The David Pakman Show - Iran backlash grows as they’re feeling around in the dark

Episode Date: March 26, 2026

-- On the Show -- Senator Tammy Baldwin, Democrat from Wisconsin, joins us to discuss what Congress can do to rein in Trump's war, gas price hikes, ICE at airports, and much more -- Billionaire investor Leon Cooperman tells Fox News that the US is heading towards a recession under Donald Trump which undermines Trump’s economic brand -- Donald Trump gives a confusing speech to GOP congressional members, making contradictory statements about the Iran War and mail-in voting -- Karoline Leavitt delivers a rambling defense of Trump, misrepresenting facts, and avoiding answering key questions about Iran and congressional authorization -- Pete Hegseth’s pastor publicly prays for the death of Democratic Senate candidate James Talarico and Talarico responds with love instead of threats -- Donald Trump posts erratic messages on Truth Social, demanding the filibuster be terminated, and complains about NATO and Iran -- Trump’s allies, including Nancy Mace, publicly criticize his Iran war strategy and refuse to support troops on the ground, signaling political distancing -- On the Bonus Show: The right wing is divided ahead of CPAC weekend, the Army raises its enlistment age to 42, Trump gets a new trophy, and much more... 📖 Book By Anyone: Create an unforgettable fully-customized gift at https://bookbyanyone.com ✉️ StartMail: Get 50% OFF for a year subscription at https://startmail.com/pakman 💻 Sponsored by Private Internet Access: 83% OFF + 4 months free at https://www.piavpn.com/DavidP 🤖 Sponsored by Venice: Use code PAKMAN for 20% off a Pro Account at https://venice.ai/pakman -- Become a Member: https://davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe to our (FREE) Substack newsletter: https://davidpakman.substack.com -- Get David's Books: https://davidpakman.com/echo -- TDPS Subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow -- David on Bluesky: https://davidpakman.com/bluesky -- David on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow (00:00) Start(01:18) Cooperman warns of recession(08:59) Trump speech confuses GOP(20:50) Leavitt rambles on Iran(29:35) Pastor prays for Talarico's death(38:17) Tammy Baldwin interview(49:52) Trump posts erratically online(56:48) Allies criticize Trump’s Iran war   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Visit medcan.com slash moments to get started. Today on the show, a telling snapshot of where things stand when even Fox News guests are starting to say out loud, the economy appears to be heading towards a recession under Donald Trump. This is a big problem when your whole brand is, I fix the economy. We're also going to look at a really rough speech from Trump where frankly, it's getting harder and harder to even follow what he's trying to say, never mind what he is saying. And then a truly bizarre performance from White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt, which explodes in an impenetrable word salad when asked a really simple question about who has the power to go to war

and when and what is actually happening. And then in a story that really goes beyond politics into something very dark happening in Christian nationalism, James Tala Rico is back in the news when Pete Hagseth spiritual advisor says he wants Tala Rico dead. We will discuss it as well as yet another truth social meltdown about the filibuster. Republicans are starting to plan their exit as we approach 26 and ultimately 28. All of it and more today. Why don't we do it?

You know, when you turn on Fox News and even the friendly guests are saying that Donald Trump's economy is barreling towards a recession, you know things are not going particularly well. I'm talking about billionaire investor Leon Cooperman who went on Fox News just hours ago and said very plainly and very calmly and very simply, I believe we are heading towards a recession. Let's take a look at the video. You will see the reaction from MAGA host Maria Bartaromo. And then I want to have a broader, broader conversation about this economy.

Last Friday, the Dow, there were. And I apologize. This is not Maria Bartoromo. This is Liz Clayman. couple of the indices. I mean, the Russell's already in correction territory. And the NASDAQ was very close to recession, I'm sorry, to correction territory. Has the market not come down enough? Have valuations of stocks not come down enough? And do you think that there's going to be some trigger where we see another leg down? I'm betting on that, yes. I think that we're heading

towards the likelihood of a recession. And that's what ended the bubble of 1982. The oil price was increased tenfold by the Arabs and it pushes into recession. The technology bubble of 2000 ended when we got into a recession in 2001, 2002. And so I think we're heading towards a recession and it could happen late this year or next year. Well, that must be, I don't know, like a Twitter economist, you know, like a Twitter economist, you know, like the Twitter epidemiologists from the COVID era, right? It's just someone on Twitter. Wrong.

Well, okay, but it must be like an MSNBC contributor. No, it's not an MSNBC contributor. It must be a communist, anarchist, socialist mark. No, it's not that either. This is multi-billionaire investor Leon Cooperman, who says we are barreling towards a recession under Donald Trump. Now, that brings me great pain. I know that every time this comes up, I get emails, David, you looked gleeful as you were seeing the billionaire predict their recession. Now, it would be, forget about the fact that I care about other people, which I know is a foreign concept in maga politics.

