The David Pakman Show - 6/9/23: Trump federally indicted on at least 7 counts

Episode Date: June 9, 2023

-- On the Show: -- Failed former President Donald Trump is indicted in the special counsel’s classified documents probe, marking the first time a US president has been federally charged -- Donald Trump responds to news of his indictment on Truth Social -- Fox News host Mark Levin throws a temper tantrum over news that Donald Trump has been federally indicted -- Caller talks about pronouns and trans issues -- Caller discusses the right-wing culture war -- Caller wants to know who is to blame for Ron DeSantis's rise to prominence -- Caller wonders if Trump can win the general election -- Caller asks what the other Republican candidates are thinking by running against Trump -- Caller wonders how long the right-wing culture war will go on for -- Caller asks if Hillary Clinton would have won in 2016 if she was a man -- The Friday Feedback segment -- On the Bonus Show: Mark Meadows testifies before special counsel, DeSantis's approval rating collapses, and much more... 🌱 Ounce of Hope: Get 25% OFF with code PAKMAN at https://www.ounceofhope.com/ ♨️ Bon Charge Sauna Blanket: Use code PAKMAN for 15% OFF at https://boncharge.com/pakman 👩‍❤️‍👨 Try the Paired App FREE for 7 days and get 25% OFF at https://paired.com/pakman 🧻 Reel Paper: Code PAKMAN for 30% OFF + free shipping at https://reelpaper.com/pakman 🖼️ Aura Frames: Code PAKMAN for $30 off + free shipping at https://auraframes.com/pakman -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

. Failed former President Donald Trump, once arrested, twice impeached, has been indicted a second time, this time federally. He will be arrested and booked on Tuesday in Miami at 3 p.m. Eastern Time. Ladies and gentlemen, it is happening and it is even more unprecedented if you can if you can even say such a such a thing. Wow. What a day.

What a night. CNBC report. Ex-president's arraignment comes day before his birthday. Donald Trump has become the first U.S. president, former or otherwise, to be indicted on federal criminal charges. Trump announced in Thursday night posts on his truth social platform that prosecutors notified his attorneys he had been indicted. NBC News confirmed soon after that he faces seven charges, including making false statements, conspiracy to obstruct, according to Trump's own lawyer, James Trustee. The charges also include willfully retaining documents in violation of the Espionage Act. Trump, the leading contender for the GOP presidential nomination,

is scheduled to appear Tuesday at a federal courthouse in Miami. The former president had kept reams of classified documents in boxes at his Mar-a-Lago resort in South Florida until federal agents raided it last year and seized the records. Trump says he's innocent and ripped the case as a hoax. It is very important to understand a number of distinctions between this and what is happening with the indictment and arrest in New York. The New York arrest is on state charges. This is a federal indictment.

This is not necessarily the only federal indictment that Donald Trump is facing because this is only related to the documents. There is also a federal investigation going on into Donald Trump's role in inciting the Trump riots of January 6th, 2021. No charging decision has been made there. And at minimum, there are additional state charges possible against Donald Trump in the state of Georgia. We will learn more about that sometime between I believe the dates are July 11 and September 1st or July 1st and September 11th, something along those lines.

None of this. None of this is at this time evidently politically motivated, a witch hunt, a perversion of the justice system or anything like that. We're going to delve into those aspects in details. But Trump indicted federally historic days in the United States. Let's now go to Donald Trump's reaction. Donald Trump started posting uncontrollably to Truth Social after we learned last night that he has been indicted federally and will have to appear in Miami on Tuesday. First and foremost, if you just sort of like scroll through Trump's Truth Social every few minutes, there's a post.

It's either a meme or a video or people praying with Trump or Republicans supporting Trump. And you can scroll, scroll, scroll like we're just scrolling here endlessly. And there is just no shortage of this stuff. Truth Social apparently having some glitches, but Trump spending hours and hours and hours posting this stuff. One of the first things he did last night upon the indictment was post a video, which we will look at in a moment. But just before that, he posted a three troth rant, which reads as follows. The corrupt Biden administration has informed my attorneys that I have been indicted with a capital I seemingly over the boxes hoax, even though Joe Biden has eighteen hundred and fifty boxes

at the University of Delaware, additional boxes in Chinatown, D.C., with even more boxes at the University of Pennsylvania and documents strewn all over his garage floor where he parks his Corvette, which is secured by only a garage door that is paper thin and open much of the time. This is a former president, ladies and gentlemen. Page two. I have been summoned to appear at the federal courthouse in Miami on Tuesday at 3 p.m. I never thought it possible that such a thing could

happen to a former president of the United States who received far more votes than any sitting president in the capital H history of our capital C country and is currently leading by far all capital C candidates, both Democrat and Republican in capital P polls of the 2024 presidential election. I am an innocent man. And lastly, on page three, this is indeed a dark day for the United States of America. We are a country in serious and rapid decline, but together we will make America great again. Now we're going to look at the video. But the most important point about all of this that I can make to you, and that is important not to lose sight of

