The David Pakman Show - 8/21/23: GOP debates this week as Trump still leads, DeSantis collapses

Episode Date: August 21, 2023

-- On the Show: -- Donald Trump is still surging in 2024 Republican primary polling, while Ron DeSantis' campaign continues to fail, and Vivek Ramaswamy sees a modest increase to his level of support -- 66-year-old southern California store owner Laura Ann Carleton was shot and killed by a man who objected to an LGBT pride flag that she displayed at her clothing store -- A terrified Donald Trump backs out of all debates and cancels his own supposedly "blockbuster" press conference -- When Donald Trump is arrested and booked in Georgia later this week, we will finally learn his real height and weight -- 2024 Republican presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy says that he would give Russian President Vladimir Putin parts of Ukraine, and then would visit him -- A panicked. hunched-over Donald Trump gives a disgusting interview to Fox News' Larry Kudlow, who happens to be a former advisor to Trump -- Donald Trump completely melts down on Truth Social days before his fourth arrest -- 2024 presidential contender Cornel West owes more than $500,000 in taxes and child support -- Voicemail caller attacks David for letting his "boyfriend" fill in for him during his recent vacation -- On the Bonus Show: David's vacation, his trip to Spain, observations about Spanish culture, run-ins with very sick people, getting recognized by fans in Europe, and more 🌎 Babbel: Get 55% off your subscription (rules & restrictions may apply): https://babbel.com/pakman 🌱 Ounce of Hope: Get 25% OFF with code PAKMAN at https://www.ounceofhope.com/ 🛌 Go to https://helixsleep.com/pakman & use code HELIXPARTNER20 for 20% OFF + 2 free pillows 🍜 Use code PAKMAN for $5 off immi ramen noodles at https://immieats.com/pakman 🩺 Download the My Travel Health app for iPhone at https://davidpakman.com/travel -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

. Well it's great to be back everybody. In the time I was gone so much has changed but also so much has stayed the same. We're going to talk about it. The bonus show today will be explosively packed with stories from my vacation and my trip. And I know many of you followed what I was up to on social media, but I have a number of different observations. Met some great David Pakman show viewers while I was in Europe just by chance and a lot to talk about as far as my trip goes. We'll do that on the bonus show. Let's get right into I mean, listen,

when I was gone, Donald Trump indicted a fourth time will be turning himself in. Reportedly will be mug shotted, weighed and will have his height taken. Heif, some would say. We'll talk about that later as well. We are now just two days away from the first Republican presidential primary debate. We have outrageous weather events that seem to be breaking the brains of many of the MAGA types. I mean, there's just so much to discuss. But one of the things that has not changed in the time I was gone and since we

last spoke is that the Republican primary is still overwhelmingly dominated by the quad indicted failed former president, Donald J. Trump. And there is one campaign that of the Florida governor, Ron DeSantis, that is truly on life support. So I want to start there just to contextualize what is going on. President Joe Biden, to the extent that he is able, is trying to get things done. Do we love every single thing that Biden does? No, I don't know that we do with any president. But is he governing? Absolutely. And in the meantime, the Republican Party is in a situation where they seem inevitably poised to select once again as their presidential candidate. Donald Trump, an individual who can he win a general election?

It's not clear. We're going to talk about that. Where does the polling stand today? As you see here up on the screen, the purple line at the top of the chart is Donald Trump. And indeed, in the last month, Trump continuing to grow his support from about 51 percent of the Republican electorate. Now all the way up to nearly 56 percent of the Republican electorate in the last month. Trump has gained about 10 percent support. Meanwhile, the Ron DeSantis campaign has lost more than half of its support. Donors are heading for the exits.

Some are even casually shifting from DeSantis to Rama Swamy, in some cases Pence, some of them to Chris Christie, who has now reached the high point of his 2024 run three. Yes, Christie is at three, which is the highest he has ever been. But as you can see here, the green line down the middle of the graph, DeSantis at one point reaching more than 31 percent support among Republican voters. Now, all the way down to below 15 percent. If you have lost half of your support, does it suggest you're on a winning trajectory? I believe the answer is clearly no. And then let's address the Vivek Ramaswamy surge. Yes, Vivek Ramaswamy starting at one percent when he entered the race. He is now at seven. Without a doubt, Ramaswamy has seen the largest surge of any candidate going from one to seven

percent. That is a 600 percent gain. His argument. This is not my argument. Vivek's argument is that he is the one who has gained the most support. That part is true and that he is on the same trajectory as Trump was in August of 2015. I believe that that may be a bit of an overstatement in the sense that. Trump in 2015 was not a former president of the United States. And so while you can make the case that mathematically Ramaswamy today and Trump in August of 2015 were in similar mathematical positions, Ramaswamy does not have the benefit of what we might call former incumbency, the bully pulpit, call it what you will, uh, that Trump does today. And thus it is not obvious to me that Vivek Ramaswamy is poised

to take over this lead. A couple of other important things to mention, Chris Christie in New Hampshire in some polling has now gone into second place. The argument all along for Christie was if he can get some early strong showing some delegates or maybe even winning an early state, it would then be a signal to the Republican voter that Christie is viable. You can abandon Trump. You can go with the one guy who is telling some approximation of the truth. And indeed, DeSantis in some polls has dropped to third place in New Hampshire, Christie in second, Trump still in first. Is that going to

be enough to get Christie from where he is now? Three point one to wherever. Hard to say. I mean, listen, Nikki Haley's campaign has been dead from the beginning and she's still ahead of Chris Christie. So I think we have to take a sort of wait and see attitude when it comes to Christie. I also am open to the idea that Wednesday's debate, which, by the way, at minimum, I will be live streaming a pre debate show depending on how litigious Fox News plans to be. We're waiting for advice from our YouTube rep.

