The David Pakman Show - 7/3/23: Biden whistleblower evaporates, Trump facing 45 more charges

Episode Date: July 3, 2023

-- On the Show: -- Jamie Raskin presents a transcript of the alleged Joe Biden "bribery" "whistleblower" admitting he never spoke to Joe Biden -- Fox News host Sandra Smith asks former Trump staffer Larry Kudlow to explain why the economy is actually terrible under Joe Biden, and Kudlow is unable to do so -- Donald Trump is reportedly facing up to 45 additional charges related to the classified documents fiasco -- Failed Arizona Republican gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake wildly claims that she might be Native American in a completely ridiculous interview -- The Supreme Court rules against Joe Biden's student loan forgiveness plan -- 2024 Republican presidential candidate Chris Christie appears on Fox News to relentlessly pound Donald Trump -- A number of MAGA extremists, including Roger Stone and Michael Flynn, sing the praises of Robert F Kennedy Jr -- 204 Republican presidential candidate and Republican Florida Governor Ron DeSantis uses the term "woke" 6 times in 19 seconds during a speech to the extremist group Moms for Liberty" -- Ron DeSantis's latest interview on Fox News goes bad quickly, including DeSantis eating pizza -- Voicemail caller argues that Trump is more dangerous than DeSantis if either were to become President of the United States -- On the Bonus Show: David talks about upcoming interviews and plans for the show, and much more... 💪 Athletic Greens is offering FREE year-supply of Vitamin D at https://athleticgreens.com/pakman 🏠 Watch David’s “Replace Your Mortgage” interview at https://replaceyouruniversity.com/pakman 💰 Public.com: Start getting a 5% yield on your cash at https://public.com/pakman ✅ Parcil Safety: Get 25% off with code PAKMAN at https://davidpakman.com/safety 🛌 Use code HELIXPARTNER25 for 25% OFF + 2 free pillows at https://helixsleep.com/pakman -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

Speaker 1 For months now, we've been hearing from Republicans about the Biden bribery scandal. Now, if you're wondering, David, what on earth are you talking about? What Biden bribery scandal? That is the right reaction, because it is a Biden bribery scandal with very little bribery, no evidence and a whistleblower. No one's been able to speak to for three years. We'll get to that in a moment. But the new development here is that our friend, Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin, has now released a transcript of the Ukrainian oligarch who supposedly was involved in the bribery, saying I've never even spoken to Joe Biden.

This is yet it if you're paying attention, this wouldn't be a surprise. But if you were one of the people who has been only loosely hearing about Biden bribery and maybe thinking any second now the other shoe is going to drop and we're going to find out about Joe Biden's crimes, then you are going to be quite surprised by this. Jamie, this is HuffPost. Jamie Raskin releases transcript of Ukrainian oligarch denying he talked to Joe Biden. They did the bribery, but they never spoke. Burisma co-founder Nikola Zlozhevsky, who Republicans claim bribed Biden, says in the transcript, no one from his company ever had any contacts with Vice President Biden.

That is extraordinarily clear. As the article explains, Republicans claim there is evidence a Burisma executive, apparently Slashevsky, paid Joe Biden a five million dollar bribe when he was vice president in exchange for an official favor. They've demanded the FBI hand over a document reflecting a confidential sources conversation with Slashevsky. Raskin has now countered with a document of his own, a three page transcript of a 2019 interview between Slashevsky and an acquaintance of Rudy Giuliani, who at the time was publicly sleek, seeking dirt on Biden on behalf of then President Donald Trump.

This is a quote from Slashowski in the transcript, quote, No one from Burisma ever had any contacts with Vice President Biden or people working for him during Hunter Biden's engagement. When asked if Vice President Biden had assisted him or his company in any way, Slashevsky says no. Slashevsky says no. In full disclosure, this next paragraph is relevant and then we'll move on to further analysis. In 2015, a Burisma executive named Vadim Pasharsky thanked Hunter Biden in an email for having the chance to meet Joe Biden at a charity dinner. Other guests told The New York Times they don't recall Joe Biden having any substantive conversation with Pasharsky. It was a handshake by all of the evidence that we have.

So think about the multiple layers here. Now, if I came to some of these conspiracy theorists and said, OK, the guy from Burisma says he never met Biden, they could say, well, the bribes happened through intermediaries. Even if you didn't meet Biden, people working for you could have met with people working for Joe Biden. OK, hypothetically, that's possible. Number one, we have no evidence of that. And more importantly, number two, the claim here from Slashevsky in the transcript is very clear.

No one at Burisma, not just Slashevsky, no one at Burisma has had contact with anyone working for Joe Biden. So this rules out. it precludes the possibility of this. It was intermediaries. Now, I think it is important to remember that every aspect of this story has fallen apart. It's also important to remember that if Jamie Raskin had access to this transcript, Republicans also did, because this was a transcript related to I believe it was the impeachment of Trump, one of the impeachments of Trump. So not only have Republicans like James Comer and others been insisting that this is a

thing absent evidence, Republicans, if we understand this correctly, had access to the this exact same transcript dating all the way back to at least a few years. And yet they continued to make claims like this claim. I'm sorry. They continue to make claims that they have evidence of bribery. But when they were questioned about it, they said things like the following. Here is James Comer admitting we don't even know if these supposed tapes that we have proving Biden bribery are legitimate. When will you be able to confirm if these recordings are legit? Never is that going to take? Well, I can confirm that the recordings were in the 1023. Remember, I was with Senator Grassley

when we saw the unredacted version. OK, so Grassley was saying alleged yesterday. So these recordings are legit. You can confirm they are legitimate. They were I can confirm they were listed in the 1023 that the FBI redacted. I don't know if they're legit or not, but we know that the foreign national claims he has them. There you go. So this was like one of the first of a thousand signals that this may not really be what some of these Republicans are claiming

that it is. We have alleged tapes from a purported whistleblower claiming, OK, we're like three layers removed already, and we actually have very, very little. Here is James Comer being interviewed by Sean Hannity. This is not new material. This is just kind of painting the picture for you about why we shouldn't be surprised that this is evaporating before our very eyes. Like when you pour water on cotton candy and it just becomes nothing.

