The David Pakman Show - They’re getting caught doing the exact same thing

Episode Date: June 16, 2026

-- On the Show: -- Robert Reich, former Secretary of Labor and bestselling author, joins us on Substack Live to discuss a possible plot to remove Donald Trump from office via the 25th Amendment. Check out Robert's Substack at robertreich.substack.com -- JD Vance acknowledges that Donald Trump's Iran agreement could give Iran access to a $300 billion reconstruction fund -- JD Vance tells Sean Hannity that many details of Trump's Iran agreement will not be finalized for months after the deal is signed -- Trump appears hoarse and fatigued during meetings with Emmanuel Macron while discussing the Iran agreement and the World Cup -- Trump refuses to release the full Iran agreement while warning that Iran will face "ultimate consequences" if it pursues a nuclear weapon -- Algae returns to the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool shortly after a $14.2 million renovation project that was intended to solve the problem -- Gavin Newsom says Trump is weaponizing the federal government against him and his wife following reports of a DOJ investigation -- On the Bonus Show: Elon Musk's net worth soars to $1.3 trillion, Eric Trump allegedly asked about rigged fights ahead of the UFC event, a challenger who shares a name with Senator Dan Sullivan is ruled ineligible for the ballot, and much more... 🩳 Quince: Get free shipping & 365-day returns at https://quince.com/pakman ⚠️ Ground News: Get 40% OFF their unlimited access Vantage plan at https://ground.news/pakman 🔬 Freedom From Religion Foundation: Text DAVID to 511511 or go to https://ffrf.us/david 🛡️ Incogni lets you control your personal data! Get 60% off their annual plan: http://incogni.com/pakman -- Become a Member: https://davidpakman.com/membership -- Subscribe to our (FREE) Substack newsletter: https://davidpakman.substack.com -- Get David's Books: https://davidpakman.com/echo -- TDPS Subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow -- David on Bluesky: https://davidpakman.com/bluesky -- David on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/davidpakmanshow (00:00) Start (01:25) Trump's deal could give Iran $300 billion (10:36) JD Vance lowers Iran expectations (21:48) Trump exhausted in meeting with Macron (30:26) Trump refuses to release Iran agreement (39:19) Robert Reich Interview (1:03:15) Algae returns to the DC reflecting pool (1:09:07) Trump orders Gavin Newsom investigated Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. MAGA spent a decade attacking Barack Obama's Iran nuclear deal. They said it's a giveaway. It's a disaster. It's surrender. And now Trump's administration is admitting that Iran could get access to hundreds of billions of dollars while they admit that a whole bunch of the details haven't even been worked out,

even though Donald Trump has already declared victory. Wait until you hear the vice president, J.D. Vance. Explain what's actually in the agreement. Then a bizarre G7 appearance raises new questions as Donald Trump is struggling through meetings. He's making confusing comments about Iran. He contradicts his own negotiators. And I will be joined by Robert Reich for a fascinating conversation about authoritarianism, about populism, what Democrats should do, what he believes is going on with Donald Trump.

later, the reflecting pool after millions of your taxpayer dollars pour in to fix it, the algae is back and it looks just as bad as ever. Oh, and by the way, Trump is now having Gavin Newsom and his wife investigated. Let's record this one. We might as well publish it, I think. I said it months ago when the Iran war started and it is coming true. At the end of the day, we are in the best case scenario going to end up after months of what was going to be a three-week war with something that will be similar to the Obama-Iran

nuclear deal, but not as strong and not as good for the United States. Remember that for nearly a decade, Trump and the MAGA movement had one big argument about Iran and the Iran nuclear deal of 2015 of Barack Obama. The argument was the Obama nuclear deal was a disaster because it was weak and it gave Iran money. That was the word they loved to use. Obama paid off Iran. He was funding terrorism. He's sending them pallets of cash, as they like to say.

And then Donald Trump withdrew from the deal in 2018 when he was president the first time around. And Trump said, I did such a big boy. This is so good. deal is terrible. We're never going to get into a deal like that again. Obama's deal was a mess. And then Donald Trump bombs Iran in June of 2025, supposedly decimates their nuclear capabilities, which they only started to rebuild because Trump got out of the deal. And then I guess the decimation didn't take because then February 28th, Trump goes back into Iran. It was going to be three weeks. We are now in week 16 and Trump is claiming victory. We have a deal, Trump's.

says. Now, forget for a second that we don't have a deal. We'll get back to that. It's not two weeks away, but it's a few more days and I don't want to release the text of what's in it, but it's very good and don't worry. Okay, put that aside for a second. In comes J.D. Vance. And he's asked a very simple question by CBS. The Iranians say they're going to get access to this $300 billion reconstruction fund. Is that true or is that false? And J.D. Vance. acknowledges that that is indeed true. Walk through some of this. The Iranians are saying that they're going to have access to a $300 billion

reconstruction fund, true or false? Well, Ed, that's the sort of thing they could have access to funded by the Gulf Coast Coalition so long as they honor their end of the obligation. I think that one of the things you're going to see, Ed, and people have to be skeptical of this, is that the hardliners in the Iranian system will over-emphasize the benefits that Iran gets, while under emphasizing all the things that they yeah yeah yeah but they're going to over emphasize

the answer is yes now i don't have a problem with sanctions relief as part of a deal i didn't have a problem when it was the obama iran nuclear deal and i don't have a problem with it now the difference is they had a problem with it when it was obama but not when it's trump it was a hundred a billion under Obama and it's 300 billion under Trump. But they said that this is funding terrorism when it was part of the Obama Iran nuclear deal. Now, just as a reminder so that we all have the same information that we're working with, Obama didn't pay off Iran any more than Trump is paying off Iran here. What we're talking about is sanctions relief and releasing money that is currently being held.

It is Iranian money in a generic sense. Now, you could say it shouldn't be or whatever, but it's similar in the Obama and Trump situations. See how I'm not being a hypocrite? The difference is that none of this was necessary that we've seen under Trump to end up in a similar situation, which under Obama, they said was funding terrorism. Now, maybe they have a good explanation of why it's okay this time, but it wasn't okay when Obama did it. Maybe this time there are different safeguards in place.

I'm thinking out loud, we have no idea because they won't show us the text of the deal. Maybe there are different conditions. You know, JD likes to go if they behave, but if they behave was part of the Obama Iran nuclear deal as well. And this is exactly the point. These are the kinds of arguments that Obama supporters made as well, but the MAGA people didn't want to hear them when it was the Obama nuclear deal rather than the Trump Iran deal.

