The David Pakman Show - 9/4/25: Is MAGA collapsing under Trump’s own weight?

Episode Date: September 4, 2025

-- On the Show: -- Epstein victims publicly say Jeffrey Epstein bragged that he was very good friends with Donald Trump -- Epstein survivors announce they will compile their own list of names connected to Epstein’s world -- Donald Trump angrily dismisses questions about the Epstein files as a Democrat hoax while reporters press him -- Gavin Newsom gains attention for directly challenging Trump and triggers him into angry posts -- Florida Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo compares vaccine mandates to slavery and pushes anti-science rhetoric -- New jobs report shows more unemployed Americans than available jobs as Trump’s policies worsen the economy -- Trump calls Republican Congressman Thomas Massie an insurgent who should be taken out after Massie backs Epstein victims -- Trump posts bizarre late-night rants while appearing physically frail and denying Epstein victims’ accounts -- Marjorie Taylor Greene urges Trump to meet Epstein’s victims and supports releasing documents despite his resistance -- On the Bonus Show: National Guard deployed in DC losing morale, Fox bosses called Jeanine Pirro a "reckless maniac," Newsmax suing Fox News, and much more... 🔬 Freedom From Religion Foundation: Text DAVID to 511511 or visit https://ffrf.us/school ⚠️ Ground News: Get 40% OFF their unlimited access Vantage plan at https://ground.news/pakman -- Become a Member: https://davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe to our (FREE) Substack newsletter: https://davidpakman.substack.com -- Get David's Books: https://davidpakman.com/echo -- TDPS Subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow -- David on Bluesky: https://davidpakman.com/bluesky -- David on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow 00:00 – Epstein bragged about friendship with Trump 06:20 – Survivors plan their own Epstein client list 11:39 – Trump calls Epstein questions a Democrat hoax 19:25 – Newsom challenges Trump, triggers angry posts 26:45 – Florida’s Ladapo compares mandates to slavery 32:50 – Jobs report shows more unemployed than jobs 38:01 – Trump attacks Rep. Massie over Epstein support 42:28 – Trump posts frail, bizarre late-night rants 50:44 – Greene urges Trump to meet victims, release docs

The victims of Jeffrey Epstein are implicating Donald Trump. A bombshell news conference was held yesterday involving some of the victims of Jeffrey Epstein. There was a flyover, which some suggested was timed by the Trump administration specifically to intimidate the victims. There were strange political bedfellows being generated by this event. And there is a lot to talk about here. Remember, they want this story to go away. The Trump administration, Trump, Bondi, Cash Patel, Dan Bonjino, they would like nothing

more than to never hear about this story again. But now it's not only the transparency-minded media that wants to get these documents. It's also the victims who are saying, we, in a way, need those perpetrators to be named for our own, I don't want to say restitution, but as a sort of reminder that this is a real story with real victims. And as many of you know, I've said many times now that the group that has been sort of most missing from the discussion of all of this. It's about Trump. It's about Pam Bondi. It's about Jelaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein. What about the many victims?

And so that is what this was about. At yesterday's press conference, which was covered by our friends over at Midas Touch, the Epstein victims came right out and said it. Donald Trump was one of Jeffrey Epstein's biggest brags that they're good friends. Take a listen to this. The truth is, Epstein had a free pass. He bragged about his powerful friends, including our current president, Donald Trump. It was his biggest brag, actually.

And while I, what I endured will haunt me forever. I live every day with PTSD. I live as a mother trying to raise my child while distrusting a world that has betrayed me. This kind of trauma never leaves you. Is this why? Is it this simple? Is this why Trump doesn't want the Epstein files release? Now, in another moment, which has become the subject of a lot of controversy, Anuska de Giorgio was interrupted by Donald Trump's military flyover as she was speaking about Gillesne Maxwell.

We don't know if the flyover was deliberately timed to try to interfere with this event, but the effect was certainly chilling. This woman abused children. I was abused by Geoffrey Epstein and Gillen Maxwell for over 10 years. Gillen Maxwell was present for some of my abuse at the hand of Jeffrey Epstein. She was present, she was complicit, she was enabling, and it is appalling and disgusting. And it's one of my worst nightmares that she'll not only be transferred, but the possibility that's very much going around. round that she might be pardoned. This is not okay, guys. This is not okay.

My first trip to the Palm Beach residents. I drove there from the airport with Gilin Maxwell and they Jeffrey and E. Lin were always very very boastful about their friends. They're famous or powerful friends. And his biggest brag forever was that he was very good friends with Donald Trump. All right. So that's part of that same clip that we heard earlier. Now, there's a smear campaign against the victims. Not surprising. This happens every single time. These are not political operatives. These are not anonymous sources. You can see the women. You can see their faces. They stood there alongside Congressman Roecona and Congressman Thomas Massey, a Democrat and a Republican. These are Epps.

victims and they're speaking under their own names. They're speaking on the record. I don't mean that legally, but what I mean is they are presenting themselves and speaking with their own voices. They are describing Donald Trump as Jeffrey Epstein's biggest brag. So this is not casual gossip. This is not rumor. We are hearing from the victims themselves. Someone in Epstein's inner circle being name dropped as part of the pitch to others. And it makes the Trump White House's refusal to release the files look a lot less like it's about privacy. Certainly not about national security. Give me a break.

