The Debaters - 1818: A Good Night’s Sleep & Sandwiches vs. Wraps
Episode Date: February 15, 2024Is nothing more important than a good night’s sleep? Ivan Decker and Jon Steinberg toss and turn this topic on its head. Then, Jan Caruana and Graham Chittenden grill each other when they discuss if... sandwiches are superior to wraps.
Transcript
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Hi there, listeners. Steve Patterson here.
If you're a frequent traveler like I am, you know that traveling's great.
But as a wise young girl with fancy red shoes once said,
there's no place like home.
That's why when I travel, by myself or with my family,
I often book Airbnbs for that homey touch.
Like the one I stayed at in Stratford, Ontario recently,
where I performed a show and took in some Shakespeare.
Though to be clear, I didn't perform Shakespeare. There's no perchance of that happening. I was not meant to be, or not to be.
Anyway, my point is, I like the feeling of home when I'm on the road, and I feel like I'm not
alone in this, especially when I'm traveling with my family, which got me thinking, when we're on
the road, our house could be a home away from home for fellow travelers, too, if we host it on Airbnb.
It just makes sense. Actually, it makes dollars.
And those dollars could help pay for our next family trip.
Your home might be worth more than you think.
Find out how much at Airbnb.ca slash host.
Something to prepend on and on.
This is a CBC podcast.
This podcast is an extended version of The Debaters, which may contain more mature themes.
To stream the radio-friendly version of this episode, download the CBC Listen app or go to cbc.ca slash thedebaters.
And thanks for listening to The CBC.
Hey Canada, we know nothing succeeds like Sussex.
From the home of 24 Sussex Drive in Ottawa, it's The Debaters!
The Debaters, where comedians fight with facts and funny, and this audience picks the winner.
Now here's a man who has an excess of laughs, Steve Batterson!
Hey! Hello, Canada!
Hello, Ottawa! Welcome back to The Debaters.
Always great to be here in our nation's capital, Ottawa,
a town filled with great monuments.
One of them is a structure on the grounds
of the Parliament buildings called the Whispering Wall.
Apparently, when you sit at one end and whisper,
it travels along the curve of the wall to the other side,
where someone can clearly hear what you've said.
They say if you sit on the left side of the Whispering Wall,
you might just hear the secret behind
why Justin Trudeau plans to run for prime minister
until the end of time.
And if you sit on the right,
you'll hear Pierre Poiliev talking to his decorator
about plans for Rideau Hall in all CBC buildings.
Just because it's true doesn't mean it's not funny.
Time now to meet two debaters whose talents are no secret.
This comic discovered that time waits for no one,
so he cancelled his Time magazine subscription.
It's Vancouver's Ivan Decker!
Ivan Decker!
One of our finest coming out to the stage.
Looking confident and ready, as always, taking his place to my left.
Hello. And this comic thinks a lasting impression is best in cement. It's Ottawa's own John Steinberg.
Hometown John, making his way to the podium to my right. Your topic is one that isn't just pillow talk.
A good night's sleep.
Is it the most important thing for our health?
One of the best parts of this gig is that I usually get to fly in the night before and head straight to the hotel,
where I put the Do Not Disturb sign on,
put on my show clothes,
and sleep until just before showtime.
And sleep, I want to say this out of the bottom of my heart,
sleep is especially easy to achieve in downtown Ottawa.
I really mean that.
There's literally no activity between 6 p.m.
and whatever time some of you go to work.
Now for a debate that we would like to put to bed.
So, whereas studies have shown its numerous benefits to our mental and physical health,
be it resolved that nothing is more important than a good night's sleep.
Ivan, you're arguing for this, please.
You have two minutes.
Starting now, Ivan Decker.
Thank you so much, everybody.
Over the past 365 days,
my wife and I have conducted
an intensive sleep deprivation experiment.
That's right.
She had a baby.
I come to this debate
not with only theoretical knowledge.
I've done the field work.
Through this, we have plunged depths of tiredness
that would make a snoozy college kid's bones explode.
