The David Pakman Show - 9/24/24: The sane-washing continues, Trump supporters makes shocking admission

Episode Date: September 24, 2024

-- On the Show: -- Don Lemon, host of the Don Lemon Show and author of the new book "I Once Was Lost: My Search for God in America," joins David to discuss the book and his recent work. Get the book: https://amzn.to/4dlaPFF -- Kaylee McGhee humiliates herself in her latest attempt to sane-wash Donald Trump's incoherent rambling -- A support of Donald Trump's admits during an interview that "illegal immigration" is actually not hurting him at all -- A shocking Donald Trump rally in Indiana, Pennsylvania is so vile and dystopian that it shocks the world and has attendees heading for the exist less than halfway through the rally -- In Smithton, Pennsylvania, Donald Trump meets with farmers who support him and the entire thing is indistinguishable from a cult -- Donald Trump and the Republican Party pull support from North Carolina Republican gubernatorial candidate Mark Robinson after his "Black Nazi" scandal -- In an interview with Sharyl Attkisson, Donald Trump delivers a completely unintelligible explanation for how he would bring down prices -- Yet another voicemail caller asks David to defend communism despite David not being a communist -- On the Bonus Show: Republican rejects Trump's Nebraska scheme, Georgia election board orders hand count of all votes, Republicans defy Trump to avert US shutdown, much more... 🌱 Ounce of Hope: Get 20% off with code PAKMAN at https://ounceofhope.com 😁 Zippix Toothpicks: Code PAKMAN10 saves you 10% at https://zippixtoothpicks.com 🪒 Henson Shaving: Use code PAKMAN for FREE blades at https://hensonshaving.com/pakman ☕ Beam melatonin hot cocoa: Use code PAKMAN for up to 40% OFF at https://shopbeam.com/pakman 🔊 Babbel language learning: Get up to 60% OFF at https://babbel.com/pakman 💪 Alpha Progression: Get 20% OFF your 1st year or month at https://alphaprogression.com/pakman -- Become a Member: https://www.davidpakman.com/membership -- Become a Patron: https://www.patreon.com/davidpakmanshow -- TDPS Subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow -- Pakman Discord: https://www.davidpakman.com/discord -- David on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow -- Leave a Voicemail: (219)-2DAVIDP

All right, let's start today with the fun little media literacy examination. You know, one of the things that I believe and I hope distinguishes me from whoever else is out there giving you their opinion is that I tell you up front, I do not believe that I am the ultimate source of truth. I do not believe that my interpretation of world events or news clips or statements made by elected officials is the singular and only way to interpret these. Sometimes I'm corrected by the audience convincingly and I will revise my view or tell you I had an incomplete picture or just whiffed it or whatever the case may be.

One of the real concerning trends that we've seen from the world of MAGA, and this includes both Trump himself, Trump staffers, the people around him, the communications people around him, and even just right wing journalists and pundits and commentators is that they want you to believe and sometimes explicitly say they are the ultimate source of truth. They are the ones who can tell you how you should interpret what you are hearing and seeing. Sometimes it's very overt. For example, you might remember Donald Trump back when he was president, who even remembers what the topic was. But Trump said, you cannot believe

what you are hearing and seeing. He will tell us what is going on, telling whoever is willing to listen that he's the ultimate source of truth. Now, one of the ways that this has manifested over the last six months as Donald Trump continues to be increasingly incoherent and authoritarian is what we have increasingly decided to call sane washing, which is that people around Trump, be they journalists, commentators, staffers or advisers, or even J.D. Vance in some cases, will have to come around with the proverbial pooper scooper to clean up the mess left by Trump.

And sometimes cleaning up that mess means simply telling you he's not out of his mind. What you just heard is perfectly sane and it makes perfect sense. And I have an example of that with a completely straight face. The deputy editor of The D.C. Examiner, Kayleigh McGee, says that when Donald Trump gives these completely incoherent rambling answers about how tariffs work or how he will bring down prices, that he is being straight and direct. And I want you to correct me if I'm wrong. She said this on the Fox and Friends weekend show. I think you can actually hear some of the hosts kind of snickering, like what the hell is she talking about? This is the prototypical example of saying washing where Kayleigh McGee wants

to be the ultimate source of truth on interpreting Trump. Listen to this, which is we are an optimistic people. Oh, boy. Just going to do this for you before we start. I live in a glass house on that one. Here to help us translate Washington Examiner Deputy Editor Kaylee McGee-White. What do you make of this town hall? I mean, obviously this did not help her. No, and I don't know if I'm going to be much help translating. I'm Gen Z, so I have about a 15 second attention span. So I lost her at about patriotism or whatever she was trying to say. However, I'm glad that we didn't hear about her lawn this time.

So that is a bit of an improvement. But, you know, this is more rambling word salad from Kamala Harris. And you compare this answer to an answer that Donald Trump gave back at a campaign rally in my home state of Michigan last week. Both of these candidates were asked very directly about their economic plan. His answer was so straight and direct. He said that he's going to increase energy, lower interest rates, and bring back common sense. And then you compare that to what Kamala Harris just said, and it's very clear why she's dropping in a lot of these swing states,

because she is incapable, apparently, of giving straight answers on policy questions. Straight and direct is Donald Trump when he's asked, how will you bring down prices? How will you make groceries more affordable? How will you make child care more affordable? Well, let's examine whether what Kayleigh McGee or I guess now she goes by Kayleigh McGee White, what she's saying about Donald Trump's answers. Here is an example of clear and direct Trump clearly and directly explaining how he will make child care more affordable.

