could hinge on this or any number of other factors if it's expected to be close. And there's one other aspect to the story that I think is important to mention. Corporate media is not really acknowledging the disparity between the Trump campaign and the Biden campaign right now. Yes, they occasionally mentioned the fundraising numbers. They reported on Biden's fundraising right after the State of the Union address. They will sometimes talk about cash on hand. But if you zoom out and you see not only Biden

crushing Trump in fundraising, which, by the way, when when they report on polling, when they report on polling, they should also mention the fundraising numbers paint a very different story. And you don't usually donate to a candidate you have no enthusiasm in seeing when or voting for. And so the fundraising numbers really should be reported in that context. But there's a disparity here in the ground game. There's a disparity in that one side is hiring and one side is firing. One side is opening offices and the other side is closing offices. So hopefully corporate media will start telling the story at some point. We will certainly be telling it. And none of it is an excuse to rest on our laurels. All of it is just a reminder, hey, there's an opportunity here to keep Trump out.

And that's what we're trying to do. Ben Shapiro twisted himself into a logic pretzel the other day when he was interviewed by cultural critic and arbiter of ideas, Dave Rubin, who apparently still is doing his thing. He has a YouTube channel, his content. I never come across it anywhere anymore. But apparently Dave Rubin is still doing it. Ben Shapiro's Daily Wire recently parted ways with Candace Owens. It wasn't clear whether it was a resignation, a forced resignation or a firing.

The understood reason for it is that Candace Owens has been saying things about the Israeli Hamas conflict that are not in line with most of what you hear at The Daily Wire. Ben Shapiro has made clear even though he's a founder, he is not involved in hiring and firing, but here he is not talking about it and then talking about it with Dave Rubin. And he says something super interesting. You've got to pay close attention to the vocabulary and exactly what he's saying. See if you can pick it up here. All right, so let's do the elephant in the room for just a moment because I saw you this week on Piers Morgan.

He asked you repeatedly about candace uh you repeatedly basically said i won't talk about that i don't want to talk about that here too yeah and that's fine and you know it's interesting because we all sort of came up together to different extents and we've all done a million things together and public events and networks and all those things it seems to me that at this moment she's now a free agent she happened to end up on locals which i created and we they were a, not a publisher that you guys are. Can you at least talk to just sort of where it's at now? She's not with you. She's free. She's free to do whatever she wants to do, to be wherever she wants to be.

The difference between a publisher like The Daily Wire and a platform like Locals is obviously that a platform should have a very broad range of speech that it allows, including speech that maybe even the creators don't believe is inside what they would consider to be the Overton window. That's a very different thing than direct subsidization of particular opinions. The Daily Wire would not have a host, would not pay a host who was staunchly pro-abortion. They'd have no obligation to pay a host who is staunchly pro-abortion. And so when it comes to the hosts on The Daily Wire, obviously everyone is able to say what they want. Nobody ever comes to me and says, you can't say X. Nobody ever says that to Walsh. And no one ever said that to Candace. But the reality is that there is an Overton window at The Daily Wire. Obviously, there was a non-meeting of the minds. That's pretty much all I can say on this.

Am I the only one realizing this incredible, it in the same it's not even like a couple minutes apart. It's not even 30 seconds apart in the same sentence. He's saying at The Daily Wire, everyone can say whatever they want. You're allowed to say whatever you want. No one tells you what to say. But obviously, there are certain things where if you say you won't work here, it's sort of like you'll be allowed to say it, but then you'll be fired.

So what exactly is it now? If I am super charitable, I get what he's saying. And it's sort of similar to RT. Remember the Russian propaganda network when it was on in the United States, the RT hosts would always say. No one ever comes to me and tells me you're allowed to say this or you're not allowed to say that you can talk this way about Putin, but not that way about Putin. No.

