The David Pakman Show - 8/23/23: Teacher fired for reading book, Trump's lawyer arrested

Episode Date: August 23, 2023

-- On the Show: -- Teacher Katie RInderle is fired in Georgia for reading a book containing a non-binary character to her class -- 2024 Republican presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy told CNN's Kaitlan Collins that a quote about 9/11 was incorrect, but now the audio has been released confirming the quote is accurate -- One of Donald Trump's lawyers, John Eastman, has been arrested in Georgia -- A bombshell report reveals that Mark Meadows, Donald Trump's former Chief-of-Staff, ratted Trump out to federal investigators -- Georgia prosecutor Fani Willis threatens Mark Meadows with an arrest warrant if he does not turn himself in -- A key Trump witness has retracted his false testimony after firing his MAGA lawyer -- Rudy Giuliani has been begging Donald Trump to help him with his legal fees, and Trump will reportedly hold a fundraiser for Rudy -- Donald Trump explodes in another insane Truth Social rant on the day he is skipping the first Republican debate, and on the eve of his arrest in Georgia -- Right-wing commentator Dan Bongino suggests that Donald Trump not pay his $200,000 bond in Georgia and allow himself to be kept in jail until his trial -- Voicemail caller tells David that he is "a boy" -- On the Bonus Show: Student loan debt forgiveness begins for 800,000 borrowers, India lands on the moon, 33% think COVID vaccine killed thousands, much more... 👍 Use code PAKMAN for 10% off the Füm Journey Pack at https://tryfum.com/PAKMAN 🛡️ Incogni: The first 100 people to use code PAKMAN will get 60% off at http://incogni.com/pakman 🧻 Reel Paper: Code PAKMAN for 30% OFF + free shipping at https://reelpaper.com/pakman ✉️ StartMail: Get 50% OFF a year subscription at https://startmail.com/pakman -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to Pakman Live: https://www.youtube.com/pakmanlive -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

Speaker 1 We start today with the latest victim of the anti woke mob. A teacher has been fired in Georgia because she read a book to her class that contains a non binary character. That's the entire story. Let's start with the Daily Beast reporting. This is about teacher Katie Rinderle. Katie Rinderle was terminated effective immediately for reading a book that included a non-binary character to her fifth grade class in March. Fifth grade, of course, being 10 year olds typically at the start of the school year and 11 year olds at the end of the school year. In fifth grade, we had health class about reproductive health and the idea that that's

appropriate. But a mere book with a non binary character would be inappropriate, is very difficult to make heads or tails out of. And as we read the details, as written by Daily Beast editor Matt Young in this article, you will truly see how absurd this is. A fifth grade elementary teacher was fired effective immediately Thursday by an Atlanta school board in the latest fallout from conservative retaliation to diversity in schools across the U.S. Cobb County School Board voted four to three close vote close to four to three in favor of upholding Superintendent Chris Ragsdale's recommendation

to fire due West Elementary School teacher Katie Rinderle. The vote reverses a tribunal panel recommendation from earlier the week that would let her keep her job. What happened is that in March, a parent complained. A parent complained because Katie Rinder Lee read the book My Shadow is Purple to her class. Ragsdale raged at the time that the book violated a state classroom censorship law, which bans and restricts teachers from introducing divisive concepts, including race and sexual identity into the classroom. Now understand that all that happened here is the book. My shadow is purple, contains a non binary character.

The way that the law is written, as we predicted, as we knew was vague enough that it could be argued if parents wanted to, if a school board wanted to, if a superintendent wanted to, it could be argued that the impact is divisive. Race and sexual identity is mentioning that black people exist divisive. I think most of us would agree it is not is mentioning that some kids have two moms divisive. I certainly don't think so. It's a fact of life. It is a fact that some kids have two moms. It is a fact that some homo sapiens and some of hundreds or thousands of other species are attracted to members of their species of the same sex. That is a fact. It shouldn't be divisive to mention that. And it is a fact that humans express gender on a spectrum and that non-binary identity exists. Now, whether you

believe that the topic of non-binary individuals is better suited for a sociology class or a biology class or a psychology class that is up for debate. And it is a valid discussion that some want to have in good faith and some want to have in bad faith. But it is an undeniable reality. It shouldn't be divisive or controversial to merely know that non-binary exists. And that is all that happened. According to publisher Larrick and House, My Shadow is Purple, written by Scott Stewart, is, quote, a heartwarming and inspiring book about being true to yourself, a value I thought these right wingers heralded that considers gender beyond binary in a vibrant spectrum of color. And the idea, of course, my my shadow is purple, is that in the same way that our shadows might be different colors, there are spectra when

it comes to gender and other characteristics. The story features a non-binary character. That is that is where we are. When we talk about not taking away the speech of individuals, when we talk about hearing all voices and all of these principles that the right claims to want to uphold and to value and to revere, you have to really understand that it only applies as convenient to their preexisting worldview. If their preexisting worldview is that ideas like maybe slavery was good for black people when that's the diversity that they want in the classroom, they will go through and say, we should allow teachers to teach what they want. We should allow parents to recommend texts that might say, hey,

in addition to the story about slavery was bad for black people, we should also welcome at the table in the interests of free speech and openness the possibility that maybe slavery was good for black people. And then we say, well, but hold on a second. That that's crazy. That's objectively false. No, no, no, no. You're trying to limit speech. Reverse it.