Now, the second problem is that nobody seems to have any idea what's in. this deal. And as we've learned over time with Donald Trump, if we don't have a signed document where we can see that it's been signed and read what is in it, we essentially should consider that it's imaginary and theoretical. And that's exactly what J.D. Vance kind of admits here. Jake Tapper asks J.D. Vance, is it fair to say that, for example, the Iran deal doesn't explicitly require Iran to end the ballistics missile program or stop funding the Houthis or Hamas or Hezbollah and listen to what J.D. Vance says. Is it fair to say that it's not spelled out that they have to end their ballistic missile

program or end their funding of the Houthis in Hamas and Hizbollah, that that's left purposefully vague and then the U.S. will come later and say, you know that we expected this and you're not behaving accordingly. I'm just trying to understand how the deal is written. Yeah, so the MOU, Jake, is about a page and a half. So it is a very general document, but this has been very much part of the conversations that we've had with the Iranians.

And on a number of issues, we are going to have to figure this stuff out during the technical negotiation phase. But what the MOU does, a, aka we're nowhere near done. ...as is set up a framework whereby the Iranians get the benefits of the bargain by meeting their obligations under the bargain. They know that we don't want them to fund terrorist organizations.

They know that we don't want them to be a source of instability in the region. And of course, they know this and they know that. That right there destroys Trump's narrative. Trump's narrative on Sunday as he was turning 80 years old and going to this mosquito infested delusion fest UFC fight at the White House. Trump goes, we got a deal. It's over. We're going to sign it in a few days.

Friday maybe, but we've got a deal. And J.D. Vance, as uncharismatic as he is, as unlikable as he is, he's at least bending towards the truth of the matter a little bit more than Trump, which is we have a memorandum of understanding. That's what an MOU is. A memorandum of understanding. It's a memo. It's a note. We have a note that says what we're going to do, which lays out a framework to negotiate a deal. And he says a lot of the stuff isn't even in the MOU. He's just like, they know we don't want them funding terror. So not only isn't it part of the deal because there is no deal, that's not even part of the page and a half letter. They just know by osmosis that we don't want them funding terror. This movement spent a decade insisting that every detail of Obama's deal had to be scrutinized and was corrupt and was a handout to the Iranians. And now we're told we have an MOU for a framework that's broad. A bunch of important stuff isn't in there because the Iranians know that we care about that,

but we're not putting it in the deal. And the specifics still have to be negotiated. Now, maybe that's fine, but that's not what Trump claimed on Sunday. Trump said we have a done deal. The stock market popped yesterday. Beautiful day for the stock market, by the way. I loved looking at my mutual funds, but it seems to be based on lies. And it is all just kind of imaginary.

Now, again, international agreements often begin with broad frameworks. That's not a surprise. But if that is acceptable under Trump, why wasn't it acceptable under Obama? And number two, why does Trump have to lie about it? I would much rather than just go, hey, listen, we've made progress. We now have a date set for negotiations. We have an MOU with some basics. Doesn't include everything.

Just tell us the truth. Let let us parse it. But instead, it's this victory claiming by Trump while there is every indication that the stuff that was supposedly really bad from Obama's deal is in this thing as well. If the deal allows Iran access to massive sums of money doesn't require ending ballistic missiles development, doesn't require ending support for terrorist and proxy groups, then why is it better than the Obama deal? It, the answer is it's probably not. I said months ago, they are going to end up best case with a weaker version of the Obama deal. And that is exactly what it looks

like is going to happen. And then J.D. Vance goes and talks to Sean Hannity. And then we kind of get a sense of, boy, this is even worse than we thought. J.D. Vance gave a hilariously bad interview to Fox News as Sean Hannity, who for reasons I can't really determine Hannity is sounding more like Mark Levin, something is up with Hannity's voice, but that's not really the focus of this story. The entire concept of this Trump victory deal came crashing down on live TV and was it was made evident that this is really a surrender, not a victory. First and foremost, J.D. Vance, the vice president admits that Trump's Iran deal, which is not a deal yet, it's just a letter, doesn't even have the issue of nuclear inspection settled. You can,

say a lot of things about the Obama-Iran nuclear deal. You could say the nuclear inspections weren't significant enough or we couldn't really know whether Iran was sticking to it, all things which are disputed, by the way. You could make criticisms. But J.D. Vans is going, we don't even know what's going to be in there as far as inspections go. What? So then how is your main claim that this guarantees Iran will never have a nuclear weapon? How can you even make that claim when you don't even know what sort of requirements are going to be part of the deal. Let's talk about any place, anywhere, anytime U.S. inspectors. That's part of the deal.

Yeah, that's absolutely something that we are negotiating over Sean. That's one of the final details that's going to be figured out here is if you go back to the original Obama JCP. That is absolutely, Sean, something that will be negotiated. Oh boy. There are a couple of big problems with it. Number one, by the way, is that the Gulf Arabs hated the O, Obama deal. Why? Because they thought that it empowered the Iranians to be a malign actor. It actually

enriched the Iranians while they were misbehaving. This deal, the Gulf Arabs love, because they know that this is the kind of deal that could fundamentally transform the Middle East. Another problem with that deal is that the inspections regime was effectively non-existent. There was a little bit there, but it was basically non-existent. This goes back to our fundamental principle here, that if they show verifiable commitment, and that means a real inspections regime, then they can, can get the benefits of the bargain. Wow, that's a lot of hypotheticals there. Seems like it would be important that there is extensive inspection capability without prior notice because that's what you all said the Obama deal didn't have, right? Well, that is going to be subject to negotiation.

What a strong deal. We're all, it's already going south in pathetic fashion. Hannity getting to the next issue. Has Iran agreed never to enrich uranium? And Vance goes, well, there's a lot of technical details over the next couple of months that will be figured out. Folks, Trump said on Sunday the deal is done. It's just got to be signed on Friday. Then it's well, Friday there will be negotiations. And now Vance goes, it's going to be a month to two months of figuring this stuff out.

Fundamentally destroy their program, but that does set them back a little bit further. And that's important, of course, to the United States of America. And they're agreeing never to enrich. They're agreeing right now to eliminate the enriched stockpile. By the way, that's not even true, but I'll get back to that. And if they don't get to a point where they agree to stop enriching, then they don't get the other benefits of the bargain. And that's the way, that's the way this is set up is a lot of the technical details we're going to figure out over the next month, over the next two months. But the basic structure is they can get a lot if they comply with the United States demands.

And how do we enforce that compliance? J.D. Vance says, well, that's got to be negotiated. Now, what's funny is this whole thing of their, they're going to get rid of their enriched uranium. I don't think they are. There's a practical limitation, which is that a lot of that enriched uranium, Trump calls it nuclear dust, is buried below the rubble that resulted from American bombing of Iran. So there's a practical question as to like, how do you even get to that enriched uranium? But Trump is already off ramping. I think Trump has been notified. it's almost certainly going to be impossible to get them to give that up for practical or political reasons. And Trump has started to say, well, I don't even really know that we need them to do that.

We'll play that clip later. But Vance is going, no, no, no, they've agreed to get rid of the enriched uranium. Trump is already like, I don't even know that we care about that. J.D. Vance then says Trump is a deeply spiritual person. He really is a person of faith, even if he doesn't show it. This is so funny, because Trump is one of the least religious presidents that we've had, which is fine. I don't evaluate Trump's presidency based on whether he is or isn't religious, but we know that Trump was not raised religious. He was never religious. He found religion to run for president.

