The David Pakman Show - 4/1/25: Huge protests build as Elon quits, Trump flips, Karoline lies

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

-- On the Show: -- Congressman Dan Goldman (D-NY) joins David to discuss the administration's disregard for the Constitution, the failures of DOGE, the Signal fiasco, and much more -- The Hands Off protests this Saturday, April 5, seems like they will be absolutely massive, potentially the kind of activism that is currently needed -- Republican Senator Tim Sheehy (R-MT) admits during a Fox News appearance that Donald Trump's tariffs will hurt the economy and the average American -- Donald Trump flies off the handle at a ridiculous press conference alongside Kid Rock -- Not only is Elon Musk quitting DOGE, Donald Trump seems to suggest that DOGE itself will be ending -- Elon Musk gets wildly triggered during an interview with Fox News' Bret Baier -- Karoline Leavitt, Donald Trump's White House Press Secretary, flips out on reporters for asking real questions -- Karoline Leavitt, Donald Trump's White House Press Secretary, claims that "evil forces" and "spiritual warfare" are being used against Donald Trump -- On the Bonus Show: Elon Musk goes all in on Wisconsin Supreme Court race, Marine Le Pen banned from French presidential run over embezzlement, Royce White returns to explain $1 million in credit cards fees, much more... 💵 Sponsored by Ridge Wallet: Get up to 40% OFF at https://ridge.com/pakman 💻 Get Private Internet Access for 83% OFF + 4 months free at https://www.piavpn.com/David 🩳 SHEATH Underwear: Code PAKMAN for 20% OFF at https://sheathunderwear.com/pakman -- Become a Member: https://davidpakman.com/membership -- Become a Patron: https://www.patreon.com/davidpakmanshow -- Get David's Books: https://davidpakman.com/echo -- TDPS Subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow -- David on Bluesky: https://davidpakman.com/bluesky -- David on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow

. welcome to the show if you haven't heard what is happening this weekend you need to april fifth could be huge we're talking about potentially millions of people mobilizing across the country these are called the hands of protests and this is the same progressive coalition to a degree that came together after the 2016 election when Donald Trump was elected. This time, these protests are going to be targeting really sort of like a fresh round

of authoritarian style policy changes. These executive orders, the sweeping government cuts, the Doge stuff headed at least for a few more weeks by none other than Elon Musk. By the way, Doge may not even exist come June 1st. And we're going to talk about that a little bit later in the show as well. I am both extraordinarily inspired to see that these protests are happening. And I also have some words of caution. You know, one of the things I talk about in my book, the echo machine is that there are forms of activism that historically have been shown to be effective when mass rallies happen

in urban centers, especially numerous urban centers across the country. They get noticed and this is one of the most effective forms of protest. Historically, we vote. Does signing petitions do much? I don't think so. Especially not online petitions, signing to put things on the ballot locally. That's one thing signing online petitions. I don't think it's very high up. It's certainly not high up on my list. Calling elected officials. Yes, absolutely. But what are the forms of protests that have been demonstrated really to affect change historically and mass rallies at urban centers are one of them. They can't be ignored. It's where people work. It's where people live. It's where, uh, you have news stations filming and reporting, but the goal isn't just symbolic. It's also strategic, but it only works if the protests are three things. Okay.

This, this is the, this might be the most critical line from today's show. Let's actually, let's keep today's show rather than deleting it immediately after recording. Okay. The protests must be massive, nonviolent and inclusive. Now what do I mean by inclusive? I'll get to that in a moment. When I say massive, I'm not talking about a few dozen people standing on a corner. Uh, the way that movements get momentum is through massive numbers. That's number one. But being massive is necessary, but it's not sufficient unless the protests are

nonviolent without criminality. If you want to destroy this movement from within, show up and start breaking windows, fighting with police, et cetera. That's all it takes. Now, I'm not even saying that police always act in the right way. In fact, we've been critical that police don't always act in the right way. But the point here is it needs to be self policed from the inside, but also with regard to provocateurs from outside that will seek to make it seem as though the protests are violent. You've got to really root out violence from within and also prevent it from coming in and making it look bad.

So I don't know how you do that. You need to figure out how you do that. Violence plays directly into the authoritarian playbook. And here's what's critical to understand. If we are mobilizing against authoritarianism, which we are. One of the things authoritarian movements love is to be able to justify violence and repression against protesters. If the protesters come in and break stuff or get violent, you will immediately lose the moral high ground. The media coverage will shift and suddenly the broken Starbucks window becomes the story and it will play in to authoritarians like Trump saying we need the National Guard.

Let's get the governor on the phone to call in the National Guard. So they've got to be nonviolent. And number three, they have to be inclusive. And this is crucial. We cannot repeat the mistakes of past movements that turned inward and started gatekeeping their own members. Remember the women's march where Jewish women were not considered intersectional and depressed enough to be on the leadership. That is not activism. That's purity testing. And one of the reasons that Democrats lost in 2024 is that when Republicans see someone

from the left who has one disagreement with the left, they go, come on in, join our movement after the election. You're no longer part of it, but at least for the purposes of winning elections, you have one disagreement. They go, come on in. What we see on the left too often, you have one disagreement. They go, come on in. What we see on the left too often is you have one disagreement. We're not part of the same movement. I don't want your votes. I don't want your votes. And that's a disaster. So if you care about civil liberties, if you care about democracy, if you don't want to hand the country over to a

