The David Pakman Show - 5/21/25: Economic update, habeas corpus collapse, a new Golden Dome

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

-- On the Show: — Where the economy stands after four months of Trump: unemployment steady, GDP dips, inflation down, consumer confidence collapsing — Trump lashes out during a press conference, lies about healthcare and groceries, praises the Pope’s nonexistent MAGA brother, and walks into a wall — Karoline Leavitt answers kids’ questions with a stream of propaganda and fantasy about Trump, climate change, and gold-plated Oval Office décor — Trump unveils a fantasy “golden dome” missile defense shield, falsely claims it’s already funded, and confuses reporters with rants about vaults and Russia — Kristi Noem embarrassingly fails a basic civics test on habeas corpus, illustrating why the Trump movement is so dangerous to constitutional rights — Republican Congressman Thomas Massie turns on Trump over the tax bill’s $20 trillion price tag — and Trump demands Massie be voted out — Elon Musk says he’ll scale back future political spending after Trump’s failures, and insists media falsely portrayed him as a Nazi — Elizabeth Warren obliterates IRS nominee Billy Long for not knowing if the president can unilaterally revoke nonprofit status -- On the Bonus Show: Sources contradict Qatar plan "gift" narrative, Justice Dept opens inquiry into Andrew Cuomo, controversy explodes over Jake Tapper's book about Joe Biden's decline, much more... 🥣 Graza olive oil: Get 10% off “The Trio” set with code PAKMAN at https://graza.co 🤖 Sponsored by Venice: Use code PAKMAN for 20% off a Pro Account at https://venice.ai/pakman 🛡️ Incogni lets you control your personal data! Get 60% off their annual plan: http://incogni.com/pakman 🩳 SHEATH Underwear: Code PAKMAN for 20% OFF at https://sheathunderwear.com/pakman  🐟 Wild Alaskan Company: Get $35 OFF with code PAKMAN at https://wildalaskan.com/pakman -- Become a Member: https://davidpakman.com/membership -- Become a Patron: https://www.patreon.com/davidpakmanshow -- Get David's Books: https://davidpakman.com/echo -- TDPS Subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow -- David on Bluesky: https://davidpakman.com/bluesky -- David on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow

Welcome to the show, everybody. One of the, I believe, most useful things that we can do, at least to create a baseline for evaluating a presidency, is to really keep track of a bundle of economic indicators. And we've talked about before how I, of course, have personal views and opinions and biases, but that at least as a starting point, I may have an opinion about gay marriage, for example. But at least as a starting point, it's a good thing to look at five, six, seven economic metrics and say, let's put aside our opinions about the president. Let's put aside for a moment our views on social issues and let's just track how economic

indicators have changed under the current president versus the previous one. In this particular case, what we're saying is how does the Trump administration's second term now four months in compare economically with what we saw during Joe Biden's presidency? One of the, I think, relevant things to understand about the tariff program is that the announcement of tariffs and then the suspension of tariffs all still, for the most part, not yet started, even though there are some tariffs on China. They really affect futures markets. The stock market is a futures market. The day you announce tariffs, especially if they are to take effect at some future point, nothing changes that day about the profitability of a publicly traded company, but its share

price may go down because it reflects beliefs about the future profitability of that company. So all of this being said, we can simultaneously understand how blanket tariffs on every country would be bad for American companies, small businesses and individuals, but recognize that not all of that takes effect right away and maybe isn't reflected in economic indicators. So that being said, where are we right now with regard to the primary metrics that we track to evaluate a presidency? Well, let's start with unemployment. The unemployment rate at the end of Joe Biden's term was four point one. Right now, four months into Trump's presidency,

it's at four point two. It's essentially unchanged. Now, Fed Chairman Jerome Powell and economists have said if the full scope of Trump's threatened tariffs become real and then the effect of that trickles down through the economy, you're going to get higher unemployment. We don't have it yet. Right now, unemployment is basically unchanged from where it left off with Joe Biden. OK, let's continue to inflation. A year over year inflation at the end of Joe Biden's presidency.

Let's say for 2024, which includes the last full month that Biden was president year over year, inflation was two point nine percent after three months, after four months, really under Donald Trump. That is now down to two point three percent. We're going to get we have the latest April number, rather two point three percent. We're going to get we have the latest April number, rather two point three percent. So inflation has declined under Trump. This these are just the facts. And I know that there are people who will be furious at me, furious about numbers. This is where we are. Is it the case that Jerome Powell, the Fed chairman and every serious economist have said, if Trump's

tariffs go at the full rate and they continue, it's going to drive inflation. Yes, that's absolutely true. Are we seeing it yet? The answer is no. Now, of course, anecdotally, or if we want to break these numbers down into constituent parts, we can certainly find some industries that are starting to see some additional price inflation. But so far, inflation is down now from where it was when Donald Trump took over GDP. GDP is a sign of concern. What we saw, the Q4 that Joe Biden was was president annualized to two point three percent growth for the economy in the first quarter of Donald Trump's second term, January, February, March of this year, we saw a decline in GDP of zero point three percent.

This was hugely significant. This was the first time that GDP declined in the United States in years. So although unemployment is basically flat, inflation is slightly down. We did see a GDP decline in the first quarter of this year. That's not a good indicator. And of course, one of the reasons for that is that anticipating tariffs, many companies stocked up on inventory, meaning they imported more, which contributes to the GDP decline in these numbers. OK, so that's where we are.

