The David Pakman Show - They're defending Insurrection Act as chaos hits the streets

Episode Date: January 16, 2026

-- On the Show -- Jesse Dollemore confronts ICE abuses directly after agents gas a woman in a wheelchair and refuses to retreat under pressure -- Republican Rep. Andrew Garbarino struggles to criticize Donald Trump while entertaining the use of the Insurrection Act against Americans -- European leaders openly question whether the United States under Donald Trump remains a trustworthy democratic ally -- Speaker Mike Johnson deflects responsibility from Donald Trump and blames Joe Biden while unraveling during a Fox News interview -- German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier warns that Donald Trump is dismantling the postwar global order and isolating the United States -- Fascism scholar Jason Stanley leaves the United States citing authoritarian tactics and political pressure under Donald Trump -- The Friday Feedback segment -- On the Bonus Show: Maria Machado gives Trump her Nobel Peace Prize, Kristi Noem backs up the "show me your papers" policy, Karoline Leavitt gets angry with a reporter instead of answering a basic question, and much more... 🛍️ Shopify: Sign up for $1/month trial and start selling today at https://shopify.com/pakman 📜 Trust & Will: Save 20% on your estate planning at https://trustandwill.com/pakman 🤖 Sponsored by Venice: Use code PAKMAN for 20% off a Pro Account at https://venice.ai/pakman 🛌 Helix Sleep mattresses: Get 20% OFF sitewide at https://helixsleep.com/pakman 🛡️ Incogni lets you control your personal data! Get 60% off their annual plan: http://incogni.com/pakman 🥄 Use code PAKMAN for $5 off Magic Spoon at https://magicspoon.com/pakman -- Become a Member: https://davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe to our (FREE) Substack newsletter: https://davidpakman.substack.com -- Get David's Books: https://davidpakman.com/echo -- TDPS Subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow -- David on Bluesky: https://davidpakman.com/bluesky -- David on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow (00:00) Start (01:13) Jesse Dollemore confronts ICE abuses (07:03) GOP wavers on Insurrection Act (15:25) Europe questions US democracy (21:25) Mike Johnson blames Biden (28:59) Germany warns world order collapse (34:14) Fascism scholar flees US (42:42) Friday Feedback segment    

We will start today with footage you need to see. Jesse Dallimore and Brittany Page on the ground in Minneapolis, uh, uh, authorities gassing a woman in a wheelchair and Jesse is right there screaming at them, refusing to back down. Then watch a Republican almost criticized Trump and fail in real time as he floats using the Insurrection Act on Americans, troops in the streets, not a single clear no. And then something even bigger. Europe is openly talking about moving on from the United States, not managing Trump, not tolerating Trump, just moving towards a world without the United States at the center.

And it wouldn't be so good for Americans. Now, meanwhile, Maga Mike Johnson went on Fox News and proved that everything is Biden's fault, or at least that's what he wants us to believe. And then Germany's president says the quiet part out loud that the United States under Trump is destroying the world order and a leading. expert on fascism has fled the country because he says he knows what is coming. All of that and more on today's show. All right.

I have footage for you today. That is stunning. Our friends Jesse Dallimore and Brittany Page were on the ground in Minneapolis. Now, if you haven't seen Jesse's coverage, he's got a lot of it on his channel, interviews, discussions, all sorts of incredible video. I'm going to play a couple of things for you here. And Jesse really lets ice have it. The stuff that Jesse and Brittany captured on video is shocking, stunning and quite frankly,

extraordinarily depressing for what it means about where the country is at this point in time. Here is just to give you a sense of the scene video of, you know what? How can I describe it? A woman getting manhandled by ICE authorities. Take a look at this. So complete and total chaos, protesters being taken into custody, walked away and just general chaos absolutely everywhere. Now then Jesse started getting himself wound up.

And you know when Jesse gets wound up, things can get very, very crazy. This was, I mean, listen, I'll just I'll just play it for you. And you'll hear the things that he is saying. And it gets extremely chaotic. And you will notice here at a certain point that the. camera starts focusing on a woman in a wheelchair who has been hit by some kind of spray or gas and is not is not doing particularly well. He's okay, but we're not.

Masked Nazi fucks. That is Jesse right there. Cowards, too ashamed of what you do to show your face, you little bitch. Half pint bitches, half pint little coward. Puff your arms out so you look like a real man. Do you feel tough? Jesse is really taunting these people. They're, you know, what we're seeing, the video is absolutely dystopian.

