The David Pakman Show - 7/18/24: Biden COVID, Trump sleeps through RNC

Episode Date: July 18, 2024

-- On the Show: -- Nicholas Kristof, columnist for the New York Times and author of "Chasing Hope: A Reporter's Life," is now urging President Joe Biden to step aside as 2024 Democratic presidential candidate -- President Joe Biden has tested positive for COVID -- Donald Trump has still released no medical report about his shooting, and is seen wearing increasingly bizarre gauze bandages -- Top Democrats, including Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and Adam Schiff are now calling for President Joe Biden to step aside and allow a different 2024 presidential candidate -- JD Vance jumps on the "they" shot Trump bandwagon at his first campaign even as Donald Trump's vice presidential running mate -- MAGA goes racist against JD Vance's Indian wife, Usha Vance -- A stunning new poll shows that most Americans want both Donald Trump and Joe Biden to drop out of the presidential race -- Donald Trump appears to sleep during RNC speeches by his son, Donald Trump Jr, and his vice presidential running mate, JD Vance -- Voicemail caller points out that Melania Trump is completely missing, and corporate media is ignoring the story -- On the Bonus Show: RNC ratings on first night down 21% from 2016, Paris mayor swims in the Seine to show it's safe, President Biden calls for ban on gun used to shoot Trump, much more... 🍽️ CookUnity: Get 50% OFF your 1st week with code PAKMAN at https://cookunity.com/pakman ⚠️ Try Ground News and get 40% OFF the Vantage plan at https://ground.news/pakman 💪 Alpha Progression: Get 20% OFF your 1st year or month at https://alphaprogression.com/pakman 🔊 Babbel language learning: Get up to 60% OFF at https://babbel.com/pakman -- Become a Member: https://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Become a Patron: https://www.patreon.com/davidpakmanshow -- TDPS Subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow -- Pakman Discord: https://www.davidpakman.com/discord -- David on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave a Voicemail: (219)-2DAVIDP

Speaker 1 Today, we start with the elements of medical, for lack of a better term, Joe Biden and Donald Trump, different medical questions simultaneously. We have now learned that President Joe Biden has covered and is off the campaign trail. This has obviously immediate campaign implications. It relates to growing calls from now the top Democrats for Joe Biden to step aside, which we will discuss later. And it also puts in extraordinarily stark contrast the forthcoming nature of the Biden campaign and the White House about what's happening with Joe Biden and the comparative question marks as to why has there been no medical report about the shooting of Donald Trump?

We will get to that as well. Let's do it. I mean, listen, we have no way to do it in any way other than step by step. So let's do it. We learned yesterday afternoon after it started to be noticeable that Joe Biden was running very late to a speech with the Unidas U.S. group that something was going on. And then before or as Donald as Joe Biden rather was expected to be out speaking the announcement made about Joe Biden's positive test.

Let's take a listen to that. Good afternoon. Thank you all so much for your patience and understanding. Regrettably, I was just on the phone with President Biden and he shared his deep disappointment at not being able to join us this afternoon. The President has been at many events, as we all know, All right. So Biden positive for covid. Now, within minutes, there was a detailed medical assessment of what's going on, released and contrast this with the five days since Donald Trump was shot and still

no medical assessment. The document put out by the White House states earlier today, following his first event in Las Vegas, President Biden tested positive for covid. He's vaccinated and boosted and having mild symptoms. He'll go back to Delaware, where he will isolate and continue carrying out presidential duties and regular updates will be provided. A note from the president's doctor was also included, which says the president presented this afternoon with upper respiratory symptoms to include runny nose and nonproductive cough, general malaise. He felt OK for his first event, but given that he was not feeling better, point of care Thank you. normal temperature, normal pulse oximetry, normal. The president has received his first dose of

Paxlovid or Paxlovid, as some prefer to say. He will be self isolating at his home in Rehoboth or Rehoboth, as it is often mispronounced. So that's what's happening right now. Now, in isolation, excuse the pun in isolation, this would not necessarily be the biggest news in the context of the RNC happening. His opponent, Donald Trump, having a perceived boost to his campaign from Biden's poor debate performance from being shot on Saturday. The timing politically certainly seems problematic, and you will see why it is extra problematic given the calls from top Democrats for Joe Biden to step aside. Now, as a reminder of the disgusting nature of these Republicans who want to hold the

left to one standard that they don't even hold themselves to, that applies to the recent shooting, but it also applies to President Biden's COVID. Here is Greta Van Susteren interviewing Reverend Franklin Graham and Reverend Franklin Graham cannot even really get it together to genuinely wish Joe Biden well and a speedy recovery. A man of God, supposedly President Biden just tested positive for covid. He can't catch a break. Well, I'm sure he's had the vaccine. But it's an interesting time. What what what a man of God. You can really feel the deeply spiritual and empathetic and Jesus like nature of Franklin Graham there in his reaction. And then we also had Greta Van Susteren getting Republican Senator Joni Ernst to comment on President Biden's positive covid test. And she can barely scrape

together the goodwill to wish him well. Your thoughts about President Biden getting covid? I mean, he can't catch a break. I wish him well, Greta, and I'll leave it at that. OK, you can see just how genuine Joni Ernst is in wishing Joe Biden well. So a couple of different things here. If I told you a year ago that within the same two week period, President Biden would have a disastrous debate performance that immediately raises questions about his fitness to be president. Trump would pick a VP who hates him, get shot in the ear, and then Biden would test positive for covid. You probably would say that, David, that sounds extraordinarily unlikely. That's the

scenario that we're in. Now, there are a lot of conspiracy theories about this entire Biden covid diagnosis stemming from the fact that Biden recently said during an interview what would get him out of the race is if his doctors came to him and said, you have a particular medical condition and you shouldn't run. We then get the news that Biden tested positive for covid and he is seen boarding Air Force one without wearing a mask and with all of Secret Service not wearing masks. And the conspiracy that has come together is Biden doesn't really have covid because if he did, everybody would be wearing masks.