Here is James Comer saying, well, yeah, the whistleblower with the tapes. We also kind of like haven't spoken to the whistleblower in three years with respect to the whistleblower in three years. With respect to the tapes, look, it mentioned in the FBI form that the oligarch had 17 tapes of Biden, two with Joe Biden, except in the bribe that he used that as an interest policy. This oligarch is a high ranking, was a high ranking member or owner of Burisma? Yes, that is exactly right. So have you had any contact with him? Unfortunately, nobody's had any contact with him for the last three years. You know, the MSNBC makes fun of me when I said that there are a lot of people that were involved in the Biden shenanigans that that are currently missing.

But with respect to this, guys, why will you not jail Biden on the basis of alleged tapes? We don't have from a whistleblower. No one's found for three years. Isn't that enough to imprison Biden for life? So again, if you've been following this show for a while, we have not been ignoring the Biden bribery story. We've been covering the Biden bribery story for what it is, which is a series of unfounded allegations with evidence they don't have from whistleblowers they can't reach. And now the latest is, hey, we have a transcript from 2019 where the guy who supposedly is going to blow the blow the roof off of this thing actually says, I haven't spoken to Biden. My staff hasn't spoken to Biden. My staff hasn't

spoken to any of Biden's staff. There is just nothing here. Joe Biden committed a crime, investigate, prosecute, jail him if that's what the law says. I'm not going to stand in the way. But right now it is all like wet cotton candy, leaving crumbs evaporating before our very eyes. Hey, here is something really, really funny. Sandra Smith is an anchor on Fox News, and she interviewed former Trump economic adviser Larry Kudlow. Larry Kudlow was asked by Sandra Smith, Hey, explain why the economy actually is terrible. I mean, OK,

the stock market's up. GDP is up. Unemployment record low. Black unemployment record low. Wage increases higher than they've been in a very long time. Consumer confidence is up. Inflation's down. Larry, it all looks so good. But explain why the economy actually sucks. And Larry Kudlow struggles to do so because the economy actually doesn't suck. Extremely unpopular. Look at any. But this is by dynamics, is it not part of by dynamics? Yes, sir. I mean, they're they're they're embracing that this is their messaging and this is their push, sir. Isn't this a woman? And now they're putting a label on it, Larry. I love the label. Middle out, lower up or lower in or whatever. Stay over your skis.

But wait, let me just tell you, we're growing at one percent because the level of consumer prices has gone up 15.6 percent since February of 2021. They didn't deliver. All right. And guess what's not going up 15% your income, your wages, real wages are getting clobbered for middle and lower middle class workers. People are working. The pandemic jobs have come back. Millions more jobs than what was lost during the pandemic have been created. Inflation is at its lowest point since April of 2021. I mean, every single one of these claims is bogus. I have a thing to do with that. But wait, I just have to bring this up. I don't I rarely interrupt you, Larry.

Please. No, I'm honored. Markets are up. OK, there's these there's there's key economic data points that are coming out that make it look like this economy. Every single piece of data we have is sure making it look like the economy's okay, Larry. He's going into a recession. And the left right now is saying, ha ha, to all those who said doom and gloom, look, GDP's up. The country's growing growing despite everybody saying that these policies are awful. So please explain that disconnect from what the White House is touting to what people are feeling and actually experiencing. The war against fossil fuels, the massive regulatory war against businesses, both large and small. OK, the tax increases on companies and the inflation record. He doesn't even know the talking points.

He does inflation down 11 months in a row, lowest since April of 2021. Businesses record profit, profit stock market up GDP up. But there's a war on fossil fuels. Well, seems like it's a failing war, Larry, or at least one that's not hurting companies. All right. So Biden's first full year in office, which is 2022, we grew at 0.9% as a terrible number. I got it. I got it. All right.

In the first quarter, now the first quarter was revised up today. I think it ticked up to almost 2% or 2%. Yeah. The Atlanta Fed GDP tracker is looking at one point. OK, so are we going into a recession? These are very sub. We should be growing. Are we going to avoid a recession? We should be growing at four, five, six percent. OK, we really shouldn't. I mean, you know, this is a bigger macroeconomic thing. But the reality is the bigger and wealthier a country gets, six percent GDP growth is not

really to be expected unless it's a rebound from a big dip. Like, for example, what we saw, I think it was Q2 2020 because of the pandemic. It was record low numbers. And then predictably Q3 of 2020 was record high because there was a bunch of recovery. It is not a reasonable expectation to say that a country the size and at the level of development of the United States in normal circumstances would grow at six percent a year. You know, we talk about China. I don't know that we actually get real numbers from China. In fact, Chinese GDP numbers, China claimed very, very rapid GDP growth for a while. And we now have reason to be skeptical of those numbers. But even if those numbers had been true, you often see countries that are in a more developing stage the way that China was 10

years ago with those numbers. But it would not be standard in the United States by any means. And this is Larry Kudlow bouncing around. Well, inflation and war on fossil fuels and oh, but this number, that number. But it was revised up. This is what it looks like when you don't really have a case to make. It's not a case to make. And then he mentioned something about AI. It's just he's all over the map. This guy's today and it's not red and it is not blue. Rich, I want to bring you in here because what's happening, though, and what I just asked Larry about is is this disconnect. You know, the markets seem OK, Larry. And people are saying, are we really are we still not answering my question?

