The David Pakman Show - It turns out one bad day really can change everything

Episode Date: July 9, 2026

-- On the Show: -- Katie Phang, independent journalist, trial lawyer, and the host of the Katie Phang News channel, joins us to discuss Epstein files litigation, recent Supreme Court justices, and much more… -- Maine Senate candidate Graham Platner drops out of the race following severe sexual assault and physical abuse allegations from his ex-girlfriend -- Donald Trump returns home on the older Air Force One after the Secret Service warns that his new Qatari aircraft lacks defense systems -- Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear demands a formal health update on Senator Mitch McConnell three weeks after the Senator's disappearance -- Donald Trump claims he won three elections, invents a $19 trillion manufacturing statistic, and publicly ruminates on his own assassination -- Donald Trump answers questions about Mitch McConnell's health and falsely claims that prescription drug prices have decreased by 600% -- A Washington park fountain project promoted by Trump is widely mocked after its renovated water system pumps muddy brown water -- On the Bonus Show: Trump asks the Supreme Court to reconsider birthright citizenship, several Republicans claim they had a 20-minute conversation with McConnell, Charlie Kirk has become a meme among young people, and much more... 🍴 Forkful: Get 50% off your 1st box + 10% off your next 3 boxes at https://davidpakman.com/forkful 💻 Sponsored by Private Internet Access: 83% OFF + 4 months free at https://www.piavpn.com/DavidP 😁 Zippix Toothpicks: Code PAKMAN saves you 10% at https://zippixtoothpicks.com -- Become a Member: https://davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe to our (FREE) Substack newsletter: https://davidpakman.substack.com -- Get David's Book: https://bit.ly/m/attention -- TDPS Subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow -- David on Bluesky: https://davidpakman.com/bluesky -- David on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow (00:00) Start (01:23) Graham Platner drops out of Senate race (09:07) Trump abandons his new Qatari plane (20:05) Kentucky Governor wants an update on McConnell (26:14) Trump claims he won three elections (37:36) Katie Phang interview (54:51) Trump dodges question on McConnell's health (1:03:12) DC fountain pumping dark brown water Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today, a Democratic Senate campaign has completely imploded after allegations forced Graham Platner out. Donald Trump's reaction tells us a lot about what we need to know. And then Donald Trump's prized new Air Force won, a gift from the Qataris, becomes a global embarrassment after Trump abandons it amid security concerns and comments about assassination, but then switches back to the plane after wasting a bunch of our taxpayer money flying around on multiple planes. We'll talk about the growing demands for proof of life for Mitch McConnell, including now from

Governor Andy Bashir, plus another strange Trump press conference where he says he was president three times, invents economic statistics out of thin air, and of course, struggles with basic questions from reporters. Finally, another Washington beautification project goes wrong as our friend Aaron Parnas discovers a code brown, as we call it in my household. refer to diaper situations as code brown with the baby, but Donald Trump now dealing with a code brown and it is becoming another symbol of a presidency defined by self-inflicted distractions. It's a big show today if they'll let us do it.

Democratic main Senate candidate Graham Plotner has ended his campaign. This is going to be one that I don't know. I think a lot of people need to hear, but we want to be careful. We want to be thoughtful. We want to be precise so that we don't have another screw up like this again. Now, Graham Platner announced that he was departing the campaign with an 11 minute video. I've got to tell you, 11 minute video to basically say this has turned into a disaster and I have to end. I don't know, guys. Graham Platner posting, my name might be on the ballot right now, but that ballot line, belongs to the people of Maine. The video along with that post starts as follows. And then

we'll talk about it. Hey, everyone. It's Cram Platner here. I think as many of you know over the past couple days, I have faced some very serious allegations. And I just want to make it clear. This is all false. The things that have been claimed did not happen. It's not real. It is placed an immense amount of weight on me as I think about what needs to happen now. Amy and I are regular people. We were not looking for this experience. We were not looking to get into politics. By the way, that's an important line because in a moment, I'll tell you that it was essentially Ivy League consultants who said, hey, let's put Graham Platner in politics. It's interesting that that is

something he says. We had no desire to run for office. I just want you to think about like what you would do as a regular person in a position where a much larger world, large forces were working against you personally to accuse you of the worst thing that a person could do and it was not remotely true. I learned about this through press inquiries. All right. I'm not going to play the whole thing for you. The 11-something minute video is out there if you're interested in it. This is sort of a strange video to me, I have to say.

Graham Platner doesn't take responsibility for anything. He foments conspiracy theories saying bigger forces are at play here. When I think the reality is this guy wasn't a good candidate. Nazi tattoo, which he, I think, was dishonest. about knowing the provenance and meaning of. And there are a number of allegations suggesting that. Eight year period during which he's posting racist and misogynistic things to Reddit, multiple allegations from women up to and including rape and taking off condoms during sex.

And I think that that's what this is really about. And I really do think the left has to learn from this. You know, it's become popular to talk about how we can't let the consultant class pick our candidates anymore. The consultant class created this campaign. Consultants from Yale literally went to Platner and said, hey, we want to run you as the working class hero. We're going to develop scripts. We've cross-referenced main donor information with populist language and we're going to do it all. We'll do it. But you don't have skeletons in your closet, right? And he said he didn't, But of course, he did.

And consultants vetted him of a disastrous vetting. I guess they call it a light vetting. And the consultants and strategists that we've been told by the left we have to be skeptical of said, hey, this is going to be the guy. And that's the way it ended up. Ivy League consultants picked Platner and we're supposed to be getting away from that. And this is where we land. Now, do I think Platner did it the stuff he's accused of?

I mean, yeah, probably like we've been talking for a decade about we believe the women. And now all of a sudden we're not supposed to. I mean, I don't know, guys. Not to mention that I think if he truly didn't do it, you stay in and fight. And I know that it said like, no, listen, when the entire, when the entire framework comes in and attacks you and you know they're going to bury you and Democrats have to pick better candidates. I think that that's what it has to be. Ex-girlfriend says he raped her. That's a recent allegation. Three ex-girlfriends say he was toxic. One said Platner removed condoms without her

consent at least six times. That same woman, Lindsay Fiffield said he twisted her arm behind her back, shoved her into a bedroom and prevented her from leaving and told her he fantasized of killing and raping people that he views as threats. The Nazi tattoo. which he said he knew nothing about, but there's conflicting information about that. The history of the racist and sexist comments for eight years. I mean, come on, guys. Now, there is one funny moment in all of this, which involves Trump. Trump asked about the platinum allegations.