This was just a little over a week ago. You tell me whether her characterization of Trump's explanations on economics are straight and direct or even intelligible. Speaker 4 If you win in November, can you commit to prioritizing legislation to make child care affordable? And if so, what specific piece of legislation will you advance? Speaker 1 OK, so this is a clear and direct question, like Kayleigh McGee White said. It's there's a it's a very specific question. Let's see how he answers it. Well, I would do that. And we're sitting down. You know, I was somebody we had Senator Marco

Rubio and my daughter Ivanka was so impactful on that issue. It's a very important issue. But I think when you talk about the kind of numbers that I'm talking about, that because child care is child care. It's couldn't, you know, there's something you have to have it. In this country, you have to have it. Right. But when you talk about those numbers compared to the kind of numbers that I'm talking about by taxing foreign nations at levels that

they're not used to, but they'll get used to it very quickly. And it's not going to stop them from doing business with us, but they'll have a very substantial tax when they send product into our country. Those numbers are so much bigger than any numbers that we're talking about, including child care, that it's going to take care. We're going to have, I look forward to having no deficits within a fairly short period of time, coupled with the reductions that I told you about on waste and fraud and all of the other things that it goes on for an additional minute. But you have to be able to decide, is Kayleigh McGee White correct when she calls these answers straight and direct?

Or am I right when I call these answers riddled with non sequiturs and completely incoherent? I don't believe factually there's anything in there explaining how he will bring down the cost of child care. Kayleigh McGee White wants to sane wash this answer so that you come away going, wow, how straight and direct Donald Trump was there. Here's another example. This is a clip from the Michigan town hall that Kayleigh McGee is praising. This is the one where Trump sat down with Sarah Huckabee Sanders.

And here is Trump confusing Alaska with Afghanistan. You tell me whether this is straight and direct. We're energy independent. We were soon going to be energy dominant and we would have been now having so much money coming out of the energy. We just have the best. We have Bagram in Alaska. They say it might be as big, might be bigger than all of Saudi Arabia. I got it approved. Ronald Reagan couldn't do it. Nobody could do it. I got it done. Right. Ronald Reagan was not able to get Bagram Air Force Base built in Alaska. He wasn't able to do it. Now, of course, Donald Trump is talking about Anwar, A-N-W-R. He's confused, is disoriented, but it is not exactly straight and direct. So listen, you should fact check me. You should go back to the sources. You should see whether

I'm giving you an honest characterization of what's going on. So go back and look at these. Watch the entire 90 minute town hall or however long it was. And you determine whether Trump's being straight and direct or dissembling and incoherent. And then based on that, you can decide, is this somebody that I want to vote for? But this new sane washing, blatant, nakedly political sane washing that they send the MAGA people around with the proverbial pooper scoopers to clean up Trump's messes. I don't think it's going to work on you. It may work on some of the people we see at the Trump Trump rallies, but I just don't believe most voters are going to be so easily tricked. Speaking of easily tricked voters, a Trump voter made a stunning admission outside a vile Trump rally. This is super interesting because it's a reminder that

at their core, even the Trump voters realize that the narratives being given to them by the orange one really don't correlate in any serious way with reality. Newsmax outside Trump's Indiana, Pennsylvania rally. That's not a mistake. It's a town called Indiana inside of the state called Pennsylvania. True story. Not a joke. A gentleman and I use that term loosely was asked, what's your most important issue? Take a listen to what he says and listen to the follow.

So what's the most important issue for you as a Pennsylvania voter? The illegal immigration into this country. How is it hurting you and folks, you know, it's not. It's just the principle of the fact that they, you know, everybody comes in here and gets free stuff and taking stuff away from hardworking Americans. And we got to put America first again. Absolutely. We've heard that all around the country. Thank you very much. Did you see that little slip of the hand that happened there? What's the most important issue? Well, illegal immigration. Oh, and how is it hurting you?

It's not. It's just the principle of it. A principle which when we examine it is based on false beliefs, distortions and straight up disinformation. Well, it's a perceived threat. OK, fine. It doesn't apply to me, but it must apply to someone else. They are taking jobs, not mine, someone else's, except in all the cases where we say, actually, they're not really taking jobs. And the presence

of of immigrants, including undocumented immigrants, is economically stimulative. I wonder if this guy would actually be reachable with some of the facts. I mean, if we sat this guy down who at least has the wherewithal and the honesty to admit it's actually not affecting me in any way. Undocumented immigrants aren't affecting me. It's a principle, but I'm not harmed in any way by undocumented immigrants. Undocumented immigrants aren't affecting me. It's a principle, but I'm not harmed in any way by undocumented immigrants. Undocumented immigrants don't qualify in many cases for public benefits that they contribute to. So it's not just they're not hurting me. They're actually helping you. You have programs that undocumented immigrants pay into out of which they will never get benefits. They're just bolstering the trust fund or the cash on hand for people like this guy.

In many cases, well, it's dangerous because they commit crimes against not me, but other people. Well, immigrants, including undocumented immigrants, are less likely to commit crimes than native born citizens. So even this Trump super fan who's at the rally, he's mad. Yes, he's really upset about the illegal immigration, but he's admitting it doesn't hurt or impact him or affect him in any way. It's the principle. So maybe this guy's reachable with facts. I don't know. But the big takeaway here is that a lot of what these people say is important. They believe is important only because of what they've been

told and have uncritically accepted. And so this is very similar to the same washing story we did at the top of the show. To a great degree, they are being told what they are supposed to believe. And it's either out of an unquestioning loyalty or of a cult like sort of scenario or sometimes out of ignorance, admittedly, or group think there's a bunch of different explanations, but they end up accepting the version of reality that Trump or Trump spokespeople or Kayleigh McGee White or whoever gives them, even though buried deeply somewhere in there is the realization that this gentleman has, which is actually illegal immigration isn't affecting me in any way. Well, all right. Somewhere in there is the realization that this gentleman has, which is actually illegal immigration isn't affecting me in any way.