Mark's got clobbered last year. Clobbered down 20 percent. So they come back rebound. That has nothing to do with me. This is about A.I. and technology. What? Listen, Jay Powell. What does that mean? This is about A.I. and technology. A.I. is now responsible in 2023 for low unemployment, high job creation, declining inflation, solid stock market growth, GDP growth, consumer confidence and wage increases. I would love to hear Larry Kudlow explain how AI is responsible for that. Really interesting economic views. They happen to be fantasy land nonsense.

And it is not a surprise that they're struggling because we still have problems. Nobody's saying anything's perfect. But by every traditional economic measure, things are very OK at minimum. Certainly good enough numbers to justify the reelection of whoever happens to be president. It just so happens to be Joe Biden. Staying properly nourished is just so important to feeling your best every day. Our sponsor, AG1, makes it so simple. Just a single scoop of AG1 a day. You get 75 high quality vitamins and probiotics from whole food sources. You're covered for the day. Half of Americans are deficient in vitamins A and C and magnesium. Not everybody has time to perfectly plan every

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We have now learned that special prosecutor Jack Smith might be preparing to hit Trump with forty five more charges in that classified documents case, including potentially putting those charges forward in a different venue, like, for example, New Jersey, where Trump's Bedminster Resort is located, which also appears to be the scene of some of these alleged crimes in order to get around the possibility that that Trump friendly judge Eileen Cannon might be able to run interference from Trump. What is all of this about? Well, let's explain it. First and foremost, Daily News report, Counsel Jack Smith could hit Trump with up to 45 more charges. Interesting. Trump, the 45th president, could be facing 45 more charges. Special Counsel Jack

Smith is reportedly ready to drop a hammer blow of up to 45 additional criminal charges on Trump in the classified documents case, especially if Trump friendly Judge Eileen Cannon looks set to thwart the case. This is a super important detail. Once we knew about the location of that first set, 37 felony charges against the failed former president being in South Florida. And once we knew that Judge Eileen Cannon had been randomly assigned to the case. Understandably, I and you and many others said, wait a second, someone Trump appointed is now going to be involved in the disposition of this case. That seems absolutely ridiculous. And it is ridiculous. And there are calls for her to recuse herself, et cetera. But shortly after that, legal experts realized or put forward the idea that, hey, you know what? Not all of these alleged

crimes happened in Florida. Yeah, Florida's where Mar-a-Lago is. And Trump had the bathroom document dump there and all that. But some of this stuff is very clear happened in Bedminster, New Jersey. You could charge Trump elsewhere in this case. And that is exactly what is being looked at here. The Daily News article says the ex Brooklyn prosecutor is prepared to bring additional charges in various federal jurisdictions against Trump based in part on multiple additional incriminating tapes of Trump. Now, I want to make sure that people understand this because, you know, these MAGA people will go, oh, they're just coming up with ways to go after Trump. No, no, no, no, no. First of all, federal prosecutions have latitude in terms of where you bring charges. Secondly, the tape,

right, the audio recording where Trump is heard shuffling papers like Rush Limbaugh used to do and then showing people and saying, but this is secret, this is classified. That took place in Bedminster. So it is not a stretch to say that Trump would be charged somewhere other than South Florida. Prosecutors are reading what is known as a superseding indictment, in part as a backup plan in case Cannon seeks to stall or derail the case against Trump. That was filed in the Southern District of Florida, in which Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort

home is located. New charges could come in the coming weeks. One likely venue for these additional charges would be New Jersey because Trump allegedly kept and even showed off some of the highly classified documents to his aides at his Bedminster Golf Resort. Smith's team is poised to stack on an additional 30 to 45 charges on Trump, as well as top aides based on what the paper described as fresh evidence that is not yet publicly known, including more tapes of Trump. So there are even more recordings that have not yet been released, even though we, of course, have some

of the tapes that have been released here as well. Important to also mention this is separate from the potentially forthcoming federal charges against Trump related to the January 6th Trump riot insurrection, for which the January 6th committee of the last Congress referred criminal charges to the Justice Department. That's being investigated. We have the state charges in Georgia, which, quite frankly, if you zoom out of all of this, the state charges in Georgia may end up being the most serious and or the most consequential for Trump. We're waiting on that.

We'll know about it out of Georgia sometime between middle of July into beginning of September, I believe it was. Those are the dates. So this is this is we are nowhere close to we are nowhere close to the end of this entire thing. I you know, because we're so patriotic here on The David Pakman Show, wouldn't it be great if 45 got 45 more charges dumped against him during Fourth of July week. I think that would be a very exciting thing. Hey, remember how Trump referred endlessly to Elizabeth Warren as

Pocahontas because of the belief that Elizabeth Warren had based on family history and stories that she was part Native American? You're you may or may not believe this failed Republican gubernatorial candidate Carrie Lake now says she's probably Native American. Now, I I'm not taking any position on whether Carrie Lake is or isn't Native American. I had people writing to me saying, you know, from her look, she may be Native American. I am not touching that with a 10 foot pole. I have no idea if Carrie Lake is Native American. I have no idea if Carrie Lake believes she's Native American or looks Native. I'm not getting anywhere near that. But the idea that now she is putting forth, I probably am Native American is hilarious after all of the fiasco around Elizabeth Warren

supposedly wanting to use her Native American, all that stuff. Harvard admissions. It was all debunked. OK, let's listen to this. Here's Carrie Lake, who lost who lost that race. OK, very important to remember. She lost in that she got fewer votes than her opponent. Here she is speaking to Eric Metaxas about Choctaw blood or whether she's black. And then she goes, actually, I do think I'm Native American. Nobody's more all in than you are. And I it just thrills me. And of course, I secretly hope that you will be President Trump's vice presidential candidate. Do you have any like Choctaw blood or African-American in your back? Anything like that that would, you know.

