The David Pakman Show - 7/24/23: GOP polling shakeup as Pence, Trump, DeSantis all humiliated

Episode Date: July 24, 2023

-- On the Show: -- In new 2024 Republican polling, Donald Trump is down, Ron DeSantis is down, and Vivek Ramaswamy is gaining -- New polling shows Donald Trump losing to Joe Biden, even if Joe Manchin runs third party under the "No Labels" heading -- If Donald Trump were to run third party in 2024, he would immediately destroy the chances of the Republican Party -- Donald Trump might be charged like a mobster under racketeering law, based on new reporting -- Donald Trump is asked about religion and he spits out random words that mean nothing -- Former Vice President Mike Pence, a 2024 Republican presidential candidate, gives a disastrous interview to CNN as his campaign crumbles -- Russell Brand, a supposed "critical thinker," gives 2024 Republican presidential candidate Ron DeSantis a pathetic, softball interview -- David sits next to a table of MAGA extremists during his recent trip to Chicago, Illinois -- Donald Trump's mental state is questioned about another bizarre late night tirade -- Voicemail caller asks whether we will be covering the 2024 Republican presidential primary debates in the same way we covered 2020 debates -- On the Bonus Show: Why Biden isn't getting credit for the economy from some Americans, how climate change could cause home insurance meltdown, Ron DeSantis calls for possible action against Bud Light's parent company, much more... 🌎 Babbel: Get 55% off your subscription (rules & restrictions may apply): https://babbel.com/pakman 💻 Get Private Internet Access for 83% OFF + 4 months free at https://www.piavpn.com/David 🩳 SHEATH Underwear: Code PAKMAN for 20% OFF at https://sheathunderwear.com/pakman 😁 Zippix Toothpicks: Code PAKMAN10 saves you 10% at https://zippixtoothpicks.com 🧻 Reel Paper: Code PAKMAN for 30% OFF + free shipping at https://reelpaper.com/pakman 👂 MDHearing: Just $149.99 each + free charging case. Use code PAKMAN at https://mdhearing.com -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

. I'm going to start today with a number of new polling stories. Now, sometimes people say, David, why aren't you talking about the polling? The polling tells us everything we need to know about the current state of the Republican primary race. Others say, David, sir, why are you talking about polling at all? Polling is completely meaningless. Well, polling gives us a snapshot if we use good polls of what's going on right now. And if we aren't paying attention to how the things that

happen on the campaign trail impact the minds of voters, what's the point of following any of it to pretend that we don't have any such data would be strange. So we're going to talk about polling. There are three major sort of new polling stories, but every single one of these stories is limited to what the data can actually tell us. And we shouldn't go beyond that. The three stories are one Trump and DeSantis down, but Vivek Ramaswamy surging. Well that's interesting. Story number two, even if Joe Manchin runs third party, Joe Biden still beats Trump. And number three, if Trump runs third party, that's essentially

the end of the Republican Party, as we know it, at least for this election cycle. So let's start with the first of these stories. If you look at the real clear politics, let's go full screen with this. If you look at the real clear politics average of recent polling, you will notice that both of the top contenders, the purple and green lines, are seeing recent declines. The purple line at the top is Trump. The green line at the bottom is the Santas. Certainly Ron DeSantis is decline has been much more sustained and long in duration than has Trump's Trump just recently experiencing a decline. But when the numbers add up to 100 percent, if you see the top two candidates decline in polling, the interesting, obvious

and natural question is, where did that polling reallocate? And if you look very closely near the bottom, you see that every line is basically flat except for this light green line, which is Vivek Ramaswamy surging powerfully from behind into third place with an average of five point nine percent just ahead of Mike Pence and several points ahead now of Nikki Haley and Tim Scott. Chris Christie, unable to break beyond two and a half points is back down to two. OK, everybody else is essentially at zero. And by the way, Francis Suarez, the mayor of Miami, we've jokingly said he's at zero. He's at zero point zero. It's not even a rounding error. He's zero point zero. OK, so what exactly is it that is going on? The first question we should ask when

we look at an average of polls and we see someone climbing or declining is to say, well, what underlying data is that average based on? And that's a beautiful question. There are really only a couple of polls in which Vivek Ramaswamy is actually doing that well, and we're going to look at them. But if you look at the most recent primary poll, Vivek Ramaswamy is not in third place. He's way down in a multiway tie, I guess, for what is fifth place with Pence and Haley. That's not good. So the reality is this surge for Ramaswamy is just in some polling. One such poll is the recent Harris X Harris poll done by in partnership with Harvard. And there you see that, indeed, it is Trump 52, DeSantis 12 and Ramaswamy 10 in most other recent polling, including New Hampshire primary polling and Iowa.