This is just a false pretense for Biden to save face and get out of the race. The reason I think that that's extraordinarily stupid, aside from the fact that there's no evidence of it, is that if they were putting together a fake covid diagnosis to generate a pretense to get Biden out of the race while saving face, they would be smart enough to say everybody should wear masks so that it's more believable. I think the explanation for no wearing masks is they're just not taking reasonable precautions. The mask thing is certainly curious, but it seems to go to people just kind of being checked out about COVID, quite frankly, than evidence of a conspiracy. So President Biden with covid,

hopefully his symptoms remain mild. He's getting the best medical treatment that is available. And that's where we are with that. Now, let's talk about Donald Trump's medical situation. Notice that within minutes of President Biden's covid diagnosis, we have a detailed assessment of symptoms, medication and the plan for the next couple of days for President Biden. It has now been five days since Donald Trump sustained this gunshot wound to his right ear, although we don't even have a report about that. Now, I'm not suggesting it wasn't a bullet. It was glass. As many of you know, this has gone back and forth. I don't have any personal opinion of it. I'm not declaring to know that it's one or the other. I am merely saying there have been conflicting reports about

a bullet versus a glass fragments. And we don't have a medical report to tell us one way or the other. The corporate media has whipped itself into a frenzy for the last however many weeks over the possibility that President Biden is hiding something with regard to his health. And you are not seeing the corporate media apply the same standard to Donald Trump and the fact that we still have no medical report. It is a total ball drop by corporate media. Michael Steele appeared on MSNBC last night and said, why is there no medical report? And this is a Republican making this demand. So let's start with last night in the bandaid. That's fine. What I where I am at this point is it's been three days going on for since this horrific

event occurred. And now it's five as of today. This is lost their life to have been severely injured. And yet we've not received a medical report from the hospital, nor have we received a medical report from the campaign or from the Trump organization about the extent of the damage to his ear. If he was shot by a high caliber bullet, there should probably be very little ear there.

And so we'd like to know that. Is there cosmetic surgery involved? What is the prognosis for recovery? Were there stitches? What is the extent and nature of the damage to his ear? Was it caused by a bullet as opposed to some reports from those on the scene, other reporters saying that it was actually shards of glass from the teleprompter itself, not the bullet.

So there are a lot of questions around that ear. And yet there's been no response to that. Instead, just showing the image of the man coming into the hall. Let me go. Let me. Yeah. And, you know, the doctor, Ronny Jackson's bizarre gauze bandage with scotch tape is not really answering the questions that Michael Steele is rightly asking.

Fascinatingly, Benny Johnson, right wing bomb thrower with whom I recently appeared on the Piers Morgan show. He interviewed Dr. Ronnie Jackson, who, while he is not currently Trump's doctor, he was at one point now he's a congressman. He says he's been providing care to Trump's ear. And for a doctor who's providing medical care, there's a lot of discussion here about divine intervention that is not really answering any questions. Congressman, I have been I guess I can't say dying to ask you this question, but I really wanted to get your take on this bullet that missed the president. Yeah. My opinion

on this as a simple Christian is that this was a miracle in the hand of God. Right. Because a millimeter one right direction or another, you're going straight through his skull, could have hit his neck or his chest. Right. And it was actually a good shot. I mean, you know, if he had not, you know, looked up to the right to that, you know, that chart they put up that he was looking at.

And I talked to him this, I was with him this morning. I went and saw him this morning and he was talking. I was with him yesterday and I flew in with him. And he's told this story over and over and over. He realizes how close he came to that. Right. And he realizes that if he hadn't started making that movement where he turned his head, pulled back a little bit and looked up, if he hadn't have done that at the exact millisecond that he started, that bullet would have entered his head. Right. And it would have hit him here. It would have hit him here.

You know, I mean, either way, he would have been dead because of the high caliber weapon. Right. And so I agree with you. I think that there was divine intervention there. I think he's already proven to the country that he's here for a purpose. He's already done a lot of great things for us, but I don't think he's done yet. I think that he's going to step up to the plate, and he's going to continue to finish the job he started. And we're going to get this country back. And I tell people all the time, I know him i you know i've been his doctor for a long

time and i you know i've become he's become a really uh good friend as well as uh did you do an assessment to the start interrupt you but since you've been with him for the last 48 hours did you do any medical assessment on the president well i mean i checked his ear out and i went up and addressed his ear this morning i went up there so yeah. Is he missing a piece of his ear? A little bit at the top, yeah. Really? You know, it's highly vascular. In the holofield.

Yeah. That's right. That's what he did. Did he tell you that one every first time? That's what he told me, too. The Netflix adaptation, right? Yeah. So, nothing concussive, though?