It increasingly looks like it's simply about protecting the boss or the boss's friends. And notice how quickly the right wing media machine just memory holds this entire thing. Fox News, did they cover the press conference? They did not. Did Donald Trump get a single tough question from any of his story? from any of his softball interviewers, no. We will get to Trump being asked generically about Epstein during a press conference yesterday. You'll see that Trump is able to just attack and not a single reporter follows up.

So what we have here is the same media ecosystem that will spend, you know, seven to 10 days on Hunter Biden's crack pipe, suddenly pretending not to see real victims, not anonymous sources, people hidden with a voice scrambler, a voice distortor, or behind a black screen sitting in a shadow. This is real people talking about Trump's friendship with a child sex trafficker. So they are running interference at this point in time. And maybe the most exciting or interesting thing feels wrong to use the word exciting for something so tragic. But the most compelling aspect of yesterday's press conference with the victims is that they can put

together their own Epstein list. The part that might be the worst for Donald Trump and his allies of yesterday's press conference involving Jeffrey Epstein's victims is that they have their own list. I spoke about this yesterday on the bonus show with producer Pat. And what I said is FOIA requests, grand jury testimony, sealing, unsealing, whatever. The victims are have the list. They can say, I was victimized by the following people. Here is a bit of yesterday's press conference about exactly that. And also, I would like to announce here today, us Epstein survivors have been discussing creating our own list. We know the names. Many of us were abused by them. Now, together as survivors, we will confidentially compile the names we all know who regularly

and who are regularly in the Epstein world and it will be done by survivors and for survivors. No one else is involved. Stay tuned for more details. In other words, in other word, this is a disaster for Donald Trump. Forget waiting for courts. forget playing a part or standing aside as the dog and pony show of Trump directing Pam Bondi to release pertinent parts of grand jury testimony. Forget about that. Forget about foyer requests. Forget about waiting for Trump's Justice Department to misplace the documents.

You know, we thought we had some documents. We can't find them. The dog ate them. They're eating the cats. They're eating the dogs. forget about it the people who were there and saw the parties they were on the flights some of them they saw the visitors come through they will be putting together their own list without a government gatekeeper and with every getting around the people who have every incentive to keep the big

names secret now think about what that means it is not just about the official paper trail anymore. For very long, this was about who has the documents. Pam Bondi's got them on her desk. Is she going to get rid of them? And for too long, it was about attempts to distract. Tariffs this, Iran, that, Trump's hands, this. And I'm not saying every attempt to distract is about an illegitimate topic. I'm not saying every attempt to distract is deliberate by Trump. But what I mean is as the Epstein files continue not to come out, the news continues. And people get distracted. They're distrable. by other stories and they get back to their own lives. If you're working and trying to put food in your fridge in Saginaw, Michigan, you're not

necessarily breathlessly waiting for the Epstein files. But that doesn't mean that transparency about the president's potential involvement with the child sex trafficking ring isn't important. So we don't know whether the list they are compiling will be public. We don't know. By the way, I hope that none of these women. end up accidentally falling out of their windows multiple times, right? You understand what I'm saying.

I don't know if it will be made public or if it won't. I don't know if there will be some legal mechanism employed to attempt to suppress this. But even the threat that the list could be compiled outside of Donald Trump's control is a nightmare for anyone who thought that they could bury the story. Now, I want to say one other word about balance. and then we'll get to Donald Trump's reaction about this. I really do want to be guided by the facts. The facts right now do not include the facts right now do not include that Trump was a perpetrator

in sexually assaulting underage girls as part of the Epstein ring. That may be or it may not. We do not have evidence of that at this point in time. The facts are Trump does. doesn't want the list out. That we know. The facts are Trump's officials, Pam Bondi, Cash Patel, et cetera, are not releasing the list. The facts are they insist we've released 33,000 files or whatever it is, but we know that that's not new. We know that the 3% of stuff that hasn't been released is the key stuff. Now, what is actually in there? It might be Trump trying to

protect his friends, maybe for his own benefit, right? Not because he cares about it. his friends, but because he realizes if the list comes out, my friends won't give me money or won't support me. That's one possibility. Possibility number two is that Trump is in the files, but not as a perpetrator criminally. But that's bad enough. And Trump doesn't want that coming out. Or it's possible Trump is in the files as a perpetrator. I'm not ready to go to the next point of telling you what is in there because we don't know. But what we do know is Trump doesn't want the files coming out. And he and his administration are using pressure campaigns to try to prevent that. Now we go to Trump's reaction when asked about it. With strangely yellow hands and an

orange face, Donald Trump was not happy to be asked again about the Epstein files. Trump resorting to it's a Democrat hoax. It's irrelevant. Stop talking about it. Take a listen. calling for these case files, these documents to be released, and Thomas Massey, who is sponsoring a discharge position to get the House to vote on the lease in those documents, says he has to be here allocated in these files, but many of your friends and donors may be. And he says that's why the Justice Department is redacting them and slow walking the release. Are he's the Justice Department protecting any friends or donors? Sir. So this is a Democrat hoax that never ends. You know, it reminds me a little of the

The Kennedy situation, we gave him everything over and over again, more and more and more. And nobody's ever satisfied. From what I understand, I could check. But from what I understand, thousands of pages of documents have been given. But it's really a Democrat hoax because they're trying to get people to talk about something that's totally irrelevant to the success that we've had as a nation since I've been president. Trump says it's a hoax in that if you talk about Epstein, you aren't talking about my success as president.

