The David Pakman Show - They want someone to blame other than Trump

Episode Date: June 19, 2026

-- On the Show: -- Donald Trump announces he will blame JD Vance if negotiations with Iran fail, while Ben Shapiro criticizes the memorandum of understanding -- Fox News host Jessica Tarlov confronts JD Vance on live television by citing the JCPOA preamble to correct his claims about Iran -- Former Vice President Mike Pence rebukes Donald Trump by warning that his unapproved tariffs are hurting farmers in the heartland -- Leaked documents reveal Donald Trump is allocating over $300 million dollars in taxpayer funds for the White House ballroom project -- Office of Management and Budget nominee Hal Duncan refuses to tell Senator Tim Kaine if Joe Biden won the 2020 election -- Disappointed multi-time Donald Trump voters and media figure Dave Portnoy publicly criticize the president over his focus on personal feuds -- The Friday Feedback segment -- On the Bonus Show: Hannity and Kilmeade question Trump's Iran deal, James Talarico fires back at “weak men” after masculinity attacks, and much more... 💳 PDS Debt: Get your free assessment & find the best option for you at https://pdsdebt.com/pakman 😁 Zippix Toothpicks: Code PAKMAN10 saves you 10% at https://zippixtoothpicks.com 🛡️ Incogni lets you control your personal data! Get 60% off their annual plan: http://incogni.com/pakman -- Become a Member: https://davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe to our (FREE) Substack newsletter: https://davidpakman.substack.com -- Get David's Books: https://davidpakman.com/echo -- TDPS Subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow -- David on Bluesky: https://davidpakman.com/bluesky -- David on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow (00:00) Start (01:24) Trump says he'll blame JD Vance if Iran deal fails (08:09) Jessica Tarlov challenges JD Vance (18:22) Mike Pence criticizes Trump's tariffs (26:33) Trump wants taxpayers to fund his ballroom (33:03) Trump nominee refuses to admit Trump lost in 2020 (41:42) Disappointed Trump voters turn on him (48:10) Friday Feedback segment Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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as the lone liberal on Fox News with a very simple question that Vance never really answers, which is why does your defense of this deal involve imagining Trump as the Supreme Leader of Iraq, It's weird. I know it's confusing, but we'll look at it. And former president, Mike Pence is not pleased with this negotiation saying that the Iran agreement is appeasement, which of course it is. And we are seeing more and more voters say, I'm frustrated with what Trump is doing after I helped get him elected.

We're also going to look at reports that taxpayers could be on the hook for the ballroom, hundreds of millions of dollars. We had promise after promise that taxpayers wouldn't pay a dime. And later, a Trump. Trump nominee asked a simple question. You know the question. Did Joe Biden win the 2020 election? And he ties himself into impenetrable knots.

All of that and more today. Can we somehow blame the entire thing on Joe Biden or maybe even on Barack Obama? No matter what political problem MAGA is facing, no matter what issue Trump is up against that seemingly has him up against the wall from a public relation standpoint. They always have this refrain. Can we blame Biden? Can we even blame Barack Obama? Trump has an idea as the surrender of the United States. Remember, we're going to get unconditional surrender from Iran. Instead, it seems to be surrender from the United States, this pathetic, flaccid memorandum of understanding that probably helps Iran end up in a better place than they were even before Donald

Trump's ill-advised war. As criticism of this grows, Trump has a strategy. And the strategy is, if it goes well, I'll take the credit. If it doesn't go well, I'll blame J.D. Vance. We played this clip yesterday. I'll remind you of the way Trump said it. He liked the suggestion from Peter Ducey, Fox News reporter. Is there some element to this where you send the vice president? If it works out, great, you look like a genius for sending him. And if it doesn't work out, it's the vice president. I like that idea. Sure. What? This way if it works out, I'm going to take the credit. If it doesn't work out. I'm blaming JD. You better be careful, JD. He's going to turn his plane around and get

the hell out of here. Yeah, I like that idea. Now, there's a reason why Howard Nutlick is laughing and Marco Rubio is not because Marco Rubio is doing the math and realizing, well, hold on a second. If Vance gets blamed, I probably also get blamed. And we talked about that yesterday. But let's zoom out a little bit. What I think is funny about this is that this has been Donald Trump's management style for the last decade that he's been in politics. Success has one father. It was born of Trump. Failure is always someone else's fault. As we are now over 10, almost 11 years into Donald Trump's political career. And he has never just taken responsibility for anything. He's never miscalculated. He's never, he's never even said, I hired a bad person. He goes, no, no, no, I hired a good person.

They turned bad after I hired them. I'm still the best at hiring. It was completely unpredictable. Maybe it's the general's fault. Maybe it's a lawyer's fault who gave Trump bad advice or an advisor, staff, judges, even if Trump appointed them, the problem is judges or certainly the fake news media. Democrats are a popular scapegoat. Trump's sort of joking, but the plan, of course, if this thing with Iran implodes, is to blame somebody else. And what's interesting is we're already seeing it happen. Prominent right-wingers are already saying it and laying the groundwork here. Here's Ben Shapiro. And he thinks that this MOU is pathetic and he's right.