I do care about other people. I also care about myself. And as I am invested in the market, broadly speaking, not about individual stocks, but just broadly, you think I want to see a decline in the stock market? such that my own mutual funds and all of it and index funds are just going to go down in value. Of course not. Of course I don't want to see that. What I am fascinated by is how people keep falling for the idea that Donald Trump is a good

steward of the economy because he what? I mean, at the end of the day, what did Trump really do? He's a good businessman. If he had just taken his inheritance and put it in index funds, he'd be wealthier than he is after doing all of the business things that he has done. So that's my personal view. I take no joy in the future financial hardships that might affect me or anyone else. Now putting that aside, this is a pretty significant political problem for Donald Trump,

because Trump has built his entire brand around the idea that he is the guy who fixes the economy. He's the businessman. He's the deal maker. He's the guy who's supposed to make everything go up. And when people in friendly territory start saying, you know, I'm relatively sure we're heading towards a recession, you're cutting directly at the core pitch of Donald Trump. Now, to be fair, there's always someone predicting a recession. And in fact, since 2014, since the last recession, but acutely since 2014, someone has been

saying this is the year. In the next year, we're going to have a recession. There were people convinced it would be 2016 and then 2017, 2018. We did have a pullback, a COVID related pullback that was that was global. Of course, in 2020, eventually someone will be right. If you're always predicting a recession, eventually you will be right. That's not really the point here. The point is where this is being said and who is saying it as a contrasting backdrop to,

I'm the president who knows the most about the economy and will keep it running smoothly and will fix every problem, which has been the pitch from Donald Trump. Now, when the warnings about recessions start showing up on Fox, it usually means the concern is spreading beyond just the usual critics. And once that happens, it does become difficult to contain the narrative. When people see, by the way, I haven't even even checked in. We've got to update our gas price. 399.

Okay. So as gas prices are 399. The average person who drives a gas powered vehicle notices that daily. That's like a daily reminder of something that's happening in the economy. And most people, when they think, why are gas prices suddenly $3.99 instead of $273 like they were nine weeks ago, most people understand why. And it is not because of something Joe Biden did. It's not because of something Obama did.

Obama. It's because of Donald Trump's choice to start an option. war in Iran. But then in comes Trump and incomes everybody else and they go, it's temporary and it could have been worse and there's a greater good and it's all going to go down. But then you start hearing from people like Leon Cooperman. And then you turn on Fox News or Fox business where you're usually given good news about the economy when a Republican is president and they're saying the exact same thing. It becomes more difficult to dismiss these concerns when they are coming from allies. And that's where you start to see this shift. Now, we've talked before about

voting issues versus non-voting issues. For example, to a great degree talking about guns in national elections is not a strong issue for Democrats. Anybody who wants more gun safety regulations is probably already voting for Democrats. And talking about gun safety regulations often activates pro-gun right-wingers who will now be much more motivated to come out and vote against you if that's what you're talking about. So there's a strategy behind that. When we think about the economy, it is a voting issue. We know that time and again, it's so cliche, it's the economy stupid, the James Carville quote from the 90s, to a great degree, the economy is a great motivating factor, especially if people perceive that the economy is not going well, especially if people perceive that those on the

ballot are responsible for the economy not going particularly well. So my expectation, my belief, my prediction is that if things stay the way they are, the results for Republicans, especially in the House, are going to be far worse than they expect. Now, the Senate, it's sort of 50-50, 50-2-48 right now. Republicans do have some seats they can lose. And remember, even a 50-50 Senate means Republican control because the vice president J.D. Vance gets the tie-breaking vote in the case of a 50-50 situation. But I expect that if the economy is roughly the way it is right now, Republicans end up getting the very short end of the stick and losing a ton of seats in the House of Representatives. And by the way, because we also go beyond the politics, we go to the the personal here.

It will be terrible for a lot of people. Donald Trump gave a speech to Republican congressional members at a fundraising dinner. And this was not a good idea. This is deranged even for Donald Trump as Republican allies in the room were seen. stunned into silence at a lot of points because of Donald Trump's incoherence, his speaking ability clearly, rapidly deteriorating, and Trump's brain accused of breaking mid-speech, if you can believe it. Here is Trump whining about how during the state of the union, the Democrats sat there motionless, no clapping, blah, blah, blah. But the Republicans did a good job.

of clapping like train seals. My words, not his. The Congressional Medal of Honor, 100 years old, and the Democrats sat there, emotional is no clapping, nobody standing. Republicans, you did very well. You were going wild for all of them. Now, at the end of the evening, they were clapping on everything I said because they were called in by people watching on television. Did you see they were passing around notes and they were saying, you guys are being killed tonight. Start clapping. And they were clapping for everything. Everything I said, even good Republican things, they were clapping wildly. But it was too late. They have no heart. And now you see what they're doing. They're just

This goes to the brittle and dark core of who Trump is and what Trump represents. Why weren't they clapping for me? The Republicans, knew the assignment, they knew the applause lines and they sat there clapping like train seals every time they perceived I wanted applause. Why couldn't Democrats do the same thing? Now another topic that does seem to really be a problem for Trump's big a brain is that depending on whether it's convenient, Trump says we are in a war or we're not in a war. If he wants to be the big boy war president, then it is a war.

