The David Pakman Show - 6/18/25: US enters war with Iran, MAGA civil war bursts

Episode Date: June 18, 2025

-- On the Show: -- Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill, also the Democratic nominee for New Jersey Governor, joins David to discuss New Jersey's shift to the right in the 2024 election, her candidacy, housing and healthcare affordability, and more — Trump confirms the U.S. is at war with Iran, bragging that “we now control the skies”—after blowing up the nuclear deal and dragging America into a conflict he once claimed to oppose — In a series of deranged Truth Social rants, Trump calls for Iran’s “unconditional surrender,” threatens to assassinate its Supreme Leader, and posts like a kid playing Call of Duty — Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson explode on air over the Iran war, revealing the MAGA movement’s total collapse into infighting, bad-faith branding, and empty slogans — Trump’s State Department spokesperson praises him like a god-king while refusing to answer basic questions about the war—echoing authoritarian regimes, not democracies — NYC Comptroller Brad Lander is arrested by Trump’s ICE for standing in a hallway at an immigration court—marking a terrifying new escalation of political repression — Kristi Noem is hospitalized after visiting a shutdown biohazard lab with RFK Jr., and the official explanation is so vague it’s fueling serious questions about what actually happened -- On the Bonus Show: Social media overtakes TV as America’s main news source, Trump extends TikTok’s sale deadline again, Texas quietly kills its state-funded border wall project, much more... 💰 Kikoff helps you build your credit! Get your first month for $1 at https://getkikoff.com/pakman 😺 Smalls cat food: Use code PAKMAN for 50% off & free shipping at https://smalls.com 🍷 Naked Wines: Use code PAKMAN to get 6 bottles for $39.99 at https://nakedwines.com/pakman 💊 Chapter: Get Medicare help for free at https://askchapter.org/pakman 🛡️ Incogni lets you control your personal data! Get 60% off their annual plan: http://incogni.com/pakman ⚠️ Ground News: Get 40% OFF their unlimited access Vantage plan at https://ground.news/pakman -- Become a Member: https://davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe to our (FREE) Substack newsletter: https://davidpakman.substack.com/ -- Get David's Books: https://davidpakman.com/echo -- TDPS Subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow -- David on Bluesky: https://davidpakman.com/bluesky -- David on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow

Welcome to the show. The antiwar president taking the United States to war. That's where we start today. Remember that Donald Trump promised to be the antiwar president. He said the Iraq war was a disaster, even though that was only performative because he had earlier said on the Howard Stern show he would have gone into Iraq, too. But still, he said it was a disaster when he became a political candidate.

He mocked forever wars. He claimed that Barack Obama would bomb Iran just to win reelection. And he warned voters don't fall for it. This is what Obama's doing. And now in his second term, Donald Trump confirmed it. The United States is involved in war with Iran. Donald Trump posting to his very low energy social media platform, Truth Social, central, quote, we now have we now have complete and total control of the skies over Iran. Iran had good sky trackers and other defensive equipment and plenty of it, but it doesn't

compare to American made, conceived and manufactured stuff. Nobody does it better than the good old USA. The most important we're going to talk about a lot of aspects of this, but the most important fact here is that this is not an unexpected crisis that rose out of nowhere, not due to Trump's own actions. Trump created this to a great degree. But let me get back to that in a moment. Important historical context. We looked at these 30 seconds yesterday. Nice little montage from Patriot takes

on Twitter. Trump promising time and time and time again. He will be the one who keeps us out of wars. Speaking of World War Three, I'll keep you out of World world war three what would happen if we had a war we won't with me but you will have world war three i believe without me but we won't have i will be sure that world war three will not happen i'm the only one can say it won't happen but i stand here today and i'm the only candidate who can make this promise. I will prevent and very easily World War three very easily. There you go. Now, of course, during his first term, Donald Trump shredded the Iran nuclear deal despite

the fact that every major global power said Iran is not violating the deal. There was no evidence that Iran was doing anything but complying with the deal. And so that was a decision that isolated the United States diplomatically, which Trump loves to do. It also ignited a powder keg. Of course, Iran immediately resumes their nuclear program. Tensions rise. Diplomacy dies.

And the region starts to unravel. Now, you fast forward to this month. Israel launches this major strike on Iranian facilities. Iran responds with a barrage of missiles to Israel. Initially, the Trump administration tries to say this was all Israel. Secretary of State Marco Rubio even insisted U.S. has nothing to do with this. But then the narrative changes. Ted Cruz yesterday says to Tucker Carlson, we are involved there.

We'll look at that interview because that is really something to behold. All of a sudden, we are told, oh, instead of not being involved, we are involved. And the strikes. Whoa. And this is no no idea where that came from. The strikes worked. And all of a sudden, Donald Trump wants to get the credit for it. So it went from no involvement to supportive involvement, to coordination involvement.

And now it's we control the skies, peace through strength. I don't think so. More like chaos through ego or something like that. And it's a president who ran on ending wars and keeping us out of them. Now bragging about how dominant his involvement in a new conflict is. He's floating assassinations, which we will talk about a little bit later. And it really is leaving his supposed America first movement in a corner. The pro-Israel war hawks love it. The isolationist base that believed, I guess, believe Trump would end American involvement in the Middle East. They don't like it.