You know, and people covering up after some kind of spray or gas and sirens are going off and then look like storm troopers are standing around. And then, and then meanwhile, our friend Jesse is there calling them half pint bitches or whatever he's called. I can't sign what we can do two things at once. We can recognize the inhumanity of this and also acknowledge the borderline satirical presence of Jesse ridiculing, ridiculing in a serious manner, these individuals. Does it make you feel tough with your bear spray pussy?

Cut! You do feel tough? You shouldn't. You should be embarrassed. Wow. Wow. Wow. And I have one more video for you here.

Again, just Jesse going full on and he's he's on the ground there. I mean, good for him. Trump is going to be around forever and you will be held accountable. Your criminals doing this under the auspices of Trump's authority is not. You will be held accountable. Your smog, unearned arrogance will be rewarded with fucking prosecutions, cowards. Keep staring, little guy. What's this one?

What's this one? He gets special treatment. All right. Well, listen, you get the sense of it. Totally and completely dystopian. Now, one of the things that I think we have to acknowledge is that in the aftermath of the killing of Renee Good, it doesn't seem as though the mood among ice is, oh, we got to be careful because there could be real consequences to what we do here.

In fact, it seems the opposite. It seems that they are even more emboldened. Now, Jonathan Ross, the specific guy who committed that shooting and killed Renee Good, he's reportedly in hiding. He doesn't want to show his face. And I probably make sense. I think he would be in danger given that the country by and large is disgusted with his behavior. But for the agents that are out there, they actually seem emboldened and sort of condescendingly

looking down at those who are saying, hey, this is wrong and this has to. stopped. So we should understand if that indeed is the attitude at this point, which seems to be from the footage that, that, that Jesse and Brittany got for us. They didn't get it for us. They were there on their own, but Jesse was nice enough to share the video with us. They seem even more emboldened. And so everybody needs to make their decision as to whether they're going to go out there and protest or not, but do it knowing with the awareness that they seem to be going further since the killing of, of Renee Good, not being more careful. Maria Bartaromo interviewed Republican congressman Garberino.

And the question was, what about Trump instituting the Insurrection Act? Now, we spoke yesterday on the show about what seems to be a calculated and sort of calibrated idea of instigating in Minneapolis using the chaos that ICE agents cause to invoke the Insurrection Act with maybe at the end of this saying, we can't have a midterm election in the middle of all this, can we? Garberino was asked, should Trump do it? And his answer, not exactly definitive. Let me put it that way.

And the president just treated about this. He posted on truth social. Bottom line, do you want President Trump to institute the insurrection act where he goes above what the governor says because the governor is not doing his job? I think that should be the last thing that we do. We should try to get these governors to realize what they're doing is wrong. Unfortunately, a lot of them are playing political games and putting our law enforcement officers' lives at risk. They need to change that.

And hopefully our investigation here in Congress, our movements, what we're doing and finding out whether or not they are actually telling the police not to help. If we get that answer and they are doing that, maybe the only thing they can do is the Insurrection Act. But hopefully that's not the case. Not exactly a profiling courage. Having troops on the ground is not the best thing to do. It might be the last, it might be the last thing to do, but I would like to see everything else tried first. All right.

He needs a little bit of media training and preparation, a little bit mush mouth, a little bit all over the place. But he sort of seems to be saying it would be regrettable, but Trump may have no choice but to invoke the Insurrection Act. Of course, then we would say, well, how did we get into the situation where Trump had no choice? Well, because he started it with these absolutely absurd deportation programs, raids, and deployments of ice to cities like many. But he might have no, it's the last choice.

It's our last resort, but we might absolutely have to do it. He then goes on to say, you know, if people just listen to law enforcement, we wouldn't have a lot of these problems. And what really bothers me is how comfortable people in this country have become to not listen to law enforcement. When a cop tells me not to do something, I don't do it. That should be the normal, that should be the normal way things go with when police officers talk to you.

The rhetoric on the other side, a lot of Democrats, especially the governor and the mayor over there in Minnesota, they're ramping up the rhetoric. They're telling people to get in their face. And that's just going to cause more problems. You know, it's very easy to say. If you just do what law enforcement says, then you're going to be good. The problem is, what about when law enforcement tells you things that are not lawful orders? When law enforcement says you're not allowed to record, and we all know.

at this point that we are allowed to record. Garberino would go, just do what they say, even if it's not constitutional, even if it's not a lawful order, because we're allowed to record. But if you do what Garberino says, then you won't have a problem. Just give up all of your rights. You would think, you know, there's these First Amendment auditors out there. They're typically right leaning. And basically they like to instigate.

It's entertaining. I acknowledge it's entertaining. What they'll do is they'll take, you know, they'll put a camera. Let me see if I can replicate this here. They'll put their camera. You know, they put their phone. They show up places, feel very conspicuously filming. Like if I went to, you know, people who are dining out on the sidewalk at some restaurant.