billionaire running a fake government agency and cutting everything, then you're in period. And that's really the way that it should be. That's what solidarity looks like. So something big is happening this weekend. If you're going, be smart, bring people with you. If you're not going, there will, there will be many ways to amplify what's going on online, make noise online. Uh, and this could be the beginning of a major inflection point in 2025, or it could end up being a missed opportunity. It's up to us. I hope it's the former. Uh, let me know if you're going info at davidpacman.com. We occasionally see honesty from elected officials. And one of the little bits or scraps of honesty that's available right now is that every once in a while you'll hear from a Republican elected official

that Trump's economic policies are going to be harmful to the average person. Uh, Caitlin Collins on CNN had a Senator Tim Sheehy on and said, isn't the tariff policy of Trump going to hurt Montanans people in your state of Montana? And she, he acknowledged, yes, yes, but it's only going to be short term. Let's take a listen. That maybe there's short term pain, but long term gain here. But, but you just mentioned some of those countries i mean i was looking at the numbers 95 of montana's imported goods come from canada mexico and china is this going to hurt people in your state you think there's absolutely going to be short-term pain the president's been clear about that everyone has i mean if you're going to remodel your house to make it better in the end it's going to be really annoying in the

short term when your house is getting remodeled and there's drywall desks everywhere and there's workers in your living room. The reality is that remodel has got to happen in order to make things stronger and more stable on the back end. We've had generations now of countries taking advantage of the strong American economy, the strong American workforce. Well, you know, Montana, she, he's state, uh, Montana is a state that relies significantly on exports and agriculture. Exports and agriculture are going to be brutalized. If Trump's tariffs come to fruition tomorrow, uh, Montana's economy is deeply tied to wheat and beef and barley exports to other countries.

When Trump starts a trade war with tariffs and the other countries hit back, it's very bad for the state of Montana. In fact, the last time Trump slapped tariffs on China, uh, during his first term, uh, farmers in the U S lost billions and the government ended up having to fork over tens of billions in bailouts. And it looks like they're going to have to do it again. And most of it was over the agriculture sector. There is one other clip I want to play for you here as to the question of, are you going to have to bail out the farm? But on tariffs themselves, do you expect that you as a member of Congress will have to vote to bail farmers out? I mean, we're going to be there for them if we have to be.

And you would go bigger than $28 billion if you need to? I mean, we don't have a metric on it yet. I mean, we're going to be there for them if we have to be. And you would go bigger than 28 billion if you need to. I mean, we don't have a we don't have a metric on it yet. I mean, the landscape is just different than when it was last time. But I mean, we're going to we have to protect our egg sector. I mean, we have to be able to feed our country. So listen, Montana's wheat exports to Asia, they've already been hurt by previous trade wars. Tariffs simply raise the cost of everything. They also raise the cost for equipment. So not only is there a trade war with regard to the finished product, you also have the issue of tractors, irrigation systems, storage bins, fertilizer. All of this stuff relies on imported materials and it's all going to cost more. So not only will they make less money from their exports, they're going to be spending

more to operate. This is really not short term pain for long term gain. It's just pain. Now, contrast this with an example of economic pain that does lead to benefit. So I'll give you an example. Transitioning to clean energy, renewable clean energy. Yes. Building solar farms, building out the wind infrastructure.

There are upfront costs. There will be people in the fossil fuel world who in the short term would be hurt by a complete and total transition to clean, renewable energy. Over time, it will lower energy costs. It will create local jobs. It will create industries and it will make the country more secure by reducing our dependence on foreign oil. That's a legit example of short term pain for long term economic gain. Tariffs are just pain. This isn't going to work for anybody. Another example,

infrastructure spending. When you do infrastructure spending, it's expensive. It's slow. People say the bridge is down. I've got to take an inconvenient route to work. The highway is under repair. There's traffic, this sort of thing, but you get better roads, you get better internet, you get better transit, and you do create jobs that then pay dividends for decades. Those are examples of short-term pain for long-term gain. Trump's tariffs, just flat blanket tariffs. They make everything more expensive. Groceries cost more. Tools will cost more clothing. It doesn't fix anything. It's just pain. And Tim Sheehy as a Senator for Montana is going to have to go back and explain to his constituents why

this is actually good for them. Even when it isn't. He'll come up with something, but it doesn't seem like anybody's buying it. Trump's economic approval in the toilet. We'll talk about that. Probably won't get to it today, but later this week. A while back, I used to have this giant leather brick of a wallet in my back pocket, and I would feel it when I would sit down, I would be off kilter. And one day I said enough, I need something slim and light and minimal. So I got a Ridge wallet and I've been using it and loving it for years now. Before they became a sponsor, I was already using a Ridge wallet. I love the design. It's narrow. It holds up to 12 cards plus my cash and Ridge wallets are made with premium materials, aluminum, titanium,

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And when you type it, say it like that. Not again. To save about 50 percent off of the cost of a membership. Check it out. Donald Trump went completely off the rails at an insane press conference, said Tesla multiple times. And what is almost now a requirement of these events, Donald Trump ended the thing without signing the executive order that he was there to sign with Kid Rock. A reporter had to remind Trump, you didn't sign the thing. And Trump goes, oh, yeah, that's right. Two or three days. Thank you very much, everybody.