No, no. He was lucky. I mean, you know, it was far enough away from his head that there was no concussive effect from the bullet. And it just took the top of his ear off, a little bit of the top of his ear off as it passed through, you know, and it was bleeding like crazy because, you know, the ears pretty vascular bleeds pretty badly. And, you know, I bandaged it up pretty good this morning because it also it's not like a clean laceration like you would have with a medical report is Trump's former doctor talking about how he bandaged it up and everything's fine. But God definitely played a role in all of this, which, as I mentioned yesterday, doesn't explain what role God played in directing the bullet directly into an innocent bystander's head, killing that innocent bystander. That's a different question, which we addressed yesterday. So no medical report.

Just Dr. Ronny Jackson, who Trump thought was Dr. Ronny Johnson just a few weeks ago. The contrast, as usual, about transparency couldn't be more stark. And the contrast and double standard from corporate media when it comes to President Biden and now with President Trump also could not be more stark. Let's take a break. We're going to have a tough conversation in a moment about the undeniable reality that what I would consider three of the top five Democrats are now calling for President Biden to step aside. That is that is what is taking place. OK, and I am going to relay that information

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Right now, we are seeing candidates do whatever it takes to win your vote and how the media chooses to cover certain stories, if at all, can completely shape your perspective of those candidates. But our sponsor, Ground News, is an awesome resource at a time like this with their vantage plan. I get access to what's called their blind spot feed that shows me stories that can be easily missed. For instance, I'm looking here at Ground News, a summary about Trump distancing himself from

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Project 2025. Every story comes with this visual breakdown of the political biases and ownership of the reporting news outlets, which is really important to know as well. Go to ground dot news slash Pacman or scan my QR code for 40% off the same unlimited access vantage plan that I use. The David Pakman show, of course, continues to depend on you to do what we do, particularly as we will be expanding the online show starting after August 2nd, while pulling the show from radio, TV and free speech TV, as I've been telling you for a month or so now, we will be doing a lot of new things and we will be exclusively reliant on that direct support. I invite you to sign up at join

pacman.com. And of course, if you, I think the membership prices are pretty reasonable, seven bucks a month or 70 for the entire year. You get the commercial free audio and video feeds, the bonus show, the members only soundboard, a whole bunch of great things. I think the prices are reasonable, but I also understand that it's great to offer discounts. And we have a coupon code save democracy 24 that will save you about 50, 50, 55 percent. So certainly something to think about at join Pacman dot com. I told you after the June 27th presidential debate that I will come to you and tell you if I believe that the pressure on Joe Biden to step aside gets to a point that I start thinking this genuinely plausibly is starting to look like a realistic outcome. We are now at that point,

and I'm going to tell you why. I want to remind you, if you're going to email me and say, David, you're causing a problem by even mentioning this, you should pretend it doesn't exist because you're going to email me and say, David, you're causing a problem by even mentioning this, you should pretend it doesn't exist because you're buying into this, that and boosting or what I report to you what is going on. Two weeks ago, I reported to you that it seems the predominant view of Democrats, with a few exceptions, is that the best case scenario involves Joe Biden staying as the nominee that has shifted and no one benefits if I pretend everything is fine and this isn't going on. It reminds me of the naked gun scene where there's a house exploding, a building exploding. And Leslie Nielsen is saying

nothing to see here. Please disperse. And you see massive explosions in the background. So let me tell you what has changed. Nancy Pelosi, top Democrat in the House, Nancy Pelosi, one of the top Democrats, privately told President Biden polls show you can't win and you will make us lose the House. Biden reportedly became defensive. President Biden said during his recent press conference that what would get him to step down is if he became convinced based on what he is told that he cannot win. Nancy Pelosi behind closed doors is telling President Biden, you cannot win. You will make us lose the House, which we already don't have, by the way. And Biden became defensive. Nancy Pelosi, it's a big deal. Secondly, Chuck Schumer, top Senate Democrat Chuck Schumer

said to President Biden, it would be best for you to end your candidacy. That's according to ABC News. This was a private meeting. Quote Schumer forcefully made the case that it would be better for Biden, better for the Democratic Party and better for the country. If he were to bow out, Carl said there has a Jonathan Carl from ABC said there has been no denial from Schumer's camp. The senator's office said leader Schumer conveyed the views of his caucus. Minority leader Hakeem Jeffries has made similar statements. That is another top Democrat in the House. And finally, Adam Schiff, a member of the House of Representatives, top member, one of the more well-known Democratic congressmen, has called for President Biden to pass the torch. You'll recall Adam Schiff is

running for Senate. I interviewed him on the program about that. He said, quote, a second Trump presidency will undermine the very foundation of our democracy. And I have serious concerns about whether the president can defeat Donald Trump in November while the choice to withdraw from the campaign is Biden's alone. I believe it is time for him to pass the torch and in doing so secure his legacy of leadership by allowing us to defeat Donald Trump in the upcoming election. He did say, however, he'll support whoever is the nominee because the stakes are just too high.

And fourth and finally, or fifth and finally, the DNC is delaying the roll call nomination of President Biden. The this is a new report, quote, The DNC is pushing back by a week its plans to nominate President Biden for reelection in a virtual roll call as the party's voters and many top officials continue to express discontent about heading into the general election with Biden atop the ticket. It was announced yesterday the roll call would take place the first week of August rather than as soon as next week. I have always told you I will be direct with you on this issue. I will never lie to you. I will never do the posturing thing.