OK, Iowa, Ramas, Ramaswamy has surged to fourth place with six percent. But it's really based on just a couple of polls. So the first realization we come to when we say let's think this through is that while his average has climbed, it's really based only on a couple of polls. They may be outliers. They may not be. We need more data to say for sure. But he certainly seems to be ascending. If you track social media mentions and prominent interviews, something is happening with Vivek Ramaswamy. Now, I'm going to have a personal story relating to Vivek Ramaswamy a little bit later in the show. Couple different articles that have opinions about what is going on here. One in New York

magazine by Ed Kilgore. Ramaswamy is enjoying a boom in polling and buzz, and it lays out its opinion. It does point out that it is only a few polls that show Ramaswamy surging. But there are a couple of different points that are being made. I think the most interesting line of this entire article is aside from his positioning in the field and his message, Rama Swami is a really good communicator. This is something Rich Lowry wrote where he says part of Rama Swami's appeal to Republican voters has been taking every interview and giving as good as he gets, demonstrating self-confidence and media skills. Sharp exchanges with Don Lemon on CNN, Chuck Todd on Meet the Press in particular, spread

widely and generated free media attention. It is absolutely undeniable that Vivek Ramos Swamy is an excellent communicator, I would argue, tied with the best of the people running on the Republican side. Trump is a good communicator in a way that appeals to his base. OK, and we can debate how relevant that is when he's going to need more than his base to win. DeSantis is a terrible communicator.

I think Chris Christie is a good communicator. Vivek Ramaswamy is as good or better. And that is a big thing. If you check out his recent appearance with The Breakfast Club, with Charlemagne, the God, some contentious race related issues. You don't have to like what Ramaswamy said necessarily, although he said some things that actually made made some sense, uncontroversially so. He is an excellent communicator. That is true. And then there is one other aspect to this.

And this was noted in a meet the press blog on NBC News dot com, which is that it mentions that Ramaswamy has found a really I want to I don't know that I can say effective yet, because effective would mean it really boosts him in the polls. He's up a few points, but he has found a way that is not necessarily turning off most Republicans of criticizing Donald Trump. And that's something that, you know, DeSantis has not really found a way for a while. He was defending Trump and then he's choosing to criticize Trump in ways that seem completely

disingenuous. Rama. Swami has found a way to say, listen, it's not that Trump didn't do some good things, but he's not the right candidate. He's not the right candidate. Now a lot of people react so negatively to Trump. I'm a much better type of Republican than Trump in a lot of ways. And Rama.

Swami is not wrong, but he's communicating that effectively. So is this surge for Rama? Swami real? I think so. The question is, to what degree will it make a difference and to what degree will it sustain? By the end of this week, we'll have some new polling data and we'll see where Vivek Ramaswamy is. Let's go to our second polling story of the day. One of the concerns about the no labels movement. I don't know if we can call it a party, but we can certainly call it a movement. One of the concerns is that if someone like Democratic Senator Joe Manchin were to run third party under the no labels heading, we can

call it whether it's a movement or a party doesn't matter. The concern is that he would be a spoiler and that he would help Donald Trump or DeSantis or the eventual Republican nominee defeat Joe Biden. That may be the case, but we have one new poll which says it is not the case. And again, polling is a snapshot of data. Right now, that gives us some insight into what is going on. The Hill reports poll shows Biden beating Trump, even if Manchin runs. A new poll shows President Biden defeating Trump in a 2024 matchup, even if Joe Manchin launches a third party bid. The Monmouth poll released Thursday found if a Manchin Huntsman ticket were to join the race as an alternative to Biden or Trump, only two percent

of voters would definitely vote for the alternative, while 14 percent would probably vote for them. Forty four percent of voters would not vote for a mansion huntsman ticket. Thirty one percent say they would probably not. Biden support drops from 47 to 37 and trumps from 40 to 28. When you have this alternative ticket, when voters were asked about a potential mansion huntsman ticket specifically, Trump goes down to I'm sorry, Biden goes to 40 and Trump goes to 34. So the important point here is obviously if an alternative ticket took two percent just from Biden, that would be very bad for Biden. But so far, it seems that a so-called unity ticket, Democrat Joe Manchin and Republican John Huntsman, if they were to run third party, they take more from Trump than from Biden.

And it would not spoil for Joe Biden. This is not that different from the early data about Robert F. Kennedy Jr., where there's the assumption that because Bobby Kennedy Jr. is a Democrat, if he runs third party or write in or something, he mostly damages Joe Biden. It's possible it will end up that way. But right now, it seems as though RFK Jr. is getting as much or more data that Manchin Huntsman or Bobby Kennedy Jr., if he ran third party, which he has not said he would do, would would would do in terms of damage to Joe Biden. All of that is good news. Why?

Because Trump becoming president again is just about the biggest disaster I can imagine from the possibilities that are out there. You could say, well, David, what if Hitler's Hitler was reincarnated and became OK? Well, from the from the realistic possibilities that we're looking at right now, Trump or DeSantis as president seem like close to the worst possible things that could happen. Let's now look at the third polling story of the day. There is a rumbling that maybe Donald Trump would run as a third party candidate if he did not win the Republican primary. Now, it's important to know that I try to operate in reality here. I respect you too much to operate in a fantasy world. And even though Trump has seen a bit of a polling decline in the last 10 days,

Trump, as of right now, is still smooth sailing towards the nomination unless something were to dramatically change. Could Trump not appearing in the first debate next month hurt him? Maybe, but probably not. As I've said before, is it possible if Trump is indicted a third, fourth, fifth, sixth time and he may be indicted a third time this week that it could become such an impediment to running the race that it hurts? Yeah, all of those things could happen. Right now, it looks like Trump will be the nominee. However, there is this question.