I'm just American. I'm a little bit of everything. And we probably do have a little bit of Native American in our family because of where my grandparents are from in Wisconsin, I know. But I never I'm just an American. I'm a mixture of everything. And I always consider I'm going to guess Chickasaw. No, I honestly you. What does that even mean? You're such a bright spot, you know, in in in in the political future of the country. And what are you talking about? This guy, by the way, if you're not familiar with this Eric Metaxas guy, imagine how deluded and disconnected from reality you have to be to look at the panorama of look at the landscape of

Republican candidates and and people, you know, hangers on and say that Carrie Lake is the bright spot in the American right wing. That's crazy. Then Carrie Lake, of course, told the story of how a very powerful person tried to bribe her out of politics. And this is a story we all doubt. Seems like one of these. They came to me with tears in their eyes stories. And every time she tells it, she tells it a little bit differently. And I don't know if I told you this. I didn't put it in the book because it kind of happened after I'd finished writing it. I probably should have added it. But a couple months ago, I had a call from a very powerful person in Arizona and said, I have to come over and talk to you in person. This can't be done on the phone, which I was like, OK, OK, shows up at my door

to offer me a prestigious job title. Right, a large salary and a position on a board if I will just promise to not run in this next election, 24. Oh, sweet. And I said, really? I said, are you serious? I walked away from a prestigious job. I walked away from money. I'm not motivated by that. I don't know what I'm going to do. Then we talked a little longer. I finally got him out of the house. That's actually funny when Metaxas goes, do you know why? And it's like he's just he's just being conversational. But it's a great question. Why on earth she lost? What's there's no big threat from Carrie Lake right now. I mean, sure, Arizona is a very 50 50 state. If she runs for Senate, which we'll look at her talking about, she could win. But what she just lost. Why would you immediately try to bribe

her out of politics? It makes no sense. Speaker 1 And I said he said, how much would it take? What would it take just just because the Chinese have deep pockets? Come on, Kerry, for two years is just don't get on. They don't want me on the ballot. They don't want Trump on the ballot because they know we the people will show up and vote in droves. And they know that if they pull another rigged election, first of all, it's gonna be a lot harder because now we know every which way that they're cheating. Right. Every single one of which courts said didn't happen. And I think they know they can't pull another one like that. So that makes me think I need to stay in politics as dirty as it is. I haven't decided what I'm going to do next. There is a Senate seat that's going to be up for grabs this go around. Oh,

boy. And right now we have Kyrsten Sinema, who votes with Joe Biden 95 percent of the time. That's not representative what the people want. All right. And then so let's hear from just another interview on this Senate thing. This is a different interview where Carrie Lake was asked about the whole Senate thing and she acts like she's a martyr. Listen, it's not that she wants to continually inject herself into politics. It's that she might have to. The book is available wherever books are sold. Unafraid. But I got to like, what are you going to do? This book is great. You're going to be on a book tour. And but there's a Senate seat with your name on it. Some people think there's a big opening potentially, you know, competitive race there. Are you going to do it? I'm considering it. I really seriously am.

I need to get through this. I'm looking at it. I know that all the polling is showing that we have a real advantage here. And with the three way race, I mean, Arizona needs somebody who's going to go to D.C. and represent the people. Right. We have a current senator in that seat who is voting with Biden 95 percent of the time. We have a socialist running on the Democrat ticket who is. All right. So anyway, this is the same. These are she as you can see in every interview, she uses the same lines. You've got someone voting for with Biden 95 percent of the time. So she may just have to do it. She may have no choice. Potentially Native American Carrie Lake might not be ending her political career just yet. This long national nightmare will not yet be over. We're going to keep an eye on it and you can be sure that she

will claim she won, even if she loses again. Remember, all of our clips will be on YouTube. They will be on TikTok. They will be on Facebook. They will be on Instagram. And most recently, one of these clips from today will be on Snapchat, which is a whole other world altogether. Don't even get me started on that. Are you tired of getting crushed in the market or the volatility? There is some good news, which is that Treasury yields are surging. You can now get a whopping five percent yield on Treasury bills that is higher than any high yield savings account that I have seen.

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Friday, rejecting a program aimed at delivering up to twenty thousand dollars of relief to millions of borrowers struggling with outstanding debt. The decision was six three. Chief Justice John Roberts wrote for the conservative supermajority. This will become an issue in twenty twenty four. Biden can try to galvanize liberals by claiming the conservative court prevented him from delivering debt relief to voters. Republicans are celebrating the ruling as a defeat for a bailout plan. Republican led states and conservatives challenging the program say it's an unlawful attempt to

erase an estimated four hundred and thirty billion dollars of federal student loan debt under the guise of the pandemic. Roberts said the Biden administration and secretary of education rewrote the law that it cannot fairly be called a waiver. It not only nullifies existing provisions, but augments and expands them dramatically. However, broad the meaning of waiver modify, that language cannot authorize the kind of exhaustive rewriting of the statute that has taken place here. I have to tell you, this is not surprising. Every time we we talked about this, for example, on the bonus show, a David Pakman membership costs six bucks a month. Yeah. Pat and I both said. This is shaky. While we agree with the policy, this legal basis is shaky. And people would call in during live

calls and say, David, should I stop paying my student loans? I owe nine grand. Should I stop paying them? Because it might all get paid off. And I said, don't take that advice from me. It's not obvious to me that this is going to survive. And it's not obvious to me that it makes sense to allow interest to continue accumulating while you wait for this to work its way through the courts. And indeed, this was the decision. So listen, the Supreme Court has handed Joe Biden a number of defeats by now. The most important the most important takeaway and realization from all of this is none of this would be happening if Hillary Clinton had defeated Donald Trump in 2016. And I know that there are people in my audience who don't want to hear this. There are people