I will try to stream the entire debate on YouTube if I'm not streaming. It's because we're not allowed. We'll just get shut down. But at minimum, I hope you'll join me at 8 p.m. Eastern Time Wednesday for a pre debate show and then maybe we'll stream the debate. Maybe we won't. I'm open to the idea that in Trump's absence on Wednesday and yes, Donald Trump has now said he will not be at Wednesday's debate.

I'm open to the idea that without Trump there, someone could really impress the Republican electorate. Could it be Chris Christie? Maybe. Could it be Mike Pence? Probably not. There's nothing impressive about Mike Pence. Could it be Vivek Ramaswamy?

Maybe I think he is poised for a very strong performance on Wednesday. The question is, if Trump doesn't participate, will the very people that these other candidates need to convince, namely Trump supporters, even be watching? Because the plan is that Donald Trump will actually be participating in a competing interview, I believe it is on Wednesday. So I just don't know that without Trump will actually be participating in a competing interview. I believe it is on Wednesday. So I just don't know that without Trump there, there's really the opportunity for a candidate to take any support from Trump. I mean, listen, maybe Vivek can take some support from Pence if he does really well on Wednesday, but will either have the opportunity to take support

from Trump. I just don't see it. So I still believe Trump has a relatively unobstructed path to this nomination. That's where I was two weeks ago when we last spoke. And it's where I am today. And we will follow all of it. So so much has changed, but so much has stayed the same. Trump still in a commanding lead in the Republican primary. Let's talk about a couple of the things. Then we will get back to some of the campaign related events of the weekend. I have for you today one of the sickest stories in American politics in months. A store owner was shot and killed, shot and killed with a gun because she displayed a pride flag, an LGBT pride flag that someone did not like. We are talking about tragic and senseless is an understatement. We're talking about the tragic

and senseless death of 66 year old Laura Ann Carlton. Here is an NPR report. California store owner shot and killed over a pride flag displayed at her shop, killed Friday by a man who objected to an LGBTQ plus pride flag displayed at her clothing store. according to officials. San Bernardino County sheriff's deputies responded to the magpie clothing store in Cedar Glen, California, around five on Friday. There was a report of a shooting. And when police arrived, they discovered the victim, 66 year old Laura Ann Carlton, suffering from a gunshot wound. She was pronounced dead at the scene. The suspect who was not identified fled on foot. The man made, quote, several disparaging remarks about a rainbow flag before ultimately shooting her. Deputies later located the armed suspect who was confronted by deputies and was

himself killed in a, quote, lethal force encounter. No deputies were injured. And of course, now we have all of the backstory of Laura Ann Carlton, known as Lori, who was killed. This is where we are in the United States of America right now. And as I mentioned, you know, on the bonus show today, I'm going to talk about a lot of the things I observed during my trip to Spain over the last couple of weeks. And this story, this particular story of someone bringing a gun to shoot a woman because he doesn't like her pride flag and the message of inclusivity that it refers to. This is one of the big areas where when you leave the U.S., you realize so much of our culture is broken. Yes, there's so many other things, small things, medium thing. But this is one of the major things. Our culture is broken. We are talking about shining a spotlight

on hate and intolerance and violence and yes, gun safety as well. This is about all of those things. And on the one hand, it's OK to acknowledge we should acknowledge, quite frankly, that if you look at the last 30 years, there has been significant progress both legally and culturally when it comes to something like LGBT equality. It's crazy. We still even have to talk about it. And what I mean by that is I would love it if we didn't even talk about LGBT equality and equal treatment.

It would be great if it just wasn't an issue. It is. But we've still made significant progress. And then you see the mere completely benign display of a pride flag outside of a store leading to a fatal shooting. And it starkly illustrates that this battle is far from over. I wish we didn't have to talk about it anymore when we're dealing with climate and economic injustice and inequality and all of these different things. It would be great never to have to utter another word about how this battle has not yet been won when it comes to LGBT equality and and just respect. But we simply aren't there yet. And this is yet another one of these

stories that illustrates that. And it is crucial, obviously, that we condemn the act of violence that came from intolerance, intolerance and prejudice. These are hate crimes in the sense that there was one person shot. Laurie Carlton was the one person shot. But when you see this, it rightly sends like a shockwave of fear and anxiety through the entire community, the LGBT community, because you have a pride flag, which is let's be honest, you might not like it, but it's about acceptance and unity. That's what the pride flag is about. It's not a provocation to violence. And yet someone was so triggered by it. Big, burly man, right. Triggered by a flag that he goes out and he shoots someone. And so when we have incidents like this, we have to understand that, you know, I I've said this before and I don't even love to talk about

this, but I have many liberal gun owning friends. And I've said before, I just don't talk about my relationship to guns personally. I talk about what I think gun safety regulations should be. But let's make it about friends of mine. I have many liberal gun owning friends who say. I want this for self-defense because I don't want the right wing nuts who will do violence because Trump lost, who will do violence because they see a pride flag, not people in control of their emotions. These are not rational people.