Interest rates, which Donald Trump promised to bring down. Typically, when we say where our interest rates, we look at the 30 year fixed rate mortgage at the end of Joe Biden's presidency. The 30 year fixed rate mortgage was at seven point oh four. Right now it's at six point eight one. So we've seen a modest, maybe about a quarter point decline, point two three, in fact, decline in mortgage rates under Donald Trump. Significant? Not really. A decline?

Yes, it's a decline. And of course, declining mortgage rates make homes slightly more affordable, although at the same time, mortgage rates and home prices tend to move in opposite directions. So you would expect to see a slight increase in home prices to account for the decrease in the 30 year mortgage rate. The stock market. This has been maybe one of the most critical ones, because after the announcement of the Liberation Day tariffs, quote unquote, Liberation Day tariffs, we saw significant market shakiness

and massive declines. As we spoke about yesterday with J.L. Collins, some said the United States is not going to recover these stock market losses for years. It could be a decade. It could be years. It's recovered. We the stock market is now essentially flat. The S&P 500 down less than half a point since Donald Trump took over. As as we spoke about yesterday with JL Collins, there are people saying this is what we call a dead cat bounce and the stock market will decline 10, 20, 30 percent from where it is now as the tariffs take their full effect. Others said that's it. It's over. The calamity is over. I have no idea. I don't pretend to know. I don't think I'm smart enough

to predict that. But as of this moment, the stock market flat. Now, some would say, given how bad things were looking, flats pretty good. Others would say flat means we're on track for zero stock market growth. In other words, if you take a point five percent decline in four months, that's like a one point five percent decline over the course of a year. It's not a disaster, but it's a little bit of loss. So it depends on your expectation. But I think there is upside, which is it looked like we were going to be down 15 percent this year.

And on the other hand, if we expect and desire an average of 7 percent stock market growth a year over the long term, we're falling very short of that. So interpret that yourself on consumer sentiment. That is an area that is significantly declined. At the end of Biden's presidency, consumer sentiment was 71. This is indexed to 100. It was so the numbers are sort of arbitrary, but the idea is think about 100 as being sort of neutral.

We went from 71 in terms of consumer expectations about the economy down to 57, one of the lowest numbers we've seen for consumer sentiment, which just reflects expectations about the economy in a very long time. And then finally, on gas prices, gas prices basically flat 311 a gallon when Biden left office, a 316 a gallon right now. It's a five. It's like a one percent increase in gas prices. If we compare it to what Joe what Donald Trump promised, which is massive 50 percent declines in the cost of energy and gas prices. Well, he's certainly falling short there. If we compare it to a massive economic disaster, certainly not one. So what is the empirical picture about the economy? Expectations are that people are very worried the economy is going in

the wrong direction. GDP decline, certainly a concern. Most other metrics basically flat. That's where we are. The next step is to analyze. And we're going to delve more deeply into that tomorrow. Well, we saw yesterday what happens when Donald Trump is asked real substantive policy questions and it's not good. He doesn't like it. Donald Trump was asked about this new big, beautiful bill. Can you guarantee that your voters will not lose health insurance under this bill? Intuitively, we know that they will if the bill comes to full fruition because of the cuts that are in the bill. If you think back to 2017, we all remember that when Trump actually had a plan, it was the plan Republicans decided not to go forward with in 2017 because

somewhere between 24 and 32 million Americans would have lost health care coverage over the following decade. So they don't have exactly a good track record with this stuff. But needless to say, here is Trump answering the question, can you guarantee no one will lose health insurance? And Trump's like, yeah, no, they won't. And then he goes on to talk about completely unrelated things. Waste, fraud, and abuse. Can you guarantee that your voters, who support you very much, particularly working class

voters, will not lose health insurance under this bill? Oh, they won't lose health insurance. Not only that, remember, I'm cutting drug prices by 85%. And right now, I'm saving it. I'm saving the whole thing because I did something that nobody was willing to do. Other countries pay a tiny fraction what we do. And I instituted favorite nations. We're now going to pay the lowest in the world. We're going to be the equivalent of the lowest country in the world. Notice how Trump gives only the most minor. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No one will lose health care coverage, but then very quickly moves on to the issue of the pharmaceutical prices that he's going to cut, even though it's not clear how. You might remember that the executive order he signed, whose legal mechanisms for reducing pharmaceutical prices we still don't understand, said 30 to 80 percent. Then Trump's been saying at least 50 percent. Now he even hyperbolically goes to 85 percent. What is the truth of it? We still have no idea what the mechanism is for reducing prices. But more importantly, Trump doesn't seem particularly concerned with the reality that indeed people may lose health care coverage under this plan. Trump then asked an

equally reasonable question. How is it a good idea to cut food assistance in this bill? You might recall, as I told you yesterday, that this tax bill includes additional requirements if you want to keep your food stamp benefits. it sounds like that would take food stamps away from people. Trump goes, no, no, no. More people will have food thanks to what I'm doing. What? You campaigned on lowering the price of groceries.

How do you justify cutting food assistance in this bill? Let me let me just tell you, the cut is going to give everybody much more food because prices are coming way down. Groceries are down. Eggs. You told me about eggs. You asked me a question about eggs. My first week you said eggs.

I said, I just got here. Tell me about eggs. And it was going through the roof. You know that eggs now way down. Everybody's buying eggs, groceries down, energies down. Gasoline is now buying. They're buying gasoline now for a dollar ninety nine. Now as we talked about earlier, Trump's regularly lying about gas prices.

The truth is that gas prices are basically flat. I'm not here to tell you they're way up under Trump. They're up about one percent. It's essentially flat. And of course, gas prices are not the big kind of adjudicating factor as to the state of the economy that Trump likes to believe they are. But on every aspect of this, my suggestion is let's bookmark and then double check. Is no one going to lose health coverage? Is no one who needs them going to go without food stamps or without food?