It is impossible to ignore that when you have this level of pressure from Nancy Pelosi, Hakeem Jeffries, Adam Schiff and Chuck Schumer. And the DNC is slowing down the nomination process. And now on top of everything in this environment of apparent weakness, Biden has covid. It's hard to ignore that this is a very serious amount of pressure. It continues to be President Biden's decision and Biden's decision alone. Reports are that his family continues to say, stick with it. It is now I mean, this is I struggle to believe that the timing of this is going to be this fast. But there are those who are saying what should happen is that during Trump's speech tonight

at the RNC, the announcement should be made that President Biden is not going to run. It will completely take the news cycle away from Trump and whatever he says. I struggle to believe that the timing is going to take place, particularly with Joe Biden currently isolating with covid. So that is what's going on. And to say at this point that these are completely unlikely scenarios, any scenario that involves Joe Biden stepping down would be deceiving, would be deceptive, would be dishonest for me to say. I don't know what the path forward is. Trump must be defeated. Whatever the best way to do that seems to be the best idea for Democrats. But that is where we are today. I want to hear from you. What do you expect? What do you predict? Info at David Pakman dot com. A vice presidential

candidate, J.D. Vance, who seems to really hate Donald Trump, made his first campaign appearance yesterday in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, during the Republican National Committee. He is now going with this. They shot him. They shot him. Which, of course, raises the question, who is they? You mean one Republican dude with a gun that Democrats want to ban, right? Here is J.D. Vance yesterday, very much following the script that MAGA has developed in the five days since Donald Trump's shooting was so terrified that we had just lost a great president. But it would be an unbelievably terrible thing for our country in that moment in time. I was just so, so afraid for him and so afraid for our country. And then, of course, he stands up a minute later after they shot him.

They literally shot him. They. And he raises his fist in the air and he says, fight, fight, fight. He fires up the crowd. OK, so J.D. Vance doing the they games. If I were a Republican, which is sort of like kind of hard to even really imagine, because if I were a Republican, I probably wouldn't be thinking this logically. But if I were a Republican and I were thinking logically, I would think to myself, OK,

hold on a second, hold on a second. A registered Republican from an apparently right wing family that would have Trump signs on their lawn, tried to kill the Republican nominee, a young registered Republican from a right wing home using what has become the de facto Republican weapon of choice and AR 15. Maybe we should really look inward at what we've been pushing for the last however many years. Instead, they go with it might have been Antifa. I saw Dave Rubin float.

It might have been Antifa. This is somehow Biden's fault. The left is violent, et cetera, and go with this. They thing which wraps up the fact that there were Democrats in the House and Senate that believe Trump committed impeachable offenses, prosecutors who believe Trump participated in or committed criminal offenses, juries that agreed that Donald Donald Trump committed felonies, a jury that agreed that Donald Trump defamed E. Jean Carroll and then a lone Republican gunman who shot Trump. They go.

That's they that is they as opposed to, wow, we seem to have a real problem on our hands and maybe this isn't such a good idea. No, that's not the way they go about it. That's not the way they go about it. J.D. Vance continuing during this event. And, you know, I told you that what Trump likes about J.D. is that J.D. has pledged loyalty and appears to be a complete and total doormat. Here's J.D. bragging about how the Trump brand is synonymous with luxury. This would make Soviet or North Korean propaganda anchors blush. This is so pathetic. There's another spin on on the contrast again between Joe Biden and Donald Trump that I

think it's important to take on. You know, President Trump obviously is one of the successful real estate executives in the history of our country. Of course, the Trump name became synonymous with luxury and with beauty in the real estate world. And Joe Biden, of course, likes to pretend that he's just Scranton Joe. I don't think Joe Biden knows much about what he is or isn't these days. Right. So as we all know, the Trump brand just completely synonymous with luxury and beauty. So listen, J.D. Vance is doing what he was hired to do. He was hired to uncritically repeat every single one of these bonkers talking points and and nonsense statements. They shot him. The Trump brand is so luxurious and to claim that he will stand by Trump's side no matter what. He's doing it. He's doing it. And that's what they hired him to do. MAGA has gone racist against JD Vance's Indian wife, JD Vance's wife, Usha Usha Vance

is of Indian origin. Makes no difference to me, but apparently much of MAGA does not like it, does not like it. A few instances of this that I want to show you. Jaden McNeil, a self-described normie pilled MAGA, posted a picture to Twitter of Vance, his wife and one of their kids, and sarcastically said, I'm sure this guy is going to be great on immigration. Nick Fuentes, the white supremacist who visited Trump at Mar-a-Lago along with Kanye back in 2022, suggested that Vance would not be a, quote, defender of white identity because of his wife's Indian heritage. Vincent James Fox, who was present on January 6th, 2021 at the Trump riots, wrote on X.

J.D. Vance gets tapped as VP and immediately there's a Hindu prayer at the RNC. Next, we'll see Senator Mike Lee and J.D. Vance team up to convince Trump to let in 10 million Indian immigrants, green cards on diplomas and then conspiracy nuts. Stu Peters, who we've talked about before on the program, tweeted there is an obvious Indian coup taking place in the US right before our eyes, alongside an article about J.D. Vance and his wife's kids. It is all not surprising in any way. I don't think it really makes a difference with regard to Vance's utility to Trump instead in terms of generating new votes or expanding the electorate. It doesn't seem like

J.D. Vance helps Trump do that in any way. But it is just a reminder that you can do a very not credible 180 when it comes to your political views about Trump, as J.D. Vance did. You can kiss the ring. You can become a doormat that repeats every stupid debunked talking point about Trump and pledge allegiance to the orange leader. But if your wife is Indian, there is still a part of MAGA that will say, no, no, no, you can't be trusted. And we are seeing that very strongly right now.