Thank you for us. Thank you for us. Hello. That's all right there. Thanks, guys. Thanks, guys. Well, that was good. Okay. Ready everybody. Are you better do well with this? He's going to do it. Make sure everything is nice and clean for you. Make America fun. You're not in a clean industry. All right. So anyway, Trump being reminded, oh yeah, I do have to sign this thing.

Now let's get into some of the substance here. Donald Trump using this press conference and taking questions as an opportunity once again to say, poor Elon Musk, he's been treated so unfairly. Everybody loves Tesla. Tesla. He's got, despite the way he's been treated, so he's an American patriot, but the way he's been treated with Tesla he's an American patriot. But the way he's been treated with Tesla is just terrible. It's just terrible. In fact, you have a Tesla and you love it. You know, he was saying before he bought a Tesla, a lot of people are buying Tesla's, I think. Yeah. And I hope they are. He should not be treated that way. He's done Tesla's as far as the eye can see.

Hold on. Do I have it here? Where's my Tesla? I love Tesla. I love Tesla. Anyway, such empathy from Trump for the richest man in the world. And then speaking of empathy, Trump asked again about the soldiers tragically killed in Lithuania. I guess what what my takeaway is, is that Trump has finally heard of it.

Mr. President, have you had any updates on the US soldiers missing in Lithuania? I have. Can you give us an update? So three are no longer with us. And one is unfortunately probably in the same category, but they haven't declared that yet. It was a very heavy truck like a toy. But I mean, it was a very heavy truck like a toy. Really heavy that left lifted the heaviest equipment. It would seem that the bank of a lake collapsed.

You know, the weight is so big. And it was at night and it was very cold weather, ice, a lot of ice. And it's possibly slipped. And the weight is so enormous of this thing. It's a massively heavy vehicle. And as you can see, Trump just reeking, reeking of empathy for these service members who tragically lost their lives. Donald Trump was asked about the footage of Rumaesa Ozturk, who was snatched off the street

by ICE agents in the Boston area. And maybe not surprising, he says, I really haven't seen much about it. Did you see the video of a Tufts University student who was taken off the street by ICE agents last week in hoodies and masks? There's been a lot of criticism of that. Are you comfortable with how that was handled? Well, I haven't really looked at it in any detail, but I will. I mean, I have seen it quickly, but not I wouldn't want to comment on it.

It's only been like a week, so he does need more time to watch the 90 second video. And then I'm sure he will come out with a statement that we that we will all be extraordinarily impressed by. Trump asked, are you going to move to universal tariffs on all imports or where will there be different tariffs depending on the country and the industry? Take a listen to Trump's answer. Are you going to move with a universal tariff or different individual tariff rates on a whole variety of different?

Well, you're going to see in two days, which is maybe tomorrow night or probably Wednesday, you're going to see. And they're reciprocal. So whatever they charge us, we charge them. But we're being nicer than they were. Right. So this is code for I don't know what I'm going to do. Trump has no idea what he's going to do. I guess it's tonight at the stroke of midnight, they've been talking about April 2nd. I assume sometime tonight it'll be announced. And it's sort of I mean, quite frankly, it's curious what's going to happen to your retirement account. Tune in tomorrow to find out what harebrained economic policy I'm going to put in place. And then finally, Peter Ducey asking Trump, what about if Obama were to run against you

in this hypothetical third term showdown? Obama. OK, here's what Trump said. This other story, I know it's hypothetical right now, but if you were allowed for some reason to run for a third term, is there a thought that the Democrats could try to run Barack Obama against you? I'd love that. Or his third term? I'd love that. That would be a good one. I'd like that.

No, people are asking me to run, and there's a whole story about running for a third term. I don't know. I never looked into it. They do say there's a way you can do it, but I don't know about that, but I have not looked into it. I want to do a fantastic job.

We have four years, just about almost close to four years. It's time is flying, but it's still close to four years and we're getting a lot of credit for having done a great job in the first almost 100 days. So the remember the, the question was if you can run for a third term, I guess Obama could too. What about that? And Trump's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that'd be great. But like, we're doing such a good job and everybody's extraordinarily impressed with

what we're doing. Another confused and disoriented press conference. And the primary takeaway for me continues to be Trump seems only superficially involved in and aware of what's going on in the country. That that's, that's my takeaway. And when he is using some of these, I'm just not sure yet. I don't really know what we're going to do with tariffs yet. Maybe it'll be the same tariff on every country. Maybe not. It'll be reciprocal, but I'm going to announce it. Tune in to find out on the video of the woman snatched off the street near Tufts university. Uh, Oh, I Oh, I just I looked at it quickly and I will eventually look at it.

It's been a week. How long does Trump need in order to watch a 90 second video? The takeaway is Trump is either constantly lying that he doesn't know things in order to not have to commit to any position or he's genuinely keep being kept out of the loop as to what's going on in the country and what's going on in his administration, neither of which inspires confidence. But then we got to the topic of Doge and this is absolutely critical. And I want to talk about that next. It appears as though not only is Elon Musk quitting Doge, Donald Trump seems to be suggesting

that Doge itself is ending. This might be one of the most humiliating, humiliating retreats from we have something that will solve everything to we solved it and we're going to quietly disappear. A reporter asked Donald Trump about Elon Musk's tenure as the head honcho at Doge coming to an end. And the first question was, do you want him to stay long? Yeah. Elon Musk's special government tenure is coming to an end. One hundred thirty days, I think another month. Do you want him to stay longer or is it time for him to go back to running his companies? And you're well, I think he's amazing, But I also think he's got a big company to run And so at some point he's going to be going back

He wants to But I'd keep him as long as I could keep him He's a very talented guy You know I love Very smart people He's very smart and he's done a good job You know Doge We found Numbers that nobody can even believe.