who stayed home or voted, wrote someone in or whatever in 2016 under the guise that Hillary's just too conservative for me. Yeah, OK, Trump's a clown, but not that different from Hillary Clinton. And there were people like me and others who were saying that's really dangerous. We're not just pretending that the Supreme Court issue could be a major issue. It really could. Look now, Roe v. Wade, student loans. I can't even give you the full list. Most of this stuff doesn't happen if Hillary Clinton wins in 2016 with rumors now of potentially multiple retirements in the Supreme Court upcoming. I am going to restate again and again that

the Supreme Court could be a major issue in the next presidential term. And it is really important that we remember that. And we take 2016 as a lesson as far as that goes. So this is the Supreme Court's decision. This is a loss for Joe Biden. It is not a massive surprise, but it is a reminder about the importance of the Supreme Court. And we've got a horrible Supreme Court right now. I mean, it's the reality. We have a horrible Supreme Court. We will continue following it. We will see what other venues there may be, if any, for Joe Biden to do student loan forgiveness. There are he could have done it with a different legal justification. We've talked about it before. We will talk about it again.

But that is the Supreme Court's decision. Let's talk now about 2024 Republican presidential candidate Chris Christie. The reason I talk about Chris Christie is not because all of a sudden I'm a Republican. The reason I talk about Chris Christie is not because I think he's going to win the Republican nomination. I will get to that in a moment. The reason I talk about Chris Christie is because the contrast between a Republican who is connected to the real world, but whom I disagree with on policy and the rest of these clowns could not be a starker contrast today. Chris Christie appeared on Fox News a couple of days ago, and it is remarkable. Yes, he's pounding Trump.

He's going after Trump. He's ridiculing Trump. He's saying things about Trump that the rest of them aren't willing to say. But it is remarkable how different his entire demeanor and approach is to this Republican primary. He's almost certainly not going to win. And we'll talk about that in a moment. But listen to Christie say things that are not controversial and say them in a way that they all should be saying them.

But nobody's willing to do it other than Chris Christie. But my view is he's let us down. Didn't build the wall. Mexico didn't pay for it. Didn't repeal and replace Obamacare like he said he would. Say he was gonna balance the budget, he didn't. And you mentioned debates. Look, we should have debates and everyone should be at the debates and folks should go to chriscristie.com, donate and make sure I'm on the stage. But Donald Trump should be on that stage too. If you want the Republican nomination, the Republican voters have the right to see us right in those cameras.

And have us compare. And then let them choose. And American people are good at that, and we did, but they need all the information. And that's what we want to give them. The fact is, if polls... You don't put my stock into the polling. Well, what I put, that's what it is today.

You know what they ask you, how they ask those questions? You've been called by pollsters. They say, if the election were held today. Well, if the election were held today, I'd be shocked. Because the first election is not going to be in January in Iowa. January of 2024. We're six, seven months away from that now.

So let's run a campaign. I don't think we crown kings in America. You've got to work for it. And Donald Trump needs to work for this nomination. He becomes the nominee. Do y'all become friends again? Does he offer your cabinet post again? Do y'all clean this up if he becomes the nominee? I don't think so.

I think some of the stuff he's called me over the last few months, I don't think that's going to happen. And that's sad. But it is the truth of the matter. And it's his doing. But you're not closing the door to voting for him. No, I'm saying I can't support him. You can't.

You won't vote for him. I can't support either one of them. OK. Not Biden or Trump, because they're not competent and qualified to be president for different reasons. Joe Biden predominantly because of his age and what we've seen on TV. And Donald Trump, because I don't believe he can win, Lawrence, when you're under this much criminal scrutiny and the conduct, by the way, that he's engaged in,

taking those documents, keeping them in his home, making sure that his own lawyers didn't get to see all of them, not telling the truth to the Justice Department when they wanted those documents back, and now saying that what he was saying on a tape when he's waving around document. Why was lying then? Well, I think Mama Jones and I know my mom would say the same thing. You're lying once. I'm not going to believe the other time, too.

We need to have someone who's honest, direct and who can beat the Democrats because I'm tired of losing Chris. All right. So listen, this is not remarkable stuff. What's remarkable is how remarkable, unremarkable stuff sounds from Chris Christie because no one else is willing to say this stuff. Now it's not lost on me that I'm sure it's extremely triggering for Trump to turn on Fox News, which at one point was extremely friendly to him, as Trump says.

And now they allow other candidates to express their views. It's not even that Fox News is no longer friendly to Trump. It's just other candidates have other views and they think they're better than Trump. This is not about glorifying Chris Christie as the moral whatever. Christie stood behind Trump literally and metaphorically for years and went with all of the stuff. And now all of a sudden he's willing to say these things. But still, it is a good thing to meet Maga where they are.

And many of them are still watching Fox News. And that's why it is a great thing to have Chris Christie saying these things. It is not good for Trump to have a guy capable of coherent and provocative soundbites attacking Trump. It's not good for Trump. Will it make a difference? I don't know. And this is where I get to. OK, I want to have this conversation with you as well. People write to me. And I see the comments and they say, David, you loser. Chris Christie's not going to win. I never said Chris Christie was going to win. I'm not supporting Chris Christie. It's almost like just because I recognize that Chris Christie is the only sane Republican running a normal campaign, I want him to win. And therefore, if he loses, you've defeated me.

