The David Pakman Show - 5/6/24: Kristi Noem implosion continues, confused Trump can't answer questions

Episode Date: May 6, 2024

-- On the Show: -- Ali Velshi, author of the forthcoming book "Small Acts of Courage: A Legacy of Endurance and the Fight for Democracy," joins David to discuss immigration, idealism, democracy, and more. Get the book: https://amzn.to/44tb0Mg -- Republican South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem implodes in follow-up interviews about her new book, including collapsing in a pathetic word salad when asked whether she really met North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, as she claims in her book -- Kristie Noem, Republican Governor of South Dakota, says in her book and confirms during an interview that she believes President Joe Biden's dog should be killed -- Republican MAGA figures are increasingly admitting that they will not accept the results of the 2024 President election unless Donald Trump defeats Joe Biden -- Failed former President Donald Trump explodes in a tirade at a Republican event, calling the Biden administration the "Gestapo," and threatening World War III in a Truth Social post -- A confused Donald Trump is unable to answer the simplest questions, caught lying once again about the gag order against him, and blames a Jewish man for his prosecutions -- Democratic Congressman Henry Cuellar and his wife are indicted for bribery -- Donald Trump re-delivers cold, stale pizza to New York firefighters in the latest staged campaign event -- Right-wing Trump-supporting voicemail caller leaves a dangerous and disturbing voicemail -- On the Bonus Show: US job gains slow down as unemployment remains under 4%, President Biden expands health insurance access for DACA immigrants, January 6 Capitol police officer seeks nomination to Congress, much more... 🌱 Ounce of Hope: Get a THC Seltzer for just $5 at https://ounceofhope.com 🥦 Lumen: Get $50 OFF with code PAKMAN at https://go.lumen.me/pakman 🔥 Kasual App: Get 35% OFF at https://davidpakman.com/kasual 💻 Get Private Internet Access for 83% OFF + 4 months free at https://www.piavpn.com/David 🖼️ Aura Frames: Use code PAKMAN for $30 OFF & free shipping at https://auraframes.com/pakman -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

. I hope everybody had a good weekend. South Dakota Republican Governor Kristi Noem did not have a good weekend. If you thought her biggest problem this week was going to be bragging in her new book that she shot a dog dead on her farm when it was 14 months old. That is no longer the biggest problem. Kristi Noem has now been caught making up whole cloth that she went to North Korea and that she met North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un. Neither is true. She appeared yesterday on Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan. If you have an aversion to cringe, you may want to turn

this video off. She, Kristi Noem, is asked directly, did you meet Kim Jong Un? Your book very clearly says it. It's not alluding. It's saying when I met Kim Jong Un and the answer is obviously no. And Kristi Noem spits out an implosive word salad and sort of refers to the I had the book changed. Well, didn't you write the book? Did you forget you didn't really meet Kim Jong Un? This is the worst of the worst of the worst of these people. And this is what MAGA is. I met Kim Jong Un. Did you? We're looking into how that got in the book. And I asked my publisher right away to remove that. Right. But did you write it? Because you knew you didn't meet Kim Jong Un. Look at this. Maybe get the kids out of the room for this

one. It's too cringy. So you write about lessons learned in leadership and you bring up some specific incidents I want to ask you about. You talk about meeting some world leaders, and one specific one. Quote, I remember when I met with North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un. I'm sure he underestimated me, having no clue about my experience

staring down little tyrants. I've been a children's pastor after all. Did you meet Kim Jong-un? Well, you know, as soon as this was brought to my attention, I certainly made some changes and looked at this passage. And I've met with many, many world leaders. I've traveled around the world. You'll notice there's not a yes or no in here. As soon as it was brought to my attention, we went forward and have made some edits. So I'm glad that this book is being released in a couple of days and that those edits will

be in place and that people will will have the updated version. So you did not meet with Kim Jong Un. That's what you're saying. You know, I've met with many, many world leaders, many. Can you imagine? Hey, would would any of my viewers accept this sort of equivocation from me? Imagine if in my book I said, hey, I met Gandhi. And then in an interview, I'm confronted as a David. You wrote in your book that you met Gandhi.

You didn't meet Gandhi, did you? Listen, as soon as it was brought to my attention that my book says I met Gandhi, the book I wrote, by the way, as soon as that was brought to my attention, I didn't hesitate at all. I showed strength. I contacted my publisher right away and I said, we've got to change this. Oh, so you didn't meet Gandhi, right? I've met all sorts of different people. I interviewed all sorts of members of Congress. None of you would accept that. You would all rightfully cancel your memberships immediately. How is this acceptable? Leaders have traveled around the world.

I think I've talked extensively in this book about my time serving in Congress, my time as governor before governor, some of the travels that I've had. I'm not going to talk about my specific meetings with world leaders. Except she talked about it in her book and it was a lie. Now she won't talk about it. I'm just not going to do that. This anecdote shouldn't have been in the book. And as soon as it was brought to my attention, I made sure that that was adjusted.

So the book is not released until Tuesday. And so we're doing all that we can to make sure that those changes are made. And I'm going to continue to focus on what this book is and the blueprint that it lays out for the American citizen on all of the things in the background and stories of my life. But also what I think that needs to be identified in politics and was broken today. I talk about how broken the money game is, how broken it is that David, you say in your book you moderated a presidential debate in 2004. That's not true, is it?