as we are going to see the firehose of propaganda really get ramped up over the next few weeks and days and months. There are those on the right who want you to believe that because Donald Trump is being indicted, the system is broken. They point to the Trump indictment and say, see, this is the problem with the country. Our institutions aren't trustworthy. We are a nation in decline. This is all bad. And they couldn't be more wrong. The indictments of Trump prove that at least at this point in the process, no one is above

the law. They love to say if they can do it to Trump, they could do it to anybody. We knew that they could do it to anybody. And we know that when we say there's a two tier justice system, we talk about the wealthy and elite with access to the best lawyers and unlimited money for defenses and everybody else. We knew about the two tier justice system. They want to tell you the two tier justice system is left wingers and right wingers. There is no evidence of that. And what we have to accept if we honestly assess the situation is that Trump's indictments

tell us no one is above the law. That's a good thing. Now, whether he will get special treatment in later phases of this remains to be seen. Here's Trump's video that he put out. It's very stupid. Very sadly, we're a nation in decline. And yet they go after a popular president, a president that got more votes than any sitting president in the history of our country.

Irrelevant to whether one committed a crime, of course, by far, and did much better the second time in the election than the first irrelevant. And they go after him on a boxers hoax, just like the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax and all of the others. This has been going on for seven years. They can't stop because it's election interference at the highest level. There's never been anything like what's happened. I'm an innocent man.

I'm an innocent person. They had the Mueller hoax, the Mueller report, and that came out. No collusion after two and a half years. Well, I'm convinced. That was set up by Hillary Clinton and Democrats. But this is what they do. This is what they do so well. If they would devote their energies to honesty and integrity will be a lot better for our country.

All right. So it's basically the typical grievances from Trump after a three trust trust after a three truth screed onoth Central. So Trump losing it. But this is nothing compared to Fox News host Mark Levin. I did a stream last night as news breached the wires of Donald Trump's federal indictment. And one of the individuals who we watched live have a complete and total mental breakdown on live television was this Fox News host, Mark Levin, who some consider to be a great legal analyst. I have not seen a meltdown like this in years on media of any kind.

You've got to see this here is Mark Levin essentially saying this is nonsense. Trump is innocent. They're going after him for politics. This guy should maybe try decaf. Endless meetings, endless meetings with with Biden's with Hunter Biden's business partners, Bob Alinsky, who ties Joe Biden to the crimes. Mr. Big Mr. 10 percent. And what does Biden say? Well, then where's the money? He's asking us, come and catch me if you can. The idea that this man is an under criminal

investigation and that they criminalized that damn document case to go after Donald Trump is sickening. And I would say this to our fellow Americans. This was, by the way, during the Hannity program, Hannity just standing by during this entire thing. Don't be bamboozled by these cable channels and these fools who come on and tell you like this guy, he's not above the law. Are you kidding me? Democrat attorney general in New York, Democrat prosecutor in Manhattan, Democrat prosecutor in Atlanta, Democrat attorney general in Washington, D.C.

What do you mean he's not above the law? There is no law. What's going on here is a disgusting disgrace. It is war on Trump. Isn't this the best? It is war on the Republican Party and it is a war on the republic. The radical left is doing what the radical left does while they cover up for Biden the way they covered up for Hillary. Cover up what? Bring evidence of crimes. They seem furious that other presidents or presidential candidates aren't also getting

indicted just because it looks like Trump committed crimes. Here is this went on. There were viewers who were tuning out and then tuning back into the stream. And Levin was still going to tell you something. There are tens of millions of us. You have crossed the Rubicon twice. Well, it's never been done and we will never forgive you. Never, ever.

And that's the bottom line. I'm done. All right. And so he was done. But we'll go back and look at just a couple other moments. Just a really tough night for Mark Levin. They're throwing all these process crimes and all these crimes that grow out of the criminal investigation against Trump. What did he do with the documents? Did he sell them to the enemy? No. That's why we have an espionage act, not the trick of a president. What did he do? Did he burn them all? No. The government has all the documents back. So there is no violation of the Presidential Records Act at this point. But they throw the book at him. They go after his attorneys. They make them testify.

They're attorneys under the crime fraud exemption to attorney client privilege. That means he didn't have due process. His own lawyers were being subjected to interrogations and they had hundreds of in person. All right. I think you get it. And then putting a final point on it, Mark Levin talking about Trump's age. President Trump is 76 years old. If the Department of Justice gets his way, he will die in federal prison. Now of course, I don't believe that that's going to happen. I don't believe Trump is going to do a single day of prison time.

I've said it before. I continue to believe that if I'm wrong, I will eat my microphone. But I don't think Trump's going to be doing any prison time at all. An incredible 24 hours in America. We are going to be covering Trump's arraignment as as it will will be on Tuesday at 3 p.m. live on YouTube, Twitch and Facebook. It is happening, ladies and gentlemen, a now twice indicted and soon to be twice arrested. Donald Trump will find himself in federal custody before he knows it Tuesday in a federal courthouse. I hope you will join us for

it. This is accountability, at least the possibility of accountability for many alleged misdeeds. And that is a good thing. We're going to take a break. What a program we have for you today. One of our sponsors today is Ounce of Hope, giving our listeners 20 percent off. Ounce of Hope is an aquaponic cannabis company and a small business that supports the David Pakman show. If you're not familiar with aquaponics, what they do is sustainably raise fish and they use the nutrient rich water. Folks, we're talking about fish poop here to feed the cannabis plants. It's really a cool concept. It's organic. It's symbiotic. And what ounce of hope offers you is a wide range of high quality cannabis products. They have CBD. They have more