Well, all right. Once we've established that, let's talk about the principle that makes it your number one concern. And maybe after a few minutes, it won't even be that as you realize what's actually going on. Just a thought. Very, very interesting to see. Make sure you're subscribed to the YouTube channel as we approach

three million YouTube subscribers. You know, when I started this channel at age five, I never imagined we would be on the precipice of three million YouTube subscribers. But we are. And you can help get us one closer. And also remember to preorder my forthcoming nonfiction book, The Echo Machine, now available for preorder everywhere. Books, e-books and audio books are sold. We passed eighteen hundred preorders earlier this week and are now speaking of on the precipice. We are closing in on 2000, which will be a great milestone. So grab the book in whatever format is convenient to you. We're going to take a break and then the show will continue just weeks left until the presidential election. Looking for a way to enjoy some calm,

check out our longtime sponsor, Ounce of Hope, offering top shelf psychoactive THC products Thank you, David. helps the local community. The surplus fertilizer supports schools, gardens, small farms in the area. One of their first standout offerings is a jar of delicious honey infused with a thousand milligrams of THC. This raw, unfiltered honey is locally sourced, perfect for adding a calming touch to your day, whether you mix it into your tea, coffee, spread it on toast or use it in a recipe. This honey brings natural sweetness and relaxation. They have THC brownies, chocolates, caramels, gummies, beverages, soft gels, oils and topicals. They also have CBD options. All of these products are federally legal. No medical card needed. And you can get it fast with two day FedEx shipping. Since they grow all of their cannabis in house, you can trust every product is safe, effective and made with

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try out their B12 toothpicks with caffeine instead. A quick and easy alternative to coffee. the David Pakman Show David Pakman dot com. That's ZIPPIXtoothpicks.com. Use promo code Pacman 10 at checkout for 10 percent off. That's Pacman 1 0. The info is in the podcast notes. As an audience supported program, the David Pakman show does depend on people like you who listen to the podcast or watch a YouTube clip, a tic tac or whatever the case may be to go to join Pacman dot com and get a membership. The memberships are inexpensive. They come with great perks and great strength and are very easy to sign up for with just average technical skills. I invite you to join Pacman dot com where you can use the coupon code Mute Trump, M-U-T-E Trump, Mute Trump to save about 50 percent off of the cost of a membership.

And you will get so many great perks, including the daily bonus show, the bonus show where you want to make money. Everybody else that makes money to fund themselves is bad. Sure. We'll make a little money on the bonus show, which Alex Jones really, really doesn't like. And you can sign up at join Pacman dot com. Crowds fleeing Donald Trump's latest rally in Indiana, Pennsylvania, shocking the world with dystopian authoritarian promises and wet dreams from the failed former orange president. This was a very scary one. Not only was Donald Trump soaking wet from flop sweat, not only was he gripping the lectern like he was on a sheer cliff about to plunge to his plunge to his death. Not only was his right eye almost completely swollen shut.

But Donald Trump espoused dangerous, un-American authoritarian rhetoric, including suggesting that Americans who criticize the Supreme Court for ending Roe v. Wade should be thrown in prison. This is not the United States of America. They were very brave. The Supreme Court, very brave. And they take a lot of hits because of it. It should be illegal. What happens?

You know, you have these guys like playing the ref, like the great Bobby Knight. These people should be put in jail the way they talk about our judges and our justices. These people should be put in jail for how they talk about our judges and justices. Well, I think that happens in North Korea. I think that that happens in many of the countries that usually we say that is not the way we organize our system of government. But that's not supposed to happen in the United States. In Putin's Russia. Sure, you could end up in prison because of what you say about a judge. But this is an un-American dystopian horror or horror, as Trump likes to call it. Trump then criticizes early voting and suggests it's rigged. Trump regularly votes early and by mail vote. You can start right

away. You know that right now we have this stupid stuff where you can vote 45 days early. I wonder what the hell happens during that 45. Let's move the CDs votes. We've got about a million votes in it. Let's move them. We're fixing the air conditioner in the room. Right now, it's terrible. What happened the last time was disgraceful, including right here. But we're not going to let it happen again to, you know, too big to rig. Right.

That's one way you do it. And of course, despite saying early voting and vote by mail are rigged, Donald Trump habitually votes early and votes by mail. Some glitchy moments. Here was a real glitchy McGlitch Berg from Donald Trump starting on day one. I will seal the border and stop the migrants. We're going to stop the migrant invasion. We still have not gotten a good diagnosis of what that shoulder thing is, the spasm. And then

shortly after this moment, Trump reminding the crowd that on cognitive, there's no one stronger than him and the crowd really liking it and cheering. I almost said to say the Pennsylvania, but I said I meant the Commonwealth. I never said the state. I was able to catch it because I'm cognitively very strong. No one is stronger on cognitive than I am. Now, here was a funny moment when Trump just accidentally glanced across a little bit of policy. Trump says he will restore the SALT deduction if you elect him president. What's

interesting about that is it's Donald Trump's own tax reform from 2017 that eliminated the SALT deduction. Now he's running on restoring it. Why not just not get rid of it in the first place? And for all the suburban households paying high property taxes here in Pennsylvania, I will restore the salt deduction. Do you know what that is? Salt deduction. You will to save you thousands of dollars. Maybe I shouldn't bother with it. That's a good one. But you guys don't know what't bother with that. That's a good one. But you guys don't know what the hell it is. That's a good one.

Now it is weird to run on reversing your own tax reform plan. But at the same time, this is Donald Trump. But really, really bizarre. Now, by this point, people are leaving. Haley Dougherty, a staff writer for Trib Live Dotcom, reported on Twitter that, quote, people have started to leave after about 45 minutes of the former president speaking. This is now part of every rally. Trump spoke close to 100 minutes, so less than halfway through, maybe even more than

100 minutes last night, less than halfway through, people were heading for the exits. And then the real dystopian and apocalyptic prediction started. Trump again dropping the claim that if he does not become president, we may never have another election in the United States. The most important day and the most important vote in the history of our country because we're losing our country. I mean, somebody I heard the other day, pretty smart person. And you think about it and it could be true. They said, if we don't win this election, there may never be another election in this country could happen. Now, remember that this is a very similar promise to the one that Donald Trump made in 2020, which thankfully did not come true.