This was brought to my attention just before publishing that my book contains an anecdote that shouldn't have been in there that I that I moderate. And I've I've participated in debates and I have moderated debates. But the anecdote that I moderated a presidential debate when I'm working with my publisher to figure out how did that get in the book? What that we've got consultants that are getting rich off of elected officials and then how fake some elected politicians are. Every single person in this country wants someone in elected office. That's that's a human being. All right. So long story short, she's the answer

here is, hey, Margaret, I didn't meet with Kim Jong Un. I don't know why I wrote that, but I wrote it. I wrote the book and it's in the book and it shouldn't have been in the book. That's it. It was a lie. It was untrue. I just delivered a finished manuscript for my book. And I just don't get how this happens if you write it right now. If the argument is, well, she she told some stories to a ghost writer who misinterpreted a story about her meeting Kim Jong Un and then put it in the book. And then she didn't realize it because she didn't read her own book. But they're not claiming that she used a ghostwriter, at least as far as I'm able to tell. Who's her publisher? Did she sign off on the manuscript? Did she read her own script for the audio book that she presumably recorded?

You would think that there are endless points at which this obvious lie would have been removed. And she even continues lying during the interview. She says during the interview, she's been to North Korea. She hasn't been to North Korea. She went to the DMZ. This comes up. She's just a liar. She has been extensive and covered decades. Right. But you never went to North Korea. In this book, I talk about the fact that, yes, I have been there. So you went to North Korea. You went to the DMZ and there are details, there are details in this book that. OK, so then she slips in. Well, I went to the DMZ.

The DMZ is a buffer zone of sorts between North and South Korea. It is not honest to say you went to North Korea if you went to the DMZ accessing it from South Korea. It's just not honest. And I know that there are her defenders who will say, well, she sort of did go to North Korea. She went to the buffer zone between North and South Korea. Once you step out of South Korea, you're kind of in North Korea. No, it's a unique situation. It's the demilitarized zone is it is a deliberate buffer zone where you were neither in South nor North Korea. She's just a complete and total liar of every of there is no way to make this anything other than she is a disgusting

liar. And by the way, in the book, she forget about telling the story that she killed her own dog. She suggests Joe Biden's dog should be killed. Let's talk about that now. After telling lie after lie about meeting or not meeting North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un, going or not going to North Korea, by the way, she didn't meet Kim Jong Un. She didn't go to North Korea. Kristi Noem doubled down during an interview with Margaret Brennan yesterday and suggested that, yes, President Biden's dog should be killed. She talks about this in her book saying, Commander, say hello to cricket. Cricket, of course, is the 14 month old dog that Kristi Noem did kill.

And she suggests that in her book, Joe Biden's dog should be killed. This came up during the interview with Margaret Brennan. Take a listen to this. You talk multiple times about it. In fact, at the end of the book, you say the very first thing you would do if you got to the White House that was different from Joe Biden is you'd make sure Joe Biden's dog was nowhere on the grounds. Commander, say hello to cricket. Are you doing this to try to look tough? Do you still think that you have a shot at being a VP? Well, number one, Joe Biden's dog has attacked 24 Secret Service people. So how many people is enough people to be attacked and dangerously hurt before you make a decision on a dog and what

he's not? She's she's arguing that a dog she has nothing to do with should be killed. Now listen, whatever decision is the right decision to make about Joe Biden's dog. Why is Christine Ohm again talking about killing dogs, other people's dogs in this case? Living at the White House. That's the question that the president should be held accountable to. You're saying you should be shot. The president should be accountable to us. What is what is the number?

And I would say about Republicans criticizing me, these are the same Republicans that criticized me during covid. I know they've criticized me when I've made other decisions in South Dakota to protect my state. And my state today is extremely happy and thriving. We're doing well. We've got thousands of people moving to our. If you're if you're like if your head just snapped because you're like, how did we get to this topic from the dog killing topic? It's because she just doesn't want to talk about she's just changing the topic. Because they love the opportunities that are here in the businesses that have come and how we've gotten to be a state that has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation.

Everybody has an opportunity for higher wages. We've got revenues and reserves. We paid off our debt. We've got a triple A credit rating. We've got a fully funded pension system. We were the first state in the nation to say you're not going to retract the book and to prevent China. By the way, she talks about how prosperous South Dakota is. South Dakota's average income is barely half of the average income nationwide. It's a disaster.

This book is a powerful book. It's an honest book. It's an honest book about blueprint for America, of what citizens can do here to take their country back. And I'm so proud of this book and what it will bring to people. I hope that they will buy it. They'll find a lot of truthful stories. And we talk a lot about what you can use as an example from Donald Trump on how he has continued to be a real person, been genuine and been honest to people. And that would be if you have to retract politicians or when they're part of it. I'm not I'm not retracting anything anyway. So yeah, she thinks Joe Biden's dog should be killed.

I read online somewhere when you're Kristi Noem and the only tool you have is a gun. Every problem looks like a puppy to her. And therefore she sees the solution, I guess, with Joe Biden's dog to shoot the dog as well. She is something special and not in a good way. Her personality is like a combination of no critical thinking skills, complete and total arrogance and condescension combined with a victimhood complex. And add to that a mild state of constant confusion. That's Christine Ohm. She has no business anywhere near the White House. She has no business being a governor. But alas, that is what South Dakota selected. So it's not a particularly

good week for Christine Ohm. And if Trump has even an ounce of sense and I don't think Trump has a lot of sense, but if he has even an ounce of sense, her shot at being VP is over. And according to insider reports, indeed, it is. So many people in our audience have become fans of our sponsor, Ounce of Hope. Ounce of Hope is a cannabis farm that ships CBD and psychoactive THC products to your door anywhere in the US. This is federally legal. THC, a THC, Delta eight and nine. They have edibles. And now you

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new website, which is working beautifully, made a major investment in that, including the member experience. We really are at your mercy and we are going to try to have the biggest possible influence going forward as we approach the election, an election that genuinely is potentially an inflection point in terms of the direction of the country. Sign up at join Pacman dot com. We do an extra show every day for our members called The Bonus Show. Lots of other great perks, including a commercial free audio or video feed of the show every day for our members hours before the show is made public. If you like to listen, you can do that.