If he wants to argue that it was urgent and he didn't need nor should he have sought congressional authorization, he says, well, then it's not a war. It's a military operation. And Trump acknowledges during this weird speech to Republicans that there are people who don't like the word war. Yes, because of something called the law. But they're doing it for two reasons. Number one is they want to deflect from all of the tremendous success that we're having in this

Military operation. I won't use the word war because they say, if you use the word war, that's maybe not a good thing to do. Oh. It's not that it's not good. It might suggest that this war is illegal, which is a little problem. Like the word war because you're supposed to get approval. So I'll use the word military operation, which is really what it is. It's called a military decimation. But they don't like the good publicity. They don't like to see us succeed. They want to see our country fail. Yeah, you know, I have not seen a single person in the United States genuinely concerned about the war in Iran because they want to see the United States fail. In fact, when you say, hey, I don't know that these troop deaths are a worthwhile sacrifice for this deranged and hairbrained escapade in Iran. That's not

because you want to see the country fail. It's because you want to see it succeed. And you don't want to see the country send people to their pointless deaths for a project that don't Donald Trump dreamed up. Trump making a really weird statement about Iran's desire to make a deal. And I'm trying to read between the lines. I think Trump is saying here that they'll be killed either way. You'll see what I mean when you listen to this clip. Like we're doing in the Middle East with Iran.

And they are negotiating, by the way. And they want to make a deal so badly. But they're afraid to say it because they figure they'll be killed by their own people. also afraid they'll be killed by us. It has never been ahead of a country that wanted that job less than being the head of Iran. It sort of sounds like Trump is saying they might be killed either way. If you if you buy into this just totally whacked out logic from a guy who knows nothing, it sounds like Trump is kind of saying the people we're dealing with might be killed either way. Well, that's not a very good incentive to make a deal, is it? That doesn't really sound like it.

Beyond parody in a Kafkaesque moment, Donald Trump says he hates mail in ballots just days after voting by mail. You can't make this stuff up. I hate mail in ballots. I've won with mail and ballots, but I hate mail in ballots because basically it's a way of cheating. It's a way of cheating. By the way, I just voted by mail last week, hilariously or actually this week, sorry, two days ago. hilariously in an election for his home district that was flipped from a Republican to a Democrat, which we covered yesterday. Trump absent of any substance goes back to the greatest hits. We settled eight wars. But I do. We did a lot. We settled eight wars. People sort of forget and we're not that we forget. It's just not true.

winning another one. I tell you, we're winning so big. Nobody's ever seen anything like we're doing in the Middle East with Iran. Okay. So now it is a war. Understand that in if Trump wants a list of wars he won or ended, we are in a war in Iran. If Trump wants to argue that it was urgent and he couldn't pause even a second to get congressional authorization, well, then it's not a war. It's merely a special military operation or whatever it is. Now, I know some of you are wondering, Is Trump covered in baby oil during this speech because he is so shiny. And the answer is he is not. He's just soaking wet and as usual extremely swollen and orange.

Final clip. Donald Trump's perfect brain forgets TSA and he refers to them as the other as the other people that ice is at the airport's trying to help. The other people. You know what's happened? And they didn't need any rehabilitation, but they did in terms of the fake news. And they're doing such an unbelievable job at the airports that they had one line. It was four hours yesterday. And today was a half an hour.

Big, big difference. And if we have to, we're going to send in the National Guard if we need to. Now, before Trump forgets about the name of the TSA, I do want to mention they keep harping over this thing. There were long lines and then ice showed up and the lines went away. The issue that a lot of these airports are having is that all those early morning flights have people showing up before TSA is even open. And so the lines get really big.

And then by the afternoon, it's mostly resolved. I experienced this last week when flying myself. So there's sort of a just because it happened after doesn't mean it caused it. There's long lines in the morning and then they're resolved whether ice is there or not. But anyway, that doesn't matter. Here, here's Trump forgetting what the TSA is. Because we only, you know, we have 6,000 ice agents and we have 40,000 of the other people that they're helping out. So 40,000 of the other people that they are helping out. Really a guy whose brain is firing on all cylinders, isn't it? Well, you know, one guy who seemed to really

struggle with Trump's presentation to Republican members of the House is the Speaker of the House, Maga Mike Johnson. And later on in the show, we will look at the latest declarations that he made. And I will warn you, he seems to know what's coming for Republicans in November. He seems terrified about it. But he also doesn't seem to have any ideas for how to turn it around. Some people are impossible to find a gift for. Their birthday comes around. You have no idea what to get. I have the perfect solution.

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The coupon code is Trump gas. The price will update tomorrow based on tomorrow's price of gas. If you think it'll be higher tomorrow, well, today's a good day to sign up. If you think it'll be lower tomorrow, then wait a day. But that's where we are right now. Caroline Levitt is the White House Press Secretary. She reappeared and instantly collapsed in an impenetrable word salad. She was asked about a letter from our friend, Congressman Jamie Raskin.

And she delved into a wall of text in audio form orally. That's a U.R. And it made no sense. This is the press secretary, a professional at communicating. And this is the answer she gives. Look at this. As well, there's a white house have a comment on a letter that was sent from Congressman Raskin to the DOJ alleging that the DOJ recklessly released damning information in regards

to the president's document. Well, here we go. Yes, I saw that letter from Congressman Raskin this morning, who I would add has zero credibility and this letter was clearly a cheap political stunt. What the congressman did here, Brian, and for everyone in the room who's hopefully not reporting on this as fact is that he took untrue and salacious claims in a memo that was produced by Jack Smith, who has been completely discredited for his lawfare and his witch. See if you can follow the thread as the tangents come off of tangents.

come off of tangents against this president. And that information was unverified. It never even made it into the indictment because it was so unverified. And what happened to that indictment anyway? It was thrown out. And Jack Smith has been proven, again, to be a prosecutor on a witch hunt against President Trump. He tried to throw him in jail ahead of the 2024 election. The Biden Department of Justice was fully on board with this lawfare campaign. And in fact, this story that was concocted by Congressman Raskin was so ridiculous. I understand his communications team reached out to some outlets in this room who responsibly said, we're not going to write this because this is just too much.