But Trump is saying a lot of things in there that aren't true. How is it a Democrat hoax if survivors have told their stories? We just heard from the survivors. It's not Comey putting Trump's name in files. We have victims of Epstein who said Epstein would regularly talk about his best friend Donald Trump. Trump is pulling the whole, I believe we've released thousands. of files. That's not new. Most of what the administration, quote, released was already

out. The key is in what they are not releasing and what they go back and forth on as to whether they even have. We're not going to forget about this. And interestingly, even though some of the MAGA people have now been swayed by Trump, there are MAGA people who believe Trump was going to finally deliver transparency on the Epstein stuff. And they believe Trump is participating in a cover up here. We are not falling for this. We're just not going to fall for it. Now, um, some, uh, reporters called out Donald Trump and said, you know, you're talking about the restaurants in DC. You're talking about safety. You've never gone to a restaurant in DC. And Trump doesn't really like the line of questioning.

I'm not terrorists. Well, you visit a restaurant. You see, you haven't gone to. I'm Michael. Sure. You've been gone to one in either of your terms that wasn't. How do you know? How do you know?

Because I and many other. Do you want me to prove you wrong? Do you want me to prove you wrong? Yes, please. But I will, I think it's something we could consider doing. I love to do it. I love the White House food, but after a while, I can see it going to a nice restaurant. It's safe.

You know, it's funny. Trump says, how do you know I didn't go to a restaurant? in D.C. And by the way, having takeout from McDonald's brought into the White House doesn't count. Well, we know because the whereabouts of the president are a matter of public record. The answer is just so silly. Trump choosing during this strange event to continue telling this debunked, ridiculous story about California water and fires, this is the very story that led Governor Gavin Newsom to suggest that Donald Trump is suffering from dementia, retelling endlessly the same story over and over again, a story that happens to be untrue.

But more importantly, he didn't allow the water to come from the Pacific Northwest. You know, they have tremendous amounts of water in California. People don't know. They send the water out to the Pacific Ocean. So I demand it to be open. If that were open during the fire before the fire, you wouldn't have the fire because all the sprinklers would have worked in the houses. I hope people realize how absurd.

This is. No water. They had no water in the fire hydrants. You wouldn't have had the fires. It would have been put out after one house, two houses. But he stopped the water from coming in. And I had to send in the military to have that water open after the fires. And now they have had water, but he should have more because they've restricted, they

still restricted. There's something wrong with these people. There's something really wrong. There is definitely something wrong. But what's wrong is Trump repeating this dumb story about water over and over and over and over again. And then maybe the most interesting moment of this press conference, it's the moment where the true Trump is revealed. A reporter asked Donald Trump a great question for someone with Trump's personality and constitution. Were you upset that Beijing, China, didn't invite you

to their parade? Remember, Trump is increasingly being excluded by the very strong men he adores. Putin and Xi and Kim Jong-un hanging out, shaking hands, holding hands, even. And Trump is nowhere and it eats away at him like a like maggots eating away at an apple. I don't know. Here is Trump going, no, no, no, no. I'm not bothered. Didn't even cross my mind. Nice thing.

Yeah. You were not invited to the parade in Beijing. Never even thought about it until just now. I never even thought it wouldn't have been my place to be there would not even occur to me except we know Trump was thinking about it because he put out a truth social post saying give my regards to the people including Putin that were meeting Trump is jealous Trump is envious Trump realizes that the United States is increasingly being relegated to a secondary position as China and Russia, Turkey, even North Korea are creating this sort of ecosystem where they say, let's go ahead

without the United States. Maybe the United States under Trump isn't as critical as we thought to the growth and survival of our countries. This hits Trump because of his ego and it hits them really hard. There was a time when public education meant learning math, science, history. but now we are seeing Bible verses in biology class. We're seeing 10 commandments on the wall, religious chaplains taking the place of trained counselors, and it's all funded by taxpayer money through voucher programs that are sending

public dollars to private religious schools. This is part of a broader effort to inject religion into public education. I'm against that. And it often is coming at the expense of real academic standards and the well-being of the students. Now, our sponsor, the Freedom from Religion Foundation, is fighting back. FFRF defends constitutional principles, takes legal action when schools cross the line, and protects students from religious coercion in public classrooms. If you believe in facts in protecting education and keeping religion out of public schools, I can tell you this is an organization

very much worth supporting. To get involved, go to FFRRR. RF.org slash school or text David to 511.511 message and data rates may apply. The link is in the description. Gavin Newsom has triggered Donald Trump so strongly and so powerfully that Donald Trump has been relegated to complaining about the California governor and to posting AI generated videos of Gavin Newsom to truth social. Now, what I really want to get to is how Newsom has really figured out a way to do something that no other Democrat in recent history really has, which is to get positive attention by showing you are here for the fight. You're up for the fight. You're not going to shy away. But before we do that, check out the level of pathetic posting that the president

has stooped to, Trump posting last night to truth social, an AI video of Gavin Newsom wearing a Trump 2028 hat. I wasn't exaggerating when I said that I received in the mail a Trump 2028 hat from one his biggest supporters. These guys are not screwing around. There he is wearing the 2028 hat, of course, AI generated. And then another video in which Newsome is sort of that I want to describe this accurate. It's Newsome punching a punching bag that has an image of Trump on it.