If you like to watch, you can do that commercial free and hours earlier than the show is publicly released. I invite you to sign up at join Pacman dot com. We need to understand that they are already saying they're not going to accept the results in November if Trump loses MAGA red alert. They are admitting they are already setting up to reject the results of the election if Trump loses and they almost certainly will try to steal it again. And so what we need to do is ensure that they are not able to steal it. Here is Kristen Welker asking Senator Tim Scott, who, by the way,

in his own right, is vying to be Donald Trump's vice president. Unclear if he will be selected. She asks Tim Scott. Welker does. Will you commit to accepting the 2024 election results? And Tim Scott simply says Trump will be the next president. Not exactly a profile in courage, not exactly a clinic on clarity as to what you mean. This is what they're lining up to do. Four years of Joe Biden versus four years of Donald Trump. They're really excited to get back to the Trump years. And so I expect the election to be fair. And I expect Trump, Donald Trump to be our next president. In terms of what he said, he specifically said, if it's not, if it's not fair, as you're saying,

you have to fight for the right of the country. And just this week, he said that he won Wisconsin falsely, Senator. So, again, to the point, you voted to certify the election results of 2020. It's the exact opposite of what you said and did after 2020. Why would you want to be on a ticket with someone where there's such a fundamental difference? There is clear facts here. President Trump himself said he expects this election to be fair. He expects it to be honest.

And he actually has not said that. That's what the presidential candidate should expect. And I expect the exact same thing. And frankly, the American people agree with him. This is an issue that is not an issue. So I'm not going to make it an issue. Senator, will you commit to accepting the election results of 2024? Bottom line. At the end of the day, the 47th president of the United States will be President Donald Trump, and I'm excited to get back to low inflation. At the end of the day, it's tough when some days look like January 6th, 2021. That's a scary thing to say. Low unemployment. Wait, wait, Senator, yes or no? Yes or no. Will you accept the election results of twenty twenty four no matter who wins?

That is my statement. But just yes or no. Will you accept the election results of twenty twenty four? I look forward to President Trump being the 47th president. Kristen, you could ask him multiple times. You can ask as many times as you want, Kristen. I'm not going to give you an answer. Another pretext to reject the results. These people are dangerous. RNC co-chair Laura Trump said to Maria Bartiromo on her brown nosing Fox News show yesterday on the situation with mail-in voting in the state of Nevada. You can't have ballots counted after elections are over. And they are now setting this up as a pretext to reject the results in certain states. Saying for a while now that your priority is to

ensure a transparent election. And I see that the RNC and the Trump campaign filing a lawsuit in a battleground state to stop counting ballots past Election Day. What are you doing with regard to suing Nevada right now? Yeah, well, that's exactly right. You cannot have ballots counted Election Day. What are you doing with regard to suing Nevada right now? Yeah, well, that's exactly right. You cannot have ballots counted, Maria, after elections are over. And right now, that is one of the many lawsuits we have out across this country to ensure that just that happens, that we have a free, fair and transparent election. So in Nevada, as you pointed out, we are saying we want on Election Day that to be the last day that mail in ballots can be counted. Now, understand, there's nothing wrong with wanting all the ballots to be counted on the same day. But the idea that if it doesn't happen, it's fraud is ridiculous. And it is, again, another pretext that they're going to use to say,

no, we can't trust the results here. Now, I hate to break it to you. Even when everything goes normally and you have no early voting, ballots are counted after the end of voting. Let me tell you what I mean. When polls are open eight to eight in a certain state, the stroke of 8 p.m. comes. Not all the ballots are counted. The ballots start to be at that point tabulated results centralized and reported. So when the voting day ends at 8 p.m., even without early voting, you are you are literally counting ballots after the election day is over. Now, when it gets to midnight, it is a new day. But does that really make a difference? So my point here is they don't seem to have a problem with whatever state saying, OK,

voting is done at 8 p.m., but we're going to count ballots until 9 p.m. or 10 p.m. or 1159 p.m. And if it becomes midnight, why is that all of a sudden fraud or a red flag? It's not. And similarly, once you acknowledge, listen, even without early voting, we sometimes count ballots a few hours and it might get to be after midnight, technically the next day. Why is it evidence of fraud if mail-in ballots are also counted at the same time? Now, I have no issue if a state says we will have all of the mail-in ballots counted at the beginning of the

voting day. No problem. I that would be great. I would love results faster, even though many countries don't get them as quickly as we do. Some do, some don't. I would love results faster as long as they're going to be the right results. But the idea that the day's ballots can be counted for hours after voting is done, but somehow mail-in ballots being counted later is evidence of fraud. It's another pretext they're coming up with to try to steal the selection. And here's one more example. Here is Doug Burgum. Doug Burgum is asked, did Biden win? And he gives a very squirrelly answer. Do you believe Joe Biden won the 2020 election? I believe that Joe Biden won the 2020 election, but I also based on the number of votes are in. But I think that because of covid, there was a huge number of irregularities

because we changed a bunch of rules in certain places, in certain precincts, in certain states. And the number of mail-out ballots, not mail-in, we do absentee ballots in North Dakota. We do use, make sure we're verifying signatures. But when you're mailing out more ballots than there are people that are actually on the registers for the voting rolls, that creates a massive moral hazard hazard and then when you've got unmonitored drop boxes and a bunch of single bullet votes that only vote for one candidate i think all of us have to say is that the way we want to have elections i don't know what you're talking about so i think that 2020 was a special case i mean you agree with uh well single vote is a ballot that comes in where no it's very unusual to get that many

ballots where someone just votes for president and not for anybody else down ballot that comes in where no it's very unusual to get that many ballots where someone just votes for president and not for anybody else down ballot that's what i'm talking about it's actually not that rare a lot of people are clueless attorney general bill that is a attorney general bill bar said that there was no a significant fraud that would have changed the results of the 2020 election do you disagree with that or do you agree with that well again we're talking about what are you talking about? What happened before the ballots came in or after? All right.