And J.D. Vance goes, no, he's very, very deep faith. And it's so different than President Trump in many ways. However, your relationship is phenomenal. Yeah. And even, you even attacked him in 2020. Well, in 2016. But what is interesting about President Trump is he doesn't wear it on a sleeve, but he is a person of faith. Yeah, deeply spiritual. He really is.

He does, like all of us, I think, think about these very deep questions. Where do we come from? Where are we going? And, you know, fundamentally, I think the president, he recognizes that some of the people who have been best to him, who have been critical parts of him getting to the presidency now two times, arguably three times. times they were Christians. Yeah, Trump is not religious and Trump did not get the presidency arguably three times. He lost in 2020. He lost.

He lost in the sense that Joe Biden won. Joe Biden won the presidency. Trump lost it. That's it. Finally, J.D. Vance weighing in on Barack Obama. Oh, the bonus show where you- Whoops, wrong clip. Obama now.

There it is. And he says, why was the Obama deal so bad, but ours is so liked by the Saudi, by the Gulf states. Obama took a shot and said, I don't think this deal is any better than the deal we had before. The JCPOA was dramatically different than what you were describing here. Why can Hannity barely speak, by the way? And I'd ask the former president, I'd say, Obama, why in the world, if it's the same thing, why is it that the Gulf Arabs hated your deal and they love our deal?

They are the ones who are in the region. They know what it means to enrich the worst terrorist. regime in the world. And they also know what it means to turn over a new leaf. And this is all just a complete and total lie. So a couple different things. The Obama deal was better than anything that's being discussed right now insofar as it was stronger. We've broken down those details before. The question of the Gulf states hating the Obama deal and loving the Trump deal, number one, we don't even know what the Trump deal is yet because he still hasn't. There is no deal. We We have a letter of understanding, which hasn't even been released and the negotiations haven't

even started. What is different is that Trump has created such a chaotic and negative situation, destructive situation in the Middle East for a lot of these other Gulf states that they are desperate to end the war for economic reasons. And that is a very different thing than we think the deal is actually stronger. They want an off ramp from the war because it's been such a disaster. Don't confuse desperation with approval. Trump has been so erratic that they're like, we got to end this thing somehow.

some deal in place. Some deal is better than nothing. It's not we like it better than the Obama deal. It's we like it better than no deal. We have learned over the last 24 hours. There is no deal as of right now. Some of the key things that are supposed to be in the deal are still subject to negotiation. And the biggest, most devilish disaster of the Obama deal that Iran gets sanctions relief in the form of money, releasing their money, is likely to be three X bigger. in the eventual deal that is being negotiated. The United States has surrendered. It's an optional war Trump started and they have surrendered. Embarrassing stuff. A lot of men's clothing forces the same bad trade-off. If the material feels good and the fit is decent, the price is ridiculous. If the price

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The link is in the description. One thing that drives me nuts about political media is how two outlets can cover the same story and make it feel like two different events took place, not because any of the facts have changed, but because the emphasis of the stories is different. This is why I use ground news because ground news pulls together reporting from across the political spectrum and you can compare the headlines side by side and see how different outlets are framing the exact same issue. You can look at the bias distribution. You can look at factuality ratings. You can see who owns the outlets behind the reporting, which makes it easier to separate

the substance from the spin. For example, Trump's EPA recently decided to remove limits on those forever chemicals in drinking water. Ground news shows how outlets like PBS and Ross story are getting it right and right wing outlets put this anti-Biden spin on it or they just stay very vague to avoid implicating Donald Trump. Ground News also has a blind spot feed. This is for stories that are underreported by one side. And you can also get a personalized feed based on your interests, go to ground.news slash Pacman or scan my QR code to get 40% off the ground news vantage plan. The link is in the description. Donald Trump raising major concerns he flew to the G7 summit and arrived barely conscious, seemingly unable to speak, shaking hands in one of the strangest ways

I've ever seen. Look at Trump here as he greets French president, Emmanuel, Macron. His voice is shot. He talks about UFC. He shakes hand. It's like a vertical handshake. I've never seen anything like it. But look at Trump's demeanor. He is barely conscious while speaking. Look at his hand. It's a mess. It's rotting. His brain is crumbling. The worst Trump has ever looked has been in the last 12 hours. What the hell? So I want to congratulate the president last night. Cyril Gahn won the fight against a great fighter, supposed to be unbeatable. And that was it. Cyril is from France. Did you watch the fight? Yeah. Nothing's that right. But I saw it this one. That was a great fight. It was a great evening at the White House.

Something is very wrong. And when they sat down, Trump almost dozed off as the French president was speaking. This is he he's struck visibly struggling to remain conscious. First, it will fix the nuclear issue. And it's a very important matter for the whole world. And it will reopen almost. It will provide peace in Lebanon. And so we are ready to take our fair share of the burden and be part of the, the, the

commitment of the international community in order to support this deal. And we will discuss about that together. Trump just grunting a cent. Nah, hold on. Do I have it? Well, no, that's too much energy. Ah, ha, ha, ah, ah, ah, ladies and gentlemen. That's the right energy.

This, that's Trump's energy right here in this image with his eyes. Ladies and gentlemen. Okay. He is being graded on a curve. Trump shows up barely conscious and does a bizarre vertical handshake. And Fox News goes, it's incredible that he's even awakened able to walk. Was that the standard for Joe Biden? No. We are grading Trump on a curve now.

They're talking about something. My main observation so far is that this is the first time I've seen a world leader photo where the other leader, not Donald Trump, gave a thumbs up. and the president just kept his hands at its size. The fact that he could even walk, Peter, given all he's been through in the last 24 hours, I think really is quite remarkable. He's got to be beyond exhausted. Do you realize he sat and slept through a UFC fight?

That is completely exhausting, completely exhausting. In another strange moment, Donald Trump did his bizarre handshake tug of war with the First Lady of France, Brigitte Macron. And it's really weird. And as you all know, when Trump has historically tried the handshake games with President Macron, Macron's ready for it and it doesn't go well. So Trump seems to go, all right, well, I'm going to try to pull on Brigitte McCrone's on.

Dear God. All right. So then what these are all, we're setting the stage. Trump vertical handshake slumped into a chair, barely awake, barely audible. we get to the substance. And on the substance, Donald Trump suggests that winning the White House UFC fight is more important than winning the World Cup. What?

Incredible evenings in the history of the White House. We had an evening last night with the fighters and I was very happy. I called last night, very late last night to congratulate you because in the heavyweight division, a French fighter one. I don't know, is that maybe more important than the World Cup? To some people, it might. To some people, it might be more important than the World Cup. It just so happens that the World Cup is the most watch sporting event globally. Five billion viewers. Trump's dilapidated, scammy, white house UFC fight does not hold a candle to it. Many of you will notice I'm wearing my Argentinian soccer jersey today.

