The David Pakman Show - 7/14/25: MAGA erupts over Epstein scandal, Trump threatens Rosie with denaturalization

Episode Date: July 14, 2025

-- On the Show: -- David hosts a Substack Live with Brett Meiselas -- MAGA is fracturing as Trump allies panic, deny, and deflect amid growing outrage over Jeffrey Epstein ties and a suspiciously missing client list -- Experts say the Epstein death footage was edited using pro software, contradicting Trump DOJ claims it was raw and untouched -- In a panicked Truth Social rant, Trump all but admits the Epstein files contain damaging info about him -- Trump’s Epstein post on Truth Social was flooded with negative replies, breaking MAGA’s usual blind loyalty -- A theory emerges that MAGA insiders are using the Epstein fallout to oust Trump without directly opposing him -- Major MAGA names like Dan Bongino may quit over DOJ mishandling of Epstein files, exposing internal chaos and disillusionment -- Trump posts about taking away Rosie’s citizenship in a chilling authoritarian outburst targeting political enemies -- Trump’s threat to revoke Rosie O’Donnell’s citizenship proves he's once again unfit for office and warrants impeachment -- On the Bonus Show: Two-thirds of the DOJ unit defending Trump quits, big business kills click-to-cancel rule change, charges dropped against doctor accused of destroying COVID vaccines, and much more... 🥕 Quantum Nutrition Labs: Get additional 10% off with code PAKMAN at https://qnlabs.com 🍓 Strawberry.me: Get a $50 credit when you sign up for coaching at https://strawberry.me/pakman 😬 Remi mouth guards: Get up to 50% OFF with code PAKMAN at https://shopremi.com/pakman ⚠️ Ground News: Get 40% OFF their unlimited access Vantage plan at https://ground.news/pakman 🎙️ PLAUD AI: Use code PAKMAN for 10% off at https://davidpakman.com/plaud 🛌 Helix Sleep mattresses: Get 27% OFF sitewide at https://helixsleep.com/pakman 💻 Sponsored by Aura: Try it free for 2 weeks! See if your data is safe at https://aura.com/pakman -- Become a Member: https://davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe to our (FREE) Substack newsletter: https://davidpakman.substack.com/ -- Get David's Books: https://davidpakman.com/echo -- TDPS Subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow -- David on Bluesky: https://davidpakman.com/bluesky -- David on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow

Welcome to the show. What a weekend. Glad you're here. A little heads up. We're testing something new this week in the morning. We are doing like a two to three minute preview of all the news that's on the show today, not with the opinion. It's just like a two minute condensed newscast of today's show on our substack.

It's free for everybody. Let me know what you think. Substack David Pakman dot com. We might call it the Pacman preview or something like that. But the idea is it's the hour show stripped of the analysis and opinion, just sort of like here's what happened that's on today's show. Let me know what you think about it.

All right. Trump and MAGA are being ripped apart by the resurgence of the Jeffrey Epstein scandal. And the consequences are significant. And there's a number of different ways to interpret what's going on. But what we're seeing is that people in Trump's orbit are threatening to quit. Right wing influencers have no idea what to do. Some are turning on Trump. Some are defending Trump.

The left must exploit this. And that's the argument that I'm going to make today. Donald Trump's attorney general, Pam Bondi, announced last week as we covered that the so-called Jeffrey Epstein client list just doesn't exist. Years of promising transparency, years of fueling speculation about who's involved in one of the largest sex trafficking operations ever exposed. We've got the list. We're going to expose it.

Cash Patel, Dan Bongino, Pam Bondi. And all of a sudden, there's no list. So Trump's biggest defenders are now panicking. Tucker Carlson is calling it a cover up. Elon Musk says, how is anyone supposed to have faith in Trump when he was going to be the guy who exposes it? But now he's not doing it. But now he's not doing it. The flagrant podcast guys with Andrew Schultz are saying this is an insult to our intelligence. Listen to what they had to say.

You're asking a question at Epstein at a time like this, where we're having some of the greatest success and also tragedy with what happened in Texas. It just seems like a desecration. But you go ahead. Sure, sure. First to back up on that. So we're stupid. Yeah, we're the fucking idiots, guys. Just to let you know, we're wasting time. Look at us. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's a good point. That is, like in all seriousness, that is, I think, what is enraging people right now is it's insulting our intelligence. Like obviously the intelligence community is trying to cover it up. Obviously the Trump administration is trying to cover up something changed because they ran on this idea of exposing it all. So this is, this is the gist, right? This is what we're hearing. The rank and file magas that were screaming, lock her up about Hillary and talking nonstop

about Epstein and the deep state and Trump's finally going to expose it all. They're realizing that they've been lied to and they have been lied to. At the end of the day, they have been lied to. And we should call it what it is. Trump is the guy who promised to drain the swamp and expose everything with never before seen transparency. He is doing what he can to bury this story. He once was considering pardoning Jelaine Maxwell and his administration is now accused of editing a video, removing a minute from it.

And they are saying we are being lied to. So one of the important things to think about as we go forward is how should the left approach this story? While all of this has been going on, by the way, not to be missed. Trump and MAGA got the massive tax cuts for billionaires through and continue to be completely flaccid on foreign policy and aimless on the tariffs. So let's kind of like connect the dots here. Trump gives billionaires this giant financial gift.

And then this week, Trump's DOJ says we're not going to release the names, which, by the way, might be some of the very people that benefited from Donald Trump's tax plan. So people aren't stupid. People can smell a lie. And MAGA voters, especially the ones that fell for this idea that Trump was different and he's going to expose all of it. They are starting to wake up. This I believe is the moment to break through.

The cracks are showing MA Magas fighting with itself. The outsider image is gone. The tough guy persona is gone. And what is left behind here is another rich creep doing damage control. So just ask yourself, why does Trump want to protect Epstein's friends? Why did he defend Jelaine Maxwell? Why are they lying about the list? And why is it billionaires always getting away with everything?