Let's take a very quick break. Make sure you're subscribed to the YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash the David Pakman show. And remember that we've got the free Project 2025 white paper available at David Pakman dot com slash Project 2025. Twelve pages. Don't you know, if you don't have time to read the 900 page full Project 2025 document, read the 12 page white paper and you will learn what it is, the risks and how we can try to stop it. Well with the arrival of the warmer weather, many of us are heading outdoors more and more and really trying to get that summer fitness going. If you're looking for just a simple science based, straightforward workout program with

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personal fitness goals. And it was developed over years by veteran bodybuilders. So the app will The David Pakman Show David Pakman dot com. alpha progression to give you 20 percent off your first year when you sign up for an annual plan or 20 percent off your first month. If you sign up for monthly, the link is in the description. It's great to welcome to the program today, Nicholas Kristof, columnist for The New York Times, also author of the new memoir, Chasing Hope, A Reporter's Life. Really appreciate the opportunity to talk to you today. Thanks. Great to be with you. So listen, I've tried to be as honest as I can with my audience at every point in this election based on all of the information that's known to me about what I think is likely and what I think is best in what I think is the important effort to prevent Donald Trump from serving another term.

If I understand your latest position correctly, it seems that you recognize the great achievements of President Biden in this first term and believe that it would not be the best thing for him to be the Democratic nominee this time around. Fair assessment. Exactly. Yeah. And I say that with sadness. I've known Biden for, you know, for decades. I admire him. He had a great term. But, you know, the reason he was chosen four years ago was that he could win. And that is not true this time, I believe. Who do you think, if anyone, prevented this conversation from becoming as real and urgent as it seems to be today with Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Hakeem Jeffries, et cetera, saying that the time may have come? Should this conversation have happened sooner?

And if so, why why do you think it did not? Well, it clearly should have. And, you know, I think that the job of campaign and aides and, you know, White House aides has tended to be to protect whoever is the occupant of that post. And so they protect that person by, you know, not making them available for tough interviews and not making them available in the evening, et cetera. And they thought that they could carry this through until November. And it might have worked. Biden does seem to be on most of the time, but he's off enough of the time that, you know, there was a risk of a catastrophe. And that happened in the first debate. Was your opinion before the debate or let me let me put it a different way.

If you look at someone like Alan Lichtman, his framework essentially disregards what happened at the debate, not 100 percent, but close to it, arguing it doesn't change the structural foundation of incumbency, the state of the economy, et cetera. I'm curious your take in terms of how much that debate on June 27th changed your perspective. That changed my perspective, you know, overwhelmingly. Until then, I had thought that Republicans were exaggerating the impact of his age. I thought that they were I mean, you know, we saw these kind of fake clips where they were, they seem to have to rely on this, this artificiality to suggest that he was senile or something. He really does suffer from cognitive capacity problems at least some of the time. And it's hard to know how often, but that he will not be an effective candidate. And also, you know, it's not just about politics that one has to be concerned about what will happen if there is a foreign policy crisis in the middle of the night.

And I think he has great aides around him who I think would help. But fundamentally, you want the president himself to be coherent at 2 a.m. And I think there were real doubts about that by before the end of the debate. I had tweeted that that President Biden should should withdraw from the race because it was so apparent that this, you know, this just could not continue. How do arguments like and I'll give you a list of them, arguments like I don't vote for debate performance.

I vote for performance in the Oval Office and it's been good. Or if you read a transcript of the debate, it's 90 percent better or those sorts of reactions. How do those strike you? of the debate, it's 90 percent better or those sorts of reactions. How do those strike you? So I don't buy the bad debate night, the kind of argument that fundamentally what we saw was not just a bad debate. This was the worst debate in the history of debates going back to 1960. And it showed not just slowness, it showed some kind, I mean, it just showed a real cognitive

impairment. We had a convicted felon who was inarticulate, who's a weak candidate, who beat Joe Biden, who, you know, I've known as a smart guy. And as for the point that he had a great first term, I think that's absolutely right. Absolutely right. But in homes across the country, we have these difficult conversations with elderly parents about taking away the car keys. And those parents, they insist, I can drive. I'm not going far. Look, I haven't had a ticket in X years. I haven't had a crash. But what happens in the last four years is not a good predictor of what's going to happen in the next four years. And if every household in the country can have the responsibility to have these difficult conversations with elderly people whom they love, then I think the Democratic Party

has to be able to have that conversation as well. So according to some reports, the conversation is being had and the reaction from the president is being described as defensive. I want to kind of call your attention back to the press conference that President Biden recently gave. He indicated that if he was told by advisers, you cannot win, that that would influence him not to proceed. In a more recent interview, I believe it was with BET. He said, if a medical professional told me, here's a medical reason why you should not or could not continue, that would influence him. Nancy Pelosi is reportedly telling him you cannot win. And it's not that covid means you can't be president. But the timing now of the covid diagnosis during the RNC after