Argentina does open with the first game of the world. World Cup tonight. And for many, for many years now, from this is the third World Cup on game days. I do wear the jersey for people who are confused. The white the White House UFC fight, not as interesting, not as exciting. Okay. Then let's get into the real stuff. We don't have a deal. Fine. Trump said we have a deal with Iran. We don't have a deal. We have a letter. A memorandum of understanding an MOU. Reporter says when will it be released? So at least we can see that. Trump goes, I mean, I guess pretty soon, I don't know. The Obama one was bad though.

Maybe he involved, I may not, but JD was coming in for that specifically. Thank you. Mr. President, when will the text of the MOU be released? I think pretty soon. I would say, I mean, I wanted to be released because it's a very powerful document. It's not like the Obama document, which was just a terrible document. This is a very powerful document and I want it to be released. So probably pretty soon.

I would say after sometime after Friday because the straight opens, it's open now, but it opens completely. We have all the minds knock out of for the most, but we have a lot of lanes right now already. So I think sometime. Trump wants it to be released. Dude, you could take it out and read it out loud right now. No, no, he's the president of the United States. I want it to be released.

He is obsessed with Barack Obama. He is so jealous of Barack Obama that it is shocking that he has made his entire second term, first term to a degree and second term goal, not only to wreak revenge upon his political enemies, but to try to undo anything Barack Obama did and stick his name on stuff. Release it. I'd like it to be released. You're in charge. Finally, Donald Trump indicating that there were bribes in the Obama-Iran nuclear deal.

Well, there was $100 billion in sanctions relief. And by all reports, Donald Trump's version of the deal would include $300 billion of sanctions relief. I guess Trump's bribing them too. So we had two big moments when they terminated the JCPOA. That was the Obama deal, the Barack Hussein Obama deal. And when I terminated that it was very Imagine being Macron and having to sit there with a straight face during this nonsense Because it was a road to a nuclear weapon

It was a horrible deal for the United States It was a deal where billions of dollars was given to Iran It was a deal where 1.7 billion in cash was put on a Boeing 7 Well, not a 7 57, I guess, right? But it was put on a big, beautiful Boeing 757 They needed a Boeing 747 to be honest with you because it was a lot of cash. 1.7 billion was taken out of the banks and given to Iran and on top of that tens of billions of dollars was paid.

So they tried to bribe them to make a deal. And that didn't work. It never works. And we- By that definition of bribe, there's a bribe in Trump's deal as well, an even bigger bribe. These are not serious people. And the American economy and global war and peace is in the hands of these shrivelled, pathetic minds, if you can even call them that. But after all this, I guess Trump slept a few hours, and then early this morning came back to take questions, raising even more concerns about his mental state. The allegations that Trump is medically unfit to participate in the G7 summit explode after

Trump in a demented rant threatened to nuke an entire country. Dear God, what is happening at the G7 summit? Is it time finally to remove grandpa from power? Trump asked, why not release the text of the Iran deal? Come on. We looked at an earlier segment from yesterday when Trump goes, I would love for it to be released. It's your deal. You could release it any time.

You're in charge of everything. You could say release it. You could read it out loud to us like story time. And Trump goes, oh, I'm going to. Well, why not now? And here is Donald Trump's explanation. Just in the text of the document. Why not release the time?

Oh, I will. Why don't release it before? Well, because I'd like to get a formal setting first before we do that. But I have no problem with that. It's great document. Here's what it says. Iran will never have a nuclear weapon. That's what it says.

have one to buy, to develop, they will not have a nuclear weapon. And I would say that's about 99.9% of what I wanted. Wait a second. What about regime change? What about ballistics missiles? What about all those that? No, no, no, no, no. That's none of that. We couldn't let that happen. You couldn't let that happen. And they won't have a nuclear weapon. Now, in addition to that, the straight is going to be open toll free. And it's toll free beyond the same. 888 straight of of Vermuth, toll free, lines are open. 60 days, it's not, somebody said, oh, it's tall free for a sit.

No, no, it's tall free, period. That when it opens permanently, it'll be tall free. I want to congratulate our Navy because the naval blockade was unbelievable. But we said you've got to open it and we're going to close it on top of that. And we closed it so strongly, but it shouldn't be closed. It should be open and it was open until we closed it. But then they said they'd open and they closed. So we closed it on top of that.

Crystal clear, sir. Crystal clear. People are wondering, is this guy non-compostmentus? It just doesn't make sense to talk this way. Trump then wildly threatens to nuke Iran. Listen to what he says. Iran will never have a nuclear weapon. And it says it loud and clear.

They're not going to develop it. They're not going to buy it. They're not going to do anything with it. And if they do, they suffer unbelievably. consequences, not just a little bit like, I won't even tell you the consequences, but the consequences are the ultimate consequences. I got to be careful. I can't just say I'll nuke them into oblivion, but it would be the biggest consequence.

It would be the ultimate consequence. The president of the United States in the middle of supposed negotiations, which I guess we believe are going on, although you can never really be too sure with Trump. is saying, if not, I'll nuke you. Dear God, what a situation we are in. Trump says everything other than the nuke part is irrelevant to the deal. Disagreings about one thing that Iran will never have a nuclear weapon. Never, ever, ever.

The rest of it's irrelevant, frankly. Why then did the White House play up the importance of so many? other reasons to go into Iran in the first place. Why were we given other justifications? This is about getting the Ayatollah out and changing the regime, which of course failed. It's the same regime, different person at the top of the regime. This is about eliminating ballistic missiles capabilities, which wasn't done and doesn't even appear to be part of the deal as far as we know right now.

Trump is insisting that the only important thing is that which he might be able to get in the deal. And to be perfectly frank, I don't even know that it will necessarily. be in the deal. Trump is asked, how can we make sure that the straight of Hormuz is never again closed? And Trump goes, well, by having a strong president. But they closed it while Trump was president. So I guess by that definition, he's not strong. Yes. Nice looking person. Is he from your country? Is he from your country?

No, he's got such a nice way about it. My people are still, they're so mean. Be careful. No, I can put him. I can put him in. in a movie right now. Go ahead. Mr. President, how can we make sure that straight performance is lasting for, open for lasting navigation in the future? Have a United States with a strong president. It's the only way you can do it, I guess, when you think we have all the agreements you want.