Because these promises seem completely not based in fact. Now, the topic of the pope came up and Trump weirdly says one of the pope's brothers. Well, kind of two. But one of the pope's brothers is a big MAGA guy. And I'd like to give him a hug. But I think I like him. Yeah, I like the pope and I like the pope's brother. You know, the one of the pope's brothers, actually both of them. But one in particular is a major MAGA fan. Did you know that he lives in Florida? He's got mega Trump and I look forward to getting him to the White House. I want to shake his hand. I want to give him a big hug. Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you. All right. So Trump really wanting to hug the brother of the pope. And then it really

got wacky where you might have noticed hanging around here in the background. If you're watching the clips is Maga Mike Johnson, the speaker of the house and Maga Mike Johnson, the speaker of the house, goes on one of these. They came to me with tears in their eyes saying that Trump got multiple standing ovations during his closed door meeting with House Republicans. Now, I actually don't know if it's sad or if it's true or if it's false. I'll explain what I mean in a moment. And I think this was a tremendous session. You may want to say something. Yeah, it was a great meeting. The party is unified. The House Republican Conference is excited. Multiple standing ovations. They love this president. The people back home love what

he's doing. It's historic and everybody understands the scope and the meaning of this. If we do not accomplish this mission, every one of you, all the American people are going to have the highest tax increase that you've ever had among the debt ceiling clip that's approaching and all. Now, remember that the real highest tax increase would be the blanket tariffs on every single country. That's really the area of concern. That's the primary thing that we should be worried about. But no, it's the standing ovations for Trump in a closed door meeting that tell us how great he is. Now, I'll be honest with you. What's more embarrassing if Republicans really did give Trump multiple standing ovations in a

closed door meeting where he just rants and gives his normal tirades. Or if Mike Johnson is lying about it, I actually don't know which one would be more humiliating in a sort of semi comedic interlude, although it's also darkly authoritarian. Trump gets a question he doesn't like from a reporter he doesn't know. So he does the only thing he knows how to do, which is to say, where do you work? And then to say, I don't know what that is therefore your question must not be valid here said you can add this not be happy after this speech

the simple what we see at the latest it was great great Tom isn't speech talk about who do you work for? No. Who? No. I don't know what the hell that is. Get yourself a real job. You know, this is one of those moments where I admit there's a funny aspect to it. And then you realize realize how darkly authoritarian it is and just how dystopian it is. The idea that the question's validity is based essentially on whether Trump knows or likes you or knows or likes the publication you work for rather than the substance of the question. Trump then going into

this auto pen conspiracy, you know, it's his new shiny object. It's the thing he's most obsessed with. The auto pen may disqualify everything Biden ever did for six months. And that was a very frightening thing because the Democrats have really hurt our country. And we are going to go into very much. I remember what I said, the auto pen. This government was illegally run for four years. Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you very much. And, you know, I, I would look at an espresso machine before the auto pen. If I thought that there was a machine that had rigged an election and a presidency, the auto pen maybe. But those espresso machines have me really, really suspicious. Trump obsessed with this at this point in time. And then finally,

as usual, at the conclusion of this, Trump wandering almost into a wall and a police officer rather than walking down the hallway until MAGA Mike Johnson pointed him in the right direction. Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you. Whoops. All right. So maybe Trump went to the officer thinking they're going to do another mugshot. I must be getting arrested again. Serious questions he doesn't like substantive questions he cannot answer. And after the break, after we deal with Caroline Leavitt lying to little kids, I know we will get to a proposal from this administration for a golden golden dome defense system, which I predict will never be built. Very quick break and then right back. I've been using a Graza olive oil for years, and I am super excited that Graza is now a sponsor of the show. Graza olive oil is always fresh. It's never blended. They use one olive from one region in Spain.

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read about membership and sign up at join Pacman dot com. Of course, you can also use the discount code coupon code. It will end soon. All one word, all lowercase to save about 50 percent off of the cost of your membership. You know, Caroline Leavitt, of course, is one of the most disgusting and regrettable actors in this second iteration of the Trump administration. But the depravity really knows no bottom. I was watching sort of with minimal amusement. I guess it was like bring your kid to the press briefing room yesterday at the White

House. And Caroline Leavitt took questions from the kids. And even when taking questions from the kids, and I don't even know why I say that, because to be frank, the questions from the kids were better questions, more substantive questions, certainly more salient and relevant questions than what we heard from the new MAGA briefing room that Caroline Leavitt held a few weeks ago. These kids asked relatively good questions. And even to them, Caroline Leavitt lies and distracts and distorts. I'll give you some examples.

How many people has Trump fired is the question. How many people has he fired? Thus far, actually, we have not had anyone fired with the exception of one individual who did leave their job. But we have a great team here so far. So, yeah, of course, thousands, tens of thousands have been fired by Trump through his deputized Doge and Elon Musk. That's the true answer. I guess if you pushed her, Caroline Levitt would go, well, in these first few months,

no one from the core White House team has been fired. But the reality is that Donald Trump has overseen one of the greatest mass firings in the federal government that we have seen in decades. These are kids. They are sort of stumbling upon real questions and the answers they get are bullshit. Quite frankly, here is the next question. What is Trump's religion? She lies here as well. Remember your question? Yeah. Okay, let's hear it. What's the president's religion? What's the president's religion?