So this is not a gossip story. This is a power story about who gets protected, who's above the law. So we should say, release the Epstein files. They clearly exist. Stop protecting the law. So we should say, release the Epstein files. They clearly exist. Stop protecting the predators. Stop protecting Donald Trump. And let's let's get out there and demand the transparency that we were promised. As every aspect of this story is now falling apart. Let's now talk about the video. Did you hear what is going on with the Epstein jailhouse video? It is increasingly looking like the now infamous video with its one minute of missing footage

has been doctored and in a relatively unsophisticated way. Let me set it up for you. For years, MAGA has been screaming there is a massive conspiracy to protect Jeffrey Epstein and the powerful people connected to him. And Donald Trump is going to expose it. He's going to expose him. Well, the evidence is finally starting to point to a conspiracy, but not the conspiracy that MAGA was hoping for.

And this is the key part. We now have reporting from Wired and from digital forensics experts. What they suggest and what they believe took place here is that the jailhouse surveillance footage from the night that Epstein died, footage that the Trump DOJ said this is raw footage. This is unedited footage. It was likely doctored. Metadata now shows that it was processed with Adobe Premiere Pro. The video itself has jumps in aspect ratio.

It appears to be stitched together from at least two separate clips. It appears to have been saved multiple times. So the claim that this is raw, untouched video from a federal prison surveillance system is undercut significantly by the facts. Digital forensics expert Hanny Fareed looked at the file, said this file would never be admissible in court because it breaks chain of custody. That's the standard that keeps evidence legit. And this ain't it.

So even people who were skeptical of the Epstein conspiracies are now going, wait a second. Why is the unedited video actually edited? And it gets much worse. We then get to the minute that's missing. A minute is just gone on the night that Epstein died. There's a missing minute. The clock jumps a minute. So what's the excuse?

Well, last week we heard from Trump attorney general Pam Bondi that the jail uses a surveillance system that resets at night and loses the same minute. The problem is that we have no confirmation of that. We have no technical documentation that supports that claim. We have no independent analysis that says that the missing minute happens every night. We're just supposed to take Pam Bondi's word for it. Think about this. The Trump administration's DOJ controlled the footage.

The video was allegedly processed in Adobe Premiere Pro. That is not a transparent explanation for the edits. And now we've got this unexplained jump right around the alleged moment of death of Jeffrey Epstein. So we don't have to be the conspiracy theorists. They have been the conspiracy theorists. We simply need to point out, look, MAG has been shouting for years that Epstein's connections to Democrats mean that there is a cover up.

But if there is a cover up, all of the signs are pointing to the Trump administration. The video was released under Trump's Department of Justice. It was edited on Trump's watch. Epstein was arrested when Trump was president and it is now Trump allies offering very shaky, unverified excuses. So maybe they were right about the conspiracy, but they've got the perpetrators wrong and we on the left need to exploit it. If you think Trump himself is getting worried, you would be right based on what he published to Truth Social.

Oh, no, oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Donald Trump, the king of deflection and denial and gaslighting appears to have admitted that he's in the Epstein files. And of course, that there is a list. So this didn't happen in a courtroom. This did not happen under oath, but it happened maybe in the place Trump occasionally tells the truth, which is truth social. Trump went off on one of these now routine, barely coherent,

barely punctuated tirades. And in the middle of blaming Obama, Hillary Biden, the deep state, the mailman, the prep cook and the gardener, maybe the Hamburglar. Donald Trump drops this gem. Take a look at this quote. What's going on with my boys and in some cases, gals? They're all going after Attorney General Pam Bondi, who is doing a fantastic job. We're on one team, Maga, and I don't like what's happening. We have a perfect administration. The talk of the world and selfish people are trying to hurt it all over a guy who

never dies. Jeffrey Epstein for years. It's Epstein over and over again. Why are we giving publicity to files written by Obama, crooked Hillary, Comey, Brennan and the losers and criminals of the Biden administration Obama who conned the world with the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax. Fifty one intelligence agents, the laptop from Helen Moore. They created the Epstein files just like they created the fake Hillary Clinton Christopher Steele dossier that they used on me. And now my so-called friends are playing right into their hands. Now, understand that already Trump's contradicting his own attorney

general. Supposedly, the files don't exist. There is no file. There is no list. Now all of a sudden there is a list, but it was created by Democrats. Trump continues. Why didn't these radical left lunatics release the Epstein files? If there was anything in there that could have hurt the MAGA movement, why didn't they use it? They haven't ever even given up on the John F. Kennedy or Martin Luther King Jr. files, no matter how much success we've had securing the border, blah, blah, blah. It's never enough to some people. We're about to achieve more in six months than any other administration has achieved in over 100 years. And we have so much more to do.

So he goes on and he ultimately says radical left inspired documents on Epstein. Let Pam Bondi do her job. She's great. And then he goes back to talking about how the 2020 election was rigged and stolen. So consider that they've gone from there is no list to, OK, there's a list, but Obama made the list to make me look bad. This is Maga talking. And when they're starting to suspect that the guy who promised to release the list is the one hiding it, you know, something is up. Now later, we're going to look at the reaction to this post from Maga.

They are flipping out and ratioing Trump. That's not the focus here. The focus here is Trump was president when Jeffrey Epstein was arrested. The Trump administration controlled the jail. His attorney general is the one who said we have all this stuff and now says we don't have anything. And now Trump is melting down over files that supposedly don't exist. Unless they do.

And they were made by Obama. And they also would have been released. But maybe they're real and maybe they're not. Or maybe they exist or maybe they don't. This is the panic spiral of someone who knows he's on the list and he is praying all of a sudden Trump found religion. He is praying that these never see the light of day. So again, my view, we don't have to assert conspiracies.

We just have to say it looks like their conspiracy is right. There's an attempt to cover this up. It's just that it's Trump himself trying to do the covering up. Make sure that you get the daily podcast. It's on Spotify. It's on Apple podcasts. We will have much more on all of these stories and more after this short break. labs, which is a brand that does supplements the right way. QNL was founded by two doctors who saw that the supplement industry has become dangerous. And the whole point is, let's skip the shortcuts.

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Sessions are virtual, flexible and also designed to work with your schedule. So stop guessing and start growing. Go to strawberry dot me slash Pacman to get started. That's strawberry dot me slash Pacman. The link is in the podcast notes. So I learned a while ago that I was clenching and grinding my teeth at night, not on purpose, not because I was necessarily stressed out by something obvious, but grinding and clenching without even knowing it.

