The David Pakman Show - 9/23/22: Pillow Hires Dershowitz, Trump Support Unchanged

Episode Date: September 23, 2022

-- On the Show: -- MyPillow CEO and Founder Mike Lindell has hired attorney Alan Dershowitz to represent him, who will argue that the FBI's seizure of his phone was unconstitutional -- A federal appeals court puts an end to the delays and tells the Department of Justice it can resume its use of the seized Mar-a-Lago documents from Donald Trump -- Support for Donald Trump is unaffected, per a new poll, despite all of the recent turmoil and insanity -- Caller asks if Republicans want to usher in a new Jim Crow era -- Caller suspects Republicans will cut funding for Ukraine if they take back Congress -- Caller discusses the high cost of electric vehicles -- Caller talks about the possibility of a Trump indictment -- Caller wonders if now is the right time to buy a house -- Caller asks if the left should care about how the right reacts to things -- Caller wonders if Republicans are going to oust another lawmaker as they did to Madison Cawthorn -- Caller asks if the US military should defend Taiwan against China -- Caller wonders if evangelicals are more motivated by power or fear -- David responds to viewer emails and social media messages -- On the Bonus Show: Gavin Newsom reportedly will run for president if Biden doesn't, House GOP unveils agenda if they win in November, nitrogen hypoxia execution stayed, and much more... 🍎 Use code PAKMAN50 for 50% OFF your first Little Spoon order: https://littlespoon.com 💪 Athletic Greens is offering FREE year-supply of Vitamin D at https://athleticgreens.com/pakman -- Become a Supporter: http://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow -- Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/thedavidpakmanshow -- Subscribe to the Pakman Live YouTube Channel: https://www.davidpakman.com/pakmanlive -- Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave us a message at The David Pakman Show Voicemail Line (219)-2DAVIDP

Speaker 1 Well, sometimes truth really is stranger than fiction. This is going to be hard for many of you to believe. But the transformation of Alan Dershowitz seems almost complete. He is now representing MyPillow CEO and founder Mike Lindell. Now, when I say transformation in the interview we're going to look at shortly, Dershowitz says he's still a liberal Democrat who voted for Biden, but that he's getting involved in these cases because of the principles, the legal principles, et cetera. It is a cartoonish mess that pillow is. And then you add Dershowitz to it and it is just some kind of very strange salad of some kind. I don't even know what words to apply to it.

Here is Dershowitz saying he is going to ask for a special master for the pillow cell phone. It's every single one of these things couldn't be a bigger joke. Remember that Mike Pillow's phone was seized by the FBI at a Hardee's drive through not long ago. And here is Pillow interviewing his new lawyer, Alan Dershowitz. Issue this for the telephone so that they can get in search the telephone. And what we're seeking is what President Trump got in the Mar-a-Lago case, the appointment of a special investigator to look into this or return of the cell phone, because the the search was a general search,

the kind of general search that the framers of our Constitution wanted to specifically outlaw on the Fourth Amendment. Speaker 1 Now, Dershowitz is a lawyer, and so are Trump's lawyers, Alina Habba and Christina Bob and all those people. They made the same argument after the search warrant was executed at Mar-a-Lago. They said this was a fishing expedition. It was general. They sort of took everything. There was no discretion. This is unconstitutional. And then, of course, it didn't actually turn out that any judge or court agreed with them. Here is an interview on the Law and Crime Network wherein Alan Dershowitz explains, why are you working for Mike Pillow?

Now the answer might be because Mike Pillow has a lot of money. That might be the real answer. I don't know. But take a listen to some of this. Well, thank you. First of all, let me tell you why I'm representing Mike Lindell. I agree with him about very little. I think the election was fair.

I think he's wrong in challenging the election. We're on completely different sides. I'm a liberal Democrat. I voted for Biden. He's a conservative Republican. I think it's critically important for people on my side of the political fence, people who are Biden supporters, supporters of the election to hold the Justice Department accountable for trying to target our political enemies. I think the criticism should come from within our party, not only outside the party. So I'm very anxious to defend the Constitution on behalf of Michael Lindell. The search itself was clearly a general search.

OK, and then he makes the same point we heard him make in the earlier segment. Now, listen, here's the story with this. If how can I say this? The fact that it took this long for there to be any action given Trump's consistent wrongdoing year after year after year tells us that if there were really. Any. Biased interest in how this went down, it's that the FBI and DOJ were too reluctant to get involved in going after Trump. So what Pillow and Trump and Dershowitz want us to believe is the fact that these things happened at all, that there was the raid on Mar-a-Lago, that there was the seizure of pillow cell phone.

The fact that these things happened at all is indicative of political bias and attempts at political retribution. There has been so much wrongdoing that the way I see it is the fact that it took this long suggests they were really reluctant and they wanted to be really careful and really sure. And of course, all the evidence we have points that way. When you look at the search warrant for the Mar-a-Lago, when you look at the fact that the attorney general signed off, the FBI director signed off, a judge signed off, everything was made just so. And it didn't really matter to the Trump is because they still said it was illegal.

