The David Pakman Show - 4/24/24: Romney drops hammer on MAGA, Trump desperate for protesters

Episode Date: April 24, 2024

-- On the Show: -- Pregnant women are being turned away in emergency rooms in Texas, Florida, and other red states as medical providers are fearful of restrictive abortion laws -- Republican Senator Mitt Romney goes after Marjorie Taylor Greene, Donald Trump, and the MAGA movement as he prepares to exit politics -- David Pecker, a critical witness in the criminal trial of Donald Trump, drops a bombshell during testimony on the second day of the trial -- Failed former President Donald Trump leaves court in a panic holding a stack of "articles" that he claims prove there should be no trial against him -- A desperate Donald Trump calls for MAGA protests outside the courthouse where he is being tried, as MAGA voters opt to stay home -- Donald Trump complains that the courtroom is too cold -- A confused Donald Trump claims that "everybody wanted" Roe v. Wade repealed, among a series of other lies that he tells during an interview -- The Secret Service is developing a plan for protecting Donald Trump in jail -- As Robert F. Kennedy Jr. increasingly appears to be hurting Trump rather than Biden, Trump panics and attacks Kennedy as a far-left candidate -- Donald Trump's poll numbers are collapsing with independents, an ominous sign for him for November's election -- Voicemail caller points out the absurdity of Donald Trump arguing that he should not be tried in New York City because there are many Democrats there -- On the Bonus Show: Larry Nassar's victims reach $128.7 million settlement over botched FBI probe, FTC votes to ban noncompete agreements, Bill Barr says he will back Trump in 2024 despite criticisms, much more... 🔊 Babbel language learning: Get up to 60% OFF at https://babbel.com/pakman 🔥 Kasual App: Get 35% OFF at https://davidpakman.com/kasual 💪 Athletic Greens is offering FREE year-supply of Vitamin D at https://athleticgreens.com/pakman 🛌 Use code HELIXPARTNER20 for 20% off + free bedroom set at https://helixsleep.com/pakman -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

Speaker 1 We are seeing the real world consequences of the overturning of Roe v. Wade and the real fear that many medical practitioners have that if they treat pregnant women in a way that contradicts what politicians want to see, the providing medical professionals could themselves have legal problems. We predicted this. We expected this. And now it is happening. Complaints that pregnant women were turned away from American emergency rooms have been

spiking in the United States since the Supreme Court ruled to overturn Roe v. Wade. The Associated Press has done an investigation, obtained a number of different federal documents, and the anecdotes are, of course, terrible. One woman miscarried in the lobby restroom of a Texas emergency room as front desk staff refused to check her in. This was, by the way, one of these sort of pop up strip mall style E.R.'s that exist in some parts of the country. I've never actually seen this, but I'm told they exist in some parts of the country. We'll come back to that. A woman learned that her fetus had no heartbeat at a Florida hospital the day after a security guard turned her away from the facility in North Carolina. A woman gave birth in a car after an emergency room wouldn't or

couldn't offer an ultrasound and the baby later died. And so this is really raising alarms about the state of emergency pregnancy care all around the United States, of course, in particular in the states that have enacted these strict abortion laws or where strict abortion laws have been triggered by the overturning of Roe v. Wade, sometimes very old abortion laws, 1864, as we are seeing in the case of Arizona. And so this is a major problem. Medical professionals are confused about what am I legally able to provide in terms of care? We've talked about these horrible situations of pregnant women who were diagnosed with serious conditions, including cancer and doctors in the E.R., essentially throwing their hands up and

saying, listen, I don't know what's legal. What if I provide care that deals with this cancer, for example, in a pregnant woman and it causes a miscarriage? Am I going to jail is a question that is being asked. And recall that all the way back in September, which would be three seven months ago, about seven months ago, I did this story. Oh, BGY ends fleeing red states over insane abortion laws. And this is exactly what we are seeing. Now, there's another element to this tragedy, tragedy, by the way. First of all, this is not what federal law says must be done. Federal law says E.R.'s are required to treat and stabilize patients,

including those who are pregnant or in active labor and provide a medical transfer to another hospital or facility if they don't have the staff or resources to treat them. Sarah Rosenbaum, who's a George Washington University health law and policy professor, said to the Associated Press as part of this investigation that the Associated Press was doing that pregnant patients have, quote, become radioactive to emergency departments. This is exactly what was predicted in September. And in these states where they have these extreme abortion restrictions, quote, they are so scared of a pregnant patient that the emergency medicine

staff won't even look. They just want these people gone. And then this gets us to that final note that I want to mention. The facility in Texas where this anecdote took place is what's called a freestanding emergency room. Now, most of us are familiar with ERs at hospitals and most of us are familiar with urgent cares, which are often independent, freestanding. They sort of like, you know, you think back to Breaking Bad and the chicken shop. It's sort of the same type of freestanding urgent care. And we understand they're only equipped to handle certain things. The urgent care knows they're only equipped to handle certain things. They will tell you go to an ER depending on what you present with. This is a different thing. This is a sort of

health profit industrial complex appendage where it's like a mattress storefront or a chicken shop that is designated as an ER. But it functions sort of as a hybrid between a not great urgent care and a money generating machine, kind of like a mattress store in a strip mall. And it is another thing that is extraordinarily concerning in terms of the care that's being provided not only to pregnant pregnant women, but to others as well. But that's a topic probably for a different day. So we expected this. Now the real question is, will there be voting repercussions?

