The David Pakman Show - 8/22/24: Tim Walz nominated as RFK dropping out, Trump unable to speak

Episode Date: August 22, 2024

-- On the Show: -- Marc Elias, voting rights attorney and founder of Democracy Docket, joins David to discuss the plan that MAGA and Republicans are putting together to try to steal the 2024 presidential election -- Bill Clinton, Pete Buttigieg, Dana Nessel, Wes Moore, Oprah Winfrey, and many others, speak at the Democratic National Convention and send Donald Trump into a tailspin -- Tim Walz accepts the Democratic nomination to be Vice President, and delivers a speech to the convention -- Robert F. Kennedy Jr will be dropping out of the presidential race, and is expected to endorse Donald Trump -- Mike Lindell, CEO and founder of MyPillow, is at the DNC wearing a very low energy disguise, and is getting into arguments with children -- A disoriented Donald Trump delivers a speech from a glass box in Asheboro, North Carolina -- The morning after Tim Walz's DNC speech, Donald Trump calls into Fox and Friends, sounding depressed and confused -- Voicemail caller is confused that Kamala Harris is accused by some of being a centrist and by others of being a far left extremist -- On the Bonus Show: Beyonce threatens legal action over Trump's "Freedom" video, Harley-Davidson dropping diversity initiatives after right-wing anti-DEI campaign, police raid Andrew Tate's home over new allegations involving minors, much more... ⚠️ Try Ground News and get 40% OFF the Vantage plan at https://ground.news/pakman 😁 Zippix Toothpicks: Code PAKMAN10 saves you 10% at https://zippixtoothpicks.com 👍 Mindgrasp: Try it for FREE today at https://davidpakman.com/ai ✉️ StartMail: Get 50% OFF a year subscription at https://startmail.com/pakman 💪 Athletic Greens is offering FREE year-supply of Vitamin D at https://athleticgreens.com/pakman -- Become a Member: https://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Become a Patron: https://www.patreon.com/davidpakmanshow -- TDPS Subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow -- Pakman Discord: https://www.davidpakman.com/discord -- David on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave a Voicemail: (219)-2DAVIDP

. Welcome everybody. Last night's third of four nights at the Democratic National Convention saw some good speeches. It saw more of a tailspin from Donald Trump and J.D. Vance as they realize we don't have the momentum. We don't have the favorability. We don't have the personalities. We don't have the favorability. We don't have the personalities. We don't have the policies. We don't really have anything other than the fact that our followers are

in a cult. And on the other hand, a positive vision for the country, not apocalyptic, not dystopian, not about everything is, has been and will be terrible sort of stuff. Just here's what's at stake. Here's what we're going to do. And one of the most interesting speeches last night was from Republican former Georgia Lieutenant Governor Jeff Duncan. Yes, a Republican who said, you know what? You don't have to agree with everything Kamala Harris believes in to realize it's time to dump Trump really powerful seeing this Republican look, you don't have to agree with every policy position of Kamala Harris. I don't.

But you do have to recognize her prosecutor mindset that understands right from wrong, good from evil. She's a steady hand and will bring leadership to the White House that Donald Trump could never do. This is a Republican folks. Let me be clear to my Republican friends at home watching. If you vote for Kamala Harris, Kamala Harris in 2024, you're not a Democrat.. Very, very powerful stuff.

As I've said, there are folks who need a sort of license of sorts to say, I'm not going to vote Trump. I'm just going to vote for what I kind of know is right deep down. And that's why when Anna Navarro, former Republican, a Latino woman, said they abandoned us. This isn't right. Kamala is not a communist. We've got to do the right thing. Right wing Latino voters hopefully hear that and go, she's doing it and I can do it, too. I suspect that it was the right thing to do.

And now she's telling me it is. And similarly, when Jeff Duncan says the same thing, it doesn't make you a Democrat to choose Kamala Harris over Donald Trump. It just makes you a patriot because it's what's good for the country rather than what's good for your party. Cory Booker spoke about Project 2025 and he had some good lines. If Donald Trump has his way, he's going to push through their extreme agenda. Project 1825. I mean, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I roll that back. I got that wrong. Project 1925. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I roll that back. I got that wrong. Project 1925. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Project 2025. That poisonous agenda where every single state will be in a state of crisis. Remember that we have been talking about Project 2025 a long time. It's gone mainstream and people now know about it. Another notable moment from day three, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel with a message for Republicans and for the Supreme Court. Check this out. By the way, I got a message for the Republicans and the justices of the United States Supreme Court. You can pry this wedding band from

my cold, dead, gay hand. It's a good line. I will give it to her. It is a very, very good line. I will give it to her. It is a very, very good line. Another excellent speaker was Maryland Governor Wes Moore. Really good in a number of ways, talking about the importance of infrastructure with the connection to that Maryland bridge collapse that he dealt with as governor of Maryland and just overall a very good speech. Now, I joined the army when I was 17.

In fact, I was too young to sign the paperwork for me because I don't have bone spurs. So another reference, many of the military veterans who spoke at the DNC and there were a number of them referencing Donald Trump and bone spurs. A couple of people on the live stream last night said, aren't you making fun of medical conditions? I thought we didn't make fun of medical conditions. Of course, that's not what the bone spur reference is about. The bone spur reference is about the fact that I don't know that any of us believe that

Donald Trump really had any condition that prevented him from serving other than having been born with a silver spoon in his mouth and not wanting to do it and being able to get a note saying whatever the hell he wants from any doctor in New York City. That's really the criticism. It's not about, oh, we laugh at bone spurs. Minority leader in the House, Hakeem Jeffries, spoke and he analogized Donald Trump to an old boyfriend who just won't leave you the hell alone. Which brings me to you know who? Donald Trump is like an old boyfriend

who you broke up with, but he just won't go away. He has spent the last four years spinning the block, trying to get back into a relationship with the American people. Bro, we broke up with you for a reason. So, Hakeem, Jeffrey's a good speech, some better parts, some OK parts, but overall very good, extremely high expectations and anticipation for former President Bill Clinton's speech. Hilariously, during the live stream I mentioned to the audience, you know, Bill Clinton was president 32 years ago. He became president 32 years ago. He's still younger today than Donald Trump is. And very funny that Bill Clinton included that exact same line in his speech.

Two days ago, I turned 78, the oldest man in my family for a generation. And the only personal vanity I want to assert is I'm still younger than Donald Trump. It's a very good line. And then maybe Clinton was not as energetic and and effervescent as he once was. It was very apparent to the audience, but he was very effective at creating this contrast, the politics of we and the politics of me. And Trump is all about me, me, me. And when Bill Clinton addressed that during his speech, he he referenced crowd size and he really wrapped it all up together in a way that I thought was very effective.