It's a political witch hunt, all these different things. They'll say that either way. But so far, no court has found that any of those arguments have merit. My expectation is that courts will similarly find that Dershowitz's arguments about the pillow phone seizure, pillow phone seizure. Those are the terms we're using will also be without merit. That's my expectation. We will watch and we will see the continued bad news for the failed former President Donald Trump. In an appeals court now says the Department of Justice can resume its criminal probe of the classified documents that

were obtained at Mar-a-Lago. Remember, once that search warrant was executed and the documents were taken, seized, the Trump side said we need a special master. There's medical documents in there. There's privileged documents in their special masters. Got to look at all of it and, you know, classified, declassified, just a complete and total mess. We are now moving beyond that. As CNN reports, a federal appeals court is allowing the Justice Department to continue looking at those documents marked classified, seized from Trump. The emergency intervention upends a trial judge's order over those documents that had blocked federal investigators work on the documents and is a strong rebuke of the Trump team's attempt to suggest without evidence that materials were somehow declassified. Remember what happened. The special master said, listen.

If you're going to make this argument about classification, then make it and we're going to move on very quickly if you don't, because the special master said, which I told you two days ago, you give me a document that says top secret. And you don't present any evidence that it was declassified. That's it. Essentially a cut the crap moment. And that is exactly what is going on here. The ruling was issued by a three judge panel of the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Two of the three judges were nominated by Donald Trump. This is supposed to be quite a conservative court. And it really goes to show that the arguments Trump was making in public were completely and totally absurd. Perhaps the funniest line from the entire thing is, quote, For our part, we cannot discern why the plaintiff would have an individual interest in or need for any of the 100 documents with classification markings. And that sort of says it all. We can't figure that out as well. It was for Trump's memoirs. He doesn't read or write. Trump wanted to review the documents. He doesn't read or write. They were for Trump's library. The library is not even something Trump is really thinking of, according to many insiders. There's just no reasonable explanation other than really thinking of, according to many insiders.

There's just no reasonable explanation other than bad ones. He wanted to sell them. He wanted to use them as leverage. Horrible, horrible things that border on treason. The judges couldn't understand it either. So the investigation continues. There is now an indictment watch taking place. We'll see where we are another month or two from now. Let's look at here's a question that we've been asking for a while. And that question is, are all of these investigations into Trump going to hurt his approval rating? And on the one hand, if approval reacted to the real world, the answer would be it sure as hell should look at all of the legal trouble and wrongdoing that we've learned about just in the last six weeks about Donald Trump. But when you're dealing with a cult, it doesn't always work that way. And indeed, Trump's support

remains unmoved by investigations. Poll finds this is in The New York Times is the upshot. And it says even during peak crises during his presidency, views of him were static. Post-presidency polls have continued the trend. The American public's view of Trump is remarkably stable across a number of different measures in recent months, even as he faces multiple investigations and remains a central figure in the midterm elections. This is a New York Times Siena College poll, and it finds 44 percent of voters view Trump favorably. Fifty three percent view him unfavorably. The recent poll was fielded early this month after news of the Justice Department's inquiry into Trump's handling of confidential documents. But before yesterday, the day before yesterday's lawsuit announcement, the level of Trump support has effectively been unchanged since the last poll in July, which was during the January

6th committee hearings. This is a cult, folks, and that is what we should expect. Think about it. Jim Jones People's Temple. This is the, you know, drink the Kool-Aid disaster that we now know about and that we've known about for decades. I should say it's not it's not recent news. If you went to the followers of Jim Jones and you said he's under investigation for sexual assault and he's under investigation for embezzlement and he's under investigation for sexual assault and he's under investigation for embezzlement and he's under investigation for tax evasion.

And we have pretty good evidence on all of it. Do you think that Jim Jones followers would have said, oh, well, then I'm no I'm not behind him anymore? No, because it was a cult. And that is how cult leaders work. When you don't care about reality to start your support of Trump, reality isn't going to dissuade you from your support of Trump. And when he said I could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and I wouldn't lose support,

he wasn't wrong. That's exactly right. And if he did shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, we all know how it would go. It would be, well, he was provoked. It was self defense. There was a violent Antifa or BLM member who was doing something to Trump. That's how it would go. It wouldn't necessarily be. It's great that he shot someone, although you probably would be able to find that. You'd probably find some people who say that the person he shot was one of those pedophiles that QAnon is fighting against or whatever. But for the most part, people go,

no, no, no. It was self-defense. You got to understand the circumstances. And he's there's threats to his life all the time. He reasonably feared for it and all. He's absolutely right when he said I would be able to shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose any support. So it shouldn't surprise us that Trump's approval hasn't diminished at all. But it raises questions about what happens with Trump ism in 2022 and in 2024, which will be something we look at extensively in the next few weeks leading up to these midterm elections, which are now imminent. We're now looking at looking at what is it, five and a half, six weeks or so from now. Make sure that you're

following me on Twitter at the Pacman and let me know what you think. Is there anything at this point that could erode Trump's support among the core supporters that are mostly everything that he has left or all that he has left? Better said. One of our sponsors is Little Spoon, your one stop shop for healthy, easy meals and snacks for your baby, toddler or big kid delivered right to your door with fresh, organic baby food for every stage, toddler and kids meals that even the picky eaters will love. And the new line of healthy smoothies. Little Spoon has you covered. Little Spoon makes everything fresh. It's just like homemade. It's ready in mere moments. All of the recipes are delicious. They're nutritionally balanced and

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Pacman dot com. Let's hear from the most important people in the audience. And those are the viewers and the listeners. We'll take some calls now from our discord at David Pakman dot com slash discord, starting with I hope I pronounced this correctly. Rahman from Minneapolis welcomed Welcome. Did I did I pronounce that OK? Yes, you did, David. How are you doing? I'm doing well. Good. A longtime viewer been watching your show since high school. Wow. Thank you. My question is, with everything that's been going on the last two years, do you believe the Republican Party is trying to reinstitute a 21st century version of Jim Crow?