And he goes, listen, a lot of women lie about this sort of stuff as he claims that like 46 women have lied about him. It's very, very sort of two on the nose. As I go up, the Democrats, Democrat, Democrat. Do you know what a Democrat? You know what Democrats? Do you think that the Democrats should be able to pick a replacement for Graham Platner? He's had all these new allegations that have come out.

Now Democrats are talking about picking a replacement for him. Should they be able to do that? They're picking what? A replacement for Graham Platner. Well, so he won the primary. And now there's these new allegations. It's very hard for them to do. And surely a question of whether or not you believe the woman.

A lot of people say big falsehoods. Shocking that Trump might not believe allegations about assault from women, right? I mean, there's only several dozen such allegations against him. So it is sort of, in my mind, there is a sort of poetry to the idea that the final defender, not this isn't the only defender, but sort of like all of a sudden, the most prominent defender of Platner against the allegations is Trump, who's had dozens of sexual assault allegations. allegations against him has been found civilly liable for sexual abuse of E. Jean Carroll and on and on and on.

So the fact that politics makes strange bedfellows, the enemy of my enemy, like whatever sort of phraseology you want to apply, Trump coming out of the woodwork to go, I don't know, a lot of women lie about this sort of stuff really says a lot. So now, unfortunately, the Democratic Party, after failed vetting and consultants pulling this guy in, is going to have to be in. situation to find a new candidate. Now, there is a silver lining here. There's a silver lining here, which is that if you look at the betting markets for what they're worth, okay, I'm not saying they're worth more or less just for what they're worth. Confidence that the eventual Democratic nominee

will defeat Susan Collins has gone up in the betting markets since Graham Platner said, I'm getting out. So if there is any silver lining, it's that maybe Susan Collins is more likely to be defeated now, but it's going to depend on who ultimately replaces Graham Platner. Donald Trump is abandoning his new plane in Europe because he's worried Iran will kill him by shooting the new plane down that he got from the Qataris, except that the last second Trump did the old reverse switcheroo. Who hasn't switched between their 747s after avoiding certain airspace? very relatable. And they did a little switcheroo in London.

So let me sort of build it all up for you. Donald Trump unveiled Qatar gave me a beautiful free plane, few hundred million in taxpayer money to retrofit it to be appropriate to be a presidential transport plane, but free plane, beautiful plane. The plane symbolizes strength and luxury and the greatness of America, even though Qatar gave us the plane. I don't know. And it has become one of the most kind of bizarre.

self-inflicted political headaches of Trump's presidency because Trump announced, I'm not going to fly home on this thing. Trump flew out to the NATO summit on the plane. But then he said, oh, I don't know about this. There are a lot of people who would like me dead in Iran. Now, officially Donald Trump said, here's what I'm going to do. I know there are a lot of our troops in Europe who really want to see this plane. Are there? I mean, I don't know. Maybe there are, Maybe there aren't, but it's sort of strange to say, we're going to send my plane to Europe just so troops can look at it. And so the plan was the new plane is going to make a stop at military bases so soldiers can look

at the plane. And I'm going to use the official previous blue 747 that is typically referred to as Air Force 1 to fly home. Now, the explanation sounded a little strange. And there is another part of the story, which is that a reporter asked Trump, does this decision on the plane have anything to do with threats from Iran because Trump mentioned a couple times during the NATO summit. You know, I've been lucky with the assassinations, but that only lasts so long. A lot of people want me dead.

So here is Donald Trump answering that question. Were you aware of any credible threat by Iran against her first one? I have a threat all the time. I'm number one on their list before you. But if I go, you go. Right? But was there a specific thing? Perhaps.

Perhaps someday want to change professions. So let's connect a few dots here. Just before this, these reports came out that the Secret Service was advising Trump don't fly on the Qatari plane now because it doesn't yet have all of the defensive capabilities of the current Air Force One fleet. And the new plane lacks some of the sophisticated missile detection systems, some of the countermeasure systems that existing presidential planes have. And maybe the new Qatari plane is better for dementia.

domestic travel, you don't necessarily want to fly out of the NATO summit from Turkey on that plane. And that really seemed to be billed as the reason. That really seemed to be the underlying reason that Donald Trump was saying, I'm not going to fly home on the new plane. He is going to go on his old plane, which is safer. Trump is worried. He's terrified Iran is going to try to knock his plane out of the sky. And ultimately, he ended up doing a switcheroo where in London,

he got back on the original plane, the Katari plane. And the video of this is truly bizarre because you see Donald Trump getting off of the blue 747 that we know of as the traditional Air Force one. Remember, Air Force one is any plane that Trump is flying on. But I think most people understand when I say Air Force one, I'm talking about one of the two blue 747s. And he comes down off of that plane. And then as we move the video forward, which I'm showing people, you see that then Donald Trump

starts walking over to the Qatari 747. What a pathetic waste of resources and taxpayer money. You know, when Trump got this airplane, of course, it goes, it's free. It's such a beautiful gift. They're being really good to me. It's beautiful. It's magnificent. It's a phenomenal plane. And then people like me who were questioning, accepting a $400 million luxury jet from Qatar. We're laughed off by MAGA. This is an incredible deal. This is saving taxpayers money.

And look at where we end up where Trump flies overseas on his new plane. And then because of fears of getting shot down and shot dead, he transfers to another plane to come home. But all of these planes were flown out and they're being flown back. We're just wasting twice the jet fuel and resources. It's crazy. And Trump is talking about, oh, I'm Iran's number one target and everything's totally normal, but like I'm going to switch planes now multiple times because of the threats against me. This is exactly why so many people warned against taking a donated plane from Qatar and making

it the presidential transport. Now, I'm sure they're going to say, you know, once we install all of the stuff on it, it's going to be just as safe and it's going to be perfect. But all of that stuff is going to be installed using my taxpayer money and your taxpayer money. Air Force One should never be the story. It's supposed to be transportation. But we have a president who's accepting planes from foreign countries, spending weeks promoting airplanes, staging unveilings, endlessly talking about how beautiful this is.