In this case, we have a story which simply mentions non-binary gender identity exists. It's not pushing it on anybody. It's not recruiting children to non-binary identity. The idea that that's even a thing is a whole other story. It's not doing any of those things well, but let's defend it. Right. I mean, in the interests of openness and diversity. And if the teacher thought that this was a good text, oh, no, no, no, no, no. We don't mean this kind of diversity of voices and diversity of opinion. We only mean maybe slavery was good for black people. So the principle that these right wingers fighting these culture wars claim to abide by and to hold as almost sacred principles only apply when it is convenient for them. We saw this when it came to mask and vaccines during the

pandemic. We've seen this when it comes to gender identity. We've seen, you know, the whole drag show thing is you would believe if you only listen to these right wingers, you might end up believing it sounds like drag shows are just part of school curricula. It sounds like children are being forced to attend drag shows. And then you look and you say, oh, sometimes parents might choose to bring their kids to drag time story hour. That's all that's going on. That's called freedom. It's I can choose to bring my kid to this or not. And even that these right wingers

are against. So just remember their most important principles that they espouse, whether it's freedom of opinion or free speech or let's not regulate businesses. It's all until it's inconvenient for us. And then the principles go down the toilet, sometimes needing to be flushed 10 to 15 times. We are going to continue covering these abandonments of their stated principles. The latest victim, Katie Rinderle in Georgia. Does she have recourse to sue for wrongful termination? We just don't know at this point in time. It's too early to say, but we're certainly going to follow it. One of the things that we have quickly learned about 2024 Republican presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy, We learned it thanks to his interview

on this show. And we've learned it thanks to other interviews that he has done is that he is able to confidently and slickly lie right to your face. And unless you actually do the work of researching and fact checking, you will not realize that Vivek is lying to your face. We have another example of this. Recently, Vivek Ramaswamy was interviewed by CNN's Caitlin Collins. And one of the topics that came up is that he made some controversial comments about 9-11. I'm talking about the September 11th attacks on the United States. And when Caitlin Collins confronted him with these statements that he was quoted as having made, he simply says, I didn't say that's the wrong quote. Then the audio was released and it turns out that Caitlin Collins quote was verbatim correct.

And this is an example. Remember when he denies the quote is accurate in the clip I'm about to play for you, he is lying to Caitlin Collins face, but he does it with a smile on his face and a confident attitude. And that is why I think he may do quite well at tonight's Republican debate, because he is able to lie confidently and with a smile on his face. Let's take a look at the interview from two nights ago, and then we are going to see the listen to the audio that proves that Caitlin Collins quote was correct. Here we go. Never said it was sufficient. Excuse me. Give another comment that you've made that is getting

attention today about 9-11 report in the Atlantic that you gave an interview to. You said, quote, I think it is legitimate to say how many police, how many federal agents were on the planes that hit the Twin Towers. Maybe the answer is zero. It probably is zero for all I know, right? I have no reason to think it was anything other than zero. But if we're doing a comprehensive assessment of what happened on 9-11, we have a 9-11 commission. Absolutely, there should be an answer. The public knows the answer to. Explain to me what you meant there. This is really, it's funny. I mean, the Atlantic is playing the same game as CNN. It's funny. What I said is on January 6th, I do believe that there were many federal agents in the field and we deserve to know who they are.

On 9-11, what I've said is that the government lied. And this is incontrovertible evidence, Caitlin. The government lied about Saudi Arabia's involvement. There was a Saudi spy named al-Bayoumi who they lied and the government lied and the 9-11 commission lied. We know that because declassified reports in 2021 revealed that al-Bayoumi was indeed. What's that? Yeah. The report that the president Biden declassified. But your quote here, are you telling me that the quote is wrong here? 20 years later, yeah. But are you telling me that your quote is wrong here because it says how many federal agents were on the plane? I actually asked. When I actually, and this is just lifting the curtain on how media works again.

I asked that reporter to send the recording because it was on the record. He refused to do it. But we had a free-flowing conversation. The truth is there are lies the government has told about 9-11. All right. So he says very clearly the quote is wrong. The quote is there are lies the government has told about 9-11, but it's not. All right. So he says very clearly that the quote is wrong. The quote is simply wrong. Well, hours later, Atlantic writer John Hendy calls Vivek's bluff and the audio is released and the audio is exactly it is verbatim what Caitlin Collins read to the fake Ramaswamy. Here it is.