Like, right. We don't believe them. Yeah, no, nobody believes four hundred billion, five hundred billion. It could be close to a trillion dollars by the time they end on different things. And he's led the charge. And you've seen a lot of his people. And these are people that joined up. I would say the high IQ people. I like high IQ people. Oh, yeah. And they've done a great job. No. At some point, Elon's going to want to go back to his company.

I will say he's got despite the way he's been treated. So he's an American patriot. So you want him to keep going or you don't? It's like very unclear. But then here's really the newsworthy part, which is Trump seems to suggest that Doge is ending. And then once you hear from Trump, I'm going to kind of sum up the totality of this. But it seems like it's not just Elon quitting. The entire thing is going away.

What's the effect? Is Doge going to keep operating even without you? Well, I can't tell you that. I can say this, that a lot of the people that are working with those are the secretaries and the heads of the various agencies. And they've learned a lot and they're dealing with the Jewish people. I think some of them may try and keep the Jewish people with them. But you know, at a certain point, I think it will end.

But they have. Did you see how quickly Trump mentions that? I think, you know, at a certain point, I think it will end. But they have. Did you see how quickly Trump mentions that? I think, you know, at some point it will end. But these are people who think about what we've learned in the last 72 to 96 hours after failing to demonstrate any actual fraud. Remember, fraud is a crime. Fraud is a deliberate thing. They've still demonstrated none of it.

Elon Musk has now announced he's going to be bailing with the success of cutting a trillion dollars. Now, unfortunately, they didn't cut a trillion. They said they were going to cut a trillion. They claim to have cut in the documents they're putting out one hundred and thirty billion. Much of that one hundred and thirty billion is nothing. It's fairy dust. It doesn't even exist. It's things that they incorrectly added up. It's things that weren't actually, uh, elements that money was being spent on. They're cuts dating back to the Biden administration.

So a trillion, 130 billion, almost nothing. And Elon goes, we did it. I'm going to get back to my businesses. And then now Trump is asked, but Doge is going to continue, right? And Trump goes, well, at some point it's going to end. My prediction right now is that as of June 1st, Doge and Elon's involvement will simply be, remember when Elon saved all that money, it's ending, it's going away, but they're claiming victory.

Elon is going to get back to trying to save his failing companies. By the way, the situation with Tesla is not good. I love Tesla. Love it. Okay. Uh, that's what's going on. Doge is ending. Elon is getting away.

They're going away with their, they should be leaving with their tails tucked between their legs, but they're claiming victory. And sadly, I think some people have fallen for it. They think Doge actually did stuff. All right. Elon Musk himself was interviewed on Fox News and he was extraordinarily triggered by Tim Walls simply laughing about Tesla stock price going down. Are you so threatened that you feel the need to go on the offensive because Tim Walz just said, look, Tesla's I'm holding my phone up. Tesla stock is going down and Elon can't handle it as you know, the things that Trump and Elon Musk really have in common are that they are some of the most trigly billionaires I've ever seen. Does that help Tesla?

I mean, you had Tim Walz was a huge jerk. He's a jerk, right? You know, running around on stage with a Tesla stock price, having where the stock price had gone in half. Right. And he was overjoyed. But what an evil thing to do. What a creep.

What a jerk. Like who derives joy from from that? And what a jerk. Now if you want to really dig into moral compass and the deriving of joy, Elon Musk now has been celebrating the firings of what number I at this point, I couldn't even tell you the real number of people that have been fired through Doge by Elon Musk. And it seems to me extraordinarily hypocritical to celebrate those firings and the losses financially for these people who don't have the financial support that Elon Musk has based

on his wealth. And he says it's evil that Tim Walz laughed at Tesla's stock price going down. What a backward situation. What a backward situation. What a backward situation. Brett Bayer also asked Elon, what's keeping you up at night? Now, the you're going to hear a pause as Elon is thinking. This pause is not exaggerated in any way. OK, this is just the natural pause. Take a listen. Finally, what's the biggest thing for you that keeps you up at night? Well, there's a lot of things, I suppose, that I worry about, but and some of these things will seem esoteric to people. The birth rate is very low in almost

every country. And unless that changes, civilization will disappear. America had the lowest birth rate, I believe, ever. That was last year. Places like Korea, the birth rate is one-third replacement rate. So that means in three generations, Korea will be three or four percent of its current size. And nothing seems to be turning that around. Humanity is dying. And people, it's just not something we evolved to react to. Now, of course, this is a much bigger story, the issue of declining birth rates. And one of the things that I've read a couple of books on this issue, it is absolutely the case that birth rates are declining. And it seems as though globally, the richer and more developed countries get, the more the birth rate declines for a bunch of different reasons.