What does your opponent do with his voice? He mostly talks about himself. Right. So the next time you. Hear him, don't count the lies. Count the eyes. Count the eyes. His vendettas, his vengeance, his complaints, his conspiracies.

He's like one of those tenors opening up before he walks out on stage like I did, trying to get his lungs open by singing, me, me, me, me, me, me. When Kamala Harris is president, every day will begin with you, you, you, you. So we got to ask ourselves the questions that we're going to hire a president. Do you want to build a strong economy from the bottom up in the middle out? Or do you want to spend the next four years talking about crowd size. The very clear point that Bill Clinton made and whether he's effervescent or not, he got the point across Trump's entire routine. And it is like a routine at this point. It's ratings based. It's what sort of marks did I get? It's a tired routine that we are all completely sick of and increasingly disgusted by. Another great speaker was Pete Buttigieg, former guest on this show and secretary of transportation.

And he had a very direct counter to J.D. Vance's claim that if you have no biological children, you lack a commitment to the future of the country. He took that. He rejected that notion. And don't even get me started on his new running mate. At least Mike Pence was polite. J.D. Vance is one of those guys who thinks if you don't live the life that he has in mind for you, then you don't count. Someone who said that if you don't have kids, you have, quote, no physical commitment to the future of this country. You know, Senator, when I deployed to Afghanistan, I didn't have kids then.

Many of the men and women who went outside the wire with me didn't have kids either. But let me tell you, our commitment to the future of this country was pretty damn physical. Choosing a guy like J.D. Vance to be America's next vice president sends a message. And the message is that they are doubling down on negativity and grievance. Committing to a concept of campaigning best summed up in one word, darkness. Very clear that that darkness and light analogy played very, very well during this convention. There was a surprise appearance from Oprah, Oprah Winfrey, not giving away any cars at the event, at least as far as I could tell, but a very, very well received speech.

They are the best of America. And despite what some would have you think, we are not so different from our neighbors. When a house is on fire, we don't ask about the homeowner's race or religion. We don't wonder who their partner is or how they voted. No, we just try to do the best we can to save them. And if the place happens to belong to a childless cat lady. Well, we try to get that cat out to. Oprah, actually very, very good at this and sparking these. We are not going back chance. And the crowd was just into it. And let us choose inclusion over retribution.

Let us choose common sense over nonsense. Because that's the best of America. And let us choose the sweet promise of tomorrow over the bitter return to yesterday. We won't go back. We won't be set back, pushed back, bullied back, kicked back. We're not going back. And then finally, before we get to the Tim Walz acceptance speech for his nomination,

Josh Shapiro, governor of Pennsylvania, extraordinarily solid, a guy I would be very curious about as a future president of the United States. Speaker 4 Kamala Harris. Well, she has spent her entire career making progress. Donald Trump, a man with no guardrails, wants to take away our rights and our freedoms. And listen, while he cloaks himself in the blanket of freedom, what he's offering isn't freedom at all. Because hear me on this, it's not freedom to tell our children what books they're allowed to read. No, it's not. And it's not freedom to tell women what they can do with their bodies. And hear me on this. It sure as hell

isn't freedom to say you can go vote, but he gets to pick the winner. That's not freedom. But you know what? You know what, Democrats? We are the party of real freedom. That's right. The kind of real freedom that comes when that child has a great public school with an awesome teacher because we believe in her future. Real freedom, real freedom that comes when we invest in the police and in the community so that child can walk to and from school and get home safely to her mama. This is not only Josh Shapiro at his best, but taking back being the party of freedom has worked really, really effectively. It probably won't shock you. Trump losing it throughout the entire

event. Trump just posting about the Democrat convention. We've got to do this. We've got to do that. These are terrible people. Comrade Kamala, she's a communist. I'm furious. This that here's polling that's fake. I'm not even going to tell you everything. The substance is irrelevant.

But as we scroll and scroll and scroll, we see conspiracy videos out of context, clips of Kamala Harris, unscientific polls from Twitter by Elon Musk, videos from right wing Breitbart, articles from right wing New York Post, articles from conspiracy site The Gateway Pundit. And it's just endless. It's and this is going every time the convention gets going. Trump just starts posting this agit trash. This is really getting to him. And if you thought the earlier speeches got to him, you've got to see Tim Walz accepting the nomination. It was extremely jarring to listen to Tim Walz's speech accepting the nomination for the Democratic Party's vice presidential position without using any slurs during his speech. He didn't launch a single vicious and disgusting personal attack against anybody. He didn't address gas versus induction

stoves. He didn't address whether he prefers electrocution or drowning. He hasn't told us how many times we'll have to flush toilets under a Harris Walls administration. It was jarring because that's what we've come to expect from Donald Trump. Here is Tim Walls accepting the nomination. It's the honor of my life to accept your nomination for vice president of the United States. We're all we're all here tonight for one beautiful, simple reason. We love this country. It's I love that Democrats in this convention have taken back patriotism and have taken back freedom. Tim Walz did it in a speech that was short and sweet.

He got right to his main points. He addressed Project 2025, which I think is, again, continues to be really important. They spent a lot of time pretending they know nothing about this. But look, I coached high school football long enough to know and trust me on this. When somebody takes the time to draw up a playbook, they're going to use it. And we know if these guys get back in the White House, they'll start jacking up the costs on the middle class. They'll repeal the Affordable Care Act. They'll gut Social Security and Medicare. And they will ban abortion across this country with or without Congress.

Now, in addition to a portion of the speech being about the horrible things Trump would like to do, he did lay out a number of policy priorities. So here this is the part clip and save it and send it to your undecided relatives so they know if you're a middle class family or a family trying to get into the middle class, Kamala Harris is going to cut your taxes. If you're getting squeezed by prescription drug prices, Kamala Harris is going to take on big pharma. If you're hoping to buy a home, Kamala Harris is going to take on Big Pharma. If you're hoping to buy a home, Kamala Harris is going to help make it more affordable. And no matter who you are, Kamala Harris is going to stand up and fight for your freedom to live the life that you want to lead. Because that's what we want for ourselves,

and it's what we want for our neighbors. You know, you might not know it, but I haven't given a lot of big speeches like this. But I have given a lot of pep talks. So let me let me finish with this team. So then he goes sort of into a wrap up and again, just a tight speech, well written. And the crowd really reacting very positively to the wrap up. Look, we got 76 days. That's nothing.