Well, most of them don't even know what that is. So I would say not conscious. I don't think they're using Jim Crow as a model, but I do think that they are reacting with a lot of the same instincts, whereas they're increasingly frustrated that the law doesn't allow them to do certain things they want to do. They're trying to find ways around it to achieve essentially the same outcomes, if that makes sense. And that includes when it comes to immigration policy. This includes when it comes to educational policy. And, you know, this idea of get rid of the Department of Education, different things like that. The impact of a lot of those things would

be similar to the impact of some of the things in place during the Jim Crow era. So in that sense, I would say, yeah, to some degree. Yeah, because when you when you look back in the history books and you could see the parallels with people going against the LGBT community, going with the voter restriction, the anti-abortion laws. When you look at Illinois, what happened with Mary Miller and she she was she was saying this is a victory for white life. That that was coded language. I agree with you 100 percent, 100 percent. And really, all we can do is try to ensure that the people who want to do this stuff don't get into positions of power. Sadly, many of them are already in positions of

power. But at every opportunity to vote, let's try to prevent more of them from being voted in. OK, that was my only question. Thank you for taking my call, David. All right. Thank you, Rahman from Minneapolis. Very much appreciate the call. Let's go next to Lucas from Massachusetts. Lucas, welcome to the show. What's on your mind today? Hey, David. Hi. I'm ecstatic right now because I didn't get to ask my question last week. But here's my question, please. So a lot of people are optimistic about the war in Ukraine because of the Ukrainians advances. I'm not. And here's why. OK, I think that I worry that if the GOP takes back Congress, it will block Ukraine funding

and side with Putin. What do you think? I think they almost certainly will. Now, just as a heads up, you've got discord notifications blinging in the background. And that is a faux pas during the phone call. OK, so if you can get those turned off, that would be really great. I think you are absolutely correct. And when the if Republicans get the opportunity to stop the funding to Ukraine, they will do it under the

guise of we have to take care of America first. That's what they're saying. And of course, many people will look at it and say this is another way that you're playing soft with Putin. And they'll say it's not about playing soft with Putin. It's about we need to deal with crime and immigration and all these different things. And of course, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. But yeah, they will they will try to at least cut funding to Ukraine. And that's the type of explanation that they'll give. Speaker 1 All right. Thank you for answering my question. I've heard a lot of different perspectives on it. I'm glad to hear yours. Speaker 1

All right, Lucas, thank you very much. Speaker 2 Welcome. All right. There we go. Okay. Let's go next to Alan from Miami, Florida. Alan, welcome. Alan, you are on the air, but it looks like you have the wrong microphone selected. Welcome to the program. You can speak if you can get configured correctly.

And last chance for Alan from Miami, Florida, who is in tech hell, as we might call it. Welcome, Alan. Hello. Can you hear me now? I can hear you. How are you, David? I'm doing well. Good, good. So I had a question about EVs. I find EVs very interesting. I know you've talked about them in the past on several occasions. So now, as you probably know, the biggest issue with EVs from a cost standpoint is the most expensive part, right? Which is the battery, and more specifically, the materials sourced and used to manufacture these batteries, right?

And if you look at the trajectory of EV prices or EV vehicles, their prices, they have been going down, but the price of these of these batteries are still a big impediment. Right. Yes. So what do you think maybe the government can do? What kind of role do you think or positive role do you think the government can play in trying to resolve this issue or helping to resolve this issue? And the reason I ask is because, you know, a lot of people in the EV space will say that the biggest impediment for the middle class or, let's say, just regular folk being able to afford an EV is this issue, basically, is the cost of the materials to manufacture the batteries. So there's a couple of different things here. First of all, in terms of what the government

can do, that's not the most interesting question to me, because the government can do what it's done in other industries that it wants to support rebates, subsidies, preferential tax treatment. The government has its tools that it can use, and I'm fine with the government doing that. I think the problem you're pointing out is going to resolve itself with more electric vehicle demand. And as as adoption increases, I mean, listen, it's like when you look at computer processors. Right. And you look at I remember when we got from Radio Shack this 100 megahertz Pentium computer and it was like twenty five hundred dollars in whatever year that was, which is like a lot more money now. You know, it's probably five or six grand now. And now you get, you know, multi gigahertz processors for way less by some of the same laws that govern the reduced price of hard drive storage and the reduced cost of processing power,

I think you're going to see absolutely the same thing with with electric vehicle batteries. The other thing is communicating to people that because electric vehicles are so much more efficient than internal combustion engines on a per mile basis. It's also possible that while the upfront cost of an electric vehicle can be higher, although those costs are also coming down, the long term costs, because the electricity is cheaper than the gas and the efficiency is higher. So your cost per mile is lower. The total cost of ownership is going to be less. So I think it's a matter of we've got to communicate that that's already the case cost of ownership is going to be less. So I think it's a matter of we've got to communicate that that's already the case. The prices will continue to come down.