That also relates to women being in the workforce, delaying the age at which you have your first kid, which generally reduces the number of kids you have total people who can't afford to have as many kids as maybe once people could. There's a whole bunch of stuff that goes into it. But something about Elon Musk's obsession with it, combined with the fact that he's got, I think, more than a dozen kids, some under circumstances that, I mean, listen, yes, you're populating the earth, but are you actually providing what children need beyond just money? If he's even providing the money, you know, it's sort of like raises questions as to the way in which we want to deal with this issue. Elon Musk seems fixated on this issue in a way that's starting to get a little weird. So there's Elon. People are being mean to him and he's really, really upset. will not subject you to that. PIA is the only VPN fully optimized for lightning fast streaming and

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Go to PIA VPN.com slash David. The link is in the podcast notes. It's great to welcome for the first time to the show today, Congressman Dan Goldman, representing the 10th district of New York. That includes lower Manhattan. It includes parts of Western Brooklyn as well. Great to have you, Congressman. Appreciate it. Great to be with you, David.

So just to start with something topical, I'm curious the behind the scenes of this floating of the prospect of a third term for Donald Trump. I'm hearing from folks who say, ignore this and don't even talk about it. It's a deliberate distraction. I'm hearing from folks who say, you know, it might be good to hear from someone who's actually on Capitol Hill, whether this is being taken seriously by you and your colleagues. Is this anything? Well, I think it is a scary, scary suggestion that in my mind actually is very much related to other authoritarian actions that an anti-democratic actions that Donald Trump has taken. So, you know, yes, it's being taken seriously by some. A congressman from Tennessee has introduced a constitutional amendment to allow Donald Trump to have a third term. I would just note that is,

of course, an admission that it would require changing the Constitution for him to serve a third term. But to me, it is, I think, part of him paving his way toward becoming a Putin-esque dictator. And we've seen any number of actions to this point along those lines. He pardoned all the January 6th violent criminals who stormed the Capitol in support of him. He has fired prosecutors and law enforcement agents who investigated and prosecuted him. He has fired almost all of the inspectors general in the executive branch agencies. He has put his own partisan political lackeys at the head of those agencies. And he has essentially cowed Congress into giving him all of their power. And now he's going after the

judiciary. And so this is all part and parcel of his effort to take down our democracy. And I think a third term is kind of the culmination of that effort that he is socializing and he is paving the way. On the other hand, it's quite far down the road. There won't be a constitutional amendment. And it's very speculative at this point. And so to some extent, yes, it's a distraction from all of the other devastating actions that he is actually taking right now. But I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time. And I think it's important to call this out as part of his effort to take down our democracy. And as the other parts of that effort are propelling him or compelling him to cut all sorts of government programs, to implement wild tariffs, to undo birthright citizenship, to, you know, get rid of the Department of Education, it's all part and parcel of the same effort to simply take over our government.

In terms of what is being done, everybody's favorite favorite press secretary, Caroline Leavitt, yesterday declared that the investigation into Signalgate has been completed. They found no wrongdoing. You'll be pleased to hear, I'm sure. And yet at the same time, we're hearing from the attorney general, Pam Bondi, you'd better be careful if you get anywhere near a Tesla showroom. You would better be careful. And even even your colleague, Jasmine Crockett, should be careful based on what she says. What do you make of the DOJ's willingness to go after the people protesting Tesla while

simultaneously just sort of brushing off the idea that there's anything to look at seriously with what happened with Signal last week. Yeah, well, look, people who destroy property should be prosecuted. What is preposterous is to create a task force within the FBI to investigate those who are targeting Tesla cars for destruction and to claim that they're domestic terrorists when they will not even acknowledge that the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers, all of those who rioted and invaded the Capitol are domestic terrorists. But the broader point is Pam Bondi has already admitted essentially or has acted as if she lied under oath. She very clearly said that she will not politicize the Department of Justice.

Under all sorts of precedent, Republican precedent especially, this signal gate absolutely must and would be investigated by a special counsel, just like Biden's possession of classified documents was investigated by a special counsel, just like Trump's possession of classified documents, just like Hillary Clinton's emails were investigated by the FBI. FBI, at a minimum, you have to investigate this. But to claim that there is nothing in disclosing clearly classified information on an unsecured signal chat going to a journalist, and of course, it could have been anybody, that that doesn't warrant investigation. And not surprisingly, and I was a former prosecutor, David, I never met a defendant. I never charged a defendant who did committed a crime for the very first time. When you get caught, it's not the first time. And now it's coming out that Mike Waltz had created a lot of other signal chats. And of course, he had. And that's got to be part of the investigation. Is there are there other instances. So the fact that she refuses to do it is so clearly partisan. It is so clearly consistent with Donald Trump's stated efforts to use the Department of Justice and his pardon power to help his allies get out of jail and to harm his adversaries and to prosecute and target them. One of the reasons I've asserted Democrats did not do well in November, uh, was being unable to effectively communicate on some issues with the American people. Uh, after the November election, I was invited to meet with some top

Biden advisors and even the former president himself. This was December. And I got the impression from the questions they were asking that they realized that there was something that didn't work quite right. I'm wondering your view from the inside as to whether you think there is a path or a plan here to improve that since Donald Trump has taken office. And I'll sort of kind of caveat or fill this in with when I interview folks like you, your colleagues over on the Senate side, et cetera, I hear from my audience, some version of these seem like smart, capable, well-intentioned people. It's just not cool right now to be a Democrat. There's just something that's missing in terms of what what exactly is being offered. And I want to hear a little bit from you about how you and your colleagues are thinking

about this behind the scenes, because from what I hear from my audience, there's a lot of left leaning folks who are very displeased with the Democratic Party right now. Yeah. And and I I understand it. Well, I think what we failed to do was relate to the American people where they were. And I'll give you a good example, and I take responsibility for this. You know, as a former prosecutor and as the lead counsel in the impeachment of Donald Trump for the first time, my area of sort of focus and expertise is rule of law, separation of powers, democracy, constitutional law. And when I saw Project 2025, I was petrified because it was so clearly the playbook for a Donald Trump presidency. For better or worse, probably worse, I feel like I know Donald Trump very well. And