The president is a Christian and he believes in Jesus. That is a lie. We as you all know, have understood for a decade now that this entire religious persona that Donald Trump has developed was developed solely and specifically to run for office as a Republican. It's that simple. That's all it was asked to quote anything from the Bible. He can't and visibly annoyed when at an event he goes to the crowd bows its head in prayer. And Trump recently kind of rolling his eyes and looking around annoyed. Every single one of these questions she is lying or distracting or distorting about. And I've got to give the kids credit.

These are actually pretty interesting questions. Next, the kid asks, who's Trump's favorite president other than himself, which, of course, brilliantly gets right to Trump's ego, maniacal narcissism. And Caroline Leavitt even acknowledges it. Yeah. Trump's favorite president is himself. Nora, go ahead. And Trump's favorite president besides himself.

Good question, because it would be probably himself. No, I think that perhaps he would say, John, you're the president. I think that he would say, you're the president. I think that he would say, you're the president. I think that he would say, you're the president. I think that he would say, you're the president. I think that he would say, you're the president. I think that he would say, you're the president.

I think that he would say, you're the president. I think that he would say, you're the president. I think that he would say, you're the president. I think that he would say, you're the president. I think that he would say, you're the president. I think that he would say, you're the president. I think that he would say, you're the president. I think that he would say, you're the president I think that perhaps he would say George Washington. I know he speaks very highly of George Washington, who was, of course, the first president of our great country. And he has his big, beautiful portrait hanging in the Oval Office.

You know, I think Trump's shown himself to be much more of an Andrew Jackson guy. But even the press secretary can't help but acknowledge he is his own favorite president. What is Trump's favorite room in the White House? And this time, the topic of Trump's impossible obsession, unending obsession with gold plating comes forward. Go ahead, honey. What is President Trump's favorite room in the White House? Favorite room in the White House? I think his favorite room in the White House is definitely the Oval Office because it's so beautiful and he has decked it out in gold.

It's now MAGA gold in there. And just a reminder that no matter how much money you have, you often cannot buy class. And Trump's obsession with gold plating everything is unending. Maybe the most substantive question, what is Trump going to do about climate change? A tough question for Caroline Levitt to answer because Trump doesn't seem to believe about climate change? A tough question for Caroline Leavitt to answer because Trump doesn't seem to believe in climate change. But let's see what she says.

Yeah. What is Donald Trump going to do about climate change? What is Donald Trump going to do about climate change? Well, that is a very good question. The president cares very much about our environment. He says all the time he wants to have the cleanest air, the cleanest water, the cleanest environment. She's saying cleatest. That's a weird, weird pronunciation for the world. He also cares very much about our energy independence and ensuring that we can keep the lights on

in our homes at a very cheap rate. So we want to make energy here in the United States because we do it cleaner and better than everyone. So and of course, the real answer is in that last part, he's not going to do anything about climate change because his big thing is let's burn all the fossil fuels we can cause that's America and that's freedom and that is the whole thing. So total confusion in the press briefing room as Caroline Leavitt can't tell the truth to anybody. But we have to keep it in context. And sort of less concerning is that than what happened just nearby the press briefing room in the Oval Office yesterday.

And I want to talk about that next. Donald Trump held an event in the Oval Office yesterday to announce the Golden Dome defense system. This is going to be a defense system that can shoot missiles down no matter where they come from. They might come from the other side of the planet. They might come from space. Here is Trump struggling to explain what this is, why we're doing it. Do you want your taxpayer dollars going to this?

Thank you for being here in the Oval Office, the great places of the world. As we make a historic announcement about the Golden Dome missile defense shield, that's something we want. And Ronald Reagan wanted it many years ago, but they didn't have the technology. But it's something we're going to have. We're going to have it at the highest level. I want to thank Secretary Hegseth, who's been fantastic, and Secretary Rubio and Space Force Vice Chief of Space Operations,

General Mike Gutland. I also want to recognize Senators Dan Sullivan, Kevin Cramer, and Jim Banks, fantastic senators, great talents, great political talents, and people that love our country. In the campaign, I promised the American people that I would build a cut-edge missile defense shield to protect our homeland from the threat of foreign missile attack. And that's what we're doing. Today, I'm pleased to announce that we have officially selected an architecture for this state-of-the-art system

that will deploy next-generation technologies across the land, sea, and space, including space-based sensors and interceptors. And Canada has called us, and they want to be a part of it. So we'll be talking to them. They want to have protection also. So, as usual, we help Canada do the best we can. This design for the Golden Dome will integrate with our

existing defense capabilities and should be fully operational before the end of my term. So we'll have it done in about three years. You know, if if I were a betting man and I'm not, I would say that this is not done by the end of Donald Trump's first term. Now, aside from the impossible promises on the timing, you know, we've got homeless veterans in this country. We've got hungry kids. And this is not a we can only do one thing at a time. But the common sense of such a defense system, you know, it's often analogized to Israel's Iron Dome. Israel is a country the size of New Jersey, surrounded by hostile countries. Whatever you think about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the geographical situation is completely

different. The United States, with Canada to the north, Mexico to the south, the Atlantic Ocean to the east and the Pacific Ocean to the west. It's just a completely different environment. And sure, you can say, well, if the missiles came from space, but this makes no sense whatsoever at this point in time, not something I want my tax dollars going to that. I can tell you this entire event was a fiasco. Trump was asked a great question. Did the military commanders ask for this? I'm sorry, before we even get to that. What about the cost of this thing? Isn't this just really expensive?