Battery recycling and reuse is going to be developed. All of these things are these are really engineering problems that are that are like what we saw in computing and in other spaces. It's all going to get resolved, is my view. OK, I see. Well, it seems to me that that as far as you mentioned, recycling, that's a huge thing that many companies are trying to push is to try to get these batteries to kind of get back into the lifecycle because they still have valuable use. But it seems – and I could be wrong here. Maybe you can correct me on this. But it seems like – I don't know if the government or federal government has any sort of program to recycle or incentivize recycling of these things because that I don't know. They may or they may not. Yeah. So that that could be an area maybe that sort of the government can can can address because so far right now it seems like

it's just startups that are coming out of nowhere that are trying to resolve that issue and the government isn't doing much. I would I would like the government to more incentivizing this technology development, but it's happening out and it's all happening. Speaker 4 Oh, thank you. Well, that's it. Speaker 1 Thank you for the call. Appreciate it. Alan from Miami, Florida. Quite a scene down there that I can tell you for sure. Let's go. Oh, just a reminder for everybody waiting in discord to chat with me. If your nickname is anything other than a name and a location, whether it's nicknames or single words or whatever the case may be, jokes, you're not going to get called on, which is fine if you're

just listening. But just so you know why you won't be getting called on. Let's go next to Moshe from Toronto, Canada. Welcome. David. Hello, David. Hello. Hello. So I was wondering, I don't know how invested you are in Canadian politics, but I was wondering if I could get your opinion on how well you think Justin Trudeau has been doing over the last while and your opinion about the the new conservative party leader, conservative party leader, Pierre Palliot, who just won the who just won the race for a conservative party leader.

You know, I think it wouldn't be appropriate for me to comment, not because I think it's inappropriate to comment on foreign leaders, but because there are just so many people who follow it much more closely than I do that I couldn't possibly give you a very informed take. I will say I recently when I was in Montreal, met with and chatted with MP Anthony Housefather, who likes what Trudeau is doing, but they're in the same party. Right. So he may have a dog in that fight, so to speak. But no, I don't I don't think I'm informed enough to really be saying, hey, listen to my opinion about Canadian

politics. Speaker 4 Yeah, well, they the MPs will always vote for the people in their party no matter what. Pretty much that's pretty much how it works there. Speaker 1 Tell me, I mean, how do you think things are day to day in Toronto? Speaker 4 Well, I mean, yeah, we're dealing with the cost of living being in a pretty terrible place right now. The government's working on getting dental care in place, which is interesting.

I guess the question, I wonder what you would think, is if now is the right time to start implementing these high- cost programs at this point where everyone is trying to like save money, reduce inflation. You know, you said a dental care program. Yeah. Yeah. They want to start and they want to start doing a federal program where you get coverage

from the government for for dental care, because up until now, it's it's that's completely been private and only only paid for by private insurance. Well, listen, again, without commenting specifically about what's going on in Canada, there are always people who will say this is the wrong time to do anything that involves spending money. But my view tends to be when it comes to things like health care, why would you wait? People the sooner people? People, the sooner people get care, the better off we are. Uh huh. Even if that means risking

like the money being like that money being spent elsewhere. Well, you'd have to then say, well, what else do you want to spend it on and compare? Oh, I would say not spend. Not spend it at all. As of as of this current moment. Yeah. OK. All right. Well, I'd like to see the numbers on it. But again, I'm not the best position to comment on that. OK. All right. Thank you for your time. All right. Thanks, Moshe from Toronto. Great to hear from you. Let's go. Let's go next to Brandon from North Carolina. Brandon, welcome to the program. Brandon from North Carolina, you are muting yourself right now. It's a self mute. As soon as you unmute yourself, you'll be able to hear me. Yes, I can. Hello, David. Nice to talk to you. Likewise. Let's go, Brandon. So, yeah, I just was wanting to ask you.

Whoa, Brandon, Brandon, wait a second. You're you're shot out of a cannon. Can you move the microphone a little bit further from your mouth? Or sorry. That's better. That's smoother. I like that. OK, OK. So you can hear me better. Yeah, much better. OK, so, yeah, I was willing to ask you, so what's your mind? Think about the whole Alvin Bragg not wanting to prosecute Trump on his finances. I have not read much about that is Alvin Bragg. Was that the New York D.A. that it led to two investigators quitting because they were like, this is going nowhere. Our work is pointless. Yeah, he's the Southern District. Ah, I see it here. Yeah. Listen, at the time when that

was that was news. It seemed to me that it was obvious that that was going on to some degree. We've been saying for a while, it seems that nobody wants to be the first to prosecute Trump and we'll see if federal charges end up being the first thing. Here's my view on it. If the facts say that a prosecution is correct, not prosecuting is a cop out and it's cowardly. Now that being said, that being said, we only want to bring charges against anyone, random people or a former president when the evidence supports it.

So it's not prosecute Trump because I think Trump's a terrible president. It's if that's what the evidence says should be done, it should be done. And not doing it is a real problem. Speaker 4 Yeah, absolutely. Speaker 1 All right. How are things otherwise in North Carolina? Speaker 4 Uh, uh, pretty good. Other than, uh, besides our words and infrastructure and stuff, pretty good. But, um, other than besides our roads and infrastructure and stuff. Pretty good. But other than that, pretty good.

Beasley's ahead in polls. So as long as we don't elect Bud. What's wrong with the roads? Is it like potholes or what? Yeah, potholes. Like our roads are pretty much just like crumbling. You can literally just see the wear on them. Like it's just you can just see the wear and tear on them.

It's pretty bad. That's horrible. That's horrible. All right, Brandon. Well, thank you for the call. Thank you very much. Take it easy, David. You too.