The plane is supposed to safely transport the president so that he can go and conduct the tasks of being president. And of course, Trump can't even do that. He took the new Qatari plane to the NATO summit, fell asleep multiple times, referred to President Zelensky as President Putin, said that the Islamic Republic of Japan sent 111 missiles at an aircraft carrier of ours, referred to the Obama JCPOA as the Obama JCPOC. So not only was the transportation ridiculous, what he did when there was also completely ridiculous. At the end of the day, this never should have happened. We all knew it never should have happened. Trump should say, you know, I love the generosity, but we have perfect planes. We're working with Boeing

to develop a new Air Force one, if they still are. That may have been abandoned. I'm not even sure. But we're going to stick to the planes that have not been in the hands of potentially adversarial foreign nations for years. We'll stick with our planes. Now, there's one other thing. that is catching my attention here, which is that over the last 24 hours, multiple times Trump returned to this idea that he might be assassinated. Iran wants to do it multiple times. He said, I'm Iran's number one target. I've gotten lucky with assassination a bunch of times, but that doesn't ever last forever. And I may be gone too. Threats against presidents are taken very seriously, and they should be. Every president receives threats. Security planning is a major part of the

job. They, guys, they brought personal toilets to collect Trump's feces on the trip for fear that his biological waste could be used to figure out stuff about Trump's health and what medications is he on and all this other stuff. They're taking every single kind of precaution. But when the president is regularly raising the possibility of his own assassination while changing around travel plans involving a highly publicized new aircraft from a foreign nation, this is absolutely absolutely insane. And so accepting this plane, which was, I guess, supposed to project strength or servitude to Trump, it's become a source of confusion.

And instead of proving Trump's deal-making bona fides, it just shows that Donald Trump doesn't seem to understand that everybody has figured out how to placate and manipulate Trump. And it's another distraction completely of his own making. If he had just continued flying on the existing planes until the next generation plane was ready, None of this would be happening. And now it's the story. And Trump ends up looking like the clueless guy that's easy to manipulate. Insanely stupid and painfully wasteful.

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description. It's happening. Officials are demanding proof of life from Mitch McConnell. They're finally doing what so obviously needs to be done. Let me catch you up. We have been covering. this for weeks now and it's been a very simple question. Where is Mitch McConnell? Senator Mitch McConnell is still a sitting U.S. Senator. He holds one of 100 seats in the Senate. He's one of the most powerful people in the country. He chairs the key appropriation subcommittee and he has now been hospitalized for nearly a month while the public has gotten no meaningful information beyond he's recovering. He's working with staff. And over the last four, 48 hours, partially because of my reporting, a bunch of people have come out and said, I spoke

to him for 20 minutes, 20 minutes, 20 minutes. And this just isn't enough. And we now finally have someone in elected office of an important person to Mitch McConnell saying we need proof of life. Kentucky governor, Andy Bashir, who's been on this show. I've been on his show. He's a good guy, straight shooter. Andy Bashir has now demanded that Mitch McConnell provide an update on his condition.

He put out the following letter. Dear Senator McConnell, over the last several weeks, Kentuckians have grown increasingly concerned about the current state of your health and well-being and ability to hold office in the United States Senate. As governor, I request that you fully update Kentuckians regarding the current status of your health. As public office holders, we have made a commitment to our constituents to do our best to represent them and to always be transparent. I believe this requires clear communication about one's ability to serve.

We wish you a safe and speedy recovery. Sincerely, Governor Andy Bashir. The reality right now is that we do not know whether he is alive. And we do not know whether he is. Some have used the phrase on life support. Some have used the phrase brain dead and some have used the phrase unconscious. We have a source that communicated to us that Mitch McConnell has been unconscious since he went to the hospital. One of the most powerful legislative bodies in the world is functioning with a member who has effectively

disappeared from public view. Republicans hold a small majority in the Senate. Every single one of these votes matters. The defense appropriation subcommittee that McConnell chairs is extraordinarily important. The absence of Mitch McConnell could affect nominations and legislation and funding votes. So this is not a private citizen taking medical leave from work. This is a constitutional office. Millions of Kentuckians have two senators representing them and one of them's been missing for almost a month. Now, here's where the story I think gets even more consequential. So if Mitch McConnell resigns and if he's unconscious, he can't resign, right? If he resigns or if it is determined he's no longer able to serve or whatever happens.

The process for replacing him is kind of a mess because Kentucky Republicans change the law to prevent Democratic governor Andy Bashir from appointing a temporary replacement for a senator. And instead, the law says you have to have a special election. But there's a bunch of legal experts who now say that law may be unconstitutional and in and of itself could trigger a lengthy court battle. So imagine the possibilities. A special election, a court fight, a vacant Senate seat, questions about who really has the authority to fill it.

This was like hypothetical, I guess, two years ago. But it's a very real question right now because it's increasingly seeming like Mitch McConnell cannot return. I all we can do is speak statistically. If an 80 forget about unconscious, okay, if an 84 year old senator who is in precarious health, we know that because he was already hospitalized this year. He's fallen. He's frozen.

All that stuff. If he is in the hospital for a month, statistically, how many 84 year olds return to the demand's equivalent to that of a U.S. senator after a month of hospitalization. It's an infinitesimal number. And so the silence around this is completely impossible to justify. Nobody is asking for his complete medical chart. We don't need every lab result. We don't need transcripts of conversations with physicians. And we don't even know if he's capable of having conversations. It's just a really simple question. Is he alive? Is he conscious? Is he capable of serving? Is it reasonable to expect that he's going to come

back, what's the general nature of his condition? So, United States Senator, his vote could determine the outcome on foreign policy, domestic policy, all this stuff. I think Governor Bashir deserves credit because relatively few elected officials have been willing to do this. Where are the other senators? Where are the Democrats? Where are Republicans even on this? Every single other senator in that legislative body should be saying the same thing. And if the roles were reversed, if a Democratic senator disappeared into a hospital for almost a month with no substantive updates and only all of a sudden after 24 days and some reporting that goes, this guy might be, might be unconscious.

A few Democrats came out and went, oh, I spoke to him for 20 minutes. Would anyone accept that? And would Republicans go, let's just wait. Let's give them more time. Of course not. They would be demanding answers every single day. That's what needs to happen here. And this is really not about political party.

This is really not about shaming people or salacious reporting about health or anything like that. This is one of 100 U.S. senators. So we deserve the answers. Andy Bashir is looking for the answers. We will see if he gets them. Donald Trump stunned reporters at the wrap up to this NATO summit. saying that he has been president three times. Something is wrong with this guy.