Obviously, the image of Trump makes Trump look like a fit boxer rather than an obese 79-year-old. And Newsome, his arms are sort of flailing in a way that I think attempts to feminize him. Yeah. So that is what. what Donald Trump is doing. And as pathetic and childish and humiliating as it is for a president of the United States to be posting this crap to the internet, it's not hard to see why Donald Trump is lashing out. Newsome is doing number one, something the left has been desperate for, which is step into

the void and take Trump on head on. And number two, he's getting at Trump's biggest insecurities. I mean, listen, you can agree or disagree with Newsom on policy. You can say he's too far left as some Republicans do. You can say he's too far right as the purity test left likes to say. Fine. That's a policy discussion. That's healthy.

That's good. But Gavin Newsome, I mean, it's so silly, right? But superficially, Newsom is so many of the things Trump wants to be. Newsome is actually six three or however tall, right? When they meet on when they met on the tarmac, you saw that although Trump claims to be six three, Newsom is notably taller. Newsome is not obese. Newsome is better looking than Trump.

Newsome is more athletic than Donald Trump. Newsom can actually speak without a teleprompter eloquently the way Donald Trump wishes and begs that he could. And so I understand if you are a special snowflake triggered eagreesome. maniac like Donald Trump, who says all the things that he thinks makes him look like an alpha, but he's actually by their own standards, very beta, not terms I use. These are the ways they evaluate masculinity. It makes sense that Donald Trump is triggered. Now, in terms of what Newsom is doing within the Democratic Party, since the November election,

the Democratic Party has basically been rudderless. It's been leaderless. No one has been able to fill the void of a sort of happy warrior. I know it's a cringy term, but the way that Gavin Newsom has been able to do. Newsome throws punches while smiling. I think that that's a good thing. And we need more people. I don't want it to be just Newsom.

This is not about Newsom's the guy. This is about let's get more people doing it. I want to see Josh Shapiro doing it. I want to see, you know, it's a full list of people. AOC and Bernie, all of them. And what is interesting about Newsom's approach is that this has gone way beyond just California Democrats paying attention right now because you pay attention to the conversations that are happening at donor meetings, even outside political circles.

Gavin Newsom is the topic. I have friends who don't really follow politics. They do vote in presidential elections, but they don't really follow politics. They're aware of what Gavin Newsom is up to. have been privately saying, like they said to the Hill in an article that we will link to, we're obsessed with Newsome because there's no one else. Strategists are saying a lot of the people that are being drawn to Newsome aren't even asking about policy.

They're asking, can Newsom win? Now, there's a positive and a negative element to that, right? The positive of saying, can Newsome win is that it sounds results oriented. The negative about not asking about policy is we still want someone with good policy. We want someone who can win with good policy. And I'm sure that debate will be had. And by the way, I'm speaking like Gavin Newsom is running for president. That is certainly not something that he has announced.

But what Democrats need to figure out is who can beat MAGA. It's not going to be Trump running in 2028, but who can beat MAGA. And there are aspects of this that suggest it could be Newsome. The fact that he is triggering Trump so strongly points in that direction. He's matching Trump's style in a mocking way. He's leading the fight on redistricting. He's blasting Trump on immigration. And it's working.

His approval rating is up from 38 to 56. He has taken a lead in 2028 polling. He's ahead of Kamala Harris, who I don't think should run at all. I mean, just bad idea. He's ahead of Pete Buttigieg. And the numbers are extremely impressive. Now, is this enough to carry him to a victory in 2028? It is so early to say that.

Democratic governor from California, not something you would typically think of as this is who can defeat Republicans after, you know, eight years among 12 of Republican rule. But for now, he is the one getting the attention. And the real story here is Trump cannot stand the guy because he has charisma and he's willing to fight Trump. That's the real story. Trump fears looking weak. Trump fears looking rattled.

Trump fears being on the defensive, and that's what's happening. On the other side, this is a brutal indictment of the Democratic Party's messaging problem. The fact that donors and Democrats and casual observers of politics are obsessing over Newsome because he's just willing to fight tells you, damn, being willing to fight must be pretty rare in the Democratic Party right now. So we have an obvious subtext. The subtext is what's going to happen in 2028. We're seeing the polling jumps.

We're seeing the whispers. Newsom's building a national profile. The more Trump engages with him, the more Trump allows himself to be triggered and goaded and baited into responding. His rage posts make him look even more pathetic. And we are, I'm very curious to see where this goes in the next couple of months. Our vaccine mandates slavery. Well, Florida Surgeon General Joseph Lodapo says that every single vaccine mandate is wrong and drips with disdain and slavery.

Take a listen to the top health official from the state of Florida. This guy was a real beauty during the pandemic you might remember. Listen to what he had to say. Every last one of them is wrong and drips with disdain and disdain. and slavery okay who am i is a government or anyone else or you who am i is a man standing here now to tell you what you should put in your body now of course there's a difference between the government tells you what you must put in your body and the government tells you if you want to send your kid to public school what is required medically. You don't have to send them to public school.