I don't want them to be the only ones with the firearms. And so you have a left wing that, yes, we champion gun safety regulations. We must have them. We fight for them. And also there are growing voices within the left wing that say, hey, we don't want these right wing nuts being the only ones with the guns. And it is sadly a race to the bottom. I acknowledge that. And I think my gun owning liberal friends acknowledge that as well. So on the one hand, we advocate for the gun safety regulations. On the other hand, there is a growing movement that says if they're the only ones with the guns, that's a very scary situation. So this story reminds us both of the circumstances that are pushing more and more people on the left to get firearms themselves,

which, by the way, you might buy it for self-defense. It could end up being used against you. That's a classic story. There could be an accident with the firearm that you bought for self-defense. You were a loved one ends up injured. This is not a solution. OK, it seems to be a stop gap that many on the left are looking at. But also this story is about gun safety. Now, we don't yet know, or at least I haven't seen the particulars of this individual, the perpetrators, gun ownership, legal or illegal, and things in his past which may or should have precluded him from having firearms. I just that's not what's not about the specifics. But obviously, all of these stories are about gun safety regulations as well. A disgusting and depressing vignette of the cultural problem we have in this country where

people see firearms as a way to solve interpersonal problems of the triggeredly nature of a lot of these right wingers who they see a pride flag and it's so upsetting they go and shoot someone. It's a it's a reminder of much of what is wrong in this country. Let me know what you think about this. You can find me on threads. Leave a comment. Honestly, guys, I don't know that I'm ever going to mention Twitter again and say follow me on Twitter, which is now X. The platform's been ruined. I read that during my vacation, Elon Musk said he's going to take away the ability to block people. It's 95 percent unusable for me at this point. If I can't block people, I have thousands of people blocked who just want to harass me.

It will become 100 percent unusable and then that'll be bye bye. But more on Twitter or X at some other point. We'll take a quick break. It's so good to be back. So much to talk about today. Everybody loves a good bowl of instant ramen every once in a while. Hard to beat the convenience, usually not the healthiest option. The taste is often very so-so.

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hospital. But you do have to be prepared. The doctors at Mayo Clinic have developed an iPhone app that helps users safeguard their health during travel. It's called My Travel Health, one of our sponsors today. My Travel Health provides tips for preventing and handling illness while you travel. It also lets users receive security alerts from the U.S. State Department about the specific country that you're in. It provides country specific vaccine recommendations from the CDC. It locally stores critical information like passports and visa records, immunization records, allergy alerts. I've used the app. It's awesome. Hugely helpful when I'm either on vacation or traveling for work. You just have to plan for the worst, whether it's a respiratory infection or a blood clot or heat exhaustion. My travel health will just walk you through how to address it while traveling. Download the app

for iPhone at David Pakman dot com slash travel. The link is in the podcast notes. The David Pakman show continues to depend on your support. We are not like so many right wing media outlets funded by large individual donors who throw millions at him and say, do whatever the hell you want. No, we actually have to build support one brick at a time, one membership at a time. And I would love for you to sign up at join Pacman dot com. You can use the coupon code indicted again. We actually need a coupon code referring to four indictments. I don't know, quad indicted or something like that. Let me know what you think it would it should be. And we'll get that set up. You can also support us and support

critical thinking in your community by getting my children's book on critical thinking. You can find it at David Pakman dot com slash book nearly. Actually, where are we on copies sold? Let me see here. We were looking at we were hoping for ten thousand copies sold. And then I went on vacation. I don't know where we are. Let's see where we are on total and lifetime. Ten thousand seven hundred eighty nine copies. Unbelievable. We did it. We saw. OK, so I don't know. Let's go for twenty five thousand or something like that. David Pakman dot com slash book. Many ways to support the work that we do. All right. We have already unprecedented circumstances in this year's presidential

election. If you zoom out and forget about the minutia, we have never had in this country before a situation in which a former president who lost reelection is running again to try to win his party's primary to then rematch the president who he lost to in the previous election. And that is exactly what Donald Trump is trying to do. We are adding to the unprecedented nature of to the already unprecedented nature of this election cycle with the news that Donald Trump is backing out seemingly of all debates. Trump is terrified and Trump has made the calculation. And when Trump makes a calculation, you know, I don't know that it's he sits down and really charts out the pros and cons, but he is maybe intuitively or reflexively or in a panicked state making the calculus that participating in the debates is potentially worse for him than

simply not participating. So there's a bunch of different things going on. It was reported a couple of days ago by U.S. News. Trump backs out of debate and his blockbuster press conference. Now, let's go through these one by one. The the debate which Trump appeared to be backing out of originally was just this week's debate on Fox News. It still seemed as though he planned to participate in future Republican primary debates. It now appears that he does not. As Donald Trump published yesterday to his platform, Truth Social Central Quote, New CBS poll just out has me leading the field by legendary numbers. Trump, 62, 46 points above the sanctimonious who is crashing like an ailing bird.