However, of course, MS now did write that story this morning because they continue to be left-wing propaganda for the Democrat Party. But I think Jack Smith has been proven to be a liar and a fraud. And this is- This is one sentence, folks. Like I'm not literally saying there's no, there's no periods in it. But what- This is one response to Jamie Raskins. letter. And she goes into 2024 law fair Joe Biden, Jack Smith, salacious claims, memos, political stunt, Capitol Hill Democrats want to get on TV. What? What is she talking about? That should be

studied like the Zapruder film in communications courses as to how not to communicate. Now, as if that's not enough, the question of regime change came up. And Caroline Leavitt goes, listen, the regime has changed. How else can you say it? The president yesterday said that he had achieved regime change in Iran because the regime has changed in terms of. I mean, has it not? Well, the leadership. Their entire leadership has been killed.

And nobody has really seen or legitimately heard from this alleged new leader. So wouldn't you say there's been a change in the regime? You know, I was kind of thinking to myself. When the leader of North Korea, Kim Jong-il died and was replaced by Kim Jong-un, did the regime change? Would the people in North Korea say, oh, yes, there was regime change when Kim Jong-un replaced Kim Jong-il, and later Kim Jong-il-un will be replaced, I guess the rumor is by his daughter or something like that.

Is that regime change? Because if that's not regime change, the 86-year-old Ayatollon, Hola being replaced by his son doesn't sound like regime change to me either. But we're supposed to just shut up and go, yes, there's been regime change, which also wasn't the goal. But it happened. And it means we succeeded, even though it wasn't why we went in. Guys, come on.

Come on. A reporter asks a question about young voters who voted Trump because they were promised lower prices and no wars. And Caroline Levitt goes, everything Trump is doing. he's doing for young people. In my reporting, speak a lot to young voters, many of whom voted for President Trump for the first time in 2024, you're hoping to have no more wars and to have lower prices. Now, with a war taking place and with gas prices going up, here's what President Trump's

message would be to those voters who kind of swung into his coalition in 2024, but maybe don't feel the administration's going as they'd expected. President Trump is doing this for you. He's doing this for young people so that we are no longer threatened by a rogue terrorist regime in the Middle East that seeks to kill. the brave men and women who serve in our country in the Middle East, many of them, young people themselves, young men and women who serve this country honorably in uniform and have been threatened, killed in maimed by the rogue Iranian terrorist regime for 47 years.

President Trump finally had the courage to step up and do what's right by our national security, our homeland security. What is she talking about? I mean, it is incoherent. This is an incoherent form of communication. The question is, he promised no new wars and lower prices. We've got new wars and higher prices. Everything he does, he's doing it for young people.

As for the temporary short-term fluctuation in gas prices, the president has said once these combat operations are over, this administration is going to continue to unleash American energy dominance. We're continuing to do- As soon as the wars we promised wouldn't happen and the prices that went up, which we promised wouldn't happen. As soon as the wars are over, we're going to get back to lowering the prices. But for now, they're up. What? Oh, God, this is just, it is, it is indefensible at this point that the reason Caroline

Levitt's presentations are increasingly incoherent is because it is indefensible. Caroline Levitt asked about Maga Mike Johnson saying the war is wrapping up. But at the same time, the 82nd Airborne Division was just deployed to Iran. How is it wrapping up if there are new deployments? And Caroline goes, options. The president likes option. And if I may, Speaker Johnson today described the conflict as wrapping up, but the 82nd airborne division, they're typically deployed at the beginning of conflicts.

So does the White House consider this conflict as wrapping up or is it changing shape? As I said at the beginning of my remarks, we are meeting our goals of Operation Epic Fury expeditiously. The president likes to maintain options at his disposal. It's the Pentagon's job. I do if I may, Speaker Johnson. All right, none of that makes sense, Caroline. I'm so sorry. On the issue of the legality of the war, Caroline Leavitt has asked a good question, which is, is there

a point in this conflict where if it grows enough, Trump would say, all right, I definitely need congressional authorization now. And Caroline Leavitt says, well, we're already in major combat operations. So there is no such point. So she's basically saying since he didn't do it to begin with, he's never going to do it, no matter whether he should or should. Two questions for you. First, if the Warren, Iran continues past this current round of peace talks and with thousands

of troops on their way to the Middle East, is there a point, either a number of ground troops or a number of days at which the president will consider seeking authorization from Congress? Well, as you know right now, that formal authorization from Congress is not necessary because we're currently in major combat operations in Iran. The Department of War and the president, as I said, estimated about a four to six week timeline for the full completion of these military combat operations. Which, by the way, means we have zero to two weeks left in that period. Again, on day 25 today.