And it is time for it to be the primary topic of conversation around this presidency. Here is Donald Trump saying, I got to be president three times. You did? I didn't think that happened. And I didn't think that was legal. And look at Hegseth and Rubio and Bessent standing there with their condescending looks. Dear God, an oiled glut right now because we got all those votes out of the straight and it's going to drop and I've predicted everything.

I've been right about everything and I have been for a long time. That's how I got to be president three times. It's how we won three elections. I did very well in the second one, won it. The rigged election, but I've been right and an oiled, right. What on earth is this guy talking about? Non-compost mentis is not a joke, folks. He doesn't have the cognitive fitness to do this job.

If this is the number one way to evaluate candidates or presidents, which they said it was when Joe Biden was the president, how can we not say that this is a red alert moment? I was president three times. Yesterday, he said that the Islamic Republic of Japan sent 111 missiles at an American aircraft carrier. He said to President Zelensky, President Putin, multiple times. But remember, once Joe Biden looked off stage and it didn't look like anybody was there. And then Jake Tapper wrote a book about it. Come on, guys.

Come on. Donald Trump says that he's brought in $19 trillion in investments. $19 trillion. One and a half years. Those numbers won't come out for a little while. So we've have 19.2 trillion, not billion, not million, trillion with a T invested in plants and equipment that's being built all over the country. I'd go further.

He's got cajillion, cajillion dollars. This is a completely made up number. It's a completely made up number. And one of the things that is really weird, I guess, or, you know, I don't even know the right word to apply to it. that if you know anything at all about the American economy, you know that this isn't possible. The GDP of the United States is $32 trillion. Donald Trump wants us to believe that he has brought in $19 trillion, some 60% of the entire GDP.

It doesn't make any sense that would put our GDP above $50 trillion. And it's not. GDP has just been slightly up and down. It's you have to believe that the money came in but is somehow completely invisible. visible. Donald Trump is asked about the war with Iran. And the question is premised on the idea that the war with Iran seems to be starting again. And Trump goes, no, it's not going to start again. It's going to go very quickly. But if it's not starting again, what is there that would go very quickly? It doesn't make any sense.

Media, Tunja, Turkey. Mr. President, it seems that the war with Iran may start again. What do you expect from your European allies? I don't think it's going to start again. I think it's going to go very quickly. They hit a couple of ships. And so we hit them much harder. When they hit, we hit 10 times harder. You know, we hit much harder than they do. We have a lot better equipment than they do. So it won't start again. And when it does, you will end it quickly. Got it. We may even somebody else before. Do you think you'll hit him tonight? I said, we might. Yeah, we might. But when they hit, we hit, you know, we use, we use their language. We speak their language. No, I don't think so. I think so. I think so. I think. I think anything that happens is going to be over very quickly and will only and will only make it safer, including for oil. Oil is going to be. The more bombs that fly, the safer it is. It's so safe Trump decided to abandon his new plane for fear it was going to get shot out of the sky. That's how safe it is. Be very free, very easy, and it's going to happen very fast. You know, this entire gambit is so devoid of serious geopolitical.

objectives because that nobody's even talking about the objectives anymore. If pressed, Trump will go Iran will never have a nuclear weapon. But the objectives have essentially evaporated. I'm starting to wonder like, is this blatantly a money laundering operation? Is there is some completely different? Like I know that Trump often is motivated. I want to see big and strong and for people to be scared of me and for me to be respected and all this stuff.

And as we've said before, people thinking that you're unstable and being skitt about that doesn't mean that you're respected, but put that aside, is it possible that this entire thing is just a brazen money laundering operation of some kind and that that's really what's at play? Because if we just evaluate this on the standards of geopolitical objectives, it's completely bogus. Trump asked, why aren't you flying your new plane home? Stephen Nelson from the New York Post. I'd like you to address speculation that you're leaving Ankara, not in the new Air Force One because of security concerns involving Iran. You've spoken today twice about them possibly assassinating you and possibly being successful.

Did that concern have something to do with you? Well, I speak about it a lot because, you know, the life of a president is very dangerous. It's 5.2%. You know what a raceguard driver is? One-tenth of 1%? A bull rider, that looks pretty dangerous to me. It's one-tenth of 1%. No, it's 5.2% is, you know.

You don't make it. You should have told me you're an excellent reporter. You should have told me that years ago, maybe I wouldn't have run. It's a very dangerous profession. No, I'm number one on the kill list for Iran. They're lovely people. I'm number one. So I don't know.

I can't tell you that. But I don't really care because I'm doing my job and I'm doing it. I hope better than anybody's ever done it. Because we have a country that's hot and really, really successful. But I mentioned it only because it's on the list. I mean, it came out. There was another list came out yesterday, and I'm number one on. I like being number one on TikTok better, but I'm number one on the list for killing.

Go ahead. Hey, Sean McResh, New York Times. But why aren't you flying the new plane home? Say what? Why aren't you flying on the new Air Force One home? It's flying to Europe to one of the big bases, two or three of the big bases, where we can show it to the people. Yep. Trump just wants people to see the plane.

Does anyone else see how much of a pathetic distraction this free, but not really free plane has become? Flying there on one plane, but flying both the planes there, one's empty, and then flying back on another. And then ultimately, we learned that Donald Trump switched planes in London. I mean, it's outrageous. Now, then we get to something I'm going to delve much more deeply into tomorrow. Donald Trump says he would be the greatest communist in history up there with Lenin.

You may be going to go with Lenin. Who's that? Lenin. Yeah. There's a bigger story here about Trump. communism in the country. Communism's easy to sell. I would be the greatest communist in history. I'd be right up there with Lenin. I'd be as good as anybody. You've got free rent for the rest of your life. What they don't say is that you'll be living in squalor in 12 months.

Tomorrow, I am going to talk to you about how much Trump really does love communism and he loves it. I'll explain for the second time in the day Donald Trump mused about getting assassinated. Is they're gone. Now they have another set of leaders. They may be gone. Who knows? And you know what?