I'm not voting for any of these people, but it is crystal clear, crystal clear that if you said one of these Republicans is going to be the next president, it's not going to be by who do you go with? It is obvious I go with Chris Christie. Now, some people will write in and say, David, how are you defending Christie, who's so corrupt? I'm not defending Christie. What I'm telling you is he's the only candidate willing to tell the truth about Trump who's not playing coy, who isn't angling for either a VP slot or Trump's MAGA voters or whatever the case may be. Now, he's obviously not going to win as a result. Chris Christie went from polling one percent

to two point five percent. Now he's down to two point four percent and an average of recent polls. Two point four is not super strong, OK, even if it's more than double where you started. So they're it's really an indictment of MAGA that there is essentially no appetite, no appetite for just a normal Republican who would do things they claim to like. I think Chris Christie would probably try to lower the taxes of the people Republicans try to lower taxes for. And, you know, he said he wanted the wall built. He's mad at Trump because Trump didn't build the wall. I mean, it's like he would more or less do the things I thought Republicans wanted. And he has no chance. It is an incredible indictment of the modern Republican Party. Speaking now on the Democratic side, but still talking about MAGA, there are a hell of a lot of MAGA lunatics that really like Bobby Kennedy Jr.

Trump advisers past and present respect and celebrate and revere Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Trump advisers past and present respect and celebrate and revere Robert F. Kennedy Jr. saying he's a patriot. He's doing a great service to our country. He's bringing up important issues related to vaccines and other things. I'm going to play a clip for you. We will talk about whether it's a fallacy to do guilt by association. You all know my views about Bobby Kennedy Jr. Some in the audience say I'm too soft on him. Some of the audience say I'm too hard on him. I just call it like it is, my friends. But let's listen to what Roger Stone and Michael Flynn and Trump's lawyer Alina Haba and others have to say about Bobby Kennedy Jr. And then let's really ask ourselves the most

important question. Why do they say these things about Bobby Kennedy Jr.? Let's listen. Let's think. I'm a great admirer of Robert Kennedy. He's a friend of mine. I am a fan of Bobby Kennedy. So I want people to know that I actually look at him and I think he's one of those like I actually think I have a lot in common with him because I'm a former Democrat.

I just changed my party affiliation two years ago. If I were a Democrat, I'd certainly vote for him. If I had any money, I'd send him a contribution, but I don't. I think RFK Jr. is doing a great service to our country. I am disappointed that his party is so corrupted. I mean, he's the perfect example of a true American Democrat, a true patriot who loves this country. I think he is potentially an extraordinarily attractive candidate. At the end of the day, however, I believe that his candidacy may serve the purpose of softening Joe Biden or whoever the Democratic nominee is for the candidacy and defeat by the man who will clearly be, no matter what the courts do, the Republican nominee for president, Donald J. Trump.

I think it will help in the end soften Joe Biden up for his defeat by Donald Trump in the general election. He actually has a lot of a lot of views that are actually, I think, I think very beneficial across the board. I'm excited that he I mean, he's he's shining the light inside the Democrat Party. Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s campaign is getting traction for one reason. He's speaking truth to power. So those are all deplorable individuals. And then, of course, I played this very short clip for you last week. Trump also singing the praises of Bobby Kennedy Jr.. Then we'll talk about what this all means.

I will say RFK Jr., who I've known not very well, but I've known for a while and I respect him. A lot of people respect him. He's got some some very important points to be made. He's a respected person. So listen, there are two elements to this. There are two really important things to this. First of all, this, you know, when Bobby Kennedy Jr. was asked recently about Trump supports you, what do you think? And he says, no, I'm proud of that. I think that's great because we're reaching across the aisle or whatever. The reality is that

when really deplorable people like what you're doing, it should immediately make you ask a two part question. One, are my views also deplorable? Does the deplorable person like what I say because what I say is deplorable or does the deplorable person like what I say or claim to like it because I'm useful to them in some way? And with Bobby Kennedy Jr., the answer, sadly, in a sense, is both. OK, now let's talk a little bit about logical fallacies. I did this last week. I understand that, strictly speaking, guilt by association is a logical fallacy, saying Bobby Kennedy Jr. is bad because Trump likes him. That is guilt by association.

And strictly speaking, it is a logical fallacy. However, we have to be able to distinguish when guilt by association should lead us down a path of investigation or not. If I were to say and I gave these examples last week, Hitler breathed oxygen. So oxygen is bad. That doesn't make any sense. You'd say, David, sir, we need oxygen, please.

If I were to say Hitler had a doctor who drugged him up with every drug in the world and was just a clown. So therefore, doctors in general can't be trusted. That's silly. Wouldn't make any sense. But if I were to say Hitler liked Mussolini and Franco in Italy and Spain, so that should make me skeptical of Mussolini and Franco. That makes sense. However, I should still investigate it and I should say, am I right to be skeptical about Mussolini and Franco? I would research and I would go, yes, I am. We have looked into every aspect of Bobby Kennedy Junior's platform or candidacy or whatever. And of course, extraordinarily concerning views about vaccines and autism, foreign policy, weird statements about Russia and China, weird

China's ethnic racist bioweapon or whatever statements about the 2020 election, the health policy roundtable with absolute medical lunatics on and on and on. And when it comes to Bobby Kennedy Jr., these folks like him for two different reasons. Number one. He shares some of their views when it comes to things like vaccines and Russia, Ukraine to a degree, et cetera. So in a sense, there is an allegiance or a similarity when it comes to political positions. But in addition to that, and this is really important to understand, Steve Bannon has been talking up Bobby Kennedy Jr. and his conspiracy theories for a while. Steve Bannon isn't stupid. And Steve Bannon sees Bobby Kennedy Jr. as an agent of chaos. He can generate chaos.

He can generate chaos by potentially being a stumbling block for Joe Biden on the path to his re nomination. He could be a stumbling block for media that might not be interested in a contested Democratic primary or whatever the might not be interested in a contested Democratic primary or whatever the case may be. This is a huge part of why these folks are now saying Bobby Kennedy Jr. It's absolutely great stuff. So the more we understand about what's going on, the more concerned it should make us.