And when I talked to my dentist about it, about getting a night guard, it was a whole thing appointment mold, waiting a bill that seemed very high. And ultimately I found Remy and Remy is our sponsor today. Remy sends a kit right to your door to take an impression of your teeth with super clear step by step instructions. You send it back to them and they will custom make your night guard right here in the United States in Las Vegas specifically. and in to see first year on YouTube. After a year on YouTube, we had a thousand YouTube subscribers. And to think that we've gone from that to one hundred and fifty million views a month

is just mind blowing. The primary sources of support for what we do, 99 percent of which we just give away. We've got some extra member content, but most of everything we do, we just it's it's not paywall. That's for everybody. Primary funding sources are website memberships and substack paid memberships. You can sign up on the website at join Pakman dot com. You can sign up on substack at substack dot David Pakman dot com.

Really appreciate everybody's support. Maga is brutally turning on Donald Trump. Trump got ratioed and destroyed on his own platform. Truth social central. I want to explain this to you. I think that for some of our less online viewers and listeners, the term ratioed may not be something you're familiar with, but it is actually critically important to understand what's happening.

And I believe that there is a clear shift happening here with MAGA. Let me explain to you what's going on. Normally, when someone posts to truth social or other platforms, the number of likes relative to the number of comments is significantly bigger, very, very much bigger. Like just as an example, the typical ratio on my ex account, like when I put out excretions on X, it's usually somewhere around. There are eight times more likes than comments. So if I post something and it gets 50 comments, it would usually have 400 likes.

And this intuitively makes sense. Why? It's much easier as you scroll past something to hit the like button than it is to comment. Commenting takes more energy and takes more effort. And in general, as we find in life, in the world and certainly on the Internet, lower effort actions are more common. Another example that that I think is important to understand. We get way more views on YouTube than we get listens on the audio podcast.

Why? It's much easier as you're scrolling YouTube to see podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast.

I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast.

I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm going to go to the podcast. I'm got to go to Apple podcast. So these ratios tell us a lot about the state of people and what's going on. If you look at this now infamous post on truth social from Donald Trump here, let me get it right here. Here it is. The what's going on with my boys and in some cases,

gals post. This is the post in which Donald Trump seems to acknowledge he's in the damn Epstein files. He says, actually, there is a list, but Obama created the list. Look at the ratio. This is this is unbelievable. Forty thousand likes and forty five thousand replies. OK, this is an unheard of ratio. And what this tells us is that relatively and remember, it's right wingers, it's MAGA on Truth Social.

If there is any stronger MAGA platform than Truth Social, I even rumble has some sort of like centrist. There's even some left leaning content there. This is the haven of MAGA. And still, rather than Trump getting normally, he gets about 20 times more likes than than comments. So he posted a picture here, a baseball picture, and you see that it's got 21000 likes and not even 2000 comments.

So it's like 10 to 20 X. Normally this post has more comments than it has likes. And when you look at it, when you look at it, you see that they are turning on Trump. This statement breaks my heart, Mr. President. All do respect, Mr. President. We voted for change. And a big part of that change was for transparency and accountability. We want the elite pedophiles exposed. You promised us that. I'm not going to read all of these to you, but you can read down and you will see that the comments are overwhelmingly against Donald Trump. This is an opportunity for the left. The left often ends up in situations where the right goads us. Into the infighting, the right goads us into nitpicking and purity tests and and falling for

these contrived internal disagreements. This is a gold mine and it is almost not even about Epstein. It's really about this is now something that is dividing MAGA in a way we have never seen before and we need to exploit it. But in so doing, a thought came to me that I want to run by you about what the real goal of this might be. Is it possible? Is it possible that the Epstein List scandal is a way for MAGA to get rid of Trump, who

they are sick of without without exposing themselves? Let me lay it out. This is a thought experiment. I'm not alleging that this is what's going on. It's a conversation which I'm bringing to you. Imagine that you are MAGA. You're in Trump's cabinet. You're one of Trump's big social social media supporters or whatever.

OK, you wanted Trump, you supported Trump, but now you see he's nuts. Maybe you don't like the tariff nonsense. Maybe you don't like the authoritarianism. Maybe you think he's embarrassing the United States or whatever. You're sick of it is the point. But you know that if you speak out, it's very risky because Trump will turn any lapse in loyalty real or perceived into punishment and will attack you publicly and will make your life a living hell.

So now you have the perfect solution. You don't release the Epstein list. The idea being Trump is on it. If Trump is on Epstein's list, Trump knows it. Trump knows what he's done with Jeffrey Epstein. Right. So when you don't release the list, you go. There is no list like Pam Bondi did.

You know, cash Patel now all these guys. So Trump goes, they're being loyal to me. These are my foot soldiers and they're doing the right thing. Pam is being good. Cash is being good. They are protecting me by claiming that there is no list. But if you are Pam Bondi or if you are a cash Patel, you know the MAGA base is nuts and you know that they've been told to expect transparency on the Epstein stuff and you Anticipate that if you don't release the list if you say there is no list these hardcore MAGA's

Are going to turn on Trump if they come to believe that Trump or his administration are now involved in the cover up. So in a sense, it's perfect. You get to feign loyalty to Trump by not releasing the list. But what you actually do is you make Magda flip out on Trump and maybe abandon him and it might hurt Trump without exposing you. It might hurt Trump without having Trump target you, because as far as Trump is concerned, you're protecting him.

Fox News says that this is a ticking time bomb. Elon Musk says the Epstein files and list should be released as planned. We potentially do have a ticking time bomb here. And the question is, is this how MAGA gets itself away from Donald Trump? Let me know what you think. All right. Final Epstein story for today. The Epstein scandal ripping MAGA apart from the inside.

We talked about it. We talked about all of those things. We have a very interesting specific story. Deputy FBI Director Dan Bongino, Trump loyalist, former Fox host, podcast host, one of the loudest voices in the MAGA universe. He is reportedly considering resigning over what he sees as a total mishandling of the Epstein files by Donald Trump's attorney general, Pam Bondi.