And of course, we understand. Right. No one needs to come to you and say that because you've been selected, you've been hired. You only work there because they know you're the type of person who's going to say the things they want people saying now on The Daily Wire. It obviously went haywire with Candace Owens. And so Ben Shapiro is in this weird way saying there's full freedom of speech here. We don't tell anyone what to say, but we do fire you if you say things we don't like.

We let you say it and then we tell you that's outside of our Overton window and then you're no longer going to be able to work here. So I it would be it would be less pathetic if he was able to present it in a more honest way. And the entire framework of I'm not going to talk about it, I'm not going to talk about it. But you're you're allowed to say whatever you want. But if you say things outside of the Overton window, you're not going to work here. And there was definitely not a meeting of the minds when it came to this issue. Let's listen to just a little bit more here now with this context. And, you know, a lot of this has happened publicly. And then but to the extent that the Daily Wire is, in fact, not a publisher, that is, in fact,

not a platform, it is a publisher. That means that there is no moral obligation for the daily. And there's no free speech problem with the Daily Wire saying we don't wish to pay a particular host or that host saying I don't wish to work here anymore. Because, again, there's a parting of the ways that I'm that, you know, is not really open for discussion. So listen, he's absolutely right about that last part. And I don't know that anyone's making the case that Candace Owens had a right to say

whatever she wanted at The Daily Wire. I mean, it is not a free speech issue. He's completely correct. There are all sorts of different reasons, especially when there is a public facing element. And it's just it's way more honest to say the reality. I wouldn't have guest hosts on my show who are going to espouse certain views. Now could I imagine a situation where I say, hey, let's do something wacky, let's have a right wing host one day and they don't represent my views at all. OK, maybe.

But when I select my guest hosts, I don't tell them what to say or what not to say, what to talk about, what not to talk about. But I'm selecting people that I think are in line with what this show does. And if they came on here and they said the opposite of everything, I believe they would simply not be asked back again. That that's that's all completely fine. No one's arguing it's a free speech issue. And Ben Shapiro focusing on there's no issue here. We don't have we don't have we don't have to have pro choice people here or whatever they get. No argument whatsoever.

But this you're always everyone's always allowed to say whatever they want. It's just you won't be allowed to work here depending on what you say. You're speaking out of both sides of your mouth. If if it makes more sense to you what he's saying, then it makes sense to me. Let me know. Maybe I'm the one missing something here. The household products you buy every week impact the environment. 30 million trees are destroyed every year for toilet paper in the US alone. Our sponsor, Real, makes a sustainable toilet paper, contains no trees. It uses 100 percent bamboo reels.

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Go to real paper dot com slash Pacman and use the code Pacman for 30 percent off your first order and free shipping. That's our E.L. paper dot com slash Pacman. Use code Pacman for 30 percent off. The info is in the podcast notes from gas to groceries. We still feel inflation, even though it's down dramatically. Things are still more expensive than they were. But one thing that doesn't have to be is hearing aids. Our sponsor, MD Hearing, just cut the price in half for their neo rechargeable digital hearing aids. So you can now get a pair for only two ninety seven. That's

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in the psychology department at Cornell University, as well as the Department of Psychiatry at Cornell Weill Medical School. It's so great to have you on, you know, just to start with something. So the audience knows you're going to give us some of your impressions about President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump here. You're not coming at this from a partisan perspective or looking at the politics of the individuals. We're going to be talking about your observations of them specifically with regard to speech

patterns and other observable things through media. So can you talk a little bit about what we can glean from looking at videos of individuals and what would we be beyond our ability to glean? Absolutely. I think before we even begin with that very good question, I think we should step back just for a moment and think about American culture. We are a culture that is afraid of death. Now, maybe all human beings are, but our culture really worships the youth and ideas of immortality or people living a very long time. The other issue that American culture has is we're fascinated by mental illness, but we don't understand it very well at all, actually. What we have had in our culture is either denying mental illness