I may be gone too. Because I'm their number one target. It's out all over the place. I'm their number one because they're scum. That's the way they act. And that's the way they've done it for 47 years. So they're scum and they want Trump dead. And with that, Donald Trump lumbers away from the microphone, putting the press conference

to bed not a second too soon. See you back. Thank you very much. I am ready to declare in no uncertain terms. Donald Trump should not be doing any more international trips. He can't do it. And it becomes a global embarrassment every single time that he does. Agree with me, disagree with me. Let me know in the comments. And I will remind you that limited signed copies of my forthcoming book, pay attention are available. It is almost certain that like they did with my first book, this Trump administration

is going to try to kill this second book. And I will be giving away there is one copy of the book on my shelf behind me, which you can see. This is copy number one. I will be giving away this copy to one person who preorders any version of the book. If you preorder the audio book or the Kindle book or the hardcover book, signed, not signed, no matter what. If you want this, I will dedicate it to you and also send it to you with the number one numbered copy of my first book, The Echo Machine. It'll be a package of both. I'll dedicate them to you in a beautiful love letter, like Trump likes to say.

Simply submit your pre-order screenshot to info at David Pakman.com. Somebody will get it. Lucky, unlucky depends on your perspective. If you're trying to get away from cigarettes or vaping, one of the first practical questions is what you replace them with, especially if you're not ready to eliminate nicotine immediately. Check out our sponsor, Zipix, Nicotine Toothpix. Zipix uses quality plant-derived nicotine with a very short list of ingredients. It gives you another option for managing nicotine with no smoke or vapor.

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If you're tired of cigarettes or vaping, try Zipix nicotine. toothpicks and get 10% off your first order with code Pacman at Zippix toothpicks.com. The link is in the description. You must be 21 or older to order. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Well, welcome, everybody. It's great to be speaking today with Katie Fang, who is an independent journalist, a trial lawyer, and also host of the Katie Fang News channel.

Katie, so good to talk to you. I really appreciate your time. Oh, no, David, thanks for having me. And I was saying before you and I hit that live button. It's overdue. It's long overdue for you and I hang here. Very much overdue. Very much overdue.

Tell me the transition from legacy and corporate media to independent journalism. What's the good, the bad, and the ugly? Like what's been great, but also like what are some of the differences that maybe are challenges in making the transition? I think for most people, my immediate response on. the spectrum of ugly would be kind of the lack of a consistent paycheck, right? I think a lot of us equate success professionally as I am a W-2 employee and I get a paycheck every two weeks and this is what it is. And that's good. And the predictability is very reassuring. But going to the other end of that spectrum of what is great, even though there may be this uncertainty that you don't

work for corporate media, big, you know, company anymore, I can now chase down what I think is important. And for me, I think a lot of things are important. And I have a lot of different interests. And the fact that I get to lean into all of the things I think that makes me who I am and I don't have somebody either judging it or telling me to watch your tone, which I got a lot of when I was in mainstream media, I can just be who I am. And I literally am what you see here is what you would get if you were hanging out in my living room, which happens sometimes when I do join from my home. You know, the other kind of cool thing is that, especially here at Substack, there's no judgment, right? Like, we come, we hang out, we talk, we share our thoughts, not always agreeing.

It sounds like a family, in my opinion. It sounds like Thanksgiving dinner. And so I love that because I'm also learning so much from other people in being able to do stuff on an independent media platform. And then I think the final part of my answer is I would never have been able to sue Todd Blanche if I have still been in my traditional role in mainstream media. And so that really is the most kind of freeing option to be able to chase down, again, the things that I think are incredibly important for not only me, but for the public at large. One of the things you've spent time investigating and reporting on is the Epstein files. And I was reading, I don't remember if it was one of your substack posts or maybe it was an interview did where you said that you believe even the redactions from the most recent slate of files, that those redactions shouldn't have been done, that those are illegally done and they're not in compliance with the Epstein Files Transparency Act. Can you explain why that's your belief? Because we cannot believe, which is just galling in and of itself, our Department of Justice anymore.

Any presumption of regularity, which is a phrase you hear often used by me and other lawyers and legal analysts, especially, you know, when we have discussions about what is happening in our country right now, there used to be a time when, frankly, any lawyer understanding what their oath is and what their professional responsibilities and their ethical duties are, if they said something, you would presume that that was accurate and true. But we know that the Department of Justice has been weaponized. in a way to serve only one client, and that's not the United States and its people, it's Donald Trump. So anything that has been released by the DOJ empirically has been shown to either been done improperly or illegally. And part of my lawsuit is a special master appointment. Why? Because we need somebody who can actually call balls and strikes here and can actually hold to account the Department of Justice when they make a representation. It's not for me to litmus test the truth, it's for a special master to come in, especially because a judge is never going to have a time to go through all of the documentation, but a special master could. And they've used special masters

in those capacities before with voluminous documents in big cases. And the same thing would apply here. A representation is made by the Department of Justice. A special master would sit there and in the privacy of that special master's, you know, world, they would test that credibility by determining whether or not it was supposed to be redacted or not, and then they would make a report and finding to the court. And it's amazing because I've been telling people, David, I only want the Department of Justice to follow the law. I'm not asking for anything more than that.

And I'm also not going to take anything less because you and I have to follow the law. So why shouldn't the Department of Justice, specifically Todd Blanche, have to do the same? Is there any justification for redacting names of alleged perpetrators? because my reading of the legislation was redactions to protect the identity of victims. But I didn't see anything in there about protecting alleged perpetrators, even if it's some of these documents are really just allegations. It's authorities interviewed someone. Someone said something. There's the yacht story from off of Lake Michigan.

There's the nipple story. These are allegations. But I didn't see anything in the legislation that said that the names of potential or alleged. perpetrators can be redacted. Would there be any legal basis for that part? No. In fact, in the Epstein Files Transparency Act, it explicitly does not allow to spare somebody from public humiliation or embarrassment just because their name appears. And let me be clear, there are some pretty wild and outrageous allegations that are currently existing in the version of the DOJ files that have been released so far. My job is not to be law enforcement. In fact, the FBI and the DOJ and other various law enforcement agencies have failed victims and survivors over the span of decades when it comes to this particular issue. But no, I'm not here to be judged jury and executioner. I'm just here to say, let it all out and let other people either chase investigative leads, including law enforcement if they're not time barred anymore, or let people in the public use their critical thinking skills to be able to do so.