Well, there's a difference between arapment and difference in law enforcement. I think it is legitimate to say how many police, how many federal agents were on the planes that hit the Twin Towers. Like, I think we want maybe the answer is zero, probably a zero for all I know. Right. That is the verbatim quote that the fake Ramaswamy with a smile on his face said to Caitlin Collins, the quote is wrong. So I think the takeaway here and listen, politicians lie is not a particularly new or insightful perspective on what we are seeing here. But what is worthwhile to consider is that there is a sort of atmosphere or environment or, or ambiance around Vivek Ramaswamy that he is somehow different

than these other candidates. He's the straight shooter. He's the guy who's prepared and is going to tell you things the way they are. And he's not like everybody else in some intangible or even tangible way. But the truth is he's just a better liar. That's really what we're learning about Vivek Ramaswamy. And he has increased in the polls to some degree from from one to seven. And if Ron DeSantis continues to falter, it is conceivable that Vivek Ramaswamy will soon find himself in second place, maybe not nationally in the Republican primary, but maybe in some particular states within the Republican primary. And much of what is going to be discussed is how incredibly articulate and and and precise and accurate he is on

so many issues. He's willing to just tell straight up lies while smiling to you and people fall for it. So yet another Vivek Ramaswamy lie uncovered like that as soon as the audio is released. Tonight's debate will be very interesting. I hope you will join me. I will be live streaming a pre show and the entire debate itself. Maybe Fox News will take us down. Maybe they won't.

I don't know. But I look forward to you joining me tonight, starting at 8 p.m. Eastern Time. Debate is at 9 p.m. Eastern. Make sure you're subscribed to the YouTube channel, youtube.com slash the David Pakman show. Something that's been in the news a lot lately is data brokers collecting vast amounts of data about everything you do on your phone and computer, where you go, what you look at.

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Donald Trump's lawyer, one of them, has been arrested in Georgia and Donald Trump is next. We're talking about John Eastman. He turned himself in. MAGA's real meaning, as many of you now know, is making attorneys get attorneys. How many lawyers have ended up in legal hot water? Thanks to their association with Donald Trump. Axios has a report full list of Trump co-defendants in the Georgia case who have surrendered. The first of former President Donald Trump's 18 co-defendants surrendered to authorities Tuesday. They all,

of course, have until August 25th to turn themselves in at noon at Fulton County Jail. Donald Trump announcing that he will be turning himself in tomorrow. Scott Hall is the bail bondsman who was the first to surrender yesterday. And then John Eastman, John Eastman, the former Trump lawyer who championed the legal theory that Trump used used to pressure then Vice President Mike Pence to overturn the election results also turned himself in on Tuesday. My legal team and I will vigorously contest every count of the indictment in which I am named.

The reason that Eastman specifically there are others, as you see here, David Schaefer, former chairman of the Georgia GOP, turned himself in. Kathy Latham, former chair of the Coffey County GOP. She was a fake elector. She turned herself in. Kenneth Cheese, bro. And Ray Smith. OK, why is Eastman so interesting?

When we first learned about the memo that Eastman wrote suggesting, hey, let's pressure Pence to send it back to the states, reject the electors. When we first learned about that, legal experts who are sane, not random whack job lawyers, but legal experts who are sane immediately responded by saying this may have criminal liability for John Eastman. This is not simply, oh, it's a legal advice letter and it's completely immune from any any kind of potential criminal exposure. Legal experts right away said the suggestions Eastman was writing to the Trump team are so outside the bounds of the law that there may be criminal liability there. We have now come full circle and John Eastman has been arrested.

He has been charged and he has been arrested and he will soon be arraigned. We have what do we have here? Oh, we have the jail record of Eastman lists him as five, seven, one sixty with gray or partially gray brown hair. And it lists the full list of offenses. They date back, as you can see, to November 4th of 2020 violation of Georgia Rico. It is a an extensive list of alleged crimes, conspiracy to commit forgery, solicitation of violation of oath of a public office, conspiracy to commit impersonating a public officer, conspiracy to commit false statements and writings, et cetera, et cetera. These are extraordinarily serious charges.

Eastman was reached outside the courthouse by a reporter from MSNBC and asked, do you still think the election was stolen? And Eastman says, absolutely. Asked him about the 2020 election. Watch some of our exchange. Do you still think the election was stolen? Absolutely. Absolutely. Still. No question. No question. And you won't answer on immunity from prosecution. Do you think that the others in this case have a standing on that? People like Meadows? No comment. Did they do a mugshot and everything inside?