And Trump goes, no, I just got five trillion in the Middle East so we can afford it. When you first announced this idea, critics said it would be prohibitively expensive, potentially ineffective, and could trigger an arms race in space. What do you say to those critics about that? Well, they're wrong. It's about as close to perfect as you can have in terms of real production. I told you Canada wants to be a part of it, which would be a fairly small expansion. But we'll work with them on pricing. We'll be dealing with them on pricing. They know about it very much. They've asked to be a part of it. Actually, they've asked us to be a part of it. I think it's something that is great. If you can afford to do it, we can afford to do it. You know, we took in five point one trillion dollars in the

last four days in the Middle East. And of course, this is a lie. We did not take in any money in the Middle East. What Trump is referring to and what's being exaggerated and molded and pounded and stretched into a claim Trump can make. What we have are completely informal sort of ideas that the countries Trump visited might over the next decade make certain investments in joint ventures with the United States. So what happens is Saudi Arabia goes, yeah, you know,

maybe we'd be in for 600 billion over the next 10 years if you bring us a proposal and something actionable. And Trump goes, they just gave us 600 billion. Of course they didn't. Oh, they might do 1.2 trillion. Yes. If you put together the proposals and get approval and then that would be over a 10 or longer year period. So this entire we got five trillion thing is a complete and total farcical lie. Next relevant question. Is this even something that the generals asked for? Did military commanders say, let's do this golden, uh, golden dome defense system? Trump goes, well, I kind of suggested it. And they did say it sounds pretty good. Very protective.

I think you can rest assured there'll be nothing like this. Nobody else is capable of building it either. Was it something that military commanders asked you for? Did they ask you to do this differently? I suggested it and they all said, we love the idea, sir. They didn't exactly come to me and say, this is something we want, need or anything like that. But when I said it to them, what if we do a golden dome like Israel's iron dome?

They said, yeah, sure. Sounds good. We'll take it. Because as we know, military commanders working under a president regularly turn down stuff that the president is offering. Trump then got sort of disoriented and again started mumbling and jumbling. And he seems to think that the copy of the Declaration of Independence that he put in the Oval Office is real, which is really wild.

The U.S.A., by the way, very important. So it's something that I've been looking forward to for a long time. And I just notice you to Jim, you're standing there behind you is a very important document, Declaration of Independence. Right. And that was in the vault for many decades under right under this area. And balls with pictures on top of Abraham Lincoln. You see, that was the original Abraham Lincoln, the original Washington. And does everybody know who the middle was? General Grant. And so it's very exciting.

You look over here and above Ronald Reagan. Anyway, I still don't know if Trump is only pretending to believe that that's the original declaration of independence or whether he knows that that's the original declaration of independence or whether he knows that it's not. And he's just kind of lying to everybody. All right. We then get to questions about the Russian buildup of troops on the border with Finland and Norway.

Trump asked, are you worried about that? He goes, no, just just not worried. Mr. President, all Russia. Are you worried about the reports on a military buildup along the borders towards Finland and Norway? No, I don't. I don't worry about that at all. They're going to be very safe.

Those are two countries are going to be very safe. He's just not worried, folks. We don't have to worry about it. Everything's completely fine there. And then finally, Trump turns it over to Pete Hegseth and says, Pete, play us out here. And Pete Hegseth just groveling the number of grown men groveling around this man. Trump is wild to talk about this. How about you closing it out?

Yes, sir. I mean, like I said, without your vision, willing to say and do things when other people wanted to look away and pretend like the threat didn't exist or be focused on foreign adventurism, some other threat that we've been told is affecting us. When you looked at the data from Russia to the communist Chinese and other and their capabilities, what they're trying to do to supersede us and threaten us. How do we find the best innovators, the best military leaders, the best companies, tech companies? You mentioned open architecture. That's exactly right. Thank you, sir. So multiple companies can pour into this, sir. It's a layered defense. So if you miss that one, you catch at the next and it integrates existing technologies that can speak to each other. So it moves quickly while also investing in further ranging space based

interceptors. So our our enemies, our adversaries are going to pay a lot of attention to this, just like they have to President Trump from day one. Sir, you're defending the homeland, defending the American people. It's going to benefit my kids, grandkids, all of ours in this room. So thank you for your leadership. We're in charge. Thank you so much for your leadership.

You know, groveling aside for a moment, I mean, just pathetic groveling from Pete Hexeth. The idea that what Trump does is looks at data in detail, speaks to experts and makes nuanced, thoughtful, complex decisions. He's never once done that the entire time that he's been president. And we're now supposed to believe that thanks to the most unqualified secretary of defense in history, that that's how Trump is deciding what to do. Humiliating and pathetic and all over a golden dome system that simply will not be built while Trump is president.

That was his promise. Let's hold him to it. Does anybody in my audience believe we're going to see that in the next three and two thirds years? former partner can use these platforms to get details about your online presence, your home address, phone number, email, license plate, family members, financial information, even political views. Europe has laws that offer some protection. But in the US, the data is widely accessible. Even the FBI will buy this information from companies to spy on people without a search warrant. Our sponsor, Incogni, provides a solution. It takes just seconds to sign up and Incogni will send removal requests to all of the major data brokers, legally compelling them to get rid of your data. Incogni keeps you informed throughout the process. You'll get real time updates who has complied,

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one. We had a recent hearing involving Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem and Senator Maggie Hassan from New Hampshire asks the former South Dakota governor Noem, now secretary of Homeland Security, a very simple question. What is habeas corpus? In other times, we would consider this a rhetorical question or maybe a trick or leading question meant to know. We just don't think they know what it is. And Kristi Noem's answer in full confidence confirms that she doesn't know what it is.