But the takeaway seems to be that these sort of apocalyptic visions, as compared to the positive vision that that Joe Biden used in his 2020 campaign and hopefully as compared to the positive vision that Kamala Harris and Tim Walz are using in this campaign, the apocalyptic dystopian predictions from Trump don't really seem very effective at winning him elections. Now, Trump made a very specific claim about fentanyl or fentanyl, as he often calls it, which is that prescription drugs are being laced with fentanyl. And when you hear that, how many families do you know where their child had

a dose of fentanyl? Not even in many cases because they were into drugs. They have a they take another drug and it has it's laced with fentanyl, not even what you would call a bad drug. They take a medication prescribed by a doctor. It's got fentanyl and they die right in front of the parents. Yeah, that isn't happening. It's just I found no evidence of that whatsoever. It is true that fake prescription pills have been sometimes found to have fentanyl in them, fake prescription pills. But I was not able to find evidence that legitimate prescriptions filled at a licensed pharmacy are inadvertently being delivered to patients with fentanyl. Now, Trump also addressed the topic of polling, and Trump now says the polls that have him losing are fake. What's interesting is that before Biden

got out and those very same polls said Trump was winning, that was the proof that he was winning. The previous proof he was he was winning is now evidence of fake rigging. When they say we're three points up or four, there's no way it's got to be a hell of a lot more than that. You know, polls are fake also, just like these people, the fake news. There you go. And in the midst of continuing to weaponize his supporters against the media, Trump points

to the polls as rigged that three months ago he pointed to to say, I'm winning. And this is why Joe Biden is running scared. And finally, a disgusting moment. Trump refers to Springfield, Ohio, and the Haitian immigrants. And the crowd starts chanting, send them back, even though they have legal status with left wing nonprofits to inundate Pennsylvania communities, changing the character of small towns and villages all over our country

and changing them forever. They will never be the same. They will never be. Do you think Springfield will ever be the same? I don't think the fact is, and I'll say it now, you have to get them the hell out. You have to get them out. I'm sorry. You get them out.

Can't have it. Can't have it. They've destroyed it. So there is the chant of send them back. And of course, they have legal status in the United States, truly beyond appalling. These are individuals who are legally in Springfield, Ohio. By all accounts, they've improved the city. Most residents want them there. And most residents recognize that these are good families who are here working. Why would we send them back to a horrible, horrible situation and possible death, by the way, in Haiti? But send them back as the chant the world horrified by what we saw last night

in Indiana, Pennsylvania. I want to play a couple of clips from a cult propaganda event supposedly involving farmers. Trump before his harebrained rally in Indiana, Pennsylvania, did a meet and greet with Smith in Pennsylvania farmers. Here is a woman talking about praying for Trump with her daughter. And if these aren't cult members, what is a cult at the end of the day? Can you tell the story of your daughter? Yes.

I'm sorry. The last thing I wanted to say is my hardest job is not running three businesses. It's actually being a mom to a daughter that's here with me today, Caroline Ray. She's 16 years old. I'm right there. Would you just raise your hand, honey, so that Mr. President can see? She is right there. She is not in school today, and she asked that she could be here and she could see you.

I'm doing everything that I can to try to give her the truth every day. And I just wanted to say, and I told you that eight years ago when you were running and she was just eight years old then, every night she would go to bed and I would kneel on the floor next to her bed and we would pray every single night for you. And every night she would speak out to God and she would say, dear God, please let Mr. Trump win, please. And the night of the election, of course, she had to go to win, please. And the night of the election, of course, she had to go to bed early because she was in school. But at two o'clock in the morning, when we finally knew that you had won, I went into her bedroom. I scooped her up out of her

sound sleep and I was literally tears pouring down. And I said, baby, Mr. Trump won, baby. He won. He won. And she said, thank you, God. Thank you, God. And so she is here with us today. And I just want to let you know that we are. Speaker 1 What a story, huh? What a story. Forget for a moment the obviously cultish nature of this story that the woman is telling. She had tears in her eyes. We finally found someone who did cry. It's wild that Trump is the furthest thing from a Christian that you can be. And yet this woman is acting like we must pray for him. He needs us.

Trump is the furthest thing from someone actually concerned with the day to day lives of average people. And yet they're out there praying for him and donating money and whatever the case may be. Really scary stuff. And an important reminder as to how you're not going to talk that woman out of voting for Trump with some prodding questions about the economy and what he's done for her. It is a cult. They are sucked in. They have been

completely brainwashed to give you a sense of the energy in the room. Listen to this absolutely electric moment. Dairy margin is the margin that we have in order to make a living and profit is extremely tight. Our input costs are up. There you go. So just absolutely electric atmosphere at this event. Trump, apropos of nothing, threatened John Deere with 200 percent tariffs. This guy has no idea what he's doing. Speaker 5 I just noticed behind me John Deere tractors. I know a lot about John Deere. I love the company. But as you know, they've announced a few days ago that they're going to move a lot of their manufacturing business to Mexico. I'm just notifying John Deere right now. If you do that, we're putting a 200 percent tariff on everything that you want to sell into the United States.

So that if I win, John Deere is going to be paying a 200 percent. They haven't started it yet. Maybe they haven't even made the final decision yet. But I think they have. John Deere is going to and anybody else that does this because it's hurting our farmers, it's hurting our manufacturing. And if you do that, you're going to have a 200 percent tariff put on the product that you make in Mexico right across the border. They think they're going to.

Now, this is a. So first of all, everything is about putting Trump in a position to reward companies that are cozying up to him and punishing companies that he doesn't like or he's angry with. By the way, this would be very stupid, putting a 200 percent tariff on an American company that's moving some production to Mexico, but then only putting a tariff on Chinese manufacturers of 10 to 20 percent, which Trump wants to do, which will still make those Chinese products cheaper in the United States than those made by an American company, but will still cause inflation like it's all completely backwards.