And I just go and I stand there like this and I'm recording. And the whole point of it is to get someone to come out and go, sir, you can't film here. Do you have a permit to film here? And then they go, I don't need a permit to film in public. And then they go, well, we're going to. call the cops and then they go, we'll call the cops. And the cops show up and the cops explained to the restaurant. They're on the sidewalk. It's what they can see from the sidewalk. They're allowed to film like this. They're allowed to do it. I find it entertaining, but kind of stupid. But these are

mostly right leaning people who seem to understand the purpose and the value of not giving up rights just because someone unlawfully tells you to give up a right. And so you would think that these right wingers, who I think are pretty sympathetic to the First Amendment auditor type people, you would think that they could be going, hey, listen, whatever reason someone has for filming what ICE is doing, as long as you're not impeding what they're doing, right? If you're just standing on the sidewalk filming, of course you're legally allowed to do that. And just saying if the cop says, don't do it, don't do it. You are relinquishing a right for no reason that is described in the law or the constitution. But Garberino would go, just do what police tell you and you're not going to have a

problem. Well, they're coming down and telling people they are not allowed to do things that they are indeed allowed to do. Uh, anyway, this guy's pathetic, not a profile in courage. And unfortunately, this is the sort of thing. Listen, I don't, none of us want the insurrection act, but Trump may have no choice. He may simply have to do it. I hope that we're ready for the day that Trump does invoke the Insurrection Act because we might need to be. Every January feels like a reset, new calendar, the idea that this could finally be the year you do that thing you want to do, start. Starting a business doesn't have to be perfection. It's about taking that first step before the month slips away.

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Packman show continues to be funded primarily by our audience through the membership program. You can read about it and sign up at join packman.com. Tuesday, we're doing a one day membership drive sort of commemorating. It's not really celebrating. It's commemorating. I guess we would say one year of Trump's second term, meaning three years to go. We're doing a huge membership discount. I believe this is going to be the most important year for independent media in terms of the role that we will play in the midterms. Would love to have your support today or Tuesday. If you want to be notified about Tuesday's membership special, just get on my newsletter at substack.davidpack.com or you can email me info at david packman.com and I will get you on the

newsletter. A major European columnist is openly arguing Europe should start preparing to separate itself from the United States because of Donald Trump. Not it should be preparing to manage Trump. Not Europe needs to know how to work around Trump, but simply distance from the United States altogether. Now, I know that a lot of the magas love to go, we don't give a shit what Europe thinks. These sissy Europeans with their espresso and bud that we don't care. Okay. Well, Listen, most of the world does care. And the fact that this is what is now openly being argued should really get your attention. Now, the argument is very simple and it's a devastating argument.

Europe is watching Trump flirt with authoritarianism, territorial conquest, including Greenland and other places, and watching Trump's open contempt for democratic norms. And they are rightly asking, is the United States still a reliable democratic partner at all? It's not a theoretical question. It's right now under Trump is the United States a reliable democratic partner. Trump has not only talked about taking Greenland one way or another. He has sent military into Venezuela and kidnapped the president there with no authorization. Trump's allies are openly hostile to liberal democracy to international institutions.

We don't know if Trump would actually allow the United States to meet its requirements under NATO shared defense if another NATO nation were to be attacked. He's kind of been like, yeah, maybe some of them got to pay more, though. I'm not really sure. And so there is a post-World War II order that kept Europe relatively stable for decades, which now Trump has completely reversed. And it's the trade wars. It's the NATO skepticism. It's admiring strong men. And from Europe's perspective, it's not just that the United States has become sort of unreliable. It's actually become dangerous potentially. And the part that should really raise people's eyebrows is that Russia is laughing. This is exactly the this is Putin's best possible outcome. Fractured democracies and Western allies

suspicious of each other. The U.S. at odds with Europe is great for Russia. And all Russia had to do was kind of just go along with the idea of putting a corrupt narcissistic felon back into power. You don't need tanks. You don't need an invasion. Just chaos, disinformation, a willing accomplice. And they have done it expertly. Now, I need to be frank with you about another aspect of this. Americans love to externalize the blame.

It's always someone else's fault. Nobody forced this on us at the end of the day. The American public was warned explicitly over and over. Trump got one term during which we saw what he did. He made clear his second term would be even more unhinged. Kamala Harris said it openly and clearly. Trump is a president of hate and war. It's a straightforward assessment.