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I hope I'm pronouncing this correctly to Tressa of Minnesota. Is that correct, Tressa? Well, I pronounce it Teresa. Can you hear me? Teresa. Welcome. Yes. Great. Listen, I'm from Minnesota. As you know, we are a blue state. I'm a Democrat. I'm progressive. I'm liberal. I like to say that I will vote for Joe Biden, even if he is slumped over in a wheelchair drooling because the GOP is that dangerous. Big part of their platform so far has been big, heavy anti-trans, transgender. You know, they don't even want them to exist. And they pull in a lot of suburban women when they hear about children. You know, children are being mutilated, blah, blah, blah blah which is not even true but you know the response from the left seems to be um dismissive oh they make up a such a small minority of you know demographic

percentage of the demographic of the population it's not even worth talking about and I kind of disagree and I have two points that I like to talk about. Number one, I don't know what it's like in other states but like I said I live in Minnesota, liberal state and corporations and companies and you, board meetings and park boards and city council meetings and meeting groups all start off their meetings by asking people what their names are and to declare your preferred pronoun. I mean, this is there's not even a transgender person in the room. There might not be a transgender person in a 10-mile radius. And it seems overboard, just like the GOP goes overboard. I think sometimes the left goes overboard. I think the intentions are good. You know, they want to be inclusive and accepting. But asking someone what their pronouns are is kind of intrusive, I think. So let me address this, Teresa, because you've said a lot and I don't want to forget all

the different points you made. So, first of all, from a very tactical level, my opinion is I'm also against the unprovoked putting forward of pronouns as a matter of core of of sort of standard operating procedure. I know a number of teachers who teach in schools where they started the year doing that. And then they very quickly figured out, hey, you know what? This actually isn't great. Number one, it's not great because the truth is trans people are a very small part of the population. And so the why is it that we are doing this absent any particular reason to do it?

Now, one reason would be, well, you're making everyone in the room comfortable because by by having everyone state their pronouns, someone who has pronouns that might not be obvious from their physical appearance will be more comfortable. The counterpoint to that, Theresa, is there might be people in the group, in the audience, in the room, whatever, who are currently struggling with gender identity, who actually don't want to be in the position to have to state here are my pronouns. So I would call it like it nets out to zero. But my general view is I don't think that

that's something we need to be doing. I'm very comfortable as a trans empathetic and supportive individual basically taking my best guess at what people's pronouns are, which, by the way, when you're talking to the person rarely even comes up, it's usually when referring to the person to some other person. But anyway, and if I get it wrong, it's very obvious that I'm not doing it in bad faith and someone can correct me and whatever. So that's my view on the statement of pronouns piece. Does that make sense to you? Yes. Yes. Triple yes. OK. Yes to all of that. Now to all of that on the earlier thing you said, Teresa, which was along the lines of. There may be it may not be the best approach to just say this isn't even a big enough issue

to talk about and dismissing it outright. You're not big on that. I think I understood. Is that right? Correct. My thought on this is sort of as follows. We should recognize that it is no longer acceptable to treat or stereotype. That many groups that at one point was OK to do like there was a point in the United States where it was just totally acceptable to use the N-word when referring to black black people, separate sinks, bathrooms, water fountains and restaurants. OK, that's changed. It's no longer acceptable to do that. There was a point at which using the F word for gay people was acceptable and you could openly discriminate. That's not acceptable. So what what's happening is that a the right is going to smaller and smaller groups

in order to find someone that maybe they can get away with scapegoating. And I do think it's important to recognize that we shouldn't overstate the prevalence of trans people because like this happens with anti-Semites. Theresa, if you ask some anti-Semites, listen, what percentage of the population do you think is even Jewish? And sometimes they'll say five, 10, 20 percent. anti-Semites. Listen, what percentage of the population do you think is even Jewish? And sometimes they'll say five, 10, 20 percent. And you go, you know, it's point two percent. Right.

So I do think it's good to be accurate about the size of a population. At the same time, I agree with you that just saying it's not an issue because it isn't a big population. It's not a very that's not a super strong defense. I agree with you. Yeah, I don't think that it's a small issue because when people are being harmed, it's an issue. You know, companies, whatever, can have their diversity and inclusion policies. I don't know.

Most companies have a handbook or whatever, make it very clear that there are consequences and ramifications for treating people disrespectfully by not calling them by the name that they wish to be called by, whether you think that name belongs to what they look like or not. Sure. You know? Yeah. So it's not ignoring it, but not going overboard the other way, which I think alienates a lot of people.

Teresa, I mostly agree with everything you're saying. I know you had more, but I have so many people waiting and we've been on almost 10 minutes. I want to keep getting people on if that's OK. OK. OK. Thank you. All right. Teresa from Minnesota. Very powerful stuff. Let's go next to. Oh, boy. I have no idea how to say this name. I believe it's a Scottish name. It looks like it would be. I'm going to just take a wild guess at how it's pronounced, even though there's so. Go for it. Is it pronounced Rory? You are very close. It is Rory. Rory. Okay.