So as you can tell, more of the same stuff. And of course, there were some rules changed in terms of voting. It was done legally. They claim it was done illegally. And regardless, they assume that every change helped Joe Biden. That also hasn't been demonstrated. So this all falls flat. But these people are dangerous.

They're going to try to do it. They're telling us they're going to try to do it. And we have to be ready. Let's take a very quick break and then we'll come back with more. Failed former President Donald Trump exploded at a fundraiser event over the weekend, referring to the Biden administration as the Gestapo or the Gestapo, as some like to say, and threatened World War three in a troth central post. This is not a man who is well, and this is increasingly a man who is struggling just to

get through the day. And you know what? If I were in his situation, I'd be struggling to get through the day as well. The New York Times reports at donor retreat. Trump calls Biden administration the Gestapo. The speech by Trump at an RNC fundraising retreat came during his criminal trial in New York. He faces a total of eighty eight criminal charges across four indictments, as we know, fresh from his criminal. Listen to this. Fresh from his criminal trial in New York, Donald Trump delivered a frustrated and often obscene speech lasting roughly 75 minutes at a Republican National Committee donor retreat in Florida Saturday, attacking one of the prosecutors pursuing him and comparing President Biden's administration to the Nazis.

Trump said those who are at Mar-a-Lago, these people are running a Gestapo administration and it's the only thing they have and it's the only way they're going to win, in their opinion, and it's actually killing them. But it doesn't bother me. Trump at this speech, based on an audio recording, also baselessly insisted that the various indictments against him and his allies in several states were being orchestrated by the Biden administration. Of course, there is no evidence of that whatsoever. He said before his indictment, he was gentler on Biden, saying, you have to respect the office of the presidency. And I never talked to him like this. But now the situation is very different. Donald Trump then went online to his increasingly failing platform, Truth Social

Central and said, quote, The primary reason for all of these terrible protests is crooked Joe Biden. He is unable to talk, unable to reason, unable to put two simple sentences together, unable to even climb three steps to a helicopter or the main stairs to Air Force One. In other words, his mind and body are shot. He is also and has always been a very dishonest man, a Manchurian candidate of sorts, receiving money for no apparent reason from foreign countries and blatantly prosecuting his political opponent in an attempt to win the presidential election of 2024. Understand that none of that is true. There is not a shred of evidence, an iota of proof for any of that. Trump continuing. This is election

interference only used by third world countries. Now we have the protests and crooked Joe Biden doesn't know what to do. Next will be World War Three and everything else. We are a nation in serious decline, a failing nation. And by the way, there's random capital letters all over this thing. But we will not be a failing nation much longer. Four years ago, we were a great nation and we will soon be a great nation again. MAGA 2024. So Trump and MAGA are increasingly hanging their hats on. The polling is is made up. The indictments are fabricated by Joe Biden. The country used to be great under Trump, but it no longer is. Biden can't think, speak or even

understand what day it is or that he is president of the United States. Everything that's being done to Trump legally is through no fault of his own, but because they are going after him for political reasons and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If you believe that that's the way the world functions, I understand why you would vote for Donald Trump. Now, how anyone would end up believing such absurd hyperbole and assertions. That's the scarier part of what we've been trying to answer. But if you believed all that and I don't know how you could, but if you did, I get why you would vote for Donald Trump. Donald Trump continues to lie about why he obviously is ultimately not going to be testifying. This is a favorite for Trump. Every time he's asked about any criminal or civil civil trial,

will you testify? He says, absolutely. I'm going to testify. And then he never does. Trump said on Thursday he's not going to be allowed to testify because the judge imposed a gag order on him. Now, of course, this is absurd. The gag order is with respect to the things Trump is saying outside of the courtroom. He obviously would be allowed to testify. But here is Trump Thursday saying I'm not allowed to testify because of the gag order. Well, I'm not allowed to testify. I'm under a gag order. I guess I can't even testify.

Now we're going to be appealing the gag order. I'd love to answer that question. It's a very easy question. The easiest question so far. All right. So Trump Thursday says, I'm not allowed to testify because I'm under a gag order. It was then made clear by lawyers and the judge. The gag order does not prevent Donald Trump from testifying.

That's ridiculous. That's not how his work, how it works. So the next day, Trump was asked when entering court, is the gag order stopping you from testifying? And Trump says, actually, no, it's not. It's not going to stopping you from testifying? And Trump says, actually, no, it's not. It's not going to stop me from testing. Thank you very much. No, it won't stop me from just the gag order is not to testify. The gag order stops me

from talking about people and responding when they say things about me. We have people saying things about me and I'm not allowed to respond. So this judge has taken away my constitutional right. OK, so now Trump says, no, actually, the gag order is not going to prevent me from testifying, except the problem is that that's exactly what he said previously. He says that he was not going to be able to testify because of the gag order. So now the gag order won't stop him from testifying, but he is obviously not going to testify. I would put money on that. He never testifies. Trump was asked, what was it like seeing Hope Hicks again, a top Trump staffer who testified and broke down on the stand in tears? They had to stop the questioning. What was it like? And Trump

actually says, hey, you know what? I have a gag order. I'm not supposed to talk about that. So I'm not allowed to comment on any of that. As you know, I'm under a gag order, which is very unprecedented. But I will say this, that the government, DOJ, et cetera, et cetera. And in particular, lately, this office of D.A., which is letting crime, violent crime run rampant all over our city. All right. So listen, he's sticking to the gag order. He's not going to weigh in on Hope Hicks because he understands he's under a gag order.