If Trump were not the nominee and he ran third party, what would happen? The conventional wisdom, the intuitive thing is that because so few Democrats would consider voting for Trump, if Trump ran third party or a write in candidacy, he would almost exclusively take support from Republicans, from the Republican nominee and from right leaning independents. We have our first poll and it is bonkers. This is an Ipsos Reuters poll. And it said, what if there was a three way matchup? What if there was a Biden Trump DeSantis matchup with DeSantis being the actual Republican nominee, but Trump running third party or independent in this poll. This is only one poll surveyed forty four hundred adults.

It found that in such a three way race, Biden would get thirty six. Trump would get twenty five and de sanctimonious would get only 18. Now some of us might look at this and say, how is it possible that DeSantis would win the nomination for which presumably he would need more votes than Trump and then lose to Trump in the general if Trump runs third party? Well, the idea there is that there would be lots of people who don't vote in the Republican primaries, which includes actual Republicans who just don't vote in the primaries and independents and maybe some Democrats and they would support Trump. I don't know how believable this poll is in terms of its specifics.

It could just as easily, in my mind, be Biden 36, DeSantis 25 Trump, 18. But either way, if Trump gets about a quarter of the vote as a third party candidate in states like Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Florida, Arizona, Joe Biden might have a historic electoral college victory. So my intuition has been one of the best scenarios for Democrats is for Trump to lose the nomination and to run third party. The first solid poll we have on this from a high rated pollster suggests if Trump runs third party or right in, he eliminates the possibility of a Republican president in 2024 and likely would then move the Supreme Court significantly to the left by giving Joe Biden one, maybe two, maybe more Supreme Court selections between 2025 and 2029.

I continue to think Trump should be encouraged to run third party, stoke his ego, placate him, whatever we can do. Listen, sir, the Republicans are really doing you in. Abandon them, abandon Fox and run third party and show them who's boss. Tell them whatever you have to tell them to get them to do it. It would be a boon for the Democratic Party. When you're using websites and apps, your device sends out data about you into the open, who you are, where you go, things you like. That data then gets sold around for advertising purposes, which is why every time I connect to the Internet, I use a VPN to hide my IP address. And our sponsor, Private Internet Internet access is the most trustworthy VPN on the market.

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The info is in the podcast notes. OK, that seems like an error, so I'm going to redo it one more time. That's S.H.E.A.T.H. Underwear dot com slash Pacman. Use the code Pacman for 20 percent off. The link is in the podcast notes. and grab yourself a membership. We do an extra show every day for our members to show our appreciation. This is a viewer and listener funded program. So the fact that some people sign up and get a membership is what allows us to keep doing what we're doing. And thus, we give you a

commercial free audio and video stream of the show, an extra show every day called the bonus show, the bonus show where you want to make money. Everybody else that makes money to fund themselves is bad. Easy Alex. Easy, easy, easy. He, I guess, would prefer I be selling drinkable silver or something like that, as well as access to the members only soundboard and so many other great things. Grab yourself a membership at join pacman.com. Legal experts believe that Donald Trump may be indicted and arrested for a third time this week. This could happen federally.

This could happen in Georgia. There are many possibilities. But one of the incredible new things we are looking at out of Georgia is that Trump could be charged like a mobster, the mobster. Many people say he's sort of operated as for decades in New York City, by the way. The Guardian reports Fulton County prosecutors prepare racketeering charges in Trump inquiry. The Fulton County district attorney investigating Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election results in Georgia. Remember, in Georgia was I need 11000 votes. Give me a break. In Georgia, they have developed evidence to charge a sprawling racketeering indictment

next month, according to two people briefed on the matter. Racketeering statutes in Georgia require prosecutors to show the existence of a quote enterprise and a pattern of racketeering activity that is predicated on at least two qualifying crimes. Now, understand that in simple terms, racketeering means organized criminal activity where individuals or groups are engaged in illegal operations to make money or to benefit in other ways. And that can include through the use of threats, intimidation or coercion to gain control over industries or territories. It can also include extorting people, bribes, fraud, money laundering, illegal gambling, etc..

Often this is associated with crime syndicates, organized crime, mob, mafia, etc. or gangs that are doing this. When it comes to Trump, when it comes to Trump, the Guardian article says that the D.A. Fannie Willis has evidence to pursue racketeering predicated on statutes related to influencing witnesses and computer trespass. This is extraordinarily interesting. Willis had previously said she was weighing racketeering charges in the criminal investigation. These new details about the direction and scope come as prosecutors are expected to seek indictments in the first two weeks of August.

Racketeering statutes in Georgia are more expansive than in their federal counterparts, notably because any attempt to solicit or coerce the qualifying crimes can be included as predicate acts of racketeering activity, even when those crimes cannot be indicted separately. Federally, if there are predicate acts that cannot be directly or separately indicted, they can still be included in a broader racketeering indictment. Georgia is stricter in that way, stricter in that way, because those individual predicate acts can be included in the broader indictment. And we still don't know exactly which evidence this refers to. As as many of you know, of course, we all know that there was a, quote, enterprise here in the sense that Donald Trump

and campaign staff and lawyers and Lindsey Graham and others were colluding, conspiring, use whatever term you want to put pressure on Georgia election officials to overturn, to find 11000 votes, to find some way to deny the rightful winner, Joe Biden, the electoral votes associated with the state of Georgia. This continues to compete. The Georgia investigation continues to compete for potentially the most serious charges against Trump. I said this last week, a couple of weeks ago, if you had said, where do you think the most serious charges will come from? I would have definitely said Georgia. Based on what we learned last week about the target letter sent to Trump about potential