It's completely backwards. And to their credit, a reporter actually did ask Trump at this thing about the reports from economists that if Trump does his tariffs, prices will go up and there will be inflation. And Trump spends 10 minutes talking about nonsense. I'm not going to play the 10 minutes, but just listen to how it was. This about your tariffs and they say they don't see how it will not make matters possible or in the United States, they'll they'll approve it. They'll approve. And number one, I don't need them. I don't need United States? They'll approve it. They'll approve. And number

one, I don't need them. I don't need Congress, but they'll approve it. I'll have the right to impose them myself if they don't. I'd rather get their support. The ones that understand business all support it. I think David would be a very big supporter of the tariffs because you understand what's happening, right? David's a great business person, led a great company. No, the ones that understand business, they understand. You know, I'll give you an example. China will charge us. And it's not only China. I hate to keep using China because it's it's everyone. The European Union is a disaster, a disaster for you also. By the way, they don't want your farm product. They don't want our cars. They don't want anything. And yet they sell tremendous amounts of Mercedes Benz.

All right. So he spends 10 minutes straight just talking about this nonsense. And then finally, a reporter does ask Trump, how will you protect critical infrastructure from the Chinese Communist Party? Here's Trump's ironclad plan. Well, we're going to protect it by saying you can't come. We can't do it. We don't want you buying our land. Sounds like sounds like a pretty ironclad plan there.

So as usual, an event nominally to meet with workers and just average people is turned into Trump rambling about policies he doesn't understand with the occasional supplication of cult members at the altar of Trump. If this is how he's going to win the election, maybe the guy deserves to win because it's so transparently pathetic. There are two big problems with the cheap plastic disposable razors. Two thirds of people have skin irritation and then over two billion plastic razors enter our landfills in the United States alone. Now, our sponsor, Henson Shaving, solves both problems with the plastic disposable razors.

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It's great to welcome back to the program today. Don Lemon, host of The Don Lemon Show and also author of the new book, I Once Was Lost, My Search for God in America. You know, Don, my audience knows I am not a particularly religious guy. You know, I say I'm culturally Jewish, I'm culinary, Jewish, etc. But I have a real respect for the evolutionary value of religion at different times in the history of Homo sapiens. And I still think, especially having visited lots of rural and more conservative parts of the country, that it's not this objectively negative thing that the left

should reject and say this is necessarily a problem for our politics. I know lots of progressive Christians, et cetera. I'm kind of curious where you are now in seeing the last however many years of Christianity to a degree being weaponized by the right wing and how that fits kind of into your beliefs. Well, that's really why I wrote the book. One of the main reasons is because I saw how religion, especially evangelicals, right, how it was they were injecting that they've been injecting religion into our politics. And I thought that that was pushing us further away from God and further away from democracy, because as you know, David, we're supposed to have a separation of church and state. And so I am a faithful person. Part of the thing that sparked me writing this book was a crisis of faith that I had that we can talk about, but I don't push my religious beliefs onto anyone else. And I don't wear my religion on my sleeve like many people do, a sort of virtue signaling about how I feel and what you should be doing and judging people based upon my religious

beliefs. Number one, it's no one else's business but my own. And number two, isn't that why we left England is to have, you know, freedom of religion and whether we wanted to believe or not believe. Yeah, I want to hear about the crisis. And just as a sort of anecdote, I have friends who are progressive Christians and they don't really talk to me about their religion, but I know that to them it's important. And there are some sometimes they will say to me things like, you know, we've experienced miracles and we know that that is that was God acting. I'm searching for the right language to even explain these things that we know that that was God's action and we've

experienced miracles. And there are some, I think, on the progressive left who would say that's too kooky and like we don't want that in our movement at all. But when I look at a lot of these progressive Christians, they support a woman's right to bodily autonomy. They agree with me when it comes to social issues. They agree with me on economic issues. It seems a mistake to reject that piece of the electorate when they do seem to be allied electorally, if that makes sense. Yeah, of course. And look, there are extremes and people can have their own beliefs, right?

If you want to believe in miracles and that is your thing, but don't force me to believe in miracles just because you do. And so, look, I always say that I am faithful, David, but I'm not like a churchy person. I had enough of church as a kid because I was raised Baptist. So on Sundays, I'd have to go to the service in the morning, the service in the evening, and sometimes Bible study in between. And then I went to a Catholic school. So then there was catechism, and I had to go to mass on Fridays, whatever. So again, I'm not pushing my religious beliefs. The book is, it was, it's supposed to be a coda to my previous book that I had, This is the Fire, when I talked about racism and George Floyd and what was happening during the

pandemic. And so this is just to, I want people to be aware, I wanted people to be aware of just how dangerous it is with these toxic evangelical teachings and how they're, again, infecting our politics. And not only trying to they're not only trying to blur the line right between church and state, they're trying to erase the line between church and state and basically push us into a theocracy. And that's not what America is all about. The book is actually probably more political than it is religious. I just take religious teachings, toxic evangelical teachings to try to show people the hypocrisy of pushing America towards a theocracy. That's it. There are a lot of different views as to why the United States is becoming less religious over time. You have your as science knows more, there's less need for religion perspective.

There's the there are so many different things with which to fill our time that church gets pushed out sort of perspective. There's the it was because prayer was banned in schools that kids aren't getting into religion to begin with. Although I kind of question that one. What's your view as to the decline in religiosity in the United States? I talk about that in the book a lot. And I think, again, it's because of the hypocrisy. It's because people use religious teachings on doctrines. And I'm talking about Christianity here because I'm a Christian and someone of a different faith may have a, you know, feel differently about it. Yeah. But I think someone of a different faith needs to read this book. And I think especially Christians need to read this

book because then they'll realize like, you know, what if they were trying, my home state of Louisiana, they're trying to put the 10 commandments in schools. Now, what if someone did that, you know, as it relates to Islam, right, or to Judaism? Would they feel the same way about it? And so I think that people are being turned off by religion because they see the hypocrisy and they see that the control that especially evangelicals are trying to have over society by pushing, forcing their religious beliefs onto people, even people who are atheists, people who don't believe in religion, or people who believe in other, you know, have other faiths, and they're trying to push that. But just trying

to push it into our politics, we should not be establishing laws, David, in America based on religious beliefs or religious doctrines of any, you know, religious background. And I think people see that, and it's pushing them. As I said, this push towards theocracy is pushing us away from God. If you believe in God and it's pushing us away from democracy. There was a period of time during the 2016 Republican primary where evangelical Christians seem to correctly identify that they didn't have much in common with Donald Trump. And many of them were initially supporting Ted Cruz and some other candidates.