There'll be time to sleep when you're dead. We're going to leave it on the field. That's how we'll keep moving forward. That's how we'll turn the page on Donald Trump. That's how we'll build a country where workers come first. Health care and housing are human rights. And the government stays the hell out of your bedroom. That's how we make America a place where no child is left hungry, where no community is left behind, where nobody gets told they don't belong. That's how we're going to fight. And as the next president of the United States always says, when we fight, when we fight,

when we fight. Thank you. God bless. So there is Tim Walz. And then now we have down to the final day, night four of four tonight. Kamala Harris will accept the nomination to be the president of the United States representing the Democratic Party, a very solid convention. The earlier speeches, particularly like before 9 p.m. Eastern.

OK, it's a mixed bag, but really bringing everybody out and we will see what the convention bump is. So let's take a quick break. RFK is dropping out and endorsing Trump, something a lot of you said he would never do. We'll talk about that and so much more. Being this close to the presidential election, noise from the right on things like who Tim Walz really is and how Kamala Harris handled immigration is the supposed borders are is only going to intensify. And that's why I've been using ground news as a solution. Our longtime sponsor, Ground News, gathers related news and adds important context that

might influence how each outlet frames the facts. My vantage plan even gives me access to their election focused blind spot feed, diverse perspectives on the most pressing issues and the latest stories on each candidate. So you can determine the truth on who they really are, not just hearing the loudest and most biased opinions for each story you read on their platform. You'll find every article Ground News found reporting on it, as well as tags next to the source indicating if they're independently owned or not, how credible their reporting is, if they have any political bias, making it really easy to critically analyze different perspectives and come to your own conclusion. Ground News is

independent and subscriber supported, but my viewers will save 40 percent on the same vantage plan that I use for unlimited access to all of their features. Go to ground dot news slash Pacman. The link is in the podcast notes. Zypex nicotine toothpicks. Zypex brings you a convenient alternative to smoking and vaping and the vape clouds, the ashtrays, the thing in your lip that people can see. I've seen that around. This is an easier and less messy way to curb the cravings. And you can use Zypix just about anywhere. Zypix is available in six flavors with two or three milligrams strength. The nicotine and the flavor are long lasting. And Zypix has helped countless people kick the bad habits and they are bad habits. Zypix toothpicks are FDA registered. Their customer service is second to none. It is one

of the most cost effective alternatives. Also check out their B12 and caffeine toothpicks. See for yourself why so many people have switched to Zippix toothpicks. You can only get Zippix online. Go to Zippix toothpicks dot com today. Save 10 percent with the code Pacman 10 at checkout. Just remember, you must be 21 or older to order. That's ZIPPIX toothpicks dot com. Use promo code Pacman 10 at checkout for 10 percent off. That's Pacman 1 0. The info is in the podcast notes. Well, how quickly things change. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. will be dropping out and is expected to endorse Donald Trump this Friday. There are rumors that they are trying to organize a joint event. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Nicole

Shanahan will indeed kiss the ring. I told you yesterday. I told you she told you Nicole Shanahan in an interview with Tom Bilyeu said that what they were considering yesterday is do we keep going or do we get out and joined forces, endorse Donald Trump? We know that RFK Jr. tried to sort of shop his endorsement to both Trump and Kamala Harris in exchange for the promise of a position in their respective administrations. From what we know, they both said we're not even interested.

The report was that the Trump people said it's too obviously a quid pro quo and that the Harris people straight up turned down the meeting, didn't respond to the meeting. And now, indeed, RFK Jr. expected to drop out by the end of the week and plans to endorse Donald Trump. It's important to remember that this is end of the week and plans to endorse Donald Trump. It's important to remember that this is all pathetic, right? I mean, it's a big picture. It's all pathetic. Initially ran as a Democrat to inject chaos into the Democratic primary.

He attracted a bunch of money from Republicans because Republicans said, oh, he's running as a Democrat. He'll hurt Joe Biden. Let's do it. That completely ran out of steam. So then he said, I'm actually going to be running as an independent. Initially, he probably still was bad for then presumed candidate Biden. But over time, more Democrats became wise to the whole thing and Democrats mostly bailed. And Robert F. Kennedy Jr. at this point is statistically more of a hindrance to Trump.

In other words, he takes significantly more from Trump than he does from Harris. Well, now he drops out to endorse Donald Trump and that will hurt Kamala Harris. I'll tell you in a moment to what degree. But we just have to be honest. You know, a bunch of people I know got bamboozled by toolsy back in 2020. Many of them realized that they wrote to me. They said, David, you were right. It was a total scam. The very same thing is going on here. The entire RFK candidacy has been one of the more painfully stupid political storylines than anyone ever fell for.

It is only a negative reflection on the on the population of this country. And then we have to also consider what's going on behind the scenes. There is reporting that Tucker Carlson and Donald Trump Jr. have been lobbying RFK to drop out and endorse Trump because they correctly recognize this guy hurts Donald Trump. The NBC News report says a group of Trump allies has been working behind the scenes since before the Republican convention to broker a deal between Kennedy and Trump. And then the question that many of you have been asking me is, isn't this very bad for Kamala Harris? So we just have to be honest. This helps Trump. This helps Trump. But maybe not by that much. First of all, not everybody who is into RFK. Is going to hear him say, I endorse

Trump and go and vote for Trump, not everybody's going to. And so if you take let's take an example state, Michigan right now, if you look at Michigan right now, Kamala Harris is leading by two point four and Kennedy's polling five point nine. So if you just say to yourself, well, heck, if Kennedy's five point nine goes to Trump, that puts Trump four points ahead of Kamala Harris or wherever it ends up, three and a half points ahead. It is really not that simple because, first of all, Kennedy's five point nine in mid to late August includes a lot of people who by November were not going to end up voting Kennedy. Some of that Kennedy support that's currently in the polling in Michigan that we're looking

at was going to end up voting for someone else come November. And also some of them were going to stay home. Second, imagine that the outcome of that five point nine is that four point five. We're really going to vote Kennedy. Now he gets out and endorses Trump. And from that four point five, two point five ends up voting Trump and one point five Harris and half a point stays home. It helps Trump.

But the point is, it might be one point five that it ends up helping her. So the takeaway here is not we don't have to worry about this. This does hurt Kamala Harris. It only matters in the critical and close battleground states. And there are still 10 weeks or so during which the case can be made to some of those Kennedy supporters. It's a very bad idea to go out and support Donald Trump. So we'll take it for what it is. We will cover the announcement. We'll cover the endorsement. But let's not get ahead of our skis in assuming that this is devastating to Kamala Harris. Mike Pillow, Mike Lindell, or also sometimes known just as Pillow. We're talking about the founder and CEO of MyPillow. He went in a disguise to

the Democratic National Convention and he got into arguments with children. And I'm talking about a 12 year old kid. OK, Mike Lindell shaved his mustache, put on sunglasses and a hat. He really looked kind of like Walter White, but it doesn't seem as though the disguise was fooling anybody. And here is Mike Lindell arguing with a 12 year old who produces content under the name Noah with a K K and O W a pillow's just arguing with children. That's in your state. You want to know more in your state? They just found two hundred and fifty two hundred and fifty seven thousand votes.