or grabbing onto diagnoses and holding onto them really hard. So for example, there are people who are on the autistic spectrum. But in these days, if a child loves math and doesn't have great social skills, he's almost or she's almost automatically labeled as being on the spectrum. You know, there are people with real attentional issues. It's hard to pay attention. It's actually something we have to work on. But now when someone has difficulty focusing on something, they automatically go to ADD. Right. Without really understanding what that means. And so now when we're thinking about Donald Trump and Joe Biden, we're really may have my own political views, but that's not what I'm here to talk about today. It's more about the observation of behavior. So let's start with in terms of the behaviors on the side of Trump, we regularly see

what some have described, including Dr. John Gartner as phonemic paraphasis. Donald Trump just get getting being unable to say certain words or getting parts of words right and seemingly getting stuck. There's increased focus on the change to Trump's speech patterns, his gait over time and a number of other different things, getting historical items wrong, like, for example, Obama's currently the president or Biden defeated Obama or Nikki Haley rather than Nancy Pelosi were in charge of Capitol security January 6th. I could go on. We have this category. We also have on the side of Joe Biden commentary that he looks frail and is walking in a particular way that signals frailty. However, we define that

that he sometimes seems to trail off or mutter and that he sometimes seems confused about what he's trying to say. I think that encapsulates 90 percent of the claims that are made about the two individuals. What do you see? Speaker 4 Well, that's a nice summary. Let's start with Trump, if we can, because. What's complicated about Trump is that this cognitive decline and you've noted some really great examples, at this point, they're intermittent. I've noticed that he seems to be better if he's interviewed with an easy interviewer in the daytime. A lot of these slippages we're seeing are during his rallies at night.

Yes. And this is something that's been observed in many people suffering from early stages of dementia, and that's called sundowning. So if you have an elderly relative in a nursing home, it's always better to go visit them in the afternoon, not in the evening. In fact, even better in late morning. So it may be that Trump is having more and more

difficulties at night. The other thing is that because it's intermittent, it's not difficult to see two or three minutes of him speaking what seems to be normally. And I think he does speak normally in a sense of not calling people's concern, like mixing up Nancy Pelosi with Nikki Haley. But what I have seen, and I think Dr. Gardner alluded to this too, is the complexity of his language has changed. So when he's speaking what appears to be coherently, it's almost like he's gumming together phrases that he repeats over and over again. Now, he's always had a tendency to do this, but if you go back, as I have, to looking at interviews in 2016, he was clearly more crisp. He was more complex than he is now. So that, you know, the decline in the complexity of language and these intermittent slippages, which I'm really afraid of because they always lead to more. So we might not be seeing it every time he speaks. But if you were to be elected a year from now,

how would he be functioning? Speaker 1 Yeah. And in fact, the the the repeat the frequency, even over the last six months, it seems to me has changed where sometimes it would take a few weeks for him to make a mistake about who's president once or twice. And then sometimes now he'll do it three or four times in a weekend of rallies. And there's a sense that it's happening more frequently. Yes, it's it's it's really frightening. And look, he is from a political standpoint, his decision not to partake in debates was very smart politically because he appeared above the fray. But I think we can surmise, right, that he was afraid of debating. Are you kidding me? Two hours on stage in the evening with someone like Chris

Christie coming after him. So, you know, we have some tests coming up. There's going to be a speech at the convention that will be at night. Yes. I don't know how he's going to get out of debating Biden, but he's going to try, is my guess. So so will we see the increase in these problems? I hope so. I have people like you and and others who are Trump watchers. But we know about this media environment. It's very hard to get through to people who support him, given where they're getting their news. So let's talk now a little bit about Joe Biden and what you observed there. Yeah, I. And I as I as we began the interview, if I were concerned about Joe Biden's

cognitive abilities, I would be I would be saying it with as much alarm as I am about Trump. I was very impressed with his State of the Union speech, his performance there. First of all, it's at night. Second of all, it was long. And then lastly, he was incredible. He was quick. His badgering the Republicans and catching Marjorie Taylor Greene was really impressive. And you really can't do that if you're suffering from major cognitive impairments. And I was so disturbed that

morning because Marjorie Marjorie Taylor Greene predicted that she said something like, I don't know what cocktail they'll put him on and, you know, how he'll read the teleprompter. He was, I think, very, very sharp. Speaker 1 So let me talk about that a little bit, because indeed, the next day, even that night, Sean next day, even that night, Sean Hannity, other right wing media outlets were really alluding to uppers. Right. I mean, that's what we're talking about here.