further federal indictments, I started to think that really could be the most serious thing. Now, with the news of the possible mobster style racketeering charges, I'm sort of leaning a little bit back in the direction of Georgia. Maybe we're the most serious charges originate. We don't yet know. Maybe another indictment this week federally and within two or three weeks, another indictment at the state level, potentially from the state of Georgia. There is going to be a lot happening between now and September 1st. Hard to believe. I want to play for you a an amazing clip of the failed former President Donald Trump malfunctioning and spitting out random words when asked to talk about religion. The reason this is so funny is that Trump is

obviously not religious. And only if you're extremely gullible or a cultist, could you have fallen for the claim from Trump that he's religious? Trump found religion months before running for president. And it's an amazing thing. And as you know, Trump was once asked on MSNBC, what's your favorite Bible verse? And he said, oh, that's very personal. So I'm not going to talk about that. He doesn't know anything about the Bible. This is just amazing. Last week, Trump did this town hall with Sean Hannity on Fox News, and a woman got up and asked him, how has your faith grown since you decided to run for president? Now, the real answer is it hasn't. I'm not religious. Trump does not answer the question.

His brain seems to malfunction badly and he spits out random words. It is an unbelievable thing to watch. And by the way, the woman who asked the question does not seem impressed with Trump's answer. Take a look at this. I love this. My question is, how has your faith grown since you decided in 2015 to run for president? Yeah. And who has mattered to you in your faith journey? Very quite such a great question. You know, I've seen so much heartache and turmoil. I was

a developer and I did other things and you know, I had a wonderful, I had a wonderful life before all this stuff. I didn't know what a grand jury was. I didn't know what a subpoena, what is a subpoena? I had a wonderful life. I'm so glad they were asked me the other day, a little different question. Are you glad you did? It was so you had a great life. Are you glad you did it? Yeah. Are you glad you ran for president is a very different question than how has your faith grown? But Trump would rather ask, answer the second question, wouldn't he?

Now here's where he goes into this word salad. I couldn't be more glad. I am so happy I did it because I've made America great. We can do it again. Right now. We don't. We are not a great. Well, how is your faith grown?

We are not a great country. Wow. We are not a great country. How has your faith grown? We are not a great country. But I've gotten to know, because of this, evangelicals, I mean, I know so many people, and they feel so good about themselves and their family, and they base it on religion. I had never had that kind of an experience where I got to know so many. And Franklin Graham and Paula White, I mean, I know so many people that are so incredible religious people and not just Christians, not just evangelicals. You know, when I look at the Catholic faith, you take a look at what the FBI know, but look at what the FBI is doing to Catholics. They made them like the. How is your faith grown? The FBI is targeting

Catholics. They've made them. It's horrible. How could a Catholic ever vote for a Democrat or a guy like Biden again after the experience that they're going through? Right. But I met some of the finest people that I wouldn't have had the privilege of meeting if I weren't president and their religious leaders. And they really are incredible

people. Isn't that the best it did? Not just those are just random words. The best people. I didn't have to do this. Catholics, the FBI going after Biden. Random words about religion would have made more sense as an answer. I went to chat GPT and I said, write a random paragraph about religion.

And it spit out something that makes a lot more sense than what Trump said. It came apropos of nothing. Chat GPT could have answered this woman by saying in the embrace of Christianity, we find the profound message of love and redemption through the sacrifice of Jesus. We are reminded of the boundless grace awaiting those seeking forgiveness and salvation. And it's been my pleasure to be your president. That makes no sense at all as far as answering the woman's question, but it at least tangentially refers to the things that she was talking about, just a total brain malfunction. And remember, Trump's not religious. He doesn't know anything about religion. And that's fine. I don't need a religious president. The important story is

Trump recognized to run as a Republican. I need to pretend to be religious. And even though they initially initially resisted him in 2015 into 2016, eventually the the religious evangelical voters ultimately either said, listen, I don't believe him, but it's better than Hillary or or they actually fell for these obvious lies about Trump's religiosity. Either way, it's pretty embarrassing and pathetic. We'll have that clip I played for you on our YouTube channel, on our tick tock, on our Facebook and on our Instagram. Make sure you're following us on any of those platforms that you prefer. Let's take a very quick break. We're going to look at a Mike Pence interview, DeSantis and a lot of the other dynamics that

are in flux in this Republican primary. People in my audience trying to quit smoking or vaping, this is for you. You can't vape or smoke inside. You're tired of people seeing you put those little pouches in your lip. There is a nicotine alternative that people won't notice to help you quit. Zippix nicotine toothpicks. Our sponsor Zippix makes the only nicotine toothpick on the planet that is FDA registered. You can use it anywhere, work, restaurants, airplanes, sporting events after a meal. The toothpicks stay in a convenient little tube that goes in your pocket or on your key chain.