I feel like parents should have exclusive rights
to complaining about being tired.
People without kids who say they're tired,
it doesn't even make sense anymore.
A childless person is like, I'm tired.
I'm like, well, go to sleep right now.
Just lie down.
Why would you not?
What's stopping you?
You don't need to keep anything alive.
You can sleep for as long as you want.
You'll wake up to the same world you fell asleep to.
I can't do that.
I can't just go to sleep whenever I want.
I could wake up a felon.
My opponent is gonna tell you
that sleep is not important right now,
and you're gonna believe him.
You know why? Because it's evening.
Nobody cares about sleep right now.
It's the furthest thing from our mind.
The stock of sleep is very low.
Sleep stock goes way up in the morning.
Nothing brings more evidence to the importance of sleep
like a snooze alarm.
That is when you will shave pieces of your life away.
Ten minutes at a time.
First alarm goes off.
I don't need to shower today.
I'll wear deodorant.
Ten minutes later, I don't need breakfast.
Why not be hungry and tired?
That'll be a treat for my co-worker.
Third, I'm going to miss the train. I'll steal a car. That'll be fine.
Fourth alarm, I don't need this job anyway.
I hate everyone that works there.
Just remember this.
Sleep improves your mood, health, emotional stability.
So if you don't want to sleep for yourself, fine.
But sleep for us.
Because when you're tired, you're just awful to be around.
I have no choice but to be awful.
Because I have a baby.
But if you have a chance to be good, why not take it?
Get some sleep for the good of humanity.
Thank you.
Ivan Decker arguing on behalf of sleep.
And I'll be honest, I don't know that I've ever seen an Ottawa audience this passionate about a topic.
Now, here to ask the question, if a good night's sleep is so healthy, why do cats have nine lives when they only nap?
John's gonna run with it. Here's John Steinberg.
It was rock and roll legend Warren Zevin
who invented the term, I'll sleep when I'm dead.
He, of course, is now dead.
Or should I say sleeping?
But you gotta respect somebody that makes a plan and follows through with it.
Now, if the name Warren Zevin doesn't immediately ring a bell for you,
he's best known for the classic song,
Werewolves of London.
Yeah.
Yeah, see, some of you know that one.
That's true.
Well, that's not all.
Also, Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner.
Yeah, couple people.
How about the cult classic, Lawyers, Guns, and Money?
Well, I see I'm getting diminishing returns. But I could stay here for hours and hours,
just listing off increasingly obscure Warren Seven songs.
But I'm told my opponent has somewhere he needs to be.
Yeah, he's one of those people that needs to sleep every single night.
That, to me, is a sign of weakness.
Thank you.
John Steinberg, on behalf of Sleep,
we got ourselves a debate here,
and it's time now for the Bare Knuckle Round.
We're debating whether nothing is more important than a good night's sleep, so rest assured.
If you snooze, you will lose.
I don't want to alarm you,
but if you think you can win this by just sleepwalking through it, well dream on.
Because trust me, this audience will knock turn on you.
So time to wake up now!
So...
So Ivan says that only people with children
are allowed to talk about being tired.
Basically, he's forcing me to kidnap a child......in order to win this debate.
Yeah, I can think of one.
Maybe you could take mine for, like, a bit.
Like...
Give it back.
Or if I need to sleep,
I could just have you list Warren's even facts again.
That was pretty good.
Oh, I got more."
I love it. I think what's great about people
who have never had a baby is they know,
like, when they haven't slept,
they'll tell you how many hours they got.
What a luxury.
You actually know?
It wasn't just a fever dream of screaming and waking up
and walking and lifting and diapers and then trying to sleep again. You actually know? It wasn't just a fever dream of screaming and waking up
and walking and lifting and diapers
and then trying to sleep again?
That's fun. That's pretty cool.
Good for you.
Thank you.
But you know the same experts
that tell us to get eight hours of sleep a night
are the same experts that tell us
we should have two drinks a week.
The math doesn't add up.
Okay. All right.
That's the bare knuckle Round, everybody.