But he's blaming who? J.D. Vance. The argument from Ben Shapiro is the memo is bad, but Trump couldn't possibly have been the the arbiter here. Vance didn't serve Trump well. That said this MOU appears to be just from the text, a disaster that does not achieve any of the actual signal goals that were set by the administration at the beginning. There were effectively five goals that were set by the administration at the beginning.

was ending the nuclear program, not just nuclear weapons, no nuclear enrichment, zero enrichment. That is not in the deal. Ballistic missiles ended. That is not in the deal. And the president today suggested that ballistic missiles should actually continue to be held by the Iranians because the Saudis, our allies, also hold ballistic missiles. Then you have the support of terrorism. That is not part of the deal, anything that looks like an attempt to end terrorism. A permanent opening of the Strait of Hormuz toll free.

Not only is that not in the deal, the deal appears to have a provision allowing Iran and Oman to attempt to toll the strait. to after 60 days. And then finally, the idea that Iran would receive some sort of sanctions relief after all of those things happen, we are already seeing from day one relief in their ability to ship oil out of Iran. In my opinion, that all sounds bad, right? But now we get his opinion as to how this happened. The vice president of the United States, the chief negotiator on this particular project has not well served the president. It's J.D. Vance's fault. Trump joking about it. And Ben Shapiro going, no, we're going to go with that. We're absolutely going to go with that. Here's Sean Hannity on his radio program.

And he goes, I don't think Trump even saw this MOU. I don't think it has anything to do with Donald Trump. Let me ask you this. And I want you maybe to tell me that I'm wrong. So this big memorandum of understanding comes out. I've talked to Jared Kushner. I've talked to Steve Whitcomb. I've talked to the president.

I've talked to everybody. And I don't think a memorandum of understanding means. a thing and the president I tend to listen to the president's words and because that is final anyway. I don't even think the president saw the memorandum of understanding to be very blunt with you. No. And he's saying, well, they either abide by it or I'm going to bomb the liberal. Trump didn't even see it. Now remember, even if you want to accept this at the micro level, Trump chose Vance, Trump empowered Vance, Trump put Vance in the role of

of negotiating. Trump approved the negotiation strategy. Trump publicly promoted the negotiations. So, if the agreement's wonderful, Trump gets credit because he's the president. The buck stops with him. It's his administration. He chose JD. He set up JD to be the negotiator. And if it's terrible, we are supposed to believe J.D Vance was acting independently all along. Trump didn't set parameters for the negotiations. He didn't set parameters for the MOU. He didn't see the MOU. That is a very difficult argument to make. But there are probably, I mean, listen, there's probably millions of people in this country who will fall for that crap. And that is why they are going for it. They spent weeks declaring the deal was imminent and it would be historic and it would be great. The details leak out and it's

terrible. A bunch of right wingers go, this isn't good. And suddenly, who did this? J.D. Vance is to to blame. And the remarkable thing is Trump framed it as a joke when he was asked about it. But it's what they're doing. Ben Shapiro is already doing it. Sean Hannity is not necessarily with Vance, but with others. They are already doing it. And I wonder if the magas are going to fall for it. My view is let's hold people accountable. Maybe that's a conservative idea. Personal responsibility, right? Trump started the war. Trump chose the negotiators. Trump set the parameters. Trump said the the MOU is okay. He's got to be accountable for that. Let's hold him accountable. A an unfortunate stop for Vice President J.D. Vans on his book promotion tour was Fox News as the five.

It wasn't unfortunate because of Greta Gutfeld's presence. It wasn't unfortunate because of Dana Perino. It wasn't unfortunate for him because of Jesse Waters. It was made unfortunate because of the presence of the lone liberal on the five Jessica Tarlov. Jessica Tarlov humiliated J.D. Vance. Now, listen, I understand the position she's in. When J.D. Vance shows up just because she's on the left, she can't do everything she might want to do if it were not on Fox News. She still has to abide by some decorum and etc. But she does a very good job here of pointing to J.D. Vance all the ways in which this Iran deal is pathetic and Vance really doesn't seem able to counteract any of the substance. Vance has media training. He's able to sort of try to deflect tangentially

some of this stuff. But let's take a look at a little bit of these exchanges. These are very good. As the straight opens throughout the summer. So I think what Jessica really wants to say is thank you. Jessica, do you want to say thank you? Thank you for being here. Very very, very cool to have you with us, especially when we're discussing this topic that you're running point on. And I'm a little uncomfortable about what I'm about to do, but I've been amping myself up all day. So, no, it's not going to call the Secret Service. They're already here, like 50 of you. You know, there's been leaked versions of this MOU, not just in the Iranian press, in the Saudi press, the Pakistani press, the American press has

gotten their hands on some details as well. You know, the Wall Street Journal has it. that Iran can immediately sell oil and that they're going to get some sanctions relief right off the bat. That was something that we heard was not going to happen. So they have an incentive to get this going by Friday, and there's going to be money changing hands. In the copies of the MOU that we've seen, again, leaked,

we have this $300 billion fund. And I saw you last night, you were with Sean talking about it. He said, well, it's not our money. It's, you know, Gulf Nation money, our partner's money. But that's still a $300 billion payday. And that's something that they desperately want to have. the punting on the nuclear program for the 60-day negotiation, that's the real tough stuff of this, right?

That's the meat of what we really need to get done. And you say the JCPOA didn't have anything about that. It's in the preamble of the JCPOA that Iran will cease all efforts to have a nuclear weapon, then enrichment will be held at about 3%. Well, they can't enrich enough because they can't get the dust, Jessica. Barack Obama never buried it. Well, the vice president is here.

Don't interrupt me. it will be over really fast. I was interrupting him. I was interrupting you. I meant me. Be polite for our guests. Waters realizes, oh boy, she has the facts here. She is pointing out that there is this other thing.