Good for him. Then it gets very whacked and wild as Trump goes on a completely paranoid rant as court wraps for the week. This was now after court. And he says that Trump is being sucked dry by things funded by Soros. We're pulling out the it's an old Jewish man that's orchestrating all of this. Are we really doing that? Yes, we are. The radical left. They've been after us for years and they've destroyed people's lives. They've gone out, hired lawyers. They've been with lawyers for years in suck drive. And it's a shame. It's a shame what they've done to this country. And it's a shame what they've done to a lot of great people that have been absolutely ruined and destroyed,

not only here, but all over. He's a vicious, vicious radical left lunatics. The D.A. here is sorry, sorry, is back. They shouldn't be wasting time on this. Look what they do to so many people. Right. No matter what is going on, there's always an old Jewish man somewhere controlling everything. In this case, it's Trump's prosecution. You know, anti-Semitism has become so normalized in society broadly, but also to a degree in the Republican Party that no one in the Republican Party will have any issue with the statement, despite the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever of George Soros's involvement. It is true that there is like one day out of everyone involved in Trump's prosecutions who was supported by an organization

who is partially funded by a foundation to which Soros donates like that's worth several levels removed here. But it doesn't matter to Trump. It's always what can I convince my followers of? And you can convince them that Soros is somehow involved in this. Trump says that the country is being destroyed by Democrats because the unemployment rate went from three point eight percent to three point nine percent. Thank you very much. They've asked me to speak a little bit about the job numbers and the job numbers just came out and they're horrible and they're very and I say that not happening. I say that very unhappy.

But the numbers are horrible. It's just these people are destroying our country. Here's another sign of it. So as you probably know, before I did, the job numbers came out there really, really low, really bad. Our economy is bad. OK. By the way, unemployment was six point three

percent when Trump left office. It's now been under four percent for the longest period in decades and remaining under four percent. Yes, it's true. The unemployment rate went from three point eight to three point nine percent. By the way, when the unemployment rate goes down, these people say you can't trust the numbers when the unemployment rate goes up, even just point one percent from three point eight to three point nine. All of a sudden you can hang your hat on it. It's evidence that the economy is a disaster. And then finally, Trump asked, are you going to testify or not?

And he just walks away. Well, there you have the president. All right. So Trump asked, are you going to testify? And he simply simply walks away. I'm not a betting man. If you're looking to play some bets, I would bet on the no. Trump doesn't testify. casual. Say goodbye to endless swiping. Casual adds an element of excitement by turning it into a game. Flip one of four cards, which give you a 50 percent chance of connecting with someone local

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change your IP address and make it look like your computer is anywhere in the world. So I can set it to Argentina to access the soccer matches. I can set it to the access really shines. Many VPNs are just too slow for streaming the buffering, the disconnects. It's a nightmare. It is super easy to use private Internet access. You turn it on with a single click. You're done. Works on your computer, tablet TV, Roku, game console, anywhere that you stream, and you can use it on all your devices with just one account. Get private Internet access for 83 and the David Pakman Show David Pakman dot com. Today we're going to be talking to MSNBC chief correspondent Ali Velshi, host of Velshi and also author of the new book Small Acts of Courage, a legacy of endurance and the fight for democracy. So great to have you on. I appreciate your time. It's a pleasure to be with you. Thank you. So to start with, I have so many

areas of history that I want to talk to you about in terms of these acts of courage. But your your family history is an interesting one that really ties in very much with the subject matter of the book. Can you just give people who may not be familiar with you a little bit of your family background? Yeah, my family left India in the late eighteen hundreds, like everybody in the Indian diaspora today. It was a time of sort of drought and poverty and struggle in India. So they went to where Indians could go, which was typically not Europe or North America. In the case of my family, they went from the west of India, from Bombay to South Africa. They saw that as a land of great opportunity, but it turned out that it was a land of, you know, remarkable sort of oppression and racism. And, you know, some bad things were happening there.

That's where my family linked up with Gandhi, also from the same part of India that my family was from, but that wasn't how they met up. They shared an accountant in South Africa, and that's how my great-grandfather and Gandhi came to be friends. Gandhi asked my great-grandfather if he would let my grandfather, who was seven years old at the time, join this new commune that he was starting, this new ashram that he was starting to sort of prepare people for this fight against apartheid. And so that's sort of the beginning of what happened. My family became anti-apartheid activists, which hurt them a great deal in business and in their life in South Africa.

They left to live in a more democratic place. They got to Kenya, where they got to see the birth of democracy in that country, the transition from colonialism to democracy. They lived there for a while, but they really wanted a more full experience for democracy and ended up in Canada, where I grew up. And they jumped into civil society and politics with both feet. And in doing so and in consuming the news to become better at that, I grew up thinking the news was really, really important. And that's how I got influenced into into doing what I do today. And so that's sort of my my family's connection and the degree to which that quest for democracy kept moving everybody just a little a little farther ahead each time. Yeah. You know, my so so I was born in Argentina and came to the U.S. and like you,

news and politics was just always part of the discussion. And just like you, I think it's probably what set me on this path. To what degree, if any, and I assume that the answer is yes, to some degree. To what degree do you think that your status as, you know, your family moved around and ultimately you grew up in Canada? Do you think this still affects you today and kind of in what ways? I think a few things affect me, given my family's migration. First of all, Canada is important to how that happened, because Canada just has a different view of immigration. Canada sees immigration as having saved it from being a provincial former colony into a country that punches above its weight.

So to this very day, the Canadian impression of immigration is different than the American impression of immigration. In both countries, the birth rate is such that it won't replace workers. Both countries really need immigrants. America is still the number one target for immigrants, no matter where they're from. America is developing a bit of a reputation about not digging immigrants so much because of some of the language that's used by Donald Trump. But it sort of just makes its way into our language, the way we talk about migrants and undocumented people. It makes us sound not like the most compassionate people. But my argument is that immigration is an imperative.