It's time now for the firing line. In my hand, I have a list of questions about a good night's sleep
brought to you by the drowsiest hip-hop star in the world, Z. WebMD.com's list of surprising reasons to get more sleep
includes sharpening your brain,
boosting your mood, and helping you fight what?
John?
Zombies?
Not what I have here, but I'll give you a point.
Ivan Decker.
It helps you fight the people in line ahead of you
at Tim Hortons.
Good answer, too.
The actual answer is germs.
Helps you fight germs.
Harvard Medical School advises to get a good night's sleep,
only use your bed for two activities.
Sleep.
And what else?
Ivan.
Staring at the ceiling, trying to sleep.
Good answer.
Good answer.
One and a half points.
John Steinberg.
Blanket forts.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, the real answer is sex, but Ottawa liked that answer better.
Three points.
Three points, John.
In Johns Hopkins recommendations for new parents trying to get adequate sleep,
parents are advised to feel free to skip what? John. Feeding. In Johns Hopkins recommendations for new parents trying to get adequate sleep,
parents are advised to feel free to skip what?
John.
Feedings.
No.
Childless John.
No, that is not the answer.
Do not skip feedings.
Ivan.
Unwinnable debates.
The answer is skip household chores.
Because Johns Hopkins is a pseudonym for Steve Patterson.
And that's the firing line, everybody.
It is almost time for our Centerpoint Theatre audience here in Ottawa to pick a winner.
But first, here again to tell us it's pointless
to spend your every waking moment trying to sleep,
let's hear one again from John Steinberg.
In my day,
all you needed for a good night's sleep was a small pile of hay
and a pointy stick to keep the bears away.
Now there's an endless number of things you can spend money on.
You got white noise machines,
noise-canceling earbuds.
My Airbnb here even has little cameras
pointed at the bed to watch you sleep.
Yeah, I'm not sure how that helps, but...
They're trying a lot of different things.
That's my point.
You might think you have a great mattress.
Well, how long have you had this great
mattress? Because according
to the experts,
you're supposed to replace your mattress
every seven years.
Your sheets every three years.
Your pillows every two years.
Your pillowcases every 28 minutes. A lot of people don't know that last one. Yeah, I sleep with a big sack of brand new pillowcases next to the bed. My alarm set to go off on the half hour.
Thank you.
John Steinberg,
sponsored by pillowcase manufacturers everywhere.
Now here to put John in an eight-hour sleeper hold,
if he can, let's hear again from Ivan Decker.
Being a parent is like being Batman.
You have to do your regular job all day,
but then at night, instead of sleeping,
you must fight crime.
The crime of dirty diapers and empty bottles.
You see, your body doesn't really need sleep.
You can prop it up with an armature of sugar and caffeine,
but your brain, your brain needs sleep.
Because your body can trick you into thinking it's fine.
You're moving around, you're walking, you're wearing pants.
And then all of a sudden, you cry.
You cry real grown-up tears
at a commercial for soup.
That's not okay.
The premise of Batman makes sense now
because only a severely sleep-deprived person
would be angry enough to dress like a bat
and punch poor people.
Thank you.
Ivan Decker.
All right, audience,
it is up to you to pick a winner.
Center point,
how many of you
were willing to follow Ivan
into his long day's journey
into nighty-night?
Ivan Decker.
All right.
A lot of support for Ivan.
And who agreed with John and thinks 40 Winks stinks?
John Steinberg!
It's close.
I've got to give this one to Ottawa's own John Steinberg, everybody!
Big hand for John Steinberg and Ivan Decker!
You're listening to The Debaters on CBC Radio 1.
Want to be a part of the debating action?
For upcoming tour dates, visit cbc.ca slash the debaters.
Hi there, Steve Patterson here.
You know, I travel a lot for work on my own,
so when I can do a trip where I get to bring my wife Nancy and our daughters along,
I jump at it.
On a recent trip to Ottawa, we booked an Airbnb.
It was a nice home in a nice neighborhood,
and it even had room for our dog Ferris, which was also nice.