We're not comparing this MOU to nothing. We're not comparing this MOU to an unfettered Iran. We're comparing this MOU to the one we had that Trump got out of. And this is a major political problem for them because they keep acting as though the JCPOA was basically nothing. It had nothing meaningful to say about Iran's nuclear ambitions. It didn't do anything. And Jessica Tarlov points out the agreement specifically addressed in Richmond. It specifically included containment commitments. It included Iran's not pursuing a nuclear weapon. And J.D. Vance pivots here. We're going to watch it. He pivots to, oh, you learn that from the Wall Street Journal.

Classic, classic move. You know, there's been leaked versions of this MOU, not just in the Iranian press, in the Saudi press, the Pakistani press, the American press has gotten their hands on some details as well. You know, the Wall Street Journal has it that Iran can immediately sell oil and that they're going to get some sanctions relief right off the bat. That was something that we heard was not going to happen. So they have an incentive to get this going by Friday, and there's going to be money changing hands.

In the copies of the MOU that we've seen, again, leaked, we have this $300 billion. fund. And I saw you last night. You were with Sean talking about it. He said, well, and let me skip forward because we heard a bunch of this already. So let's actually get to J.D. Vance's part on it. I'll literally address a couple of things because I think you're making the same mistake, unfortunately, that a lot of the Iranian propagandists make when they talk about this. Like the Wall Street Journal? They talk about the benefits to the Iranians without any of the things the Iranians would have to give up and have to change in order to get those benefits. So you mentioned a $300 billion fund. I've got to be very clear about this.

Not a single cent of American money under any circumstance, no matter what the Iranians do, goes to Iran, not a single cent of American money. But they get other money. Here's what this says. This says, for example, let's say that the United Arab Emirates, who have been a great ally, let's say they want to invest in a power plant in Iran, what this deal provides is that if the Iranians have done everything we require them to do, then we will allow the United Arab Emirates to do that,

because they can't do that right now without American approval. So we're fundamentally saying if the Iranians transform how they interact with the world, we will transform how the world economy is. interacts with Iran. He wants to play a game where he goes, the money isn't coming from the United States. If the United States is approving of funds going to Iran, it is in essence the United States enabling Iran to have the money. They never would have accepted that explanation in the Obama deal ever, ever, ever.

But their standards are different when it is Trump. The weirdest moment of this entire thing is when Vance goes, if Trump were elected Supreme Leader of Iran, the Democrats would still say the United States lost. Huh? Okay. And again, lots of criticism from the Republican side of this as well. It is a bipartisan concern.

Well, I think, look, some of the criticism comes from the fact that if Donald Trump were elected the Supreme Leader of Iran, the Democrats would still say that the United States had lost this. There is a fundamental refusal to acknowledge how much has changed in the Middle East over the last few months. What does that even mean? Like what, what is he? What is, would that be the greatest victory?

Would the great is, is Vance going? There could be no greater victory than Trump becoming the leader of Iran. And even if that happens, Democrats would still say we lost. The Supreme leader is the person the United States has spent years describing as the central authority of the adversarial regime. The hypothetical is ridiculous, but it avoids the issue, which is not about whether Democrats like Trump. There are two questions.

Number one, if this deal is so awesome, why do so many Republicans think it's trash? And number two is the deal stronger than what we had because we are comparing it to an existing deal, getting out of which has caused significant financial expense to the United States. It has led to people dying. It has put us in another war. And what we're seeing when we just look at before and after Obama deal after getting out of the Obama deal, but before getting into the war, after getting into the war. Iran's circumstances seem to only improve and the United States' circumstances seem to only be diminished

in how useful and positive they are for everyday Americans. Vance is prepared for this stuff, but he doesn't really deflect it in a substantive way. This is going to be a major problem for Republicans, especially if the deal ends up looking like the letter. The frustrating part about debt is that even if you're doing everything right, the system is stacked against you. Interest compounds, the fees pile up, and you end up paying just to stay in the exact same place while the bank collects. That's why I want to talk to you about PDS debt, which works with people dealing with unsecured debt. That means credit cards, personal loans,

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exists to try to suppress this book and so much more. Just letting everybody know, Monday is the day. about it, where to pre-order the book, we're to get signed copies. If you want a signed copy, they will be available last time. It took us a while to get that going. We will have it all ready to go. Monday, more information forthcoming. Former Vice President Mike Pence is going on a sort of revenge tour of his own against Donald Trump. And when Mike Pence, a horrible right-wing social, conservative thinks you've gone too far as a Republican, it's time to look. It's time to look. look around and go, what the hell am I doing? Mike Pence making the rounds this week, including speaking to CNN's Caitlin Collins. Caitlin Collins saying to Pence, it sounds like you believe some of what

Donald Trump is doing here. The Iran deal, which is not really a deal and all of this stuff, it sounds like you think it's a mistake. And Pence goes, oh, it's even worse than a mistake. Listen to this. So, I mean, pretty bluntly, it sounds like you think from what we know, so far, this is a mistake by the Trump administration? Well, it's much bigger than a mistake. I mean, when the president took that historic step to strike those nuclear facilities last year, this is the first time in 47 years that an American president had taken the fight directly to the Mullahs in Tehran.