this gray area that has now been created by the Department of Justice recently in my lawsuit in the latest response is Blanche says, I am still protecting the identities of victims and survivors in some of these redactions, and that's the reason why I'm not doing it. And there is a subset of people that are in the files about whom we already know that were either recruited, brought in, were victims, were groomed, and then they themselves became abusers, recruiters, rumors or perpetrators themselves. Again, I'm not here to judge the credibility of somebody claiming that they began their journey in Epstein's orbit as a victim. But I believe that that is what Blanche is hiding behind. And so I don't want to impute any nobility or integrity to what Blanche is doing here. I just think he's looking for a convenient scapegoat kind of label he can tack on to this stuff as an excuse as to why he's not turning things over. One of the things we've seen is that since the start of the Iran war, the search interest in Epstein stuff has just declined. And people can

verify this on their own. You can go to Google trends and type in Epstein, Epstein files. You'll see it for yourself. I don't think that that was a calculation. I don't think Trump said, hey, I want to take attention off of Epstein. Let me start a war. I think his reasons for starting the war were terrible, but they were different. One of the things I'm wondering, though, is do you think that what needs to happen for the Epstein files to be back in the news the way they were, I guess is my question, because at this point, I don't think that if the Iran war does wind down all of a sudden, that the Epstein files come back as a point of central interest. I think that it is diminished for a number of reasons. What would it take to bring it back? Well, I think Trump is a beneficiary,

though, of our attention being distracted from the Epstein files. And I have said repeatedly that I think the Epstein files themselves are the Achilles' heel for Donald Trump and much of this administration. It is my pursuit of always having it be top of public discourse. And the reason isn't the horrific nature or any type of kind of seedy nature of what we're reading and what we're learning as we learn more. It speaks to the bigger picture of corruption, and it speaks to the bigger picture of inequity and inequality and a phrase that's elite impunity is one that I've kind of like, you know, latched on to recently. This double standard that applies that is a huge kind of brand for the current administration. And it's something that we've seen happen historically,

but I think the people have now said, we don't want to deal with this anymore. We actually want to make sure that right means right because it's been perverted along the way. And so part of what we do is I, at least, always continue to amplify the stories of survivors and victims, and not even just in the Epstein orbit, people that have been victims of sex trafficking or any other type of abuse. I also believe that my lawsuit has always been garnering and continues to garner attention because I'm not suing Trump and I'm not suing the Department of Justice. I'm suing a man called Todd Blanche, who next week is going to go before Senate judiciary because he wants the permanent job of being the most peasant. powerful law enforcement officer in our country. You know, it's, what's important for people to remember is Donald Trump can be a horrible person in and of himself, but he cannot go and investigate somebody. He has to weaponize the Department of Justice and perhaps arms like the FBI and others to be able to do so.

That's why he needs somebody like Todd Blanche. So the more that we talk about the weaponization of a federal agency and the risk of putting it in the hands of someone like Todd Blanche, and the more that I can talk about why that he doesn't have the integrity to be able to run that federal agency, especially when consider what he's done with the Epstein files, we can always kind of make it come home to roost on the central concepts of corruption and power and quality. What do you make of the current state of the Supreme Court in the middle of all of this? Because in the aftermath of the decisions last week, there were some decisions that I guess you could say I as a layperson agree with and some decisions that I disagree with, fine.

But even in the ones that I guess you could say went my way, the fact that there are justices willing to, for example, say, no, Trump can completely change the meaning of the 14th Amendment, for example. Like the right decision ultimately was reached. But there are these three justices, potentially four on different grounds, if you can include Roberts, who would have been happy to say, yeah, one of the pillars that this country was built on, we're happy to just kind of let Trump. overturn it, that to me seems like a massive red alert here. I'm going to go even farther back in the kind of process and history here and say this. Birthright citizenship never should have been taken up by the Supreme Court in the first instance. And their willingness to take up that type of case shows that there's something deeply, deeply flawed about this current iteration of the Supreme Court of the United States. And the fact that you do have some justices that are like, yeah, maybe we can flirt.

with this idea now of doing away with an amendment that guarantees birthright citizenship. That is galling and yet not surprising, considering the kind of downward spiral we've seen coming from these decisions. I had an incredible conversation with former commissioner of the FTC Rebecca Slaughter. And we were trying to reconcile and talk about how, you know, you can keep Lisa Cook's job on the Federal Reserve, at least for now, right? But you can jettison Rebecca a slaughter on the FTC. And really, it's the almighty dollar that is making the world go around, and Federal Reserve is a lot more important than the FTC, although the FTC also deals with consumer protection and other things that deal with Americans at large. And I think to myself

that there has been a run made on SCOTUS for powers that are like the Federalist Society, that are Leonard Leo, that are Project 2025. And they have been making all these emergency applications to the Supreme Court at numbers that have never been seen before because they know that they have right kind of for the picking justices that have been waiting, waiting in the wings for these types of cases to be teed up for them, which is just kind of the culmination, I think, of decades of long-term planning on the other side. And that's why I always tell people things like the, you know, the overturning of Roe v. Wade through Dobbs was a slow train of coming. It was not something that just happened overnight. And the erosion of the...

civil rights when it comes to voting, when it comes to other incredibly important civil rights issues, we shouldn't be surprised because they have been chipping away at it for years. So it ultimately boils down to voting has consequences. If you're not in a position to make an appointment of the Supreme Court justice because you never got elected into that office, great, then we're in a better place. If you're not able to sit there and be elected to the Senate and sit on the Senate Judiciary Committee and get judges through and then do successful things like Mitch McConnell, who's still MIA, right? Like, if you're not able to do that

because you never got elected to be a United States senator, then we're in a better place. So I think we always need to be mindful of how we got here. And that is why I look back and I say, they never had to take this case. SCOTUS never had to take birthright

citizen up, but they did. And like I said, they're laying in wait for these types of cases to percolate to the top. And I hope that, like, I've been trying to speak with my audience in a way that's not about

admonishing people or shaming people, but just understanding that we would have Roe v. Wade if Hillary Clinton had won in 2016. And there were people who would write to me and who would go, yeah, you know, Hillary and Trump, they're kind of part of the same elite circles and I don't really think they're that different. And maybe I'll vote, but maybe I'll stay home or I'll write in someone or whatever. We would have Roe v. Wade right now. We would have a stronger voting rights act right now if Hillary Clinton had been president. It doesn't mean that Hillary Clinton is God's gift to progressivism. or she would have been perfect or anything like that. But the elections have consequences thing.