No comment. All right. So Eastman is not willing to comment on almost anything other than, yes, the election was absolutely still stolen. Here is another bit of interview with Eastman. Do you regret attaching your name to Trump? Have you talked to the former president at all? Nope. Do you regret attaching your name to the former president? None whatsoever. Not at all. None. What's none whatsoever, he says, does not regret associating himself with Donald Trump. So the dominoes are starting to fall. Eastman is in serious criminal legal trouble. We will talk later about Rudy Giuliani. It's unclear whether Rudy even has a lawyer, but defendant number one, Donald Trump, will be surrendering tomorrow in Georgia and we will cover it.

We have been asking the question over recent weeks. Why is Mark Meadows not listed in the federal indictments against Donald Trump? Yes, Meadows was indicted in Georgia. And it's important to keep things separate. Meadows indicted in Georgia, not indicted federally. Why was Mark Meadows not indicted federally? One of the. Suppositions, one of the hypotheses about why Mark Meadows was not indicted federally was that Meadows cooperated, Meadows flipped, Meadows gave the goods on Donald Trump. That was a hypothesis. We didn't know much about it. It now appears that we have learned why. And it is indeed the reason we suspected for a very long time. The media is reporting it as Mark Meadows ratted out Trump to the feds. There's a New

York Times piece which explains the former White House chief of staff, a key witness to Donald Trump's efforts to remain in power after his 2020 loss, maneuvered to provide federal prosecutors only what he had to. And the article explains this winter after Meadows got a subpoena from a grand jury investigating Trump's attempts to overturn the 2020 election, Meadows started what they describe as a delicate dance with federal prosecutors. He had no choice but to show up, writes the New York Times, and eventually to testify. Yet, Mr. Meadows, Trump's final White House chief of staff, initially declined to answer certain questions, sticking to his former boss's position that it's shielded by executive privilege. But and this is the critical but. But when prosecutors working

for special counsel Jack Smith challenged Trump's executive privilege claims before a judge, Meadows pivoted. Even though he risked enraging Trump, he decided to trust Smith's team, according to someone familiar. Meadows quietly arranged to talk with them not only about the steps that Trump took to stay in office, but also about his handling of classified documents after he left. The episode illustrated the wary steps Meadows took to navigate legal and political peril as prosecutors closed in on Trump, seeking to avoid being charged himself while also sidestepping the career risks of being seen as cooperating with what his Republican allies

had cast as partisan prosecute persecution of the former president. His high wire legal act hit a new challenge this month. Meadows strategy essentially worked federally. It did not help him avoid similar charges in Georgia. This is exactly what we believed was going on. And I think it is important that the corporate media step away from he ratted out Trump to he told the truth as he saw it. He did the right thing. They shouldn't be helping mobsters or mobster like figures. And it is of critical importance to understand that it is not only Meadows, whose name is suspiciously missing from the federal indictments. There is another name suspiciously missing from federal indictments, and that is Jared Kushner.

Of course, Donald Trump's son in law, the husband of Trump's daughter, Ivanka Trump. We don't know that Kushner cooperated. We don't know that Kushner ratted out or use whatever term you want about Donald Trump. But what we do know is that Jared and Ivanka drew a very clear line separating themselves from Donald Trump politically when it comes to 2024 with Ivanka putting out a statement along the lines of we support my dad and et cetera, et cetera. But we are not going to be participating in public politics going forward.

We wish him the best, but we're sort of out. And there is now the question, as there has been with Mark Meadows, what was Kushner's participation in any in these investigations federally? And is his participation the reason why he is not named in those federal indictments? All right. Now sticking with Mark Meadows, but shifting from the federal indictment to Georgia. And I know it's so difficult to keep track of all of this. Mark Meadows, through his attorneys, has asked for an extension to surrender in the state of Georgia. As you may have heard by now, ad nauseum, the defendants in the Georgia criminal case involving

Trump and others, Rudy Giuliani, Mark Meadows, John Eastman, so many different individuals. They have been given a deadline by Fannie Willis of noon on Friday to surrender and to be booked at Fulton County Jail. The every indication we have is that Donald Trump is going to surrender tomorrow, Thursday. We don't know when Rudy Giuliani is going to surrender. We know that some others have already surrendered. Mark Meadows has asked for an going to surrender. We know that some others have already surrendered. Mark Meadows has asked for an extension to surrender. And Fannie Willis is straight up saying no extension. What I granted was very generous. And if he doesn't show up, I will put a warrant out for his arrest, essentially saying we are going to come and get him and bring him in, which would be quite a scene.