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You can find real paper at most Target stores and on Target dot com. Target carries a convenient 12 pack box, the perfect size to try out. Easy to find the only bamboo toilet paper, the only option in plastic free packaging. Real paper is a really easy way to fight climate change every day in your home. Make the switch today. Let's move next to a Mike Pence interview and a Ron DeSantis interview. The question that I have for everybody who's listening today is, do you think Mike Pence doesn't answer questions because he doesn't have answers or because he is determined it's not to his advantage to actually answer these questions

for whatever reason there may be? Maybe that he still wants some way to try to appeal to Trump voters if the Trump voters decide they want an alternative. Now, why they would go to Pence in that case, I don't know. That's the question that I have for you as we go through some of these clips. Here is Mike Pence being interviewed over the weekend by CNN's Dana Bash. Mike Pence first asked again, it's a question that many Republicans have been asked if the Department of Justice has evidence that Trump committed a crime, should he be charged? It's a very simple question.

It's a question about law and order. It's a fundamental question. If there's evidence of criminality, should the law and should law enforcement act on that? Here is what Mike Pence says. We appreciate it. I want to start by asking about. Thank you, Dana.

Good to be on. Thank you about your former boss. He is facing a potential third indictment over his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. You said you, quote, hope it doesn't come to that and the American people should decide his future at the ballot box. But I just want to be clear. If the Justice Department has evidence that he committed a crime related to January 6th, you do not think he should be charged? Well, look, I know I did my duty that day under the Constitution. And frankly, as we traveled across New Hampshire this week

to 10 events and communities across the state, I was deeply moved at how many people expressed their appreciation to me for the stand that we took for the state. I was deeply moved at how many people expressed their appreciation of me for the stand that we took for the Constitution. And I've said now you might be saying, David, did you cut the video? Is this Mike Pence answer to some other question like what have you been up to for the last week? No, this is his answer to the question. If there's evidence of crimes against Trump, should he be charged? Speaker 2 Times that the president's words were reckless that day. I had no right to overturn the election.

But while his words were reckless, based on what I know, I'm not yet convinced that they were criminal. I mean, I obviously wasn't there for every meeting. I would know, of course, Pence seems to be answering the question. If you were voting to convict or acquit today, what would you do? And Pence is saying, based on what I've seen publicly reported, I don't know that he committed a crime.

It's not the question, of course. The question is, if the DOJ has evidence of crimes, should Trump be charged? If the answer is no, you're essentially saying that there should be a special justice system for Trump specifically. I was busy trying to help reopen the government and the country after the covid pandemic. I was spending a fair amount of time in Georgia. Dan, as you know, I'm not going to play. He doesn't answer the question any further than to say, I don't believe that Trump did

commit crimes. Why not just answer the question? You could answer a question of this nature by saying, Dana, one of the most important principles for me is law, order and due process and that no one is above the law. However, I believe that in this particular case, whatever you could say that. But he doesn't. He talks about people he spoke to in diners in New Hampshire or whatever the case may be. After Pence says that he's not super worried about Donald Trump's rhetoric, Dana Bash brings up, you know, they wanted to hang you on January 6th. You remember that, right? Speaker 4 Talking about the potential for violence.

Donald Trump said this week, talked about how his supporters might react if he is charged and faces potential jail time. I think it's a very dangerous thing to even talk about because we do have a tremendously passionate group of voters, much more passion than they had in 2020 and much more passion than they had in 2016. I think it would be very dangerous. Does that kind of rhetoric worry you? Well, it doesn't worry me because I have I have more confidence in the American people. Really the same American people who built a gallows and wanted to hang you? Oh, wow. You're very confident. And in the people in our movement. Look, it was one of the things

that infuriated me on January six with with what I saw people around. I was really mad when they wanted to hang me and sacking the Capitol and engaging in violence against law enforcement officers, Dan. I just, I think that the, I would say not, not just the majority, but the virtually everyone in our movement are the kind of Americans who love this country are patriotic or law and order people who would never have done anything like that there or anywhere else. So I don't know, I have more confidence in the American people than that. I hear, I hear my former running mates frustration in his voice. But but I'm sure the American people will respond in our movement in a way that will express as they have every right to under the First Amendment.

This is Pence filibustering to avoid a follow up. But Dana Bash does follow up as concerns that they have about what they perceive to be unequal treatment of the law. But I don't I'm not concerned about it beyond that. It's pretty remarkable that you're not concerned about it, given the fact that they wanted to hang you on on January six. I want to move on to the issues that you're talking about. Wait a minute.

Now, wait a minute. I want to say to you, wait a minute. There's been an effort to take those that perpetrated violence on January 6th and use a broad brush to describe. Yeah. Dana, to be fair, only some of those people wanted to hang me. Not everybody wanted to hang me. OK. And then the topic of abortion comes up. And again, he just doesn't answer the question. Dana Bash asking if a woman's ultrasound shows that there is a non viable fetus, would you be OK with an exception there? Or would the woman be forced to carry the non viable pregnancy to term? And listen to what Mike Pence said. This is unbelievable. Belongs. You support banning abortion even in cases where pregnancy isn't viable.

So the question is, if a doctor looks at a woman's ultrasound, sees her fetus is missing parts of its skull and a brain, and I bring that up because it's a real scenario that a woman testified to in Texas this week, you're saying that the woman should still have to carry that child to term, even if there's no chance the baby would survive? Well, let me be clear about this, because we got to be very clear on language. Look, I'm pro-life. But I've always recognized and accepted abortions in tragic circumstances, rape, incest, the life of the mother. And

candidly, Dan, in cases like an ectopic pregnancy where the child simply cannot survive, I would assume that that would be covered by the life of the mother. Wrong swing and a miss. Not talking here about an ectopic pregnancy, which can be very dangerous to the mother. Dana Bash brings up a different scenario. This is not an imaginary scenario. This is a very real scenario. You know, the Republicans have to say, oh, these are edge cases. They barely ever happen.