This isn't coming from liberals. This isn't coming from the liberal media. This is coming from inside the House. There are now multiple sources that say Bongino's furious. He has told allies he will not continue serving under Pam Bondi, essentially saying either she goes or he goes. And it's apparently not just Bonjai. There are reports that FBI Director Cash Patel is also reportedly fed up and that he is ready

to quit, although he has put out a statement saying no, no, no, no, everything's fine. This is a civil war inside of Trump world over Epstein. The DOJ now says there's no list, no evidence of blackmail, no reason to think Epstein was murdered. Well, Trump aligned figures have spent years saying Epstein was murdered and there is a list and Trump's going to expose it. And so you now have mega voters increasingly feeling betrayed and you've got mega operatives feeling betrayed.

People who built a career. I mean, there were years during which Bon Gino was just pushing this on his podcast. Now he's in a position to see it from inside the house and he and he doesn't like the way that it's being handled. And Bon Gino was reportedly excited about the footage, getting access to it, releasing it. He used to say the footage will prove that Epstein was was was murdered. But then he came out and said, no, no, no, no. The footage shows nothing. It's actually completely fine.

And all of a sudden, Bon Gino is left holding the bag. So I don't see this as a personal feud between Bon Gino and Bondi. I really see this as a crisis of credibility for the MAGA movement because they built a brand on the deep state exists. We're going to expose it. The deep state was part of covering up for Epstein. They got control of the FBI, the White House, the DOJ. They've got everything.

And now suddenly the list doesn't exist. And it is exactly what MAGA warned about, except they are the ones doing it. If anyone is covering this up and I don't know if anyone is, but if anyone is covering this up, it's the people who are in power and have been in power when everything relevant to Jeffrey Epstein took place. For now, Trump's defending Bondi instead of answering questions. He says Epstein is a dead topic. It's a desecration.

We shouldn't be talking about it at all. So we are going to now see, does Dan Bongino stay and become complicit in all of this or does he walk away and admit what he believes is the truth? But the damage may be done if the Epstein files saga has exposed something, if it's broken something open, it's led to the Trump people asking themselves, is Trump really fighting for us? Because if Trump is now satisfied for the Epstein thing to be completely suppressed, what's he hiding? Who is he protecting?

And if that's who he's protecting and he's abandoning his promises of transparency, is he really protecting us? Extraordinary opportunity to weaponize this MAGA division. Let's hope it happens. We will leave the topic for now and come back to it. Make sure you're subscribed to my YouTube channel, YouTube dot com slash The David Pakman Show. You know, for weeks now, discussions have focused on Trump's big, beautiful bill and

its potential Medicaid cuts. However, a far more dangerous overlooked provision in the bill exists at ground dot news slash Pacman. You'll discover what Maga lawmakers quietly included a provision that could block federal judges from enforcing court orders unless a bond is posted. And if this passes, it could render Trump above the law. This is a critical detail. It's largely unknown and it really exemplifies this flood the zone strategy of the Trump administration.

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I just text Brett and usually you have very specific and salient advice for me. You're like the go-to guy in a way. Well, here's the thing, I don't think people realize, I think people maybe assume that kind of all of the creators are in contact with one another and it's true in some respects, but not sure in some respects. There's certainly plenty of people I've never made contact with, but a lot of us are pretty close and one of the things that I've loved about this space is how collaborative it is and has become and continues to be.

And it's really like a rising tide lifts all ships sort of situation where I think everybody understands like, hey, we're in this together. We're going against a flood of disinformation, a flood of toxicity on the internet, in the world in general. And so we better not fight each other. We better work together to uplift each other's platforms. It's another reason why I'm so excited to be here with you today and why I love seeing you crush it on Substack. I saw you with BTC the other day that was really great but we just got this really great I feel like ecosystem growing and when you look back and so apologies I have a little

bit of a cold or allergies or something this morning. But when you look back, even just a few years ago, I mean, David, you were one of the OGs in the space. I'm sure you've seen it just develop so much over these past few years. I feel like you were sort of the lone voice of sanity for, I don't know, far too many years. I don't know where anybody else was, but you were like the leader. You were spearheading this whole thing. And so, you know, I just have you seen it even just grow

in the past kind of few years and from your perspective. Well, one of the really interesting things I've seen is in a lot of spaces, you know, you talked about toxicity. In a lot of spaces, there might be the assumption that once there are 10 of us in what we might call one sort of tier and then a hundred in the next tier and then a thousand in the next that the more entrance there are, the worse any one of us does. But this is very much not true. And what I often tell people, you know, friends will go, you know, there was a time where it was like the young

Turks and then it was like you. But now there's all these people. So it's like you, you know, there was a time where it was like the young Turks, and then it was like you, but now there's all these people. So it's like, you're, there's more competition. I go, my audience is bigger today than it ever has been. There are more people doing this today than ever. And my audience is bigger today than ever. Why is that? It's because we're making the pie bigger. There's a network effect right now.

Now I acknowledge that if this were to go up in size again and again and again, at some point it's going to be there's only 24 hours in the day. If someone's watching me, they're not watching someone else. We're so far from that and this space is so comparatively small that I think we benefit from the more people that start doing what we're doing. Yeah, I agree entirely because folks are just bringing their audiences with them. And I think there's a lot of people for too long that viewed YouTube as like, come on,

I don't get my news on YouTube. Come on, I don't get my news on the sub stack or whatever it is. But now people are realizing that these are places to go and that they are being able to find voices that they trust. And I think we could all agree that the 24-hour news cycle is dying, I would say, or you know, their numbers are certainly, I mean, any David Pakman video gets more views than a prime CNN, which is like, you know, a total reversal of what things were, you know, back in the day.

And, you know, I think what that brings is legitimacy, but I think what it shows you is that there has been this just whole kind of effect where people may not want to watch cable, but they want to get the news. And they want to get the news kind of all day. They want to know what's going on. We live in a news cycle where a day's worth of news is like what used to be like a year's worth of news what happens.