Some kind of stimulant. I have a passing knowledge of caffeine. Right. I mean, I'm not an expert in this, but there are certainly you know, I know people who have used amphetamines for studying help. Is there a substance that would allow you in the duration that Biden gave this speech to cover for what might be that type of decline that's being alleged? Could such an upper even give him what he had that night?

Now, David, I'm not a psychiatrist. I'm a psychologist, so I don't prescribe medication. But of course, I work with patients and I work closely with psychiatrists. Yes. I am not aware of amphetamines being used for patients with dementia. And in fact, a true amphetamine could have disastrous effects on someone elderly. The only thing I could think of would be something like Ritalin, which is a psychostimulant that increases attention. But but Biden doesn't have issues with attention. And what about like caffeine pills just to be more energized?

Could I mean, what I want to do is just be thorough here about the allegation. I see. I just don't think there's any basis for that. And what would be wrong with a cup of coffee anyway before giving an important speech? I think, you know, it's it's it's like it's like Green saying that he was on some cocktails. You know, it's it's gotten to the point now where people can just make things up and then somehow it's repeated. Listen, this is a guy who spent all night traveling to Ukraine in a war. This is someone who went to the cabinet, the defense cabinet in Israel and debated with him for two hours.

Do you think, wouldn't you think word would get out by now that he was confused or flustered or unable to put sentences together? Hearing anything like that from anyone. And yet there are people in Trump world who were part of his team that are very disturbed by the way that he thinks. And David, one thing I just want to remind everyone, one of Trump's really great talents, I don't know how he does it. You know, it's their interpersonal qualities that we can't measure as psychologists or humanists. But he has this ability, and maybe this is related to the genius of marketing, which seems to be his only real genius, is that he can just repeat things over and over again until people stop paying attention to it. I think we've forgotten about how disturbed he was before people started noticing this cognitive decline. I mean,

this is somebody who in 2016 was saying that he knew more than the generals, that he was an expert on the Bible. When I first saw that, it made me think of, you know, Muhammad Ali, who would say, I'm the greatest. He kind of was. But it made me think with Trump, it was a little bit like P.T. Barnum, you know, I'm the best. And then I started to realize he believed it. He believes the lies that he tells. So we're talking about a very narcissistic

person with quasi psychotic delusions about himself, adding to that pathological lying, which is off the scale. I mean, it surprises me that people don't talk about that anymore. But with Trump, he just wears us down until it becomes almost normal, but it's really not. So I think of this cognitive decline as being another layer of danger on top of what is already a very erratic, mentally challenged person who shouldn't be anywhere near the White House. Can you talk a little bit about some of the physical observations? And if they're simply beyond your area of expertise, that's fine. But again, with Joe Biden, the idea of the frailty, the wearing sneakers to avoid falling, et

cetera. When it comes to Trump, it's been observed that his gait has changed significantly, where it's now this wider stance. His right leg sometimes drags. He hinges forward at the waist when standing in a way that almost seems to defy gravity. It's very strange when you see it from the side. Is there anything there of substance to you? You know, I I'm really not a neurologist, but as as somebody in his late 60s and I know I have friends in their 70s,

you know, the body begins to to wear down in your 60s. I like to say that I tell my students it's being in your 60s is like driving a six year old car. You know, you have to do the maintenance and it doesn't go up the hill quite as fast as it used to. And I think with Biden, someone who is known to exercise daily and who does seem a bit frail. And and there is something he's not as crisp as he was physically or even in his pronunciation of words. Now, he's you know, he's had a stammer since he was a boy. And that's where a lot of that comes from. But I didn't see any decline in sharpness, say, in the State of the Union.