This happened last week. A judge ruled in Georgia that her pillow just so people understand the visual pillow is hunched over, getting really close to Noah. This is a kid pointing at him, increasingly agitated. What is this guy doing missing from the 2020 election? This just came out. You're behind you. So your sources trust me, bro.

That's your source. You have to know the source. It's in your papers in Georgia. You need to read your news. You haven't give me any. I think you're new. No, this is your Georgia news. This is your Georgia.

This is your. All right. So, Mike, pillow, they're disoriented and looking sort of like a cross between Walter White and professional chess player. I'm sorry, a poker player, Phil Hellmuth, arguing with children. Our friend Adam Mockler got a quick little interview with Noah after this incident. I'm OK. He provided no facts, no sources. He refused to give me the last name, he said, for privacy. But elected officials provide their last names if they want the votes. So I'm confused as to why his source was.

Trust me, bro. Mike Lindell just got ruled by a 12 year old. This is really happening. And then finally, as further proof that Pillow's disguise was not working well, here is Adam Mockler immediately finding him and going up to him and asking him the same question a bunch of times. Why did Donald Trump need a new vice president? Why did Donald Trump need to pick a new vice president? Oh, they're saying, why is Mike Pence on the ticket? Why did Donald Trump need to pick a new vice president? Why? Why

did Donald Trump send out a tweet saying Mike Pence didn't do what needed to be done and then violence accelerated at that very moment on January 6th? Really? Wow. Is that a question? Yeah. Why did Donald Trump need to pick a new VP? Do you realize how important January 7th and 8th are?

Answer the question. Are you going to answer the question? What's the question again? Why did Donald Trump need a new vice president why why do you like the borders being open the borders aren't open they're wide open lankford introduced the bill killed by the fentanyl lankford introduced the bill and donald trump's shot right who do you work for might have been great know the name you guys have been brainwashed oh why does touch yeah these are the money's touched guys why did donald trump need a new

vp hey if you're going to show up at our convention, great that you answer a single question. You have Elon Musk instead of Jack Dorsey, corrupt Jack Dorsey. It's funny that they say Midas Touch is a Twitter account. Well, they have it. They have a Twitter account. Yes, that's true. You are a Twitter account. I don't know.

So Mike Pillow's disguise not working particularly well. And I don't know what kind of research he was hoping to do undercover, but committed enough to it that he did shave that mustache and a really, really these guys are weird. These guys are weird. That's for sure. Nice job there by Adam Mochler. Let's take a quick break. Make sure you subscribe to the YouTube channel, youtube. com slash The David Pakman Show. We have breached the thousand preorder milestone for my forthcoming book, The Echo Machine. With total humility,

I invite you to preorder the hardcover book, the e-book or the audio book. You can find it all at David Pakman dot com slash echo or on any platform that sells books, e-books or audio books. Let's go for 2000 orders. We'll take a quick break and then the show will continue. Artificial intelligence has become an integral part of my workflow every day. And one of the most powerful and unique AI tools I've ever come across is MindGrasp. Whether you're a student or you're at work or in your personal life, our sponsor MindGrasp can transform your day to day productivity and the way you consume information, because MindGrasp is a learning tool that lets you interact with any content, upload a file from your device with a large volume of words involved or paste a hyperlink.

Could be a Web page, a PDF, a Word document, PowerPoint, even audio and video files. And instantly, MindGrasp will create thoughtful notes and summaries about the content. This is something the big name AI tools cannot do because MindGrasp is optimized to handle large volumes of text all at once, as well as transcribe large audio and video files. Not even the latest chat GPT can do that. And MindGrasp is perfect for students because it can also create amazing quizzes, flashcards, study guides, references and Q&A is based on the content. The Mind Grasp Chrome extension is even compatible with Canvas, Blackboard and Panopto to further streamline your work and school

routines. Try Mind Grasp for free today at David Pakman dot com slash A.I. The link is in the podcast notes. That's David Pakman dot com slash a eye. If you're still using a free email service, your emails are often being scanned and tracked even after you delete them. Companies use the data to know everything about you and show you ads, even your most personal communications. That's why I recommend you check out start mail. Thank you, David. information private. Start Mail allows you to create unlimited email aliases, protecting your identity and reducing spam. This lets you use different email addresses for different purposes like newsletters or shopping. Plus, Start Mail lets you encrypt every email even if the recipient

doesn't use encryption. Switching is easy. You can migrate all your existing emails and contacts Thank you, David. That's about two dollars a month for a personal plan or about three dollars a month for a business plan. Plus get 25 percent off additional accounts for team members. That's S.T.A.R.T. Mail dot com slash Pacman for 50 percent off. The link is in the podcast notes. Today we welcome to the program Mark Elias, a voting rights attorney and the founder of Democracy Docket, the leading digital news platform dedicated to information analysis and opinion about voting rights and elections in the courts. You know, it's such a great time to talk to you, Mark, and also particularly possibly a scary time because we often end up sort of being behind when

it comes to ensuring that an election is going to happen the way that it should and that the will of the voters is going to be represented in the results. When I talk to people about what would we expect in 2024, given what Republicans tried in 2020, I hear two ideas. One idea is they tried but failed in 2020. We now know what to expect. We have some safeguards. It won't be Mike Pence, but it will be Kamala Harris, at least as far as tallying the electoral votes. It's sort of a more optimistic view. On the other hand, we get no, no, no, no. They smelled blood in 2020. Yes, they failed, but they have learned from their mistakes and they have new ideas.

We now need to be worried about. Are you partial to one side or the other of that? Yeah, I think I come out closer to the second. Right. I mean, yes, they failed in 2020. But but a couple of things I would warn people about. The first is they have upgraded their legal talent. Like, you know,

we're litigating, you know, my law firm and I are litigating in, you know, five dozen or more cases around the country. And over the course of the last few years have litigated hundreds of cases. And we're not running into the Jenna Ellis's and the Rudy Giuliani's, right? This is not the cracking crazy lawsuits of Sidney Powell. They have upgraded their lawyers and they have used this time to try to develop new legal theories. Now, those theories, to be clear, are not gaining much purchase. They are still losing. But they have learned something from their mistakes about how to approach both voter suppression and election subversion. The second thing is that

Donald Trump has, and this has been a hallmark of his candidacy and his career, he has shifted the Overton window of what is acceptable. So, you know, stuff that would have been seen as out of bounds in the run-up to the 2020 election is now kind of just like expected of him, right? So the notion that they are, for example, suing to make it easier to harass voters and election officials is something that would have struck people as preposterous even in the run-up to 2020. So they are much more aggressive in their legal tactics. They are much more aggressive in their legal strategies.