there was no doubt in my mind that this was exactly the agenda that he was going to implement. He paid lip service to knowing nothing about it. Of course, that was bullshit. But I talked a lot about Project 2025. What I, I'll take take responsibility to talk about myself. What I failed to do in retrospect was connect Project 2025 to everyday lives of the American people. How is Donald Trump's efforts to undermine the rule of law, to take down our democracy, to politicize the government and weaponize the Department of Justice and to cut all sorts of programs. How is Project 2025 going to affect you to the American the American people? And I think that where our policies very broadly and very consistently are much, much better for the American people. And what we have to do a better job is explaining that people are being lied to and gaslit by Donald

Trump and the Republicans, and that what we stand for is making sure that every American gets that access to pursue the American dream. That is at its core what the Democratic Party wants to do. We want to make sure that we have equal opportunity, not equal outcomes, equal opportunity for people to succeed and to pursue the American dream. That is what makes this country so special, is there's not a class system that anybody can, you know, make a website in their college dorm room and become the biggest company in the world. That innovation and growth and opportunity is what makes this country special. And that what we are trying to do is make sure that people can eat, make sure that people can have health care, can have child care, can have the basic necessities of life so that they can not only get by, but they can get ahead. That is the fundamental principle of the Democratic Party.

And that is very different from the Republican Party, which don't pay attention to their words, pay attention to their actions. And what they are doing are cutting all of those services and programs for the vast, vast majority of the American people in order to cut taxes on Elon Musk and other billionaires and to sort of pay back their benefactors who helped Donald Trump win the election. I want to dig into the taxes aspect a little bit because it's now being reported. We, you, you just never know where this will all shake out, but it's being reported that the Trump administration and Republicans may allow that top tax rate to go from 37 back to the 39.6 in exchange for being able to get through a bunch of other stuff that we still don't exactly know. But the idea is it was assumed there's no way that top tax rate is going back up to

thirty nine six. Maybe, maybe it will. Do you see that? First of all, do you even buy that? That's a possibility. But secondly, do you think that that's a cynical attempt to get something else through that's even worse for the average American or what would be behind that move? Well, look, people have criticized our party a lot and I think justifiably.

But I want to take a moment to claim at least some progress on this very issue. OK. The reason why they are floating this is that our messaging that they are cutting Medicaid, that they are cutting the Department of Education, they are cutting health care, they're cutting federal employees. And in order to pave the way for tax cuts on the super wealthy and the billionaires has broken through. They they know that politically, that is a loser for them. And so they are scrambling to figure out a way to blunt that argument, which has resonated with the American people. excuse me, where they can undermine that very clear, concise argument that we have consistently been making, certainly since, you know, in the past month, month and a half. And so, yes, it's not always as sexy as a subpoena to Elon Musk or introducing legislation on the floor

that would stop Elon Musk from just indiscriminately cutting all government services and programs that he just doesn't like. We don't have the power to do that, unfortunately, in the minority. So we are using other means to make a difference and to fight back. They are not as sexy. I grant you that. And they take some time and they take some effort. And frankly, they are much more effective when we and Congress here are unified with the American people in fighting together and in amplifying what is really going on. Because Donald Trump and the Republicans will lie and gaslight until the cows come home. Everything they say is a lie.

And what we need to do and are trying to do is to actually tell the truth so that the American people understand it. And we have the facts to back it up. And our job, which we are trying to do, is to lift that message up, make sure Americans understand that they're coming after your food benefits. They're coming after Medicaid. They're coming after Social Security. They are coming after the most central and critical programs that our government provides. to cut taxes on big corporations and the wealthy. And this discussion and you're right, who knows whether it'll happen. This discussion is a result of our effective messaging that they realize is politically just unpalatable. Speaker 1 A congressman. Last thing I want to ask you about. I don't believe that the left is as eager to have a single leader in the way that the right seems happy to have one

leader, which right now is Donald Trump. So the question is a little different, I think, on the left than it is on the right. But that being said, who do you see right now as we get closer to 26 and then in kind of the more distant future, we're talking about 2028, who seem to be the rising leaders of the Democratic Party, if any? I think the very clear emerging leader is Hakeem Jeffries. And to recognize that that leader Jeffries is just in his second term of being the Democratic leader. He is emerging as a strong leader. He is a fabulous strategic thinker, messenger. He's a great leader to those of us who are here with him.