But but no, I I see the frailty when he walks. And Trump, that's been going on for a while, right? There was that strange walking down these steps, we saw him. I think that Trump's grandiosity has led him to take terrible care of himself. And although he can find doctors to lie about his fitness, you know, you can't help but see. And so I don't know if he has sciatic nerve problems. Is that why he's got that strange hip gait that he has? It doesn't appear that he's had a stroke. But again, that's not my expertise. But you see that what I began with, this notion that Americans can't think about mental

health in complex ways and we don't want to think about aging and death to Americans. Biden looks much older than Trump. But to me. Trump looks like he's faltering in a very dangerous way. Well, it's interesting you mentioned that, because I do think that if you zoom out a little, even though they're only a few years apart, Trump speaks more confidently, probably as a result of the personality characteristics you're talking about, the dyeing his hair and and tanning his face does.

I mean, it's like he does sort of look like a clown, but also compared to Biden, he sometimes does look like he's projecting more strength and a little more vigor. I think if Trump allowed his hair to go gray and didn't dye his face, there might be a different perspective on that to some degree. Yes, I think you're absolutely right. And, you know, the hair color and the tanning, whatever he puts on him, those are cues, right? They cue Americans to thinking that he's younger. Right. I mean, I don't know about you, but I always like it when Biden puts on his aviator sunglasses. It's a similar effect. Exactly. Yeah. But he's

also a more Biden is a more honest person. He's very clear about who he is. Out of curiosity, I'd like to see Biden with the dyed hair and the fake tan just to see how much more vigor he projects. Now, I think I think you're pointing out a lot of the of the circumstances that are making this have the appearance that it has. And I know that there will be people in the audience who may agree or who may disagree. But I really do appreciate your perspective on it. We've been speaking with Harry Siegel, who's a clinical psychologist and senior lecturer, both in psychology and psychiatry.

And I really appreciate your time and insights today. Thank you. Such a pleasure to be time and insights today. Thank you. Such a pleasure to be with you. With you, David. Thanks so much. We've already seen so many data breaches in the news just this year. Roku, GitHub, Fujitsu, Nissan, many others. Cyber criminals have more tools at their fingertips than ever before.

And one of the easiest, cheapest ways you can secure yourself and your family is using a VPN, an app that hides your IP address. If these companies get hacked, but you use a VPN, then your IP address will just be one less thing that the criminals know about you, which makes it harder for them to hack or to steal your identity. Our sponsor, Private Internet Access, is the only VPN I use. They don't log any of your online activity, which you can verify a number of ways, including the fact that the software is open source, super fast for streaming. You can use private Internet access on all of your devices with just a single account. Don't let the big corporations, the hackers, governments see your IP address and everything

you do online. Get private Internet access for 83 percent off, which comes out to just two or three a month, plus four extra months for free. Go to PIA VPN dot com slash David. The link is in the podcast notes. Failed former President Donald Trump gave an interview on his plane to Brian, kill me to Fox News right after going to the wake of a New York police officer killed in the line of duty.

Trump's entire presence there was, of course, one of these contrived moments that Trump is using to bolster himself above others. And you really have to see this. I watched this three times to see if I'm really seeing what what I think I'm seeing. Trump goes on an unhinged rant threatening that if he doesn't win in November, it's going to be certain destruction for the country. And then they cut to Fox and Friends host Lawrence Jones. And Lawrence Jones goes a very somber tone from President Trump. It's an it's a completely

unhinged screed in which he threatens the country. And Lawrence Jones goes very somber, very somber from from Trump here. Look at this. November 5th, that's Election Day. It's going to be November 5th. That is the most important period of time. It's the most important day in the history of our country. Our country is going bad and it's going to be changed on November 5th. And if it's not changed, we're not going to have a country anymore. Brian, it looks like the president was really balancing a somber tone. Mm hmm. A somber.