One of the difficulties in American politics when you have federal, state and local elected officials and centers of legislation passing laws and doing things is that it's really common that the voter identifies something that's going on, but they don't really know who to blame or praise. The prototypical example of this is Obamacare and the Medicaid expansion. Obamacare, of course, passed under Barack Obama in 2010. And one of the elements of Obamacare was if states expand Medicaid, they get federal money. They're not obligated to do it. Many red state governors, Republican governors opted not to expand Medicaid when 2012 came around in the potential reelection of Barack Obama, in which he was easily reelected. There

were many red state voters who said, you know, they did this Obamacare thing. It was supposed to be good. And I don't have care here in Kentucky, for example. And they blamed Obama when in reality they should have been blaming the red state governor that didn't accept and do the Medicaid expansion for which they would have gotten all of the federal federal money. Do voters know that the reason that rights are being restricted medically in these red states, do they know that it's thanks to Trump being elected in 2016, selecting three Supreme Court justices who overturned Roe v. Wade and now red states are either passing or activating these extreme laws?

And as a result, OBGYN and other medical practitioners are saying, I'm out. Do they know that? And if they know that, are they going to punish Republicans in November? Hopefully the answer is yes. Remains to be seen. We all must vote to encourage that to take place. Mitt Romney, the Republican senator, former Republican presidential candidate, former Republican governor of Massachusetts, now Utah senator. He is getting ready to exit politics.

And in so doing, he has not been holding back about his disagreements, not just with Donald Trump. It's easy to say I'm not a Trump Republican, but with the entire world of MAGA Trump ism that includes members of Congress like Marjorie Taylor Greene and others. Mitt Romney was interviewed yesterday. Accountable GOP has some of these clips that we're going to take a look at. Mitt Romney was asked about radical and repugnant reactionary Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene.

And he said that these are this is a flavor of Republican that he has simply had enough of. Take a listen. What do you make of people like Marjorie Taylor Greene going after Mike Johnson, try to push him out for the speakership because of this decision? You know, there are some folks who try and get themselves as many tweets, as many followers as they can. A lot, a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.

That's exactly right. Marjorie, Marjorie Taylor Greene doesn't really stand for anything. She will claim to have values and principles for which she stands when it is politically convenient and expedient. And there is some immediate benefit to her, which is really the definition of mega Trump ism. You know, we could say, well, there was a once a form of fiscal conservatism that really was about low regulation and low taxes.

They weren't as concerned about social issues. There is a flavor of evangelical conservatism that is less concerned with the fiscal, but more concerned about abortion and what they see as moral and social issues. MAGA Trump ism doesn't have policy. It has egocentrism at its core, and it's what's good for me right now. What can I use as a cudgel against my political opponents to make myself look good and obtain power and goodies for myself and my friends? That's the only real principle underlying Trump's political philosophy, to the extent

that it's a philosophy. And it's the only thing underlying folks like Marjorie Taylor Greene. Yeah, I guess I'm against this or against that if it's convenient, if it gives me someone to attack. And Mitt Romney is calling that out. Doesn't mean we agree with Mitt Romney on policy. It just means he's right about this issue. He was also asked about the ongoing trial of Donald Trump. And here's what he had to say about Trump's character. I think everybody has made their own assessment of President Trump's character. And so far as I know, you don't pay someone one hundred and thirty thousand dollars not to have sex with you.

Wow. That was Republican Senator Mitt Romney. What a soundbite reacting there, too. All right. So it's a fair point, by the way. So this is not about saying I want the country run by people like Mitt Romney. It is about saying if the opposition were people like Mitt Romney, we would be far better off and for people who get always get angry and say, David, this is a guy that you voted against in 2012. Right. Yeah. Oh, Barack Obama was better in 2012.

There's no doubt about that. But I would rather have my opponents start from obviously the candidate that wins the election should be president. And now we can disagree about American foreign policy, taxes, regulation, education policy. That's a much safer and sane starting point than even though my guy lost, I believe he should be the president. That's where a lot of MAGA Trump ism is starting. So we have to be able to distinguish these things. It doesn't mean we're glamorizing Mitt Romney Republican ism. It's that we are saying that the Overton window comes to the left when the starting point

for Republicans is people like Mitt Romney and John McCain who say we need to be more civil in politics. We need to respect institutions. We need to stand by our international agreements. We need to respect election results. And when voters make a decision and then once we've done that, we can have robust and rigorous political disagreement, including areas in which I think they are sort of nuts. And I can make the case for why I think the policy I stand for is better for the country than what they stand for. But we're starting at. Yes, we respect

institutions. We stick to our word as a country and we make the winner of the election the president rather than trying to crowbar in the guy that lost a much better place to start from when we talk about a shared basis, in fact, for going forward and carrying out political goals and objectives and political debate. And that's where I would rather be starting. It's not where we are starting right now. Pecker dumped a bombshell yesterday. Pecker, what are you talking about, David? Pecker is, of course, David Pecker, Donald Trump's friend. If you believe Donald Trump is capable of friendship, I don't know that he is.

David Pecker is the former publisher of the National Enquirer and the former CEO of its parent company, American Media Incorporated. And during testimony yesterday in court, he said that he and Trump coordinated not only to publish positive stories about Trump, but to publish attack and smear pieces about Donald Trump's opponents in the 2016 presidential campaign. Why is this such major, major news? Well, because Donald Trump has repeatedly denied that this is what they were doing. Trump has denied that he and Pecker had a so-called catch and kill scheme going on.