And America was safer as a result. And the fact that he tried diplomacy for the following year to begin to make progress, and then finally recognized that we just got to take the fight to them, launched Operation Epic Fury, our military responded brilliantly. But in this moment, the posture that we're getting from the Iranians, but my concern is what appears to be leaking out, these immediate concessions, particularly sanctions waivers right out of the gate that would essentially be a lifeline to the Iranian regime. I think is ill-advised. We ought to keep the pressure on, keep the blockade on.

And if need be, let our armed forces get back to work. Now, just like I said about Megan Kelly earlier this week, I'm going to table my analysis of Pence bigger picture for a moment. But his sort of micro analysis here is completely correct. Trump's giving a whole bunch of stuff away. We're not really getting much that's good for the United States. ending up where we were, if not worse, positioned than before this entire war started, it is bigger than a mistake.

This is a complete and total diplomatic and foreign policy disaster. He even uses the term in another moment of appeasement. And I got to tell you, I think Mike Pence is completely correct to use that word. Trump is appeasing Iran. Iran offered nothing and gets everything. Iran may go back to some of the things they put and agreed to for the Obama deal. And that's it. Pathetic. Well, Caitlin, look, Iran has been at war with the United States and our cherished ally Israel

for 47 years. And I strongly supported the president's decision for the first time in modern history to take the fight directly to the Mullahs in Tehran last year and then again this year. And I do believe the president has earned some latitude in negotiating an end to hostages. but I have very real concerns. Look, I apparently like an awful lot of people on the country, I just don't trust the Iranians. I've been too close to those issues from my time in the White House,

many briefings in the situation room, as well as my years on the Foreign Affairs Committee in the House. I mean, the Iranians, particularly on, with regard to their nuclear ambition, have essentially a legacy of lies. They lied their way through the Obama-Aran nuclear deal. We tore that up during the Trump-Pence years. Notice he still thinks that was the right thing to do.

Biden returned to the politics of appeasement. And at least what we're hearing echo out of this potential memorandum of this memorandum of understanding. It smacks of impeachment. I mean, it sounds a bit like what I write about in my book, that the progressive left has long embraced appeasement against our adversaries like Iran, but there are voices on the populist right that would have. Yeah, it's really rich to say that the left embraced appeasement when we had a stricter deal under Obama than the best possible thing Trump could get now.

And Iran was sticking to the deal. And I say this as a strong opponent of authoritarian regimes, a strong opponent, a strong opponent of religiously based theocracies. And it was still better than what we're ultimately going to get here. So Pence is making some good points, but still in a context where he says a lot of really wacky stuff. One other recent clip. This is, again, Mike Pence sort of criticizing Trump talking about the tariff stuff and Pence

disagrees with Trump there as well. Congress has the authority to tax and tariff, not a president unilaterally. And that was a proper resetting. but I will tell you as the administration continues their efforts to impose terrorists things are not going well in heartland now the you know we have a cornfield right beside our house and an orchard on the other side uh farmers are hurting out there I mean farmers and understand that what we grow what we raise we want to sell

and sell to the world. You get it. He disagrees with Trump about the tariffs. He thinks the deal, the Iran deal is appeasement. Fine. So listen, there's some stuff in here where I agree with Mike Pence, but there's a lot of bullshit that he's still spouting about the progressive left is worse and all of the stuff.

Whether it's Megan Kelly criticizing Trump for Iran or Mike Pence criticizing Trump for Iran or tariffs or whatever, I do not respect these people at all. Megan Kelly could have come out much earlier. and levied criticisms against Donald Trump. So could Mike Pence. Trump is now 80 years old. He's nearing the last couple years of his presidency. He's nearing the end of his life.

He's nearing the end of his political career. And now they go, oh, Iran limits on constitutional power, appeasement, the power to tariff. It's too late to matter now mostly. That being said, Pence did refuse to violate the Constitution for Trump back in 2021. But at the same time, that's a pretty damn low bar. Oh, he didn't violate the constitution. All right. But he still is cheerleading the fact that they got out of the Obama deal in 2018 when that deal

was working and it was stronger than what we're going to get now. Pence is right on tariffs, but he was in the room while Trump built the political movement that approved of the idea of let's do these blanket tariffs and said, let's vote for this guy. The damage to farmers was not this unpredictable consequence. It happened in the first term. It happened multiple times during the second. second term. And what Pence is really admitting is Trump accumulated powers Republicans would never tolerate in a Democratic president. That's really the admission from Mike Pence. He gets credit for

refusing to try to overturn an election, even though he wouldn't have been able to actually overturn it. Okay, he gets credit. But this whole like heroic framing, it's such a low bar for public service. And so now he is, you know, him and Trump don't get along anymore. Pence may have incentives to try to pull down Trump's second term because he's angry with Trump and Trump embarrassed him and all this stuff. But to say that I respect Mike Pence because of the stuff that he's saying now, he's right about some of the stuff. But you can find people who go, hey, the sun, uh, the sunset time changes a little bit every day. It's like, yeah, that's true, but that doesn't mean I respect you because you got some basic fact right. So I am struggling to find any semblance of respect for these

people. If I'm wrong, if I'm not being charitable enough or whatnot, let me know. Donald Trump and the Republican Party have spent years railing against government waste. They spent years telling us Washington politicians are spending taxpayer money recklessly and Trump won't do that. He'll fix it. He spent years telling us, I'm going to run government like a business. Trump's not that good at running businesses. So that should have actually concerned. us. But we now have a remarkable new report suggesting taxpayers are going to end up paying 300 million dollars to help pay for Donald Trump's White House ballroom. Now remember that Trump repeatedly said, you're going to pay nothing. It's donations. It's my friends who are giving me the