It's an economic imperative. It's a social imperative. It's a population imperative. Forget about thinking about it as charity, and forget about thinking about it as rooted in crime and security, and perhaps we'd do better. So that's one thing. Canada had universal health care. That influences my view on the fact that everybody should have universal health care, because most developed countries except America do have universal health care. And democracy really embraced my family as I grew up in Canada. So I have grown up with the idea that democracy is worth fighting for. Pluralism is worth fighting for. Politics is not all crooked and bad. But I love America. I mean, this is a country that not only do I love, but I'm interested in

fighting for its democratic survival, which to some people will sound like criticism of America, because that's the age we live in, that when you criticize governments, people think you criticize countries and their people. That's not true. I love this country. I think it is the greatest hope for the world. And I'm enthused by it. But my Canadian experience kind of helps me say, hey, how do we do this better? I've talked to my audience about how my approach to a lot of this social change is incrementalist rather than accelerationist. And supporting that is that when I look back at what I think are three of the greatest

areas of positive change in American history, you've got the progressive era, the New Deal era and the civil rights movement. And as I study those and I look at the things that happened in the five, 10 and 15 years before these periods of change. I see a lot of small wins, including who ended up on the Supreme Court and why. Well, you sometimes have to go back a little bit to get to the previous election or what were committees in the House and Senate working on at that time that may have laid the groundwork as an example. So studying this has led me to take more of a Ted Kennedy type incremental rather than accelerationist approach. When you talk about small acts of

courage, the language sounds incrementalist in the same way. But I don't want to read that into it if that's not actually your perspective. So I'm curious. I love that you did read that into it. I think that partially because the fact that you studied that, that's how you see it. And that's what is happening with this book when people read it. They're sort of relating their own experiences or their own academic lens to it. yours, and that is, don't worry if everything you're aiming to do doesn't succeed. In the case of my family, in the case of my grandfather, who was Gandhi's student, he died at the age of 58 after the government in South Africa had had it with his and our families agitating about apartheid. He died thinking it all failed. Gandhi left South Africa, by the way, in 1913, thinking it all failed. My grandfather would never have known that my family would live in two other democratic countries. He just wanted some change for their situation in South Africa. He wasn't looking for the whole enchilada. But he influenced a family that moved to other countries, saw democracy born,

participated in democracy. My father became the first Muslim and South Asian elected to major office in Canada. My grandfather could have never imagined that his son would do that. My mother and my sister were both candidates for political office in Canada. I am a journalist in America. I can't imagine he knew that I would ever end up in America or that I'd be a journalist or that I'd be writing this book or talking to you. So my point is that he planted seeds, the fruit of which he never enjoyed, the shade of which he never enjoyed, but someone will. You might inspire someone, you might cause someone to get the education that they needed to better themselves. My view is if you do the right thing, if you have a North Star and you do the right thing, it doesn't matter whether you're the one who actually changes or tips it over into success.

It just matters that you're doing the right thing and moving in the right direction, because collectively that does work. Then there are moments, as you described, that are really big, and you can be in those moments. But whether you are or you aren't, if we are in the incremental stage right now, you and I are both in the arena. Every American citizen is in the arena. We're in the fight. And when something massive changes five or 10 years down the road as a result of these incremental matters, we can say we were there when it started or we were there when it was growing or we were there when it was happening. When it comes to the journalism aspect of this and the kind of place and role that journalism have had over time in telling us about the fact that some of these things are going on, but also in accurately reporting the genesis of a lot of this stuff.

For example, Trump, in a sense, was the culmination of a process I think probably started in the 50s, late 50s with the civil rights era, which led to a whole bunch of other different things. Newt Gingrich and the radicalization of the House of Representatives in 94 plays a role. Bush, Obama, you know, it's this whole long thing. And so in the media space, there's often a question about like, what is the packaged story that we can tell to inform as best as possible, sometimes limited by the format of the programs that we're producing? But it seems like journalism has a big role in shaping our understanding of how we got

to where we are. Fair to say, I think it's the most important thing to say. In fact, I think without context, politics is horse race. And it doesn't make sense to people. Why is this happening now? When you look at literally everything that's happening now, pick anything out of a hat that's going on in today's news, there is historical context for it. That doesn't justify it, doesn't make it right, or doesn't make it wrong. It just tells you that virtually nothing comes out of thin air, whether it's college protests or the way the Republican Party is going,

the fact that people have thought that the next election is the most important election in American history at different times in American history, although this one might be, the concept of the erosion of democracy, both in the United States and around the world, this stuff doesn't come out of nowhere. The stuff that Donald Trump says at his speeches about immigrants being vermin, he didn't invent that stuff at all. So you're right. I think the context is important. I think part of it starts with understanding that starting points and starting places for belligerence in conflicts are different, and they can be valid. So whether you're talking about Israel-Palestine, when I was in Iran covering the Iran nuclear deal in 2015, every American thought Iran went wrong in 1979 with the revolution, and every Iranian thinks Iran went

wrong in 1953 when America intervened and stopped its Democratic election of a prime minister who was going to nationalize the oil. Both are true. Both can be true, or at least there are elements of both that are true. But how do you have a discussion with somebody who doesn't share your view on something when you don't understand the reason they think about this is because of many things that happened before or examples that they've got or history that they've got or family history that they've got. So I think that the danger in politics right now is it is very much a who's up and who's down situation. I think well curated, well researched, accurate and reliable information about why we are where we are in a lot of these situations that we find ourselves in would help our viewers understand how to have that discussion with other people, how to prepare themselves to vote and how to think about being participants in in a in a fraught democratic society.