Rama Swami, seven pence, five Scott, three Haley, two sloppy Chris Christie, two Ada Hutchinson. One, the public knows who I am and what a successful presidency I had with energy independence, strong borders and military biggest ever tax and regulation cuts, no inflation, strongest economy in history and much more. I will therefore not be doing the debates. Plural. This is a signal that Donald Trump will not be participating in any of the Republican presidential primary debates. Now, let's discuss. Is this actually the right move for Trump? I, at this point, believe that although bailing on all of the debates is a risk for Trump, it is the most likely correct outcome or decision by Trump for the best outcome. What do I mean by that? Well, you have a lot of discussions about if Trump's not

there, it's going to give the opportunity for some other Republican to shine and to really impress the Republican electorate. That's true. That absolutely could happen. Or by not being there, Donald Trump is going to allow a full slate of Republican candidates to attack Trump, maybe very aggressively, maybe very strongly. And Trump won't be there to defend himself. And so Republican voters will only get one side of the story and Trump won't be there

to say, hey, this isn't true for that reason or this isn't true for that reason. Or here's my record on this, that or the other thing that is all potentially true. But what those analyses miss is that Trump cultists, I don't believe, are going to be watching these debates in great numbers if Trump doesn't participate. And so in order to convince Trump cultists, hey, maybe I'll vote for Ramaswamy or Pence or Christie or whoever instead of Trump, they have to watch the damn debates. And particularly with Trump's plans to counter program the debates by doing interviews at the exact same time. It is not obvious to me

that Trump's followers are even going to be watching these debates in great numbers. Some will, of course, there are soft Trump supporters who say, well, I kind of think I'm going Trump, but I'm not really sure. Yeah, some of them will watch these debates, but many will not if Trump is not there. And so while all of these hypothetical risks are certainly real to Trump, if he's not there, I don't believe that the audience of people that are going to potentially move the needle from Trump to some other candidate are going to be watching these debates in great numbers if their great exalted orange leader is not participating. Now imagine tying your whole identity to this guy who can't even show up and just debate and whatever risks are there.

Say I'm going to face it and I'm going to do well and I'm going to show you how good I am at this. You know, it's not exactly alpha alpha male behavior by their own standards. So that's number one. Secondly, there's the press conference. We my plan was to cover live this morning Donald Trump's blockbuster press conference at which he was going to expose and confirm and prove the voter fraud that supposedly happened.

And this was going to be a counterpoint to all of the criminal charges related to Trump's attempt to steal the election. The idea that Trump had being if I can prove it really was stolen, it makes everything I did legal to try to get it back. Apparently taking direction from his lawyers, Trump decided to cancel that press conference, saying that the right venue for proving that the election was stolen from him is actually going to be in legal filing. So Trump essentially saying rather than lying in a press conference about the election, we are going to attempt to lie in legal filings about the election and whether

that works for Trump is an open question. I believe that it is not going to work. So what was a very boisterous Trump saying, I'm going to show everybody up at the debates and I'm going to do a press conference and show you how everything is true and real and all this different stuff. Not debating, not doing the press conference. I want to mention one other thing related to this. There is a growing story among some on the right. That everything that is being done to Trump is being done to Trump because it's obvious there is no enthusiasm behind Joe Biden. And as proof of this, they will often cite, you don't see people with Biden flags. You don't see people with Biden tattoos. You don't see people pledging and swearing oaths to Biden or whatever the case may be. It's really important to understand that all that proves is that Trump supporters

are cultists. It is true. I mean, listen, I voted for Biden and I think he's done some good things. Would I ever even consider getting a Biden bumper sticker for my car? No, I hate bumper stickers. I don't put bumper stickers on my car. I want it clean. I tell the dealer, keep that license plate frame off of my car. I don't I'm not advertising for anything on my car. I want it clean. I tell the dealer, keep that license plate frame off of my car.

I don't I'm not advertising for anything on my car. Have I ever considered getting Biden clothing? Have I ever considered going to see Biden speak in person? No, I don't care. I only have an interest in this entire endeavor insofar as voting for the person that I think will do the most good or the least harm. And beyond that, I'm not interested in these individuals as people. I don't care about Bernie as an individual and his personality quirks and other. Who's the best person that's going to move the ball forward? There is not a cult around Biden in the way that there is a cult around Trump. That's why what they see as enthusiasm is just, hey, we're living our lives. We're not tying our identity to these people. By the way,

I was driving on the highway yesterday, saw a guy with a big, big truck, right? Big alpha male truck with a bumper sticker that said F the whole F word was spelled out, but we can't say it on radio. So F Joe and the hoe, the hoe, I assume refers to Kamala Harris. By the way, hoe was misspelled. They misspelled it H O E, which is, of course, the gardening implement rather than H O, which is a pejorative term about a woman. I'm sure that that bumper sticker was just a reflection of economic anxiety. Am I right? All right. So listen, we'll be covering the debate at minimum. I'll be doing a pre show if we're allowed to stream the entire debate Wednesday. I will stream the entire debate on YouTube. Hope that you will join me. All right. I'm not going to spend a ton of time on this next story, but I did want to

mention it because it does relate to another one of these lies that's been told when Donald Trump finally turns himself in in Georgia. It's expected to happen Thursday or Friday of this week. He is going to be booked and we may indeed find out Trump's actual height and weight. And in fact, there are odds makers that are now taking bets on what is Donald Trump's real height and weight going to be. The reason it is a tabloid ask story and many tabloids like the Daily Mail have been covering it. What is my interest in this? They lie about absolutely everything. And there have been lies told about Trump's height, weight and health for years and years and years.