money because they're just nice people. You won't have to pay for a single dollar. Now, we already knew even then that that wasn't true because the ongoing maintenance of this additional square footage at the White House was going to be paid by taxpayer money. The additional utility costs of that structure were going to be borne by taxpayers. So it was always a lie. But Trump insisted for months, taxpayer free, they're not even putting up 10 cents. We have that specific claim. We now have a leaked document that contradicts all of it. There's a new report based on internal documents, the total cost of the ballroom has swelled to $600 million. And according to those very same documents, half of it is going to come from the donations

from Trump's friends. The other half will come from taxpayer money. More than $300 million will come through Secret Service, the White House military office and other federal accounts. All of those are funded by my taxpayer dollars and your taxpayer. dollars. Now, even if you support the idea of Trump, even if you think the ballroom is a good idea, there is a really straightforward question here. Why did he say taxpayers would pay nothing if taxpayers are going to pay 300 million? And how did we know that taxpayers were ultimately going to pay? That is the

issue here. It's not, oh, it's aesthetically pleasing. I love the columns, nice granite or whatever. The issue is that this was sold to us one way and it is developing the other way. This gap is massive between what we were told and what we were now getting. And of course, as soon as the, you know, it was going to be 150 million, 200, 300, 350, 400, at that point, it should have been obvious. We're going to be paying for this thing. And now the total cost is expected to be $600 million. And these projects don't end up getting less expensive.

They get more expensive. I would expect it to cost even more. This is happening. This is the contrast that matters. Happening as Americans are dealing with. Housing costs we were promised would go down but have gone up. Healthcare costs we were promised would go down but have gone up. Child care costs that have gone up.

Insurance costs that have gone up. Gas prices and energy prices, which we were promised would come down but have actually gone up. That is happening at the same time as 300 million going from taxpayers to the ballroom project. Think about the symbolism. Campaigns against wasteful spending attacks the excess of elites, claims he will be a steward of taxpayer money much more responsibly than any Democrats. And now taxpayers will pay for his ballroom attached to the White House. It's a vanity project.

We don't need this. It's ridiculous. What is much harder to debate is that the entire thing is unnecessary. Now, I know they love to say, well, we need it for the White House correspondence dinner. Wouldn't even be big enough for that. We need it for presidential security. No, we don't. What evidence is there of that?

Now, the security related spending is a big part of the case they're making. They're saying, this is going to be a super secure facility. That's really what you're paying for. It's still optional. We still don't need this ballroom. We still wouldn't incur those security costs were it not for the construction of the ballroom. I know the White House requires security. No one disputes that.

But what we're saying is are the security concerns being used to justify costs that are connected to a vanity project that never should have taken place to begin with? And the answer is obviously yes. I think this is a very simple story at the end of the day. We were told we wouldn't pay. The documents say we will pay. That's it. That's the entire story.

We were told it would cost X and it's going to cost multiple times. X. And as long as this continues, we need to continue holding Trump accountable for the promises he made. What was the promise on energy and gas prices and what happened? Don't take my word for it. Look it up. What were we promised about the cost and who would bear the cost of the ballroom? Don't take my word for it. Trump's on video explaining it. Evaluate for yourselves whether what was promised is what you're getting. I've done it. And for me, that means I'm not voting for Republicans in November. Most scams do not feel random. Scammers may know your name, your city, a relative where you work. And suddenly the message that you get sounds a lot more believable.

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find you and I am getting no spam calls anymore and I've always been using incogni. I would recommend it to anybody. Go to incogny.com slash Pacman. Use the code Pacman for 60% off the annual plan. The link is in the description. One of the weirdest new sort of traditions of the Trump era is that years after the 2020 election, almost six years out from the 2020 election, now, if you're a Republican who is nominated by Trump for a job in government, you are apparently not allowed or not willing to say something really simple. Okay, listen, listen to what I'm going to say here. Joe Biden won the 2020 election.

See how simple that was for me to say? I'll say another thing. Donald Trump won the 2024 election. Ah, it's such just like a breath of fresh air for me to be able to just say it. They can't do it. When they are asked who won the 2020 election, was it rigged? They go, the courts confirmed Biden's victory or Joe Biden was duly sworn in. Yes.

But did Biden win? Well, that's a political question. No, it is a factual statement. And we saw it again during a Senate hearing involving this guy, Hal Duncan, he was nominated by Donald Trump to be deputy director of the Office of Management and Budget. And Virginia Democratic Senator Tim Cain asked what should this should sort of be like, what's your name who won the 2020 election? Like these are easy points to get on your test.

Did Joe Biden win the election? And listen to the answer. But then it will cut later to Tim Kane asking who won the 2024 election and how Duncan goes, oh, Trump one. Hmm. Do you believe the 2020 election was rigged? Sorry. And this was so initially this is Merkley.

So we're starting with Senator Merckley here. I said Tim Kane. I believe that Joe Biden was certified as the winner of the 2020 election. He was certified, yes. But do you believe the election outcome was rigged? Senator, I appreciate the question. As mentioned, I believe that. that Joe Biden was certified as the winner of the 2020 election.

Duly noted that you're not responding to the question was the 2024 president. This is now Tim Kane. And I'll go back as I stepped on it. Now the question becomes 2024. You're not responding to the question. Was the 2024 presidential election rigged? Senator President Trump won the 2024 presidential election? Yeah, folks, how about that?