And as a courtesy, nevertheless, the administration did notify Congress, the gang of eight ahead of the launch of the operation 25 days ago. And we've also had our top national security officials go to Capitol Hill to brief. So listen, she's basically saying we told eight people. We told eight people. So that's good. But if Trump did need the authorization before, that ship has sailed because now we're at war. And you're not going to go and get congressional congressional authorization for a war that has already started, are you?

It's just incredible logic. It's incredible. It's backwards because he already failed to get the authorization he should have gotten. Now he's definitely not going to go get it. It's too late. We're at war now. Caroline Leavitt, the best White House press secretary ever or the worst. I guess it depends on your perspective.

Pete Hegseth's pastor. I know I know that that's a crazy phrase to begin with. Pete Hegseth's spiritual advisor and pastor is praying for the death of Democratic Senate candidate James Talariko. They want him dead. They want him crucified, not metaphorically. They don't want him proverbially or metaphorically. politically,

dead. They want him dead. They are praying to God that he kills James Talariko. This came from a podcast appearance involving Brooks Potager, not a random fringe guy, but the spiritual advisor slash pastor to Pete Hagseth. Here's what he had to say about Talariko, who recently won a Senate primary against Jasmine Crockett in Texas. We're talking about that.

And so I say, even in the debate, I think you might have seen it. that I had on campus the other day. I pray that God kills him. Ultimately, that means killing his heart and raising him up to new life in Christ. That's the first thing. We want him crucified with Christ. That's exactly right.

I want him to be, I think, Saul of Tarsis. Isn't that nice? Talarico of Tarsus. Yes, that's what I want. Who would say, I was holding the garments while they stone Stephen, and now I'm the, yeah, that's what we want. Yes, we want death and new life, right?

And if it would not be within God's will to do so, stop him by any means necessary. Oh, God. Right. Wow. The complete and total dehumanization of your enemies. These guys are dangerous. Okay. If you look at history, you don't have to look very deeply.

If you just take a casual once over of history, you see that when they start dehumanizing their adversaries, things get very ugly, very quickly. Now, what is fascinating is to look at. at the response from James Talariko, who again recently won his Democratic primary and will be facing off against whoever wins the Republican runoff in Texas. Talariko might have been expected to respond with threats, but Tala Rico is not really a threats kind of guy. You might have said, well, I'm sure Talariko responded to these clowns with insults, right? I mean, they are clowns after all. Nope, Tala Rico is not an insults guy either.

James Talariko's response was that he still loves them. In fact, he said on Twitter, Quote, Jesus loves Christian nationalism kills. You may pray for my death pastor, but I still love you. I love you more than you could ever hate me. Listen, you might not like Talariko's politics. You might not like his tax policy. You might disagree with James Talariko on LGBT rights. But if you claim to be a Christian,

I don't. I'm not. If you claim to be a Christian and your options are, I pray that God kills him. Or you may be praying for my death pastor, but I still love you. Who's the real Christian there? Who's really putting forward the gospel of Jesus? Is it the one hoping for the death of others or the one spreading love? Now, I'm a cultural Jew. I'm not a Christian. Jews don't proselytize. Christians do. If Christians are proselytizing to their views, which of these views is more accurately

representative of what Jesus would have taught? And so when you frame your political adversaries as enemies or demons or people who should be killed versus you frame your adversaries as people. you disagree with, but you don't hate back. You love them as fellow humans. Which is the view that is appropriate? This from this pastor is an example of how Christianity has been perverted in the United States by these hardcore right-wing Christians. Something I've been very interested in as I've traveled to Catholic countries, like Italy or my birth country of Argentina, where a really large share of the population identifies as Catholic, is the number of people who identify as Catholic, a form of Christianity, it's a very, very high number.

And you would go, wow, these must be really right-wing places because the population is so Catholic. But they're Catholic in a different way than these American evangelical right-wing Christian nationalists. They're not dogmatic and extreme in this way. And we have, it's not unique to the United States, but it's particularly notable in the United States. In the U.S. we've had this perversion of Christianity from these Christian nationalist types, typically evangelicals, born again, et cetera, who have no issue at all praying for the deaths of other people. We've seen videos from so many churches that I've stopped covering it, where they're in the pulpit and they're saying, we must pray for the end of this person and pray for the end of

that person and this sort of sick stuff. And that's who this administration is in bed with. There's this wacky spiritual advisor to Trump, Paula White, and all of these other examples. This is relatively mainstream in the United States when it should be considered whacked out fringe stuff. Now, good for Talariko. You know, if I were Tala Rico, I don't know that I would have had the restraint that he had when these people were praying for his death. But if you want to do something about it, be aware that this is an important race in Texas. It's an uphill battle, but it's potentially winnable. And we might be able to flip a seat out of Republican hands in Texas.

So if it bothers you that Pete Hagseth's spiritual advisor is praying for the death of James Talarico, if you think James Tallerico would be a better option than John Cornyn or Ken Paxton, who are the two possible Republican nominees there, if that's your view, you can do something about it. You can donate to Talleyco in that campaign. You can phone bank. There's a lot of things you're going to be able to do as that general election gets going.