Here is the statement put out by Fannie Willis to John Moran. Good morning, Mr. Moran. I am not granting any extensions. I gave two weeks for people to surrender, surrender themselves to the court. Your client is no different than any other criminal defendant in this jurisdiction. The two weeks was a tremendous courtesy at 1230 p.m. on Friday. I shall file warrants in the system. My team has availability to meet to discuss reasonable consent bonds Wednesday and Thursday. Yours in service, Fannie Willis. There is a two tier justice system. It is not Democrats and Republicans. It is the rich and the privileged and the wealthy elites and everybody else. And Mark Meadows here through his lawyers is asking for something special because of who he is and the particulars

of this case and the charges. And Fannie Willis is saying, I'm not going to give it to you. Do I believe it will come to an arrest warrant for Mark Meadows because he's not going to show up by noon on Friday? No, I think he's going to show up. But we have to remember that when they talk about the two tier justice system, it is one that they benefit from. It is not Democrats and Republicans. It's us special and privileged people. And we've talked about this before when it comes to the bond conditions placed on Donald Trump or lack of conditions and the undeniable understanding that were Trump just a random person facing four criminal trials in four different jurisdictions and owning a plane, he would not be given the conditions he has been given. That is not a Democrat or Republican thing. It is a rich guy, privileged, powerful Trump thing. And so the two

tier justice system exists. It is one that has benefited all of these folks in small and not so small ways already. After the break, we continue to wade through the muck and mire of these legal circumstances. A key witness related to the Mar-a-Lago security footage. This is another very important thing which gets buried because of all the other criminal trials. A key witness has retracted their false testimony after getting rid of their MAGA lawyer. Were they encouraged to lie by their lawyer? That would be against the law. We will discuss it after this short break. Exactly what our sponsor fume helps you do. Fume is not a vape. I don't advertise vape stuff.

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you send and receive even after you delete it. They're usually using the data to build a picture of your life to show you ads, which many find creepy. Our sponsors start mail never scans or tracks your emails. Privacy is what comes first. And unlike other email services, when you delete an email and start mail, it is gone forever. It also protects your data by blocking tracking pixels in emails, which companies and hackers can use to track you. You can create unlimited email aliases to protect your identity and cut down on spam. You can encrypt every email you send, even if the recipient isn't We'll be right back. I don't know how many of you remember the confusion and skepticism about what happened at Mar-a-Lago regarding the security footage in which at least in theory we could see boxes of classified documents being moved around.

This is an entire sort of mini vignette in and of itself of the entire federal documents case. And remember, that is one of now only one of only four cases against Donald Trump. And it's really difficult to keep all of this stuff straight. But the incredible bombshell headline is that a Trump employee connected to the Mar-a-Lago security footage has retracted his earlier claims about the footage after he got rid of his MAGA lawyer. This is incredible stuff. A.J. McDougal reporting for The Daily Beast. The former maintenance worker was previously represented by Stanley Woodward, who is also representing Trump's alleged co-conspirator Walt Nauda.

But that is not the case anymore. And this is truly incredible. A former maintenance worker at Mar-a-Lago now being eyed as a key witness to an attempt to conceal evidence from the government, retracted his grand jury testimony after switching lawyers, according to special counsel Jack Smith's office yesterday. The unidentified staffer is being named as Trump employee number four. It is believed that that employee is you still to Varus, who was in charge of the security camera system at Mar-a-Lago, this security camera system, an incredibly central element of that case. Initially, Trump employee number four said to a grand jury, I wasn't privy to any attempt

to delete the security footage. That's what he said originally. He later got rid of his MAGA lawyer, OK, and is now working with a lawyer offered by the Federal Defender's Office in Washington. And all of a sudden he is telling a very different story. Smith's office has put out a filing where he says immediately after receiving new counsel, Tavares retracted his prior testimony and provided information that implicated Trump and his two alleged co-conspirators, quote, in efforts to delete security camera footage. If this is true.

This is extraordinarily damning sources familiar with the matter, said to ABC News that the decision to switch lawyers and cooperate came after he received a target letter from Smith in June, indicating that he knew Tavares perjured himself during his testimony and warning of criminal charges. So listen, this is truly huge. It's huge because of the testimony itself that there may have been attempts to delete the security camera footage. This is what was initially alleged. This is what was initially reported and believed they they're the moving of the documents to hide them from authorities was on video. Then they went in and they tried or successfully did delete that security camera video. That's huge in and of

itself. But there's a second layer to this. Why did Tavares say this initially? Why did he initially lie, as he now says and claim? I don't know anything about trying to delete security camera footage. Did he lie because the MAGA lawyer either encouraged or straight up told him to lie? If that is what happened, if that is what happened, then it is yet another lawyer who may have committed a crime because it is illegal and obviously unethical for a lawyer to advise or encourage a client to lie in court. In most jurisdictions, lawyers have what's called the duty of candor to the court, meaning they are obligated to be truthful, not to present false evidence or information to a court.

Can they have someone simply not testify, for example, if they believe the individual is going to lie or that the testimony would be disadvantageous? Yes, of course you can do that. Of course you can do that's called legal strategy. But for a lawyer to suggest a lie is a crime in just about every jurisdiction. If a lawyer advises a client to do that, they can face obviously professional consequences, but they can also face criminal charges. I spoke to criminal defense lawyers today about this and I asked in different states, friends of mine, I said, how do you manage such a situation?