And the truth is that Trump didn't end forever wars and he may be getting us involved in a new one. He hasn't kept us out of conflict. He blew up the deal that was keeping us out. And of course, Trump's antiwar credentials from the first term are very questionable, bragging about the assassination of Soleimani, increasing drone strikes, allowing other conflicts to stir. And now he is all of a sudden posting military ultimatums, kind of like a bored tyrant who thinks Twitter and truth social are the situation. So listen, if you fell for the whole antiwar president thing, if you voted for the antiwar

president, you got the guy who is torching diplomacy, handing the Pentagon the keys and now saying we are dominating the skies over a country of around 90 million people. And again, it's not the generals, it's not the diplomats, it's not the contractors here who are primarily going to pay the price. It's people on the ground. It's civilians, it's bystanders and those who might get conscripted. So none of this projects strength. It's really a failure to do what he promised to do.

Dressed up now as we're so strong, we've got the fighter jets. We're controlling the sky. And by the way, I know this seems so quaint now, like David, the law, a due process authorization. It doesn't seem like it's legal for Donald Trump to unilaterally enter the United States into a war with Iran, at least not under the Constitution and existing war powers laws, because you might remember if you were around during the Iraq war era, if you were around when other engagements were being considered, only Congress has the power to declare war under Article one, Section eight of the Constitution. What nostalgia as we go back to this now as commander in chief, the president can respond to immediate threats or emergencies.

It's really hard to argue that what's happening in Iran is an immediate threat or an emergency based on the facts, even according to his own director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard's understanding of the situation. It's hard to argue that this is an immediate threat or an emergency. And the president is not allowed to launch a sustained military campaign or enter a new war without Congress saying we are voting for this. So legally, Donald Trump may be violating the Constitution, which he's used to doing, and the War Powers Act. Now, practically speaking, presidents have been pushing these boundaries for a long time.

You look at Clinton in Kosovo, you look at Obama in Libya, you look at Trump himself in Syria in 2017. We never had formal war declarations there. Congress rarely holds presidents accountable for that. They sort of vaguely rely on authorizations for use of military force passed after 9 11 or in the early 2000s. But none of that covers Iran. And Trump has explicitly confirmed now that the United States is seizing Iranian airspace

and participating in military actions there. So this is new active warfare. By any definition, we do not have a legal justification for it, but I know I I'm being so quaint. I'm acting like that sort of thing still matters. And of course, to an authoritarian like Trump, it doesn't matter. Let's now talk about Trump's broader statements about the war in Iran. A a gleeful Donald Trump. I don't really know how else to say it. The supposed antiwar president took the truth social yesterday to announce that the United

States is joining the war with Iran. Now, if I'm blunt with you, blunt or Frank, right. Or Joe, if I'm blunt with you, these are not the posts of a stable leader. These are more the rantings of a man who has dragged the United States into a new war and now thinks that he's the lead actor in a movie about it. So once again, let's go to truth social. We already looked at this first statement and then I'll give you the big picture of all of the statements.

Trump said we now have complete and total control of the skies over Iran. Iran had good sky trackers and other defensive equipment, plenty of it, but it doesn't compare to American made, conceived and manufactured stuff. Nobody does it better than the good old USA. So this was Trump's first post acknowledging we are now involved in this war. This is Trump at his Trumpiest. He's bragging about military hardware like he's, you know, selling a used jet at Mar-a-Lago. Forget the fact that this statement confirms U.S. involvement in the

war without congressional authorization. Forget that it directly contradicts his administration's earlier claims that Israel is acting completely alone. What matters to Trump is that we have the better bombs. The stuff is ours. We can flex. And historically, this has been the language that precedes escalation. You know, you think about former officials bragging about bombing Vietnam back to the Stone Age, for example, or Bush landing on the aircraft carrier with the mission accomplished banner. This is a dangerously toxic mix of insecurity combined with bravado that gets people killed. OK, so that's Trump's initial post. Then he puts up another one.

This is unhinged stuff. My friends, quote, We know exactly where the so-called supreme leader is hiding, hiding. He is an easy target, but is safe there. We are not going to take him out, kill, at least not for now. But we don't want missiles shot at civilians or American soldiers. Our patience is wearing thin. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Trump openly threatening to assassinate Iran's supreme leader.

He's toying with it. We know where you are, but we're not going to kill you for now. And it's sort of he's floating the idea of political assassinations on social media with coy, almost joking language and then going, but not for now, but not yet. In most other contexts, this would be a diplomatic crisis by itself, right? Casually musing about killing a head of state. You don't toss out kill in parentheses like a YouTube comment unless you're actively trying to provoke a war or worse, trying to look

like a warlord for the sake of looking strong. And notice the framing. Trump says our patience is wearing thin. This is an ultimatum of sorts. It's sort of like Cold War type rhetoric, but it's being issued instead of by trained diplomats behind closed doors. It's coming from the guy who was like, maybe I'll buy Greenland or take it by force. It's coming from that guy.

And then finally, Donald Trump with an all caps, troth post, unconditional surrender. Trump calling for Iran's unconditional surrender on truth social, no diplomatic negotiation, no nuance, just a blunt demand lifted from, you know, World War Two propaganda posters. So if you know anything about how peace is made, you would look at this and go, that's not how it's made. This is how conflicts spiral out of control. Truman didn't demand unconditional surrender on Facebook. There was no Facebook at the time.