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off a pro plan. The link is in the description. It's great to welcome back to the program today. Senator Tammy Baldwin from Wisconsin. Senator, I'm so glad to have the opportunity to talk to you. And maybe you can answer what maybe are simple questions, but maybe they're not. Is your understanding right now that Donald Trump's invasion of Iran counts as a war, required congressional authorization, and thus is against the law as executed? Yes, yes, and yes. So he would have some authorities if we were under attack or under imminent threat of attack

to both our homeland or U.S. interests abroad. But that was not the case. And so this president who in his first term ripped up the Iran nuclear deal that would have stopped progress of Iran's nuclear ambitions, you know, now has entered a war of choice, which is illegal. Well, the shifting justifications have really revealed that it's not clear this is necessarily winnable as defined. And I'll kind of explain what I mean. Initially, we had the imminent nuclear threat justification. And that nobody's mentioning anymore.

Then there was regime change. Well, it's sort of like when Kim Jong-un replaces Kim Jong-il, it's hard to see that as regime change. struggle to see the Ayatollah's son taking over as regime change. So then the focus has become ballistics missiles. But the ballistics missiles, correct me if I'm wrong, did not represent the threat to the United States. Is that also your understanding? In other words, it undercuts the imminence argument. Absolutely. They had short range and medium range ballistic missile capabilities, and none of those could reach U.S. soil. But I want to mention that you missed one justification.

It was the first one that I ever heard from Donald Trump, and that was when Iranian citizens were protesting the regime, primarily because of such a lousy economy and people not having opportunities to get ahead. And that was the first time I heard Donald Trump saying, we might take military action to help those Iranian citizens. And then even early in the prosecution of this war, this illegal war of choice. He said, I've given you the opportunity. I've gotten rid of the Ayatollah.

Rise up and take your country back. So that was sprinkled in among the many reasons that he said he was taking military action. I think my audience is quite frustrated, to put it lightly, with the improbable reality of holding the president a accountable for this. And you know, if Democrats take the House in November, yeah, he may get impeached. He won't be convicted because I don't think the numbers will be there in the Senate. Criminal, it just doesn't seem likely. I mean, what what levers are there, if any, to actually seek accountability here? You know, what I want to do is end the war. It's illegal. It's a war of choice. And there I feel like we have a little more power, but one of the things that has to happen is that we have to have hearings.

Now, some people say, well, how does that help? Yeah. Right now, this administration has only provided classified briefings to members of Congress about this war, meaning we exit that room and can't say a thing about what we've been briefed on. They need to come public. They need to come and have Secretary Hegsa and Secretary Rubio answer questions under oath in public. What does that do? That informs the American people.

It shows that they didn't have, they weren't facing an imminent threat. It shows that we were not under attack. It shows that there has been a moving explanation for why we're there. It shows that they have no exit plan. And then the people can voice their views on this war. But without any information, that's really hard for the American people to do what they need to do in protest of this. illegal war of choice. And so they have to stop acting in secret.

What I've done, I may be getting ahead of myself here, but along with a number of my Democratic colleagues, we've introduced what are called war powers resolutions. Each of us have introduced slightly different ones, so we're not just bringing the same thing up over and over again. But we've been demanding votes. So basically, we're going to put everyone on record unless you agree to bring Secretary Hegsa and Secretary Rubio, Department of Defense, Department of State, to the Congress in open hearings

to state your case. One of the parallel areas of concern are potential inside. trading and corrupt financial acts surrounding this. I'll give you a couple of examples. Someone who has taken control of Venezuelan oil after illegally kidnapping Nicholas Maduro would have a much more valuable asset on their hands if the price of oil spikes, which is exactly what this invasion of Iran has caused. And there is reporting that people associated with the president are now in control of those oil assets, which are worth way more and maybe profit That's number one.

Number two, there have been extraordinarily suspicious trading patterns, both in stock and oil futures and in betting markets in advance of decisions that Donald Trump has made. Like for example, Monday morning at 7.23 a.m. Donald Trump posted on truth social, hey, great news. We're making big progress. I don't have to bomb Iran's energy facilities. And we know that in the 90 minutes prior to that, large amounts of money betting on oil going down in stock. going up were traded on markets. Talk to me about how closely you and your colleagues are following that and what maybe can be done there. You know, I have seen this type of activity of, it seems to be trying to game the stock market. And I have also seen what looks like war profiteering in many ways.

But let me give you my example that was quite shocking. He announced near the end of trading one day, the war is very complete. Yes. That created some increase in stock values. And hours afterwards, he said, or maybe it was Secretary Hegseth said, tomorrow we will put, you know, send more bombs into Iran than we have at any day prior. Yes, tomorrow will be the biggest day of bombing. Exactly. So that's one of the examples I have seen. The other thing is, instead of having

experienced State Department diplomats leading the charge on negotiations in a number of these conflicts, including Iran, he has Witkoff and Kushner, who have incredible now real estate interests in the region that will be impacted by whether the region is experiencing violence or not. And so that may be indirect profiting, but he's not sending his experienced diplomats who have served and negotiated in Democratic as well as Republican administrations who have a depth of knowledge who know the people they're talking to. And he's not sending them. He's sending folks who have no experience in negotiating peace deals. Last thing I want to ask you about and it is about the negotiations. After the president said, we're making incredible progress, Iran just kind of said,

What? That's not true. We're not making any progress. Subsequently, when pressed, the administration and the president himself said, there's an intermediary that is involved in these negotiations, but I can't tell you who it is because they would get killed. What is your best sense right now as to whether these negotiations are even really taking place as described? You know, I have no insight as to who on the Iranian side is talking to who. I am only seeing what is reported. I had a briefing yesterday. It was a classified briefing, but it was not State Department folks who were present.