And what happened? Half the country didn't argue the substance. They said, oh, Kamala Harris is bad because of this. There was racism. There was sexism. There was all sorts of stuff. And now look at where we are. Trump's own VP this week, falsely accused the mayor of New York City, Zoran Mamdani, of wanting

to kill all whites. I mean, just completely made up stuff incitement with no evidence. And what do Americans do? It's like mild outrage. A few tweets, then back to scrolling. Look at what happened with the Maduro thing. Look at what's going on with all of these. This is like a sleepwalking that is going on.

Now compare that, for example, to South Korea. where the president attempted a coup and within a week he was out, removed, prosecuted. That is a society that understands democracy doesn't survive on vibes alone. You need consequences. And meanwhile, in the United States, we've normalized the unthinkable and half the country excuses it. We both sides it. We wait for institutions to save us.

And half the country is just like shrugging. And the other half is understandably exhausted. So when Europeans start openly debating, do we need to decouple from the United States? Do we need to separate militarily? Do we need to separate economically and strategically? It's not that they're being anti-American. They are self-preserving and realizing what is going on. It's not tone that will collapse alliances, not normally anyway.

Its values start to diverge. And it's hard to see more divergent values than those which Donald Trump is putting forward now. Now, there's a final uncomfortable truth that bears. some mentioning. YouTube creators from Europe are increasingly asking, does the United States even still believe in limits on power? Like I've seen a bunch of European YouTubers who are saying, forget about Trump's personality and his bluster and his personal ambitions. Does the country under Trump even believe that the desires of others matter? Or is it just,

whatever Trump wants. And terrifyingly in his interview earlier this week with Tony DeCopal and last week he said it also. Trump has said really the only limit is his morality. Um, if pushed he'll go, yeah, courts, sure, the constitution maybe, but we have a situation where the democratic world is preparing for a future where the United States does not believe that there are limits on its power because Donald Trump doesn't seem to believe that. And I it's terrifyingly sad that Europe is now saying, do we need to just get away from this alliance with the U.S. terrifying, terrifying. But I can't say I don't understand it because if I was in their position, I would probably

be thinking the same thing. Biden, Biden, Biden. It is all Joe Biden's fault. Republican congressman and current speaker of the House Maga Mike Johnson appeared on Fox News with Bill Hammer. No matter what the topic, you can be. bet your ass that Joe Biden is somehow to blame. Here is Mike Johnson talking about ICE and says that a lot of what is going on right now is a result of previous administrations. Let's take a list.

To get to, on ICE, you know that's the story out of Minnesota. We've been covering it 24-7, as everybody else has in print and here on cable. Democrats wanted to fund ICE. Can they do that? No, they can't because Republicans control Congress. This is no time to be playing games with national security and public safety. And that's what Democrats are doing, beating the drums up here. Remember what ICE stands for it's immigration and customs enforcement. They are enforcing the law. They are getting apprehending the dangerous criminals who were allowed into our country because

Joe Biden kept the border wide. Ah, so what's going on now? If you're upset with ICE right now, they're doing what they have to do because of Biden, got it. And for four years, an estimated more than 20 million people came in. Many of them are a great danger to our community. A lot of them have collected in cities like Minneapolis. You know, these sanctuary cities, they're all there.

And so ICE has to go and do its job. There's a lot of spend on the Democrat side. They're assaulting our law enforcement officers and they're breaking the law. They need to get out of the way and allow federal law enforcement to do its duty. Listen, if it weren't for Biden, we wouldn't be in this position. because we are, everybody's got to let ice do whatever the hell it wants to do. It's that simple. I wish it were different, but because Joe Biden screwed us so badly, we now are in a position

where ICE has to do this. But it's not just on ice. The topic of the economy came up. Affordability. And again, it's Biden. It's Biden all the way down. God, do you think the affordability argument is a hoax, as the president has said? Well, no, what the president's referring to when he calls it a hoax.

calls it a hoax is the Democrats spin. It is Bidenomics that got us into this mess. It is by dynamics, the outrageous spending levels that drove inflation to 40 year highs. That's why prices are up. Now, we got to work on it immediately in January when we're published. Notice that there's no mention of Trump's blanket tariffs that are just crushing, crushing everybody. It took over the Congress, the House, the Senate and the White House. And we did exactly what we said we were going to do. Bring down inflation, cut taxes. Now, of course, inflation was two-point 4% when Trump took over. It's now 2.7%. But it's all Biden. That's it. Oh, but wait, what about the recent GDP number? No, that's Trump. What about the stock market being up? No, no, no, no. That's completely