The agreements for bad people don't mean anything. Look, we were the ones that blockaded the sheet. They blockaded it. And we then said, well, we blockaded it for them, so they didn't get it. them so they didn't get any oil. You're going to need to have, and this is true with a lot of things, if you have a strong president of the United States, a lot of good things can happen. Iran will never close the straight of Hormuz for as long as the United States has a strong president. Well, they closed it and Trump was president. By that very definition, Trump must not be

strong. And maybe what I believe is the most incredible moment of this entire thing, Trump is now backing away from getting Iran's enriched nuclear material. J.D. goes, we're going to get that nuclear material, that enriched uranium. And Trump goes, you know what? Why even bother? It's not very valuable stuff. He is not going to be able to get the enriched uranium. And he is acknowledging that. So the atomic energy just reported that it was one of the most devastating bombies that they've had. It was the whole mountain collapsed on top of it. And frankly, to go get a week, we're going to go get it. But to go get it is a big deal because they say only China and us have the equipment

where you can even get the whole mountain is collapsed on top. We have cameras on it. You could make the case why are you even bothering because it's not really valuable. It's probably half a million dollars worth it's not very valuable. Guys, I don't think we're getting the enriched uranium. No matter how many times J.D. Vance says to Sean Hannity that we're going to get it. I understand why people are saying, I don't know that this guy's cognitively fit for the presidency. This is terrifying, terrifying behavior.

If you've been paying attention to recent events, you've seen how the line between church and state is blurring, how religion can be brought into public life in ways that raise real constitutional questions. That doesn't just affect one issue. It shapes policy, shapes rights, and how power operates broadly. Our sponsor, the Freedom from Religion Foundation, works to protect separation of church and state because it protects you and it protects me. As we approach the 250th anniversary of the United States, the question isn't just what we celebrate. It's what do we defend. Visit ffrf.u. slash David or text my name, David, to 511, 511, to learn more or to join because protecting that separation protects our rights.

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Pacman. With the code Pacman, the link is in the description. It's a pleasure to welcome again to the conversation, Robert Reich, former U.S. Secretary of Labor, U.C. Berkeley, Professor Emeritus, and author of a number of interesting books, some of which we have previously spoken about in conversation. As always, I really appreciate your time and the opportunity to chat a little bit. Well, David, I appreciate your time also, and thank you for inviting me. You know, you wrote a very interesting substack piece on your very interesting substack, Robert Reich.substack.com. And I'm going to do my best to paraphrase and recount it. You recounted a conversation someone described to you about a dinner during which the possibility

of an early removal of office for Donald Trump was discussed. And the attendees sort of expressed that they think the best chance, which only has about a 30% chance. So it's still a probably no, but it's the best chance, would be a sort of game theory-esque going from one person to the next based on the incentives that would appeal to them to try to get to a 25th Amendment removal of Donald Trump. And we'll link to the piece. People should look at it. But it's sort of like, listen, J.D. Vance's interest would be he would become the president. And Marco, So Rubio's interest might be, with the dext cleared for Vance in 28, maybe Rubio gets a shot in 32. It's sort of like how you would go through and convince one person at a time.

In the aftermath to you publishing this piece, what sort of feedback have you gotten, have you gotten the feedback from some that, listen, we've got to focus on what happens when he leaves in January of 29 rather than these sorts of schemes. I mean, give us a sense of what people have said. Well, some people said that they really hope that these political operatives who I had dinner with and who gave me this kind of scheme that they had heard about. They really hope that it's going to come to fruition and fruition as soon as possible. Other people said, no way. I mean, this is just pie in the sky.

Let's stop even dreaming about this. Let's focus on the midterms, and then let's focus after that on winning. the next election. There is an undercurrent, obviously, David, of people and they are political operatives or they are, you know, people who are intensely interested in politics and who know about the Constitution, know the 25th Amendment, who think that this is increasingly possible because this man named Donald Trump is, they say, and I hear it more often than I've ever heard before out of his mind. I mean, not only is he a malignant narcissist, as we all know, but his sociopathic tendencies, his paranoid tendencies, his sort of kind of over 80-year-old

losing it tendencies are getting wilder and wilder, and it is in the interest of the nation that the 25th Amendment be invoked. And I'm hearing that from many quarters. One of the things that's interesting is it seems as though Donald Trump over the last couple of years, especially the last couple of months, has started to soften a little bit on the Biden cognitive decline story. And it was very interesting just last week to see Donald Trump sort of say, hey, you know what? That debate, really it was I had a great debate. I don't know how much cognitive decline there really was. When Biden visited me, he actually seemed completely. find as the stories about Trump have grown, he seems to be taking, and I hate to use the word empathetic with Trump, but a slightly more empathetic approach to Biden. I'm interested in what. David, if you, excuse me for interrupting you. He is not empathic or empathetic. There is no cell in his body that we might recognize as empathic or empathetic. No, Donald Trump is I think it's self-serving. He's purely, he's what he's doing.

doing, he suddenly got into his head, he's 80 years old, and he's losing it, and therefore maybe comments about Biden losing it should no longer be particularly operative. I think he is aware of his decline. I don't think he's aware of how much he's declining. That's very interesting. And I agree that it seems extraordinarily self-serving. When people write to me in my audience, the ones who are in their 70s are much more muted about what's happening with Trump. And I wonder, you're obviously a much younger man than Trump, but as someone who is in a, of his generation, we might say, I'm curious as to what you observe, because I hear from my audience members who are 72, 74, 76, et cetera, who say, listen, none of the things we're seeing really are

decline. This is just normal aging. And I wonder to what degree that's something they've concluded maybe based on being in that age range themselves, if the question makes sense. Well, it's an interesting and important question. Let me be very, very candid about this because I am 10 days younger than Donald Trump, which means that in nine days from now, I'm going to also be 80 years old. Now, if you are 79 on the verge of 80, if you are commencing your ninth decade on the earth, you don't have as much, let's say, pizzazz as you had before. Your mind is not working quite as quickly. Your brain is still, hopefully, I mean, I like to think that my brain is pretty good,

but there are a lot of people I know who are my age who are slowing way down in terms of their brain functions. Now, the difference between this normal aging and dementia is real. I mean, dementia is a state of kind of lack of brain function that has to do with plaque in the brain. It has to do with things that are, you know, a lot of kind of different kinds of Alzheimer's, for example, is a form of dementia.

I have some friends who have Alzheimer's. I have some friends who are deep into other forms of dementia. But let's be clear, once you're in the 80-year-old plateau, there are a lot of things that can go wrong, not only physically, but also mentally. I would not be comfortable, even with me being president of the United States, let alone Donald Trump, who began his presidency in 2016, much younger than he is now, he was already kind of weird and had some mental problems, clearly. Now, I think they are much more severe. To shift gears a little bit, one of the other

themes you write about often on your substack is authoritarianism and the anti-democratic tendencies of this administration. I don't know if you saw this, but about 10 days ago, the White House put out a list of content creators that they have labeled media offenders. It started with three people, and I was one of the people on that list. Thank you. I appreciate it. It really is. I mean, my mom is so proud. I have to tell you. When we think about enemies lists and media enemies lists, there's a very ugly history of regimes hostile to democracy that have employed this. Can you? Can you? you talk a little bit about the attitude that would sort of go with a predisposition to say,