And Pecker is admitting under oath we had a catch and kill scheme going on. According to MSNBC contributor Adam Klossfeld, who's been in the courtroom, quote, Trump asked me, what can I do and what my magazines can do to help the campaign? Pecker said he could publish positive stories about Trump and negative stories about his opponents. Klassfeld going on to tweet about the testimony,ote, Pecker also says he told Trump, I would be your eyes and ears because I knew that the Trump organization has a very small staff. Anything I hear negative about yourself and anything negative I hear about women selling

stories, I would notify Michael Cohen and he would be able to have them killed in another magazine. This completely and totally corroborates corroborates prosecutor assertions about what was going on. And this completely and totally contradicts Donald Trump's version of events. Pecker basically confirmed the entire conspiracy to affect the election. Now, there is relevant law here. Election law 17152 prohibits conspiracies to promote a candidate's election through unlawful means. Now, since they were falsifying paperwork to make the payments, this was part of a conspiracy to promote the election of Trump through unlawful means. And it arguably proves the case. Now, as legal experts have said, there is no charge for conspiracy, but it doesn't change

the fact that if we've identified a conspiracy with unlawful means, the charges are for the unlawful means that were employed. And that makes this all a crime. So you don't win a case with your first witness. But if Packer's testimony is viewed as truthful and it certainly appears to be, this is a very good start for the prosecution. Now, you still need the jury to agree. Even more important is Michael Cohen's testimony, because we all know we've interviewed Michael Cohen. He's talked about it extensively. Cohen's testimony is going to corroborate this. And my

expectation is that anybody who takes the witness stand and doesn't lie is also going to corroborate that this catch and kill scheme was going on. Now, I don't necessarily know that there will be consequences even if Trump is found guilty. But unless there are jurors willing to ignore what appear to be the facts and we're not trying the case in the court of public opinion, but we're observing what's out there, unless jurors are determined to say, I don't care what the evidence is, it's not guilty. Every indication is that Trump absolutely did the thing for which he's accused here. Now, as a side note, the Inquirer also published a picture. You might recall this was a smear of Ted Cruz back in the 2016 election.

The Inquirer published a picture allegedly showing Ted Cruz's father, Rafael Cruz, with Lee Hardy, Harvey Oswald, handing out pro Fidel Castro pamphlets in New Orleans in 1963, not long before Lee Harvey Oswald assassinated John F. Kennedy. This was meant to link Ted Cruz through his father to the assassination of Kennedy. Trump during the 2016 campaign would regularly refer to it and say, what was Ted Cruz's dad up to there? The entire story was made up. That's another thing that came out during the

Pecker testimony, which is that that story was completely fabricated. And it was something Trump was regularly referring to during the campaign. So it just shows the way in which these catch and kill techniques, the smear stories about Trump's opponents, the positive stories about Trump. It was all happening in service to try to elect Donald Trump. And much of that happens to be against the law. Now, you can say it shouldn't be against the law. This is minor. This isn't a big deal. It's just it is what it is. It's just publishing stuff. It's speech at the end of the day. Well, in that case, you have to argue for the law to be changed. But it happens to be the law right now. So the question we are left with is in the increased apparent guilt of Trump.

Will the jury be willing to convict? Not will they, but would they even be willing to? I don't know the answer to that. Curious to hear your thoughts. What is the best way to learn a language immersion living where the language is spoken and using it every day when that's not possible. You can still learn a language. And I think the second best way is Babbel. Our sponsor Babbel is the science backed language learning app that works and works quickly. Don't pay hundreds of dollars for private tutors or waste hours on apps that don't really help you start speaking the language. Babbel's quick 10 minute lessons are

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We do an extra program every single day for our members. It's called the bonus show. You can find it by signing up at join Pakman dot com, a very, very exciting website on which you will be able to sign up. You can use the coupon code Save Democracy 24 to get a discount and people loving the new membership website. I have to say it's working very, very well. Donald Trump left court in a panic yesterday holding a stack of papers that he says is a bunch of articles. He also argues that the gag order is just so unfair that even articles he's not allowed to tweet or excrete or troth out. This is a guy who is scared.

This is a guy who realizes I could end up in prison for the rest of my natural life if this doesn't go the well, the way I want it to go. So let's let's listen to Trump. And by the way, it at no moment after David Packer's testimony yesterday, explosive testimony, consequential testimony, as we discussed earlier, at no point during these rants and tirades, did Donald Trump refute any of what David Pecker said? So here's Trump with his stack of papers. Can't even allow articles to be put in as an example. These are articles that were over the last day and a half.

And if you're not watching and you're only listening, Trump takes out what looks like about 100 pieces of paper and he's riffing through them. Quite a prop. Very good article. The case is cases of sham and should be tried. It should have been submitted. And I don't even know if you're allowed to put a gag on it, which to me is totally unconstitutional. I'm not allowed to talk, but people are allowed to talk about me. Right.

Well, Trump is on trial. So that's this guy is so confused about how everything works. It's unconscious. Gag orders are not unconstitutional. Gag orders are limited and they're there to preserve a proper trial, a fair trial. We've already talked about it. There's nothing unconstitutional there. Donald Trump insists that it's wrong that others can talk about him, but he can't talk about others, of course, misunderstanding or not understanding what a trial even is. And every time this guy opens his mouth, he seems to get himself into trouble.