And I admit, OK, this is not economic policy. This is not let's save the climate. This simply is what it is. OK, it will give me a bit of personal pleasure to find out Trump's real height and weight, because when he and his doctor told us that he's six, three and weighs only two thirty nine, we all know it's a lie. And this, of course, relates to the more important issue of presidential health. And while they love to talk about how Joe Biden is on the verge of death and so unhealthy and we actually know from actuarial data that Joe Biden is expected to outlive Donald Trump, despite even being a couple

of years older than him. And when we look at Trump and they tell us this is the healthiest guy who's ever been president, we know that that's not the case. We know Trump's not six three, because when he stood next to people whose heights we know, Tom Brady, Barack Obama, it simply doesn't add up that he's six three. It also doesn't add up that he weighs two hundred and thirty nine pounds. This is not about fat shaming. This is about every aspect of Trump is a lie. Trump, the great businessman. That's a lie. Trump, the alpha male

who would run into a building where there's a shooting going on. That's a lie. These are all lies. And it will give me a little bit of enjoyment. Doesn't fix climate, doesn't fix economic inequality, doesn't fix so many of the problems we have. But if and when we find out Trump's real height and weight, I will be absolutely fascinated. Do I think Trump weighs over 265? I think he probably does. I think he probably does. And OK, we'll keep an eye on it. Not the

biggest story, but I know many of you share the curiosity. Make sure you're following me on Instagram. Find out what I was up to the last couple of weeks. David Pakman on that platform. We're going to take a quick break. We're going to look at some fascinating video, including Vivek Ramaswamy with his plan for Ukraine and Russia. It's scary stuff. OK, stay with us. That'll be next. I want to tell you about a company called Ounce of Hope. They've been sponsoring the show for a while. They really support us. And it would be great if you support them. And what they do is amazing for their community. Ounce of Hope is an aquaponics cannabis farm. Aquaponics means that at their farm in Memphis, Ounce of Hope sustainably raises fish and

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The info is in the podcast notes. I'm going to tell the story on the bonus show today of one of the people that came up to me, no tears in his eyes, but he did come up to me during my recent trip to Spain and actually talked to me about Vivek Ramaswamy. And one of the things that this guy said to me was, you know, he sounds like he's making so much sense. And then you kind of like put down on paper and read back some of the things that he says. And you realize this is some

pretty whacked out stuff. And I'm going to play an example of that for you. This clip going very, very viral over the weekend. Vivek Ramaswamy, who, of course, is running to be the 2024 Republican presidential nominee, was interviewed on CNN by Jim Acosta. And the topic of Ukraine and Russia came up. And in this segment, Vivek says to Jim Acosta, he would let Putin keep parts of Ukraine and Russia came up. And in this segment, Vivek says to Jim Acosta, he would let Putin keep parts of Ukraine and he would block Ukraine from ever joining NATO. And he would then go and visit Vladimir Putin on top of it. The cherry on top. This is some pretty wild stuff. And not only is it very concerning foreign policy, it also is very counter to what Republicans want us to believe they are about ideologically. So let's listen to what the

Vakes said and then we will discuss. Speaker 1 and you've also suggested that Vladimir Putin be allowed to keep parts of Ukraine as part of a as far as part of a way to solve that conflict. What if he wants parts of Poland? You leave out the most important part of that deal. More of Ukraine next. Aren't you letting some of these authoritarian leaders off the hook? What actually advances far from it. I think that the Biden administration is so stubbornly attached to the idea of getting Xi Jinping to drop Vladimir Putin, what I think we need to be doing is get Vladimir Putin to drop Xi Jinping.

Just like Nixon went to China in 1972, I think Putin is like the new Mao. I will visit Moscow and I will pull Russia out of its military alliance with China. The Russia-China military alliance is the single greatest military threat that we face today. Hypersonic missile capabilities, nuclear capabilities in Russia, far ahead of us or China. A naval capacity in China ahead of ours, combined with an economy that we depend on for our modern way of life. Those two nations are in a military alliance with one another, and nobody in either political party is talking about it. Worst of all, our engagement in Ukraine is further driving Russia into China's arms. So my foreign policy centers on weakening that alliance. That advances American interests.

But you would let Putin have parts of Ukraine. That is how we actually secure peace. But you would let Putin have parts of Ukraine. I would freeze the current lines. I would freeze the current lines of control and that would leave parts of the Donbass region with Russia. I would also further make a commitment that NATO will not admit Ukraine to NATO. But there are even greater wins that I will get from the United States in return. That sounds like a win for Putin.

The top of the list. Our goal should not be for Putin to lose. Our goal should be for America to win. That's what we have forgotten in this country, is that driving Russia into the ground is not a U.S. strategic goal. So there is so much wrong with this perspective that it's actually hard to really go through the pieces of it. There are certain catchphrases that have caught on among the right. And maybe some people use them in good faith, but they are the catchphrases that are completely breaking the brains of right wingers. And our goal should not be for Russia to lose, but for the U.S. to win is one of those phrases. Should we have the

unique random just pick it out of a hat goal of Russia losing? No, I agree with that. The problem is that it is a vague talking point wrapped up with impossible promises that gets us trash as far as foreign policy is concerned. First and foremost, it's nonsense to think that President Vivek Ramaswamy is going to go and meet with Putin in Russia and then sever the growing alliance of Russia and China. Would it be in American interests to put to pump the brakes on Russia and China increasingly aligning? Sure. From an American centrist perspective, economic nationalism and all of those perspectives, is the U.S.