Trump. Anything that appears to be bad that's going on. It's because we're trying to dig out from this endless hole in with bottomless hole that Biden put us in. Anything that seems okay is only thanks to Donald Trump. Are voters going to buy this? Are voters buying it right now? If you look at the polling, the answer is kind of no, but not by the degree that we would hope. But by a small margin, voters are not buying that the state of the economy today is still because of Joe Biden. However, it should be 100% that realize this is Trump's economy. The blanket tariffs were optional. The instability that Trump is generating is optional, going after the independence of the Fed chair by demanding that Jerome Powell be fired or considering fire him or replacement and then directing this DOJ probe,

which Trump says he has nothing to do with. But lo and behold, they seem to continually go after Trump's adversaries. That is all optional. But we are supposed to believe that the real blame here, the real person responsible for anything that's not going well is Joe Biden. Now, I really do wish at some point someone would ask one of these Republicans about deflation and really, really get them on record. You have promised and Trump has promised a decline in prices. You know that if inflation is more than zero, prices continue to go up. Do you really want deflation? And what about the fact that it's generally terrible for an economy? I would like to see one of these people presented that question and actually put in a position to answer it. I haven't seen it even a single

time. We have a bunch of new stuff on the David Packman show merch store. I invite you to check it out store.davidpackman.com. I've been wearing some of the things. They're going out. They're being sent out everywhere. Check it out store.d davidpackman.com. We'll take a quick break and be right back. All right. So we all know Alexa listens to us, recommends products based on our conversations. Meta retargets us based on our browsing and engagement history. Have you wondered what ChatGPT and Claude are up to with your conversations? We feed so much of our information to these AI chatbots, thoughts, dreams, sensitive questions, business ideas.

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If you want to use AI without censorship or fear of handing over your most intimate thoughts to a corporation or the government, go to venice. AI slash Pacman and use code Pacman to get 20% off their pro plan. The link is in the description. If you were shopping for a new mattress, I would recommend you start by looking at Helix sleep, the mattress I've been sleeping on for years, the only one that I recommend because they custom tailor it to your needs. I took their sleep quiz. It took a minute or two. I said, oh, you know, I like to sleep on my stomach. I tend to. and to feel hotter in the middle of the night rather than colder.

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Set up was easy. You do get 100 nights to try it out. They'll even take away your old mattress. Right now, Helix has a special offer only for my own. audience get 27% off everything on their site when you go to helix sleep.com slash Pacman. The link is in the description. The president of Germany just came out and said out loud the United States under Donald Trump is destroying the world order. It's not some mistakes are being made. It's not a wrong turn has been taken. It is destroying the world order. The comments came from Frank Walther.

Steinmeier, who is usually a ceremonial figure, understand that the importance we're talking about the president of Germany here. That means, interestingly enough, that he doesn't have to say this or anything at all, which in a sense means that when he does say it, it carries some weight. Steinmeier is warning that the world is sliding into what he calls a den of robbers. And a world where the most powerful countries just take what they want and borders don't matter, which really describes both the personal kleptocracy of Donald Trump, but also his approach to foreign policy and diplomatic relations. And if democracy doesn't matter, you then have to consider

what role is the United States playing in diminishing the importance of democracy? Now, this is not just about, you know, Russia has invaded Ukraine and Donald Trump is pushing for a solution that would involve Russia getting to keep a bunch of the land it took from Ukraine. This is sort of bigger than that. Steinmeyer called American behavior a second historic rupture after Russia in terms of the collapse of global norms. This is a big deal. Now, I know that a lot of magas will go, we don't care what Europeans think about this, that or the other thing.

Now, we know that you don't care. The point is some of us are actually still thinking about how does the world see what Donald Trump has been up to? And the answer is not particularly well. It is extraordinary for the president of Germany to say that the country that helped build the post-World War II order, as did the United States, is now participating in tearing it down. And it's not like an abstract idea. Steinmeyer's comments really are referencing Trump's actions in Venezuela, including the removal

and kidnapping of the president, Nicholas Maduro. And what he's really kind of getting at here is strong countries deciding to get, deciding who gets to run weaker countries and the concept that there are rules for some and not for others. If, and you have to kind of kind of consider the power dynamics, but if a smaller country even attempted to do what Donald Trump did in Venezuela, the reaction from someone like Trump would be, of course they're not going to be allowed to do that. There is no way. But when it's Donald Trump doing it, of course he should be allowed to do it. And it is a hypocrisy that we've pointed out before that MAGA doesn't care about, but it's still relevant to talk about. Now, there's some

interesting polling to go along with this as well. There's a new German poll, which finds that 76% of Germans now say the United States is no longer a reliable partner. And only 15% say that the U.S. can be trusted. This is the lowest number ever recorded. Now, Now, by contrast, three quarters of Germans say, oh, we can rely on France. Three quarters of Germans say we can rely on the United Kingdom. So, so think about that. Germany trusts France. Germany trusts the UK.