And they all told me some version of the same thing, which is when I suspect my client is going to lie, forget about advising a client to lie. OK, but if you suspect your client is going to lie, you just try to keep them off the stand, period. If they are adamant about it and they want to testify, what you would try to do is certainly not participate in any line of questioning that would welcome or encourage those lies to come forward. But the point here is honest lawyers would do everything they can to avoid knowingly putting a client up to lie. Would you, in your defense of a client,

exclude topics that would be disadvantageous to them? Of course you would. And remember, this is there. There are two different things. One is, do you still try to get a client you suspect is guilty acquitted? Of course, this is the way the legal system works. Whether you did it or not, you are entitled to a defense, the best defense you can afford, the best defense you can muster, whatever the case may be. So this is not about, oh, do do guilty people deserve a lawyer? We've adjudicated that many times. This is about encouraging or even allowing circumstances where, you know, your client is going to lie. And so now there is yet another question about a MAGA lawyer. What on earth is going on with

these MAGA lawyers? Yet another one may find himself facing criminal charges. Rudy Giuliani, we haven't talked about him for a little while. Rudy Giuliani has to turn himself in in Georgia by noon on Friday. Is he going to do it? I assume so. Does Rudy Giuliani currently have a lawyer defending him? Reports are it's unclear whether Rudy has a lawyer. But more importantly, does Rudy have money for the legal defense that he now needs to mount?

Apparently not. There is a report from the New Republic that a desperate Rudy Giuliani visited Mar-a-Lago to beg Donald Trump to help him with his legal fees. And the article by Edith Olmstead reads a desperate Rudy traveled all the way to Mar-a-Lago to beg Trump to pay his legal fees. But Trump didn't seem all that interested in donating, according to a new CNN report, Giuliani. And it says his lawyer. It's not clear whether this lawyer still represents him. Giuliani and his then lawyer, Robert Costello, visited Trump in April, hoping an in-person appeal to Trump would better persuade him to help Rudy pay his growing legal bills.

They met with Trump twice. Trump verbally agreed to pay some of the bills. He was not specific about how much he offered, gave no timeline. And of course, at this point in time, there is not the belief that Trump has paid for anything. But things are looking up a little bit for Rudy Giuliani. The Daily Beast reports Trump is holding a Giuliani fundraiser for one hundred thousand dollars per ticket. Apparently, one hundred grand will get you dinner at Trump's Bedminster Golf Club with both Trump and Giuliani. And apparently the money will go to Rudy Giuliani's legal defense.

Rudy is not the only person in Trump's former orbit who is now struggling to pay legal bills. Remember Jenna Ellis? She's the one who may have contracted COVID through flatulence from Rudy Giuliani. Quite an incredible medical accomplishment. Jenna Ellis is now tweeting, quote, I was reliably informed Trump isn't funding any of us who are indicted. Would this change if he becomes the nominee? Why then? Not now. I totally agree. This has become a bigger principle than just one man. So why isn't Maga Inc funding everyone's defense? Well, Jenna, it's because he doesn't care about you. Trump only cares about anyone, friends, people who voted for

him, people who donated to him, his lawyers. Trump only cares about people to the extent and for as long as they are useful to him. Jenna Ellis isn't useful to Trump anymore. She's a laughingstock. Rudy, quite frankly, isn't useful to Trump anymore. So we'll see whether Trump actually ends up giving Rudy any of his own money other than just this fundraiser. I don't know. But Jenna Ellis was never really. Jenna Ellis is known only for her association with Trump. Rudy Giuliani, love him or hate him, was actually a popular New York City mayor and former mayor for a long time. He was seen as a reasonable Republican Republican for a long time. Rudy Giuliani and the late Senator John McCain were often mentioned in the same breath as just reasonable Republicans that

you can talk to in a normal way. You might disagree about tax policy. You might disagree about foreign policy, but they're they're sane in some way. And then Rudy Giuliani, through no fault of anybody else's, it is only through his own choices. Rudy Giuliani attached his caboose to the Trump horse and is now in the situation he finds himself, which is disgraced. Begging Trump for legal fees and being widely ridiculed, not only in the United States, but quite frankly, globally, couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, right? Well, it is where it is, where we are. We will follow the Rudy fundraising story. I will let you know if Rudy turns himself in tomorrow, today, tomorrow, Friday. He has until noon.