She says that habeas corpus means Trump can do whatever he wants. Oh, boy, we're in trouble. Take a listen to this. Speaker 4 So, Secretary Noem, what is habeas corpus? Well, habeas corpus is a constitutional right that the president has to be able to remove people from this country. Swing and a miss. Let me let me stop and suspend the habeas corpus. Excuse me. That's that's incorrect. President habeas corpus. Excuse me. Habeas corpus, excuse me, that's incorrect. President Lincoln used it. Excuse me. Habeas corpus is the legal principle that requires that the government provide a public reason for detaining and imprisoning people. If not for that protection, the government could simply arrest people, including American citizens, and hold them indefinitely for no reason.

Habeas corpus is the foundational right that separates free societies like America from police states like North Korea. As a senator from the live free or die state, this matters a lot to me and my constituents and to all Americans. So, Secretary Noem, do you support the core protection that habeas corpus provides that the government must provide a public reason in order to detain and imprison someone. Not really. Yeah, I support habeas corpus. I also recognize that the president of the United States has the authority under the Constitution to decide if it should be suspended or not. It has never let us be clear. It has never been done. It has never been done without approval of Congress. Even Abraham Lincoln. That's right. The president doesn't have that right unilaterally. That's for sure.

Can we be surprised that they're violating court orders when they don't even know or are willing to admit what habeas corpus even is? This is not a presidential power and it's not about deportation. It's not even about immigration. It is the right of a person to challenge unlawful detention in court. It's the foundation of due process. You have to get an explanation for why are you being detained or you must be let go. It's been the law really since before the United States even existed. So when Kristi Noem says Trump has the right to use habeas corpus to

remove people, she's not confused. She's completely flipping it upside down. It's like saying the First Amendment gives the government the right to ban books. It's like, no, the First Amendment says the government shouldn't and can't be doing that. And yet these are the people that brag about defending the Constitution. They don't even understand it. Never mind defend it. So it's not a surprise that the Trump administration and its allies have been floating the idea of suspending habeas corpus because in their world, the government shouldn't have to explain arrests or detentions. Just throw people in jail or deport them.

No hearing, no lawyer, no court. And now we see why they don't know what the law says in the first place or they're not willing to acknowledge it. So, you know, I said at the beginning in other environments, what is habeas corpus would be a rhetorical question, a trick question, a leading question. This isn't really a gotcha moment. It's a window into how authoritarianism grows. You fill positions of power with people who are ignorant and loyal in various combinations. And suddenly, even the most fundamental protections that we take for granted, like not being disappeared by the state, start to become negotiable.

It's at the pleasure of the president that we have habeas corpus or don't have it. And so what we have here is a Republican war on civil liberties. That's not a secret. It's out in the open. They don't hide it. They say we want to detain people without trials. We want to remove people without due process, without hearings. Brian Kilmeade on Fox and Friends a couple of weeks ago said, guys, it's just not practical. We can't give hearings to all of these people. We just got to get them out of here. Judicial oversight, a court that says, here's what you must do to comply with the law. And we're going to ignore it. And so far they get away with it. And when you say, wow, there must be some legal theory behind this. You're doing so many things differently.

Give me the legal theory. They give you gibberish like habeas corpus means Trump does whatever he wants whenever he wants it. And the truth is they don't need to know how it works because they don't care. All they need to know is who are we targeting? And let's reverse engineer a harebrained understanding of the law to justify it. If we keep treating it as merely incompetence, and I said it's incompetence and loyalty in proportion. I don't know if we treat it as incompetence alone. We don't necessarily acknowledge the march towards the authoritarianism. And then we'll end up waking up in a country where habeas corpus really does mean whatever the hell Trump wants. Terrifying stuff from Kristi Noem and a nice job done there by Senator Maggie Hassan in explaining the absurdity of this.

All right. Let's go to one now that is not from a Democrat. OK, Maggie Hassan, Democrat. She supports habeas corpus. Kristi Noem didn't. But that's a Democrat against a Republican. Let's step back for a second. Let's hear from Thomas Massey, not the squad, not a disaffected Republican like Liz Cheney. This is a full blown libertarian, anti-spending, anti-tax Republican, Thomas Massey, congressman going nuclear on Trump's new tax plan. Why? Because it blows up the deficit. This is something self-described deficit hawks are against. Now, I don't agree with the principles that Thomas Massey believes in. But like Rand Paul over in the Senate, there are some Republicans whose principles

are actually consistently held and applied to what's going on. I don't really agree with it with Thomas Massey. I think his libertarian anti spending thing is completely whacked and doesn't make any sense economically. But he is identifying the Trump tax plan will dramatically increase the deficit. Therefore it's not something that he would be in favor of. Let's take a listen to what he had to say. The audio is not great, but I think we'll do okay. No, actually I've got a lot of people in the MAGA base who realize that we could have done this differently.

We could extend the tax cuts and paid for them, but instead we're not. I mean over here the people in favor of this bill say that under the policies of this bill we're going to add $20 trillion to debt over the next 10 years, which is $3.5 to $5 trillion more than would have been. All right. So there is Thomas Massey. This is why Trump said yesterday, Thomas Massey needs to be voted out of office. This is what it's really about.

Fiscal responsibility. Massey says he cares about fiscal responsibility. So does Trump. But the bill doesn't seem to care about fiscal responsibility as defined by them. Trump says he cares about the deficit and Massey says he cares about the deficit, except Trump is pushing a bill that will dramatically increase the deficit. And so what this is really about is loyalty, not fiscal responsibility. If you deviate even one iota from the Trump line, you dare to point out this is a budgetary dumpster fire. I'm so sorry, but it's a budgetary dumpster fire.