But not just because these people like Bobby Kennedy Jr., but because of the positions he holds on many issues, as I've outlined to you over the last several weeks. I love my Helix sleep mattress. I've been sleeping on Helix mattresses for years now, which is why I asked them to be a sponsor. You actually take their famous sleep quiz takes Thank you so much for joining us today. A lot of people don't know where to start when buying a mattress. I certainly didn't. Their newest collection of mattresses called Helix Elite come with a built in Glaciotex layer to keep you cool at night, an extra layer of foam for pressure relief and thousands of extra micro coils for best in class support and durability. All of their mattresses ship right to your door. Totally free. They come with a 10 or 15 year warranty and you get 100 nights to decide if you like it. My audience also gets a whopping 20 percent off all orders,

plus two free pillows. Go to Helix Sleep dot com slash Pacman. That's H.E.L.I.X. Sleep dot com slash Pacman for 20 percent off and two free pillows. The link is in the podcast notes. Republican Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who also is running for the 2024 Republican nomination, suffered a woke coma again. This happens when he uncontrollably repeats the word woke multiple times. This one, I believe, setting a record in 19 seconds, repeating the word woke multiple times. This one, I believe, setting a record in 19 seconds, repeating the word woke six times. This was during a speech late last week for the

extremist group Moms for Liberty's conference. And I want to make the strongest argument I want to make for you here is that this is bad strategy. I think the anti woke stuff is a loser for de sanctimonious. Let's listen to what he had to say. It's mostly just the word woke. Speaker 4 Florida. We fought the woke all across the board. One is president. I will fight the woke in the corporations. I will fight the woke in the schools. I will fight the woke in the halls of Congress for we will never, ever surrender to the woke mob. We are going to leave woke ideology in the dustbin of history. There it is, folks. Six wokes in just 19 seconds. We could talk about how this guy is an uncharismatic clown, but we'll have more time for that in the next segment about his

latest interview with Fox News. OK, so I won't do that now. We could talk about how Florida is very mediocre. It's not that Florida is terrible. It's just in most metrics, Florida is right in the middle. The Florida success story that Ron DeSantis claims was that rose like a phoenix over the horizon of success in Florida is a very mediocre story. We've talked about that before. We're not going to talk about that either. What I want to talk about is that this anti woke stuff is bad strategy. It definitely can't win you a national election. And it's not even clear that it can win you a Republican primary either. Yes, DeSantis is a doofus. His woke obsession doesn't make any sense. But look at this. Look at these numbers. When you actually talk to Americans, most Americans, this is an ABC. I'm sorry. USA Today Ipsos poll finds most Americans view wokeness as a good thing. Fifty six percent of Americans say that to be woke means that you're

informed and aware of social injustices. That's more or less the definition I've been using. Fifty six percent of Americans have that positive view of wokeness. Thirty nine percent of Americans say wokeness is being overly political and policing the speech of others. That's a pretty sizable margin, right? Fifty six to thirty nine, a 17 point margin for wokeness being a good thing is quite remarkable, given that the country is 51 to forty nine, 52 to 48 on so many different issues. That's not a sign that running an anti woke campaign is going to win you a general election.

We have another poll that's older. It's a Hill Harris X poll. That one found that a third of the country says I am woke. A quarter of the country says I am not woke. 13 percent don't know. And 31 percent don't know what wokeness is. OK, it's a small margin, right? A third to a quarter, roughly 33 to 25. But that's another poll that says, actually, you're more likely to be woke than to not be woke in the United States.

And then I had this other poll I told you about not that long ago, the gist of which was if you ask people, hey, do you think we've done enough to help trans people or have we not done enough or have we done too much? More than half the country believes we have either done the right amount or not enough. A minority of the country believes we have done too much to make trans people feel welcome and comfortable, which would be like the anti-woke position. And you ask them this on racial inequality, LGBT, gay marriage, et cetera. You get the anti-woke view in the minority on every single one of these questions. So for a while, we've had a lot of good evidence

that anti woke is not going to win you a national campaign. It's not even clear that it's going to win Ron the Republican nomination. And the reason I say that is just look at the numbers. If you look at this is a poll. This is a rather a chart average polling data for the Republican primary. The top line, the guy leading is Trump, the purple line, the green line in the middle of the screen is DeSantis. And as you see, he's been bouncing between 20 and 24 percent since he announced he's going hard anti woke and it's not really getting him very much in terms of new polling support. So obviously it's not going to work nationally. It doesn't even seem like the anti woke stuff is

getting traction for DeSantis at the Republican primary level. And it really shouldn't, given that wokeness actually seems to be winning. Let's now go to the lack of charisma of Ron DeSantis. And we're not going to spend a ton of time on this. Ron DeSantis was interviewed a couple of nights ago by Jesse Watters. Jesse Watters is a Fox News host who I'm aware that he now is going to be in prime time on Fox News, thanks to the firing of Tucker Carlson and a sort of reorganization that went on. And Jesse Watters is horrible. But Ron DeSantis is so painfully awkward and cringy. Here is DeSantis claiming the left doesn't want people to be happy and he's not really making a very good case that that's the truth. And after all this, why does the government do that?