And yet he says it's Biden who is the one getting himself into trouble. So we're locked up in a courtroom. But this guy's out there campaigning. If you go to campaign every time he opens his mouth, he gets himself into trouble. Yeah, I you know, it's there's some irony here in hearing Trump who's going through disastrous gag order hearings because he just can't stop attacking the judge and the judge's daughter and witnesses and gesticulating at jurors. Trump's the one who every time he opens his mouth, he gets himself into trouble. And he says it's Biden who's getting himself into trouble.

Trump also supported a voiced support for David McCormick outside of his criminal trial. I love this because Trump is one step away from being handcuffed and put in prison. Right. I mean, at least theoretically, if he's found guilty and sentenced to prison, Trump's a criminal defendant and he's out there endorsing people as if the endorsements are useful. In this case, it's David McCormack, who, by the way, we're going to have a lot more to say about. So thank you very much.

It's a big day in Pennsylvania and we hope the people get out there and vote. It's important to vote to let them know that we're coming on November 5th. We're coming to you. We're coming to you. We're coming to you. We're coming to you. We're coming to you. We're coming to you. We're coming to you. We're coming to you. Thank you very much. It's a big day in Pennsylvania, and we hope the people get out there and vote. It's important to vote to let them know that we're coming on November 5th. We're coming big.

Today is the preliminary, but still it's very important. Maybe they'll think also about the very good person who's running for the Senate in Pennsylvania, Dave McCormick. And he's doing a good job. He's working very hard. Yeah, McCormick essentially discovered to be George Santos, 2.0, fabricating most of his family story. And we'll talk about that later. But really quite an endorsement, you know, during a break in your trial for falsifying business records to cover up an affair which would be damaging to your presidential campaign. You throw out an endorsement.

I don't know if it's a useful endorsement for McCormick, but he certainly got it. All right. Another aspect to the desperation that Trump is experiencing right now is that he really wants MAGA protesters from all over the country to show up in New York and protest in favor of Trump outside of his criminal courtroom, except it's not happening. Almost no one is showing up. And Trump is insisting we need people here. We need MAGA protests.

And the protesters just aren't showing up. Here is Trump again trying to get his supporters to come out for him. That's interesting outside for great Americans, people who want to come down and they want to protest at the court and they want to protest peacefully. We have more police presence here than anyone's ever seen. But blocks, you can't get near this. So Trump's argument is that gobs and gobs of MAGA supporters are desperate to show up and support Trump outside the courthouse, but they are unable to. They're unable to because you can't get close to the courthouse, except that happens not to be true.

It happens not to be true. Here's video from NBC News's Von Hilliard, who says, look, this it's it's just not true. It's just that the people aren't showing up. Here's video. So as you can see in the video, traffic is open. Vehicles are circulating. We see independent individual vehicles. We see what looks to be some kind of a dump truck. There was a trash. Oh, no, it's an NYPD truck. They do have one street block there. But as you

can see, traffic is circulating. People are parked. People are. It's that the supporters just aren't showing up for Trump. Our friends from the good liars, Jason and Davram actually showed up and found that there were just not any people there and they were not people weren't weren't interested in showing up to protest in defense of Trump. So at the end of the day, that is what is going on. It is not the case that everybody wants to show up in defense of Trump and they're just not allowed. They said, quote, This is obviously a lie. We were there yesterday.

There is a space to protest right across the street. And we counted five Trump supporters total six, if you count Andrew Giuliani wandering aimlessly looking for someone to interview him. So we see the polling numbers not going in Trump's direction. We see Fox News coverage very strongly defending Trump. But at least when you look at the interest in coming out and enthusiasm at supporting Trump outside the courthouse, there seems to be very little. What does it suggest will happen in November? I just don't know. But let's hope it means a complete and total rejection of Donald Trump.

One funny final moment from outside the courtroom yesterday at Trump's criminal trial. Trump doesn't like the temperature of the courtroom. Trump says it's freezing in the courtroom. Why is this so funny? Something about this I find hilarious. And they're keeping me in a courtroom. It's freezing, by the way, in a courtroom all day long.

Well, he's out campaigning. That's probably an advantage because he can't campaign. Nobody. Nobody knows what he's doing. You can't put two sentences together. But he's out campaigning. He's out campaigning. And I'm here in a courtroom sitting here giving sitting up as straight

as I can all day long because you know what? It's a very unfair situation. So the courtroom is cold. I remember when I was 18, I went to a taping of the Dave Letterman show and they kept the theater notably cool. And it was so people wouldn't fall asleep. Apparently, Dave Letterman or producers or whoever determined that when it's nice and warm, it makes people sleepy and they want the crowd awake and alive.

And so they kept it pretty cool in the theater where Letterman filmed. Since Trump has been falling asleep day after day after day, it seems reasonable to keep the courtroom a little cooler to maybe keep Trump awake. It doesn't seem to be working, though. Let's take a very quick break. We're going to hear from a sponsor or two unless you're getting the commercial free version of the show and then we'll be back. We're going to talk about Roe v. Wade and the continued fallout and so much more.