Well, listen, Rory from Scotland. Welcome to the program. Hi there. What's on your mind? I was just thinking, just because I have sort of like an outside view of the US, obviously, being from across the pond. I was just wondering what your opinion was on the sort of global global right wing populist movement, whether you think it was as strong as it was back in 2000 during the 2010s when, you know, Brexit happened and Trump got

elected and all that? Or do you think now it's in more of a retreat and you see some of these extreme policies come from the Republicans and the conservatives over here as their last kind of like flailing of a sort of like ideology that's kind of failing at the moment. I don't have anything empirical to tell you globally about whether the right wing populist movement is in retreat or not. My feeling. OK, so I'm just going by feeling and I know facts don't care about feelings, but I have no facts. So I'm going to give you my feelings. My feeling is that because of the losses that the MAGA right wing populist movement has suffered now multiple elections in a row in the United States and the degree to which anti woke doesn't seem to be winning and they're suffering legal defeats and moral defeats.

My feeling is that it is at least starting a retreat at this time. Yeah. And I don't know where that gets us in terms of like the 2024 election necessarily. Speaker 4 Yeah, for sure. Like I kind of in the UK, it's kind of the same because you have the conservatives who have like been trounced at local elections and they're pulling really badly nationally, but they're still like pushing the same sort sort of culture war policies that have just kind of been imported from America. So the whole trans rights debates has flared up, especially where I'm from in Scotland. So I think just looking over here, I think in some places like the US and the UK is faltering quite a lot just because of not

necessarily the ideology in itself, but the incompetent people behind it. It's both. Right. I mean, you can you can take bad ideas and popularize them with competent demagogues. You can take good ideas and see them lose miserably because the messengers aren't good. You could both can. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. All right. That's all I want to ask. Yeah. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Great to hear from you. Excellent. Always welcoming our Scottish callers. Let's go to Jean from Long Island. Jean, welcome to The David Pakman Show. What is on your mind today? Hello. How you're on the air. Awesome. My dad has raised me as a progressive. And the most thing the thing I've cared most about while growing up is reproductive rights.

And so we've been blaming the GOP and Trump taking credit for overturning Roe. But looking back, I'm thinking the Democrats should have made sure this right remained in place. They knew the GOP was planning and plotting for all these years. And my other I wanted to get your thoughts on that and also how how I can help in this fight to get it to get those reproductive rights back. I've donated to Planned Parenthood. But you know, if there if you had any insight on insight on that as well. So the first criticism is a fair one, which is couldn't Democrats, when they did control

the House and Senate and presidency, have codified Roe v. Wade such that it would no longer be up to the Supreme Court to do away with it? Is that more or less the critique, Jean? Yes, absolutely. I think it's completely fair. My question is, if Obama couldn't even get background checks done with the House and Senate after the Sandy Hook shooting, could they really have codified Roe v. Wade? I don't know the answer. I don't know the answer. But I think as a criticism, it's completely fair.

Yeah, there's a practical question. It's something that actually upsets me a lot because this is something I've cared about for a long time. So, you know, looking into the future, hopefully at some point we can get that back. And I just don't know how that would be. Speaker 1 Now, in terms of your other question, what is the best use of your time, money, resources, whatever, in order to essentially what you're saying is keep abortion legal and maintain access to it for people who want to access it with Roe v. Wade being done away with with Roe v. Wade being done away with right now. This is a state issue. So in the states that have passed restrictive laws, you could argue it makes sense to focus

there. So I don't know exactly whether it should be focus on getting candidates at the state level in these states that have essentially banned abortion to get elected. So maybe they can overturn it. Or is it donating to Planned Parenthood of Florida or Texas or whatever? I don't pretend to know exactly. I probably it's an all of the above approach. But I think that for as long as it remains a state issue, which it is right now, the focus for activists should be on the states in which it is most in peril. Awesome. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Speaker 1 All right. Jean from Long Island. Great to hear from you. Very strong questions

today, I must say. Let's go next to Richard from Slidell or is it pronounced slidell? Probably slidell, right? It must be. Richard, please unmute unmute yourself, sir. Oh, boy, Richard, you have self muted, and if you unmute, I would be able to hear you. All right. And Richard refusing to take off that mute. Let's go to Miguel from Central Florida. Miguel from Central Florida. Welcome to The David Pakman Show. What can I do for you today? Hi, David, how does my mic sound? It sounds beautiful. Oh, perfect. I wanted to ask, being someone that's coming from Central Florida, I've obviously seen the rise of DeSantis and a you place the blame on the local Florida Democratic Party? Or you can even translate it to the national issue as well. How much would you

kind of assign the blame to the Democratic Party for not being able to effectively counter the kind of right wing messaging that has dominated the media almost since Trump has won the election? There's a couple of different things here. Part of this is timing. And what I mean by that is I think that if the DeSantis reelection in Florida were November 2023 rather than November 2022, I don't think the San this wins by 19. Now, he probably still wins. But the reason I say he doesn't win by 19 is since November, the tide really has turned on a lot of this culture war stuff that DeSantis ran his campaign on. So I think part of part of it was timing and timing was the reason DeSantis expanded

his his margin of victory. Now, can we blame Democrats to some degree? Sure. You almost always can. Right. Like you can almost always do something to lose by less, even if you're going to lose than if you do nothing at all. I don't know enough about the internal dynamics of the Florida, what's going on in Florida to be able to specifically lay blame. But I think big picture, big picture, there was like a peak in the culture war stuff right around November 2022, which did help some Republicans like DeSantis. And had those elections been held six months later, like now, I think the results would have been at least slightly different. Yeah, no, I could definitely see that. Unfortunately, I'd say that the ground game for the Florida Democratic Party is, I'd say, almost non-existent here.