And then finally, I would add one thing, which is that the system has been under an enormous amount of stress now for years upon years. And you're starting to see that stress take its tolls. You have seen good election officials leave. You have seen more election deniers get into office. And so the internal workings of the election administration process is also starting to show signs of stress. We've been seeing headlines recently about Trump leaning election officials in a number

of different states. We talked about the story out of Georgia, which if I understand it correctly and if not, I know I know that you'll correct me in in Georgia, a a normally bureaucratic official who is there not to evaluate anything, but basically to sign off, hey, we've done it, we've counted votes. They now have some potentially discretionary power to say, I don't like what I'm seeing here to some degree. Explain that to us. Yeah. So I think that, you know, apropos of your first question, this is probably the clearest example of where they have evolved over time in their tactics. So in 2020, there was in one state

in Michigan where the Republicans tried to get the the county canvassing board from Wayne County, which is Detroit, to refuse to sign the certification documents. Now, that's a ministerial act. What do I mean by that? There's no discretion in whether they sign these documents. It is a formality. It's part of the pageantry of democracy that, you know, after elections, you get these canvassing boards that come in and sign off on the paperwork, right? And Donald Trump and Ronald McDaniel actually called the local county officials responsible for the certification and tried to get them to refuse to certify. That failed, okay? And we then saw them try at the state level, and that failed, and then obviously at Congress.

Well, so what have they now done in the run-up to 2024? They have tried to replace who are on these state canvassing boards with election deniers who will refuse to certify even when they don't have discretion. And in Georgia, they are trying to change the rules so that those election officials actually have more discretion and make this less ministerial. So they are both changing the personnel. They're changing the identity of the scoreboard operators and also trying to give those people more power.

And that is what we're seeing in Georgia. But it's not just in Georgia. You know, in 2022, we saw Cochise County, Arizona, tried to refuse to certify the election results. My law firm and I brought litigation and prevented that from happening. We saw it in Pennsylvania and elsewhere. And I expect that that is the kind of thing that shows the evolution of the of the Trump election in our movement. I mean, I don't know exactly how to ask this, but as someone who's been following that evolution,

how worried should we be and how much of this can we prevent in in advance with some kind of strategy versus how much of it is by nature just reacting to whatever they try? So, look, you can always be prepared for everything you can be prepared for, but you can never know what you aren't prepared for. That makes sense. Or as as Donald Rumsfeld once said, there are the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns. Right. So, look, I mean, I think voters should have confidence that there are good election officials, there are lawyers, there are non-profits, there are political campaigns that are focused on these issues and will ensure that every lawful vote counts and that they are

eventually certified. But that doesn't mean that you can prepare for every new tactic. I mean, that that the that the other side is going to come up for. So so I want people to be attentive. I want people to be prepared. But I don't want people to be defeatist because Donald Trump wins when people when the cynics win, he wants people to lose hope. And there's one thing that Kamala Harris has reinvigorated in the Democratic Party is a sense of joy and hopefulness. Speaking of Kamala Harris, as I mentioned, it will be Kamala Harris, not Mike Pence counting the Electoral College votes in January. How relevant and important is that big picture to the strategy that they may try to apply? Look, I mean, so to be clear, she doesn't count them. She oversees the county overseas.verseas. Fair. Yeah. Right. And Congress

passed something, a new law, the Electoral Count Reform Act that clarified the limited role of the vice president and made some other changes that make it harder for things to go wrong in Congress. I think that it is obviously better that you have Kamala Harris rather than Mike Pence. I think it is better if we have Speaker Jeffries than if we have Speaker Johnson and so forth. But I think that the place that people ought to be focusing their attention, and this was my opinion, frankly, in 2020 as well, is at these local levels, right? It is hard for the process to get derailed after the electors have been selected and they voted in the electoral college. I won't say it's impossible, but it is hard. It is much easier if you are the Republicans trying to be disruptive to do the kinds of things like you see them trying in Georgia, to do the

kinds of things like I mentioned they did in Arizona in 2020 at the local county level, because it's just there are so many more counties, right? And you can be more disruptive at that local level. So I'm glad Congress passed the Electoral Count Reform Act. And I am confident that we will have accurate certification in Congress. And I'm confident we'll have it at the state and local level. But that's, I think that the fact that we have a Democratic Secretary of State in Nevada, in Arizona, in Michigan, in Pennsylvania are much more significant than what what's going to go on in the halls of Congress. So I'm hearing you say you have a level of confidence. I've also it was either read or maybe it was a transcript of an interview or something

you wrote where you are predicting that there will be some refuse attempted refusals, at least at the local level. Explain why you both expect the refusals to be attempted, but in a general sense are confident. Yeah, look, I mean, Donald Trump at a political rally called out three of five members of the otherwise obscure Georgia State Board Elections Board. OK, and it's interesting that, A, he called them out. He called them out by name. He said that they were pit bulls and that one of the things they would do is help ensure

his victory. And that, as I mentioned, he called out only three of the five. So it's not even like he's like the board as a whole is doing well. He was like, these three are doing well. And that is because his plan is to make it harder for you to vote and easier for him to cheat after the election. And having these local election boards where there are election deniers have discretion is a way in which he can try to set the stage for his folks to cheat after the election. Now, that's why I think that this is significant.

The fact that we saw that in Cochise County, Arizona, we saw that in counties in Pennsylvania in 2022 was instructive. The fact that we beat them in court was instructive on how to fight back. So I think people need to be expecting and be concerned, and I am concerned, don't get me wrong, I worry about everything, that we could see this take place in county after county after county around the country. But ultimately, the fact is these county officials don't have the discretion not to certify. They can't gum up the works. They can't undermine free and fair elections lawfully. And so you will

have lawyers like me and others turning to the courts and insisting that the courts step in where the political branches fail. And I have every confidence that as we saw in 2020, the courts will hold. Let's say the courts hold eventually, but what they succeed at is creating delays of different kinds. And you could tell us what categories of delays are even possible. But let's imagine that there's there's able to they're able to introduce a delay during something that's supposed to take two weeks and it stretches. What could the effect of that be? Yeah. So there was a lot of talk about this in 2020. And I think it's a really good question to, again, give people a refresher for 2024. So different elections have different timetables for when

things must happen. So very, you know, somewhat famously, I represented Al Franken in a Senate recount in 2008. He was not sworn in finally until July, right? So for House and Senate, you have deadlines of certification that are really for early January when Congress gets sworn in. But, you know, you can have a Congress that is not full, does not have every election resolved at the time that it takes place. You can't really do that when you're talking about a governor or a president, right? So the certification timetables are more compressed. And for president, we are really talking about meeting what is referred to as the safe harbor deadline. This is the deadline by which if states certify their election results all the way through the governor, that when that slate of electors then presents their credentials and votes as part of the Electoral College, there's a presumption, a very strong presumption that that is the accurate slate of electors and it can't be challenged. The date after that is actually the meeting of the Electoral College. The final date after that is January 6th, which is the day that Congress tallies the votes. So it's a relatively

quicker timetable than what I just described, for example, for the Senate and the House, where you try to meet that early January deadline, but it's not essential. And in 2020, one of the strategies that Republicans engaged in, that Donald Trump engaged in, was to try to force those deadlines to slip. In fact, one of the least, I think, well understood facts, David, about the violent insurrection on January 6th is that the reason why they were storming the Capitol on January 6th was to prevent certification on the date prescribed in the Constitution. They had this theory that if there was no certification on January 6th, that somehow Donald Trump could then just stay in office.