There's Brandon from North Carolina. Let's take a quick break and get right back to the callers. If you're holding on to talk to me, hold on just a moment longer because we're going right back to the phones. Speaker 1 I often have a very hectic schedule and I don't always have the time to plan the exact nutrition of all of my meals. But our sponsor, Athletic Greens, just makes it easy to make sure I'm getting the nutrients I want. I've been using it for almost a year now, and it's great. AG1 by Athletic Greens is a delicious plant based blend of 75 high quality

vitamins, minerals and probiotics from whole food sources. If I have just one small scoop of AG1 a I'm not doing that. I don't want to do that. Age you want is super tasty. You can put it in a smoothie. I drink it straight. I just like the veggie taste of it. Achieving good nutrition and feeling your best does not have to be complicated. You can make AG one part of your daily routine the way I have done. When you go to athletic greens dot com slash Pacman, you will get a one year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs. That's athletic greens dot com slash Pacman for a one year supply of vitamin D. The link is in the podcast notes. Let's speak to a few more people.

We take calls via discord on Fridays at David Pakman dot com slash discord. That's the place to do it. Let's go to Harry from Columbus, Ohio. Harry, what's going on there? Can you hear me well? I can hear you. Let's put it that way. OK, I'll be very brief. And I'm very excited for your new finance channel. I saw you drop your first video yesterday. We now have multiple, multiple videos on the finance channel. The audience is responding sort of mildly positively, which I think is as good as you can hope for on the Internet, you know?

Yeah, I agree. So I'll be real quick. OK, now I know very, very little about, you know, buying a house, securing my assets, anything like that. Yep. With the recent raises in interest rates from the Fed, does it make any sense to buy a house until those come down? Like I have no idea what calculations I need to make before.

Well, here's the general thing. Give me a tiny bit of advice. Yeah, that's it. Thank you so much. Here's the general thing, OK? As a general rule, and we have a clip coming out on the finance channel about this, when interest rates go up. Home prices come down, they tend to move in opposite directions. Now, it's not always literally true. Sometimes interest rates going up

might just mean home prices are steady instead of going down. But the idea is interest rates and prices move in opposite directions. And I explain why in a clip on the finance channel, which will be out very soon. So if you were in a position to buy a home cash, high interest rate environments can be good moments to do that. Now, of course, if you're selling and buying, often you're you're subject to the same the same market conditions that make buying attractive might make you have to sell your house for less. So it really depends on the market and your personal situation and whether you're only looking to buy or buying and selling. But the principle at play is in general, interest rates up, houses down. Speaker 4

Yeah, it seems like I'm going to have to make a pretty, you know, big finances, pretty big mortgage change to get into a house, so it doesn't seem like it's going to be the right time for me. I just want to if you have if you have a mortgage at two and a half percent right now and in the new place, you would need a mortgage at five percent. It may not be the right time for you. That's perfectly reasonable. Hello. OK, Thank you for the call. Very much appreciate it. Mortgage rates, complicated stuff, complicated stuff, which we absolutely will be dealing with on the finance channel.

Let's go to Rob from Massachusetts. Rob, welcome to the show. Speaker 5 Hi. Thank you. First time on. I have a really quick question. Sure. I have a right wing friend at work and he tends to like comment on YouTube

things I post. And the thing is, I've learned to think like he does. So there's like a little version of him in my head, like trying to be a right wing person. And I wonder if that happens to you, if you find it useful for arguments or if it's just like straight because, you know, that I think they bury themselves in the rain. No, that's real. It's really good if it's just like straining because, you know, that I think they better themselves in the morning. Speaker 1 No, that's real. It's really good and it's useful. And I would argue that it's actually quite healthy, which is OK. We see a headline gas prices down two months in a row. I think it's great to say, OK, how are how are Republicans going to react to this? Do they have a point?

If so, should I modify my view? If not, why is it that they're actually wrong? I mean, maybe gas prices is a bad example, but I think that that's actually very healthy. It's it's arguably a version of steel manning, which is rather than straw manning your political opponents, you steel man and say, what's the best case I can make for their view? And if I still think it's a bad case, it reinforces that I've come to the right conclusion. I think that's very healthy as long as it doesn't become like intrusive or pathological. Speaker 4 Right. Yeah, it wasn't the same. I received a little steel manning so that

I never thought about that. Thank you. Speaker 1 All right, Rob, thank you very much. That that last bit was a little garbled. I didn't understand that, but I did understand. Thank you. And I really do appreciate that. We're taking calls via discord. Just as a reminder to everybody waiting to chat with me, if you actually want the opportunity to talk, your nickname in the waiting lobby on discord needs to be your name and where you're calling from or where you're calling from and your name. A lot of people with nicknames are not going to get called on. OK, just as just as a heads up.

So everybody understands that. Let's go next to Tristan from Boston. Tristan, welcome. Hey, David, what's up? How are you? I'm feeling okay. Good. So my question would be, you remember a while back the detective work by that American Muckrakers pack is what ended up getting Madison Cawthorn. Fired.