in terms of our individual goals better off aside from whether this is you could say, well, David, we should be thinking globally rather than nationalistically. Fine. I'm just saying, is it true that in the way that people like Vivek Ramaswamy think about geopolitics, is it true that interrupting Russia China alliance would be, quote, better for the United States? Yeah, probably. But it's ridiculous to think that Vivek is going to go over there and achieve that. That's number one. Number two, it's not just a question of, well, our goal shouldn't be for Russia to lose, but for us to win. There is an objective aggressor, a an arguably war criminal aggressor here in what is taking place in Ukraine. And that is Putin and

Putin's decision to go in. And so when you say, well, yeah, you took this land illegally, but we'll let you keep some of this. And also we'll do your bidding by jumping on and saying NATO must say Ukraine will never be a member, which happens to be exactly what Putin wants. Just sort of like cool off the relationship with China. This is not about just in the abstract Russia winning or losing or the U.S. winning. You are sending the message much like what we worry about in terms of the messages that are sent to North Korea when Kim Jong Un or others in the Kim family previously take these belligerent actions of saying, hey, if you act crazy, we will ultimately just work to appease you. And acting crazy will get you goodies. And it used to be

that that wasn't OK. And of course, this runs completely counter to the narrative that these right wingers want us to believe they subscribe to when it comes to foreign policy of big, strong men and alpha and we're strong and nobody's going to bully us or whatever the case may be. This is really weak stuff. But also importantly, it's completely imaginary that any of this would even work. So some people wrote to me and said that is Vivek kind of like the Andrew Yang of this election cycle, that he's getting media attention disproportionate to his actual support. I don't think so, because Vivek Ramaswamy actually has quite a bit of support relative to what Andrew Yang had,

if I recall correctly. So I do think it's a different situation. But it is really strange that obviously bad ideas are being have gained cheerleaders in the way that they have. We'll talk about it more. Speaking of bad ideas that are getting attention, the failed four times indicted former President Donald Trump has given a bonkers cuckoo for cocoa puffs, panicked and hunched over interview on Fox News ahead of his fourth arrest expected Thursday or Friday of this week. Donald Trump was recently interviewed by his own former economic adviser, Larry Kudlow. And listen to some of the things that were discussed. Donald Trump still obsessed with water pressure. He just can't stop talking about it. You know what you do? You wash hands four times longer. You take a shower like your beautiful

hair, like this beautiful. And Larry, I want to get out of there. I want to take a shower and wash my hair. And you have these things that where the water just drips out, it could hardly come out. It's brutal. It's a brutal problem that we're facing, by the way, a problem that has nothing to do with Joe Biden, even to the extent that it is real. It has nothing to do with Joe Biden. Trump obsessed with water pressure and flushing toilets. And it's just wild. And Larry Kudlow is just feeding

into all of it. Here is Larry Kudlow praising Trump, basically just sucking up to Trump the entire interview. I think thoughts. Yeah, I say we're going to make America greater. The growth is part of it. But there are other things that you've discussed. And can I just add one thing, sir? I don't think people know this. Your campaign, you and your advisors in the campaign, you're putting out all these great videos. You're putting out white papers on issues left and right. And millions of people are reading this stuff. I mean, you're running an issues oriented. Do you know anyone who's read a so-called Trump white paper? Does anybody know a single person?

Campaign. That's one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you about this stuff today. So we can pull up from this decline. Yeah, we can. In fact, the nice part is we're dealing in person. Normally, I just put it up on a screen and I put it out. But we're doing it in person, which is even nicer and better because you're asking great questions. We can make America great. We have some problems. I think you're going to have 15 million people in our country

that you didn't have a couple of years ago, not 4 million or 5 million. I think it's a much bigger number. Many of these people are from prisons and they're from mental institutions and they're terrorists. And we have to get them out. We have to get them out. We can't live with them. And so that is something that is a big job. That's a big job.

That's a very important job. But this is what you call a brown nosing sycophant interview. Larry Kudlow trying to suggest it just set Trump up to tell the same lies over and over again. Look at this one. Kudlow was an economic advisor to Trump, and he allows Trump to lie about unemployment and jobs numbers. Of course he does. I want to play a sound. Here's Biden attacking you. When I took office, the pandemic was raging and our economy was reeling. Are you taking blame for inflation no

why not because it was already there when i got here man remember what the economy was like when i got here jobs were hemorrhaging inflation was rising we weren't manufacturing a damn thing here what do you make of that untruths i mean i could call it another word, but after all, it's a disgrace. We had the greatest economy in history. We then got hit by the pandemic and then all the jobs are coming back. And we had them back. All of those jobs that we created at a level that nobody's ever seen before, they were all coming back. They were pouring back. Yeah. Now, unfortunately, that runs counter to some of the facts. One of those facts is that the unemployment rate was over six percent when Trump left office and it has been under four percent for a long time now.

In fact, the unemployment rate has been under four percent longer right now than at any point in American history since unemployment was measured. Job creation stronger under Biden than under Trump. Now, if you want to be honest about the numbers, but say it's not a really clear picture because my last couple of years were clouded by the pandemic or my last year plus was clouded by the pandemic. You can make that case. But Trump doesn't do that. He just straight up lies about the numbers, then telling those same lies, although sometimes it's it's more of a confusion than it is a lie about Ukraine and Russia.