Eisenhower was not issuing ultimatums by meme. And the deeper danger, of course, is that Trump isn't just escalating militarily here. He's really cornering himself rhetorically, because when you start publicly demanding unconditional surrender in this way, anything less looks like weakness. And you put yourself in a position you're setting the stakes so high that it becomes harder to have a diplomatic exit. So this is more than just unhinged posts. These are strategically catastrophic posts.

They are signaling to Iran de escalation is off the table. If you are Iran and you hear that, it would be logical to say, well, if that's if the escalation is so clearly off the table, we might as well continue to escalate. And then this all goes back to when the MAGA people elected a guy who sees military conflict as content, threatening it, saying you will do it, that you won't do it. We're not thinking here in the Trump administration about what is the cost in terms of lives? What about treaties?

What about regional stability? It's likes retweets, narrative arcs and being the big strong alpha. At the beginning of this, I told you Trump told us that he was going to keep us out of war. Trump supporters believed that he was going to keep us out of war. And now he's bragging about getting us into a war and he's enjoying it. So we are going to continue our coverage of this conflict after the break. The Tucker Carlson, Ted Cruz explosion, which is really a microcosm of the mega civil war over this and expanded coverage on The David Pakman Show.

Substack, get it at David Pakman dot sub stack dot com. Subscribe to the YouTube channel. We'll be back. building no sleep with Offer applies to new customers first month only subject to approval offer subject to change terms and conditions may apply points that based on Equifax advantage score 3.0 changes for kickoff users starting under 600 who made their first on time payment between January 2021 and March 20, 24 payment and credit activity outside kickoff can have an impact on your credit. Individual results may vary. I don't have a cat myself, but many friends and family do.

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And it is by far the most efficient and I would argue pleasurable way of supporting the show. We do an extra show every day for our members called The Bonus Show, which I invite you to check out today. This is truly one of the most entertaining but also most informative things that I have ever seen. Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson sat down on Tucker's show yesterday. Ted and Tucker are both Trump guys, at least publicly.

The reason I say at least publicly is Trump has previously viciously attacked Ted Cruz and his family, even calling his wife ugly. But publicly, Ted says they've made up and he's pro Trump. All right. Tucker publicly is pro Trump, but he has been caught privately texting things like I despise Trump. But as far as he says publicly, he still generically is a supporter of Donald Trump. So the topic of Iran comes up on this particular issue.

Ted Cruz is publicly all for the United States, Jordan joining the war against Iran. Tucker Carlson is not. And then the following happens. There is so much going on here. Let's take a look. How many people live around, by the way? I don't know the population at all. No, I don't know the population.

You don't know the population of the country you seek to topple? How many people living around? 92 million. Okay. Yeah, I... How could you not know that? I don't sit around memorizing population tables. Well it's kind of relevant because you're calling for the overthrow of the government.

Why is it relevant whether it's 90 million or 80 million or 100 million? Well, because if you don't know anything about the country... I didn't say I don't know anything about the country. Okay, what's the ethnic mix of Iran? They are Persians and predominantly Shia. Okay, this is... No, it's not even... You don't know anything about Iran.

So actually the country... Okay, I am not the Tucker Carlson expert on Iran who says... You're a senator who's calling for the overthrow of the government and you don't know anything about the country. No, you don't know anything about the country. You're the one who claims they're not trying to murder Donald Trump. No, I'm not saying that. You're the one who can't figure out if it was a good idea to kill General Soleimani and you said it was bad.

You don't believe they're trying to murder Trump? Yes, I do. Because you're not calling for military strikes against them in retaliation. If you really believe that- Okay, we're carrying out military strikes today. You said Israel was. Right, with our help. I've said we, Israel believe that- Okay, we're carrying out military strikes today. You said Israel was. Right, with our help. I said we, Israel is leading them, but we're supporting them.

Well, you're breaking news here because the US government last night denied, the National Security Council spokesman Alex Pfeiffer denied on behalf of Trump that we were acting on Israel's behalf in any offensive capacity at all. Well, we're not bombing them, Israel's bombing them. You just said we were. We are supporting Israel. I think you're a senator. If you're saying the United States government is worth a run right now, people are listening.

This is truly amazing to watch for a few reasons. Now, first of all, this is not a serious foreign policy debate that you just saw. OK, this is a branding crisis inside of MAGA. This is like a public relations meltdown between two guys who helped sell Trump to the American people. Trump's antiwar mask is slipping off. And now you've got people like Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson who helped build this monster trying to figure out what to do.

Ted Cruz wants war with Iran, but he doesn't even really know very much about Iran. OK, Tucker Carlson isn't offering anything real either. His big argument is you don't get to have an opinion on the war unless you know the ethnic breakdown and the population of the country is what is the bar now? Right. You get to comment on foreign policy if you pass a pop quiz. But the important thing here is, of course, this is a building civil war within MAGA. Last night I was on Chris Cuomo show on News Nation.