Well, yeah, I mean, I don't know that Cawthorn lost only because of the salacious stuff released about him. I don't know, but I remember that I remember the American muckrakers pack and the stuff that they released. Certainly, yes. Do you think we'll hear from them again in actually succeeding in smearing someone enough to get them out of Congress? Speaker 1 So I don't remember if it was the same people who tried with Lauren Boebert and it didn't go

anywhere because it wasn't very well sourced or if that was a different organization. I just don't remember offhand, but it's sort of a question about a prediction. I a different organization. I just don't remember offhand. But it's sort of a question about a prediction. I have no idea. I don't know if they have dirt on someone else, but it's certainly conceivable that we would. The site fire Boebert is still up and I assume it will be up for as long as it takes for her to.

Leave Congress. Fair. All right. Well, we will keep an eye on it. Other than that, the, their site right now is just a bunch of criminal Republicans, not looking so caught in a not so hot poses. Fair. So I guess it's what the best we can hope for for now. All right, Tristan. Very good. We'll keep an eye on it. Cool. Thanks. All right. Tristan from Boston with a very important declaration. Let's go next to Philip from Germany. Philip, welcome.

Hello. Hello. Can you hear me well? So I can hear you. There is a static hiss in the background whenever you talk. Okay, I don't really know why. But my main question is that basically back in the times of the Civil War, the rules of the Democratic and Republican Party were kind of reversed, where the Democrats were the one with the slaves, and Abraham Lincoln was from the Republicans were freeing the slaves and so on. And nowadays, well, it's all kind of in reverse, especially when you have Confederate flags being waved at January 6th and all that. And you have an idea

how that reversal came to be? Yeah, there's actually been multiple reversals. And I think that, you know, this can be very confusing even to Americans. So my advice on this issue is to think about it in the following way. The right wing was in favor of owning slaves and the party name that was the correct name at the time is less relevant than the fact that it was the political right that wanted the slaves and the political, quite frankly, center and left and even to some degree center right that did not. And that makes it so you don't have to remember when the party realignments took place. Speaker 4 OK, but still kind of weird that the Republicans were center or perhaps even center

left. Not sure. We'll remember. Not all Republicans, Republicans, not all of Lincoln's Republicans wanted to end slavery. That's that's Lincoln did. But not the entire Republican Party did not want to. Also interesting, I guess. But yeah, it kind of happens to go that way that basically the Democrats were were hardline into slaves. And yeah, Lincoln's direction was, yeah, against this. Yeah, I would even want to double check that because I don't even know for sure that that that is the Democrats were into slaves. Let me double check because there were multiple parties at the time. But I'm going to let you go because that hissing is just so bad. OK. Oh, sorry. No problem. No problem. All right. Good. We'll get that figured out for next time.

But that is that is quite an audio element that was taking place there. Let's go next to Alex from California. Alex, welcome. Hey, David, can you hear me? Yes, I can. Hey, David. So have you covered the 60 second 60 minute interview from Joe Biden and about Taiwan? I covered the interview in terms of Biden saying that the pandemic is over. I did not cover the Taiwan piece. I was so busy early in the week that I didn't even watch the entire interview. I just did a story on the COVID part. OK, so I'm curious, because every time Joe Biden says something about Taiwan, like if China invades, we're going to send troops. But every time that happens, it always seems that the White House always backs peddling and say, oh, we don't know about that or oh, we don't stand by that. What do you think about that? I think it's typical posturing. It's you you you you say

something. The president says something a little hawkish. And then when there's a request for a clarification, you sort of walk back a little bit and say it's not our intent or it's not what was meant. I think that that is completely standard political posturing to sort of keep those that you consider your adversaries a little bit unbalanced, where it's not totally clear exactly what they're willing to do. It's like a minor version of when Putin talks about launching nukes. I think it's just typical posturing. It's politics. Right. So if let's say somehow or for some reason, China does invade Taiwan. Yes. Do you do you believe that America should step in with their like not just like what

sending funding to Taiwan, but like sending troops like American troops to like how about Taiwan? I am not ready at this point in time to say that the US should get involved militarily in defense of Taiwan against China. I believe that China would be wrong to invade Taiwan, of course, but I am very careful about declaring support for American military interventions. So right now, I can't tell you that I would support that. I would have to study the issue more. That's fair. But like, I feel like if, you know, China does invade Taiwan, I feel like that would set like a bad precedent if America doesn't do something because like you can't. Ukraine is doing well because we're sending a bunch of aid to their way. But in the case

of like China and Taiwan, I feel like this is like a really different situation. The scale is completely different and the circumstances are completely different. Listen, I agree. I think that military action would ideally happen in coalition. And I am not at this point ready to say that I would say, yes, the U.S. needs to get in there. One final thing. Do you believe that people are comparing the China-Taiwan situation to Russia and Ukraine and saying how Russia is doing poorly and how things are not going in Russia's favor during the war? And people believe that that might reflect or might be the situation if China invades Taiwan. I think that that is a totally different situation. I do not think it

is logical to extrapolate from how Ukraine is doing, how Taiwan would do. I don't think that that would be a fair assess, a fair assumption. OK 4 Okay, so that's all David for taking my call. Speaker 1 All right. Thank you, Alex from California. Very, very important declaration. Let's go to Grant from Iowa City, Iowa. Grant, welcome to the program. What's on your mind today?