You're a traitor. You're done. You deserve to be voted out. And this is what happens in authoritarian movements. Dissent is punished. Even respectful, marginal dissent. The facts don't matter. Loyalty is the happens in authoritarian movements. Dissent is punished, even respectful, marginal dissent. The facts don't matter. Loyalty is the only thing that does.

Thomas Massey is not a moderate. He's not some center right moderate. He has spent years railing against government spending, even government spending that is stimulative because it does valuable things. Trump is now proposing massive tax cuts for the rich and no real plan to pay for it. So Massey goes, oh, that increases the deficit. I don't like that. And so Trump says, we've got to vote this guy out. So the next time that you hear Trump talk about how he's going to balance the budget or pay off the debt or whatever. His own party's deficit hawks, who I disagree with

philosophically, are saying Trump's plan is a complete and total fantasy. And Trump's response is shut up and fall in line. That's what they want you to do. And if you don't do it, you become persona non grata. Good for Massey, I guess, although it's his own political career that he's imperiling here. All right. Awesome. New sponsor to talk about Wild Alaskan Company. They do sustainable seafood memberships. I got one of these boxes and it is just phenomenal. The whole point with wild Alaskan seafood is that it's 100 percent wild caught. It's never farmed. It's from sustainably managed fisheries in Alaska, frozen at the peak of freshness and then delivered to you. They've got three curated boxes, the wild salmon box, the wild white fish box and the

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And one of the things that Elon Musk now says is, you know, I think I've spent enough money on political campaigns. I don't know that I'm going to be doing quite as much spending. And the why is what's most interesting. As you know, Elon dumped about 250 million into Trump's presidential campaign, about 25 million into the Wisconsin Supreme Court race that he lost. He is alienated nearly half the country who now see his brands, particularly Tesla, as toxic. They don't want anything to do with them. And here is Elon Musk explaining why he thinks his political contributions are going to be winding down. I think. In terms of political spending, I'm going to do a lot less in the future.

And why is that? I think I've done enough. Is it is it because of blowback? Well, if I see a reason to do political spending in the future, I will do it. There you go. He's done enough. And you know what? I agree. He's done enough damage.

He has done enough buying his way into an administration, wreaking complete and total havoc and then sort of notice how nobody talks about Elon anymore. Trump doesn't talk about him. Reports are that Trump's thrilled that he's gone. David Faber from CNBC also interviewed Elon Musk and kind of bottom lined it as was any of this worth it? Was that was the entire Doge thing at all worthwhile? My question is more about your work at Doge, for example. Was that worth it? You know, to the extent you are now, Elon, you were a somewhat divisive figure two years ago, but now you really are. I mean, there are people who love you, but there are a lot of people who dislike you, some of whom were your customers.

And I wonder, was it worth the undertaking at Doge and everything else that you've done and how outspoken you've been in terms of the things you believe in to antagonize so many potential buyers and or users of things like a robo tax? Well, I mean, unfortunately, what I've learned is that legacy media propaganda is very effective. You might be saying, wait a second, how does this answer the question? The answer is it doesn't believe things that aren't true. What would an example of that be? That I'm a Nazi, for example. And how many legacy media publications, talk shows, whatever, try to claim that I was a Nazi because of some random ham gesture gesture at a rally where it was.

You know, there's a bunch that could be said about this on first and foremost, it's was everything he did at Doge worth it and with no ability for introspection whatsoever. He just goes, you know, the media is so bad. The media just made me look terrible. But the substance of the question is, was doing all of this worth it on the merits and with regard to his brands and his businesses? And just all he can say is they

called me a Nazi and it wasn't true. And then he even goes on further and he goes, everybody's made that hand gesture. Every politician has done that. I try to claim that I was a Nazi because of some random hand gesture gesture at a rally where all I said was that my heart goes out to you. I was talking about space travel. And yet, Legacy Media promoted that as though that was a deliberate Nazi gesture when, in fact, every politician, any public speaker who's spoken for any length of time has made the exact same gesture.

And yet there's still people out there. And I've never harmed a single person. Well, listen, you know what, Elon? Now, you asked for an example. I wasn't even going to talk to you about it because, in fact person. You know what, Elon? I was. Now you ask for an example. I wasn't going to talk to you about it because in fact, I saw a number of people who are close to you and I called them afterwards and all of them to a person were like, no way, no way.

Of course. Oh, I called people over. They said Elon's not a Nazi. This misses the point so dramatically that that it is. It's beyond words. And I know that Elon Musk sometimes struggles to sort of really articulate how he feels, but I don't think he's struggling here. I think he's making the connection when when he is asked, was all of this worth the money,

the time, the cost to your reputation and all of it? His view is everything I did was awesome. But that damn media and people mean people on social media, it's just because of them that it ended up this way. If that's your ability to kind of look at what you did and and self critique and evaluate, if that's the extent of it, then we're in real trouble here. But I think as far as the experiment goes, what a failed experiment the entire Doge fiasco really was. Senator Elizabeth Warren put on a master class yesterday when speaking to nominee to be IRS

commissioner Billy Long. She went directly at an important IRS issue because we know that when the number one currency is loyalty and Trump's the guy nominating you, the expectation is you're going to do Trump's bidding. And Trump's bidding right now is strip organizations. I don't like Harvard University specifically strip organizations. I don't like of their nonprofit status. Elizabeth Warren goes right at Billy Long and wants to know, does Billy Long think it

would be legal to do that? She's prepared. He's determined not to answer. Listen to this statute. You've had three weeks to talk to the lawyers about it. So let's jump in. Mr. Long, is it illegal for the president to direct the IRS to revoke a taxpayer's nonprofit status? In the first place, he wouldn't do that. He's not going to come.