So people want to keep up, but it's where do they want to be following? Where do they want to keep up? And so I think people are far and away rejecting a lot of these cable networks that are focused on very specific narratives. And honestly, I feel like there's a lot of dead air just by the nature of a 24-hour news cycle where you have to have shows like that show CNN has where they get the Scott Jennings guy and the liberal and they fight it it's like who's that's who's that helping at the end of the day is anybody coming out of that more informed or is that providing any additional information for people on important topics but when you have a David Pakman there who's able to in 10 minutes 15 minutes,

break down the most important topic of the day, and do that X amount of times a day, a week. I mean, that's, to me, it's like a direct shot of the news of exactly what people need to be hearing at the time, kind of without all that extra fluff. One of the things I've been thinking about, and I don't know if you saw this new Columbia Journalism review piece, that is sort sort of like the gist of it is audiences tired of legacy and corporate

media are switching to independent voices. Some of the voices are on the right, some of the voices are on the left. And one of the things it talks about is the community building aspect of what we're doing. And this is what I find super interesting. If you think about like, hey, the Wall Street Journal editorial board just put out a piece. Everyone would go, all right, I might care about the piece or I might not. I don't know nor do I care who is, who are the people on the Wall Street Journal editorial board. I have no relationship with them. I don't see these as any more than words on a page. One of the things that I think is unique about what we do

and might even resist the impact of AI, because AI, I think, could much more easily replace some of these corporate seeming outlets, whereas it's gonna be tougher when it's a community and a relationship with people, is I do think that we are building communities and you guys see that with what you're doing on sub stack and what you're doing on YouTube and I think that that's the intangible that right now a lot of people actually

want. Yeah we were on Fox the other day on the local Fox in California on Friday and one of the questions they asked us because this interviewer at Fox, who is actually a great interviewer, it's not like the Fox News that you, you know, when you think about Fox, he had us on very early in our time of building Midas back in 2020. And so this was like us coming back on. And he was like, over the past five years, what has been like the most incredible thing. And, you know, I said the community aspect of it, because when you look up like Midas on Twitter or Blue Sky or Instagram or whatever, you see people who put Midas in their name.

And a lot of people are like, do these people work for you? Who is Midas Cathy? Who is Midas Jim? And it's no, they're just people who identify with the voice of the network. And you see that with David also. People are going to his channel. No, they're just people who identify with the voice of the network. And you see that with David also.

People are going to his channel. There's going to see you. And you don't see CNN Jim, CNN Stacey. That's not a thing that exists. And I think these communities are the most important things right now that we have as a country. And I'll say there's always a possibility for danger when it comes to communities because people could get pulled into some pretty dark communities.

I think that's what happened in 2020 in a lot of ways where people got sucked down these right wing rabbit holes, everybody was home, and next thing you know, they're clicking on a video of a cat on a Roomba then all the sudden that page starts posting about arresting Fauci and next thing you know they're you know watching Benny Johnson and Candace Owens and you like how you know they don't even know how they got there but all the sudden. Yeah they're there and they're in it and that's their world and so I think you know if there's one thing I hope it's that when we speak our voices and are authentic and are trying to lead with honesty and just be real about everything that people gravitate towards that rather than kind of sinking into these right-wing ecosystems, which are really being pushed on people like never before. You go on X right now, and I know a lot of people have abandoned that, but, you know, it's the algorithms are very much trying to boost certain kinds of

content there. And I think to the average person who's going on social media, I don't think they really know that that stuff's being pushed out. You know, my in-laws are with me right now, and my mother-in-law will occasionally say, look at this alert I just got on Twitter. And the and she has an account that zero posts, doesn't follow anybody, it's just, she opens it up and looks at whatever's being pushed at her. And the stuff I'll always get sent is like, it's always an Elon post or what's the other,

there are all those right-wing accounts that push these breaking news that is always like the craziest stuff and you realize Oh, this stuff is being pushed up people and to me like when people ask me What do I think is the most dangerous, you know thing about right now? I think it's that I think it's this information ecosystem that is so Toxic right now and it's being funded by billionaires and who have their finger on the algorithms who are trying to push certain messages and you know to folks and it's highly effective

because people don't even know that they're on their receiving end of it. Even the way Twitter works with their blue check system of people purchasing it, even just naturally because the people who want to support Elon Musk are mostly going to be right wing people. The comments that people see on the top of Musk are mostly going to be right-wing people. The comments that people see on the top of their feeds are going to be comments that lean in a certain direction. And so I think even it scares politicians because they'll post something like,

we need to save Medicare. And their top 20 comments are going to be like, F you, you're a liar, da, da, da, da, da. And some people get scared by that. And to me, I'm like, listen, it's skewed. That's not a representative population. It doesn't mean ignore comments, but on Twitter especially, you're being fed at the top of your list

the comments that are going to oppose these issues because that's what it's designed to do. So don't fall into those traps. One of the things that is a little bit, I don't wanna call it darker, but maybe more of an area of concern to me is that one of the things I think the right does well is in the lead up to elections, they welcome everybody.

So if you're an independent, someone who used to vote for Democrats and an election's coming up and you go, yeah, I don't know about Harris's plan for the deduction on business startup expenses. The right will go, come on in, you're a welcomed, disaffected Democrat, we love you. They do this really successfully to win elections.

Now, then they win and it explodes, right? But we're talking about winning elections right now. One of the things that I see a little bit on the left, and every time I bring this up, people get a little angry with me, is I don't think we're as good at keeping our eyes on the forest, and we sometimes miss the forest for the trees on these, they're not always insignificant differences. There are significant differences sometimes in wings of the left. But I think to our own downfall, we don't recognize that to even get the opportunity to make policy, we need to win some elections. And sometimes those

divisions simply prevent us from getting the power we need. And so I don't know what your view is on that or whether you see it. Yeah, I would just say, you know, don't fall into the traps of the right, don't fall into their framing and don't let them divide people. And I think sometimes, you know, the left, so to speak,

as we've described it here, does certainly, you know, fall into those traps a little bit. And what I think Republicans try and do effectively is to divide that slice of the pie on the left to the point where people just get so disaffected or say, I'm upset because this person wasn't perfect on this subject or that subject, so I'm just going to sit out or I'll vote for the other person. And you're right. There was that chart that came out a couple of weeks ago at this point.