And that made me think, hey, maybe our home in Toronto
would be a nice place to stay for some nice people too, since it sits empty while we're away.
And honestly, it would be great if our house started bringing in some extra cash to put towards the next trip.
Because frankly, Ferris keeps screwing up in his job interviews.
Your home might be worth more than you think.
Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host.
My name is Graham Isidore.
I have a progressive eye disease called keratoconus.
Admitting I'm losing my vision has been hard,
but explaining it to other people has been harder.
Lately, I've been trying to talk about it.
Short Sighted is an attempt to explain what vision loss feels like
by exploring how it sounds.
By sharing my story, we get into all the things you don't see
about hidden disabilities.
Short Sighted, from CBC's Personally,
available now.
Are you ready to meet your next pair of debaters?
Yes!
I thought so.
This comic bought a book about fear of abandonment,
but then left it on the bus.
It's Because News' Jan Caruana.
Jan, come on down here.
There she is. Hi, Jan.
Welcome to the show.
Jan, to my left.
Looks ready.
And this comic was ejected from a Las Vegas supermarket
for counting carts.
It's Graham Chittenden, one of our favorites.
Graham Chittenden.
Kid Thunder, they call him.
Here's a topic that we hope will have you salivating.
Sandwiches.
Are they superior to wraps?
There's one person that's excited.
You may not know this, Ottawa,
but the sandwich is named after England's Earl of Sandwich.
It's true.
The Earl was apparently gambling late one night
and didn't want to leave the table,
so he ordered someone to bring him a slice of meat
between two pieces of bread,
and voila, the sandwich was born.
Interestingly, the claim to this invention
was hotly contested by his gambling opponents that evening,
the Count of Monte Cristo,
a man named Ruben,
and a club.
Anyway, sorry, that's the last one.
It's time now for a debate where there's no need to be a gyro.
So, whereas they're an iconic food that has more flavor, fewer carbs, and are easier to assemble, be it resolved, sandwiches are superior to wraps.
Jan, you're arguing for this, please.
You have two minutes.
Starting now, Jan Caruana.
Thank you, Steve.
Thank you.
The argument that sandwiches are superior to wraps is simple and can be illustrated in examples from one's own life.
Imagine a time when you felt trapped in your job, in your relationship, unable to spread your wings and truly be free.
This is what it is to be a wrap. Whether it be tuna salad, prosciutto and bocconcini,
or even the humble PB&J, sandwich toppings were meant
to breathe easy between two slices of bread,
not to be tucked into a wrap like a weary traveler
in a too-tight hotel bed,
aching to kick off the yoke of hospital corners
and the patriarchy?
And let's discuss the wrap itself for a moment.
On its own, it's nothing but an oversized communion wafer.
With half the personality and none of the flavor.
Whereas bread comes in myriad flavors and textures,
unlike the homogeneous wrap,
which expects you to live in a one-size-fits-all world.
Well, let me tell you something, brother.
The world is far too big and beautiful
to be limited by wraps.
I want to experience all she has to offer.
I want to holla from the rooftops.
And I don't care if you think I'm
being too wry. I want to roll with everything life throws at me and eat with wonder. Bread.
Dan Caruana, everybody. Yeah. Well, well, well. First debate, but won't be the last.
Did you hear all those puns, Graham?
Yeah. Someone's gunning for your job.
Puns.
I know where my bread is buttered.
Puns are funny. She's still going.
Now, here to preach to us of the rapture,
let's hear from one of our favorites, Graham Chittenden.
Thank you.
Wraps are pockets of wonderful sustenance,
and sandwiches are stacks of crap.
Yes, sandwiches are easier to assemble.
So?
We take extra time to wrap the things we care about.
You know, newborn babies, gifts for loved ones.
Wraps are folded with careful purpose.
And sandwiches are, by all accounts, slapped together.
Yum!
You know what gets slapped together? Shotgun weddings.
Carnival rides.
CTV sitcoms.
They named burritos after a donkey
for their ability to hold a lot of stuff.