We have to remember. And this was a long time in the making. We knew they were going to go in this direction. And Trump got his three picks and they did. So I think we should remember that as we think about 2028. Yeah. And listen, voter complacency, it's not a new concept. I mean, people always find an excuse as to why they won't be activated and engaged.

But I think the good news is people have realized they don't have. to take it. And part of change comes from learning more and being more active. And I think people are embracing that. And however you define your, you know, active engagement, I don't know if you right. Not everybody goes out in the street and protests. That may not be your jam. But I do think people are caring a lot too, because I spend a lot of time on my channel talking about local and state politics because, yeah, federal politics are important. But what impacts you on the daily basis is whether or not that pothole gets fixed in front of your house. And whether your kid gets to go to a school where my kid in public school down in Florida,

I had to sign a permission slip for her to go to the Scholastic Book Fair because they didn't want to have liability at the Scholastic Book Fair if my kid was, quote, exposed to something like, I don't know, a woke, woke literature. Like, the school boards are dealing with that. The people that are elected as governors are dealing with that. Your attorney general, if you're in California, you got Rob Bonta. If you're in Oregon, you got Dan Rayfield.

You got people that are fighting for you as an attorney general, regardless of what your party affiliation is. So I am telling people you should pay attention to the stuff that impacts you. And it doesn't mean that you have to take on 20 different causes. Find one that you really care about and lean into it. And you'd be surprised how many more people are also like-minded. And they share your fears. They share your dreams. They share your anxiety.

But they also share your drive to make a difference. And I feel like we're really showing that now. And I find that to be the cool, refreshing part of what we're doing now. Katie, thanks so much for talking to me. Make sure to check out Katie Fang on Substack, Katie Fang News Channel. Let's definitely do this again. Of course. Thanks for having me.

It was so good to see everybody. Thank you. Take care. Thanks, everybody. The David Packman Show is an audience supported program. And the best most direct way to support the show is by becoming a member. at join packman.com. You'll get the daily bonus show, the daily commercial free show, and plenty of other great membership perks. Get the full experience by signing up at join packman.com.

You might remember that yesterday morning, Donald Trump said negotiations with Iran are done. There's no deal. The ceasefire is done. They don't want to make a deal. They're scum. They're cuckoo. It's all over. And then Donald Trump. Trump gets on one of his planes. It's hard to keep track of which at this point. And he goes, oh, Iran just called. They want to make a deal really badly. Do they?

Because you just said they don't. And you just said there's no more negotiations. And you said blah, blah, blah. But oh, no, no, no. They want to make a deal. We have many ways we can win. But we've already won militarily. They have very little left.

And they want to make a deal so badly. They called a little while ago. They want to make a deal so badly. I just don't know if they're worthy of making it. I don't know that they're going to honor the deal. That's the wrong. If they want to make a deal, why do you think they attacked commercial vessels? Because it's not crazy to be honest. They're a little bit out of control, but they want to make a deal.

So within about a six hour period of time, Trump goes, these people can never be trusted to make any deals ever and it's done. and their cuckoo and their scum and it's over to these people are so done i could get a deal today if i wanted one but now i don't know if iran is worthy of making a deal these are all lies i hope people understand that this is all trump shooting from the hip now there was a really interesting moment really interesting where in the midst of this nearly month long absence from mitch mccanell who's allegedly brain dead on life support unconscious and has been for three almost four weeks and isn't going to recover. That's one set of data. Trump is asked, have you spoken to him? And he goes, no. Oh, do you know anything about how he's doing? And Trump goes, I have no idea. Now, this was interpreted

two different ways. Let's play it. And then I'll give you my interpretation. Yes, so do you're a little bit out of control, but they want to make it do badly. I have you spoken to Senator Wigginswich McConnell's in the top of the situation. No, I have no idea. I have no idea I was doing. At the beginning of, at the beginning of, before this, before the data. I, um, some people are interpreting Trump saying I have no idea how he's doing as Trump really doesn't know and he definitely doesn't care.

That's not my interpretation. I think Trump knows how much McConnell is doing. It's very difficult for me to imagine that a senator of Trump's own party, formerly the majority leader, one of the most powerful senators that there is, I struggle to believe Trump has no idea how he's doing. I think Trump knows and Trump knows it's very bad, but he knows that he can't just come out and say that because if he were to come out and say that all of a sudden it would trigger all sorts of other problems, including, of course, that now what happens with Mitch McConnell becomes an immediate question. It becomes a political question, a legislative question, a Kentucky law question. Trump doesn't want that because I don't know a thing

about it. Donald Trump with his very shaky math once again saying he has not he's going to. He already has brought prescription drugs down 400%. 500%. 600%. The pharmacy now pays us to take the medication. if you can believe it. It hasn't gotten a lot of attention. Starting on July 1st, Medicare is now covering GOP 1 drugs. Way boss only. It's the first time it's ever happened. It happened under your leadership.

How big of the deal is that people? Well, we, because of favorite nations, the drug prices have come down tremendously. And also, if you look at Trump RX, it's been unbelievable the price quest. But take a look at what we've done in terms of the favorite nations. We've paid the highest drug price in the price. drug price in the entire world, and now we pay the lowest drug price in the entire world. Do it? And that means four or five, six hundred percent difference. Think of it. The press doesn't want

to write about it. And to get that, I had to get the drug companies to do it, and they were good, but they were good because they knew that I couldn't get the countries to do it. You had to get both. And I called the countries. They said, if you don't do it, I'm going to put a very big tariff on you. That's more money. And every country agreed to it. So we went from the high end. drug prices in the world, like in New York, a pill that costs $130, and in London it costs $10. So now it costs $20 and $20 because the world is a bigger place. So it's not... You guys following this?

So we got it down and it's a great question because that should have a huge impact on healthcare because prescription drugs is a big price, but prescription drugs have come down 400 to 500 to 600% under Trump. And that alone should win us the midterms. Well, if you were paying people to take their pills, maybe that would win you the election. But of course, that's not what's happening. And prices are not down 400, 500, 600%. We're just continuing to have arithmetic problems.

We're operating on such a basic level with this president. Arithmetic problems is where we stand. Now, another big area. of cost concern. We talked about prescription drugs and his claim there is prices are down 600%. The other side is that housing costs are going down. Now you might say, wait a second. Are the housing costs going down because Trump signed that housing bill?