And Kudlow just accepts all of it. We're going to do this. We're not going to do business. We'll go cold turkey if we have to. We're not going to do business. And they always relented. They always really. But again, you you do negotiate from a position of strength, but you are again, it's the art

of the deal. We're not talking taxes and tariffs. Eventually, you don't have that strength because the country becomes so weak that you no longer. We have this country that is just big power, but it's losing everything. We're losing our dignity, but we're losing that big market. It has more power when you have it rolling like we had it rolling. So it loses that power. But the tariffs are great, not only for the dollar and all of those things that we know about that you and I like and understand better than most.

But it's also good for keeping a set of wars. It's good. We can do a lot of power with that. There's a lot of power. You know, Putin would have never gone into Ukraine, but that was just on my relationship with him. My personality over his. And Trump is sort of right in the sense that he's he's correctly pointing out with me as president, Putin would never have had to go into Ukraine. That's the sad reality of that statement. Never got I used to speak to him. It was the apple of his eye. But I said, don't ever do it. And it was, you know, tough stuff there. But he would have never done it. I was the apple of his eye. I don't know if

Trump really knows what that means when he said it. And then here's just another moment. Larry Kudlow just licking Trump's boots, to quote our friend Aaron Ruppar. I just refer to it as the art of the deal. And I remember when you appointed me to the NEC and we talked about all this and you said, well, you said to me, I'm a better negotiator than you are. And you were quite right. Absolutely. Did I say that? I don't think I. Hey, I'm not sure that I said that. You did. And I don't worry. It was an insanely arrogant and pompous thing to say. But it was correct, sir. Thank you so much.

This is what Trump is going to counter program the upcoming debates with. Trump won't be participating in the debates. Wednesday, he'll be doing a counter programing interview, and I believe it will be much like this. Will this be enough to keep him in the lead in the Republican primary? If you give me an even money bet, I believe that it will. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. There are growing reports that Donald Trump's physical health is suffering as a result of the pressure and weight of these four indictments that he is now facing, including the possibility, at least theoretically, of hundreds of years in prison

until we have something more solid on that. I'm going to wait before doing a segment on it. But what we can tell from Donald Trump's public statements on his platform, Truth Social, is that Donald Trump is at least emotionally suffering significantly, going on a completely unhinged meltdown over the last 24 hours as he plans to. He already canceled today's supposedly blockbuster press conference in which he would prove the election was stolen, decides not to participate in this Wednesday's debate or any debates, and will turn himself in to be arrested and booked and potentially mug shot in Georgia on Thursday or Friday, posting the following tirade to Truth Central, quote, Hey, I'm running against the guy. I'm going to indict him three or four times to keep him busy. Does anyone think that Crooked

Joe Biden would have said something like this? Make America great again. Continuing, I easily won the great state of Georgia in 2016, did a fantastic job as president for Georgia and the entire USA, received 10 million more votes than I got nationwide in 2016, got by far the most votes in history for a sitting president, but shockingly, quote, lost Georgia. All this despite winning nearby Alabama and South Carolina in record setting landslides. Why did Georgia officials agree to and sign the one sided consent decree? Does anybody really believe I lost Georgia? I don't. Of course he did. Continuing, why should crooked Joe Biden be able to force me into the time and expense of trials, especially before the election on bogus claims pushed by his chief political supporter,

the Department of Injustice? What a horrible precedent this sets for future presidential campaigns. It is all about election interference and must be stopped. Of course, there continues to be no evidence, not even a shred of an iota of a kernel of a grain of evidence that Joe Biden is involved in any way in the four indictments against Trump. But Trump continuing, quote, Just think of it. They crooked Joe Biden and his thugs indict me. And their whole campaign is that Trump is indicted. I did everything right and they indicted me. Does that sound fair to anyone? Am I allowed to do such a horrible and unconstitutional thing if and when I win the presidency? We are entering really dangerous territory. Trump continues. Crooked Joe Biden's only campaign

strategy is indicting me going on to extend the extended vacations and sleep, sleep, sleep. And then lastly, Trump getting very dark, very conspiratorial, saying, quote, How nice. A really beautiful reunion. Three people that I indisputably got elected to governors and a VP, Brian Kemp of Georgia, Mike Pence of Indiana and Ron DeSanctimonious of Florida just met, most likely to talk about the weather or perhaps to discuss how they can stop the weaponization of Georgia law, working with the DOJ and others against their absolutely all time favorite president. Me, all three have been just wonderful, so loyal and nice. It's great to have friends like this.

The question that many of you asked me while I was gone last week was, do I think Trump genuinely believes this story that Biden is personally involved in getting him indicted? Or is it something that Trump is just saying in order to generate donations and rile up his base? I'm going to be really honest with you. I have no idea. We've got gone back and forth for several years now. Does Trump really think he won 2020 or does he know it's a grift? And whenever we think we land on one side of that question, we get some new piece of evidence that it's the other side. I think right now I know that Trump knows he lost that. I'm sort of confident in that. But again, then we learn something new and it's not clear. So now the

question is, does Trump really think Joe Biden is directing these indictments against him? I genuinely do not know what is clear from people around Trump and from Trump's publicly available statements on truth social is that he is not stable and he hasn't been stable for a while. But there is a newly erratic nature to what is going on. Is this part of Trump's, according to some, bad decision? But maybe it's a good decision to skip all of the debates. We don't know. Is this related to Trump's plan to do a press conference today to prove election fraud, which he then canceled erratic again? I don't know. We really don't know. But it's clear the guy is not well. You know, I wasn't going to cover this story about Cornel West owing more than