And burritos, like most wraps, can hold sauces,
ground meats, rice, salsas. I've never witnessed a sandwich hold onto its tomato slice past the
first bite. Yes, sandwiches are named for their inventor, John Montague, the Earl of Sandwich,
an English nobleman who, much like his own invention,
was inbred.
And this was centuries after other cultures
had already created, invented the wrap,
the samosa, the shawarma, the burrito,
and then this Englishman ignored history.
No surprise there.
Then, as time progressed,
it became more than just a degenerate gambler's snack.
It became the biggest gamble one would take
when shopping for food at a gas station.
Then came funerals.
Where we served tiny sandwiches
to remind people that there are things worse than death.
They have tried to improve the sandwich,
cutting the crusts off,
removing the top piece of bread,
and then serving them open-faced,
which means that even the purveyors of this doughy nightmare
admit that the only way to improve a sandwich
is to serve less sandwich.
And while I feel like my opponent's argument has been slapped together like a cheese sandwich at a hospital, I hope on this topic we can wrap
things up nicely. Thank you very much. Graham Chittenden. Oh yeah. All right, debaters, it is
time now for the Bare Knuckle Round.
We're debating whether sandwiches are superior to wraps,
so let's hope that you two glutens for punishment
don't repeat a joke.
And if you loaf about and get in a pickle,
you may or may not win.
If you lose, I'll focaccia name instantly.
But if you win, then kebabs your uncle.
Baguette started now.
Graham, you mentioned that we take time to wrap things we care about, like babies and presents, but you know what else gets wrapped, Graham?
Mummies.
Spooky, scary mummies.
Graham, look into my eyes, okay?
I'm haunted by so many things.
I don't need to add lunch to that list.
But look, they wrap those mummies
and they're still kind of fresh.
Isn't that good?
I just feel like we're discussing
two portable forms of food
and that's not really true
because a wrap, you can eat a wrap, you can drive.
If you're eating a sandwich,
you can only drive home to change your pants.
That's the only place...
I disagree.
You talk about sandwiches being messy.
If you've ever gotten to the end of a wrap,
what are you doing?
That thing is shotgun in its guts.
Right onto your crotch, babe.
The thing about wraps is that from other parts of the world,
they're grilled, they're baked, they're deep-fried,
there's texture, there's crunch.
Here in North America, wraps are what?
They're white, they're pasty, they're gummy.
They're the Nicole Kidman of lunches.
Mate?
Fair. But...
I mean, I mean, fair to call them
the Nicole Kidman of lunches
because she was with the craziest man in Hollywood
and what did she do?
She kept it all together.
All right.
That's the Fair Enough Around.
Good work.
Good work, both of you.
We got ourselves a debate.
It is time now for the firing line.
In my hand, I have a list of questions on wraps versus sandwiches
brought to you by a Dr. Hellmans.
Dr. Hellmans.
He's the director of condiments at the Mayo Clinic.
According to Delishably.com,
when making a wrap,
what should you never do?
Jan.
Think, I bet I could do this with my feet.
That's a slow roll.
It's a slow roll, but you got him.
You got him.
Sometimes in Ottawa, they get grossed out first,
but then they get it.
Graham Chittenden.
I think sneeze.
At least you get that thing closed up.
That's a good answer.
You should never start with a cold tortilla
because it will tear or crack.
Just created a bunch of chefs here.
What was the original name of the sandwich chain Subway?
Jan Carwanam.
Smells like the Subway.
They just shortened it, I like that.
Graham.
Food by the foot?
I like that.
Three points.
Food by the foot.
It was Peter's Super Submarines.
Isn't that a Beatles song?
Close.
We all live in Peter's Super Submarines.
Actor Keanu Reeves says,
when you're eating a sandwich...
It's a drag, Dov. What happened?
Jan?
It's a drag when the sandwich drops below 50 miles an hour
and blows up.
Gotta eat the sandwich quickly.
Those that got it, got it.
The others, I will never be able to explain.