No, he didn't. He refused to sign it at least so far. Trump says that the reason housing costs are going down is we are sending illegals back to the Congo and Venezuela. This is not happening. housing prices are not coming down. They're actually going up. They wouldn't sell them. Any other question?

Yes, Mr. President. The federal reserve working paper came out and it suggested that the illegal migration surge under Joe Biden caused housing costs despite 30 percent. What is the lesson to be learned to do that? What's happening is housing costs are going down because and rental goes right now because we're getting so many illegals out of the country. But Joe Biden raised the cost of housing. the cost of housing by 40 and 50% the cost of rental

because they were housing illegal aliens in all of those empty units. And now they're coming down because we're removing people that are illegally criminals from the Congo, from Venezuela. We love Venezuela. We love Venezuela.

He emptied Maduro, emptied out his jails. They opened up their jails, they let them in. But many countries did that. 25 million people who had gotten I think we're getting most of the bad ones out and we start the process, but we've done very well. Unfortunately, this is all a fantasy. Housing prices are up in the United States.

And in fact, if Donald Trump was really committed to doing something about housing prices, he could have just signed into law the bill to deal with housing prices. Now, that bill is not a panacea. As I've talked about, we talked about it extensively on the bonus show. It does some good things. It lacks other stuff. And you know, it'll it, but it's something. And right now, what we have is nothing.

Nothing, nothing at all. Trump said, I'm not going to sign that unless you pass my Save America bill for which there's no support. Finally, Donald Trump concluding the gaggle on the plane by complaining about the questions. Every question is a kill. He doesn't like real questions. He wants sycophantic questions. It's sadly, enjoy the flight.

Okay. Thank you. It was number five or six or seven today. And every question is a kill. But then we have Daniel and some very good reporters. You're a great reporter. Thank you. Thank you very much.

The one guy who asks softball questions premised on the idea that Trump is just treated so unfairly. That guy is the good reporter. What a snowflake this guy is. Donald Trump hit with a nasty code brown. This could not be going worse for Trump and his latest stunt has backfired spectacular. Let me explain. Trump has this remarkable ability.

He can take just about any project no matter how small or symbolic and make himself personally responsible for it. And more often than not, the entire thing falls apart. And the latest example, it's like it's two on the nose. You remember the reflecting pool. Okay. Another one of Donald Trump's very highly publicized beautification projects in DC is going viral because a renovated fountain has now turned the entire little pool brown.

And it looks absolutely nasty. Our friend Aaron Parnas posted video from Meridian Hill, also known as Malcolm X. Park, showing this fountain that the Trump administration celebrated as part of the effort to beautify the nation's capital. And as you can see, the entire thing has just got completely brown and everything Trump touches continues to turn to whatever, whatever this is, I guess. Now, I know, you know, fountains sometimes have maintenance issues. Of course they do. That's true.

The point isn't fountains can never malfunction. The point is that presidents don't make themselves the face of individual landscaping projects. Imagine for a second. Would Barack Obama ever hold a press conference because a fountain was renovated? Can you imagine Joe Biden going around saying, look at this fountain. This is my accomplishment. Of course not. Presidents are supposed to focus on governing the country.

Infrastructure policy at the top level. Sure. Trump's first term had what? 12 failed infrastructure weeks. picture funding of national parks. Absolutely. That's within the purview of the president, loosely, but it is. Federal investment in public spaces and third spaces. Cool. Yeah, that makes sense. But whether one specific fountain in one Washington Park has clean water, come on, guys. That's the job of city agencies that do a great job, the National Park Service, their contractors,

their maintenance crews. It's just not something the president of the United States should try to turn into a personal victory. And I think that that's what makes this code Brown so revealing, which is that Trump has always had the developer's instinct for politics, which is just like buildings. It's got to have my name on it. It's a branding exercise and it's to promote myself, which is fine until the project inevitably runs into the kinds of ordinary problems that every project encounters and all of a sudden the thing you insisted everybody associate you with is associated with you and you get the blame and it's embarrassing. And of course, we just had another example, the reflecting pool, which became such an utter embarrassment after very highly publicized renovations

had problems. The story took on a life of its own. We learned a no bid contract was given out. Trump claimed that apparently imaginary villains, vandals, used the box cutter to cutter to cut a 300 foot slit in Trump's rubber at the bottom of the reflecting pool. And now they're going to hire apparently the same company to fix it, which is great for them, right? They're going to get paid again. And so a normal president would kind of maintain, make sure that public spaces are maintained, but not elevate individual. mountains or pools into a symbol of Trump's presidency. Trump loves this stuff because Trump doesn't really want to be president.

He prefers to deal with pools, building pools. It's not a criticism of Trump. It's fine to prefer building pools to being president. It's just you shouldn't be the president if that's what you prefer. People are going to judge the results. Trump inserts himself into all of it. No president could possibly micromanage every one of these little projects. And when reality intervenes, which it always does, it's another.

self-inflicted headache. So nobody is suggesting that the fountain or the reflecting pool are the biggest issues in the country. The issue is that Trump is inserting himself and the symbolism of it failing after Trump inserts himself is just laughable. And voters, I believe, are observing. Trump doesn't just like taking credit for successes. He wants ownership of things that previous presidents would never dream of making about themselves. And that means he owns the failures. And that there's this old expression that success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan.

And Trump has kind of reversed it. He wants to adopt every shiny object he thinks will make him look good. And then he's shocked when those very same objects become the symbols of failure every time something goes wrong. And so only I can fix it as true. Trump's political brand has run into a problem. And the more Trump is involved, it seems, the more likely it is to become a total humiliation. On the bonus show today, the administration is asking the Supreme Court to immediately reconsider

their decision on the birthright citizenship case. Will they do it say it ain't so? Secondly, why is everybody saying they spoke to Mitch McConnell for exactly 20 minutes? getting a little bit weird. And finally, we are going to talk about the destruction of the legacy of Charlie Kirk, which has become memeified. And according to some, very, very cringe. Sign up at join Pacman.com to get instant access to the bonus show. And remember that there are a limited number of signed copies available of my forthcoming book, pay attention, which is sitting on my shelf behind me the first ever copy. I will also be giving away this copy to one lucky person who pre-orders

the book. If you want to be in the raffle for the number one copy, which I will dedicate to you, send your pre-order receipt or screenshot to info at David Pakman.com. I'll see you on the bonus show.