On that note, and this is sort of this will be kind of our last general topic. You have been doing this longer than I have. And so you were in media during the transition into podcasting, YouTube, high speed Internet that allows the sharing rapidly of viral moments, Twitter, the entire thing. I kind of my presence was created by that. And so it went directly to that, whereas you kind of have seen the before the during and then the now. How would you assess the net net effect of all of this stuff in terms of the ability to disseminate accurate information, the difficulty in wading through the stuff that's not so good, the democratization for better or worse of a

greater diversity of voices, some of which happen to be vile and disgusting? Do you have some feeling about the net good, bad of it? Yeah. And you've really framed that very well. Let's start with the last part. The democratization of voters voices is good, that there's no question. There's a lot of garbage out there. And back when there were three networks and two national news magazines and things like that, your ability to curate garbage out, vile, violent, anti-democratic, racist garbage was simpler. But you also curated a lot of other stuff out that is uncomfortable. It's not vile, racist, obnoxious, sexist, misogynistic garbage, but it's political views that are not well thought out, and they're in our mix. I think the net of that remains positive, but I think we have to think about how we regulate that.

And I don't mean regulate with a capital R as government. I mean, as society, as media organizations, how do we deal with the fact that I can curate my information such that it comes from people who only share or reinforce my views? So that's unhealthy for me. That's unhealthy for society. There's more of it. And I just think it's a matter of how do we figure it out. It's like, there are more cars, you figure out a better transit system, or you figure out a better highway system. If there are more people, you don't blame the people who don't have a place to stay. You think that you've got a housing problem and you try and fix that. So I think we have an infrastructure problem that this has moved faster than we could think about, but it's much better. It's much better that there are people

who can write things and get them published without having to have a deal with a distribution company or work for a major corporation to get things out there. And I will say a lot of the important messages that exist today are counter to media control and ownership by corporate interests. There are just some things that we need to discuss that some corporate interests would not have you discuss. I'm grateful it doesn't apply to me and that my corporate bosses don't put the thumb on any scale about what I'm talking about. But the fact is, if I want to talk about how cutting the cord is better than keeping cable, I happen to work for a cable company. If I want to talk about things that are contrary to the regulations that my employers don't want, I have to have the freedom to talk

about that. So I think net-net, it's better to have more out there than less. I think we've got to learn how to engage in that dialogue. I think we've got to decide that we're a pluralistic people so we can manage different opinions. And we've got to figure out as a media infrastructure, how to help people be critical thinkers about what it is we put out there and how it is they consume it. This is heavy lifting, but I'd sooner take this than go back to narrowing our band of where we get our information from. Well, I'm with you on that because my show wouldn't exist if that was the case. We've been talking in part about Ali Velshi's new book Small Acts of Courage, a legacy of endurance in the fight for democracy. Thanks for your

time and congratulations on the book. It is my absolute pleasure. Thank you. Sweaters, candles, the dreaded bathrobe. Unfortunately, Mother's Day gifts can be a little predictable and boring, which is why an aura frame is the perfect gift to mix things up this year. Name the best digital photo frame by Wirecutter. Aura frames are guaranteed to bring joy to moms of all ages. I don't live super close to my parents, so giving them an or a frame with pictures of the baby was a perfect gift. Both I and they can add pictures to the frame using the or a app. No USB, just infinite cloud photo storage where it all happens seamlessly over Wi-Fi. Super easy. Not only will she be grateful, it's not another sweater. She'll also It was a delight to wake up this morning to many, many emails frame. The link is in the description. Terms and conditions apply. It was a delight to wake up this morning to many, many emails from some of our friendly right wingers in the audience saying, David, I knew it. A Democrat and his wife get indicted

for bribery and you are silent about it. You don't say a word because you cover for Democrats. Well, it turns out that this story broke late on Friday after we were done taping shows for the week. And then we don't do shows on weekends and it is Monday and I am doing the story. Now, I want to be super clear. I continue to be unclear as to how the audience wants me to say this name. It's in we're talking about a congressman, a Democratic congressman in Argentina. We would say his last name, which. In English, I try to anglicize it in a way that it would be understood. And when I say Congressman Henry Queller, people say, no, it's Quayar or I'm getting corrected by people who don't even speak Spanish. So listen,

the guy we're talking about, his last name is C-U-E-L-L-A-R. And if I pronounce it the way I would pronounce it in Argentinian Spanish, people say that's wrong. If I come up with a variety of anglicizations, people say that's wrong. So this is the guy we're talking about. OK, indeed, he and his wife have been indicted, accused for taking bribes from Azerbaijan and a Mexican bank. He and his wife, Imelda, were indicted on Friday. He has denied the charges. It all looks pretty damn bad. As it says here, The Washington Post reports $600,000 in bribes from an oil company controlled by the Azerbaijani government and a bank headquartered in Mexico, according to the federal indictment. The couple is accused of setting up front companies that entered into sham contracts with the bank and the Azerbaijani government.

The indictment said they have denied wrongdoing through their lawyer. There is a 54 page indictment. It is filled with details about what is described as a bold corruption scheme where the congressman allegedly promised to wield power to advocate for his benefactors. These are extraordinarily serious allegations. I want every conservative and left winger. OK, listen very carefully. I want every MAGA to open your eyes and your ears. Put on your listening ears as they say to little kids. I want every single person who says I'm biased and I only report on Republican wrongdoing and support Republican indictments. Listen with extreme detail. The evidence seems to support the charges. So this is a situation where the charges make sense. And like Trump,

they will get their day in court. The rules say he should step down from his subcommittee positions. So that's what he should do. What about innocent until proven guilty? He hasn't been convicted, but there are rules at businesses or in organizations like the House of Representatives in certain situations. If you've been indicted, even though indictments are just allegations, the rules of the of the legislative body are you should step down. And so from what I'm reading, the rules are that he should step down from his committee positions. These are the rules. And so, as usual, the allegations that I'm hiding the stories of alleged Democratic wrongdoing, they aren't true. It is true that I don't do shows