You can homeschool, as many right-wingers do. You can go to private school if you can afford it. There's obviously an important distinction there. But this is one of the top health officials for one of the biggest states in the country. He's supposed to make decisions based on science and comparing basic public health rules to one of the most horrific atrocities in human history enslaving people. That's disgusting. Now, this isn't coming out of nowhere, by the way, we covered when Senator Rand Paul an ophthalmologist by trade.

Senator Rand Paul at some point said, if you have Medicare for all, if you have universal health care, it's sort of like slavery because you are conscripting doctors. And of course, it's silly because even if you have. Medicare for all, no one has to be a doctor. It just, it didn't make any sense. But this idea of medical and slavery is something that Republicans have been toying around with for a while. Now, Lodapo was handpicked by Ronda Sanctimonious because Lodopo was willing to echo the MAGA party line on COVID stuff. No matter what the data said, mass guidance, forget it. Social distancing, forget it. He promoted the idea long debunked that MRNA vaccines are dangerous.

state reports to make COVID vaccines look riskier than they were. And during the height of the pandemic, you might remember this. We covered it at the time. LaDapo was questioning whether the vaccines do anything at all. And so it's been years. He is still at it. He's not just opposing vaccine mandates for COVID. He is calling for all vaccine mandates to end. So that means your kid at school will no longer be required to be vaccinated against measles, mumps, and polio diseases that we have nearly wiped out before MAGA decided science is the enemy. Let's stop vaccinating. Let's bring back some of these diseases. And we know where this goes. In 2019, measles, which was declared eradicated previously, measles came roaring back. And it was because of the

anti-vaccine misinformation in certain communities. We started seeing the first polio cases in certain communities in decades traced back to low vaccination rates. Now, the slavery line is no accident. Not only have other Republicans used it, LaDapo himself is black and certainly understands the sort of shocking nature of if the black guy is saying vaccine mandates are slavery, they must be. And it's meant to trigger outrage. It's meant to trigger this kind of visceral response.

And it's Trumpian DeSantis style to a T take an extreme position, wrap it in culture war language, and dare the media to cover it without repeating the lie. Now, the danger is that when someone in Lodapos position talks like this, it riles up the base, but it does erode public trust in vaccines. The result in Florida will be lower vaccination rates, I assure you. And so this is much more than a fringe doctor on the internet. He is a fringe doctor on the internet. But this is the voice of health policy in the state of Florida, talking more like a conspiracy blogger and making decisions that affect millions of people. They wanted to do this from day one.

We knew when Trump won and selected Robert F. Kennedy Jr., they were going to try to do this at the federal level and that it would trickle down. The decision for a lot of people is going to be, do I stay in one of these wacky states that's doing this stuff? or do I move to greener pastures in blue states, which, by the way, have better education anyway? Donald Trump has already packed his second term cabinet with loyalists. He's threatened deportation as political punishment.

He's expanded executive authority in ways we have not seen in modern history. These are real changes that are happening right now. And what's even more alarming is that a lot of the media is either glossing over the worst of it or they're reframing it so it all sounds a little more palatable. And that is why I use ground news. This is a news comparison tool. Doesn't just feed you headlines. It shows you here's how different outlets left, right center, are covering the same story.

And this is one of the few tools I know of that can really help you detect the political spin, the bias, catch stories that your usual sources might downplay or not cover at all on everything from immigration policy to economic shifts. If you want to get a bigger picture, a broader picture of what's being reported, ground news is an invaluable source to keep you informed. And ground news is offering my audience 40% off their top tier vantage plan. You'll only pay five bucks a month. Go to ground. Dot news slash Pacman or enter the code Pacman in the app to get started.

The link is in the description. On the show tomorrow, we are going to dive pretty deeply into the economic cracks that are now. showing but for today it's becoming clear that just about every other day we're getting some sign of a softening economy. We're getting some indication that things are not so hot when it comes to the economy. And much of it is Donald Trump's own doing. Now for the first time since April of 2021, there are more unemployed Americans than there are jobs.

For a while, we had open jobs, but the number of people actively looking for work was lower than the number of open jobs. Now, that's a whole other economic issue for companies looking to hire, but it's a completely different sort of framing in terms of whether it shows a sign of problems in the economy or a sign of a healthy economy. From the government's own data, we now see more unemployed Americans than there are jobs. The latest report shows the ratio of job openings to unemployed workers has dropped below one to 0.99 in July. What that means is that if you're out of work, there are not enough jobs to go

around. Job openings fell to about 7.1 million. This is fewer than economists expected. And this means it's taking unemployed people longer to find work. This is both expensive for the government because people are on unemployment benefits longer than they otherwise might be. It's also a bad sign for the economy. Economists say, this is not yet a wave of layoffs. not yet, but we do see job creation slowing down. And one of the reasons for that slowdown is Trump's own policies. The immigration crackdown is a problem. We are seeing a shrinking of the labor force at the same time that the economy is cooling.