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They don't know what to do about this abortion fiasco that they have on their hands for November. And this really seems like it's going to be a big issue. So you have some Republicans saying that it's gone too far. No, of course, we need to preserve some rights for women to be able to decide with their families and medical professionals without elected officials in the way what is right for them when it comes to reproductive health and medicine. On the other hand, you have those who are really struggling to separate themselves from how we got to where we are. And one of those people is, of course, Donald Trump, because we got to where we are, predictably so, because Trump won in 2016, selected three

Supreme Court justices who then voted to overturn Roe v. Wade. And we are now where we are today. So every week Trump's taking a different approach. This week, it seems to be arguing that overturning Roe v. Wade is great and that everybody wanted to overturn it, even though we know that that's not the case. Here's Trump confused and visibly disoriented during an Action News exclusive. What that is, I couldn't tell you. And now he's taking the position everybody wanted Roe v. Wade gone, even though we know 80 percent of Americans wanted Roe v. Wade to stay.

But the abortion issue is taken has been really largely taken off the table because when we did this, we did what both sides, everybody wanted. Legal scholars wanted everybody. They wanted to take abortion out of the federal system and put it into the states. But it's not the case. In fact, I can't remember an election in which abortion was more of an issue than it appears to be right now. And if you look not at polling, but you look at how people have voted since Roe v. Wade was overturned, every indication that this is a disaster for Republicans now, whether it will ultimately be the undoing of MAGA Trump ism in November remains to be seen.

Trump is insisting everybody's thrilled that we repealed Roe v. Wade. You can't find a single poll that shows that. And we were able to do that when we terminated Roe v. Wade. Now, when the when you look at it and you look at what's happening all over the country now, states are voting. Ohio just voted all different, by the way. It's tailor made and it's really working out well for people. And they are very, very happy. Every legal scholar felt and felt for a long time. For 53 years, they've been trying to do it. Yeah. Trump, by the way, is also taking credit for this very clearly. I say, great, let's make it a referendum on Roe v. Wade when 80 percent of the country wanted Roe v. Wade.

And Trump is saying, I'm the one who got rid of it. It's really difficult for me to understand how that's going to work out well electorally for Trump. And here is Trump saying, I did it. I did it. He's taking credit on the abortion thing. And it's a very simple situation that has now been worked out for 52 years. They've been trying to get it back to the states.

I was able to get it back to the states. Now all of the states are making their decision. Yeah. By the way, in the same interview, Trump saying that this is something that they've been trying to do for 52 years and something they've been trying to do for 53 years. This is sort of like when he talks about the the flu. But he mentions the wrong year. We don't know why.

Why is it 52 and 53 in the exact same interview? I don't know. But please keep reminding the voters about that. I did it. He says, I'm the one who was able to get this done. Great. Only 20 percent of people wanted it done. And more Americans than ever believe that abortion should be legal in all states, in

most cases. Trump also may be at his most confused during this interview or statement. He talked about places like Philadelphia and Pennsylvania. There's one of many things he's destroying places like Philadelphia and Pennsylvania. Now look. Yeah, of course, Philadelphia in Pennsylvania. And then lastly, Trump reminding us in a poll of all of his friends, they think that he's not guilty in this first criminal trial and that the trial shouldn't even have been brought forward. Right now, if you look at what the legal scholars are saying and as I said, Jonathan Turley, McCarthy, Dershowitz last night,

they say there's no case. Yep. All of the legal scholars favorable to Trump and who have been going out of their way to defend Trump now for years, they're all convinced this is absolute and total nonsense. So we have to get the message out that it is Trump and MAGA responsible for Roe v. Wade being gone and what's going on in Florida and North Carolina and Texas and Arizona and in so many other places. It's Trump isn't even denying it. He's taking credit. Right. When Luke Beasley, our correspondent, goes to Trump rallies and he shows the Trump ists the the truth central posts and he says, look, here's where Trump said it.

And half of them go, I don't even believe it. It's probably doctored. We have Trump on video. Some of them will say it's a deep fake video. But here is Trump said it and half of them go, I don't even believe it. It's probably doctored. We have Trump on video. Some of them will say it's a deep fake video. But here is Trump saying it. I did it. Thanks to me. We have no more Roe v. Wade.

And let's encourage people to vote on that in November, because if this election is a referendum on Roe v. Wade, Trump loses and it doesn't have to be a blowout. Trump already lost in 2020. If you start with the 2020 map and you add on top of it, Trump getting rid of Roe v. Wade, which 80 percent of the country believes should have stayed. That's it. That's the election. Now, of course, it's all pending turnout. It seems turnout may come in a little bit lower in 24 than it did in 2020. A lot of TBDs, a lot of stuff to be determined here. But making this election a referendum on Roe v. Wade is not likely to go well for Trump. And here's the caveat. As long as voters understand why Roe v. Wade is

gone. Here's a sentence that has not been uttered in American politics, I believe ever. The Secret Service is creating a plan for how to protect former President Donald Trump in jail. Think about that for a moment. Let that sink in. ABC News reports Secret Service prepares for if Trump is jailed for contempt in hush money case. Judge Merchan on Tuesday reserved decision after a contentious hearing. It reads the U.S. Secret Service held meetings and started planning for what to do if former President Donald Trump were to be held in contempt in his criminal hush money trial and Judge Merchan opted to send him to short term confinement. Merchan on Tuesday reserved decision on the matter after a contentious hearing.

Prosecutors said at this point they are seeking a fine, not jail. Quote, We are not yet seeking an incarceratory penalty. That's according to District Assistant District Attorney Chris Conroy. But the defendant seems to be angling for that. Officials do not necessarily believe Merchan would put Trump in a holding cell in the courthouse, but they are planning for contingencies. There have not been discussions yet about what to do if Trump is convicted and sentenced to prison.