Trump expected to do so tomorrow. Rudy Giuliani, we don't yet know. Tonight is the first 2024 Republican presidential debate. Donald Trump will not be there. The other candidates who have qualified will. I will be covering it live tomorrow. Donald Trump will be turning himself in in the state of Georgia at Fulton County Jail, where he will be arrested and booked in his fourth

criminal indictment. It probably will not shock most of you to know that the last few hours for Trump have been insane rant after insane rant on the eve of his arrest and on the day of the debate that he is indeed skipping. We won't spend a lot of time on it, but we will quickly look at some of the things that Donald Trump posted to truth central engaging the caps lock and posting quote, nobody has ever fought for election integrity like president Donald J. Trump. For doing so, I will proudly be arrested tomorrow afternoon in Georgia. God bless the United States of America. Now, I don't want to dwell on this, but it really bears repeating. Trump and his defenders are insisting that he genuinely thought he won in 2020 and therefore

everything he did by definition was legal. That is not the fact of the matter when it comes to the law and it is not the fact of the matter when it comes to the law. And it is not the fact of the matter when it comes to the indictment. What we have here. And again, at this point, it's also muddled because there are so many different indictments. It is not because Trump even lied that he won that he is getting indicted anywhere, as was made clear in the second federal indictment. And as is also the case inherently in the Georgia indictment, Trump is allowed to talk about the election. Trump is allowed to lie about the election results. None of these indictments are as a result of Trump, quote, lying about the election results.

It doesn't matter whether when Trump said I won, he knew he was lying or he genuinely believed it. The issue federally and in Georgia is that Trump went on to attempt to disenfranchise voters based on the facts of the election, whatever Trump's opinion was. And that is criminal. And you are talking about conspiracy to disenfranchise. You are talking about conspiracy to get others to lie. Fake electors pressure on public officials is a combination now of the second federal indictment and the Georgia indictment.

They want you to think Trump's being indicted because of his speech and because he fought for election integrity or whatever the case may be. Trump can do all of those things. He's entitled to demand that his complaints be listened to and adjudicated and he can file as many court filings as he want. And he did. And they all went against him because he didn't have the facts on his side. None of that is at issue here. What is at issue is only what is in the indictments. And it is Donald Trump's actions and the conspiracies in which he was involved that rise to the

level of criminality. So don't get tricked into this whole I really believed I won and that's what I was fighting for. Therefore, I couldn't have committed any crimes. That is not the way the law is written. Trump continuing on truth, social truth, central quote for the first time in three years, brave American patriots will be able in court to show how the presidential election of 2020 was rigged and Stalin for those rhinos, radical left Democrats, communists, Marxists, fascists and others who say don't look back, look forward. They either do not want to reveal the answers because they, quote, got away with murder or are fools and cowards because we know the answers to all of the fraud, irregularities and cheating. And we cannot let it happen again.

You might look at that and say that is a serious word salad, sir. What on earth is this guy talking about? This is Trump referring. Trump was going to have a press conference Monday to lay out his proof that the election was stolen. I'm sorry, stolen. He canceled that press conference, apparently on lawyers advice that it would be a very bad idea, saying instead, we're going to make this case in court. It's going to get me acquitted in court, exonerated in court. So what Trump is now referring to is that a legal defense to the

indictment or indictments against him. We don't know which ones Georgia, maybe the second federal Trump is going to argue as a defense. The election was truly stolen from me. Now, there are two problems with that. First, there is still no evidence the election was stolen. Mike Pillow wasn't able to find any evidence. We're doing a class action lawsuit against all machines. Right. Donald Trump was not able to find any evidence that even a single court found compelling. It's been years. They've been looking for it. They just can't find the evidence. So problem number one with the defense of it was really stolen is there's no evidence that it was stolen.

The second problem is that even if Trump were able to demonstrate that it was stolen, it would not actually exonerate him from the crimes he is accused of because that's not the way that the law actually works. It's not the way the statutes are written. So those are pretty significant impediments to using proof of theft as a defense. OK, and then lastly, Trump continuing to attempt to counter program tonight's debate. Remember, Trump is just saying I'm not going to be there. Trump has already filmed an interview with disgraced Fox News host Tucker Carlson and Trump announcing on Truth Social, quote, My interview with Tucker Carlson will be aired

tonight at 9 p.m. Sparks will fly. Enjoy. It's going to be quite a 24 hours, my friends. As we discussed yesterday, Donald Trump will have a two hundred thousand dollar bond when he turns himself into Fulton County Jail in Georgia tomorrow. One of the discussions has been should Trump get bond at all? Second discussion has been is two hundred thousand dollars the right amount. But never in this conversation has the possibility of Trump not

bailing out been discussed until now. Former Fox News, I guess, host or contributor and right wing dude Dan Bongino has an interesting idea. His idea is that Donald Trump should not pay the two hundred thousand dollar bond and should allow himself to sit in jail, I guess, until his trial in Georgia, which would be months. And Bongino's idea is this will shut down the jail. Secret Service will be in there. It's going to be a mess. Show them whose boss send a message.

What message? I don't know, but I can't possibly explain it as eloquently or articulately as Dan Bongino can. So let's listen to his suggestion. Folks, I don't think the Trump team should post the bomb. I don't. But this may sound like a crazy idea. It does. But folks, we're living in crazy times and crazy times require different crazy bold approaches.