A Bank of America's Aditya Bave said that the drop in labor force participation is linked directly to Donald Trump's anti-immigrant agenda. And so this bad jobs report happens to have arrived at the same time as some other worrying signs with economic growth being below its potential. Tariffs, of course, are cutting into profit margins. Labor force participation is at its lowest rate since 2022. Consumer confidence has slipped. The Federal Reserve is almost certainly going to cut interest rates now.

Traders are betting on that with about a 95% certainty. And not because things are going well, but because. they're worried about the economy stalling. The Fed cuts rates to prevent the economy from stalling. Now, on this show, I really do try to depoliticize discussions of the economy. Presidents can't control everything about the economy. So much about the direction of an economy depends on global business cycles, seasonality, natural resource availability, one-off events like pandemics, right? None of that stuff has to do with presidents. There are things presidents do control.

Trade policy, immigration, government spending, the business environment that they set. And Trump has taken each of those areas and proactively done something optional to hurt the economy. He put tariffs on imports that raise prices for companies and consumers. That's not good for the economy. He's restricted immigration in ways that leave industries short on workers. That's not good for the economy. He's created uncertainty with the trade threats in public fights. Are the tariffs on?

Are they off? I'm fighting with the Fed. Jerome, lower the rates. And instead of making smart investments to boost growth, he's just focused on political projects that are more about helping his friends than creating jobs or boosting productivity. So the Fed's been warning about what's coming. St. Louis Fed President Alberto Musolem says that low hiring means that even a small uptick in layoffs

could snowball into a bigger collapse. Fed Governor Chris Waller says the labor market is much weaker today, and he wants rates cut at this point in time. And we have historical parallels to this. George H.W. Bush lost reelection in 92 after he was slow to respond to deteriorating economic conditions. Jimmy Carter's presidency was crippled by the sort of stagflation we could be going to. Herbert Hoover became the face.

of economic problems when he made numerous policy mistakes after the crash. And in all of these scenarios, the president never controls everything, but they made bad decisions that made the problem worse. And meanwhile, Trump's saying the economy is awesome. Record jobs, record this, prices down, everything's great. The truth is fewer job openings, more people out of work, economy losing steam, inflation ticking up, manufacturing index at its lowest point in five years on and on and on. An economist are saying, this does seem to be going in a bad direction. Donald Trump is back to using the kind of language that got people hurt before.

This time, it is aimed at one of his own Republican Congressman Thomas Massey. Massey is doing something I respect, which is even if it's not politically expedient, he is speaking up for the Epstein victims. He was part of that press conference we covered earlier with Rokana, where victims spoke. And they said, yes, Trump and Epstein were friends. Yes, we are going to make our own list of perpetrators. We were there. We know who they are. And so Massey is doing something Trump doesn't like. Hours later, Trump is interviewed by Scott Jennings and says, we need an ins we need uh someone to take out the insurgent thomas massey so we have a thing that's happening and and i do bring a unity to the republican party you know almost every single

person i've endorsed has one yeah i can't think of anyone what it was if i endorse a person they win and i do well in the elections too i don't want to put that down because with the republican party, it's like 399-0. Think of that. And many of those are insurgents, people that are like better. You know, I didn't like a certain Republican. And, you know, we like this guy Massey. He's going to be taken out. He's no good. He never votes. He never votes or anything, you know. It's like he's from Kentucky. He's always a no vote. It's like automatic, if it's good or bad, he thinks he gets publicity by voting now. We call him Rand Paul Jr. But, uh, It's terrible, some of these guys.

So sometimes you have to take them out and I do and I win. That is not policy talk. That is not normal political disagreement. That is the kind of language you use when you want your audience to picture violence. And Trump knows who's listening. We've been here before, my friends, in the weeks leading up to the January 6th riots, Trump told the supporters, you got to fight like hell. It's going to be wild.

Walk down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol. And they did, and they smashed their way into the Capitol. They hunted lawmakers in the halls. They demanded the hanging of Mike Pence. People died. And Trump has never taken responsibility. And so what he's doing now is he's saying, how far can I push it? These are not isolated slips.

Trump has dropped. Remember, the Second Amendment people should do something about, I think it was Hillary Clinton. Let's rough up the protesters. Don't be too gentle with them. Knock the hell out of our opponents. This is mob talk. This is Trump hinting at what he wants without saying it outright. We've talked about the term stochastic terrorism before.

I think it applies here. And Trump's followers have proven we're willing to do it. We're willing to take these hints literally. And the timing matters. The Epstein files are politically explosive. Massey is trying to get them out. If Massey is right about what those files contain, it could expose some very powerful people. And so when you consider that and you see the effort that Trump has made to cover up the

files and you see the pressure campaign that the White House has started to prevent the release of the files, you have to interpret Trump's language in that context. And it doesn't sound like random bluster when you understand the context. It's more of a threat. Warning anyone, you go down this road, we might take you out whatever that means. We know what happens when Trump says, these people, that person, this guy is my enemy. The question is whether anyone in power will take it seriously before something happens this time. And from what we've seen, the answer is they will not.