But ultimately, evangelical Christians in 2016 and also in 2020 did choose Trump over the Democratic candidates, Hillary Clinton in 2016 and Joe Biden in 2020. What ultimately explains that, given what seems to be such an inconsistency in beliefs? I'm glad you asked that question. Power, rationalization. Remember, Donald Trump is he's we're not electing a pastor in chief or whatever they say. We're electing a president. Donald Trump, God uses, you know, people, imperfect people and all that. It is the interpretation of doctrine the way that you want to interpret it. If you look at that, this is the same sort of people who use those same doctrines in the Bible and the same

rationalizations to subjectify women, right? Or subjugate women, excuse me, or to enslave African-Americans or to marginalize members of the LGBTQ community. It's all in the interpretation of the religious doctrine, which leads me back to your previous question. Why are we seeing this decline in religious belief? It's because of that. It's because people see the hypocrisy and sort of the ridiculousness of it when you use it just because you want to have influence. So you say, well, I'm going to interpret this sort of this way. I'm going to look at it this way. So it's whatever it is that you can do to get people to believe and to be on your side. You'll do it.

And that's the ridiculousness of it. What was what did Bill Maher call it? Religiosity. Yeah, that's ridiculous. It seems that there's an analogy to be made. I don't know if you remember. Honestly, I think it's been said by many people, but there's this idea that the Democratic Party has sort of like re enslaved black Americans by assuming their votes or something along

those lines. You know, this idea that that's kind of floating plantation back on the plantation. Yeah. It seems that if you want to talk about that, there's been sort of an effective version of that with evangelical Christians and the Republican Party in the sense that some assumed dislike of Democratic candidates has to be a factor to a degree where voters end up saying, hey, you know what? Even though Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden are probably way closer to my actual religious beliefs than Donald Trump, I'm not voting for them.

They're Democrats. I'm voting for the Republican. It seems there's a version of that happening. Well, that's when you make politics a religion, just like we've made in America guns a religion. Right. So that's for folks who have made politics a religion. And those are excuses, really. Like it's the same excuse. I think that's an excuse like now when people say I'm undecided. Oh, yeah. For me, undecided means like I want to find a reason to vote for Donald Trump. Right. That's what undecided is.

And I'm waiting for him or Kamala Harris or someone to give me an excuse to vote for Donald Trump. So it's the same thing. I need a reason not to support Democrats. By the way, if you believe in Jesus and just about every other religious deity or religious figure from ages ago, they're all progressives. They would all be Democrats in this time. They would all be trying to help immigrants, help the poor, get health care to people. All of these things that people deem to be progressive issues are really it seemed to be religious issues. So for me, all of that is an excuse for me to be selfish, to say that I, you know, I don't I want to have a tax break because I have a lot of money. I want to be able to control what women do with their bodies. All of that seems to be an excuse for for them to just be bigots and to be super partisan and super to the

right. That's what that means to me. I want to talk a little bit about the state of the presidential race. We are now five and a half, six weeks out, something like that. We were talking before the interview a little bit about the confusing signal in some of the polling. I've told my audience, listen, here's one story where things look very good for Kamala Harris. And that story is that the national polling she now is leading by more than two. It's approaching two point five. We could even get closer to three. The momentum, the fundraising, the crosstabs with Asian voters, women voters. OK, that's all looking very good for her. On the other hand, if we just go state by state right now, it seems Trump is leading in Arizona, which he lost in 2020. It seems Trump is leading in Georgia, which he lost in 2020.

And depending on where you look, he may even be leading in Pennsylvania. That's a very different picture. If you put it all together, it kind of seems like a two point popular vote vote win for Kamala Harris, with Trump still eking out 270 in the Electoral College is certainly plausible. I don't know that I'd call it likely, but it certainly seems plausible. Where do you see it? Well, when I look at the popular vote, I try I just I kind of ignore it, David, because the popular vote does not elect presidents. I mean, we're basically minority rule in this country because of the electoral college.

And so unless I, the only way I look at the popular vote of this, if someone is way ahead in the popular vote, and that sort of gives you an indication of what's happening in battleground states and in swing states. But those three states that you mentioned, you said Arizona, Pennsylvania, and Georgia, if that goes into the Republican column, Vice President Kamala Harris is in trouble. And so what's shocking to me, and one of the reasons that I wrote this book is that when you look at all of Donald Trump's indiscretions, all of the 34 criminal counts, all of the being, you know, found liable for sexually assaulting a woman, which the judge says is akin to rape, all of

those things, right? The cheating on the wife, all of that. And you still have 80% or 83%, I believe, of evangelicals who are going to support him and Christians and people who, you know, don't like LGBTQ community and all of those things. So I am shocked, honestly. That the polls are this close and it's a bit frightening that they are this close, so close to the election and that people are saying that they are undecided at this point. What is there to decide about? Yeah, that's confusing to me.