Germany does not trust the United States. Again, I know the Magas don't give a damn about that. But when they say now that Trump is here, we are finally respected abroad, no, we're not. And if Trump's behavior is so iraq. that it scares some people, that's not respect. That's fear. Fear and respect are two different things. Also notable nearly 70% of Germans say that they're worried about European security and a similar number think NATO cannot rely on the United States making good on its shared defense responsibilities. And why would they? I mean, Donald Trump has sort of suggested, yeah, we might, we might not

defend NATO allies if they are attacked. So for those who say Trump has really shaken things up here, He's really making people think and whatever. No, it's the United States is becoming a problem and is damaging our alliances and relations. For years, Trump said, I have been and will again make the United States strong. And what he's actually done is isolated the United States, torched trust, and really turned the country into the kind of power that we used to oppose. And when the German president is openly warning the world, do not let the United States. turn the planet into a free for all run by bullies, you know something has really reversed from the post-World War II order that the U.S. played a significant role in boosting.

The world sees it. Even if the magas refuse to acknowledge it, even if Trump's ego would never let him acknowledge it, the world sees that this is going on. And by the way, the fascism experts also see what's going on. and some of them are leaving and have left the country. Let's talk about that. Jason Stanley is not a random activist. He is not a tick-tack commentator. He is not being dramatic. Jason Stanley is one of the world's leading experts on fascism. He wrote the book, How Fascism Works. And he has left the United States because of Donald Trump. Stanley was a professor at Yale.

university, tenured, prestigious, kind of as protected as it gets in American academia. And even he decided it wasn't safe or honest to stay. And so he has moved his family to Canada and is now teaching at the University of Toronto. Why? Because in his words, the Trump administration has carried out a coup, not a metaphor, not hyperbole, a coup. Stanley says the Trump regime. believes it has enough control over the levers of power that it doesn't need public support

anymore. That is a chilling sentence. And according to Stanley, universities are being targeted first, funding threats and political pressure demands for compliance. And he believed that if he stayed at Yale, the institution would feel pressure to tone him down. Not because Yale necessarily agrees with Trump, they probably don't, but because Yale wants to survive and state. Stanley said that the message would have been very clear. Do not do anything to provoke retaliation from Donald Trump. Don't bring heat. Normalize what is happening. And he refused. And so he left. And from outside the country, he is now saying what many institutions in the United States are too afraid to say, which is that Trump is using classic fascist tactics, a cult of the leader, scapegoating

immigrants, LGBTQ people, political opponents. They all get scapegoated, delegitimizing your opposition. criminalizing protests, turning law enforcement and the military inward. Stanley says that when people frame this as, oh, the country is simply polarized, that they're getting it completely wrong. He says this is not about two sides that disagree. There is the embrace of authoritarianism on one side and others being told, you got to calm down. He makes the point very bluntly. History will not remember this as polarization.

History, if you look at other examples, remembers who normalized fascism while it was happening. And the part that really should land is that he doesn't believe the fight is over. He thinks Trump may have moved too fast, that the cruelty and the corruption and the illegality are becoming obvious to too many Americans because he moved too quickly. And he is really making me think, you know, when a global scholar of. fascism looks at the US under Trump and says, I must leave the country and doesn't just say, oh, I might move to Canada. He did it.

He moved to Canada. That is not something that Americans should be shrugging off. As I've said before, we have this false notion that fascism sometimes appears with tanks rolling in the streets. But one of the unfortunate realities is that fascism always. often appears in ways where you don't need the tank tanks to roll down the streets. Fascism appears by silencing dissent, generating self-censorship, and through other mechanisms that in some cases prevent you even needing the tanks in the streets to begin with.

There are people who understand this. Jason Stanley is one of them. He determined that it is indeed a time to go. And this is of course terrifying. Now, I've also heard from a bunch of you, some of whom are considering leaving and I've heard from some of you who already have. As I think I've mentioned before, I've heard from people in the audience who have left the US and have gone to Spain, the UK, South America, some to Asia, Portugal is a popular destination. Most people can't do this either for financial reasons or from the standpoint of immigration requirements and restrictions. But I don't ever remember a time hosting this show when I was hearing from so many people who are saying I'm going to get out. Now, I've said before, and I talked about this with

Heather Cox Richardson, when someone asks me, should I leave? Should I leave my red state because my daughter is trans, for example? Or should I leave the country because of what's going on? On the one hand, intellectually, I recognize that if everybody with the right ideas leaves, we are seeding control to those with the worst ideas. That's terrible. That doesn't work. But at the same time, who am I to say to any particular person, you must stay no matter what the risks to yourself or your family. So I get it. I get the reasons that people are doing that. The concern, of course, is over the long term, how is that going to affect our ability to fight back against what is going on here in the United States? So if there are others of you that have left or are thinking of leaving,

let me know, leave a comment, send an email to info at David Pakman.com. And remember that we are going to do everything we can to remain up and running, even as the pressure is mounting. As I've said before, if we were to get shut down on any platform, the platform where we own our data is substack. So we will be able to let you know what we're up to and what's going on. If you are on that substack newsletter, if YouTube shuts us down because of pressure from this administration, we have no way to reach our three and a half million YouTube subscribers. Same thing with our 700,000 Facebook followers. We own the data on substack.