on Saturdays and Sundays. Most shows don't. Most shows are, you know, once a week or five times a week, weekends only date weekdays only. OK, I'm not hiding anything. And by the way, I never do. When it was Anthony Weiner involved in the sexting scandal, nobody that I knew on the left was defending the guy. We certainly weren't. When it was Congressman William Jefferson found with ten thousand dollars in his freezer. Remember that story? That's an older story. It was like from the beginning of the David Pakman show. Ten thousand dollars in his freezer. A Democrat, very, very caught, quite literally red handed, didn't defend it. So whatever allegation you think supports the idea that I only support the indictment

of Trump because of partisan bias and I hide and cover up with Biden, as I've said, bring me a shred of evidence that he did any of the things people are saying he did. And I will be right here with you saying, hey, it looks like he did something pretty bad. There is no evidence to date that has been presented. Oh, but he got money from his brother. And so, OK, and what's the crime? What's the wrongdoing? What evidence do you have of that? In this case, there is evidence and it is a very serious indictment. And like Trump, like Wiener, like whoever, they all should get due process. They all should get their days in court. Nobody on this program has been saying lock up whoever.

We're not saying lock up Trump or not. We are saying if the evidence supports indictments, do the indictment. And then if you have a guilty verdict sentence in accordance with the law and sentencing guidelines. So I wasn't hiding the story. It was a weekend. That's where we are right now. Donald Trump has been caught redelivering cold, stale pizza in a totally staged photo op to the fire department of New York. This incident, this event has been touted by right wing media and the lovers of Trump that Trump is a man of the people.

He delivers the pizza. Now it turns out that it is all completely and totally bogus, completely and totally bogus. We have video here. It's like, do we even really need the video? So here come the pizzas. The pizzas are being delivered. Pizzas come in.

Trump's not here yet. Secret Service is hanging around. The pizzas are being delivered. Pizzas come in. Trump's not here yet. Secret Service is hanging around. Everyone's waiting for Trump. You saw a couple of pizzas show up there. Then you see more pizzas. Looks like six more pizzas arrive just minutes later. So the pizza is now here. All right.

And then here is the critical moment where you are going to see the pizzas come back out. Watch carefully. Are you here? The pizzas are coming out front center of the screen. And you see this guy who back out. Watch carefully. Are you here? The pizzas are coming out front center of the screen and you see this guy who now is to the right. He's holding the pizzas and he's waiting to hand the pizzas to Trump. They've already been in the firehouse. Nobody's touching them. It's all staged. It's all pathetic. It's all ridiculous. You see the

pizza guy there holding them. And then eventually you will see that Donald Trump shows up. They'll kind of fast forward here. The pizza guy is now stepping forward. He's near the near the edge of the road. Here comes a NYPD vehicle. Here come Trump's motorcade is showing up. The pizza guy is at the edge of the road. Here is Trump's SUV stops right in front of the pizza guy.

And then, of course, as Trump steps out, the pizzas are handed to him. The SUV calculated there to block the view of the cameras so nobody can tell that they're actually handing the pizzas to Trump. The pizzas came out and then Trump will get out. They've transferred the pizzas to Trump. And here goes Trump. So the guy with the pizzas now goes back in. They've handed the pizzas off to Trump. Trump will get out. He's got the pizzas. There they are. Holds the pizzas,

hands them, holds the photo up. And there he is hinging forward at the waist in a stance that seems to defy gravity into the firehouse, he goes and hands the pizza off. So there it is a a lesson in staged propaganda. You know, listen, I don't I don't really expect Trump to go to the pizza place and pick up the pizzas. But this is all part of the same just ridiculous transparency. And then Trump very quickly leaving, by the way, pumping his fists, Walt now to next to him, the pizzas having faux delivered and off Trump goes. So you be the judge. Does this make Trump a man of the people? It's not completely clear to me, but handing cold pizza to firefighters. It is a campaign event. We can say that whether it's an effective one, I don't know. We have a voicemail

number. That number is two one nine two David P. And here's my question to you. Is this the most dangerous caller of all time? This is very weaponized stuff. Take a listen. boy, man, whatever you want to call yourself. You're a joke. You're a hack. You're a used car salesman for the Dems. It's funny how you don't say anything about Biden and how he mumbles, fumbles, stumbles, have actually spoken many times about how Joe Biden clearly is having age related modifications to the way he talks and handles himself.

We've even brought on medical experts to explain it to us. So how can you say I never talk about it? Even speak. But you'll say that about Trump. Let me tell you, bitch, you couldn't even carry the bucket of water for Trump. You're pathetic. You're a loser. And you're just going to flip-flop.

When Trump wins, it'll just be another show for you. You have done nothing for this country. You're not even a true American. Oh, whoopee. You came here from Argentina with your family. Yes. You've never served in the military. Ninety three percent of Americans have never served in the military.

Trump hasn't served in the military. So he's attacking me for not serving in the military in defense of his dear leader, Trump, who also hasn't served in the military and got out of it with a wacky letter about his heels. And your little minions can screen this call and do They do. All we need to do is play it, sir. But you are a loser. Flat out. You don't go anywhere to talk to anybody. You send your little minions. There's too many good people out there in this country.

Right. That are going to set this country straight again. Well they're welcome on this program anytime. And people like you better go hide. All right. Um, anyway, so that's a defender of Trump. Very vociferous and a powerful defender of Donald Trump. All right.

Today on the bonus show, we will talk about the new unemployment numbers. We will talk about Biden expanding access to health insurance for DACA immigrants. And we will talk about a January 6th Capitol officer seeking the nomination for Congress. All of those stories and more on today's bonus show. Don't miss it. It's a good one. You can sign up and get instant access at joinpacman.com.