let's make such a list? In other words, what are the sort of attitudes towards democracy that are probably lurking in there when one makes such a list? Well, to put it very, very clearly, David, anybody who makes such a list has a tendency, if they are in government, not to pay much attention to democracy, not to feel that their major responsibility is to strengthen democracy and the institutions of democracy, but rather to be slightly paranoid and to be concerned about their own political survival. I think Donald Trump is an extreme version. I don't think he thinks about democratic institutions or democracy at all. I mean, I don't think it enters into his head. I think all he thinks about quite clearly is wealth and power and how to maintain it,

how to enlarge his wealth, how to enlarge his power, and how to get even with people who have in some way obstructed his acquisition of wealth and power. What do you think the end game is with some of the conspiracy theories that, of course, will never be proven? We're now six years in. to the 2020 election was stolen. And as recently as last week, the president said, we're going to blow your mind with this evidence, which is coming out very soon. And of course, it's been six years. There is no evidence because it wasn't stolen. Joe Biden just won in the same way that I believe Trump just won in 2024. How does it work when is the idea that at some point Trump will be

gone and nobody will ever talk about the 2020 was stolen thing again? Or what's the off ramp from this? Well, here's my immediate concern that with the 2026 midterms coming up, Donald Trump sees this blue tsunami. It's not just a blue wave. Now, I mean, it really is a blue tsunami coming at him at Congress. He is fearful of losing control of Congress. Not just the House, but actually there is a very, very significant possibility he could lose the Senate. How does he respond? Well, his easiest and most knee-jerk response to this is to question the voting process, to use the weapon that he has used before. And if you looked at his Meet the Press interview, a week, well, it was aired, I guess, about a week and a half ago, he said that it's all crooks. You're all crooks, it's all criminal, all the voting that's going on, and he particularly was referencing California. He aims, it seems to me, to call into question democratic states and voting in democratic cities, and he is going to do everything he can to not only call into question

those votes, but also to make those votes in democratic cities and democratic states, a question in the 2016 election in terms of certification, just as he did in 2020. This is his playbook. What's the best way to get ahead of that? Because I feel like Democrats often are sort of, hey, here's what they're going to try.

Right. And then so what? It's like, well, we'll have lawyers on standby. But is there a way to be more proactive with this? I think there is. I think Democratic governors have got to, really be outspoken about their election process. I mean, right now, Gavin Newsom is coming under a lot of attack for the, how slow the vote count was in California, in the primaries in California.

Well, Gavin Newsom should be out there saying, we were slow. I'll tell you exactly why. Here's what happened, and we're going to do everything to make it more efficient, but voting sometimes is slow. And my responsibility as a governor is. to make sure democracy works, et cetera. He's got to be taking that initiative, not letting Republicans take the initiative and pointing the finger of blame at California. Same thing with any place else around the country where Democrat and Democratic cities, I think mayors have got to say, we are taking democracy seriously. Don't even imply that there is anything wrong with our voting here. We are going to attack you back, Donald Trump,

if you even insinuate that there is anything wrong with our voting here. What's your sense at this point of, as we think about 2026 and even into 2028, the direction that the Democratic Party should go? Barney Frank, for example, days before passing away, made this appearance with Jake Tapper on CNN, where I'm paraphrasing, but he sort of said, like, don't go too far left on the social stuff. It was obviously much more detailed and complex than that, but that was sort of a message, like, don't go overboard with left on social issues going forward. Do you have a sense ideologically of where this party should go? Absolutely. The Democratic Party should be economic populists. I mean,

right now, we have more wealth and power at the top of this country than ever before, including the First Guild of Age. It is a, you know, Elon Musk, Donald Trump, Trump, the corruption at the top, is something that Democrats ought to be complaining about, pointing at. They ought to be saying the only way we deal with this is to make our economy more democratic. They ought to be talking about economic democracy. They ought to be talking about getting big money out of American politics. They ought to be talking about making the system work for average working people. I mean, this is not radically new, David, but this is the time.

for that kind of a plank. This is the time for that kind of a Democratic Party. This is more of a strategy question, but to what degree should the proposals be specific? And I'll give you an example of what I mean. I've had so many conversations with elected Democratic members of the House and Senate where they say, we've got to tax the rich more. Great. Okay. Raising the income tax rate won't help because they mostly don't earn income. Okay, so next thing is, well, you got to raise the capital gains rate. Fine. That applies when you make a transaction and there are realized gains and at that point you tax. They can just borrow. So what do you do? David, you're already, you're already, you're all right. You've already lost 90% of right. I mean, exactly. What you've got to do? There's got to be a wealth tax. Okay. That's what you think, a wealth tax. That's going to be part of the Democratic platform. There's also, you've got to be a wealth tax. There's also you've got to. raise the minimum wage. You've got to provide people, all workers need to have some of their pay in the form of wealth benefits. That is, they've got to have some part of the profits of profitable

corporations. Profit sharing has got to be part of what the Democrats stand for. Strengthening unions has got to be part of the Democratic platform. You take five or six things that absolutely illustrate clearly economic populism. That is why this is this kind of Elon Muskification of the economy is dangerous for everyone. It's bad for everyone, including people at the top. I mean, if there's all the wealth and power at the top and all the income at the top, who is going to be able to afford to buy all of the stuff that the American economy is capable of producing. I mean, it's bad for corporations, bad for CEOs to have this kind of top-heavy economy. This is what Democrats need to be saying over and over again. Social Security is facing a crisis.

Well, you've raised a cap of income that is subject to Social Security. That's simple for people to understand. That's what Democrats. The cap on Social Security makes a lot of sense. Here's my question on the wealth tax, and I say this as someone who ideologically and morally is in favor of it, but in my research of it, I've come across a couple of issues. One is, in European countries where it's been tried, tax revenue went down and it was ultimately abandoned because people changed their behavior in order to avoid the tax. That to me is, okay, they tried it and it had the opposite effect because the idea is let's get more tax revenue, revenue went down.

That's one area of concern. And I'll mention one more and then you can address any or all of them as you wish. The other one is there are situations where if the government gets into, we're going to include collectable art as an example and tax that. Now the government needs to assess the value of fine art and also collect the tax on something that's illiquid. It seems problematic, but tell me where, what am I misunderstanding about it, I guess is the question. Well, your two points are easily responded to. First of all, in Europe, you have relatively, relative to the United States economy, relatively small states, small economies, where people can easily either hide their wealth or they move to another place where the wealth is not taxed. In the United States, we have the biggest, you know, the biggest economy, the biggest political economy in the world. People are not going to, they certainly they're going to want to hide their wealth, but it's much hard. and also in the United States, you can't easily leave the United States. Some people will, but most people don't want to leave the United States to hold onto their wealth.

And let me tell you one other thing, David, if they want to leave the United States to hold onto their wealth, goodbye. Let them go. We don't want them. Even the economic productivity that their business, you know, we hear about the businesses will leave sort of stuff. We don't care. Their businesses are not going to leave. I mean, even a state as small in Massachusetts raised its taxes on the people at the very top, and it actually worked. Massachusetts got more revenue. People did not leave Massachusetts.