Is that right? I mean, back during the election, I would have people knocking on my door, handing out DeSantis pamphlets, and I live in a blue county, you know, and I didn't get a single Democratic person knock on my door. Although I will say that it was mostly the unions that were out here trying to campaign for candidates. Interesting. But I guess that would be a conversation for another day, if anything. Yeah. All right. I appreciate the call.

Thank you so much. There is me from central Florida. We're going to take the quickest of breaks and then we're going to come right back here and hear from more of you. OK, so if you're holding on to talk to me, just hold on a little bit longer. Sometimes it can be tough to maintain an emotional connection with your significant other. You might work in different places at different times. There might be a kid in the way. It can be hard to find time for date nights, especially because kids demand so much attention, which is

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All right, let's go back to the discord lines and hear from some more people in the audience. David Pakman dot com slash discord, of course, is the only place the only place to call into the show. Important to understand there, except no substitution, I think, is the point that I'm trying to make. Let's go to Josh from Michigan. Josh from Michigan. Welcome to the program. What's on your mind?

Speaker 5 Hi, David. Cool. It's nice to touch base here. I was just thinking about I look at the 270 to win dot com app. And I look at the map and I see all you really need to have a stable Democratic president going into the future. Our existing blue states plus Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. And the existing problem these three states have are sort of loss of population or stagnating population. And my question is kind of what do you think these three states can do to sort of gain population and stay strong for a more progressive future?

Because that's that's kind of where I'm coming from. Well, let me propose something different to you, Josh. You're not wrong that one way if you hold voter turnout level, one way for Democrats to do better in those states would be to get people to move to those states who would vote for Democrats. Certainly that's possible. I think that there's an easier way, though. It's much easier to get an existing Wisconsin resident who doesn't care enough to vote to go and vote than it is to get someone from like Connecticut to move to Wisconsin. Do you understand the point I'm making? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. In other words, you have the voters. Both parties have the voters to win because voter turnout is so pathetically low in the United States. I think it's far easier to convince

existing Wisconsinites and Michiganders or whatever the right term is to just go and vote rather than to try to get people to move there. And the truth is getting people to move somewhere depends on so many things really beyond our conversational control. You can convince people to vote just through a conversation about why it's important and it doesn't require them to sell and buy a new house, find a job, rent a U-Haul or any of those things. So I think the focus should be not on getting people to move to these key states, but just activating voters. I will say

one other thing, just because you brought this up. One of the real questions about 2024 is, OK, so whether it's Trump, Biden or Biden, DeSantis or whatever, if we start with the 2020 map, we then have to say, what is the path for Republicans to win? And when you start looking, it's not a great path for Republicans. Now, I'm not saying Biden's got this. I'm not saying that by any means. But when you look at some of these states, Trump got Florida in 2020. So you don't even have to worry like Biden won and didn't get Florida.

Imagine that Georgia, which Biden won, went to the Republican, which it often does. That still leaves Democrats with two hundred and ninety electoral votes. Imagine that Republicans also get Arizona back, which I think has gone more blue, Josh, since 2020. Democrats still have two seventy nine. So the point here is not that Republicans can't win or whatever. My point is, if I think about 2020 and think about what's changed, I think Georgia has stayed as purple as it was. I think Arizona has gone more blue. And so Republicans do have some work to do to get to 270 votes in 2024. Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, they have a lot of work to do. And I think Michigan, for what it's worth, has gone a little bit left since 2020.

2022, it went for Gretchen Whitmer by 11 percent. Yep. And she's done some positive things here, a little bit slower on the cliff than Minnesota, but just foundational stuff that I think is going to be great for the future of the state here. Excellent stuff. All right, Josh, thank you so much for the call. You're welcome. All right.

There goes Josh from Michigan with I mean, those are important issues. Nitty gritty, nitty gritty stuff for sure. Let's stick in Michigan for a little bit and go to Trent from Ann Arbor. Trent from Ann Arbor. Welcome to the program. What's on your mind today? Hi, David. Can you hear me all right?