What are you talking about? A somber tone. He he's leaving the wake of a slain officer killed in the line of duty. And he threatens the country with if he doesn't win, you're not going to have a country anymore. Very somber. Very, very somber. Trump also, by the way, facing 88 felony charges and is jumping in on. I support the police and others don't. He pulls that one with Brian Kilmeade during this interview as well. Politically, he can't support the police. I think he's also making a mistake. But I think politically his his base won't let him support the police. And I support the police, I would say, at the highest level of any president by far,

maybe double or triple. Trump supports the police double or triple what anybody else does. But understand, of course, that these are also lies. Joe Biden has not defunded the police. Funding for police is not up to Joe Biden. Joe Biden has not advocated for defunding the police. No high ranking Democrat has advocated for defunding for police is not up to Joe Biden. Joe Biden has not advocated for defunding the police. No high ranking Democrat has advocated for defunding the police. I don't really know anyone other than some people on Twitter, I guess, who want to defund the police. I know lots of people

who want to reform. I know lots of people who want to improve, retrain, reallocate all of those things. And it is actually Republicans who have made it a habit of saying we need to cut funding from the FBI. They're not exactly the strongest defenders of Washington, D.C., Capitol Police after the January 6th riots. But the rumor, the idea, the talking point persists that it's Democrats that want to defund more from this sad excuse for an interview. Take a look at this is the start of it.

Mr. President, this is what we got up to today with The New York Post. Prime of his life. Yeah, this officer taken out. You placed the call earlier this week. Why was it important for you to talk to Stephanie? Well, it's really important for my campaign, Brian, to be seen as doing these things. Stephanie's incredible and they wanted me to be there and I wanted to be there. And I came in from Florida and what a family, the Diller family. And they lost a, a hero really. I mean, it's just a hero. They're devastated. The family is devastated. The police forces devastated. The whole country feels this way. And,'s happening more and more. And it's really a lack of respect for law and order. And we have to have law and order back in our country. And we're

going to because this can't happen. This was a brutal murder. Not only is he a police officer in the prime of his life cut down, this guy had 70 collars in three years. He loved doing the job. And this is a blue blood family. All right. So you kind of get it. First of all, Trump is lying that the number of that that it's happening more and more that police officers are killed. It's a tragedy when police officers are killed, particularly since most of them are just trying to do their jobs and improve their communities. Most of them.

That's the reality. And it's a tragedy when they are killed. But it's not happening more and more. You can actually go all the way back to 1996, almost 30 years. And you can see that essentially officer deaths bounce between 100 and 140 per year. It once went as low as 80, by the way, under Barack Obama. It was as high as 140 under George W. Bush, by the way. Right. Not that we're talking a relatively small range, but it's not happening more and more.

It's just not a reality that it's happening more and more. We have data on this and Trump is lying. And then lastly, with regard to this interview, here is Fox News anchor Dana Perino in response to this Trump interview playing up the growing criminality in the United States, despite the fact that crime is down and it's down in a lot of places and significantly. It's really a lack of respect for law and order. And we have to have law and order back in our country.

And we're going to because this can't happen. It's getting getting worse and worse for police because we're not taking care of them. We're not allowing them to do their job properly. Former President Trump giving voice to what so many Americans are thinking after attending the wake for NYPD officer Jonathan Diller, who was fatally shot in the line of duty. A sad reminder as surging crime and devastating

violence are transforming the nation's once vibrant cities into fearful danger zones. Welcome to a brand new hour of America's Newsroom. I'm Dana. That entire thing was a lie. That entire thing was. First of all, if I recall correctly, this is the first NYPD officer killed in the line of duty in more than two years. So the idea that this is even an epidemic in New York is a lie. New York's violent crime rate, New York's murder rate. They are lower than those of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. And they love to talk about the dangerous Democratic cities and blah, blah, blah.