California. There's a big, you know, all of the California billionaires, including Sergey Brin, are trying to stop this billionaire tax in California. Well, they're saying that everybody's going to leave California. if the billionaire tax, why are they so intent on stopping it if it's so easy for them to leave California? The fact is that they don't want to leave California. That's why they are so intent on stopping it. Well, I think one thing with the California one that's smart from the standpoint of avoiding that is it's retroactive back to residence prior to when the vote would take place, which is a pretty slick move,

you have to say. Well, it's a slick move, but Sergey Brin and all of the rest of the billionaires who were sinking money and just trying to stop it, they knew it was coming. It's not as if this was a surprise to them. We all saw this coming. So I think that there are these, all of these smokes that people are putting up, these ridiculous arguments. We have a capital gains tax. We measure capital gains. It's easy to measure capital gains. Yes, there are some questions about how you appraise art. Well, that's not the biggest issue here. I mean, the biggest issue, quite frankly, is that billionaires and multi-billionaires and Elon Musk, who's a trillionaire, what they do is they borrow against their huge fortunes for their living expenses so they don't show little or no actual income for a year. And that should not be allowed. Last thing I want to ask you about, and I'll let you go.

Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez recently said she thinks one of the maybe most useful political rhetoric tools leading up to this next midterm and maybe even beyond that could cross party lines is not arguing about tax rates, not talking about transports, et cetera. But it's pointing out all of the places where your tax money, my tax money, everybody's tax money is being spent on stuff that is universally unpopular. the UFC fight that just took place at the White House, for example, the reflecting pool contract where we've, now the algae is back. I read today. The whole thing didn't even work. Or that your tax money, look at what they are spending it on. Maybe a very economically, you know, that's not going to call. I mean, we are spending, I mean, but what, what Trump wants to do is, is increase the defense budget, which is already grotesquely huge to $1.5 trillion. I mean, what about it?

What about that as a waste? Look what happened. And, you know, he's claiming that we have this big victory in Iran. Well, there's no victory in Iran. I mean, in fact, we are worse off than we were before he started bombing Iran. Talk about waste. Talk about what we as a nation could and should be doing with these billions and trillions of dollars that we're spending on the military, in addition to all of the, you know, gilded gold leaf

that Trump is putting all around Washington, I mean, yes, AOC is absolutely right. It's absurd. And then you look at the corruption, the self-dealing, the pay to play that's going on in Washington right now. And you have another thing that Democrats ought to be talking about in terms of what we as a nation ought to be doing with money instead of of, instead of allowing this corruption, this corporate welfare, this kind of a cozy relationship between corporations and the government to continue. I think the Democrat, this is the hour for the Democrats. If the Democrats don't take advantage, David, of all of the evidence right now, of the intrinsic corruption between wealth and power, we see, the way. The way

that that corruption represents and how that takes away from all of us. In other words, do exactly what Peter Magyar did in taking on Victor Orban. Then Democrats are missing the biggest possibility and the most obvious campaign issue that Democrats have had since 1932. Let's hope they don't miss it. We're going to be watching very closely. You can follow Robert Reich's writing at Robert Reich. substack.com. I'm a subscriber. I really appreciate your time and your insights as always. So good to talk to you. Appreciate you. Thank you, David. Take care. We'll talk to you soon. Bye. The David Packman Show is an audience supported program and the best most direct way to support

the show is by becoming a member at join packman.com. You'll get the daily bonus show, the daily commercial free show, and plenty of other great membership. Perks, get the full experience by signing up at join packman.com. Tell me whether you believe this. It would be bad enough for Donald Trump to use emergency provisions to repaint the Lincoln Memorial reflecting pool when it's a process that's supposed to go through bidding. That would be bad enough. It would be bad enough if a no bid contract was given out for the project.

That would already be like, okay, this is terrible. This is corrupt. This is no good. be bad enough if your taxpayer money was given out for the project without a competitive bidding process. That's all terrible. It's bad enough. It wouldn't need to be any worse for us to say we denounce it.

This is deplorable. But now the problem is back. The entire reason this was done, algae blooming in the water, looking like crap, according to Donald Trump, is back. It started last week, workers were seen cleaning the algae out of the pool. And then over the weekend, during Donald Trump's big UFC birthday fight weekend, the algae was already back. Now this started, the project started in April.

It was finished last week. It was filthy. It was dirty. It was un-American and unpatriotic, according to Donald Trump. An emergency. We've got to give out a, what was originally a one point something million dollar contract ended up being like 12 or 13 million. We were going to fix it, though. Once it was renovated, it would look beautiful.

The country would be respected again and all that crap. The algae is back. Interior department spokesperson says, oh, this is residual algae. It's old algae that was already in the supply lines. It's not really a problem. Very serious doubts about that because the algae came back last week and was removed. And then it came back over the weekend. It was removed.

And reportedly this morning, there are videos from me. this morning of people at the reflecting pool and the algae is back. Here is Doug Bergam saying that this is one of the things we've got it. One of the reasons this is so urgent is because of that algae. We got to get the algae out. We're going to pump stuff in from the Potomac. They closed for two years, $35 million. Two weeks later, there's photos you can see in articles from the Washington Post. You can pull up that showed this thing was it was a full on algae explosion turned green. You know, after I think him, President Trump's like, no.

So we've got the latest technology. Trump said, no, we will not have algae in this thing. We are going to put in technology. We will spend less money, I guess, even though it ended up being 13 million already. And the renovated reflecting pool is now full of algae. I'll remind you, Atlantic industrial coatings was paid around $14 million of your money to line the pool the color of American flag blue. It was supposed to cost a million and change and ended up costing nearly 10 times that. Eddie Wood, the owner of Atlantic industrial

coatings, was asked about what's going on. And he said, my company did a great job lining the pool. Turned out perfectly, he said. Now, he may not be wrong in the sense that they just did the lining. That doesn't have to do with the algae. The algae is the problem that supposedly was going to be solved by the entire project, and it simply isn't solved by changing the lining. Is this what you voted for? Remember when we were told, oh, Trump's going to run government like a business. Turns out Trump's not that good at running businesses.

That's maybe the problem. Trump and his supporters, though, love to argue what we need to bring to government is someone from the private sector with private sector efficiency and private sector instincts and know-how. If a private company spent $14 million solving a problem and the problem returned almost immediately, shareholders would be furious. Government projects, you know, it's very popular to slam government projects because there was a cost overrun. There's a lack of accountability. That's swamp stuff. Trump said, we're going to drain the swamp. We're going to fix all of this. And they didn't do it. The pool was

originally expected to cost a million and a half. It cost 10 times that amount and the algae is back. So where's the accountability? Just tell me where the accountability is. It would be great to hold someone accountable for this thing. And you know that if this happened under a Democratic administration, they'd be saying we need a hearing. Was the person who did this competent? Why was an emergency declaration used to do as a no bid contract? And it's kind of funny, because a lot of the Trump administration focuses on aesthetics. What do things look like? What's the presentation?