So when asked about negotiations, our briefers had no knowledge about who was discussing these items and what they were discussing. I did see news reported out quite recently that there were things that Trump has indicated he is demanding that are under consideration from leaders in Iran and some that have been rejected, whether that was trade of infrastructure, in the news or whether that was as a result of a discussion with an intermediary, I have no

knowledge at all. We are not getting briefed on that. That is extraordinarily disturbing. It is. It's also interesting and useful to hear that you're also not getting that information, which I think just goes to how this administration is operating. We've been speaking with Senator Tammy Baldwin, U.S. senator from Wisconsin. Always appreciate your time.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. The David Packman Show is an audience-supported program and the best, most direct way to support the show is by becoming a member at join packman.com. You'll get the daily bonus show, the daily commercial free show, and plenty of other great membership perks. Get the full experience by signing up at join packman.com. Donald Trump was up and Adam early this morning or maybe he was just up all night.

I don't know. He was stroking out on truth social as usual over things he does not understand. Now if your instinct is to think that when Trump starts posting at 6 a.m., he's woken up calmly and had his coffee and eggs with Melania and had a beautiful morning after a long night of restful sleep. Wrong. He and Melania barely speak. lives elsewhere. Trump probably spent half the night posting from his toilet and then chug two

Diet Cokes for breakfast. So then he starts posting, quote, terminate the filibuster in all capital letters. Oh boy. It's, he's starting with the get off my lawn sort of posts. So we start wondering, well, what is this about? What's the filibuster obsession with all of a sudden? Well, he posted more about it. He said, quote, Chuck Schumer, a desperate, crippled politics. who has lost control of the radical left Democrats will make a deal now because he thinks that if he doesn't, Republicans will terminate the filibuster, something which they should do whether he makes a deal or not. Clearly, Donald Trump has suddenly realized that the filibuster is unfair and it's time to start

lobbying for the greater good. Of course not. Trump wants to pass the Save America Act. That's it. That's why he wants the. filibuster gone. And here's the giveaway in another post where Trump said, quote, when is enough enough for our Republican senators? There comes a time when you must do what should have been done a long time ago and something which the lunatic Democrats will do on day one

if they ever get the chance. Terminate the filibuster and get our airports and everything else moving again. Also, add the complete all five items, save America Act items, go for the gold. All right. So let's go through this piece by piece. First of all, what is the filibuster? The filibuster lets a minority block most bills in the Senate unless 60 senators agree to move forward. It's rare that one party has 60 in the Senate. Right now, Republicans at 53, not 60. So the whole point of the filibuster, for better or worse, you might like it or not. The point of the filibuster was to require additional consensus than just a simple majority. 51 alone wouldn't be enough.

You need 60. If you get rid of the filibuster the way that Donald Trump wants, Republicans with 53 votes in the Senate, a simple majority, could just move forward. And as is always the case with Trump, this is not ideological or philosophical. It's simply what's better for me? If there's something Trump wants to get done and he doesn't have 60 votes, he goes, the filibuster sucks. We've got to get rid of it.

If there's something Democrats want to do and they want to get rid of the filibuster, Trump goes, no, the filibuster's very important. When the filibuster prevents Democrats from doing something, he likes it. When the filibuster prevents Republicans from doing something, he says it's bad. No real surprise there. This is about the Save America Act. You have to understand the various layers. of what's going on to recognize why Trump is obsessed with this. Gas prices are up 45% in nine weeks.

Iran war, 92% of Americans say we got to wind this thing down. This makes no sense. Republicans are looking at historic defeats in November in the House of Representatives, maybe in the Senate we don't know. And so Trump has now started to focus in on. We've got to pass the Save America Act. That's really what we need to do. And in the midst of this, it's let's blame Democrats for the chaos at airports, even though Republicans control everything. So now Trump comes to Trump comes up for air with this whole, we've got to take control away from radical, a few radical Democrats that are preventing us from doing things. Let us get Save America act.

He believes that if he can do that, it will rehabilitate his presidency. I don't believe it will. It's not going to pass anyway, but I don't believe that it would rehabilitate his presidency. Bonus bonkers stuff from 6 a.m. from Donald Trump on truth social where he says quote. Truth essential. NATO nations have done absolutely nothing to help with the lunatic nation, now militarily decimated, of Iran. The USA needs nothing from NATO, but never forget this very important point in time. Another thinly veiled threat to NATO.

Now, it is relatively pedantic and boring to keep a question. explaining what's going on with this. But it is important. And so I'm going to briefly do it if you will grant me a minute or two of your time. One of the things that NATO provides for is a shared defense agreement. And NATO nations agree under Article 5. If a NATO ally is attacked, we will come to their defense as a group of countries. If the United States is attacked, other NATO nations, will come and help defend us. But what Donald Trump has been loudly and erratically and disjointedly arguing for over the last several weeks is that NATO nations under Article 5 must come to the assistance of the United States in carrying out an optional war in Iran.