If they just want to control, you have an itch on the left. They want to control behavior. A lot. We saw the same thing with COVID. A lot of that wasn't about your health. It was about they wanted to control your behavior. So they just don't want people to be happy and be able to make their own decisions. They were going after gas stoves in Florida. We made them tax free. We may have to do some incentives for the coal fired pizza because you know what? We'll take it. They're going to want us to microwave this pizza. So you're OK. And there's Ron DeSantis eating pizza, eating pizza. You know, you're really angering liberals when you eat pizza on Fox News from a studio in New York City. This is supposed to make the guy likable in some way. This is supposed

to show us that he's right on some policy issue. It is just pathetic. Then the topic, by the way, of Gavin Newsom came up, came up, came up. And Gavin Newsom is the Democratic governor of California who has been trolling DeSantis very hard, very hard. And DeSantis actually has to lie to criticize California, which they love to do. What's with Gavin Newsom? Well, you know, I was born and raised in Florida. I never saw a California license plate my whole life in Florida. And why would you? Why would I? Now I know people are going to write to me and say, David, what is wrong with Ron DeSantis? Why? Why does his head shake like that? I am going to remind everybody, to our knowledge, Ron DeSantis does not have a condition that would

cause any kind of shaking or tremors, nothing Parkinsonian. He doesn't have tardive dyskinesia or any of that. If he did, we would not be pointing this out. This is a move that Ron DeSantis does to seem engaging and laid back. He just his his head moves like a bobblehead and he could float on out of the screen if you're not careful. It's a very weird trait. And he needs he needs some kind of a personality transplant. Trump was right. Believe a San Diego or Los Angeles. And yet, since I've been governor, we've seen a huge rush of people moving clear across the country to leave California, leave San Francisco,

leave LA to come to Florida. Nobody, no, California had never lost population for its entire history. Lie. Okay. So that's not true. And again, it's like states sometimes gain population. Sometimes they lose. It can happen for a number of different reasons. It doesn't have to be because of a woke dystopia or whatever the case may be. But there were multiple years in the 90s when California lost population. He's hanging his hat on. This is a new thing. It's not true until he became governor. And so I think he sees people leaving. I think he sees that there's deterioration and I think he's lashing out. Do you think Newsom is trying to be next in line and jump Kamala Harris? Well, you know, what I told him is stop messing around on the sidelines, like either do it or not.

Like, are you going to take on Joe? If so, step into the ring and do it. And so I think he's kind of maneuvering in the in the background. But, you know, that would be interesting to see if Biden doesn't ultimately make it, how that resolves itself. Do you think Biden is going to make it? Look, I think that people want to move on from Biden. I think that's very, very clear. I don't know if he's going to get that message. And so he may very well try to stick it out. We'll be ready for whoever, because I think the thing about the Democrat Party is, yeah, Biden's got huge problems. We all know that. But we talk about this corruption.

What does he have going for him? Harris is his impeachment insurance. No matter what Biden does, nobody wants Harris. And so it's almost like just let him finish out. By the way, let him finish rather than impeaching. Wouldn't it be good for there to be something to impeach Joe Biden over? DeSantis, like as a matter of political strategy, I don't know that impeaching him makes sense. How about is there any reason to impeach him? It's sort of like the stuff with the crimes.

Does it matter that there's no evidence of criminality nor charges nor an indictment? No, it's just like, do we want to charge him or not, is really all that matters at this point with these people. So DeSantis just making very little sense. And I'll be honest, I don't know who DeSantis actually is getting any traction with. It's certainly not the broader Republican electorate. And when he goes to a diner, it's extremely awkward. I don't know who likes DeSantis here. Actually, there's a woman that goes to my gym who's been wearing a DeSantis tank top for a while. So I guess I could ask her

here is DeSantis weighing in on the loyalty question that Donald Trump has brought up so many times. Trump says you're disloyal. Do you feel that way? Disloyal to who? I mean, you know, politicians have to earn support. They're not entitled to support. I did a lot for him in 2016 and 2020, by the way, was happy to do it.

Oh, yeah. But at the end of the day, you know, I'm loyal to my family, to our Constitution and to the good Lord. And I have a vision. I think I'm the guy that can beat Biden. But even more importantly, no more excuses on these issues. I'm going to get all of this stuff done. We'll have a plan on day one to get going and get cracking and give you two great terms for eight years and really get the country on a fundamentally different path. I think I'm the guy to do it. And so I have the responsibility to step up and serve. There you go.

And you can really feel the energy and the enthusiasm and the fact that DeSantis really is going to get all of these things done, isn't he? You can really just tell. So listen, it's the entire loyalty thing there. These are both clowns when it comes to loyalty. I'm talking about Trump and DeSantis. Trump's view is DeSantis isn't loyal because he decided to run against Trump after Trump supported him. This is politics. OK, let's pull up our big boy pants and let's realize that this is politics. This isn't, you know, it's not gin rummy or whatever. This is this is just kind of the way it is. And if

you're going to be this much of a snowflake, Trump, I'm talking about, it's going to be tough to have success in other areas. And Trump is, of course, struggling for success from the point of view of DeSantis. The idea of invoking God and saying my loyalty is to God rather than to Trump. Again, it's an I know it's a small thing, but it's another one of these examples of how they constantly have to drag in religion to civil government positions. He's running for a position in civil government, should have nothing to do whatsoever with God, but he just can't resist. We have a voicemail number. That number is two one nine two. David P. Here's a question based on something our friends Sam and Emma said over on the

majority report. Hi, David. I'm watching Emma Bigland and Sam Seder on their show. And and they're saying that if it were the only two choices, the lesser of two evils was Trump and DeSantis. Yep. They would vote Trump. And that's that seems ridiculous to me. No, no, no, no. I agree with that. Listen, if you came to me and you said the next president will be Trump or DeSantis, I get that Trump's aspirations are absolutely insane. But DeSantis is much more likely to achieve many of the things he wants to

do. I know the January 6th insurrection crazy. So I get it. I get it. But many of the things Trump would like to do, he will fail to do. DeSantis is likely to succeed. And thus, I do believe Trump is the less dangerous candidate than DeSantis. I'm glad to hear conflicting or disagreements from people in the audience. We have conflicting thoughts or disagreement from the audience. We have such a great bonus show for you today. Just get it. Get get the bonus show. It's very important.

David Pakman membership costs six bucks a month. Exactly. Join Pakman dot com coupon code indicted again. We will see you then or otherwise Wednesday. We're off tomorrow for the Fourth of July.