Speaker 5 Hey, David, I saw your interview with Ben Dixon yesterday. It was really interesting. Thank you. Yeah, it's clear that the Christian nationalist movement is definitely growing or at least becoming more bold. Yes. And so I was just wondering, I don't know if you identify as agnostic or atheist, I'm not sure. So I don't know how much interaction personally you've had with um evangelical conservative christians but do you think um not the politicians but like just like general people in public um do you think they're motivated more by um a desire for power or are they motivated more by fear um personally in my experience i kind of grew up in that kind of you know realm and uh i think there's a there's

a great fear they have. I agree. Afraid of like God punishing them. So, yeah, I my my most extensive interactions with American evangelicals was when I went to Indiana because my girlfriend has family there and the my my girlfriend's Jewish, but is she has a part of her family that's evangelical Christians. And what I saw in speaking to them, a lot of fear and a lot of fear driven conspiratorial beliefs. And it did not feel to me like now I'm not talking about politicians. I'm talking about random people, which was your question. It did not feel like a thirst for power was their guiding light. It genuinely seemed like it was fear. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just interesting to me because I think

just in my own experience, like when I went to college and stuff and just had, you know, classes where we were looking at other groups in the world, I was like, oh, this is not that scary. And there's nothing to be afraid of. And like, I don't know, I was like, oh, this is not that scary. And there's nothing really to be afraid of. And like, I don't know, even just like I'm still a Christian, but like my view of like God has changed so much from what it used to be. Just like this, this angry God, he wanted to punish us anytime he could. So I don't know. I kind of think I've enjoyed talking with more conservative Christians and evangelicals

over the last few years because Cause I kind of like, uh, just get to know how they're feeling about stuff and offer different perspectives. And for some of them, it seems like, oh, okay. Um, they start to learn like it's, it's not as, you know, horrifying as, as, as it might be, I guess, to, um, yeah, that's really interesting to hear that you came to that conclusion. Cause one of the things that I've thought about is, you know, I guess, I guess I consider myself agnostic, although whenever I explain my views, people will write in and they'll say, David, you're actually an atheist, whatever. Call me whatever you want. But my view is I think it's completely possible that some kind of God or higher power exists. I've just not seen any evidence of it. But one of the things that I've

come to believe is contrary to much of this fire and brimstone stuff from the evangelical side, if there were such a higher power, it seems to me that if God created such complicated human beings, God would not be this black, white, vindictive arbiter that some Christianity makes him out to be. And it sounds sort of like you've come to the same idea. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, well, I can let you get some other people now. All right. But I just thank you so much. I appreciate the call. Yeah, thanks for taking my call. And in fact, what Grant from Iowa is letting me do is just end the segment because we are at the end of our time today. I always am just so broken up that I cannot get to everyone who's waiting to talk to me.

But that means that hopefully next week some people will call in. So I will speak to you then. We'll take a quick break and be back with more right after this. Thank you, David Pakman, for joining us today. and many other awesome membership perks, go to join Pacman dot com and use the coupon code better 21 for a huge discount. Join Pacman dot com. All right, let's get to the Friday mailbag where you can write to me and sometimes it'll appear on the show. You can email info at David Pacman dot com, ideally with a substantive commentary. But sometimes there is very little substance and that's OK. I want to start today with an email from a right winger, I think, who thinks they're

on to me. They think they know my trick. Take a look at this message. Andrew wrote to me and said, it's a nice trick. Good afternoon, sir. I noticed that you only discuss the dumbest or the dumb Republicans on your show. It's a nice trick. It's the same trick Tucker and Sean Hannity and Don Lemon and many others use. You will find no shortage of idiots on both sides of the aisle. And what you do is shine a light on just those people.

Do you ever plan on having a conversation with anyone that you can't tip the outcome in your favor? If your arguments are so good, you should be able to talk to anyone, not just the pillow guy and Jesse Lee Peterson or whatever his name is. I read the comments your audience writes, and I must say that the most ignorant that they the most ignorant and misinformed people in America. And what's scary is that these people think they are the smart ones. I don't even do this for a living. And I can pick apart every single one of your arguments or at least show where you are being a hypocrite. I honestly used to really like you. I know I like to hear solid arguments from both sides. But now I realize you are just a fraud.

I might as well call you Hannity Jr. It's the same playbook, bro. You know, we've so first of all, they never tell you who the smart conservatives are. Tell me exactly who they are, because like, oh, well, Ben Shapiro. I interviewed Ben Shapiro on the show. It didn't go great for him. It wasn't like terribly humiliating, but he didn't make a lot of sense. And then he's refused all subsequent invitations. I've had Michael Knowles on the show.

Some of these right wingers go. Knowles is the smart one. To the extent that Jordan Peterson is a right winger, people say, well, but Peterson's been on and he has an open invitation. We tried to get him back on recently. We had Andrew Sullivan on. He's a right winger and I find him to be intelligent. And then those aren't the right, smart right wingers or they're they're not really right wingers or what we we interview all sorts of people. OK, all sorts of people. This is a very boring criticism.

Let's go next to Earl. Now, I'm going to be totally honest with you. I don't know if this email from Earl is satire. Earl wrote in about raising the minimum wage and said, I am so disappointed to see encouragement from your people to raise the minimum wage to fifteen dollars an hour. This could destroy capitalism as we know it, forcing millions of businesses and CEOs out of work because people are too lazy to work and too stupid to budget. I am not an economist like Thomas Sowell, but I can do simple math. So let's start. Seven twenty five an hour is two ninety a week. That's fifteen thousand eighty dollars for the year.