And before I was on, there were two magas debating pro going into Iran or against it. This is a building civil war within MAGA. But the bigger problem is that this is not about Ted Cruz or Tucker Carlson. This is what happens when you have a movement built on branding that is phrased as policy, but it's not really policy. And when you build it on branding, now the branding is crashing into reality. Trump was never antiwar. That was like a costume that he wore.

He pretended to be religious. He's not religious. He said that he's against abortion and pro life. He's never been against abortion until he became a political candidate. This is like waving around that Bible that he never actually read. It was whatever gets my base cheering for me. That's what Trump was willing to say. And when it stops being convenient, when it starts costing Trump politically, the branding vanishes. The anti war guy becomes we've got the best missiles and we're launching them.

And I might assassinate the supreme leader of Iran, the pro life guy who's suddenly praising dictators, the Bible guy ranting about blood and revenge on truth social. So what we have right now is Trump escalating the war with Iran. The people who helped build this illusion of Trump as the antiwar guy, Tucker Carlson, Steve Bannon, Candace Owens. They're scrambling now because suddenly the audience might notice none of this means anything. The movement that's built on these blocks they gave us antiwar religion. It's there was nothing there. It's vaporware.

And meanwhile, Americans don't seem confused. New poll out yesterday, only 16 percent of Americans support American involvement in Iran. Now, of course, that may change. There is this thing called the manufacturing of consent. And over time, you know, we not that many Americans wanted to go into Iraq. Then Colin Powell and his his team made a case about Iraq having nuclear weapons, which they didn't have.

And all of a sudden support for the war went up. It never got very high, but it but it did go up. So only 16 percent of Americans want to do this right now. That number may go up. But the important thing is that argument between Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson, it's really not a policy debate. It's what obviously happens when your entire movement is built on slogans. And one day people realize those slogans don't mean a damn thing.

Trump's not really antiwar. Trump just used that because he thought it was a way to distinguish himself from other Republicans to try to explain why he's uniquely the right person. But he never meant any of it, much like he doesn't mean just about everything that he says. State Department spokeswoman Tammy Bruce delivered a press conference about Donald Trump's war with Iran that would make North Korean news anchors blush.

It would be too much even for Russian state media. What she did asked tangible, specific, tractable questions about Trump's plans with Iran. Bruce goes, Trump is just so good. He's a guiding hand. We do what Trump says. He is the all knowing wise one. My editorializing. OK, but listen to the way she said it. Characterize the feelings of the president of the United States. We know that he is our lead. We know that he is the guiding hand. We know that he is one of a few who know all the details, and he clearly has a mission

and an agenda that is involved diplomacy and changing the world for the better for people. In the meantime, of course, things change. Our experiences change. He's making comments that are a reflection of what matters to him. And of course, what matters to the president matters to the State Department and every other department. I think that it is fair to say that his leadership and his reelection to the second term was because people here in the United States were tired of the status quo.

And what the world has seen is a peacemaker and someone who can make a difference. And that's what they're looking forward to. I can't tell if she's afraid of Trump or whether she's part of the grift. This has real 1984, you know, war is peace kind of vibes. And this just continued. This is supposed to be a substantive briefing about a major military engagement. The antiwar president going to war. And here is Tammy Bruce saying Trump is the singular person who will decide what happens now. Yes.

Humira. I understand your limitations, but I have to ask this. I know you do. It's your job and I appreciate that. I'm here to take questions, not necessarily always answer them. Yeah, yes, we can tell that he wants a real and not a ceasefire. So does the United States support or pursue regime change in Iran? Or are we just talking about dismantling Iran's nuclear enrichment?

And would that include United States helping Israel strike for? Well, I'm certainly not going to characterize what President Trump says or tweets for that matter. He doesn't need characterizing. He's one of the most transparent, one of the most clear individuals. These are all lies that we've we've known. I think that we can take his word for his word, but I'm not going to speculate on in a larger sense what that would mean.

That is up to the president. He is the singular guiding hand about what will be occurring from this point forward as he has been. And I think that that dynamic is pretty clear. He says he wants an end, as he has said about every conflict. Other than Trump being really awesome, Tammy Bruce is willing to say almost nothing here. Again asked, does the government want regime change in Iran? Such a relevant question.

What is the goal here? What what what would we consider acceptable? No, sir. Go a relevant question. What is the goal here? What what what would we consider acceptable? No, sir. Go ahead, Tam. You with the U.S. government like to see regime change in Iraq. I first of all, I'm certainly not going to remotely address that. It would require me to speculate or speak on behalf of the president, which I will not do. What we've seen, though, is is clear is months and repeated statements that all he wants is a peaceful world. His activity. And so she goes into this talking point coma.

And then finally, again, is there the possibility of diplomatic negotiations here? She also can't tell us that you heard from the Iranian signaling interest in continuing discussions. That is not something that I can speak to. Extraordinarily important question. What would get Trump off of the military action train and onto the diplomatic train? Tammy Bruce can't or won't say. Realistically understand that Trump doesn't know the answers to these questions either.