They don't really happen at all. No, no, no. This is a completely real scenario that happens. Of course, it's not a majority situation, but in a country of 330 million people, it happens many, many, many times. It does not relate to the health of the mother. It's the mother is fine, but the fetus is not developing normally. It's missing critical pieces to survive.

It's not going to lead to a successful developing child at any point. And he says, well, it's probably covered. No, it's not. It's not covered by life of the mother. And again, refusing to answer the question just to answer the questions. And again, is it because he realizes that saying, yeah, the mother who is not at risk health wise should be forced to carry that child to term. It doesn't make any sense. He knows that doesn't make any sense. So he won't say it. I don't know.

It would be nice to see some questions answered. The better scenario is for no real questions to be asked. That's what we're going to look at next. Russell Brand, critical thinking, independent minded Russell Brand, interviewed, interviewed, Russell Brand interviewed, interviewed, interviewed, interviewed Ron DeSantis. And it is the most pathetic softball interview. It's almost like Russell Brand is just sucking up to Ron DeSantis and Ron DeSantis loving it. I think that this is part of an effort to make Ron DeSantis seem more, you know, cooler and hip by they give him the microphone and they set up like a podcast studio and he's appearing now with

Russell Brand. I am going to show you what a true sycophant interview looks like. Here is a fluff piece from Russell Brand opening by saying the people of Florida just really seem to love you in Florida. Recently, I was struck by the amount of pride that Floridians have in their state. You appear to be universally endorsed by the population. Not exactly. He did win. But there are millions of people in the state who voted against this guy.

Florida. Well, I'm glad you noticed that I was born and raised in Florida. And while I've always loved the state, we didn't have the same type of pride growing up that, say, people in Texas have about Texas. Right. Something has changed. We've gone anti woke. It's where pride goes to be born. But woke goes to die. Really hard hitting questions. Here's another hard hitting question from Russell Brand this time about how great of a speaker, a great orator or orator DeSantis is. Now, what is evident even after just this limited amount of time in your company is

that you are a competent orator, that you are a successful politician, that you are very appealing, that you've succeeded in Florida, succeeded at what exactly? Passing insane abortion bans, targeting specific private companies despite claiming to be against business regulation? What exactly is it that DeSantis has accomplished? Then they get on to, I guess, mildly more serious questions and they talk a little bit about January 6th. And for now on this issue, DeSantis continues to defend the failed former president, Donald Trump. I wonder what you feel in particular about the protests around January the 6th.

Yes, feelings rather than facts. Do you think that they were insurrectionists as described? Do you consider them to be protesters? What do you think about the subsequent funding that the Capitol Police received and how the Democrat Party in particular has used these events to enact more power and to control media spaces. Right. Well, I think it's ridiculous how much money that they pumped in for the Capitol Police. It was not an they're just pumping, pumping and pumping money. Insurrection. These are people that were there to attend a rally and then they were there to protest. Now it devolved and it devolved into a riot.

But the idea that this was a plan to somehow over to overthrow the government of the United States is not true. This is such a weird argument. It's like saying, listen, they were not there to kill anybody. They were there merely to do a little bit of pickpocketing and stuffing their pants full of stuff. But then all of a sudden security showed up and people started yelling. And next thing you know, a few people will kill. But they were not there for that. They were there for that. Does it really matter if eventually they decide those who choose to break the law,

go inside and do the things that they did. Hey, maybe we can stop the certification. Why does it matter at what point that happened? Now, certainly when it comes to something like murder, intent is sometimes considered. But you're talking about a crime either way. Oh, I didn't mean to kill him. I only meant to punch him. And he fell and hit his head on the cement and died. I for back home, I know of a story happened to someone I went to high school with. OK, we're talking about different levels of crimes, but the excusing everything, it's it's wild. And it's something that the media had spun up just to try to basically, you know, get as much mileage out of it and use it for for partisan and for political aims. And so I know there were a lot of people that were there who were just there.

They were just there. And they didn't have any designs on doing anything. Well, most of those people have not actually been charged. The people that have been charged have been the ones for where there is actual evidence of criminality. One more clip from this just pathetic softball interview. Here is Ron DeSantis explaining how Elon Musk is just really great. What what great journalism, huh? Elon. So I think he understands the threats posed to a free society by woke ideology and by some of the other corporate consolidations of power.

He's obviously very rich himself. Nevertheless, I like what he's done with Twitter. And he even floated maybe buying CNN. So hopefully if he did that, I bet you'd probably be a little bit more reasonable by my lights. Speaker 1 There you go. And Russell Brand just enchanted by Ron DeSantis. You know, it would be a great thing for someone like Russell Brand to actually pin DeSantis down and say, hey, listen, your primary message has been one of anti woke. Here are five, 10 polls that show most of the country agrees with the so-called woke side, not the anti woke side.