Average health insurance is only one fifty a week. That's six hundred dollars a month. Average apartment rent for a one bedroom is only two seventy five a week. That's six hundred dollars a month. Average apartment rent for a one bedroom is only two seventy five a week. That's eleven hundred a month. Average food costs for one person is only fifty one dollars a week. Average transportation, sixty five a week. Utility bills, thirty five a week. So to survive, we don't need a fifteen dollar per hour minimum wage. All the person has to do is work two full time jobs and drive Uber in their spare time. I'm sure that's what Milton Friedman or Thomas Sowell would do. If this is satire, it's very well done.

If it's not, then it's kind of weird. But I think because I can't tell, I'll do it as a presented without comment. John wrote in. John says, Hi, David, huge fan of the show, was excited to find for you to find another right winger to interview this week with John T. Smithy. I think it was I think it was John Teague as a tool for your viewers to understand when confronted with the new IRS hiring goals. That 87000 number often thrown around is misleading.

This is really important because right wingers are loving this talking point of why does Joe Biden need 87000 more IRS agents? Well, John explains, first of all, it's based on a proposal from May 2021 and not actually relevant to the current plan. Number two, the IRS expects 55000 retirees in the next 10 years. These new agents would replace those folks. Three, the new hiring quota would be over 10 years, these new agents would replace those folks. Three, the new hiring quota would be over 10 years rather than immediately. You know, that does change the big picture of that IRS hiring, doesn't it? John writes, I'm a CPA who has had this discussion multiple times a week with clients. And I've got to tell you, they look really dumb when I turn this around on them. Well, John, I always appreciate more information.

And John does seem to know exactly what he's talking about. I'll keep that in mind when they pull the IRS talking points. Glorious Taco wrote in saying, shouldn't Abbott and DeSantis be arrested for those immigrant buses? David, in the past couple of months, Abbott and DeSantis have been sending busloads of illegal immigrants to various northeast Democratic run cities claiming that illegal immigration needs to be dealt with. Now, shouldn't these two be arrested for knowingly transporting illegal aliens across state lines, a federal crime? And what money is being used to fund these trips? If public funds, should that be another federal crime?

Yeah, we talked about this on Monday. NPR has a really good article about the possible illegality of the DeSantis migrant Martha's Vineyard stunt. I don't want to rehash everything I said. You can check out that clip. But GT, you are spot on in identifying there are a bunch of possible crimes there, a bunch of possible crimes. Anthony wrote in about Michael Cohen, Trump's former lawyer, and says, Hey, David, I'm not sure if you addressed this before, but I've been listening to the Michael Cohen podcast and I noticed a couple of times that he referenced you as the guy that goes to Trump rallies

and talks to Trump supporters. I don't think he has the right guy unless you've been out there in which I'm sorry I even addressed this. I thought maybe he was thinking of Jordan Klepper or some other mockery type journals. Yeah. So Michael Michael Cohen's a great guy. We're in touch and he's a supporter of the show. We're going to have him back on soon.

I like Michael Cohen. He sometimes refers to me as a comedian, which I'm glad to be called, although I'm about to show you an email that says I'm not funny, but to the extent that Michael Cohen finds me funny, I'm glad for him to call me a comedian. Michael Cohen has also said the guy that goes to Trump Trump rallies. And when Michael Cohen interviewed legal analyst Asha Rangappa, Asha also said, I'm the guy that goes to the Trump rallies. So we've sent people to Trump rallies.

We will also sometimes look at clips from Trump rallies. I don't know where it all came from. Your guess is as good as mine. But I know exactly what you're talking about. Humor. Here is someone who doesn't like my humor or says I'm not funny. Like the show a lot, Dave, but find your humor a bit lacking. Not a complaint at all, but the dim sum word with Boebert cracked me up. She's in my district as Peters in Mesa

County. Trial date for Peters that was just set is six months from now. No lack of loons around here. Very much appreciate your efforts, says Tom. You know. Does it make sense to say that my humor is lacking when it's not a comedy show? I don't I don't know. I mean, it's sort of like if you said I didn't like what's a really like hard boiled TV show, kind of dark. I don't know. There's there's actually a really good German time travel show called Dark, and it is a dark show. It would be weird to say now the humor is lacking. It's not a comedy series. So I just don't know about this. My humor is lacking. It's not really meant to be a comedy show. So I don't know. Let me know what you think about what

Tom has to say. Mike in New York City also wrote in. Mike said, David, I always found it hilarious that MAGA people think they're being clever by saying, let's go, Brandon, and that they think this bothers anyone on the left at all. I think Democrats should co-op. You mean co-opt should co-opt the phrase. Let's go, Brandon. They should start chanting it in support every time Biden does something good. Yeah, that would be funny. You know, a lot of times taking back the phrase is kind of silly in this case. I think it would be funny for the left to also start using. Let's go, Brandon, as a positive. One of the cringiest things is when these right wingers you can you see them and you can they think they're so smart and clever and incisive when they go, let's go, Brandon. And some of them email me

and they'll say, David, can you tell Brandon to pay attention to his teleprompter or whatever, you know, that type of thing. And they genuinely think they're being super clever. It's cringy. The entire let's go, Brandon thing is one of the cringiest out there. And the funniest part of it is how clever they think they are. They will never change. At least it doesn't seem like it anytime soon. Make sure you are signed up for our bonus show. Oh, my clip isn't even playing. That was weird. It like came out of the wrong speaker. Anyway, you know, Alex Jones doesn't like the bonus show. Just remember that to me, that's a great endorsement of the bonus show. Sign up at join Pacman dot com and get instant access to that very same bonus show.

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