They are. And it's funny how she says, as many Americans are feeling it, it's probably true. Many Americans probably are feeling that. But facts don't care about your feelings. I remember being told. And the facts, of course, are that officer deaths are basically flat dating back 30 years. Tragic when they happen, but basically flat. Violent crime is down.

The murder rate is down and New York is safer than Oklahoma City. Those are the facts, the feelings you can get from Dana Perino on Fox News. Failed former President Donald Trump sharing a violent video depicting President Joe Biden as hogtied, as the kids these days call it, tied up and gagged, bound and gagged, I guess is what we would say. A number of reports about this. And there is one most important takeaway from this, which I will get to in a moment. The Associated Press reports Trump posts video with an image of a hogtied Biden drawing a rebuke from Democrats campaign. That is absolutely true. Here is the image that was published by Trump, republished by Trump. And as you can see, it is of the the the bed. I'm forgetting the name, the the bed door of a truck.

What is the name of this thing? I don't drive trucks, folks. I'm sorry. The tailgate, the tailgate of a truck showing Biden laying down, tied up and seemingly gagged. And the most important takeaways here are the following. OK, this is this is real talk. If you don't like this, this may not be the show for you. Number one, when Trump made the bloodbath comments vaguely in the context of the auto industry and many of us said he's talking about the auto industry, that's true. Nominally, he's talking about the the auto industry. But this guy knows his audience and his audience commits violence and the pipe bomber and January 6th and the whole thing.

We have to understand that in that context, we have to understand that in that context, this is what we're talking about. This is the mega violence that he's promoting when he posts this. Oh, and it's a joke and it's someone else's or whatever. This is why the bloodbath comment wasn't taken lightly by us, because he's been indirectly and sometimes not so indirectly promoting violence dating all the way back to 2015. A lot of his politics are based on the threat of violence, sometimes subtle, sometimes not. And when he says, if I don't win in 24, we're not going to have a country anymore. That is part of the environment of potential violence. And then lastly, you know, when Trump talks about how great dictators are, he thinks Orban

is fascinating what he does and she and Erdogan and he's Putin. They're tough. Kim Jong Un. They're Trump admires that they are allowed to get away with doing the sort of stuff that's depicted on the tailgate of that truck and the sort of stuff that his followers post. He's jealous that the full blown dictators can get away with it. And he can't because at least nominally, we still have a democracy here. Scary stuff to keep in mind as we get closer to voting day.

We have a voicemail number. That number is two one nine two. David P. That's two one nine two three two eight four three seven. Here is a voicemail about what happens when Trump ultimately does pass away. This is an interesting question. I did. One question that I think is kind of interesting is when Trump, you know, eventually does die, I wonder who is going to try to grab on to like his power. Is it going to be like Don Jr. or Eric or maybe one of the mega people like Matt Gates or Marjorie Taylor Greene, someone

like that. I don't know. I thought it was kind of interesting. So here's my thought on this. Who tries to seize the power of MAGA at Trump's death will depend primarily on whether MAGA has predeceased Trump. And what I mean by that is that if Trump loses in 24 and maybe some Maga like people keep going for a couple more years, but Maga is essentially eliminated from the Republican Party

and then Trump dies some years later, I don't know that there will be any power to seize if Maga is taken out as a political force before Trump's death. On the other hand, depending on the timing, if MAGA is alive and well at the time of Trump's passing, then it very well may be a fight for it between Trump's family, more of an aristocratic sort of inheritance that they might expect and some of the strongest brown nosers of MAGA, like Marjorie Taylor Greene or Gates of others. So it remains to be seen. It's a very interesting question. We've got a great bonus show for you today. And some of the strongest brown nosers of MAGA, like Marjorie Taylor Greene or Gates of others. So it remains to be seen. It's a very interesting question.

We've got a great bonus show for you today. Remember that my newest children's book, Think Like a Voter, is available at David Pakman dot com slash book. If you already bought it, please remember to leave a review. It's a really big deal when you do. We'll see you on the bonus show. Sign up and join Pakman dot com and then I'll be back tomorrow.