So make sure you're on my newsletter, substack. David Pakman.com. Scary times. Identity theft and targeted scams often start long before the breach when bits of your personal life addresses, emails, relatives, your work history are scattered around the internet on these data broker sites and that information is sold or reused. Our sponsor in Cogni will get that stuff removed for you, not from just a sense. single type of website, they will work to take down your personal information wherever it shows

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The link is in the description. Let's get into Friday feedback, which includes your emails, your Spotify comments, your TikTok comments, your YouTube comments, your Facebook comments, your Instagram comments, your Snapchat cuts. Anyway, we start today. with a message, very appropriate and intelligent message from Tennessee mountain biker, who says, so you claim no spin and comp unbiased, you are as unstable as the people you talk about. Listen, I don't know how many times I have to explain this.

This is an opinion program. I have an opinion. I don't pretend not to have one. nor do I attempt to hide my opinion from you. What I always make an effort to do is to tell you what the known facts are and where I am synthesizing my opinion. So I'll give you an example. And this is this is like this is nuts and bolts media literacy stuff and people just don't

get it. If I say to you, the top tax rate is 37%. That is a statement of. fact, if I lied to you about it, then I would be misleading you about a fact. I could then say to you, I believe that there should be a higher top tax rate and here's why. That is my opinion. I have a personal opinion. And in that sense, you could call it a bias. Everybody has a bias. Any show, you know, whether it's Ben Shapiro or Dan Bonjino or Dan Bonjino or whoever, everybody brings their reviews. Now, if you are doing news reporting, the idea is that you hide your opinion, that you

present only the facts. And sometimes opinion slips in there. This is an opinion show. And I am transparent about what my opinion is. Now, no spin or me being unstable. I don't even want to get into that crap. All right. DJ Basca wrote on Spotify. Come on mate. I've been listening to your podcasts for the last four days worth. The purpose of all this is to take the attention off the Epstein files. They wrote of the Epstein files. I think they meant off. Take the attention off the Epstein files.

And for your show, it's worked. I don't think I've heard you mentioned in the last couples of shows. Well, a couple different things here. First of all, Donald Trump is so irrational and erratic and incompetent that any time I hear an allegation, you know, the Trump kidnapped Maduro exactly on this day to take attention away from the Epstein files. And then now with this shooting, Trump sent the people to Minneapolis because he knew it would cost chaos and take attention away from the Epstein files.

I just don't think Trump's that competent. And also, I believe that it can be hard to predictably distract because you don't know how some of these things are ultimately going going to go. As far as it's worked because I haven't been talking about Epstein. We don't talk about Epstein every day on this show. There are ebbs and flows when there is new information that comes out. We talk about it when they're, you know, I don't think the audience's expectation is that this is the Epstein show day in and day out. But I always, I'm always skeptical of attributing too much agency to people who have shown themselves to be incompetent.

In some general sense, do I think Trump doesn't want Epstein being the number one discussion point? Yeah, because he's he's told us that. He gets angry and he goes, how are we still talking about this? The timing of the Maduro thing or Minneapolis thing or investigation of Jerome Powell or whatever specifically to distract from that. I don't know that I would give him so quite so much credit. Big Racks Russ wrote on Spotify about my interview with soybean farmer Caleb Ragland. The conversation with the soybean farmer seemed to be going well until he tripled down on his support for Trump.

I want to be clear. Being a Trump supporter doesn't disqualify from respect. However, contingent to buy into the propaganda and say that he has been objectively the lesser of two evils in every election since 2016 is incredibly disingenuous and makes me question your ability to think outside of your party. Still supporting him after the first trade war as a farmer is beyond me. Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, listen, that that interview was illuminating because Caleb, he's a nice guy.