If you can somehow make it to midnight, then it's like null and void and Trump just stays as president, I guess. That's exactly right. And if you remember in the days after January 6th, Peter Navarro talked about the Green Bay sweep and that this was the theory, right? And that, and so like, so we worry a lot about the time deadlines and whether they are not necessarily playing for success, but they are playing for delay. I think the fact is we all know that, like that is one of the things where we have gotten much smarter after 2020. I mean, we do it in 2020, but I think that there will be a real effort to push and make sure states are meeting their marks and meeting their deadlines. You know, I hate to see everything in a partisan lens, but speaking for myself, if Donald Trump

really wins this thing, I want him to be the president. I don't want to end up not having Trump through this sort of subterfuge and manipulation. It would be devastating in terms of my opinion of what's happening in the United States as far as the electorate, what people's values and priorities are. But like if Trump wins this thing, then, wow, we've really got to look at ourselves rather rather than at delays or, you know, ministerial, perversions, the way you're talking about. It looks like as. Yeah, go ahead. I was going to say, let me let me react to that. You know, I have I sat with Hillary Clinton on election night in 2016, and there was nothing that I

wanted more than to say there is a legal way for this election to not turn out the way it is. And ultimately, you know, she made the correct decision, the hard decision. Believe me, it was a hard decision to accept the results, even though she had won the popular vote, even though people were calling for us to seek recounts and contests and all of that. In 2004, I was a general counsel to John Kerry when we lost the presidency and what was a devastating loss for the country. If you look back and Mark, just to remind the audience, if I remember, that was one

hundred and forty thousand votes in Ohio that that hinged on. Yeah. Yeah. And once again, we made the hard decision that there just wasn't a way to contest the outcome of Ohio and flip the election. So I have told candidates that. I've also been involved in very close elections where they have gone to recounts and the results have been have changed. And most often times they don't. But sometimes they do. But that's but you're talking about elections that are decided by hundreds of votes, you know, not not tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of votes. Right. And I think that is where, you know, what Donald Trump did in 2020 really did a disservice for the country.

In the sense that it has reframed sort of the entire conversation around the concept of opinion as to who won rather than fact. Yeah, exactly. I mean, look, the fact is that Donald Trump didn't lose a single state by, you know, a very, very narrow margin. He lost five states. You know, by the end of the day, you know, Donald Trump's claim was he was cheated in Nevada. He was cheated in Arizona. He was cheated in Pennsylvania. He was cheated in Wisconsin. He was cheated in Georgia. I mean, now he wasn't cheating in any of those states, but there was some type of post-election challenge in each of those. There were recounts or contests or other litigation in any of those states, but there was some type of post-election challenge in each of those. There were recounts or contests or other litigation in all of those states. And like that did a real disservice to the country, you know, because the fact is it wasn't just that he lost, he did, he lost Georgia by 11,000 votes, which is a lot of votes. It is that he lost Michigan by,

you know, tens of thousands. He lost Michigan by tens of thousands. He lost Pennsylvania by tens of thousands. He lost Wisconsin by tens of thousands. And he created, though, in among Republicans, this sense that even when you lose seven million by seven million votes in the popular vote, even when you lose by multiple states, you can still somehow just throw, you know, and then you lose 60 plus lawsuits. You can still say somehow you're aggrieved. And that is really unhealthy for democracy. Before I get to my final question, one kind of just wacky thing I wanted to get your reaction to some of the stranger things I heard in the aftermath of 2020 were the ones that stand

out were that some of the Arizona ballots had a particular type of bamboo fiber that is not native to Arizona. And that might be indicative of fill in the blanks. Some of the Arizona ballots had a particular type of bamboo fiber that is not native to Arizona. And that might be indicative of fill in the blanks. What kind of foul play might be a bamboo that grows in China, et cetera. In Pennsylvania, something about the number of sandwiches that were delivered to election workers did not seem commensurate with the number of election workers. Therefore, maybe there were ballots either being brought in or taken out different versions of these sort of stories. When you hear that sort of stuff,

that's not even in the ballpark of the things that could ever even really help them. Right. Like that's just the wacky stuff. That's not the techniques you look at and try to prevent. That's right. I mean, and that's why I started by when you asked me the where am I on the spectrum, like the kinds of claims that they were making after 2020 were just ridiculous. I mean, the all of the stuff about the dead Venezuelan dictator somehow having rigged the machines crazy. You know, remember, we referred to not we. The other side referred to a series of their cases filed in Georgia and Michigan and elsewhere as the Kraken cases. Kraken is a mythological sea creature. I mean, like, I mean, the stuff we got from the other side, you know, you mentioned the bamboo fibers in Arizona,

that was not true. They also had a theory about Sharpie pens. There was a whole thing called Sharpie gate. They filed three lawsuits over alleged the use of Sharpie pens. There were no Sharpie pens. I mean, like, like it just like, it was all crazy stuff. What I want folks to understand is that they are, have upgraded their legal theories. They are still not meritorious. They, but they are more traditional voter suppression theories. They are based on lies, but they are

not the kinds of crazy, crazy lies that we saw peddled in 2020. So we're all going to be, you know, busy making sure that democracy is protected. Unfortunately, the other side is going to be trying to, you know, mislead people and spread disinformation, misinformation. But but but it is not likely going to be the wildest, crazy theories that we saw in the past. So last thing, very often after listening to 20 minutes of this sort of thing, people end up depressed and overwhelmed. But then they go back to if we win by so much that this stuff isn't even plausible, that's the best insurance against any of these techniques. Is that true? Is it true that if this is a landslide victory for Kamala Harris,