If Trump, you know, comes out on Air Force One, comes back to answer questions from the press and is asked, is there a path here for Iran to negotiate yesterday or the day before we played video where Trump goes, am I? Patience is wearing thin. I don't really want to do that right now. But if five minutes before Trump answers questions, someone whispers into his ear, be open to the negotiations, then Trump would go. I would, maybe, maybe. I don't know. Maybe Trump doesn't know the answers to the questions. So of course, Tammy Bruce isn't going to be able to answer, but this is a representation of what's happening behind the scenes. Antiwar president goes to war. What's the point? We don't know. Do you want regime change? We're not sure. Can we get back to negotiations? No.

Although maybe yes. This if this is how chaotic it is publicly, just imagine how insane it is behind the scenes. If you're like me, you may have found yourself standing in front of a massive wall of wine at the grocery store, clueless and unsure what to pick. Thankfully, I found a better way. of bottle from Naked Wines and it was great. No distractions, no screens, just a great glass of wine and unwinding at home. Uh, my girlfriend prefers the red wine. I prefer the white wine. Naked wines makes it easy to split a box between the two and the prices are unbeatable because they remove those retail middlemen and it lets the winemaker offer move at for just $39.99 including shipping that is $100 off your first six bottles. That's naked wines.com slash Pacman. Click enter voucher and enter Pacman for both the code and password to get six bottles for

39 99. The info is in the podcast notes. If you or someone you love is on Medicare, this is important. The Department of Justice filed a major fraud complaint against three of the biggest Medicare brokers in the country. These brokers pretended to offer unbiased advice while secretly steering seniors into plans that paid them the greatest kickbacks. at on I'm Call pound two fifty and then say Medicare or you can go to ask chapter dot org slash prosecutor, mom of four, Congresswoman and as of last week, the Democratic nominee to be the next governor of New Jersey.

It's so great to have you. You know, we had Governor Murphy on last week or the week before. And one of the things we talked about was what exactly is happening in New Jersey in the sense of in the twenty twenty four election, there was a big swing towards the Republican Party. He gave his thoughts on what he thinks explains that. But but I'd love to hear from you as someone who now is in the position of having to make the case to a New Jersey population that swung that way just six months ago.

What's your assessment of the New Jersey voting public and that swing that we saw? Sure. So obviously, after 2024 and deciding to run in the twenty twenty five cycle for governor, I really felt like it was important to understand why the state swung ten points to the right and what I needed to do to galvanize the base, because what we saw was largely that about 50000 more more people showed up for Trump, but about 500,000 people in the Democratic Party stayed home. So it really was a turnout problem in the Democratic Party that we saw. And I think that was because people were unsatisfied with our direction on the economy and economic

issues. And that is why I got to work on day one, laying out an affordability agenda, a plan of how I was going to be different and what that focus was going to be. And certainly, as I've gone around the state and spoken to thousands and thousands of New Jerseyans, because when you're running in a six way primary, and you're really, you know, pulling out all the stops to get in front of people, you're seeing hundreds of people a day

as I did up and down the state. And when you talk to people, you find here in New Jersey that a lot of the key about affordability is housing costs. That is the number one thing I heard come up. So in delving into it, you find that over the last five years, New Jersey home prices have gone up by about 50%. Nobody can afford to buy anything here. People lose bids. Young people can't afford anything. Older people can't move out of the homes

they raised their families in and downsize because that would be more expensive. Rental prices are through the roof. People are struggling there. And homelessness has gone up in the state as people are losing homes based on these high rental prices, for example. So with all of that in the mix, I got to work right away charting out how I was going to

build more, what it was going to take in my state with a lot of entrenched interests, a lot of layered regulations and permitting programs and more municipalities than California, what it was going to take to build houses here in the state and build out the future. And we laid out that plan while at the same time, strongly addressing the attacks on rights and freedoms that we're seeing coming from Washington, the attacks on our economy

that we're seeing coming from Washington. This reconciliation bill would harm just about, I mean, it would harm about 80% of families, whether your costs are going up, your power costs, your housing costs, your health care costs, all going up in this bill. Laying that out for people and fighting back against Trump and Washington. As I did that, we found that that was really, I think, addressing people's key needs here in the state. And we saw the largest Democratic turnout

of any primary that we've ever held in the state of New Jersey. So to give you a sense of scale, usually you would think your largest turnout event would be a presidential primary. But last year, 150, and fifty thousand people turned out. This year, it's going to be around eight hundred and twenty five thousand people in the Democratic Party turned out for this primary. Only about half that turned out in the competitive Republican primary. So let's dig into housing a little because you mentioned it and it's such a such a critical issue.

You know, when we look at the academic scholarship on housing and there's all these different levers that you have, of course, there's zoning, there's permitting difficulty, there's building affordable housing, there's rent control, there's all these different things. Something like rent controls, for example, seems to have a relatively limited, arguably temporary effect and also can decrease housing quality just to show how like every one of these things has another side to it that can be complicated when it comes to changing zoning to build more densely. A lot of the people that support that in theory don't want it on their block or in their backyard

or in their neighborhood. So as specifically as you can say, what is the path that in your first term you would immediately be able to work through to deal with at least some aspects of housing costs? Yeah. So I think to start with, we just have to start with the premise that this is a supply and demand problem. As we've seen, housing go up over 50 percent in the last five years, you look around the state, we have the second worst inventory in the nation. It's just really decreased. We saw a bunch of people moving in from COVID, from New York and Philadelphia moving into our state, but there's just not a lot of inventory. So we really have to build. And I think there are all these niche ways and all these interest groups that want to build a certain way or want to put in certain programs. But we've got to just build a really tremendous amount of housing