What are the optics? Let's add gold leaf and all this different crap. This was literally a project about aesthetics. It was about let's make it look better. Not let's improve some government service or provide for people. It looks bad. It's got to look better. They spent $14 million.

It briefly improves, I guess, in that the, what, they drained the thing, the algae was gone. And then it just reverts back to exactly where we started. And it's kind of a metaphorical reality about the Trump administration, a cosmetic fix that doesn't address the underlying problem here, which is actually the algae and a whole bunch of other stuff, not the color of the liner. Are you happy with how your money was spent? Is there a MAGA in my audience who can seriously write in and say, this was a great project, David.

They did it and they did it right. If so, I want to hear from you because it's hard to think of something more pathetic. For years, MAGA and Trump complained the Justice Department is being weaponized against political opponents. Joe Biden is weaponizing the Justice Department against his political adversaries and opponents. And of course, that wasn't true. then in comes Trump and he is doing that. And now he is doing that specifically to Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, as well as his wife.

Gavin Newsome announced and according to new reporting, federal investigators are examining Gavin and Jennifer Siebel Newsom's lives with suggestion that what is being looked at is Jennifer Siebel Newsom's nonprofit activities and her tax filings. Gavin Newsom is taking the opportunity to come out swinging against Donald Trump. Remember that they are doing this in a number of ways. Your favorite podcaster me, hold on. That's that's unfair. Your favorite left-handed Jewish Argentinian American podcaster me was put on a list by the federal government. You go to whitehouse.gov. You go to their media. section, you go to media offenders. I'm on the list. They are targeting me in one way. And here they

are targeting Gavin Newsom and his wife another way. Here is Newsom directly addressing what is what is happening. To Donald Trump, who I know is watching because he watches everything, I have a message for you. You can subpoena my records. You can investigate me. You can harass me. Put my name on every and any enemies list you have, but leave my wife and family out of your personal vendetta. I'd like to say something to my wife. These times are not normal. They're not ordinary. I love you, and I'm sorry he's doing this. You have not earned a single one of the indignities that he's trying to inflict on you and our children. And to Donald Trump, this country, this country does not belong to you. It does not belong to your cronies.

And we're going to fight your lawlessness. And we're going to continue to remind the people of this country of your corruption. That same corruption our founders warned us against as we move to celebrate our 250th anniversary. You know, whether you like Gavin Newsom is not relevant. Whether you like me is not relevant when you analyze me being put on a government list, my being put on a government list. Investigating political figures that you don't like, that's bad enough and that's one thing. Going after spouses and family members. And Gavin Newsom, I think correctly, is framing this as part of a broader pattern.

He says Trump is targeting people who criticize him. And now it's going beyond that into the wives of people who criticize him. And Newsom says federal agents have been contacting former employees, family, family, friends, people connected to his orbit in different ways. They're demanding records. They're abusing the grand jury process. These are allegations that he is making. And Newsom's argument is relatively simple. They are not investigating a crime. They are searching for one. Now, if there is evidence of wrongdoing, investigate it. I don't care about party. You know, with the Epstein stuff, there's all these people who go, David, you should be careful about demanding transparent.

because Bill Clinton could be implicated. I don't think he is, but okay, if he's implicated, then there should be consequences. See how different that is? Oh, but what if it pulls in Democrat? So pull them in. If people have committed crimes, they should be investigated. But you don't just get to do fishing expeditions on people you don't like and try to see what you can dig up. By the way, even if you find nothing, you make their lives miserable just through the process of an investigation.

Nobody should be above the law. Gavin Newsom shouldn't be above the law. If news comes a nasty guy, the way Trump says, he shouldn't be above the law. Jennifer Siebel Newsom shouldn't be above the law. Trump shouldn't be above the law. Nobody should. But that's why these situations matter. Because we as the public who are ultimately funding all of this investigatory work through

our taxpayer dollars, we deserve to know whether an investigation started because there was evidence or whether a political target was selected and then they go, let's start digging around. And if we don't find anything, the digging itself is enough to create a problem. If you dig up someone's backyard, even if you don't find anything, you've still dug up their backyard and that's something that now they have to deal with. Now, Gavin Newsom is arguing it's the latter that they put a target on them and then started digging around. Let's take a listen.

Donald Trump is selling the presidency. He's running the largest cash heist in American political history, trading foreign tariff relief for approval of his golf courses, day trading behind the resolute desk, reaping hundreds of millions of dollars in personal profit. And he's doing it openly.

He's doing it on camera. He did it last night on the White House lawn. He's doing it through cryptocurrencies. He's doing it through the receipt of a 400 million dollar private jet from a foreign government that he plans to keep when he leaves office. Through his sons ventures in countries where his own administration is simultaneously making policy.

His personal fortune is skyrocketed by $4 billion since making his return to office. This is the behavior of a regime, not a republic. The White House has become a marketplace, a marketplace for sneakers and coins, watches, cologne, guitars, Bibles, and phones, influence for sale, access for sale. Now, of course, Gavin Newsom is making a political argument here. I think the most significant part of this story is the precedent. Remember what was promised by Donald Trump. Joe Biden's weaponization

of the government, I'm going to end that. There's not going to be any more political weaponization. The government being used against the opponent, of the people in power, we're going to stop that. We're going to drain the swamp. But we've seen critics of Trump, former officials, prosecutors, governors, perceived enemies, podcasters and independent media people like me. Everybody is being put on some list and targeted in some way. Now, if there is legitimate evidence against Gavin Newsome or Jennifer Siebel Newsom, okay, maybe investigators found something and they're going to produce serious findings of wrongdoing. Or maybe they won't. But,

if the standard is investigations should be based on evidence and not politics, then there should be transparency about why this is even going on. And there is no such transparency. When government investigations start looking like revenge operations, everybody should be furious because your taxpayer dollars are being used to fund that. Gavin Newsom is making a bet. He's making a bet that they're not going to find anything and that voters are going to see this, not as the enforcement of the law, but as does.

Donald Trump expanding his enemies list yet again and finding new ways to make people's lives difficult for the only the only reason why being they don't buy into Trump's political bullshit. Because at the end of the day, that's exactly what this is. We don't buy it. So now Gavin Newsom and his wife are being investigated. We're on a list. Lawsuits.

All sorts of weaponization of government is not, forget about continuing on. Trump. Trump started it. There was none of it happening under Joe Biden. It's happening now. Taxpayers. What are you going to do about it? Well, step one is we vote in November. Now, on the bonus show today, we will talk about the Eric Trump UFC DM rigged fight scandal. A bunch of people wrote to me about this, including friends, people unsure whether it's for real. We'll talk about it. There's a challenger with the same name as U.S. Senator Dan Sullivan, who is in who is ineligible to run because of his name according to an official. We'll talk about that and also we will talk about the SpaceX IPO and the first trillionaire, billionaires and

billionaires as Elon Musk. All of that and more on today's bonus show, sign up at join Pacman.com.