So he was asked twice was the 2020 presidential election rigged? and he said President Biden was certified to be the winner. He wouldn't answer the question. Saying President Biden was certified as the winner of that election is like saying today is Tuesday, June 16. I mean, it's obviously it's a fact. But he wouldn't acknowledge that President Biden won that race. Now, there's only one of two reasons, Mr. Duncan.

You have either fallen victim to the conspiracy mindset that says that that election was rigged. And if you're a conspiracy theorist, you shouldn't be let anywhere near the position you've been nominated for. Or, you know, President Biden won the election, but you're afraid of making an insecure president mad by acknowledging that fact. You answered so easily when I asked you the question about 2024, you didn't fight, you didn't evade, you didn't obscure, you didn't try to end run. You said President Trump won the election, which he did. He won the popular vote. He won the electoral college. The answer was just as simple about 2020. The fact that you were unable to give this implant.

Or about 2020 raises real serious questions much. Let me ask you this. Well, unable, unwilling Trump has through Trump, they've directed all nominees not to, not to acknowledge that. What I think is, so it is a cult. It is a cult. What is most fascinating here is not only that Duncan refuses to answer. And we've seen so many other nominees refuse to answer the question. It's that a contradiction appeared very quickly because, Because often when they are only asked about 2020, they go, listen, I don't really step into the political.

What I can tell you is Biden ultimately served as president. That's how they get out of it. They go, I don't get into the politics of it. But then as soon as he's asked about 2024, he doesn't go, well, listen, what I can tell you is Donald Trump's victory was certified and he was duly sworn in. They just go, no, yeah, Trump won. That contradiction is the proof that this is more than just, I don't want to get into politics. When they are put in a situation that potentially requires upsetting the Trump narrative and what Trump

has told himself and what Trump says, they come up with these lines about I'm not going to weigh in on questions of politics and controversy. What I can tell you is he was duly sworn in. I don't get involved in election certifications. But when it's 2024 and when Trump won, all of a sudden they go, yeah, no, Trump won. That's it. Oh, so you are getting involved in the politics of it. Are you?

This is not about uncertainty. It's not about, well, we lack evidence one way or the other. There's not a constitutional principle where nominees shouldn't weigh in on it. It's just about fear. And Tim Kane points this out very directly. He says something to the effect of, well, you're afraid of making an insecure president mad and Trump is insecure. He's also vindictive.

And what explanation could there be other than that? The 2020 election has been litigated endlessly. It's been almost six years. And despite Trump saying every couple of weeks, you should see the evidence we're about to give you. They've never given us the evidence. And why has it taken so long to find any evidence? There is not a shred of evidence for that claim. Republican governor certified the results.

Republican secretaries of state certified the results. dozens of courts rejected challenges. Trump appointed judges said there's no merit or you have no standing. They love to say it was all overstanding. No, there were Republican and Trump appointed judges who said there's simply no merit here. Trump's attorney general at the time, William Barr said there's no evidence of fraud on a scale that would have affected the outcome in any way. It's been six years and people in 2026 were almost had we're days from being halfway through 2026 if you can believe it. People seeking positions in Trump's administration six years into this thing still behave as though acknowledging reality could jeopardize their careers. Now, let's play it out.

Trump nominate someone like a Hal Duncan or some other, you know, similar sycophant. Imagine if Hal Duncan just goes, Joe Biden won the 2020 election and then they move on. Do we really think that that will get back to Trump and Trump will withdraw the nomination? Because that makes Trump look so triggered. I don't know. I don't even know that it would really be that bad if Hal Duncan just goes, uh, Biden won. That's it. Okay, let's move on.

Now we've taken the air out of the conversation completely. This is a nominee for a major budget position. I think it's important to mention. It's not a random Twitter guy going Biden didn't really win. this is someone being considered for an important role in the federal government. And I guess an unofficial requirement. There's the official requirements. The unofficial requirement is never say anything that might be upsetting to Donald Trump.

If you're unwilling to state straightforward historical facts because it could anger the president, what happens if there's a policy disagreement once you're in the position? Or here's a realistic scenario. There's economic data that is not what Trump would like to be said. What happens when your professional judgment differs from Trump's political interests? This is not just about acknowledging reality with regard to the election as the point. It's does loyalty to one individual in this case, Trump, become more important than honesty as a public servant? I would like to be able to tell you, no, obviously honesty is more important for public servants

than loyalty to one guy. But we've seen that the pattern suggests loyalty to Trump is indeed the most important thing. The test is no longer can you do the job. It's are you loyal to Trump? Can you tiptoe around the delusions that guide him? Terrifying, terrifying stuff. The midterms are coming. And there are Republican voters starting to say, F you.

to Donald Trump. Trump voters turning on Trump snapping and saying, I can't do this anymore. Here is a Trump voter, former Trump voter, interviewed on MS now. Listen to what he had to say. If you could talk to President Trump directly right now, what would you tell him? Should you want me to really say it on air? I say, I don't mean to be disrespectful to any, any leader, but he's disrespectful to us and he doesn't care. That's right. The midterms are coming and you have a chance to vote your conscience. Here is MS now with a segment about another disaffected Trump voter.