Right. Fannie Willis wants to be a smart ass tyrant, little socialist communist like she is down in Fulton County, Georgia. Remember that there's no evidence of socialism or communism from Fannie Willis. Don't post. Don't post a bond. You know, jail him. Let's elect our first political prisoner. Go ahead.

So, so he's going to be in jail a while. It sounds like Jews go to jail. Let the secret service shut the entire jail down and we'll see how long you're willing to keep this charade going. Let him put them in jail for a bit. Folks, I know it sounds crazy. Let the Secret Service shut that entire floor down. Because remember, Title 18, USC 3056. And I believe 1752. The Secret Service has the absolute federal authority, the supremacy clause. They can declare anything, a federally protected area, even a prison cell. They can clear out that entire wing of the prison

and make sure Donald Trump never sees another human being in that prison other than the secret service. I wouldn't post. You may think it's a crazy idea. I don't think so. Folks, you've seen people around the world take a stand like this. What is the stand that he would be taking? That's the crazy thing. It's easy for me to say. I get it. I wouldn't be the one in a prison cell. But you want to send a message? Let's see. Let's see what happens. We should hold protests outside of that prison cell every single day.

Don't post. Don't post a bond. Make them put you in jail and make them show America their asses and show America who they really are. And let's see how long this lasts. Folks, I think the F around and find out the time has long since passed. There you go. Incredibly powerful, brave declarations from Dan Bongino that Trump should sit in jail, I guess, for like a year and a half. The funniest thing about all of this, there's so much

that doesn't make sense about this. Right. First of all, the idea that what if Trump allows himself to be jailed, they'll drop the charges or what? What exactly does Bongino think would happen if Trump were to do that? That's the first question. Second thing is, does a single person in my audience believe that they're incredibly pampered, weak hero Donald Trump could handle a day in jail? Does Bongino do any of the Trump supporters think that Trump could could actually make it in jail for a day, never mind a week or a month or until the twenty twenty four election, at which point they will elect a political prisoner, whatever that means. This may be. One of the dumbest ideas that Dan Bongino has ever had, and it makes it absolutely perfect, perfect for his own audience.

And again, what is the message you would be sending that when you don't bail yourself out, you end up sitting in prison and jail? Rather, I think most people who have been defendants know that already. It is a bizarre suggestion, and I can guarantee you Trump won't do it because Trump can't handle it. Trump can't handle it. Trump can't handle it. And it is that simple. Trump will surrender.

He will bail himself out and he will talk about how unfairly I've been treating. I've been treated by everybody. So just so unfairly, the officers in the jail were crying, sir, what they're making us do. You won't believe it. That's what will take place. Trump's sitting in jail till the election. Give me a break. We have a voicemail number and that number is two one nine two. David P. If you watch the show, if you listen to the show and something I say makes you feel

an urge to react, to weigh in, to tell me something. You can call our voicemail number anytime, quite literally anytime. Many people call it 4 a.m., 4 a.m. my time or their time. I don't know. It doesn't matter. 2192 David P. Here's a caller who says I'm nothing but a boy. I think he means boy. Take a listen. David Pakman, you are a coward. Andy, no, is a hero. You call him the worst and you are the worst. You deserve to have your patootie kicked. You are a boy, Mr. Packman. You are a boy.

Wow. Listen, for all of the gender confusion that these right wingers claim is being fomented by us on the left. I'm really glad it's heartwarming that this individual was able to identify that I am a boy and not a girl. I think that's where that's where we will leave it. I appreciate the call. We have such a fantastic bonus show for you today in the midst of endless political insanity.

President Joe Biden has now done dramatically more student loan debt forgiveness than any other president in the history of the United States. And with the new student loan debt forgiveness program that we previously told you about starting. There are 800000 additional borrowers who will now qualify for forgiveness. I'll give you the details. Might you qualify? We will discuss. Secondly, early this morning, US time, India landed on the moon with their Chandrayaan three vessel or mission, I guess we would call it. We will talk about that on the bonus show. What is going on from the standpoint of the moon and Mars and of course, NARS, the United

States will be the first nation to land an astronaut on NARS. That is a day I really am awaiting the NARS landing. And lastly, in a new survey, 33 percent of Americans believe that at least thousands of people have been killed by the covid vaccine. A third of Americans, you get three people in a room on average. One of them will say thousands of people have been killed by the covid vaccine. There's no evidence of that. Do they care about evidence? It doesn't seem like it. I hope that you will join me tonight at eight p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific for the first official 2024 presidential debate. This is the Republican primary debate.

That's where we start this evening. Tomorrow we will have Trump's arrest live and an incredible remaining week of programing. Make sure you're signed up at join Pacman dot com at minimum. And I mean, like absolute minimum. Make sure that you're subscribed on YouTube at YouTube dot com slash the David Pakman show. I'll see you on the bonus show. the world.