everything that they would try to do becomes even more difficult? So, look, the most important thing people can do is to make sure they are registered to vote. They have a plan to vote and that they vote. OK. And that their friends and family do, because certainly the most important thing is that Kamala Harris get more votes in more states within the Electoral College than Donald Trump. And the larger the margin, the harder it is for Donald Trump to contest those margins in court. But I also want to be realistic about something, which is that Donald Trump's lies about elections have only grown larger and larger. I think Donald Trump has said that he believes he won Minnesota. Okay. Like he lost Minnesota by seven points. Like Donald Trump has said that he's going to win New York and he's

going to win New Jersey. I mean, I think that even if Kamala Harris won every swing state, plus, you know, the next round of states, you know, North Carolina, whatever, you know, wins Texas, Florida, and it's an electoral college landslide, and the closest race is several hundred thousand votes, Donald Trump is still going to come out and say that was fraud. So we need to just bake into the cake that Donald Trump is never going to accept that he lost an election. He is always going to falsely claim fraud and his supporters will unfortunately support him. And we cannot assume that the establishment Republican parties, such as it is, will do the right thing. I mean, the fact is they haven't done the right thing in years around these election denial lies. And so that's going to be the state of play. But should we aim for the most robust victory for Kamala Harris and Tim Walz? Absolutely. Should we

aim for an overwhelming sweep in the U.S. Senate? Believe me, yes. Should we want Hakeem Jeffries to have a 25 to 50 vote majority in the House? From from my ear, my mouth to God's ears. Right. That we should want all those things. But we should also recognize that it is not going to stop the other side from lying. All right. Mark Elias, voting rights attorney and founder of Democracy Docket. Mark, thanks so much for talking to us and also for all the great work you're doing.

David, thank you for having me. And thank you for your contribution to spreading good information out there. So many of us are busy. We may not always have time to nutritionally plan out every meal and make sure we're getting the exact amount of this mineral or that vitamin. And that's why I like AG1. Our sponsor AG1 is the daily scoop you mix into water or your smoothie to get 75 high quality vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and nutrients from only whole food sources. Just a single scoop covers me nutritionally for the whole day. AG1 is just simpler and faster and more cost effective, by the way, than fumbling with a dozen different vitamin pills and products. AG one can support all sorts of different functions

and it promotes diversity in your microbiome. In a research study, AG one was shown to even double the healthy bacteria in your gut. Staying healthy is just about habits that are sustainable. They have to be sustainable, which is why I've been using AG one in the morning for years now. Thank you. Plus five free AG one travel packs with your first subscription order at drink AG one dot com slash Pacman. That's drink AG the number one dot com slash Pacman. The link is in the podcast notes. As a contrast to what we saw at the Democratic National Convention last night, Donald Trump held an event in Asheboro, North Carolina. He was visibly disoriented. He now

hides in a glass box that's bulletproof. And the audience was silent during much of this event. You know, the the big picture about these Trump events lately, the big picture is the crowds are diminished. The people that go sometimes fall asleep. They sometimes sit there silently. They often leave early. And there is something missing now. It's either the material is stale or people are getting bored or Trump's getting bored. This is Trump's first outdoor event since the shooting.

You can see that Trump now goes into a sort of bulletproof glass box for the speeches. Check this out. All right. So as Trump is waving, you see the enclosure which he eventually stands behind now as a quick interlude before we hear from Trump. J.D. Vance introduced Trump and he said something that he has said before, which doesn't make any sense. So they tried to put him in prison and they even tried to kill him. But it's sure you hear that they tried to kill him. But it's sure you hear that they tried to kill him.

I thought that Republicans didn't like they to refer to one person. One Republican tried to kill Trump. And he continues to do this extraordinarily dishonest thing where he suggests that the forces that investigated Trump and the forces that impeached Trump, who are different, by the way, in and of themselves, are somehow tied in with the they who tried to kill Trump when it was one Republican with a gun. One Republican with a gun tried to kill Trump, not they. Trump does a sort of informal survey of the audience asking whether they want him to start personally attacking Barack Hussein Obama. It could have been Barack Hussein Obama.

Perhaps we should ask him. Now, he was very nasty last night. I try and be nice to people, you know, Trump does not try to be nice to people. Trump is known for personal attack politics, but it's a little tough when they get personal. Please, again, remember, please, sir, don't get personal. Talk about policy. Let me ask you about that. We're going to do a free poll. Here's the two questions. Should I get personal? Should I not get press already? Should I get personal? Should I not get personal? I don't know. My advisers are fired.

Now, I would rather keep it on policy, but sometimes it's hard when you're attacked from all ends. I mean, they want to put you in jail for. Right. If it weren't for the fact that they attack Trump and want to put him in jail, none of which was true in 2015 when he started the politics of personal attacks, he would never go there. Very believable explanation. It's because of what they're doing to him. Trump very clearly setting the stage for another coup attempt. He's starting to now say they are going to cheat,

period. And everything lies in ruin. Look, we are going to fight like hell to win this election. They are going to cheat like hell to win the election because they have no bounds. They have no bounds. And that is yet again a reminder. We had better be damn ready. We need to be. And this is part of what today's interview is about. Right. We need to be ready. We need to anticipate every strategy that they are going to attempt because Trump's making it clear they're going to try to steal it again. Trump claims the military will be so hot when he's

president, super hot that everybody will want to join. Spirit, pride and prestige will soon come roaring back and reach levels never seen before. We're going to make it so hot that I'm going to want to resign and join the military. I don't know what rank I would start at. I guess I started private. I don't know what rank would I have to start at. General, I have to start pretty low. There you go. So, of course, we know that Trump would never do anything like that. He got doctor's notes to not have to be drafted and lies all the time about how he would run in to save people. In the case of a mass shooting, he would never do it ever, ever, ever. It's ridiculous.

Then we started the sort of acutely incoherent part of the rally. We've seen some of the generally incoherent part. We now go to the acutely incoherent ramp. We had goggles brand new right out of the box. You know, they didn't fight at night because they never had goggles. Right. Good fighters. They never had goggles.

Now they have brand new goggles. We had goggles, goggles. And then also another favorite topic of Trump's is ammunition. We've heard him talk about that before. We had it built. We rebuilt it. We rebuilt the whole military, but it was decimated under this group of stupid people. You know, we had so much when I came in, we had no ammunition. Did you know that?

Remember, I used to talk about it. I had forgotten about that partially because it's not true. And I said, if it's true, which it was, why would you say that? We had people on television. Well, the United States has no ammunition. You know, some things you just they said, sir, we have no bullets. And it was because of Obama. Obama. Anyway, as is often the case now, Fox News either cuts away from the speech or tries to say wash it by acting like it was normal. And Martha McCallum on Fox tries to rebrand the deranged rantings of a madman as a forceful rebuke, a forceful rebuke. All right. There you have it. Former President Trump in North Carolina with a forceful rebuke

and challenge to Vice President Harris on the national security front. Yes, the rant about goggles really, really, really was a strong moment for Trump's rebuke as the Trump Vance ticket battles the narrative here at the DNC. Now in day three, Trump won. There you go. So there's a little saying washing from Martha McCallum for you. Trump's interviews getting as deranged as the rallies.