Yes, I can. Hey, first, I want to say I've been hoping to get in and talk to you for a while now. I've been watching talking about a lot about like what they're doing makes no sense. Right. And I fully agree. It's like you can't get enough voters with Trump in the running. And I generally believe that most of them are banking on Trump dropping out for one reason or another. So I just wanted your thoughts on that, because that's the only way, like the only thing I can understand them wanting, you know, doing the way they're doing it the way they're doing. I don't think you're wrong, Trent, in the sense that one idea about what. So there's a couple

different ways that you could try to win a Republican primary. You could try to win a Republican primary by activating all the people that already don't like Trump. Or you could win a Republican primary by trying to convince people who like Trump to vote for you instead of Trump or some combination of these. OK, so these are a couple of different strategies. If you're trying to get the people who don't like Trump to vote for you, then you're going to have to criticize Trump. And so far, the only guy who's really criticizing Trump is Chris Christie. DeSantis a little bit, but it's really Chris Christie who has said, I get it.

This nomination goes through Trump. So that's one approach. The other approach is, OK, if I sort of just draw some distinctions with how I think things should be done, but don't really insult Trump, if Trump gets arrested multiple more times and then it just takes him off the campaign trail and whatever. I can be here sort of like Jerry in the episode where he's hanging around the woman who just had a breakup. Right. He's like, I'll just I'll be there for her and then I'll just be there.

You know, the problem is the Santas has 20 something. So if the Santas is already doing that, how is Tim Scott at two percent going to do the exact same thing? The math, they can't all do it, you know. So I don't I don't know what the dynamics of that primary will look like in four to six weeks, particularly now with Christie in who my guess is will get at least attention for going after Trump. It'll be interesting to see what it looks like in a month or two. Well, and I guess, I guess my last point is, and to extend it further, I just don't understand how people can be so dense. Like, you know, I look and I see what they're all saying and the just general Republican talking points and, you know, how, how dangerously

we've teed it, uh, you know, we've been on the edge of losing our democracy. Yeah. And I'm just sitting here like, how are you all complacent with this? You know, like, why are we why is there not more outrage and more vocal outrage? Why can't at a certain point we just say, stop, you can't do this. You can't lie and bring down our democracy to suit your own needs. I don't totally get it. I don't totally get it. And it's it's part of the I mean, complacency or even support for that. I mean, there's still people who say Trump won. There's still people who defend the rioters from January six. That's a much bigger conversation, Trent.

But bottom line, it's a mess. It's a mess. I fully agree. Yeah. All right. Well, sorry to end on such a disappointing note, but I do appreciate the call. Thank you, David. All right.

There is trash from Ann Arbor. Listen, let's get out of Michigan now because we've we've been going to so many no offense to Michigan, but we've got to go to some other state, I feel like. What about Alexander from Ohio? Alexander from Ohio. What's going on with you? Speaker 4 David, sir, can you hear me? I can hear you fine. I was wondering with the millennial and younger population of America leaning left,

do you think that we will in a couple of decades or so be kind of done with these insane issues that we've been having to deal with for the last couple of years. What do you mean? Well, just kind of like the fact that everything is like abortion, gun laws, these kinds of all of these issues that are the most important things in politics today for us. Do you think with the culture kind of leaning left in the future, a lot of these issues will become just more like we'll come to a conclusion about them and then they'll become non-issues? I see what you're saying. So here's the thing. I do believe that many of the cultural issues from today are not going to remain cultural issues indefinitely.

However, the right, which depends on fear and scapegoating to try to win, is going to move on to something else. And then the question is who then is further victimized. And that is a scary sort of proposition. So yeah, I don't think the focus will be what it currently is indefinitely. But then it's like, who will they go after next? And I don't I don't know. They're going to find someone to go after and to base their culture war around. So this does all just go on essentially forever, then I don't know about forever and I don't

know about it goes on, goes on like this. But I think the point I'm making is for the foreseeable future, if it's not trans people who are the target, it's going to be someone it's going to be. And so we just have to be ready for that. That makes a lot of sense, David. I was also wondering what you think of Ohio, if you've ever been here. Yeah, I've been to let's see, I've been to Cleveland and at Cleveland. I wasn't huge on it. It was very Pyongyang like a lot of concrete brutalist architecture where I was,

but I might have only been in one neighborhood. And then I've been to Columbus, which was kind of cool. Columbus had a good this was a long time ago, but it had a pretty good food scene. And yeah, I don't have any particularly hot takes on on Ohio. Well, that's good, because a lot of people often, you know, make jokes about Ohio, but I'm fine with Ohio existing. Let's put it that way. Well, I appreciate you, David. Thank you for answering my questions. I really appreciate what you do. Thank you, Alexander from Ohio. Great to hear from you. Let's go to Molly from Utah next. Molly, please welcome to the program. What is on your mind today? Hi, I am. I am very far left, so I'm like a socialist, like a socialist. I'm the libertarian

social. You're almost whispering. Try to speak up just a little bit. Speaker 2 Hold on. Yeah. Let me adjust the microphone. Can you hear me? Speaker 1 Yes, I can. Speaker 2 Yeah. So I wanted to, like, bestow some hopium to like people in general. I'm a libertarian socialist. I work with the DSA and everybody always wonders, like, how do you get party changes?