Isn't this a short sighted and poor strategy for actually winning a general election? What about the question of, hey, your criticisms of Trump have been extremely milquetoast and light touch. Are you trying to position yourself to suck up Trump supporters if Trump does himself in? And is that even really a winning strategy for the general election? What about, hey, the law you passed in Florida with regard to abortion is retrograde not only by American standards, it puts Florida

in the dark ages globally when it comes to abortion, even compared to countries you would never consider our equal in your nationalist view. Isn't this an absolute disaster? There are real questions that could be asked here. None of those questions were asked during this Russell Brand interview. And there are still people out there saying, no, Russell Brand is a great even handed objective. You know, he's not in the tank for anybody glowing. Look at this smile. Just absolutely delighted. Truly pathetic stuff. Make sure you're subscribed to the YouTube channel approaching two million with your help, of course.

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couldn't be happier, loves them. You take their free online hearing test. Their world class team of licensed audiologists will advise you how to set up your device. Your audiologist is there to provide ongoing support by video call or text. And MD hearings new model, the NEO is their smallest hearing aid ever. No one will even know it's there. Simply go to MD hearing dot com. Use the code Pacman to get any pair of hearing aids for just one hundred and fifty dollars each. They will throw in a free charging case. That's Amazon. Michael Diaz and Daniel hearing dot com. Then use code Pacman to get hearing aids for just one hundred and fifty dollars each and you'll get a free charging case. The info is in the podcast notes. So as some of you saw from my social media, I was in Chicago over the weekend for a family

event and I had the most kind of bizarre and interesting but also troubling experience at dinner one night. We're sitting there, you know, on a beautiful patio having tuna crudo and who knows what else. And I noticed that there's a table of about eight or so people very, very close behind me, just like not really treating the waitstaff that well. And as you all know, I'm very sensitive to this where when when when diners are like kind of rude in any way to waitstaff, it makes me cringe. And I notice and I was very much aware of it.

And then all of a sudden I hear a woman say, because I'm not voting for Joe Biden, that's for sure. So at this point, I kind of get interested and I start paying attention to the conversation. And it seems as though it was a table full of Republicans, certainly, but mostly MAGA type people. It was a mixed group of men and women, all roughly 60 ish years old, I would say, other than the fact that they were being rude to the, you know, people of color who were waiting on them. Normal looking.

Right. I mean, they had figured out how to put their clothes on and they spoke relatively coherent English and were native speakers, Americans, all that. So like more or less normal. And I hear because I'm not voting for Joe Biden. So now I start paying attention. One of the men then says, you know who I like, that Indian guy, certainly referring to Vivek Ramaswamy, a guy next to the to this guy says, yeah, and the Indian guy isn't part of the deep state. Oh, boy. Again, referring to Vivek Ramaswamy, one person at the table said the person I really like is Tim Scott, even though he doesn't really have a shot. And then one woman says to the woman sitting next to her. And this was like when Luke Beasley goes to the Trump rallies

and interviews the people who say Trump's still in control of the military or like the most extreme of extreme conspiracy theories. This woman in the exact same tone says to the woman sitting next to her, you know, Obama is actually calling the shots, right? They've actually admitted it. Biden isn't doing anything. Now this is all like bad enough. And what was interesting to see was that other than rudely treating the waitstaff, these

were more or less normal people that don't seem out of their mind if you just see them show up and say, hey, table for eight, please. Oh, I'd like a margarita or whatever. So the people that end up at Trump rallies, I often will say, you know, this could be your accountant. This could be your dental hygienist or whatever. It really could be. It really could be. And you don't notice how disconnected from reality they are until the topic of politics comes up. Now, this is where it really gets crazy. At some point, someone from the restaurant comes up to one of the guys at the table

and refers to him as judge. OK, now this is genuinely super scary. Is there a judge in Illinois who believes that Obama is actually in control of the country right now? Obama. I did a quick look and, you know, Chicago area judges, I didn't find a picture of the guy that was sitting at that table. The most interesting moment is the following. That guy, the one that someone referred to as judge, turns to the person sitting

next to him and says, you know, I'm a strong conservative. I really am. I vote Republican. I'm a strong conservative. I believe in conservative values. But we really don't have a good answer when they, meaning the left, say blue states are the ones with all the economic activity and blue states are the ones with the innovation and blue states are the one with the big economies and blue states are the ones that are paying in more in taxes and the red states are the ones that are taking more in taxes. We really need an answer to that. That's really a problem for us.

And it was such an interesting moment on the one hand, because this guy realized that is something we don't have an answer to. But where he fails is the answer is it just happens to be the truth. The reality is that that's the case. The blue states in the United States disproportionately subsidize the red states. The economy is overwhelmingly and disproportionately blue states rather than red states in the United States. So the answer would be maybe it's good for state economies to do some of those things that blue states do.

And of course, they're all sitting there in Illinois, which is quite a blue state that has voted Democratic for I don't know how long when it comes to the presidency. So I have no idea who this was. This guy really a judge. Was this guy an Illinois judge of some kind who was saying mostly crazy, but one thing that that made sense? I don't know, but it was certainly quite an experience. And, you know, Chicago, what can you say? Failed former President Donald Trump again went on one of these late night tirades. He has gone full conspiracy now openly retruthing memes claiming that January 6th was a government set up, staged by the government. Now, what exactly does that mean? Well, we'll talk about that in a moment. Here are the and