That's just not what NATO says. That's not what the NATO bylaws say. And so what was designed to be, hey, someone bombed the United States. NATO nations come like a phoenix rising over the horizon and help us defend ourselves. Trump is saying, well, I went into an optional war with Iran. That led to the closure of the Strait of Hormuz. The NATO allies now must come and help us reopen the Strait of Hormuz. That might be nice. It would maybe help deal with the oil price spikes. It would maybe help deal with the gas price spikes, it just isn't actually what Article 5 says. And Trump, as usual, wants it always. They're not paying enough and we might not come to their defense if they are attacked, if they don't start paying more into NATO. But here is a whole new thing that they now need to do

because I launched this hairbrained and misguided war into Iran, even though it's not actually what's in the writing. They don't do it. And Trump goes, rah, NATO nations have done nothing. Well, they have no responsibility to do anything in this particular case. I don't say that gleefully. You just should have thought about it before you started this optional war against Iran. Trump's allies are turning on him over the Iran war. Nancy Mace just came out of a House Armed Services briefing and basically said, this doesn't add up. This is fascinating.

These are her words. She says that the justification. that have been given for the war in Iran are different than what she's being told behind closed doors. She posted to Twitter, quote, the justifications presented to the American public for the war in Iran were not the same military objectives we were briefed on today in the House Armed Services Committee. This gap is deeply troubling. The longer this war continues, the faster it will lose the support of Congress and the American people. That's a Republican saying.

The longer this war goes on, the worse it's going to be. The more that people are going to be angry about this. If you were confident in this war and the reasoning for it and the ability to carry it out successfully, this is not how you talk. And what's fascinating about seeing Nancy Mace say this is that it alludes to illegality. I know that that's not the context she means it in. But you have to remember, there is a very narrow set of circumstances in which, you a president can launch a war without congressional approval. I don't believe him, but Trump has

often on cited imminence of an attack against the United States as the reason why he did this without seeking congressional approval. It's been undercut. It's been debunked. It doesn't seem true. But every single time that someone like Nancy Mays goes, we're getting different justifications here. It sounds like Trump needed congressional approval. It sounds like this war is illegal. I know it's so quaint, David. So quaint. Who cares about the legality? Okay.

Then comes the second statement from Nancy Mace on Twitter. Quote, just walked out of a House Armed Services briefing on Iran. Let me repeat. I will not support troops on the ground in Iran even more so after this briefing. These are magas and they are starting to say no to Donald Trump. Now, Marjorie Taylor Green also is distraught over what's happening in Iran from a strategy perspective. She long ago broke with Donald Trump.

She has nothing else to lose. Nancy Mace is still a Republican congresswoman, although she's now running for South Carolina governor. Let's listen to what Marjorie Taylor Green recently had to say. Oh, you were a longtime loyal supporter of President Trump. But you broke with him in part because you felt he was too focused on foreign affairs rather than the America first promises he's made on the campaign trail. As we enter day 17 of the Iran War, do you believe the president's voters can trust him?

Well, just to be clear, the president broke with me over the Epstein files. So that always has to be said. He called me a traitor because I stood with women who were raped when they were 14 and 16. But I do completely disagree where the president has led the country. You know what? It makes absolutely no sense, Pamela, going into midterm elections. Let's remove Donald Trump out of it. Let's just put any president in there.

Why would an American president lead his political party into the midterms waging a full-scale major war, completely unprovoked on Iran, on behalf of Israel, and that's the way most Americans see it. They see this is for Israel, not for America. Why would an American president do that, which is forcing gas prices to hike right here going into spring break where families are going to be driving? are going to be driving out of town, going into summer, declaring and waging a major full-scale war that seems to have no end in sight that is not de-escalating.

It's escalating every single day. And it just doesn't make sense. It just doesn't make sense. Now, I think more than likely Nancy Mason, Marjorie Taylor Green have the same view on this Iran war. The difference is Marjorie Taylor Green is now. unfettered and unburdened because she's out of the House of Representatives and she's already broken from Trump and Trump has turned on her. Nancy Mace is still a Republican and at least in theory, I'm sure she would love Trump's support

running for governor of South Carolina. Don't know if she's going to get it at this point in time. But these are the sorts of scenarios that create massive political problems for Trump. He can brush off Democrats. He can go these Democrats are weak sissies. They're partisan. They're whatever. But when it's Republicans saying the justifications don't make sense, this is terrible for our ability

to get reelected. If there's one thing politicians care about, it's which way is the wind blowing politically? They sometimes don't realize it until it's too late, but they do care about it. And so when they realize the way the political winds are blowing and they start to distance, especially on a war, it is worth paying attention to if you were Trump or if you're Republican leadership. I think Trump doesn't care right now. But Mike Maga Mike Johnson knows it's going bad. I was hoping to get to it today. We'll get to his latest statements tomorrow. But if things keep going the wrong way, these cautious statements from Nancy Mace, I'm concerned about the justifications. It will be full-blown opposition.

The levy may break and then it will be a disaster for Trump. We will talk on the bonus show about how there is division on the right over Iran. And as CPAC gathers, it's palpable. We'll talk about it. We will also see the army raising the enlistment age limit to 42 and easing marijuana rules. They want more people. And we will also see Trump mercilessly mocked again as Republicans give him a fake trophy, another BS prize. All of that and so much more on today's bonus show.

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