No one is going to take it seriously. And Trump is going to continue doing exactly this. Now, interestingly, Marjorie Taylor Green also seems to be turning on Trump, at least with regards to the Epstein file. So we're going to talk about that maybe later today, maybe tomorrow, depending on how much time we have. The David Packman Show is an audience supported program and the best most direct way to support the show is by becoming a member at join packman.com. You'll get the daily bonus show, the daily commercial free show, and plenty of other great membership perks. Get the full experience

by signing up at join packman.com. President Donald Trump had another one of these late night meltdowns, the kind where you wonder if anybody at the White House is actually in charge or if the president is doom scrolling and rage posting into the early hours, either laying down in his bed or sitting on his chair. Anyway, it started during the day when Donald Trump appeared alongside the president of Poland looking frail and unfocused and really just physically out of it. As you know, Donald Trump's hands bruised and almost gray, they looked worse than ever. It seems they're having a really difficult time getting the makeup color right.

And of course, cognitively, it's a lot of the same stuff. The mid-sentence glitches, the lack of being able to seriously deal with policy in a substantive way. And one of the really illuminating things over the last few days has been taking transcripts of the things Trump has said and just looking at them in someone else's voice, reminding us that even though we've become kind of desensitized to Donald Trump's communication style, this stuff really doesn't make any sense. So then we get into sort of the more substantive part of the day and Trump is unable to speak coherently about it.

Ukraine Russia policy or what's happening with the militarization of troops. We've looked at examples already. just building up the picture of how overall the average full day for this man doesn't make any productive sense. We then get to truth social where Donald Trump posted an AI generated image of Rosie O'Donnell with the caption, we are giving serious thought to taking away Rosie O'Donnell's citizenship. She is not a great American. Now, this is not the first time Trump has waxed.

poetic about stripping Rosie of citizenship. Remember that Rosie O'Donnell, friend of the show, by the way, and supporter of the show, Rosie O'Donnell has left the country and has moved to Ireland. Donald Trump turned his anger towards Rosie O'Donnell. I guess it must have been like six weeks to eight weeks ago, something like that. Sort of a time warp. Sometime during 2025, Trump went after Rosie O'Donnell and said, I'm thinking of taking away her citizenship. He hasn't done it yet. It's hopefully an empty threat, it would be completely outrageous and just flatly, dictatorially authoritarian to take away the citizenship of someone because they don't like your political views and you don't like theirs, but we know that Donald Trump has been obsessed with Rosie

for at least a decade. The endless tirade continued with Donald Trump, you know, posting a picture of Adam Schiff and then the AI videos of Gavin Newsom, which I showed you earlier. He's posted these bizarre juvenile images of Chris Christie and Illinois governor J.B. Pritzker's faces on sumo wrestlers. And this is what the leader of the free world is doing in the middle of the night. He's not working, which is fine. He should be sleeping. He's certainly not governing. He's not substantively addressing any crisis.

He's posting sort of meme junk food for the magabase while the country faces. serious problems. And maybe the biggest story here or the most sickening story has been what Donald Trump has been saying during the day, as we already discussed, saying the entire Epstein thing is a Democrat hoax, even though we heard from victims and victims said Trump and Epstein were friends. We're going to develop our own list. Nope, Trump says it's a hoax. When Trump was asked, by the way, two days ago by Peter Ducey of Fox News, when did you hear about the rumor that you were dead? Trump goes, no, I didn't hear about it.

Reminded me, by the way, of my great conversation with Sarah Matthews, which I think got three or four million views. Donald Trump's former deputy press secretary, Sarah Matthews, spoke to me. And she said, no, sometimes when Trump hasn't heard of stuff, he really is kept in a bubble. He's on truth social. He's watching Fox News. That's kind of it. It's completely plausible that Trump really didn't know that his six day absence was causing

people to wonder what the hell is going on. And so the bigger question here to me becomes what happens with the suckups and the dilettantes in Congress and in the Senate and the MAGA space. You've got some of them like take your average James Comer of the world. He's running interference. He says Trump's name isn't in the documents. We've already been transparent by posting the 33,000 files or whatever. But the files with Trump's name are still hidden.

We aren't falling for this idea that they've released all of the stuff. And while all of this was unfolding, the hands rotting, the middle of the night posting, the humiliating deflections, while all of it was happening, Donald Trump still always finds the time to try to mock Gavin Newsom. And he even a couple days ago mocked Gavin Newsom about his hands, even though it's Trump's hands that are bruised, discolored, swollen, covered up with makeup, the irony would kind of be funny if it wasn't an obvious deflection from what Donald Trump is dealing with. So Trump and MAGA, they talk about states of emergency. We've got an emergency in D.C. We've got an emergency at the border. We've got an emergency in L.A. even though it was

like a two by three block radius where they deployed federal troops. These are all emergencies that we look for and we say, where are they? Where are the emergencies? But the real emergency seems to be the state of the presidency in 2005. You have a United States that's increasingly marginalized excluded by the current and growing global superpowers. And I don't say this with pleasure. One of the things that infuriates me is when I hear from these magas who go, you want the country to fail, David, I see you cheerleading every problem in this country, which is funny because that's a tacit acknowledgement that the problems exist, but put that aside for a moment. You want the country to fail. How unpatriotic, how terrible. No, no, no, no.

I want the country to succeed. And I even said at the beginning of this second Trump term, we're giving him a clean slate. he's made certain promises he's predicted how that will help the country let's see if he does it we're going to evaluate it but we're not seeing it the wars he said he would end haven't ended the prices he said we that would come down haven't come down the tariffs that would generate incredible GDP growth have not generated incredible GDP growth so I don't want to see the country fail and when I see the country globally humiliated as Putin Xi, and even Kim Jong-un are meeting.