remember, Trump's on the verge of a third arrest, possibly fourth, possibly fifth. He's not at all on a direct path to being president again. It's not looking particularly good for Trump, although it seems like he can win the Republican nomination, doesn't seem to be doing well. It really seems to be getting to him. And the first thing he does is post this meme, which says history as the day the government staged a riot to cover up the fact that they certified a fraudulent election. The meme has a picture of Ray Epps, who now is a plaintiff in a major lawsuit against Fox News. You know, what's weird about this is when he says that January 6th was staged by the government, Trump was president at

the time. The FBI director was the guy that Trump selected at the time. The attorney general was Trump's attorney general at the time. What does it mean that the government staged it in the lead up to January 6th, given that Trump was president during the lead up to January 6th and was president on January 6th? What exactly are we supposed to glean from that? Trump then posting another meme with more or less the same text. January six will be remembered as the day the government set up a staged riot to cover up the fact that they certified a fraudulent election. So Trump open open conspiracy memes, then starting with his tirade quote. Every time you see these radical

lunatics and their partners in the fake news media talking about the trials and tribulations of President Donald J. Trump. Please remember that it is all a coordinated hoax, just like Russia, Russia, Russia, the no collusion, Mueller witch hunt, the fake dossier, FISA fraud and all of the rest in order to steal another election through prosecutorial misconduct at levels never seen before in the US. Deranged Jack Smith has already spent over twenty five thousand dollars. Remember, everything he mentions there are different, different events, different components of things that have been investigated. They are not connected amongst themselves and there's no evidence that this is a coordinated thing in any way. Trump continuing.

Just think of it between Mueller, deranged Jack Smith and congressional committees. Over 100 million dollars has been spent investigating me since I came down the escalator in Trump Tower. Biden's a criminal. No evidence and almost no money by comparison has been spent investigating him. Get smart Republicans. They are trying to steal the capital election from you. Trump continuing Merrick Garland, deranged Jack Smith and coordinating Democrat prosecutors in New York and Atlanta.

Oh, now everybody's coordinated, have become the campaign managers for the most corrupt and incompetent president in United States history, Joe Biden. Who would have thought this could happen in our once great country? And then Trump continuing an engaging caps lock. How many times can crooked Joe Biden's Department of Injustice, together with their local Democrat DAs and AGs, indict his political opponent during the course of the campaign? Do they understand the damage being done to America? It will only get worse. We must stop these monsters from further destroying our country. And then lastly, this now Trump taking a breather for the rest of the night and then picking

it up this morning, quote, Joe Biden is the most corrupt president in the history of the United States, which is being undeniably proven in the House of Representatives every single day. What is he talking about? But with all of these horrible revelations and facts, why hasn't Republican leadership in the Senate spoken up and rebuked crooked Joe Biden? I rebuke you, sir. And the radical left Democrats, fascists and Marxists for their criminal acts against our capital C country, some of them against me. How long does America have to wait for the Senate to act? And again, I would love it if they would name name and shame them, folks,

if they exist, name and shame them. Right. If you have the names. Who is a Marxist in a position of power in the United States of America? I still haven't found a single one. Michael Cohen, Trump's former personal attorney, says Trump is terrified. He uses other terms and phrases relating to Trump's diaper. OK, I'm not going to do that. But Trump is terrified is the way I would most soberly say it. And we can expect that Trump's behavior will continue to be this erratic and even more erratic if he is indicted again. The latest predictions, suggestions, surmisings

from various legal experts are that Trump could be indicted this week federally again and next week or the week after in Georgia. This could be a wild August and we will be here with you for it. Truly witnessing history. We have a voicemail number. That number is two one nine two. David P. Here's a voicemail with a very practical question about the forthcoming coverage of the Republican debates. Hey, David, I was curious to know if you plan on covering any Republican debates similar to how you did it in 2016. Looking forward to your coverage. Thanks, man. Listen, if it's up to me, we will cover all of it, starting with the Fox News debate on

August 23rd. We actually have an album coming out on August 23rd. That's a different story. We'll talk about it. But my plan is to cover all of it. What could get in the way? As you may remember, in 2020 and to some degree in 2016, there were times when big corporate media shut us down, exerting copyright strikes over our various platforms and shut us down instantly.

So it's really going to be up to our various platforms. My plan is two days before the first debate, August 23rd, we're going to check in with our YouTube rep. We're going to check in with our Twitch rep. And I'm just going to say, sirs and ma'ams, can we cover it? Will we be in any sense protected from someone at Fox News or wherever just filing a claim and shutting us down while we are alive? If the answer is yes, you can safely stream these events. You are doing commentary. You are under operating under fair use, which, of course, is something you assert in court.

You don't just say fair use on a stream and then they can't shut you down. Then my goal is to cover all of it. It is extremely important stuff to cover. So that's my plan. If it doesn't happen, it will be because we are told you will get shut down. Your channel will get shut down and there's nothing I would be able to do about that. So the latest is I plan to cover the debates. Absolutely. We have a fantastic bonus show for you today. We are going to talk about why some Americans aren't giving Joe Biden credit for the great economy that we have. Why is that the right thing? Does he deserve credit? We will discuss. Secondly, the home insurance industry could melt down due to climate change. I've alluded to this in the past, and we're going to dive deeper on today's bonus show. And thirdly,

Ron DeSantis is now wanting an investigation into Anheuser-Busch, which is Bud Light's parent company. It's small government conservatives not interfering with private business, right? Right. All of those stories and more on today's bonus show. Sign up at join Pacman dot com. We'll see you then or otherwise.