How do you like get people do you get party changes? How do you, like, get people to, within a specific party, doesn't matter which one, but how do you get it to basically align with your beliefs? Okay. And so the Tea Party used to do the whole delegate thing for the Republican Party, and that's how they shift a lot of local leaders. And so the DSA. Hello. Hello. OK, the DSA. Well, we lost. Molly. All right. OK, that was weird. Let's see if we can squeeze somebody else in here. What about you're going to have to be sort of quick, but how about Vance from the Atlanta

suburbs? Vance, welcome. What's on your mind? Hi, David. Can you hear me OK? Yes. OK, so my question is, how would the 2016 election season have gone if like Hillary Clinton was a man like everything else about her was the same, but she wasn't a woman,

she was just a man like, you know, it was so close. It was so close. It was so close. That if being a woman cost Hillary just a few votes in some critical states, you could argue that would have been a difference maker. But here's the thing I also want to add to that, Vance. There are so many single things that could have been difference makers if James Comey didn't do the second press conference about Hillary Clinton. If you know so you can play this game all day long. There are a million different factors. What was the weather on Election Day or all these different things? I think that it's an

interesting question to ask. The answer is I'm sure the outcome, the the vote totals would have differed somewhat from what they were if Hillary Clinton were a man. But I don't know how useful as a general way to analyze elections, how useful it is. OK, well, thanks for thanks for having me. That's all I have. All right. Vance from the Atlanta suburbs. And on that note, we will call it a day for live calls. We will take calls again. And when we do, I'm telling you right now, I hope to hear from you. We'll take a quick break and when we do, I'm telling you right now, I hope to hear from you. We'll take a quick break and be right back with much more. Here is the perfect Father's Day gift. Get him a Wi-Fi connected digital picture frame from Aura.

Our sponsor, Aura, has been named the number one best digital picture frame by Wirecutter, the strategist and wired. The David Pakman Show David Pakman dot com. anywhere in the world. I have several of these. I got my dad one. And so now I take pictures of the baby, load them into his or a frame and they show up and everybody loves it. You know, it's no more of these having to bring a slideshow. When I visit, I just put the pictures right in the frame. I'm really glad I got him one of these. And right now, Aura has a great deal for Father's Day. Go to Aura frames dot com slash Pacman. Use the code Pacman to get thirty dollars off plus free shipping. This deal ends June 18. So don't wait.

Terms and conditions apply. That's a you are a frames dot com slash Pacman. Use code Pacman for thirty dollars off. The info is in the podcast notes. All right. Let's check out what some of you had to say about this week of shows. You can always email info at David Pakman dot com. But Facebook messages, YouTube comments, tweets, smoke signals, telegrams and snail mail may

occasionally be included. The first message today comes from Facebook. I could give you 100 of these every single Friday, but it is simply one. You're an imbecile. Of course, the wrong your to which our team knows you simply write back with the correct your Y.O.U. apostrophe R.E. And then we move on from there. We probably get eight to 10 of these a day and probably hundreds via YouTube comment. Obviously, education, a concern in the United States. We're not making fun of people who lack access to a good education.

What I am pointing to is maybe don't call other people stupid morons, imbeciles, etc. When you send a three word message and one of those three words is just the wrong word. OK, so that's my advice. It's not about making fun of people, please. Let's just let's keep it together, folks. OK, the bread table comments about DeSantis and says he's only a good candidate by comparison to Trump. Speaking about Biden, I mean, I think Dems are in serious trouble if it's DeSantis versus Biden. I don't like DeSantis personally, but I think he's a very effective right wing

propagandist and looks better to the average American voter than two old guys. Keep in mind, the average voter doesn't have hard set policy stances and votes largely on outward appearance, social image and perception. Listen, I don't know if you've been watching the first two weeks of the DeSantis president's presidential campaign. He's not an effective propagandist. His appearance and social image are a disaster. He couldn't be less charismatic. He couldn't be more awkward. He's doing the bobblehead stuff. He used the word woke seven times in 28 seconds in a clip that we looked at on Monday. If that's a guy who's relying on his outward appearance to get elected, I think he's in trouble, folks. I really do.

Mr. Hipster posted to the David Pakman show subreddit. Ew, David, why would you go to Florida for the beaches? California is leagues better. Florida is trash. California beaches are infinitely better and way more ecologically diverse. Couple different things I want to mention here. Number one, California overall has much more beautiful beaches from the standpoint of scenery. I'm with you. The downsides to California beaches are that I like to go in the water and I just don't have it in me to go in the freezing water of the Pacific. And everybody, anytime you say this to people in California, they say, oh, no, you go you go down to Manhattan Beach and the water's warm. It's warm.

And then I step in there and my foot turns blue. I'm too old for this crap, guys. OK, as a kid, I did it. I want to be able to just kind of walk right in. This is why I prefer like Aruba and Mexico. But as far as the United States goes, the southern tip, just the very extra tip there of Florida is a good spot.

And I have to say, in the summer, it's hard to find nicer beaches on the East Coast than Pensacola, although technically Pensacola is in the Gulf. I understand that. But warm, even warmer than over in Miami. So listen, like I'm with you about the beauty of it all in California, the whole thing. But if I want to go in the water, it's just too damn cold. OK, please, please. Candy hoarding commented Trump 2024. He pisses off the establishment. So that's the one we need for the people. This is perfect. As I've told you many times before. There is a category of maggots or Magadonians,

as the new term may be, that doesn't care about policy, doesn't care about ideas, doesn't care about what's good for them or their neighbors or whatever. They care about, quote, owning the libs. And so they think if liberals are mad, if liberals don't like Trump, it must be good for the people. It's an incredibly childish and pathetic way to analyze what we should be doing in terms of American politics with elections and thinking about what sort of policy would be good or bad. But this is what candy hoarding says. Trump, because the establishment doesn't like him. Most people don't like him.