in the state. And I think this state, New Jersey, more than any state in the nation, has to deal with how we're going to do that because we're also the most densely populated And so we really treasure some of our open spaces. And we, you know, people deserve to have open spaces to go to. We saw that during COVID, how just taking a walk in a park could make such a huge difference to your mental state. And so having those gathering spaces, having those spaces in our state is also tremendously important. Which is why laying out housing, I think you start,

and what I would start with, is to have a community of people who are willing to take a step forward. state. And so having those gathering spaces, having those spaces in our state is also tremendously important, which is why laying out housing, I think you start and what I would start with is repurposing underutilized commercial spaces. So everybody in New Jersey can point out a strip mall that's vacant or an office park that is only 20% filled. So we really have a lot of opportunities to repurpose those. As governor, I would put in tax incentives to do just that, to repurpose those spaces. We also have to have a statewide plan of where we're gonna do this building,

and I think it should be hand in glove with transit, transit-oriented development. So as we look to the different transit centers in our state, building housing around that. And I tell you, you know, the last time we really envisioned transit in the state, I think was in the 1800s. Our rail lines are from that time in my town, Montclair, and towns along the rail line are what make up my district

in northern New Jersey. So we know that's gonna be a place to really grow economic benefits, but you also have areas like that that are underutilized. I think in its heyday, Trenton had about 190,000 people, and now it only has 80,000 people. You see similar numbers like that in Atlantic City, for example.

So there are areas of the state that very much, to your point, where there are areas that don't want a lot of development, dense development, I think we start with those areas of the state that very much to your point, where there are areas that don't want a lot of development, dense development. I think we start with those areas of the state that very much do want very dense development, have the transit to do that and can build out in the areas for the jobs that people would want to see there. I think we have a lot of opportunities that we are not taking. When we think about the role of governor, one of the realities is how do you work with the federal government in a variety of areas?

One of those areas that's extraordinarily pertinent right now, of course, is working with ICE, DHS, the deportations that are taking place, et cetera. When I interviewed New York Governor Hokel and she said, I am doing the absolute minimum only what is legally required of me and nothing else and directing everyone under my authority to do the same. The Trump rapid response Twitter account immediately weaponized that and said Governor Hokel is, you know, supporting immigrant undocumented immigrant crime and letting it run rampant and so on and so forth.

What's your sense or what's your plan in terms of as governor? How would you cooperate versus not cooperate and direct agencies to cooperate or not with the mass deportation programs that we are seeing from Tom Homan and Donald Trump. You know, we're going to follow the law here in New Jersey under my administration. That's both a lot and the Constitution. People need to have charges. They need to have process.

That is what the people of New Jersey demand. That is what the people of this country largely demand. I think you saw that on No Kings Day, the concerns that the population has with a sort of government under Trump that is running roughshod over our laws and our constitution and our court system. I think there is a real fear across the country about having military people in the street. That is inappropriate as a former veteran, as somebody who's a former federal prosecutor. I've worked with both the military and law enforcement,

except in the most extreme cases, having military in our streets like that is inappropriate. This is again, Donald Trump trying to turn this country into a country that simply follows his rules and not the rules of the constitution and the law and the court system. And that is something I will fight tooth and nail. I've I have taken more oaths than I can tell you to this constitution. I'm deeply committed to it.

And this president is running roughshod over it. In general, governors can direct state agencies and police not to enter into agreements with ICE, sometimes called 287 G agreements. Would you direct state agencies and police in that way? You know, I want to understand the agreements. But a demand on any of these agreements would be to follow the law in the Constitution. And from what we have seen, ICE is not always doing that. In many cases, they are picking people up without charges.

There is no process. We have had families calling into my office to try to find loved ones because they don't know what happened to them. And that is not gonna happen on my watch, and that is not something that I'm gonna be complicit in. I simply, I think that is illegal. I think it's unconstitutional,

and I don't think any American should be complicit in. I think that is illegal. I think it's unconstitutional, and I don't think any American should be okay with that. And I've served all over the world, and I've seen how countries like this run. And I think every single American should not think it could never happen to you, because this doesn't stop there. This, to me, is a president training law enforcement to follow his orders and not the dictates of the law and the Constitution. And that doesn't stop with simply picking up people who are in green cards, for example. This goes towards picking up people who are American citizens but speak out against the

government in a way that this administration doesn't like. And I think every single person should be very concerned when you start to see the erosion of constitutional protections, especially as they are being attacked by the president of the United States of America. So on the agreements, it would be a TBD, depending on what they say. Certainly, there may be times when there is an agreement with law enforcement right now, though. I would be very skeptical of any sort of agreement that doesn't include provisions to follow

constitutional protections, rights and due process. Last thing I want to ask you about, if we zoom out a little bit and just think about the Democratic Party in the next couple of elections, you know, New Jersey has one of the few off year elections, but then we've got 20, 26 and 20, 28 coming up. I think that there's a sense that simply pointing out all of the terrible things that this administration is doing and that Republicans are saying, go ahead either with my explicit consent or I'm willing to look the other way. Just pointing that out is probably not enough to do well in 2026 and 2028.