That's really the question, right? A few days in the local jail is much simpler logistically. Trump in a prison for years is a very different scenario. Now, as I've said before, I think if there is a conviction and is if there is sentencing, Trump's lawyers will be able to successfully argue for home confinement or some such version of that. If they aren't, the idea that Trump is going to end up in some hardcore prison is also very unlikely.

He would in all likelihood end up in some place similar to where Michael Cohen ended up. This is like worst case. I don't even think this will happen. But if it did, he would probably end up someplace like where Michael Cohen was, which, as he described to us, was where he specifically was quite limited in terms of security. And the logistics of Secret Service being there, I think, are simpler. But for those who are thinking Trump's going to be in, you know, some kind of supermax or something like that, that is not even a distant possibility. I think any prison time is a remote possibility.

And if it were to happen, it would be in someplace like Otisville or something along those lines. My opinion. OK, we will follow it. But still very, very interesting. I saw it reported that if Trump does end up in jail during the trial for contempt, that he might have to teleconference into court rather than being in there every single day, which if he were in some kind of prison garb during the teleconference, it would be incredible imagery.

I mean, truly incredible imagery. I don't expect that to happen. It's not what prosecutors are currently searching for. And then last note on this, Trump seems to think it would be really good for his approval and his polling if he were jailed for contempt. I don't know why he thinks that. I don't know if he's right about it, but he seems to think that if he were jailed, all of a sudden these supporters that haven't been materializing outside of the courtroom would all of a sudden materialize. I doubt it, but I certainly would be curious to find out.

So Secret Service making preparations for the hypothetical jailing of Donald Trump. Fascinating times that we live in. And in the meantime, the RFK Jr. monkey wrench that's been thrown into this campaign continues. So let's take a quick break. After that, I want to delve into it. If you've been thinking about getting a new mattress, Helix Sleep is where I would start. I've been sleeping on Helix mattresses for years now.

I recommend Helix to everyone, which is why I wanted them as a sponsor. If you don't want to take my word for it, Helix to everyone, which is why I wanted them as a sponsor. If you don't want to take my word for it, Helix has been awarded number one mattress by both GQ and Wired magazine. And one of the things that makes Helix unique is their sleep quiz. I didn't really know what kind of mattress would be best for me, but you do this short sleep quiz. You answer questions about your body type and your preferences, what position you like to sleep in. And Helix will match you with the perfect mattress for you.

So, you know, you're actually getting something tailored to your needs instead of going in blind like most people do. I got my Helix mattress designed to stay cool at night since I hate getting hot while I sleep. Shipping is always free. You get 100 nights to decide whether you like it. the David Pakman Show David Pakman dot com. check out. That's Helix Sleep Dotcom slash Pacman. Then use code Helix partner to zero to get 20 percent off and two free pillows. The info is in the podcast notes. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is increasingly looking like he is worse for Donald Trump than he

is for Joe Biden in this forthcoming election. And Donald Trump reportedly knows that despite what it is that he's saying in public. But it does explain why Donald Trump is now going right after RFK Jr. as a liberal and a leftist. Let's back up a little bit. Some time ago, it was conventional wisdom that Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s independent candidacy for president hurts Biden more than it hurts Trump. And the original reason was Kennedy is part of a historically Democratic family. He's known as coming out of the Democratic Party. He initially ran a primary against Biden in the Democratic Party. He hurts Biden more than he hurts Trump

over time as it became clear that his areas of focus aligned him more with Trump stuff about the deep state and vaccines and so on than they do with Biden. And eventually, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. exited the Democratic primary and said, I'm running as an independent. Things shifted. The pendulum swung towards the idea that actually it may be Trump who is hurt more than Biden by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s candidacy. And then it sort of swung back as the polling seemed to help. When you included Robert F. Kennedy, it seemed to help Trump by a couple of points. The pendulum is again swinging back as the polling now increasingly suggests. No, it may actually be worse for Trump than for Biden

that RFK Jr. is running. So let's look at this piece by piece. Here is Donald Trump during a recent interview starting to go right after RFK Jr. as a real extreme leftist. And the reason he's doing this is he doesn't want his own supporters to think that RFK might be a viable alternative to Trump. And part of the way that he did that on John Frederick's radio show Monday is to say he's far, far, far left. Not a good alternative to me.

What do you think of the RFK Jr. independent campaign and the Democrats relentless attacks on him? Well, I think he's a nice guy. I've known him. He's extremely liberal. He's more liberal than anybody. He's more liberal than the Green Party. And so I don't know. I, you know, I would imagine he'd not be good for for them. But you don't know how that plays out. He gets a certain, not many points, but he gets some. But they say he hurts Biden. I think, I'm not sure that that's true. I think he probably hurts both.

But he might hurt Biden a little bit more. You don't know. But he's got, you know, not a lot of points, but maybe enough points to make a difference one way or the other. But he's a, you know, not a lot of points, but maybe enough points to make a difference one way or the other. But he's a very liberal guy. So this is Trump acknowledging it's a little dicey. It's not clear who he helps and hurts more, but extreme liberal, far, far left liberal.