I mean, you didn't didn't you speak to some of these folks when you did your road trip to the DNC and you spoke to all sorts of people. Yeah. Did you you happened to cross some supposedly undecided people, right? Undecided people and people who just flat out said that they're supporting Donald Trump. Unlikely demographics that you would think. So I believe, David, just from going out and speaking to people, right, because I like to be my own sort of unscientific, you know, poll or focus

group person. So I go out and I talk to people. And I wasn't, I shouldn't say that I was shocked by it, because being in this business for so long, I'm never surprised by who people are going to say they're going to vote for. And just quite frankly, how uninformed they are sometimes, even with all the information that we have out there. Right. So I believe that there is a hidden vote for Donald Trump among black men, maybe not so hidden anymore. I believe there is a hidden vote for Donald Trump among young people, especially college students, white males on college campuses. And I believe there's a hidden vote for Donald Trump among women as well, because, you know, they think they tend to romanticize the past and they say, oh, things were great and better under Donald Trump. And they forget when they talk about groceries or, you know, prices are up, which is true,

they're coming down. But at least there are groceries on the shelves because there's not someone who handled the pandemic poorly and contributed to inflation and higher prices and all of those things. So I don't think that these people normally show up in polls or focus groups. So that should be a wake up call, I believe, to Democrats. And so these are not reluctant Trump voters. These are just Trump voters that don't want to admit publicly that that's what they are. Well, I think some of them are reluctant Trump voters and some of them are very adamant about

it. But when you think of generally African-Americans, especially men, you would think, OK, they're going to support the black woman. Not necessarily so. Or that Donald Trump has said and done so many racist things that they wouldn't support him. Or even women in general. And you think about, you know, the whole E. Jean Carroll of it all and all that stuff. You would think, and reproductive, women's reproductive rights, you would think. But I heard person after person after person saying, hey, look. And here's the thing. I don't think that those folks would say that to any sort of generic pollster, a focus group person. Almost to a person, those people say, hey, Don Lemon. And I would go, hey, how are you? Oh my God, I can't believe that you're out here. And so I would ask them a question. They would say, okay, well, I don't normally say this, but I'll tell you, Don, because they feel like they know me from being in their living rooms for 16 years. So I just think that they are being candid about their votes and they're not necessarily candid and honest about it with focus groups or pollsters, if even if they pick up the

phone for those folks, because most people have cell phones now, a lot of those are done on landlines. Speaker 1 Hey, last thing I wanted to ask you about, aside from who will win, which if you have a prediction, fine, but it's sort of like it'll probably be close. I have no idea who's going to win. I have a different question, which is when do you think we will know who the winner is? I don't think we will know the night of. And I think it will be some time. If you look at David, you've been covering this, what's happening in Georgia and the folks who've sort of infiltrated the local election process in Georgia.

And they get to decide who can certify, whether the state can certify or then, you know, federally, if the election can be certified. Those people will hold off for as long as they can. They'll try to figure out some way to maneuver the election in their state towards Donald Trump. And so that and that's happening in Georgia and it's happening in a number of other states. So I think there's going to Donald Trump is going to contest it if Kamala Harris wins. The win for Kamala Harris, in order for us to know soon after the election, I don't mean the night of, but just within days, it will have to be a big win or a landslide. And going into this right now, if you believe the polling

snapshot in time, yeah, that that is not going to happen. But I think we will be surprised on election night. I do believe that there could be a big win for the vice president, even with all of those, you know, that secret vote that I talk about. And you think that that we may start to get that picture on election night, even if we don't have final results? I think we'll start to get the picture. But even if we don't get final results and even if it is a win for the vice president, we all believe it. It's going to take a while for those people to concede. And remember, you know, when they did the whole thing where they're, I forget what they call the group of people who went in and they had to count the votes over and over and over again, some sort of team that they call it.

I forget what they call it. Yeah. I don't remember if it was the forensic audit or the. Yeah. Yeah. So that could very much. This is good. This is beyond hanging chads. Yeah. John, if you will, can you just get me eleven thousand, whatever, eight hundred or whatever votes? This is going to be beyond that this time. All right. We've been speaking with Don Lemon. The book is I once was lost. My search for God in America. Don, great having you on. I appreciate it. Thank you, David. It's always a pleasure. Good to see you. And I hope to see you on my show sometime soon. to the language learning process. And one of the most useful tools I've ever used is the app called Babbel. The way our sponsor Babbel teaches you languages truly works and it works fast. Instead of a bunch of silly quizzes and games like a lot of the other apps, Babbel is designed by real

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dot com slash Pacman. All right, the Republican Party and Trump are slowly bailing on North Carolina gubernatorial candidate Mark Robinson. But don't think for a second that it's because of their moral disgust at what he got caught involved in being involved in. It's not for a second because it's the right thing to no longer stand behind him. It just looks bad. And if this guy wins, they will come crawling back to ask him for goodies. So let me kind of reset what happened. Mark Robinson is running for governor in North Carolina. He's currently the lieutenant governor. And over the last week, we learned that he said wacky things in various online venues, including that he is a black Nazi.

He's he's he is black. He said he's a black Nazi. He admitted to finding a way to peep into the girls showers in locker rooms, and he would regularly do that. He said he's into transgender pornography, which is at direct odds with everything he has said publicly about the trans community. And there's more. We started to suspect that things were going bad for Mark Robinson when Trump did a rally over the weekend in North Carolina and Robinson wasn't there when almost all of Robinson's campaign staff quit. And when there were Trump staffers begging Mark Robinson, get out of the race because you're going to cost Trump North Carolina. And now we know that there is a lot more to it. The Daily Beast reports Trump withdraws support Republicans. Republican Party pulls

funding from black Nazi Mark Robinson. Now, to be really clear, Trump hasn't actually unendorsed him. Trump has stopped supporting him. They didn't invite him to the rally. Trump's no longer talking about him or how great he is, how much he loves him or any of this stuff. The Republican Party is no longer funding him. So that is a more significant change. But here's why this is all kind of farcical in a way. Mark Robinson was going to get crushed regardless. So this is just the obvious move for self-preservation. Take a look at the latest polling out of North Carolina. This is polling from before this scandal. Stein leading by 10 among likely voters and Stein leading by 11 among registered voters.

Even going back prior to that, it's Stein plus five, Stein plus eight and Stein plus 13. I can't find any poll going all the way back to man. How far back am I going? We're back to August now. In July, there was one poll that had it as only a one point race. OK, June 11th, there was a spry strategies poll that said Robinson was winning by four. But the point is, if we look at the latest polls, this guy's getting crushed by double digits. So don't believe for a second that if somehow two. So two things. First of all, if it looked like Mark Robinson had a real shot, you would not see this going on because they would say the ends justify the means. Dangerous Democrat Stein would be terrible for the state.