Trump's failed assassination attempt is putting together certainly a bad week in terms of optics, I would say for President Biden. Do you think by the standards he laid out at that press conference, he has now reached a point at which he should be acknowledging he can't win? Or do you not think that the polling story is quite so clear? So, first of all, I think I wouldn't quite take the bar that he set for himself, either on polling or medical care, quite so seriously. Look, anybody in his position can't acknowledge uncertainty until the moment they announce

they're stepping out. I mean, the moment they acknowledge, well, I'll figure it out, then, you know, then nobody will take them seriously and everybody will expect them to step down. So I don't know what his, you know, what Joe and Jill are talking about privately or, you know, with Mike Donilon and others. But, you know, I think the bar that he he has no chance of winning. I mean, that's an absurd bar. I mean, there's always going to be a one or five percent or 10 percent chance that somebody is going to win. And of course, you know, that's possible in his case. He he might win. I just think it's very unlikely. And I'm not willing to take that risk for the country. You know, we with Ruth Bader Ginsburg, we took that kind of a risk and the country lost. And I don't want to take that at a time when I think Biden is right about the threat that Trump poses. And, you know, it's Congress is also at stake. This fundamentally isn't about Biden. It's about the future of the country. What do you imagine the replacement

process that would less least upset the primary voters that voted for President Biden would be in the sense that depending on who the replacement would be? And there are those who say the only real path to a replacement is Kamala Harris. At least she's part of this administration. That's not the only view. What do you imagine the process would look like to best set up whoever that person is to win in November? So I would hope that it would not be simply defaulting to Kamala Harris.

I think that she is certainly a possibility to inherit the post of nominee. But after all, you know, it's not a given that a vice president takes over as nominee. And in 2016, it obviously was not Joe Biden as vice president who became the nominee, but rather it went to Hillary Clinton, partly because she was thought to be a better nominee. Now, in fact, I think that was a miscalculation and those are possible, but I don't think it should automatically go to her. And I think that if there were an open convention, then, you know, immediately all the potential candidates would be holding press conferences, would be raising money, would be giving interviews. And by open convention, you mean Biden says, I release all of my delegates, but I'm not saying give them all to Kamala Harris. It will truly be open. That's correct.

That's correct. And then, you know, there and, you know, and I mean, there is I think there have been a lot of comparisons to, oh, this would be chaotic like 1968 and this kind of thing. I don't quite buy that. I mean, 1968 was chaotic because of the violence outside the convention, not because of the votes within it. And I think that there would be a real yearning on the part of Democrats to find a nominee who can win. I think everybody is pretty focused on the need to win. I think that Gretchen Whitmer might be the nominee who would be most likely to win. I think that if she were paired with somebody like Cory Booker, that would be a a good position to win Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania. Booker has the highest net approval ratings of any of the, you know,

plausible candidates. So, you know, I think that would be a good team. People have raised the question of whether African-American voters would be, you know, would feel left out with Kamala not getting the nod. Right. I, you know, I think that's a risk. But I think that, look, I mean, you know, four years ago, it was African-American voters who fundamentally gave the nod to Biden because they thought he was the one best able to beat Trump. And I think that, you know, whether voters are black, white or brown, if there are Democrats, they probably

want to beat Trump. It seems that there's risk at this point, no matter what. It seems at this point, it's undeniable that Joe Biden, remaining the nominee, carries with it significant risk. It seems excluding Kamala Harris from from whatever would be the new ticket has risk in and of itself. You can argue that the long if this is going to happen, the longer it takes, the more risk there is because time becomes tighter and tighter before the eventual convention and ultimately the election. If you were advising the path forward on this, do you say as soon as possible, do you say wait until the convention? What would your advice be?

So I would like to see Biden withdraw right after the Republican convention. In other words, the Republican convention fires its entire arsenal at Biden. And then, you know, it turns out he's actually not going to be the nominee after all. And then and then choose the nominee at the convention, which gives the public and delegates, you know, several weeks to take the measure of the candidates, several weeks for investigative reporters and rival researchers to dig up dirt on them. Some have been a little more vetted, some a little less vetted. But I think that that vetting, you know, is important. I think they should be under pressure and, you know, see where that goes and see what donors think. And, you know, I think that I'm sort of skeptical of the notion that just because somebody is relatively new on the scene and doesn't have a big national following that they are hopeless. I think there is a yearning for sometimes for fresh faces. We've seen sometimes

how candidates just come out of nowhere and instantly surge in the polls. You think of like Ben Carson, who nobody had heard of one week and then two weeks later, he's the, you know, the Republican favorite. And so I think that, you know, I think it is possible for Democrats to end up backing a somebody who is not necessarily a well-known national figure and then managing to unify the party behind them because of this widely felt mandate about the need to beat Biden to beat Trump. You've you've made clear what you think should happen now as far as what you expect to happen. If you I'm not a betting man, maybe you are, maybe you're not. At this point, do you think the most likely outcome here is that come November, Joe Biden

is not the Democratic nominee? I think things are shifting by the moment. I think that if I'm not a betting person either, but I think I actually just might bet right now that Biden will withdraw. Trump unfortunately underscored the Trump narrative that he is this strong guy who takes on challenges and emerges unscathed. Yeah. Meanwhile, Biden was trying to show his resilience and strength and ended up with COVID. You know, it Biden talked about how he might drop out of the Lord Almighty advised him to do so. And I just couldn't help thinking that maybe this was the Lord Almighty, you know, whispering into Biden's ear. I mean, it's interesting that Trump supporters certainly see the trajectory of the bullet as divine intervention.