And I think that as we start moving forward, he will assert himself more and more to be the voice of the Democratic Party. And I think that that is that is the what what I hope and expect to happen. And I think he'll be absolutely outstanding at doing that. Mike, I have had him on the show. My counterpoint is he has 35 percent approval per Gallup. Now, I will say that there's a lot of, I haven't heard of Hakeem Jeffries in that a hundred percent, right? To get up to a hundred, it's not just 35, 65. There's a lot of, I have, I'm not familiar with this person, but it's interesting that

you're, you're mentioning him and some others have as well when there seems to be an approval problem. But I also wonder whether that's listen, when you lose everything in November and you start polling people in March, April, the numbers are never that great. I don't know. I think it's an open question for me. Well, look, I mean, we have to be realistic here. The Democratic Party's approval numbers are as low as they've ever been. Yeah, they're lower than 35 percent in some polls. So it's a party problem that we are aware of. And I think that I'm not worried about Hakeem's approval rating. The more that he gets out there and the more he asserts his leadership, the more that the American people will come to recognize

what a terrific representative he is for the American people. All right. I know I will hear from my audience as to whether they agree with you. Congressman Dan Goldman, really appreciate your time and great having you on. Thanks so much for having me, David. Guys in my audience, I know you're tired of the chafing with traditional underwear. Our sponsor sheath makes the most comfortable boxer briefs I've ever worn. If you're sick of the boxers that are too loose or the briefs that are too tight, sheath is for you. Sheath underwear is designed with two special pouches in the front, keeps everything separate in its own compartment with extra confidence that you will feel throughout the day, keeping things separate and comfortable, no more sticking and

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Shame on you. Shame on you over pretty damn good questions from Andrew Feinberg as to the methodology that's being used to just deport some of the alleged gang members that have been deported to El Salvador. Here is Caroline. She didn't like it. She simply didn't like it. She simply didn't like validation guide. The DHS is using to determine who is an enemy, a trendier, I remember

has criteria that require eight points to be classified as a TDA member. You can get classified by simply having certain symbols in your tattoos and wearing certain streetwear brands. That alone is enough to get someone classified as TDA and sent to El Salvador. That's not true, actually, Andrew. According to this document, it is. No, according to the Department of Homeland Security and the agents. Have you talked to the agents who have been putting their lives on the line to detain these foreign terrorists who have been terrorizing our communities? TDA is a vicious gang that has taken the lives of American women.

And our agents on the front lines take up deporting these people with the utmost seriousness. And there is a litany of criteria that they use to ensure that these individuals qualify as foreign terrorists and to ensure to ensure that they qualify for deportation. And the president made it incredibly clear to the American public that there would be a mass deportation campaign of not just foreign terrorists, but also illegal criminal aliens who have been wreaking havoc on American communities and shame on you and shame on the mainstream media for trying to cover for these individuals. Now, of course, what she's saying isn't true. The reason that Andrew Feinberg keeps interrupting and he sounds agitated is he is completely correct. She goes, no, that's not true. We have the document. Okay. This is a document which we'll put up called the alien enemies act alien enemy validation guide. You need only eight points here to qualify as a trend that agua member based on this. And if we

look at the second page, you see the point totals there. You do have at the bottom four points simply for displaying the dress known to indicate allegiance to TDA. So they often get this wrong. But if you wear what is believed to be the clothing and then if you have a tattoo that is believed to show allegiance just based on the symbolism section alone, you can qualify under this rubric for deportation. We know they've gotten it wrong. We know of one individual who had it was a tattoo that had like a crown with his parents. It was sort of like a an homage to the person's parents.

It was interpreted as being the symbolism of TDA and an homage to the person's parents. It was interpreted as being the symbolism of TDA. And the person got deported based on this rubric. Uh, she is completely wrong. And probably the reason she's interrupting constantly is that she knows that she's lying, uh, on the topic of signal gate. She was asked and said, it's case closed. There it is. They've declared the scandal is over. As you said last week, Carolina, you said there would be an investigation or a review into how a Jeffrey Goldberg's number got on that group chat. What's the status of that review? Yeah. How did that review go? Did you determine how it got in there? Caroline,

was it sucked in like the matrix? And what is the status of a national securityz? As the president has made it very clear, Mike Walz continues to be an important part of his national security team. And this case has been closed here at the White House. As far as we are concerned, there have been steps made to ensure that something like that can obviously never happen again. And we're moving forward. And the president and Mike Walz and his entire national security team have been working together very well. If you look at how much safer the United States of America is. So isn't that nice? They've declared the scandal over.

They've investigated themselves and found absolutely no wrongdoing. Uh, finally the topic of Trump's third term came up. You just potentially run for a third term came up. Look, you guys continue to ask the president this question about a third term, and then he answers honestly and candidly with a smile. And then everybody here melts down about his answer. The president was talked about this last night on the plane. He said it's not really something we're thinking about. He has four years. There's a lot of work to do. We've done a lot in these nearly first 100 days. And the American people. Particularly when it comes to efforts to secure the border.

Now this whole thing of like he said what he believes about it and now you're all flipping out like, well, yes, he said something crazy. He said that there's a number of ways that he could end up serving a third term. It's sort of like she thinks the press should be satisfied that he gave an answer, but it's the content of the answer that's disturbing. Now, if you're wondering what is the general orientation of Caroline Leavitt to the world, how is it that she has become such a violent, disgusting character in this entire thing? She just did an interview explaining it. And we're going to talk about

that next. Caroline Leavitt blamed evil forces and spiritual warfare as part of what is dragging down Donald Trump. This is a cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs interview with the Christian Broadcasting Network. The framing of the interview is her hardcore religious beliefs. I feel the need to issue a little bit of a disclaimer here. I don't really feel the need to criticize Caroline Leavitt for being religious. OK, many people draw strength from their faith and that's fine. But two things are a problem here. Number one, she's getting into wacky supernatural territory, talking about evil forces, trying

to stop Trump, like some kind of demonic Marvel character, right? That's a problem. And number two, she constantly claims religious values, honesty, humility, service, and then she ignores them completely. Kaylee Maganani did this as well. She's, you know, with her big cross and I'm so religious. She lied more than any press secretary up to that point. Maybe Caroline Leavitt will surpass her.