If you're a Maga or a Maga, Potamian, this is not a guy that you should be considering. Now, the way that the polling is increasingly looking is not good for Trump when it comes to the RFK factor. Let's look at a couple of these examples. There's a very interesting recent Marist College poll in the Marist College poll when it's Biden versus Trump. Biden has a three point lead. When you add Kennedy and the other third party candidates, Biden's lead grows from three to five. There are a few other polls like this, although not all of them point in the same way. For example, there's an Emerson College poll when it's head to head.

It's Trump plus three. Adding the third party candidates pushes Trump to plus four. So Trump gains a point in the Emerson College poll. The point here is it is very, very much unclear. It's an open question where this is going to go. And if you're Trump and the margins are expected to be small and it's expected to come down to just a couple of a few states and a few hundred thousand votes, you should be scared. Now, there is another interesting report from NBC News called Trump says RFK Jr. will hurt Biden

in private. He's not so sure what this article reports is that, quote, behind closed doors, Trump is less sure. A Republican who was in the room with Trump this year as he reviewed polling said Trump was unsure how Kennedy would affect the race, asking the other people on hand whether or not Kennedy was actually good for his candidacy. So Trump knows that there is definitely the potential here that RFK could cost him the election. Now, let's step back and think about this in a few different ways is in a general sense, there is no path for RFK to become president. When you hear from his advisers, they dream up

these impossible scenarios where RFK wins California. Now, if you've looked at the California polling in order for RFK to win California with the smallest possible margin, he would need to take roughly a third of the support from Biden and half of the support from Trump to get to that 34 percent minimum he would need. Remember, you could have you can win a state 34 to 33 to 33. That would be like the minimum margin for RFK. And so for him to get from where he is now in California to that, he would need to take roughly a third of Biden and half of Trump's support or vice versa, something along those lines. And so for him to get from where he is now in California to that, he would need to take roughly

a third of Biden and half of Trump's support or vice versa, something along those lines. It's not going to happen. So once you acknowledge the impossible to deny fact that the next president will be Biden and Trump, unless one of them dies and is replaced on the ballot, it's going to be one of them. Then you realize if you vote for RFK or Jill Stein or Cornel West or stay home, you are making it easier for Trump to become the next president. That's the reality. Now, on the merits, should RFK be more appealing to Democrats or to Republicans? On the merits, it is absolutely to Republicans. Trump's right to be scared in the sense that if your worldview is more like Biden or left of that.

Kennedy doesn't really offer much at all. You say, well, environmental policy, Kennedy's view on environmental policy, while he does talk about being very concerned about defending the environment. A lot of the solutions he proposed proposes are kind of free market, right wing, low regulation sorts of ideas which have been shown not to work. If you look at vaccines, there is some anti-vaxxer ism on the left, but the bulk of it right now is on the right. And RFK Jr. is certainly placating and kowtowing to that more Trumpy and anti-vax group. When you look at the Israel Gaza issue, where there are some on the left who say, I don't

like the way Biden's handled this. He hasn't been tough enough on Israel. And I want someone tougher on Israel. If you've heard Trump or RFK Jr. talk about the Israel Gaza issue, they're not going to be tougher on Israel. They're going to be more lax when it comes to Israel. So if that is your concern, there is also no real reason to support RFK over Biden. So in practice, thinking pragmatically, thinking realistically. Of course, no Democrats should be interested in the Kennedy candidacy, and it should really only appeal to

Trump people. However, the Kennedy name combined with the fact that at one point he ran in a Democratic primary against Biden, combined with the fact that there are some angry people on the left who aren't really thinking, wait a second, Kennedy's even further from my politics. Why would I go for go from Biden to Kennedy if I think Biden's not left enough? Why would I go to it doesn't make it. Some of them are doing so. It should hurt Trump. I don't know that it will ultimately turn out that way. Another group that will be critically important in the forthcoming November election is independent voters. And if we focus in for a moment specifically on independent voters, we find that independent voters are running away from Donald Trump

at a great, great pace. They aren't all running towards Joe Biden necessarily, but they are certainly running away from Donald Trump. Maybe Trump being back on television every single day with this criminal trial, saying absurd and ridiculous things, attacking witnesses, complaining that the courtroom is too cold, lying that the judge said he can't go to Barron's graduation, which the judge has not yet ruled on. Maybe him being back front and center is hurting him, especially with independents. And that does appear to be the way things are going. Newsweek reports Donald Trump's polling numbers plummet with independents. Let's dive into the details. In March, it was confirmed that Biden would be

facing Trump in November. Since then, a number of polls have sought to predict the results. Some suggest Biden's in the lead. Others say Trump is in the lead and will win. In reality, it looks neck and neck and things could still change. A crucial body of voters that the pair will need to court is independents. But according to Marist National Poll to a Marist National Poll of almost twelve hundred registered voters, this is a difficult group for Trump. Trump's support among independents has declined from 38 percent to 30 percent. That is a big change. Biden has increased his share from 33 to 34 among independents, and Kennedy's support has gone from 21 to 27. So this is going back to our RFK conversation and thinking about the dynamics of this election. We are seeing that

much of the dynamic shift in the election is not coming from Democrats or Republicans, but a lot of it is that many independents are saying absolutely no to Trump. But only some of those independents are saying, I'm going from Trump to Biden. A bunch of those independents have gone from Trump to Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. It's not a good sign if you're Joe Biden compared to, well, they're coming to me. But it is a sign that Kennedy is hurting Trump more than he hurts Biden. If you start with basically a split election and then Kennedy takes a bunch of votes from Trump, that is a path to victory for President Joe Biden. It is a path to reelection. So I think that that's an important