And I want to briefly take a detour there. This morning, Donald Trump appeared on Fox and Friends. This was meant to be a softball interview meant to give Trump some positive press in a context where they've been going after him accurately, but roughly at the DNC. Trump sounds depressed. His voice seems almost gone. And he just seems very confused throughout the entire interview. Mr. President, when you listen to the DNC and all the speeches, they're spreading so many different lies. And we eat, breathe and sleep this, as you do, too, more than we do.

And you know that what they're saying is wrong, but you don't hear your take. There's no one fact checking. And here. Yes. Just like was the case when Trump lied 100 times at the RNC and there was no one there fact checking. There's nothing unique to the fact that there's no live fact checking from the other party at the convention. Tim Walz trying to still connect you to Project 2025. Listen. Some folks just don't understand what it takes to be a good neighbor. Take Donald Trump and J.D. Vance. Their Project 2025 will make things much, much harder for people who are just trying to live their lives. It's an agenda that serves nobody except the richest and the most extreme amongst us. All right.

So this is your chance to set the record straight. What's your response? Well, first of all, he's a total lightweight and he shouldn't be even having any access to possibly being president. The guy he's been a terrible governor. They've had nothing but problems in their state. He has no capability. Remember that Trump has praised Tim Walz

as governor many times. They call him coach. He's a semi-coach. He coached some football for a little while. This guy is a lightweight and he shouldn't have access. And for him to say about Project 25 is disgraceful. They know I have nothing to do with it.

I had no idea what it was. A group of people got together. They drew up some conservative values, very conservative values. And in some case, perhaps they went over the line. Perhaps they did. I have no idea what project. So Trump continuing to try to distance despite the inextricable overlap between Project 2025 and Trump staffers.

Trump also suggests that Chicago bring back stop and frisk. They want if there's a dollar or rather do stop and frisk Trump presidency. What would you do in Chicago? First of all, you I know the people in Chicago. I know the police because I built the building. They spent a lot of time building. It was a it's a great building, a really great building. And what happened is I got to know a lot of people, including the police.

You have a great police force in Chicago, just like you do in New York, just like you do in Los Angeles. You have great they're not allowed to do their jobs. You've got to let the police do their jobs. Number one. Number two, you have to do a policy of stop and frisk. Now, people like Trump love stop and frisk because it bolsters their superficial law and order credentials.

The only problem is that there are studies that have shown that while stop and frisk can in the short term reduce certain types of crime. Specifically where you are aggressively enforcing it, the overall impact on crime reduction seems to be very unclear. Like there was a comprehensive analysis done of stop and frisk in New York where where it was maybe most famously implemented. And it found, yeah, in the immediate aftermath of stop and frisk in the immediate area where you do it, you see a decline in certain types of crime. But then what happened was they scaled back the policy and crime continued to decline

everywhere roughly the same amount. And it seems like it was actually more about the fact that the crime rate was just declining broadly. Of course, there are also negative social consequences to stop and frisk. Its application is disproportionate in its targeting of minorities. It's a mess. And Trump's big idea is stop and frisk because they just love it. They love stop and frisk at the core. They believe that it proves they are for law and order. Trump not committing crimes would be a better way for him to show us that he's for law and order. And then finally, Trump again with the

comrade comrade Kamala stuff and makes a completely unproven claim about her meeting with Putin. And the Fox host has to say, by the way, we have no evidence that that happened. Biden sent I call her comrade Kamala, said Comrade Kamala to see Putin in Russia three days before the attack. She went, she said she gave her case. He attacked three days later. He attacked three days later. He laughed at her. He thought she was a joke. Yeah. And just as a quick clarification, we don't have confirmation that the vice president went to Russia to meet. We have no evidence what Trump said is with Vladimir Putin. I know she went over to Europe right before the the incursion when Russia invaded Ukraine. And it's a war that's still going on right now. Yeah. When the lie is so big, even Fox News has to correct it. You know that it's a whopper of a lie. So Trump's rallies disoriented and confused.

Trump's interviews disoriented and confused. And the country is seeing the alternative here, which is the positive vision outlined at the DNC. We have a voicemail number. That number is two one nine two. David P. Here's a caller with a good question about where is Kamala on the political spectrum? David, sir, this is James. I noticed that you and shows like yours and Kyle Kalinske's Young Turks, they often say that Kamala Harris is a centrist.

So I've not said that and I don't know what other shows are saying, but I'll still answer the question once it comes out. So that begs the question, was she a liar in 2019 and 2020 when she was president and she was taking these hard left positions like health care for illegals and Medicare for all and reparations and considering defunding the police. I mean, those aren't centrist positions. So how did you either have to use the centrist with those positions or if you do say she's a centrist, was she lying then? Speaker 1 Yeah. So as usual, ask me to respond to things I've actually said. I've never referred to But you took those positions or if you do say she's a centrist, was she lying then? Yeah.

So as usual, ask me to respond to things I've actually said. I've never referred to Kamala Harris as a centrist and I've never referred to her as a far left extremist. You know, there we have groups that hate Kamala Harris because they claim she's a communist and groups that hate Kamala Harris because they say she's a centrist vulture capitalist. Well, they should talk to each other and figure out exactly what she is. Is she the centrist or is she the extreme leftist? Does she want to defund and end the police as some on the right claim? Or does she carry the police's water by having prosecuted people for marijuana as some on the

left claim? Now, of course, where one is on the political spectrum to some degree is sort of like compared to who else. But there's a lot of straight up lying here. The reality, especially as Kamala Harris's record in the Senate as vice president and as far as policy that she has outlined here is a very uncontroversial on the left, not far left, not centrist placement in Europe. Kamala Harris would be considered certainly more centrist in the American context. Kamala Harris seems to be running where Biden ran or slightly to the left, which, by the way, on paper, President Biden is the most left wing president we've ever had. Biden ran to the left of President Obama, who ran to the left of Bill Clinton. So on paper, Kamala Harris seems to be shaking out roughly where Biden is. This is absolutely on the left.

It's to the left of Obama. It's to the right of Bernie Sanders, not a communist, not a vulture centrist capitalist or whatever. So we need to start with ask me to defend things I've actually said. And we need to start with actually understanding what the reality of the situation is. We've got a fantastic bonus show for you today. Don't miss it. Sign up at join Pacman dot com. You can use the coupon code DNC, Not weird to get a 60 percent discount.

I'll see you then. And we'll be back tomorrow for The Friday Show.