I've got to stop here. OK, I'm not going to interrupt again during this clip, but I have to stop there. Question, is this legal? Answer, Trump would never do that thing. We talked about John Yoo this week. Back when John Yoo was a lawyer for George W. Bush, justifying the use of so-called enhanced interrogation techniques, we know them as torture. There's a famous exchange that John Yoo has where he is asked during a similar hearing, if the president believed that it made sense and thought it was correct to do so. Could the president order a detainee to be buried alive? And John Hughes answer was, I know the president, the president would never do that.

This is a classic non answer. But Elizabeth Warren pushes through and it only gets worse. Mr. Long, please don't start down. Are we on section 72, 12 or 72? I'm at 26 USC 72, 17. Do I need to read it to you? Prohibits any member of the executive branch to request the IRS to conduct or terminate an audit on a taxpayer. All right. So is it illegal? I'm going to request the IRS to conduct or terminate an audit on a taxpayer. All right. So is it illegal? I'm going to follow the law. And if that's the law, yes. OK, but I want you. The problem is the if because even when the law is clear, people deserve due process. You've got to follow legal judicial orders. They reinterpret the law and they come up with novel interpretations or better non-interpretations.

So it's really not as simple as I'm going to follow the law. And Elizabeth Warren knows that. And she tries to push through. It is the law. Yeah. So I just want to be clear. Is it illegal for the president of the United States to instruct the IRS to remove a taxpayer's nonprofit status. Prohibits any member of the executive branch to request the IRS to conduct or terminate

an audit of the taxpayer. Is that a yes? I'd have to go to the lawyers at the IRS to tell me. No, come on. You just read it. I know, but I don't see the instance that you're speaking about in there. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see. Look, it says it shall be unlawful for any applicable person,

which in this case includes the president, to request directly or indirectly any officer or employee of the Internal Revenue Service to conduct or terminate an audit or other investigation of any particular taxpayer? Is it illegal for the president to instruct the IRS to removeprofit status from a taxpayer? I'm not going to have the answer that you need, and I apologize, but like I said... Why are you not having the answer? You've had three weeks to consult with lawyers. The statute is about as clear as plain English.

Well, if I say I'm going to follow the law, why would you need to ask me the question? Well, because I want to make sure that you understand what the law says. If you think follow the law means you just get to make it up on the spot. Of course, that's what they believe. Then, Bud, you don't get to be the IRS commissioner. I said I would. The point here is to follow the law as it is written. And I'm asking what I think is a pretty simple question. Can the

president of the United States legally tell the IRS to change someone's nonprofit status? I'm not able to answer these words and tell he's not going to answer Senator Warren. He's not going to answer. And she continued and she tried to break it down into its component parts. Let's go word by word. We were one step from going letter by letter. What is the meaning of is? And you're just not going to get it from him. Does it mean to say that a person, an applicable person here, that's the president, right? Yes. All right. Cannot directly or indirectly, right? Tell any officer or employee, that would be you, of the Internal Revenue Service to conduct or terminate an audit or other investigation of any particular taxpayer.

What part do you not understand here? It seems to be a non- He's shaking now. He's shaking. Profit, I don't see exactly what it refers to. Any taxpayer to start an investigation of any taxpayer. If it's illegal, I'm not gonna let that happen in my IRS. Is it illegal? That's the question. Me and you will be friends then. I wanna be your friend anyway, but.

I'm gonna be my friend. We will be on the same page. I'm gonna follow the law. And if that's point blank to the law. What do you understand the law to be saying about the president telling the IRS in his dealings with any particular taxpayer? What do you understand this law to be saying? I think it sounds like it's saying what you're saying, but I don't. I've got a little bit of this certainly not going to commit to it here. And I looked at I talked to an attorney that used to be at the IRS and now going to maybe be back at the IRS. And I'm sorry if I don't have the answer.

You mean the lawyers told you they couldn't understand this? The what? The lawyers told you they couldn't understand this? I didn't say that. Well, then tell me what part do you not understand? It says no person. And you said that's the president. We can go. She goes over it again. I won't subject you to it. But by the way, this image here of this Billy Long guy and the two gentlemen sitting behind him, when you say old boy network, it's hard. This is the I think this is what chat GPT would give you if you said, give me a picture of what an old boy network looks like. You're not going to get the answer. And Senator Warren's conclusion that this guy shouldn't be within a thousand miles of the

directorship of the IRS is absolutely and completely correct. The issue is not can they understand the words? They can understand the words. The issue is that they don't think that it applies to them. And so when they sort of fall back on this, whatever the law is, whatever the law is, I'm going to follow it. We know that that's not the way that these people operate. We've got a great bonus show for you today. We now have sources contradicting each other about the story that Qatar offered the plane as a gift to Trump. There is now a different story and it's an important one, which we will talk about on the bonus show. The Justice Department has also opened an investigation into Andrew Cuomo.

Andrew Cuomo is running for mayor of New York again. And there is the belief, the concern that this is all meant to hurt Andrew Cuomo in so running. And finally, on today's bonus show, we will talk about what else are we talking about? I guess it might just be that. I don't even know. It's a it's a great bonus show. Let me put it that way. You can sign up at join Pacman dot com. There are so many free ways to support the work we do. Subscribe on YouTube. Subscribe to the newsletter. Share our content Thank you so much for joining us.