That's something more has to be offered. And that to a degree, maybe Kamala Harris didn't win because there wasn't more being offered that was salient to a lot of the American people. You sort of alluded to that in talking about the New Jersey swing, 10 points to the right. What do you believe that the Democratic Party needs to not only say but actually offer in terms of policy to turn the boat around in the next two elections? You know, look, I don't know where things are going to be in November.

They have gotten really bad, really fast. And I think there is every possibility that by November things will be worse, both with the attacks on rights and freedoms, but as importantly for people struggling to make ends meet with the attacks on the economy. I mean, we're going to see costs go up if this bill passes and everything from health care to home prices to power bills.

So all of this at stake. And so I think there's a possibility you could just against that. I don't know. That's never. I'm not in communications campaign. I'm working in elected office to deliver for the people of New Jersey.

So what I think every person who's running, and I don't think any Republicans doing this because they're all just kissing Trump's butt right now. But I think what every person who wants to be in any leadership role in elected office should do is to outline how you are going to deliver for the people you serve. And I think as governor, incredibly important to outline how you are going to make people's economics more secure and more stable in the things being attacked by the federal government and costs keep going up from Trenton. So I could very easily make a case that what Washington's doing is going to upend the economy

of New Jersey, the innovation economy, NIH, how you're going to pay for college because our colleges and universities aren't getting innovative funding. FDA, we have a pharmaceutical, a lot of pharmaceutical companies who are not sure how they're gonna bring the drugs to the future, to market. They're talking about chemotherapy. The rest, not sure they can bring them to market

because of this FDA. So I could tell you all that, but at the end of the day, I think we have to acknowledge that Trenton is not functioning as well as we want it to, or we would have the housing stock we need. We wouldn't see our power bills going up. Our health care system would be in disarray. So that's why I've laid out not just my plan to stand up strongly against Washington and continue to fight through the court system and elsewhere, the attacks we have. And are also laid out the affordability agenda of how I'm going to take on Trenton and I'm going to build houses and I'm going to drive power costs down and I'm going to fix our

broken health care system because that is incredibly important. Demanding excellence from our public servants and government is incredibly important to me as a lifetime public servant. And I think it's incredibly important to the people of New Jersey, as like I said, they're struggling to see what their future looks like in our state because it has become so costly to live here. We've been speaking with Congresswoman Mikey Sherrill, who's also the Democratic nominee to be the next governor of New Jersey. I really appreciate your time and insights. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I'm us in on the spam calls and the messages that you get. Try it risk free for 30 days and get 60 percent off an annual plan when you go to incognito.com slash Pacman. That's I N C O G N I dot com slash Pacman for 60 percent off. The link is in the podcast notes. You know, every time we call out Donald Trump's authoritarianism, the right calls it media hysteria. But I want to remind you that Trump admits he's looking for ways to defy the constitution and maybe even pursue another term.

Now if you don't know the bias behind your news, you might believe, oh, Trump's just teasing us. There's nothing here. Go to ground.news slash Pacman and see how media bias influences more than your perception from Trump's policy and ability to understand and undermine constitutional norms. I've been with ground news for years now because this is what they do. They expose the hidden agendas behind reporting sources and make it easy to compare coverage and understand critical issues.

Even better, if I'm reading a story on another site, the ground news browser extension will flag the sources, political bias, and give me other reports on the same story so I can verify the information. for description or scan the QR code. Well, this is where we find ourselves, a U.S. citizen, an elected official arrested by masked agents for standing in a hallway. Let me explain to you what's going on here. New York City Comptroller Brad Lander, by the way, please don't email me and say, David, it's pronounced controller. Both the pronunciations are acceptable. This is, of course, spelled C O M P T R O L L E R.

You can say controller or you can say Comptroller. What wouldn't be OK is Comptroller. That apparently is not OK. OK. The New York City Comptroller Brad Lander, currently running for mayor, was taken into custody yesterday by Donald Trump's ice during an immigration court appearance in Manhattan. What was he doing? He was accompanying an immigrant being detained peacefully.

Republicans are saying, here's another Democrat interfering with ice. But of course, it was peaceful. There was no shouting. There was no shouting. There was no pushing. It was standing in a hallway. But in Donald Trump's America, this is now considered obstructing. Asking questions is a form of assault. And the video, which we're going to look at here, shows federal agents in plain clothes

and surgical masks because it's anonymous fascism. We've been talking about the ice mask wearing, by the way, on the bonus show. You see the plain clothes, surgically masked agents grabbing Lander as he calmly asks, do you have the authority to arrest a U.S. citizen? Do you have a judicial warrant? Let's take a look. Let's take a look. Let's take a listen. I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, so Lander is now being manhandled.

I know there are people who are just listening and I apologize that some of these elements are highly visual, but Blender is now being manhandled with his hands behind his back by a number of plainclothes agents with surgical masks. They're not all wearing surgical masks to be to be totally accurate. You don't have the authority to arrest U.S. citizens. I'm not obstructing. I'm standing right here in the hallway. I have to see the judicial warrant by asking for a judicial warrant.