I'm not sure if you saw it, but it was about ideological diversity in the parties. And it showed, you know, the Republicans made a big deal of it because it showed Republicans have more ideological diversity than Democrats do. And I sort of had a different perspective on that chart, which was that when the Republicans,

after an election, when they get solidified, their ideology isn't bound by policy. I mean, if they cared about the deficit, they wouldn't be jamming through this bill, which is going to explode the deficit and the debt by record amounts right now. You know, if they cared about, you know, protecting healthcare or any, you know, this bill wouldn't be happening if they actually cared about working people, but they have one allegiance and one unifying idea and that's at this moment in time, it's Donald Trump. And so they allow anybody in their tent so long as they are accepting of dear leader at this point. And you could have, you know, and then that's sort of how they won this almost hippie wing, I guess I could sort of call it of the of our political electorate, which is always weird to me. I live in Los

Angeles and that kind of organic food, natural this kind of like the vaccine hesitancy. A lot of those things were actually not too long ago kind of a subsect of liberal voters. And Republican just kind of co-opted this with the Democrats and stuff and took advantage of it and has this RFK faction, which are a lot of folks I think that used to vote democratic, but for whatever reason and the pandemic played a lot to it, were able to be pulled over like that. And that's just one of the ways that I've seen them pull at these strings and divide folks. But I would just urge people not to throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to certain things and that's too especially in these moments

when you know our politics right now is being redefined in a big way that election I think set off a firestorm and and it's causing the Democratic Party as well to think inward and think who are we as a party and it's also making voters say who are you as a party we got to know like like pick pick lane, what are we doing here? How are you fighting back? How are you stepping up? I mean, we hear it from people all the time. They want Democrats to do more.

But I think in that process of discovery when folks are trying to figure out who are we, I think we can allow people to make mistakes or do things that we wouldn't necessarily think are good ideas. And it's okay if we vehemently disagree with them and say, I think this is a horrible idea. How could you do that? But I wouldn't negate everybody, their entire life's work and accomplishments and throw

people away because they made maybe a decision you didn't agree with. An example I could think of is, is, you know, Gavin Newsom when he did his his podcasts when he had Charlie Kirk on and he had, you know, Steve Bannon on IVM and we disagreed with it and and I and and I thought it was not the way to go about it to me watching somebody like a, you know, Pete Buttigieg go on to flagrant go on their platforms and make his case was a lot more effective than inviting folks like that onto you and to kind of play nice with them and more so than have a strong debate and defend. So I had an issue, we had the governor on the show, we brought it up with him, we asked

him about it, we pressed him on it. But does that mean that I think everything he's done for California, everything he's done for, you know, the freedoms here for LGBTQ rights, everything he's working on with housing right now, everything he's doing to fight back against Trump, do I think that I don't think all that should go away because he did something that I agree with no matter how much I disagree with that. And, you know, and I think we see now, you know, how important of an ally is someone like a Governor Newsom has been when Trump turned his target on our state, on California, on Los Angeles, put the National Guard here. You know, I'm happy we have somebody like that to, you know, to have our back here.

Because you have a Donald Trump who has put our city under attack. I mean, there's not like I think the National Guard might still be here. And there's nothing going on here. Like, it's like, as peaceful and beautiful and as could be. And it's just an excuse for Donald Trump to be meddling in our in our local politics. And you see him kind of all over the place, you know, trying to do that. You see him in New York with the comments he's making about Momdani. He wants to insert himself in local politics around the country and really expand the powers of the executive in a way that, once again, does not align with what I always knew to be conservative principles. These are just

straight up authoritarian principles. That's right. You know, one of the things that in the last six months has been the most different from any other time at which I have done this is the number of fronts on which I'm taking out insurance policies, proverbial insurance policies. So I'll give you some examples. I'm a naturalized American citizen. I'm from Argentina. And I put a plan in place with a specific law firm,

should I leave the country and have an issue coming back? So I have a specific team that is sort of on call, not just for me, they do this for anybody who thinks they might need it. In case I have an issue getting back into the country. That's never something I would have ever considered before. Number two, when it comes to our data and our platforms, this is sort of like a little peek behind the curtain

or under the hood, but we don't really own our data on a lot of these platforms. On YouTube, if YouTube were to shut me down, I would have no way of getting a hold of those millions of subscribers. The only places where I own my data are my website and interestingly Substack lets us download our subscriber list. And so one of the reasons I think Substack is so important right now is that there is a way if

anybody, if the clamp down comes from any of these directions, at least I know that if we take regular backups of our sub stack followers i can get a hold of them and let them know what's going on these are the sorts of insurance policies that prior to this administration even in the first term i never even thought of this stuff. It's really a sign of the times and it's upsetting and I've had numerous people text me as well when they left the country and they've been afraid just to have service some sort of communication like if you don't hear from me by X time. You know call this number do this for me and I'd never like it's a scary thing to even have to like worry about and unfortunately it is reality and by the way that's why everybody should you know make sure that you are subscribed to David's sub stack here it's super easy I know during these lives I think it's super easy there's like a button above our heads that you just click and you could subscribe to David Pakman's sub stack and you could subscribe to the Midas Plus sub stack that way we're always you know in touch no matter what happens but you know I

was taught and I always knew it was bullshit, but you're taught small government conservatives. They just want everyone to be left alone and do their own things. I've never felt the government more than this Donald Trump term in particular. During Biden, I didn't have to worry about leaving my house and seeing the military on the streets or whatever it is. You're able to live your life to me You know people just want to live their lives ultimately and this is the opposite of that

We have this guy in our face every single day You know fighting with universities fighting with companies fighting with other countries fighting with our loved ones going into neighborhoods close by, pulling people out of their homes, deporting them. I was in Silver Lake the other day, which is a neighborhood here in Los Angeles, and there were signs up that were haunting to me because they felt like they were out of a dystopian movie, and the signs were missing signs, but they were missing signs because there were people who were deported,

who were ripped out of their homes by the government. And it would say something, it had an image of them, and it said, you know, missing, you know, abducted by ICE on such and such date, father to so and so, have not seen since, you know, whatever date. That, to me, when I was walking around, I felt like I was in the most horrific dystopian movie, you know, about Nazi Germany or something. But here I'm walking around Los Angeles and you just see the effects on people, right? You see the food stands that are not coming out anymore because they're afraid of authorities messing with them and their workers. You see restaurants closed down. You see an overall unease in these neighborhoods of people who I'm very close with. And it's just it's a really sad and horrifying place to be as a country. And we know it's all being

run by Trump and people like Stephen Miller, who just had absolutely no care for humanity or anything. We see how they treat people and I don't even care, undocumented, non-undocumented, you name it. You don't treat people the way that you're treating people. You don't send them to El Salvador in prison concentration camps. You don't make alligator Alcatraz and then sell merch based off it and then have all these MAGA influencers being like, look how dope the alligator Alcatraz merches this is so sick. So these are people's blogs that we're dealing with.