Trump's not a part of it. Jealous, envious, but excluded, marginalized. That's sad for someone who wants the country to succeed. And then obviously you add to that, Trump's mentally slipping, Trump's physically deteriorating. He's up all night posting memes of his political enemies and using the full weight of his office and his own weight to smear and smother sex trafficking survivors instead of delivering the justice and transparency that he offered, it's pathetic, but it's also dangerous. And sadly, it's what you would come to expect from someone whose public image and maybe much

more is wrapped up in keeping the Epstein files buried and keeping the troth posting in the middle of the night going. He'll probably troth himself to the end of the presidency, and that's a terrifying thing to see. A small but growing group of Republicans is turning on Trump over the Epstein files. And it now includes radical, reactionary Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Trader. I'm sorry, Marjorie Taylor Green. In a stunning moment outside of the Capitol, Marjorie Taylor Green said to CNN's Manu Raju,

She spoke with Trump personally. She urged him meet with Epstein's victims in the Oval Office. And she had a lot of other things to say on this issue, on this particular issue, Marjorie Taylor Green has actually found the correct position. And this is a hostile act towards the administration. The hostile act has been against these women for so many years now. The hostile act is covering up for Jeffrey Epstein and everyone else that's been involved in this. And that's the real hostile act. I look forward to talking with President Trump about these women that I've met.

I also encouraged him already this morning that he should have these women in the Oval Office. They deserve to be there. You spoke to him. Yes, I did. And I told him I'd be happy to set that up, arranging with their attorney by sharing his phone number. What was his reaction about? I haven't got an answer back on that, but I'm continuing to encourage him that these are the people that deserve to be in the Oval Office, not any of Jeffrey Epstein's rich, powerful friends.

Listen, she's right about that. I mean, broken clocks are sometimes right. And Marjorie Taylor Green is completely correct on this issue. She's not alone. Thomas Massey, another Republican congressman, he's on record demanding full transparent. That means full transparency, not reminding us we've already released the files. It's actually releasing the full files. And a Trump's team has been warning these Republicans off.

A South Carolina congresswoman, another Republican Nancy Mace, she broke from the party line. She says we've got to release this stuff. She left a hearing with the victims in tears saying that her own status as a victim of sexual assault less than two years ago gave her a panic attack. panic attack and she left sobbing. So it's important to understand that these Republicans are really poking the hornets nest here. Because if you know Trump's history, you know that he turns on anyone who challenges him. You're a Democrat. You're a Republican. You're not political. You're a builder who's creating a problem for him, building some building in Manhattan. He will turn on you. And in this

particular case, the Epstein files really touch one of the most explosive political topics imaginable, which is for all of the right wing conspiracizing about a secret child sex trafficking ring involving Hillary and John Podesta and comet ping pong and Q and on and all of this stuff. We now have a situation where it's what is Trump's involvement in all of this? So the warning to the Epstein victims is on the one hand, don't allow yourselves to be used in one of Trump's propaganda spectacles because even though Marjorie Taylor Green is correct. identifying an issue, which is Epstein and Jelaine Maxwell get a ton of attention. Prince, whoever, I don't even remember which one it is. I don't want to say the wrong one.

Whichever prince it was that was associated with Epstein, you know, some of the alleged perpetrators get a ton of attention. But what about the victims who have been victimized by this situation? And so while the victims need way more attention, if Trump invited them to the Oval Office, it would be for another one of these completely self-serving photo ops, and I hope that they don't allow themselves to be used in that way. Because if history is any guide, Trump's meeting would be all about himself. He would interrupt. He would dominate the conversation.

He would flood the zone with lies. And so the victims do deserve platforms, good for Congressman Rokana and Thomas Massey for giving them that platform. their voices are the ones that should be heard, and they shouldn't have to share the stage with a guy who's been found liable, civilly liable of sexual assault and is saying this has nothing to do with them. This is not about transparency. This is about will the Republican Party protect its own political interests or are they going to put victims first and finally call for actual transparency? There are very few people in the Republican Party right now willing to break ranks. We know. that there are MAGA supporters who were convinced that Trump would be the guy that finally brings transparency and clarity to this issue. Trump's not bringing it. Some of those MAGA people have been bamboozled by Trump and they're like, yeah, we actually

don't need those documents. Others are saying, we voted for him for this. And now he's not doing it. We'll see if they hold him accountable by voting for something other than more Republicans in November. Next November, of course, that is. We've got a great bonus show for you today. The National Guardsmen deployed to D.C. are growing weary, and there is apparently no end in sight

at this point in time. Fox News bosses have privately been caught attacking U.S. Attorney Janine Piro as a reckless maniac, which she is. And finally, Newsmax is suing Fox News. News. Newsmax is arguing that Fox is unfairly pressuring cable networks, either not to carry Newsmax or to orient the channel far away from most news channels. And Newsmax is upset about this.

All of those stories and more are on today's bonus show. Get instant access to the bonus show and support this program in the most direct way possible, which is by becoming a member at join packman.com. I'll see you on the bonus show. I'll be back tomorrow.