So it seems everybody is sort of looking looking for messages. I guess all we can do at this point is wait. And to call it an unfortunate situation feels like an understatement, given what's riding on the election. Yeah. But, you know, compared to a few weeks ago, I do think that it is actually more likely now that Democrats will win in November and that that will be a real rebuke to Trump, to Trump into Trumpism. And if Trump loses, you know, loses the popular vote three times in a row, loses the election twice in a row, then, you know, maybe that will have some Republicans kind of going the Liz Cheney route and sort of rethinking the craziness that has occupied so much of the GOP. So there is a sliver up my, you know, my book was chasing hope. So I'm chasing hope here. And I think there is a thread of hope that one can, there's a path forward and

whether or not the country will take it. We don't know. We've been speaking with Nicholas Kristof. The new memoir is Chasing Hope, A Reporter's Life, and we will link to it. Really appreciate your time today. Thank you. Good to be with you. Take care. Many people in the audience know I speak multiple languages. I first learned Spanish when I was born in Argentina.

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slash Pacman. Rules and restrictions may apply. Get up to 60 percent off at Babel dot com slash Pacman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Pacman. Rules and restrictions may apply. The link is in the podcast notes. As I have already discussed with you, as I've already told you, there are major Democrats at this point calling for President Biden to step down as the nominee for president. I don't know what's going to happen with that. I want to discuss some new polling that is sort of separate from that because there's a media story here that I think is really interesting. Yesterday, there were all sorts of headlines about a poll that says most Democrats, most

Americans want President Biden to withdraw from the race. Fine. That is accurate. And that is what this new Associated Press and O.R.C. poll finds. But what the headlines missed, and this is why I always say critically analyze primary sources, critically analyze primary sources. If you click through to the N.O.R.C. poll itself, even there, the headline is most say Biden should withdraw from the presidential race. If we look at the actual data and this is such a lesson in media literacy, it's such a lesson in critical thinking, despite the headlines, which you can write a headline that says whatever you want. The reality is that most Americans also think Trump should withdraw from the race.

There's a difference of 13 points. But this is not the overwhelming one sided opinion that the headlines make it out to be. So let's actually look at the results. Overall, 57 percent of Americans believe that Donald Trump should drop out of the race. And overall, 70 percent of Americans believe that Joe Biden should drop out of the race. So when you see a headline, most Americans want Biden to drop out and you look at the poll. More accurate would be most Americans want both candidates to drop out. And just as accurate is my headline kind of illustrating the whole point here. would be most Americans want both candidates to drop out.

And just as accurate is my headline kind of illustrating the whole point here. You could also say, hey, look, we've got a poll. Most Americans want Trump to drop out. And obviously leaving out the Biden part also is not super accurately or completely reflective of the circumstances. So the entire point here is it is a huge story and it is a disaster that 70 percent of Americans want Biden to drop out. That that is a disaster. It raises major questions about Joe Biden's ability to win in all of these cases. There's a follow up question that I think is relevant. And the follow up question always is aside from the fact that you may think Biden should drop out if he's the nominee against

Trump, do you still vote for him? Because I know many people, many personal friends who say, I don't think Biden should be the nominee, but obviously I'm voting for the guy. And just because you think that the candidate should drop out doesn't mean you would vote for them. What I think are the more relevant differences here is that the percentage of those who believe Biden should drop out by party is actually quite similar. Sixty five percent of Democrats believe Biden should drop out. Seventy three percent of Republicans believe Biden should drop out. That's very consistent. On the other hand, with Trump, there's a much more partisan split where if you look at Trump, only 80. Let me put it a different way.

Eighty six percent of Democrats believe Trump should drop out, but only 26 percent of Republicans believe Trump should drop out. So that is a different situation. I'm not pretending that this makes it abundantly clear what should happen, when it should happen, how it should happen. But the whole point here is that we've had 24 hours now of this being reported as most Americans want Biden to drop out. And what the very poll that this comes from actually says is most Americans want both candidates to drop out. Let me mention one other poll that's relevant to this. Shortly after the June 27th debate, there was polling done and the polling found that

72 percent of Americans do not believe Joe Biden has the fitness to be president of the United States. That was the only headline that came from it in the very same poll. 50 percent of Americans or it might have been 49, it's 49 or 50 call. It's roughly 50. 50 percent of Americans believe Trump doesn't have the fitness to be president of the United States. So is it a story that 72 percent of Americans do not believe the current president has the fitness required to continue being president? It is a major story.

But just as big of a story is that even despite the acutely bad debate performance, the difference in terms of perceptions about fitness between Trump and Biden was only 22 percentage points. That's just as big of a story was completely missing from the headline. So I've said it before. I will say it again. Get the primary sources. And in this case, the primary source, which is the Associated Press N.O.R.C. poll paints a dramatically different picture than what the headlines paint. Donald Trump fell asleep apparently multiple times yesterday during the Republican National Convention. It was day three yesterday, included such luminaries of the MAGA movement as Donald