And this is like the some of the most humane things I've ever heard. And you know, someone who's decently well versed in history, I don't think people who have done things like this have ever been on the good side of history and the history books that I've read You know one of the things that often Comes up when I open my phone You know I do a tick-tock live and just let anybody who wants to call in and ask questions one of the things I'm hearing Most frequently is this is an example, but but you can apply this in a lot of different situations. Hey David

I live in Mississippi. I have a trans daughter. I'm thinking about getting out. I'm thinking about either leaving the country or I'm thinking about leaving the state. And you know, on the one hand, it is absolutely the truth that if all of the people on the side of democracy and empathy and dignity if we all Leave the red states or leave the country we cede control to the people who want to do the worst things and We leave a lot of people behind who don't necessarily have the wherewithal the resources to leave the state or to leave the country. So at a 40,000 foot level, Brett, I know we can't just abandon, right?

At the same time, when that mom calls me, how can I tell her, don't take the steps you've identified that will be better for your family and better for your kid right so there's this tension between i would never criticize someone for taking the actions that they've identified or how i keep my family safe. What is added national level we do need people to stay in fight and it's a very tough tension right now i think. right now, I think. Yeah, it's a scary time. And I guess people have to do what's best for them and what's best for their family. I think you do have to fight to a certain extent. But I totally get if you want to go to a different state

or a different place because you feel safer in those places. And I'm not going to tell anybody not to do what's best for their families. I mean, I think about just in history, so many families, mine included, who saw what was going on in Germany and Eastern Europe back, you know, at the turn of the century and got out of there because they, you know, and that was probably a good decision for them.

And so, you know, I think a lot of people, you just don't know what's going to happen. And so some people, you know, you feel like, let's play it safe. I need to protect my family. We need to get the hell out of here. I totally get it. But while we have the whatever powers we have, I do urge people to do what you can to, you know, to fight back and also, you know, take steps to protect yourself and use resources, whether that be independent media networks like David Pakman, like Midas Touch to help get your stories out, to make sure that the truth is being

told, to spread information to people that could persuade people to our side, and just take the steps necessary right now to just do whatever we can. We can't see power is one of the biggest things, and that's honestly why we're still on all platforms. People get mad at us for being unbearable. There's a faction of people who get mad that we're on Instagram because of Zuckerberg. There's people who get mad we're on Twitter because of Elon. If I played those games, I'm going to reach now 10% of the audience and we won't be getting the message out at all.

I try to fight and I just think the important thing is staying true to your values and not bending the knee to any of these kind of forces. If I felt the need to post pro Elon stuff on Twitter or pro Zucker, I'd get it. But we're still fighting the good fight on all those platforms, and we're trying to get the message out as best as possible.

Well, listen, Brett, it's always awesome to catch up with you. I want to make sure all of my audience who's here, make sure to subscribe to the Midas Plus sub stack. If you are, if I'm new to you, and you're in the Midas audience, I would be flattered if you subscribe to my sub stack as well. Anything else that we just should make sure the audience knows about what we're doing, what they should be doing at this kind of critical moment? I think right now just understand that everybody has a megaphone.

And you might think that I only have one follower, that I only have a couple people in my family or one friend. Truthfully, it doesn't matter. Spread the word. These things grow exponentially. All movements that succeed are movements that start from the ground up from people like you. So if you see creators you like, share their stuff.

Let people know. If you see a podcast you like, share it with friends and family. If you see an article you like, share it with friends and family. Don't be afraid to have those conversations and they don't need to be in a combative way, but you could have conversations with folks and you know, it's one thing when they hear it from Brett or David, it's another when they hear it from you, somebody who they love. And so I hope you use, you know, the things that we get to say on our platforms and I think we both feel so

lucky to have our platforms to be able to use them in the ways that we use them and please use the information you get from our platforms. Spread the word. I also got to thank David because, you know, for bringing the conversation full circle, you know, there was no need, you know, for David to be so welcoming to us in the space, you know, when we first got in. David was one of the OGs and he really paved the way. So, you know, I'm grateful to David for the way that he's welcomed us, the way he's welcomed other creators to YouTube. I'm so excited to have David here on Substack.

So make sure that you're subscribed to his Substack here. And just so grateful for this audience. Just the very fact that you're frankly listening to us means that you care, I think, and means that you're in this fight. And times are tough. I'm not going to like sugarcoat it and say, everything's great and Trump is going down. Times are tough right now and the Republicans are doing some bad things. But the fact that you are here, the fact that you are listening, the fact that you continue to stay engaged, that gives me a lot of inspiration and hope, quite frankly.

And so thank you to everybody. Brett Mycelis from Midas Touch and Midasas plus always good to talk to you, my friend. It's been a pleasure. Thanks for having me, David. All right. We'll see everybody soon. All right. When it was time for a new mattress, I didn't want to gamble on something generic.

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She's certainly an acquaintance. She's been on the show. She's supported this show. She supports independent media. And Donald Trump is absolutely and completely obsessed with Rosie O'Donnell. The obsession isn't new. He's been obsessed with her for a decade or longer. But it has now taken a full-blown authoritarian turn. Donald Trump posting about Rosie on Truth Social, quote,

Because of the fact that Rosie O'Donnell is not in the best interests of our great country, I am giving serious consideration to taking away her citizenship. giving serious consideration to taking away her citizenship. She is a threat to humanity and should remain in the wonderful country of Ireland if they want her. God bless America. Now let's sort of like get the critical part out up front. A president can't take away someone's citizenship because he doesn't like them. It's not something that you can do. Secondly,

Rosie O'Donnell was born in the United States. She's a U.S. citizen by birth. It's not revocable because you're mad that she made fun of you. And number three, this is the rhetoric of a dictator. I will decide who deserves to be a citizen and who doesn't based on their opinion of me and whether they've ever made fun of me or insulted me. This is full blown dictator stuff. Now we're going to get back to the seriousness of a president threatening this momentarily. But I want to look back a little bit. If we look back in Trump's political life to start with his obsession with Rosie O'Donnell can be traced back at least to this debate moment from the 2016 campaign.