Four months away from the midterms, voters are not happy with how things are going. Even the ones who went all in on Donald Trump are Alex Tabit has been traveling the country, talking to people, and they keep telling them the same thing. They've had enough. They want what was promised, that roaring economy, the cheaper prices, the focus on America, the focus on them, and said what they're getting as an aging president, obsessed with himself, frankly, just listened to three-time Trump voter Chris Tackett, who we just played at the top, or this trucker from North Canton, Ohio, who had this to say when Alex asked him if Donald Trump cared

about what he was going through. I don't think they care. I don't think they understand. I think it was all smoke and mirrors during the second election. I think I think Trump is more concerned with his, with getting even with his opponents this time around than he was looking out for the average show that supported him. And yeah, I'm just disappointed. Okay.

So that's Chris Tackett again. Not hard to find Chris Tackett's even though we did two of them right there. They are everywhere. Donald Trump's overall approval ratings are at- All right. So there's another Trump voter who's had enough. And then just interestingly, a little side note, here is Dave Portnoy from Barstool Sports, but was a big Trump supporter at one point, seemingly disgusted by the Michelle Obama is a man guy

at the UFC fight. There was one moment. I do think Trump has to denounce. Yeah. And anybody associated with it has to denounce. And that's that crazy fighter guy. I don't even have his name up here. But he won the fight.

He took the microphone and he made a derogarty comment. about Michelle Obama. To me, that on the White House lawn. Now, these are UFC guys, all right? They're crazy. They're idiots. You have Sean Strickland, who's one of the craziest people of all time. To the point you can't even pay attention to what he says snuck in.

But when you have that on the White House lawn, on an event you put down, I don't care what you think about the Obamas or anything. That has to be an immediate denounce. Like, wrong, doesn't speak for me. I have no problem with the event. I guess you run that risk because these guys are lunatics, but that was the only thing if Trump should denounce it. He should say that was totally wrong.

The event itself. All right. So mild criticism and concern there from Portnoy about something sort of tangential. So what's the story here? What's what's the political danger? I don't think the danger for Trump is criticism from Democrats. It's criticism from people who voted for him. And that's what we just heard three examples of that.

Terms are decided by enthusiasm and turnout, not so much voters switching parties. When supporters are disappointed, it can be a massive early warning sign of electoral problems. And there is this growing frustration among some Trump supporters. And they, it's mostly based around personal feuds, revenge and all of this sort of thing that Trump is not governing. And it's it's Trump going after political enemies or going after Iran in an optional war or the reflecting pool, the ballroom, attacking people, men and women's sports, stuff that is not relevant to people's day-to-day lived experiences in the economy. And so even though Portnoy, he's not denouncing Trump, but he's saying Trump's at least got to denounce what this guy

said about. Moshel Obama is a man. When Dave Portnoy criticizes, this is someone who was, part of Trump's coalition. It's not a traditional opponent of Trump, even though Portnoy has softened on his support of Trump. And the question Republicans are now going to be facing is, do voters feel like they are getting the results that they were promised on prices, the economy, wages, foreign policy if you cared about Trump as the anti-war president, he started a war, immigration, if you cared about, well, you're only going after the criminal illegals, right, Trump's term, not mine. And the immigration enforcement has gone way beyond that. Is Trump delivering on his promises? And our voter is going to say, let's reward the party that supports it with more.

And final thought, I've said this before. I'm going to say it again for everybody who goes, yeah, I don't like a lot of the, I'm a Trump voter. I don't like a lot of the stuff Trump's doing, but my Republican elected officials been doing good stuff. They mostly support everything Trump is doing. When you vote to reelect them, you are voting to rubber stamp everything Trump has been doing. So we've got to make sure they understand. It's not, well, I have no problem with, with, you know, Katie Britt. I just have a problem with Trump. Katie Britt votes for everything Trump wants. And so you are rubber stamping Trump when you vote to reelect your senator. Keep that in mind. And we are potentially looking at a brutal defeat. As Robert Reich said,

when I spoke to him earlier this week, the House seems gone. But the same. The same. Senate is in play. And there are a number of paths to Democrats taking the Senate, but we do have to vote. There's a reason we do the elections. And I'll be talking more about that upcoming. The David Packman Show is an audience supported program and the best, most direct way to support the show is by becoming a member at join packman.com. You'll get the daily bonus show, the daily commercial free show, and plenty of other great membership. Get the full experience by signing up at join packman.com. After the White House put me on an offenders list, an enemies list, Joker Tony decided to write

in and said, David Packman, how do you feel that yourself and your lover, Brian Tyler Cohen, have been added to the White House list after you made a career and millions off Trump's name image and algorithm. Well, you know what, Joker, Tony? It turns out that Brian and I are not lovers. I know this comes as a shock and I don't mean that there's been a domestic disturbance or dispute. We both exclusively date women and not each other. But I actually feel really good about the fact that the White House put me on a list because when I started this thing, Independent political talk was nothing. Nobody was really consuming this sort of content as an alternative to the legacy and corporate

stuff. And the space has grown so much. And a lot of us as we were growing our shows would wonder, are we making an impact? Does this matter to anybody? Is anybody paying attention to what we're doing? And the fact that the White House has put me on the list, has put Brian on. the nasty guy. Even Brian copying my hairstyle wasn't enough to protect him from being on the list. In all seriousness, it's an incredible confirmation. It's an affirmation of the fact that what we're doing

matters. And it's the audience that should really take the credit because at the end of the day, this show is nothing without the audience. If there weren't people in the audience, for years now who said, hey, I think this is worth supporting. Instead of waiting for someone else to support it, I will support it myself. If it weren't for those people, there would be no list that includes independent media shows. So you know, Joker, Tony, homophobia aside, they love their homophobia, don't they? I feel really good about it.