half a million dollars in taxes and child support, mostly because I just don't really care about Cornel West's candidacy for president. But a bunch of people wrote to me about it and everybody had some version of the same question. Is it fair game in evaluating Cornel West as a candidate to consider that he owes half a million dollars in taxes and child support? I think it's a really interesting question. Let me first tell you what is being reported by ABC News. Green Party candidate Cornel West owes more than half a million dollars in taxes and child

support, according to records. Records show that Cornell West owes nearly four hundred and sixty six thousand dollars in federal income taxes from 2013 and 2017. This came after he accrued and later repaid a debt of nearly seven hundred and twenty five thousand dollars from 1998 to 2005 and more than thirty four thousand dollars in 2008. Additionally, West has an outstanding forty nine thousand five hundred dollar child support judgment from 2003 records show the tax debts have not been paid as of 30 days ago. The outstanding child support payment is owned to a tool. Gerdes, his former partner and mother of one of his children.

It's not clear how long West didn't pay child support. New Jersey family lawyer Kathleen Stockton says the amount of money appears substantial. The average child support obligation is about fifty eight hundred per year, making West's fifty thousand dollars more than eight times that. So listen, here's the question. So let me say a few different things. I already did not consider Cornel West to be a serious candidate, and I've explained why. And it has nothing to do with him owing half a million dollars in taxes and child support. Here's the question. Should this matter or is this merely a personal issue for Cornel West? Should we be considering this? Is it fair game

for evaluating his candidacy or not? Let's make both cases. Case number one is is shouldn't matter at all. Cornel West's personal finances are irrelevant to his candidacy. Leaders can excel in public office despite personal flaws, whether it's unpaid taxes or affairs or whatever the case may be. The focus should be policy, not personal issues. Personal attacks, attacks distract from policy debate. And every minute we're talking about Cornel West owing child support, we're not talking about his policy on climate change or whatever the case may be. And also that individuals might have personal issues that are generated by broader systemic problems. And if Cornel West has systemic solutions, it might prevent the sort of personal problems that he has. And anyway,

if he did something wrong, everybody deserves a chance at redeeming themselves. Okay. That's one argument. That's one argument. This stuff shouldn't matter at all. Fine. Second argument is no, no, no, no, no. Divorce shouldn't matter, but something like not paying taxes, which taxes are related to what presidents do and not paying child support, which relates to relates to women's rights. It relates to children. It should matter. It should matter because leadership and character and integrity are important. And if you evade taxes, you're contradicting a stance on economic justice that everyone must pay their fair share. And these are the taxes he was supposed to pay and he didn't pay them.

And when you don't pay child support, you're signaling a lack of concern over gender equity and leaders must be responsible and you must be personally trustworthy to be publicly trustworthy. That's pretty convincing when it comes to these particular issues. So here is my view at the end of the day on this. You know, the child support, I do think you can argue if he doesn't keep his basic responsibility to children with ex partners, do we really want him making policy that impacts women and children? Maybe, maybe they're separate things, but there does seem to be some overlap in terms of back taxes. Tax policy is a huge issue when it comes to presidential responsibilities. If you just don't pay your taxes and then you show

up and you say, I want to make tax policy. I don't know about that. Now, you might hear me saying this and you say, David, if his tax policy is good, who cares if he doesn't pay, then they should go after him like they did with Hunter Biden, which, by the way, are they going after Cornel West like they did to Hunter Biden? But that's a different story. My instinct on this is it's not black or white. It's not either personal issues matter or they don't matter. If the personal issues are related to the office you are seeking, then I believe it does matter. And to me, not paying taxes and not paying child support are issues of economic justice, gender equality, responsibility. So it does matter. However,

his candidacy was already a nonstarter for me for all of the reasons I've already outlined, both about Cornel West and the Green Party. Let me know what you think. We have a voicemail number. If you want to call in, if you have something you want to say to me, I welcome it. Here is a voicemail caller who was glad to see my boyfriend fill in for me during my vacation. What the hell is this guy talking about? Hey, Dave, I was just calling you, man. I think it's cool that you're letting your boyfriend take over, you know, for you for a couple of days on the show. Oh, yeah. I heard the rumors that your grandma told you you were getting too much screen time

and she cut you off on the Internet. Yeah. Well, both my grandmothers are dead. She said no more Wi-Fi for you. Anyway, David, I hope you get sweet dreams tonight and I hope there's no Trump nightmares. OK, have a good one, David. Yeah. Listen, as far as the fill ins, obviously I exclusively date women because as far as

my experience, I was born only being attracted to women. So I don't know about boyfriend, but we had producer Pat and Luke Beasley and Jesse Dollimore and Farron Cousins fill in for me during my vacation. I think they all did a great job. The feedback was overwhelmingly positive on average. Yes, some people wrote in and said, I like this one, didn't like this one so much. But overall, I believe this was the best fill in series that we did. Just about everyone that wrote in liked at least one of the guest hosts, which if you've been following the guest host fiasco for a while, you'd know is not always the case.

So thanks to all the fill in hosts. I'm back and it's a great thing on the bonus show. So much to discuss from my trip. Sign up at join Pacman dot com. I will tell you about the five times I was recognized during the trip. I'm going to tell you about cost of living in Spain, cultural differences, people coughing and smoking all over me and much, much more. Join Pacman dot com. Sign up. I will see you on the bonus show.