Remember this one? Women, you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals. Your Twitter account only Rosie O'Donnell. No, it wasn't. And a raucous Republican crowd cheering, really showing us what was to come. So that was the 2016 campaign. But when I spoke to Rosie, she said that Trump's obsession with her actually goes back even further.

Listen to this. Where were you when in the 2016 primaries Trump starts insulting you? Did you see that live or did someone tell you Trump's talking about you right now? Well, it really started in 2007 when I was on The View and he, you know, went on like a 10-year or an 8-year tirade and went on all the shows. I think he was very shocked that someone said the truth about him on the mainstream media and he was determined to try to destroy, you know, my credibility or my, you know, my who I am as a person by doing these barrage of insults. But I think the one you're talking about was with Megyn

Kelly when she was yes. Yes. And he said, you call women cows and pigs and slobs. And he says, No, only Rosie O'Donnell. Right. I was watching it live. You were watching it live. And my kids were in the room with me. And they said, Mom, what did he just say? You I go, yes, he did. So listen, Trump's obsessed with Rosie. Now let's zoom out. This is really not merely a Trump meltdown.

This actually is a serious escalation. And one of the things that I think is a risk, aside from the general risk of hyper normalization that can happen when we're exposed to such absurd behavior for a decade at this point from this guy and just kind of becoming desensitized to it, is that we don't always appreciate the and I say appreciate as in comprehend the full authoritarian nature of some of the things that that are happening. You've got a sitting president convicted, by the way, of many felonies, publicly saying he wants to strip U.S. citizens of their citizenship based on whether they are politically loyal

to him. Today, it's Rosie O'Donnell. Tomorrow it's someone in Congress. Next week, maybe it's a journalist or a creator or maybe it's you. This really is fascism 101. You create a scapegoat, you demonize them, you claim you alone have the power to decide who belongs in this country and who gets to have the citizenship that they are Entitled to by birth and the MAGA crowd loves this stuff when they're not, you know distracted by the Jeffrey Epstein scandal They love this. They're not cringing. They're cheering this what a strong president

They eat it up because they don't really care about rules They say they do they say they're for law and order, but it's really about revenge. And they are bloodthirsty for revenge against anyone who has ever said the wrong thing about Donald Trump. I believe that a president suggesting this is impeachable. And that's what I want to talk about next. Donald Trump has now earned another impeachment by threatening Rosie O'Donnell with stripping her of her American citizenship. Trump has already been impeached twice,

never convicted, impeached, but acquitted. We are really past the point of asking, should Trump be impeached again? Obviously, within a week of becoming president in his second term, he had done impeachment worthy things. But when a sitting president starts openly daydreaming, fantasizing about revoking American citizenship, not just in general, but against someone who just doesn't like him and has said mean things about him. It really is a constitutional crisis on this. In this recent rant, Trump says that she should just stay in Ireland and that he wants to look at revoking her citizenship.

But the truth is that this is impeachable. We are no longer talking about policy differences. We're talking about a president proposing one of the most egregious authoritarian punishments for Americans that he doesn't like, which is I am going to take away your citizenship. We would expect it from Putin. We would expect it from Kim Jong Un or Orban. But Trump, you know, he says it with a smirk. He writes it with a smirk. His supporters cheer it as it's tough talk. He just means he's serious about dealing with these ungrateful liberals.

The president doesn't have the legal authority to revoke citizenship. It's not how the Constitution works, which they told us they care about. It's not how the country works, which they told us they care about. But Trump keeps saying it because he knows that his base will love it. And he's laying the groundwork to make it normal, which is something dictators do. The problem is most of MAGA won't care because they're a cult. Now there are Republicans outside of the cult. There's not a ton, but they exist.

There are independents. There are people who will see this as the line. But if you think, oh, it's just talk, you've got to look around because Trump floated mass deportations for a very long time. And now he's trying to carry them out. Now, he's actually failing because they're not able to round up the number of people they want to round up. But that's a different story for tomorrow.

But he's doing the thing he said he was going to do. He said he would weaponize the DOJ. He's doing it. They're investigating Comey and Brennan. He said he would go after journalists. He's trying to do that. So Trump tells you what he's going to do and then he does it. And people keep going, oh, it's tough talk. These are euphemisms. Well, now he has talked a dozen times about revoking citizenship, different scenarios, different specifics. So we've got

to believe him. And it is impeachable even if it doesn't lead to removal. And even if the Senate won't convict, as I've said before, it is the duty of the House of Representatives to say, what has he done? Is it impeachable? We vote based on that. The political calculations should be left for later. Put them on the record. Make every member of Congress show where they stand.

I don't think history will remember. Did they have the votes in the Senate or even in the House? I think history will remember who stayed silent while an authoritarian president said some Americans don't deserve to be American anymore, based on what they said about me, that is a line for me. I wish it were a line for everybody else on the bonus show today. Two thirds of the DOJ unit defending the policies of this administration in court have quit. They're done. Big business managed to kill the click to cancel rule that would have saved consumers

billions of dollars. And the United States has dropped charges against that doctor accused of destroying covid vaccines. This is an old story we covered when it started. Well, charges have been dropped. What a surprise. All of those stories and more on today's bonus show. You can sign up at join Pacman dot com and remember that you can get a sub stack premium

subscription at sub stack dot David Pakman dot com as well. Finally, if you would like a free membership, we do have a list you can get on David Pakman dot com as well. Finally, if you would like a free membership, we do have a list you can get on David Pakman dot com slash free membership. You'll get on the list as soon as the next free membership becomes available. We just work our way down the list. I'll see you on the bonus show. I'll be back here tomorrow.