Keanu says, it's a drag to have your picture taken by paparazzi.
We would also have accepted
have half of the sandwich stuck in the matrix.
Competitive eater Joey Chestnut holds the record
for the most corned beef sandwiches eaten in 10 minutes,
the most burritos eaten in 10 minutes,
and in 2021, he broke what other world record?
Jen.
Long jump.
Look at that.
That woke up Ottawa.
Incorrect, but three points.
Graham Chittenden.
My guess is most constipated.
Also pretty good.
One and a half points.
Most hot dog eaten in 10 minutes with 76.
76 hot dogs in 10 minutes.
That's the firing line, everybody.
It is almost time for our Centerpoint Theatre audience to vote again, but first
here again to wrap it up with a
rhapsody.
It's here from the conductor
of comedy himself,
Graham Chittenden.
Thank you.
Decades ago, Subway,
formerly Pete's whatever,
unknowingly began the much-deserved
decline of the sandwich.
They gathered the worst group of artists
outside of an improv
troupe
and made
sandwiches using bread that was more
yoga mat than wheat.
Then sold them by
length as though they were 2x4s.
Then in the
year 2000, sandwiched between
a false disaster Y2K
and a real one, 9-11, Subway gave us a true disaster, Jared.
And showed us what sandwiches truly are,
weight loss supplements for sexual predators.
So feel free to cheer for sandwiches in a moment.
But with the modern use of facial recognition technology
used on live audiences today,
I'm not saying your house will get raided.
I just don't know how that works.
So I'll finish by saying what you say
when something is done properly and completely.
That's a wrap.
Yeah. Graham's a wrap.
Yeah.
Graham Chittenden on behalf of the wrap.
Thanks, Graham.
Now, here to tell you that any way you slice it,
the super sandwich successfully saves the day.
Let's hear again from Jan Caruana. In 1762, the fourth Earl of Sandwich changed the game forever.
Since then, we have seen innumerable permutations of the sandwich.
Toppings and breads freewheeling together like the beautiful hippies at Yazgar's farm in 1969.
Man. together like the beautiful hippies at Yazgar's farm in 1969, man, and co-mingling in ways that decency and the law preclude me from discussing in Ottawa.
Conversely, the rap is the missionary position of meals. A dry, boring excursion
where your turkey lies there lifelessly
while salami barely moves on top of her.
Lay back and think of the queen, my friends.
Because a wrap is no fun for anybody.
Sandwiches equal liberation from the tyranny of lunch.
An invitation to grab life with two hands and take a big bite.
A decree to love who you want and eat what you want.
In conclusion, give me bread or make me dead.
Thank you. Jan Caruana, her first debate for us. What a great one. I mean,
this was about sandwiches and this is better than I'm going to say 97% of the political debates I've
ever heard. Audience, it is up to you to vote. By applause, who agreed with Jan that from yeast to west, sandwiches are best?
Jan Caruana.
Welcome to that crowd.
We're behind Jan.
And who answered Graham's roll call
and agreed with his old grain of truth
about raps?
Graham Chittenden.
Wow.
So close.
This is very, very close.
And you know what?
It's a tie.
It's inconclusive.
Sandwiches and wraps.
Have them both.
Big hand for Dan Caruana and Graham Chittenden, everybody.
Well, that's all for this week.
I'm Steve Patterson saying to all you sandwich artists out there,
let me be your canvas.
I'll argue with you again soon, Canada.
Good night!
The Debaters is created by Richard Seid.
This week's episode was produced by Nicole Callender,
Chloe Edbrook, Dean Jenkinson, and Graham Clark.
With continuity by Graham Clark, Diana Francis, and Gary Jones.
Technical production by
James Perella and Conrad Hijazi.
Story editing by Gary Jones.
With special thanks to
Katie Ellen Humphries and David Pride.
Executive producer of CBC Radio Comedy
is Lee Pitts.
And thanks to everyone at the
Meridian Theatres in Ottawa.
For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts. And thanks to everyone at the Meridian Theatres in Ottawa.