thing to consider. The other aspect to this is that there are folks who seem to have had their memories kind of blunted about how bad and humiliating it was to have Trump as president. And it will be a curious thing to see. What do people do if they are kind of retraumatized by Trump reemerging back onto TV every single day because of the criminal trial? And will it push more of them away from Trump as we approach the November election? When we think about Trump and the way that he has handled the presidency, but also the post-presidency period, it is really difficult to think that this guy is capable of running any kind of business. I don't want to do the insulting thing where I go, oh, I wouldn't trust him to run a food cart. It's like actually running a food cart requires a lot of different

things. People skills, cooking skills, sourcing skills, logistics, all these different things. I don't want to insult those who run food carts. They're interesting and complex businesses. I just don't think Trump has proven himself capable of running any kind of business endeavor organization at all. And giving him the keys to the country once again seems it's bizarre to me that after everything that's happened, anybody would say this guy should take care of a country. He should be in charge of a country. So a lot of critical groups here.

There is the question of are enough Democrats angry with Biden about Israel, Gaza, that they will sit out or vote for someone else? I don't think the answer is yes. There may be on the margins in Michigan, it might make a difference. It doesn't look like the election will come down to Michigan. Independence, certainly a group that could make a difference here one way or the other, depending on how they vote. And then also, as far as the RFK factor to kind of close out our discussion about that, there is the often stated belief considered a conventional wisdom, but I don't know how wise it is that when you look at how many people say they support a third party candidate

in April, that come November, that number is going to be much smaller and that when you see a poll that says, let's actually look at what the recent RFK numbers are, 8 percent in the Emerson College poll or 14 percent for Kennedy in the Marist College poll. There is a conventional wisdom that says come November, it will be a mere fraction of that. The number of people that say in April they will be voting third party is orders of magnitude bigger than the number of people that actually will. I think that this is doubly true when you have almost no ballot access. As at last we checked, RFK Jr. was only actually on one ballot. And I think he said he had the

signatures to get on three, four or five more. He may be on barely any ballots. And it is yet another obstacle to getting eight percent or 14 percent if people in most states show up and your name's just not there. And then you say, wait a second, can I write them in or not? I don't know. I'm just going to pick between Trump and Biden. That is likely to be yet another obstacle to getting eight or 14 percent. So as I've said, I certainly don't believe RFK is going to get double digits in any state, never mind win a state. Whether he even gets 5 percent is something that will depend on what happens over the next five and a half, six and a half months, as well

as does he eventually secure ballot ballot access in more states? It's not clear at all that he is going to do that. We have a voicemail number. That number is two one nine two. David P. Here is a caller who claims to be a legal expert and explains why the claim from Trump that he shouldn't be tried in Manhattan because there's a lot of Democrats is completely bogus. Let's listen to this. This is interesting.

David, you've been telling you lately. My name is Ben. I'm a fan. I am a judge. I was a prosecutor for 10 years. I was an assistant district attorney and an assistant attorney general for the state of New York. One thing that keeps occurring to me that I haven't heard anyone say is every time Donald Trump complains about the jury pool in New York, in Manhattan, about how liberal they are, concept that a lot of prosecutors incorporate in their opening statement is the concept of the jury pool exists where the defendant chose to either commit the crimes or have a nexus

where an appropriate venue would be brought. That's right. The analogy, the metaphor that's often given is more to go to the credibility of the witnesses. But when someone commits a crime on a pirate ship, the witnesses of the crime are going to be other pirates. So here, yeah, that can work. But also he chose to commit the crimes in New York County. So he's the one who essentially picked where the jury pool is going to come from. Thank you again.

You've been killing it. And I hope to listen more again very soon. On to the bonus show. All right. And of course, the world famous bonus show, the bonus show where you want to make money. Everybody else that makes money to fund themselves is bad. Next up for the caller. Yeah, this is a good point. And it's very simple. This is not strategic. It's not political. Why the trial is in New York. It's there because that's where all of the alleged crimes took place. It's very simple. And that's really all there is to it. We have such a good bonus show for you today. Larry Nassar's victims have reached a nearly 140 million dollar settlement

over the botched FBI probe. Is this the right outcome? We will discuss it. The FTC has voted to ban non-compete agreements. What will be the impact on many different businesses? And Bill Barr, Donald Trump's former attorney general, after saying Trump's a threat to democracy, after saying all sorts of terrible things about Trump, says he's voting Trump in 2024, even after Trump has been insulting Bill Barr personally. Why is he doing it? Oh, well, because the far left is a bigger threat. Does Biden represent the far left that Bill Barr is describing?

Well, that's only one part of the question. But we will talk about all of those stories and more when I am joined by producer Pat on today's bonus show. get instant access to the bonus show by signing up at join Pacman dot com. We make the bonus show available in audio or video formats. If you want to sit and watch it at home on your TV, you can do it. If you want to put it on your phone and listen in headphones as you ride the treadmill, certainly riding the treadmill, use the treadmill at the gym. You can do that.

All great options when you become a member at join Pacman dot com. It is the best way to support the work that we do. And remember that you can also get all of my children's books, including the newest one. Think like a voter. Wow. What a year for such a book. You can get all of the books at David Pakman dot com slash book. We will see you on the bonus show and I will be back with you tomorrow.