So here is Caroline Leavitt explaining that there is spiritual warfare and evil forces at play against the mango menace. It's warfare out there. You know, in Christian terms, people will call what's happening in our country today spiritual warfare. Do you see it in those terms, kind of good versus evil out there, and you know, that context? How do you see that? I certainly think, I certainly believe in spiritual warfare. And I think I saw it firsthand, especially throughout the campaign trail with president Trump. And I think there certainly were evil forces. Um, and I think that the president, um, was saved by the grace of God on, on July 13th in Butler, Pennsylvania. And he's in this moment for a reason. We're all here for a reason. And I think it's, um,

a miraculous thing that has taken place in our country. Think about that. She believes in spiritual warfare and evil forces, that spiritual warfare and those evil forces butted up against on that day in Butler, Pennsylvania, the will of God. And God rejected the spiritual warfare launched against Trump by redirecting the bullet. So it would graze Trump's ear, but kill an innocent person standing behind Donald Trump. What a world, what a world. We have moved from fake news to full blown demonic conspiracy. And this is not a random Trump surrogate. This is the primary person who speaks for Trump at the White House. She was asked more generically about her faith. Listen to this.

Your Catholic education, you've talked about this before, about how it shaped who you are today. Tell us about that. How so? Because the Catholic education was very important. Your Catholicism growing up, God, church, very important to you. Yes. My faith is incredibly important to me. I would argue now more than ever, being in a role that is very demanding and at times controversial,

and there's a lot of public pressure and discussion online about who you are and your family. And, you know, it could be difficult for someone who doesn't have faith, but with faith, all things are possible. And my Catholic education was a pivotal part of my upbringing. It definitely teaches discipline. It's something you learn in Catholic schools. And then I obviously went to a Catholic college as well, St. Anselm in New Hampshire, which not only drove my faith further, but also introduced me to the world of politics and news. Yeah. How did it drive your faith further, you think, uh, introduced me to the world of politics and news. Yeah. How did it drive your faith further?

You think it's saying Anson, you had challenges there, I guess. Yeah, I think so. And just being in a community that embraces faith, uh, and talks about it openly, uh, and opened your eyes to it. And also being around fellow students and peers who aren't afraid to go to church on Sunday and you know, the problem I have with this is that she lies constantly. She lies constantly about what Trump has done. She lies constantly about Biden's record.

She lies about the press. She lies about what Trump has said, even when it's on video. So I have no issue with her bringing, uh, talking about her religious background. I do have a problem with the wacky supernatural stuff, but which part of the way that she carries out this job lines up with Christian values because I missed the verse about bearing false witness to protect the guy who tried to overthrow the government. I missed the part about telling lie after lie after lie. I don't know where any of that came from and yet she insists that this is how she's oriented to the world.

Finally, she was asked about taking questions from reporters. When you call on reporters, are you already kind of gaming out in your head? Oh, okay. I know where they're going to go today. Do you kind of think that through? Oftentimes the questions are predictable. If you just look at the MSDNC Chiron, you'll know where some of the reporters in that room are going to go.

So the whole routine, you know, wrapping Trump in religious martyrdom, wrapping herself in this aura of religiosity, claiming the critics are evil, talking about spiritual warfare. I believe that it's dangerous. It dehumanizes political opponents and it turns basic truth telling into a satanic attack. When the reporters bring her, Hey, you said this about what Trump said, but here's the video. You already lied and she lies again. It makes the argument that that's a satanic attack somehow. When you've got the white house press secretary talking like she's leading an exorcism, maybe you should say, I don't know that the problem is spiritual warfare.

Maybe I'm defending a guy who's incompetent and a liar every single day. Maybe the problem is she's working for a twice impeached convicted felon and trying to spin it and say, it's God's will. It's God's will that I defend the lies of a twice impeached convicted felon. Wacky stuff. But as I've said before, she seems to have what it takes to last as Donald Trump's press secretary. She may end up being the longest serving press secretary under Trump. All right. I want to say thank you to the three hundred and fifty seven people who reviewed my book on Amazon and many of them also on Barnes and Noble and on Goodreads.

The book is out. We're going to know very soon about how the book did in week one. Barnes and Noble is restocking many of their stores selling through their three to five copies. They were going to get two copies. Then many stores got three, four or five. Many stores sold all of them. They're flying. I am flattered and humbled by what's going on. If you haven't gotten the book, I encourage you to get it. Hardcover Kindle audio book. If you have gotten the book, please review it, especially on Amazon, but also Barnes and Noble and Goodreads.

We've got a great bonus show for you today. We will talk about the latest with the Wisconsin Supreme Court race. We will talk about Marine Le Pen being banned from running for president in France over embezzlement and our old friend Royce White. Remember the strip club spending guy that I interviewed a while ago? He now is trying to explain how 80 percent of his campaign spending was on credit card fees. How could that possibly be? We will discuss it on the bonus show, which you can access by signing up at join Pacman dot com. Get the full experience.

It's the daily bonus show. Oh, the bonus show where you want to make money. Everybody else that makes money to fund themselves is bad. Yes. The bonus show, commercial free audio and video feeds of the show. The show is made available hours earlier to our members and you get access to the members only soundboard and lots of other great stuff. So I'll see you then. And I'll be back tomorrow for liberation day. According to Donald Trump, it sounds very bad.