He's well spoken. He knows a lot about how tariffs affect soybean farming and farming in general. But it was sort of jarring where he said, yeah, I mean, Trump's tariff policy is terrible, but I voted for him three times. And I think that he's got it right on security and the border and all this different stuff. I mean, listen, it's all about how you prioritize things. Clearly for Caleb, the fact that Trump has single-handedly crushed his business. is weighed against the fact that he likes Trump's other policies, I guess, even though he was a little coy about exactly which ones he likes. Yeah, I mean, like, that's probably not someone that you're

going to convince. That is an example of Trump could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and support couldn't change. Trump can destroy your business and you would still support Trump. And you have to remember, if that's the case, why would Trump do anything for you? He's got your support either way. So, uh, that is, it was jarring. And I got a, by the way, I got a bunch of messages about this. Lucas J. 11 wrote in and said, this soybean farmer is exactly the type of person. The rest of us cannot believe exists. No matter how destructive the orange is to his own soybean community, not to mention the rest of us.

He still voted for him three times in a row and would do it again. My goodness. Yeah. Nothing to add there. I mean, it mirrors the point that I made. We talk to one of them, right? I mean, it's, it's, it's illuminating to figure out how deep the commitment to Trump, even as Trump has no commitment to soybean farmers or to people in, um, uh, the south of the country,

the Midwest, wherever, uh, Miguel says, David, you need a haircut, brother. You know, um, I just bear, I just don't have time between all of the, uh, the flu that entered my house. and then the pneumonia and then going to the ER with my daughter and a lot of different commitments and working on my second book. I'm on deadline. It's just hard to find the time. I know that the, I know the sideburns are looking scraggly, but I'm going to make an effort to get a haircut soon.

Believe me. I know. I just don't have time. Okay. Um, oh, someone likes the Obamna shirt. Obamna. I have the shirt in black. Appreciate you and the team, David.

Yeah. The Obama shirts. that are available in our store are just selling like crazy. And we also have the hats, one of which is behind me. And then we have a new shirt design that just says 1 2029, which is the day that Donald Trump leaves office forever. He came down the golden escalator in 2015. And we are going to send him up a golden escalator that will go so fast that it'll catapult him to to wherever. That shirt also, very popular, the 1 2029 shirt. It's all at store. David Pakman.com. All right. A ton of reaction, a ton of reaction to my segment last week saying, I don't talk about my gun ownership or lack

thereof personally. It's just a decision I've made for my own security. I wouldn't necessarily want to say I do or don't have guns or say anything about them. But I did indicate only the right wing nuts having guns is scary. It's sort of like a, uh, uh, an arms race to the bottom or something. A lot of feedback about that. And on YouTube, Jason Hatfield said, the gun ownership demographic in this country being highly correlated with a virulent political extremist movement inevitably leads to the interpersonal arms race that David is discussing.

But it is far too late for the normies to catch up. This is one of the main reasons to consider divesting in this society altogether if it is even feasible for a given person or family. Yeah, listen, I mean, I, if I think about guns as a way to protect oneself in the United States, just going to Belgium is a much better way to protect yourself. And of course, as Jason is pointing out, that is not practical, reasonable, nor affordable for probably the vast majority of the population. That's a reality. And so we have to keep working to make the country safer because not everybody can just go to Australia, you know, or wherever Sweden.

And what resonated with a lot of, I was surprised. And I was surprised, but not surprised. So many of my liberal friends in blue states own guns. And their explanation is, I don't want the magas and the Magapetamians and the Magadonians being the only ones with the guns. And so. And so many of you wrote in and said, David, I'm like you, I think we need fewer guns in this country. And also, I don't want to be in a situation where it's only the right wing nuts with the guns.

It's a regrettable status quo. Can't put it any other way. Christina wrote, glad you're here, David. Thanks for your tireless presence in my social media. Appreciate it very much. Well, I appreciate that, Christina, and I appreciate you. And the incredible, I don't know how many of you are aware of this, but our following, you know, you, we've been on YouTube for a really long time.

So it's harder to have growth that's as fast on platforms you've been on a long time. Our Snapchat has been blowing up. Our Instagram has been blowing up. Our Facebook has been blowing up. TikTok and TikTok. We are seeing growth on some of. of these platforms like we have never seen before. And I believe that it would have what it has to do with is a deep desire among millions of Americans to find community that is sane and like-minded

at such politically perilous times. I think the more that, you know, ICE terrorizes neighborhoods, the more people who see it as wrong say, we need community. We need to be with like-minded people. And I appreciate everybody who has kind of entered our social media ecosystem, which is approaching 8 million followers. Incredible. Eight million, if you could imagine. It took us a year to get 1,000 YouTube followers, a year.

And we are now growing by close to 200,000 followers a month and rapidly approaching 8 million. It's insane. It's completely insane. We have a phenomenal bonus show for you today. We will be back Monday with a new show. Sign up at join packman.com. Get on my newsletter for free at substack. com.

Have a good weekend.