You don't have the authority to arrest U.S. citizens asking for a judicial warrant. All right. And then off he goes. And I fear I am terrified that this is only the beginning of this sort of thing. Now, ICE claims that he assaulted law enforcement and was impeding a federal officer. I think what they mean is they that that he managed to get in the way of a political performance. And to me, this is street theater with tactical vests and surgical masks. This isn't really the enforcement of any law. It's important to remember that Lander didn't break into a courtroom.

He didn't interfere with a trial. He did what he's done before, which is he's showing up and standing by people that are seen as little more than disposable under Trump's government. But Trump's ICE doesn't really want people like Lander involved. They want enemies. They want the photo. They want the footage of the Democrat in handcuffs.

And, you know, they want to turn every courtroom into a stage for this authoritarian costume party. And now the Department of Homeland Security is bragging about it. They said ICE acted heroically here. I didn't see any heroism in that video. And ICE is saying, oh, no one's above the law. But that energy when Trump skipped subpoenas and stole classified documents and ordered troops to crush protests without authority.

Where was the everyone must follow the law thing then? So what's really happening here is that Trump's ice has gone from deporting undocumented immigrants to arresting elected officials for asking questions, standing still in a hallway and asking questions. And the mayoral election, of course, is already underway. Who knows? I mean, listen, you could say, well, Lander is trying to use this to help himself in the mayoral election or ISIS doing this to hurt him or who knows most of the Democratic rivals

I saw condemned it. Andrew Cuomo said this was thuggery. Zoran Mamdani said ICE has no interest in the law, only in terrorizing. And that really all seems to be the truth. There was nothing here. No one's safety was safeguarded by arresting Brad Lander. This was not about the enforcement of immigration law. This is about fear, making officials afraid to intervene, making the public afraid to help and turning what is really just solidarity at the end of the day

into a crime, weaponizing the law against solidarity. And it worked. They got the shot. A U.S. official dragged away for daring to stand in the hallway. I expect. I guess that's the only real word I can use. I expect that we're going to see more of this. We are trying to figure out exactly why the secretary of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem ended up in the hospital last night. Now I'm going to tell you up front, because this administration lacks such transparency,

we are left to figure it out. We were told by the Department of Homeland Security that out of an abundance of caution, no big deal. Kristi Noam was taken to the hospital for an allergic reaction. The exact statement was Secretary Noem had an allergic reaction today. She was transported to the hospital out of an abundance of caution. She is alert and recovering. What was the allergic reaction to?

As of this moment, when I'm recording this, I know sometimes things happen and people go, David, you're late. As of this moment, we do not know what the allergic reaction was to. Was it food? Was it something else? We don't know. How long would the average person normally be hospitalized for an allergic reaction? Well, it depends for a mild reaction. Normally you don't even go to the hospital. You wouldn't be or if you do, you wouldn't be hospitalized. If you have a moderate allergic reaction, you might be under observation for a few hours, maybe overnight if you need treatment and and or need to be monitored.

The most serious situation like an anaphylactic reaction where you end up with low blood pressure and obstructed airway, something like that, you might be in the hospital one to three days. Now, very cagey messaging from the administration. And this leads to another key detail, which is, again, this is it's speculation born out of the undeniable reality that this is an administration that just hides everything right before the supposed allergic reaction. Yesterday, Kristi Noem had been with our FK.K. Junior at a biohazard lab which was temporarily shut down because of safety concerns.

In fact, a picture was posted, which we're putting up on the screen here by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s account of himself, Kristi Noem and Senator Rand Paul at the biohazard labs at Fort Detrick. This is a place where they study the most dangerous viruses, Ebola and many others. The offices of gnome Paul and Kennedy were all asked for comment about this, did not respond to requests for comment as of when we went to air today. Now this is obviously just speculation, but you put together a lack of information about the allergic reaction, a response that's not typical for an allergic reaction, the lack of transparency from this

administration. And then they were at a biohazard lab that was a problem lab. It starts to get potentially weird. Now it would be, listen, it would be true, Magda, that she becomes patient zero for some virus that wipes out humanity. OK, I don't believe that that's what's going on here. However, we know that they went to great lengths to cover up the severity of Trump's covid when he had it during his first term.

I believe that if either there was some leak from one of these labs that presented a risk to the public through someone like a Kristi Noem or she had just a health event unrelated to the biohazard thing, but not an allergic reaction, I think they would probably try to cover it up until they could cover it up anymore, no matter what. So we wish her the best. Of course, we may know more soon, hopefully. But there is something here where the lack of transparency only leads to more of this sort of speculation.

Now, on the bonus show today, speaking of speculation, social media is now the main source of news in the United States, according to new research that has just been revealed. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? It doesn't seem obvious to me that it's good. As far as tick tock is concerned, Donald Trump is once again extending the tick tock sale deadline for the third time, much like with tariffs. It's just this let's extend, let's extend, let's extend kind of way of governing. And then finally, with only 8 percent of its border wall built, Texas has very quietly,

very, very quietly defunded its state border wall program program falling 92 percent short of completing what they said they were going to complete. Oh, boy. We will have all of those stories and more on today's bonus show. Oh, the bonus show where you want to make money. Everybody else that makes money to fund themselves is bad. We're going to make a little money on the bonus show. Very triggering to Alex Jones. David Pakman dot com.

I'll see you on the bonus show.