Trump's own son, Donald Trump Jr. and Donald Trump's vice presidential running mate, nearly 40 years his junior, J.D. Vance, a veritable doormat for Trump to walk all over. Here is Trump starting to do the blinking where you're trying to stay awake, but it's getting tough as J.D. Vance is delivering an absolutely mind numbingly boring speech. Ladies and gentlemen, catering to Wall Street will commit to the working man. There goes Trump. There goes Trump struggling to stay awake. And then here is Trump apparently asleep during Don Junior's speech and similar moments during which he appeared to be completely asleep during J.D. Vance's speech. Now moments during which he appeared to be completely asleep

during J.D. Vance's speech. Now, I'll be very honest with you. I kind of felt the same way in the sense that J.D. Vance's speech was completely vapid, boring, meaningless in every way. The crowd was very much not engaged with the subject matter. And it was really one of these. I'm just kind of here to repeat the things that Donald Trump has come up with and loves to say. But I'm not expressing anything new whatsoever in any way. Here's one really, really strange moment from J.D. Vance's speech that I want to play

for you during which he talked about his grandmother having 19 guns. My mamaw died shortly before I left for Iraq in 2005. And when we went through things, we found 19 loaded handguns. They were. They just shot Trump, as they love to say they and yet the crowd loves 19 loaded handguns. Now, the thing is that they were stashed all over her house, under her bed, in her closet, in the silverware drawer. Right. And we wondered what was going on. And it occurred to us that towards the end of her life, Mamaw couldn't get around so well. And so this frail old woman made sure that no matter where she was, she was within arm's length of whatever she needed. All right. So I think you get the point here. Needed 19 guns in order to have access to them

at any point in time. And then J.D. Vance took it upon himself during the speech to start attacking migrants and the crowd bloodthirsty as always starts chanting, send them back. Back of good jobs, of course, led to stagnant wages. And then the Democrats flooded this country with millions of illegal aliens. Just a reminder, the idea that Democrats did anything is, of course, not based in any reality. So citizens had to compete with people who shouldn't even be here for precious housing. Joe Biden's inflation crisis, my friends, is really an affordability crisis. And remember, of course, that Joe Biden's inflation crisis in reality, when you look at the data,

is overseeing the economy. That has had the lowest inflation rate in the post-COVID recovery era of all Western nations. In other words, if this is Biden's problem, Biden has somehow figured out a way to keep inflation lower here than in any of our cohorts among what are typically called the OECD or Western wealthier developed nations. OK, last thing here. Here's more of Trump struggling to stay awake while J.D. Vance speaks. Mr. President, I will never take for granted the trust you have put in me and what an honor

it is to help achieve the extraordinary vision that you have for this country. All right. I want to say one other thing about the Trump falling asleep. OK, if Biden did this, if Biden fell asleep in this way while his son is speaking, while Kamala Harris is speaking, you would see a thousand articles, fifteen 1500 cable news segments, doctors analyzing what might be going on, headlines of Biden falling asleep at RN at DNC, all of this stuff. There's just no stories about it when it comes to Trump. And this is the second night in a row of the RNC that he appears to fall asleep. There was one night where it was reported he fell asleep, but it was clear that everybody was kind of bowing their heads in prayer because they have a lot of prayer at the RNC. I think that that was not an accurate representation. It didn't seem

like Trump was sleeping then. It seemed like Trump fell asleep multiple times yesterday and not a single serious exploration of this from the same corporate media that did two weeks on Joe Biden's debate performance. So certainly a contrast in coverage. We have a voicemail number. That number is two one nine two. David P. Here is a caller with another media question. Why isn't corporate media all over the fact that Melania Trump is completely missing? She's missing from the campaign. She's missing from the RNC. She's missing from the rallies. She put out a written statement after Trump was shot and otherwise continues to be completely missing. And it's supposedly the party of family, right? Hi, David. I'm Christine in Rhode Island. I'm just calling

because I want to know, are you going to bring up the fact that Melania is nowhere to be found? I want to know why they're not covering the story. What's going on? I'm very, very curious. And I Googled it and you can't. There's no word on where she is. I don't know.

Just wondering. Thanks. Bye. Yeah. Listen again. Again, Melania Trump is missing. She's nowhere to be found. And corporate media is essentially silent. It is another contrast in coverage where if Jill by, you know, the story with Jill Biden right now is she's too present. If she disappeared,

the story would be, is Jill Biden missing? What's going on? You would see conspiracies that she and Hunter are doing drugs together. Who the hell knows what? She's leaving Joe Biden. She believes he should step down, but he's ignoring her. So she's decided to take a leave of absence and go to Bangkok, Thailand, who, you know, it would just be breathless, endless discussion of it.

Melania Trump's been missing for months. There are reports that the financial arrangement between Melania and Donald Trump was renegotiated so that she would even stay with him through the entire campaign, that they live completely separate lives, live. They live separately, quite, quite frankly, essentially. He gets shot. She puts out a written statement saying, oh, this is really bad and it's all bad, but remains completely missing. And we see no corporate media story about it.

Now, quite frankly, I don't care where Melania is. What I care about is the hypocrisy and double standard where this would be a major story if it were Jill Biden and also that self-proclaimed pro family party where family is the most important thing continues to support the guy with the endless affairs and the porn star hush money, multiple divorces, and is essentially essentially a single man at this point in time. So I can't convince them to cover it. It doesn't impact the way I'm going to vote. The hypocrisy is interesting to me on the bonus show today. A story that is not being told very much is that RNC ratings on the first night were down more than 20 percent from 2016. And it is

another one of these subtler trouble signals for Trump. We will discuss it. Secondly, the mayor of Paris decided to swim in the Seine River to demonstrate how safe the water is ahead of the Olympics. And we'll talk about some of these others. I'll drink the water. I'll swim just to show you how safe it all is type of stunts. And thirdly, the Biden White House is calling for a ban again on the type of firearm used to shoot Trump. Republicans don't want to hear it. They're raffling off free ones at the RNC. Yeah. All of those stories and more on today's bonus show. Sign up at join Pacman dot com. Don't miss it. And we'll be back tomorrow with the Friday show as well.