Really, really good. also wrote in, David, fuck you, loser, asshole, gay. Why are they so homophobic? I'll never understand it. Why do you care? If I were gay, what difference would it make? Am I right about taxes or am I wrong about taxes? That's really what should matter.

All right. Let's now get into more substantive stuff on today's Friday feedback. Remember that you can email info at david packman.com. If you have anything to say to me, good or bad. And then we will also feature comments. Scott Jenkins on Spotify says, unfortunately, Paxton will win Texas. It's a given. So listen, here's my view on this whole Tala Rico, Texas Senate kind of thing.

We are many of us adults. And even if we weren't adults, we could still be. mature enough to be able to do sort of like on the one hand, on the other hand, kind of thinking. It is true on the one hand that it often is the case that in Texas Senate races, we look at the polling in May and June and July and we see the Democrat has a lead. The Democrat is up by two or whatever. And it ultimately turns out that the Democrat loses. That happens. That happens.

Or we go, the Democrat is within striking distance in the polls. And then the Democrat loses. That happens in Texas. That's true. At the same time, things that happen for a while don't have to happen forever. And it may be the case that the blueification of Texas happens by first having some, some races that seem close, and then eventually we get one. So when I look, for example, at the betting markets and I see that right now it's Paxton 58% expect to win, 42% expect that it's Talorico,

that is a reaction to what is taking place in the real world. And so it's a message to me that we should get involved in this race. And we are going to be involved in it here on the show. And if we assume that the outcome is a predetermined conclusion, then it makes voting not matter anymore. The reason we vote is that we can affect the outcome. Could it end up being another case of we almost got Texas, but the Democrat lost? It could. But could we also make it a situation where Democrats win.

Yes, we could. And we're going to try to do that. C.E. 2828 wrote to me on Spotify, David, get on the real White House list. the UFC Freedom 250 list and it will be Pacman versus Shapiro. Nothing beats the taste of victory and it will be historic. Listen, I think Ben Shapiro and I in any kind of physical competition would be pretty well matched from the standpoint of size and from the standpoint of weight class, okay? When I was with Ben at this Reuters next event, we seem pretty similarly sized.

So as far as that goes, that would be, that would be an interesting matchup. However, I don't believe my future is in beating the crap out of people or getting the crap beat out of me. At least I don't want that to be my future. Let me put it that way. So cage match or UFC fight between me and Ben Shapiro, I wouldn't expect it. I wouldn't expect it. Chaggum, Cham Gamela wrote, I have noticed YouTube has not been showing your videos in my feed

as much as recommended videos lately. Well, you and 10,000 others, Cham Gamela, we are up against some kind of brutal algorithmic disruption on YouTube. I'm not going to bore you by going through all of the details again today, but suffice it to say. What we need to do is retrain the YouTube algorithm. The best two ways to do that. If you're watching but not subscribed, subscribe.

It costs nothing and it tells YouTube I want to see this content and I believe other people would want to see it as well. And secondly, after subscribing, hit the little bell icon and make sure that the all notifications is selected. Otherwise, YouTube will use an algorithm. the algorithm to determine what of my content to show you. And it might be none of my content. So retrain the algorithm by saying, show me all of David's stuff.

All right, Al is there on YouTube weighing in on the Trump administration's view that screw worm in the United States is Joe Biden's fault. Al is there says. So the screw worm, which lives for 21 days, got in during the Biden administration, then Then they deviously waited until 18 months into the Trump administration to make themselves known. That makes sense. Yes, these are extremely conniving screw worms.

They came in under Biden because the borders were open. They attached themselves to a host dog in New Mexico, but only went active when Donald Trump had been president in 18 months. Why wouldn't anyone believe that? Matt wrote in on Spotify and says Trump's got 99 doctors and a shrink ain't one. Well, you know what's very interesting about this. Matt's reacting to the news that 22 different medical specialists examined Donald Trump during his recent annual physical, the third in 13 months, his third annual physical

in 13 months. And we don't know what specialists they were. I wouldn't rule out that there was a psychiatrist. I mean, there probably should be. But we just don't know because the White House hasn't told us anything. In fact, I would be reassured by there being a psychiatrist. We know something is happening with Trump's brain emotionally, cognitively, etc. I would be reassured if he was actually getting the expertise that he needs.

But no reason to think that there is a psychiatrist involved in Trump's care right now. Bobston Rob wrote on Substack, long time YouTube viewer. Never actually feared they'd come after you, doubling down to support, keep up the fight. Rob, I'm flattered. Thank you. The number of people since the White House put me on this list, a list that was initially all Jews, just a coincidence, right? Right? It is incredible, the outpouring of support.

People who now are subscribed on my website and substack as paid subscribers. people who, you know, we've got six million people that watch videos every month on YouTube and aren't subscribed. Think of what would happen overnight to the channel if those six million people who watch but aren't subscribed decided to subscribe. We can do this thing. We can take control of this thing. And it doesn't really cost anything.

So I appreciate everybody. Tens of thousands of new YouTube subscribers coming out of the woodwork really value you, appreciate you. We're going to do everything we can to keep going. Speaking of keep going, the show doesn't have to end now. We do a bonus show after every show for our website members and substack subscribers. You can get the bonus show on either website or substack. Go to join packman.com or substack. dot david packman dot com bonus show after this you love to see it