We've got to stay behind this guy, his personal whatever does not part of this. OK, that's number one. Secondly, if somehow Mark Robinson figures out a way to win this race, they would immediately embrace him. They would immediately embrace him. They would say our great Republican governors, we have so many this that North Carolina. None of this is based on principles. It's based on damage control. The Republican Party had no problem with any of this stuff. You know, before it became clear like this guy just can't even win.

It was I don't even know that this stuff is necessarily stuff that he said when J.D. Vance was asked about it. He said something like, I don't not believe Mark Robinson's explanation, you know, just double negatives, all of this nonsense and all of the evidence as to why the Republican Party took days to actually start pulling away is they were calculating, does this guy have a chance? Does he not? How bad is the PR going to get? The second that the toxicity to chance to win ratio became what it is now, they said, nope, this is too much. They have no moral authority on any of these topics. It's all transactional in MAGA.

The ends justify the means no matter how much you're sacrificing in terms of morals or values, even your own stated morals or values. And now they are doing this. Now he's going to get crushed. He's going to get crushed, especially now. But rest assured, if he somehow figured out a way to win this thing, they would just be like, hey, we won. We've got a governor.

Great news. I dare you. Dare you to make sense of this incoherent answer from Donald Trump when he was asked by Cheryl Atkinson how he would bring down prices if he were elected president. This is a doozy. This is a doozy. Now, remember, at the top of the show, we talked about the same washing of Trump and how Trump's incoherent economic answers are sometimes couched as direct and strong.

Here is Cheryl Atkinson on full measure asking Trump, how will you bring down prices? And I dare you to decode it. Kamala Harris has been very short on specifics when it comes to economy, other than saying she wants an opportunity economy. What are the specific mechanics of how prices come down? You know, the steps that would be taken in a second term for you. So first of all, she can't do an interview. She could never do this interview

because you ask questions like, give me a specific answer. She talks about her- Yeah, which I won't be answering either, by the way. ... long when she was growing up. This woman is not equipped to be president. She's not equipped to deal with President Xi, who I was very-

I took in hundreds of billions of dollars with him. And Putin, we had no war with Putin. Remember, and I'm just going to go off just for this with Bush. They took a lot. Russia with Biden, they're trying to take everything with Obama. They took a lot with Trump. Russia took nothing. I hope you're following his explanation here as to how he will bring down prices. Just remember that, you know, it's a little a little chart. What happened? And when you look at what took place was so sad when they took over, they cut the oil

way down and oil started going through the roof. It was going to go to ten dollars a gallon. It was going to go to numbers that nobody's ever seen. And so they went back to the Trump drilling. They said, let it go back. That was the only good thing. But they stopped because I would be there. But four years later, I would be triple what the number was. Right now, they're just about even where I was. But they only did that because of the fact that they eventually have an election coming up. And you remember at the beginning what happened. That's one of the fact that they eventually have an election coming up. And you remember at the beginning what happened? That's one of the reasons that Putin went in, because it went to one hundred dollars a barrel instead of 40.

Remember, the question was, how will you bring down prices? I'm not going to do the next set nine minutes of Trump talking about this, but it's worth seeing how he does not come back to an answer. and he could fight all the wars he wants with those kind of numbers because he's a big seller of oil and gas. So what happens is they went back to what I was doing, just said, reopen, just reopen. It wasn't hard. It's so crazy what they want to do. They're going to destroy lives. They're going to destroy what they have done to this country, and especially in the

sense of allowing millions and millions of people come in, because that's something, you know, we can fix the gasoline situation, and we can fix the anything. Do prices come down magically because it's not them? They come down with energy, and they come down with interest rates. We're going to get, as I told you, we're going to get energy down by 50 percent in 12 months. And of course, he wraps up with this completely impossible promise that energy prices are going to be coming down by 50 percent. You know, he he opens his answer by saying Kamala Harris or as he says, Kamala Kamala Harris can't do an interview like

this because you're asking specific questions and she can't answer them. Trump doesn't answer a single question. And every question leads back to I know Putin and she and or undocumented immigrants are coming from insane asylums and ruining everything. So I challenge the sane washers, whether it's Martha McCallum on Fox News, Kayleigh McGee from the D.C. Examiner, this lady, Sharon Atkinson. I challenge any of them to sane wash this complete and total absurdity. Hey, quick question. Why do people keep calling in acting like I'm a communist when I've made very clear that I'm not and the actual communists really don't like me because I'm not a communist? Here's a voicemail that came in to two one nine two.

David P. You can call the voicemail number anytime you want. If you have something to say. Here's a call saying, David, well, what about this about communism? And here's that about communism. Why are you asking me this? I'm not a communist. How do you think you'll fare under a communist system? I don't plan to go to one and I am not in favor of communism. Do you actually think you will be safe or you will be respected? It's very unlikely. You see, Mao doesn't believe in safety nets. If you can't hold your own, you're dead. Okay. So if you think that because you're progressive. You are safe or considered a friend. By a communist regime or a further left regime.

You're mistaken. I do not believe that as a progressive communist regimes would love me, nor do I support communist regimes, nor do I plan to move to a communist country. Why are people calling me with this crap? I don't know how else to explain that. I'm not a communist. All right. On the bonus show today, it doesn't look like the play for winner take all in Nebraska in

terms of the electoral votes is going to work. And that's good news. Secondly, the Georgia Election Board has ordered a full hand count of votes in November's presidential election. How long is it going to take to do that in Georgia? We will discuss. And finally, Republicans seem to be saying no to Trump and actually working

to avert a government shutdown. Why are they doing it? Why are they not bowing to Trump? We will discuss all of it and more on today's bonus show. Sign up at join Pacman dot com and you will get instant access.