I hate to break it to you, but yes, about 40 percent of Republicans still like him. And that might be enough to win. Johnny X says it's ridiculous. But at the same time, I don't want LGBT characters in my kids media. I know they exist, but that's not something kids should be exposed to until they are teenagers. Think about how stupid this is. Seriously, seriously. You know, now as a parent, I start to think about things like, OK. When my daughter is three, inevitably she's going to look around and see

that there are kids who have a mom and a dad and kids that have two moms and kids that have two dads. And so she's going to be aware of the fact that there are these different arrangements. And so in what way would it benefit her or anybody for me to go out of my way to make sure that this never comes up like in school or in media? She might see something on a cartoon that mirrors reality. Oh, my goodness. She shouldn't be exposed to that. And then you're telling me when she's 13. Now I go, listen, some kids have two moms. That's a ridiculous way to raise a kid. So I don't really know what this person's talking about. This person may not even actually have children because it's very hard to imagine any way in which it would be damaging to be aware of the fact that there are LGBT people.

Really, really wacky stuff. And we got a lot of comments about this. The guitar is love wrote, never really understood how being gay goes against the family unit. You can be gay and still have a family. It happens all the time. Honestly, I don't think these people actually care about conservative or Christian values. I think they're just homophobic. I agree with that. I agree with that. The family unit is damaged. If there is someone who is gay, gay people are part of families and they have families. It's only damaging if their family is homophobic and kicks them out. Alberto Garcia is commenting about my vaccination and says, I doubt Pacman took the jab. But if he did, then I am looking forward to the day that it works

on him. So humanity does not have to tolerate him anymore. Two things. Number one, Monday, we went very specifically about the risk of death from vaccines and we looked specifically at different vaccines. We have data on this stuff. I encourage you, if you care about reality, to check it out. Secondly, I doubt Pacman took the jab. There are people in the audience who think I'm playing a character on the show. It happens all the time. But where people write in, I've said a million times now, I've told you what my vaccination situation is with the covid vaccine and I've been vaccinated. Why on earth would I lie about that? Why? Who what? I don't know. Who

would I even be serving? What would be the point? I'm not playing a character on this show. I just tell you the things as they are, please. RJ Carey about growing Christian nationalism in the United States and discussions about transgender identity and so many different things. R.J. Carey says it always cracks me up when people who do believe that a virgin can give birth to a supernatural figure lecture others about biology and what is natural. L.O.L. Very much well said, R.J. Very, very much well said.

I, you know, in general, with the biblical morality types, I I would even go further than this. Sometimes, you know, they'll call me and they'll say, David, you know, without the Bible, without this, without this structure, how do you know what's right and wrong? What's to stop you from just killing people if you don't have some some source that says it is wrong to kill or it is wrong to murder? There's a distinction between kill and murder made in some religious texts. And when I hear that, I think to myself, wait a second, are you saying that were it not for this supposed sacred text that communicates to you what in most cases a Jewish carpenter in the sky wants you to do? Were it not for that and the fear of eternal punishment as a result of what

that Jewish carpenter in the sky wants you to do or not do, you'd be murdering people. Like, are you saying that without that you'd be murdering people? Because if that's what you're saying, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't need that to tell me that murder is wrong. Anyway, it's I we don't have to we don't have to get into it. Here is someone reminiscing on when people would say the Pledge of Allegiance. I'm pronouncing it that way for a particular reason. Sylvia Potter says, I remember when Republicans would pray and say the pledge of allegiance before they started their meeting. And we had a Bible study before school started and we never had one school

shooting that was never heard of. Families like mine would sit around the dinner table and pray before a bite of food was eaten. We and a lot of other families would get up every Sunday morning and go to church. Watch old news clippings back then and the news today and tell me if you see any difference and then tell me God doesn't exist. You are the one with the big problem. I am struggling to follow this, but I guess the argument is when the Pledge of Allegiant or allegiance was set in school and there was Bible study in school, we didn't have school shootings. We also had way fewer guns. That's the first thing I would look at. We had way fewer guns circulating at that time and beyond. But before looking at the Pledge of Allegiance, I would consider the tool that is being used for the shootings. Before I look at

a Bible, I would consider the tool that is being used for these shootings. Before I look at a Bible, I would consider the tool that is being used for these shootings. But folks, this is America. Folks like that vote. And for every single one of them, we need someone who's going to think critically and rationally about the issues facing the country and vote as well to cancel that out. Otherwise they will win. And that's a really, really scary thing. We have a tremendous bonus show for you today.

Sign up at join Pacman dot com. You'll get instant access and all of the other great member benefits. You're also doing a great thing to support the work that we do. I'll see you on the bonus show. If you're not a member, then sadly, we will not be reunited. Until Monday, see you then.